Just wanted to correct something I said around the 6:21 mark. Godborn isn't actually a new difficulty but rather a new version of NG+. It carries over your level, stats, items, demos, etc, but it also makes every enemy in the game level 150. When starting a Godborn run, you can select any difficulty, including Safety. My bad guys, just unlocked it for myself lol -Tin
I did not know that. Thanks for letting me know! The early years for Atlus are admittedly a pretty big blindspot for me. They were way before my time. -Tin
@@ozzy2012 Nope; if you fuse Lucifer [you can do that now] he'll outright confirm he is the same Lucifier as SMT3. Also; in Shinjuku; it's said Armageddon started in a hospital nearby... just like Nocturne. Even if SMTV's world isn't the same as SMT3; it's a world that follows the exact same path, and Lucifer and the Demi-Fiend wind up here after their war against the Creator in SMT3, making it a parallel dimension that still has some of the same characters.
That is really cool, but I think it could have done with a little more variety. Nothing against them, but it's pretty much just Tao and the new girl. -Tim
the law vs chaos endings aren't ALWAYS just tied to top or bottom, there are several main quest times where answering the top selection to yoko will sway you drastically towards chaos and same with tao
I loved this game right up until the end. I was kind of disappointed in how the ending was pretty much the same. I wish they spent a few more minutes in the writing room for it lol. Oh well amazing game and I’m kind of sad it’s come and gone for me already. I haven’t been excited for a new game to drop in yearssss so that was cool
I laughed my ass off when I got to the ending. I had hoped they improved the story, but then I realized it was choose your wifu (church girl vs goth gf), and i started laughing uncontrollably.
ending definitely needed a little more than pick X thing which cov still had the issue of the scaling "seemed" better this time around, some demons had their in the wild level reduced, or had them moved (Yamata No Orochi is moved from area 4's nordic area for example). spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, close to ending spoiler I don't like that we don't keep the Vengeance exclusive form, very stinky.
I'm loving the vengeance story route, it really fleshes out characters that barely got two minutes of screen time. Forgive the subject change but I haven't seen it anywhere online; When doing any of the new game plus options, do Gustaves unlocked essences carry over or will I have to start over in that regard?
I played the original SMT V. As soon I saw the trailer for Vengeance, I knew I was buying it day 1 (I did, and I got the last steel book edition they had 💀). I haven’t finished the canon of vengeance yet, but so far, I’m glad I didn’t wait to get the game. Maybe I’ll buy Nocturne later down the line. SMT V was my first ATLUS game, and coming from an other guy who played the original, I definitely recommend you play vengeance as well, even if you played the original.
currently playing the game and I think I'm about half way through, just got my new "form". what I'm most disappointed about is the SMT aspect that was completely forgotten. Yeah I made decisions so far, but most of them you had to decide between "Yes" and "Of Course" it feels like. Also the Alignment system so far is only existent in the demon compendium. Like, that was *THE* aspect I loved so much about the games. Choose how your story plays out. In the Original SMT 5 you got to choose the ending right before it happened. Still hoping they "fixed" this is Vengance but I have my doubts. I just hope they didn't forget the one aspect that made SMT what it is today
Hey great video! I just wanted to update some info as I’ve played the original completely many times. In the original you don’t have all three ending from the start. Your choices actually matter. It’s only in vengeance that the original endings are a freebie. And the choices only matter for the vengeance run. Also in the original there is a hidden secret 4th ending which is really awesome. Not many people know of it. I wonder if there is a hidden 3rd ending in this game for Vengeance?
