I understand there many victims in their culture, but Jim Bob truly sucks. He basically had all the power in that family and chose to cover things up and harm his children. There are just some people in the world that should never even be in charge of a paper clip let alone multiple people's lives
I gasped out loud, and felt a deep catharsis both for her, and for me. That’s the exact sort of thing I wish I could have said to my abusers’ supporters. So unbelievably proud of and pained for her.
@@Mama_Bear524 yeah :( My dad was an amazing person and I’m so grateful to have had him even if I wish it could have been for longer. Everyone deserves a dad that loves them and looks out for them but so many don’t get that :(
I remember after I was abused in school, my father's response was, "You're just bound and determined to embarrass me, aren't you?" I learned at a very early age that he was never going to stick up for me, and I have nothing but sympathy from Jill.
Mine was too busy pulling every drawer out and strewing my clothes all over my room, then screaming and calling me crazy for hours. That was the most triggering word for decades, "crazy". He even figured out how to dismantle the garage door opener or take one tiny piece from my engine so I had to stay & listen. Good fathers are SO important. If you're not married yet, and you want to marry & have kids, make certain you marry a patient man who understands kids are sponges. Who just need to feel safe.
I think Jill is in that weird limbo where she's realized the beliefs she was taught and the indoctrination of her family isn't true, or right but can't let it go in full.
“I would rather her have a good memory than a shitty one” is a pretty good way to summarize the book. Personally, I think that Jill hasn’t fully accepted the breadth of the abuse that she experienced, but if she’s happy with where she’s at then that’s all that matters. It’s her journey to own as she sees fit.
Well said. It’s never going to be perfect. It’s a lifetime of unraveling. That abuse doesn’t just leave you. But she’s so far ahead of where she was. She’s badass. Someone to be admired and so happy she has her husband.
Yup, and it'll be a lifelong one. She's grown so much in such a short amount of time. She's the scapegoat out of all those kids. That's a lot to process. It'll be cool to see how much she grows in the next decade if she chooses to show us. And how exciting that she finally gets that choice.
I think that part of coming to terms with abuse is that you are allowed to have some of those positives memories. I remember sometimes laughing and having a nice time with my mother who was also very abusive. She could have learned skills and became a better person because of the abuse, but that is because she was trying to survive and fit into her dysfunctional family. I'm sure she really loved bonding with her siblings. It was just unfair to her as a child to have that as an expectation. She should be taking full credit for her good qualities, because she grew those with very little help from her baby machine "parents". Her siblings that weren't evil can get some credit too maybe.
@@spOOkytimesI don't think most of her siblings were evil, except her older brother. I think they're mostly good, if flawed, people who grew up in a shitty, abusive environment and didn't get an education beyond cult brainwashing. Then they mostly married very young to other people with the same upbringing, and so it becomes normal and they don't realise there was anything wrong. Jessa, Joy, Jinger and the rest are victims too.
Right on. I had a tough upbringing and I'm just now learning to re-frame some stuff in ways that makes me feel more empowered. I still know the truth. I still maintain no contact and always will. But, in my own head, I kinda let myself sort of.... let the memory go fuzzy and try to spot any part that could be somehow seen as positive and let that be seen clearly. Helps me survive each day. I know what's real. But a little narrative change can help me get through the day.
I'm absolutely horrified that Jill and Jessa's abuser was IN THE SAME ROOM during that interview! The fact he had a smile on his face should remove all doubt (from the very few that still do) that he's an absolute monster P.S. I got the biggest smile on my face twice: first when she questioned what right Jim Bob had asking about HER uterus and second when she finally called him out for defending her MONSTER of a brother! Best of luck to Jill!
I knew they were forced to say all that. I knew they were abused and were forced to pretend everything was ok. It felt like there was a metaphorical gun to their heads. But I didn’t know it was Josh. Just sick. Those poor girls.
@@ZannaDArcy I think that just shows the power Jim Bob wields over the conservative media. He may be "kinder and gentler" about it than Dumpf but he still wields it
I think this is what Jill meant when she referenced Esther from the old testimate: Esther was very, very, VERY brave and what she did was scary. She risked her life but she ultimately saved a lot of people from not just oppression, but death. She risked EVERYTHING and could have lost everything in doing so. Jill has lost a lot. Including most of her family. But she has also gained her voice, her liberty and her freedom. Esther's life was not easy. It was painful. I think it's been the same for Jill.
I was parentified as a child and I also thought it was very fun. My sisters were born when I was in 3rd and 4th grade (one each year), and they were the best baby dolls. I can understand why she looks at that fondly. HOWEVER, when I was tired or needed a break from helping out, I was made to feel selfish. I remember very clearly when my parents needed to go in to town for grocery shopping, asking if they could take the girls because I was tired. My dad was so disappointed and told me that taking care of family should never feel like work. My son is the same age I was when I used to babysit an infant and a toddler, and I barely trust him to reheat leftovers. 😅
That’s awful I’m so sorry. “Interesting” how your dad said that. Why is it supposed to be “not work” for you. The sister, the child, who didn’t choose to have these kids, but it’s so much work for your parents they had to make their kid do the work? These people are always such hypocrites it’s unbelievable.
@@Mama_Bear524 Thank you for the validation. Luckily for my sisters, my family moved away from our church circles. I never really got an acknowledgment or apology, so I’m still working through that. Eventually, they paid it forward when I ended up as a single mom with two toddlers. (Getting married at 20 was not kind to me.) Plus, my sisters have also been an amazing help when they choose to. And I’m glad they have the choice. Everyone is a victim in fundamentalism, and I’m glad we have broken the cycle.
The fact that they not only forced them to make that interview defending their abuser but then he was in the room as the interview was happening?!??? Shame on the parents but also shame on the tv station allowing this to happen.
Jim Bob and Michelle think Josh is the victim. I bet they secretly think those children Josh molested ‘tempted’ him and that ultimately it’s their fault. They won’t admit that, but that’s how they think. Michelle’s darling son could never be wrong, and Jim Bob couldn’t have possibly created a monster because the sun shines out of his ass
I think I was among many others who thought this interview was just pr damage control for TLC. Jim Bob, Michelle, and TLC were once again turning these poor girls who were victims into their pawns. It was gross. If a victim wants to forgive their abuser, that is their right, but the court of law does not take that into consideration in these cases and Josh still deserved to rot in a prison cell regardless.
I went to a fundie elementary school and the whole “thoughts are sins” thing really messed me up, because I developed OCD from a young age. Dwelling/obsessing over thoughts is pretty much the hallmark of OCD, so I was convinced I was going to hell. Do not teach your children this garbage.
Yes, I also have OCD and this destroyed me mentally. I developed scrupulosity (religious OCD) because of it. The idea that thoughts are just as bad as actions...it took me years to begin to unlearn this and it's still messed me up.
Omgosh, YES. I listened to a clinical deep dive on OCD maybe a couple years ago and the connection between it and religion seemed soooo apparent to me. Not to say anyone religious will inevitably develop it, but that I could see how habits like confession or defining missteps as "sin" which we need cleansing from are just... asking for trouble.
Oh. Hi. I also have OCD and the whole "thoughts are deeds" set me up for some terribly traumatic experiences. Telling kids that is abuse that sets them up for further abuse.
YESS! I wish more people talked about extreme religious upbringing and its correlation with OCD! It's something I'm really digging into during mt deconstruction the past few years!
I just finished the book last night and I’m so glad she went into so much detail about Jim Bob’s financial abuse. I hope this gives her siblings the courage to speak up and get their money too
And there's also the fact that the contract he had the kids sign for that lump sum is not a legal contract. Legal contracts do not allow for "in perpetuity." There is always an expiration date. It might 100 years from now, but there has to be an expiration date. But I bet he's banking on the fact that none of his kids know anything about contract law. After all, he knows just how little of an education they received. And he knows that their rules about the internet greatly reduces the chance that they'll ever learn about it.
It's so sad to think that all her hard earned money went to fund her pedophile brother's lifestyle and career. He was clearly the favorite until the bitter end.
I have what’s probably a dumb question/assumption , but here goes… I’m assuming Jim Bob likely claimed all his kids for tax credits. If you do that, and then also “pay” them with that weird itemized list the way he did… one has got to cancel out the other, is that right? Could the IRS get him for that? (I’m sorry if this isn’t clear - I’m an idiot when it comes to taxes.) Anyway, I thought the book was great and I totally agree - I hope it opens the eyes of the siblings to how they’ve been wronged.
@@jennl3404 No, claiming them as dependents on his taxes would only mean that they couldn't claim themselves on their taxes. I actually ran into that the first time I filed taxes. Dad claimed me out of habit. I claimed myself. And the IRS was like, "uh, one of you two needs to drop the claim."
Derek isn’t the greatest of people but he sounds like a fucking amazing husband. He’s a hero for being by her side every step of the way and I genuinely respect that so much, even if I mad hate the bigotry. I hope both of them can keep growing and finding strength together.
I agree that he seems like a great husband, however as a man roughly the same age Derick was when he became prayer partners with Jim Bob and started courting Jill, I can’t help but side eye his thought process, values and intentions during that time. I volunteered for half a year at a Christian monastery (that’s not nearly as extreme in regards to tradition as the Duggars culture) and the patriarchal structures were off putting to me personally, which leads me to question men who embrace and endorse these institutions.
@@milofu2457 I think Derick was looking for a father figure after his own passed away and, for whatever reason, latched to JB. Thankfully, it bit JB in the ass.
@@milofu2457it seems as though Derrick has deconstructed a lot of that. None of the Duggar girls were allowed to date outside of those traditions. I wonder, hope, and assume that Derrick is on the same deconstruction journey Jill is on and while it is okay to chastise him for his current beliefs about the lgbtq+ community, I don’t think it is fair to judge him for formerly holding the values he was raised in. I’m glad he and Jill met each other, it seems as though meeting each other is what brought them both out of this crazy world they were in.
He has been quiet as far as his worst takes as of recent, which doesn’t seem to be his nature. I hope that means he has re-evaluated some of his views but knows he doesn’t know enough to say anything yet. If someone learns homophobia is wrong but doesn’t fully understand why because they have lack of experience with the LGBT community and what they do not want outsiders saying, addressing past mistakes can be scary because you don’t know if you are going to fuck up even more. They also may both not be ready to alienate their more mainline Christian followers by addressing things like this. He has deconstructed a lot of the sexism he learned in recent years. So at least he is willing to learn. But I notice even when he has addressed that, it’s less of a ‘I was wrong for thinking like this and I’m ashamed of my actions’ situation and more of a ‘oh no. No, she is my equal. The church calls men the head of the household but that doesn’t mean anything. I love and respect her. She can wear what she wants. I’m not like her father.’ So I suspect he never really learned how to address his faults and properly apologize for them, which is common with men, even in mainline Christianity.
I appreciate Jill's honesty and courage. And I completely agree that no one ever has to forgive their abuser. I also want to add that if forgiving your abuser helps bring you internal peace, you can forgive them without letting them back into your life. Forgiveness isn't the same as erasure. It's more like letting go. But again, no one ever has to forgive their abuser.
Thank you for saying this. I was abused and the idea of “forgiving” him is atrocious. But letting go of the anger and hate and fear is a much better feeling. I’m going to try doing this instead of trying to force myself to forgive him. Thank you, friend.
Agreed. When people push forgiveness it feels like a further revictimization. Like, again, it’s on the victim to do the heavy lifting, or else feel guilty. I don’t know how to properly explain it but it’s basically how I’ve felt.
True. My family tends to use the word "forgiveness" as a synonym for "pretend nothing happened for our convenience". So it's a loaded term for me. But I think we could choose to define forgiveness as letting go but not going back, and that seems fine. I'm just so happy other people are pointing out how toxic the language around forgiveness can be. I felt so alone for so long
"A thought becomes a sin when you dwell on it." Wow Jen, I think... I think you may have just solved half my mental problems just by debunking that. This channel is WAY better than the unlicensed Christian therapy my parents spent my college fund on!
Ikr? That was so helpful to me. I was raised in Christian Science that teaches the same thing tho on top of that not just thinking something “sinful” = sin but also for example thinking about something scary could will that into the world too. I know that’s not true now but it’s good to be reminded that it’s not true and that wording specifically helped
My dad financially abused me and I learned about it when I couldn't get financial aid for grad school; I turned him into the IRS. It made me so happy when I knew he was suffering. So when I read that part of the book, I stood and cheered for Jill.
I'm disabled was not able to get social security due to my mom's income. Now as an adult I don't have a conservatorship but my bank accounts are under my mom's name and my life insurance too so I don't really have any assets of my own. I'm not able to work I have been trying to get SSI for so many years now it has been difficult. Now I'm pregnant thank God it's going well.
Jill didn’t say anything that didn’t need to be said. She simply set the record straight about matters that were already out there. She was not vindictive. She simply told her truth. Good book. It’s such a shame because if Jill was my daughter I would be so proud. And she has a father who considers her a failure. In what world.
Jim Bob is projecting. He is a massive failure as a husband, father, friend, and even at being a decent person, let alone based on his messed up standards that expect religious perfection.
@@spOOkytimesWell said! I was thinking the same thing. He knows deep down that he's nothing but a spineless fraud and pedo sympathizer (if not a pedo himself...Josh learned it somewhere) Jill is the scapegoat of the family, which is sad but must be freeing for her at the same time.
"you treat me worse than my pedophile brother" what a mic drop moment but also must have been such an aweful realization to her that this was the truth that her dad really did treat Josh better than her even after everything
Absolutely incandescent with rage over what an absolute scumbag Jim Bob has been and frankly continues to be to his children. Jill seems like she’s made a ton of progress and I’m really happy for her. I hope that she can eventually accept that her father is not a good person. I know from experience that it’s really hard to give up on someone you love, though.
