Taxman and Stealth: The Story behind Sonic Mania's Fans Turned Developers
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Learn the story behind Sega's decision to recruit from the fan community for Sonic Mania.
Taxman's sweet Sonic ports can be played here--
Steam: store.steampowe...
Mobile: www.amazon.com...
www.amazon.com...
www.amazon.com...
WARNING! The Steam versions of Sonic 1 and 2 (from 2010) aren't the remakes mentioned in the video, the good ones are still on mobiles only.
Last week on the podcast I was a little horse: www.thatonevide...
The story of Stealth & Taxman is very important imho, not only because these two guys are some of the most dedicated sonic & general sega fans i've seen on the net, but also because this seriously paves the way for more developers to be looking into recruiting some of their diehard fans into the industry.
I mean hiring modders isn't really unusual for the PC space. But that was usually to integrate them into an old team, not letting them spearhead projects by themselves.
Not to mention that it certainly seems unusual for any of the old console devs like SEGA.
+dravorek Also when's the last time a Japanese company let fans lead their big mascot game?
Passionate fans that know what they're doing can really bring a franchise to its true potential. The Sonic franchise sure is lucky to (still) have a dedicated fanbase despite numerous blunders.
It's pretty common with PC (Most of Valve's franchises started as mods), but it's still pretty great to see they're dedication really pay off.
Sega has really been embracing it's community lately, as this and opening the Steam Workshop floodgates for Genesis/Mega Drive ROM hacking.
Other companies could learn to do what SEGA does instead of just at worst shutting down fan-made stuff and instead let the best make games...
...but then again, SEGA does what...others...don't.
BTW, you missed that PagodaWest was founded by the team behind Sonic 2 HD, after they couldn't get that project fully up and running.
Everyone working on Sonic Mania is a fan from the fangames and hacks community.
Woah, I didn't know that! That's really awesome!
After seeing your comment I immediately went to Sonic 2 HD's facebook page.
Actually true, huh! www.sonicretro.org/2013/03/sonic-2-hd-team-behind-ios-game-major-magnet/
LOst is still gone, right? He was pretty much the sole reason Sonic HD died.
Kinda funny how the video completely skips over 2/3 of the Sonic Mania team. In addition to PagodaWest Games, the composer of Sonic Mania, Tee Lopes, did the soundtrack for Sonic 2 HD, as well as Major Magnet, so the soundtrack is in good hands.
You could have mentioned how the composer of Sonic Mania, as well as most (if not all?) of the members of PagodaWest were heavily involved in the Sonic 2 HD Remake fan project that got cancelled a few years back.
It's back up. Also where is that damn sonic 3 bonus video!
Where did you go Cybershell!?!?
You need to make the Sonic 3 & Knuckles Bonus Video
Cybershell colors for the ds was good too
You can make a Sonic 2 HD in Sega MD Collection.
Huh man if you kept making vids I might have been a lot more exited to see you here. Man I really wish you didn't just skip out on UA-cam
When you say Taxman and Stealthman, you make em sound like superheroes.
Which in a sense they are to the franchise...
I was sure that was a Dayman and Nightman reference
Or Megaman bosses.
Definitely rejected Megaman bosses haha!
Josh Wunderlich if only megaman and capcom had their equivalent of taxman and stealth
FinalutionGaming *plays Mega Man robot master music*
Taxman is amazing because of his Sonic CD port alone. It definitely is the best way to play the best old 2D game. The dual audio is just amazing
*remake
Holy shit, where'd you find your profile Pic?
that game was really underwhelming but now it is decent.
definitely needed a video like this! Thank you!
Yeah tbh
The Sonic Cycle is dead since Generations. Boom didn't even fit in the cycle because virtually nobody was excited for it in the first place.
Exactly. People just apply this meme to every new game without actually realizing what it entails.
Yeah, the only game since Unleashed that had something that looked like the Cycle was Lost World. Even then it was still not trainwreck-bad, just somewhat mixed.
Eichro
Lost World took a few steps backwards from Generations, but yeah. It wasn't terrible. The new game coming out looks ambitious yet familiar with Classic Sonic's inclusion. I take it the guy who made this video is just not a fan of 3D Sonic.
Unless you want to count people having low expectations for Boom managing to be surprised that how terrible it is actually managed to go lower. XD
Generations also sucked.
As a fan of what Sonic actually was, nothing after the Genesis games with the exception of Advance for GBA deserves to even be called a Sonic game.
Don't even get me _started_ with Sonic 4... I'm calling Mania the Sonic 4 we should have gotten back in 1998.
Also, this is coming from someone who grew up with modern Sonic for most if not all of my lifetime, only learning about the originals after I entered my late teens.
There is one thing that wasn't mentioned. Many Sonic fans know the gameboy port of Sonic 1 (called Sonic Genesis) for being horribly glitchy, with bad music and physics. Stealth recreated Sonic 1 from scratch to run on gameboy hardware to prove that Sonic Genesis was hastily put together.
Idk if this pushed his career in any way, by it's worth mentioning. I would look into it if you could. Anywho, it's so weird seeing long time Sonic fans becoming much more involved in the franchise, which makes me so happy. Great video for those who don't know the history of taxman and stealth
So will this team replace DIMPS?
