The revolver is interesting in its own right, Evan, but would be orders of magnitude more so if the alleged connection between it and Tom Horn could be confirmed. Every Friday, I look for your video from the museum, and am always pleased when there is one.
Thanks Noah. It's always a golden moment when we can tie a firearm to an individual with some certainty. We have a Remington 1875 .45 Colt revolver with the name "Jas. (James) Ryan" scratched on the back of the grip. He was the first elected sheriff of Weston County Wyoming, c. 1884, and arrested Harry Longabaugh for stealing a horse, saddle, and gun. Longabaugh was sentenced to 18 months in the Sundance Wyoming jail. And that's one version of how the Sundance Kid got his nickname.
I visited the museum at the end of September 2021 specifically to see Tom Horn's guns and was told that all the guns post dated Tom Horn so they weren't on display any more. All the firearms were incorrect in other words.
Unless the firearm was shipped after Horn was hanged, It is as difficult to prove it wasn't his gun as it is to prove it was. Horn did most of his killing with a rifle, first a .45-60 Winchester Model 1876. After the Winchester Model 1894 came out in caliber .30-30 in 1895, he acquired one in that caliber. So the firearms themselves weren't "incorrect," just not available to Horn before 1903.
@@wsmvolunteers8588the model 94 Winchester was custom ordered by Mr. Horn in 30-30 with the button magazine. Winchester provided a factory letter for it so we know that indeed, it did belong to him. The 45-60 76 model Winchester ended up in the hands of John Coble after Mr. Horn’s death and with the Coble family after John Coble committed suicide.
@3:15 is a good starting point. Like too many UA-cam videos that want to ensure enough minutes for an advertisement, we go back to The Dawn of Man for unnecessary “historical perspective “ and minutia
I was wondering were this Museum is? My next trip to WY I will be glad to see it. That said, do you know when they started using center fire cartilages? I have looked it up, but I think they are confusing rimfire with center fire. I thinking it was 1870's but I am not sure
The Museum is located at 2301 Central Avenue in Cheyenne, Wyoming. I think you are correct that the early cartridges were rimfire. The Smith & Wesson Model 1 was introduced in 1857 and used a .22 caliber rimfire cartridge similar to the modern .22 short. The Henry rifle and the Spencer were both introduced in 1860. Both used a rimfire cartridge. The Henry a .44 Henry and the Spencer a .56-56. Mr. Colt 45 below is correct. The Colt Single Action Army, the Winchester Model 1873, and the Springfield Trapdoor (newly made, not Civil War conversions) all used center fire cartridges. The .38 Short Colt was used in 1851 Colt Navy conversions.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Thanks, I really wanted to see some of the old west artifacts that the Museums has. Like the old guns and maybe Tom Horns Gallows. Being from the east, it was what I really liked about going west. Here we have a lot of CW and AR artifacts.
@@outdoorlife5396 The Laramie County Courthouse has a Tom Horn display with some alleged artifacts on the ground floor of the old section. The Courthouse is downtown in the 300 block of 20th Street.
I'd say .44 S&W American was the first popular centerfire cartridge. What's interesting is the .44 S&W American has external dimensions very similar to the .44 Henry rimfire. There are examples of 1866 Winchester period conversion to .44 S&W.
@@evangreen9430 You are right on the money. In the cattle boom era, the Wyoming Stock Growers Association was the shadow government. Their attempts to control, eliminate, or disenfranchise homesteaders and small cattle operations included refusing to issue brands to them. A classic example is Ella Watson, a homesteader on the Sweetwater River. She made several attempts to get a legitimate brand and was denied. In July of 1889, she and her neighbor (possibly husband) were lynched by cattlemen who accused them of rustling. They libeled her as a prostitute. Five cattlemen were arrested for the murders. They posted bond, were never brought to trial or held accountable.