I think it is hard with parents, too, because we worry that maybe we have those same horrible traits or behaviors without realizing and are afraid of being hypocritical.
@mj6962 So you're mad that your work situation is so shit and you're so unhappy with it that you lash out at other people whose jobs allow them to have headphones in while they work, because you can't? Is that it? Or you're forever unemployed and bitter? Whatever your personality flaw that makes you act like that is, it's still not that person's fault. Lmao, sO iNsTeAd oF wOrKiNg yOu GoT pAiD tO LiStEn tO a BOoK??!🤡
THEY DID NOT EVEN GIVE HER MONEY FOR THE COPAY?! I nearly table flipped just hearing that. it's all awful, but that is just monstrous. They force her to film something private and then refuse to help her with the cost.
I always suspected that daddy Jim was a horrible person. I wonder what Michelle is really like. I imagine she has always done as she is told. My mother liked that show, but I could never stomach it. I have known people who were sweet to your face and stab you in the back. They are all holier than thou conservative “Christians” or cult members if you will.
Jill confirmed my headcanon that the women were being forced into filming their births. It makes me so sad cause I had health issues that I was coming to accept in private and someone in my family kept talking about the details to people I didn't even know. That was so hard, I can't imagined having to film and worry about how you look while going through serious pain. Especially as modest women.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That happened to me as well in my early 20s, when I was diagnosed with several severe chronic health issues. I have a large extended family and I know they care about me and wanted to know what was happening and I know my parents wanted people to talk to for emotional support as well, but it was frustrating to be the topic of gossip on social media (which I didn't even use) and hear my mom answering questions (incorrectly) on my behalf when people called. I was so sick and dealing with my life changing forever, worrying about medical bills and pain and what kind of future I could have, and my family was using me as an icebreaker topic with cashiers at the grocery store lol. I got to the point that I have no problem talking about myself now, but I think people really need space and time during high-stress, transitional periods in their lives -- whether it's birth, illness, marriage, etc.
I grew up Catholic/evangelical and I get incredibly uncomfortable just going to the doctor and discussing my body with them. I can’t imagine a fully entrenched fundie upbringing and then basically being told by your dad that you have to bare it all on TV, when birth can be an incredibly stressful and traumatic experience, let alone physically vulnerable.
Yeah, I also had a family member go around telling the entire family that I was pregnant before I even got a chance to. And she also shamed me for quitting my job soon afterwards. Fuck toxic families.
I experienced a lot of trauma throughout my birth, every time the doctor would check my dilated it felt like she was slicing up my cervix with a pair of scissors. Also they kept missing the spot for the epidural and I cried so hard my mask kept slipping off from being filled with tears and mucus. I can’t imagine then having a goddamn camera in my face as I hysterically screamed and cried…
ALSO, Jim Bob was calling her LIVING IN THE GIANT ROOM AT THE BIG HOUSE WITH HER SISTERS her "apartment" at the rate of $700 a month. While still a minor. She never lived in an apartment on her own. They estimated the worth of her sharing a bedroom with like seven other girls to be $700 😂
It was definitely a mindfuck for me when I realized that not only are the standards they apply to us harmful, they’re not even living up to their own rules. It’s so frustrating. Like I have to have a man in my life to “protect” me but they were actually the danger.
thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis. shiny happy people really helped me in my deconversion journey. religious fundies are full of sh*t, they only care about control. that's why their culture attracts, breeds, enables abusers.
I saw a twitter thread of discussion on Jill’s religious beliefs and how this shouldn’t matter and another person replied how it took decades just for them to leave. Jill telling Jim bob off was a moon landing moment for the girls in that cult .
Right?? These are kids who didn't read books or watch TV outside of their group's "approved" materials. For one of them to develop this much independent thought is, um, a testament to the inextinguishable human spirit
@@DizzyBusyfor real! they were so sheltered and incredibly limited in what they were exposed to/allowed to interact with, etc. so no wonder it took time to unlearn. some people are so heavily indoctrinated up until they're teenagers and had so much fear instilled in them as kids that i'm so impressed that some even leave those extreme beliefs at all
The trans stuff is just like the pants. These Christians don't *know* any queer/trans people. We got driven out of their churches explicitly so they wouldn't know us. And as long as they don't know us, they're just talking about an imaginary version of us as described to them by people who ALSO don't know us. I hope they'll eventually broaden their interactions enough to actually spend some time with trans people, because it'll go a long way.
@violetx9668, I often thought about that, as Jill seemed to distance herself. At 1st, I thought since her dad chose Derek for his daughter that it may not turn out best for her. Thankfully, I was wrong.
I really agree with you. Yes I also agree that he needs to get past the bigotry. But I am really impressed with who he has grown to be. I thought he was trash just hanging on for the fame and money but then I saw shiny happy people, and I realized that he is a really good person who really genuinely loves her and that the go fund me was because they weren’t getting paid. I thought really poorly of them at that time, and I just didn’t know. I just hope that these to grow out of the bigotry and realize that these are people just like them who have struggles and trauma just like them and deserve love and respect just like them.
I think it's awful that Jill and her sisters were re-victimized. If the story never gone out, Josh would still have been shamed. When the Ashley Madison Scandal broke, there was no denying his name was on the list of members. And then he paid for sex With a Stripper dancer. And it was out that he frequently went to those clubs. And then when he resigned from the FRC, he admitted to being addicted to pornography so he single-handedly brought down the Duggar family. And yet Jim Bob has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars 2 protect this useless son. And nothing to protect his daughters.
Agreed, I lay most of the blame on Jim Bob thou. If he had done the RIGHT thing by ALL of his children...gotten Josh PROPER treatment and held accountable and gotten his daughters into PROPER counselling if/when the In Touch shit hit the fan she may have been in a better mental space to handle it.
@@rebeccaabram2312Also if they had reported the abuse when Josh confessed, he would have been a minor. Then the report would have been part of his juvenile record and inaccessible by FOIA request. It all comes back to JB and Michelle being terrible parents.
It seems clear that Jim Bob only sees Josh as an extension of himself. Perhaps bc he was the firstborn? Maybe bc he sees more of himself in Josh than the other kids? Idk, but Jim Bob seems to feel…to an extent…the he is Josh and Josh is him - and it doesn’t seem to be that way with the other kids. The rest of the children he views as mere decorations to his life. Josh is the only one who he sees as a living, breathing, human. Which is ironic…considering how INHUMANE Josh actually is.
@@amberjulia123 I honestly believe its because he's the 'First Born Son' and Josh is most likely the ONLY kid JB himself actually bonded with as a parent.
It's clear to me in the light of the Franke crimes and the abuse revealed by Jill that minors of these"family" type vloggers and influencers need legal protection. Some kind of legislation or mandates. Since the parents obviously have no healthy boundaries and we as a public cannot protect the vulnerable children.
Absolutely. A few states and European countries have already started to pass laws to prevent the exploitation of children online by their own parents. That’s a step in the right direction. I mean, there are family vloggers who show their girls shopping for their first bra 😱😠, and talking about their periods and tampons. 🚫 What?! How is this okay? They are giving every predator on the planet the content they dream of. There are groups of pedofiles on the dark web who talk about these UA-cam channels and share time stamps of when a child’s body is exposed or their mouth is open. 🤮😵 Horrible. The majority of the views on these videos come from males over the age of 25. Sick sick sick. They are prostituting out their own children.
I 100% agree with you, though this is really interesting and complex from a legal standpoint. There are free speech and religious freedom arguments that wouldn't be applicable to a lay child actor. I imagine (and hope!) we start to see some of these lawsuits in the coming decades as the first gen of reality TV stars get the maturity and money to file them.
I so feel Jill on the first time she wore pants out. I'm EXMO and the first time I wore a top that showed my shoulders I remember adjusting the shirt to cover my shoulders in front of the butter cow at the state fair. Later my friends bought me a beer and someone got an amazing picture of me laughing in the sun shoulders out and beer in my hand. I took a deep breath and told her it's ok to post it. I looked so free and happy in that picture I couldn't hide it.
As someone who didn't realize they had grown up in an abusive family until I was 32, it definitely sounds to me like Jill doesn't yet have the distance/perspective/feeling of safety to recognize parts of her history as abusive yet. She's well on the way, and I'm very glad she's getting therapy and finding freedom in her new life. It is incredibly brave of her to write all this out and to be as honest as she is being. Speaking out against parents who have a huge presence is terrifying, and mine only has a presence in a church community, not a worldwide following because of a media conglomerate. As far as Jill fully recognizing the overbearing nature of JimBob and Michelle's parenting, the parentification and child exploitation she experienced, she's on the way. I will state again, feelings about what happened to you come up in their own time once the nervous system has achieved a sense of safety from those circumstances. It's weird with religious trauma. Certain things feel current for so very long and because it is 'normal' it can take quite a while to wake up to the reasons behind why your brain follows a certain programming. It's also quite hard to recontextualize your childhood as mostly (almost completely) negative. It requires a huge amount of identity work and self-compassion. I don't know if this is the same in IBLP, but in my childhood the word 'victim' had a massively negative connotation. People who called themselves victims were lazy, self-centered, delusional, all kinds of labels that really meant you weren't being a good Christian. All that to say, that Jill seeing herself as a victim of abuse in most of her childhood could take a lot of inner work for her to even be ready for.
Are you me?? Same. As an adult I’ve been unpacking the abuse I’d normalized my whole life until my early 30s especially since my mom died. It’s a lot! It’s really hard. And my brain just wants to be in denial about it but it makes it worse. So I have to face it. Ugh. Wishing you the best.
@@Mama_Bear524 I feel like this is an underrepresented experience. There's such a culture of avoiding criticism of parents, especially moms. The more people who speak up and can do so in varying degrees of publicity, the more accountability and healing we can all achieve. I'm sorry you share this experience, but I'm glad you could feel seen by my comment. All the best in your journey💙
Well said. And thank you for sharing your perspective from a similar background, it's helpful to hear from people who had similar experiences. I'm sorry for what happened to you, but it sounds like you are living a life free from those negative influences now. That must have taken a lot of work and bravery, and from one human to another, that's incredible and I am so glad for you.
@@rachelhuitsing1876 I am so sorry this happened to you. You deserve so much peace and happiness & are so very brave for sharing. Im lucky I heard some small part of your life & I want honor your story. It is the story of one of my parents ❤ sending so much love to you ❤❤❤
@@Mama_Bear524I am not sure if it matters to hear this, but I am so sorry that is happening to you. You have made it through so much & are so incredibly strong in a way no one should have to be. I thank you for sharing & I am sending so much love. You’ve helped me understand people in my life better ❤❤❤
As a parent, I cannot imagine exploiting my kid like that. My ten-year-old occasionally offers to pay for things with her savings account money because we've had her save up for things that she really wants that are more expensive, like a Switch, and she hasn't quite gotten the difference between her having to buy a gaming console with her own money versus her wanting us to fix the air conditioning in the car (old car, would cost more than car is worth to repair) and offering to help out with the money for it. I just remind her that it's mine and her dad's job to pay for stuff like that, and she doesn't owe us for providing essentials or even for fun stuff that we're happy to cover.
I remember having this fantasy when I was a child of getting rich someday, writing up an invoice for everything my parents had spent on me, writing a check and never speaking to them again. Because they did what Jim Bob did, holding everything they “gave” me over my head and reminding me every day what a burden I was to raise and how “poor” they were as a result (when they chose to send me to private school and get a piano and do things that made them look like good parents). And how everything was “sacrificed”for me. Until one day I realised I didn’t owe them anything and just walked away anyway.
She said her mom didn't want to film births but she allowed it for the show, "because it is their ministry." I ordered the book on Audible along with Jinger's book, yesterday. I listened to them both. Jill's book was life experiences, Jinger's was differentiating between IBLP and Calvinism. I did like the nod to the Free Jinger movement. Also Derick came in hard right after marriage about TLC money. If Jim Bob didn't prove himself to be such a pig, I would have at first thought he was trying to protect Jill's money from a man that they had collectively only known a few months. But the fact is Jim Bob was a huge pig, I also think Jim Bob gave his sons money from the beginning. I think he bought Josh's car lot, I think he bought John David's plane. He set each of those boys up financially. They also employed Ben, which I think is why Jessa cannot say anything against her father. I digress, but at first I could see a father being suspicious of a brand new husband so interested in his wife's income. Its clear to see almost immediately that is not the case. JB is just a selfish man that did not protect his daughters and has sold millions to protect his pedophile son. That alone says it all.
Wait, $80k for 7 years? That's a little over $11k a year. At a presumed 40 hours a week, that's less than minimum wage. Oh and it's a contract with a clause in it that isn't legally enforceable. And as it's a labor contract, that could result in the entire contract being null and void if challenged in court. FFS! I want to find Jill and Derek and tell them how badly they're being screwed and the fact that if they get a good lawyer, they can probably take Jim Bob (not TLC as their contract isn't with TLC) to court and win.
@@Nonameforyoudangitwhat kind of lawyer though? I'm an accountant and I currently only specialize in SEC reporting (not tax, not internal, not revenue, not fp&a, etc).... there's an even bigger world of specializations in law. Derek might not be cut out for a case like the one Jill would bring.
@elisabethscott67 I get it, but he certainly knows enough to seek out a contracts attorney to pursue the appropriate claims (fraud in the inducement would be just one of the claims). According to the book, they did pursue legal action and subsequently were awarded.
@@Pfpfpfpfpf2020I don't know what kind of lawyer Derek is, but litigation is long, painful, and expensive. A lot of people choose to avoid it for those reasons, even with legitimate claims. Additionally, there are statutes of limitations that likely have already passed before they knew they could have tried to sue.
