LMS ROTATING GARRATT BUNKERS Rotating coal bunkers as fitted to ALL except two of the 33 Garratt's, was a system of automating "coal trimming". The fireman on a coal fired engine often has to climb into the coal bunker to shovel "tons" of coal forward to the front of the tender. So that he can then reach it from the footplate. Coal bunkers as a result often had a floor that partially sloped forward, which encouraged the coal to slide forward as the fireman used the coal nearest to the footplate. But on long tenders the Sloping part was often only near the front. So on the very large Garratt tenders as built, the system of sloping floor was very limited in its help of making coal slide forward. Hence the steam operated rotating drum system, ensured that virtually all the coal would slide forward as required, whenever the drum was given another rotation or two !!! The class was withdrawn between 1955-58. Before the days of the "preservation movement". GARRATT's ALMOST WORLDWIDE ! The Garratt concept originally designed by an Australian called Garratt, was quickly sold to the Beyer Peacock locomotive manufacturer in Manchester UK. The Garratt principle of articulated locomotives was admirably suitable to the problems in many British Empire Colonies & elsewhere. Where lightly laid railway lines meandered into the interior, for the primary purpose of extracting valuable commodities. That would be transported to the nearest coast, so these commodities could then be shipped to Britain. WHY THE "GARRATT" IS SUCH A CLEVER PRINCIPLE ! The problems were the lightly laid tracks, & the nasty curves, to try and avoid expensive structures such as viaducts & tunnels. Hence if you built a steam loco like a "Garratt" with two "engines" (wheels, valve gear & cylinders) on two separated chassis. With girders slung between the chassis's & articulated in three sections. You first cured the problem of axle load on lightly laid tracks, by spreading the weight over a much greater distance. You solved the problems of nasty curves by having two shorter chassis's instead of one extremely long rigid one. You provided huge power by having two chassis's powered by one short but very large diameter boiler. Itself only possible because there were no wheels beneath the central "bridge" girders, where the smokebox boiler & cab are located. Over the two chassis's you then had huge space to provide a large coal bunker, and very large water tanks. As a result more than a THOUSAND Garratts were built to operate in Australasia, Asia, South America, Africa & Europe. Only North America did not have Garratts. In Britain only the LMS type as modelled, and the solitary LNER "Wath Banker" for standard gauge service were built. 34 in total. South Africa was one of the biggest users on both its 3ft 6in gauge main network & 2ft 6in gauge feeder lines. Australia & New Zealand had quite a few. As did places like India, Nepal, Ceylon, Burma, Thailand, Sudan (Desert version), Iran, Turkey, Madagascar, Maritius, Sierra Leone, Northern & Southern Rhodesia, Congo, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Uganda, Mozambique, Angola, Tanganyika, Egypt, Algeria, Libya, Bolivia, Brazil, Columbia, Peru & Argentina, In Europe Spain & Russia in addition to Britain. The most outrageous Garratts were built by the French (under licence from Beyer Peacock) for use in Algeria. They were a huge semi-streamlined 4-6-2+2-6-4 EXPRESS passenger design, that supposedly could streak across the Sahara Desert at reliably recorded speeds of around 80mph !!!
Some fantastic facts there, thank you so much for such an indepth response, will pin this to the top so anyone looking for further reading can enjoy it as much as I have 😊
Just running thru your back catalog and came to this. What a stunning loco - and for a measly £90! I’d live to get hold of one of these - or the new LNER one - to see it run round my layout. I’d have to go out and buy a big rake of coal wagons to go with it, of course. Oh dear. What a pity 😊. Keep up the vids Hylt - I know you’re in the land of modelers block right now but your mojo will reappear. Just think of this thing running round with 40+ coal wagons. That’s Inspiration right there!
Hello there :) Thank you so much for watching, I was equally impressed at the price to be honest. You are so right, she would look magnificent with a long winding rake behind her. Thank you for the encouraging words, it means a lot and I am already feeling much more enthused! Keep well!