Yes?
Please say yes!
Well, The new 3D Sonic isn't coming to handhelds, so it doesn't seem DIMPS is involved, cause handheld ports are usually their area.
+SSJ22Terris Ports, yeah. As well as the Advance line and Sonic 4
+Daijon Banks (DJ-XIII) and the Rush series.
aw I thought dimps was good.
DIMPS was good until 4 EP 1. Very sad. I loved Advance and Rush series.
Huh... so actual talent can crawl out of the nightmarish, dank, cesspool that is the sonic fanbase, good for them and i wish 'em the best with sonic mania
That's because they're tech savvy people that do work like people and act like people.
Also they haven't touched a child, so they're in the upper echelon of the fandom by default
Shukterhouse Jive
that shouldn't have made me laugh :P oh my immortal soul, where fore art thou?
Sonic tends to draw a lot of creative types into it's fanbase. So there's a lot of people who want to make Sonic inspired stuff.
Sonic Retro and Sonic Stuff Research Group is full of cool Sonic Fans, Deviantart is the land of the shit side of the fanbase.
The mobile ports of Sonic 1,2 and CD are pretty much the definitive versions of those games (still waiting for Sonic 3&K here). It just goes to show that there is still some love for the blue blur, despite the fact that he is a meme at this point.
Also, there are other Sonic fangames that you'd be fooled to think of them as official games. Namely, Sonic Before the Sequel and Sonic After the Sequel, developed by Lake Feperd. I recommend those interested in classic Sonic to try them out. You won't be dissappointed. ;)
if i may shill, i have also played a small demo called Overture, and that one is superb in my mind. Might take a look at that one as well to see what you think.
I've heard and seen some footage for that game, but have yet to try it myself. Thanks for the reminder. :)
+Marius Urucu Sonic Time Twisted is also looking really good.
Are those ports the Steam releases of those games or do we gotta buy on mobile?
Benschachar Only Sonic CD. Sonic 1 and 2 Taxman remakes are mobile only, sadly.
Strangely enough no one remembers Sonic Advance series, which was made by Dimps.
I liked the games.
I do. They were good, the second and third ones kinda teetered a bit due to cheap level design in parts.
Sonic Advance 2 was something more like G2G FEST M8.
SA3...Yeah I kind of agree with you, but with level memorization, I think you can blaze some of those levels.
As someone who played SA3 a lot as a young kid, I agree. I dunno how I dealt with back then lol. Too bad I don't have SA3 anymore, just SA2.
damn those were amazing, i didn't played them in an actual gameboy, but in a emulator in my xperia play instead and played very well
the only issue i found is that the screen size is very small so i can't see shit of the stage or where im going
I think that's a major issue in all of the 2D sonic games. Times you are so fast that you don't have time to react to enemies placed on screen. The ideal would be a big screen size, or smaller sprites to remedy that(on the classic games) Today the best solution is just to increase the FOV of the player.
When are you going to do a history on the Sonic twitter page?
T H I S
The Sonic Twitter account is fucking legendary at this point.
Thanks mate i didnt knew of that until now. I am laughing so hard.
I'm not sure if I can call that twitter account "legendary," but it's certainly better than nothing!
There's not too much to know about it. It was originally just used to post promotional Sonic material and then they brought longtime Sega member and Sonic fan Aaron Webber to be the franchises PR manager (he left Sega for a year before he began being the admin of the page in June of 2015). On June he posted memes in response to the announcement of Sonic Boom Fire and Ice and it became much more comedic and fan-oriented (also memes) since then. Aaron is such a cool dude!
av4d Watching big companies try to act "human" and "on our level" is usually incredibly cringe-worthy, like it was at this year's E3. But the way Aaron does it...is just flawless. Especially since all his MN9 bashing and bragging about Sonic's new game turned out to be justified, at least in my opinion.
You know what my first thoughts were when I saw this during the 25th anniversary livestream?
*BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ*
Mine were "I WANT STUFFED NACHOS IMMEDIATELY"
HELLO KITTY MEETS SONIKU.
"That's the sound of 25 years of Sonic"
"On that day, 10 years ago the world of gaming would never be the same."
Mine was, "this looks too good to be a sonic game."
I'm not a fan of the Sonic franchise. But I am hopeful that this turns out well.
Same hear
I’m not either but it turned out great
It did
What was so bad about Colors, Generations and Lost World? I thought Sonic was "saved" with those games. Are they already considered underrated this quickly?
Yes. Because people just want to force an agenda.
MAJORITY OF OPINIONS UPON RELEASE: Colors= "good, but needs improvement." Generations= "A god send that needs to be played. Sonic Team is back!" Lost World: "Well....it was....something. It was....ok, I guess. The hell happened to Sonic Team?"
It was, but then Boom torpedoed the franchise's reputation again.
+Mr. Missingno rise of lyric isn't even by sonic team. Big Red Button is and they were doomed from the beginning of development.
Lost World was bad, the other two were great
Clear and informative video. Good job!
