Model Railways / Railroads - Young People & Children
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- The Future Of Model Railways & Railroads - Young People & Playing Trains
In this video we will look into the predicted future of model railways and how if nothing changes it may soon become an extinct hobby.
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I am 14, a few years ago I bought a graham farish starter set. And forgot about it. I wanted to make a model railway but simply couldn't. I am not at an age where it is more practical for me to create a model railway, and with the lockdown it is the ideal time! So, I got out the set and a few bits of track and set up a table in my garden shed (with help from dad!). To begin I would like to ballast and get some static grass down. Once again, like the last time I looked at the price to get some grass down on my board and to ballast my track and said "NO WAY!". There is also a problem with track. I simply can not expand on my layout without spending upwards of £40! (with the cost of points and what not)
So I would like to say thank you, thank you for giving me great tips that have really made me look at the hobby differently. Maybe one day I'll have it completed but for now I'm taking one step at a time, and thinking about the price!
I also agree with everything in this video. In N scale particularly the trains are so expensive! There's no way im expanding my collection any time soon, because to me it feels like a waste!
Thanks a lot for watching and commenting, good luck with your layout and have fun
"Young people aren't interested" Hey there, 15 year old here.
Just like to point out I have dozens of friends who love trains and though we don't model(yet, I'm working on getting space for a layout.) We all have plans and most of our conversations are about steam engines, money is indeed a big issue. I haven't got many myself and I have even less high end models. The most recent one I got was a Hornby J94(£70), most of my engines come second hand but that also means a lot of them are jumpy and often cut out, and the point about running what you want? Yeah that's a big issue for me too. Personally if I was to model I'd model a preservation railway, a fictional one with the engines I want to run. But I couldn't take that to an exhibition if I dreamed about it, no way would the other modellers accept it because it isn't authentic. These are all good points in my opinion and I thank you for bringing them up. apologies if I rambled a bit here, not the best with words. :P
CJthetrainfan im 14 starting my own layout under my bed xd.
All very interesting thanks . You might find an exhibition to show it as there aren't many layouts made by teenagers and many clubs are trying to encourage that, sometimes you just have to ask, it's what we did
The hobby needs more of you.
Sadly its becoming easier to just throw monney at it so im 3d printing figurines soon
I’m a few weeks from being 12 and I’m find model trains incredibly interesting. My dad had an old table and we got some thin wood. Glued it. Placed my track from some train sets I had and I was away. Plus I got my first train set at 3. Probably a bit young but it got me hooked.
if the price increases
the hobby decreases
Dang Itshere I agree with that!
Dang Itshere ha ha
Ik it’s so simple
And that is sad
true unless the bosses from Budget Model Railways
keep showing the best ways to keep it cheap :)
We will do our best
I'm 74, when I went to secondary school, we had a proper workshop with lathes, drills a forge and a teacher who was enthusiastic and showed us how to make things. We also had a woodworking shop, again where we could learn and make things. Schools today have plastic scissors and paper, so it's little wonder that kids today have no aptitude.
You are absolutely right in all that you say and I congratulate you on saying it.
Railwayman John I’m sorry but your statement proclaiming that schools don’t have equipment such as lathes etc is not entirely accurate. I was on a visit recently and I can assure you that the school was very well equipped with all sorts of machinery and tools including lathes! Now I am not saying that all schools are in the same boat because I’ve only been to one recently but where do you get your info from? Indeed from the conversation I had with the teacher there is a reasonably high uptake in design and engineering in the school.
I think you will find that school in the smallest minority. Most have given up through complicated health and safety issues and insurance costs. We do live in the age of "if my child gets hurt I will sue you for everything I can" attitude.
Dougs school is pretty well equipped. It's worth remembering that the big thing in education now is STEM science, technology, engineering and maths so there has been a big change in the last few years. Anyone involved in working with young people schools, youth groups, scouts etc is getting very STEM involved so times are changing.
My secondary was well endowed workshop wise
I've been playing with my toy trains since I was 6 yrs old, and I've been using the same old imperfect models running on a layout built from second hand track, some of my loco's were second or third hand back in the 60's when my dear old Dad got me started, my loco's are not perfect my layout is not perfect, I don't model a certain era, or region, I just run my not so perfect trains the way I want to run them, they are mine have been mine in lot of cases since 1966, the point is they run, if they break I can fix them, and they will still be running long after the current over priced low quality models we get now have been long assigned to the scrap bin. thanks for a great video, I fully agree, regards ,Mark
Sounds great and a lot of fun, thanks for your support
Totaly agree its much cheaper to mend them now
Mark Filcher - with you Totally ! 'Especially like how you call it "Playing" with your trains ~ Can We All Just RELAX and say we Play with our marvelous little trains ⁉
I think for those who spend a fortune on model railways, part of the justification, is to say they are model collectors, I on the other hand don't spend hundreds on a loco, as I have always preferred older examples I feel completely as ease saying I play with toy trains, after all that is what they are, cheers Mark
Mark F - 👍 Once Again 👍 Let's not get All Bent Out of Shape if we call them Toys - - -
'Know one fellow who's built an Empire strictly of Re-sale shop pieces & hand-me-downs 🚂 and he has a ball !
I am with you 100%. Because of you, Mike and Doug, we have gotten back into Model Railways. I would even be tempted to dare some modelers to create the most outrageous layout they can build. Mix locomotive and rolling stock according to what you like. It is YOUR railway--not that of an elitist. Getting started? Put on your model anything you can cobble together. The end is not the goal; the goal is playing with trains. Maybe there should even be a contest to see who can make the craziest layout for the least amount of money. Would that sound good to anyone? Have fun and get started!
A great idea, thanks as always for your support
I'm currently repainting and refurbishing my Class 142 Pacer into an Australian livery where I live just to see how it looks :)
The club I used to be in was not ANY era, so it was nothing to see my NSW intercity alongside American or British Locos, we didnt care, we were enjoying trains running
That's what it's all about
I painted a limo HO class 33 into GWR choc and cream with a white roof to match some Lima coaches, like you just to see how it would look
I was young once - first train set was my Brother’s HORNBY Dublo in the 50s and that was it. Hooked. My first set came in 1967 and the interest has been there ever since, learning all the way and growing with it. That’s where the majority the first class exhibition layouts were born, in the mind of what we couldn’t afford, when we were young. You are to be congratulated on your enthusiasm and what you do is right for you. I have a “train set” as well, an MPD and one exhibition layout - available to play in whatever era/genre I like. We don’t have to have one layout. Diorama, shunting layout, train set in a cardboard box. The “perfectionists” are not Modellers but “wanters “. They want, HORNBY make it. There’s Thomas, Percy and everything still available for kids. Interest is nurtured as was mine. Best wishes.
Mike as usual you are talking absolute COMMON SENSE. One of the guys at our MRC in Blackpool has just built an Inglenook layout in 4 weeks and that includes making his own points, it looks fantastic but he freely admits it was put together in as short a time as possible. It is approx 41" x 18" and he has put grass down and ballast down. Using 8 wagons for shunting it has approx 3600 permutations of sorting the wagons, surely this would be an ideal introduction to model railways for children and a way to keep there interest in solving the various puzzles and running a model train. As always more power to your elbow and please don't let the detractors get you down as some people can only see a glass half empty.
Thanks again for another superb bit of sense Frank.
Excellent points well made, (and I don't mean Peco streamline :) ) My big 'hobby' is as a small time rock musician - although I look at it as a very badly paid part time job. I think this whole drive for perfection in the model railway community, is a bit like holding up yer Iron Maidens and Avenged Sevenfolds of this world as the standard, then discourging kids from playing guitar cos they have not got private jets, 30 artics of gear and a 70 man road crew. Everyone has to start somewhere, and even the U2s and Metallicas of this world had to start out with cheap gear, second hand instruments and play to three blokes a dog in a spit and saw dust local pub. Even the best modellers, railway or what ever had to start out with your basic trainset or a simple Airfix Spitfire kit, they didn't decide to be a railway modeller and the next day build the models in the Pendon museum, any more than I learnt my first three chords and walked out at Wembley then next day.
Rock music is pretty good at encourging youth into music, many local venues have special showcase events for new young talent, local promotors will put young bands on as support to older and more established acts, and I also present a weekly rock, metal punk show on a local radio station where we are encouraged to support and give exposure to young bands. Why? simply because in music old rockers don't live forever and if the music is to survive then young blood must be brought through to be the next generations inspiration, other wise there will really be a day that the music dies.
Same should go for railway modelling, if you want to see wonderful perfect, ultra realistic layouts in 20, 30, 40 years time then you MUST get the kids involved NOW so they get the model train bug and start to develop their knowledge and skills. To do this all MRCs must have youth sections building and running their own layouts, the industry must address the price issue and release at least some models at pocket money prices, and the model railway press must do more to engage the young modeller. Railway Modeller in the 70s and 80s used to have regular 'Junior Modeller' articles, where the work of under 18 year olds was showcased, and yes a lot of the layouts featured were in the 'trainset plus' catagory, but it was at least showing these young folks efforts along side the best of the day and encouraging their involvement in the hobby. I can also rember one magazine (cant recall which) had a hints and tips section which included some great ideas like making model sacks from drinking straws and making loco coal for tenders and bunkers by gluing course beach sand, complete with small shell fragments, over the moulded coal load and painting it black. (All my locos had / have the latter treatment and the results do look very good.) Maybe all the modern model railway press should consider giving over a few pages to these topics, it would at least be a start.
Finally its up to us, the modellers (and musicians) to get the young 'uns involved and assure a future for the activities we love for generations to come.
Keep up the good work
Jon
PS - to the fuddy duddies who don't to watch 'people playing with trainsets', don't watch, go watch videos of perfection, there are plenty out there, and leave the grass roots of the hobby alone.
Love the last comment. Like you say Iron Maiden ( without whom I couldn't have got by for the last 30 years) didn't start by walking out onto Wembley, it's a great analogy
As a disabled veteran who only got into model trains 5 years ago at the age of 76, I agree with all that has been said so far. I joined the local club (they were meeting in Nursing home I was in). We (club) have found that most clubs will not let younger people join their club. We were that way until recently. After letting young visiters run our DCC trains (so far as young as three), We change, so now young people can join the club. So far two new members.
This also has the added benefit of getting a parent to join. It has been a win/win for the club & model railroading in general. Thank God I stumbled onto your channel. At $80.00 a month allowance it is way to expensive, That is why your channel is so valuable to me. Keep it up. Thanks
Thank you sir, and full credit to your club. Young people are great if they are given a chance
I have to admit that im no youngster, 53 currently. Couple of years ago i joined a local club, everyone was 10 plus years older but i was looked at as the kid and made unwelcome, needless to say i only went once and gave up. I still attend their annual show and not one of them acknowledges me and i know they know who i am. If anyone suffered from being elitist it was this lot.
Sadly yours is not the first time we have heard this
Me too with this , as I ve tried to join 2 clubs over the years and wasn't made very welcome , must say One guy and his son at the last one I tried were ok and asked me if I wanted to run my lima GWR pannier tank on their layout that I had brought along . and I ran it with some French coaches they had if I remember, and the comments I got from the other members at this club that you arnt allowed to run a GWR loco with French trains, I thought this was a hobby and ment to be Fun? So didn't go back, good on some clubs that are welcoming young and new people in to this great hobby and making it about fun and not rivet counting .
I'm eleven, and it's only now that I'm only allowed to join my local MRC. Now, though, Corona's made it pointless.