I remember jill saying in shiny happy people that they thought they would be arrested for not following the contract… which of course also points to neglect in their education that they think that’s a thing that can happen for a civil issue . And also how that was used to manipulate and scare them
Joy Duggar and her husband released a Q&A video today. They said they will definitely be reading Jill's book and Joy said she supports her sister. They also said they're not in the IBLP. When they were dating, they decided they weren't going to follow that teaching after they got married. So... there's that!
Jill asking what right her father has to comment on her uterus is her basically grasping the pro-choice argument, even if she never quite comes to regard it that way or articulate such a position.
The filming of the births is just too far imo. I remember watching Anna’s births and labors and I think Jill had her first baby before I had mine. Once I had my own kids and actually experienced birth myself and just how vulnerable and exposed you feel and how intense and sometimes scary it is... I can’t believe someone from the camera crew didn’t ever stop and say “ok hang on let’s not film this part/let’s give them some privacy” (ahem, Anna pushing a baby out on the toilet). You have little to no control over what your body is doing or what you’re saying or sound like. It’s just such a private time. I actually had a doula who would say that the baby’s birth should be just as private as the baby’s conception lol. Anyway, I remain upset for those ladies that they had all that filmed 💔
Yeah it’s horrible that they filmed the births. Anna is so sweet - it’s clear that she is so in the clutches of this cult and her abusive in laws and husband. She’s probably scared to death to leave because she knows she will be broke with 7 kids.
I was part of a Duggar snarker community at the time and the number of people mocking Anna for giving birth on a toilet was horrifying. Like, that's what birthing feels like! It feels like you have to poo! And sitting upright is a much better position to birth in, vs lying flat on your back. Now that I know Anna was filmed when she really didn't want to, it makes it that much worse.
Knowing that I would sh*t on a table in front of other people during delivery is one of hundreds of reasons I have for not childbearing and it's probably higher on the list than it should be 🤣
I'll never forget Josh down there yelling push baby! He wasn't the least bit scared! He's a pervert! I hope that Josh gets his payback in prison! He will probably get himself hated for his attitude! His sick smile turns my stomach!
By forcing his kids to become child actors he really brought the threat of the sinful world inside for Jill it seems. Turning them being abused and manipulated by the parents into them being watched and preforming their obedience for the world. Seriously sick stuff and both Jim Bob and Michelle should be charged with child abuse.
@@helixmoore7636 yeah she’s less culpable but still culpable. As hard as it would have been she could have fought for her children to have rights and be protected instead of neglecting them, leaving them to parent themselves and ultimately forcing the girls into the same toxic paternalism that ruined her life and traumatised all the children especially the girls.
Quite apart from the insight this provides into the reality of their lives, the financial abuse and the IBLP, this book also provides valuable insight into how TLC handled all this. Yes, it’s TV, yes reality TV is never really real, and yes it’s a business, but what happened to ethical oversight and protecting the rights of the minors? Even if Jim Bob was ok with this way of doing things, TLC producers had the opportunity to place some boundaries. All this highlights a huge gap in the space of children’s rights (on TV and online, in family vlogging for example) and a gap in either regulations or enforcement of regulations.
💯- laws need to be in place to protect minors from exploitation, labor, and compensation for their labor. The thing is, minors cannot give informed consent. They are too young and inexperienced to know what they’re consenting to. The film and TV industry has long abused and exploited children. It’s time that it ends!!
The more I learn about TLC’s business practices, the more I wonder why the FTC isn’t at their door step. The adult children deserve to have their chunk of income via direct deposit, not funneled through a parent
@@camcat26 TLC must have good lawyers. Almost all of their content is made off the backs of vulnerable people. "Toddlers & Tiaras" and "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" alone should be a reasons they should have an ethics board to keep them under control.
THIS is why I side-eye any supposed "parental rights" bullshit. It's a means of denying the rights of children as individuals and allowing their parents to treat them more like property than as individuals. It leads to, excuses, and fosters the kind of abuse that the IBLP was built to enable.
Heck, I've struggled all my adult life to find licensed therapists who AREN'T Christian and who DON'T try to force religion into therapy. The fact that Jill was able to find a therapist who was Christian enough for her comfort is absolutely the least surprising thing about the entire story.
I’m a Christian therapist in training and bringing it into the session without invitation could threaten my entire career. It’s against the basic code of ethics. (As would be anti-religious sentiments with a religious client). I wonder if you leave in somewhere more conservative like the south? It wouldn’t be worth becoming a therapist where I live if I didn’t think I could follow that guideline. I’d never make it past licensing.
@andianderson3017 It happens everywhere. I live on the west coast and I went through three therapists because they used religion language (things like talking about a dead relative in heaven or God's purpose for me) after telling them I'm not religious. I think it was just an automatic thing because I know that's common speech in Christianity but I wasn't helping me at all.
It’s really kind of you to give them the benefit of the doubt, but nonetheless, it’s pretty brain dead for a counselor. We get A LOT of training in this. I guess I don’t know other state licensure requirements-but the ones I’ve heard all seem pretty high. I’m sorry they were so tactless, in any case. Sometimes I take it for granted that I was raised by a parent with a Master’s in Divinity and taught really complex theology from a lot of religions when I was young. My awareness is probably unusually high. I also lived in the Middle East where I did not want to get arrested for casual Christina references either. Ah well. I am sorry to hear this. I’m just seriously at a loss for how it happens. Even though I am devout in my faith, I think it’s a worse witness and critically unloving to ignore people’s boundaries and rights this way. It doesn’t generally result in conversions, just hurt and disrespected people. @@dreal2093
I'm annoyed how everyone is still giving Michelle a free pass. She is just as a guilty as Jim Bob. She didn't protect her children either but he's the only one being blamed for it. Michelle is also a horrible person but since she was quiet and the woman everyone acts like she didn't do anything wrong.
I do have *some* sympathy for the teenage Michelle, who(IMHO)was groomed by JB(he’s often been quoted as saying that after their first meeting, he prayed to be her “spiritual leader”). The adult Michelle, who failed to protect her daughters from their pedophile brother? Not so much.
@@Susannamfto me the end was chilling because even in the end Jim Bob was there for a picture and Jill instinctually knew that’s he wanted the picture.
I hope Jill and Derrick sue TLC and Intouch and make a big deal of this. Networks and producers have been exploiting and abusing children since the TV and movie industries began. There needs to be a reckoning for children! Children need rights - including when it comes to “influencers.”
No she did not invent the tater tot casserole. The casserole was first published in a recipe book in the 1930's. I'm so glad that is what I gained from this video. Love ya.
Under normal circumstances, you would be right. Unfortunately, he stands as the gatekeeper to a lot of the younger members of her family, as seen by him not allowing her over if he wasn't there, so she does need him in order to access them. He has created a really sick, twisted situation and I hope she, and her other siblings, realizes just how terrible a person he is in time and kick him to the curb because he doesn't deserve those wonderful grandparent moments.
“Funny” how Jim Bob says she’s embarrassing and shaming the family because of her nose ring and pants but Josh molesting his sisters is no biggie. Tells us all we need to know about him. And it was so obvious Michelle and Jim were not financially independent. That’s one reason I stopped watching. It was the unraveling of their fakeness and lies.
Wow. I had no idea it was this bad for Jill. I am proud of Jill. I left a cult with my two kids 20 years ago, and we lost everything. Our entire support system gone in a flash, because I was sinning by leaving my abusive husband. It takes extreme conviction and courage to pull yourself from the sticky hell of abuse, especially religious abuse. Thank you for breaking down this book for us.
I always liked Jill. I was one of the millions who watched 19 (18, 17) Kids and Counting. She always had this energy to her that made me like her. Hearing what her life was actually like and hearing her stand up for herself made me proud. When she got her nose pierced I was so happy as someone with hers pierced. Thank you Jill for telling your story
The text Jill sent her father was so impactful to read. I have a hard time setting boundaries in my family life and that text was so well written and her bravery is awe-inspiring. One of her lines in the book talks about Guilt and Fear, and she had to overcome all of that to send that text. It’s just amazing to hear. I really think this book will help people, whether they were raised fundamentalist or not.
Jen, I will always appreciate how you stand up for trans people, whether it's pointing out Derrick's transphobia towards Jazz Jennings, or Allie Beth Stucky complaining about Dr. Barbie. You're right about how both things can be true about Derrick - that he can be a good husband who helped Jill break free[ish] while also being a transphobic asshole.
@@zflw64 Yes, but Jill at least is quieter about it. Not to excuse her, but Derick harassed a transgender minor on twitter, which is much ruder and more disrespectful.
@@zflw64being silent isn’t the same as not grabbing the megaphone. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that not everything has to be online or public for our consumption. Seems like she never really wanted to be in the public eye like that. Point is we don’t know her views she hasn’t shared so it’s all just speculation.
Simon and Schuster, the publisher, has been one of the industry's leaders for a century. Founded by two Jews, of course, it's secular in a mostly Christian nation. It publishiles all faiths and political views. The firm has had relatively few controversies. Fun Fact: Carly Simon, a founder's daughter, was inducted into the Rock and Rock and Roll Hall last year. Her most infamous song is 'You're So Vain'.
They also don’t hand out book deals for just anyone. Stephen King has his book deal with S&S. This is huge compared to Jinger’s Christian publisher. The Dillards have entered a new level.
honestly of everything about the duggars that's come out over the years, it's the financial abuse that has me the most shocked. growing up, my mom always told me and my sisters that the duggars didn't care about the money and this was all a ministry to them and (i don't know where my mom heard this) that the duggars often wouldn't even cash the checks from the show. as i deconstructed, i rethought a lot about the show, but for some reason i never once considered the financial aspect. if i'm entirely honest, it wasn't until shiny happy people that i had even made the connection that the show was based on child labor, and that the kids should be paid.
It hurts my heart to see her wishing her Father would stand up for her like he did for Josh. I think this is a sentiment shared by many kids whose parents were negligent and/or absent. I’m happy that she has the courage to come out with this book and be the voice for many who are silenced in abusive family dynamics.
I think Jen would like the book of Esther. It was my favorite book in the Bible and it was so empowering as a young girl. She was my Cinderella . Even now that I’m an adult, no longer a Christian and have mayor religious trauma I still find comfort and strength in Esther. As far as the Bible goes it’s one of the best portraits of women. It’s historical and exciting. Apparently I’m still very attached to it 😅
I left the church too. So much confusion. But lots of the bible....still sticks with me. I love so much of what I read. The way God loved Rahabs heart and she became the mother of Boaz. Married one of the two spies, Salmon. A Hebrew warrior in Joshua and Calebs Army. Salmon loved her and didn't care about what ANYONE thought. He saw her heart and she believed in the God of the Hebrews. They raised Boaz and one day Boaz married Ruth, A women like his momma. I can't get over it. Makes me cry every time I think about it. So redeeming.
I'm also no longer religious, but I've found it so interesting how often we still cling to things from our religions. I was confirmed under St. Joan of Arc, I'm no longer Catholic or Christian (agnostic), yet I still wear the medallion I got for confirmation every day so many years later. Some things can still serve us, even if we leave what hurts us behind
unsure if its been mentioned: but authors 100% benefit financially from library use. libraries (in the US specifically) purchase the books & if they see a lot of people borrowing certain titles, they may buy more copies if physical. ebooks (including digital audiobooks) have their licensing renewed regularly and if those see popularity, theyll license more 'copies' for their patrons to have access to. So if you borrow from the library, you ARE supporting authors financially! this is good info to have for when you WANT to financially support but cant buy your own copies, or if you want to avoid support entirely. great video, i just wanted to make sure everyone know about libraries!
Already crying at hearing Jen read Jill's dedicated page, it got me effed up. It means a lot especially now that I've finally began to understand my own religious trauma. Thank you for putting this out Jen❤
The bigotry Derrick has bums me out a lot but at the same time I feel like the two of them have the potential to move past that. They both seem biblically literate and I just hope that the right pastor enters their life or they are able to adjust their understanding. Purely statistically speaking, it would make sense for at least one Duggar kid to be queer so maybe that could help open their eyes
I also think as they get further on this journey of deconstruction, some of it will come naturally. As you unravel the way fundamentalism oppressed you, both men and women, the revelation of how queer people have been oppressed is likely to follow soon after. I don’t think they can reasonably educate themselves on religious trauma without eventually coming to the conclusion “queer people are fine”, at the very least. Derrick was raised with a “men should say what they want and should be listened to” mentality and was randomly shoved into a space where he could say whatever he wanted to millions of people, and I’m hoping it was just a severe miscalculation on his part and I hope his lack of having addressed this has been because of Jill speaking up about her abuse, because his apology would absolutely overshadow that. I’m hoping that Derrick one day talks about his own deconstruction, coming from the same patriarchal background from the men’s side.
I wasn't surprised at that at all, to be honest. If she had married a Catholic, a Jew, or, gasp, an atheist from Japan, that would have truly been surprising. But she married a white Evangelical Protestant man not too far from home. Of course he'd have bigoted views. Just the fact that he doesn't view her as property already shows growth on his part. Deconstruction takes time.
I love that you felt middling about her not holding Jim Bob accountable ENOUGH, and her opinions about the parentification. Those gave me a lot of pause, too. But she's in real therapy and can continue to work through that. Otherwise this book was a really fascinating read
Probably unpacking the parentification is painful because she genuinely loves the siblings put in her charge, so maybe unpacking it makes her feel like she’s rejecting those kids. Plus she got genuine dopamine hits out of the praise she got for being Sweet Jilly Muffin. I’m not about to deny dopamine. LOL I’m sure she’ll get around to unpacking this.
