There is a clear difference in that Carrier actually studied the sources that he cites, whereas the christian guy seems to know then only superficially.
Look at the look of panic on the face of the Christian whenever Richard asks a question, then look at how calm Richard is when they fire back. A Christian only has one answer to their beliefs "it's written in the scriptures, but they have no proof that the scriptures are true or that God even exists. I'll stick to things that can be proven.
I grew up in the cult of catholicism.. Alter boy, whole nine. I was an atheist by the time I was 16. I have a degree in Classical studies. However, it had never occurred to me to question the historicity of Jesus. I would like to thank dr Carrier for opening the door for me to be even more iconoclastic than I already was. I am often astounded by the amount of people who assume the historicity of Jesus with not a shred of evidence, who then put the burden of proving his non existence on me.
And yet, they walk the earth. I'm sorry, but except I shall see in their hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into their sides, I will not believe.
@@MarcillaSmith So quoting a myth story from the Bible accomplishes what exactly? Do you believe in talking snakes and Noah's Ark and creating the earth and life in 6 days also?
This is yet another battle between "belief" ( from the root word, " lief, " which means " to wish " ) and those who value a process of scrupulously truthful examination of data, that discards anything that doesn't hold up under sustained, critical examination. Still, "Myths are stories that never happened, but are always happening."
Yes. At the risk of sounding esoteric, there is a Christianity taught to children at Vacation Bible School as they make construction paper dioramas of Noah's ark. And there is another Christianity which must be sought for diligently and with discernment.
@@MarcillaSmith Thanks for your response Marcilla. It's comforting to know that there are people like yourself for whom discernment and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
There's a line in Shakespeare that says, "I would invite you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed." That's Carrier. And yes, there is a tremendous amount of documentary and contemporary eyewitness evidence that The Bard did exist.
3 місяці тому
Yes we do know tge Bard existed, we just are not sure who the Bard was. Hmmm. Have a good day.
After searching the net for some clarity..and never really being convinced...Mr carrier kinda feels like the only barrow he has to push..is the truth.thanks.
"Mark's Geography and the origin of Mark's Gospel with Professor Richard Bauckham" shows that the errors in Mark lines up with the dimly remembered travels of a local fisherman.
Although I agree with the Atheists' positions, I don't consider their debate strategies to be good. They were more dedicated to over-talking their opponents. it was good a time or two when Dr. Carrier acknowledge the validity of one of his opponents arguments, but not how he said it. The bigger problem is two-fold. First, all of their quotes seem to come from the KJV version of the Bible. Simply using NIV or another version for 2 Peter 3:4 would have revealed the Christian argument better -- 2 Peter was not referring to their "literal" fathers, but to their "ancestors." The Christian also made a great claim at the end that the entire chapter was about the Resurrection, thereby debunking the Atheist argument. I was surprised they did not mention the "scoffers." The other big problem is that in Zechariah 6, there are 2 different sections (again, more clear if you're not using KJV.) The first section is about an unnamed angel (not an archangel) and the second part is about putting a crown on the head of the high priest, "Joshua son of Jozadak." Most likely, this is where the "Jesus" reference comes from, and I agree that they are the same name. However, this is not the angel in-question. If this were a specific claim made by Philo of Alexandria, it would have been nice if either of the Atheists said so, but they did not, and the Christians did not counter them. This same problem comes up several times in the Bible when Jesu misquotes a Bible verse, and nobody corrects him on it.
Back when i was devout, i ALWAYS felt that the atheist arguments made more sense than those of the apologists. I was never able to refute Madalyn Murray o'hair. Here, Carrier is clearly the brain, and he's debating the little toe. Not to be mean, but ...
