CASE CLOSED!! Billy the Kid's Ears PROVE His Identity Better Than Fingerprints!!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Brushy Bill Roberts claimed to be Billy the Kid in 1950 before being dismissed by NM Governor TJ Mabry. Nevertheless many people today still believe Brushy Bill was the legendary outlaw. Michael examines the one part of the human anatomy that is, in the words of some experts, more reliable than fingerprints to figure out once and for all...Was Brushy Bill Roberts REALLY Billy the Kid?
#billythekid #brushybillroberts #evidence #ears #johnmiller #caseclosed
All you have to do is look at the jawline. Brushy Bill has a square jawline and Billy the Kid's is rounded. These traits do not change over time. Good job on the ears as well.
You are quite right Sir......but there's so, so much more to the story. All in good time....thanks for watching.
@@MankindMediaLLC No he is not right. You people don't know any about how a face ages!
What? You don't think a man's jaw looks more square as he ages? Brushy has no teeth. You don't think that changes a persons facial conture. Also, Billy has his mouth open which also changes his face.
Ears don’t change. That’s science. Case closed.
In photos of young brushy bull he has the same jawline, so much for that.
Im definitely convinced Bill Roberts (BRUSHY) IS NOT THE REAL BILLY THE KID!!! GREAT VIDEO
I remember seeing ID cards from other countries in some of my old law enforcement training years ago and the photos showed each individual with their head slightly turned so you could see their ears. The instructors pointed out that this was done because there are no 2 ears that are alike. Your comparison demonstrates this concept impeccably. Case closed, Brushy is not Billy.
My opinion is that he's not dead, for sure, but standing in front of a saloon, he just may be a few sheets to the wind, which causes his eyes to be half shut and not in focus. Thanks for the ear comparison! Love hearing your podcast and all the information you impart to us!
If I had been alive back then, and had to live the tough life that these people had to live, I'd make it a point to stay three sheets to the wind 24/7! 😂
@@winkie51 - the documentation of the chain of custody and claim that the photo was personally presented by Bill well establishes the fact that it’s not a death photo.
Great job ! There are finger or thumb prints on the original tin type. However , No one living today would ever know if it was the carelessness of the photographer during exposure or Billy's while the liquid on the tin type was still damp from the process used at that time. And no fingerprints were never recorded from The Kid. I got my information from WildWest magazine, Shooting Billy The Kid .
I do have a morbid fascination with Victorian post mortem photography and I can see how the tin type could be taken as one by the eyes, they do look a little off or glazed over. But I disagree (in my opinion only) that this is one, firstly it would be impossible for it to be used in a wanted photo/sketch if it hadn't have already been taken. Secondly standing still in one of those frames for so long would be very uncomfortable if not outright painful and that glazed look "could" be a look of discomfort at the least without trying to express it to the camera. Just my thoughts
From what I have been told, no wanted poster with an image of Billy the Kid was made before his death, since then, thousands have been made and sold. The notice in the newspaper by Lew Wallace offering the $500 reward was actually the only reward poster made prior to his death. BTW, in my opinion, there is no way on earth that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid.
@@Bumper776 Oh wow, well, that got me up to speed. Thanks, I didn't realise that.
@@Bumper776 As for Brushy Bill and Billy the Kid I'm in your camp
I respectfully disagree. Years ago, I did a side by side, split face comparison of Brushy, Bill, and his younger days versus the authenticated image of Billy. They matched. I did both sides of the face and everything lined up. I’m convinced that Billy, the kid and brushy Bill were one and the same
That’s fair, although nothing about Billy’s chin, ears, blonde hair, or clear blue eyes match Brushy. Just facts.
Not just the ears, but Brushy had a very square chin and Billy had a very rounded chin and long face.
I was indeed a Brushy Bill believer but you can't argue with the science. Thank you for your good work sir.
Thank you Raymond. There's more....but to me, this was the easiest way to get past the rest of the confusion about Brushy. As noted, I think he was a fascinating guy....I'm more interested in him by not being Billy the Kid than if he was. I don't know if there are details or evidence of how this whole thing with he and Morrison started, but if there are I'd love to find them.
Smart man to change a belief when confronted with irrefutable evidence. Most people are so attached to their beliefs they won't change them no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary.
I knew it! Thanks for proving it!
Thanks....this has been known for awhile but of course, people believe what they want to. Thanks for listening!
Right on!
definitely not Billy the kid I think he was recently identified as Murphy from the Roughriders🤠👍
Only problem is it’s two different people. It doesn’t take forensics to point out two different jaw structures, two different cheekbones, two different eyebrow bone structure. That was not Billy the kid case closed.
Way to go on your new UA-cam broadcast style. Movin’ on up, and doing a fine job!
Thanks! Still working my way up but this seems to be a good first step.
