Takes me back a bit . As a kid growing up in the 60s my older brother some 20+ years my senior was seriously into cars was an engineer at Fords Dagenham ( no xhortage of spares ) and loved to build and mod cars fabbing manifolds etc for his Rochford kit car . I used to collect dumped bikes from a nearby wasteland dismantled them and sold parts to buy tools and began messing about with Villiers 2 sytroke engines .it was much cheaper to mod 2 T engines as to get more power you took metal out of ports etc , instead of adding valves , cams etc. Although I did have a go at an E93A " high lift " cam by grinding the base circles down a bit .To overcome points bounce , I used strips of razor blades tucked into the contact breaker points spring and ditched internal coils for larger external ones with higher turns ratios , and remove the heavy flywheels from the centre hub and run a 6V railway lamp battery Later in the 60s I got to play with the Volvo Penta outboard on his Tremlett and Yeoman Warrior skiboat . Graham was also into hi fi and the first CDI system that I come across was published in either Practical Wireless or Wireless World by a chap called Turton or Tarleton in 1969/70 as a DIY project , a points triggered push pull oscillator charged SCR capacitor system I later found out was based on a patented design owned by a Canadian inventor that had been intercepted by the US and leaked internationally . Another brother had just come of age to race bikes and I made one for his machine that I had built my first racing engine for . He picked up a 3rd place in an all comers race at Cadwell Park on his debut , beating much larger capacity machines . My bible was 2 Stroke High Performance Tuning by Cesare Boesaglia . The Dagenham libraries at the time were full of mechanical engineering books thanks to Fords and their various sponsorships . I had the bug and was using metalwork lessons at school to machine bike and later car parts and looked after my English teachers JAP engined Morgan that he raced . Its amazing how quickly a kid learns with a huge interest coupled with a lack of money . Versions of that ignition system flooded the market here as a result of the publication , probably the most popular being the Boyer Bransden unit because in later versions it had a tiny LED that allowed the user to set the points accurately , worked extremely well on bike's and cars and almost as cheap to buy as the cost of parts to make one .
I think I speak for many of us nerdy gear heads, thank you so much what you have done and continue to do. Our success is built off the backs of people like you. The ones who know a lot of this info would rather take their secrets to the grave, but we appreciate you putting it out there for us. We will continue your work and spread the good word of truth!
I’m glad that you mentioned the difference in some points actually varying in spring pressure! a few years ago I tuned an a15 that had noticeable dwell issues at higher rpm struggling to reach its peak and the found that new points started to float at 6500 ish rpm the spring was thin rubbish compared with the older contacts! so I rebuilt the old one with parts from the new ones and added a coil spring for further contact pressure now the ignition has consistency at 8000 rpm’s and it’s quite happy now for a non electronic system
In the 1960's we used a Sun Distributor Machine (Synchroscope) to setup our distributors. For competition a dual point distributor was a must. They were designed so that you would get an increase of 3-5 extra deg of dwell by the offset of the points. In some cases we were able to set the point sping tension about 32oz, which was good to above 7K RPM. Those were the golden days of muscle cars and powerful engines.
Great video. When I worked as an apprentice in the early 80's at an MOD manufacturers site we where building Capacitive Discharge electronic ignition systems for our first cars in our spare time as projects. We all the facilities to hand with a winding shop to make us transformers and all the other parts. We were building ones which could generate 3 inch sparks but this did limit the revs by the size of the capacitor. Great fun and we were causing lots of noise in the test bed area! Prior art is any evidence that your invention is already known. "Prior art does not need to exist physically or be commercially available. It is enough that someone, somewhere, sometime previously has described or shown or made something that contains a use of technology that is very similar to your invention."
During the 1970’s i was building field bikes with my son. One such was based on a bsa b31 frame and triumph 110 engine. Now i dont need to tell anyone how lousy the triumph electrics were in general. However the one good thing was an uncontrolled alternator which ran at crank speed. So in the shed i turned out a dual contact breaker low voltage distributor, giving a coil for each cylinder. Then realising the limitations of standard kettering ignition i plummed for transistor amplifiers on the contacts. However not being happy with the fact less energy is given to the spark the higher the revs go(a function of charge time). I decide to feed the coils with constant current instead, the alternator being uncontrolled would give higher voltage at higher revs,perfect ! I stored the energy in an electrolytic capacitor 70 volts working and 3000 mfd. Constant current was via whats known as emmiter followers these transistors also switched the ignition pulses, win ,win. Needless to say it performed like a rocket and no missfires. The down side was it gobbled plugs monthly, but it was great fun.
Ahhh. Who here remembers Mallory 4 lobe distributors for V8's? In my limited experience what I worked out was that once you have enough spark to do what you need it to, then you don't need to have any more. Excessive spark energy in my experience reduces reliability. That said I've seen motors that load up on fuel at an 1100rpm idle speed, idle perfectly, and stable at 750rpm with just a change of ignition system. The greatest gains from ignition systems that I've noticed, outside of rpm potential, are often in part throttle operation, and drivability. Just my personal experiences. Great stuff David. Regards Greg
Thanks again DV I bought several of your books but that was a long time ago before these phones were out now I get to just pull you up I'm still buying books though keep up the good work
Always good info coming from u David I think I can design so many better things. Than what the market has but I'll keep them for private use as I'm just not liking the big tech and corperatesided of this world at the moment. Keep up the good work.
Nicola Tesla did a lot of work on mechanical spark gap including magnetic spark quench to have a short fast spark discharge and in oil spark quench, Nicola was the first to work in high frequency electricity DC, and at High voltage this created scalar energy. 😊
Nikola Tesla made a million volts of electricity and could light bulbs a mile away without wires His Tesla Coil is the same Coil in a car transforming 12 volts to 70,000 volts that spark today's car engines
Happy Holidays! I understand everything what You are saying, because I start my journey in the "motor" world in my childhood. I have VW Golf 2 very old, which is tuned with electronic combustion system and I use NGK V-Line spark plugs now with groove at the central electrode and yes - it`s something similar what You sad about "hot edges"... and my V-Line spark is "puffy" and wide in dimensions. I am very happy with this spark plug and these are the second 4 spark plugs (first 4 go bad after 30 000 km). Thank you! Happy New Year!
