Hey you actually bring a good point from an angle I didn't consider. Abandoning Go, or writing articles to poo-poo on Go sounds like a protest against Google for what they did.
Wait, they refer to the 92% statistic as "developers say python will replace Go" and towards the end the real statistic is 92% of people are satisfied or above with Go. Am I missing another statistic here?! One other stat is "what did you use instead of Go" that's barring IF they used something other than Go. And the other is IF they don't use Go, "what prevented you from using it". WHAT IS EVEN GOIN ON?!
As a backend engineer, I no longer give a fuck about which language to use for performance. The bottleneck is almost always databases, therefore, composing good queries with appropriate indexes is a lot more relevant then using "fast" languages for improving performance or response time IMO.
In my head there’s a point of scale at which it’s probably cheaper to add hardware to scale, and then a tipping point where a more performant language or code design can make a difference… and it’s partly how many servers you need to maintain and how much that costs.
Man, I wish. Imagine being able to do ML with a language that isn’t dynamically typed. Does Go have a package manager that isn’t as horrible as venv or conda? Because that’d be amazing as well.
If you just swap "Go" and "Python" in that article it actually makes some sense. Its like the author accidently typed "Go" every time they meant "Python" and vice versa.
The problem with python is that it allows you to write the shittiest code imaginable to get things running, but as you mature, you start to realize that the advantage it gives you, is also its biggest drawback. The notion that Python has been designed for cloud, when cloud did not even exist back then (1991!) is ludicrous, taking into account that Python is a single-threaded environment and can't scale past a single core without extreme hack arounds is laughable.
Yeah, I pretty much see Python as the perfect approach for 'quick and dirty' solutions that you forget about after you've used them when needed. It's great for tasks like batch reorganizing data or files, generating reports, or displaying some charts based on statistics to copy and paste into a PowerPoint. Once you're done, you forget about that script and the next time you need something slightly different, you'll write another script. It's pretty much the language for 'disposable' code. However, when it comes to building an API for a product that you have to maintain for years to come, I would never choose Python
Idk, as a primarily Python developer I've never really felt this drawback with all the typing tools available. I use it for quick and dirty work (hell, i usually open Python instead of a calculator), but I also use it for larger, sophisticated projects. The difference is that for any project I actually care about, I use MyPy (static type analysis). Honestly using MyPy feels similar to writing rust to me. Besides all that, I've never gotten into a situation where Python wasn't fast enough. Maybe other developers are doing a bunch of number crunching for some reason, but most of my code is backend stuff, working with network requests. The difference between a microsecond and a millisecond becomes pretty much irrelevant when the API's you work with have a 100ms latency, haha
Python and JavaScript are horrible to learn because of the eco system and tooling. It’s actually a dumpster fire. Go, on the other hand, does not suffer from such congenital defects.
What about deploying Go in an environment without internet? all golang packages are basically git repos. Is there a way to bundle them locally like with pip?
"What if 12,000 developers declared that Python will replace Go as the most used programming language in the world? " In all ranks for most used languages that I can find, Python is a lot more used than Go. This got to be written by chat gippity
Go ties with Powershell according to one survey I found. This one lists Javascript as the most used, and pretends that HTML/CSS is a programming language so they can list it second.
Those two languages are designed to do completely different things, but oh well. On a side note, I feel like eventually all paths will just converge back to C, and we'll give up on trying to create new things. There's so much drama around all of these things, and it's exhausting
How are they designed for completely different things? We use Go for everything at my job but we could have easily used Python. I am glad we didn't but either would have worked. There is significant overlap in their use cases.
C or Zig or Rust or Nim or Carbon and so on.... There's drama everywhere. But you have to think about business before languages. You won't build front-end components in C just like you won't write malware in Python (I know you can write malware with Python, but you shouldn't!).
I am learning Rust but choosing it over Go has been hard. Go is a no brainer for a lot of stuff imo, just free performance. I am not learn it right now paradoxically because it is easy to learn.
same, go is kind of boring, and I would pick it if I needed to actually build something quick, rust on the other hand is just more fun. there are more topics to explore and more rabbitholes to fall into, too
If choosing Rust over Go has been a hard decision then that is probably a good indication you should just be using Go unless you are just doing it for learning. When building a real project there should be very clear and substantial advantage if you are going to choose Rust instead of Go. For 99% of things Rust is not a good choice.
@@Nick-tm2sw99% is too broad and would mean that C++, C, Zig would share the same 1% as Rust. But I see the point you’re trying to make. If the goal is to create something very common (server, cli, daemons) Go is a free win. If the goal is to create something highly specific or needs to achieve 99.9999…% effectiveness then the boon of simplicity quickly converts into curse. Case in point memory arenas aren’t a stable Go feature and in many ways that’s the biggest caveat, that memory arenas HAVE to be a feature there is no way to roll your own w/out CGo and tricks. So maybe to rephrase for common projects that don’t target anything specific (fronted-ui, non-CI/CD cross-comp, novel architecture, zero-allocation, ML/AI, GameDev, etc) Go is a great choice and should be held as the default for the obvious and effortless gains. But don’t let it be a crutch that halts your development when what your asking for is something the language wasn’t designed to provide.
But there are more python developers than probably most languages besides JS, just look at the job market. Python just also shines in other communities. It's like saying that you only amateur soccer players, still there are more professional soccer players that in any other sport.
yeah they could be MLEng, DS / DatabEng / Data Analyst , Quatative Analyst write a lot of python as well many DevOps and Net Eng as well also people in Security industry writer a lot of python
This phenomenon is widely recognized in linguistics: the artificial creation of a language, as seen with languages like Esperanto, tends to fade over time. A similar principle applies to programming languages-they need to be organically developed and naturally expanded by their creators. Was this response better or worse?
Really have to try to think of a more ridiculous thing to compare to than Python. What I liked about Go is that you can just compile a statically linked executable and run it almost anywhere. Used it on some weird MIPS system once and it just worked. Python wouldn't even have fit in the couple MB of space that thing had.