This is why I hate the "Bootstrap" mentality. People who watched the Duggars thought that these people who had a TON of kids were not taking assistance and no "welfare" queen scenarios when they were selling their children and themselves for a house and food. So, ummmm assistance, right? SMH
for real. these freaks never actually follow their own rules. and on a similar note, advocating against birth control when you have so many kids you can't even take care of them properly would make me want to start birth control immediately lmao
What really tickles me about the whole shouting Nike thing is that they are shouting out the name of the ancient Greek goddess of Victory! 😂 Very pagan of them! Much more appropriate and godly to just shout “shoe” one would have thought. I need to buy this book, thank you Jen ❤
I thought about the irony myself. At first I thought they couldn't wear Nike because of the pagan name I never watched the show so I had no idea what she was talking about at first.
There was literally an ancient civil uprising (that started as a sports riot) that involved the rioters shouting "Nika!" (cognate with Nike). Seriously. Look up the Nika Riots.
I looked up what Derek Dillard said that got everyone so upset: “Transgender is a myth. Gender is assigned by G-d.” And “Jazz Jennings is being exploited…I pity him.” Well, I don’t agree with his first statement, but I absolutely agree that Jazz Jennings has been brutally exploited, by her parents and by the network. What TLC did to Jazz should have been illegal. I call Jazz Jennings “she/her” because that’s what she wants to be called, and because she isn’t a physical threat to anyone.
It’s so hard. It feels like she’s only just starting to come to terms with how much her childhood must have negatively impacted her. She will probably stop minimizing the older she gets.
Not only not having the same financial rights as child “scripted” actors, reality child actors also don’t have the same labor rights in terms of working hours, schooling of course, etc. really sick stuff
Dude I just got to watch Shiny Happy People and I was SO STOKED when I was casually cleaning listening to the documentary and I HEARD JENS VOICE!! I looked up so excited! Lol love you so much!!
I've just started the video, but i wanted to say as someone raised evangelical and no longer religious at all, it breaks my heart that the message of Christ is so supportive of the oppressed and encourages them to stand against it and Christians just turned it into a complex in order to oppress everyone else. Psalm 9:9 reminded me of this
this has been on my mind lately. grewing up southern christian conservative and ive been nonreligous for about a decade now and am currently really focusing on my relationship w the poor and homeless- there's a lot of ingrained hatred towards them in christian communities. that a homeless person must be drug free and appealing to you, must be a 'correct' version of a homeless person to be worthy of care. when all the bible asks is for you to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give to the poor and visit the imprisoned. no caveats. it's... weird to see the mental gymnastics at work vis a vis the reality of christianity/evangelicals.
The problem is that radical conservatives/ fundamentalist Christians consider themselves to be oppressed and "wokeness" (aka: acceptance, accountability, and inclusivity) is the oppressor.
yeah I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately too - I was raised mormon and I just can’t help but be disgusted at the fact that they took christ’s message of love and peace and turned it into a way to abuse and shame people. it’s truly sick.
Sharing these details (on her own terms) must feel so freeing. Someone had to expose the darkness behind the Duggar Empire and she's made that sacrifice. Well done, Jill.
Mere words could never express how much these episodes mean to me, especially the Duggar ones, since my (violently abusive) parents adored them and mimicked them as much as possible (the Duggar's books were mainstays in the household, too). The mental and emotional healing after watching you cover them is insane. Thank you so much for all the research and time you put into these, you make my mental and emotional health skyrocket afterwards.
A little off topic, but thank you for the “deconstruction does not have to end in atheism comment.” I’ve been struggling with deconstructing my own faith and it’s nice to see that I don’t have to go down a road I don’t want to be on.
One more comment from me - not only are the Reverend Jen and Mr. James funny to listen to, there's another aspect of the Fundie Friday channel that totally cracks me up. The way they insert their faces into family photos of whomever they are discussing, as if they were in the original photo, is so frickin funny. I spend time looking at the way they photoshop themselves into the scenes. OMG I love it. The laughter I have from this channel is over the top. Laughter is considered as medicine for the soul, or yoga for our organs. With the amount of healthy laughter and giggles I get from Jen and James, I'll live to be 100. Thank you for sharing your discussions, opinions and thoughts. Thank you for the laughter and giggles. If more people in our world were as enjoyable as you two, our world would definitely be a much better place to exist in. Cheers!!
If the rules were consistent and you always knew what was expected of you and what would get you in trouble, I can see taking comfort in that. That's one of the things that I hated the most about my own upbringing - the rules were not consistent. And that often led to my brother and I being punished and we didn't know why. That said, I know that my own upbringing, while abusive, was on a completely different level from what Jill went through. As much as my parents favored my brother and their expectations for him were completely different from what they expected from me, I can't imagine them ever reacting the way Michelle and Jim Bob did if something even remotely close to what Josh did to Jill and the other girls were to happen to me. Well, I can't really imagine my brother ever doing something like that to me either, but you get the idea. From what I've seen and heard about the Duggars (and IBLP in general), it seems like boys are always the priority and always given the benefit of the doubt while the girls are pushed into the background and... not exactly ignored, but more... blamed whenever possible. If that makes sense?
I truly appreciate the respect you show for others and their faiths. You call out the insane hypocrisy and so you make it about the actual truths without generalizing others. You are a first step for people trying to be brave and step outside and think about abuse without scaring them away.
Thank you providing the Fundie Friday view of the book! I also purchased the audio version of the book. I was comforted by hearing that the girl Duggars all came together to help Jill after her tough second pregnancy/delivery where she and the baby could had not made it. They brought food, helped with dishes, laundry and watching her little boy. The series seemed like it started with good intentions…then the green eyed monster overtook Jimbob just like it did with Kate Gosselin. Then the TLC contracts ruled everyones lives at ALL costs. Godbless Jill and Derek and John Gosselin for having the courage to walk away from these restraints. I am glad Jill wrote the book….I hope this heals her and the Duggar family by undoing the shade Jimbob cast upon her and Derrick. It seems like there is still alot of love in that family 💕
I’ve been saving this video for three days as I work at a solicitors (attorney/lawyers for Americans). I’ve been binging FF’s videos while I go through legal documents - I’m so excited to listen while I read about other peoples legal issues 🎉
Just finished. What an incredible read. So happy for Jill and all that she’s accomplished. I know there’s more work to do still, but she’s come SO far!
I finished the book a couple of days ago and I’m just bummed you’re doing this live while I’m on vacation and trying to get my grubby kids into a bathtub 😂
Off topic, but you look so happy and healthy lately Jen. Like you are just in full glow ❤. I hope that aligns with your reality. You and James deserve all the happiness and opportunities life has to offer. Much love from PA.
Jen, and James, you are so funny, and fun to listen to, no matter who or what you're talking about. I love the content you choose to discuss but I love your humor even more. I wonder if all your listeners/subscribers think you're as funny as I do. And the best part of your humor is that you're just speaking with honesty. Whenever I'm having a bad day, I turn to your UA-cam channel and listen to you. And if I've caught up and watched all of your content, I'll listen to one of my favorites over and over because you're funny over and over again. Thank you for allowing your thoughts be public. Thank you for sharing.
she is the definition of perseverance! the way that she admits to being so physically overcome with anxiety but still ALWAYS does right by her kids is so admirable
Michelle and Jim Bob definitely did not do their best with the whole Josh situation. They consistently put Josh ahead of their daughters and just wanted to sweep it under the rug and pretend it never happened - which ofc gave Josh the opportunity to do it again. I suppose if by "do their best," they mean try to protect Josh from the consequences of his actions? Okay, yeah - they did do their best to try to shield Josh. But that was done at the expense of their daughters, physically and mentally. And when Jill says they got her counseling? I have a feeling that's a Biblical Counselor, which is not a regulated or licensed profession (although some churches like to issue "licenses" to the counselors they train to make them look more legitimate than they actually are). I've been to a Biblical Counselor - it was basically Bible study and prayer hour. It was not at all helpful and I told Mom that I didn't want to go back after the first visit (she kept insisting there was "nothing wrong" in the first place, so she was happy about it). So if Jill's experience was anything like mine? I can't see that being at all helpful - especially if it was someone who bought into the IBLP BS about men sexually assaulting women being the fault of the woman. Well, under the high control situation in that family, I'm not really sure how much agency Michelle really has (or thinks she has). She is his first victim, after all. He groomed her from the moment they first met. It's all over Shiny Happy People with the way she always gazes at him adoringly whenever he's speaking.
The thing is that if the cops had followed procedure instead of protecting Josh AGAIN, the girl's names would have been redacted properly. So it's not InTouch magazines fault, it's more fallout from Josh mattering more than the girls still.
I saw Jinger a couple weeks ago at a children’s museum in Southern California and it was surreal because I’d just watched the Duggar doc. She looked very “normal” compared to how I’ve always seen her on the Duggar show.
It helped me a lot in my healing to realize that the abuse wasn't mine, but my parents. My grandfathers weren't nice men to their spouses or their children and seeing how it carried over into how my parents raised us, knowing they can't do better if they don't know better, was instrumental in my process.
When she told Jim Bob "You treat me worse then my pedophile brother," I was so proud of her, and hurt for her at the same time.
Same
That must have been a terribly hard realization for her to make.
I understand there many victims in their culture, but Jim Bob truly sucks. He basically had all the power in that family and chose to cover things up and harm his children. There are just some people in the world that should never even be in charge of a paper clip let alone multiple people's lives
I gasped out loud, and felt a deep catharsis both for her, and for me. That’s the exact sort of thing I wish I could have said to my abusers’ supporters. So unbelievably proud of and pained for her.
You treat me worse THAN (not THEN) my peodephile brother.😊
The “I wanted my daddy to stand up for me” comment absolutely gutted me 😭
Same. That’s all many of us want and sadly too many of us don’t get
Same.
@@Mama_Bear524 yeah :(
My dad was an amazing person and I’m so grateful to have had him even if I wish it could have been for longer.
Everyone deserves a dad that loves them and looks out for them but so many don’t get that :(
I remember after I was abused in school, my father's response was, "You're just bound and determined to embarrass me, aren't you?" I learned at a very early age that he was never going to stick up for me, and I have nothing but sympathy from Jill.
Mine was too busy pulling every drawer out and strewing my clothes all over my room, then screaming and calling me crazy for hours. That was the most triggering word for decades, "crazy". He even figured out how to dismantle the garage door opener or take one tiny piece from my engine so I had to stay & listen. Good fathers are SO important. If you're not married yet, and you want to marry & have kids, make certain you marry a patient man who understands kids are sponges. Who just need to feel safe.
I think Jill is in that weird limbo where she's realized the beliefs she was taught and the indoctrination of her family isn't true, or right but can't let it go in full.
I feel that way about Jinger, but unlike Jill she still paints her parents in a decent light
I grew up in a similar church.. I left, kicked out at 18. I am now 60 and it took years to completely unpeel that onion, if you ever really do..
Hey, there can be a good life in that limbo, though. Especially for the kids of the person who's learning to be more flexible with things.
She shouldn’t have to. She alone should decide what’s best for her. Shaking off toxic systems (like IBLP) is what’s important.
@@iFlunkedAWANAI think the problem is the likely still holds harmful beliefs eg transphobia
“I would rather her have a good memory than a shitty one” is a pretty good way to summarize the book. Personally, I think that Jill hasn’t fully accepted the breadth of the abuse that she experienced, but if she’s happy with where she’s at then that’s all that matters. It’s her journey to own as she sees fit.
Well said. It’s never going to be perfect. It’s a lifetime of unraveling. That abuse doesn’t just leave you. But she’s so far ahead of where she was. She’s badass. Someone to be admired and so happy she has her husband.
Yup, and it'll be a lifelong one. She's grown so much in such a short amount of time. She's the scapegoat out of all those kids. That's a lot to process. It'll be cool to see how much she grows in the next decade if she chooses to show us. And how exciting that she finally gets that choice.
I think that part of coming to terms with abuse is that you are allowed to have some of those positives memories. I remember sometimes laughing and having a nice time with my mother who was also very abusive. She could have learned skills and became a better person because of the abuse, but that is because she was trying to survive and fit into her dysfunctional family. I'm sure she really loved bonding with her siblings. It was just unfair to her as a child to have that as an expectation. She should be taking full credit for her good qualities, because she grew those with very little help from her baby machine "parents". Her siblings that weren't evil can get some credit too maybe.
@@spOOkytimesI don't think most of her siblings were evil, except her older brother. I think they're mostly good, if flawed, people who grew up in a shitty, abusive environment and didn't get an education beyond cult brainwashing. Then they mostly married very young to other people with the same upbringing, and so it becomes normal and they don't realise there was anything wrong.
Jessa, Joy, Jinger and the rest are victims too.
Right on. I had a tough upbringing and I'm just now learning to re-frame some stuff in ways that makes me feel more empowered. I still know the truth. I still maintain no contact and always will. But, in my own head, I kinda let myself sort of.... let the memory go fuzzy and try to spot any part that could be somehow seen as positive and let that be seen clearly. Helps me survive each day. I know what's real. But a little narrative change can help me get through the day.
I'm absolutely horrified that Jill and Jessa's abuser was IN THE SAME ROOM during that interview! The fact he had a smile on his face should remove all doubt (from the very few that still do) that he's an absolute monster
P.S. I got the biggest smile on my face twice: first when she questioned what right Jim Bob had asking about HER uterus and second when she finally called him out for defending her MONSTER of a brother! Best of luck to Jill!
I knew they were forced to say all that. I knew they were abused and were forced to pretend everything was ok. It felt like there was a metaphorical gun to their heads. But I didn’t know it was Josh.