Regarding split fire plugs. I've found a noticeable increase in power by installing "Screaming Eagle" split fire plugs in my 80 CI Harley Davidson Evolution engine. My guess is that the ground strap split must have somehow unshielded the spark a bit better than a conventional plug. The Screaming Eagle was nothing more than a conventional Autolite plug with the split strap. Now I was running a single fire multi spark discharge (very early version) on this bike, no waste spark ignition. I bragged to my buddy who had a AMF Harley shovel head, and he didn't believe me, always had his faith set in Accel plugs. One day he showed up to my house on his bike & told me that he had fouled his plugs & went to buy new ones, but the dealership only had Screaming Eagle plugs. He couldn't believe the power increase. He was running conventional points and a waste spark ignition. They were pretty pricy in the early 90's but only had to buy 2 so it wasn't too bad.
Up to means The max someone has made vs all the rest. U can make "up to 30mpg" meaning the right set on conditions you can make that. So your welcome. Glad I could clear that up for u bud.
I made sparkplug pressure cells (with visible window, pressure gauge) to help evaluate ignition and plug while under 120 PSI. Insight was provided to stick with HEI run on 14.4 Volts, and well side-gap. Trad plug, only because the ideal plug would cost development money. Ideal being no GND strap, and natural side gap with capacitive area to promote the long spark. Geez coaxial sheild wires and plugs (aviation) seal the joules deal.
Excellent information, you really help us low dollar racers. We can't afford to throw money at a problem or hire a high dollar builder. We can think our way through things if we have foundational knowledge. Do you have any thoughts on spark plug indexing? I do it out of habit, but can't say if there's any true value to it. Thanks David 😊
@David Vizard: Why not showing the drilled spark plugs and how you did it. Must have been hard to find such a tiny drill and drill it straight down. What about Golden Lodge British made spark plugs which are common in Alfa Romeo's? These have no regular ground electrode but little stumps on the side.
I always swap out my spark plugs with some copper plugs, then change them out during my summer oil change every 2-3years. Unless I can’t find one for the application, Like the 3.6L Pennstarstar V6 in my Durango. 😢 But this leads me to a question, i’ve seen some people on the Internet talking About. when used in some of these new were coil on plug applications. Some people are saying that you really shouldn’t run copper spark plugs because in some cases the copper is literally melting. And there are some pretty nasty pictures out there too. Now I’m starting to wonder if they should have gone one or two heat ranges colder because the energy being transferred through the electrode he ignition system was designed to work around the platinum or Iridium spark plug that has more resistance. But then I have a contradictory thoughts that say if the ignition system was turned up enough to hurt the bare copper then wouldn’t that have shortened The lifespan of the other spark plugs? But they are still going well over 100,000 miles, Like when they were introduced with the older ignition systems designed to run our old copper plugs. Back when they first started claiming they could run 100,000 miles. And they are still doing that today with the newer coil unplug applications. When I get into a loop of proving and disapproving my own theories, it’s a never ending circle. What’s your thoughts on it? And if you have another thought for me to chew on for a while. Then I’ll gladly except that too. 👍🏻
The most interesting plugs I've played with lately are the Bosch +4's which work really well in centrally located 4 valve engines. Not so great in 2 valve wedge heads though. Anyhow...taking out a set with about 50,000 miles and looking at the electrodes showed one to be much more worn than the other 3.....another with some wear and the remaining 2 electrodes looking like new. The ceramic surrounding the center fine wire electrode clearly showed tracks mostly going to that one worn ground and much weaker ones to the others corresponding well with the observed wear. This got me to wondering just WHY would the spark choose that one electrode over the others? The only thing I can think of is that the spark jumps to that electrode easier...and the only way that can happen...being that all are the same material and distance...is that whatever is between ground and center is more conductive. The only thing in the chamber that is conductive is the fuel vapor so it looks like the plug automatically fires the most conductive path which also lights more fuel more efficiently. Full power WOT doesn't seem to make a lot of difference what plug design you use...and this has been shown countless times by dyno runs, but my testing showed an absolute superiority in the +4 design at light throttle. Holding a set manifold vacuum level and then driving up a long grade the +4's always got to the top at a higher speed than the comparison NGK stock electrode version. I do believe it's because at light throttle the mixture density is weak and the stock plug can light only the fuel that is in or near the gap where the +4's consistently light the charge better by choosing the optimum spark path. This results in a little more power at the same light throttle setting which translates into a bit better fuel economy.
My first car was a 61 MG midget that I paid a whopping $100.00 for. The guy I bought it from said it's not like a chevy that's way more forgiving and carefree. Well the car look so pretty that I bought it anyway. He was right, I spent more time under it than in it.
When I switched to Iridium plugs on a couple of different cars the power output increase was noticeable, but also the fuel economy on my truck improved a lot. I went from 18 mpg to 21+ mpg with the Iridium plugs, and like I said the power output difference was noticeable while driving. I don't know what the power difference actually is, but the fuel economy was easy to measure. Someday, I'd like to put the truck on a dyno with the two different plugs to actually measure the difference.
Iridium has one advantage: It lasts longer. That's it. It's a harder metal, and resists erosion better in the combustion chamber. It also has one disadvantage: It has a higher electrical resistance. It will, in theory, cause a slightly smaller spark but probably immeasurable. I suspect your old plugs were just eroded to hell and anything new would've made a difference.
@@Joe4USMC I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of the two different plugs, but the engine was a new rebuild with brand new plugs and only about 1,000 miles on it, so worn out plugs were not the difference. The Iridium plugs have a very thin electrode though, so perhaps that is playing a role. I also switched to Iridium plugs on another engine that I built from all new parts, and I found the same thing happened. Definitely felt like more power, and the mileage improved a lot. Two different engines in two different cars, a brand new engine and a fresh rebuild with new plugs on both. One may be a fluke, two is not yet a trend, but there is something different with them, and it's not just the material. I think the material allows them to change the electrode design in a way that make it perform better.