Excellent commentary, I agree totally. When I was going up in the 70s, my toy of choice was Legos. One had only their imagination to hold them back to building anything, we built and played for hours. That is one reason I got into model railroading, you can build a layout in any way you desire. There was not a right or wrong way, only the FUN way. Look at Lego today, they almost died in the early 2000s, computers were the dominate toy of choice. So Lego reinvented its self, by bringing in a computer/electronics flavor into their toys. Now Lego is a popularity is growing toy for the young minds. Model railroad manufacturers need to take a look at what Lego did and apply new ways to attract the younger generation into the hobby. Incorporate block buster movie themes or highly rated tv shows. Include model buildings in a starter set for instance. Lionel 3 rail O Gauge in the US has a simple remote control for their Lion Chief series that is good start to making railroading simple to hook up and have fun. We older folks will still be the best mentors to the hobby by sharing our skills and enjoyment with the younger generations. With all of us pitching in, we can continue to enjoy this fantastic hobby of model railroading for generations to come. The world never be without trains so lets keep the modeling alive. Skol! Ron//
Very well said, thanks
I completely agree with you! I'm nearly 14 and I have an N gauge exhibition layout that I've developed over 4 years, it doesn't have to all be done in one go! As long as the trains run, that's all that matters. And surprisingly, that's the attitude of my club, the average age of whom must be about 45-50. It's amazing that the older generation think they'll live forever and that their skills won't die out, but if they want to be unsociable to the younger generation their skills will die out. This is the attitude of many 'high-end' layouts such as Gresley Beat or most finescale layouts, but people who, for example, run and build for Pendon, understand they need to pass on these skills or they WILL die out. People need to start understanding this.
Thanks, good points
This is True! Even here in the US things have gone out of control! I modeled with my father as a teen...life gets in the way and I did not have the time to continue with the hobby. Now..turning 50 in a few days I have spent about 12 months watching U tube videos on the subject, how too-s, getting Ideas, and thinking of revising the 8ftx5ft layout my father and I created. It is AMAZING how expensive this hobby has become! I have been gob smacked by the price of things! Even just DC is a bit ridiculous in engine costs. I have a vast collection of 1970 and 1980 produced engines and rolling stock, as well as scenery..so I have the basic supplies, BUT to go for the Tech. aspect of the hobby - DCC- Its going to be a fortune! This is an Issue, its not going to stop me from returning to this fun hobby, but it is going to hinder me with my operations because I will not be going to DCC for the layout. I agree that the possible "NEW" modeler's are definitely "put off" by the cost of things, the "Push" for being perfect in your operations, scenery and Etc. Cheers to your video - I agree with you-it is time for QUALITY model Railroad products at an affordable and ATTAINABLE Price point! Thanks for what your doing for Our Hobby! J. Ritter- Pittsburgh, PA,USA.
When I was a kid, my dad bought me a postage stamp/minitrix set for Christmas, I loved it, (still have some of it) I wanted to expand it, but my mom said, " that stuff costs way too much", she was right, as always.
In my 30's I gave it another try, still too expensive and not enough time. I'm nearly 60 now, and I have more money and more time, but I don't want to waste any of either.
With your channel, and like-minded others, I'm finding ways to make my new layout very nice without having my wife leave me, thank you for that,I hate doing laundry.
I hope the higher-ups take notice of this.
Well done, keep up the good work and damn the prototypes!
Keeping the model railways cheap to avoid an expensive divorce sounds familiar! Good luck with the layout, have fun with it and don't worry about counting the rivets
Just received an email with this video. I am in my 40's & have been modelling on & off since I was young. My son is 10 & between us, we are developing a loft layout. He thoroughly enjoys the modelling, but is pleased Dad is funding the project! What we find off putting is at the model rail events. The older generation tend to lean against the barriers & seem to be obvious to the smaller people preventing them from viewing the exhibits.
So true, we were at one and a large man who was operating the layout from the front effectively blocked 50% of it! Good luck with the layout, send us some pics if you like to BMRNewsletter@gmail.com
Will send pictures in due course!
Your comment about railway magazines and 'dream layouts' really rang true with me. As amazing as someone's 'layout of a lifetime' that takes up an entire loft or spare room is, or some epic amazing layout built by an entire club that takes up a huge hall, that does nothing for me. Im starting out building an N gauge layout, I have some disposable income but not much, Im 25 and still living at home, and I dont have much space spare. Id LOVE to see some smaller layouts in magazines, ones built by regular people, and tbf Model Rail does a decent job at featuring those kinds of layouts a bit more. The comparison with Games Workshop is genius.
Many thanks for your comments and support. It's about having fun or should be, the 'hobby ' seems to have lost site of this and only values high spend and long builds
You make some very good points. I was a member of my local model railroad club. Most of our members were 60 years old or older. They had a rather large layout built entirely of second hand parts. It ran really poorly. They never wanted to fix it. In the end they actually voted to exclude anyone from membership under the age of 40. I quit the club after that vote. I went back for a visit recently and they have 3 members left in the club. They layout was dismantled and they were getting ready to lock up the layout room for good. They did this to themselves. Anyway, all hobbies are having trouble attracting young people. I wish the best of luck to you.
What a sad but illuminating story, imagine taking a vote to exclude people! Sadly it illustrates my views only too clearly , thanks for sharing
Simply Brilliant !!!! Very best of luck with your mission to bring more young people into this wonderful hobby. All the very best from the Pine Tree Junction family!
Thanks for your support and encouragement
I think the remedy to what you describe is "the three foot rule." When we operate our trains, we don't have our heads down on the track and a magnifying glass in hand. We're usually standing a little distance away, and a level of detail that looks good at that distance is satisfying. The high-end equipment you describe is an impressive example of the jeweler's art, but it quadruples the cost of the equipment for something you'll only notice under extraordinary circumstances. I once saw a review of a model locomotive with the exhaust nozzles in the smokebox modeled. In the full-size world, I've never seen an exhaust nozzle with the smokebox door closed, because it's dark in a smokebox, and when the engine is hot, it's not pleasant leaning over a smokestack peering down it.
With few manufacturers of mid-range equipment left, a person who wants affordable, but good enough, equipment can only get it used, but that requires a kind of market savvy the beginner might lack, too. I don't know how to remedy this in the marketplace, but I think that the manufacturers and publishers that have gone after the high money market are inadvertently starving their future. Today's beginner might someday buy high-end stuff when he's learned enough to know what he wants, but how do you get in the door without committing your life-savings to something you might later find was not what you would ultimately pursue?
Extremely well put thank you. I will remember the three foot rule I think it's spot on thanks
I'm very impressed by your accomplishments and the fact You're getting back to the basics on how this hobby got it's start. I model in N Scale at 61 years old. I still have the Loco from the first set I purchased. Actually traded in a slot car set for the train set. Only because of space limitations.
I have learned so much from this hobby from landscaping to electrical work to building and painting to even troubleshooting problems around the house. I have been asked how much schooling it took to be able to problem solving or figuring out how to repair, design, relocate electrical issues, etc.....
I pulled weeds and discovered trees from the roots. Trimmed bushes and discovered leaves to complete the tree's. Improved my construction possibilities by building and demo of several layouts.
To some it all up, this hobby has endless opportunities and possibilities for the future of our Youths and Our own growth throughout our community's and the rest of our Silver Years . Not to mention the fact of socializing in the mist of a bad virus.
I just wanted to thank you for all your hard work and dedication to teaching our Youths just some of the possibilities of rolling up their sleeves, putting on their thinking caps and getting their hands dirty.
I'll keep watching and sharing you're videos.
Keep Up the wonderful work you do.
Bruce Ames of St. Paul, Minnesota
On the subject of price, I recently bought the Hornby Class 800 in GWR Green from Hattons. It was £320, and although I am impressed by it, I do not think it was worth this, and this was with a £60 discount from Hornby's own price! If it was more reasonably priced, say £200-250, I would have bought multiple, and run them in multiple as a 10-car set, as per the prototype after renumbering it. I also looked at BR Snowploughs on Hattons, and after careful consideration, I decided to scratch-build one, partially inspired by you, out of a spare bogie I had lying around and plasticard. It is now only waiting for the transfers, which is the only thing I have bought new for it, and then it will be finished. In other words, it cost me under £10 in total. We need to keep pushing for new people to come into the hobby, and the only way we can do this is by people like you sharing their work, or the manufacturers putting their prices down. Like I said earlier, I would happily have paid for more of the Class 800's if the price wasn't so high, but alas, the manufacturers do not see this and my local club is only just holding their head above water, meaning we have had to go for a much more local show, with layouts only from the local area (the Isle of Wight - the whole reason getting layouts over is expensive is the ferry price), added to which we are currently moving from our old premises to the new one. This also means storage of one layout, complete destruction of another and one actually coming into my custodianship as we do not have the space at the new place. I am also planning my own OO gauge layout, and I have looked at the track new (I never trust old or secondhand track) and it will cost me over £125! (although this is in code 75 as I want it to look as realistic as possible - and it's only a very small layout as well!) We need to go back to a time when locomotives were produced as cheaply as possible and without corporate greed - we need Tri-ang or Lima back - properly this time.
I've been interested in Modeling for years just didn't have the space. I'm back into it now and I still remember hearing about a cheap option for ballast you may try. Kitty litter sifted through a flour sifter! This is something I'm having my 10 year old daughter do while I work on another part of the layout. You can use the larger pieces on other parts of the layout too and it's cheap!
I’m using ballast sheet which I intend to reuse over time
Main barrier to a lot of hobbies is that when a young person first joins, a lot of older people are certain that they know how to do it and are so certain that there is no room for any young person to be creative or try anything new. When all the rules have been written by someone you’ve never met and cannot influence, the hobby quickly turns into a school-like experience that few people would do for fun! One of the coolest things about computer games like Minecraft is that adults often don’t understand them, so they have no choice but to leave you alone and actually let you be creative!
One of the things that drew me into model railways is that Dad involved me in and taught me how to do every step he could (empowering me to do stuff for myself, as well as creating a great bonding experience).
You've hit the nail on the head there.
I remember when I was a kid, my Dad was always going to a specific model railroad shop and I distinctly remember a conversation between the shop owner and my Dad about how the hobby was dying out. Young people simply weren't interested according to the two of them: "young boys were simply more interested in computer games and technology over modelling."
Notice I quoted "young boys"? That's because as a kid, I was the only girl to venture into that shop and actually genuinely liked looking at what was there - when I got to be a teenager, even I was more interested in Mario and Sonic than modelling. It wasn't that it didn't appeal to me - it was the daunting thoughts of "I couldn't ever hope to do anything like that" and the big one "I could never afford to do any of that myself."
I would agree even down here in Australia, the cost of simply getting started and constructing a layout of your own is completely through the roof. I'm now interested in building a model carnival with a train running around it... I've blown through over 7 grand AUD in just a few months just buying the models of the carnival rides... added pressure for me is now that my Dad has found out, he's in a hurry to get it all up and running. I've had to tell him repeatedly just in the last week to slow down because I DON'T have the money! It will be A FEW YEARS minimum before I can move any further with what I want to do.
Life is full of priorities and honestly, hobby costs come in at the very bottom of any budget. Even young people know that. If you want to attract people into any hobby - you've got to make it not only fun but viability affordable at the same time. Stop wanting it all NOW and telling suppliers to lower their greedy profit margins and you'll see a massive increase of interest from people of all ages.
I grew up believing modelling was a man's hobby - not something women could be interested in... I've secretly wanted to do something for ages and have now discovered that: 1) It's not just a man's only hobby, & 2) You don't have to interested in the trains themselves to take up the hobby. There's endless possibilities for just building scenes and towns/cities with just a lone railway line.
Good for you
Another video full of facts and information. Hopefully the popularity will indeed grab the attention of those in the suits and offices.
The stereotype that young people aren't into it is a load of chaff. A lot of young people are into it - they just can't afford or even access it. You always get kids watching these model railway videos - SamsTrains' and IC82's channels are very popular and FULL of kids and yet most of them don't even have a basic train set or a mere locomotive because they just can't afford it, and it's not like they can go to a local shop and buy one because even if they had the money, most high street stores don't stock this stuff. Thanks for cancelling those concessions, Hornby.
