I think it would be more accurate to say that it's on purpose, but it's a combination of pure luck, a fucken miracle, and a lot of brute forcing through failures that got it this far
Amazing review. Most people who have this many hours in the game just basically say the game is horrible. It's very difficult to be able to balance both the pros and cons when you're this close to the game, and also be able to zoom back and summarize. I think this should be what should be send out to new players when they're considering playing the game. Your thesis that this is really just an insane, well funded, super complex private fan server of a multiplayer RPG, rather than a legitimate AAA mainstream MMO venture, puts a whole new context on everything and I think helps set expectations as well.
@@Devildog0491 Definitely thank you very much for making this review. I was skeptical of bad reviews, but I also didn't trust the good ones. This was as honest for all good and bad qualities of the game that I could have hoped for. I ultimately won't get it because of the monthly subscription I heard of, the 50% of dealing with top tier shite people, and the tediousness/long grind for stuff you could lose easily because of lag in combat if you don't live in the EU. This game sounds absolutely like what I've always wanted in a fantasy mmo, especially the forging your own weapons and armor for others and it being nameable/signatured by you, but the cons are just too severe.
Almost 1 for 1 with this game with Tamers, Dexers(Str here), Mages, Necros if you want a game(its much older) but extremely similiar full loot pvp check out a Shard called Ultima Online Outlands it still gets updated to date, has about 5k concurrent players
I don't know, this kind of reminds me of face of mankind without the hardcore player base. Now I know mortal online too has a hardcore player base, but it's not face of mankind hardcore. In that game you literally had players running their own police academy.
MO2 sits in an odd spot for me. The same spot Albion sits in. I got about 300 hours in and called it a day. I *really* love what they have going, but attempting to progress with my little group of baby geared friends felt like an exercise in wasting time. You spend an hour getting somewhere just to get ganked by 3 people on horseback who don't even give you the option to drop loot and have to hold that. Maybe I'm just a care bear but if there was a PvE server, I'd put an ungodly amount of hours into the game.
you might like the new update. they've made it a lot more new player friendly by adding guards along main roads as well as making tasks which give decent rewards
Funny. I played the game for roughly 3 months myself. I just got bored and put it down after some time, here's the funny part. I played the entire 3 months solo, when you do it that way it's basically Elder Scrolls meets tarkov. I found returning to town and getting my daily tasks done we're not that difficult, though I did have the odd Bandit trying to kill me every now and then.
As someone who picked up the game and then stopped after a few months because I got a job, this game isn't for anyone that needs to make actual money to survive. The most important points you touched on: #1, Have some way to explain the skills and such AT character creation so that you don't have to nuke your toon and start all over just because you didn't pick the right race/weight combo; #2, Have some way to fast travel or make it way waaaay easier to meetup some place with your friends to go do things; #3, Cut down on the worst of the grind aspects like leveling magic as you stated. Just doing those 3 things would lead to so many more players. I for one would most likely come back in a heartbeat if that were the case.
BY FAR, yes honestly BY FAR the most accurate review I have ever seen. Every single player has equal love, hate and obsession to the game. They quit the game in rage, they return to the game just to do it over and rage quit again. I have learned that the only thing that makes this game is the people you play with. If you find the right guild you will get the best game experience ever, if not you wont last.
You just got to love the romantic aspect of just a couple of guys starting this passion project and making a game that is completely unique and offers truly something no AAA developer has managed to do. It is much easier to overlook flaws and bugs that way because it just deserves a bit of sympathy. Now I dont know if I ever return to this game but I have played it for months and during that time I had some moments that really brought back the magic of videogames in a way I havent really experienced since my childhood. Like, I think it was the first day after going from Haven to the main game and after a while I got lost in the woods around Vadda. So no minimap, no map that indicated my position. All I had was this shitty map from some website and I really had to puzzle out where the heck I was and how to get back to town. I studied local rivers and with the help of the compass trying to navigate to a recognizable landmark. Deperately following this path in the hope it would lead me to a sign that would point me in the right direction etc.... All in all, it took me a good 20 minutes to get back to Vadda. And of course know that if I run in to a pack of angry wolves or a very bad man... that would be it... That sheer sensation of being lost while absolutely in real danger hasnt emersed me in a game like that for a very long time, probably not since I first booted op WoW in 2005. Because all we do now is follow the arrow and click on the glowy thing in most open world games, even in good games like the Witcher 3. So, yeah, if anything MO2 really brought to my attention what awesome things videogames can be and how criminally underused the medium is.
IMO the weakest point about this game is the community. I tried to get into this game myself, but time an time again I would just be attacked an zerged by nearly ever group I ran into. I would be killing zombies in the graveyard leveling some skills an a group of 10 guys would zerg me an just mass shit talk me while doing it, go mining an again just be zerged by people while being shit talked for mining, I'd be running parcel between two towns and again I'd be zerged down by a group while they shit talked me. An when I tried to join groups the the ones I joined were just toxic an not willing to try help people get involved in their existing group even though they say they're recruiting. I joined one group were they lived no were near a town so they were completely based out of player homes but they wouldn't give me any access to anything in any of said homes so if I wanted to group with them I would have to gear myself in Fab than spend 30-40 minutes running across the map by myself to join up with them while they wouldn't wait up for me an would already be off an doing the content we were grouping up for. Than they got pissy with me when I decided I didn't want to stay in they're guild because of it. Another group I joined I would get on at off time when they all were online doing something already an when I went to join up with them they would provide zero information or help with were the fuck they were, so I could rarely actually join them or if they did I'd end up showing up an they'd be in a dungeon like the Sator one an they would leave me sitting on the outside of it for 2 hours while they sat in it killing mobs farming matz while I twiddled my thumbs outside an shoved them up my ass cause yah fun group content with toxic unhelpful community. Simple I tried like this game but the community for this game is just to dam toxic or people are just to unwilling to help allow others to join their existing group even when they spout BS an say they're recruiting.
This idea for teleport in capitals with a huge cooldown (8-24 hours) I tried to push to Henrik with no result so far. And that is the reason why I dropped my first stronghold in the jungle, because to get anywhere to interact with players you need to ride for 30-60 minutes every single day. While naked teleports would help alot. Also there is a cool system in Black Desert that allow you to auto-ride to a place. If same system for spiritwalking would be in MO2, then people could at least choose a city to go and go afk while their characters would fly to the place in the ghost form.
@@samuels1404 I mean only auto-ghosting to a town instead of holding W for 15-60 minutes while dodging rocks. Anyway nothing can happen to you during this time, you cannot lose anything. And with auto-ghosting you would be able to just go afk for this time.
Not fly but if it walked over water and terrain automatically but at a slightly slower speed than manual that would be great QoL. You can still be banished this way.
I had a similar idea where it included a 15-30 minute cast time essentially to transport places (with nothing equipped). Still requires time involved to get places but allows people to feel like their time isn't wasted as much.
Your points are spot on. I agree with almost all of it, albeit some ideas of my own here and there. A great analysis. I'm in more than 3k hours into the game as a solo and I'm loving it non-stop. Props to all the community members like you and the devs for giving us this gem of a game. Edit: I also wanted to add that the goodwill of the company, Star Vault and Henrik as CEO is just very unique. For a game that was modeled from start to be a subscription based game, they held back on that revenue just because they wanted to deliver a more polished product. With the launch of UE5, there are technical difficulties that sometimes make the game unplayable and Henrik just stated that they will refund that time to the players. I think most people simply overlook how much goodwill the company has.
I am at the very beginning of the vid, but the devs actually added 4 dungeons from the launch: Necro, Ultimeki (same update), Fabernum Sewers and Morin Khur Sewers.
Totally agree with the leveling mages.. the system is just broken. It should be organic, where you level spells as you use them, like in Skyrim. The problem is that the fumble rates are all out of wack. At the lowest end of the skill curve for the current spell you're trying to level, you should fumble like 30-50% at most. Right now you fumble like 95% or more.
@15:41 you mention that Mortal encourages player engagement by accident, and I'd actually like to push the argument that its intentional. I think the secrets, the nebulous crafting, the boss books, and the brutal environment all pushes players to work together by design. Henrik's whole reason for having a singular character in MO2, however much I despise it, is to push you to work with people. But that's just my $.02
Some kind of Spiritism portal where people could go and its like a magical area anyone can get to and interact, make deals (but not trade, keeping regional value), shit talk etc would be nice. Like a spirit lounge. When you leave you're dumped where you entered. Make it unusable in combat. Would really boost player interaction a tonne I reckon.