I had never had even remotely the idea that go was a beginner-friendly, easy language until I started watching primeagen vids. apparently it has that reputation? I always thought of it as C but without manual memory management and with some niceties, and I wouldn't ever consider C a beginner language, nor would I consider manual memory management the only challenging thing about C. Go has less stuff to remember than Java or Python but I would say the simplicity and elegance make it far harder than either to write an application. If the goal is to know the language in and out, go in probably easier, but if the goal is to produce the same end product, go is far harder. Go doesn't get in the way, but it also forces you to be an engineer.
if you refer to "what color is your code" thing, all normal languages are "colorful". go has threads which "color" functions. instead of "await" you use channels and locks (or whatever they are called in go). notice that this splits functions into two groups: ones that do threads and ones that don't. the ones that do threads are usually on the outside. you can call the threading functions from normal ones, but async functions can too, in principle, be called from non-async ones (i believe, you can do it in python, just not though "await" keyword, but i'm not 100% sure) "color" is inescapable (because it is a mathematical property), but syntax and language construction can make it better or worse.
@@Daniel_Zhu_a6f the color means that the callers must be synced all the way to the top of the call stack to get the value. golang io operations are not async for example, you will get the output the succeeding lines without changing the function declaration. you need color to sync the async.
@@gcxs that is not true. you do not need any special syntax to make async in principle. i don't know what problem async calling convention solves. suspect it was something like JS: a buch of eager managers, 1-2 devs, two weeks of work, we all know the result. btw, i've poked around in ipython, just as i suggested in the previous comment, it allows you to create futures without "async def", and to "await" from normal functions. the keywords are just syntax sugar, that automatically creates coroutine objects and attaches them to correct threads, but you can do it all manually, no special calling conventions needed. again, "function color" is, essentially, a type of effect. so everything creates "color" from logging and inplace argument mutation to threads and async. effects are "inherited" by the caller function from it's callees. eg suppose `f1` does logs and `f2` writes to db, then `f3` that calls `f1` and `f2` indirectly has both logging and db writing effects. they just do not have any special calling conventions. async does not need to have one too.
@@gcxs btw, did u know, "print" was a keyword in python2? now it's a function in python3, so you can redefine it in your code to switch off printing from a whole module in a single line. if async&await were normal python functions, you would be able to switch them off in a few lines. this illustrates, that async syntax is a problem, not the "function color"
@@akshay-kumar-007 For writing backend applications, I believe the most important property the language should have is expressiveness: ability to concisely express complicated business logics. Developers spend most of their time for not writing codes, but reading codes, so code readability does matter the most. In terms of expressiveness and readability, Python is a pretty solid choice I think.
LOL Python is 'designed' to help developers take advantage of cloud development/deployment... This is gold... The creater maintainer of virtulenv left python because it was hot garbage. Java, Go and other binarys are so much easier to deploy.
Pretty sure python wasn't at all designed for servers and the cloud. Meanwhile yes Go's whole point was to have a language to make cloud and servers easier
I use Python everyday but I think there's something interpreter should not do like somewhere JavaScript shouldn't be. It can do almost everything, yes. But should it do that job? I don't think Python can create fast Micro Services or create Fast Operating System. There're the place where the specific programming language shine. For Cloud/Micro Service nothing beat Go, for System Dev nothing beat Rust, For Front-End nothing beat JavaScript, for Machine Learning nothing beat Python.
I think Python is just convenient for Machine Learning, but it is not reliable as far as performance is concerned. In all, Python is just neat and convenient to work with, good for PoCs, but not much else.
I literally just finished to re-write a python application in go! When you do not want to ship an entire runtime and need to get things done fast, Go is the way
@@willerto depends on what one means by runtime. you ship a native executable which contains the go runtime. It works out of the box: no dependencies, no interpreter needed. With python you need to make sure that the target system has the python ecosystem installed etc.
I don't understand the premise. Python is already used more than Go and Go has never been "the most ued programming language in the world". So how would it "replace Go as the most used programming language"?
Yes! I also have a coffee cup on my desk that reads “World’s Greatest Dev!” - By the way, choosing a different programming language doesn’t make up for the absence of problem-solving skills.
00:07:00 Using Go at home decreasing could be _because_ it is increasing at work ie. people were using it as a hobby language until their work picked it up, now they don't feel the need to use it outside work.
If the amount of people who use go outside of work is decreasing and the number of people who work in Go increases, could mean many people are transitioning into work in Go
You know the sad thing about articles like this.. a LOT of naïve developers and others in positions of decision making will refer to something like this as why they chose python over Go... likely didn't even read most of the article. It's like in the 90s when our CEO would make us use Microsoft stuff because a friend of his used it at their company and it was good. Despite all of us wanting to stay on linux.. we had no choice. So sad that so many people are easily influenced without details.
I am a Python developer. I would use go for many things instead of Python. Especially if I need to do any kind of multithreading. GO is just better for those tasks. I would "GO" a step further and say that IF I had time I would go back and rewrite most things in go. At this point, I use Python only because i am very knowledgeable in it and it is easy and fast to write in. The guy who wrote an article can't read the material he is citing.
Agree with most of this comment. But Python is a more expressive language, better for people who can do OO without shooting their feet, so I would use Go where it’s really strong.
The thing is that most people hate what they use at their day job and thus praise other tools because they take them less seriously and don't associate their job with it
@@nandoflorestan I almost never use OO parts of Python. The last time I wrote a class that wasn't a dataclass was 4 months ago. I usually find OO code in Python unnecessarily bloated.
@@heroe1486 I love python. I would keep using it forever. I know it so well and I am so fast with it. But, I am tired of trying to "fix" Python's limitations. There are 2 things that kills it for me. 1) Is incredibly cryptic and weird implementation of necessary libs. Try to understand how is your class in SQLAlchemy is initiated, good luck. 2) Performance.... You just hit the ceiling and thats it. Yes, there are ways to make it faster or use Cython or Numba in some parts but come on... Not to mention multithreading issue. When I write in Golang there are other issues that are blowing my mind. Some of those things are just me being stubborn and trying to do everything the python way. Still, would choose Golang over Python long term. I just think that Golang is more viable long term.
@@nandoflorestan "But Python is a more expressive language, better for people who can do OO without shooting their feet" Python is one of the worst languages available for OO. Its support for it is rudimentary at best.
