This is very good cinema. The mic breaking symbolizes the confusion of saying "You can't rank these tiers objectively" in a video about about exactly that. The mic returning aligns with the viewer realizing in their head that this is just your personal opinion and fun when playing. Lovely film
I was talking with Ryan gosling about this same thing and he said that gen 9 is actually the best ou. Naturally I questioned his opinion and he just said he liked using chilly reception glowking into specs kyurem because it just beat the whole meta game.
To me, while I like almost every gen for its own reasons, I think the game on a mechanical level really peaked in gen 4. The way I see the development of the first 4 generations of the game is that, with every new iteration, Gamefreak looked at the core issues with the previous generations and made big mechanical changes to try to solve some of them. Gen 1 had a lot of type imbalances, so Gen 2 added steel and dark. Gen 1 special stat was highly broken, so in Gen 2 it was split into special attack and defense. Defensive pokemon without inherent recovery moves were too easily worn down, so they added held items and leftovers. Gen 3 added abilities, attempting to correct the issue of pokemon being solely valued for their base stats and movepools, and a bunch more held items to add even more strategic variety and levers they could use to balance different pokemon. Gen 4 had the physical/special split, fixing a lot of issues with pokemon whose stats didn't match their typing and letting them finally use strong STAB attacks. Gen 5 is the point where things started to change. From this point on, the changes made feel less like they're attempting to address any mechanical issues and make the game as balanced as possible, and more like they're just throwing new things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Considering most of the new-gen mechanics from now on will be deleted in future generations, the game get more and more volatile and the power creep starts to become very oppressive. It's not that the game is necessarily worse or less fun to play, but up until Gen5 Pokemon felt like a game of chess. You know what every piece does, there are a lot of moves that can be made in any given position and nothing feels like it really breaks the game. After Gen5 it's like taking the basic, highly streamlined ruleset of chess and every few years saying "Okay, new rule, from now on every 3rd pawn move you can teleport your pawn anywhere on the board". The basic rules are still the same, but now you have to contend with this one new mechanic that warps the entire game around it. And instead of refining that new mechanic over future generations the way the game had been developed in the past, they're just going to throw that rule out and the next time it will be "Now instead of the pawn teleport, your king can swap places with any of your pieces once per game, even in checkmate".
My first Pokémon game was Pokémon Red in 1999. I started playing competitive Pokémon with Gen 3. I still remember to this day what happened between Gen 3 and Gen 4, then Gen 4 and Gen 5, and upwards, up to this day. You made such a good summary of what happened between each Gen from 1 to 4. I would say my three favorite metagames are Gen 3, Gen 4, and Gen 6.
The reality of the tier is that Boots is not nearly as common as it was when it was current gen. Stall is running maybe 2 HDB, and a lot of BO teams maybe use it for Zapdos (which is easy Knock Off bait) and lots of the Pokemon are already not that weak to hazards. Urshifu, Specs Pult, CB or Lorb Weavile (which are more common nowadays), Lefties Heatran, Kartana, Lele, etc. etc. etc. Knock Off basically just means the dynamic is an extra layer to the hazard metagame. Getting Knocks on targets is just a part of the gen, and IMO fairly skill based. Using it on Offensive threats has the risk of not making enough progress. Pult wearing Boots soumds broken and all, but then its 40% Shadow Balls (with a chance of SpDef drop to force more progress) becomes a 25ish% At that point it just becomes another momentum maker, but not even that good of one
I’m not surprised. It’s not that boots are broken in any way, but that, by having them around, Knockoff is even more spammable than normal. Heavy Booty Doots is a held item that only does stuff when not in combat, so Knockoff now has targets that like having an item and might need it to function, but don’t pose any sort of extra offensive threat to stop it or have been slowly gaining value over the course of the game. The distribution of good Knockoff Pokemon ballooned in Gen 8, and the best Mon in the format is a Pokemon especially vulnerable to Knock Off, Boots or not. It makes games slightly slower. Cry me a river
This isn’t really related to the topic but would you ever consider making a “Director’s Cut” version of False Swipe videos? Or even just a companion piece? I’d love to hear the stuff you had to cut for time or length
@@moneyinmadrid yeah i dont remember how long they've been working together but at least for all recent videos he's credited as the writer in the vid description
@@Nuvizzle thanks for the info. I stopped watching the videos because I don't like the 3D Pokemon Arena footage lmao, I'll check out a newer vid from them
The ordering was surprising in some places and expected in others. It was good that you reiterated throughout the guiding philosophy behind what you want from a metagame, which (could) lend cohesion to the list and logic behind the placements. However, I do think you struggled to really justify your stance toward Gen 3 OU in particular in a way that made sense (to me at least). For one, your "issue" had more to do with the way some people are trying to play, rather than the tier itself; you also had surprisingly little to explicitly praise about it despite putting it at #2---which I wasn't expecting anyway since you hardly ever, although I was certain you'd have ranked Gen 2 higher for that reason. A chauvinist might say Gen 3 OU needs no grand praise because its greatness is abundantly obvious to anyone ("self-evident" in your words). But of course, anyone that engaged with it would be aware of its shortcomings. Therefore, it really does make sense to try to actually hone in on what makes the metagame special instead of defaulting solely to its "balance" (which is of course secretly something of a misconception). Now no doubt it's difficult to speak about the tier in all its nuance and complexity, especially when one wants to be careful to address mainstream notions they believe are inaccurate about it, and even more so when one's perceived truth may reflect negatively upon the tier and cause others to think less of it. But I do think it's a worthwhile undertaking all the same, and would be a valuable video for you to make. A deep dive into the metagame itself, in both a Platonic sense as well as specifically rooted in whatever we may consider to be its contemporary era, for the purpose of showing how despite its greatness it has serious flaws, and how despite those flaws it remains exceptional. This may or may not involve other tiers in the generation or other OU's in other generations as contrast, but the point would be to highlight how these balances and counterbalances weigh out to elevate it to the status of exemplar competitive Pokemon metagame. An ongoing poll in ROA has it as the clear favorite OU of respondents (Gen4 second). It's easy to understand how your fondness for DPP won out, but your recent track record of videos (in terms of attention given and elaborations dedicated) had seriously given me the impression that GSC and maybe other gens were more favored by you at this point than ADV.
I disagree about boots. I think rocks is just too punishing to pokemon just based on certain typing. Like, do bug and ice types really need more working against them? I think your opinion is a little biased because of what Volcarona does in metas you'd otherwise have enjoyed more. The pivoting you like wouldn't really be there otherwise either because pokemon like scizor and lando would be taking too much damage. Pokemon like Zapdos wouldn't really be able to do its thing as a bulky, flying pivot. Boots adds more diversity rather than having certain pokemon being totally screwed because someone put rocks down early. That's my thought on it anyway.
The thing about that, though, is that boots aren't exclusive to the pokemon that need it to be viable. There are plenty of good pokemon who are made BETTER with boots, which is where the issue comes in. It doesn't really level the playing field much, because it's close to a totally symmetrical boost.