Cool to see a in-depth review of MO2. All i know is MO1, still got flasbacks.. Towers made of human skeletons, AQ hacks, Corrupt GM's, nodeline insta deaths, supermolva's and exploding horses. But epic, glorious and rewarding if u learn to fight, sorrow and a dread when u know not. MO 2 looks great and all we have theorycrafted for years is in there (like Henrick was silently listening like a Santa or a spy!) The launch killed me, they made me mash a button that wasn't even working for 2 days. Good review, appriciate.
I use to joke that I'm was gaming back in the days before Pong was called Pong. I have literally played more MMOs over the last few decades than I can honestly remember the names of. Most of them I started while they were in the testing phase still and not even in a production release state. But with that said, I'm still very new to MO2. I don't even have a month of game play in. Some of the things I have noticed and I speak only in regards to Haven. 1. The game introduces you to the concept of book learning, but doesn't tell you there is a library where you can purchase books to read and learn. That library is off the beaten path in town and is literally by itself in the section of town it is in. This approach to learning skills feels like it was pulled directly from EVE Online. 2. The magic system simply doesn't work in Haven. I say this because there is two critical books you need that aren't available in Haven to learn. Those being scribbing and skimming. Which doesn't make sense as there are spells you can scribe to a spellbook at Haven yet don't have access to scribe to add them. 3. The combat system is both simple and difficult. Simple because the defense and attack are very straight forward. Difficult because the angle of said block or strike is dependent on the orientation of you mouse at any given second. A block to your left will instead become a block from above simply because your mouse was orientated a hair off when you initiated the block. Same with attacks. Maybe with a ridiculous amount of practice and muscle memory you can get this down pat. But man .... 4. Crafting system is hit or miss. Same with harvesting resources. It almost feels like you throw a bunch of stuff into a mixer and hope for the best. And most of the time, what comes out is useless. And the number of skills you need to fully harvest a resource to its full potential output is mind numbing. 5. Animal management needs tweaking. Your game crash, and you get left in the game for more than a minute. Alot can happen to you or your pet in that time. I've already lost a number of pets to incidental death just due to my own mistakes or crashing out of the game. 6. Leaving the game. In a safe spot, you leave in 10 seconds. Not so safe spot, you got an extended bullseye on your fed head waiting for the game to let you leave. It is almost like the game wants you to lose all your #$%^.
Agree with most of what you said. I think pretty much every system in the game is flawed in one way or another. However the biggest issues have to do with the inability to play solo without having huge restrictions on what you can do. As well as the downtime betweeen all the fun things you can do in the game. PvP is super fun ,but it sux to grind rocks for 1 week as casual player ,only to lose your steel set in 10 seconds after you left town. The balance between the fun moments and the downtime between them needs to be reworked. You touched on this as well, it takes literal hours just in preparation for big fights. Other issues in the game are the complete lack of varierty of armors and customisation, theres like 5 armor sets in the game and the only difference is the texture on top. The Pets are OP af, pets should only used as support, not your main damage dealer or tank. Animations are terrible, Melee fighting sux with all the spinning and combining that with the lag and weird animations it makes for a horrible experience. If you fight someone and he hits you with his sword from 10 meters away while not even looking at you, thats mo2 melee combat in a nutshell. Armor not mitigating any of the magic damage is just shocking, how did they think thats ok?? Weapon balance is completely off, you have 2 bows you can use mounted in the game, both have same dps except 1 of them requires only half the stamina, how does that make any sense? still no fix after 2 years.
This is great! I just started playing a week ago and loving it. I definitely want to get in with a competitive company. Any ideas on where to look for people that mainly play is U.S. time zones in the evenings?
With 8760 hours in a years time you've essentially spent half your life playing this game over the past year and half.... That's nutty.... Took me like 3+ years playing Rust until I hit 4k and I felt like a little goblin.
as much as I get frustrated about Henrik, Sebastian and the coding team do a very good job with what they've done. There are a lot of frustrations as well, especially with them still ironing out the UE5 upgrade, but I always have to remind myself that it is indeed a small indy team
Even something as simple as pressing priest telling you which priest it will take you to would be huge QoL improvement. Next level would be auto-ghost where it takes the fastest route to a destination and auto-jumps priests when possible. Writing that gave me EVE online vibes.
So about the macros and tedium, that was a big discussion and it actually landed in favor of people say they want MORE tedium. A concrete example I can give you is training dummies not leveling your skills up passed 25. "You should go out in the world and level". The game never had a shot from the get go because of the people Henrik kept around.
The moment with multiple characters still questionable. Yeah, you can try multiple builds with multiple characters. But reputation will stop working, and it actually work right now already, and will work way better after release when there will be way less alts. But this moment could be fixed by system like in Black Desert where no matter the character people can see your acc name. But the main thing is professional tree. With many free alts for everyone game will face the same problem as MO1 - there will be close to 0 interactions and the dead market, because people will be able to do everything themselves instead of interacting with each other and actively use broker. And even now we can see difference in prices that went way higher without tons of alts farming afk.
I don’t want to be that guy, but Planetside 2 does something really similar, just in a Sci-fi setting. Granted, it doesn’t look nearly as immersive as Mortal Online 2, but I thought it was worth mentioning because I LOVED that game.
@@Devildog0491 Damn dude still that's a lot lol. But if you love a game you love it I suppose... Im not really one to talk.. i got a few titles with over 1k myself.. but never so many on a single title
Great video. Personally, I couldn't get into the game even if I wish otherwise. The time commitment required to play the game prevents a lot of people from joining. The time to learn skills, the time to farm ressources, the time to travel to and from an objective, and the time to prepare for whatever you want to do. Especially when the time spent on those activities is almost purely wasted as there's little to no gameplay during them. I can't justify spending 30min in travel time and just watch a character ride a horse with zero decision making in a play cession that I would want to be an hour long. The game doesn't respect your time and as such it's with frustration that I have to categorize it as just another live service game I won't play for being a chore/ a second job rather than a pastime. Also slight tangent, yes, having to group in a multiplayer game is amazing and brings back for me the nostalgia of the early widespread internet gaming era, but there ought to be some safeguards for small groups or solo players. I believe that the solution to win can't be "just have more people" as it is now in many a case. It's not a question of preventing big alliances, it's about creating a space where smaller groups /solo players can interact with each other meaningfully. In a game where you depend on other players so heavily, small groups and solo players can't prevent the community feel of the game. In any case, I will hopefully continue to look at it every couple of months for the next few years of development until it becomes welcoming to a different type of player.
I believe alot of the time wasting statements can be circumvented if you have multiple people working on the same objective such as farming resources and getting gold the only thing that is truly time consuming is learning skills but even then your main skills come from just playing the game this games takes so much less time to max a character than other mmos honestly but then again your completely right about travel time and such maybe a portal system would be pretty good for this game
How though the only skills that take time to grind are the newer magic schools which are completely optional and I agree they are ridiculously stupid to have to grind out but everything else in the game even mining for Matts and stuff aren't that time consuming if you have more than just yourself working together
@SpaceNick__ dude, I can put a macro on that is supposed to spam cast spells and get my elementalism from 1-100 leave it casting for 12 hours and not be maxed. This macro is casting the same spell over, and over, and over, and over. Its mind numbing terrible "gameplay" if you can even call it that. Keep in mind this is far and above the most efficient way to do it and borderline exploity. They expect players to do this shit out the gate because your character is basically useless without certain skills leveled up. Don't tell this isnt tedious for the sake of tedium. It is either 1. Complete incompetent design or 2. A ploy to keep server population up. Either are shitty.