As a believer I find the arguments put forth by the atheist side unconvincing. That other atheist find them convincing does not surprise me at all. I kinda like that in athletic contests like boxing when one guy gets knocked out there is a clear winner. But when there is no knockout, either side may think their guy was better. That the atheists think their side won is just an example of this. As a believer, this debate and others I have watched haven't even dented my armor. If you are an atheist these guys are your heroes, because they support your already held opinions on the subject and seemingly give it support with stuff like textural criticism/the opinions of mostly unbelieving egg heads. So much of the stuff in academia is debatable as to having any validity. Glad I have God's word to guide me through this world ruled by evil men who are their own god subject to all the passions that that entails.
gods word sucks ,did you read the psalms in the bible about infanticide,smashing children’s heads against rocks, ripping a baby from a woman’s womb, god giving the Israelites the green light light to slaughter the Canaanites and take their land.The bible is evil nonsense.
@@fuzzycounsellor9147 good points ✌️,whether it’s gods plan or not ,i cannot look past the fact that over 5 million children starve to death under the age of 5 every year,or that so many children are in agony at some cancer hospital,that said all the best to you and your family.
*Paul’s flesh Jesus* 2 Corinthians 5:15-17 … From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though *we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.* Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. This seems to sum up Paul’s position and it benefitted his “My experience is superior because it is non-flesh” schtick.
We have tons of people in religious/political cults like the one led by Trump who fanatically believe all sorts of things that are not true, at 34:50 in the video
God is the object of our love, we should share in an infinite happiness, without any mixture or possibility of diminution; we should rejoice to behold the glory of God, and receive comfort and pleasure from all the praises wherewith men and angels do extol him. It should delight us, beyond all expression, to consider, that the beloved of our souls is infinitely happy in himself, and that all his enemies cannot shake or unsettle his throne: “that our God is in the heavens, and doth whatever he pleaseth.”
@@enkibumbu No Easter Bunny will Create the Universe, being Lord God Almighty Incarnate, and save Grace Evangelist John Stewart from Hell fire, to his Holy Heaven... praising him forever and ever on his white throne... ALL Glory and Honor and Praise to THE LORD JESUS CHRIST !!
Actually his actual name was Yeshu. Even Irenaeus admits his actual name was spelled with "two and a half" Hebrew letters. That's yod, shin, and vav. Yod is the "half letter". Unfortunately that Jesus is recorded in the Talmud as having lived under Alexander Jannaeus when he was actually crucified or was stoned and then hung on a pole or impaled upon a stake.
@@edwardmiessner6502yes. To further add, "Joshua" would be more like "Yehoshua" (fought the battle of Jericho, for instance), whereas "Yeshu" would be more like "Josh." Lord Josh, I trust in Thee.
There is a clear difference in that Carrier actually studied the sources that he cites, whereas the christian guy seems to know then only superficially.
Dr Carrier, thank you for wasting your time debating adults with childlike minds, so we don't have to.
Well said.
Ψιτ😊λυφ
Υυφψ
Ψ
This is like Novak Djokovic turning up to your local tennis club competition.
I feel sorry for the poor bastard that had to mop up all the blood !
that was actually hilarious
You are hilarious. 🙂
Or Wayne Gretzky
@@haydenwalton2766 Stop! Stop! He's already dead.
@@haydenwalton2766
Look at the look of panic on the face of the Christian whenever Richard asks a question, then look at how calm Richard is when they fire back.
A Christian only has one answer to their beliefs "it's written in the scriptures, but they have no proof that the scriptures are true or that God even exists.
I'll stick to things that can be proven.
I grew up in the cult of catholicism.. Alter boy, whole nine. I was an atheist by the time I was 16. I have a degree in Classical studies. However, it had never occurred to me to question the historicity of Jesus. I would like to thank dr Carrier for opening the door for me to be even more iconoclastic than I already was. I am often astounded by the amount of people who assume the historicity of Jesus with not a shred of evidence, who then put the burden of proving his non existence on me.
USA needs a smart President, how about it Richard?
Got my vote.
Wow! Richard Crucified these guys! ..... ohhhh 🙊
I couldn't agree more
Nailed it.
And yet, they walk the earth. I'm sorry, but except I shall see in their hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into their sides, I will not believe.