I agree that rocks are too punishing for certain types. However, for most mons that are neutral or resistant to rocks, it is just an unhealthy item. Instead of totally negating the damage, I think it would have been better to just *reduce* the damage to 1/8 or at least 1/16. Boots are good for mons that have been ruined just by their rock weakness alone, but besides that, I dislike them. Constant switching needs a way to get punished. Boots remove the only reliable counterplay
@otozinclus3593 I'm not so sure about that. I think there's counter play via knock off and double switching to take the momentum back and setup sweepers who can seal the game if an opponent is just trying to pivot around without advancing their own board. Besides, I don't think clicking rocks should necessarily be COUNTER play. I don't think it's healthy for a move to counter a pokemon ego hasn't even hit the field or a strategy with one attack you can just throw out at the beginning of the battle.
The issue is gen 23 OU is ruled by arceus-complete forme which combines the legend plate with a bst buff. Way too versatile and strong but that kinda makes the tier what it is so I'm conflicted
@@Gold_Gamer_100there are plenty of resources and chatrooms where you can get infinite teams and help. That would be way more efficient to ask there instead of a UA-cam comment section
@@Gold_Gamer_100 I find the six of Lando, zapdos, lele, dragapult, urshifu and melmetal a really good and solid team archetype that is also not that hard to pilot for someone learning the tier
i think that SV's boots struggle is made even worse by the complete absense of spinners and defoggers. in current OU, theres only one consistent spinner and no defoggers, since corviknight never runs it now
Corviknight actually runs it about 50% of the time on high ladder, so there is a viable defogger. You just u-turn when ghold comes in and switch something that can threaten it. But I do agree, that's the core reason why hazards are the way they are in SV, the inbalance between setters and removers.
@@naapurihei Both can be a problem at the same time. Gholdengo is a Pokemon that can go into just about any team that wants offensive momentum, but especially HO, and is also probably the greatest spin block of all time. It’s bad there’s no hazard removal, and it’s bad that there’s a Pokemon handcrafted to make Hazard Stack the predominant strategy.
RBY is the best tier, because it's the one I'm nostalgic for, therefore invalidating any other arguments that could be made, and those who disagree are stupid.
Proly not the expected outcome, but next time i give myself time for some competitive Pokémon I'm definitely trying gen 8 ou. Looking at the games and teams boots don't even seem that relevant, and the pacing seems so chill. Now, best tiers are those where flygon is tournament viable (the flygon theorem), but that means gen3 i already play, gen 4 which i find extremely unwelcoming to new players, or texting real people trying to get people to play low tiers. Yikes.
Imagine a world where mega flygon was a thing and thus Gen 6 was good (I do kinda agree on the flygon theorem given that last Gen I played ru and adv is awesome)
@@Dragostorm21 right!? Flygon has such neat characteristics, any tier where his offensive and defensive profile is valuable is bound to have a nice balance.
regarding adv teams that matchup fish, what do u think about vapicuno's philosophy that in a bo3/bo5 a team that does well in most matchups but is dog in a few matchups is fine?
How would you recommend getting good at DPP? Coming from ADV and GSC, I like the faster flow a lot while not being overbearing, but it is the tier I’ve struggled to learn the most because of things like learning to consistently play around hax (Jirachi) and figuring out lasts
In defence of boots, stealth rock made certain types just unviable because they would lose half or a quarter of their HP to rocks, meaning they only get to hit the field once or not at all. If it was like spikes where ot deals constant damage to all types it wouuld be better, also stealth rock weak pokemon have to sacrifice an item in order to not take damage which is quite a big sacrifice and not that big of a deal when you compare it to leftovers which just heals off the damage so it pretty much has an even stronger effect on non stealth rock weak pokemon, such as slowking so correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't slowking be just as unkillable with leftovers? Also specifically in gen 8 heavy duty boots is balanced by how common knock off is, and that provides a consistent way to make progress against defence that relies on heavy duty boots
@@yourdaganI'm assuming that he was referencing BKC's point about "lost in the sauce" or extreme matchup fishing. Where you make a team and pray to God for Skarm and or the absence of other prominent OU Pokemon
As someone who’s played Pokémon his whole life just now getting into DPP OU do you have one single tip that would help me starting out? Also, your vids are helping me a lot as a new player. Keep it up 👍
watch high level tour games, try to understand why plays were made and if they were good or not, analyze the teams, and practice! (ladder, tours in the ruins of alph showdown room, sign up for forum tours, join the dpp discord)
I'd love to see you do a video on what your "perfect" Pokemon-style game would be from a mechanical point of view. Smogon Singles metagames are balanced around however Nintendo decides the mechanics should work, it would be interesting to see a Pokemon-style game purely based around competitive gameplay without the RPG aspects.
It would be a lot easier to get into GSC if the ladder wasn't basically dead. But that requires a lot more players. But it would be easier to get more players if the ladder wasn't dead. Truly a catch-22 scenario for our poor GSC OU metagame
GSC (i.e. all its tiers) has an extreme publicity issue that the playerbase is not entirely willing to fix. I can understand its players' frustrations with the metagame being misrepresented, but they cause frustrations in turn by pretending peoples' misconceptions came out of nowhere and not their own experiences with the tier. Saying one's negative experiences and consequent viewpoint is invalid is insulting and just turns people off from the metagame still.
I would rather have 1 game per hour against a real opponent than 5 games per hour against little Timmy who just sprinted home from middle school to try his epic Venusaur lead. There are fewer than 10 good GSC players
I haven't watched the video yet, but I've been watching your vids for ~4 years and feel like I have a pretty good idea of your preferences. Bottom 3 generations are going to be gen 9, 8, and 7 (perhaps gen 5 just based on how unbalanced it is?). Top 3 are going to be gens 4, 3, and tossup between gen 6 and 2 Edit: This also happens to be how detailed each generation tends to be on FSG vids.
i thought hard on it and made my own and it is crazy how heavily gen 4 has been moving up my list, i have it ranked above RBY in 5th which says a lot because i really didnt like it after latias just dropped. having played a lot of gen 9 has made me appreciate it more and spikes feel better balanced than where they are in BW right now. i still don't think anything beats out GSC and ADV for me, just such incredible tiers
I want to say 100% I think gen 9 is a huge work in progress with many things that still need to go, even with Volc gone this tier still feels way too offensively broken to me but I think with a few more cuts (Roaring Moon and Kyurem especially) this tier could be completely fine and one of my favorites
32:20 RBY is many things, but there is objectively not variety. 3 mons have over 94% tournament usage! Another is 84, and another is 65! So basically, the only variety is the last slot. Which is what, a choice between 5 mons? That’s honestly my main gripe with RBY. It’s just boring to play day in and day out-it feels more like chess than mons.
By having three pokemon who excel guaranteed in their roles, it opens versatility for the remaining slots. I think it actually promotes variety, to a degree.
@@WarioLandIV gotta agree to disagree. Any time you have a mandatory mon, variety is stunted to an extent. And if there are 4? How is that variety? You’re seeing the same team structure literally every game
8:35 I brought it up as a joke in the other video, but we do remember Mega Alakazam exists, right? 55/50/65/175/105/150??? Not everything’s about base stats, but still. Mega Charizard is an outlier if anything. The average Mega mostly just pumps up an attack stat and speed.