Yeah that's the shitty parts I hate about the skills and I agree they suck I just don't think the rest of the game is too grindy you can literally hop on a day one or two character and do dungeon raids with your friends if you play right is all I'm saying
I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that. It's a two-fold problem: 1. the time issue: it is not a problem that developing skills (like scribing lol) and grinding resources and moving around and building takes time, even if I think it takes too much time in my opinion, the problem is that it isn't gameplay and not easily achievable in shorter play sessions: you don't put your character on a rock to farm granite and think to yourself "wow this is fun/interesting/exciting/etc.", it's a chore ; you don't watch your character ride a horse for 30min and think it's a complex/complicated/interesting problem to solve, it's a chore ; you don't think "wow grinding for hundreds of gold just for the spells I wanted to build a character/buy crafting ressources" is interesting or a fun problem to solve, it's a chore. Now the time it takes is rather irrelevant to the point, it's a significant portion of the time spent on the game and is there simply to occupy me for longer, I don't need that in my life, I'd want to chat with players while doing some problem solving (only interesting shared activity really is combat in this game and its a shame it's such a low percentage of gameplay time). It would be immensely more satisfying to have to deal with risk and other problems while farming/moving/etc. but there really isn't anything to do. 2. the player interactions issue: as a solo player, I stand undue risk of being the victim of a larger group of people. It isn't an interesting problem to solve for a group of 5 players to kill a solo player. It isn't an interesting problem to solve as a solo player to be killed by a group of 5 players. Now, in my view, what would be an interesting problem to solve, is to have to interact with sometimes friendly or hostile players of similar group size. Dungeons limiting access could be implemented. A group of 20 players don't need to have access to easier dungeons made to be experienced solo/duo, and vice versa. A group of 3 to 7 players don't interact against each other the same way a group of 20 do, and don't need the same gameplay either and don't stand to gain interesting interactions from each other. 3. So what would make sense? to have the opportunity and the reason to group in different manners, with different players, for various activities. Would communities of different sizes be a negative impact on the overall sense of shared experience present in the game? I think it would only make it more interesting as the choices wouldn't be limited to "group or risk not having fun and having no opportunity to win and waste more of your time". tldr: it's a waste of time if the experience you're having isn't interesting for large portions of the time you invest.
Great video! I hope it will reach Henrik. In regards of the fast travel, I think this is quite a delicate thing to balance. To me, what almost killed this genre of MMO was the conveniences that were given to the players over the years. Early MMOs the players had to do everything together through interactions. Today you can log in an "MMO", find a group, do a raid, pvp or whatever without having a single direct interaction with another player. It's all automatic for the sake of convenience. And to me these features almost killed the genre .We can't really call games like WoW and FFXIV MMOs when you spend most of the game time in instances. The players needs to be out in the world for interaction to happen, specially in a game like MO2. That being said, I do think fast travel could and should be added to MO2. Maybe a mix from the portals in UO and Valheim. I think some school of magic could be able to open portals using runes bound to places, however you can't bring any crafting resource, money and things of value...or something like this. I mean, in the same way the game needs players out there in the world, us players also need to have the time to actually be able to go out in the world. So yeah, we need some fast travel system.
I agree with you that fast travel can ruin MMOs A world loses it's immersion when people can start avoiding interacting with the world by not traveling through it. Take Eve online. One of the most successful MMOs ever and still running. Travel is tedious AF, but there are ways around it. Random gates like Wormholes or helloff expensive like Jump technology. A guild shouldnt be able to get Mercs/allies support on the other side of the map in a second. It should be a campaign. If your guild wants to contest the Sator Dungeon, then you will have to make it a quest, where the group moves there for a week. Live and stock up there for a while. The entire map shouldn't be accisble with the click of a button.
As far as the server tech goes, and the massive open world with no loading screens and massive battles. Darkfall Online did it first and then MO1 was a competitor a year later however neither MO1 or MO2 has ever had the population Darkfall did when it was at its peak. But even Darkfall recognized that it needed a NA and EU server even though it originally launched with just one server. The idea of a one server for the world seems like a great idea but when you have this style of action combat it's just impossible to make "fair" for all players involved.
imo, DF was never the same after the server split. I played from beta and until end of 1.0 and I really think that the time before the splitting of servers was the best. That said, DF did not have the extreme ping-sensitive combat that MO2 has. It was just such a bad time when half the players just left for another server and the community was left in pieces. Missed my boys in CAPSULE / Kill Cult :(
I can explain the heavy armor system. Its because increasing the stam use was to hard to balance. They tried it a LONG LONG LONG time ago. It was either to harsh or not an effect at all.
@@Devildog0491 How is it false, when the truth is they as in SV could not balance it correctly back in the beta of MO1. I was there I remember it quite clearly. And we even had a joke in Aegis Imperium, "Seb is bad at math."
Well back in the days we had Planet Side 2 1000 vs 1000 without lags, 10-12 years ago. Another thing i don't like is the book passive skills system blocking your progression for days and you don't pay an heavy sub to sit and wait.
Lol 400 players in real time no other game on the market.... And i was thinking EVE online multiplies that 400 by a lot and is arround for YEARS in all fairness i would not like TIDI in these types off games tho :P
My MO2 experience: 100h Haven. 1h Myrland. Getting ganked over and over by max geared players outside Tindrem. Asked 3 guilds to join. 2 responded with: No noobs. The other one didn't even respond. Great game 10/10 would never play again. Albion has more skill related combat.
my problem is now, i dont know what i should play in mo2. thursar, veela, orghmir, human, they all have their own meta gifts, its hard to decide between ultimate running speed against ultimate strength etc... its so hard to decide, even magic vs melee, i dont know what i should do
7:00 dealing and living with challenges from huge ambition like global - will make this game great. keep going, dont improve instantly over evolving above the challenge
Been waiting for a while to try MO2 as I was playing mortal online right up until the announcement of MO2. Star vault was a dumpster fire then and I haven't really heard much commentary on them since. Loved the first game though and got mega addicted to it, joined quite a few different "groups" and social circles in my years of playing it lol.
"I believe Henrik is suffering from that." Community chatter might be a lot less negative if the suffering actually showed through at all in his streams.
This is one of these games i want to play, but knowing how much i hate pvp will never take a step into this game. PvE players can be toxic but tend to have very little effect on another player, pvp on the other hand can get ugly real quick. It's not for me so being able to at least look at them through video is kinda fun, seeing people who know what they are doing.
Do you think on a balance standpoint that there would be more of a balance and variety of builds of the quality of bows scaled off of dex instead of str. Like when is it necessary to kinda disregard realism for a better game state. One of the first things I notice when I started playing. I feel like it bottle necks footy play style.
You are completely right... This game beed more fast update, especially as locations, dungeons, or just big caves to explore without bosses... This is the most immersive mmo right? Well, some good exploration & LORE items would be good. Like old books you can find in various chests, to delive to an ancient imperial librarian in Tindrem, or outpost watch towers in the countryside.. maybe a couple of isolated farms with miniquest like "bring me a stack of crops" or "those cheetah are killing my cows, bring me 5 cheetah furs and i will give you this money"... NPC in cities that just say a short phrase like "have you visited our Sewers in Morin Khur? My cousin said there are huge rats lurking in the dept of those caves.. he almost got eaten by them!" .. or maybe some random NPC roaming the streets in Caravans that you can attack or just trade with those NPC for black-market-like items... Sarducaan caravans, or meet a Kallard hunter in the snow.. maybe a Sheevra thief on the side of the road... 😅 for make this world and lore alive.
I think my biggest pet peeve is I hate wasting resources and or time. Like for crafting, why would I make 3 million shitty swords just to destroy them all. If I spend time making something I want it to be used for something. Even if it’s just a training weapon or a cheap weapon for some peasant or an army of orcs or goblins or something.
Oh one more thing. On the topic of getting players ready to do things. Never run a major fleet op in Eve online have you? Players in most MMOs including this one are abput as prepared for any operation as a toddler with getting ready for bed. If you train your group to be ready when you say be ready it cuts the runup time drastically. I have straight up left players who were not ready when i said roll out time was X and they show up at X+5.. well you knew the time thats on you. Ask your boss why he is firing you for showing up late.
Ok, as someone with a bit of coding knowledge, you are way off base to compare Star Citizen server tech to SV. Dont get me wrong, SV have done one hell of a job with the networking code on MO. Their tech IS impressive. But what the Star Citizen team did, assuming that their demos are just half as good in the real world execution, it goes far beyond SV tech. And this is to be expected. Star Citizen has a HUGE development team behind it and some of their techies are insanely gifted. Like an entire team of Farmer Johns working away. And Star Citizen has had no loading screens for a very long time now as well. But the beauty of the Star Citizen tech is more in line with streamlining, getting rid of the traditional “node” structure and revamping how all of that is done. It is absolutely revolutionary in nature. It impressed me so much I upgraded my opinion of Star Citizen from “pipe dream” to “glorified tech demo”. Hell, one day it might even BE a game.
How is it different? Henrik has talked about how their replication layer has caught and kept huge fights going in the past and the SC demo is literally 3 hubs crossed by a replication layer
@@Devildog0491 it is different in execution. You couldn’t process the same scale as Star Citizen with the same tech. Even if SV were to implement every single continent they can think of, it wouldn’t even come close to the scale of just one planet in Star Citizen. Now all of that scale takes a ton of resources and having large amounts of players in various parts of the system while still being able to have that persistence is a challenge I never thought they would overcome (and until I see it happening live and not just as a demo, I will still say they havent overcome it). They had to take what could be done with current tech and rebuild it in such a way that you dont need a super computer for each node to be able to do it. IF it works, they really did do something special. But once again, I will only really believe it when I see it. I just didn’t agree with you that it is the same thing.