Dear Sir Mr Vizard, how many Joules of energy (per pulse) is enough in order to burn all the fuel - air mixture, in the combustion chamber, let say in a 100mm diameter piston head? As i understand, the advance timing of firing before the TDC, is heavily affect the results. Also the gas - to - air mixture has effect on this. And please make a comment on multi - spark ignitions technology. Before some years i was in task to design an electronic Ignition. Thanks In advance. Antony Theodorakis.
One myth I've heard from some local racers over the years concerning msd type ignition during my time in parts retail is - the ignition coil should be as close to the distributor as possible with the shortest coil to distributor cable as possible. Can address this Mr David? Thank you!
A ground connection of 1/2" wire mesh directly between the Coil and Engine block completes the HV spark circuit as effectively as is possible, especially better compared to a single automotive wire all the way over to the batteries negative terminal. Hence they invented "Coil-Over" ignition transformers, which an almost ZERO spark and ground conductor length.
Right, I guess I should have asked about this concerning the ignitions other than HEI, my question was aimed at those such as msd type. There is a reason the drag racers and circle track racers aren't using HEIs, right, other than street stock class which are not as all out high performance with restricted carb, cam, heads, Intake and run hei ignitions
To be constructive regarding your information about sparkplugs and the differences to increase spark energy you should actually hold up a sparkplug and together with sparkplug in hand explain in practical terms what you're trying to convey to the viewer. A teacher uses a blackboard and so should you where an item is not available. Great information btw!
Because anyone that listens to these videos and is building and modifying engines isn’t familiar with a spark plug? and would benefit from being shown so they know what he’s talking about? 😂 Yeah I agree that for demonstrations on other more complex matters visible representation helps! but I’m sure most on this channel would know what a spark plug is
@@needmoreboost6369Needmorebrains, your comment is proof that you didn't comprehend what I said, nor did you pay any attention to what Mr. Vizard was trying to explain. He didn't discuss what a sparkplug is, he was actually talking about the complex differences in each sparkplug design contradicting your own statement. On top of that you surmise that everyone watching this video is an engine builder? Wrong again! if that were the case I doubt he'd have enough viewers to warrant making a video. I like watching boxing but I don't need to be one to enjoy watching it. Here's the most valid point refuting your statement, you're watching a video on UA-cam where you get to learn from both watching and listening to what is being presented on any subject in the world. If UA-cam was only an audio format I wouldn't be here. One more final thought, Mr. Vizard asks for viewers to comment about his content and to express any ideas how to make it better. I don't recall commenting on your videos. From what I glean from your comment is that you take offense when someone expresses a valid idea directed to the content creator even when its non of your damn business.
Yes indeed mr. Vizard should show us more actual content like the drilled plugs, cut through leads, measured thickness and how he did it. And where is the story when using infection and ECU's?
Me Comment before watching; GM HEI has the variable dwell chip within to properly charge the COIL for best joules across to the secondary vs RPM. Not aware of any better dwell- coil combo for the cost. The modern Analog CD capactive discharge (mostly 2-stroke engines) is most capable if we could have the coils optimized for V8 use, or waste-spark. I'm not at Coil on plug yet.
E3 plug electrode geometry is designed to merely compensate for the fact that the ignition system can't generate a high enough voltage to jump an 0.010 in. plug gap, which is the optimum plug gap.
Hello David, just wondering if U have Considered testing the Brisk Evo Plug for N/A Engines & there ×2 different Evo Plugs for either 10 lbs or 30 lbs Boost . Cheers 🍻 Robert Australia 🇦🇺
The great thing about electronic ignition over points in the 70s was they were a great order of magnitude more reliable than points. There are Mopar factory ignition boxes made in the first part of the 1970s that could still be working fine today, if only you could find an original car with them in. In other words the reluctor, pickup and ignition box could potentially outlive the rest of the car even if the coil and distributor wore out. Incredible reliability all said and done. Of course those boxes failed as did the pickups but for the most part they were extremely reliable.
How do you find these extended nose plugs? I'm sure my parts department will not have a clue what I'm talking about😏 and how do I know the plug is not too long for my engine M111 just measure it I suppose from the top of the piston, is there any disadvantage it being close to the piston?
So you used a transistor, and a denounce circuit, ? Maybe a Schmidt trigger I think it's called, I have only recently gotten into electronics, and how they work, I haven't thought about using a electronic assisted points ignition, you can possibly drop the points voltage to 3.3 or 5volts with very little current, and the electronics do the heavy lifting, you got me wanting to build a ignition system now! Haha, to power a MOSFET gate takes basically zero current to switch the boot strap resistor to keep it off, pulls more current , still micro amps ,
I put a new set of points in my 72 Nove Ss and it would not start so I put the old ones back in and it run so the new one was defective. Blue streak which at the time the best got another one at auto parts store and they were good
My experience with the e3 sparkplugs in 2 different vehicles were they only lasted a couple of months before they started missing and the engine was breaking up. HP tv ran them on a dyno and found hp and mileage out of them so I bought them. Absolute pieces of crap unless you replaced them all the time, but they were very expensive.
jisracing997 I agree, I had issues on a 1979 Cadillac, that they would foul out on number 8 cyl. after about 2 months. The factory AC Delco plugs lasted 2 years before they would foul out. Total pieces of junk.
The last Kettering system (I'd forgotten that name until watching this video) I ever used was replaced by a Hall effect sensor with a kit built CDI. The good thing about the kit was that it provided a wheel with magnets that slipped onto the distributor shaft and there were different kits for 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines. I used a performance coil and opened the plug gap a little and never had a problem with spark as long as I used that car only needing to swap rotor, cap and plug leads. If I remember correctly it used MOSfets which were still fairly rare at the time though I don't believe that the benefit was that much since even the 2N3055 could easily handle the frequency required at any sort of RPM the engine could handle.