Thats partly because of what Zam have always been though. A lot of megas didnt stray too far from going with 30/20 spread around extra stats. Zam is actually only slightly over the norm in that case. You have Blastoise getting overarching stats boost and then its SPA forced to be the highest so it got 50. Heracross gets whole ass 60 on attack Megagross and Megamence gets 10 on PATK and while Megagross did pump speed its entirely to put it right at the common 110 marks(it ended up with flat 110-120 on their non Physical Stats). Megamence get 50 Defense to achieve similar style of stats as Megagross And tbf they also tend to generally keep the ratio of their old stats and a lot of pre Mega Mons did have that massive of a gap between their offense and their non offense
If you want a truly min-max mega, look no further than Mega Beedrill. Not only it pumped all it's point to attack and speed, it SUCKED UP 30 points from Sp atk, making it an effective 130 buff to it's stats, then they slapped one of the most generically strong offensive abilities to it. But then again, it's f#$@ing Beedrill we are talking about, it needed all the help it could get and even then it didn't get to be OU.
*Final ranking from WORST (top) to BEST (bottom):* ... _9th:_ GEN 9 OU _8th:_ GEN 8 OU _7th:_ GEN 5 OU ... _6th:_ GEN 7 OU _5th:_ GEN 1 OU _4th:_ GEN 6 OU ... _3rd:_ GEN 2 OU _2nd:_ GEN 3 OU _1st:_ GEN 4 OU
maybe it’s cause im a newer gen player but it’s utterly insane how you can go from showing the most colorful, diverse, unpredictable tier in gen 7 to then showing us gen 1 8-bit sprites where the most innovative meta shift is sing chansey. i am still waiting to be convinced on how gen 7 is not the best tier along with DPP.
I can't speak to Gen 7 as I have never seriously followed it and only seen glimpses of what it's like. Gen 1 OU's apparent lack of diversity is not actually enforced, in the sense of, you do not need to run all the things people consider to be the best or most viable. It is possible to run a mon like Sandslash, way in the lowest tier placements, perfectly fine in Gen 1 OU. Just because people aren't using certain things doesn't mean the potential isn't there. This is the way in which Gen 1 OU is similar to Gen 3 OU, where even a mon like Butterfree has been proven capable of pulling its weight even if most people don't bother with it. Ultimately, it's a playerbase issue, not the metagame issue. Similar to BKC's complaints in the Gen 3 section here.
tbh i thikn gen 9 gets bottom spot simply because it hasn't been locked and is subject to change. a metagame that is still settling down would be like rating a meta like gen5 ou before any excadrill restrictions or Deo s being legal
I've been toying with the idea of creating the "perfect" meta. A hybrid of all the best gens. Taking good things like nerfing Scald and recovery moves PP that gen 9 did right, while leaving out all the stupid decisions. The power level would be ideally be between Gen 7 and Gen 8. Possibly an item clause- perhaps bring back Megas but not Z-moves- stuff like that. Do you think something like that would be possible, and would you be interested in something like that?
In the Gen 3 segment, you touch a lot on Match up fishing. My question is: if a tier is balanced and promotes the more skilled player winning, then doesn’t that mean that if you are playing against a player who is equal or better then you, then the match up essentially determines the win and you have to rely on crazy hax to flip the script?
Talking about gen 1 rng being manageable while players frantically swap between para spam and rest spam. All the while praying for a full para. I hate coin flips. I hope one day we look back on freeze at least as a silly footnote in pokemon. I like gen 1, but it is pretty RNG based. Thats any gen though.
RBY OU has always felt like drawing blood from a stone in terms of interesting things to do. Gens 4 and onwards will probably look drastically different in 20 years; RBY really doesnt
I understand that this is mostly a preference ranking, but it's kind of insane to me that you would consider Gen 8 the worst generation, and the justification isn't really coherent with what you said in the beginning of the video. It's clearly so much more competitively balanced than 1, 5, 6 and 7. It's ok to value other things more than balance and competitiveness (like a subjective dislike of boots for example), but the idea that they are comparable in that regard and the only thing differentiating them is preference is ridiculous
After one minute of video, here is my prediction : 1- Gen 3 2- Gen 4 3- Gen 6 4- Gen 2 5- Gen 8 6- Gen 1 7- Gen 7 8- Gen 5 Gen 1 and 7 as well as Gen 2 and 6 are my closest calls to being swapped, and I have no idea where he’s going to put Gen 9 because it’s clearly unfinished as of now
Add-on : I really thought he would value Gen 8 more but after the Boots and switch moves rant it’s not that surprising that it’s so low I guess Also Pursuit
ORAS is a meta that would really enjoy Boots bc with Mega and Z crystals its unlikely you run wanna mono boots but those same Mega and Z also provide the balance to knock off.
While gen 9 is one of my least favorite metagames, my favorite play to make across all the generations is a correct tera prediction. Nothing as satisfying imo
naah without sleep the lead meta would be degen it would probably consist of only the parafolder who also spread it, and mainly chansey. jynx and gengar will join jolt, slowbro and the uubl mons as not being really viable. sleep is the best tool to gut the formidable chansey and snorlax and seriously one good sleep is not that easy to place and when it's done the opponent still has a chance in this meta. In UU it's hard to check all the threat so it can really get you
Instead of ranking the tiers I will rank my favorite staple Pokemon in each tier. Gen 1: Exeggutor Gen 2: Forretress Gen 3: Charizard Gen 4: Scizor Gen 5: Mamoswine Gen 6: Mega Manectric Gen 7: Landorus T Gen 8: Volcarona Gen 9: Dragonite
gen 1: Lax gen 2: Lax/zapdos gen 3: ttar/zapdos gen 4: ttar gen 5: ttar gen 6: lando T (f gliscor users) gen 7: lando T gen 8 and gen 9: I don't playthose
Gen 9- stall isnt a issue and skill is the only thing which decides who should win a match and the most amount of variety in mons in our as no pokemon has more that 30 percent use and tera is by far the best mechanic where skill matters a lot makes it by far the no 1 for me If bro never played it he should not dare to say anything and put it at bottom which is dumb bro just knows how to play a game with good rng dont know how to play a skill game and just being the stupidest type person to put it at last i know he will delete this comment but genuine,y putting gen 9 at last is bad and automatically makes this tier list the worst in my opinion just bad and let him play game mod like gen 3 and 4 where everything depends on who gets more lucky with pokemon matchup and thats the best game for people like them
Did you just argue that a pokémon game had almost no rng?? In the generation with Tera no less (tera does have skill involved, but sometimes it is almost a coin flip) (besides, Gen 9 has a lot to hate, notably no pursuit, boots existing, insane minmaxed mons and garbage hazard control) There are also things to like, but don't act like Gen 9 is perfect or that Gen 9 has little to no rng
46:20 My mom texted me just before this and I thought "Oh I'll answer later". You then proceeded to berate me for my decision. Unsubscribed for being man :(
Hard disagree on sv, it is in fact the most skill-rewarding gen of all time. Tera basically added an emergency panic button for the player on the back foot to give the better builder/player an out even vs the cheesiest of cheese, effectively expanding the roster beyond 6 mons and 4 moves. Any argument that tera bolsters the offensive proponent and makes broken shit more broken is countered by the fact that a defensive flip more often than not undoes the offensive tera. When one gets baited and loses the tera game then loses to the opponent’s tera sweeper, it is actually a component of getting outplayed. Sv has by far the most options in terms of mons, items, moves, spreads, and teras, and overwhelmingly rewards the more skillful player. Sure, on the surface level the average joe may get swept more easily than past gens by some broken shit w a broken tera, but at the pinnacle of this tier the best of the best almost always outbuild and outplay simply because they are better at utilizing the greater-than-ever expanse of tools at their disposal. Also factoring in crit nerf and stall nerf, the strats that pray for longer games and the opportunity to accumulate small mistakes/ hax chance like wave spam and status spam defensive shit such as those in ss,sm,dpp are no longer unpunished. When judging a tier, it is easy to see if it rewards skill or rewards sitting behind some do-nothing stalwarts and pray for opponents to slowly get chipped away by rng chance, the most atrocious of which is ss. SV has a combination of instant gratification button in choiced hits and booster setup, but also the tools to outlast in 4 whole viable unaware mons and salt which punishes everything. This is the tier in which doing nothing is punished the most, and isn’t the entire goal of this game to go out and WIN the game rather than pray your opponent LOSES it before you shit the bed? In my opinion SV is the pinnacle of skill and SS is the epitome of dogshit. I would rank SV first and, in no particular order, rby/gsc/adv/bw/oras/sm in the next block, then dpp as second worst, and finally SS the worst tier of all time. Thank you for tuning in to my Ted talk
I think Tera Reveal should have been the compromise to make everyone happy (I never supported a ban). I honestly adore a lot of the foundations of Gen 9, to the point I like it way more than the other nu-gens. But the Smogon council has removed so much of its identity from their tiers (specifically OU) over the course of the game's lifespan that I don't take it seriously at all anymore. Before that, I totally liked it way more than Gen8OU. I just got into VGC with Regulation G not even a week ago and this is the most fun I've had with a current gen in years. I think GameFreak somehow ended up laying the foundation this gen for metagames that just hit all the right spots, for me personally.