I knew about the secret ending but wasn't aware of the choices you make actually impacting stuff. Might have to check that out. Thanks for the comment! -Tin
I'm pretty happy with Vengeance (especially with the second last boss in venceance's law path) the only thing that kinda grinds my gears, is that they still killed Saori..... I thought there'd be an option to at least keep her alive but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo xD
Yeah, that kind of bummed me out, too. That's where the story really started to change, so why couldn't they just keep her alive at the point? My best guess is because they considered it something that had to happen for Tao's character development or something. -Tin
I never expected SMTV Vengeance to be bigger, the Vengeance route felt like it had more content though. Whatever way you want to see it, the game is definitely better, the added features are a big plus. One downside of the open field kind of thing that SMTV has going for it, is that there is a serious lack of dungeons, just in general, there are some, but not enough for my taste, because the game is not "dungeon based" anymore, which is actually fine, but I love my dungeons, and it is noticeable for me personally. The difficulty is an intersting one, I feel like some of the bosses are easier than the original, others are much harder, and you definitely want to plan around those. But SMTV is definitely easier than SMT3, because its more fair, you can see all the information about an enemy or boss by analyzing them (except for their HP) that alone makes the game easier, but in the right way in my opinion. Just the Magatsu Rails, the fact that you can save anywhere and that Abcesses don't obfuscate the map anymore, makes Vengeance better than the original.
My only gripe is the lack of neutral ending in the new story. I thought that the "Vengeance" part refers to both Bethel and Quadistu, after seeing how much damage both of those factions did, and even when it comes to the protagonist, it is still rather personal. It would've been cool to have an ending where you basically destroy them all. Still, they did manage to make a compelling revenge story.
I think the vengeance bits refer more so to Yoko, since she's the one with the eyes set on vengeance from the start while the protagonist act more as her counterbalance. What i would had liked to see was a true chaos ending similar to what you described, similar to how there is a true neutral ending in CoC.
Vengeance was doing so well up until the 4 way Qadistu fight, the story falls off a steep cliff after it. Dazai remains one of the single worst fumbles Atlus has ever made.
@@majesticderp Well he doesn't JUST heel turn, Mastema clearly did something to him. I do think waiting to have Dazai be a guest party member so late was a big mistake, the rest of the cast got way more development in Canon of Vengeance in comparison.
The OG story is already garbage, Vengeance is a little bit better. However it baffles me that a 2024 release doesn’t have auto-saves. I’ve heard that you can’t just buy the DLC separately is you already owned the original. It’s even more embarassing if we compare with games half or 1/3 of the price are superior to Vengeance in technicals. Whether this game is enjoyable or good is purely subjective, but the quality and service from Atlus is utter trash. A usual money grabber. I really enjoyed P5R, and happily paid $5 for it and Vengeance as a gift. But to support these kind of behaviour by double dipping is just… sad.
The final arc ruined the story, instead of fixing it they managed to make it even more rushed and disappointing. Gameplay wise Vengeance is perfect, in terms of story it's ok, better than the original but still very weak. This also shows me that after SMT IV, the team of writters that are know handling the story is kinda bad(the people behind V's story are the same ones from TMS, IV Apocalypse and some from SH2 with some supervisors of other games, and judging by how these other games were also bad story wise, SMT is in bad hands regarding story, wish that the same doesn't happen with Persona's side since the next game will be entirely made by the people behind P5R and P3R which so far have doing greatly opposed to the SMT side).
I dunno i think the CoV final act was hard to really make interesting to begin with considering how strict the empyrean function, with the keys and all that. The final zone more or less was constructed with the CoC narrative in mind aka. a fight between various potential Nahobinos which never came to true fruition in my opinion. Instead we got the leaders of the various other Bethel branches to take the keys from. In a sense i don't even get why anyone but the protagonist could even get to the the throne, since he is the only one with the key and a proper guide. What i would probably had done in CoV, would had been to have Tao inform us that Yoko already had opened the empyrean and the protagonist instead get teleported straight there and when they reach the top, they see that Yoko have already destroyed the throne. Hence the neutral route in CoC would had already been put in motion. This could lead up to the alignment choice, where if we are going down the law route we side with Tao and Goko/Amitabha and attempt to recreate the throne anew. The alternative to this would be to side with Yoko to do some McGuffin solution to stop Bethel, Tao, Mastema and Goko from recreating the throne and restore god's order. This would make it possible to have the final zone of the game vastly different depending on which route you are taking... more so then just changing which boss shows up where. With that being said, CoV is far superior even in the final act in my opinion then the original... I just kinda wished they didn't just change which bosses you fight while the overall zone is the same.