Just sick. Those poor girls.
@@Mama_Bear524 I call it.evil
I was horrified by that too, and disgusted that the show allowed him to be there
@@ZannaDArcy I think that just shows the power Jim Bob wields over the conservative media. He may be "kinder and gentler" about it than Dumpf but he still wields it
My jaw actually dropped.
I think this is what Jill meant when she referenced Esther from the old testimate: Esther was very, very, VERY brave and what she did was scary. She risked her life but she ultimately saved a lot of people from not just oppression, but death. She risked EVERYTHING and could have lost everything in doing so. Jill has lost a lot. Including most of her family. But she has also gained her voice, her liberty and her freedom. Esther's life was not easy. It was painful. I think it's been the same for Jill.
👏 Yes! Esther is my favorite Bible story. So inspiring. ❤
@@amberjulia123if you thought the Bible version was good wait till you hear the one in the torah!
@@peacelovecigarettes 👁️👄👁️ Is it even more of a soap opera?! I will definitely check it out!
@@peacelovecigarettes The story of Esther isn’t in the Torah - do you mean the Megillah?
@@TheFormerPresidentsDenim yes, that's what I meant to say🤣
"You treat me worse than my pedophile brother" is such a powerful statement, I am so unbelievably proud of her for taking that power back
I was parentified as a child and I also thought it was very fun. My sisters were born when I was in 3rd and 4th grade (one each year), and they were the best baby dolls. I can understand why she looks at that fondly. HOWEVER, when I was tired or needed a break from helping out, I was made to feel selfish. I remember very clearly when my parents needed to go in to town for grocery shopping, asking if they could take the girls because I was tired. My dad was so disappointed and told me that taking care of family should never feel like work. My son is the same age I was when I used to babysit an infant and a toddler, and I barely trust him to reheat leftovers. 😅
That’s awful I’m so sorry. “Interesting” how your dad said that. Why is it supposed to be “not work” for you. The sister, the child, who didn’t choose to have these kids, but it’s so much work for your parents they had to make their kid do the work?
These people are always such hypocrites it’s unbelievable.
@@Mama_Bear524 Thank you for the validation. Luckily for my sisters, my family moved away from our church circles. I never really got an acknowledgment or apology, so I’m still working through that. Eventually, they paid it forward when I ended up as a single mom with two toddlers. (Getting married at 20 was not kind to me.) Plus, my sisters have also been an amazing help when they choose to. And I’m glad they have the choice. Everyone is a victim in fundamentalism, and I’m glad we have broken the cycle.
I love the part about not trusting a child to reheat leftovers!!!! Mine is 13 and I barely trust her, and I have taught her!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
yes!! and u love ur siblings, it's not as if u don't care and want the best fpr them, so it's such a hard thing to go through and process
@@jennifersmith6516that was a brilliant comment and how many of us moms feel about our kids, no matter how much we teach them 😅
The fact that they not only forced them to make that interview defending their abuser but then he was in the room as the interview was happening?!??? Shame on the parents but also shame on the tv station allowing this to happen.
Jim Bob and Michelle think Josh is the victim. I bet they secretly think those children Josh molested ‘tempted’ him and that ultimately it’s their fault. They won’t admit that, but that’s how they think. Michelle’s darling son could never be wrong, and Jim Bob couldn’t have possibly created a monster because the sun shines out of his ass
I think I was among many others who thought this interview was just pr damage control for TLC. Jim Bob, Michelle, and TLC were once again turning these poor girls who were victims into their pawns. It was gross. If a victim wants to forgive their abuser, that is their right, but the court of law does not take that into consideration in these cases and Josh still deserved to rot in a prison cell regardless.
Shame on Megyn Kelly too!
It's Fox News(?) --- you expected morality? Seriously, their tagline ought to be "Got a sin? Watch us spin!"
bet it made him feel invincible. fucking creep
I went to a fundie elementary school and the whole “thoughts are sins” thing really messed me up, because I developed OCD from a young age. Dwelling/obsessing over thoughts is pretty much the hallmark of OCD, so I was convinced I was going to hell. Do not teach your children this garbage.
Yes, I also have OCD and this destroyed me mentally. I developed scrupulosity (religious OCD) because of it. The idea that thoughts are just as bad as actions...it took me years to begin to unlearn this and it's still messed me up.
Omgosh, YES. I listened to a clinical deep dive on OCD maybe a couple years ago and the connection between it and religion seemed soooo apparent to me. Not to say anyone religious will inevitably develop it, but that I could see how habits like confession or defining missteps as "sin" which we need cleansing from are just... asking for trouble.
Oh. Hi. I also have OCD and the whole "thoughts are deeds" set me up for some terribly traumatic experiences. Telling kids that is abuse that sets them up for further abuse.
I'm reading Brain Lock, fantastic book by a man who runs a large successful treatment program at UCLA.
YESS! I wish more people talked about extreme religious upbringing and its correlation with OCD! It's something I'm really digging into during mt deconstruction the past few years!
I just finished the book last night and I’m so glad she went into so much detail about Jim Bob’s financial abuse. I hope this gives her siblings the courage to speak up and get their money too
Yes! I hope the IRS goes after him.
And there's also the fact that the contract he had the kids sign for that lump sum is not a legal contract. Legal contracts do not allow for "in perpetuity." There is always an expiration date. It might 100 years from now, but there has to be an expiration date.
But I bet he's banking on the fact that none of his kids know anything about contract law. After all, he knows just how little of an education they received. And he knows that their rules about the internet greatly reduces the chance that they'll ever learn about it.
It's so sad to think that all her hard earned money went to fund her pedophile brother's lifestyle and career. He was clearly the favorite until the bitter end.
I have what’s probably a dumb question/assumption , but here goes… I’m assuming Jim Bob likely claimed all his kids for tax credits. If you do that, and then also “pay” them with that weird itemized list the way he did… one has got to cancel out the other, is that right? Could the IRS get him for that? (I’m sorry if this isn’t clear - I’m an idiot when it comes to taxes.) Anyway, I thought the book was great and I totally agree - I hope it opens the eyes of the siblings to how they’ve been wronged.
@@jennl3404 No, claiming them as dependents on his taxes would only mean that they couldn't claim themselves on their taxes.
I actually ran into that the first time I filed taxes. Dad claimed me out of habit. I claimed myself. And the IRS was like, "uh, one of you two needs to drop the claim."
Derek isn’t the greatest of people but he sounds like a fucking amazing husband. He’s a hero for being by her side every step of the way and I genuinely respect that so much, even if I mad hate the bigotry. I hope both of them can keep growing and finding strength together.
Same. Very well said!
I agree that he seems like a great husband, however as a man roughly the same age Derick was when he became prayer partners with Jim Bob and started courting Jill, I can’t help but side eye his thought process, values and intentions during that time. I volunteered for half a year at a Christian monastery (that’s not nearly as extreme in regards to tradition as the Duggars culture) and the patriarchal structures were off putting to me personally, which leads me to question men who embrace and endorse these institutions.
@@milofu2457 I think Derick was looking for a father figure after his own passed away and, for whatever reason, latched to JB. Thankfully, it bit JB in the ass.
@@milofu2457it seems as though Derrick has deconstructed a lot of that. None of the Duggar girls were allowed to date outside of those traditions. I wonder, hope, and assume that Derrick is on the same deconstruction journey Jill is on and while it is okay to chastise him for his current beliefs about the lgbtq+ community, I don’t think it is fair to judge him for formerly holding the values he was raised in. I’m glad he and Jill met each other, it seems as though meeting each other is what brought them both out of this crazy world they were in.
He has been quiet as far as his worst takes as of recent, which doesn’t seem to be his nature. I hope that means he has re-evaluated some of his views but knows he doesn’t know enough to say anything yet. If someone learns homophobia is wrong but doesn’t fully understand why because they have lack of experience with the LGBT community and what they do not want outsiders saying, addressing past mistakes can be scary because you don’t know if you are going to fuck up even more. They also may both not be ready to alienate their more mainline Christian followers by addressing things like this. He has deconstructed a lot of the sexism he learned in recent years. So at least he is willing to learn. But I notice even when he has addressed that, it’s less of a ‘I was wrong for thinking like this and I’m ashamed of my actions’ situation and more of a ‘oh no. No, she is my equal. The church calls men the head of the household but that doesn’t mean anything. I love and respect her. She can wear what she wants. I’m not like her father.’ So I suspect he never really learned how to address his faults and properly apologize for them, which is common with men, even in mainline Christianity.
I appreciate Jill's honesty and courage. And I completely agree that no one ever has to forgive their abuser. I also want to add that if forgiving your abuser helps bring you internal peace, you can forgive them without letting them back into your life. Forgiveness isn't the same as erasure. It's more like letting go.
But again, no one ever has to forgive their abuser.
Definitely. I’ve never accepted the “you have to forgive to move on” theory.
Very much agree ❤ Forgiveness doesn’t have to include reconciliation, period. It’s the individual’s choice in how they want to move forward
Thank you for saying this. I was abused and the idea of “forgiving” him is atrocious. But letting go of the anger and hate and fear is a much better feeling. I’m going to try doing this instead of trying to force myself to forgive him. Thank you, friend.
Agreed. When people push forgiveness it feels like a further revictimization. Like, again, it’s on the victim to do the heavy lifting, or else feel guilty. I don’t know how to properly explain it but it’s basically how I’ve felt.
True. My family tends to use the word "forgiveness" as a synonym for "pretend nothing happened for our convenience". So it's a loaded term for me. But I think we could choose to define forgiveness as letting go but not going back, and that seems fine.
I'm just so happy other people are pointing out how toxic the language around forgiveness can be. I felt so alone for so long
"A thought becomes a sin when you dwell on it." Wow Jen, I think... I think you may have just solved half my mental problems just by debunking that. This channel is WAY better than the unlicensed Christian therapy my parents spent my college fund on!
Good ol religious ocd
Ikr? That was so helpful to me. I was raised in Christian Science that teaches the same thing tho on top of that not just thinking something “sinful” = sin but also for example thinking about something scary could will that into the world too. I know that’s not true now but it’s good to be reminded that it’s not true and that wording specifically helped
@@OnsenDreamscapes)
I’m so sorry you were taught you’re doing literal thought crimes. That’s a high control tactic and you didn’t deserve to have that done to you.
@@OnsenDreamscapes christian science = no science and lots of wishful thinking
My dad financially abused me and I learned about it when I couldn't get financial aid for grad school; I turned him into the IRS. It made me so happy when I knew he was suffering. So when I read that part of the book, I stood and cheered for Jill.
I'm disabled was not able to get social security due to my mom's income. Now as an adult I don't have a conservatorship but my bank accounts are under my mom's name and my life insurance too so I don't really have any assets of my own. I'm not able to work I have been trying to get SSI for so many years now it has been difficult. Now I'm pregnant thank God it's going well.
And now I am standing and cheering for you!
Huge respect.
Jill didn’t say anything that didn’t need to be said. She simply set the record straight about matters that were already out there. She was not vindictive. She simply told her truth. Good book.
It’s such a shame because if Jill was my daughter I would be so proud. And she has a father who considers her a failure. In what world.
Jim Bob is projecting. He is a massive failure as a husband, father, friend, and even at being a decent person, let alone based on his messed up standards that expect religious perfection.
@@spOOkytimesWell said! I was thinking the same thing. He knows deep down that he's nothing but a spineless fraud and pedo sympathizer (if not a pedo himself...Josh learned it somewhere) Jill is the scapegoat of the family, which is sad but must be freeing for her at the same time.
"you treat me worse than my pedophile brother" what a mic drop moment but also must have been such an aweful realization to her that this was the truth that her dad really did treat Josh better than her even after everything
Absolutely incandescent with rage over what an absolute scumbag Jim Bob has been and frankly continues to be to his children. Jill seems like she’s made a ton of progress and I’m really happy for her. I hope that she can eventually accept that her father is not a good person. I know from experience that it’s really hard to give up on someone you love, though.
My new and totally apropriate name for thatPOS is Rim Job now and forever. May he rest in hell with the monster he finds so fabulous.
So much of what Jim Bob has done to his children and adult children reminds me of my own dad's behavior. I'm full no contact with my dad.
@@laurelgrasso2897 damn, I’m sorry you went through that. Congrats on getting away, it takes a lot of strength and courage to do.
I think it is hard with parents, too, because we worry that maybe we have those same horrible traits or behaviors without realizing and are afraid of being hypocritical.
@@AlexisTwoLastNamesOr worse, swear I wouldn't do it but catch the echos of my parents when I'm dealing with my children.
I listened to the audiobook while I was at work and I’m impressed with how honest she was. I hope she’s found healing through it all.
So instead of working you got paid to listen to a book?
@@mj6962 Newsflash: you can work while listening to music, podcasts, audiobooks, whatever just like you can walk and chew gum at the same time...
@@mj6962People have all different kinds of jobs. Many of them can be competently executed while listening to music, talk radio, podcasts, or books.
@mj6962 So you're mad that your work situation is so shit and you're so unhappy with it that you lash out at other people whose jobs allow them to have headphones in while they work, because you can't? Is that it? Or you're forever unemployed and bitter? Whatever your personality flaw that makes you act like that is, it's still not that person's fault. Lmao, sO iNsTeAd oF wOrKiNg yOu GoT pAiD tO LiStEn tO a BOoK??!🤡
@@rachel_sj yeah ok is that what her boss said? Lol
THEY DID NOT EVEN GIVE HER MONEY FOR THE COPAY?! I nearly table flipped just hearing that. it's all awful, but that is just monstrous. They force her to film something private and then refuse to help her with the cost.
Because they already paid JB. It was JB who didn't give her any money.