Defensive tera only hard flips a poor offensive mu where the opponents whole team is walled. Otherwise, you just sunk your tera into defensively checking 1 mon, possibly lose the ability to check whatever mon(s) the tera'd mon was checking before AND your offensive threats don't have tera...
@@yourdagan tera reveal only is a big deal in doubles cuz it doubles randomness and 5050 factor whereas in ou its a pseudo non-preview mechanic akin to an upgraded dpp. tera knowledge is just like the old metas' knowledge factor, where you have to read their last mon based on team structure ---- in tera's case, you play to bait/deduce the opponent tera (if a pult is in vs kyurem, they often uturn to scout tera fairy). What did the council remove exactly? current ou enjoys a plethora of options and the bans were atrocious monsters like sneasler and ursaluna-bm, or straight up ubers like chiyu and chienpao. Did the shed tail ban really remove ou's identity? I feel like this is the most balanced meta in a few years, and I would need to see a more specific argument on what makes the meta lack identity.
Gen 2 OU is wild, only gen they allow a straight-up ubers mon in, and its not even a discussion. If lax is okay, likes of Ho-oh and celebi could be there too.
If I had to choose off of viewing experience: Gen 9 Gen 8 Gen 4 Gen 3 Gen 5 Gen 2 Gen 6 Gen 1 Gen 7 Gen 7 is so boring to watch. Lando leads 50% of the time and colt switch u turn everywhere and boring tapus, tran, pex, and clef. Yawn. But on my list, where I say I start to become “indifferent” (and not bored) is Gen 2, and then everything below that is just “yawn”
@@gligurr lmaoo only people that dont play the tier hate gen 8, always talking about being too "stally" when its more offense-centric than gen 7 in modern times. im sure your opinion of ss is entirely based on very early ss metas (which tbf sucked), because if you played the tier nowadays you'd know it's fun asf
lmao the mic breaks at 5 seconds...but it's fixed at 23 seconds! #cinema
This is very good cinema. The mic breaking symbolizes the confusion of saying "You can't rank these tiers objectively" in a video about about exactly that. The mic returning aligns with the viewer realizing in their head that this is just your personal opinion and fun when playing. Lovely film
Very avant garde. You're a visionary.
The reason it breaks is because it "sounds controversial" and you really had to emphasize it
When I win a battle in that gen that gen is the best and when I lose a game in that gen it’s the worst
5 seconds into the video and the Mics broken, this is why we love you BKC
Soyjak comment, check.
@@Individuo01347you might need to go outside
@@cowboyoctopus2738omg we both have cow usernames 🐮🐄
@@cowgirltheworldomg hiiiii
BKC getting waterboarded immediately and just continues with the video what a legend ❤
1:03 "grain of salt" garganacl comes in
truly perfect timing
consistently impressed by bkc’s ability to have a job
I was talking with Ryan gosling about this same thing and he said that gen 9 is actually the best ou. Naturally I questioned his opinion and he just said he liked using chilly reception glowking into specs kyurem because it just beat the whole meta game.
Say that to my AV mammo 😎
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Mr AV Mamo, you take over 50% from Draco meteor. With no recovery that means you only switch in once
Im on Boots Kyurem so im cooked
its a multi-generational jamboree, folks. this is insane.
superb use of the word jamboree
It was his dream to gather all the generations together for one big jamboree
Every generation has its jamboree.
Jimothy's alt account
okay jimothy cool
you know, i’ve always thought - and often discussed with close associates and friends - ranking generations of ou
I’ve tried to but my poker-based discord is NOT having it
To me, while I like almost every gen for its own reasons, I think the game on a mechanical level really peaked in gen 4. The way I see the development of the first 4 generations of the game is that, with every new iteration, Gamefreak looked at the core issues with the previous generations and made big mechanical changes to try to solve some of them.
Gen 1 had a lot of type imbalances, so Gen 2 added steel and dark. Gen 1 special stat was highly broken, so in Gen 2 it was split into special attack and defense. Defensive pokemon without inherent recovery moves were too easily worn down, so they added held items and leftovers. Gen 3 added abilities, attempting to correct the issue of pokemon being solely valued for their base stats and movepools, and a bunch more held items to add even more strategic variety and levers they could use to balance different pokemon. Gen 4 had the physical/special split, fixing a lot of issues with pokemon whose stats didn't match their typing and letting them finally use strong STAB attacks.
Gen 5 is the point where things started to change. From this point on, the changes made feel less like they're attempting to address any mechanical issues and make the game as balanced as possible, and more like they're just throwing new things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Considering most of the new-gen mechanics from now on will be deleted in future generations, the game get more and more volatile and the power creep starts to become very oppressive.
It's not that the game is necessarily worse or less fun to play, but up until Gen5 Pokemon felt like a game of chess. You know what every piece does, there are a lot of moves that can be made in any given position and nothing feels like it really breaks the game. After Gen5 it's like taking the basic, highly streamlined ruleset of chess and every few years saying "Okay, new rule, from now on every 3rd pawn move you can teleport your pawn anywhere on the board". The basic rules are still the same, but now you have to contend with this one new mechanic that warps the entire game around it. And instead of refining that new mechanic over future generations the way the game had been developed in the past, they're just going to throw that rule out and the next time it will be "Now instead of the pawn teleport, your king can swap places with any of your pieces once per game, even in checkmate".
My first Pokémon game was Pokémon Red in 1999. I started playing competitive Pokémon with Gen 3. I still remember to this day what happened between Gen 3 and Gen 4, then Gen 4 and Gen 5, and upwards, up to this day. You made such a good summary of what happened between each Gen from 1 to 4. I would say my three favorite metagames are Gen 3, Gen 4, and Gen 6.
cant wait for a 1 hour video in which BKC ranks OU Generations by average game length
Btw the SWSH RoA thread has basically.unanimously agreed that the ongoing "SS without boots" tour is basically the same but slightly worse lmao
The reality of the tier is that Boots is not nearly as common as it was when it was current gen. Stall is running maybe 2 HDB, and a lot of BO teams maybe use it for Zapdos (which is easy Knock Off bait) and lots of the Pokemon are already not that weak to hazards. Urshifu, Specs Pult, CB or Lorb Weavile (which are more common nowadays), Lefties Heatran, Kartana, Lele, etc. etc. etc.