Hello Mr. Vizard, you didn't say anything about plug indexing. Also you implied the iridium plugs would not make as much power as a conventional plug. (They they are used for longevity, not performance or economy.) Why do you say this? Also why do cold spark plugs kill gas mileage? In my experience with Cleveland Fords, the cooler heat range of the plug made a very significant increase in power. So much so that I'd pull the "hot" plugs out on Friday and put the cold ones in and then put the hot ones back in Sunday afternoon. It was the cheapest power I ever found. But I had to do that because if I ran the cold plugs driving to work fuel economy was just dismal. Thank you for all your advice, experience and knowledge.
back in my oval track days, our engine builder ran multiple dyno runs with different plug indexing. Results - less then 1 HP and 3 ft/lbs of torque making the point of indexing plugs with a quality ignition system not worth the effort. I recently watched 2 video's showing the actual dyno runs on a modern LS/Vortec based 5.3, which backed up what we found 20 plus years ago. There are other areas better spent timewise, then wasting it indexing plugs. But as a old Veterinarian told us one day relating to horse supplements, "If it make YOU feel better, do it, it is not going to hurt the horse, but it is not going to help it either. Spend your money somewhere else!"
22:40 That is not actually correct. The spark jumps from the corners because that is where the charge concentrates not because it is the hottest point. If that were true then when the plug is out and cold the spark would jump randomly from any surface. It is the electrical pressure that forces the electrons to congregate at any projection so that is where the charge is highest, hot or cold. It just so happens that those same corners do get hotter but that is not the cause of the charge concentration.
Yes, I also didn't understand this point. It is school physics. I think high temperature is just the consequence of what you said(current heats points of charge concentration). Also, because of thermal conductivity, any sharp corner is hotter than bulk material.
David, if you are copying the videos from David Vizard Performance channel, you should know you never answer the "how I got the best power sparks" in those videos. Please review. Part three never added. - Regards
David, great information but maybe speed up the presentation and get to the point faster. This video could be shortened to 10min and still deliver all of the relevant info. You'll get more subscribers, more views, more likes. There are youtubers out there that have little to offer in terms of substance but they are entertaining to watch as they stumble through their automotive misadventures (just as an example, please don't copy their format)
The 4 cylinder 1255/1296 cc 1968 Renault Gordini R-1135 engine had a Hemi-Head (with big and close together valves) with a "Pre-Combustion" chamber that fed 2 ports, and that car won the World Rally championship. The Gordini cylinder head: i.pinimg.com/236x/df/d9/03/dfd9031a0255582d1255f7938c14ed7f.jpg
Could you comment on this? I once used a "judson magneto" on my 340 Dart Swinger. Mt et's dropped from 13's to low 12's gained 1000 rpm my mpg went from 18 to 21. Big drawback was back in those days when we had copper spark plugs they only lasted 3 days on the street before the tips were completely burned off. I want to try it on iridium plugs as of late. Again. Now i heard that this was made to start engines with wet spark plugs or "flooded". Thinking of sending my ignition out to cryo like other race teams. What do you say??
I know it's not the side of things you usually look at, but I've had serious motorcycle racers tell me that copper plugs make a hair more power than iridium. Is that something you've seen? Iridium lasts far longer obviously.
From my experience and testing that I've done on the dyno over the last 15 years, this only applies to non-resistor style plugs. For plug with built in resistors, there is VERY little difference in performance when comparing iridium to copper to silver, etc.
All plugs use a copper core." Copper" plugs are nickel plated, Iridium plugs have Iridium tips and Platinum plugs have Platinum tips. There's nothing good about copper plugs.
Increase capacitor plate area will fire much better: bigger dia post and bigger area GND ring. Platinum tip would be the anti-thesis to the long spark under compression.
For the one responsible for assembling these UA-cam contents...please invest a little time in spell check (lightning). This appears to be a standing problem and cheapens the content presentation. David will not be with us forever and he deserves better. Thank you for your time David.
YT seems to be doing other shady things as well. It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. Wait for the con artist to start showing up saying "text me on WhatsApp" and whatever the other one is. They're on Hoonigan all the time.
Spelling was just made up and changed only a few generations ago. David’s older than u Why nag his spelling On something that’s all made up. When he goes out of his way to share information. That you got. Despite spelling he successfully communicated. That’s more than most people these days can do with perfect spelling.
if your facility is rated TS, then why the F#$% would you talk about your security, unless you are lying. People without clearance talk about having clearance, those that do, don't talk about it.
I'm glad all of this information is being digitised Its like peeking into a secret lab
Takes me back a bit . As a kid growing up in the 60s my older brother some 20+ years my senior was seriously into cars was an engineer at Fords Dagenham ( no xhortage of spares ) and loved to build and mod cars fabbing manifolds etc for his Rochford kit car . I used to collect dumped bikes from a nearby wasteland dismantled them and sold parts to buy tools and began messing about with Villiers 2 sytroke engines .it was much cheaper to mod 2 T engines as to get more power you took metal out of ports etc , instead of adding valves , cams etc. Although I did have a go at an E93A " high lift " cam by grinding the base circles down a bit .To overcome points bounce , I used strips of razor blades tucked into the contact breaker points spring and ditched internal coils for larger external ones with higher turns ratios , and remove the heavy flywheels from the centre hub and run a 6V railway lamp battery Later in the 60s I got to play with the Volvo Penta outboard on his Tremlett and Yeoman Warrior skiboat . Graham was also into hi fi and the first CDI system that I come across was published in either Practical Wireless or Wireless World by a chap called Turton or Tarleton in 1969/70 as a DIY project , a points triggered push pull oscillator charged SCR capacitor system I later found out was based on a patented design owned by a Canadian inventor that had been intercepted by the US and leaked internationally . Another brother had just come of age to race bikes and I made one for his machine that I had built my first racing engine for . He picked up a 3rd place in an all comers race at Cadwell Park on his debut , beating much larger capacity machines . My bible was 2 Stroke High Performance Tuning by Cesare Boesaglia . The Dagenham libraries at the time were full of mechanical engineering books thanks to Fords and their various sponsorships . I had the bug and was using metalwork lessons at school to machine bike and later car parts and looked after my English teachers JAP engined Morgan that he raced . Its amazing how quickly a kid learns with a huge interest coupled with a lack of money .