For me, the Garratt's hold an important place because I grew up within walking distance of Beyer Peacock who made them, and now live in Australia where they still run on preserved lines. I actually live a few Km from the Puffing Billy narrow gauge line which has at least a couple of them in steam. I do hope your Heljan model works well as many folks complain about running issues.
Hello 👋🏻 wow some really wonderful history there, that’s really cool 😎 did you ever manage to pop in to the factory? That’s brilliant, you are very lucky to see them running, sadly haven’t seen one in steam in SA before. It seems to be holding up so far, let’s hope this luck keeps up. All the best, Hylt
Lovely model, I have one too in LMS livery as well as a DJH kit built South African GCA Class Garratt. Certainly the Suid Afrikaanse Spoorwee was a prolific user of the type! Groeten uit Nederland, Joachim
Hello Joachim, thank you for stopping by 😊 that’s brilliant, you are very lucky, I believe the DJH kits if made correctly are fantastic 🙌 I am learning a lot about Dutch railways through my mentor, great history you have on your side. All the best, Hylt
Hey Hylton, liking your channel. I learned about your load shedding issues last week from my SA colleagues, sounds challenging so well done for persevering. Nice video, thanks. David
Hi David, thanks for the kind words 😊 I appreciate it, yes it’s quite a frustrating situation, it’s definitely taken a toll on many levels but we persevere 😅 thanks again for the support. Hylt
Wow Hylt that’s an impressive locomotive. I have never heard of. Garret before, very unusual and looks great on your layout, especially as it has the South African connection. It’s a shame that none were persevered as I bet that would look amazing in real life. Well at least Heljan can allow modelers to bring them to life again. A great purchase and video. All the best Mark
Hi check out the Apple Express Garret making its way to Tauraco Town....if you not South African..that be Loerie...aka the Knysna Loerie Bird of which the town was named...for they were spotted in fruit trees all year round as my profile picture...and then obviously named by DR Livingston himself⭐😎💫🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃 Apple Express...Great Train Race...man against Steam
Hello Mark ☺️ so good of you to drop by again! Yes it is a real oddball loco, I believe Heljan are also doing a U1 Garrett soon, that was the LNERs version and a once off. Agree with you though, thank goodness for model railroading 👍 looking forward to your next video! Hylt
Very nice Hylton...memories of the Citrus trains...Apple express on the "Langkloof" route to Port Elizabeth🎉South Africa..through our stock farm....owned by my late parents John & Miems Lines
@@Proper_Chuffed hi there yes...great memories...ne on horseback riding to meetup with the train as it slowly started it's journey down to our town....through our farm.....and then when it came from it's trip to the *Langkloof and Krakeel/Joubertina returning with Apples, Pears, Pwaches tge size of Sweet melons! GRAPES and so much more🙏🏻🕊😭🛤forgotten rails the only sign now that the Apple Express made it's way there and little left of those farms now
Hello 😊 I hope you find one. Yes sorry I didn’t mean to infer Lima is bad by any means, they’re like the Toyota of model trains, strong runners no matter how much abuse 😂 thank you for stopping by. Hylt
As an American the Garratt is quite literally a foreign concept, but a truly fascinating one. You mentioned that someone does make an expensive model of a South African Garratt, are there any other locos from SA that have models made? They seem to be some very interesting designs, but I don't think I've ever seen models of them, although where I come from even European locomotives are hard to come by.
Hello there 😊 thanks for stopping by and for the comment. Yes rather odd creatures these Garratts, I must say, very impressive though, they demand attention 👌 however you have the mallets, also very impressive machines! Indeed we have some great history and unique locos, you can check out Precision Miniatures, they are the premium manufacturers of SAR models and have a broad range of locos from our lines. All the best. Hylt
A friend of mine builds models of South African, East African and Sierra Leone [narrow gauge] Beyer-Garratt locomotives - mainly in live-steam - to the scale of 1/24th, running on 45mm gauge track. You'd need to be rich though, although most Americans I know are rich.