Knock Off basically just means the dynamic is an extra layer to the hazard metagame. Getting Knocks on targets is just a part of the gen, and IMO fairly skill based.
Using it on Offensive threats has the risk of not making enough progress. Pult wearing Boots soumds broken and all, but then its 40% Shadow Balls (with a chance of SpDef drop to force more progress) becomes a 25ish%
At that point it just becomes another momentum maker, but not even that good of one
time for item clause
@@internetguy7319 great posts! Sums up most of what I wanted to say about BKC's dislike of the item in generation 8.
I’m not surprised. It’s not that boots are broken in any way, but that, by having them around, Knockoff is even more spammable than normal. Heavy Booty Doots is a held item that only does stuff when not in combat, so Knockoff now has targets that like having an item and might need it to function, but don’t pose any sort of extra offensive threat to stop it or have been slowly gaining value over the course of the game. The distribution of good Knockoff Pokemon ballooned in Gen 8, and the best Mon in the format is a Pokemon especially vulnerable to Knock Off, Boots or not.
It makes games slightly slower. Cry me a river
There are no bad generations, only bad metas. We haven't smacked some of them enough.
This isn’t really related to the topic but would you ever consider making a “Director’s Cut” version of False Swipe videos? Or even just a companion piece? I’d love to hear the stuff you had to cut for time or length
does he write those videos?
@@moneyinmadrid yeah i dont remember how long they've been working together but at least for all recent videos he's credited as the writer in the vid description
@@Nuvizzle thanks for the info. I stopped watching the videos because I don't like the 3D Pokemon Arena footage lmao, I'll check out a newer vid from them
@@moneyinmadrid you don’t?
The ordering was surprising in some places and expected in others. It was good that you reiterated throughout the guiding philosophy behind what you want from a metagame, which (could) lend cohesion to the list and logic behind the placements.
However, I do think you struggled to really justify your stance toward Gen 3 OU in particular in a way that made sense (to me at least). For one, your "issue" had more to do with the way some people are trying to play, rather than the tier itself; you also had surprisingly little to explicitly praise about it despite putting it at #2---which I wasn't expecting anyway since you hardly ever, although I was certain you'd have ranked Gen 2 higher for that reason.
A chauvinist might say Gen 3 OU needs no grand praise because its greatness is abundantly obvious to anyone ("self-evident" in your words). But of course, anyone that engaged with it would be aware of its shortcomings. Therefore, it really does make sense to try to actually hone in on what makes the metagame special instead of defaulting solely to its "balance" (which is of course secretly something of a misconception).
Now no doubt it's difficult to speak about the tier in all its nuance and complexity, especially when one wants to be careful to address mainstream notions they believe are inaccurate about it, and even more so when one's perceived truth may reflect negatively upon the tier and cause others to think less of it.
But I do think it's a worthwhile undertaking all the same, and would be a valuable video for you to make. A deep dive into the metagame itself, in both a Platonic sense as well as specifically rooted in whatever we may consider to be its contemporary era, for the purpose of showing how despite its greatness it has serious flaws, and how despite those flaws it remains exceptional. This may or may not involve other tiers in the generation or other OU's in other generations as contrast, but the point would be to highlight how these balances and counterbalances weigh out to elevate it to the status of exemplar competitive Pokemon metagame. An ongoing poll in ROA has it as the clear favorite OU of respondents (Gen4 second).
It's easy to understand how your fondness for DPP won out, but your recent track record of videos (in terms of attention given and elaborations dedicated) had seriously given me the impression that GSC and maybe other gens were more favored by you at this point than ADV.
“Every generation has a fundamental to teach and take into others.” - A poorly remembered piece of advice from dice.
Always amused with your akshually impression.
I disagree about boots. I think rocks is just too punishing to pokemon just based on certain typing. Like, do bug and ice types really need more working against them? I think your opinion is a little biased because of what Volcarona does in metas you'd otherwise have enjoyed more. The pivoting you like wouldn't really be there otherwise either because pokemon like scizor and lando would be taking too much damage. Pokemon like Zapdos wouldn't really be able to do its thing as a bulky, flying pivot. Boots adds more diversity rather than having certain pokemon being totally screwed because someone put rocks down early.
That's my thought on it anyway.
The thing about that, though, is that boots aren't exclusive to the pokemon that need it to be viable. There are plenty of good pokemon who are made BETTER with boots, which is where the issue comes in. It doesn't really level the playing field much, because it's close to a totally symmetrical boost.
I agree that rocks are too punishing for certain types. However, for most mons that are neutral or resistant to rocks, it is just an unhealthy item.
Instead of totally negating the damage, I think it would have been better to just *reduce* the damage to 1/8 or at least 1/16.
Boots are good for mons that have been ruined just by their rock weakness alone, but besides that, I dislike them.
Constant switching needs a way to get punished. Boots remove the only reliable counterplay
@otozinclus3593 I'm not so sure about that. I think there's counter play via knock off and double switching to take the momentum back and setup sweepers who can seal the game if an opponent is just trying to pivot around without advancing their own board. Besides, I don't think clicking rocks should necessarily be COUNTER play. I don't think it's healthy for a move to counter a pokemon ego hasn't even hit the field or a strategy with one attack you can just throw out at the beginning of the battle.
Your perspective on gen 17 is interesting, but I still think gen 23 is my favorite ou meta personally
Still a great video though❤
Based Knower
The issue is gen 23 OU is ruled by arceus-complete forme which combines the legend plate with a bst buff. Way too versatile and strong but that kinda makes the tier what it is so I'm conflicted
ive been trying to get into SS OU recently, and its honestly kind of fun for me
Its really good lol
Would it be too much to ask you for your current team? Trying to learn the gen myself
@@Gold_Gamer_100there are plenty of resources and chatrooms where you can get infinite teams and help. That would be way more efficient to ask there instead of a UA-cam comment section
@@Gold_Gamer_100 I find the six of Lando, zapdos, lele, dragapult, urshifu and melmetal a really good and solid team archetype that is also not that hard to pilot for someone learning the tier
@@sla7889 This sounds like a nice jumping off point. Thanks for the tip
i think that SV's boots struggle is made even worse by the complete absense of spinners and defoggers. in current OU, theres only one consistent spinner and no defoggers, since corviknight never runs it now
Corviknight actually runs it about 50% of the time on high ladder, so there is a viable defogger. You just u-turn when ghold comes in and switch something that can threaten it.
But I do agree, that's the core reason why hazards are the way they are in SV, the inbalance between setters and removers.
Tbh if boots weren’t a thing I thin SV would be worse because hazards would be way too dominating
That’s what happens when Goldengho remains in the tier 💀
@@lordpyron3934 this has nothing to do with gholdengo, go look up the pokemon that learn defog and rapid spin and see that there are literally none
@@naapurihei Both can be a problem at the same time. Gholdengo is a Pokemon that can go into just about any team that wants offensive momentum, but especially HO, and is also probably the greatest spin block of all time. It’s bad there’s no hazard removal, and it’s bad that there’s a Pokemon handcrafted to make Hazard Stack the predominant strategy.