Not to mention that Brushy Bill was 20 yrs younger then Billy the kid, I don't know much about Brushy Bill but it sounds like he was just a fan of Billy the kid or wanted attention and decided to make up that he was Billy. I was also thinking if he had lived and changed his name and flee the country, I don't think it wouldn't matter to him how much time had pass, he wouldn't want to reveal himself cuz he would be afraid that the law might still try to take him in.
End of story
Zoom in to the ears. I did on the pic in a kindle book. It is hair rolling up. Maybe the picture I had was a bad copy but it was definitely hair on his left ear. After seeing this I am back to could be either way.
You are dead-on. Not the same person. it's amazing to me that people who loved stories of The Kid wanted him so badly to be this crochety old bastard who tried to claim his fame.
I think you've nailed it. A lot of people just WANT Billy to have survived and so they'll look for anyone to pin their hopes on. I'm not convinced that Garrett killed him....at least not in the way he said....but the search goes on.
Great! Case closed. Thank you. I would love that Billy the kid would have lived out his life, but sadly Brushy Bill can´t be him.
For the record my grandad had enourmous ears and i have seen pictures of him as a small child with little baby ears.
Your ears obviously grow from the time you're an infant....you're smarter than this, right? They do not grow after puberty. Just read the article that I cite. This is simple stuff...no one is making up studies about ear size to disprove an little known fraud who died in 1950 at 71 years old. You must be able to comprehend this.....
Well you got me sold.... And we all got my grandfather's ears and we all have detached lobes too but the ones that don't they got the other family genetics so you got me sold I believe this 100%, bushy bushy guy you got to go 🤗
Something I watched said that Brushy first told the lawyer he was Billy's brother, could that be why the close comparison to the photos and him knowing things bout Billy others wouldn't.
It would need to be a brother unknown to history as Billy's known brother Joe is well documented to have lived and died in Colorado.
@@MankindMediaLLC TY!! I always wondered what happened to him.
even Bonney's real brother kept much more quiet about his brother known to all and for good reasons. This Brushy may not have taken into account the younger relatives, children or friends of those that were dispatched by the real Bonney or his Amigos. And that caution was taken by his brother, only as next of kin. A real Billy still alive would have had to be even more quiet about even in old age, and there is always too those who like the coward who killed James or Lennon and any celebrities ever, who would have loved to become famous or infamous as "the (coward) man who killed for a second time the man that Pat Garret already killed", decades earlier and reaped as much fame from it already.
I dont think it's a death pic. It might be but I doubt it. Everything sags when we get old!
I came to the same conclusion that Brushy Bill was absolutely not Billy due to the ear lobes. Additionally, blinking uses 26 muscles around the eyes. Billy's eyes appear relaxed but wary and very nonaggressive, yet nonsubmissiive--both survival traits. Brushy Bill's eyes were squinted and aggressive using those 26 muscles, like trying to be a bad guy--not a look that inspires confidence as a trusted leader, which Billy surely was. Don Blankenship aerospace engineer
Good insight Sir...
All we have to do now is prove who he is since everyone in the Lincoln county war it's been accounted for except one and that's just the Evans and brush your bill is certainly not 100 years old. In 1951 if he was just here and he would have been 98 years old. Unfortunately though he was definitely there and they're all accounted for except for one two if you count Billy which I do I believe Billy got some of the reward even. It doesn't matter if possible is Billy the kid or not the evidence is conclusive to me that Billy the kid got away I mean look at it this way Pat Garrett shot the wrong Man twice. He wrote a book where he made Billy the kid a saint which proves that he lies as well and to that that on their deathbed both deputies with him said they needed to clear their conscience and that they lied for their boss because they said it was Billy the kid and it absolutely was not. When you consider Billy six cents and his ability to survive trap after trap after trap I would say he would survive that trap as well to me the evidences overwhelming that Billy the kid was not killed there. Like I said when Pat Garrett got the money from all them towns I would be very surprised if Billy the kid didn't get half of that in a secret meeting. People are going to believe what they want but there's about 50 people that said that Billy the kid survived versus Pat Garrett that said he died to me I'm going to believe the 50 over Pat Garrett. Especially when you consider the 50 people were not outlaws they were law abiding citizens. For lying about shooting Billy it took 25 years for him to get what he had coming to him shot in the back of the head by killer Miller when he was urinating. I think Pat Garrett was a good man okay well Billy the kid with no better no worse than any of the rest and Billy's love was Kin to pat Garrett. I am not going to bed now Pat Garrett anymore though for letting Billy the kid go because I mean all he did was kill people that killed friends of his that murdered friends of his. Big casino which was Pat Garrett's nickname would have let little casino which was Billy the kids nickname go of that I have no doubt. But like I said the one thing that convinces me and should convince even the most hardened skeptic is both deputies on their deathbed said they needed to clear their conscience and get it off their chest they lied for their balls and said it was Billy the kid when it was not to me a dying man is not going to lie.