Versions of that ignition system flooded the market here as a result of the publication , probably the most popular being the Boyer Bransden unit because in later versions it had a tiny LED that allowed the user to set the points accurately , worked extremely well on bike's and cars and almost as cheap to buy as the cost of parts to make one .
Very interesting history, thanks for contributing
Very interesting video with helpful insights! And all do respect to your daughter passing….
I think I speak for many of us nerdy gear heads, thank you so much what you have done and continue to do. Our success is built off the backs of people like you. The ones who know a lot of this info would rather take their secrets to the grave, but we appreciate you putting it out there for us. We will continue your work and spread the good word of truth!
Knowledge not passed on is just a waste... Thanks for sharing with us.
DV's straight talk on plugs is SOooooo refreshing!
I’m glad that you mentioned the difference in some points actually varying in spring pressure! a few years ago I tuned an a15 that had noticeable dwell issues at higher rpm struggling to reach its peak and the found that new points started to float at 6500 ish rpm the spring was thin rubbish compared with the older contacts! so I rebuilt the old one with parts from the new ones and added a coil spring for further contact pressure now the ignition has consistency at 8000 rpm’s and it’s quite happy now for a non electronic system
In the 1960's we used a Sun Distributor Machine (Synchroscope) to setup our distributors. For competition a dual point distributor was a must. They were designed so that you would get an increase of 3-5 extra deg of dwell by the offset of the points. In some cases we were able to set the point sping tension about 32oz, which was good to above 7K RPM. Those were the golden days of muscle cars and powerful engines.
Great video. When I worked as an apprentice in the early 80's at an MOD manufacturers site we where building Capacitive Discharge electronic ignition systems for our first cars in our spare time as projects. We all the facilities to hand with a winding shop to make us transformers and all the other parts. We were building ones which could generate 3 inch sparks but this did limit the revs by the size of the capacitor. Great fun and we were causing lots of noise in the test bed area! Prior art is any evidence that your invention is already known.
"Prior art does not need to exist physically or be commercially available. It is enough that someone, somewhere, sometime previously has described or shown or made something that contains a use of technology that is very similar to your invention."
During the 1970’s i was building field bikes with my son. One such was based on a bsa b31 frame and triumph 110 engine.
Now i dont need to tell anyone how lousy the triumph electrics were in general. However the one good thing was an uncontrolled alternator which ran at crank speed. So in the shed i turned out a dual contact breaker low voltage distributor, giving a coil for each cylinder. Then realising the limitations of standard kettering ignition i plummed for transistor amplifiers on the contacts.
However not being happy with the fact less energy is given to the spark the higher the revs go(a function of charge time).
I decide to feed the coils with constant current instead, the alternator being uncontrolled would give higher voltage at higher revs,perfect ! I stored the energy in an electrolytic capacitor 70 volts working and 3000 mfd.
Constant current was via whats known as emmiter followers these transistors also switched the ignition pulses, win ,win.
Needless to say it performed like a rocket and no missfires. The down side was it gobbled plugs monthly, but it was great fun.
Thanks for the history, love these stories
Ahhh. Who here remembers Mallory 4 lobe distributors for V8's? In my limited experience what I worked out was that once you have enough spark to do what you need it to, then you don't need to have any more. Excessive spark energy in my experience reduces reliability. That said I've seen motors that load up on fuel at an 1100rpm idle speed, idle perfectly, and stable at 750rpm with just a change of ignition system. The greatest gains from ignition systems that I've noticed, outside of rpm potential, are often in part throttle operation, and drivability. Just my personal experiences. Great stuff David. Regards Greg
Thank you Legend for sharing your knowledge! The fine details make all of the difference.
Thanks again DV I bought several of your books but that was a long time ago before these phones were out now I get to just pull you up I'm still buying books though keep up the good work
Always good info coming from u David I think I can design so many better things. Than what the market has but I'll keep them for private use as I'm just not liking the big tech and corperatesided of this world at the moment. Keep up the good work.
Such a wealth of knowledge, thank you for sharing!
Nicola Tesla did a lot of work on mechanical spark gap including magnetic spark quench to have a short fast spark discharge and in oil spark quench, Nicola was the first to work in high frequency electricity DC, and at High voltage this created scalar energy. 😊
Nikola Tesla made a million volts of electricity and could light bulbs a mile away without wires
His Tesla Coil is the same Coil in a car transforming 12 volts to 70,000 volts that spark today's car engines
Happy Holidays! I understand everything what You are saying, because I start my journey in the "motor" world in my childhood. I have VW Golf 2 very old, which is tuned with electronic combustion system and I use NGK V-Line spark plugs now with groove at the central electrode and yes - it`s something similar what You sad about "hot edges"... and my V-Line spark is "puffy" and wide in dimensions. I am very happy with this spark plug and these are the second 4 spark plugs (first 4 go bad after 30 000 km). Thank you! Happy New Year!
Regarding split fire plugs. I've found a noticeable increase in power by installing "Screaming Eagle" split fire plugs in my 80 CI Harley Davidson Evolution engine. My guess is that the ground strap split must have somehow unshielded the spark a bit better than a conventional plug.
The Screaming Eagle was nothing more than a conventional Autolite plug with the split strap. Now I was running a single fire multi spark discharge (very early version) on this bike, no waste spark ignition.
I bragged to my buddy who had a AMF Harley shovel head, and he didn't believe me, always had his faith set in Accel plugs. One day he showed up to my house on his bike & told me that he had fouled his plugs & went to buy new ones, but the dealership only had Screaming Eagle plugs. He couldn't believe the power increase. He was running conventional points and a waste spark ignition.
They were pretty pricy in the early 90's but only had to buy 2 so it wasn't too bad.
Thank you for the information Sir!
I learned long ago that "up to" actually means "less than."
Up to means The max someone has made vs all the rest. U can make "up to 30mpg" meaning the right set on conditions you can make that. So your welcome. Glad I could clear that up for u bud.