In my experience, go is MUCH better in cases where you need to implement something a bit more complex that needs some sort of performance and reliability, but would rather prioritize developer productivity over raw speed (aka not choose a systems language). I think that most userspace software is in that category, and go is probably the best language in that case. Python is not going anywhere, but if anything it'll lose a bit of usage to go instead of the opposite imo
The thing I really love about medium, is their cute attempt to limit how many trash articles I can read before they try to force me to login or pay and I just laugh... close the incognito tab... and open another one where they have no idea who I am and like somebody with alzheimers, they forget and start counting again :D
I do prefer go for scripting then python and this is a python niche. It does nothing great nowadays you have better alternatives, well may be AI but I suspect this will not last long.
I agree 100%. I'm just on the hate python camp though; it's just absurdly difficult to deal with versioning because you can shoot yourself in the foot without realizing it (system wide installs).
python hater gang 😎 jokes aside tho, python is way too faulty imo, there's way too many issues that make it not performant enough, I'm reaching the point where I'm more accepting of javascript than python even though javascript is a terribly designed language. There are "moves" toward making python slightly better like removing the GIL (which will take years to be done) and the slow slow process of moving toward pyproject.toml (even tho pip is still straight garbage and virtual environments are kinda a hack for python's lack of proper versioning). wheels aren't the best for shipping python is not a great experience and the whole language seems to hate you and your computer. lacks very basic features and tries to give them back by either overloading other features thru decorators and dunders or adding a runtime like pydantic to get type validation. there's way too much putting python back. on the bright side, if all you're doing it writing a small script with not many dependencies that's not supposed to be constantly running python is great. it works and unless you're doing something computationally intensive it's all you need. so I think for the data science folks code golfing data visualizations and AI prototypes it's fine.
You don’t use virtual environments? Everywhere I have worked uses virtual environments. You can never shoot yourself in the foot here, because you can always set up a virtual environment.
I'm a C# developer at heart but my go to language for my next project will be go. It seems the easiest language to use to spawn multithreaded services in the background without digesting too many concepts.
@@Nick-tm2sw Two of Python programmers I've helped in the past... It's their first language... They learned it because they were told or read ' it's a great first language '... I'm not sure why people say that about Python. I used it for 6 months... wrote some applications and it turned out to be the worst language I've used... I had MORE fun using node for systems programming ( long story involving available private libraries ).
This article seems like a sad but common "journalism" job: 1. take some stats that do not provide any significant conclusion 2. choose a title that fits your agenda, then write the article (but don't think too much about it, this is not important) 3. include random references to the stats in your article, regardless of what stats say (or not) or whether they confirm your saying
This article is so wrong. Some people think the language needs a ton of features; so that every programmer can contribute to a ransom-note. Maybe Python performance will stop sucking so bad at some point. Needing to include a runtime, that a user has to deal with is a big problem. (Especially for Java, where Oracle lawyers show up to get a cut when you start to ship your code.). Python packaging is still a mess if you fix its performance problems. Go is great for writing network services and CLI apps. Show me Mojo making static binaries, with no runtime to install... and I might switch.
Python is a terrible language full of bad design decisions. It has to go. The only reason it's relevant at all is all the math libraries that are pushed by big corpos.
That's NOT what the text states. Pasting it here: "What if 12,000 developers declared that Python will replace Go as the most used programming language in the world?" "AS THE MOST USED" is the key. And that's 100% of programmers who believe this, not only 12 thousand. Because it's ALREADY true. Go was actually NEVER more used than Python. Never was said the would stop using Go and use Python instead.
I don't see how this would ever be a reality, python does not have static typing (type hints don't count the last time i checked, they are wonky), go has much nicer concurrency primitives than python's asyncio
Well, even JavaScript is not considered a "good" language my experts because of its "loosey-goosey" nature, but it is used extensively in the industry. I do not think language features dictate popularity. There are other factors at play.
What do you mean type hints don't count? I use MyPy static type analysis, and really it feels no different that something like TypeScript. Python also has great generics, making complicated types possible. Not sure what you mean with them being wonky.
Actually Python has a very good type system for an OO language (not for a functional language). Python can do concurrency but some people don’t get it. The preference in Python to optimize for single threaded code is being removed, starting just yesterday (the GIL is now being made optional)
@@sumitmamoriatrue but the article is talking about replacing. There are programs that really need reliable typesafety (and performance) and hence you can’t replace them with python. The core of the article isn’t about popularity.
Hi @Theprime I have been facing an serious issue with vim.....I learnt vim by watching your videos today it is my go to editor.... However why I am trying to copy code from vim to clipboard it is not happening..... Could you please tell me how to do it???
I could probably list 10 reasons why I'd use python over go, and ofc none of them exist in this article. I could just as easily list 10 reasons why I'd use go over python. They both turing complete, I don't see what the fuss is about
Why so? Web dev inherently deals with network latency, which makes "C vs Python" type speed comparisons have practically no meaning. Since many people consider Python's speed its main bottleneck and seeing that its of no importance in web dev, I'd say it's perfectly fine to use Python.
@@schlopping Except your response latency is much higher, why do you think the latency exists in the first place. Your argument is void when you consider server client applications, or even decently complex and secure Rest API's
The problem with these articles is that they become part of the internet memory; next time someone searches to understand the pros and cons of using Python and Go, they will get influenced by shitty articles. Especially when language models ingest this information and spew this out as a valid opinion.
Back in the day I’ve been a ruby webdev for five year there was a loud article or presentation few times a year saying ruby will die soon. Many years passed by and ruby still has its market share growing a bit occasionally
Thank you for paying on our behalf🤣. I want to start learning Go and when I saw this I was like "maybe no" but now that you paid the price it is a "maybe yes".
The day Python has strong and static typing, is compiled, has good performance, and can easily have parallelism and concurrency is the day I'll pretend to consider it. (Some of these things are somewhat implemented in Python and some others are being discussed. Doesn't matter).
@@angelocarantino4803 I program in it at work every day. Wrote a complex system in it. I just don't consider it good/enjoyable enough for big team projects, even though some people can really make it shine and love working in it. Not for me though, there are better alternatives.
What's an OS ? Do you mean Jupyter ? Python's never going to replace anything that compiles or that has static type checking. Python don't enforce the bare minimum of coding hygiene nor computer knowledge, unfortunately, this has lead the Python community on a downward path were the average Python dev is less and less skilled (idiocracy kinda thing). And that's a shame because the language has many useful trick (but also a lot of pitfalls).