Hahaha Sega's Moonwalker :)
Oh dude.. You're still active!? Nice. Used one of your tracks in my old gamer channel.
I love your remixes
sorry to bother you for asking: do you have any of your work on SoundCloud or sites that doesn't take your music for samples? your work is incredible work of art there. thank you
Bad good
Worth to note that artists from the Sonic 2 HD fan game are part of pagoda west now.
While that's great and all (and it shows when Sonic looks up), I prefer the sprite art look. It looks more timeless than even the HD hand-drawn and smoothly-animated style that Sonic 2 HD was trying, and they really are giving Mania the extra attention to detail, animation quality and love it deserves.
Absolutely, the animation smoothness definitely bled through! I was just mentioning this because Pagoda definitely knows how to handle Sonic as well!
Me, when this video was released: "But Sonic Forces doesn't look that bad! I'm not really even that big a Sonic fan, it looks pretty good. I don't know, I think this will be the one to break the cycle."
Me, the day the game was released: "Son of a bitch..."
Considering that the people behind Colours and Generations are working on Project Sonic 2017, I have high hopes. Also, didn't Colours break the 'Sonic Cycle' back in 2010 already?
colors and generations both broke the sonic cycle but people still reference it anyways because the internet cares more about memes than good games
The only games that actually follow the Sonic Cycle are Sonic Heroes and Sonic 2006. That's it. Why it even became a thing is beyond me.
to me sonic unleashed broke the cycle it had the right tone of lighthearted and serious moments chipp wasgreat his realtionship was even better than tails,also tails and amy who are known for being around sonic were more of there own characters in uleashed than what 06 turn both of them into 06 messed up her character so bad. Amy is headstrong not stupid 06 made her terrible to play as and listen to , tails was helping doctor pickles and amy was seeing the world i love the fact that they have there own agendas and not just with sonic .Besides the werehog was not that bad the only thing that sucked was collecting medals and runnig so fast you could die. As for the others beside that the riders games were fun oi was think the babylon rogues were a good anti sonic with some respect towards each, story book series black like it i can play as knuckles again and secret rings meh alright, colors solid story but bland level design good gameplay, sonic genrations a cool throwback, lost world is like heroes its different so some love or hate it i like it. Thats everything after 06 my fav game os adeventure 1
amen!!! good games
I honestly found Sonic Colors to be sort of boring after a while it's just the same thing over and over again
Sonic fanbase is like an abused wife. "Even though he beats me all the time, I know he still loves me."
They still remember the chocolate and the flowers given at the start of the relationship.
Funny how that applies for Nintendo fans too.
Surprisingly accurate
Angry Bee You okay, buddy?
+Victor Kruger Except Nintendo doesn't consist of bumbling moblins that forgot how to make a game. Nintendo at least puts out serious quality at least 80% of the time, they just fumble often.
I always found the whole Sonic Cycle thing kind of stupid personally. I don't know if I'm in the minority though.
YES! God I've always hated anything that tries to predict how a game will come out that doesn't want to consider the fact that it's possible to for excpetations to be completly shattered for better or worse. And the sonic cycle theory is so full of cynicism it makes it at best needlesly depressing and at worst complete bullshit. I mean it's just the realisation that games usually aren't better than what we imagine them to be and that usually make a bad game feel worse but I'm supposed to take that somehow a big revelation?
Not me. Pessimism is good. Cynicism is better, but pessimism is a good substitute.
If it keeps people from preordering...
It is. But it sticks around since it's a pretty decent predictor of how the more *ahem* obnoxious fans react to Sonic news.
William Brown Cough sweets are cheap. There's no need to clear your throat.
it is bullshit. for every game after black Knight it has never worked on me. generations came out. I knew generations was going to the a good game by looking at it. played the demo at the very least an had a blast. lost world was in a similar boat as generations. I knew where they were going with it. its basically Sonic Adventure X Sonic Generations. so I wasn't disappointed. actually had fun for most of the game. Hell, I knew that Rise of Lyric wasn't gonna be a game for me with how much has changed. But it came out worse.
its a little thing called paying attention to what is giving to you.
To be honest, I've never been this hyped about an official Sonic game. I'm excited af.
I haven't been since Sonic 4 episode 1.... and we all know how that turned out. Hopefully Sonic Mania doesn't turn out to disappoint us all like that one did :/
Unlike Sonic 4, though, Mania is being developed by Taxman and Stealth. I have played Retro Sonic, Sonic CD mobile, and Sonic Megamix, and they were great games, so let's hope this one will end up the same.
As for Sonic 4: Ep. I, I don't think it was a horrible game (or a great one). It was a decent platformer, albeit inferior to the classics.
Yay! Someone who actually LIKES Sonic 4!
There is one problem with the mobile ports: They're on mobile.
Is that possible without running an emulator? I don't do emulation.
PC > MAC
ANDROID > IOS
Let me fix that PC > MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ANDROID > IOS
They can't really be compared. I would love to see you get your PC on the road and easily pick it up on a bus ride.