In a, book I read some cold case detectives had Jeff Miller in Arizona exhumed. He also claimed to be Billy the kid. There is a picture of his skull in the grave. There are the same buck teeth. There are gunshot wounds that healed that match where Garrett allegedly shot Billy. The University of Arizona was helping then suddenly calmed up. They found something. There's a lot of tourist money involved for communities where this history is all they have. So I get it. Whether Billy lived or died that night Garrett did kill him, at least the legendary Kid.
@@MankindMediaLLC
I keep hearing that the the tintype said to be Billy the Kid was heavily modified as the original was very damaged once it surfaced. Do you have anything on that?
@@gamersinger5118 just do a search for the CDV from the mid 1880s. Crystal clear and untouched. If anyone tells you that it’s modified, they’re lying to try to prove their beliefs
Well that sucks!
Michael,
Excellent work as always!! I’ve really enjoyed both your UA-cam channel as well as the podcast. I also enjoyed The final trial of Billy the Kid. I did want to ask about Billy’s top hat from his most famous picture. I’ve heard that Billy preferred a sombrero, not sure if this is true? So where did the top hat come from, and what happened to this hat after he was shot and killed by Pat Garrett? Thank you for all your hard work, it’s been a lot of fun learning about Billy and all his adventures.
Thank you Sir. No one knows for sure that the topcoat was Billy's. It would be common for photographers to carry around a box of props when traveling from town to town. That said, changing out of your regular hat into a prop hat doesn't seem to make much sense. Most reports after 1878 have Billy wearing sombrero.....but where any hat went after July 14, 1881 is unknown. For that matter....why didn't they save his clothes since Garrett said he bought Billy a new suit to be buried in? I never considered that until just now.
I've have been wondering about that too! Also, I read in a comment from a guy that seemed really knowledgeable about Billy (three year old post) that if you blow up the picture you can see a price tag on one of the items of clothing... like he had borrowed it for the photo. He didn't say which item?
Hello Michael,
Did you make mention of Ygenio Salazar in one of your videos, that his great-grandson had been told that Billy fled to Mexico and that the family possibly had some of his letters? I could not find the video.
I don’t recall that being part of an episode of mine. That whole story is definitely a possibility though.
@@MankindMediaLLC Might make a good episode..?
interesting if true I would agree, not sure the pics of the old man is brushy bill all the photos I see of him he appears to have detached ear lobes?
You're not sure if the photos in the video are of Brushy Bill? You mean the exact same photos that Brushy Bill authors and researchers have documented as being him for 70 years?
Could be the hair curling under the ear lobe
Could be...but it looks pretty clear to me that it's not. Others will see it differently
@@MankindMediaLLC I thought the same thing as you but then I seen a colour correction of the same photo and it looks like it is hair but love your channel and thanks for the reply!!!
It's been proven that the tin type picture has been touched up the mouth and chin over the years? Maybe the ears too?
What about the eyebrows of Brushy bill and Billy.. you can see his eyebrows in different pictures of well-known pictures of Billy...? If you're going by pictures alone then it deserves a little closer look and not discounting Roberts so quickly?.. The mystery is not quite solved
Who Roberts was and even Billy .
the ears are irrefutable
The Brushy Backers will just call you a amateur and you don't know what you are talking about and there was a professional photo recognition study in 1990 and they said it was a match between Brushy and Billy.
When you look into the photo comparison, you'll find they left a few key features out to make the match better. Other excuses are that the tintype isn't even of Billy (which seems strange since Brushy supposedly matches it) OR that the tintype is somehow damaged or has errors so it doesn't show Billy's true features....again, strange since the comparison apparently showed a 97% match. For me, the question is long since answered.
@@MankindMediaLLC Hell Yeah! I bought your movie it's was entertaining. I watched it 2 times.
@@attilathehun0 awesome...thank you! If you would, please go and review it on Amazon? It would be a huge help.
@@MankindMediaLLC Will do. Despite a limited budget. A great script, direction and acting.
@@attilathehun0 Thanks again! We really did have a skinny budget, but I'm very happy with what cast and crew were able to accomplish with it. Appreciate you....
well the other possibility is the pic you think is billy really isnt. it may be the guy they buried. if brushy bill was billy then they covered up for him as to get him his amnesty which he deserved
I guess anything is possible if you're willing to believe....
I have seen photos of Brushy with what looks like a detached ear is thier 2 Brushys?? I dont think hes Billy but i have seen the picture.
I don’t know the answer to that. There are lots is suspect pictures of Brushy as people try to prove his story. Who even knows what’s real and what’s not anymore.
im curious why nobody has done facial recognition on the two photos.. computer should be able to tell if its the same person or can at least confirm that it is not..
It’s been done twice
Well it’s obvious billy moved during this picture. People would say that, that’s billy but a ugly picture of him. Is there any chance by his moving and altering his appearance in the tin type would other features of him be distorted also?
anything is possible....
