Schelling and Irrationalism (feat. Christopher Satoor)

We welcome philosopher Christopher Satoor for a discussion on the philosophy of Schelling, the great German idealist. We will focus our conversation on two Marxist critiques of Schelling in Lukács' The Destruction of Reason, to Engels' critique of Schelling from his notes on attending Schelling's lectures as a younger student. Christopher Satoor is an expert in German idealism and a strident Schellingian, so this conversation is sure to be of interest!

[@redlightoftryst1769]

I actually learned of the anecdote of the young schelling holderlin and hegel dancing round the tree of liberty from lukacs study on The Young Hegel. That was one text of lukacs that wasnt mentioned but he does talk a lot about schelling in the early chapters, in the context of his influence on hegel.
I really appreciate this episode as someone very much commited to marxism but also hesitant to dismiss idealist or "irrationalist" philosophers entirety. The guest was very knowledgeable and seemed like a very pleasant person to talk with about such things. Ive read most of schelling's Clara and found that to be pretty fascinating from a litererary and philosophical perspective. The author Frederic Beiser mentioned here is also a great resource for learning more about the history of german idealism.

[@franciscoborja877]

I love hearing Christopher talk, he is so clear and precise while addressing very complex and convoluted topics and arguments. Truly an excellent conversation.

[@bornaradnik8296]

Excellent discussion Chris and Daniel! This is certainly an interesting topic, as it touches on the political implications (intended or not) of philosophy as a whole.

[@rafaelmelo6236]

My article about the concept of freedom in Hegel and Schelling (inspired in this conversation):
If you discover a truth by yourself, a truth that is not only unsupported by others but is actively repressed by the masses, are you willing to continue defending that truth? If the answer is yes, your conception of freedom aligns with that of Schelling, for whom freedom is deeply connected to individual autonomy, even in the face of opposition. On the other hand, if you only accept truths that are already widely recognized and shared, your view of freedom reflects the Hegelian conception, where freedom is fully realized only when it is collectively acknowledged.
Lukács, following a tradition that dates back to Aristotle and continues through the medieval scholastics, feared the risks of a conception of freedom modeled after Schelling. Aristotle asserted that the corruption of the masses is less harmful to the political order than the corruption of the best man. From this principle came the scholastic maxim "corruptio optimi pessima est" - the corruption of the best is the worst of all. For Lukács, Schelling's philosophy represented not only the cradle of voluntarism but also an entry point for irrationalist traditions, such as Nazism and fascism. However, Lukács's mistake lies in comparing distinct things: the virtues of Hegel's theoretical philosophy, which could promote scientific progress, with the vices of Schelling's practical philosophy, which, according to him, would foster authoritarian and voluntarist cultures. A fairer analysis would be to compare the virtues and vices of both theoretical and practical philosophy in both thinkers.
For example, a little-discussed flaw in Hegel's conception of freedom is the possibility of abolishing politics as a space for public deliberation. According to this view, one could imagine a future where the State, having reached a maximum level of perfection in managing social "goodness," would no longer need to subject its leaders to popular suffrage. Power would be in the hands of an elite of bureaucrats and specialized technicians. This conception is manifested in structures like the European Union, communist China, and, philosophically, in the positivist doctrine of Auguste Comte and the globalist ideology in its various forms.
On the other hand, the often-overlooked virtues of Schelling's conception of freedom lie in the artistic and technological flourishing of the most advanced cultures in history. Many of the greatest inventions and advancements did not emerge from bureaucratic or collectivist societies but from individuals or small groups. What would modern cities be without cement, invented by the Romans? How would life be without electricity, cars, airplanes, computers, or the internet? These innovations, which shaped the contemporary world, were not the products of bureaucratic scientific societies but the efforts of creative and visionary individuals.