Olodus
you can, its called a laptop, a mobile PC
Sonic Lost World was very close to being a genuinely good game. It had a lot of boring levels, some of the controls weren't super great in the 3D sections, and the difficulty curve was basically nonexistent, but those are really all things that could've easily been addressed in a sequel. The only problem is that Sonic Team doesn't ever learn from their previous games, so instead of building on the decent foundation laid by Lost World they went on and started making something completely different. Or at least, something that looks like it will be completely different.
Also, the Wisp powers from Sonic Colors were completely extraneous in Lost World. They were in every single level, but they didn't add anything to the gameplay.
Sonic Team is what's used to address a lot of different people. I believe the group that worked on Lost World was not the same team as who worked on Colors and Generations. That'd probably be why they feel so different.
yeah... I can't argue against any of your points but I personally really enjoyed my time with Lost World.
The Sonic Team of today, and even Dimps to an extent, aren't clever or passionate enough to design something like Sonic Mania. Fans know what fans want and I'm glad someone at SEGA finally had the foresight to bring some into the fold. Our pleas have only fallen on deaf ears for the last 23 years after all.
From a marketing standpoint, Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces are a great one-two punch to satisfy the split fanbase.
Mania is for the old timers like me who still keep their Genesis hooked up... Forces is for younger fans who are more into the Modern Sonic titles.
Taxman is also working on Freedom Planet 2 (or at least providing engine support). The rest of this decade is gonna be a good time for Sanics of all colours
I'm a journalism student, and your show is literally the only games journalism I consume. Thank you for taking this stuff seriously, putting in the time do actual research and reporting, and inserting personal opinion and criticism that is informative and thoughtful.
I always said that if they were gonna do more 2D Sonics they should get the freedom planet guys. I feel like they took that advice a step further.
There's a problem with that: with Freedom Planet 2, Galaxy Trail is trying to create their own identity as a developer. They want people to know Freedom Planet as a unique standalone franchise, not just 'that one sonic-inspired game.'
+Smitteys86 Neat thing to note: Christian Whitehead actually helped port the Freedom Planet Engine to Unity3D for that team so they could hit the ground running way faster in creating their sequel.
+Samuel Sarette That's awesome! Makes me wish they could have a Lilac bonus character in Sonic Mania.
SEGA DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T
Treat their cash cows like crap?
+YBPaladin That gave me a good chuckle.
YBPaladin No, let fans work with them
make a lotof shitty games in a row
taxman and stealth does what even sega doesnt anymore*
This shows up on my homepage instead of subscription list.
Just bookmark the subscription list instead.
The homepage for youtube sucks so there's no need to use it.
Do you mean that it doesn't show up in your subscription list at all, like a CGP Gray video?
Unfortunately, they got rid of the All Activities page, so now the _only_ thing worth looking at is the Subscriptions page...
My advice is get an RSS reader. UA-cam is lying to you. Especially if you're subscribed to anyone that only puts out a video like, once every few months.
Thanks for the regular video output, sbh. Your channel is still a gem.
I think you're being unfair with the 3D game considering there's no in-game footage right now. The cinematic does look too dark and edgy but the fact that it's apparently going back to a Colours/Generations style gives me hope. I wouldn't say I'm excited but I'm definitely curious to see if they can save 3D Sonic after the train wreck that was the Boom spin-off.
And of course Mania is still going to be the Sonic main attraction next year.
The question is are they actually going back? I mean seeing the phrase "by the same team as Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations" immediately followed by "Sonic Team" kinda makes me doubt that.
Well, there's definitely evidence in the trailer, given how Modern Sonic moves in the CGI teaser. But then again, it's a CGI teaser, so we won't *really* know until more of the game is revealed.
Just saying initial hopes being raised by first reveal of the game and thinking this may be Sonic's return to form is part of the cycle.
*****
I am to an extent as well. I don't think Sonic should be as dark as he was in Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic Adventure 2 (Execution by firing squad?!? Really?!?), but I do hope the story is a bit more serious. The light and goofy stuff definitely fits Sonic more, but they were so light they you kinda forgot what's at stake in the plot.
+William Brown Light and goofy fits sonic more as a character than as a story. He's like young Dante from DMC 3. free spirited, bundle of joy even when condemned by satan, would give even less of a fuck as long as they have their thrills.
Also Tee Lopes, the dude making the music is one of the best sonic fan re-mixers I've ever herd, give his Spring Yard zone re-imagined a listen.
I dunno, Sonic Mania seems like a cool sidegame but Sonic 2017 is the main event in my opinion.
It looks like Sonic '06 2.
Wall Staples No it doesn't, sure the big robots and apocalyps scenery looks kinda stupid for a sonic game but the gameplay is most likely gonna be like generations and colors.
heh....we ALL know Mania is likely to be loved more.
+Thatssomegoodpie Animations it really does. Pre rendered debut trailer and all.
"and all"
There's quite literally nothing we've seen *beyond* the cinematic teaser. A few statements from the event imply that Sonic Team's staying in their comfort zone with their most recent success, though.
7:59 They definitely did that to rub it in Dimps' face
August 2017 here. Can confirm that Sonic Mania came out and was fantastic.