Ha, yup, I'm still a Brushy fan...but, like you say, his life still had to be pretty interesting if he did what he says he did. Or anything close. Looks pretty definitive...but I'll give you 80% on the ears dragging my feet. My only concerns on the ear pics are years and flipflop. And it would be nice to clean up the tin type to eliminate doubt on the dark spots below the ear lobes were it possible, to make sure that's the real contour and not a smudge or some kind of fault in the original process. That contour doesn't look right on either side, looks incomplete or ragged. But ya, bummer. As to that being a death photo...Naa. Though I had a similar thought at one point before closer examination. And raggedness or maybe damage gives it some of that look as well. Good work.
To start from scratch, if it's going to be definative, I'm looking at the pics for computer enhanced smoothing. The Brushy pics seem to have smoothing that make the sideburns nearly disappear. And the tintype has had 'enhancement' to clean up the faded and worn image some compared to other versions with the cracking showing. Have any more versions of them in your collection?
Why not just look at the CDV from about 1884. No enhancements, no changes, no smoothing....nothing. It's the raw image as taken in Sumner in 79 or 80. People want to pretend it doesn't exist because the tintype has been "altered". No worries...forget the tintype....the CDV is the real deal and shows exactly what Billy looked like and that his earlobes are detached. Law enforcement agencies make sure a suspects ears are nearly photographed because they are absolutely unique. As I said, case closed.
Michael, a quick review of other pics of Brushy more from the front shows a more rounded ear lobe contour than the straight depiction shown in your examples. And the degradation of the original tintype is too undefined around the lobes to be significant. Hence: I think it's back to the drawing board and I'll have to side with Brett Hall in his account of facial recognition efforts. If the croquet party pic can be correlated with other potential pics, that may give some light as well. No clue as yet on the other pic claims. But the pics you offer are apples and oranges in my view as they don't line up with other Brushy shots.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is also entitled to the facts...and earlobes do not, will not, never have grown to attach themselves to the face when they were formerly detached. That's it. People can debate all kind of other minute points but that's one thing that will never change...and because of it, Brushy Bill will never be BTK.
@@MankindMediaLLC Michael, I'm detecting some "motivated reasoning" here. I'm simply saying the pics you use to justify the argument are flawed. Other pics of Brushy show a little more rounding but still the low attachment you speak of. It's as if the shots had been overly 'smoothed' or doctored. Frontal shots from various age levels show more. And the lobe comparison to the tin type, which has been played with a lot due to it's poor condition doesn't help that much. The currently accepted version has a known author, and it's not bad. But the lobe region isn't that good regardless. Nor are the folds in the ear.
Well I see what you see . But. I'm looking at a picture of brushy from a straight on capture taken and it appears to be rounded at the bottom and no attached as looking at the side. Also I have two others at young age twenties the look just alike.close to the tin pic
Now I'm a taxidermist been since 1988.
I'm good at picking up on details. pictures taken from different angles loose definition sometimes.old lense camera with bad glass fail miserably .
Again I want say about this man was or was not I don't know. Don't know what article you got there declaring about ears don't change but I have seen in all creation different people animals differ on how the age and change looks and appearances.
Some stay close and hold their looks some just don't. Just take a look at a lot of Hollywood actors that left the seen and why they did not come back. Ears do change and do get larger on certain people's. not everybody ages the same. Stressed life's takes a toll on some.worrring not eating healthy over worked and some just in there genes.
I know a few old men and I know those ears got bigger. They learned a lot they got better at listening.😉
All I can tell you, besides the other research presented, is that an ear surgeon emphatically stated that without plastic or reconstructive surgery, there is no way that the two men are one in the same. I realize other people see things differently, but I try to stick to the facts...and to me anyway, the photographs don't lie. Peace....
They do grow some, otherwise everyone would have only children or teens ears all their lives, and we know adults grow some until the mid-20's or around 30. Also ears can get hairier and even thicker or saggy as the Channel poster had explained, but changing off shape NEVER. Unless by some accident which would cause a deformity maybe in one but not both in the same way. And true to it, not only the ear spiral imprint and edges do stay within shape, but the earlobe which tends to hang even lower with age (as those that want to exaggerate it adding weights or stretching drums as piercers do) do not shift to reattach itself to the jaw, and this particular detail can not go against its very nature, it has been researched by anatomists since more than a century by now.
100% proof right there Brushy was a hoax. Plus Brushy was born in 1879 so he couldn't have been Billy anyway. Great job!!!
They never did look like Billy the kid photo it was a wanted belief
Thus dude be lookin kinda gangsta
Great video and insight. I never believed Brushy was Billy, but this is the nail in the coffin for any doubt I had.
I went back to your Feb 23 video to look at the pic that I thought looked the most like Billy out of all that i've seen. Unfortunately the kid in that pic has ears like Brushy. Oh well,
Thanks.....I never looked closely enough at that one...but I should have. To me this all seems cut and dry, but I'm not certain it'll change anyone's mind. Appreciate you watching!
Did anyone ever suspect Billy had a swollen face after a fight or an allergic reaction causing his left side seem swollen as well as the unrealistic chin feature? I'm asking because I'm curious, not for identification, Ihe was killed by Sherrif Garrett.