Good metas, Bad metas. It's simply the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should only play RBY 10U
RBY is the best tier, because it's the one I'm nostalgic for, therefore invalidating any other arguments that could be made, and those who disagree are stupid.
no lefties ?????????? best gen my god !
Based
Cannot wait for this. I am convinced I will disagree with every single take and I couldn’t be more excited
I love these kind of videos i remember with jimothy cool made the same before gen 9 interesting to see two different perspectives
Here because ik BKC likes discourse
lovely PMD playlist in the background :3
do pre-pokebank Gen 6 OU, imo extremely underrated and was the most fun I ever had in competitive
Okay, but how exactly? I don’t think they have a ladder for it, and certainly not a permanent one.
@@lancesmith8298 idk I'm not a magic youtuber, I'm just shouting the idea out into the void
great vid!
great video, would love to see this repeated for UU and other low tiers you play
Proly not the expected outcome, but next time i give myself time for some competitive Pokémon I'm definitely trying gen 8 ou. Looking at the games and teams boots don't even seem that relevant, and the pacing seems so chill.
Now, best tiers are those where flygon is tournament viable (the flygon theorem), but that means gen3 i already play, gen 4 which i find extremely unwelcoming to new players, or texting real people trying to get people to play low tiers. Yikes.
You can experiment with Flygon as a defogger in gen 8 OU! Now it might not be great, but I think there's something in there.
Imagine a world where mega flygon was a thing and thus Gen 6 was good (I do kinda agree on the flygon theorem given that last Gen I played ru and adv is awesome)
@@Dragostorm21 right!? Flygon has such neat characteristics, any tier where his offensive and defensive profile is valuable is bound to have a nice balance.
regarding adv teams that matchup fish, what do u think about vapicuno's philosophy that in a bo3/bo5 a team that does well in most matchups but is dog in a few matchups is fine?
How would you recommend getting good at DPP? Coming from ADV and GSC, I like the faster flow a lot while not being overbearing, but it is the tier I’ve struggled to learn the most because of things like learning to consistently play around hax (Jirachi) and figuring out lasts
Just ladder and watch spl gameplay . Hey even get a mentor if you want to accelerate very fast
I believe he made a video about this.
In defence of boots, stealth rock made certain types just unviable because they would lose half or a quarter of their HP to rocks, meaning they only get to hit the field once or not at all. If it was like spikes where ot deals constant damage to all types it wouuld be better, also stealth rock weak pokemon have to sacrifice an item in order to not take damage which is quite a big sacrifice and not that big of a deal when you compare it to leftovers which just heals off the damage so it pretty much has an even stronger effect on non stealth rock weak pokemon, such as slowking so correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't slowking be just as unkillable with leftovers? Also specifically in gen 8 heavy duty boots is balanced by how common knock off is, and that provides a consistent way to make progress against defence that relies on heavy duty boots
seems like what you described as a gripe with adv perfectly encapsulates old school magdol
Elaborate if you will.
@@yourdaganI'm assuming that he was referencing BKC's point about "lost in the sauce" or extreme matchup fishing. Where you make a team and pray to God for Skarm and or the absence of other prominent OU Pokemon
As someone who’s played Pokémon his whole life just now getting into DPP OU do you have one single tip that would help me starting out? Also, your vids are helping me a lot as a new player. Keep it up 👍
watch high level tour games, try to understand why plays were made and if they were good or not, analyze the teams, and practice! (ladder, tours in the ruins of alph showdown room, sign up for forum tours, join the dpp discord)
@@BKCplaysPokemon ty beast
I'd love to see you do a video on what your "perfect" Pokemon-style game would be from a mechanical point of view. Smogon Singles metagames are balanced around however Nintendo decides the mechanics should work, it would be interesting to see a Pokemon-style game purely based around competitive gameplay without the RPG aspects.
It would be a lot easier to get into GSC if the ladder wasn't basically dead. But that requires a lot more players. But it would be easier to get more players if the ladder wasn't dead. Truly a catch-22 scenario for our poor GSC OU metagame
GSC (i.e. all its tiers) has an extreme publicity issue that the playerbase is not entirely willing to fix.
I can understand its players' frustrations with the metagame being misrepresented, but they cause frustrations in turn by pretending peoples' misconceptions came out of nowhere and not their own experiences with the tier.
Saying one's negative experiences and consequent viewpoint is invalid is insulting and just turns people off from the metagame still.
I would rather have 1 game per hour against a real opponent than 5 games per hour against little Timmy who just sprinted home from middle school to try his epic Venusaur lead. There are fewer than 10 good GSC players
I think it’s just extremely difficult to get players to learn, spend time in, etc a meta where the average game takes like 20 minutes.
You can burn me at the stake, but gen 8 at the end of the generation, was a really good one. It was in my opinion the most balanced ou
this is just true
I want a BKC sv stream. Just playing the tier
I haven't watched the video yet, but I've been watching your vids for ~4 years and feel like I have a pretty good idea of your preferences.
Bottom 3 generations are going to be gen 9, 8, and 7 (perhaps gen 5 just based on how unbalanced it is?).
Top 3 are going to be gens 4, 3, and tossup between gen 6 and 2
Edit: This also happens to be how detailed each generation tends to be on FSG vids.
i thought hard on it and made my own and it is crazy how heavily gen 4 has been moving up my list, i have it ranked above RBY in 5th which says a lot because i really didnt like it after latias just dropped. having played a lot of gen 9 has made me appreciate it more and spikes feel better balanced than where they are in BW right now. i still don't think anything beats out GSC and ADV for me, just such incredible tiers
I want to say 100% I think gen 9 is a huge work in progress with many things that still need to go, even with Volc gone this tier still feels way too offensively broken to me but I think with a few more cuts (Roaring Moon and Kyurem especially) this tier could be completely fine and one of my favorites
32:20 RBY is many things, but there is objectively not variety. 3 mons have over 94% tournament usage! Another is 84, and another is 65! So basically, the only variety is the last slot. Which is what, a choice between 5 mons? That’s honestly my main gripe with RBY. It’s just boring to play day in and day out-it feels more like chess than mons.
By having three pokemon who excel guaranteed in their roles, it opens versatility for the remaining slots. I think it actually promotes variety, to a degree.
@@WarioLandIV gotta agree to disagree. Any time you have a mandatory mon, variety is stunted to an extent. And if there are 4? How is that variety? You’re seeing the same team structure literally every game
I actually agree
8:35
I brought it up as a joke in the other video, but we do remember Mega Alakazam exists, right?
55/50/65/175/105/150???
Not everything’s about base stats, but still. Mega Charizard is an outlier if anything. The average Mega mostly just pumps up an attack stat and speed.
Thats partly because of what Zam have always been though.
A lot of megas didnt stray too far from going with 30/20 spread around extra stats. Zam is actually only slightly over the norm in that case. You have Blastoise getting overarching stats boost and then its SPA forced to be the highest so it got 50. Heracross gets whole ass 60 on attack
Megagross and Megamence gets 10 on PATK and while Megagross did pump speed its entirely to put it right at the common 110 marks(it ended up with flat 110-120 on their non Physical Stats). Megamence get 50 Defense to achieve similar style of stats as Megagross
And tbf they also tend to generally keep the ratio of their old stats and a lot of pre Mega Mons did have that massive of a gap between their offense and their non offense
If you want a truly min-max mega, look no further than Mega Beedrill. Not only it pumped all it's point to attack and speed, it SUCKED UP 30 points from Sp atk, making it an effective 130 buff to it's stats, then they slapped one of the most generically strong offensive abilities to it.