I might be off base here, but my experience with typing in Python has been great. The type system in recent years is surprisingly robust, with generics, variable types, etc. I could do something like: def f(x: list[T]) -> T: ...
@@schlopping Agree with you, I find this new typing system very useful. But at the same time, if I want strong typing, why not just use a statically typed language ?
@@MrIlsundur Because you can somehow temper that with type hints + mypy (and other problems due to the rich ecosystem) and other languages may not have what you want, being a wide ecosystem and community, a fully featured web framework, or even being suited and popular for specific domains like data science or ML. Choices are often not that simple.
Are programming languages really that hard for (already a developer) to pickup? Almost everything is C style syntax anyway. Them most confusing thing that I have to learn is imports/namespaces after that it’s all ecosystem, tooling, and idioms there on. Lastly if you think python is suitable for the cloud I dare say you’re understanding of computing and programming is shallow at best
Prime, I wonder if the reason the number of interested devs using it outside of work was decreasing because those devs then began using it in work the next year. Seemed to be a clear correlation where the number of interested was dropping but the number of people using it in work was growing.
>On one hand, there are developers who think that Python is more suited to advanced software development and that Go should be used for simpler applications Simple CLI shit is literally what Python is best at.
Go is created by Google.
Google fired 12,000 employees this year.
12,000 developers declared that Python will replace Go.
Coincidence?
Hey you actually bring a good point from an angle I didn't consider. Abandoning Go, or writing articles to poo-poo on Go sounds like a protest against Google for what they did.
Hm! Good point
they were let Go
The racism in chat and this stream is real, the anti-indina behavouirs from comments to even the primegan was disgusting
unsubbing
Or is it?
+12,000 carpenters declare that screwdrivers will replace hammers.
But did you pay money to read that article?
@@ThePrimeTimeagen how much was it??
Those 12000 are just data scientists, not developers
@@deathrace-bx5neshade thrown 😂
Saying that python will replace Go is like saying that solar energy is going to replace cars lol
Person1: I want to go to that city 50km/20miles away
Person2: jump on the light
This is such a dumb ass type of argument.
python has a way higher adoption rate than any other language
Or more like saying fossil energy will replace renewable energy
@@ibrahimshehuibrahim918 i was pointing out that they are used for different puposes
Wait, they refer to the 92% statistic as "developers say python will replace Go" and towards the end the real statistic is 92% of people are satisfied or above with Go. Am I missing another statistic here?! One other stat is "what did you use instead of Go" that's barring IF they used something other than Go. And the other is IF they don't use Go, "what prevented you from using it". WHAT IS EVEN GOIN ON?!
People just read headlines. This is our normal now.
@@tylert2413they barely read headlines even.
The survey was probably done in Javascript, and the if statements were messed up with True ===== "false" or something ...
The retard author wailing on about the social media age couldn't research anything because he is a brain dead scum sucking moron
@@tylert2413 I stopped reading news when headlines became significantly different from the content of articles
What I learned: anyone and I mean anyone can write an article
True
everthing is a fake bro !!!
I used to believe medium articles, but their article quality is so bad now that i look at it
and use percentages to make their point
I think this is just sarcastic
that article is as crazy as someone saying that you can use python and be efficient for every kind of job
With GIL removed, Python can talk
woman wrote it
@@DiSiBijo ayoooooooo
@@spacecowboyofficial whaT?
Python is the language that make me a better programmer. It forced me to learn a better programming language.
It's like saying that horses will replace conveyor belts. I'm not asking why, I'm asking what were they smoking.
The racism in chat and this stream is real, the anti-indina behavouirs from comments to even the primegan was disgusting
unsubbing
@@ko-Daegu huh?
php will soon replace rust as the best language to write linked lists in
As a backend engineer, I no longer give a fuck about which language to use for performance.
The bottleneck is almost always databases, therefore, composing good queries with appropriate indexes is a lot more relevant then using "fast" languages for improving performance or response time IMO.
In my head there’s a point of scale at which it’s probably cheaper to add hardware to scale, and then a tipping point where a more performant language or code design can make a difference… and it’s partly how many servers you need to maintain and how much that costs.
Idk about you but I’ve run into plenty of situations where the bottleneck was serialisation speed or concurrency and not the database.
what if fast lang + good queries
This. I've never gotten into a situation where Python was too slow. I'm not doing a bunch of number crunching, I'm making a product god damn it 😅
@@roccociccone597Could you give some examples?
the incoherent thought process of this article feels like nightmares i had as a kid
haha
It feels like this article would make more sense if the languages were swapped. Which might be the actual intention for all we know 😂
The article was probably written using Chat Gippity so the data might have been incorrectly interpreted along the way
i prefer to to python. but i guess for machine learning stuff python will stay #1 for a long time
Man, I wish. Imagine being able to do ML with a language that isn’t dynamically typed.
Does Go have a package manager that isn’t as horrible as venv or conda? Because that’d be amazing as well.
If you just swap "Go" and "Python" in that article it actually makes some sense. Its like the author accidently typed "Go" every time they meant "Python" and vice versa.
That's what I was thinking lol.
I was going to say, since when has go been the most used programming language?
The problem with python is that it allows you to write the shittiest code imaginable to get things running, but as you mature, you start to realize that the advantage it gives you, is also its biggest drawback. The notion that Python has been designed for cloud, when cloud did not even exist back then (1991!) is ludicrous, taking into account that Python is a single-threaded environment and can't scale past a single core without extreme hack arounds is laughable.
Python is the new php
Yeah, I pretty much see Python as the perfect approach for 'quick and dirty' solutions that you forget about after you've used them when needed. It's great for tasks like batch reorganizing data or files, generating reports, or displaying some charts based on statistics to copy and paste into a PowerPoint. Once you're done, you forget about that script and the next time you need something slightly different, you'll write another script. It's pretty much the language for 'disposable' code.