Not sure, it could be that or a poorly taken photo.
@@MankindMediaLLC It could be, I really love this channel! I imagine traveling photographers were in a hurry to make a buck. Thanks for answering me!!
Ok first off the tin type is distorted and to me it doesn't look detached the ear is distorted and I'm up in the air on Roberts there's a better picture of Billy and they look alot alike even paulita maxwell said it didn't resemble him so I think you are wrong
Everything’s distorted if you want to believe in Brushy Bill. That’s your right, but I’m not wrong.
Never thought Brushy was the Kid. Just a guy looking for fame and was propped up by those seeking the same.
That seems to be the best summary I've ever seen....
Billy was killed have you ever heard there's no honor amongst thieves there was a substantial amount of money on billy head for that time pat took the money and run remember pat was a thief to just figured out how to use the law still happens to this day
That's nothing against billy him and Jesse James are my two favorite outlaws I think everybody has gotta lil love for a outlaw that lives on there terms and not the laws of society
Well it’s easy …… cosmetic surgery! Duh 🙄
Yes...the lifestyles of the rich and infamous....
@@attilathehun0 right, I figured someone have already done that
@@MankindMediaLLC Hahaha!!!
@@tjingram1207 Probably🤣🤣
looking at pictures of a young brushy bill it looks to me that he has droopy earlobes. I guess when you get to 90 ish your ears can change shape a bit
No...actually they cannot. "Droopy" earlobes cannot suddenly become tightly attached to the face.
@@MankindMediaLLC fare enough so how do you explain young brushy bills droopy earlobes changing when he got older?
@@pirtrom11 I don't...since I don't know what photo you're referencing.
the chins dont match either
Right. Not even close. I just figured I wouldn’t have to go that far to show people the truth. :-)
Great analysis
Thank you. Much appreciated
That's only means Brushy wasn't Billy, but it doesn't mean Billy didn't fake his death or take advantage of Pat killing the wrong person
Greetings...if you want a good laugh, check out a new video by William Marshall called Billy the Kid...it has a BTK baby photo in the 1st five minutes...I swear!
That's gotta be worth a billion dollars!
@@MankindMediaLLC I've got one that shows a young BTK and Abraham Lincoln at the theater together I've been keeping back...think I'll go ahead and contact the Koch Bros. now and avoid the rush...Peace Friend!
I wish it was him but you can see that’s 2 different men the nose is completely different too Brushys nose is sharp and pointy Billy the kids is wider and rounder and has a narrow mouth Brushy has a wider face and bigger jawline and mouth, that being said I don’t think Billy the kid was killed by his friend Pat Garrett there is to many factors everybody who saw the body said it wasn’t Billy
Yur ABSOLUTELY right! bill roberts was not William h BONNEY he wished!
I got in a argument with someone on UA-cam the other day who was claiming this was the death photo of Billy.. might have been the same guy haha
Probably so! We've got a friend on common now!
from what i have read , billy was shot twice once in the heart and once in the face if that info was true then he is not dead in that photo
Have you ever seen the photo that was found in the back of Paulita Maxwell's diary? To date it has remained unidentified but man alive, it sure looks like him.
they were unable to match Billy's moms DNA to Brushy Bill Robert's DNA . he was a lier looking for attention , he is not Billy the Kid . but it did add to the Legend for about a 90 years ..
That’s not true. There have been no DNA tests published relating to Brushy Bill or Billy’s mother…….yet. :-)
Such a shame there's no better authenticated images of Billy. Nice work, Brushy seemed like a character with some knowledge of events but that doesn't make him the kid.
It makes you want his real story.
That's what I'm saying....I would just love to know how this all went down in 1948-50
@@MankindMediaLLC Yup, Bret Hall has done a lot of weeding and correlation with the varying stories from as many sides as could be gleaned, debunked much. Sorting this out is at best a crap shoot:) Too much corruption going on at the time...and too much vested interest in the story at the time...which transmits to now. I'm coming to think Garret was an opportunistic backshooter and was not a particularly good step up. Actually, he was maybe a step down from the sheriff he beat in the election, thanks to deep pockets once again. MIchael does a good job here of throwing things up though.
Oliver probably knew Billy The Kid or was a friend of the Regulators.
I actually own two very nice old pictures of the Kid. You can see them too, and some others that I found with Sallie Chisum's personal collection of tintypes that I found a few years ago. If you look up "Anglefire Sallie Chisum" you'll be introduced to a bunch of very nice LCW photos.
death photo? if alive the stand used to keep from moving is still used if alive and well. Billy's face is to clean after shotgun at close range which Id think would be shredded to a degree..brushy drank too much cactus juice...