But then again, it's f#$@ing Beedrill we are talking about, it needed all the help it could get and even then it didn't get to be OU.
Now we need to rank every tier!
*Final ranking from WORST (top) to BEST (bottom):*
...
_9th:_ GEN 9 OU
_8th:_ GEN 8 OU
_7th:_ GEN 5 OU
...
_6th:_ GEN 7 OU
_5th:_ GEN 1 OU
_4th:_ GEN 6 OU
...
_3rd:_ GEN 2 OU
_2nd:_ GEN 3 OU
_1st:_ GEN 4 OU
Thank you :)
with my limited experience playing it it feels like it's easy to talk about the bad stuff in gen 5 OU but it was genuinely really fun
maybe it’s cause im a newer gen player but it’s utterly insane how you can go from showing the most colorful, diverse, unpredictable tier in gen 7 to then showing us gen 1 8-bit sprites where the most innovative meta shift is sing chansey. i am still waiting to be convinced on how gen 7 is not the best tier along with DPP.
I can't speak to Gen 7 as I have never seriously followed it and only seen glimpses of what it's like.
Gen 1 OU's apparent lack of diversity is not actually enforced, in the sense of, you do not need to run all the things people consider to be the best or most viable. It is possible to run a mon like Sandslash, way in the lowest tier placements, perfectly fine in Gen 1 OU.
Just because people aren't using certain things doesn't mean the potential isn't there. This is the way in which Gen 1 OU is similar to Gen 3 OU, where even a mon like Butterfree has been proven capable of pulling its weight even if most people don't bother with it.
Ultimately, it's a playerbase issue, not the metagame issue. Similar to BKC's complaints in the Gen 3 section here.
unpredictable is not a positive competitive attribute.
1:00:20, why didn't BP pass off the calm mind boost?
display glitch!
tbh i thikn gen 9 gets bottom spot simply because it hasn't been locked and is subject to change. a metagame that is still settling down would be like rating a meta like gen5 ou before any excadrill restrictions or Deo s being legal
I just tuned in, but i eagerly anticipate hearing about all the reasons BW OU reigns at the top of the list.
My prayers have been answered
Honestly, I could never get into DPPl. It just feels like hazards are at their strongest here, being second to Gen 9's personal removal blocker.
Know your probably talking about singles ou, but vgc and dou is actually pretty fun this gen.
I've been toying with the idea of creating the "perfect" meta. A hybrid of all the best gens. Taking good things like nerfing Scald and recovery moves PP that gen 9 did right, while leaving out all the stupid decisions. The power level would be ideally be between Gen 7 and Gen 8. Possibly an item clause- perhaps bring back Megas but not Z-moves- stuff like that.
Do you think something like that would be possible, and would you be interested in something like that?
In the Gen 3 segment, you touch a lot on Match up fishing. My question is: if a tier is balanced and promotes the more skilled player winning, then doesn’t that mean that if you are playing against a player who is equal or better then you, then the match up essentially determines the win and you have to rely on crazy hax to flip the script?
OU gen 5 ❤
What are those GSC nicknames?
Finally!
Talking about gen 1 rng being manageable while players frantically swap between para spam and rest spam. All the while praying for a full para. I hate coin flips. I hope one day we look back on freeze at least as a silly footnote in pokemon.
I like gen 1, but it is pretty RNG based. Thats any gen though.
Thank you, Bentucky Kried Chicken
The Adv section could be summarise as "Fuck Mag".
Gen 1 OU doesn't have Umbreon. Trash.
(to be clear rby is my 3rd favorite ou)
15:42 you didn’t even talk about dynamax
:( it’s fun
@pantsmonsterv6 wasn’t always banned
@@DigitalRag3X but it's banned now and has been for a while so why would he talk about it
Finally.
Finally.
Finally
My worst to best is 9, 5, 6, 1, 2, 8, 4, 3, 7
Baneful Krunker Cephalopod
ALL metagames without Landorus-Therian are better than ones with it..
RBY OU has always felt like drawing blood from a stone in terms of interesting things to do.
Gens 4 and onwards will probably look drastically different in 20 years; RBY really doesnt
The only thing stopping mon and team experimentation in gen1ou is player comfort. There are plenty of viable low tiers and unorthodox comps.
My top 5 OU Meta list-
Gen 5 BW1
Gen 6 XY
Pre Home Gen 8
USUM Pre Naga Ban
Gen 4 HGSS
I understand that this is mostly a preference ranking, but it's kind of insane to me that you would consider Gen 8 the worst generation, and the justification isn't really coherent with what you said in the beginning of the video. It's clearly so much more competitively balanced than 1, 5, 6 and 7. It's ok to value other things more than balance and competitiveness (like a subjective dislike of boots for example), but the idea that they are comparable in that regard and the only thing differentiating them is preference is ridiculous
41:19 ☝🤓
top 3 gens all no team preview, that’s Kevin Cultured
It's the ones he grew up with.
After one minute of video, here is my prediction :
1- Gen 3
2- Gen 4
3- Gen 6
4- Gen 2
5- Gen 8
6- Gen 1
7- Gen 7
8- Gen 5
Gen 1 and 7 as well as Gen 2 and 6 are my closest calls to being swapped, and I have no idea where he’s going to put Gen 9 because it’s clearly unfinished as of now
Add-on : I really thought he would value Gen 8 more but after the Boots and switch moves rant it’s not that surprising that it’s so low I guess
Also Pursuit
Remember when Magearna was OU?
and it should be banned
jirachi apologist smh my head
couldn't agree more with what you said about heavy duty boots
Hazards are def a nesecary evil in singles, especially when pivot moves and regenerator exist. Wish GF went back to Gen 7 with the hazard situation.
ORAS is a meta that would really enjoy Boots bc with Mega and Z crystals its unlikely you run wanna mono boots but those same Mega and Z also provide the balance to knock off.
There's no Z crystals in ROSA
@@flo4130 ROSA
:skull:
@@TheBestFormOfHumor yep I typed the french names of the game by habit, no need to act like a child.
While gen 9 is one of my least favorite metagames, my favorite play to make across all the generations is a correct tera prediction. Nothing as satisfying imo
sv solos
Rby OU would be so much better with a sleep ban. Almost every team using a sleeper is just redundant and is just about rng
naah without sleep the lead meta would be degen it would probably consist of only the parafolder who also spread it, and mainly chansey. jynx and gengar will join jolt, slowbro and the uubl mons as not being really viable. sleep is the best tool to gut the formidable chansey and snorlax and seriously one good sleep is not that easy to place and when it's done the opponent still has a chance in this meta. In UU it's hard to check all the threat so it can really get you
Failed in UU. Would fail in OU.
You either like Pokemon or you don't.
@@yourdagan so every team being the same and using the same strat is a good thing? Good to know thanks dad
@@Slackjaw Perhaps depends upon what you consider to be "the same strat", kiddo.
1100 elo take
my rankings (haven't played 1-5):
4 - ss
3 - oras
2 - sv
1 - sm
Instead of ranking the tiers I will rank my favorite staple Pokemon in each tier.