@ABs70nova you wasted all that time to say the exact same thing and you think it made you sound smart.
I sure would like to modify some of the spark plugs I have like you did. I would like to see a photo to help me.Thanks for the videos.
The submerged plug in oil test is interesting ...if the oil is used.
I made sparkplug pressure cells (with visible window, pressure gauge) to help evaluate ignition and plug while under 120 PSI. Insight was provided to stick with HEI run on 14.4 Volts, and well side-gap. Trad plug, only because the ideal plug would cost development money. Ideal being no GND strap, and natural side gap with capacitive area to promote the long spark. Geez coaxial sheild wires and plugs (aviation) seal the joules deal.
Excellent information, you really help us low dollar racers. We can't afford to throw money at a problem or hire a high dollar builder. We can think our way through things if we have foundational knowledge. Do you have any thoughts on spark plug indexing? I do it out of habit, but can't say if there's any true value to it. Thanks David 😊
@David Vizard: Why not showing the drilled spark plugs and how you did it. Must have been hard to find such a tiny drill and drill it straight down.
What about Golden Lodge British made spark plugs which are common in Alfa Romeo's?
These have no regular ground electrode but little stumps on the side.
I always swap out my spark plugs with some copper plugs, then change them out during my summer oil change every 2-3years.
Unless I can’t find one for the application, Like the 3.6L Pennstarstar V6 in my Durango. 😢
But this leads me to a question, i’ve seen some people on the Internet talking About. when used in some of these new were coil on plug applications.
Some people are saying that you really shouldn’t run copper spark plugs because in some cases the copper is literally melting. And there are some pretty nasty pictures out there too.
Now I’m starting to wonder if they should have gone one or two heat ranges colder because the energy being transferred through the electrode he ignition system was designed to work around the platinum or Iridium spark plug that has more resistance.
But then I have a contradictory thoughts that say if the ignition system was turned up enough to hurt the bare copper then wouldn’t that have shortened The lifespan of the other spark plugs? But they are still going well over 100,000 miles, Like when they were introduced with the older ignition systems designed to run our old copper plugs. Back when they first started claiming they could run 100,000 miles. And they are still doing that today with the newer coil unplug applications.
When I get into a loop of proving and disapproving my own theories, it’s a never ending circle.
What’s your thoughts on it? And if you have another thought for me to chew on for a while. Then I’ll gladly except that too. 👍🏻
Could be wrong but but it seems Sir David does not answer any questions in the comments .
The most interesting plugs I've played with lately are the Bosch +4's which work really well in centrally located 4 valve engines. Not so great in 2 valve wedge heads though. Anyhow...taking out a set with about 50,000 miles and looking at the electrodes showed one to be much more worn than the other 3.....another with some wear and the remaining 2 electrodes looking like new. The ceramic surrounding the center fine wire electrode clearly showed tracks mostly going to that one worn ground and much weaker ones to the others corresponding well with the observed wear.
This got me to wondering just WHY would the spark choose that one electrode over the others? The only thing I can think of is that the spark jumps to that electrode easier...and the only way that can happen...being that all are the same material and distance...is that whatever is between ground and center is more conductive. The only thing in the chamber that is conductive is the fuel vapor so it looks like the plug automatically fires the most conductive path which also lights more fuel more efficiently.
Full power WOT doesn't seem to make a lot of difference what plug design you use...and this has been shown countless times by dyno runs, but my testing showed an absolute superiority in the +4 design at light throttle. Holding a set manifold vacuum level and then driving up a long grade the +4's always got to the top at a higher speed than the comparison NGK stock electrode version. I do believe it's because at light throttle the mixture density is weak and the stock plug can light only the fuel that is in or near the gap where the +4's consistently light the charge better by choosing the optimum spark path. This results in a little more power at the same light throttle setting which translates into a bit better fuel economy.
Thank you for the knowledge
May be you can make a video on how to prep a spark plug for the best results. Thanks !
My first car was a 61 MG midget that I paid a whopping $100.00 for. The guy I bought it from said it's not like a chevy that's way more forgiving and carefree. Well the car look so pretty that I bought it anyway. He was right, I spent more time under it than in it.
When I switched to Iridium plugs on a couple of different cars the power output increase was noticeable, but also the fuel economy on my truck improved a lot. I went from 18 mpg to 21+ mpg with the Iridium plugs, and like I said the power output difference was noticeable while driving. I don't know what the power difference actually is, but the fuel economy was easy to measure. Someday, I'd like to put the truck on a dyno with the two different plugs to actually measure the difference.
Iridium has one advantage: It lasts longer. That's it. It's a harder metal, and resists erosion better in the combustion chamber. It also has one disadvantage: It has a higher electrical resistance. It will, in theory, cause a slightly smaller spark but probably immeasurable. I suspect your old plugs were just eroded to hell and anything new would've made a difference.
@@Joe4USMC I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of the two different plugs, but the engine was a new rebuild with brand new plugs and only about 1,000 miles on it, so worn out plugs were not the difference. The Iridium plugs have a very thin electrode though, so perhaps that is playing a role. I also switched to Iridium plugs on another engine that I built from all new parts, and I found the same thing happened. Definitely felt like more power, and the mileage improved a lot. Two different engines in two different cars, a brand new engine and a fresh rebuild with new plugs on both. One may be a fluke, two is not yet a trend, but there is something different with them, and it's not just the material. I think the material allows them to change the electrode design in a way that make it perform better.
great aprk plug tech ! just awesome
I remember well that era about transistor cdi ignition in Australia 🇦🇺
Dear Sir Mr Vizard, how many Joules of energy (per pulse) is enough in order to burn all the fuel - air mixture, in the combustion chamber, let say in a 100mm diameter piston head? As i understand, the advance timing of firing before the TDC, is heavily affect the results. Also the gas - to - air mixture has effect on this. And please make a comment on multi - spark ignitions technology. Before some years i was in task to design an electronic Ignition. Thanks In advance. Antony Theodorakis.
It’s nice to know even David watches Vice Grip Garage.
We had different resuls on the dyno. The E3 lost 10 hp on a circle track engine .