@@seameologyso you admit she wasn't properly compensated
Freaking obscene, that's so explotitve!
I always suspected that daddy Jim was a horrible person. I wonder what Michelle is really like. I imagine she has always done as she is told.
My mother liked that show, but I could never stomach it. I have known people who were sweet to your face and stab you in the back. They are all holier than thou conservative “Christians” or cult members if you will.
@@GotAnUmbrellaOh yeah, we know Jim Bob unashamedly stole from his kids in every way possible.
Jill confirmed my headcanon that the women were being forced into filming their births. It makes me so sad cause I had health issues that I was coming to accept in private and someone in my family kept talking about the details to people I didn't even know. That was so hard, I can't imagined having to film and worry about how you look while going through serious pain. Especially as modest women.
that was so so fucked up. JB is a sadist
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That happened to me as well in my early 20s, when I was diagnosed with several severe chronic health issues. I have a large extended family and I know they care about me and wanted to know what was happening and I know my parents wanted people to talk to for emotional support as well, but it was frustrating to be the topic of gossip on social media (which I didn't even use) and hear my mom answering questions (incorrectly) on my behalf when people called. I was so sick and dealing with my life changing forever, worrying about medical bills and pain and what kind of future I could have, and my family was using me as an icebreaker topic with cashiers at the grocery store lol. I got to the point that I have no problem talking about myself now, but I think people really need space and time during high-stress, transitional periods in their lives -- whether it's birth, illness, marriage, etc.
I grew up Catholic/evangelical and I get incredibly uncomfortable just going to the doctor and discussing my body with them. I can’t imagine a fully entrenched fundie upbringing and then basically being told by your dad that you have to bare it all on TV, when birth can be an incredibly stressful and traumatic experience, let alone physically vulnerable.
Yeah, I also had a family member go around telling the entire family that I was pregnant before I even got a chance to. And she also shamed me for quitting my job soon afterwards. Fuck toxic families.
I experienced a lot of trauma throughout my birth, every time the doctor would check my dilated it felt like she was slicing up my cervix with a pair of scissors. Also they kept missing the spot for the epidural and I cried so hard my mask kept slipping off from being filled with tears and mucus. I can’t imagine then having a goddamn camera in my face as I hysterically screamed and cried…
ALSO, Jim Bob was calling her LIVING IN THE GIANT ROOM AT THE BIG HOUSE WITH HER SISTERS her "apartment" at the rate of $700 a month. While still a minor. She never lived in an apartment on her own. They estimated the worth of her sharing a bedroom with like seven other girls to be $700 😂
Wasn’t the big house also classified as a church so Jim Butt can skirt some taxes? Is it legal for him to charge rent in a church?
Especially in the 2000s…
It was definitely a mindfuck for me when I realized that not only are the standards they apply to us harmful, they’re not even living up to their own rules. It’s so frustrating. Like I have to have a man in my life to “protect” me but they were actually the danger.
To protect you from .. men in your life. Its basically a protection racket.
@@PanicattheDiscourse that’s why I tell men now, if you want to protect the women and children in your life, go to therapy.
Yup. We women need men to protect us from other men. 💣 🤨😖
thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis. shiny happy people really helped me in my deconversion journey. religious fundies are full of sh*t, they only care about control. that's why their culture attracts, breeds, enables abusers.
Amen. Everything they do is about control, hardly ever love. I am an ex-evangelical who it took a long time to learn this!
I saw a twitter thread of discussion on Jill’s religious beliefs and how this shouldn’t matter and another person replied how it took decades just for them to leave. Jill telling Jim bob off was a moon landing moment for the girls in that cult .
I gasped out loud when I got to that part. I understand how revolutionary this was!!!!
Right?? These are kids who didn't read books or watch TV outside of their group's "approved" materials. For one of them to develop this much independent thought is, um, a testament to the inextinguishable human spirit
@@DizzyBusyfor real! they were so sheltered and incredibly limited in what they were exposed to/allowed to interact with, etc. so no wonder it took time to unlearn. some people are so heavily indoctrinated up until they're teenagers and had so much fear instilled in them as kids that i'm so impressed that some even leave those extreme beliefs at all
I'm so proud of her. Derek was legit a knight in shining armor... i hope he stops with the bigotry
He is probably more open-minded than the rest of Duggars and spouses.
@@merricat3025 I kept thinking he was the best thing her dad ever put in her path.
The trans stuff is just like the pants. These Christians don't *know* any queer/trans people. We got driven out of their churches explicitly so they wouldn't know us. And as long as they don't know us, they're just talking about an imaginary version of us as described to them by people who ALSO don't know us. I hope they'll eventually broaden their interactions enough to actually spend some time with trans people, because it'll go a long way.
@violetx9668, I often thought about that, as Jill seemed to distance herself. At 1st, I thought since her dad chose Derek for his daughter that it may not turn out best for her. Thankfully, I was wrong.
I really agree with you. Yes I also agree that he needs to get past the bigotry. But I am really impressed with who he has grown to be. I thought he was trash just hanging on for the fame and money but then I saw shiny happy people, and I realized that he is a really good person who really genuinely loves her and that the go fund me was because they weren’t getting paid. I thought really poorly of them at that time, and I just didn’t know. I just hope that these to grow out of the bigotry and realize that these are people just like them who have struggles and trauma just like them and deserve love and respect just like them.
I think it's awful that Jill and her sisters were re-victimized. If the story never gone out, Josh would still have been shamed. When the Ashley Madison Scandal broke, there was no denying his name was on the list of members. And then he paid for sex With a Stripper dancer. And it was out that he frequently went to those clubs. And then when he resigned from the FRC, he admitted to being addicted to pornography so he single-handedly brought down the Duggar family. And yet Jim Bob has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars 2 protect this useless son. And nothing to protect his daughters.
Agreed, I lay most of the blame on Jim Bob thou. If he had done the RIGHT thing by ALL of his children...gotten Josh PROPER treatment and held accountable and gotten his daughters into PROPER counselling if/when the In Touch shit hit the fan she may have been in a better mental space to handle it.
@@rebeccaabram2312Also if they had reported the abuse when Josh confessed, he would have been a minor. Then the report would have been part of his juvenile record and inaccessible by FOIA request. It all comes back to JB and Michelle being terrible parents.
It seems clear that Jim Bob only sees Josh as an extension of himself. Perhaps bc he was the firstborn? Maybe bc he sees more of himself in Josh than the other kids? Idk, but Jim Bob seems to feel…to an extent…the he is Josh and Josh is him - and it doesn’t seem to be that way with the other kids.
The rest of the children he views as mere decorations to his life. Josh is the only one who he sees as a living, breathing, human. Which is ironic…considering how INHUMANE Josh actually is.
@@amberjulia123 I honestly believe its because he's the 'First Born Son' and Josh is most likely the ONLY kid JB himself actually bonded with as a parent.
Patriarchy at its finest 🤮🤮
Jim Bob: “HOW DARE YOU ACUSE ME OF DOING THE THINGS I AM DOING” 🤦♀️🤣
It's clear to me in the light of the Franke crimes and the abuse revealed by Jill that minors of these"family" type vloggers and influencers need legal protection.
Some kind of legislation or mandates.
Since the parents obviously have no healthy boundaries and we as a public cannot protect the vulnerable children.
Absolutely. A few states and European countries have already started to pass laws to prevent the exploitation of children online by their own parents. That’s a step in the right direction. I mean, there are family vloggers who show their girls shopping for their first bra 😱😠, and talking about their periods and tampons. 🚫 What?! How is this okay? They are giving every predator on the planet the content they dream of. There are groups of pedofiles on the dark web who talk about these UA-cam channels and share time stamps of when a child’s body is exposed or their mouth is open. 🤮😵 Horrible. The majority of the views on these videos come from males over the age of 25. Sick sick sick. They are prostituting out their own children.
Absolutely. It'll probably have to look like the laws protecting child actors/ entertainers
I 100% agree with you, though this is really interesting and complex from a legal standpoint. There are free speech and religious freedom arguments that wouldn't be applicable to a lay child actor. I imagine (and hope!) we start to see some of these lawsuits in the coming decades as the first gen of reality TV stars get the maturity and money to file them.
If someone is a family vlogger I immediately know they are trash and child abusers.
I so feel Jill on the first time she wore pants out. I'm EXMO and the first time I wore a top that showed my shoulders I remember adjusting the shirt to cover my shoulders in front of the butter cow at the state fair. Later my friends bought me a beer and someone got an amazing picture of me laughing in the sun shoulders out and beer in my hand. I took a deep breath and told her it's ok to post it. I looked so free and happy in that picture I couldn't hide it.
this is a beautiful story! I'm happy for you
As someone who didn't realize they had grown up in an abusive family until I was 32, it definitely sounds to me like Jill doesn't yet have the distance/perspective/feeling of safety to recognize parts of her history as abusive yet. She's well on the way, and I'm very glad she's getting therapy and finding freedom in her new life. It is incredibly brave of her to write all this out and to be as honest as she is being. Speaking out against parents who have a huge presence is terrifying, and mine only has a presence in a church community, not a worldwide following because of a media conglomerate.
As far as Jill fully recognizing the overbearing nature of JimBob and Michelle's parenting, the parentification and child exploitation she experienced, she's on the way. I will state again, feelings about what happened to you come up in their own time once the nervous system has achieved a sense of safety from those circumstances. It's weird with religious trauma. Certain things feel current for so very long and because it is 'normal' it can take quite a while to wake up to the reasons behind why your brain follows a certain programming.
It's also quite hard to recontextualize your childhood as mostly (almost completely) negative. It requires a huge amount of identity work and self-compassion. I don't know if this is the same in IBLP, but in my childhood the word 'victim' had a massively negative connotation. People who called themselves victims were lazy, self-centered, delusional, all kinds of labels that really meant you weren't being a good Christian. All that to say, that Jill seeing herself as a victim of abuse in most of her childhood could take a lot of inner work for her to even be ready for.
Are you me?? Same. As an adult I’ve been unpacking the abuse I’d normalized my whole life until my early 30s especially since my mom died. It’s a lot! It’s really hard. And my brain just wants to be in denial about it but it makes it worse. So I have to face it.
Ugh.
Wishing you the best.
@@Mama_Bear524 I feel like this is an underrepresented experience. There's such a culture of avoiding criticism of parents, especially moms. The more people who speak up and can do so in varying degrees of publicity, the more accountability and healing we can all achieve. I'm sorry you share this experience, but I'm glad you could feel seen by my comment. All the best in your journey💙
Well said. And thank you for sharing your perspective from a similar background, it's helpful to hear from people who had similar experiences.
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but it sounds like you are living a life free from those negative influences now. That must have taken a lot of work and bravery, and from one human to another, that's incredible and I am so glad for you.
@@rachelhuitsing1876 I am so sorry this happened to you. You deserve so much peace and happiness & are so very brave for sharing. Im lucky I heard some small part of your life & I want honor your story. It is the story of one of my parents ❤ sending so much love to you ❤❤❤
@@Mama_Bear524I am not sure if it matters to hear this, but I am so sorry that is happening to you. You have made it through so much & are so incredibly strong in a way no one should have to be. I thank you for sharing & I am sending so much love. You’ve helped me understand people in my life better ❤❤❤
As a parent, I cannot imagine exploiting my kid like that. My ten-year-old occasionally offers to pay for things with her savings account money because we've had her save up for things that she really wants that are more expensive, like a Switch, and she hasn't quite gotten the difference between her having to buy a gaming console with her own money versus her wanting us to fix the air conditioning in the car (old car, would cost more than car is worth to repair) and offering to help out with the money for it. I just remind her that it's mine and her dad's job to pay for stuff like that, and she doesn't owe us for providing essentials or even for fun stuff that we're happy to cover.
You’re a good parent.
I remember having this fantasy when I was a child of getting rich someday, writing up an invoice for everything my parents had spent on me, writing a check and never speaking to them again. Because they did what Jim Bob did, holding everything they “gave” me over my head and reminding me every day what a burden I was to raise and how “poor” they were as a result (when they chose to send me to private school and get a piano and do things that made them look like good parents). And how everything was “sacrificed”for me. Until one day I realised I didn’t owe them anything and just walked away anyway.
She said her mom didn't want to film births but she allowed it for the show, "because it is their ministry." I ordered the book on Audible along with Jinger's book, yesterday. I listened to them both. Jill's book was life experiences, Jinger's was differentiating between IBLP and Calvinism. I did like the nod to the Free Jinger movement. Also Derick came in hard right after marriage about TLC money. If Jim Bob didn't prove himself to be such a pig, I would have at first thought he was trying to protect Jill's money from a man that they had collectively only known a few months. But the fact is Jim Bob was a huge pig, I also think Jim Bob gave his sons money from the beginning. I think he bought Josh's car lot, I think he bought John David's plane. He set each of those boys up financially. They also employed Ben, which I think is why Jessa cannot say anything against her father. I digress, but at first I could see a father being suspicious of a brand new husband so interested in his wife's income. Its clear to see almost immediately that is not the case. JB is just a selfish man that did not protect his daughters and has sold millions to protect his pedophile son. That alone says it all.
Wait, $80k for 7 years? That's a little over $11k a year. At a presumed 40 hours a week, that's less than minimum wage.
Oh and it's a contract with a clause in it that isn't legally enforceable. And as it's a labor contract, that could result in the entire contract being null and void if challenged in court. FFS!
I want to find Jill and Derek and tell them how badly they're being screwed and the fact that if they get a good lawyer, they can probably take Jim Bob (not TLC as their contract isn't with TLC) to court and win.
Derek is a lawyer. Total speculation: Jill may not want to go through that heavy (though justified) experience of suing her parents.