Very true Jim, in fact you guys are some of the last running them in preservation. We currently have no garratts running sadly. Must make a plan to visit Aus and see some in action! Hylt
Congrats mate,the Heljan Barratt can be very finnicky and unreliable but yours looks great 👍Runs nicely too.A great addition to your fleet. Love the Boilerplate get it on the wall asap.All the best from the UK 🇬🇧
Thank you very much, yes I was a little worried but she seems to be running smoothly, even over point work which is a great relief 🙌 I’ll make sure to slap it up before the next video. Thanks for popping by! Hylt
New Zealand only ever had three Garratts, and they were a complete failure for many reasons, in stark contrast to the Australian and South African examples. Incidentally, at least three foreign Garratts have ended up being shipped to New Zealand in preservation (one of them is GMAM No. 4083, and another is a 15A class from Zimbabwe). As much as I'd like to get an LMS Garratt myself, she looks too big and impractical for my set-up. I think the largest steam engine I've got is either the LMS Turbomotive or a BR Standard 9F.
I knew there were some over there, had no idea it was so few! What were the reasons they didn’t work? It seems the landscape would be perfectly suited for them? She is large, for sure, and just makes it on 3rd radius curves. I absolutely love the weird ones, so it was a no brainer for me 😊
I forget all the reasons why NZR's Garratts were failures, but I do remember that a) they were too powerful for the couplers in use at the time; they entered service in 1929, b) their mechanical stokers were unreliable and c) the trains they could theoretically haul were too long for the crossing loops. They also used the same valve gear as the LNER A4 class, for whatever reason. In the end, the G class Garratts lasted less than ten years in service, and the engine units were reused in the construction of six conventional Pacifics.
Hi Hilton, Your Hailo is way off to the side. Can't you put it above your head. Oh my god, 90 pounds, I mised that one. I only know of one model train shop in Cape Town.
This model has been reviewed any times IT IS NOT a good model I bought two and ended up sending them back they were both unreliable and had trouble traversing point work IF YOU ARE prepared to work 9n them their faults can be ironed out but be prepared
Hi Michael, thank you for your insight here, I can only speak to the quality of my own, I am very much new to this. I’m sorry you’ve had such rotten luck with yours. Prior to purchasing I did try and find as much info on it as possible, it seems I was lucky in this regard. I’ll keep you updated should my luck change, let’s hope not 😅 Hylt
Hi. I suggest not using the dum dum dum background music. I'm in my 70's and for us oldies it makes it difficult to distinguish what you are saying and is also rather annoying. Stopped me subscribing. No doubt a few will tell you that's no great loss. They are entitled to their opinion, just like I am.
Hello Bob, thanks for the feedback, noted on this I will bear it in mind in future videos, makes a lot of sense. All the best and have a great day further 👍 Hylt
@@gordonhardwick5151 thank you very much for that info Gordon. Certainly will look into it, if you don’t mind me asking for a time stamp where you found this most egregious, as I can narrow down on the problem 😅 Appreciate it Hylt
LMS ROTATING GARRATT BUNKERS
Rotating coal bunkers as fitted to ALL except two of the 33 Garratt's, was a system of automating "coal trimming". The fireman on a coal fired engine often has to climb into the coal bunker to shovel "tons" of coal forward to the front of the tender. So that he can then reach it from the footplate. Coal bunkers as a result often had a floor that partially sloped forward, which encouraged the coal to slide forward as the fireman used the coal nearest to the footplate.
But on long tenders the Sloping part was often only near the front. So on the very large Garratt tenders as built, the system of sloping floor was very limited in its help of making coal slide forward. Hence the steam operated rotating drum system, ensured that virtually all the coal would slide forward as required, whenever the drum was given another rotation or two !!!
The class was withdrawn between 1955-58. Before the days of the "preservation movement".
GARRATT's ALMOST WORLDWIDE !
The Garratt concept originally designed by an Australian called Garratt, was quickly sold to the Beyer Peacock locomotive manufacturer in Manchester UK. The Garratt principle of articulated locomotives was admirably suitable to the problems in many British Empire Colonies & elsewhere. Where lightly laid railway lines meandered into the interior, for the primary purpose of extracting valuable commodities. That would be transported to the nearest coast, so these commodities could then be shipped to Britain.