No double action reproductions to my knowledge. There are reproductions of single action top break revolvers such as the Schofield, the .44 American, the .44 Model #3 Russian. They run about $1200 or so.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Can we get enough people interested in buying a DA top-break revolver to get Uberti to produce them? Maybe start a petition? How many purchase orders would be needed to get the ball rolling, do you think?
@@AndrewKarpyszyn Mike Harvey at Cimarron Firearms has taken the lead in developing new reproductions by Uberti. He was instrumental in the recent limited run of Smith & Wesson Number 3 Americans and the New Model Number 3 Frontier, both single action break top revolvers. Harvey was also responsible in the early days of reproductions of encouraging Uberti to make exact replicas. You might contact Cimarron to see if they are interested in getting a double action. I think the market for single action reproductions is driven in large part by Cowboy Action competition shooters. To the best of my knowledge, none of the organizations sponsoring those matches allow double action revolvers except in the pocket pistol side matches. So with that portion of potential purchases removed, I think demand for a DA revolver is limited. Worth a shot, though, to contact Mike.
DA/SA DA: DOUBLE ACTION THE HAMMER IN THE DOWN POSITION IS PULL/COCKED THE TRIGGER OF THE FIREARM DOES TWO OR DOUBLE ACTIONS! SA: SINGLE ACTION, PULLING THE HAMMER TO THE REAR AMD THEN PULLING THE TRIGGER THE FIREARM PERFORMS A SINGLE ACTION!
The revolver is interesting in its own right, Evan, but would be orders of magnitude more so if the alleged connection between it and Tom Horn could be confirmed. Every Friday, I look for your video from the museum, and am always pleased when there is one.
Thanks Noah. It's always a golden moment when we can tie a firearm to an individual with some certainty. We have a Remington 1875 .45 Colt revolver with the name "Jas. (James) Ryan" scratched on the back of the grip. He was the first elected sheriff of Weston County Wyoming, c. 1884, and arrested Harry Longabaugh for stealing a horse, saddle, and gun. Longabaugh was sentenced to 18 months in the Sundance Wyoming jail. And that's one version of how the Sundance Kid got his nickname.
Evan, Tom Horn was also in a trial in Reno, NV for robbing a Faro dealer. Perhaps that revolver was payment to an attorney in that trial.
Great video, thanks for sharing
Thanks, Ken.
Another great video 😁👍
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Horn and Mickey Free were tried in a military court i read in Horns book.
I visited the museum at the end of September 2021 specifically to see Tom Horn's guns and was told that all the guns post dated Tom Horn so they weren't on display any more. All the firearms were incorrect in other words.
Unless the firearm was shipped after Horn was hanged, It is as difficult to prove it wasn't his gun as it is to prove it was. Horn did most of his killing with a rifle, first a .45-60 Winchester Model 1876. After the Winchester Model 1894 came out in caliber .30-30 in 1895, he acquired one in that caliber. So the firearms themselves weren't "incorrect," just not available to Horn before 1903.
@@wsmvolunteers8588the model 94 Winchester was custom ordered by Mr. Horn in 30-30 with the button magazine. Winchester provided a factory letter for it so we know that indeed, it did belong to him. The 45-60 76 model Winchester ended up in the hands of John Coble after Mr. Horn’s death and with the Coble family after John Coble committed suicide.
@3:15 is a good starting point. Like too many UA-cam videos that want to ensure enough minutes for an advertisement, we go back to The Dawn of Man for unnecessary “historical perspective “ and minutia
I was wondering were this Museum is? My next trip to WY I will be glad to see it. That said, do you know when they started using center fire cartilages? I have looked it up, but I think they are confusing rimfire with center fire. I thinking it was 1870's but I am not sure
1870’s give or take. One of the original center fire cartridges is the .38 Short Colt.