@@Nonameforyoudangitwhat kind of lawyer though? I'm an accountant and I currently only specialize in SEC reporting (not tax, not internal, not revenue, not fp&a, etc).... there's an even bigger world of specializations in law. Derek might not be cut out for a case like the one Jill would bring.
@elisabethscott67 I get it, but he certainly knows enough to seek out a contracts attorney to pursue the appropriate claims (fraud in the inducement would be just one of the claims). According to the book, they did pursue legal action and subsequently were awarded.
@@Nonameforyoudangit that's a really good point 😩
@@Pfpfpfpfpf2020I don't know what kind of lawyer Derek is, but litigation is long, painful, and expensive. A lot of people choose to avoid it for those reasons, even with legitimate claims. Additionally, there are statutes of limitations that likely have already passed before they knew they could have tried to sue.
I remember jill saying in shiny happy people that they thought they would be arrested for not following the contract… which of course also points to neglect in their education that they think that’s a thing that can happen for a civil issue . And also how that was used to manipulate and scare them
Great point. And the word "contract" means some heavy sh*t in the Bible.
Joy Duggar and her husband released a Q&A video today. They said they will definitely be reading Jill's book and Joy said she supports her sister. They also said they're not in the IBLP. When they were dating, they decided they weren't going to follow that teaching after they got married. So... there's that!
She actually fell just short of saying she supported Jill.
Jill asking what right her father has to comment on her uterus is her basically grasping the pro-choice argument, even if she never quite comes to regard it that way or articulate such a position.
The filming of the births is just too far imo. I remember watching Anna’s births and labors and I think Jill had her first baby before I had mine. Once I had my own kids and actually experienced birth myself and just how vulnerable and exposed you feel and how intense and sometimes scary it is... I can’t believe someone from the camera crew didn’t ever stop and say “ok hang on let’s not film this part/let’s give them some privacy” (ahem, Anna pushing a baby out on the toilet). You have little to no control over what your body is doing or what you’re saying or sound like. It’s just such a private time. I actually had a doula who would say that the baby’s birth should be just as private as the baby’s conception lol. Anyway, I remain upset for those ladies that they had all that filmed 💔
Yeah it’s horrible that they filmed the births. Anna is so sweet - it’s clear that she is so in the clutches of this cult and her abusive in laws and husband. She’s probably scared to death to leave because she knows she will be broke with 7 kids.
I was part of a Duggar snarker community at the time and the number of people mocking Anna for giving birth on a toilet was horrifying. Like, that's what birthing feels like! It feels like you have to poo! And sitting upright is a much better position to birth in, vs lying flat on your back.
Now that I know Anna was filmed when she really didn't want to, it makes it that much worse.
Knowing that I would sh*t on a table in front of other people during delivery is one of hundreds of reasons I have for not childbearing and it's probably higher on the list than it should be 🤣
It's definitely not for most anyway.
I'll never forget Josh down there yelling push baby! He wasn't the least bit scared! He's a pervert! I hope that Josh gets his payback in prison! He will probably get himself hated for his attitude! His sick smile turns my stomach!
By forcing his kids to become child actors he really brought the threat of the sinful world inside for Jill it seems. Turning them being abused and manipulated by the parents into them being watched and preforming their obedience for the world. Seriously sick stuff and both Jim Bob and Michelle should be charged with child abuse.
I think Michelle is a victim but is still culpable. JB needs a cell
@@helixmoore7636 yeah she’s less culpable but still culpable. As hard as it would have been she could have fought for her children to have rights and be protected instead of neglecting them, leaving them to parent themselves and ultimately forcing the girls into the same toxic paternalism that ruined her life and traumatised all the children especially the girls.
@@helixmoore7636 Michelle needs restorative justice, Jim Bob and men like him just need to be stopped.
Yeah for sure. It’s child abuse. Not unlike what’s happening in the Ruby Franke case.
I was a reversal baby. They were so proud to have made me, but it still didn't save the marriage lmao
Quite apart from the insight this provides into the reality of their lives, the financial abuse and the IBLP, this book also provides valuable insight into how TLC handled all this. Yes, it’s TV, yes reality TV is never really real, and yes it’s a business, but what happened to ethical oversight and protecting the rights of the minors? Even if Jim Bob was ok with this way of doing things, TLC producers had the opportunity to place some boundaries. All this highlights a huge gap in the space of children’s rights (on TV and online, in family vlogging for example) and a gap in either regulations or enforcement of regulations.
This this this!!!!!!! TLC is culpable full damn stop.
💯- laws need to be in place to protect minors from exploitation, labor, and compensation for their labor. The thing is, minors cannot give informed consent. They are too young and inexperienced to know what they’re consenting to. The film and TV industry has long abused and exploited children. It’s time that it ends!!
The more I learn about TLC’s business practices, the more I wonder why the FTC isn’t at their door step. The adult children deserve to have their chunk of income via direct deposit, not funneled through a parent
@@camcat26 TLC must have good lawyers. Almost all of their content is made off the backs of vulnerable people. "Toddlers & Tiaras" and "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" alone should be a reasons they should have an ethics board to keep them under control.
THIS is why I side-eye any supposed "parental rights" bullshit. It's a means of denying the rights of children as individuals and allowing their parents to treat them more like property than as individuals. It leads to, excuses, and fosters the kind of abuse that the IBLP was built to enable.
Heck, I've struggled all my adult life to find licensed therapists who AREN'T Christian and who DON'T try to force religion into therapy. The fact that Jill was able to find a therapist who was Christian enough for her comfort is absolutely the least surprising thing about the entire story.
Anti-Christianity future licensed therapist here ❤ Going through school right now for this exact reason
Keep looking! The religion of the therapist should not come into a therapy session. There are good ones out there! My daughter is one.
I’m a Christian therapist in training and bringing it into the session without invitation could threaten my entire career. It’s against the basic code of ethics. (As would be anti-religious sentiments with a religious client). I wonder if you leave in somewhere more conservative like the south? It wouldn’t be worth becoming a therapist where I live if I didn’t think I could follow that guideline. I’d never make it past licensing.
@andianderson3017 It happens everywhere. I live on the west coast and I went through three therapists because they used religion language (things like talking about a dead relative in heaven or God's purpose for me) after telling them I'm not religious. I think it was just an automatic thing because I know that's common speech in Christianity but I wasn't helping me at all.
It’s really kind of you to give them the benefit of the doubt, but nonetheless, it’s pretty brain dead for a counselor. We get A LOT of training in this. I guess I don’t know other state licensure requirements-but the ones I’ve heard all seem pretty high. I’m sorry they were so tactless, in any case. Sometimes I take it for granted that I was raised by a parent with a Master’s in Divinity and taught really complex theology from a lot of religions when I was young. My awareness is probably unusually high. I also lived in the Middle East where I did not want to get arrested for casual Christina references either. Ah well. I am sorry to hear this. I’m just seriously at a loss for how it happens. Even though I am devout in my faith, I think it’s a worse witness and critically unloving to ignore people’s boundaries and rights this way. It doesn’t generally result in conversions, just hurt and disrespected people. @@dreal2093
I hope the IRS is looking into JimBob and he ends up in prison next to his son.
I'm annoyed how everyone is still giving Michelle a free pass. She is just as a guilty as Jim Bob. She didn't protect her children either but he's the only one being blamed for it. Michelle is also a horrible person but since she was quiet and the woman everyone acts like she didn't do anything wrong.
Preach
I do have *some* sympathy for the teenage Michelle, who(IMHO)was groomed by JB(he’s often been quoted as saying that after their first meeting, he prayed to be her “spiritual leader”). The adult Michelle, who failed to protect her daughters from their pedophile brother? Not so much.
I've never understood that. Didn't SHE do the blanket training??? I look at her and immediately think "oh right that's the woman that HITS BABIES"
The last line being “we should get a photo, too” was honestly chilling.
Amazing episode! Feel better soon!!
Yeah I didn't really understand that!
@@Susannamfto me the end was chilling because even in the end Jim Bob was there for a picture and Jill instinctually knew that’s he wanted the picture.
Oh god I feel sick to my stomach.
@@spookymicah3131 maybe she also wanted a picture knowing her kids will probably not have a close relationship with their grandparents..
I read it as her having a measure of forgiveness for her parents.
I hope Jill and Derrick sue TLC and Intouch and make a big deal of this. Networks and producers have been exploiting and abusing children since the TV and movie industries began. There needs to be a reckoning for children! Children need rights - including when it comes to “influencers.”
No she did not invent the tater tot casserole. The casserole was first published in a recipe book in the 1930's. I'm so glad that is what I gained from this video. Love ya.
Jill is a queen and honestly she doesn't need her dad anymore. And Jim Bob is the best definition of a narcissistic asshole
Under normal circumstances, you would be right.
Unfortunately, he stands as the gatekeeper to a lot of the younger members of her family, as seen by him not allowing her over if he wasn't there, so she does need him in order to access them.
He has created a really sick, twisted situation and I hope she, and her other siblings, realizes just how terrible a person he is in time and kick him to the curb because he doesn't deserve those wonderful grandparent moments.
“Funny” how Jim Bob says she’s embarrassing and shaming the family because of her nose ring and pants but Josh molesting his sisters is no biggie.
Tells us all we need to know about him.
And it was so obvious Michelle and Jim were not financially independent. That’s one reason I stopped watching. It was the unraveling of their fakeness and lies.
Wow. I had no idea it was this bad for Jill. I am proud of Jill. I left a cult with my two kids 20 years ago, and we lost everything. Our entire support system gone in a flash, because I was sinning by leaving my abusive husband. It takes extreme conviction and courage to pull yourself from the sticky hell of abuse, especially religious abuse. Thank you for breaking down this book for us.
I always liked Jill. I was one of the millions who watched 19 (18, 17) Kids and Counting. She always had this energy to her that made me like her. Hearing what her life was actually like and hearing her stand up for herself made me proud. When she got her nose pierced I was so happy as someone with hers pierced. Thank you Jill for telling your story
The text Jill sent her father was so impactful to read. I have a hard time setting boundaries in my family life and that text was so well written and her bravery is awe-inspiring.
One of her lines in the book talks about Guilt and Fear, and she had to overcome all of that to send that text. It’s just amazing to hear. I really think this book will help people, whether they were raised fundamentalist or not.
Jen, I will always appreciate how you stand up for trans people, whether it's pointing out Derrick's transphobia towards Jazz Jennings, or Allie Beth Stucky complaining about Dr. Barbie. You're right about how both things can be true about Derrick - that he can be a good husband who helped Jill break free[ish] while also being a transphobic asshole.
Aren't they both transphobic because she in her lived experience still learned it herself?
shes definitely complicit in it by not speaking out@@zflw64
@@zflw64 Yes, but Jill at least is quieter about it. Not to excuse her, but Derick harassed a transgender minor on twitter, which is much ruder and more disrespectful.
@@supercrazylegs1 being silent about is worse i feel cuz it's hidden and just you don't know
@@zflw64being silent isn’t the same as not grabbing the megaphone. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that not everything has to be online or public for our consumption. Seems like she never really wanted to be in the public eye like that. Point is we don’t know her views she hasn’t shared so it’s all just speculation.
That second contract gave Rumplestiltskin vibes "I'll give you wealth if you give me your unborn child"
Simon and Schuster, the publisher, has been one of the industry's leaders for a century. Founded by two Jews, of course, it's secular in a mostly Christian nation. It publishiles all faiths and political views. The firm has had relatively few controversies.
Fun Fact: Carly Simon, a founder's daughter, was inducted into the Rock and Rock and Roll Hall last year. Her most infamous song is 'You're So Vain'.
They also don’t hand out book deals for just anyone. Stephen King has his book deal with S&S. This is huge compared to Jinger’s Christian publisher. The Dillards have entered a new level.
honestly of everything about the duggars that's come out over the years, it's the financial abuse that has me the most shocked. growing up, my mom always told me and my sisters that the duggars didn't care about the money and this was all a ministry to them and (i don't know where my mom heard this) that the duggars often wouldn't even cash the checks from the show. as i deconstructed, i rethought a lot about the show, but for some reason i never once considered the financial aspect. if i'm entirely honest, it wasn't until shiny happy people that i had even made the connection that the show was based on child labor, and that the kids should be paid.
It hurts my heart to see her wishing her Father would stand up for her like he did for Josh. I think this is a sentiment shared by many kids whose parents were negligent and/or absent. I’m happy that she has the courage to come out with this book and be the voice for many who are silenced in abusive family dynamics.
I think Jen would like the book of Esther. It was my favorite book in the Bible and it was so empowering as a young girl. She was my Cinderella . Even now that I’m an adult, no longer a Christian and have mayor religious trauma I still find comfort and strength in Esther. As far as the Bible goes it’s one of the best portraits of women. It’s historical and exciting. Apparently I’m still very attached to it 😅
Yes! I used to stare at my illustrated Bible's story of Esther. She had a hold of my attention. Just a straight up BAMF!
I've read it over and over and over. I use to love it too.
I left the church too. So much confusion. But lots of the bible....still sticks with me. I love so much of what I read. The way God loved Rahabs heart and she became the mother of Boaz. Married one of the two spies, Salmon. A Hebrew warrior in Joshua and Calebs Army. Salmon loved her and didn't care about what ANYONE thought. He saw her heart and she believed in the God of the Hebrews. They raised Boaz and one day Boaz married Ruth, A women like his momma. I can't get over it. Makes me cry every time I think about it. So redeeming.
I'm also no longer religious, but I've found it so interesting how often we still cling to things from our religions.