@@Devildog0491 Don't tell me you you don't have huge freezes when you go through "supposedly non existent" node lines since UE5. You don't have that kind of thing in SC. And the playable map,even not counting planet ground, is sooo much bigger. Good video by the way.
There is already visible effect of lack of new players. If you look at the market and lack of basic materials for sale only high end stuff. New players and casuals usually are the ones who provide the market with basic materials but now you cant buy most of the basic stuff. Ofcourse groups and guilds can provide mats for themselves but the playerdriven market is dry.
I had same thought on the point of ele been really easy to get, compared to mo1 where to get all spells you would gonna have to go on a quest around the whole myrland and sarduca with its mysteries on how you get them
If this game canned the full loot nonsense and simply let enemies loot whatever is in your backpack including gold, I'd be playing it right now. But at this point in my life, I really don't want to deal with losing the gear I'm wearing even if it is relatively easy to replace. And this is coming from a pvp perspective.
Nice review, Mortal is a great game but you wouldn't state what you said about magic and net code if you would ever play Darkfall. Game was lacking in a lot of aspects but magic, net code and pvp wise it was wayyyy ahead of Mortal Online 2. Seamless world big fights without any issues with large numbers and magic that was just spectacular and way better and faster than mortal.
Im a new player about 200 hours in , im having a blast, so much fun. The only downsides ive experienced is zerging , which if they were to change it might take away form the game idk. So anyone says you have to join a guild , i still havent joined one i have been in a cuple guilds discords and thier are so many downsides to guilds im trying to avoid it. Well see
Sight i like the game -- ower 600 hours in -- but what is werry frustrating to me is constantly hear that they want more rewenue and steady growth of players. Then they shut the additional rewenue streams down by saing you wont be able to sub for the game trough steam and eppic. Basicaly going if you like the game pay us directly trough our pages or dont play😞. We rather hawe 0 money and loose players than have atleast 70% cash from aditional sources. 😐 -- its like we want cash for dewelopment but some cash is not good enoug for us😐
After Necromancy did it right, Elementalism acquisition was soooo soooo bad. Of course doesn't help when they let exploiters exploit dungeon so long people don't even want to go in. And THANK YOU, so tired of people saying MO2 is better game without fast travel--it's not. There is no MMO in existence that doesn't have fast travel. Any open pvp game I played, even ones with sieging had fast travel. The scale of the magic is cool in this game. Being a turret caster where you charge up the spell and release in place, with no movement powers yet, no instants, no CDs to have spells that can be stronger but can only be used occasionally, not even making magic use some of the cool reactive mechanics of melee so you can't just cast and forget is bad, and I think only the water ward in elementalism is made to function like that. This makes makes MO2 mages ultimately the most boring style magic I've played in a game, feeling a bit worse than vanilla WoW except that you have to aim, know how to run, parry, or stand up on things to not let people get to you. And until walls in elementalism there were no cool feeling of pulling a group of enemies and blasting them down without exploiting (ahem, now called safe spotting) so they couldn't to you. Now some you can fireball a couple times and pull them into a powerful wall spell. Still kind of boring. But it is what it is.
What an insult to say one of the best games but I think it's on accident... I know you've heard Henrik explain his vision a multitude of times. This isn't an accident. It is as he wants it. I agree with a lot of your commentary but obviously not the accident part. It's a bit insane to describe the pros and cons purposefully built into this game and then say it's an accident. I haven't played this game since just before UE5 due to the amount of time it takes to play. But every patch I see it becoming more of what Henrik has described he wants it to be. Like you said, the time investment is a big con for us that have lives in the real world. But it's intentional and it makes the game what it is. Sure it could be more arcade-ish and only with a few minutes could jump in and play...but that would completely change it. It would lose something significant.
Just started last weekend. The tediousness almost lost me. Might still. It’s a cool game for sure though. I just don’t want to waste so much time basically doing nothing significant or fun. Just got into a guild and that has really made a huge diff. I would have quit if I didn’t.
surprised you used mage leveling as an example for tedium instead of taming lol grinding taming is soul destroying. atleast with a mage, even without macros you can just sit mostly afk spamming a spell with 1 button and watch tv while doing it, taming you have no such luxury.
It is impressive that they can do 400 player combat but I would not say it is unique to mortal. Albion have had bigger battles and EVE have had way bigger battles. The way the combat works out is different in mortal however but I think a lot of that has to do with them doing a few things client side. Same for the way it plays, it exists in a few games other than Mortal. I haven't played mortal for a good 3 months now but I always ALWAYS read on what's new. It's the most interesting and actually cool game out there to me. I wouldn't mind a bit more convenience features but they also shouldn't overdo it, making things easy makes the game modern and in many ways really bad.
Player count is hardly the only factor here. The two you marked as having larger battles are essentially top down LoL quality graphics and a spreadsheet simulator. Nothing is at this level of quality, immersion, both in first person and with these numbers of players
@@Devildog0491 Only Albion is top down, and the graphics are generally not the limiting factions but rather the CPU and that depends more on the amount of players, visible equipped items and other dynamic objects close by rather than the perspective (in a top down game the characters don't only exist on your screen but a rather stupid big area outside as well). Also generally the further away a character is in a MMO like these the fewer calculations per second are done for them. The real problem for something like this is either way not the client but the servers and for that it matters even less what the perspective is. I agree though that MO2 is more immersive but I'm not sure if I would say it has higher quality.
Not all those things. EvE Online is made up of nodes connected through warp points. MO2 is truly one seamless open world with functioning real time action combat. There are a lot of similarities but MO2 is a much more advanced game in that aspect. Star Citizen is trying to do that, be an EvE Online in a MO2 style enviroment, but failing miserably so far of course.
"One the best games of all time and I think it's on accident" perfectly put
I think it would be more accurate to say that it's on purpose, but it's a combination of pure luck, a fucken miracle, and a lot of brute forcing through failures that got it this far
Amazing review. Most people who have this many hours in the game just basically say the game is horrible. It's very difficult to be able to balance both the pros and cons when you're this close to the game, and also be able to zoom back and summarize. I think this should be what should be send out to new players when they're considering playing the game. Your thesis that this is really just an insane, well funded, super complex private fan server of a multiplayer RPG, rather than a legitimate AAA mainstream MMO venture, puts a whole new context on everything and I think helps set expectations as well.
Thanks man, I dont see the private server viewpoint as a negative, some might but I think its awesome if you look at it through that lens.
@@Devildog0491 Definitely thank you very much for making this review. I was skeptical of bad reviews, but I also didn't trust the good ones. This was as honest for all good and bad qualities of the game that I could have hoped for. I ultimately won't get it because of the monthly subscription I heard of, the 50% of dealing with top tier shite people, and the tediousness/long grind for stuff you could lose easily because of lag in combat if you don't live in the EU.
This game sounds absolutely like what I've always wanted in a fantasy mmo, especially the forging your own weapons and armor for others and it being nameable/signatured by you, but the cons are just too severe.
Mortal Online 2, what a unique game. Nothing else like it.
Sad, and for the better, at the same time.
Ultima Online (: The game that inspired this one
Almost 1 for 1 with this game with Tamers, Dexers(Str here), Mages, Necros if you want a game(its much older) but extremely similiar full loot pvp check out a Shard called Ultima Online Outlands it still gets updated to date, has about 5k concurrent players
I don't know, this kind of reminds me of face of mankind without the hardcore player base. Now I know mortal online too has a hardcore player base, but it's not face of mankind hardcore. In that game you literally had players running their own police academy.
MO2 sits in an odd spot for me. The same spot Albion sits in. I got about 300 hours in and called it a day. I *really* love what they have going, but attempting to progress with my little group of baby geared friends felt like an exercise in wasting time. You spend an hour getting somewhere just to get ganked by 3 people on horseback who don't even give you the option to drop loot and have to hold that. Maybe I'm just a care bear but if there was a PvE server, I'd put an ungodly amount of hours into the game.
you might like the new update. they've made it a lot more new player friendly by adding guards along main roads as well as making tasks which give decent rewards
Funny. I played the game for roughly 3 months myself. I just got bored and put it down after some time, here's the funny part. I played the entire 3 months solo, when you do it that way it's basically Elder Scrolls meets tarkov. I found returning to town and getting my daily tasks done we're not that difficult, though I did have the odd Bandit trying to kill me every now and then.