I have looked at the nose and nostrils of the Kid. The nose stays the same and the nostrils are big. The kids nose never came too a point. Just saying. Thanks for your videos! Yes I did want Brushy Bill to be Billy because it gives us all hope of a wonderful story. If the Kid did survive it wasn’t through Brushy Bill. Just my opinion. Thanks again Michael
Yeah...so many features don't look alike. I think it's time to put Brushy to bed. That said, I'm not certain there's anything under that dirt in Fort Sumner
100% agree Michael, can’t argue science but I have a feeling someone will try.
Well, it's already happened! :-)
Pat Garret killed Billy the Kid. Brushy Bill is a liar. That’s it
Finally, the proof we already knew. Excellent work. Brushy was a complete liar.
no matter what, consider the wildness of the time, his swag in the pic, is mad cool
those affidavits don't hold any credibility either.
No, no way is this a postmortem photo of Billy. I've several of those though and the deceased is usually sitting in a chair with the supports hidden. I've never seen one standing without support from at least a couple of lawmen. But the head is always flopping, and clearly dead.
Agreed...plus there's never, ever been anyone that suggested a death photo was taken of Billy standing in Fort Sumner. Also, people had the photo before he was killed, as he gave one to Diedrick....would be tough to hand it to him when you're already dead.
@@MankindMediaLLC Yes, that's true, VERY difficult! As far as I know, no one has ever done that. 🤪
When they are not held by lawmen, the head usually gets straighten up in the post-mortem ones I have seen standing up, because the support is like a forceps placed under the skull and the tips hidden behind the ears, regardless of the body sagging to either side but not too much. In this photo, Billy actually doesn't just tilt his hat but his own head a little. Impossible to get if he was a corpse, with the skull support holding not just the head but the upper body body upright; another wider semi-ring much more flat held the lower back around the hips or kidneys height. The closed legs "too straight for a cowboy" not standing but hanging, as the post-mortem types may claim, get debunked because there iis actual pictures of other cowboys assuming the same stance, included "Buffalo Bill" himself among the many photos of him taken as hunter with rifle stance. One similar photo, still in better shape survived from one of Bonney's friends. Maybe made by the same Military photographer. BTW, by the time Garrett would have get a photographer to fake a montage as a post-mortem would have been, given the temperatures in that state at that time of the year like now a few weeks ago, in few hours Billy's lips would have been so swollen and impossible to fake with make up or ice if any around. Same with soft tissue as his eyelids. The man in the photo is very alive, however to me he looks like he had bad sleep or had been riding for hours to get to his photo session, and by the way he looks dressed, vest and cardigan over, pants tugged in boots for warm too, it looks like it was in winter time or spring, never summer time. Also, it would not have made any sense, the lawmen would ask to make such more expensive arrangement only families did out of nostalgic attachment to remember relatives looking alive not gone, specially when lawmen or bounty hunters involved would have liked to prove their prey did show indeed to have been made a real McCoy. Just like the Dalton brothers and others were shown without make up or hats on, even those of the Paris commune a few years earlier, some made stand up but in their own makeshift coffin.
Think your commenter is dead brain dead, wish your author friend would share what he found out about some of these fake researchers so we as the curious public would not be led astray, kind of a disservice to Billy enthusiasts, great work M.A.G thanks for the vids
I can't say....but I'm hopeful that someday I get to see that research. If I do you know I'll share it here.
This is a mirror image of Billy the Kid standing holding a Winchester in his right hand. If you look up the original picture not just thr upper part you'll see the Winchester has its loading port on the wrong side as well as Billys shadow is to be seen on the wall. The whackadoodle who claimed its a mortal image of him is clearly drunk.
The whackadoodle also claims that his trigger finger was cut off by Pat Garrett before this photo was taken. Having no clue that it is a mirror image photo, thus making whackadoodle's claims of the photo being postmortem completely moot.
In the picture either the loading gate is there or it ain’t .If it is on wrong side how did it get there ? Did the camera just create it out of thin air ? Should only be on right side.
@@grousedog88 The way the tintype photograph image is created, it is a reverse image. They were made using a thin sheet of iron coated with black enamel. Because they are not produced from a negative, the images are reversed.
In a tintype "the print would come out laterally reversed (as one sees oneself in a mirror).
From an article about tintype photographs:
"Billy the Kid was often mistakenly thought to be left-handed because of a famous tintype of him that showed him with his six-gun revolver on his left side. Photo historians pointed out, however, that in tintypes the image is reversed, so in actuality his gun was on his right side and he was right-handed. This was confirmed by the fact that his waistcoat buttons and belt buckle were also reversed in the incorrect left-handed original tintype picture."
@@localbod Good info.
Brushy Bill was a notorious liar. Josh over at Wild West extravaganza UA-cam channel does a great job of Debunking Ole Brushy Bill.
If he were dead, I think Paulita Maxwell would have known it.
What if he clipped his ear lobes? Heh
I saw Billy the kid and Elvis playing cards one night and the stories they were telling each other. You would have had to been there.. 🤔🤣
See....I knew someone must have tracked them down. Top job Sir!
I agree. Also, look at BTK's ears at the top, they are NOT bent over as they would if the hat was pushing them down. Whether you have attached lobes or not, Just push them down. It does NOT change how the lobes look.
