Can you make more Empire guides, army comps and builds for lords and their most optimal armies? Like, idk how to get the most out of karl. Used to be witch hunter wasn't even part of the armies anymore before the last patch; an up to date guide on the new meta would be nice.
potential "improvements" tweaks to the army: swap two handgunners for nuln ironsides and checker box them with the ironsides out front. swap one outrider, for its grenade launching counterpart and watch him go to town on infantry blobs. additionally i would take out the witch hunter and put in a wizard (shadow - gives great debuffs to enemy units including lords plus pretty nice damage spells, light is OP because you can stop the troops and just shoot them, death can spirit leech the enemy lord and or heroes). personally i use two mortars in my setups at the expense of one outrider but this setup can work as well, i'm gonna go off to try it next.
so i believe costin is right with the power of outriders but they should be used differently than what the video showcases: since they dont fire when moving you cannot skirmish any mobility without using crossfire (which is where you surround a mobile unit with guns on 4 sides and the 3 sides not being chased shoot the unit) their range is a bit misleading since they CAN shoot at 120 range but will only accurately shoot at around 60. you need to get them into shotgun range to work well. this one is not to do with outriders but NEVER send a witch hunter to skirmish out of range of other infantry. that forced costin to take very bad engagements outriders and pistoliers actually have quite a good charge because of their mass and speed. when fighting greenskins, wood elves and skaven feel free to charge them into low tier missile units for a quick rout. also charging into the back of a unit reduces its leadership by a good amount so you can use them to break the ai blob on your flanks. double goes for nuln because you can make them super speedy (which increases charge dmg) overall, a great early game unit which has potential for tons of dmg.
To be fair the witch hunter was there to get Isabella down. Would have been a lot harder without it. And they do fire while moving, but you do need to face a target. Good points otherwise.
Theres something wrong with Outrider targetting, you can see here they are shooting pretty near but only deal miniscule damage per volley which is dumb considering their bullets are armor piercing. I have actually been using Amythst Outriders and War Wagons and I can see the difference.
I think it is because they have multiple volleys or projectiles per shot, I observe that only a couple of the first projectiles are accurate the rest of the projectiles are not so it's not really effective in killing small single entity units
@@yuzuftazimo2157 From what I can see it's not effective at all. If you compare them to normal hand gunners or War wagons they deal very little damage. It just looks awesome to see do many bullets go out but they kill very little enemies.
I'll admit i don't have a lot of experience with outriders( so take my criticism with a grain of salt), but just like all other missile cav, you give up a lot of dps potential for a bit of mobility(which is uniquely useful vs vampire counts). If you had 6 more handgunners and held the line, you could probably eradicate every mayor threat baring vlad before they even make contact (the grave guards and wargheist and isabella). Once you kill the rest of his army it should be easy to reposition your guns to deal with vlad as well. And the micro needed would be a lot less. This is also much more versatile vs factions with ranged units.
or Vlad would wipe out everything. The problem with a handgunner army is that it either curbstomps everything or terrain limitations make it weak or a strong enough enemy wipes it out. Outriders have a lot more flexibility. There's some maps which are worse for them but they can still work. Besides that they are actually quite solid vs ranged units, because their speed and shooting while moving allows them to avoid a lot of the ranged damage, handgunners lack that.
I really want to like outriders but on smaller maps its kinda hard to use them long enough to get the worth out of them. Small maps where the enemy spreads acrossed the entire map you can get maybe 3 volleys and then just have to fall them back behind the lines. Granted you can flank them out when the lines clash but takes alot of macro. Maybe ill give them another shot after this patch but i normally would just get pistoliers for early game and replace them grenades later
Am i the only one who thinks that it`s not well played on the left flank? Basically took a lot of damage on the knights in a bad engagement with the Blood knights while the dogs were on the outriders. Should have been exactly the other way around.
Instead of handgunners and greatswords go for free company militia and Stirlands revenge, also 2 well hidden hunters for large stuff, you should keep them as a surprise, and buff this army with Volkmar, with this config everything you have is gonna shoot and run, just take down the fastest units your oponent has and kite the rest as you did this game.