One myth I've heard from some local racers over the years concerning msd type ignition during my time in parts retail is - the ignition coil should be as close to the distributor as possible with the shortest coil to distributor cable as possible. Can address this Mr David? Thank you!
A ground connection of 1/2" wire mesh directly between the Coil and Engine block completes the HV spark circuit as effectively as is possible, especially better compared to a single automotive wire all the way over to the batteries negative terminal.
Hence they invented "Coil-Over" ignition transformers, which an almost ZERO spark and ground conductor length.
Right, I guess I should have asked about this concerning the ignitions other than HEI, my question was aimed at those such as msd type. There is a reason the drag racers and circle track racers aren't using HEIs, right, other than street stock class which are not as all out high performance with restricted carb, cam, heads, Intake and run hei ignitions
To be constructive regarding your information about sparkplugs and the differences to increase spark energy you should actually hold up a sparkplug and together with sparkplug in hand explain in practical terms what you're trying to convey to the viewer. A teacher uses a blackboard and so should you where an item is not available. Great information btw!
Because anyone that listens to these videos and is building and modifying engines isn’t familiar with a spark plug? and would benefit from being shown so they know what he’s talking about? 😂 Yeah I agree that for demonstrations on other more complex matters visible representation helps! but I’m sure most on this channel would know what a spark plug is
@@needmoreboost6369Needmorebrains, your comment is proof that you didn't comprehend what I said, nor did you pay any attention to what Mr. Vizard was trying to explain. He didn't discuss what a sparkplug is, he was actually talking about the complex differences in each sparkplug design contradicting your own statement. On top of that you surmise that everyone watching this video is an engine builder? Wrong again! if that were the case I doubt he'd have enough viewers to warrant making a video. I like watching boxing but I don't need to be one to enjoy watching it. Here's the most valid point refuting your statement, you're watching a video on UA-cam where you get to learn from both watching and listening to what is being presented on any subject in the world. If UA-cam was only an audio format I wouldn't be here. One more final thought, Mr. Vizard asks for viewers to comment about his content and to express any ideas how to make it better. I don't recall commenting on your videos. From what I glean from your comment is that you take offense when someone expresses a valid idea directed to the content creator even when its non of your damn business.
Yes indeed mr. Vizard should show us more actual content like the drilled plugs, cut through leads, measured thickness and how he did it.
And where is the story when using infection and ECU's?
nail it till the points float, shift it till you run out of gears!! 😁🤠
Me Comment before watching; GM HEI has the variable dwell chip within to properly charge the COIL for best joules across to the secondary vs RPM. Not aware of any better dwell- coil combo for the cost. The modern Analog CD capactive discharge (mostly 2-stroke engines) is most capable if we could have the coils optimized for V8 use, or waste-spark. I'm not at Coil on plug yet.
Just thinking out loud! Can we se one of your builds up and performing
E3 plug electrode geometry is designed to merely compensate for the fact that the ignition system can't generate a high enough voltage to jump an 0.010 in. plug gap, which is the optimum plug gap.
Hello David, just wondering if U have Considered testing the Brisk Evo Plug for N/A Engines & there ×2 different Evo Plugs for either 10 lbs or 30 lbs Boost . Cheers 🍻 Robert Australia 🇦🇺
Fascinating.
The great thing about electronic ignition over points in the 70s was they were a great order of magnitude more reliable than points.
There are Mopar factory ignition boxes made in the first part of the 1970s that could still be working fine today, if only you could find an original car with them in. In other words the reluctor, pickup and ignition box could potentially outlive the rest of the car even if the coil and distributor wore out.
Incredible reliability all said and done. Of course those boxes failed as did the pickups but for the most part they were extremely reliable.
We call those "points". :-)
@David Vizard: What size drill did you use to drill these described holes into the spark plug electrodes?
How do you find these extended nose plugs? I'm sure my parts department will not have a clue what I'm talking about😏 and how do I know the plug is not too long for my engine M111 just measure it I suppose from the top of the piston, is there any disadvantage it being close to the piston?
Thank you for this.
So you used a transistor, and a denounce circuit, ? Maybe a Schmidt trigger I think it's called, I have only recently gotten into electronics, and how they work, I haven't thought about using a electronic assisted points ignition, you can possibly drop the points voltage to 3.3 or 5volts with very little current, and the electronics do the heavy lifting, you got me wanting to build a ignition system now! Haha, to power a MOSFET gate takes basically zero current to switch the boot strap resistor to keep it off, pulls more current , still micro amps ,
I put a new set of points in my 72 Nove Ss and it would not start so I put the old ones back in and it run so the new one was defective. Blue streak which at the time the best got another one at auto parts store and they were good
My experience with the e3 sparkplugs in 2 different vehicles were they only lasted a couple of months before they started missing and the engine was breaking up. HP tv ran them on a dyno and found hp and mileage out of them so I bought them. Absolute pieces of crap unless you replaced them all the time, but they were very expensive.
jisracing997 I agree, I had issues on a 1979 Cadillac, that they would foul out on number 8 cyl. after about 2 months. The factory AC Delco plugs lasted 2 years before they would foul out. Total pieces of junk.
@@davidcollis4758 The Denso plugs I put in after those are still in there on both machines.
Playback speed 1.25 helps, but he is still the Abe Simpson of motorsport
Someone should have told you by now, but "lightning" is a bolt of electricity, whereas "lightening" is to reduce weight 😉.
had a meter with dwell years ago, can't remember what happened to it. maybe lost in a move
The last Kettering system (I'd forgotten that name until watching this video) I ever used was replaced by a Hall effect sensor with a kit built CDI. The good thing about the kit was that it provided a wheel with magnets that slipped onto the distributor shaft and there were different kits for 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines. I used a performance coil and opened the plug gap a little and never had a problem with spark as long as I used that car only needing to swap rotor, cap and plug leads.
If I remember correctly it used MOSfets which were still fairly rare at the time though I don't believe that the benefit was that much since even the 2N3055 could easily handle the frequency required at any sort of RPM the engine could handle.