As someone who picked up the game and then stopped after a few months because I got a job, this game isn't for anyone that needs to make actual money to survive.
The most important points you touched on:
#1, Have some way to explain the skills and such AT character creation so that you don't have to nuke your toon and start all over just because you didn't pick the right race/weight combo;
#2, Have some way to fast travel or make it way waaaay easier to meetup some place with your friends to go do things;
#3, Cut down on the worst of the grind aspects like leveling magic as you stated.
Just doing those 3 things would lead to so many more players. I for one would most likely come back in a heartbeat if that were the case.
BY FAR, yes honestly BY FAR the most accurate review I have ever seen. Every single player has equal love, hate and obsession to the game. They quit the game in rage, they return to the game just to do it over and rage quit again. I have learned that the only thing that makes this game is the people you play with. If you find the right guild you will get the best game experience ever, if not you wont last.
You just got to love the romantic aspect of just a couple of guys starting this passion project and making a game that is completely unique and offers truly something no AAA developer has managed to do. It is much easier to overlook flaws and bugs that way because it just deserves a bit of sympathy. Now I dont know if I ever return to this game but I have played it for months and during that time I had some moments that really brought back the magic of videogames in a way I havent really experienced since my childhood.
Like, I think it was the first day after going from Haven to the main game and after a while I got lost in the woods around Vadda. So no minimap, no map that indicated my position. All I had was this shitty map from some website and I really had to puzzle out where the heck I was and how to get back to town. I studied local rivers and with the help of the compass trying to navigate to a recognizable landmark. Deperately following this path in the hope it would lead me to a sign that would point me in the right direction etc.... All in all, it took me a good 20 minutes to get back to Vadda. And of course know that if I run in to a pack of angry wolves or a very bad man... that would be it...
That sheer sensation of being lost while absolutely in real danger hasnt emersed me in a game like that for a very long time, probably not since I first booted op WoW in 2005. Because all we do now is follow the arrow and click on the glowy thing in most open world games, even in good games like the Witcher 3. So, yeah, if anything MO2 really brought to my attention what awesome things videogames can be and how criminally underused the medium is.
The review I needed. Played 400 hours upon launch and nice to hear what was (and not) addressed. Ty.
IMO the weakest point about this game is the community. I tried to get into this game myself, but time an time again I would just be attacked an zerged by nearly ever group I ran into. I would be killing zombies in the graveyard leveling some skills an a group of 10 guys would zerg me an just mass shit talk me while doing it, go mining an again just be zerged by people while being shit talked for mining, I'd be running parcel between two towns and again I'd be zerged down by a group while they shit talked me.
An when I tried to join groups the the ones I joined were just toxic an not willing to try help people get involved in their existing group even though they say they're recruiting. I joined one group were they lived no were near a town so they were completely based out of player homes but they wouldn't give me any access to anything in any of said homes so if I wanted to group with them I would have to gear myself in Fab than spend 30-40 minutes running across the map by myself to join up with them while they wouldn't wait up for me an would already be off an doing the content we were grouping up for. Than they got pissy with me when I decided I didn't want to stay in they're guild because of it. Another group I joined I would get on at off time when they all were online doing something already an when I went to join up with them they would provide zero information or help with were the fuck they were, so I could rarely actually join them or if they did I'd end up showing up an they'd be in a dungeon like the Sator one an they would leave me sitting on the outside of it for 2 hours while they sat in it killing mobs farming matz while I twiddled my thumbs outside an shoved them up my ass cause yah fun group content with toxic unhelpful community.
Simple I tried like this game but the community for this game is just to dam toxic or people are just to unwilling to help allow others to join their existing group even when they spout BS an say they're recruiting.
This idea for teleport in capitals with a huge cooldown (8-24 hours) I tried to push to Henrik with no result so far. And that is the reason why I dropped my first stronghold in the jungle, because to get anywhere to interact with players you need to ride for 30-60 minutes every single day. While naked teleports would help alot. Also there is a cool system in Black Desert that allow you to auto-ride to a place. If same system for spiritwalking would be in MO2, then people could at least choose a city to go and go afk while their characters would fly to the place in the ghost form.
I agree Mostly everything u said but the auto run part. I like this game because it not a handheld game. Why would one not want to do it themself.
@@samuels1404 I mean only auto-ghosting to a town instead of holding W for 15-60 minutes while dodging rocks. Anyway nothing can happen to you during this time, you cannot lose anything. And with auto-ghosting you would be able to just go afk for this time.
Not fly but if it walked over water and terrain automatically but at a slightly slower speed than manual that would be great QoL. You can still be banished this way.
I had a similar idea where it included a 15-30 minute cast time essentially to transport places (with nothing equipped). Still requires time involved to get places but allows people to feel like their time isn't wasted as much.
@@willoughby7540 casting for a long time might be dangerous. Even if you will not be kicked for afk, you might get bombed by a griefer.
Your points are spot on. I agree with almost all of it, albeit some ideas of my own here and there. A great analysis. I'm in more than 3k hours into the game as a solo and I'm loving it non-stop. Props to all the community members like you and the devs for giving us this gem of a game.
Edit: I also wanted to add that the goodwill of the company, Star Vault and Henrik as CEO is just very unique. For a game that was modeled from start to be a subscription based game, they held back on that revenue just because they wanted to deliver a more polished product. With the launch of UE5, there are technical difficulties that sometimes make the game unplayable and Henrik just stated that they will refund that time to the players.
I think most people simply overlook how much goodwill the company has.
Couldn't have summarised the pro's and con's of MO2 better, great video as always demo 👍
I am at the very beginning of the vid, but the devs actually added 4 dungeons from the launch: Necro, Ultimeki (same update), Fabernum Sewers and Morin Khur Sewers.
I only count necro as real content, ultimeki is a fancy poi
and as for sewers, those are tutorial zones in my eyes
Totally agree with the leveling mages.. the system is just broken. It should be organic, where you level spells as you use them, like in Skyrim. The problem is that the fumble rates are all out of wack. At the lowest end of the skill curve for the current spell you're trying to level, you should fumble like 30-50% at most. Right now you fumble like 95% or more.
@15:41 you mention that Mortal encourages player engagement by accident, and I'd actually like to push the argument that its intentional. I think the secrets, the nebulous crafting, the boss books, and the brutal environment all pushes players to work together by design. Henrik's whole reason for having a singular character in MO2, however much I despise it, is to push you to work with people. But that's just my $.02
Some kind of Spiritism portal where people could go and its like a magical area anyone can get to and interact, make deals (but not trade, keeping regional value), shit talk etc would be nice. Like a spirit lounge. When you leave you're dumped where you entered. Make it unusable in combat. Would really boost player interaction a tonne I reckon.
Cool to see a in-depth review of MO2.
All i know is MO1, still got flasbacks..
Towers made of human skeletons, AQ hacks, Corrupt GM's, nodeline insta deaths, supermolva's and exploding horses.
But epic, glorious and rewarding if u learn to fight, sorrow and a dread when u know not.
MO 2 looks great and all we have theorycrafted for years is in there (like Henrick was silently listening like a Santa or a spy!)
The launch killed me, they made me mash a button that wasn't even working for 2 days.
Good review, appriciate.
I use to joke that I'm was gaming back in the days before Pong was called Pong. I have literally played more MMOs over the last few decades than I can honestly remember the names of. Most of them I started while they were in the testing phase still and not even in a production release state. But with that said, I'm still very new to MO2. I don't even have a month of game play in.
Some of the things I have noticed and I speak only in regards to Haven.
1. The game introduces you to the concept of book learning, but doesn't tell you there is a library where you can purchase books to read and learn. That library is off the beaten path in town and is literally by itself in the section of town it is in. This approach to learning skills feels like it was pulled directly from EVE Online.
2. The magic system simply doesn't work in Haven. I say this because there is two critical books you need that aren't available in Haven to learn. Those being scribbing and skimming. Which doesn't make sense as there are spells you can scribe to a spellbook at Haven yet don't have access to scribe to add them.
3. The combat system is both simple and difficult. Simple because the defense and attack are very straight forward. Difficult because the angle of said block or strike is dependent on the orientation of you mouse at any given second. A block to your left will instead become a block from above simply because your mouse was orientated a hair off when you initiated the block. Same with attacks. Maybe with a ridiculous amount of practice and muscle memory you can get this down pat. But man ....