Outriders are strong. They do great damage while giving a ton of flexibility. You can meet threats and mitigate them or flank around and shoot in the back.
Could you make a Nuln army compositions video? I'm trying to figure out how to make the most of all the gunpowder units but I'm struggling in keeping them alive and firing :(
Nuln Ironsides with some artillery and heroes and steamtanks/landships to tank and disrupt the enemy. Some Demigryphs with Halberds on the flanks can also help
War wagons are actually better, their shots are more accurate and they have 360 firing on move, and mass to escape infantry or dire wolves if you keep them moving enemy melee has difficult time hitting them. And with lore of life caster you can "heal" wagons.
Rush Ironsides and it is GG, even with a full army of them, maybe supported by a few cannons(especially if you get grapeshot on them with Elspeth later on) , or long rifles every thing dies so fast you don't even get touched.
@funkyd3321 yea, he struggled with killing vlad with the outriders. In my 2nd campaign with her tonight, the ironsides deleted him in about 10 seconds, multiple times as I cleared the vampire counts.
this army sucks man...... mo caster really? a burning head would have cleared all those Skelton chaff, and tbh outriders are just not good in campaign without the hochland scope traits, get some state troopers to at least hold the line, leave gaps in between and shoot the enemy with your hand gunner from those gaps, maybe leave like 2 skirmish cav for drawing the enemy out but no more dude, with a less micro intensive and more stationary army you could have destroyed that count army without breaking a sweat.
Can you make more Empire guides, army comps and builds for lords and their most optimal armies? Like, idk how to get the most out of karl. Used to be witch hunter wasn't even part of the armies anymore before the last patch; an up to date guide on the new meta would be nice.
Just made a campaign guide for Karl yesterday, check it out.
It's a long gameplay with commentary here and there. :,( I struggle taking much out of it in that format.
Then look for a different guide homie @AlecFortescue
Witch Hunter has a use case but probably still isn't meta in battle more so on the map.
potential "improvements" tweaks to the army: swap two handgunners for nuln ironsides and checker box them with the ironsides out front. swap one outrider, for its grenade launching counterpart and watch him go to town on infantry blobs. additionally i would take out the witch hunter and put in a wizard (shadow - gives great debuffs to enemy units including lords plus pretty nice damage spells, light is OP because you can stop the troops and just shoot them, death can spirit leech the enemy lord and or heroes). personally i use two mortars in my setups at the expense of one outrider but this setup can work as well, i'm gonna go off to try it next.
Witch Hunter "Dies"
Imperial General: "Ah Shame, NEXT!"
so i believe costin is right with the power of outriders but they should be used differently than what the video showcases:
since they dont fire when moving you cannot skirmish any mobility without using crossfire (which is where you surround a mobile unit with guns on 4 sides and the 3 sides not being chased shoot the unit)
their range is a bit misleading since they CAN shoot at 120 range but will only accurately shoot at around 60. you need to get them into shotgun range to work well.
this one is not to do with outriders but NEVER send a witch hunter to skirmish out of range of other infantry. that forced costin to take very bad engagements
outriders and pistoliers actually have quite a good charge because of their mass and speed. when fighting greenskins, wood elves and skaven feel free to charge them into low tier missile units for a quick rout. also charging into the back of a unit reduces its leadership by a good amount so you can use them to break the ai blob on your flanks. double goes for nuln because you can make them super speedy (which increases charge dmg)
overall, a great early game unit which has potential for tons of dmg.
To be fair the witch hunter was there to get Isabella down. Would have been a lot harder without it.
And they do fire while moving, but you do need to face a target.
Good points otherwise.
Nuln also makes them faster and gives them strider they also get shots that slow enemy speed.
Theres something wrong with Outrider targetting, you can see here they are shooting pretty near but only deal miniscule damage per volley which is dumb considering their bullets are armor piercing.
I have actually been using Amythst Outriders and War Wagons and I can see the difference.
They do lack in accuracy that's for certain.