However, when it comes to building an API for a product that you have to maintain for years to come, I would never choose Python
Idk, as a primarily Python developer I've never really felt this drawback with all the typing tools available. I use it for quick and dirty work (hell, i usually open Python instead of a calculator), but I also use it for larger, sophisticated projects. The difference is that for any project I actually care about, I use MyPy (static type analysis). Honestly using MyPy feels similar to writing rust to me.
Besides all that, I've never gotten into a situation where Python wasn't fast enough. Maybe other developers are doing a bunch of number crunching for some reason, but most of my code is backend stuff, working with network requests. The difference between a microsecond and a millisecond becomes pretty much irrelevant when the API's you work with have a 100ms latency, haha
@@josecamilojimenez2784 and isn't even *new* !
@@schlopping never used mypy, any reason to choose it over pylance?
I really admire the self-esteem of pythonistas
2:05 TDD = Tweet Driven Development
Lol, I was going to comment the same.
I found learning Go to be easier than learning Python.
Python and JavaScript are horrible to learn because of the eco system and tooling. It’s actually a dumpster fire. Go, on the other hand, does not suffer from such congenital defects.
Golang is much easier and faster than python, still don't understand why people think its harder than python
I see I'm not the only weird here haha
@@tensor5113 It might be if you have no experience with programming and want to get to solving problems as soon as possible.
What about deploying Go in an environment without internet? all golang packages are basically git repos.
Is there a way to bundle them locally like with pip?
"What if 12,000 developers declared that Python will replace Go as the most used programming language in the world? "
In all ranks for most used languages that I can find, Python is a lot more used than Go. This got to be written by chat gippity
Yep, I wouldn't even have clicked on the article.
Go ties with Powershell according to one survey I found. This one lists Javascript as the most used, and pretends that HTML/CSS is a programming language so they can list it second.
The racism in chat and this stream is real, the anti-indina behavouirs from comments to even the primegan was disgusting
unsubbing
@@ko-Daegu
"Sabrina Carpenter 🐍 Serbian Python Developer Girl🐍 21 years old💙"
WUT?
No, gippity actually knows its shit. That's just a clueless meatbag author.
Those two languages are designed to do completely different things, but oh well.
On a side note, I feel like eventually all paths will just converge back to C, and we'll give up on trying to create new things. There's so much drama around all of these things, and it's exhausting
How are they designed for completely different things? We use Go for everything at my job but we could have easily used Python. I am glad we didn't but either would have worked. There is significant overlap in their use cases.
@@Nick-tm2sw obviously people use them for just about anything they can. That's not what I'm talking about
@@dinckelman Then what exactly are you talking about?
C or Zig or Rust or Nim or Carbon and so on.... There's drama everywhere. But you have to think about business before languages. You won't build front-end components in C just like you won't write malware in Python (I know you can write malware with Python, but you shouldn't!).
Every language is a subset or transpiler of C/C++. Only Zig does everything C can do yet provides simpler improvements.
Go is the most used language? Citation needed.
The entire article is full of bullshit. Neither Go is the most used nor does the "Go survey" say that python will replace it.
I am learning Rust but choosing it over Go has been hard. Go is a no brainer for a lot of stuff imo, just free performance. I am not learn it right now paradoxically because it is easy to learn.
lol exactly the same for me
and for me, when I had to choose
same, go is kind of boring, and I would pick it if I needed to actually build something quick, rust on the other hand is just more fun. there are more topics to explore and more rabbitholes to fall into, too
If choosing Rust over Go has been a hard decision then that is probably a good indication you should just be using Go unless you are just doing it for learning. When building a real project there should be very clear and substantial advantage if you are going to choose Rust instead of Go. For 99% of things Rust is not a good choice.
@@Nick-tm2sw99% is too broad and would mean that C++, C, Zig would share the same 1% as Rust. But I see the point you’re trying to make. If the goal is to create something very common (server, cli, daemons) Go is a free win. If the goal is to create something highly specific or needs to achieve 99.9999…% effectiveness then the boon of simplicity quickly converts into curse. Case in point memory arenas aren’t a stable Go feature and in many ways that’s the biggest caveat, that memory arenas HAVE to be a feature there is no way to roll your own w/out CGo and tricks.
So maybe to rephrase for common projects that don’t target anything specific (fronted-ui, non-CI/CD cross-comp, novel architecture, zero-allocation, ML/AI, GameDev, etc) Go is a great choice and should be held as the default for the obvious and effortless gains. But don’t let it be a crutch that halts your development when what your asking for is something the language wasn’t designed to provide.
Most of the people I know who writes python are not actually developers
Most of them are data analysts hahaha
This is true.
@@zyriab5797By trade, no. But yeah, they're all using it to analyze data.
But there are more python developers than probably most languages besides JS, just look at the job market. Python just also shines in other communities.
It's like saying that you only amateur soccer players, still there are more professional soccer players that in any other sport.
yeah they could be MLEng, DS / DatabEng / Data Analyst , Quatative Analyst write a lot of python as well
many DevOps and Net Eng as well
also people in Security industry writer a lot of python
This phenomenon is widely recognized in linguistics: the artificial creation of a language, as seen with languages like Esperanto, tends to fade over time. A similar principle applies to programming languages-they need to be organically developed and naturally expanded by their creators.
Was this response better or worse?
Really have to try to think of a more ridiculous thing to compare to than Python. What I liked about Go is that you can just compile a statically linked executable and run it almost anywhere. Used it on some weird MIPS system once and it just worked. Python wouldn't even have fit in the couple MB of space that thing had.
I had never had even remotely the idea that go was a beginner-friendly, easy language until I started watching primeagen vids. apparently it has that reputation? I always thought of it as C but without manual memory management and with some niceties, and I wouldn't ever consider C a beginner language, nor would I consider manual memory management the only challenging thing about C. Go has less stuff to remember than Java or Python but I would say the simplicity and elegance make it far harder than either to write an application. If the goal is to know the language in and out, go in probably easier, but if the goal is to produce the same end product, go is far harder. Go doesn't get in the way, but it also forces you to be an engineer.
This is like saying that screwdrivers will replace hammers. They are both used for different things.