You've said in this video what I have thought all along. The hobby has become too exclusive, too premium and too high end. You can't operate on a budget or without unrealistic expectations without being limited to used goods, and without being shunned or insulted by other guys who demand top end products and think your budget choices are horrendous. On another youtuber's review of Hornby's ex-Lima class 66, I was engaged in a bit of a confrontation in the comments section by one of these people. The fellow insisted that the model was crap, and that you're a d*ck if you think it's acceptable having one running around your layout. He said all this because the loco had one powered bogie, basic detail and lacked LEDs...How selfish and close minded does one have to be to act in such a manner towards a product that quite clearly isn't made for their demographic and can be easily avoided?
He also called the product a toy, which I found hilarious. Because let's be honest here folks - they're all toys, And calling them models is like how other hobbyists who say their dolls or statues are actually action figures - this is coming from someone who's into both of these hobbies! No amount of weathering, DCC sound or photo etched detail will change the fact that when you're watching that thing trundle around the track, you're playing trains. Overly enhanced, overpriced toy trains. They're toys, and always have been since the day Frank Hornby introduced his first toy trains. I find this to be one of the main marketing problems - they're marketed as "adult collectables", and you won't find any in your local Smyths Toys Superstore or whatever. Hell, high street stores that do stock model railway goods have a mere couple of Hornby sets, and it's not like you can go for a walk to the ever more mythical local model shop either.
All this said of course premium offerings shouldn't be shunned either. They're beautiful little things. But the lack of attention to the opposite customer, as well availability and price is sickening, even more so when these business choices are defended by the fractionate wealthy consumer. Even if I had the wealth for High end goods, I'd avoid paying the prices of today. Retailers have proven these prices aren't needed - I got Hornby stuff HALF PRICE from Hawkin's Bazaar a couple of years ago and they STILL made a profit to split with Hornby!
Then there's the essence of the hobby. The freedom, the imagination...the idea that you run whatever trains you want...it's all gone. You need to plan, it's needs to be accurate, you need to make it to exhibition standard - Except you don't. The whole reason this hobby became much loved is that with the flick of a switch and knob you could make a tiny, plastic, electric powered toy train move at your choice of speed and direction. You were the driver, the fireman, the station master...the Fat Controller if you will! This fun is all gone. Now it's all DCC, tortoise slow running and has strict guidelines, and as you say in the video, this is all enforced by not only the manufacturers but also the model railway media.
It's horrifying to see how this hobby becomes more and more alienated. I swear, almost every month it gets worse and worse, more and more expensive and the elitist portion of the hobby's populous becomes ever more cancerous. There's just no respect. These kinds of videos shouldn't have to exist in this day and age of acceptance and mass production. Good grief...
Thank you so much for your comment, you are totally right . As you say they are all TOY trains whatever way you look at them, it should be about having fun not snobbery. Thanks again
Have followed your vids from the start and have used some of your ideas on my layouts the biggest thing I do regarding water is I use cheap gloss varnish and did a little test with friends on fb asking them which one was scenic water or varnish and out of the 35 I asked 30 said the varnish was scenic water product so keep up the excellent work as I for one will continue to follow
By the late 1970s and early 1980s, children were captivated by science fiction like Star Wars, Battestar Galactica and the first six Star Trek movies as well as modern technology like video games. Even though I have played computerised electronic games as a kid and a teenager, I still had my passion for model railways. In fact, I still enjoy model railways more than video games as a young adult.
Take into account the opinions and understanding viewpoints of children, teenagers and young adults; for instance, a six year old, a sixteen year old and a twenty-six year old all have their own views and such on a certain hobby they love and enjoy.
We had catapults, tinplate toy figures and Meccano in the 20s and 30s, model trains and Airfix kits in the 40s and 50s, poseable action figures, slot cars and Lego in the 60s and 70s, videogames and digital toys in the 80s and 90s, but by the new millennium-onward, we had pretty much most of the aforementioned things and still do. What makes a hobby great is the everlasting charm and appeal that they still have in them, but in this day and age, not all children want to do what the parents have been doing and yeah, they may not always like the same things, but they know exactly what they like and they'll always love it.
I mean, we all enjoy certain things in life - for instance; I enjoy the Star Wars prequel trilogy as much as the classic and sequel trilogies, though some may not like the Star Wars prequels or the sequels as much as the classic trilogy; I dislike Capture the Flag, but some probably like Capture the Flag. We may not always agree on the same things because everyone has their own opinion on things and that's something we should all respect, really.
I apologise for my long comment - I do not intend to make it longer than one paragraph as I have so much to talk about. I'm just glad to share my thoughts and opinions on how we look at such hobbies (mainly this one) and our deep appreciation for them. And two years on after this video was uploaded, kids are starting to enjoy this hobby more and more often if you have kept up with Hornby's competitions on their social network sites and blogs. Perhaps the lockdown brought us a blessing in disguise...
As a 69 year old, nearly retired person , I have very little if any at all savings. I'm still working to pay off my mortgage and my wife is still working. I have been collecting mainly GWR engines and rolling stock for the past 5 or 10 years now and hope to lay my first piece of track soon, hopefully before I kick the bucket. I have mainly bought my locos, like you, off ebay but most of my rolling stock is made up of kits, which I also enjoy assembling. (Airfix bug caught when I was 8). I have seen a lot of your videos and particularly enjoyed the content showing how to make buildings out of card. I have known about using Kelloggs boxes for years but have never really tried to make a building from scratch. I would probably enjoy that more than running the railway. I find your videos very enjoyable and informative: also inspirational in a lot of respects. Keep up the good work and I look forward to your next video.
Hi Kevin, thanks for watching and commenting. I have realised I like making the layouts as much as running stuff too! Sadly with most retired people now going to be very short of income compared to the past, the manufacturers are chasing a rapidly declining market. I have also recently discovered the pleasure of wagon kits and the dapol buildings. Good luck with the layout. Mike
100% agree with all of your statement here.
The hobby is quickly being killed off due to to ever increasing costs that the younger generation just cannot afford to sustain. The likes of yourself do help greatly to show simple modelling can be done on a budget but still prices continue to rise and only the fortune people are beginning to be able to afford.
Speculate to accumulate is no longer a key feature when it comes to Model railway products.
Regards Jason.
As a teen modelist my self. The biggist issue is price
Agreed, take a look at our other video on model railway prices
I quite agree, prices of new models are prohibitive. who can afford over £ 300 for a dmu. I am retired but i will not play silly prices, because that is what they are. I have just made my first layout at the age of 77. Nothing fancy, no fancy wiring, just one pair of wires into the track, only one train at a time, run what you like, great fun.
That sounds exactly like our kind of layout, simple and lots of fun
@@mauricehooker2615 I plan to use only a gaugemaster combi. But have a station with a crossing loop and siding in my room sized 6x4 in oo
Im 16 and ive been in to railways since i was about 3 got my first set christmas 2007 flying scotstman and a coal train now ive got over 140 loco some new but most second hand in many sizes its somthing that i love doing and not many teens like me are into it as they think is done by old guys who have to get it perfect THIS IS NOT TRUE are model railway club dont care about what you run or what you modle and we do it as cheep as we can E.G. runing old locos that have had parts changed to make them run better some run on radio controled some locos we make from scratch we like odd layouts and we dont do it because we want to make the most real layout we do it because it is fun and you make some great friends.
Keep it up guys love what you do.
Here here! Me and him indoors have spent just about 2 years creating our model layout of our own region , Grimshalt (name's Grimshaw cool eh!?) We do have to spend a bit on rolling stock but maybe 60%+ is scratch built from IKEA stirrers cardboard packaging and the weirdest of bits and bobs imaginable! It's just so exciting to imagine a way to create from essentially chuckouts and offcuts. I love your VT s and soak up all the ideas and tips like a sponge. Really appreciate your championing accessibility for new generation.imagination is vastly underused and underrated nowadays.
What a lovely comment, thanks
You are absolutely Brilliant!! And I only found you tonight by ACCIDENT!
I have been a Model Railroader, in the United States, since 1974. I've always been passionate about it, but lately I've been drifting more towards my other Hobby RC Crawler Trucks. It's CHEAPER now, and 25 Years ago, it was the opposite.
When I started, I thought I'd start big.... No Train Set. I bought 6 Locomotives, 20 Cars (Carriages), 36 feet of Flextrack and 10 Turnouts (Points). In 1974, it all cost me a whopping $140!!! 😱 For ALL of that! I STILL have some of it today.
Even with Decades of experience, I still don't consider myself what you refer to as "The Elite". Here in the States, we call them "Rivet Counters". Everything not only HAS to be Perfect, but every tiny detail HAS to be correct. One Gent I was on a Forum with, Modelled the Santa Fe Railway in Williams, Arizona, April 17th, 1956, IN THE MORNING!!!! He's not an exception.
I invented my own Railway, the Pacific Belt RR. My Railroad, my rules, my decisions. I only chose 1978, because I wanted to at least keep the equipment relevant.
Due to unforeseen circumstances, I'm now properly Poor.
Being honest, barely any of your content would be relevant to anything I'm doing. However, I like the way you think! I believe I'll find quite a bit of useful information for saving money. Right now, that means more to me than anything!
I want to get back into it, you may have the tools to help me. Thank You!
That's why I subscribed.
You sound like our kind of model railroader. I heard of a river counter who changed all the number plates on his cars to reflect the right area and date for his layout. They are 1mm by 4mm and can barely been seen with the naked eye! Every hobby seems to have got cheaper except model railways, it doesn't help when the press say that £190 fir a loco is cheap! Thanks for subscribing and supporting
£190 ($225) is certainly NOT Cheap!! People have been getting fed much more Hype, than Fact. That's a problem all in it's self! 😫
I believe it's long over due for a Model Railroading Reniassance!
Long live the revolution!
You're right, it all about the high- end "perfection" layouts in these magazines. Younger people just can't afford to build these types of layout and don't know everything or the skills to do it. At 15yrs old myself, I know how few younger people are into the hobby. I don't know anyone else of my age who is. Thanks to your video's I have been able to build a exhibition layout within a small budget.
Thanks for the support, can you send us some pics of your layout, well done
With locos I want run most are incredibly expensive. Meaning I have to buy them as cheap as possible and hope that I can fix them. I managed to pick up a 91 and DVT for about £40 that apparently was a “non-runner” and managed to force it back to life. The reason I do model railways is for this reason.
Well done good result
Good work. Tried to do exactly the same thing with an A4 class loco before Christmas. It was pretty much a right off but managed to rebuild and fix it... for a total of £85!!!!! Oh well... we live and learn!
But you keep the good work going and keep the second handers running.
Your comments are spot on. I was in the hobby trade in both the US and UK late 80’s early 90’s and then nothing for 25 years due to family, work, mortgage career etc. I now have a healthy budget and a lot of time so kicked off an N scale American outline layout in my garage which you can see on my channel but I’ve been utterly shocked at the cost of everything and basically take the view the industry is in danger of imploding within 10 years if it keeps going in the same direction. According to the chap I purchase a lot of my equipment from, I’m just about his youngest customer, I’m 48 and lucky enough to afford my hobby now but most families can’t for all the same reasons I couldn’t but now it’s worse in that the unit costs of equipment are far higher (£40 for an N scale station which is just a box of injection mounded plastic) even adjusting for inflation and only available in limited numbers as you’ve pointed out. Completely ridiculous, I hope the big manufacturers of N and HO/OO take note before it’s too late.
I came back to the hobby just a few months ago. Thirty years ago I joined a club, only to be criticized for "playing trains" by a rivet counter, complete with railwayman's uniform. He spent several years scratch building a single-wheeler, thirty wagons with full load of real coal and a brake van, all connected by three-link chains. It took him an hour to set it up and then it wouldn't move, the motor wasn't powerful enough. The members of the club spent years building a massive exhibition layout, pre-dcc, with incredibly complicated wiring. It never ran well - just too complicated. I love the realistic sounds of the latest locos, but not at the exorbitant prices. So I play trains. I'm having immense fun with the latest chinese made Hornby 0-4-0s non-prototypical rolling stock and I don't care what goes with what, if I like it, it runs on my layout. I'm 73, I'm dead chuffed that I can still make locos run nicely with a bit of tweaking and can still make model buildings and scenery. The kids don't know what they're missing. IT'S UP TO US TO SHOW THEM!