WHY THE "GARRATT" IS SUCH A CLEVER PRINCIPLE !
The problems were the lightly laid tracks, & the nasty curves, to try and avoid expensive structures such as viaducts & tunnels.
Hence if you built a steam loco like a "Garratt" with two "engines" (wheels, valve gear & cylinders) on two separated chassis. With girders slung between the chassis's & articulated in three sections.
You first cured the problem of axle load on lightly laid tracks, by spreading the weight over a much greater distance. You solved the problems of nasty curves by having two shorter chassis's instead of one extremely long rigid one. You provided huge power by having two chassis's powered by one short but very large diameter boiler. Itself only possible because there were no wheels beneath the central "bridge" girders, where the smokebox boiler & cab are located. Over the two chassis's you then had huge space to provide a large coal bunker, and very large water tanks.
As a result more than a THOUSAND Garratts were built to operate in Australasia, Asia, South America, Africa & Europe. Only North America did not have Garratts. In Britain only the LMS type as modelled, and the solitary LNER "Wath Banker" for standard gauge service were built. 34 in total.
South Africa was one of the biggest users on both its 3ft 6in gauge main network & 2ft 6in gauge feeder lines. Australia & New Zealand had quite a few. As did places like India, Nepal, Ceylon, Burma, Thailand, Sudan (Desert version), Iran, Turkey, Madagascar, Maritius, Sierra Leone, Northern & Southern Rhodesia, Congo, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Uganda, Mozambique, Angola, Tanganyika, Egypt, Algeria, Libya, Bolivia, Brazil, Columbia, Peru & Argentina, In Europe Spain & Russia in addition to Britain.
The most outrageous Garratts were built by the French (under licence from Beyer Peacock) for use in Algeria. They were a huge semi-streamlined 4-6-2+2-6-4 EXPRESS passenger design, that supposedly could streak across the Sahara Desert at reliably recorded speeds of around 80mph !!!
Some fantastic facts there, thank you so much for such an indepth response, will pin this to the top so anyone looking for further reading can enjoy it as much as I have 😊
Just running thru your back catalog and came to this. What a stunning loco - and for a measly £90! I’d live to get hold of one of these - or the new LNER one - to see it run round my layout. I’d have to go out and buy a big rake of coal wagons to go with it, of course. Oh dear. What a pity 😊. Keep up the vids Hylt - I know you’re in the land of modelers block right now but your mojo will reappear. Just think of this thing running round with 40+ coal wagons. That’s Inspiration right there!
Hello there :) Thank you so much for watching, I was equally impressed at the price to be honest. You are so right, she would look magnificent with a long winding rake behind her. Thank you for the encouraging words, it means a lot and I am already feeling much more enthused! Keep well!
Stunning video yet again! Started the generator especially so I could watch, lol. Only in SA!
Thank you Rinke 😂 yes had to time this video, between recording and uploading 😂
Generators all day long
Wow . First time I’ve seen one running . It looks great
Hello Russel, yes I’m pretty impressed with it too, it’s smooth as butter, thoroughly pleased with it!
Hylt
For me, the Garratt's hold an important place because I grew up within walking distance of Beyer Peacock who made them, and now live in Australia where
they still run on preserved lines. I actually live a few Km from the Puffing Billy narrow gauge line which has at least a couple of them in steam.
I do hope your Heljan model works well as many folks complain about running issues.
Hello 👋🏻 wow some really wonderful history there, that’s really cool 😎 did you ever manage to pop in to the factory?
That’s brilliant, you are very lucky to see them running, sadly haven’t seen one in steam in SA before.
It seems to be holding up so far, let’s hope this luck keeps up.
All the best,
Hylt
@@Proper_Chuffed No I think the Gorton factory closed in the 60's? I did see the buildings as a kid though.