I really don't get how everyone is ALREADY hating on the next Sonic team game. Despite the development time of 4 years, which is more than even Adventure 2 (3 years) had. Despite the teaser obviously hinting at gameplay very similar to Generations and Colours.
Does everyone hate on Bethesda because their games are broken at launch and have horrible voice acting and subpar graphics? No. Wait until they show gameplay, then you can critizise it.
i mean, considering that there was much less fanfare for Fallout 4 than Skyrim just due to those elements along with others the next projects will likely inherit (fucking dialogue wheel) then its safe to say the Bethesda Experience is waning on people.
that being said, i don't get the cynicism for the other sonic game, it has all the telling points (hinting at Generations/Colors gameplay thats the stuff people said they liked, significantly long development period, etc) that it may turn out for the better.
im guessing the trailer having more "dark" themes are a sign of caution for people who just like the recent sonic trend of "third wall breaking self aware cartoon character" as well as JUST being a cgi trailer isn't great either. but honestly just estimating what the gameplay would be like, it seems to be heading the right direction :/
because memes have told people on the internet that all modern Sonic games are bad and give disappointments to its fanbase when the only really shit games have been Boom and Sonic 06, and even Sonic 06 only failed as bad as it did because Sega got overly ambitious without optimization. I mean if you ever had the 360 demo of Kingdom Valley it's really fun and like all Sonic Team games the levels are gorgeous and all had memorable set pieces... but no Sonic Team made a bad game a decade ago so all 3d Sonic games are trash. sorry I go on rants defending Sonic games because most of the time the people talking the most shit about them haven't played whichever one they claim to hate
well theres sonic and the black knight, unleashed, and the secret rings, shadow the hedgehog heroes and honestly adventure 1 and 2 arent really very good games. Even excluding the adventures and heroes because their is reasonable debate about their quality thats still 3:6 ratio of good to bad games 3d sonic games have not done well over all.
+TheNejD no one has ever been able to explain to me why they think the storybook games are bad, the storybook games were Secret Rings and Black Knight just in case the sonic gaming community are the only ones that call them that. The closest thing I have seen to actual criticism and not just, "lol sawnik sucks amirite? you're too slow lol" along with further meme vomiting, are the floaty feeling controls and the fact it's loosely on rails which comes with the bizarre camera FOV. Really there was nothing truly awful about it. As for Unleashed idk where you are getting this information but the only disappointment in Unleashed was not that the WereHog levels weren't fun. it was that changing from day to not night killed the pacing and the general consensus that, however fun they were, if they wanted something like that they should have had knuckles doing it or tails in a mech suit. heroes was and still is fun. such things are obviously subjective but I had my ps2 hooked up cause I was replaying the Ratchet and Clank games, and it still holds up, except for that weird Japanese trigger operated camera system of course, and like I said I was playing the ps2 version the buggiest downgrade of the release. Shadows only sin was the gunplay "edgy" bullshit that happens when you have to make a character interesting and unique because a bunch of 12 year old thinks that's the height of cool but the stages were just as interesting and visually arresting as ever. finally while I'll be the first to admit Adventure 1 & 2 didn't age as well as I'd like to tell myself they are still easily 7s by today's standards and they stand up A HELL OF ALOT BETTER than Mario 64 or GoldenEye... hell maybe it's me and my SEGA fanboy friends seeing Nintendo praised for shit Sonic got heat for it kinda pisses me off at the sheer hypocrisy of it
+TheNejD no one has ever been able to explain to me why they think the storybook games are bad, the storybook games were Secret Rings and Black Knight just in case the sonic gaming community are the only ones that call them that. The closest thing I have seen to actual criticism and not just, "lol sawnik sucks amirite? you're too slow lol" along with further meme vomiting, are the floaty feeling controls and the fact it's loosely on rails which comes with the bizarre camera FOV. Really there was nothing truly awful about it. As for Unleashed idk where you are getting this information but the only disappointment in Unleashed was not that the WereHog levels weren't fun. it was that changing from day to not night killed the pacing and the general consensus that, however fun they were, if they wanted something like that they should have had knuckles doing it or tails in a mech suit. heroes was and still is fun. such things are obviously subjective but I had my ps2 hooked up cause I was replaying the Ratchet and Clank games, and it still holds up, except for that weird Japanese trigger operated camera system of course, and like I said I was playing the ps2 version the buggiest downgrade of the release. Shadows only sin was the gunplay "edgy" bullshit that happens when you have to make a character interesting and unique because a bunch of 12 year old thinks that's the height of cool but the stages were just as interesting and visually arresting as ever. finally while I'll be the first to admit Adventure 1 & 2 didn't age as well as I'd like to tell myself they are still easily 7s by today's standards and they stand up A HELL OF ALOT BETTER than Mario 64 or GoldenEye... hell maybe it's me and my SEGA fanboy friends seeing Nintendo praised for shit Sonic got heat for it kinda pisses me off at the sheer hypocrisy of it
I come from the future and can confirm, it's real guys, and it's amazing 😵
This review gives me a lot of hope, not only in the aspect of Sega heading in new directions, but also in that it's now proven to still be possible for home developers to actually earn the position they dream of with relative ease.