All so true, however they wrap it up its all just playing with trains , whatever they say, it doesn't matter how much it cost or how long it took, what matters is having fun! The 0-4-0` s are great I have far to many but they are great, I have one that runs better than the £55 loco I bought new. In fact we will be reviewing one in a video tomorrow. Thanks for watching and commenting, keep having fun and take care
Great video! Just want to say thanks. It has really opened my eyes. I love this hobby, but when I try to do scenery etc I also feel why am I doing this, because it does not look perfect like in the magazine. But now this has made me realise it does not have to be perfect. It has made me see that whatever we model we must be proud of it. It does not have to be perfect. The reason I came into the hobby was as you said some track and trains running. And thats how it should start out. Awesome video, and thank you for showing me that anything I model is personal and something I can be proud of. Keep up the good vids. Cheers!
Once again a thought provoking video. Each to their own in terms of what floats your boat to model, how accuratly and perfectly, and how much you can afford to spend on it. Most people own a car, some buy second hand run-arounds, and try to maintain them via DIY. Others buy new and that can range from low end brands to very high range makes and models. Which is right or wrong, neither. Choice is the key to pretty much everything in life. But when not comes to a hobby you have to grab the attention of the youth today to maybe become the high end modeller of tomorrow. So encouragement, keeping it simple and affordable ( at least to start with ) and getting pleasure from the hobby is what the about. How the big companies can be encouraged to help I am not sure, save for trying to introduce budget versions of some basic locos and carragies etc. Maybe they need to have web sites and UA-cam channels with tutorials like yours showing how you can get similar effects on a budget. In the meantime keep up the great work championing the cause and having fun yourselves along the way.
I agree 100% with all you say. I run what I like and don't give a damn what "perfectionists" like Tony Wright think.
The recent "Model Railway Challenge" programs have generated a lot of interest in the hobby, but I think your comment "I can't do that" applies here. There were so many skills on show, but young people starting out probably have none of them at first.
Bob Symes made a few TV programs some years ago showing how to build a Model Railway from scratch, but they were heavily edited and didn't go into enough detail. There is certainly a case for a new series, probably on an obscure SKY channel, showing how to do it properly whilst doing what you're doing and cutting costs wherever possible. Thank you for your videos and passion; best wishes to you and your son.
Thanks for your kind comment and support. I agree, its the everything must be done correctly to a high standard, preferably having spent as much money as possible, attitude that probably discourages most people. Glad to do our bit to push back!
Spot on. This hobby can be crazy expensive if you let it. Here in the States, small, manageable and affordable layouts are overlooked in the media; the model press considers a bedroom size layout a small layout. When I first started out in the 70's, anything introduced by a manufacturer could still be picked up new 6 months to a year later, giving a young person time to save up to buy the moderately priced stock. Now, as you noted, the prices are grotesque and the stock is sold out before it hits the market. I buy the majority of my items on the second hand market, going to shows looking through boxes under the table on a bargain hunt or finding old buildings to restore or upgrade. I do a lot of modular modeling with T-Trak, a forum based on bases that are a square-foot. Anyone from a youth to a senior citizen can enjoy inexpensively and get the benefit of socializing when displaying. I often take an unfinished piece along in case someone says "oh, I couldn't do that" and I'll have them sit for a few minutes and let them put down some scenery or show them how to weather a building and have a go.
All very good points, T trak sounds a great idea, well done for doing your bit to promote the hobby
As a fan from the beginning of this channel, it’s great to see how the subscribers have come and the truth is exactly as you described it. This hobby has brought my daughters and myself even closer as we share something we have our strengths in (eldest is brilliant at art and painting and the youngest loves getting to control the layout and doing the bigger bits of painting). Cost has been a huge put off and lack of hobby shops in our area in New Zealand has made it hard but the tips in these videos are brilliant to give us our own ability to grow further. There has been an insurgence of budget model railway groups on Facebook as it proves that people want to join the hobby in an affordable manner and the comment everyone makes is that the cost of locos and supplies are horrific.
Thank you for the work you both do, the haters will always hate hate hate as they will in anything in life. But secretly they can’t deny they love the feeling of seeing their little loco run round the track and go choo Choo in their heads as we all do ;)
Hi Scotty, as I pointed out to one negative comment , it's all playing trains at the end of the day! So great to hear your daughters are so involved, model railways has given me and Doug something to share without which at his age we probably wouldn't have much in common. Even when we fall out ( he's 14 and thinks he knows it all where's I'm 54 and know I'm right lol) at least we are still communicating! He came up with a great idea yesterday which solved a massive problem with my layout though. Continue to enjoy and glad we could help
It is good the companies should sit up and look at the price of everything track and signals included
I'm a young person (16) and I agree that the main factor stopping me from properly getting into model railways is absolutely the cost. I do odd jobs around the house and neighbourhood, and am lucky to get £10 per week, so at best it takes several months to afford a new loco/rail kit. Bring the cost down, even if operating at a loss some (not all) of the time, and the number of people you bring into the hobby is going to easily offset that initial loss through long-term investment.
I absolutely could not agree more than that. My mum lost her job due to brexit so I don't ern anything so it's hard for me but keep up the good work
I absolutely agree with everything you have said in this, and your previous video.
I am just getting into the hobby aged 42, mainly because my son, aged 7, is now interested. For the last few weeks, we've been running a £15 second hand tank, on a small circle of track comprising some I had at his age, and a few bits we bought from a model shop. We've got a £10 second hand DC controller, and a few coaches and trucks from my train set. the track is nailed down to a bit of old ply, which we plonk on the dining table when mum's out!
Our scenery currently consists of a few bits made of cereal boxes and masking tape, decorated in felt tip pen.
But do you know what? He plays with it for hours. Put the coaches in that siding, get the trucks out. Put the trucks in a different siding, get the coaches out. repeat. All our 3 of our points are manual, we have three, all going into the centre of a 1st radius oval, all set track. We are, by all definitions, playing with a train set. ANd we love it. our total spend so far is around £120, including plywood, track, controller, loco, books, magazines, and even a visit to Brockenhurst exhibition.
Being a 7 year old, he has absorbed many hours of videos, from your good selves, and "that model railway guy", and sam's trains, among others. When visiting the show, He was greeted politely enough by the (mainly older) gents running things, but the warmth and surprise that showed through, and their response to him when he actually had some knowledge and appropriate questions was touching. Many of them invited him to operate, even on "not for public operation" layouts, and were surprised by his skills in shunting, and his tendency to scale speeds (Proud dad moments!), as well as things like operation of manual points. As a result, we were there a lot longer than the size of the event might have warranted, but on the down side, he now wants motorised points, and dcc, for control, rather than sound effects!
However, I priced up points, track and motors, and IF we could afford all brand new, shiny DCC kit, 1/4 of out planned layout, which is a 1220 x 500mm board, has 7 pairs of point (£8-12 each) plus DCC motors? Add another £40 each!!! a bit of flexi track, not bad, £4 per length, and we need 3. Then start adding buildings etc...
The thing which really sums it up for me is the Dapol water tower he fancies. Over £50 for a little plastic water tower, OK, it's got a servo, and a speaker chip.
I also build RC models, and they are a lot cheaper for parts - a standard servo costs as little as £4.99. I'm into ham radio, I can talk around the world for less than £300.
The only people I think have got a bit closer to the mark are Metcalfe. Considering they are cardboard, their kits look very good, and seem to be mainly under £20, except the odd really big one.
We have initially planned to build a "heritage Railway", based loosely on the holiday destination favourite, Swanage railway. Reading Thomas the tank engine, and a few rides on Swanage, and other heritage railways sums up my knowledge of how steam railways runs. The main benefit is that we are not tied to any period, location or type. Early, late, big 5, post-privatisation, pre-split, doesn't mean a lot to me unless I look it up, I never lived through it. Dr Beeching is just a name I've heard referred to.
Southern Diesel Railcar, running next to an LNER 040 saddle tank, ulling Network southeast coaches? That'll do. They were in the second hand bargains at the model shop!
Would we like dcc? Yes. Will we? probably not. We are looking at almost exclusively second hand stuff, and yes, we're building a bigger layout now (as well as the dining table, the sideboard also has a baseboard no now!).
We were looking at evilbay earlier, and saw a 4 into 6 crossover for £150!!! Second hand at that!
I think We'll keep playing with toy trains thanks!
Sorry, slightly rambling comment, but hopefully shows a real world view!
I agree totally. Personally DCC is not worth the expense but I can see the attraction to a 7 year old lol. Don't forget Dapol building kits which are fun and cheap. My best advice is keep it simple and achievable and have fun. I don't worry about the preserved railway theme, I just run what I like with whatever I like lol
I just wanted to say it was this UA-cam channel that finally made my mind up to get into the hobby! I'm 34 and have wanted a model railway since I was 7. When I was looking at the Model railway press thinking about getting involved in the hobby I thought it wouldn't be possible for me to do. The cost seemed staggering and the sheer complexity and size of some of the layouts was nearly enough to put off. But luckily your videos showing what can be done with limited budgets, limited space and using what you have are what made me take the plunge and buy a set and it's things like this I think the Model railway press should be championing as Well as these top end layouts. So thank you for inspiring me to get involved and give it a go and make the best layout I can make with what I've got and can afford.
Thanks Gareth, I'm so pleased we could help and thanks for letting us know, send us some pics when you get started and we will put them in our newsletter
Perfectly put and I totally agree with everything you've said.
I have to, in a small way stick up for the likes of Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol though as having been a supplier quality engineer I worked quite extensively with Asian manufactures and a lot of the product we had them make was plastics. After visiting our suppliers it was noticeable how expensive it was to make the moulds for the parts and how many minor adjustments had to be made afterwards to ensure parts were dimensionally correct. Different plastics have different shrinkage rates which have to be calculated before the moulds can be made and then this has to be fine tuned which means a lot of samples are created before final production is approved. Then to assemble all the parts is very labour intensive which also hikes up the price, in total it has to come to near on the hundred thousand mark by the time of final release to us the public. So I can see in away why the prices are so high.
Before my dad passed away I told him about the Hornby Cock o the North I bought with TTS and his comment was, that's value for money, and something like that back in my day would have cost an arm and a leg.
I think we are stuck in limbo, reduce the price to attract more people into the hobby will mean the investment of more money to manufacture more stock, this will reduce the manufacturing price but then a lot of inventory on the shelves if the market is slow to react. The more I really think about it the more I can see why the prices are so high.
Why do Hornby sell a newly released loco for say £199.00 but then Hattons or Rails if Sheffield sell it for £130.00, that's a bizarre one for me.....
Yes but Hornby could release a lot if the old Lima models much cheaper with out any of the set up costs as these moulds covered their cost decades ago, a few years ago they had the class33 at £40 so there is no reason why they couldn't do this across the board. The Deltic started at £100 and is now £60 so it could have been that all along if the suppliers and retailers had wanted too.
One of the big big problems is prices .. which you have said .. ok you can buy on E bay , but that can be a problem on its own .. and can be confusing with dc then dcc , needs more clubs but again to hire a room costs big money .. you have said it all ..
Thanks David
My uncle was david howarth
Liam Hughes ?? Need to me
I must agree. In fact for years I wanted to build a model railway (toy train set) and had my dad's old trains and track in the garage but always stopped myself just getting it out and building something. I got them when my daughter was very young and keen (she's now a teenager and lost interest) and I would always design layouts but would never commit. It was the perfectionist in me thinking about what I wanted to model, space and the perceived cost. After watching several of YOUR videos you inspired me to pull it out of the boxes and slap something together. It's not the most spectacular model railway or A grade standard but I have enjoyed myself. In fact I'm thinking of pulling it apart and starting again because I realy enjoyed just building it but now I'm not scared of doing this. Thank you.
Thanks Jason, I'm so pleased we could inspire you to have a go. We wasted time over planning our loft layout and in the end kept it simple and just got on with it. Several of the first layouts we built wouldn't have worked and never got finished but we had fun building them. As you say it's not about perfection it's about enjoying building it, running some trains and smiling!