Interesting ! What’s your thoughts on the “ new photo “ of him playing cards ? I’m no ear lobe expert but they look different , they look attached. Though I had a quick look at the guy next to the proposed Billy who they say is Dick Brewer and his most certainly have an uncanny resemblance of Dicks very recognisable ear lobes ha. Keep up the solid work!
I haven't studied that one very close. I'll take a look.
I just looked at the pic I think you're talking about. I can't see the bottom of his ear in the pic. The guy's hat who is sitting beside him is blocking the view.
@@bradgaines yeah that’s the one, if you zoom in you can just see the where the earlobe joins the head ( not sure if that’s the correct term haha ) which is what is discussed in this vid 👍🏻
A VERY interesting video!
Thank you! I never would have thought to check out earlobes, but, amazingly, there's no refutting THIS evidence! Very cool!
No one knows for sure if Billy the kid was actually shot and killed by Pat Garrett, or if Pat Garrett shot someone else especially if the room was dark you can't distinguish one person from another or know who was actually shot and killed in that room... Did Pat Garrett actually kill Billy the kid or did Billy the kid actually survive and live to be an older gentleman? There is absolutely no certainly on who was shot and killed in that room by Pat Garrett
Amen, I had enough of the "Brushy Bill" nonsense.
You're in good company on that....
it is basically fanaticism and that attracts a particular kind of types, that do not or can't accept Reality even if the DNA would prove it one day be staring at their faces. They will invent or tie themselves in knots to another conspiracy theory, desperately needing it to fall deeper into the rabbit holes where they want you to follow like Alice into their wunderland
93% facial recognition with the tin type
@@brandonmoore6930 Earlobes do not lie. They are like fingerprints! Brushy Bill was full of crap.
agreed brushy bill is 100% NOT billy the kid
Thank you Michael I always knew brushy Bill Robert's was an imposter he looked nothing like Billy the kid plus the ears Australia
Of all the photos I have seen people use of brushy for comparison through the years, this is the first time I’ve seen these two. Suspiciously odd similarities but still doesn’t look like known photos of the mail around the age. Is there authentication of where you got these two photos?
No Sir.....they are readily available online including in some pro Brushy books as well as message boards and groups. While you have a right to be skeptical, I have never heard of anyone challenging the authenticity of these photos.
Joshua Garcia Those photos are Brushy.
I found it interesting that they said that bushy was 91 in 1950 when he passed away
But if his day the birth was 1879, he died in 1950. He would have been 71
If he was born by Billy's birthday year of 1859 and died in 1950 then he would be 91
Well I just thought that was kind of interesting.
Of the 20-year difference
You're correct...actually Brushy said he had a number of different birth years including 1859, 62,67,68,75,76, and 79. It's a train wreck when you look at all of the misdirections.
Jesse Evans named Brushy Bill as Billy the Kid. I did some research and in fact earlobes can change some with time. However, these two are so distinct unless he had plastic surgery there's no way.
Jesse Evans did not, in fact, name Brushy Bill as the kid. The entire Joe Hines story was fabricated.
Why weren't these photos of Brushy Bill available before so they could provide the public with the proof that he and the Kid were two different persons, sparing all the debate about it? I never believed Brushy Bill was Henry McCarty in the first place because they just don't look alike in other aspects as well, and with these new photos, the differences stand out even more that neither do the eyes, nose, and especially the lips or mouth. The Kid had a small mouth, but Brushy 's mouth looks like a long line, nothing small about it.
Well, the fact is that they were available. Brushy's photo was in national and regional news media. As like today, people see things differently and believe what they want to believe.
I wanna know where brushy bill got all his scars and also I guess facial recognition is not an exact science.
It's clear Brushy lived an interesting life....and did a number of dangerous things. It's almost a shame that he got caught up in trying to be Billy the Kid, because many of the stories that he or Morrison created to validate his Billy story get in the way of who he really was. I'd love to know what his life was really like without all of the Billy stuff inserted into it.
Brushy divorced his first wife. A woman scorned will stab someone she has a love hate relationship with 27 times.?
@@thecollectoronthecorner7061 🤣
Yes for whatever reason they would pose them after death which it never occurred to me but his his were always strange!! That would fit.
Finally, Billy is allowed to rest in peace in his grave at Fort Sumner.
Everything you did to prove that neither Brushy nor Miller was BTK is a MASTERPIECE!
Thank you. Now back to the real Billy the Kid talk!
Anyone can see he's nothing like him...except the reachers 😂
You are 100% right !!! I have been saying that for years. I have a old great , great great grand father that purchased a horse and signed with a ear print. I have been looking at ears for 50 years. Your right. No doubt !
That’s very cool. I’ve never heard of that happening before.
I feel stupid for missing this...