I pray that Mania will be good.
it's taxman dude, no need to pray
Mania is the safe option. The other "serious" one is probably going to raise eyebrows. It almost sounds like a premise for the Sat AM Sonic getting a new game for that continuity.
The "serious" one sounds and looks like absolute garbage compared to Sonic Mania.
Sonic Mania will be the ONLY 25th anniversary game to me.
+gamephreak5 Oh yeah, it's totally time to judge it, like, those 12 seconds really were the unfinished game in brief.
Redfoxe
It will be.
This was very well done. As a long time Sonic fan, I had been somewhat familiar with Taxman and Stealth but this was very informative and told me a lot more about them and their accolades. I'm very optimistic about Sonic Mania
Well, George, the main Project 2017 is also quite promising, since SEGA seems to be aware of what two best modern sonic games were and in which direction should the new one go
Always love the sober, measured commentary & well-researched perspective you give, George.
Its like the polar opposite of Konami, Silent Hill and Tom Hullet.
The menu pose alone sold me. Especially with the music they used, almost had me in tears. I can't wait for Sonic Mania!
Interesting as always!
You posted this before you could've watched the video lmao
This is the type of content I love on UA-cam. Thanks! Plus, I'm super hyped for Sonic Mania.
It's a fact that there are fans that can create content as amazing as the official ones. It's fortunate that SEGA does what Nintendon't (again)! While Nintendo shuts down them nonsensely, SEGA encourages them (Green Hill Paradise Fan Act - August 2016) or even hires them (Sonic Mania). I'm totally hyped with it.
thank you for making this video , it makes it easier to explain to friends why I'm excited for sonic mania. don't forget the music is also made by another fan too :D The whole project just feels like it's in the right hands.
Even if both games fail, we'll still have the legendary 25th Anniversary show; a show that rivals Konamai's 2010 E3 conference, the XBone announcement, and the PS3's E3 announcement. Truly an event worthy of a place in the annals of Internet history!
Not really.
They had audio issues... wow. I think people just WANT another Konami press conference.
Gmaniac01 Like?
Gmaniac01 So clearly no where near as bad as Konami or ps3 then
no, shut up though but "muh memes, muh daddy jim sterling" tho
the show was silly and bad at times but nothing will top Konami E3 2010. no amount of "cringe" from that will be able to beat having to watch a dude try super hard to read out a statement and try to sell Otomedius Excellent, just for it to be followed up by a poorly censored trailer desperately hiding anime nipples.
that shit will never be topped no matter what.
"the Sonic cycle is the rule to which expectations of these games are held"
*stops taking video seriously*
Great background on all of the developers and their relation to Sonic Mania...except for one. Pagoda West Games isn't just a out of place mobile developer, their team was formed out of dedicated fans working on the Sonic 2 HD remake that's now being headed by a different team after internal problems with their programmer caused the thing to go belly up. So Pagoda West are just as important as Taxman and Headcannon are in the development of Sonic Mania. They're pretty much the lone reason we're getting new stages that look and feel like proper stages down to the color palettes, patterns and music. If you look at Major Magnet, it's clear that the team at least from an aesthetic stand point DID make a new Sonic game. Tee lopes' work on Sonic 2 HD and all his music in Major Magnet is suitably Sonic CD-esque. Tom Fry (The animator of S2HD) redid all the animations for Sonic 2 in HD with twice as many frames, which was also brought over to Sonic Mania as well as making that snazzy Ren & Stimpy inspired title screen animation for Mania. It's a little frustrating to see all this coverage about the lineage behind this game but Pagoda West just entirely glossed over. It's not just you, media coverage has just painted Pagoda as a barely known developer that rocked up to the party as a friend of a friend.
...other than that, great video!
Kamon62 Thanks for elaborating on Pagoda, I'm glad I read this!
I've learned from my childhood that sonic lived and died during his genesis days (with some good moments during dreamcast) - however, I always find it unique and a valuable learning experience when others can take a property back to it's core audience - the actual development of this title is much more interesting of a case study regarding fan and emulator development than just a game.
I was quite fond on Chris's record.
(Proud owner of the SCD remake on Steam,
waiting for the Sonic 1 & 2 ports to be there as well)
Not so much on Stealth (Even though i was aware of Megamix's "cancellation")
Thanks George, i also was unaware of the creation of "The Sonic Cycle".
To cut it short, almost nothing can go wrong with Mania
"Proud" to own a $5 game on Steam?
A fine one at that, i mean.
People should be ashamed they even paid for a FNaF game, Street Fighter V or the latest Call of Duty. So, nice attempt there. But your failure is on par with SEGA's overall management of their properties
+Alfernus the Geek why should people feel ashamed for buying a competitive game?
Samir Malik Why buy a "new" game, when it's the same as the previous.
But a metagame update sold as a full price release. I'm better off buying Overwatch, even on console
***** Rushed for the competitive scene...
Pathetic, and even funnier because it's a contradiction.
They benefit and embrace pre-order culture,
yet.
By doing that, they're punishing the majority of early buyers.
Lacking features, barebones and DED servers were the top of the cherry in a cake of shit. But, they have slowly redeemed themselves.