The fact that Go is *colorless* is already special enough to make the language stay competitive for long.
if you refer to "what color is your code" thing, all normal languages are "colorful". go has threads which "color" functions. instead of "await" you use channels and locks (or whatever they are called in go). notice that this splits functions into two groups: ones that do threads and ones that don't. the ones that do threads are usually on the outside. you can call the threading functions from normal ones, but async functions can too, in principle, be called from non-async ones (i believe, you can do it in python, just not though "await" keyword, but i'm not 100% sure)
"color" is inescapable (because it is a mathematical property), but syntax and language construction can make it better or worse.
@@Daniel_Zhu_a6f the color means that the callers must be synced all the way to the top of the call stack to get the value. golang io operations are not async for example, you will get the output the succeeding lines without changing the function declaration.
you need color to sync the async.
if your input looks a certain way, then you have to be the certain way to *conform* to get what you need.
@@gcxs that is not true. you do not need any special syntax to make async in principle. i don't know what problem async calling convention solves. suspect it was something like JS: a buch of eager managers, 1-2 devs, two weeks of work, we all know the result.
btw, i've poked around in ipython, just as i suggested in the previous comment, it allows you to create futures without "async def", and to "await" from normal functions. the keywords are just syntax sugar, that automatically creates coroutine objects and attaches them to correct threads, but you can do it all manually, no special calling conventions needed.
again, "function color" is, essentially, a type of effect. so everything creates "color" from logging and inplace argument mutation to threads and async. effects are "inherited" by the caller function from it's callees. eg suppose `f1` does logs and `f2` writes to db, then `f3` that calls `f1` and `f2` indirectly has both logging and db writing effects. they just do not have any special calling conventions. async does not need to have one too.
@@gcxs btw, did u know, "print" was a keyword in python2? now it's a function in python3, so you can redefine it in your code to switch off printing from a whole module in a single line. if async&await were normal python functions, you would be able to switch them off in a few lines.
this illustrates, that async syntax is a problem, not the "function color"
Go is good to write highly concurrent, decently performant middlewares, which 99% of developers never need to implement.
So what's the other tech stack one should consider for writing other kind of backend applications?
Pocketbase is under rated.
@@shaftymaze...and Fireship's tutorial on it
@@akshay-kumar-007
For writing backend applications, I believe the most important property the language should have is expressiveness: ability to concisely express complicated business logics.
Developers spend most of their time for not writing codes, but reading codes, so code readability does matter the most.
In terms of expressiveness and readability, Python is a pretty solid choice I think.
@@ANONAAAAAAAAA python is probably the ugliest language ever made
LOL Python is 'designed' to help developers take advantage of cloud development/deployment... This is gold... The creater maintainer of virtulenv left python because it was hot garbage. Java, Go and other binarys are so much easier to deploy.
Used to be a python developer.
I was able to pick up Go in 8 hours, using it ever since to write everything.
Pretty sure python wasn't at all designed for servers and the cloud. Meanwhile yes Go's whole point was to have a language to make cloud and servers easier
I use Python everyday but I think there's something interpreter should not do like somewhere JavaScript shouldn't be. It can do almost everything, yes. But should it do that job? I don't think Python can create fast Micro Services or create Fast Operating System. There're the place where the specific programming language shine. For Cloud/Micro Service nothing beat Go, for System Dev nothing beat Rust, For Front-End nothing beat JavaScript, for Machine Learning nothing beat Python.
I think Python is just convenient for Machine Learning, but it is not reliable as far as performance is concerned. In all, Python is just neat and convenient to work with, good for PoCs, but not much else.
The facial expressions in the thumbnails feel like Prime reacting to Prime reacts to Prime videos.
I literally just finished to re-write a python application in go! When you do not want to ship an entire runtime and need to get things done fast, Go is the way
Don't you also ship a runtime with go ??
@@willerto depends on what one means by runtime. you ship a native executable which contains the go runtime. It works out of the box: no dependencies, no interpreter needed. With python you need to make sure that the target system has the python ecosystem installed etc.
@@19DonCorleone87 have you heard about Docker?
I don't understand the premise. Python is already used more than Go and Go has never been "the most ued programming language in the world". So how would it "replace Go as the most used programming language"?
I wish I could program everything in Golang. Hook us up with some pandas and a few nice python libraries and I'm never programming Python again.
Yes! I also have a coffee cup on my desk that reads “World’s Greatest Dev!”
-
By the way, choosing a different programming language doesn’t make up for the absence of problem-solving skills.
00:07:00 Using Go at home decreasing could be _because_ it is increasing at work ie. people were using it as a hobby language until their work picked it up, now they don't feel the need to use it outside work.
Man, I just installed New Go version 1.22.4 , and started Learning this new Lnaguage, Should I give it up or continue??
Python could replace go, if installing something from pip on your operating system python install, didn't break python updates :>
Don't instal things on your computer with pip
the answer is virtual environments my friend
You usually don't install packages from pip system wide, arch doesn't even let do that by default, you just find it in your package manager
No one who is serious does this. You use virtual environments per project.
This article feels like what you write when you let the intrusive thoughts win
If the amount of people who use go outside of work is decreasing and the number of people who work in Go increases, could mean many people are transitioning into work in Go
very great!
You know the sad thing about articles like this.. a LOT of naïve developers and others in positions of decision making will refer to something like this as why they chose python over Go... likely didn't even read most of the article. It's like in the 90s when our CEO would make us use Microsoft stuff because a friend of his used it at their company and it was good. Despite all of us wanting to stay on linux.. we had no choice. So sad that so many people are easily influenced without details.
I’m pretty sure go is not the most used language in the world
I am a Python developer. I would use go for many things instead of Python.
Especially if I need to do any kind of multithreading. GO is just better for those tasks.
I would "GO" a step further and say that IF I had time I would go back and rewrite most things in go.
At this point, I use Python only because i am very knowledgeable in it and it is easy and fast to write in.
The guy who wrote an article can't read the material he is citing.
Agree with most of this comment. But Python is a more expressive language, better for people who can do OO without shooting their feet, so I would use Go where it’s really strong.
The thing is that most people hate what they use at their day job and thus praise other tools because they take them less seriously and don't associate their job with it
@@nandoflorestan I almost never use OO parts of Python.
The last time I wrote a class that wasn't a dataclass was 4 months ago.
I usually find OO code in Python unnecessarily bloated.
@@heroe1486 I love python. I would keep using it forever. I know it so well and I am so fast with it. But, I am tired of trying to "fix" Python's limitations.