This is odd because if you take the Brushy Bill at age 27 tintype and compare it to Billy tintype and un-reverse them, it becomes an exact match,. Not just the lobe attachment but inner cartilage and each ear mismatching the other,... Like exactly
Thanks for the reply Mark. Everyone sees things differently. If you can actually see the inner ear cartilage on the tintype of Billy, more power to you. To me, that's a significant stretch based upon a photo of relatively low quality.
@@MankindMediaLLC is there a way to send pictures on here? If so I'll try to show you,.. but what is so odd about it is that Brushy's ears at 27 don't seem to match his ears at age 90. Things just get weirder and weirder.
By the way I appreciate your passion and hard work
@@markhenry2558 Thanks Mark. You can email to billythekidridesagain@gmail.com. I'd love to have a look at what you've found. Do we know the provenance of the photo at 27? Any chance that's not him? The old man pictures are most certainly him as he was in the media's eye....
i totally agree with you
Thank you for watching!
Great video, people talk about 93% facial recognition. That means 7% didn't match, faulty position
There was no 93% match in the first place. That was made up by an author trying to prove this farce.
the tin type was touched up because it was faded, that was not the kids jawline, many accounts said he was very handsome, but had tucked teeth poking out from his top lip, until the 20s when he had them pulled, and kept them in a jar along with a pile of physical evidence as well as known documented affidavits from Billie's own friends saying bushy bill was him.. it's like ur electing to ignore a lot of facts because they don't support ur theory
This is hilarious, as well as being completely untrue. Thats what happens when you believe everything you find on the internet
I've always said the same thing about ears.
Its all based on one photo that may not be him. We will never know for sure, case closed.
Actually, anyone interested in actual evidence already knows. Case closed.
One of his ears is clearly covered by dark hair. Otherwise it must be a misshapen short ear. I think the other ear has a dark curl of hair hiding the attached portion. On one side you can follow the line of the hair covering the lower ear.
Everyone sees what they want to see.
Great info! Thank you for the video on this
I think you are wrong about everything you think you know about Billy the kid.Billy the kid was not killed by pat Garrett
Wow, what a brilliant argument. Since you have zero proof of what you think, your opinion is irrelevant
Post mortem pics of outlaws shows them leaning up against something, not standing freely on their legs holding an upright rifle. The stabilizer stands that were used was to keep the subject's head from moving since the whole process took many minutes of standing there looking bored.
Agreed
Actually the time of the pose when making a tintype was about 8 seconds more or less. The time of the exposure depended upon the quality and intensity of the light and the temperature.
Perhaps Brushy had an ear surgery 😂😊
One, 150 year old picture is not enough to analyze anyone's ear. Case Closed
Well, it's all we have and Brushy has zero legitimate evidence to prove he was anyone but Oliver Pleasant Roberts...so, case closed.
Greeting! I can't find that video where I thought he might have been dead but I will keep looking and let you know but DO NOT waste your time on one called BTK Post Mortum Photo by Jesse Vaughan Sr. what he shows as his close up has so obviously been doctored it is little more than a joke. Also, I have wondered why Pauletta Maxwell never mentioned it as be a death photo since she made the remark about it not doing him justice you might think she would have mentioned he was dead at the time it was made and also, Pat Garrett never mentioned anything about ta picture of the Kid either dead or alive and I feel for for certain he would gave let it be known if it were a death photo, Sorry to waste your time but I sure do enjoy your work! Thanks My Friend...Hope Your are feeling better.
Thanks Chip....no one ever mentioned it was a death photo....no a soul. People have cried out over the years that none was taken...which makes me wonder why someone who lived in Ft Sumner didn't simply say "here...he's dead in this one"?
@@MankindMediaLLC Absolutely. I have also heard or read that there were originally 4 of those verified photos and 3 have been lost in time. One of the families (don't remember name) Said that Billy himself gave it to them. I will keep looking for that really creepy close-up video and let you know if I run across it. For me the really interesting thing about the Kid is how few "FACTS" known about him...he is like a great mystery that drifts through American history and except for that 1 verified picture we wouldn't even know what he looked like. If I had my 1 day with him...I would like to know his name, birthday, place of birth, parents...all the things you would know if you were there at his birth..Sorry My Friend..I get to rambling sometimes. Peace...Stay Safe This death photo business is really knew and it was the man whose video I said NOT to watch that started it. He's probably a snake oil salesman along the lines of Brushy's lawyer.
@@chipmusick682 Ramble away my brother! That's what we're here for.....
@@MankindMediaLLC Thank you for your good work & kind HOSPITALITY! If you ever want a good couple of songs to relax to..please give "Outlaw Blues" and "Billy the Kid" by Dave Edmunds...oldies but goodies! Thanks Michael
Good morning from Va. You should know better than to ever invite an old man to "ramble away". I just want to say that of all the accounts of the Kid's death that I have ever heard of, read, or listened to, i BELIEVE Chano Silva's the most. I am sure you are already familiar and I think I have heard you mention it. Well, that' my 2 cents worth...will be expecting change in the mail. Thanks My Friend!