Hello, 26 years old here. Grew out of my Thomas The Tank Engine train set at 7 years old, but just now I have gotten interested in model railroads as a hobby. 3D printing is new, and I am planning to use that for my model train. Thanks for the video!
toys***
You are so very right in everything you say, what started me on model railways apart from a love of the real thing was me and my brothers xmas present when we were about 7 and 5 it was a simple baseboard layout and i was gobsmacked,,,i loved seeing the trains go round and i still remember my parents happy faces seeing we were happy,,,,,as you say that is whats needed. Now in my 60's i want far more as regards detail etc but we all need that spark of a starting point and it doesn't need grass by a special applicator or buildings that tokk 3 months to build,,,kids don't have that imagination time span you have got to grab them like my parents did,,,,,and whats wrong with seeing them wizz around at 200 mph when your a kid you dont care you just want to see them run,,,,,,keep up the vids and the ideology as they are all sound and we need a march forward
Thanks Leslie
I agree 100%. The prices are prohibitive but you are spot on about the high end 'exclusive' types seeming out of reach. I want my layout to look authentic to a point but i'm not a 'rivet counter'; fair play if thats what you do, each to his own, but i have never felt i had much in common with some in the hobby. I dont mean that in an unpleasant way at all, but the hobby is still geared to the 'experts' market who have a fair amount of disposable income. I enjoy Hornby magazine but i agree that the faultless layouts featured can get a bit tiring.
4 years late here, but I do agree it is expensive to get into after you buy the ‘first set’. You do have to have near enough bottomless pockets to achieve anything. My son and me we go to the shows and see the wonderful layouts that one person or a group of people have made and it can look daunting. I would say 95% of our collection of trains, wagons etc are 2nd or even 3rd hand. We don’t have disposable income but what my son does use on his track he loves and wants to do more.
That brings me onto another point of the modelling, space. To be able to make space requires again money. I envy those you have the space for their layouts and I do my best for my son.
It is also a hobby that does require time and as my children do grow up there will be more time and I take solace knowing that there is people like your channel that can inspire people to make a layout on a budget using whatever they can get their hands.
Thank you budget model railways for keeping the spark in this industry alive for so many of us, keep up the excellent work
Thanks for your comment, and sadly in the last 4 years it's only got worse as even second hand now has rocketed in price. On the plus side I have built several OO micro layout down to 4x2 ft to show you can have a model railway in a limited space. Stick with it, it's a great shared bonding experience with kids, especially as they get older. Doug is off to university tomorrow so our time is ended for a while
Well said. I have thought similar things for a long time.
There is a similar train of thought in model engineering as well, where there are now (reletively) cheap loco kits available in 7.25" gauge, £2K instead of almost ten times that price. Bolt one together, paint it and take it to your local track, climb aboard, and have a ride round. It is still a lot of money, but an acheiveable sum and you only need hand tools to build it - no need to spend £10K+ equiping a workshop.
So I'm 16, I'm building a highly detailed railway and I think that "when theres a will theres a way". I must say that I am guilty of trying to achieve perfection but its just my personal goal. However, due to this I find it absolutely unacceptable on the price front. As my layout is of an LNER period, I need to run teak coaches, but due to the Prices being £30 upward. I've not bought many. I've sourced money by myself and I have enough to complete the railway but It now takes much longer because if I want to run 5 car teak sets thats over £150 and it takes a long time to earn that. Many younger people do not have the time to wait. I am starting a channel showing how I get to make my railway on a relatively small and fluctuating budget. If it is any help to anyone then I will start making the videos.
The problem if I'm being honest is that even though I'm 16 i still have the same mentality as the 60 year old and I can do it as I have the skill and the knowledge but not as many people my age can see that its not so hard and necessarily have the experience and ability, so they get overwhelmed. In essence building a railway is simple and when you see these magazines they portray it being very hard because at the end of the day not all people are like us. They don't want to share or help because its their thing and they want to gloat about how great theirs is. If we had more serious modellers like "Everard junction" and "new junction" I personally believe more people would get into the hobby as they can see how to make things and the break down of complicated processes into bitesize chunks.
Bachmann has bluetooth controlled trains at reasonable prices. Even the sound comes through the smart phone. I think there is a huge future here. They can be seamlessly added to either a DC or DCC layout or run on their own.
The model railway press in both US and UK are guilty of promoting a top-of-the-line-or-nothing mentality.
It is only grass roots channels like yourself and social media that can change all this.
I've got to mention T Trak here, too. The modules are as cheap or as expensive as you want them to be. When constructed properly they simply snap together and apart using Kato track. You can participate in a club or make your own portable layout or both. Even if you only have one square foot available in your home, you can do T Trak. This is primarily an N scale format right now, but is easily adapted to OO and HO. Kato Unitrack is readily available new and used. Kato is starting to promote it since it uses their track exclusively. In the US the 4H clubs and Boy Scouts often use this format to introduce their membership to model trains. Just search T Trak here on YT or on your favorite search engine for more information.
www.t-trak.org/modules.html
ua-cam.com/video/T48x9P9TbJY/v-deo.html
Thanks for the heads up, I will take a look
I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I used to railway model as a kid, but until recently disregarded getting back into it as I could only see that the kind of model railway I'd be happy with would cost me thousands. That is spare cash I just don't have. Having watched a fair few of your videos now I have moved my expectations and am now planning a layout with a maximum budget of £500. Although I will be using new track and wood for baseboards for everything else I will be using many of the money saving techniques you have shown us. From pound land abrasive paper for tarmac to scratch building all of the buildings from printed paper and cereal packets.
I plan to build a small shunting exhibition layout and based upon this video I think I will print my budget spreadsheet and display it with the layout in a hope it helps others also decide then can do it.
Please keep up the great work encouraging others into the hobby as you currently are. Your videos are an amazing source of info, and I am sometimes referring back to your channel in my Instagram descriptions, to help drive traffic to your channel as I think it holds immense value.
It's also really great to see Doug as patio ate about the hobby as he is. This year "Father Christmas" is bringing my 6 year old daughter a very basic hornby set to gauge if she might like to join me on my retake up of the hobby. Hopefully she does and hopefully she will come and run Thomas and suchlike around the main loop while I shunt away in the little goods yard. Maybe that will also help send the message which YOU are already broadcasting - that model railways should be firstly - FUN.
Keep up the amazing work.
Thanks for watching and commenting, don't forget to enter the competition, you might win
And well done for trying to bring another generation into this wonderful hobby
@@BudgetModelRailways - Thank you, but that is the exact set that "Santa" is already bringing my little girl, so I'll abstain from the compo and hence help give some else who needs it more a better chance of winning.
This is how I’ve felt about the hobby for a while. I mean I’m 33 and only just now able to really afford the time, money, and space for a model railway. I’m also a wargamer and I bring that approach to building my model railway (which as of now is just a basic Hornby trainset sitting in a box because I’m still trying to figure out how to lay track on a board permanently without damaging it.)
Well said that man! I totally agree with your thoughts on the elitist movement that are generally chaps with too much time and money on their hands. I do enjoy seeing some of their superb layouts on youtube and the occasional magazine, but they are simply not affordable for the average Joe. My 6x4 DC layout sits on a camping table and the baseboard is made of reclaimed insulation boards. 1st and 2nd radius Track and points (peco, hornby, lima etc) 18 wagons, 6 carriages and 11 locos including 3 very nice Bachmann tank engines, are all from ebay - quite a lot "spares and repairs" which needed a good clean and service to get them running again. Ive upgraded my Hornby R965 controller with a power transistor and a bit of soldering. Points are all manual and I guess Ive spent about 200 quid in total. Im not bothered about mixing steam with dieselsand hydraulics (I love the maroon Westerns) I am still working on buildings and scenery but at least I can get some trains whizzing about, reliving the 10 year old kid with his Princess Elizabeth set. Kevin Close - age 64 and a quarter!
That's exactly the way to do it, have fun, and the fact it didn't cost too much only adds to the fun. We are not alone judging by the comments
Railway modelling used to be more diverse, now it's largely off the shelf even at the high end. After the war basic materials like wood and card were unavailable, and people made do with what was available and a heap of imagination and dexterity.
It's nice that you can buy a loco in a livery that ran on a single branch line in 1957, but it tends to encourage lots of layouts of that thing (note the boom in 3rd rail EMU layouts in recent years), and you have to throw money and time at matching the scene to the detail of the motive power. It becomes an exercise in miniature re-enactment, which is fine but isn't for everyone and won't get newbies into the game.
See how few "what-if" layouts there are now compared to the 1950s and 60s, and why flights of fancy like calvertfilm's stuff is so popular with younger modellers and their parents.
My layouts are based on a "What I can find, and I like how that looks/runs" approach.
They don't have any real scenery yet because
1) My Ho layout is roomates with a minor league baseball player
2) My Lionel O gauge layout is on my bedroom floor and its half-inch high carpet
Great Comments here!!! I was fortunate I guess, to have started in the 1970's, in the US. Prices were SO Cheap, that only your imagination was the limit.
Athearn Trains were my mainstay. Locos were Cheap (under $25 each, until the Horizon takeover in 1997...). Rolling Stock was between $3.99 and $10.99... and I AM talking NEW!
The reasoning of Irv Athearn (Owner until his death in 1995), was - sell them CHEAP and rugged. So kids can play too! Serious Modelers, like myself, wanted more depth and realism. That was also easy, because there was a plethora of Cottage Industries all over the place, making add-on Details, Remotoring Kits, and Weathering Supplies.
NOW, some Corporate yahoo group tries to push the fact that "all we really want, are completed, Detailed and sometimes even Weathered Trains", and that we will PAY nearly anything for them...
I miss the time when we didn't have to WAIT for a Limited Production of something we wanted to go with our Railroad.... We BUILT it, out of what we had.
If we could bring THOSE Skills back, the Hobby could be changed for the better!
Carmine 💥⛽
GWR branch line syndrome
Totally agree with you on all counts !!!! I'm retired on a good pension but I still enjoy making bushes and flowers etc from string and static grass tipped with coloured sawdust. I could just buy all the fancy products from Presipey etc which cost a fortune, but, to me, that's not what modelling is about, to me at least. That would be too convenient and not challenge my dexterity and imagination. Okay, I buy a pack of flowers etc, and then look at them to see how I can make them on the cheap. Many visitors have said that they think there just like the real thing. That's what hobby modelling is really all about. It's what you can produce and not what you can afford. Showing off a fancy highly expensive layout would not give me that satisfaction. Visitors have been amazed at how bushes come from string etc. That's the credit that I truly enjoy and a humungeous sense of pride in what I have created.
Love your videos as they are 'very grounded'.
My grandkids, both boys and girls, are getting into it now and having a go at controlling the layout. Hopefully, we will have 'new kids on the block'. Keep doing what your doing because it works. Cheers.
Well done you for spreading the word
@@BudgetModelRailways I watched the video again and thought about how I first got my Grandkids into it for themselves was to buy the battery powered kits for around £10 to £20 which gave them a loco, carriages or wagons and an oval of track. Because they were young it wouldn't matter if they broke it or it 'fell out of favour', nothing lost eh ! I even use a battery powered one to pull my Dapol Track Cleaner so that I can power up the vacuum to full power from the track, but it only runs at a slower speed using the battery to which I fitted a rheostat on it to vary the speed so that my track gets a better clean up . . don't know where all the muck comes from but it has a far better chance to suck it up !!!!
I was like the young ones that you teach in cadets. I went to a boarding school where you were either: Army, Navy or Airforce. Young ones who join there local cadets are a different breed to the average stereo-type teenager, and usually go on to better things in life by being more grounded and with better life skills. I really can imagine that you enjoy teaching the cadets. You can feel the passion in what you do. Great to know you. lol,
Spot on Mike. I have just watched all the videos on Market town layout. I have today started a similar layout 2 x 4ft, I have dug out 3 old 0 4 0 locos and a pile of second hand flexi track from my old garden layout. Baseboard built out of reclaimed materials and painted using what was left from another project. I watched Douglas 's video on servicing the 0 4 0s so they are running fine on test. I'm 65, been modelling for years. This is a revelation a different way to look at the hobby. So refreshing, so exciting. Keep safe and keep saving us a fortune.