There are 2 things that kills it for me.
1) Is incredibly cryptic and weird implementation of necessary libs. Try to understand how is your class in SQLAlchemy is initiated, good luck.
2) Performance.... You just hit the ceiling and thats it. Yes, there are ways to make it faster or use Cython or Numba in some parts but come on... Not to mention multithreading issue.
When I write in Golang there are other issues that are blowing my mind. Some of those things are just me being stubborn and trying to do everything the python way.
Still, would choose Golang over Python long term. I just think that Golang is more viable long term.
@@nandoflorestan "But Python is a more expressive language, better for people who can do OO without shooting their feet"
Python is one of the worst languages available for OO. Its support for it is rudimentary at best.
Oh no! I just started learning Go (already know Python and Rust).
In my experience, go is MUCH better in cases where you need to implement something a bit more complex that needs some sort of performance and reliability, but would rather prioritize developer productivity over raw speed (aka not choose a systems language). I think that most userspace software is in that category, and go is probably the best language in that case. Python is not going anywhere, but if anything it'll lose a bit of usage to go instead of the opposite imo
Weird cuz I'm porting all the little side utils I built in Python to Go and it's going great. Think Go is going to stick around for a bit.
The thing I really love about medium, is their cute attempt to limit how many trash articles I can read before they try to force me to login or pay and I just laugh... close the incognito tab... and open another one where they have no idea who I am and like somebody with alzheimers, they forget and start counting again :D
Did this article predict mojo lang??
I do prefer go for scripting then python and this is a python niche. It does nothing great nowadays you have better alternatives, well may be AI but I suspect this will not last long.
I agree 100%. I'm just on the hate python camp though; it's just absurdly difficult to deal with versioning because you can shoot yourself in the foot without realizing it (system wide installs).
python hater gang 😎
jokes aside tho, python is way too faulty imo, there's way too many issues that make it not performant enough, I'm reaching the point where I'm more accepting of javascript than python even though javascript is a terribly designed language.
There are "moves" toward making python slightly better like removing the GIL (which will take years to be done) and the slow slow process of moving toward pyproject.toml (even tho pip is still straight garbage and virtual environments are kinda a hack for python's lack of proper versioning). wheels aren't the best for shipping python is not a great experience and the whole language seems to hate you and your computer. lacks very basic features and tries to give them back by either overloading other features thru decorators and dunders or adding a runtime like pydantic to get type validation. there's way too much putting python back.
on the bright side, if all you're doing it writing a small script with not many dependencies that's not supposed to be constantly running python is great. it works and unless you're doing something computationally intensive it's all you need. so I think for the data science folks code golfing data visualizations and AI prototypes it's fine.
You don’t use virtual environments? Everywhere I have worked uses virtual environments. You can never shoot yourself in the foot here, because you can always set up a virtual environment.
@@LionKimbro not always and not everywhere, exceptions are still present
@@advertslaxxor Pyenv, poetry, venv + piptools etc, just use the right tools.
It's not go supposed to replace Python, and Java?
This has to be a troll article. The first paragraph implies that Go is the most used programming language in the world...
I'm a C# developer at heart but my go to language for my next project will be go. It seems the easiest language to use to spawn multithreaded services in the background without digesting too many concepts.
I am doing few open-source code in Go and I haven't even learned the Golang yet.
12000 developers cant use Go due to skill issue so they stick with python 😂
I get what you are saying but if someone can learn Python then they will be able to learn Go. I could see this argument with Rust and Python though.
@@Nick-tm2sw Two of Python programmers I've helped in the past... It's their first language... They learned it because they were told or read ' it's a great first language '... I'm not sure why people say that about Python. I used it for 6 months... wrote some applications and it turned out to be the worst language I've used... I had MORE fun using node for systems programming ( long story involving available private libraries ).
@@Nick-tm2sw it's a joke
@@flamendless How is that a joke?
@@Nick-tm2sw you see the laughing emoji at the end? Also, i wrote it as a joke
“There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” - Mark Twain
This article seems like a sad but common "journalism" job:
1. take some stats that do not provide any significant conclusion
2. choose a title that fits your agenda, then write the article (but don't think too much about it, this is not important)
3. include random references to the stats in your article, regardless of what stats say (or not) or whether they confirm your saying
are those developers in the room now?
Jokes aside, my thoughts is that the survey was done to juniors or bootcampers aspiring to enter the field
"Survey says: developers go with Python"
This article is so wrong. Some people think the language needs a ton of features; so that every programmer can contribute to a ransom-note. Maybe Python performance will stop sucking so bad at some point. Needing to include a runtime, that a user has to deal with is a big problem. (Especially for Java, where Oracle lawyers show up to get a cut when you start to ship your code.). Python packaging is still a mess if you fix its performance problems. Go is great for writing network services and CLI apps.
Show me Mojo making static binaries, with no runtime to install... and I might switch.
Python is a terrible language full of bad design decisions. It has to go. The only reason it's relevant at all is all the math libraries that are pushed by big corpos.
That's NOT what the text states. Pasting it here:
"What if 12,000 developers declared that Python will replace Go as the most used programming language in the world?"
"AS THE MOST USED" is the key.
And that's 100% of programmers who believe this, not only 12 thousand. Because it's ALREADY true. Go was actually NEVER more used than Python.
Never was said the would stop using Go and use Python instead.
These writers need some damn feedback
no, they need to be replaced by llm's as fast as possible
As a python lover and golang going-to-be-lover, I cracked myself so hard
I don't see how this would ever be a reality, python does not have static typing (type hints don't count the last time i checked, they are wonky), go has much nicer concurrency primitives than python's asyncio
Well, even JavaScript is not considered a "good" language my experts because of its "loosey-goosey" nature, but it is used extensively in the industry. I do not think language features dictate popularity. There are other factors at play.
@@sumitmamoriayeah, but it has typescript. Every big good codebase of JS, is written on Typescript.
What do you mean type hints don't count? I use MyPy static type analysis, and really it feels no different that something like TypeScript. Python also has great generics, making complicated types possible. Not sure what you mean with them being wonky.