I think it is because they have multiple volleys or projectiles per shot, I observe that only a couple of the first projectiles are accurate the rest of the projectiles are not so it's not really effective in killing small single entity units
@@yuzuftazimo2157 From what I can see it's not effective at all. If you compare them to normal hand gunners or War wagons they deal very little damage. It just looks awesome to see do many bullets go out but they kill very little enemies.
@@Costin_Gaming Is there any way to make up for the lack of accuracy?
@@marcbeans3057unit levels gives a lot of it
I'll admit i don't have a lot of experience with outriders( so take my criticism with a grain of salt), but just like all other missile cav, you give up a lot of dps potential for a bit of mobility(which is uniquely useful vs vampire counts). If you had 6 more handgunners and held the line, you could probably eradicate every mayor threat baring vlad before they even make contact (the grave guards and wargheist and isabella). Once you kill the rest of his army it should be easy to reposition your guns to deal with vlad as well. And the micro needed would be a lot less. This is also much more versatile vs factions with ranged units.
or Vlad would wipe out everything. The problem with a handgunner army is that it either curbstomps everything or terrain limitations make it weak or a strong enough enemy wipes it out.
Outriders have a lot more flexibility. There's some maps which are worse for them but they can still work.
Besides that they are actually quite solid vs ranged units, because their speed and shooting while moving allows them to avoid a lot of the ranged damage, handgunners lack that.
I really want to like outriders but on smaller maps its kinda hard to use them long enough to get the worth out of them. Small maps where the enemy spreads acrossed the entire map you can get maybe 3 volleys and then just have to fall them back behind the lines. Granted you can flank them out when the lines clash but takes alot of macro. Maybe ill give them another shot after this patch but i normally would just get pistoliers for early game and replace them grenades later
Am i the only one who thinks that it`s not well played on the left flank? Basically took a lot of damage on the knights in a bad engagement with the Blood knights while the dogs were on the outriders. Should have been exactly the other way around.
Vlad " Healing cap? Never heard of him"
Instead of handgunners and greatswords go for free company militia and Stirlands revenge, also 2 well hidden hunters for large stuff, you should keep them as a surprise, and buff this army with Volkmar, with this config everything you have is gonna shoot and run, just take down the fastest units your oponent has and kite the rest as you did this game.
Outriders are strong. They do great damage while giving a ton of flexibility. You can meet threats and mitigate them or flank around and shoot in the back.
Could you make a Nuln army compositions video? I'm trying to figure out how to make the most of all the gunpowder units but I'm struggling in keeping them alive and firing :(
Nuln Ironsides with some artillery and heroes and steamtanks/landships to tank and disrupt the enemy. Some Demigryphs with Halberds on the flanks can also help
You should drop a Gelt campaign so we can see our boy in his new empire lol
War wagons are actually better, their shots are more accurate and they have 360 firing on move, and mass to escape infantry or dire wolves if you keep them moving enemy melee has difficult time hitting them. And with lore of life caster you can "heal" wagons.
They see me Ridin!! They Hating!!
That just seems like a LOT of micro, and combo dependency for something you can do easier with better units.
Rush Ironsides and it is GG, even with a full army of them, maybe supported by a few cannons(especially if you get grapeshot on them with Elspeth later on) , or long rifles every thing dies so fast you don't even get touched.
@@Evirthewarrior Yeah, Elspeth has far too many options to go all in with outriders. Her only problem is running out of things to fight.
@funkyd3321 yea, he struggled with killing vlad with the outriders. In my 2nd campaign with her tonight, the ironsides deleted him in about 10 seconds, multiple times as I cleared the vampire counts.
Outriders miss most of their shots since it scatters in all directions, against smaller targets you're wasting more than half their firepower.
Dude... your micro xD ... .... .... while explaining ... xD
this army sucks man...... mo caster really? a burning head would have cleared all those Skelton chaff, and tbh outriders are just not good in campaign without the hochland scope traits, get some state troopers to at least hold the line, leave gaps in between and shoot the enemy with your hand gunner from those gaps, maybe leave like 2 skirmish cav for drawing the enemy out but no more dude, with a less micro intensive and more stationary army you could have destroyed that count army without breaking a sweat.