And quite sucessfully, as of now. It only needs a bit of polishing around the edges
I cant describe the quality of this video. The reporting was well written. Time was placed into this and I like it. GG Bunnyhop
"I don't see people hating on sonic mania right now, not now at least" 1 year later no ones hating :l
I'm highly impressed by your reporting and narrative skills. Thank you for giving me a much needed history lesson!
I wish I could give more than just a like to this vid!
Dare I say it, I think future Sonic games should be developed by those three developers behind Sonic Mania, and the fans.
Look at fangames like Sonic World - it clearly shows that the fans know how to get shit done.
You should have mentioned Taxmans idea to make Desert Dazzle a zone in CD Port, but then got turned into Mirage Saloon in Mania.
People still believe in the Sonic Cycle meme? Wow...
Ikr
RednekGamurz it came true tho... forces sucks.
Okay, I have to pause before the video even starts and say that this is gonna be good.
I happen to be aquainted with a good personal friend of Taxman's, and I kinda love the Sonic Retro scene, so this will be fun to see such an introspective outside source looking in this deep.
Wait, so the best Sonic game in 25 years was made purely by fan developers, and Sonic Team just fucked off? That's unbelievably hilarious.
It's amazing how Sega got a massive success with this game both critically and financially, and yet they didn't capitalize on the success of this game. Goes to show how Sega and Sonic Team are still living in the 90s, like a grandpa with Dimmensia
PagodaWest is also compromised of Sonic fan game developers. It was formed by people who worked on Sonic 2 HD.
Found out just a few days ago that Tee Lopes was composing for Mania. So excited for this game :D
The Sattanas Artwork
Ummm, and why is Tee Lopes composing a guarantee of that exactly? Other than you may/may not like his music?
+William Brown Oops my bad ! I meant a GOOD one. I totally messed up my comment :v
+William Brown Okay, at this point, the likelyhood of Sonic Mania being a GOOD game is like 100 fucking %.
The Sattanas Artwork
LOL No worries dude Hakuna Matata. There's just so many haters in this comment section who have *no* idea what they're talking about that it's sorta fun to call people out on stuff. What's your favorite remix from Tee Lopes? Spring Yard will always be my jam.
Also the sound track, there's only two of them out so far and I already can't stop listening to them.
Feel like you're being a bit unfair on Sonic 2017 here. Sonic Team have proven that they CAN make a good Sonic game with both Colours and Generations.
And Forces bombed, which proves what exactly?
Well done, excellently researched! As someone who's played a fair number of Sonic romhacks, you have no idea how excited I was when I heard THE Taxman was on Sonic Mania (as in your video, the average layman is scratching their head :P). Nexus is one of the smoothest Sonic fangames around, and Megamix is definitely one of the top rom hacks out there.
Its a real testament to the strength of the Sonic fan community. No other franchise has quite a fangame/hack community as the Sonic one. Anyways, again, thank you for this article :)
Sonic Mania does look excellent, and you've made some good points, however...The Sonic Cycle is no longer a thing since Sonic Colours and perhaps Generations arrived. Why? Well in Lost World's case, it was mixed upon it's reveal, so most people were unsure what to think of the game at first. And Sonic Boom: Rise Of Lyric? The Majority of fans weren't hyped for it at all, and became one of the reasons for it's failure and terrible (Maybe overreacted) reception. While people are hyped for Project 2017, it seems more possible that Sonic Team will create an enjoyable experience, from what we've seen so far.
Every time I see a new Super Bunnyhop video show up in my list, I get super excited. They never disappoint.
I don't know much about Sonic 4, but Dimps had it together on the Advance and Rush games, and on the DS version of Colors. Too bad to hear that they're more notorious now for the one that didn't work (Sonic 4) than for all those that did.
And I've only played Sonic CD on the Gems version on Gamecube (and loved it). Can anyone who's played all versions tell me how does it stack up to the original and mobile versions?
Also, I wish Sega could give M2 (creators of the Konami ReBirth series and Sega's 3D Classics series on 3DS, including fantastic, definitive versions of Sonic 1 and 2) a bunch of money to do a brand-new Sonic 2D game, but Sonic Mania looks great as it is.
Dimps only made 2 sonic games.
generations 3ds was considered good but phoned in
Lost World was lacking in challenge. also phoned in.
+Samir Malik I'm pretty sure Dimps made Sonic Advance 1, 2 and 3, Rush, Rush Adventure, Colors DS and 4. I should know, I finished most of them. Their wiki page confirms it. I haven't played the ones you mentioned, but I hear you're correct about both.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimps#Games_developed
3DS generations had really horrible level design...
Pagoda West actually is based in the Sonic Fan Game community as well. They previously developed the fan game "Sonic 2 HD." Like most fan games, it wasn't finished. But it's polish is shown well here in Mania. And as one more bonus fact, the composer for Mania was also the Composer for Sonic 2 HD. Tee Lopes, who you can find on here UA-cam. Every bit of Mania is from Fans who have been wanting to make Sonic Games for years, and have experience in this very style of game. Mania is definitely in the right hands.
the other sonic game will probably use the generations formula and I'm OK whit that
Sonic Mania knew what made Sonic cool. Sonic Team never had a clue.