Smt4 literally took a nose dive after a certain point the characters and how they suddenly changed felt like complete ass pulls, but I guess the dumpster fire of a fanbase won’t remember it because it’s cool to shit on the new game while praising the older ones.
@@نونيم-ي4ح Well vengeance ain't much better in that respect. The dialogues with the companions flesh it out a bit, but it ain't exactly the pinnacle of storytelling and to be frank that have never been SMT's strongest feature... I liked SMT4, but it sort of suffered near the end, Apocalypse even if it was a overall weaker story still maintained the same beat. So it seems like the writers really struggle with how to handle the alignment based story structure... and to be fair, i wouldn't mind if they dropped it if they just can't get it right to begin with. A change i would suggest for their writers would be that If they want a representative for each alignment, they could just do so by having three different playable characters. Sure these separate characters can intersect at some points during their respective stories, but each character have their own separate story side-quests and perhaps even areas. Then they instead have: Neutral/True neutral, Law/True Law, Chaos/True Chaos endings to make people feel like their choices matter somehow... because honestly choices haven't affected the story much at all the past few games anyway.
In the original game, it's a combo of NG+ and those EXP Mitamas, while Vengeance is just easier to level up thanks to the new auto-battle + consecutive battle features. -Tin
@@sock312 Dazai was actually the reason why I dislike Vengeance story more so than the vanilla version. Because everything important that involved him (like his character growth and changed in personality) happened in the background. From the 'betrayal' to his angel's transformation. I don't really like vanilla story either. But at least, as the story goes, I can see his sanity went down bit by bit. How he slowly turned to the 'Law' side and everything that don't support it means sacriledge I think...besides the two girls, the only character they didn't do dirty in Vengeance was Yakumo. Even Yuzuru got a bit of an NPC treatment. Where he was there just as a Lore dump guy. I still hate how he explained the true identity of our Mayor in a single paragraph. No cutscene whatsoever But opinion is subjective. Even if I dislike the story, it was still fun to play. After all, I was hooked on my switch for a week nonstop playing this game haha
I definitely liked Vengeance's story better, but I see where you're coming from. Especially in regards to Dazai. It didn't really bother me because I didn't think he was very interesting at all in the original story, but I'm also not super into any of the characters in SMTV. -Tin
Just wanted to correct something I said around the 6:21 mark. Godborn isn't actually a new difficulty but rather a new version of NG+. It carries over your level, stats, items, demos, etc, but it also makes every enemy in the game level 150. When starting a Godborn run, you can select any difficulty, including Safety. My bad guys, just unlocked it for myself lol -Tin
Yes.
I agree - Tin
Smt 2 is a direct sequel to smt1 but otherwise yeah 5 is basically a sequel to nocturne
In spirit cause they’re not actually connected aside from Demi fiend traveling through diff universes to get to this one
I did not know that. Thanks for letting me know! The early years for Atlus are admittedly a pretty big blindspot for me. They were way before my time. -Tin
@@ozzy2012 in the demon haunt, Lucifer essentially confirms he’s the same one from nocturne as well
@@TinMaxx yeah they were well before I was born but I’ve been replaying them recently
@@ozzy2012 Nope; if you fuse Lucifer [you can do that now] he'll outright confirm he is the same Lucifier as SMT3.
Also; in Shinjuku; it's said Armageddon started in a hospital nearby... just like Nocturne.
Even if SMTV's world isn't the same as SMT3; it's a world that follows the exact same path, and Lucifer and the Demi-Fiend wind up here after their war against the Creator in SMT3, making it a parallel dimension that still has some of the same characters.
Just finished my first playthrough and I had a blast. My favorite addition is having the human characters be playable in the new story route.