Lovely model, I have one too in LMS livery as well as a DJH kit built South African GCA Class Garratt. Certainly the Suid Afrikaanse Spoorwee was a prolific user of the type! Groeten uit Nederland, Joachim
Hello Joachim, thank you for stopping by 😊 that’s brilliant, you are very lucky, I believe the DJH kits if made correctly are fantastic 🙌 I am learning a lot about Dutch railways through my mentor, great history you have on your side.
All the best,
Hylt
Hey Hylton, liking your channel.
I learned about your load shedding issues last week from my SA colleagues, sounds challenging so well done for persevering.
Nice video, thanks.
David
Hi David, thanks for the kind words 😊 I appreciate it, yes it’s quite a frustrating situation, it’s definitely taken a toll on many levels but we persevere 😅 thanks again for the support.
Hylt
Wow Hylt that’s an impressive locomotive. I have never heard of. Garret before, very unusual and looks great on your layout, especially as it has the South African connection. It’s a shame that none were persevered as I bet that would look amazing in real life. Well at least Heljan can allow modelers to bring them to life again. A great purchase and video. All the best Mark
Hi check out the Apple Express Garret making its way to Tauraco Town....if you not South African..that be Loerie...aka the Knysna Loerie Bird of which the town was named...for they were spotted in fruit trees all year round as my profile picture...and then obviously named by DR Livingston himself⭐😎💫🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃 Apple Express...Great Train Race...man against Steam
TAURACO LOERIE BIRD
Hello Mark ☺️ so good of you to drop by again! Yes it is a real oddball loco, I believe Heljan are also doing a U1 Garrett soon, that was the LNERs version and a once off. Agree with you though, thank goodness for model railroading 👍 looking forward to your next video!
Hylt
Thanks once again Hylt....very nice memories for me👌🌟🙏🏻🚂
Very nice Hylton...memories of the Citrus trains...Apple express on the "Langkloof" route to Port Elizabeth🎉South Africa..through our stock farm....owned by my late parents John & Miems Lines
What a lovely memory that much be! 😊 before my time, I wish I had grown up with more steam 😭 thanks for support as always ✌️ Hylt
@@Proper_Chuffed hi there yes...great memories...ne on horseback riding to meetup with the train as it slowly started it's journey down to our town....through our farm.....and then when it came from it's trip to the *Langkloof and Krakeel/Joubertina returning with Apples, Pears, Pwaches tge size of Sweet melons! GRAPES and so much more🙏🏻🕊😭🛤forgotten rails the only sign now that the Apple Express made it's way there and little left of those farms now
I love the Garrett and am looking for one. Good buy. Btw I love Lima locos and have tons of them - perfectly good and simple locos.
Hello 😊 I hope you find one. Yes sorry I didn’t mean to infer Lima is bad by any means, they’re like the Toyota of model trains, strong runners no matter how much abuse 😂 thank you for stopping by.
Hylt
As an American the Garratt is quite literally a foreign concept, but a truly fascinating one. You mentioned that someone does make an expensive model of a South African Garratt, are there any other locos from SA that have models made? They seem to be some very interesting designs, but I don't think I've ever seen models of them, although where I come from even European locomotives are hard to come by.
Hello there 😊 thanks for stopping by and for the comment. Yes rather odd creatures these Garratts, I must say, very impressive though, they demand attention 👌 however you have the mallets, also very impressive machines! Indeed we have some great history and unique locos, you can check out Precision Miniatures, they are the premium manufacturers of SAR models and have a broad range of locos from our lines. All the best.
Hylt
A friend of mine builds models of South African, East African and Sierra Leone [narrow gauge] Beyer-Garratt locomotives - mainly in live-steam - to the scale of 1/24th, running on 45mm gauge track. You'd need to be rich though, although most Americans I know are rich.
They were used extensively here in NSW, Australia, very successfully too over the steep grades we have here.
Very true Jim, in fact you guys are some of the last running them in preservation. We currently have no garratts running sadly. Must make a plan to visit Aus and see some in action!
Hylt
I think they are developing a model of the LNER Garratt, which is even bigger!