Dave W
Thanks Dave, glad we could inspire you down a different path, have fun
I think you might have just started a mini series here! :-) I like it.
I'm a pro model maker, I'v made models that go all over the world and are built to such a high standard, perfectionist railway modellers and advertising company's will gasp at. There's no such thing as "that will do" in my line of work. About 12 years ago, I was at a railway club, showing some photos of my railway, and someone asked me, (paraphrasing) If you make such high quality models for people, why don't you just build the model railway to the same standard as your work models?? Now, even back then, I was well passed that "cheap as possible" and "use what ever you can get" method of model railways. But that annoyed me, and here's why: Regardless of your method or target, Some people just don't get that the purist/perfectionist part of railway modelling, which is all we see in the advertising now, is a small part of the model railway world. And the bottom line is all model railways, however perfect and exact, are glorified train sets. And that's fine by me. It wouldn't be much of a hobby if I can't decide how to take part in it.
You don't need to be a pro anything to do railway modelling. You just need the drive to do it, and all this high end priced modelling and advertising isn't helping people join the hobby.
People like you, are.
Now, I don't think it's as simple as "just reducing prices" as that doesn't guarantee a new generation of modellers, or especially a future, but I do think model train company's (particularly Hornby) need to make a start on doing something. What ever that something is.
Anyway, who knows what the future is for this hobby. All I know is it ain't ever leaving my house. :-D
Thanks well said, I've a lot of admiration for those who can make high end top level layouts, I'll probably build one myself soon, but you have to start somewhere.
From down under I couldn't agree more fervently, you have nailed it, Tezza
Thanks, we really appreciate all the support from our friends down under
Absolutely right there, as you say you don't have to own a fine-scale and expensive and completely accurate layout to have fun and get young people involved.
Thanks for this video! I'm 36 and just started my first model railway, mainly for my young nephews, and eventually my son (who is only 3). The plan is to make really cool layouts and scenary (Ive been wargaming since I was 12 so hopefully can do it), but until the boys are old enough to really help, I'm just glad to have some track laid on a table and some nice Locos running around. Playing with model trains is the point!
I agree companies like hornby have gone back to the early days of hornby dublo where trains were priced for the upper class market .
I can't afford to buy new trains anymore and have to buy second hand plus if it was not for companies such as metcalfe and scale model scenes selling cheap good quality items people like myself would not be able to afford to build layouts at all .
Yes it's not just the clocks and rolling stock that are expensive, just look at the current craze for pre painted resin buildings at £25-£75+
Nuts i would not pay that at all
you make some very good points about the hobby, as a person who is an all round modeller the cost of some things do hit home hard sometimes. But as modellers we do have to take some of the blame as we build to higher and higher standards, so when new people look into starting the hobby all they see is high end models. So if all people see is a high standard of model making and think how much did that cost or how long did that take to build are they going to do that hobby. I think you are right it's about time the hobby started to look at getting the first time modeller into the hobby with cheep but good looking models and bring them along
I went to a model railway convention this weekend and saw quite a young demographic there and model railways (especially in New Zealand where its majority athletic-based hobbies) are going in a down spiral as kitmakers (no NZ prototype ready-to-run), shops (in my area there was two model shops very close to my home but closed) and NZ model rail guild members dying but seeing this brings new light to our tiny model rail community, if more people are like this there's light at the end of the tunnel ! In the model completion a 17-year-old made a really well-made scatchbuild NZR E no.66 mallet!
Good to hear someone people are doing their best to keep the hobby alive
I couldn't agree more with this. And I suppose I'm one of the people your talking about. I'm 26, almost no expendable income, I'm making a loft layout out of bits and bobs I find in shops. (B&m, pound stretcher ect). when I first got my starter set, second hand, £35 dc set up. I looked at new units and I basically gave up. Before I'd even started. Then fortunately for me after showing an interest in it I got to talking with my girlfriends dad, who happened to have a train set when he was living at his parents, and he still had all his trains, carriages and track in 2 boxes in his loft. Along with all the brochures from that time. And he agreed to lend/give it all to me to get my layout started. Which has basically made it possible for me to get up and running with a half decent size, although still fairly bare layout in my loft. I just buy bits and bobs when I can. And scrounge free card building plans online. And I have to say, most of my inspiration comes from you guys. All your videos of scratch building and doing things on the cheap. Make it possible for me to keep moving slowly. So thank you guys!
Thanks and good luck
I admire what you do with channel, its interesting and a good take on the hobby. I still don't think cost is necessarily the issue, and I see the younger side on the hobby thriving more in the last couple of years than it was even just 5 years ago, I do see this much to do with social media and the likes of UA-cam. I find my hobby is in reality cheaper these days than it was a when I was younger (although I'm only 22!). Nowadays I know what I model in 4mm scale, EM gauge; which is the end of steam in the west riding area. This means I mainly only buy items which suit this period. There is some lovely models out there by the likes of Bachmann and Hornby that I would love to own, but don't because they don't fit in with my era. I also look at the second-hand market. Modelling in EM most locos have to be entirely re-wheeled so buying a new loco is a rare occurrence as the conversion voids the warranty. Instead I keep a look out on the second-hand market and have picked up super detailed Hornby class 08 and a Bachmann 1F for £20 and £25. This was from regular traders at shows. Scenery is also cheap really irrelevant of the standard achieved. We build exhibition layouts that have featured on the front of the likes of Railway Modeller, but the scenery still consists of polystyrene and newspaper! Yes we do use static grass and the applicator was around £100, but this will be used for years and years on numerous layouts. You can see the layouts the Keighley EM group have built here: keighleyemgroup.webs.com/past-layouts , you may recognise some of it from Railway Modeller. Keep up the good work, but modelling and generating friendly discussion in the hobby with topics like this.
You can make a static grass applicator for less than £10 that gives just as good results as the £100 plus Noch example and last as long. But people will still tell you to go buy that one.
For the first time inhave felt like commenting on your video. You have it right. Railway Modeller used to have a Junior Modeller layout section. This was the first part i read as a teenager. When did that go? And yes modern techie trains are fantastic....but the "introduction" end of the market has almost gone. Bring back what Triang was originally built on....affordable play value!
Once again I completely agree with all you say. Great that you mentioned Cyril Freezer, his excellent books "Model Railway Manual" and "Model Railway Design Manual" take us back to the fundamentals of the hobby and are cheap and still easily obtainable. I thoroughly recommend these to anyone either starting out or already in the hobby. These are my essential guidance of how to get the most from the hobby. I think I was the person you mentioned with the Southern Region interest, and as you said, if you have to have the right locos then compromises elsewhere must be found for those of us on a budget.
I've been able to create some really good Push Pull sets and Camping Coaches from the old Triang clerestory coaches for about £5 a go and some imagination. They could even adapt into early EMUs with a motor bogie. Its seeing the potential in items such as these that is so much fun. Spending your way to satisfaction (and I doubt it's always achieved) is no substitute for the huge kick you get out of creating something special of your own. The old push pull coaches were such a huge diversity of various old rolling stock so who's to say whether they're right or not? They certainly look right.
Thanks for the comment and the suppory, it's your sort of attitude that's the way forward
I totally agree about the prices these days. I'm 28 years old and a finescale modeller. I model in EM and O gauge. I remember the days in the not so distant past, I remember buying a current model bachmann pannier for £35 now they are nearly £90. When I need to buy new wheels and detailing parts on top it end up becoming extremely expensive. I admit that my modelling is probably very scary to a beginner but before I joined a model railway club I wasn't able to do what I can now. People taught me the skills and now I pass them on. The Aire valley model railway club is very friendly to newcomers and beginners and everyone is always happy to teach and show people whatever they want to know.
Well done to your club, there are some good welcoming ones out here doing their best
most people look at new stuff to get started. in Canada a plain old DC train set is not cheap. 204$ the companies just have to bring the starting costs down. start people off, and they can grow their layouts in any way they wish. at any price they wish
I would have to say that this is a very interesting video. Now saying that I would have to agree with you in regards to one of the main reasons why people are losing interest in the hobby and that because of the prices. I have been in this hobby for about 3 to 4 years now and it just seems that every year prices go up. It is beyond me on how a company can sell switches (points) for more money when they have the moulds for years. I have two little girls who love the hobby and continuously ask me If they can run trains around the layout. My answer to them is always yes. If these manufacturers want to have a future they need to understand that the prices need to be reasonable And they need to cater a larger demographic. Another thing that I do not agree with is manufactures is selling their products on pre-orders.
Take a look at our recent video on the price of model railways where we also raise the very valid points that you raise. Well done for keeping your daughters involved that's a very important potential market the hobby is ignoring!
I have to agree with that. WOMEN & GIRLS are largely ignored by the hobby - even here in the US of A.
And as much as women spend on "female hobbies" (quilting, scrap booking, jewelry making, drawing & painting) it would be a HUGE boost to the hobby especially if MOM is involved.
That might be a good video to do next.
I had exactly the same thought, crafting in all its forms is huge in the UK with women. We had some single mums talk to us at exhibitions keen to know how to make model railways for thier children
You represent a HUGE untapped Market! Lionel tried ONCE, in 1957, thinking that a PINK, Lavender and Lilac Train would appeal to Girls....
Talk about STUPID shortsided thinking. IF a girl was interested in Model Railroading - she too would want Trains that looked REAL! Not something "girly".
Obviously it was a flop. Today, it only serves as collectable for the cash rich, gray haired Retirees. 😫
I've met some very talented Women Model Railroaders... Sadly, less than 10, in my 45 Years in the Hobby. They're JUST as passionate as anyone else (in fact I believe they are better at Scenery than most Men!!).
I have been a Member of the "World's Greatest Hobby" in the US. It started as a travelling show, promoting the Hobby all over North America... It even brought out Movie and TV Celebrities, that were in the Hobby and had fantastic Layouts.
I've seen Rod Stewart's Layout - MIND BLOWING!!! 😱 Even if it DID cost over half a million dollars do Build!!
But even that, was swallowed up by big Corporate money, and now laden with advertisers, pushing Über Expensive Trains....
PoorManRC I couldn't agree more with your comments re- women wanting realism just like men. Pink, lavender and lilac may look nice but at the end of the day, it's an unrealistic colour scheme. 😳
As I mentioned before, as a kid I loved being down at the "breakvan" MRC that my Dad was a member of. The original club didn't object to me being there, running trains, playing with people and animals on the layout. When an elite mob took over, I was suddenly unwelcome not only because I was a kid but because I had the gaul to be born with overies instead of meat + 2 veg. 🤦♀️
I grew up believing Model railroading was for men. Something men could enjoy but not us. I've been interested in model carnivals for years but only just recently got up the courage to actually do it - where are the best models? Answer: Faller, IHC, Bachmann, Langley. What are they designed for? Model railroad background and scenery. Where is the obvious place to start looking for such things? Answer: Model railroading.
It's been staring me in the face for decades, but I was too blind to see it until recently.
I'm glad to now know that there are other females out there who genuinely enjoy this hobby. I was probably too scared to admit I was interested but discouraged at the same time, probably even intimidated by model railroading being a male-dominated hobby.
I know you saw my comment in your other video about Model Railways being expensive and replied to it. I am thankful for that. I just watch this video and I wanted to say I agree with you, although I am kind of a gamer in my early 20's, I still find a attraction to get back into modeling again once I have some space. I attempted to do a simple wooden board with a level crossing and two stations that was not painted and I didn't really mind that, I enjoyed running my trains. You have been giving me countless ideas of how to bring in young people into the hobby.