That is really cool, but I think it could have done with a little more variety. Nothing against them, but it's pretty much just Tao and the new girl. -Tim
the law vs chaos endings aren't ALWAYS just tied to top or bottom, there are several main quest times where answering the top selection to yoko will sway you drastically towards chaos and same with tao
Good to know. Thanks -Tin
I loved this game right up until the end. I was kind of disappointed in how the ending was pretty much the same. I wish they spent a few more minutes in the writing room for it lol. Oh well amazing game and I’m kind of sad it’s come and gone for me already. I haven’t been excited for a new game to drop in yearssss so that was cool
I feel the exact same way about the ending. It was underwhelming, but other than that, I loved the game! -Tin
I laughed my ass off when I got to the ending. I had hoped they improved the story, but then I realized it was choose your wifu (church girl vs goth gf), and i started laughing uncontrollably.
The game for me was really amazing up until the all the Qadistu died and after that it kinda dropped off in quality and the ending was underwhelming
@@philipalexander6450the endings were great bruh. The game story fall off for a moment then goes back to being good
@@TinMaxx yeah same. I feel like they could’ve made the ending a litttttle bit more interesting, but I’m not a giant game company so what do I know
I'm enjoying it more than vanilla SMT5.
Nice!!! That is what remakes should do!- Maxx
ending definitely needed a little more than pick X thing which cov still had the issue of
the scaling "seemed" better this time around, some demons had their in the wild level reduced, or had them moved (Yamata No Orochi is moved from area 4's nordic area for example).
spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, close to ending spoiler
I don't like that we don't keep the Vengeance exclusive form, very stinky.
I'm loving the vengeance story route, it really fleshes out characters that barely got two minutes of screen time.
Forgive the subject change but I haven't seen it anywhere online; When doing any of the new game plus options, do Gustaves unlocked essences carry over or will I have to start over in that regard?
Pretty sure you have to start over. At least thats been the case in my NG+ playthrough. -Tin
I played the original SMT V. As soon I saw the trailer for Vengeance, I knew I was buying it day 1 (I did, and I got the last steel book edition they had 💀). I haven’t finished the canon of vengeance yet, but so far, I’m glad I didn’t wait to get the game. Maybe I’ll buy Nocturne later down the line. SMT V was my first ATLUS game, and coming from an other guy who played the original, I definitely recommend you play vengeance as well, even if you played the original.
Don't tell me it has denuvo
Unfortunately, it does seem to be standard for PC versions of Atlus games. -Tin
Cant pirate it huh? Lmao
currently playing the game and I think I'm about half way through, just got my new "form".
what I'm most disappointed about is the SMT aspect that was completely forgotten.
Yeah I made decisions so far, but most of them you had to decide between "Yes" and "Of Course" it feels like.
Also the Alignment system so far is only existent in the demon compendium. Like, that was *THE* aspect I loved so much about the games. Choose how your story plays out.
In the Original SMT 5 you got to choose the ending right before it happened. Still hoping they "fixed" this is Vengance but I have my doubts. I just hope they didn't forget the one aspect that made SMT what it is today
from what i’ve heard, vengeance only has 2 endings (lame) but it is determined by your dialogue decisions at least
Great review but demons and personas are not the same thing, so is not a matter of prefference how you call them.
Lol we will keep that in mind 😂- Maxx
Hey great video! I just wanted to update some info as I’ve played the original completely many times. In the original you don’t have all three ending from the start. Your choices actually matter. It’s only in vengeance that the original endings are a freebie. And the choices only matter for the vengeance run. Also in the original there is a hidden secret 4th ending which is really awesome. Not many people know of it. I wonder if there is a hidden 3rd ending in this game for Vengeance?