Pingas at 2:58
s2.quickmeme.com/img/8f/8f2aaa088711d81edcbf169e362e1086e9f4c6f55db6e26acfb0d83d9fb3816b.jpg
If you notice at the end of the 3d sonic trailer it says made by the studio that did Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations. That alone shows that they know which sonic games over the last few years have been successful with fans and that they are listening.
Let's face it, sonic mania would of been perfect without denuvo; no complaints would of come and the devs would of have to dealt with the unstoppable and natural flow of game piracy.
This video is so good I actually enjoyed watching it again almost a year later
this is may be an another reason why sonic fanboys knew how to make better sonic games than sonic team itself. seems like sonic fanboys really knew what is good and what is bad.. lol
Schroeder M. Schulz another reason why what sega does that nintendon't
DukeThe EXE.hog Whish Sega would be big AS they used to be tbh so they could hire more fan devs
*The modder of today is the game dev of tomorrow*
My greatest hope is that Sonic Mania turns out to be the biggest success since generations and they will continue to let these guys develop the 2d series alongside the 3d.
Can you imagine?
That's....actually nothing new. the 2D series has been growing and evolving on handheld ever since SEGA dropped out of the market
Sonic 4 is trash
Sonic 4 is good
@@rodolfochavez5764 no
Absolutely stellar video, very well researched and presented. Glad I'm subscribed to you mate!
I thought it looks like a desperate move, a good one, but still... it's like... Sega is so dry in ideas to make Sonic relevant again they went for full-fledged nostalgia. And I like this, I am excited for this game, and Sonic Generations is the only Sonic game I liked in years... but what does that say about the Sonic Team and Sega in general? It's sort of sad if you think about it. It's like "well, there is no way for modern Sonic to not be shit, so here's the 90s again".
colors, generations and lost world were all good sonic games. and every single one came out after 2009 which is the last time sonic team made a bad sonic game. so that's basically 7 years going on 8 where the main line sonic have consistently been of quality. I really do not get the hate anymore.
A very optimistic video for what is some really good news, which makes me very happy.
Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends are still the best Sonic games ever made.
BUT I think Sonic's still on our minds and in our hearts after all this time because even though he's got a bunch of recent high profile crap games his concept, his good games, still shine through the turds so hard that we still hope beyond reason that his caretakers will get their act together. Any game that looks like it's returning to form, that feels or at least looks fast and responsive, will get people excited.
This was amazing! Great work!
I guess project sonic does kinda fit in the cycle, but I really think people are saying that because it looks like crisis city from sonic 06, but you making sense are probably saying that because we don't know much about the game, and I agree with you
This is an amazingly well researched and produced video. Kudos to the creator.
Taxman is one of the main reasons I'm hyped for Mania, he knows what he's doing and he loves the franchise.
Why did UA-cam wait until now to recommend this?
So nice to see how far along these guys have come.
this is professional grade journalism, well researched, interesting and informative.
tell me you're being sarcastic
This video reminded me that not everyone else on the internet visits Sonic Retro almost every day for 8 years.
I'm glad you went in detail on the Sonic Mania's developer's experience. Really gives me hope for the game, as when it was unveiled, I was just thinking "please don't be another Sonic 4".
Putting Sonic in the hands of people that clearly know what a good Sonic game is is a smart move. Although, I'm not writing the new 3D Sonic off just yet. It honestly just looks like Generations 2, and if that's what they're doing, that's a pretty smart move as well. It's definitely the best 3D Sonic to date.
In any case, I'm glad it seems like Lost World and Boom are getting buried.
for people who have been asking what about Sonic Color's, Generations, etc. A good thing to remember is that great things are treasured bad games are remembered and mocked where average games are forgotten this can be applied to anything books movies video games another factor is who marketing but most of the time the developers just don't have enough money to fund that
I love what Taxman & Stealth have done. Sonic CD was a favorite of mine growing up with only a PC to game on. So when they forced people to remember it - and made it easier to run on modern hardware. I am soooo excited to see this Saturn-like 2D game. :D
Don't forget TeeLopes, he's been making remixes for years and is now working on the soundtrack. I love the mini boss theme
George, the Steam version of Sonic CD is the Taxman remaster! It's the only mobile port to be ported to Steam, Sonic 1 and 2 are still mobile only, for some reason.
Wow, Sega is actually doing what the fans want, and putting a beloved franchise in talented developers hands? Capcom, take note.
They can still pull an Activision and release the game months before it's finished. At least they've managed to make the engine work already, so that won't be an issue either way.
If this was published by Acti, the game would've been out for weeks now.
+Mezurashii5 That won't be happening thanks to ATLUS' convincing
Nintendo could also take note. Not on how to make games, but on how to not treat their fans like garbage, and embrace fanmade stuff instead of trying to crush any project that get interest from people.
Major Magnet's music composer, Tee Lopes, is also a huge Sonic fan and has posted tons of remixes on UA-cam. That's actually how I discovered Major Magnet in the first place.