1. I was thinking about you maybe making a Budget Model Railway Magazine that people can buy or get free both online and in physical fourm. You talked a lot about how current magazines push people away, so you could make this magazine and have it focus a lot on doing stuff cheep and easy. With some tips and advice for those who don't have much money spare.
2. I know you may feel a bit wary about this idea, so I didn't bring it up in my reply to your comment in your last video and that was if you started being more ambitious with 3D Printing and being able to source some of the components yourself such as the motor I told you about in the other video. You maybe able to start a company producing model railway components are cheaper prices. I know that is what you are technically doing right now and I do like what you have been doing. You could maybe look at producing replicers of Locos and Rolling Stock. I was also wandering in all of this if you could figure out a way for those who own 3D Printers to buy a license or a subscription to produce their own models using your schematics. I know you may not like this idea since it would be kind of taking business away from you, but you could find a way to find a good middle ground, since they would have to buy the parts to finish them separately.
I would like to ask if you could maybe set up a Discord server? it's marketed as a gaming chat service, but it's a lot easier than using social media and forums since you can get instant responses from people and it has a voice chat that people can talk. I have seen a lot of different groupes asides gamers use it. So it might be worth it.
Over all I like were you are coming from and completely agree with you. I came across your channel about a month ago when looking up stuff to do with model railways and you really have given me some inspiration. I was thinking maybe you could make a newer video on the subject with a petition or a servay you could take to suppliers like Hornby and Bachmann. I know they may not listen to you, but if you get this subject more talked about then maybe the stigma about gamers ruining the hobby might ease a little and instead put pressure on the companies to start to either make a budget series or lower prices.
Once again thank you and I hope you do well.
As a newbie to this hobby I must say you are spot on! about the cost and the low take-up of younger people into this hobby and as a 60 plus person with disposable income I am finding it hard to find a bargain scouring eBay and Amazon for this and that so please keep up the good work
You raise some interesting points in both this and your last video, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't.
First, I think a lack of skills is the biggest problem facing anyone wanting to start modelling. UA-cam is a great medium for learning to do anything, but the problem is when you type something like 'learn how to make model grass' into the search chances are ylull find a video that says something like "get this than and the other from Woodland Scenics" and here's what you do with it. THAT is the problem. Everything you watch or read seems to be sponsored by a manufacturer wanting to make a profit. There's no way I'm going to pay a fiver for a bag of coloured sawdust! But plenty of less informed people will.
While out walking the dog the other day down an old industrial railway track (now a footpath) I noticed a bit of sandstone had dropped out of a rockface in a cutting. All around was nice fine red sand, so as I'm currently building a US outline layout, which yes I am trying to make perfect, I decided to commandeer one of the dog's extra poo bags to collect the sand. Once it's dried, and graded it will become the ground cover for my version of the desert somewhere in Arizona.
I have to agree that costs are too high and I put that down to ridiculous levels of detail that are now in every model. There was a time when all models were pretty basic but you could buy super detailing kits if you were so inclined. Now it's the other way around. It's like somebody has fitted all the super detailing kits for you and is charging you for that service. That's fine if you want a model to sit in a glass case. But if you take your models to exhibitions etc then they inevitably get knocked about and worn. It's just the same as happens to the full size versions. So every few years your rolling stock will need a repaint or it might need a replacement motor etc. Personally I'd like to see unpainted and undecorated models available. And I'd DEFINITELY like to see someone supply just motor bogies!
Personally I always buy second hand rolling stock and refurbish it as required. But I've noticed it's getting to be very scarce. I was at the big exhibition at Doncaster Racecource a couple of weeks ago and could find hardly any unboxed second hand stock on the trade stalls but tons of new unsold models. That should be telling the manufacturers something. It's only people who collect model trains who are willing to pay the crazy prices. People like you who build and operate model railways want something that works at the cheapest price, just like the full size boys do.
Finally, as you mentioned Triang, I just wanted to tell you about my collection of class 101 DMUs. I amassed these ages ago to run on a model that was permanently open to the public. They were all just green plastic when I got them, but all received a re-paint into various liveries. The centre cars were crazily expensive, but I found that careful use of a razor saw could make a centre car out of a pair of end car bodies. Those standard Triang motor bogies would go forever too! The only change I made was replacing the wheel sets on those that originally had knurled wheels and I fitted pin point bearings and new plastic hornby wheelsets to the trailing bogies if they were the type where the axle went all the way through the axle box because the originals caused too much drag. Lining out was done with a lining pen, not because I was being clever but because I didn't want to have to buy expensive lining transfers every five minutes. Yes the model is under length, but nobody ever seemed to notice that.
So I think your point about cheaper, less finished models is a good one. I ahve a number of US box cars made by Athern that were actually supplied in a simple kit form. How about doing that somebody????
I agree with every point you make. Basic unfinished models, some OO motor chassis like the N Kato,ones would be great . I agree about the Triang DMU's, I just need to fit some I knurled wheels. Esp agree about the how to videos that mean how to throw a lot of money at it, that's why we try and do something different. Thanks for your comments
Somebody does. Look here www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=parkside
I took up the hobby this year (during the Covid lockdown) and it didn't take me long to realise that the basic train set price is a loss leader, and for every purchase thereafter you get completely shafted for your money if you're not careful. After making some silly early purchases, I now abide by two simple rules:
1. It's my railway, and I don't give a crap if you think it's not prototypical.
2. Never pay full price for anything. Buy second hand - or if you want a new model, wait for a sale or a bargain discounted price.
If we want young people in the hobby we also have to realise that space is an issue in the modern day. I live in an apartment - I don't have room to run the Flying Scotsman on an oval of track, but I do have room to create a coal shunting yard on my kitchen table. So why is it that when I walk into a hobby shop most of the locos are gigantic passenger engines and coaches? Goods shunting layouts, smaller scales (N scale) and microlayouts are the future of the hobby in my opinion. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Hornby Peckett and the Hattons Andrew Barclay are so popular - it's because they are nice models that the ordinary person can actually afford, are fun to play around with and look great on a micro goods yard.
All good points, thanks. The two rules are the same as ours!
I think your point about high end focus hits the nail on the head. I moved out of model railways when I was about 14 and it was all because of the cost. The trains I wanted were far too expensive for me. I realised that spending all my birthday money on just one train would not make me happy and I bought a computer instead.
Nowadays, I only buy second hand, although there are one or two suppliers whom I consider buying from new. Only locos of less than 100 pounds.
I am also starting to realise that I have to take your approach to modelling as well, since I have been going nowhere with that for the past 5 years or so.
Thanks for your refreshing insights!
It's better to crack on and build something, than plan and think and not actually get anything done in my view, good luck with your layout
You are so right about the aesthetic of perfection in magazines and shows. After 14 years and many mistakes, I've dumped my perfectionist pretensions and feel liberated to just enjoy my layout. My advice? Keep EVERYTHING simple (and cheap).
Well said, just have fun
hello,
I'm a year just younger than Douglas (13). Every time I go to a show it call the trains toys. But then people will have a go at me for calling them toy. Then I say who were they made for? They say adults. Then I say NO!, kids.
I think that hornby could sell their budget staff for £10-£15 for a 0-4-0/0-6-0. £5 for their wagons/coaches. And the points could go for £2-£3.
People take it to seriously. At the end of the day they are toys.
Jonty
Very well said, take a look at our video,on prices
Fine line between toy and model though. Very much a hybrid of modelling intent and finish standard with liberal amounts of opinion sprinkled on. As a part time P4 modeller I wouldn't say they are toys yet an RTR loco with low detail I would say is a toy.
Either way we are playing with trains though!!
Yes and No to the remark about them being toys.
I was brought up from a young age to know that "Daddy's train set and Daddy's layout" is not a toy simply because of how expensive it was to make (and he certainly didn't want anything broken) and the carnival ride models I've recently acquired all make it clear in the instructions that they are not toys - they are designed for experienced modellers to build with strict age restrictions on them (most are 15+).
However, the end result at least for me is to be able to create a small carnival with a nearby town (or city as I can see it becoming) with trains running around it. Carnival motorised and lit up and even sound effects... once its up and running - that's when it can be considered an adult's toy because I'm going to be "playing" with it.
One thing no modeller wants, is for something you pour your heart and sole into, getting broken easily.
"Toys" get broken easily.
So, yes they are toys in one way but no, they're not in another.
Excellent! I remember when Lima and Jouef launched into the Irish market when I was a kid and huge numbers of young people took up the hobby. It was AFFORDABLE just like you said.
Also, I think DCC is way overrated. The Games Workshop analogy is bang on. Love the channel. Another element that should be incorporated from fantasy wargaming is things like modular scenery and not glued down building and landscape elements.
Good thought, thanks for your comment
DCC is "mostly" overpriced! Most of the DCC costs for a beginner are for the initial control hardware and remote, and if you wanna add sound. Some DCC decoders are only $22, though that's probably at an H0/00 size. Smaller decoders (more suited to N scale) are more expensive, closer to $35-40. Those controllers though... They can run hundreds! If you want to run DCC, but cut costs, go with an Arduino and Open DCC++. It's open source and free, and can run on a $10-20 Arduino clone, equipped with the motor shield! If you want a wireless remote... Don't recycle your old smartphone next time you grab the newest model. Reuse it as a wifi touchscreen controller, with the appropriate _free_ app and a cheap obsolete PC or a Raspberry Pi as your interface computer (or use your main computer, if you don't want to dedicate a separate one)!
To be fair, a $5 Arduino Mini clone and a motor driver chip has ALL the functional capacity to perform DCC decoding. It's only a matter of time before the open source community takes on end to end DCC control and develops cheap, and fully OPEN hardware for all applications. They've already got the controllers, track control, accessory control, and feedback done and dusted. They just need to figure out in cab DCC decoders that are cheap and small, and then tackle sound after that.
DCC looks incredibly fun, but you're right... It's expensive, especially if you add sound, and especially with large locomotive fleets. For a beginner though... Some DCC boards are already tolerably cheap, and once you want to upgrade to more than one or two locomotives, the value becomes obvious, but the cost multiplies quickly... It WOULD be nice to see Open DCC++ tackle the decoder end of things. Maybe we get to the point where a $5-10 DCC decoder is a reasonable possibility?
It'd be especially interesting if they took on sound... We'll just have to wait and see. I've seen people shoot down would be DIYers in other comments sections, eschewing the GLORIOUS and PERFECT multitrack sampling of DCC sound brand X, and how some amateur hack couldn't possibly recreate it with shabby, cheap hardware... Well, actually... It shouldn't even be hard. Even some of the more well regarded sound decoders, like LokSound, are just using an Atmel and a Winbond chip... The first as a processor, and the second for storing the audio samples, along with a few passive components, power regulation components, and drivers (probably MOSFETS). The Atmel mega they use already has hardware that can be used as a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), though they might be using an external DAC as well. I can already tell this from a mere photo of one. Those are all off the shelf parts. It's seriously ridiculous how simple the hardware is! What you're paying for, are sound samples and programming. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be paid for that work... They do... I'm just saying that if an open source solution becomes available, then there'd be some major tossup in the competition scene... If the hardware could cost $10-30, and the true value is in the software and the sounds... What happens when the open source community offers that for free, on affordable hardware?
To me, DCC was once an unattainable pipe dream. I was away from the hobby for years. I've been wanting to get back into it, and I'm suddenly realizing that the per unit cost has dropped enough to still sting, but not outright hurt, and the high entry cost of the initial control hardware has been nearly entirely mitigated by Open DCC++!
You can get a used Bachman EZ command DCC controller for around £20 on eBay or most model shops will have a second hand one lying around they will sell off cheap.
You can get a chinese decoder for around £7 each by a company called laisdcc.
DCC doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that. It just gives the ability to run many trains with one controller.
People do over complicate with computer control, shuttle sections. For simple layouts, it just makes things easier with no isolating sections, a single controller and the ability to run many trains on the same track.
All good points, one day we might look at DCC, I've not seen controllers that cheap yet. One small point, you don't need isolated sections with DC , insulfrog points do it automatically for you
Budget Model Railways You may have misread, I did say without the need for insulated sections :)
I use DCC just for its simplicity of wiring and being able to run off a single controller. I’d consider our layout to be a train set with a bit of scenery.