I knew about the secret ending but wasn't aware of the choices you make actually impacting stuff. Might have to check that out. Thanks for the comment! -Tin
smt 2 is a direct sequel to smt1 so you can say that smt5 is the only "sequel" to a modern smt game
I'm pretty happy with Vengeance (especially with the second last boss in venceance's law path)
the only thing that kinda grinds my gears, is that they still killed Saori..... I thought there'd be an option to at least keep her alive but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo xD
Yeah, that kind of bummed me out, too. That's where the story really started to change, so why couldn't they just keep her alive at the point? My best guess is because they considered it something that had to happen for Tao's character development or something. -Tin
I KNOW like while I was playing I was fully expecting her to stay alive, but I guess not.
I mean its SMT, Im not really expecting most of the cast to have a happy endings to be fair.
I never expected SMTV Vengeance to be bigger, the Vengeance route felt like it had more content though. Whatever way you want to see it, the game is definitely better, the added features are a big plus. One downside of the open field kind of thing that SMTV has going for it, is that there is a serious lack of dungeons, just in general, there are some, but not enough for my taste, because the game is not "dungeon based" anymore, which is actually fine, but I love my dungeons, and it is noticeable for me personally.
The difficulty is an intersting one, I feel like some of the bosses are easier than the original, others are much harder, and you definitely want to plan around those. But SMTV is definitely easier than SMT3, because its more fair, you can see all the information about an enemy or boss by analyzing them (except for their HP) that alone makes the game easier, but in the right way in my opinion.
Just the Magatsu Rails, the fact that you can save anywhere and that Abcesses don't obfuscate the map anymore, makes Vengeance better than the original.
My only gripe is the lack of neutral ending in the new story. I thought that the "Vengeance" part refers to both Bethel and Quadistu, after seeing how much damage both of those factions did, and even when it comes to the protagonist, it is still rather personal. It would've been cool to have an ending where you basically destroy them all. Still, they did manage to make a compelling revenge story.
I think the vengeance bits refer more so to Yoko, since she's the one with the eyes set on vengeance from the start while the protagonist act more as her counterbalance. What i would had liked to see was a true chaos ending similar to what you described, similar to how there is a true neutral ending in CoC.
Could sb tell me that is the preorder gifts gud or not? Did i missed a lot or its just not that necessary 😢
You're not missing out
Vengeance was doing so well up until the 4 way Qadistu fight, the story falls off a steep cliff after it. Dazai remains one of the single worst fumbles Atlus has ever made.
I was so happy he had bonding moments with Yuzuru and MC, but then he just heel-turns that character development right down the drain =(
I mean, I don't really have any strong feelings about Dazai one way or another but maybe that just proves your point -Tin
Tell me you have never played strange journey without telling me that
@@majesticderp Well he doesn't JUST heel turn, Mastema clearly did something to him. I do think waiting to have Dazai be a guest party member so late was a big mistake, the rest of the cast got way more development in Canon of Vengeance in comparison.
The OG story is already garbage, Vengeance is a little bit better. However it baffles me that a 2024 release doesn’t have auto-saves. I’ve heard that you can’t just buy the DLC separately is you already owned the original. It’s even more embarassing if we compare with games half or 1/3 of the price are superior to Vengeance in technicals.
Whether this game is enjoyable or good is purely subjective, but the quality and service from Atlus is utter trash. A usual money grabber. I really enjoyed P5R, and happily paid $5 for it and Vengeance as a gift. But to support these kind of behaviour by double dipping is just… sad.
We'll keep your opinion in mind next time we make a purchase. Thank you for your service 🙏 -Tin
The final arc ruined the story, instead of fixing it they managed to make it even more rushed and disappointing.
Gameplay wise Vengeance is perfect, in terms of story it's ok, better than the original but still very weak.
This also shows me that after SMT IV, the team of writters that are know handling the story is kinda bad(the people behind V's story are the same ones from TMS, IV Apocalypse and some from SH2 with some supervisors of other games, and judging by how these other games were also bad story wise, SMT is in bad hands regarding story, wish that the same doesn't happen with Persona's side since the next game will be entirely made by the people behind P5R and P3R which so far have doing greatly opposed to the SMT side).
Super disagree
Yeah I dont agree either.