The Museum is located at 2301 Central Avenue in Cheyenne, Wyoming. I think you are correct that the early cartridges were rimfire. The Smith & Wesson Model 1 was introduced in 1857 and used a .22 caliber rimfire cartridge similar to the modern .22 short. The Henry rifle and the Spencer were both introduced in 1860. Both used a rimfire cartridge. The Henry a .44 Henry and the Spencer a .56-56. Mr. Colt 45 below is correct. The Colt Single Action Army, the Winchester Model 1873, and the Springfield Trapdoor (newly made, not Civil War conversions) all used center fire cartridges. The .38 Short Colt was used in 1851 Colt Navy conversions.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Thanks, I really wanted to see some of the old west artifacts that the Museums has. Like the old guns and maybe Tom Horns Gallows. Being from the east, it was what I really liked about going west. Here we have a lot of CW and AR artifacts.
@@outdoorlife5396 The Laramie County Courthouse has a Tom Horn display with some alleged artifacts on the ground floor of the old section. The Courthouse is downtown in the 300 block of 20th Street.
I'd say .44 S&W American was the first popular centerfire cartridge. What's interesting is the .44 S&W American has external dimensions very similar to the .44 Henry rimfire. There are examples of 1866 Winchester period conversion to .44 S&W.
Maybe the W & four lines is an old cattle brand ?
Good idea. Wyoming brand books for some years are available on line. I have been able to identify a couple brands on guns. I will check this one.
Checked State Archives and online for Wyoming Brand Books. Didn't find the WIIII as a brand.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 well it was worth a try 👍 thank you for letting me know .
@@mausercal65 Of course the brand books only have brands that were registered. Still could be an informal or trail brand that wasn't.
@@evangreen9430 You are right on the money. In the cattle boom era, the Wyoming Stock Growers Association was the shadow government. Their attempts to control, eliminate, or disenfranchise homesteaders and small cattle operations included refusing to issue brands to them. A classic example is Ella Watson, a homesteader on the Sweetwater River. She made several attempts to get a legitimate brand and was denied. In July of 1889, she and her neighbor (possibly husband) were lynched by cattlemen who accused them of rustling. They libeled her as a prostitute. Five cattlemen were arrested for the murders. They posted bond, were never brought to trial or held accountable.
The W may have been the initial of the owners last name and the four bars were possibly the number of people he killed?👍🏻
Certainly possible, but no way to confirm the theory.
Read the book, Life of Tom Horn.
Not the best source really. As Tom’s autobiography, like a lot of the things Tom said, we’re not the most accurate.
Is anyone producing a reproduction of this revolver?
No double action reproductions to my knowledge. There are reproductions of single action top break revolvers such as the Schofield, the .44 American, the .44 Model #3 Russian. They run about $1200 or so.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Can we get enough people interested in buying a DA top-break revolver to get Uberti to produce them? Maybe start a petition? How many purchase orders would be needed to get the ball rolling, do you think?
@@AndrewKarpyszyn Mike Harvey at Cimarron Firearms has taken the lead in developing new reproductions by Uberti. He was instrumental in the recent limited run of Smith & Wesson Number 3 Americans and the New Model Number 3 Frontier, both single action break top revolvers. Harvey was also responsible in the early days of reproductions of encouraging Uberti to make exact replicas. You might contact Cimarron to see if they are interested in getting a double action. I think the market for single action reproductions is driven in large part by Cowboy Action competition shooters. To the best of my knowledge, none of the organizations sponsoring those matches allow double action revolvers except in the pocket pistol side matches. So with that portion of potential purchases removed, I think demand for a DA revolver is limited. Worth a shot, though, to contact Mike.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Awesome! Thanks for the tip!
DA/SA
DA: DOUBLE ACTION THE HAMMER IN THE DOWN POSITION IS PULL/COCKED THE TRIGGER OF THE FIREARM DOES TWO OR DOUBLE ACTIONS!
SA: SINGLE ACTION, PULLING THE HAMMER TO THE REAR AMD THEN PULLING THE TRIGGER THE FIREARM PERFORMS A SINGLE ACTION!
That's correct!