4. Crafting system is hit or miss. Same with harvesting resources. It almost feels like you throw a bunch of stuff into a mixer and hope for the best. And most of the time, what comes out is useless. And the number of skills you need to fully harvest a resource to its full potential output is mind numbing.
5. Animal management needs tweaking. Your game crash, and you get left in the game for more than a minute. Alot can happen to you or your pet in that time. I've already lost a number of pets to incidental death just due to my own mistakes or crashing out of the game.
6. Leaving the game. In a safe spot, you leave in 10 seconds. Not so safe spot, you got an extended bullseye on your fed head waiting for the game to let you leave. It is almost like the game wants you to lose all your #$%^.
I have a question for you: how is that you devote so much time to a digital entertainment? How do you sustain yourself and your familly?
I had gotten laid off the week this game came out and the new job I got is very seasonal so I'm either super busy or not busy at all
Really good review. I hope SV takes notes! Love this game but it needs some precision work to continue to stay alive and thrive now.
Agree with most of what you said. I think pretty much every system in the game is flawed in one way or another. However the biggest issues have to do with the inability to play solo without having huge restrictions on what you can do. As well as the downtime betweeen all the fun things you can do in the game. PvP is super fun ,but it sux to grind rocks for 1 week as casual player ,only to lose your steel set in 10 seconds after you left town. The balance between the fun moments and the downtime between them needs to be reworked. You touched on this as well, it takes literal hours just in preparation for big fights. Other issues in the game are the complete lack of varierty of armors and customisation, theres like 5 armor sets in the game and the only difference is the texture on top. The Pets are OP af, pets should only used as support, not your main damage dealer or tank. Animations are terrible, Melee fighting sux with all the spinning and combining that with the lag and weird animations it makes for a horrible experience. If you fight someone and he hits you with his sword from 10 meters away while not even looking at you, thats mo2 melee combat in a nutshell. Armor not mitigating any of the magic damage is just shocking, how did they think thats ok?? Weapon balance is completely off, you have 2 bows you can use mounted in the game, both have same dps except 1 of them requires only half the stamina, how does that make any sense? still no fix after 2 years.
crying noob
@@notreallyotaku9904 thanks for reminding me about the toxic community issue as well lol
This is great! I just started playing a week ago and loving it. I definitely want to get in with a competitive company. Any ideas on where to look for people that mainly play is U.S. time zones in the evenings?
With 8760 hours in a years time you've essentially spent half your life playing this game over the past year and half.... That's nutty.... Took me like 3+ years playing Rust until I hit 4k and I felt like a little goblin.
Correct. I got laid off the week this game came out by pure coincidence.
as much as I get frustrated about Henrik, Sebastian and the coding team do a very good job with what they've done.
There are a lot of frustrations as well, especially with them still ironing out the UE5 upgrade, but I always have to remind myself that it is indeed a small indy team
Even something as simple as pressing priest telling you which priest it will take you to would be huge QoL improvement. Next level would be auto-ghost where it takes the fastest route to a destination and auto-jumps priests when possible. Writing that gave me EVE online vibes.
your videos are dope, reason why i got into playing this fun ass game. Yee haw
So about the macros and tedium, that was a big discussion and it actually landed in favor of people say they want MORE tedium. A concrete example I can give you is training dummies not leveling your skills up passed 25. "You should go out in the world and level". The game never had a shot from the get go because of the people Henrik kept around.
The moment with multiple characters still questionable. Yeah, you can try multiple builds with multiple characters. But reputation will stop working, and it actually work right now already, and will work way better after release when there will be way less alts. But this moment could be fixed by system like in Black Desert where no matter the character people can see your acc name. But the main thing is professional tree. With many free alts for everyone game will face the same problem as MO1 - there will be close to 0 interactions and the dead market, because people will be able to do everything themselves instead of interacting with each other and actively use broker. And even now we can see difference in prices that went way higher without tons of alts farming afk.
Well, we have to char slots now, so we'll see!
I'm really curious what you mean by it being the best game created "by accident" having played MO1, it feels like it has been years of sculping :D
I don’t want to be that guy, but Planetside 2 does something really similar, just in a Sci-fi setting. Granted, it doesn’t look nearly as immersive as Mortal Online 2, but I thought it was worth mentioning because I LOVED that game.
so what you are saying... is that EVERY DAY... you played for about 8 hours straight... for a year and a half..... WTF dude?!
Getting laid off the day mo2 launches will do that to ya
@@Devildog0491 Damn dude still that's a lot lol. But if you love a game you love it I suppose... Im not really one to talk.. i got a few titles with over 1k myself.. but never so many on a single title
Good to see you again. I look forward to updated videos and builds.
4000 hours in a year and a half? bro, thats more than a full time job with no time off. Respect.
Great video, summed up perfectly.
Great video. Personally, I couldn't get into the game even if I wish otherwise. The time commitment required to play the game prevents a lot of people from joining. The time to learn skills, the time to farm ressources, the time to travel to and from an objective, and the time to prepare for whatever you want to do. Especially when the time spent on those activities is almost purely wasted as there's little to no gameplay during them. I can't justify spending 30min in travel time and just watch a character ride a horse with zero decision making in a play cession that I would want to be an hour long. The game doesn't respect your time and as such it's with frustration that I have to categorize it as just another live service game I won't play for being a chore/ a second job rather than a pastime. Also slight tangent, yes, having to group in a multiplayer game is amazing and brings back for me the nostalgia of the early widespread internet gaming era, but there ought to be some safeguards for small groups or solo players. I believe that the solution to win can't be "just have more people" as it is now in many a case. It's not a question of preventing big alliances, it's about creating a space where smaller groups /solo players can interact with each other meaningfully. In a game where you depend on other players so heavily, small groups and solo players can't prevent the community feel of the game. In any case, I will hopefully continue to look at it every couple of months for the next few years of development until it becomes welcoming to a different type of player.
I believe alot of the time wasting statements can be circumvented if you have multiple people working on the same objective such as farming resources and getting gold the only thing that is truly time consuming is learning skills but even then your main skills come from just playing the game this games takes so much less time to max a character than other mmos honestly but then again your completely right about travel time and such maybe a portal system would be pretty good for this game
How though the only skills that take time to grind are the newer magic schools which are completely optional and I agree they are ridiculously stupid to have to grind out but everything else in the game even mining for Matts and stuff aren't that time consuming if you have more than just yourself working together
@SpaceNick__ dude, I can put a macro on that is supposed to spam cast spells and get my elementalism from 1-100 leave it casting for 12 hours and not be maxed.
This macro is casting the same spell over, and over, and over, and over. Its mind numbing terrible "gameplay" if you can even call it that. Keep in mind this is far and above the most efficient way to do it and borderline exploity. They expect players to do this shit out the gate because your character is basically useless without certain skills leveled up.
Don't tell this isnt tedious for the sake of tedium. It is either 1. Complete incompetent design or 2. A ploy to keep server population up.
Either are shitty.
Yeah that's the shitty parts I hate about the skills and I agree they suck I just don't think the rest of the game is too grindy you can literally hop on a day one or two character and do dungeon raids with your friends if you play right is all I'm saying
I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that. It's a two-fold problem: 1. the time issue: it is not a problem that developing skills (like scribing lol) and grinding resources and moving around and building takes time, even if I think it takes too much time in my opinion, the problem is that it isn't gameplay and not easily achievable in shorter play sessions: you don't put your character on a rock to farm granite and think to yourself "wow this is fun/interesting/exciting/etc.", it's a chore ; you don't watch your character ride a horse for 30min and think it's a complex/complicated/interesting problem to solve, it's a chore ; you don't think "wow grinding for hundreds of gold just for the spells I wanted to build a character/buy crafting ressources" is interesting or a fun problem to solve, it's a chore. Now the time it takes is rather irrelevant to the point, it's a significant portion of the time spent on the game and is there simply to occupy me for longer, I don't need that in my life, I'd want to chat with players while doing some problem solving (only interesting shared activity really is combat in this game and its a shame it's such a low percentage of gameplay time). It would be immensely more satisfying to have to deal with risk and other problems while farming/moving/etc. but there really isn't anything to do.
2. the player interactions issue: as a solo player, I stand undue risk of being the victim of a larger group of people. It isn't an interesting problem to solve for a group of 5 players to kill a solo player. It isn't an interesting problem to solve as a solo player to be killed by a group of 5 players. Now, in my view, what would be an interesting problem to solve, is to have to interact with sometimes friendly or hostile players of similar group size. Dungeons limiting access could be implemented. A group of 20 players don't need to have access to easier dungeons made to be experienced solo/duo, and vice versa. A group of 3 to 7 players don't interact against each other the same way a group of 20 do, and don't need the same gameplay either and don't stand to gain interesting interactions from each other.