They are indeed! Quite an exciting prospect, do you think you’ll get one? 👀
Thanks for watching
Hylt
Makes me think I should finish my DJH Garrett model.
You absolutely should, would love to see it!
Really nice addition to the layout! Will we eventually see grain hoppers being banked up the incline to the distillery?
Hey Martyn, thank you 🤩 I’m ecstatic about it! Oh most definitely, I will need to source some 🤔 perhaps next year when I visit the UK
Hylt
Congrats mate,the Heljan Barratt can be very finnicky and unreliable but yours looks great 👍Runs nicely too.A great addition to your fleet. Love the Boilerplate get it on the wall asap.All the best from the UK 🇬🇧
Thank you very much, yes I was a little worried but she seems to be running smoothly, even over point work which is a great relief 🙌 I’ll make sure to slap it up before the next video. Thanks for popping by!
Hylt
Wow what a great price!!!! Circa £190 secondhand in the UK😂😂😂
It is rather wild 😅 I check the eBay price and am gobsmacked by local prices here. 😅 thanks for popping in.
Hylt
Nice loco, get yourself a 12v car battery. If you keep it charged, it will power a train layout and a 12 volt light bulb or 2.
Hello James, thanks for dropping by, not a bad idea at all there 👍 will look into it.
Hylt
New Zealand only ever had three Garratts, and they were a complete failure for many reasons, in stark contrast to the Australian and South African examples. Incidentally, at least three foreign Garratts have ended up being shipped to New Zealand in preservation (one of them is GMAM No. 4083, and another is a 15A class from Zimbabwe).
As much as I'd like to get an LMS Garratt myself, she looks too big and impractical for my set-up. I think the largest steam engine I've got is either the LMS Turbomotive or a BR Standard 9F.
I knew there were some over there, had no idea it was so few! What were the reasons they didn’t work? It seems the landscape would be perfectly suited for them?
She is large, for sure, and just makes it on 3rd radius curves. I absolutely love the weird ones, so it was a no brainer for me 😊
I forget all the reasons why NZR's Garratts were failures, but I do remember that a) they were too powerful for the couplers in use at the time; they entered service in 1929, b) their mechanical stokers were unreliable and c) the trains they could theoretically haul were too long for the crossing loops. They also used the same valve gear as the LNER A4 class, for whatever reason.
In the end, the G class Garratts lasted less than ten years in service, and the engine units were reused in the construction of six conventional Pacifics.
Hi Hilton, Your Hailo is way off to the side. Can't you put it above your head. Oh my god, 90 pounds, I mised that one. I only know of one model train shop in Cape Town.
its ok. but wait till Big Bertha comes out, in model form next year
Hello Peter, thanks for the comment, is that the one from KR Models? I think it looks splendid, I look forward to it as well.
Hylt
hi, yes from KR models. can't wait
This model has been reviewed any times IT IS NOT a good model I bought two and ended up sending them back they were both unreliable and had trouble traversing point work IF YOU ARE prepared to work 9n them their faults can be ironed out but be prepared
Hi Michael, thank you for your insight here, I can only speak to the quality of my own, I am very much new to this. I’m sorry you’ve had such rotten luck with yours. Prior to purchasing I did try and find as much info on it as possible, it seems I was lucky in this regard. I’ll keep you updated should my luck change, let’s hope not 😅
Hylt
Hi. I suggest not using the dum dum dum background music. I'm in my 70's and for us oldies it makes it difficult to distinguish what you are saying and is also rather annoying. Stopped me subscribing. No doubt a few will tell you that's no great loss. They are entitled to their opinion, just like I am.
Hello Bob, thanks for the feedback, noted on this I will bear it in mind in future videos, makes a lot of sense. All the best and have a great day further 👍
Hylt
I agree. While I can hear your clear voice clearly, if what you’re saying is worth listening to, (and it is), you don’t need music as well.
@@gordonhardwick5151 thank you very much for that info Gordon. Certainly will look into it, if you don’t mind me asking for a time stamp where you found this most egregious, as I can narrow down on the problem 😅
Appreciate it
Hylt