Gen 1: Exeggutor
Gen 2: Forretress
Gen 3: Charizard
Gen 4: Scizor
Gen 5: Mamoswine
Gen 6: Mega Manectric
Gen 7: Landorus T
Gen 8: Volcarona
Gen 9: Dragonite
woah now charizard isnt quite a staple of adv ou a good ou pokemon for sure but i wouldnt say its a staple by any means
gen 1: Lax
gen 2: Lax/zapdos
gen 3: ttar/zapdos
gen 4: ttar
gen 5: ttar
gen 6: lando T (f gliscor users)
gen 7: lando T
gen 8 and gen 9: I don't playthose
Charizard ain't a staple. IMO still UUBL level. Countered by Milotic.
Half of these aren't even staples of their tier
Gen 9- stall isnt a issue and skill is the only thing which decides who should win a match and the most amount of variety in mons in our as no pokemon has more that 30 percent use and tera is by far the best mechanic where skill matters a lot makes it by far the no 1 for me
If bro never played it he should not dare to say anything and put it at bottom which is dumb bro just knows how to play a game with good rng dont know how to play a skill game and just being the stupidest type person to put it at last i know he will delete this comment but genuine,y putting gen 9 at last is bad and automatically makes this tier list the worst in my opinion just bad and let him play game mod like gen 3 and 4 where everything depends on who gets more lucky with pokemon matchup and thats the best game for people like them
And instead of deleting this comment comeon and have a battle in this comment section if you dare as i am pretty sure you are not going to do
Did you just argue that a pokémon game had almost no rng?? In the generation with Tera no less (tera does have skill involved, but sometimes it is almost a coin flip)
(besides, Gen 9 has a lot to hate, notably no pursuit, boots existing, insane minmaxed mons and garbage hazard control)
There are also things to like, but don't act like Gen 9 is perfect or that Gen 9 has little to no rng
46:20 My mom texted me just before this and I thought "Oh I'll answer later". You then proceeded to berate me for my decision. Unsubscribed for being man :(
If you talk bad about Gen 7 I will be deleting my blaziken
G S C
Hard disagree on sv, it is in fact the most skill-rewarding gen of all time. Tera basically added an emergency panic button for the player on the back foot to give the better builder/player an out even vs the cheesiest of cheese, effectively expanding the roster beyond 6 mons and 4 moves. Any argument that tera bolsters the offensive proponent and makes broken shit more broken is countered by the fact that a defensive flip more often than not undoes the offensive tera. When one gets baited and loses the tera game then loses to the opponent’s tera sweeper, it is actually a component of getting outplayed. Sv has by far the most options in terms of mons, items, moves, spreads, and teras, and overwhelmingly rewards the more skillful player. Sure, on the surface level the average joe may get swept more easily than past gens by some broken shit w a broken tera, but at the pinnacle of this tier the best of the best almost always outbuild and outplay simply because they are better at utilizing the greater-than-ever expanse of tools at their disposal. Also factoring in crit nerf and stall nerf, the strats that pray for longer games and the opportunity to accumulate small mistakes/ hax chance like wave spam and status spam defensive shit such as those in ss,sm,dpp are no longer unpunished. When judging a tier, it is easy to see if it rewards skill or rewards sitting behind some do-nothing stalwarts and pray for opponents to slowly get chipped away by rng chance, the most atrocious of which is ss. SV has a combination of instant gratification button in choiced hits and booster setup, but also the tools to outlast in 4 whole viable unaware mons and salt which punishes everything. This is the tier in which doing nothing is punished the most, and isn’t the entire goal of this game to go out and WIN the game rather than pray your opponent LOSES it before you shit the bed? In my opinion SV is the pinnacle of skill and SS is the epitome of dogshit. I would rank SV first and, in no particular order, rby/gsc/adv/bw/oras/sm in the next block, then dpp as second worst, and finally SS the worst tier of all time. Thank you for tuning in to my Ted talk
I think Tera Reveal should have been the compromise to make everyone happy (I never supported a ban).
I honestly adore a lot of the foundations of Gen 9, to the point I like it way more than the other nu-gens. But the Smogon council has removed so much of its identity from their tiers (specifically OU) over the course of the game's lifespan that I don't take it seriously at all anymore. Before that, I totally liked it way more than Gen8OU.
I just got into VGC with Regulation G not even a week ago and this is the most fun I've had with a current gen in years. I think GameFreak somehow ended up laying the foundation this gen for metagames that just hit all the right spots, for me personally.
Womp womp it's not skillful like gholdengo outright should not exist,+volc+goug+stall is almost too good rn (from a stall player)
Defensive tera only hard flips a poor offensive mu where the opponents whole team is walled. Otherwise, you just sunk your tera into defensively checking 1 mon, possibly lose the ability to check whatever mon(s) the tera'd mon was checking before AND your offensive threats don't have tera...
@@yourdagan tera reveal only is a big deal in doubles cuz it doubles randomness and 5050 factor whereas in ou its a pseudo non-preview mechanic akin to an upgraded dpp. tera knowledge is just like the old metas' knowledge factor, where you have to read their last mon based on team structure ---- in tera's case, you play to bait/deduce the opponent tera (if a pult is in vs kyurem, they often uturn to scout tera fairy). What did the council remove exactly? current ou enjoys a plethora of options and the bans were atrocious monsters like sneasler and ursaluna-bm, or straight up ubers like chiyu and chienpao. Did the shed tail ban really remove ou's identity? I feel like this is the most balanced meta in a few years, and I would need to see a more specific argument on what makes the meta lack identity.
@@tomgorey9294 volc + gouge + stall is not used on any serious stall. You may be a stall player, but obviously not a very good one
Gen 5 OU not dead last, invalid list
Gen 2 OU is wild, only gen they allow a straight-up ubers mon in, and its not even a discussion.
If lax is okay, likes of Ho-oh and celebi could be there too.
From what I've heard Celebi is stall incarnate.
Pretty sure BKC has a video about why Snorlax uniquely works in OU.
No they couldn't lmao Ho-oH and Celebi in OU would be unkillable
Ho-oh and celebi wouldn't be better than lax but they would make meta a lot slower
@@user-sw8gb3fz8x ho-oh dies if a rock looks at it funny, does it not?
Gen 8 OU best
Eleventh
If I had to choose off of viewing experience:
Gen 9
Gen 8
Gen 4
Gen 3
Gen 5
Gen 2
Gen 6
Gen 1
Gen 7
Gen 7 is so boring to watch. Lando leads 50% of the time and colt switch u turn everywhere and boring tapus, tran, pex, and clef. Yawn.
But on my list, where I say I start to become “indifferent” (and not bored) is Gen 2, and then everything below that is just “yawn”
lol
As long as gen 8 is the worst 🙌🙌🙌
gen 1 OU >>>>> gen 6 OU
Gen 8 is the best one
current gen 8 easily the best OU rn
Said nobody ever
@@gligurr lmaoo only people that dont play the tier hate gen 8, always talking about being too "stally" when its more offense-centric than gen 7 in modern times. im sure your opinion of ss is entirely based on very early ss metas (which tbf sucked), because if you played the tier nowadays you'd know it's fun asf
@@paternozzocan confirm current ss is more offensive than usum
The amount of people constantly hyping up Gen 3 OU lately has made me hate the tier more than anything
You may be a hipster, sir.
@@yourdagan liking older gens makes you a hipster
@@KanameCeruleaor a patrician