3. So what would make sense? to have the opportunity and the reason to group in different manners, with different players, for various activities. Would communities of different sizes be a negative impact on the overall sense of shared experience present in the game? I think it would only make it more interesting as the choices wouldn't be limited to "group or risk not having fun and having no opportunity to win and waste more of your time".
tldr: it's a waste of time if the experience you're having isn't interesting for large portions of the time you invest.
Great video! I hope it will reach Henrik.
In regards of the fast travel, I think this is quite a delicate thing to balance. To me, what almost killed this genre of MMO was the conveniences that were given to the players over the years. Early MMOs the players had to do everything together through interactions. Today you can log in an "MMO", find a group, do a raid, pvp or whatever without having a single direct interaction with another player. It's all automatic for the sake of convenience. And to me these features almost killed the genre .We can't really call games like WoW and FFXIV MMOs when you spend most of the game time in instances.
The players needs to be out in the world for interaction to happen, specially in a game like MO2.
That being said, I do think fast travel could and should be added to MO2. Maybe a mix from the portals in UO and Valheim. I think some school of magic could be able to open portals using runes bound to places, however you can't bring any crafting resource, money and things of value...or something like this. I mean, in the same way the game needs players out there in the world, us players also need to have the time to actually be able to go out in the world. So yeah, we need some fast travel system.
I agree with you that fast travel can ruin MMOs
A world loses it's immersion when people can start avoiding interacting with the world by not traveling through it.
Take Eve online. One of the most successful MMOs ever and still running. Travel is tedious AF, but there are ways around it. Random gates like Wormholes or helloff expensive like Jump technology.
A guild shouldnt be able to get Mercs/allies support on the other side of the map in a second. It should be a campaign.
If your guild wants to contest the Sator Dungeon, then you will have to make it a quest, where the group moves there for a week. Live and stock up there for a while. The entire map shouldn't be accisble with the click of a button.
Fast travel shrinks the world and kills the game
As far as the server tech goes, and the massive open world with no loading screens and massive battles. Darkfall Online did it first and then MO1 was a competitor a year later however neither MO1 or MO2 has ever had the population Darkfall did when it was at its peak. But even Darkfall recognized that it needed a NA and EU server even though it originally launched with just one server. The idea of a one server for the world seems like a great idea but when you have this style of action combat it's just impossible to make "fair" for all players involved.
imo, DF was never the same after the server split. I played from beta and until end of 1.0 and I really think that the time before the splitting of servers was the best. That said, DF did not have the extreme ping-sensitive combat that MO2 has.
It was just such a bad time when half the players just left for another server and the community was left in pieces. Missed my boys in CAPSULE / Kill Cult :(
I can explain the heavy armor system. Its because increasing the stam use was to hard to balance. They tried it a LONG LONG LONG time ago. It was either to harsh or not an effect at all.
False. Try to use a bow that's too high str and tell me if it's viable because of stam usage.
@@Devildog0491 How is it false, when the truth is they as in SV could not balance it correctly back in the beta of MO1. I was there I remember it quite clearly. And we even had a joke in Aegis Imperium, "Seb is bad at math."
Fantastic review, one of the best ones i have seen.
Well back in the days we had Planet Side 2 1000 vs 1000 without lags, 10-12 years ago.
Another thing i don't like is the book passive skills system blocking your progression for days and you don't pay an heavy sub to sit and wait.
Another global server game that is as hardcore as MO2 is Eve online. I think you will like it.
And, btw, it holds 30k players online at the same time.
all instanced
Lol 400 players in real time no other game on the market.... And i was thinking EVE online multiplies that 400 by a lot and is arround for YEARS in all fairness i would not like TIDI in these types off games tho :P
I'm the guy that messaged you on discord about joining your guild the other day. Thanks for the video.
My MO2 experience:
100h Haven. 1h Myrland. Getting ganked over and over by max geared players outside Tindrem. Asked 3 guilds to join. 2 responded with: No noobs. The other one didn't even respond. Great game 10/10 would never play again. Albion has more skill related combat.
You spent 100h in haven lol? F to doubt. And even if you did that would tell me not to let you in my guild lol
Im really hoping they try to market with some streamers with the next content patches to try and grow the community to where we need an NA server.
my problem is now, i dont know what i should play in mo2. thursar, veela, orghmir, human, they all have their own meta gifts, its hard to decide between ultimate running speed against ultimate strength etc... its so hard to decide, even magic vs melee, i dont know what i should do
Welcome back DemoMan, Love from KOTO.
7:00 dealing and living with challenges from huge ambition like global - will make this game great. keep going, dont improve instantly over evolving above the challenge
MO2 is a social experiment!
I believe UE5 just ate way to much time, maybe now they will get content out faster
Been waiting for a while to try MO2 as I was playing mortal online right up until the announcement of MO2. Star vault was a dumpster fire then and I haven't really heard much commentary on them since. Loved the first game though and got mega addicted to it, joined quite a few different "groups" and social circles in my years of playing it lol.
We really need melee skills next.
"I believe Henrik is suffering from that."
Community chatter might be a lot less negative if the suffering actually showed through at all in his streams.
I really wanted to start playing a while ago but didn't like the prescription as i already pay for ESO
This is one of these games i want to play, but knowing how much i hate pvp will never take a step into this game. PvE players can be toxic but tend to have very little effect on another player, pvp on the other hand can get ugly real quick. It's not for me so being able to at least look at them through video is kinda fun, seeing people who know what they are doing.
Demoman we really miss your builds and guides!!!
Your builds and comparisons are the best in whole UA-cam! Still waiting the "ninja turtle" hahah 🙌
Thank you for you service in the MO Universe
Finally some new content from you.
Honestly 30mins to arrange and get ready is pretty good i was expecting you to say worse, yeah 4-5 hours sounds bad
A nice balanced video with constructive criticism 👍
Do you think on a balance standpoint that there would be more of a balance and variety of builds of the quality of bows scaled off of dex instead of str. Like when is it necessary to kinda disregard realism for a better game state. One of the first things I notice when I started playing. I feel like it bottle necks footy play style.
You are completely right... This game beed more fast update, especially as locations, dungeons, or just big caves to explore without bosses... This is the most immersive mmo right? Well, some good exploration & LORE items would be good. Like old books you can find in various chests, to delive to an ancient imperial librarian in Tindrem, or outpost watch towers in the countryside.. maybe a couple of isolated farms with miniquest like "bring me a stack of crops" or "those cheetah are killing my cows, bring me 5 cheetah furs and i will give you this money"... NPC in cities that just say a short phrase like "have you visited our Sewers in Morin Khur? My cousin said there are huge rats lurking in the dept of those caves.. he almost got eaten by them!"
.. or maybe some random NPC roaming the streets in Caravans that you can attack or just trade with those NPC for black-market-like items... Sarducaan caravans, or meet a Kallard hunter in the snow.. maybe a Sheevra thief on the side of the road... 😅 for make this world and lore alive.
I think my biggest pet peeve is I hate wasting resources and or time. Like for crafting, why would I make 3 million shitty swords just to destroy them all. If I spend time making something I want it to be used for something. Even if it’s just a training weapon or a cheap weapon for some peasant or an army of orcs or goblins or something.
Nice Video Brother
The new Unreal Engine when in North America Civil War come out I don't think it will ever come out to be perfectly Fair
What OP pets is this man talking about? :))
Other than that, the review is well balanced and fair.
I am one of the few people that plays this game solo, don't let anyone tell you it's impossible.
well spoken, can't wait to finish this video then say my input one sec heheheh
Oh one more thing. On the topic of getting players ready to do things. Never run a major fleet op in Eve online have you? Players in most MMOs including this one are abput as prepared for any operation as a toddler with getting ready for bed. If you train your group to be ready when you say be ready it cuts the runup time drastically. I have straight up left players who were not ready when i said roll out time was X and they show up at X+5.. well you knew the time thats on you. Ask your boss why he is firing you for showing up late.
Who are you grandstanding too?
You realize those are organic fights that include dozens of individual groups right?
@Devildog0491 grandstanding? I'm afraid there is a breakdown in communication here. I am not grandstanding just observing and making a statement.
Ok, as someone with a bit of coding knowledge, you are way off base to compare Star Citizen server tech to SV.
Dont get me wrong, SV have done one hell of a job with the networking code on MO. Their tech IS impressive.