@@MarcillaSmithI heard that 👍
@@MarcillaSmith So quoting a myth story from the Bible accomplishes what exactly? Do you believe in talking snakes and Noah's Ark and creating the earth and life in 6 days also?
This is yet another battle between "belief" ( from the root word, " lief, " which means " to wish " ) and those who value a process of scrupulously truthful examination of data, that discards anything that doesn't hold up under sustained, critical examination. Still, "Myths are stories that never happened, but are always happening."
Yes. At the risk of sounding esoteric, there is a Christianity taught to children at Vacation Bible School as they make construction paper dioramas of Noah's ark. And there is another Christianity which must be sought for diligently and with discernment.
@@MarcillaSmith Thanks for your response Marcilla. It's comforting to know that there are people like yourself for whom discernment and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
Carrier is ver unfair, fighting against unarmed opponents like that.
😂
The christian apologist Mr Microphone just couldn't win arguments..
Good job Richard!
he lost like a dog
@@KolyaUrtz What Explain how the historical scholar lost to the make-pretend world guy...
Some people write a story and millions believe it because it's shoved into their heads from an early age.
There’s some praying to be done by the sound guy...
Damn! Carrier had no choice... The Apologist just gave him no choice... A bloodbath was inevitable. How does someone like that even show up for this?
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and many other authors of the Bible with no last name , Every book ever written the authors have a last name
There's a line in Shakespeare that says, "I would invite you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed." That's Carrier. And yes, there is a tremendous amount of documentary and contemporary eyewitness evidence that The Bard did exist.
Yes we do know tge Bard existed, we just are not sure who the Bard was. Hmmm. Have a good day.
Parabéns Carrier você e seu companheiro deram uma surra em todos os argumentos fracos dos cristãos.
After searching the net for some clarity..and never really being convinced...Mr carrier kinda feels like the only barrow he has to push..is the truth.thanks.
"Mark's Geography and the origin of Mark's Gospel with Professor Richard Bauckham" shows that the errors in Mark lines up with the dimly remembered travels of a local fisherman.
Carrier did great. His debate partner however.... not so much. Lot of irrelevant and tangential arguments.
I'm right because I'm right. You're wrong because I'm right. Because it says so in the bible.
Like the way Carrier takes over this debate.
Jesus was a scapegoat, I feel really bad for him, if he existed at all that is, especially as a kid.
It dosent matter,if it helps some people just have fun with Jesus!
How do you even recover from a bloodbath like this?!
Although I agree with the Atheists' positions, I don't consider their debate strategies to be good. They were more dedicated to over-talking their opponents. it was good a time or two when Dr. Carrier acknowledge the validity of one of his opponents arguments, but not how he said it. The bigger problem is two-fold. First, all of their quotes seem to come from the KJV version of the Bible. Simply using NIV or another version for 2 Peter 3:4 would have revealed the Christian argument better -- 2 Peter was not referring to their "literal" fathers, but to their "ancestors." The Christian also made a great claim at the end that the entire chapter was about the Resurrection, thereby debunking the Atheist argument. I was surprised they did not mention the "scoffers." The other big problem is that in Zechariah 6, there are 2 different sections (again, more clear if you're not using KJV.) The first section is about an unnamed angel (not an archangel) and the second part is about putting a crown on the head of the high priest, "Joshua son of Jozadak." Most likely, this is where the "Jesus" reference comes from, and I agree that they are the same name. However, this is not the angel in-question. If this were a specific claim made by Philo of Alexandria, it would have been nice if either of the Atheists said so, but they did not, and the Christians did not counter them. This same problem comes up several times in the Bible when Jesu misquotes a Bible verse, and nobody corrects him on it.
Back when i was devout, i ALWAYS felt that the atheist arguments made more sense than those of the apologists. I was never able to refute Madalyn Murray o'hair. Here, Carrier is clearly the brain, and he's debating the little toe. Not to be mean, but ...
I've never seen someone get so Hitchslapped as what Carrier did to the little Christian boy.