I dunno i think the CoV final act was hard to really make interesting to begin with considering how strict the empyrean function, with the keys and all that. The final zone more or less was constructed with the CoC narrative in mind aka. a fight between various potential Nahobinos which never came to true fruition in my opinion. Instead we got the leaders of the various other Bethel branches to take the keys from. In a sense i don't even get why anyone but the protagonist could even get to the the throne, since he is the only one with the key and a proper guide.
What i would probably had done in CoV, would had been to have Tao inform us that Yoko already had opened the empyrean and the protagonist instead get teleported straight there and when they reach the top, they see that Yoko have already destroyed the throne. Hence the neutral route in CoC would had already been put in motion. This could lead up to the alignment choice, where if we are going down the law route we side with Tao and Goko/Amitabha and attempt to recreate the throne anew. The alternative to this would be to side with Yoko to do some McGuffin solution to stop Bethel, Tao, Mastema and Goko from recreating the throne and restore god's order. This would make it possible to have the final zone of the game vastly different depending on which route you are taking... more so then just changing which boss shows up where.
With that being said, CoV is far superior even in the final act in my opinion then the original... I just kinda wished they didn't just change which bosses you fight while the overall zone is the same.
Smt4 literally took a nose dive after a certain point the characters and how they suddenly changed felt like complete ass pulls, but I guess the dumpster fire of a fanbase won’t remember it because it’s cool to shit on the new game while praising the older ones.
@@نونيم-ي4ح Well vengeance ain't much better in that respect. The dialogues with the companions flesh it out a bit, but it ain't exactly the pinnacle of storytelling and to be frank that have never been SMT's strongest feature...
I liked SMT4, but it sort of suffered near the end, Apocalypse even if it was a overall weaker story still maintained the same beat. So it seems like the writers really struggle with how to handle the alignment based story structure... and to be fair, i wouldn't mind if they dropped it if they just can't get it right to begin with.
A change i would suggest for their writers would be that If they want a representative for each alignment, they could just do so by having three different playable characters. Sure these separate characters can intersect at some points during their respective stories, but each character have their own separate story side-quests and perhaps even areas. Then they instead have: Neutral/True neutral, Law/True Law, Chaos/True Chaos endings to make people feel like their choices matter somehow... because honestly choices haven't affected the story much at all the past few games anyway.
Why are you so overleveled in all of your gameplay?
In the original game, it's a combo of NG+ and those EXP Mitamas, while Vengeance is just easier to level up thanks to the new auto-battle + consecutive battle features. -Tin
@TinMaxx Okay, but you were like 10+ levels over the recommended lvl in Vengeance. Of course it would be much easier
It's an SMT game, so I tried to be as prepared as possible lol plus I did as much side content as possible so that probably helped
@@TinMaxx ok i guess
The gameplay is better. Definitely have a lot of fun playing and grinding. But the story? Man, the story was even worse than the original >
I actually think it was a lot better with the exception of Dazai
@@sock312 Dazai was actually the reason why I dislike Vengeance story more so than the vanilla version. Because everything important that involved him (like his character growth and changed in personality) happened in the background. From the 'betrayal' to his angel's transformation. I don't really like vanilla story either. But at least, as the story goes, I can see his sanity went down bit by bit. How he slowly turned to the 'Law' side and everything that don't support it means sacriledge
I think...besides the two girls, the only character they didn't do dirty in Vengeance was Yakumo. Even Yuzuru got a bit of an NPC treatment. Where he was there just as a Lore dump guy. I still hate how he explained the true identity of our Mayor in a single paragraph. No cutscene whatsoever
But opinion is subjective. Even if I dislike the story, it was still fun to play. After all, I was hooked on my switch for a week nonstop playing this game haha
Story is way better. Not perfect but I vastly prefer Vengeance route and I'm like 50-60h in now
I definitely liked Vengeance's story better, but I see where you're coming from. Especially in regards to Dazai. It didn't really bother me because I didn't think he was very interesting at all in the original story, but I'm also not super into any of the characters in SMTV. -Tin
Objectively wrong take