Actually Python has a very good type system for an OO language (not for a functional language). Python can do concurrency but some people don’t get it. The preference in Python to optimize for single threaded code is being removed, starting just yesterday (the GIL is now being made optional)
@@sumitmamoriatrue but the article is talking about replacing. There are programs that really need reliable typesafety (and performance) and hence you can’t replace them with python. The core of the article isn’t about popularity.
They did the survey in try-catch mode
tl;dr 9:55
"Trash Article"
Go is very much easier to learn than Python
You're evaluating the difficulty based on the size of the language syntax?
@@rubiskelter there is two types of syntax for programming languages, the goat c-like style and the not straightforward and no concise python style
In other news, knives will now replace forks while hammers will be used instead of screw drivers.
Most of the A.I libraries in "Python" are not actually written in Python. They are just language bindings to C/C++ libraries.
How much pay for reed this article 😅?
such a shame. Go is really good. faster than php easier than rust. what it needs is a killer app like laravel to take it to the next level
Hahahaha good one!
Hi @Theprime I have been facing an serious issue with vim.....I learnt vim by watching your videos today it is my go to editor.... However why I am trying to copy code from vim to clipboard it is not happening..... Could you please tell me how to do it???
I could probably list 10 reasons why I'd use python over go, and ofc none of them exist in this article.
I could just as easily list 10 reasons why I'd use go over python.
They both turing complete, I don't see what the fuss is about
"python beyond web development" python started outside of web development. Using it for web dev is a bad idea 90% of the time
Why so? Web dev inherently deals with network latency, which makes "C vs Python" type speed comparisons have practically no meaning. Since many people consider Python's speed its main bottleneck and seeing that its of no importance in web dev, I'd say it's perfectly fine to use Python.
@@schlopping Except your response latency is much higher, why do you think the latency exists in the first place. Your argument is void when you consider server client applications, or even decently complex and secure Rest API's
@@schlopping i dont get what you mean, the speed of the backend will add in top of the latency, so it still matters
@@SpikeTaunt What i mean is that when the latency is 100ms, the 0.1ms runtime of the code doesn't matter.
@@tensor5113 Why do I think there's a latency? Because of internet speeds and database queries ofcourse.
The problem with these articles is that they become part of the internet memory; next time someone searches to understand the pros and cons of using Python and Go, they will get influenced by shitty articles. Especially when language models ingest this information and spew this out as a valid opinion.
Back in the day I’ve been a ruby webdev for five year there was a loud article or presentation few times a year saying ruby will die soon. Many years passed by and ruby still has its market share growing a bit occasionally
The ending 😂 glorious
After PHP, I don't think anything will be replaced ever.
Thank you for paying on our behalf🤣. I want to start learning Go and when I saw this I was like "maybe no" but now that you paid the price it is a "maybe yes".
If python is designed for servers I’m Santa clause.
True
That’s FUD. Python is a favorite for web applications, for great reasons.
@@nandoflorestanYou need to read that again. He is not saying it shouldn't be used on web servers. He saying it wasn't DESIGNED FOR web servers.
The day Python has strong and static typing, is compiled, has good performance, and can easily have parallelism and concurrency is the day I'll pretend to consider it.
(Some of these things are somewhat implemented in Python and some others are being discussed. Doesn't matter).
Says everyone who doesnt understands python lol
@@angelocarantino4803 I program in it at work every day. Wrote a complex system in it. I just don't consider it good/enjoyable enough for big team projects, even though some people can really make it shine and love working in it. Not for me though, there are better alternatives.
What's an OS ? Do you mean Jupyter ?
Python's never going to replace anything that compiles or that has static type checking.
Python don't enforce the bare minimum of coding hygiene nor computer knowledge, unfortunately, this has lead the Python community on a downward path were the average Python dev is less and less skilled (idiocracy kinda thing). And that's a shame because the language has many useful trick (but also a lot of pitfalls).
You gotta love Python evangelists and Php apologists
I might be off base here, but my experience with typing in Python has been great. The type system in recent years is surprisingly robust, with generics, variable types, etc. I could do something like:
def f(x: list[T]) -> T: ...
@@schlopping Agree with you, I find this new typing system very useful. But at the same time, if I want strong typing, why not just use a statically typed language ?
@@MrIlsundur Because you can somehow temper that with type hints + mypy (and other problems due to the rich ecosystem) and other languages may not have what you want, being a wide ecosystem and community, a fully featured web framework, or even being suited and popular for specific domains like data science or ML. Choices are often not that simple.
1 day left for paying WinRAR license... waiting for a video proof (popcorn is already prepared!!!!) 🤩🤫🎬👀
I am confused should i go or Python
Rip Bram Moolenaar, creator and maintainer of VIM
will python replace go faster than C is replacing python itself ?
Are programming languages really that hard for (already a developer) to pickup? Almost everything is C style syntax anyway. Them most confusing thing that I have to learn is imports/namespaces after that it’s all ecosystem, tooling, and idioms there on.
Lastly if you think python is suitable for the cloud I dare say you’re understanding of computing and programming is shallow at best
I can't imagine a dynamic tyted language being preferred over a static one. Like why?
3:00 Betrayal...
Editor is having fun XD
First sentence: Go is the most used programming language in the world?
The entire article is full of bullshit. Neither Go is the most used nor does the "Go survey" say that python will replace it.
Didnt Mojo just kill python ?
Needs to exist first
what's Go?
Both languages have their advantages.
Go: typing, parallelism, perf
Python: Pace of development, dynamism, simplicity
Mojo is a set of all the advantages of both
“Member-only story” LUL
feels bad, imagine paying medium to face a sh*t load of click bait articles anyway
Prime, I wonder if the reason the number of interested devs using it outside of work was decreasing because those devs then began using it in work the next year. Seemed to be a clear correlation where the number of interested was dropping but the number of people using it in work was growing.
yeah makes sense, as people who love to write GO would also seek out jobs at that uses GO primarily.
>On one hand, there are developers who think that Python is more suited to advanced software development and that Go should be used for simpler applications
Simple CLI shit is literally what Python is best at.
Talking about dying, the inventor of vim died a few days ago :(
15000 frontend engineers wanting to write backend code to do todo web apps
12 000 developers declared that Python will replace Go??? From where those devs are? From India?
Prime you got scammed you took the L paying for medium
I still regret it