I feel sorry for Carrier. Smith is a liability. If RC chose him as his sidekick, his judgement was poor.
Wow, Carrier totaly wipes the floor with those guys...
Carrier 4 presendency
As a believer I find the arguments put forth by the atheist side unconvincing. That other atheist find them convincing does not surprise me at all.
I kinda like that in athletic contests like boxing when one guy gets knocked out there is a clear winner. But when there is no knockout, either side may think their guy was better. That the atheists think their side won is just an example of this.
As a believer, this debate and others I have watched haven't even dented my armor. If you are an atheist these guys are your heroes, because they support your already held opinions on the subject and seemingly give it support with stuff like textural criticism/the opinions of mostly unbelieving egg heads.
So much of the stuff in academia is debatable as to having any validity. Glad I have God's word to guide me through this world ruled by evil men who are their own god subject to all the passions that that entails.
gods word sucks ,did you read the psalms in the bible about infanticide,smashing children’s heads against rocks, ripping a baby from a woman’s womb, god giving the Israelites the green light light to slaughter the Canaanites and take their land.The bible is evil nonsense.
The debate is about if a historical Jesus existed (on earth), not if there is a god.
@@fuzzycounsellor9147 good points ✌️,whether it’s gods plan or not ,i cannot look past the fact that over 5 million children starve to death under the age of 5 every year,or that so many children are in agony at some cancer hospital,that said all the best to you and your family.
These god believers is like kids…. Talk about Santa Clause instead
*Paul’s flesh Jesus*
2 Corinthians 5:15-17
… From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though *we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.* Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
This seems to sum up Paul’s position and it benefitted his “My experience is superior because it is non-flesh” schtick.
Really he came up with Luke is a great historian LIE just shockingly ignorant christian
Why can christians not work out a CLAIM is not evidence
We have tons of people in religious/political cults like the one led by Trump who fanatically believe all sorts of things that are not true, at 34:50 in the video
Yes.
The Bible's version of him was and is a myth.
The Ed Begley Jr lookalike guy was good. Very logical.
Alleghory !!!
🤔 very well known, yet had to give judas 30 sheckles to point him out, yep, sounds logical 😜
Mythisist are fun. Left field.
God is the object of our love, we should share in an infinite happiness, without any mixture or possibility of diminution; we should rejoice to behold the glory of God, and receive comfort and pleasure from all the praises wherewith men and angels do extol him.
It should delight us, beyond all expression, to consider, that the beloved of our souls is infinitely happy in himself, and that all his enemies cannot shake or unsettle his throne: “that our God is in the heavens, and doth whatever he pleaseth.”
So is the Easter Bunny.
@@enkibumbu No Easter Bunny will Create the Universe, being Lord God Almighty Incarnate, and save Grace Evangelist John Stewart from Hell fire, to his Holy Heaven... praising him forever and ever on his white throne... ALL Glory and Honor and Praise to THE LORD JESUS CHRIST !!
@@johnstewart4350 "No Easter Bunny will Create the Universe." I beg to differ.
I'm right because I'm right. You're wrong because you're wrong. Because it says so in the bible.
Richard Carrier steamrolled these guys 🤣🤣🤣. This a certified hood Classic.
I think if your going to debate the existence of Jesus don't you think you should know his actual name which is Yeshua or as it translates to Joshua.
Actually his actual name was Yeshu. Even Irenaeus admits his actual name was spelled with "two and a half" Hebrew letters. That's yod, shin, and vav. Yod is the "half letter". Unfortunately that Jesus is recorded in the Talmud as having lived under Alexander Jannaeus when he was actually crucified or was stoned and then hung on a pole or impaled upon a stake.
No hes real name is Ronald!
@@edwardmiessner6502yes. To further add, "Joshua" would be more like "Yehoshua" (fought the battle of Jericho, for instance), whereas "Yeshu" would be more like "Josh."
Lord Josh, I trust in Thee.
@@brunoheggli2888 And his last name is McDonald.