You could do an entire series on Budget DCC ;)
Really pleased to listen to this video.
My daughter wanted me to get a train set and I was astonished at how expensive it all is.
I built up a set as a child with my pocket money, something clearly impossible now.
Thanks to your excellent tips, I’ve finally got started on my layout, working with mostly the materials I already have on hand, and it’s progressing very well. I really appreciate your advice. Looking forward to more videos. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Jeff glad we could help, send us some pics if you like
Personally I will sometimes spend money on a very expensive engine or I will buy a really cheap one. The thing about model railways is you can do what ever you want. I don't mind running a British loco next to a American engine because it's my model railway, I have had people who get mad at me for doing that but I don't care. It's my model railway!
Kupferbergbahn Exactly.
The idea of a "perfect" layout should really be what's "perfect" to the owner of said layout.
It's YOUR model railway. No one elses.
At the end of the day, who is going to benefit the most pleasure out of your trains running on your layout? Answer: You.
spot on you are dead right,many modellers would have kittens if they saw my 00 gauge micro,which was an attempt at getting as much as possible in a small space,complete with its sci/fi and steampunk influence,and must not forget capt, nemo,s other submaring parked in the harbour,this has been pretty cheap too with secondhand and hornby 040,s,running on it,i also have build a couple of tramways with the same sort of theme,complete with airship docking facilities and an n gauge 4 ft by 2ft with as much as I can get into it plus a pretty outlandish airship flying over the top,non of this is expensive with most of the scenery made of card,things like grassmats trees etc are available at most art shops at cheaper prices that at the model railway shops too,pity the manufacturers don't cut the prices,produce the item then make the detailing separate to fit at home that would help bring prices down,besides you very often cant see the rivets as it wizzes past on the layout anyway,just a few points,best wishes,you are doing a great job.jpj
Sounds fantastic in both meanings of the word! Can you send us some pics please?
not very good with the technology but I will see what I can do,its not great work,bit crude at times,but one must try,in peace.jpj
I'd want to see that layout.
I came into the hobby after my dad gave me some of his old locos and a Hornby train set. I am in my teens and I like to think I reach some sort of middle ground between perfectionist and going completely free style. I learnt the basics of everything from reading Hornby magazine, it was a great starting point and taught me skills like basic scenery, ballasting and wiring. I recently joined my local model railway club and have learnt a lot about scratch building buildings from nothing more than a photograph. I would never say I'm as good as the people who have been doing these things for decades but I'm willing to give it a go. There is no best way yo get young people into the hobby, it just needs to click really. It did for me at a toy fair I went to, just seeing all the different stock. My friends would never get into the hobby, mainly because it just doesn't appeal to them. I believe that the rising prices of things only limit me if I constantly buy brand new things. You complain about the price of locos, but you really need to shop around, there are brilliant prices out there. You don't need lots of locos on a layout, so spending over £100 from time to time isn't as bad as it sounds. The price has never put me off, I've always found a way around it. My home layout has just been swamped by recent weather which has dampened my spirits, but I do plan on building an exhibition layout to a high standard soon, incorporating everything I've learnt. It might not be as cheap as yours but I want to make something that looks good, runs prototypically and gives me a sense of enjoyment. The way to get more people evolved is to make them feel welcome at shows and events, and to involve them. Let people run your layout, talk to them, and just don't leave them out. Just a few thoughts from someone who doesn't think they're 'special' because they like trains and are young. - Josh
How are you doing model railway wise
Thanks for this particular video, you're spot on !! Keep up the great work. Thanks, Greg, N.Z.
Great video. I agree with your points especially on how the model railway companies appeal to a very limited demographic and I’ve thought for a while about the untapped market of people being priced out of a hobby they’d otherwise be interested in taking up. Maybe someone’s should start up a brand that’s more like a 21st century reincarnation of tri-ang - with affordable lower detailed trains. What would you say to that?
Watch this space, we have just started experimenting with a 3D printer
Budget Model Railways liking the sound of that
Managed to get a load of stuff from eBay locos carriages etc.. and no I don't care about era's.. I want to run trains..through some scenery.
Exactly, same here
Quick question.. does the train set I am building have to be under 100 all in including locos to feature in your newsletter?
No , just so long as its budget in concept we would be happy to include it
You have hit the nail on the head! I am mid 60's but started with my TT layout when I was 12, a circle on a carpet, and it was great!!
TT is great, I wish it had taken off in the UK, thanks for your comments
Great video with some fantastic points. As a club member I think we should do more to engage with young and old to get more people into the hobby. We do publish a newsletter that is free to anyone who is interested. I think sometimes clubs are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Exhibitions are a lifeline for many clubs, after all club rooms aren't cheap. This means trying to produce high quality models which can be very intimidating to people that are new to the hobby.
The price holds me back. I'm 17 and I have bought some sets and things. I'm highly interested in trains and I don't have the money for it.
You might want to look into G-scale. Ironically, going big ends up being cheaper in the long run, since while the unit costs are more expensive, you end up needing far less equipment overall.
In an 11x14 room, in G-scale you might be modeling just a small segment of a short line, maybe an industry or two (the equivalent of a 4x8 in HO or OO scale). In O-scale, that becomes a town. In HO or OO, it's a district. And in N, it becomes the entire line. And while a single 2-axle boxcar in G may cost as much as an entire 6-pack of N scale 40-footers, you're going to need a lot more of those packs to fill up your roster in N scale. And don't even get me started on motive power.
Plus, G-scale doesn't need benchwork or even roadbed if you don't want to commit to a big, formal layout like that. You can lay the track bare on the floor or even take things outside.
I have been tempted by G and O for the very reasons you state
@@BudgetModelRailways
I would definitely go with G rather than O. G tends to be focused more towards narrow gauge, and as a result you can get away with tighter turn radiuses since almost everything is either short-wheelbased or articulated. I'm not familiar with the UK market for O but at least in the US O tends to focus primarily towards museum-quality models of large mainline locomotives with long wheelbases, with O-27 being relegated to "collector's item" status.
@@VestedUTuber we get some very nice small locos and rolling stock in the UK in O, often at very little more than top end HO.
@@BudgetModelRailways
That's another thing to note. Here in the US, the unit costs for O are actually comparable to G for equivalent equipment, thanks to MTH.
I think you have summed up the main problem with this hobby perfectly. But it is not just the manufactures & the press, some of the shops are also doing them out of bringing new people back into the hobby. I have been wanting to return to it after 10 years, but so much of it puts me off, the main reason I have not ventured further is the cost! I went to a model railway shop in Sheffield 3 weeks ago, and I was put off instantly. I enquired if they had a budget Deltic? £300 for this loco, got told this is the one you need, we put our own sound in it etc, how do you want to pay? was the next thing asked. I went in asking what budget stock do you have? And can I see your DC controllers you sell? They totally ignored what I wanted to find out, my check-list did not get information regarding any item, they was so obsessed with trying to sell me stuff I did not want, at prices that I cant afford. I just walked out as they was not listening to me, the customer!
What you 2 do is great, you have great enthusiasm for this hobby. We need mass produced products at a reasonable cost, not limited editions that cost twice as much. I went to a local exhibition and it was full of young kids that were excited, that is what is needed in this hobby, but there is also room for the higher end stuff, but they are loosing the plot, we need quantity & quality at a reasonable cost, not small quantities & poor quality at a very high price.
Thanks Paul, I've seen it myself in shops. Instead of making £65 selling you the railroad Deltic they sold nothing. The old professionals who taught me how to retail in the 1980's would turn in their graves, I was taught a sale is a sale and never judge a customer or alter how you served them wether they spent .50p or £500.
I temember when the revamped HSTs came out. I was bubbling with excitement, then a week or two later they were ALL sold out.
What a piss take. It's normal now to induce a panic buy mentality. Whatever happened to having a steadily expanding range?
No point buying catalogues now, waste of money.
One other thing I can think of is that, due to catering to the older veteran hobbyist, there's a distinctive lack of modern-era equipment. Sure, there's some, but there's a lot less than there is historic equipment. A lot of young people these days have never seen a steam locomotive in person outside of a museum, especially in the US where diesel phased out steam almost instantly. I know I didn't grow up with them, I grew up with Metra's fleet of F40PHs and MP36PH3Ss and BNSF's fleet of GP38s and Dash-9s. In the hobby, however, most equipment seems to be either steam or transition-era diesel, with an EXTREMELY heavy separated bulk freight focus, which isn't something young people can relate to.
A larger variety of modern equipment, especially passenger equipment, would help make things more interesting to younger people.
Personally, I'm in the 25-34 demographic. I've already been kinda in the hobby on-and-off (mostly off, since I also have to focus on robot combat), but for me the issue is cost, and availability as well due to the scale of the equipment I like to run.
I think what you are doing is bloody great to be honest! You have certainly taught me you can enjoy this interest and not spend a small fortune.You have also shown me you dont need a massive layout to enjoy it.I enjoy seeing those trains go around the tight curves also! Thank you and keep up the great work!
On the note of starting with cheap railways, Argos have the Christmas Express set in for about £34 now... It's in clearance.
www.argos.co.uk/product/4398725
I think we need lima back in the UK market: a class 66 in those days would cost 30 pounds a hornby model with the same tooling costs twice and sometimes even tree times as much for basically the same thing.
the hornby railroad range is lima ! they own lima
Not all of it, the 0-4-0 and 4wheel coaches and wagons are all or by and should be about half the price they are
Spot on, Me and my Dad are currently building a railway. I came to this after falling back in love with Lego. I enjoy learning how to make the layout. Even if it isn't perfect to other people me & my old man are enjoying it and thats what its all about. Keep up the good work, Fair play to you for working with our youth. They are obviously our future excellent work.
Bang on. I Come from a custom motorcycle background, back before Custom Chrome and Ultima existed, back before you could build a Harley using no Harley parts, back when custom meant "you" made and modified what you could and farmed out what you couldn't to the trades people who could which was rare so most of the time you had to learn yourself: these days blokes can't even do an oil change and pay around $500 for $80 in parts and 3/4 hour labour just for a basic service and pay in excess of $100k for someone to build a custom bike for them and half of that is out of a catalogue... It's not just model trains (which I've recently got into after having them pre-teens) I bought a Minic motorway for nostalgic reasons and had no intention of going further, then I started looking for a level crossing that integrated with the motorway (I had Triang and Minic over 50 years ago) and it escalated from there, I had no idea that DCC even existed but have decided to go that route only because I can just afford it: I've purchased 4 times more than I need just for items I wanted (maybe more) in used bulk lots that I've picked through and will come close to making money on what I sell off once done... Yes I've bought some new stuff so at the end will be out of pocket by a few thousand dollars before all the electronics which at first shocked me, it's at least 3 times more than I expected. As for weathering and era? and keeping it realistic... Um. I like my stuff clean and after all is said and done, it's about enjoyment, what you like and obviously what is affordable: I've seen so many negative comments on UA-cam about not weathering or ballasting with rocks you have to pay for that it's ridiculous or running out of era. My layout is a bit of everything from 30's - 50's steam to 70's diesel, Australian houses, English pubs and Swiss chalets (all placed so they don't look too out of place) Building a certain era and keeping it all within that would cost twice as much. At the end of the day it's also for my 3 grandsons (3, 4 and 5 yo) so they can play trains and cars as well (I'am keeping the mint stuff out of reach for now though) I get the purists with fully operating signals and lighting etc, it's all most have as a hobby but don't bag out someone who isn't... I can build, paint and wire a 60' British motorcycle to concourse condition, most without a workshop manual, others can do things I could never achieve. My bikes and trains (and cars) are toys built as I like them and to my standards, it's good to learn but if it ever got to the point I felt I had to conform to someone else's standards I'd give it away.
Sorry for the epic rave ;)
One of the best thing's I've ever watched about the hobby.. Cheers and enjoy.