But what the Star Citizen team did, assuming that their demos are just half as good in the real world execution, it goes far beyond SV tech.
And this is to be expected. Star Citizen has a HUGE development team behind it and some of their techies are insanely gifted. Like an entire team of Farmer Johns working away.
And Star Citizen has had no loading screens for a very long time now as well.
But the beauty of the Star Citizen tech is more in line with streamlining, getting rid of the traditional “node” structure and revamping how all of that is done.
It is absolutely revolutionary in nature. It impressed me so much I upgraded my opinion of Star Citizen from “pipe dream” to “glorified tech demo”. Hell, one day it might even BE a game.
How is it different? Henrik has talked about how their replication layer has caught and kept huge fights going in the past and the SC demo is literally 3 hubs crossed by a replication layer
@@Devildog0491 it is different in execution. You couldn’t process the same scale as Star Citizen with the same tech.
Even if SV were to implement every single continent they can think of, it wouldn’t even come close to the scale of just one planet in Star Citizen.
Now all of that scale takes a ton of resources and having large amounts of players in various parts of the system while still being able to have that persistence is a challenge I never thought they would overcome (and until I see it happening live and not just as a demo, I will still say they havent overcome it).
They had to take what could be done with current tech and rebuild it in such a way that you dont need a super computer for each node to be able to do it. IF it works, they really did do something special.
But once again, I will only really believe it when I see it. I just didn’t agree with you that it is the same thing.
@@Devildog0491 Don't tell me you you don't have huge freezes when you go through "supposedly non existent" node lines since UE5. You don't have that kind of thing in SC. And the playable map,even not counting planet ground, is sooo much bigger. Good video by the way.
@ImperiomSineFine I mean, I dont have freezes idk what you want me to say
Great video demoman, really well articulated and couldn’t agree with you more
There is already visible effect of lack of new players. If you look at the market and lack of basic materials for sale only high end stuff. New players and casuals usually are the ones who provide the market with basic materials but now you cant buy most of the basic stuff. Ofcourse groups and guilds can provide mats for themselves but the playerdriven market is dry.
@27:38 god this is what I have to keep reminding myself whenever I want to come back lmao
I think you're review was a little "too" fair, but well done. I've never seen clips of MO2 that looked so clean before, what were you running at?
Max settings 4K
Everybody should just move to Reign of Guilds.
I wonder if a 1080ti can run this game.
I had same thought on the point of ele been really easy to get, compared to mo1 where to get all spells you would gonna have to go on a quest around the whole myrland and sarduca with its mysteries on how you get them
Why doesn't Henrik play the game, isn't it the game of his dreams? 😏
I can agree with that xD Party Hard
this is basically a review of every full loot sandbox mmo ever made.
mortal online 2 certainly isn't the best in the genre.
If this game canned the full loot nonsense and simply let enemies loot whatever is in your backpack including gold, I'd be playing it right now. But at this point in my life, I really don't want to deal with losing the gear I'm wearing even if it is relatively easy to replace. And this is coming from a pvp perspective.
Dont play tarkov, counter strike, dayz, or any other game similar. You lose your gear in all of them.
Nice review, Mortal is a great game but you wouldn't state what you said about magic and net code if you would ever play Darkfall. Game was lacking in a lot of aspects but magic, net code and pvp wise it was wayyyy ahead of Mortal Online 2. Seamless world big fights without any issues with large numbers and magic that was just spectacular and way better and faster than mortal.
eve is global?
the arbitrary comments out of context sound like you could be talking about Tarkov, and I find that very interesting
Great Review.
Im a new player about 200 hours in , im having a blast, so much fun. The only downsides ive experienced is zerging , which if they were to change it might take away form the game idk.
So anyone says you have to join a guild , i still havent joined one i have been in a cuple guilds discords and thier are so many downsides to guilds im trying to avoid it. Well see
I played from Japan and it made the game way harder even in PVE..
good ass video, pretty much nailed having the most based view of this game.
Sight i like the game -- ower 600 hours in -- but what is werry frustrating to me is constantly hear that they want more rewenue and steady growth of players. Then they shut the additional rewenue streams down by saing you wont be able to sub for the game trough steam and eppic. Basicaly going if you like the game pay us directly trough our pages or dont play😞. We rather hawe 0 money and loose players than have atleast 70% cash from aditional sources. 😐 -- its like we want cash for dewelopment but some cash is not good enoug for us😐
After Necromancy did it right, Elementalism acquisition was soooo soooo bad. Of course doesn't help when they let exploiters exploit dungeon so long people don't even want to go in. And THANK YOU, so tired of people saying MO2 is better game without fast travel--it's not. There is no MMO in existence that doesn't have fast travel. Any open pvp game I played, even ones with sieging had fast travel.
The scale of the magic is cool in this game. Being a turret caster where you charge up the spell and release in place, with no movement powers yet, no instants, no CDs to have spells that can be stronger but can only be used occasionally, not even making magic use some of the cool reactive mechanics of melee so you can't just cast and forget is bad, and I think only the water ward in elementalism is made to function like that. This makes makes MO2 mages ultimately the most boring style magic I've played in a game, feeling a bit worse than vanilla WoW except that you have to aim, know how to run, parry, or stand up on things to not let people get to you. And until walls in elementalism there were no cool feeling of pulling a group of enemies and blasting them down without exploiting (ahem, now called safe spotting) so they couldn't to you. Now some you can fireball a couple times and pull them into a powerful wall spell. Still kind of boring. But it is what it is.
What an insult to say one of the best games but I think it's on accident...
I know you've heard Henrik explain his vision a multitude of times. This isn't an accident. It is as he wants it.
I agree with a lot of your commentary but obviously not the accident part. It's a bit insane to describe the pros and cons purposefully built into this game and then say it's an accident.
I haven't played this game since just before UE5 due to the amount of time it takes to play. But every patch I see it becoming more of what Henrik has described he wants it to be. Like you said, the time investment is a big con for us that have lives in the real world. But it's intentional and it makes the game what it is. Sure it could be more arcade-ish and only with a few minutes could jump in and play...but that would completely change it. It would lose something significant.
haven't played in a few months because of my ping. love the game but its hard to fight competitively with bad ping
Great Review, miss seeing you around. Hopefully SV will do something that brings you back in full.
High quality review. Thank you.
Superb video! I hope Henrik finds it.
Just started last weekend. The tediousness almost lost me. Might still.
It’s a cool game for sure though. I just don’t want to waste so much time basically doing nothing significant or fun.
Just got into a guild and that has really made a huge diff. I would have quit if I didn’t.
surprised you used mage leveling as an example for tedium instead of taming lol grinding taming is soul destroying. atleast with a mage, even without macros you can just sit mostly afk spamming a spell with 1 button and watch tv while doing it, taming you have no such luxury.
It is impressive that they can do 400 player combat but I would not say it is unique to mortal. Albion have had bigger battles and EVE have had way bigger battles. The way the combat works out is different in mortal however but I think a lot of that has to do with them doing a few things client side.
Same for the way it plays, it exists in a few games other than Mortal. I haven't played mortal for a good 3 months now but I always ALWAYS read on what's new. It's the most interesting and actually cool game out there to me. I wouldn't mind a bit more convenience features but they also shouldn't overdo it, making things easy makes the game modern and in many ways really bad.
Player count is hardly the only factor here. The two you marked as having larger battles are essentially top down LoL quality graphics and a spreadsheet simulator.
Nothing is at this level of quality, immersion, both in first person and with these numbers of players
@@Devildog0491 Only Albion is top down, and the graphics are generally not the limiting factions but rather the CPU and that depends more on the amount of players, visible equipped items and other dynamic objects close by rather than the perspective (in a top down game the characters don't only exist on your screen but a rather stupid big area outside as well). Also generally the further away a character is in a MMO like these the fewer calculations per second are done for them.
The real problem for something like this is either way not the client but the servers and for that it matters even less what the perspective is.
I agree though that MO2 is more immersive but I'm not sure if I would say it has higher quality.
Eve is also top town technicial
WIPE HYPE!
Are they actually wiping? I'd come back if they wipe.
@@protestthebread1046 If my comment gets 100 likes then MO2 gets wipe.
@@ccdee89 I'd love a wipe.
EVE Online do all of those since many years.
Not all those things. EvE Online is made up of nodes connected through warp points. MO2 is truly one seamless open world with functioning real time action combat. There are a lot of similarities but MO2 is a much more advanced game in that aspect. Star Citizen is trying to do that, be an EvE Online in a MO2 style enviroment, but failing miserably so far of course.