I was confirmed under St. Joan of Arc, I'm no longer Catholic or Christian (agnostic), yet I still wear the medallion I got for confirmation every day so many years later. Some things can still serve us, even if we leave what hurts us behind
Same girl, same. I adore Esther. 🙌
unsure if its been mentioned: but authors 100% benefit financially from library use. libraries (in the US specifically) purchase the books & if they see a lot of people borrowing certain titles, they may buy more copies if physical. ebooks (including digital audiobooks) have their licensing renewed regularly and if those see popularity, theyll license more 'copies' for their patrons to have access to. So if you borrow from the library, you ARE supporting authors financially! this is good info to have for when you WANT to financially support but cant buy your own copies, or if you want to avoid support entirely.
great video, i just wanted to make sure everyone know about libraries!
Already crying at hearing Jen read Jill's dedicated page, it got me effed up. It means a lot especially now that I've finally began to understand my own religious trauma. Thank you for putting this out Jen❤
The bigotry Derrick has bums me out a lot but at the same time I feel like the two of them have the potential to move past that. They both seem biblically literate and I just hope that the right pastor enters their life or they are able to adjust their understanding. Purely statistically speaking, it would make sense for at least one Duggar kid to be queer so maybe that could help open their eyes
I also think as they get further on this journey of deconstruction, some of it will come naturally. As you unravel the way fundamentalism oppressed you, both men and women, the revelation of how queer people have been oppressed is likely to follow soon after. I don’t think they can reasonably educate themselves on religious trauma without eventually coming to the conclusion “queer people are fine”, at the very least. Derrick was raised with a “men should say what they want and should be listened to” mentality and was randomly shoved into a space where he could say whatever he wanted to millions of people, and I’m hoping it was just a severe miscalculation on his part and I hope his lack of having addressed this has been because of Jill speaking up about her abuse, because his apology would absolutely overshadow that. I’m hoping that Derrick one day talks about his own deconstruction, coming from the same patriarchal background from the men’s side.
I wasn't surprised at that at all, to be honest. If she had married a Catholic, a Jew, or, gasp, an atheist from Japan, that would have truly been surprising. But she married a white Evangelical Protestant man not too far from home. Of course he'd have bigoted views. Just the fact that he doesn't view her as property already shows growth on his part. Deconstruction takes time.
I love that you felt middling about her not holding Jim Bob accountable ENOUGH, and her opinions about the parentification. Those gave me a lot of pause, too. But she's in real therapy and can continue to work through that. Otherwise this book was a really fascinating read
Probably unpacking the parentification is painful because she genuinely loves the siblings put in her charge, so maybe unpacking it makes her feel like she’s rejecting those kids. Plus she got genuine dopamine hits out of the praise she got for being Sweet Jilly Muffin. I’m not about to deny dopamine. LOL I’m sure she’ll get around to unpacking this.
@@autumnmoonfire3944this is a good point
Duggars: "A bad thought only becomes a sin if you dwell on it."
Me: Cries in OCD
This is why I hate the "Bootstrap" mentality. People who watched the Duggars thought that these people who had a TON of kids were not taking assistance and no "welfare" queen scenarios when they were selling their children and themselves for a house and food. So, ummmm assistance, right? SMH
for real. these freaks never actually follow their own rules. and on a similar note, advocating against birth control when you have so many kids you can't even take care of them properly would make me want to start birth control immediately lmao
What really tickles me about the whole shouting Nike thing is that they are shouting out the name of the ancient Greek goddess of Victory! 😂 Very pagan of them!
Much more appropriate and godly to just shout “shoe” one would have thought. I need to buy this book, thank you Jen ❤
I thought about the irony myself. At first I thought they couldn't wear Nike because of the pagan name
I never watched the show so I had no idea what she was talking about at first.
There was literally an ancient civil uprising (that started as a sports riot) that involved the rioters shouting "Nika!" (cognate with Nike). Seriously. Look up the Nika Riots.
I looked up what Derek Dillard said that got everyone so upset:
“Transgender is a myth. Gender is assigned by G-d.”
And “Jazz Jennings is being exploited…I pity him.”
Well, I don’t agree with his first statement, but I absolutely agree that Jazz Jennings has been brutally exploited, by her parents and by the network. What TLC did to Jazz should have been illegal. I call Jazz Jennings “she/her” because that’s what she wants to be called, and because she isn’t a physical threat to anyone.
It’s so hard. It feels like she’s only just starting to come to terms with how much her childhood must have negatively impacted her. She will probably stop minimizing the older she gets.
Not only not having the same financial rights as child “scripted” actors, reality child actors also don’t have the same labor rights in terms of working hours, schooling of course, etc. really sick stuff
Dude I just got to watch Shiny Happy People and I was SO STOKED when I was casually cleaning listening to the documentary and I HEARD JENS VOICE!! I looked up so excited! Lol love you so much!!
I've just started the video, but i wanted to say as someone raised evangelical and no longer religious at all, it breaks my heart that the message of Christ is so supportive of the oppressed and encourages them to stand against it and Christians just turned it into a complex in order to oppress everyone else. Psalm 9:9 reminded me of this
Yeah it’s gross how so many “Christians” act nowadays…so hateful and the opposite of the example Jesus set. Apparently they’ve forgotten “WWJD”.
this has been on my mind lately. grewing up southern christian conservative and ive been nonreligous for about a decade now and am currently really focusing on my relationship w the poor and homeless- there's a lot of ingrained hatred towards them in christian communities. that a homeless person must be drug free and appealing to you, must be a 'correct' version of a homeless person to be worthy of care. when all the bible asks is for you to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give to the poor and visit the imprisoned. no caveats. it's... weird to see the mental gymnastics at work vis a vis the reality of christianity/evangelicals.
The problem is that radical conservatives/ fundamentalist Christians consider themselves to be oppressed and "wokeness" (aka: acceptance, accountability, and inclusivity) is the oppressor.
yeah I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately too - I was raised mormon and I just can’t help but be disgusted at the fact that they took christ’s message of love and peace and turned it into a way to abuse and shame people. it’s truly sick.
Psalms and Proverbs come from the Torah
Thank you so much for your description of Jill as a CSA survivor around the 5 minute point. Being abused by someone you care about is complicated.
Sharing these details (on her own terms) must feel so freeing. Someone had to expose the darkness behind the Duggar Empire and she's made that sacrifice. Well done, Jill.
Her putting the ESV instead of KJV spoke volumes. Little things like that shows me where she is now. I hope she continues to heal.
Mere words could never express how much these episodes mean to me, especially the Duggar ones, since my (violently abusive) parents adored them and mimicked them as much as possible (the Duggar's books were mainstays in the household, too). The mental and emotional healing after watching you cover them is insane. Thank you so much for all the research and time you put into these, you make my mental and emotional health skyrocket afterwards.
A little off topic, but thank you for the “deconstruction does not have to end in atheism comment.” I’ve been struggling with deconstructing my own faith and it’s nice to see that I don’t have to go down a road I don’t want to be on.
I don't like that Jim Bob gets no meaningful consequences. I hope some of the Duggars do go 'no contact'.
'Hey Joseph, why don't you read this book right here? It's got a witch in it." I am dying lmaooooo
I hope Jill knows how sharing her story will help so many people.
Maybe being a Gothard girl - even if “nothing happened” - is the reason Jana has no interest in marriage. Bill Gothard is a absolute creep
One more comment from me - not only are the Reverend Jen and Mr. James funny to listen to, there's another aspect of the Fundie Friday channel that totally cracks me up. The way they insert their faces into family photos of whomever they are discussing, as if they were in the original photo, is so frickin funny. I spend time looking at the way they photoshop themselves into the scenes. OMG I love it. The laughter I have from this channel is over the top. Laughter is considered as medicine for the soul, or yoga for our organs. With the amount of healthy laughter and giggles I get from Jen and James, I'll live to be 100. Thank you for sharing your discussions, opinions and thoughts. Thank you for the laughter and giggles. If more people in our world were as enjoyable as you two, our world would definitely be a much better place to exist in. Cheers!!
If the rules were consistent and you always knew what was expected of you and what would get you in trouble, I can see taking comfort in that. That's one of the things that I hated the most about my own upbringing - the rules were not consistent. And that often led to my brother and I being punished and we didn't know why.
That said, I know that my own upbringing, while abusive, was on a completely different level from what Jill went through. As much as my parents favored my brother and their expectations for him were completely different from what they expected from me, I can't imagine them ever reacting the way Michelle and Jim Bob did if something even remotely close to what Josh did to Jill and the other girls were to happen to me. Well, I can't really imagine my brother ever doing something like that to me either, but you get the idea.
From what I've seen and heard about the Duggars (and IBLP in general), it seems like boys are always the priority and always given the benefit of the doubt while the girls are pushed into the background and... not exactly ignored, but more... blamed whenever possible. If that makes sense?
The word you're looking for is "scapegoated"
My family did the IBLP thing for a while. My mother now calls it Male Supremacy.
I truly appreciate the respect you show for others and their faiths. You call out the insane hypocrisy and so you make it about the actual truths without generalizing others. You are a first step for people trying to be brave and step outside and think about abuse without scaring them away.
Thank you providing the Fundie Friday view of the book! I also purchased the audio version of the book. I was comforted by hearing that the girl Duggars all came together to help Jill after her tough second pregnancy/delivery where she and the baby could had not made it. They brought food, helped with dishes, laundry and watching her little boy. The series seemed like it started with good intentions…then the green eyed monster overtook Jimbob just like it did with Kate Gosselin. Then the TLC contracts ruled everyones lives at ALL costs. Godbless Jill and Derek and John Gosselin for having the courage to walk away from these restraints. I am glad Jill wrote the book….I hope this heals her and the Duggar family by undoing the shade Jimbob cast upon her and Derrick. It seems like there is still alot of love in that family 💕
The irony of this people of lying in the same breath that they condemn “sinners” never ceases to amaze me.
Yes, literally breaking a commandment while they hold themselves to be so high and mighty. I would like to see them all fall.
I’ve been saving this video for three days as I work at a solicitors (attorney/lawyers for Americans). I’ve been binging FF’s videos while I go through legal documents - I’m so excited to listen while I read about other peoples legal issues 🎉
Just finished. What an incredible read. So happy for Jill and all that she’s accomplished. I know there’s more work to do still, but she’s come SO far!
I finished the book a couple of days ago and I’m just bummed you’re doing this live while I’m on vacation and trying to get my grubby kids into a bathtub 😂
Hoses exist for a reason. 🙂
Grubby kids 😂
Off topic, but you look so happy and healthy lately Jen. Like you are just in full glow ❤. I hope that aligns with your reality. You and James deserve all the happiness and opportunities life has to offer. Much love from PA.
I wonder if there any legal recourse she can take to get some money out these greedy little parents she has
Never would I have bet on JILL being the one. Bought the book, never been so proud of a stranger. 🖤
Jen, and James, you are so funny, and fun to listen to, no matter who or what you're talking about. I love the content you choose to discuss but I love your humor even more. I wonder if all your listeners/subscribers think you're as funny as I do. And the best part of your humor is that you're just speaking with honesty. Whenever I'm having a bad day, I turn to your UA-cam channel and listen to you. And if I've caught up and watched all of your content, I'll listen to one of my favorites over and over because you're funny over and over again. Thank you for allowing your thoughts be public. Thank you for sharing.
she is the definition of perseverance! the way that she admits to being so physically overcome with anxiety but still ALWAYS does right by her kids is so admirable
Michelle and Jim Bob definitely did not do their best with the whole Josh situation. They consistently put Josh ahead of their daughters and just wanted to sweep it under the rug and pretend it never happened - which ofc gave Josh the opportunity to do it again. I suppose if by "do their best," they mean try to protect Josh from the consequences of his actions? Okay, yeah - they did do their best to try to shield Josh. But that was done at the expense of their daughters, physically and mentally.
And when Jill says they got her counseling? I have a feeling that's a Biblical Counselor, which is not a regulated or licensed profession (although some churches like to issue "licenses" to the counselors they train to make them look more legitimate than they actually are). I've been to a Biblical Counselor - it was basically Bible study and prayer hour. It was not at all helpful and I told Mom that I didn't want to go back after the first visit (she kept insisting there was "nothing wrong" in the first place, so she was happy about it). So if Jill's experience was anything like mine? I can't see that being at all helpful - especially if it was someone who bought into the IBLP BS about men sexually assaulting women being the fault of the woman.
Well, under the high control situation in that family, I'm not really sure how much agency Michelle really has (or thinks she has). She is his first victim, after all. He groomed her from the moment they first met. It's all over Shiny Happy People with the way she always gazes at him adoringly whenever he's speaking.
The thing is that if the cops had followed procedure instead of protecting Josh AGAIN, the girl's names would have been redacted properly. So it's not InTouch magazines fault, it's more fallout from Josh mattering more than the girls still.
I saw Jinger a couple weeks ago at a children’s museum in Southern California and it was surreal because I’d just watched the Duggar doc. She looked very “normal” compared to how I’ve always seen her on the Duggar show.
It helped me a lot in my healing to realize that the abuse wasn't mine, but my parents. My grandfathers weren't nice men to their spouses or their children and seeing how it carried over into how my parents raised us, knowing they can't do better if they don't know better, was instrumental in my process.
Thank you for going over this. Feel better soon. If you're a tea person, Hibiscus with rose buds and orange peals is really nice with sinus issues.
Great job on this breakdown. I wish I’d made mention of Josh’s cancel club he did with his buddies in mine.
His arc through the book is so unsettling.
As someone who lived around Silver Dollar City for years, dodging the Duggars there is a whole ass mood.
“Burn it down, Jill! I’m tired of this!” I was rolling 😂😂😂
I thought the book was raw and real. I cried at the end.