*Great observation. Long live the 2N3055, the universal power switching transistor. Cheers!*
Hello Mr. Vizard, you didn't say anything about plug indexing. Also you implied the iridium plugs would not make as much power as a conventional plug. (They they are used for longevity, not performance or economy.) Why do you say this? Also why do cold spark plugs kill gas mileage? In my experience with Cleveland Fords, the cooler heat range of the plug made a very significant increase in power. So much so that I'd pull the "hot" plugs out on Friday and put the cold ones in and then put the hot ones back in Sunday afternoon. It was the cheapest power I ever found. But I had to do that because if I ran the cold plugs driving to work fuel economy was just dismal. Thank you for all your advice, experience and knowledge.
back in my oval track days, our engine builder ran multiple dyno runs with different plug indexing. Results - less then 1 HP and 3 ft/lbs of torque making the point of indexing plugs with a quality ignition system not worth the effort.
I recently watched 2 video's showing the actual dyno runs on a modern LS/Vortec based 5.3, which backed up what we found 20 plus years ago.
There are other areas better spent timewise, then wasting it indexing plugs.
But as a old Veterinarian told us one day relating to horse supplements, "If it make YOU feel better, do it, it is not going to hurt the horse, but it is not going to help it either. Spend your money somewhere else!"
Thoughts on the Brisk Silver LGS plugs?
guess that's me drilling and filing plugs NYE. Mr Irving missed a trick there.
Thanks!
22:40 That is not actually correct. The spark jumps from the corners because that is where the charge concentrates not because it is the hottest point. If that were true then when the plug is out and cold the spark would jump randomly from any surface.
It is the electrical pressure that forces the electrons to congregate at any projection so that is where the charge is highest, hot or cold. It just so happens that those same corners do get hotter but that is not the cause of the charge concentration.
Yes, I also didn't understand this point. It is school physics. I think high temperature is just the consequence of what you said(current heats points of charge concentration). Also, because of thermal conductivity, any sharp corner is hotter than bulk material.
What adout cablea
thanks D
So awesome when I do the performance budget build for the 305 in my 91 Camaro I am so going to do that spark plug mod.
David, if you are copying the videos from David Vizard Performance channel, you should know you never answer the "how I got the best power sparks" in those videos. Please review. Part three never added. - Regards
David, great information but maybe speed up the presentation and get to the point faster. This video could be shortened to 10min and still deliver all of the relevant info. You'll get more subscribers, more views, more likes. There are youtubers out there that have little to offer in terms of substance but they are entertaining to watch as they stumble through their automotive misadventures (just as an example, please don't copy their format)
Have you any experience with pre-chamber ignitions, as are currently in use in F-1?
The 4 cylinder 1255/1296 cc 1968 Renault Gordini R-1135 engine had a Hemi-Head (with big and close together valves) with a "Pre-Combustion" chamber that fed 2 ports, and that car won the World Rally championship. The Gordini cylinder head: i.pinimg.com/236x/df/d9/03/dfd9031a0255582d1255f7938c14ed7f.jpg
Closeup of the 1968 Gordini Head: i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/fe/dd/b8feddb19fae07b8d2104c5f900748ac.jpg
Nice!
@@joeteejoetee thanks for sharing. That looks like a great flowing head too!
Tack!
Could you comment on this? I once used a "judson magneto" on my 340 Dart Swinger. Mt et's dropped from 13's to low 12's gained 1000 rpm my mpg went from 18 to 21. Big drawback was back in those days when we had copper spark plugs they only lasted 3 days on the street before the tips were completely burned off. I want to try it on iridium plugs as of late. Again. Now i heard that this was made to start engines with wet spark plugs or "flooded". Thinking of sending my ignition out to cryo like other race teams. What do you say??
I would love to meet you guys
Thanks
What about the Fox Mustang TFI system?
gofastforless has a recipe for a points triggered TFI system. It is a very nice upgrade for old points distributors.
Correction: 0.100 in. plug gap.
I know it's not the side of things you usually look at, but I've had serious motorcycle racers tell me that copper plugs make a hair more power than iridium. Is that something you've seen? Iridium lasts far longer obviously.
Silver has the highest electron flow rate
From my experience and testing that I've done on the dyno over the last 15 years, this only applies to non-resistor style plugs. For plug with built in resistors, there is VERY little difference in performance when comparing iridium to copper to silver, etc.
All plugs use a copper core." Copper" plugs are nickel plated, Iridium plugs have Iridium tips and Platinum plugs have Platinum tips. There's nothing good about copper plugs.
@@benmopar Nothing to do with flow rate. A sharp point makes the best spark at the lowest voltage. It's well known by anyone who uses a welder.
@@1magnit silver sets records in Pro Stock
prior art > E3
Increase capacitor plate area will fire much better: bigger dia post and bigger area GND ring. Platinum tip would be the anti-thesis to the long spark under compression.
*lightning
Had to rewind 5 times to realize what a trans sister was
Har.
For the one responsible for assembling these UA-cam contents...please invest a little time in spell check (lightning). This appears to be a standing problem and cheapens the content presentation. David will not be with us forever and he deserves better. Thank you for your time David.
Rick, Now Marvins gone I am totally responsible for spelling - I was not good even before brain surgury!!
@@DavidVizard Understood David...wish I were there to help when needed.
YT seems to be doing other shady things as well. It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. Wait for the con artist to start showing up saying "text me on WhatsApp" and whatever the other one is. They're on Hoonigan all the time.
Dave, is already known for his creative Spelling. It’s his creativity.
Spelling was just made up and changed only a few generations ago.
David’s older than u
Why nag his spelling
On something that’s all made up.
When he goes out of his way to share information.
That you got.
Despite spelling he successfully communicated.
That’s more than most people these days can do with perfect spelling.
I don't learn NOTHING at all from these videos!!!! A BUNCH OF TALKING🤦♂️💯
if your facility is rated TS, then why the F#$% would you talk about your security, unless you are lying. People without clearance talk about having clearance, those that do, don't talk about it.
Lol..he's talking about the 1970s .
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks!