So here’s the thing. Those of us that HAVE learned how to memorize social cues and trained ourselves what is expected behavior in social situations (masking) get incredibly burned out and go into shutdown mode. These shutdowns can last an hour, weeks and sometimes months. We absolutely can not force ourselves to interact causing us to lose jobs, friendships and/or have issues at school. You can teach a person all day everyday how they “should” act or behave but if is not in alignment with who they are and what their true nature is then you’re causing more harm than good. As to the parents that praise their child and then the child has expectations for themselves that are too high…. I guess this can partly be true, but for those of us with Aspergers, we naturally have high expectations for ourselves. Most things that are intellectual come to us fairly easy so when we come across something that doesn’t we get extremely disappointed in ourselves. We then project that onto people who could potentially help us, thinking they will also be disappointed that we didn’t know it and we freeze. Not asking for help. I did not grow up with parents who praised me and still have this issue in myself.
Your comment is interesting to me because I have an undiagnosed boyfriend well he was my boyfriend just trying to stay friends with him now and here I am 65 and he 58 he's never been diagnosed with Asperger's he thinks he doesn't have it what he does have also is cerebral palsy so he has thought that all of his life that this was what made him different and he thinks he's very smart smarter than anybody probably which he is but he also has Asperger's and doesn't get the emotional stuff I've tried to tell him that he's got Asperger's but he rejects it. What I'm thinking is maybe he realizes there's something he doesn't get and he's disappointed in himself used to thinking he's so smart and then all of a sudden Here Comes this woman who he thought was dumber than dirt but yet she's got something on him and he can't explain it. He would like to just think I'm dumb and I don't know what I'm talking about especially cuz I don't give a rat's ass about computer and technology and electronic I'm an artistic creative person but my ex was a psychologist and I just have that personality type that picks up on these things. It's important though because right now he's dragging himself around doing a menial labor type of job because he didn't get along with those at work I feel like if he knew he had Asperger's and could learn how to get along with people better or getting to a job that appreciates and asp ie that would be better. For him especially because he really needs a desk job so that he can use his brain and not his damn body which isn't working too good.
obviously mainly the issue is in audiences being misaligned in expectations, never thought of it consciously as a pre-emptive effort to avoid disappointing intellectually, but yeah, I think that's a fair take. my parents just thought I was lazy, not that I wasn't praised per se, but the pattern remains. Very common pattern to present as more competent than we should be, in many areas, socially too. Gets a lot of resent, people figuring it's intentional or that we're more independently capable than we are.
at least you got there: congrats. I'm almost 40 & still looking myself, finding it hard enough to just find people who'll attempt adult evaluations, let alone understand the comorbidity factors & how they co-effect from more typical presentations, let alone ideally not charging thousands just to attempt an evaluation which is apt to not consider the former or therefore be anything I can validate that kind of expense on. I know I'm good at masking, I know my script runs deep, I know it is an adequate simulation of emotional intelligence by now to reasonably compensate even though it's exhausting, but will they see that, or just say I'm not autistic? can't throw 4 figures at just any person willing to just try listening for the typical signs, let alone each...& just finding one of those qualifications on people feels like a needle in a haystack. No one seems to appreciate why I'd want more labels of a pathology people don't typically want, like the aimlessness of guessing is better.
I'm old now and in final stage of ASD evaluations and too many parallels with ADHD people and figures to ignore. Getting that checked out eventually. I spent nearly my entire life studying people as though I was an alien undercover, watching the strange party of Humanity through the window, never really joining in. Then when I tried things usually went wrong. They behave how they feel like without stopping to think first and it all goes well for them. I try that, backfires spectacularly. I now overthink literally everything and every decision from tiny to life-changing. I can actually understand the normies, and the problem is, many of them I've encountered really, really are S T U P I D whether they have good-intent or not. Then I get ND people telling me that when I say: "some ND people are more intelligent than others" this means I'm an evil Fascist. They're as devoid of critical thinking skills as the worst normies and they've arrived at a strange egotistical narcissism eerily similar to the worst normies. As though I'm anything like the extremely dysfunctional end of the scale who need 24/7 care and sometimes spend their whole lives in hospital and should group myself with them for the sake of their feelings at the expense of my own well-being, independent thinking, autonomy, agency, and sanity. People are dumb every which way and I'm so tired of feeling like an alien being oppressed by pond-life from every angle at once.
@@Kelos7 yes, exactly! At age 50, I attempted an official diagnosis but fell through the cracks once again. I have learned to mask so much in life. I suffer so much from imposter syndrome so that doesn't help either. At my age, I doubt I will ever get the needed help, so I try to learn what I can to help myself.
@@michaelchildish I related to what you commented on. My life is often very painful and confusing. I get pissed at how much I have missed in life, at how no Dr ever asked the right questions, at how much I have blamed myself for being a fucked up person who is quite bright, but never could do life like regular people. I have faked, pretended and masked for 68 years and am so tired. I find myself considering 'exit plans' because I don't know what else to do at this late date.
This made me emotional. This talk explains exactly how my life went. Started school at the top of the class. Everything was so easy, I could read anything , was even taken around the school, class to class, to read for all the teachers. Felt like a performing monkey. As I grew older I became very anxious and preferred to withdraw. As I was older, my artistic ability seemed to stand out and I was treated like a prodigy by my teachers. However, I didn’t really have parents and ended up in a lot of trouble because the world became more confusing as people were also. Trying to cope with it all made me suicidal. I eventually was institutionalised for suicidal tendencies and depression. All this probably could have been so different if only I had some understanding as a child and given proper care. But then that can be the case for any child I guess.
Neuropsychological evaluation was the most important thing I've done in the diagnosis path, got diagnosed at 30 y/o and it has been very helpful for me 7 years ago I used to work with motorcycle deliveries, failed at 2 universities attempt already, depressive and hopeless, all changed once I switched from operational to cognitive work, now I'm a self taught programmer, I read books on different topics that interests me, which I didn't used to, and by stimulating my brain a bit more on my own pace has been very helpful, just have to work some stuff still, but it's way better than before, but I still kind of feel a bit off of society lol hope you have a good weekend ^^
Yeah, I did very well in school until I ended up in Psychiatric Hospitals at age 15. I graduated highschool but couldn't cope with college. I made 3 attempts and then dropped out. They misdiagnosed me a lot. I haven't accomplished much.
Yeah top classes at school till around 13-14 years of age, didnt really even try, just came naturally, then the slow decent, didnt get stuff done, started wagging class lots as I hated sttting in a boring class for an hour, socially very few friends, really none if Im honest lol. Only diagnosed with ADHD at 50, suspect I may have a touch of autism as I'm not bad at maths, only done online IQ tests which I know are probably shit, but give a bit of an idea I guess, usually around the 120 mark. Can retain loads of useless facts as well but cant tell you what I had fro breakfast this morning lol
@@Sara-wv3ms Not true. "Just focus on your relationships" makes that sound easy. It is often very difficult. When relationships are difficult, it can be better to focus on something more enjoyable - like your interests, hobbies, learning something new through courses, etc.
is stifling how much suicide, suicide attemtps and molestation accompanies those of us with asbergers... dealt with this my whole life... our gullible, innocent, ignorant selves are bullied and told to stop being so sensitive. This literally explains my life and struggle and nearly all women misdiagnosed as bipolar or borderline personality or narcissistic or learning disabled To say the pain of being misunderstood, disliked, hated, judged, condemed, criticized, reprimanded, called crazy/wierd/different/quarky/stupid, a bitch, inconsiderate of others feelings, self pitying, pathetic, fake, domineering, to sensitive, over reacting, not listening, lying, and asked to be someone I'm not in order to please social norms has and is excruciating is an Understatement I'm incredibly grateful for the few around me that get me even though I burn them out (imagine being in my life of trauma with this misdiagnosed issue your whole life) and then being told your not allowed to be confident or proud of self when most others have no idea the momenumental effort I've displayed to be a citizen in society and not blow my brains out cause the world doesn't want who I LOVE to be but they find uncomfortable and hurtful I'm extremely grateful I've always had music and dance as an outlet... bc it's safe to stim, be loud /expressive and Alone as a dancer, singer where others can watch and enjoy my gifts rather then be hurt/burned by them Please society stop putting us down just because we physically "look" normal but don't act normal... to many of us ALL neurotypicals seem boring, constrained, inauthentic, robotic, programmed, predictable, judgmental, snooty, privileged, unintelligent, tricksters/lying for pleasure and self righteous. You have no idea how much Accomdating WE are doing for how annoying your social events and shallow small talk is to us.... we just don't shit on it all the time the way you do on us. We show up for YOU not for ourselves. If it was up to us we'd stay home and play with our animals and our own imaginations.
Wow! You have no idea how much those close to you suffer because if you could, you'd realise what you are doing and then it wouldn't be the abnormality you have. People close to those with ADHD, Asperger's syndrome, etc suffer terribly so.
Wow- Every word wow. ❤ I recognize every human is different, but I’m so sorry you, or anyone else, knows exactly how I think & feel about such specific soul-crushing realities all of our lives. ❤ All the best- Thank you so very much for sharing.
I can relate to this so much! I used to have a hard time thinking about everyone (neurotypical) who had it "so easy" and sailed through life! All the bullying, abuse, etc when I was trying SO HARD to fit in! I still struggle to make small talk. I find it really boring when all people want to talk about is what they're wearing, who's cooler than whoever, what the latest tv show craze is... it's exhausting. To me, the "neurotypical" folks were the ones who abused and bullied me the worst, so I have enormous trust issues with people I'm only meeting the first time. The mask is up, the guards are up. I've learned to keep to scripted dialogues to manage myself during times when I'm forced to "small talk" in order to network as a mother (important for the social well being of my children), and occasionally as an engineer in the automotive industry. There are very few people I feel free to be myself around without reserve. I find my reserve to make my default stance towards "neurotypical" strangers to be one of profound distrust- I often have trouble seeing them as anything but phony or shallow. This is a huge disservice to them and something I have to actively manage during my interactions. Often times, it's only when someone "neurotypical" becomes vulnerable about a struggle they have that I feel at all comfortable around them. Their vulnerability enables me to see that they are capable of genuine connection and that they've honored me with entrusting their struggle to me. I've struggled so much, that often it's the only way for me to genuinely relate to those who don't share one of my special interests. Which stinks because not many people in general can be vulnerable like that. I've found that several of my special interests (relating to my work- anything manufacturing, automotive, steel related) to be beneficial for me as they align with how I make my living. It's just... relating to people outside of work outside with my other "special interests" (gardening, running, psychology, etc) is difficult as not many share them and I've had difficulty opening up and sharing with others from past experiences growing up. I think sometimes it's harder for the "normal looking" high functioning ASD folks to live up to the expectations of those around us, especially when we don't "get it." Fitting in is often short lived and we tend to fall out of the broader social circles. I've learned to mask so well that sometimes I wonder who I am at times, what do I look like as a person without forcing myself to show up publicly as neurotypical. Fortunately the landscape around this is changing. I'm blessed to live where I do- there's a high concentration of engineers and likely just as high a concentration of those similarly on the spectrum,. This makes it easier for me to be open about the "nerd" I am to others like me. Also, my son who's aspie like me is owning and rocking the NERD title. He wears it like a badge of honor- and it's beautiful to see!
I am one of the missed diagnosis people you describe. My father also. He got his diagnosis after he turned 60. The adhd ruined most of his life it was very sevre and untreated. I had top grades all through school except in math because I hated math and had no interest or patience for it. I had no idea it was adhd or even what that was. I got through all the way to university with straight A grades but inside i knew i was coasting and struggling. I have managed to ge through life in spite of not knowing the name of my "demon" , but not well. Its been an absolute battle. But I have become a master of masking, hiding my shortcomings, emotions, addictions and problems. But i have, in spite of abnormally high iq, not been able to finish any higher education to speak of, unfinished projects pile up, no social life to speak of, financial difficulties and general under achievement and not being able to fulfill my potential. People around me always ask me about what happened to all the great things I was lined up to achieve in life: " oh I thought you where at uni" or "oh I thought she was at the music academy". I feel I have tapped into about 5 to 10 % of my potential. I have been surviving, not living. My mental noise, restlesness and suffering have gotten in the way completely. I'm 39 yrs old now and about to start diagnosed treatment. I'm so hopeful and excited and hope and treatment can change my life in a big way. I am dying to see my life's work come to fruition: I hope the help I can get will be the key to my focus and ability finish work/ achieving my goals.
Totally with you. Wish there was something we could tell each that would help, but it’s clear that our population is not yet well understood, much less has anyone become expert enough to help us meaningfully (medications have been useless for me, and of course therapy cannot overcome my dysregulation and impulse control issues. Struggle on knowing you are not alone.
This is so close to my backstory I had to do a double take despite knowing I didn't type this. But literally everything you wrote is so close to my upbringing and struggle I can barely believe I didn't write this myself. (Even our ages and the age of our fathers are exactly the same.)
just turned 37 & 100% the same story (with more of an art / math / programming slant). getting a diagnosis for ADD was a no brainer (I respond to SSRI as expected, tada), but the autism presentations after decades of coping mechanisms? forget it. totally unrecognizable / counter-to autism presentation to 90% of medical professionals, leading to immediate dismissal. glad to make any progress, but really infuriating to get help with only partial diagnosis that doesn't really get at the core symptoms holding me back too.
Thank you so much! I’m 43 and have searched for answers almost my entire life. Just knowing and having people that post things that help are so relieving! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
I'm 56 and gave just been diagnosed with ADHD/autism. It's nice to (finally) know that all the feelings of alienation, of not really understanding the world, and struggling academically even when considered bright, has an explanation other than me being stupid freak. Being able to talk with other people with similar experiences is genuinely helpful, as most people simply don't understand what it is like
As soon as I saw the Joshua case study my heart dropped. I had to stop the video and cry. The only difference is that I was embarrassed about "being smart" and I tried to hide it and pretend I was less intelligent than I was. I never really had to try with homework or anything, and I learned to speak in a way that was relatable to other people. It kind of worked, but I thought about ending it all often. I remember praying, actually praying, that I could be a little less smart. My thoughts were overwhelming and I thought it would be easier if I had less of them. This was before I understood that I was ADHD and autistic.
@@rockymntain That doesn't make you unique. It's fortunate that your opinion is of little consequence; I just wish there were fewer of you. People like you keep people like myself and my son from seeking assistance when we really could use it. I did not attend public school until 5th grade, because my mom did not want me to be relegated to special ed classrooms and sedated. Things have come a long way in three decades though, and my son is able to get some assistance in 1st grade. Also, since you're so smart, I'm truly surprised you aren't aware that "gifted" is, in fact, part of special education. My defect is in social skills, emotional regulation, and physical ability, not intelligence.
@@rockymntain Essentially, what you are saying is "you pass, so I don't believe you." Imagine telling a hard of hearing person "you read lips so well, you aren't really deaf." Yes, I have passing privilege. I can mask pretty well, in part because I'm intelligent.A person with glasses is not blind, but they are still visually impaired and need support (glasses.) They just don't need as much support as a completely blind person.
What I said to my mom " I'm a misfit freak that has worked harder then anyone I know but has nothing to show for it, life would be so much easier if I was normal" BTW that statement was made 10 years ago BEFORE I had even heard the terms neurotypical or Autism I remember someone saying to me "you're brilliant but do you ever shut up, it seems you're always talking but not listening" I always felt listening to neurotypicals literally makes me dumber... which apparently then makes me appear as a conceited narricist Also listening to lying, half truth, half lying, preplanned power playing neurotypicals makes it impossible to look them in the eye or sit still when they talk... (which makes us ASD look inconsiderate or unempathetic) I'm not consenting to ingesting your poison While you stare into my pure soul. The one you actually are jealous of and wish you had but instead attack bc you refuse to accept the parts of yourself you or others don't like
The disconnect between the person on the screen not talking, and somebody else talking but we can’t see them, is taking all my attention. That being said, super appreciate this information and the work that you put into it.
Being an only child is a different kind of upbringing. For better and for worse. I was better off as an only child as our home was pretty quiet and I needed that.
Both my daughters. I have told my eldest she will have to get herself diagnosed, because the harder I try, the more I am "that mom" and the closer we move to having Social Workers on our doorstep as a "problem family". The school won't help, because neither girl is disruptive, quite the opposite. The older girl used to have a melt down every time I collected her from school. Shaken bottle syndrome. They all assumed she hated me. Fortunately my younger girl is a cuddler and runs into my arms. But she is equally distraught by her inability to socialise. Sometimes she has a good spell, other times bad, and she withdraws. However, in the UK you have to just shut up or pay the consequences. My eldest, I remember going for parents evening and the very same teacher who said she had no problems, showed me her desk. Every other kid's desk was free of clutter, my daughter's was a mass of marbles, stones, string, wool, parts of toys, feathers, that she had collected over time. But a perfectly normal kid, apparently. 😡
As an ADDer i agree about the medication part. Though I'd like to add the importance of recognizing that different brands of the same substance can make a huge difference! Many adhd ers agree with me on this. There have been many reports on side affects over the last years since changes have been made regarding this subject.
My son is also an only child who we have praised him for his hard work. He also has stuggled in some of his gen ed high school classes. He got his very first D this term. While it is important to build up his strengths, we also acknowledge that he has weaknesses and has to work harder than others sometimes. Fortunately, even though his social skills are not as strong as others, the students at his school have really accepted him for the person he is, and he has become very popular. The adults I work at at my school have noted how well he is accepted and liked. I think not only do we need to build our children up, we need to acknowledge their weaknesses too. It is a beautiful thing to see a whole school of children who have learned uncoditional acceptance of people who are unlike themselves. I credit these amazing students, the school, and the parents who have raised good children.
How wonderful you have found a school like that, with incredible human beings, now if it could be duplicated and spread worldwide what an amazingly wonderful world it could be.
So many times highly intelligent students are able to coast through many of their classes, (especially some curriculum that does not challenge them academically), that when they encounter a truly challenging course, they flop. They get used to things being easy for them all the time and accept that as the rule. I've seen this in high school graduates who are over-confident in their abilities that go into college level courses. They take on a whole boatload of classes and fail quite spectacularly. They are placed on academic suspension and usually don't finish, because the coursework is not the watered down (slop) material taught in so many high schools nowadays.
We learn in a very logical, conscious way and tend not to pick things up by osmosis like neurotypicals, and because no-one bothers to explain social interaction (even when you ask them politely) we're often left in the dark. This is compounded in children as we simply don't know what we don't know. Another thing I never see getting brought up is the effect of bullying and exclusion on the developing brain. I was abused pretty severely as a child and _the only thing I could do_ was tune out/dissociate. Instead of looking purely at brain chemistry and trying to medicate the problem away, look to environmental factors and treat these kids for stress and trauma.
Exactly I’ve been told I have PTSD not from my service in Bosnia either from U diagnosed autism , trauma and the stuff in the above post. I was bullied home and school and work and in the community. Rich autistics get a lot more support and means to fight back than poor ones trust me. And I’ve had no support
There's a saying in the autism community that sums it up: "Nothing about us without us". I'm in my 50's and recently diagnosed as autistic / Aspergers. I also test very high on IQ tests - top 2%. I was diagnosed as "hyperactive" back in the 70s in first grade by a school psychologist, and have suffered with extreme anxiety and depression for most of my life. I've had severe social and career difficulties despite graduating cum laude with a professional degree in architecture, and going on to become lisenced and to both teach and practice architecture professionally. Ketamine infusion theraphy litterally cured my anxiety and depression back in 2018. Dr. Brown is fantastic, but I wish there was was someone like me with Autism /ADHD / Gifted IQ included in this discussion. The most important perspective is that of people with autisim when trying to help people with autism. Obviously. PS: Ya see? That snarky comment at the end? That's one of the things I tend to do socially without realizing how it tends to put people off. It's an expression of frustration and anger directed at the way I've been bullied, excluded, and misdiagnosed most of my life. Autism ultimately expresses itself as a set of fundamentally benign but diverse character traits / quirks born of our atypical neurology. The same atypical wiring that gave me my intelectual and artistic creativity made me seem a little odd to typical people. The harm I've expereienced has litterally all come from external social and interpersonal abuse and ignorance directed at forcing me to conform to unwritten yet generally accepted social norms. I'm willing to meet neurotypical society's norms to the extent I'm able to recognize them, but only if I'm treated with respect. That starts with inclusion. #actuallyautistic
definitely how those things are recieved, but I don't know if it's always out of bitterness. sometimes for sure, but I personally do it moreso often, like a japanese "よ": an assurance that you should know this; we're on the same page. try not to let your self-talk get too dark just because of how often we're misunderstood.
I am all this, but at 54 I feel like a chemical rat and all I want is to be able to operate without medication. People don't get us!!! Even pshyco therapy is useless unless you have someone who completely "gets it"! I often just have to tell myself it's useless to try and explain something to someone who is adamant to misunderstanding me, and they actually feel sorry for me! I just smile and walk away because my heart bleeds at the fundamental arrogant stupidity of most people. Don't get me wrong, I do have beyond normal apathy for humans and the like, but I feel somewhat frustrated and misunderstood 🙃 😅
@@reneedwards1082 This why efforts to help autistic people must be lead by autistic people. In dialog with neurotypical people of course, because we are a tiny minority, and we don't understand them anymore than they understand us. It's litterally their world. If they want the benefits that come with tolerance and acceptance of human diversity, they need to accept the challenges these things bring as well. It all starts with inclusion. I don't need pity or empathy or compassion. Those things are useless. What I need is acceptance, and it's what I've offered my entire life to nuerotypical society, only to be misunderstood and rejected and abused by it. I don't resent ordinary people for this. It's understandable given how different I am, and how much normal human social structures rely on conformity to function. But I refuse to participate in society unless it makes a good faith effort to understand, accept, and include me and people like me in it. I'll only participate to the extent neccessary to survive and pursue my own interests. I've sacraficed enough at this point, and it hasn't helped society or me.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience 100 percent correct!! I've also got to a point in my life where I isolate, not only because I've burnt out and need to recharge, but also out of frustration. Unfortunately I've ended up cutting my hair meticulously to the point of perfection as a stimming to relax but could do so much more if I wasn't this extreme ocd as well. So too i open myself up to be judged because I'm either reading too much, writing too much, thinking too much, as well as excessive heavy duty stimming such as painting and project management of building and design on a big property. I don't want to bore you but there are so few people you can talk to and relate to and the frustration just builds up. Also the frustration to get to the point of critical perfection in understanding when no one understands or cares to understand you cause it's not that critical for them.
@@reneedwards1082 totally understand that myself: I never have anyone who gets why the talking helps, and it really doesn't help that my whole household is nothing but social anxiety driven introverts who don't get the drive to blurt, so their brains go into seizures the moment I talk about oversharing anything. And anyone who doesn't get the AS / SCD side of it themselves gets really burned out, really fast, even more so those who I could otherwise find kinship with who are just ADHD. My brain fire keeps going & I watch them glaze over, & try to wrap up as fast as possible for the social grace of it, but it just keeps going... Only really have 2 choices being more blind to it: do that & deal with the alienation, or say nothing, not masking, & make them really uncomfortable with the projected judgementalism that comes with it. Skip context & lose them, or add context & drown them, it always feels like there's no winning, and people's advice if you do get it is always just to add the *right* context they actually needed, like I have a chance in hell of knowing what that's going to have been each time, or like that wasn't exacerbating the whole issue they just complained about to add more information on top of information overload. Currently un-diagnosed for that (past ADHD), and really that's the aspect I relate to above everything else, more characteristically & typical to conventional autism presentations, which I am otherwise, often, pretty empirically counter to by now in life. I'm nearing 40, & while to some extent we're always neurologically divergent from "neurotypicals" (we all know that's a label for no one real of course), a lot of it is only developmental aging deltas from the norm, and between the time span of aging, decades past when people measure those differences, not getting real help back then for it back then, & the coping mechanisms I developed along the way to avoid / compensate for those differences / social blindness leading me to a more masked, socially accepted presentation, I don't get a lot of rapport there. For example, I've always been super indolent as far back as I can remember, & stimming just overstimulates me further if I try. Like my whole body gets more electric charge running uncomfortably through me from it, maybe I'm just more kinaestheticly focused than some. There's also a strong possibility I have pretty formative trauma around presenting it, as I had parents divorcing at an early age & always had to present as healthy, to not get one parent in trouble for their rearing practices. I get very uncomfortable just having my wife like...bob her leg, pretty conventionally, so my coping is the opposite from most: turning inward, detaching, & turning my whole attention onto processing the flood of sensory input, like water flow. But that's backwards from what people are looking for, even though internally it's in many ways consistent in motivation, just an individualized coping manifestation, so I get dismissed as not anything on spectrum pretty easily, out of hand when I demonstrate the only coping mechanism I ever knew being something else. A few key features are like that for me, motor skills & body language too: I was just raised kind of feral & have...weird strategies consequentially. There's no one I can really talk to about even determining if I'm anything officially worth diagnosing as on spectrum & getting that external corroboration if that's what I've been suffering with. Can't find anyone that does adult testing who doesn't charge thousands out of pocket, not taking any insurance & have years long waiting lists to boot, even if they agree to see me to consider evaluating me. Even if I do find that, the longer I wait, the harder it is to detect my issues as what is considered "on spectrum", so meanwhile I'm divided from what little community I find I relate to, by yet another layer without that diagnosis. Seems to me the ubiquitous difficulty in even communicating why I want it is characteristically demonstrative of being in the range of SCD, but y'know, "self pathologize & you're guaranteed to be the asshole in the situation", right? I know, no point in giving up looking, even if it's a disheartening process (& the ADHD makes the directionless search of it & constant confusion & dead ends REALLY hard to keep initiating, time & again, to boot). Just got to find one person who'll eventually listen to change that pretty dramatically though. But yeah: consequentially, far from bored myself. Got to find the connections where you can. Not like it's a common enough brain type to get the reciprocity you're looking for irl. For me, just hearing what people who have gotten diagnosed are suffering with, attempting to externalize their struggles is really great context, so thanks for sharing. I only wish I could find stories of dis-confirmation too, to balance out any propensity to self-pathologize, for lack of any consistent external redirection from professionals, on what I may be going through. Just seems like this is what I can relate to difficulty with most thoroughly, until I get to that.
My family, just screamed at me well into adulthood. To me, I feel like I did more than my best to please them. I told my brother that I had been diagnosed and he was just plain nasty, saying I had another excuse. If they came to see me and seen what I accomplished maybe they would see that I'm not ignorant or stupid.
Thank you so much for sharing this educational experience. My 6 year was diagnosed with ADHD last year in kindergarten. We have been picking up signs of Asperger and trying to get assistance. So many things you described I can to relate with my son. He has been responding better to the teachable moments. Thank you. Thank you for sharing resources on how we can better help him and our whole family.
Other kids are mean towards those who they find different - it's as simple as that. Don't blame the victims of mean kids and bullying. Sure, people can be insensitive and not think through what they say, but that does not make them exempt blame. I believe "asperger kids" go though life with very high expectations put upon them and then they expect the same level of thoughtfulness and restraint from others around them. And when that doesn't happen we get mad. And often quite rightfully so.
You can either change the world or change yourself. If everyone has a problem with my behavior, it’s most likely something I need to fix. It’s not victim blaming or excusing bullies’ actions to tell kids with Asperger’s they shouldn’t insult the intelligence of their peers.
25:30 If restraining orders were a thing people would reflexively do in my country, I would probably had that too. I am forever grateful to the woman who took her time to explain why it didn't work out. I still don't have a partner, but I've accepted that. The ASD + ADHD concept is still new to me but this video has been helpful.
Bella and I could be the same person. My diagnosis is ADHD, but when I was diagnosed in 1993 Aspergers wasn't yet in the DSM. I flirt with the idea of seeking further diagnosis, but I can never decide if it's worth it. One of my sons and one of my brothers are diagnosed with Autism, and another brother has an ADHD diagnosis from early childhood. My son was diagnosed at age 10, and my brother with ASD was in his late 40's before he was diagnosed. My mom suspected Aspergers since he was a toddler, but didn't bother to do anything to help him. I have no doubt that my other brothers and father have ASD as well. My dad and two of my brothers have genius level intellect, but my brother with ASD and myself don't quite meet that threshold. In high school I learned how to fake normalcy relatively well, but to the point that I come across as dull to people I am not comfortable with. I was prescribed with imapramine as a child, but it basically turned me into a zombie. I tried Ritalin in high school, but it had no effect on me. I maintain that I was never hyperactive, but came accross that way because of my excessive stimming.
Love this guy. So knowledgeable, so compassionate and just speaks in such a straight forward way, offering many real life relatable examples of behaviour, rather than spiel that’s hard to understand.
Dr. Brown, thank you for your scholarship, your clinical skills, your great understanding, wisdom, compassion, and kindness, and for all of your excellent work over the years. You have made a profoundly positive difference in the lives of so many in this world, and we are forever grateful to you.
on a surface level you'd think so, but if they did, they'd probably just be the ones clicking through the spam for herbal cures at best (...more likely parents realistically for that, sure, but y'know...). Problem teachers who need to hear this kind of stuff generally just hear these kinds of anecdotes & think kids are being coddled & spoiled. Why those people go into positions of educational careers is beyond me, but they really seem to feel a calling in life, revisiting their abuses & limitations on countless impressionable youths. Getting through to changing that requires less direct exposure to empathy, more in consideration of their values instead. Data from studies on behaviorism & incentive structures on motivation probably would pay way bigger dividends both on getting through & taking steps towards meaningful change. I mean neurodivergent needs were better met by implementing the VARK model, even though that had no credible data behind it. It got implemented though because it was effective change that way beneficial for everyone and realistic to implement changes in service to the proposed needs. Imagine what you could get if you actually proved something implementable that was supported by data, like how masking hurts development & autistic people communicate with in-groups of other autistic kids with less communication failures, to demonstrate the need for bridging translation gaps...
I sometimes wonder if ASD and ADHD type personality traits, which often co-occur in many people, might actually represent a much evolutionary older form of 'normal' in human behavior. If you think about it, in their higher functioning manifestations, these traits can be quite advantageous in the natural environment. The love of repetitive motion and routine (ASD) could have been harnessed for all sorts of adaptive technological things like spinning wool, grinding corn, gathering nuts and seeds, or making stone tools, whereas the ability to be hyperactive, quick and impulsive, and notice changes in finer details of the environment (i.e. distractions within ADHD) could have been clearly an asset in tracking and hunting. Only once cities and civilizations were built upon the backs of these hard-working and talented people, would the evolution of neurotypical traits and social politics become more useful. Has anyone out there ever seen any academic study of this idea? I would love to see a video exploring this possibility. BTW - I am a biologist by training, not a psychologist.
I agree and believe ADHD and ASD are part of the reason humanity still exists, if it were not for those who could be exceptional in certain situations, there would exactly would humanity be without us diagnosed
100% honestly like most things in life everything is ass backwards. We are the smart, evolved humans and the "normals" neurotypicals are the popular dumbstruck people of a society that won't last bc vanity kills all
Yes yes yes! I do a lot of things like sewing and meticulous handcrafts and am an archer. Folks would have not survived without us. I have been feeling the same suspicions for a while. Even before I knew I was actually "ND". I reckon I am the "normal" one!
I strongly agree with you. I connect a lot with animals and plants. I am 45. My aunts and my mom too. I am good with maths physics, music, any kind of hand craft like wood, wool, etc, I can create and solve problems, out of whatever resource I have, and I am also a musician. I learn languages fast too. However, I struggle terribly in this society. I can see a bird among building, that no one notice, I can see any subtle movement like a spider moving on the floor. A change in te wind direction, smells, hiper sensitive. Lots of skills that could have been really great in the past. But nowadays make my life miserable in an over stimulating environment like the city. (From Argentina, 45 y.o. never diagnosed but surely add/asperguer woman. Btw, first time sent to psychology I was only 6 y.o. when I was IQ tested, and told my mom I had the mind of a 13 y.om back then. and I went to many Dr. in my life, but they are not trained at all here about asd/ADHD specially in adults)
people with adhd learn in the best case to protect themselves wich is pretty hard. and outstanders react like you can do this with no effort..... and the thing it allways comes back at is people saying i know this feeling everybody does. it is not the same if you have 24/7 but hard to explain
For parents looking for physical therapy, occupational therapy, and/or speech therapy for their kiddos: call rehab clinics ahead of time (before the initial eval once referred by your PCP) and ask about the therapist's experience with autism/adhd and if they have taken any continuing education that targets those populations specifically. Sensory regulation is a huge part of behavior for these kiddos and often the key to success, so make sure your rehab therapists are trained in it!
Damn this hits home hard, I was diagnosed at 4yo and as well in later years as ADHD, PTSD, GAD highish IQ of 119 yet im a complete failure alcoholic, prior poly drug addict, been in jail for more than 5 years and have nothing, due to my inactive nature, I can't even make phone calls at times, or even keep an appointment. Yet give me a scheme to make money and I can do it, its a disaster of a life to live.
That’s my attitude. One of my favorite things about being autistic is I know who the real friends are. My friends and I don’t put up a front for the world, so we don’t have to navigate fake friendships.
I also agree that it was a mistake to remove Asperger's from the DSM. I have received pushback about this opinion in many of the autism groups I am in. Many people are offended And associate the distinction with an "I'm better or smarter than you attitude" But that is simply not the case. Not having that distinction has been more harmful in my opinion for those who are not diagnosed to believe me when I tell them I am autistic. I am constantly met with disbelief.
It's still there under the umbrella. Asperger saved some kids and sent others to the death camps. I'm glad the name has changed. Perhaps a Sophies' Choice situation in some sense, but I don't know that. As well, there was a Russian womans work came before his and was late in publishing in translation but was translated into German. He would have been aware of that work. So not really all about him to be fair. So, the better than you are is not part of my rational. I'm ADHD and I'm Autistic. Autism is Autism is what I believe. Then there are the same add ins as with NT people. If they removed Aspergers name for something else perhaps...
@@cautionhumanbeing749 correct that it's under the umbrella but not everyone agrees with it. As the speaker said in the beginning of the video there are many different types in identified anxiety disorders. Why don't we just put all of the anxiety disorders under the umbrella term of generalized anxiety? Because each neurotype and mental health disorder can have different causes and treatments. I understand The horrible history of the perceived non-intelligent being sent to death camps and no one is condoning that in present day. We should acknowledge that and condemn it. History is real and has real consequences but that doesn't negate possible reasons for distinctions of current day diagnosises
A lady from social services said she was sorry they never protected me. But they destroyed my life . I was labelled lab ratted and character assassinated . My parents abused me mentally and physically. Also I was physically gang attacked and sexually abused because I had no one. Society and drs toi Ed me of me . I’m 53 was diagnosed last year. Also kids have different learning styles and they force square pegs in round holes.
I 100% relate and it makes me sick to my stomach that society values lying over calling a spade a spade People aren't honored for allowing the truth to set you free. There honored for giving courtesy lies, deceptions and people pleasing I feel for you sister and am on my own path to try to educate other humans we aren't narricists we don't understand the purpose of social niceties and not sharing your own experience honestly bc others aren't strong enough to process it
@@MsLadyKD I’m nice to those that’s nice to me. And I tell it how it is. If NTs can’t process truth facts and reality then that is their weakness not ours
Naturalist intelligence is ability to identify and classify things in complex systems. Understanding the complex interaction within ecosystems often comes easily to those with strong naturalist skills. This intelligence can be strong among individual with ADHD and ASD and utilized to boost other intelligences.
I think I present a form of ADHD and ASD. Both my parents were doctors, and my mother a psychanalyst. My struggles to adapt as kids were only labelled as "you are a smart kid, you are normal, you will get friends in college". Therefore up until recently my masking was nul... I am now trying to hide my emotions and learn social cues, like fake smiling and whenever I was bored my coping mechanism was fleeing or quitting. Now supposely I am going to be a trained psychiatrist where ADHD and ASD is barely consider a thing in my country. What I suffer the most is indecisivess and really poor executive functions. I can't switch task or adapt to a new information/situation without prior reflexion... Often I struggle to understand the life context of what people tell me and on top of that I say out loud what I think, without anticipation or second thoughts on how it may impact my audience. Really dont now what I will be doing.
I have this and I have a tested IQ of 148. My reading and writing are not very good but my ability to understand and do high end science is extremely high. I'm not going to lie I definitely struggle with feeling lonely. I have no one that understands my passion. Every conversation feels like small talk. They look at sports and weather, I look at loop quantum gravity, spinners, quantum feild theory, Condensed matter research and so one. But Because my talents were never recognized until I was older I'm Stuck as a CNC machinist with a passion for extreme physics.
I always dislike how much emphasis everyone in psychology puts on the ‘for a kid this age’, COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that kids mature at different speeds. One kid can be really smart at 12, but reached their ‘ceiling’ somewhat, while a more capable kid might only reach that at 14, but keeps on cognitively developing until 16 and reach a higher ceiling. I don’t understand how hardly any scientist researching development in kids lacks understanding of phase of maturity and how that can be so different between 2 outliers
The first group grows up being told they’re hyper-gifted, when in reality their cognitive potential was just reached earlier. The second group grows up being told they’re average (or even below if adhd/asd are involved) when at the end of their development have reached much higher states of giftedness. If you want obvious and visible examples, look at the world of high performance athletes. It has been proven over and over again for decades
I was completely ignored as a child. I was super smart, schoolwork was never difficult (until high school) and I was mute to anyone who wasn’t my mum, sister or brother. I never had any friends until grade 5 where I had 1 friend. I just couldn’t understand how everyone could just ‘talk’. To be honest I still haven’t worked it out. I used to sleep 14+hrs a day due to masking exhaustion. Diagnosed ASD at 38. Now trying to get help for my ASD, gifted and probable ADHD 7 year old.
Thank you Dr. Brown ! It is so interesting to learn how clinical psychiatry has approached an understanding of this topic. I was diagnosed hyperactive in the 1970's but have also known I was probably 'aspie' for a very long time as well. Your case reports all resonate strongly with my personal life journeys and prove there are probably alot more of us out there. As I am older now, I do not dwell on my differences with the world as much as in my younger days and I am reasonably happy in life. My advice to others like me is to accept and be proud of who you ARE (especially as a young person) and to approach one's confusion with the social world with humor AND humility. Your neurotypical friends in life will probably think you are a bit odd, but will mostly enjoy your uniqueness if you are accepting of it in yourself but don't always expect others to accommodate you. Take time to truly study those social situations that you find difficulty dealing with enough so that you can get by. Actively put yourself into these situations so you can eventually figure it out despite what may come. Yes masking is tiring so get away by yourself and escape into nature and exercise every day. Follow your dreams and ambitions with courage and find a career where your personality and special interests are a true strength. I was a zookeeper for many years. My hyperactivity was a big plus in getting the physical jobs done and my lack of eye contact made most animals very comfortable with my presence. Later I became a field biologist...and later still a computer/data scientist and college professor. I was surprised to find there are alot of probably misdiagnosed or undiagnosed folks in these professions and their clinically-defined challenges can, in the right situations, propel them to remarkable achievements. The world needs everyone right now, and although the 'labels' can seem demeaning, I think they are also quite helpful in the process of self-discovery and thus very worthy of this kind of academic study. Thank you again Dr. Brown for your life's work on this.
My daughter is 17yrs old has concerns of autism spectrum and adhd. But we had blood work done and she has hyperthyroidism and vit D deficiency. Diet is a big element. I have just been diagnosed with Graves Disease and have deficiencies in potassium and Vit D. I suffered my entire life with the label of General anxiety disorder. People need to make sure they are getting the right blood test before jumping to mental disorders.
For sure, although if they find that treatment for neurological divergences are really effective, then that is most likely the case, and blood work would be unnecessary
My sons were both diagnosed with ADHD, but not ASD. One still rocks and chews things up, he's 31. He sometimes has extreme anxiety to the point that I was afraid that he was schizophrenic. The other one chews toilet paper and has extreme anxiety, he is 29. They both still live at home. Neither was diagnosed with autism.
the rocking is an attempt to calm themselves, the chewing is a release of anxiety, also can be Pica. Be proactive, keep going to doctors until you find one that listens to you and the behaviors. Sometimes we don't get the right doctor who will help. You should feel great going to and leaving the doctor appointment. Good Luck with your journey 🧩🧩🧩💕🐈🐾
Please seek help ‘ support . Your sons need support to love independently . Slings like autism either way strategies and outside accountability will help . My son has benefitted from the OF for sensory diet & anxiety , a postive behaviour therapist & biomedical supplements. I expect he will live independently prob late 20s and his anxiety and sensory seeking is less as he is reminded to use his strategies until it’s a habit to self soothe
Your comment answered a question I have. That is, is the percentage of people who have aspies or are otherwise on the spectrum, is a percentage of people. There is no insight as to whether or how prevalent some of those cases share genetic code. That is to say how many are brothers and sisters. I have been diagnosed ADHD, MAD, GAD (also MS but that’s a wholly other thing) 8 kids in my family (all adults now) I see the behaviors in them consistent with behaviors attributable to ASD and I wonder: if I get that diagnosis, could they also present behaviors consistent with ASD? Could they achieve some level of understanding themselves by looking into it? 8 kids. 40% will have a measure of ASD. We are all “high functioning” except for me. Anyway thanks for reading this.
If ever a second opinion was needed it was needed for your sons.Clearly,it’s not just ADHD I hope you find a more competent Physician.Good luck,@Donna Hilton
@@josephmitchell204 Joseph Mitchell I am just a woman no doctor but you sound pretty high-functioning to me the type of things you're inquiring about are not for the faint of heart. I'm just learning about these things I started dating a guy I'm 65 and he's 58 he has cerebral palsy and that's all he thought he had but I recognized immediately that he wasn't making eye contact and was acting too shy I immediately figured he had Asperger's he says no he doesn't he's never been diagnosed with Asperger's and I'm sure he has it because of other behaviors when you get older and you start to try to have a relationship with a woman that's when Asperger's is really evident it really affects your ability to thrive in a emotional relationship marriage type thing just thought I'd put that out there to you. He doesn't realize that sometimes Asperger's goes along with other things like having Cerebral Palsy. You ask some really good questions.
Dr. Dobson states that ADHDers can do anything/everything well....if they're interested in it. I think this is what Joshua noticed about himself, not that other kids are talented, but that they could only do one thing well whereas he(Joshua) could do everything well. I, too, noticed this about myself as a child.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:06 📚 *Introduction to the webinar and the topic of ADHD and autism in smart kids and adults.* - Introduction to the webinar. - Mention of the umbrella diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. - Dr. Thomas Brown's expertise and background. 03:02 🧠 *Understanding the Different Types of Intelligence.* - Explanation of various types of intelligence by Howard Gardner. - Emphasis on personal and interpersonal intelligence. - Relevance to individuals with Asperger's syndrome. 09:39 📊 *Prevalence of Autism Spectrum and IQ Differences.* - Statistics on IQ distribution within the autism spectrum. - Focus on individuals with higher IQs. - Delayed diagnosis for those with higher IQs. 11:18 👦 *Case Study: Joshua, an 11-year-old with Asperger's Syndrome.* - Joshua's characteristics and struggles in school. - The impact of parental praise on self-perception. - Learning social skills and overcoming challenges. 20:04 👧 *Case Study: Bella, a 13-year-old with ADHD and Social Challenges.* - Bella's difficulties with executive function and social interactions. - Her emotional struggles and isolation. - Insights from teacher and parent perspectives on her behavior. 23:58 🌄 *Understanding the challenges of individuals with ADHD and Asperger's* - ADHD and Asperger's often co-occur in individuals. - Academic strengths and social interaction difficulties are common in this population. - Medication can be effective in managing ADHD symptoms. 34:08 📚 *Medication and treatment for ADHD in individuals with Asperger's* - ADHD medication can be highly effective when fine-tuned. - Monitoring and adjusting medication dosages is crucial for success. - Recognizing ADHD in individuals with Asperger's is vital to their educational and social functioning. 43:49 🧒 *Treatment recommendations for a seven-year-old with Asperger's* - Assess the child's behavior and consider if ADHD symptoms are present. - Collaborate with parents and teachers to provide targeted support. - Finding specialized therapists or professionals may require research and networking. 46:29 🧒 *ADHD and Autism Diagnosis Challenges* - ADHD and autism diagnoses can be challenging. - Seek information and support from pediatricians and other parents with similar concerns. - Fine-tuning ADHD medication is crucial for individuals with sensitive body chemistries. 49:12 📚 *Asperger's, High-Functioning Autism, and ASD Terminology* - Asperger's is now officially diagnosed as Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) Level 1. - The term "high-functioning autism" is not commonly used in the literature. - Differentiating between ASD subtypes can be complex. 51:12 👩🦰 *Gender Differences in ASD Diagnosis* - ASD is more prevalent in males, but it's not absent in females. - Many girls and women with ASD engage in camouflaging behaviors. - Diagnosis and recognition of ASD in girls and women can be challenging. 52:53 📖 *Changing the Definition of Asperger's Syndrome* - The decision to remove Asperger's from the DSM-5 was controversial. - Asperger's diagnosis could provide clearer guidelines for treatment. - Genetic similarities across ASD subtypes influenced the decision to unify them. 54:06 🆘 *Late ASD Diagnosis and Coping* - Late ASD diagnosis is common and can lead to missed support. - Connect with resources like Attitude magazine and Autism Parenting Magazine. - Finding professionals who understand ASD is crucial for late-diagnosed individuals. 57:04 😰 *Managing Anxiety in ASD* - SSRIs like Prozac and Zoloft are often used to manage anxiety in ASD. - Guanfacine can help with anxiety, especially when used alongside stimulants. - Tailored treatment is essential, and medication dosing should be gradual. 59:07 📚 *Beyond Medication: Therapeutic Approaches* - A didactic or coaching approach can be helpful in addressing ASD symptoms. - Teaching individuals with ASD social strategies and problem-solving skills is valuable. - Listening to and understanding their perspective is essential for effective support. Made with HARPA AI
I have chronic anxiety. It's terrible. I can't get a job and doing anything for money puts so much stress on me I cannot do the job. At that point it isn't up to my expectation and choice so I can't do it.
Where I come from in California I went to two behavioral learning schools, they were all on a singular bracket to show signs of mainstreaming into regular schools. But the problem is that the school had tested me for ADHD and found that it was conclusive, but the other needs I had which fell under nervous conditions and a and we're not diagnosed have affected me tremendously in my life. What startles me is that I have an excessively high vocabulary however I don't fit their model and I've been looking for how to prove what disabilities I have involving my social anxiety as well as my overall approach to people, there are times that I will spend weeks or months or excessive amounts of time avoiding social situations. Such as going to the store going to the doctor my last doctor's appointment was 3 years in waiting. I've been a part of the kcsos facility and have been a student for their program all the way up until 8th grade and then in high school I was part of the sales program which helped people with special needs. The issue with that is they overinflated the grades for participation you got graded more so for just participation rather than passing the class. I would like further knowledge on understanding what could be wrong because I feel that I was swept under the rug.
i'm waiting on an ADHD assessment on the NHS, they are slow as all hell and even forgot to send out a letter I require in order to progress to an official assessment. this just feels like it's going on forever.
I’ve had assessment by gp and mental health triage, which got me as far as the formal waiting list. I’m nearly a year through that with little hope of being seen within another year. I’m lucky in that my employer is willing to work with me on the assumption I have adhd to find accommodations rather than ignore me until formal diagnosis. This does help. Good luck with your wait and hope you do better than me re time scale.
@kevinedw2002 I've actually done this now. I went through psychiatry uk which is part of the right to choose scheme. They are a lot faster than the NHS and In about two months I'll be on medication.
There is so much grief and guilt for parents who didn’t realise their amazing kids were dealing with all the challenges of undiagnosed autism because the kids mask so well. The explosion of information and support available today just didn’t exist in the 90s. I wonder how many neurodivergent kids flew under the radar at the time…
14:40 don’t worry children can bully and terrorize children with ASD that are not considered intelligent. I went to a Catholic elementary school and high school and since my parents were divorced the school treated me as if I was evil. My marks were nothing to write home about and no one ever considered me special. When I moved to a new area my previous area was about a year ahead and so I requested to be placed in the next year, but they would not so instead I just went into advanced placement everything, 17 courses over four years. Chemistry, Physics, Math, French immersion, English, and History: I also was in a handful of sports; The environmental group; I worked two jobs (I made pizzas, and I was in the reserves - part time infantry); and I dated. My marks ranged from 78% to 95% in these enriched courses. So I went from a place where I got 19% in religion ka ass because I got thrown out for the term, or had to redo French because I missed so many classes and failed, or were placed in remedial English until the teacher decided I didn’t belong there and not only did I get put back in college prep but I didn’t have to write my exam that year because I got over 85%. I’ve tested as an IQ of 135, I have PTSD, severe ADHD as well as Aspergers and high functioning autism. Basically I’m saying you could be completely neglected at home, never seen a special, never received any sort of support or words of encouragement and still be severely bullied and beaten at school. Even at work, I managed to be the youngest in my basic training course in the military at 17 and still I came in first in my class. I was able to secure a United Nations contract that was highly competitive before leaving high school and despite these achievements my immediate supervisor use me as a sin eater for his narcissistic abuse and one of my section mates charged a rifle and pointed at me the first Saturday I was overseas. A number of other incidences occurred, and no one intervened even though a lot of people saw it. Through a rehabilitation program I was trained to be a jeweller even though I had no previous art experience. I didn’t do great at the art school, average marks, but I was with people that have been drawing and painting all their lives. I was at the university in computer science with a fine arts minor my case manager decided I should be a bench jeweller because I did well in the introductory jewellery course.
31:40 When my son was in elementary school I made it clear to him that the most important class he had was recess, I’m 47 now - this year I got diagnosed with ASD and ADHD - but even at 31 I knew that learning how to get along with your peers was something worth doing and something that’s takes work
I too was threatened with a gun in a similar manner to you though I was not in the military. Since then I vowed the next time someone threatens me with a gun like that, I will ensure that will be the last thing he ever does before meeting his maker. Needless to say, I have nothing to do with him. I have long known I have ADD or ADHD, but some of the traits people on the Autism Spectrum do apply to me as well. The fact nobody did anything about the threats and abuse against your says volumes about people in general, and none if it good. I too had a lot of negative experiences with neurotypicals, enough in fact that I am a recluse who wants as little to do with them as possible. Some only fuel dark impulses best not acted upon.
@@taras3702 empathy, here’s hoping these situations never repeat for us. Too much of my life has been on repeat. My wife and I are more than happy staying home. 2h30m of errands wore me completely out
Not available in full length to me due to excessive noise (in form of lip smacking) but those few sentences I did listen about treating are crucial. Very valuable information. Thank you for making time stamps.
I related to this video. I'm 65 now and took aderal for a couple of years in the 90's. It worked well but I couldn't afford it. I found that walking and fixing broke stuff was therapeutic. Now I have afib and though I now have insurance, no medical doctor will proscribed it and my mental health options are limited.
Yes, yes, yes! I got all As in college, the harder the class the better I did. But I failed miserably in the work place because I could only mask for so long before I would burn out on the people. Luckily I found an engineer to marry and we “get” each other’s weird need for total quiet and eating alone, no scented candle or perfumes etc. I now just drive a car around doing deliveries because I can control my sensory environment in the car and hardly deal with people except to say “hello, here’s your stuff”, they say thanks and I say “your welcome “ so basically it’s a script.
My youngest is on the Asperger Spectrum but not diagnosed until recently as a31 year old, ADHD from early in childhood. He told me when coming home from work one day "Hi mom, I am "peopled out", I'm going to go relax for a while ok?"
I get peopled out as well, work as a hairstylist and when I get home I don’t want to talk to anyone and just need down time by myself. love that expression your son shared.
I almost got fired when working in a shared office, where I was expected to answer telephone queries I avoided this like the plague, as unless I could script a conversation, I would flounder, forget to ask for specific information, and then completely forget the content of the call. I tried to explain my issues, but this was well before I was diagnosed with ADHD/autism
Adhd and Autism can coexist? A therapist in our young adult Autistics told one participant, it is an either/or Diagnosis, and he would have to decide which or leave the group. I guess, I have to look into this some more, since Ritalin aggravated my sensory integraton problems and was more disoriented while taking it. I lost my ability to work after a brain hemmorhage, age 37. But would really function better in every day tasks.
The DSM-IV said the diagnoses were mutually exclusive for ASD/Asperger’s and ADHD. The DSM-5 has changed that because it was wrong. Sounds like that therapist needs to read the DSM-5, which has been out quite a while now. The overlap is like 30-50%.
I've got both - but they are still assessed entirely separately, and seen by a lot of therapists as being mutually exclusive. More recent research suggests there may be a 20-80% overlap between the two
It concerns me that the experts responsible for crafting the DSM seem to be so far behind the subject matter experts like Doctor Brown and Dr Dodson. It makes you wonder who they consult when drafting the DSM updates... 🤔
I tried to get my son diagnosed. I told them I suspected ASD and that there were likely some learning disabilities as well, because his reading and writing skills were vastly different. They didn't even test him for any learning disabilities, or ASD. I don't know where to turn now. Neither of us have 'the spoons" to deal with those struggles again.
@Mp Alleviating some of the more difficult symptoms is all well and good, but I, like many many others do not see autism as something to be cured. Many of us want to live embracing our differences and find acceptance instead of being told that the thing that makes us different is something bad. My ADHD is something that I find difficult at times, but I wouldn't want to be "normal" for all the money in the world. It's amazing too, and so is autism.
@@GrammyAllen She didn't say she wanted a cure. She wants help with the difficult parts of autism. Most people have a mixture of good and bad when they have autism.
@@JoyLuxeHieroTarot Still no formal ASD diagnosis as well as dysgraphia. He's a junior in high school this year. We will figure out for sure if he will need college for his desired career, if he's correct and it's not then we may not seek a diagnosis. I will leave that up to him and only push him to try again at getting a full evaluation if he will need a structured education. We are able to homeschool and accommodations are built in.
@@GrammyAllen it sounds like you found a path that works, which is great. It’s a real shame that we are so far behind the mental health times in the USA though. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏽
It would be helpful to remove your face from tge camera and put the charts in tge camera while addressing the charts . One can’t barely see the different things on the chart when your face is being shared with the hart on the screen. Thank ! Everything was very interesting and you’re great at explaining what you’re talking about using much clarity and examples.
The self test was extremely frustrating, and had several questions that would really throw anyone on the spectrum, for instance, asking whether you talk to people at a party the same way you talk to co-workers at work; if you neither go to parties nor work with others (self employed, unemployed, etc) there is no way to answer the question. No way to say none of the above or not applicable. There were several of them. -do you like to play solitary games rather than team sports- No way to say that you do neither, ever. It just felt like another poorly designed test, and it totally stressed me out, rather than producing informed results. I should just give up these online surveys and inventories.
Yes I saw some of these they don’t allow us to express ourselves I scored 50% but were several questions I thought were inappropriate . I’m disabled physically so other stuff didn’t fit with that autism seems to think physical disability outside of autism doesn’t happen . I have prolapsed degenerative discs in my lower spine , gerd ibs and a skin condition and a eye problem some was not right to answer
Why would you play team sports at 53 with prolapsed degenerative disc disease and OA and this was adult assessments 🤣🤣. And some of us autistics did sports as a challenge to self in the military and to keep fit. And challenge pain barriers.
You say (timestamp 9:25-9:31) that the American science writer/SF writer Isaac Asimov was one of several famous people who “have come out and said they have Asperger.” Since Asimov died in 1992, and Asperger Syndrome wasn’t diagnosed in America till two years after his death (1994: DSM-IV), when and where was Asimov diagnosed with Asperger in time to “come out” with it before his death?
You realize the DSM isn't the only diagnostic manual right? I believe AS was added to the ICD-10 in 92. Plus there were publications in the assessment of AD going back to the 80s I believe. I do not find it hard to believe that he could have had an AS diagnosis at the time of his death. Even if he didn't have an official diagnosis, he could have self-assesed and came to that conclusion based on existing literature.
Hum maybe your title should say highly intelligent. So that anyone diagnosed before being an adult doesn't feel stupid. I am 56 and just starting the process of diagnosis.
I was dx with ADHD at 41 and ASD AT 42 AFTER My children's dxs. I'm still struggling. I have tried those meds and don't quite help. I never had hyperactivity. I have myself educating other professionals about my kids diagnoses, including teachers. This is so tired some.
I need help. I was already federally awarded but my state says they have no record of my federal dual concurrent awards. When I show them they toss it aside, and say my original awards are INADMISSIBLE? HELP
For me, the story about the guy at the law firm illustrates the cruelty and narcissism of many (not all) neurotypical people. Being late with projects is one thing but I mean imagine being so arrogant and entitled that someone calls to ask for a reference and you take it upon yourself to go out of your way to talk about them negatively, when they have done nothing bad to you at all but you are offended because they didn't massage your ego. It sounds like in that particular situation the guy did nothing wrong and the secretary had no business giving any kind of comment because she wasn't his manager. In my country that would be grounds for a law suit. I believe in being kind and respectful but I am honestly so sick of the expectation that we should go out of our own comfort zone to act extra friendly towards everyone just in case they choose to sabotage our career, especially when 1. they rarely deserve it 2. the courtesy is rarely reciprocated and 3. even if you make the effort they will sometimes choose to sabotage you anyway just because you are different.
ADHD medication calibration: it's pretty much chemical flappy bird, or someone trying to keep a balloon in the air by occasionally, with various rhythms and intensity; blow on it. Keep it from descending too close to the ground, but not so hard that it ascends into the sun. Icarus vs Hindenburg Syndrome sort of...
I was initially put on Ritalin, which did absolutely nothing. I'm currently trialling dexamphetamines, but (apart from heart palpitations) these seem to have little impact either. Not sure where to go from here...
To all the parents watching this video, take some test and look or a diagnosis. Experience and genetics, say big chances at least one of you, also have it in some form. And no one says shit about it. Period.
People with addiction issues often transfer that addiction. This election stuff gives the adrenaline of the battle and the release of positive reinforcement. He's "hooked" on this
I mask, but I was also moving around to different continents as a kid so nobody realised it. If they did they didn't do anything. So I don't have the ability to properly be independent, but to other neurotypical ppl I look just fine in that regard. It's only a matter of time though. I'm worried I'll end up homeless again :( I have a lot of specific issues and challenges esp with how my brain works. I can't handle bigger picture things or think that way. In reality, I can't even relate much to asd 1 ppl because it's very challenging in a way they don't seem to experience. If I'm diagnosed I'd expect maybe asd 2 at this point characteristically. My best friend is asd2 and we're quite similar. I worry for all my fellow autistics with how easy it can be to overlook those with asd 1 and even 2. It's such a broad spectrum, yet the challenges are there and v severe.
people with adhd do have smart stuff because they have to survive. everybody has to live and learn but someone who has adhd like me has to grow up fast to learn how to deal with things
I agree with the changes in DSM-V. Besides the issues with the namesake of Asperger’s, a separate term was given primarily due to an ableist lense. If a person with Autism had less trouble communicating verbally, or were a genius at something and therefore easily dealt with in society - then they were deemed to have Asperger’s which is like “Autism Lite”. That term does nothing to help people with Autism including people who were once diagnosed with Asperger’s because it paints Autism as a linear ableist spectrum and oversimplifies it.
I'm 35 and I've been officially diagnosed last year for ADHD after I self-diagnosed during the previous year; I'm now seeking for an ASD assessment. I KNOW I'm on the spectrum, too.
Believe me, you not alone. There is a ton of us out there, that thanks to these videos are finally coming to terms with the fact that it was ADHD all along
I got a NHS diagnosis at the age of 43, It was only after my niece got her ASD diagnosis I realized I had many symptoms. I saw my GP they somewhat agreed with me but wanted more evidence, I wrote a 4 page letter detailing my history and symptoms without this they wouldn't entertain sending me to a specialist. The first NHS consultant didn't know what the issue was but knew there was something different she applied for funding and the NHS paid for me to go see a specialist privet clinic in Nottingham the next consultant after talked to me on video for 2 hrs and told me I was ASD and also she recommending me for a ADHD specialist I scored 8-9 for the hypoactive section. What was really annoying for my is iv been going to the GP for 25 years prior with all the related symptoms got little help just having medication given me typically diazepam and antidepressants witch made everything worse.
My son has been diagnosed with ASD and ADD, he has speech impairments that makes it difficult for others to understand him. His psychologists think he's either average or below average in IQ, but me and most others, including his speech pathologist, claim he's gifted. How do we figure it out? At what point do we make an accurate assessment? He's just 6,5 years old, is very knowledgeable in many subjects and understands three languages as well as uses very advanced language, such as words and grammar compared to other kids his age. He prefers adults over other kids and has trouble with social interactions. He's usually very bored and uninterested in school.
I am speaking on personal experience as a mother of two boys on the opposite sides of the spectrum. It's very hard to differ between "gifted" and average, depending on how you look at that person. You will see things in your child in a comfortable setting, and they can display a great deal of intelligence. In the school setting, your child may feel differently and may not be able to do the same things that they are able to do in a different setting. It's all about their environment. lights noise, talking, anything can be a distraction. keep working with your child and you will find some areas light up better than others. Mine have extreme knowledge in certain areas and one is very intelligent, though he struggles in certain areas. Being gifted doesn't necessarily mean they're intelligent in every aspect. It could be Math, or Piano , Painting or Science, but they'll probably have an average score in reading or writing, or vice versa. The point is, you know your child best, set them free on where they are best and help them when they struggle in another area. None of us are good at everything. we all are individual and unique. as are all Autistics, what works for one, may not work for another. Never give up and keep trying until you both are happy with life. Be Blessed 🧩🧩💕🐈🐾
@@KITTKATT11 I know. There's a difference between talent and being gifted. I just don't like it when they imply he's stupid because they don't understand him. My biggest fear is that they're going to ignore him and not work on his strengths. I speak from personal experience of being gifted, all I did was stare out the window for 9 years. His teachers struggle to get him to focus, yet refuse to acknowledge the fact that they have 28 kids in that class. Of course he's going to get distracted. But once you have him alone, he'll do the work just fine (also something the school knows). He has no problem understanding words or commands or subjects, he just can't express them very well. His autism and adhd is playing a part, as is his age. But the way things are now he will hate school before it even starts properly. He's too smart for special ed schools (you need an intelectual disability for those), too difficult for normal schools and there's no in-between options. IQ is relative. It doesn't really say anything about your strengths and weaknesses, just your logical thinking skills. Anyone who knows him well agrees he's average or high above (still being on the normal side). You don't need an IQ of a 140 to be gifted, 115 and above is enough. It's still within the normal spectrum but higher than average (average is 90-110, normal 70-120).
@@SailorYuki sounds like the school system needs to be educated. Have you heard of any AI programs? Check your local community mental health department and find different services ? I had to hire an advocate to get my son the help he needed. (Certain places will wave the fee) You're going to have to get proactive and fight , or he could be lost in the system, like you said, they're not really equipped for his needs. It's his right to a FREE & APPROPRIATE EDUCATION by law. I put them in caps because those are the words to use. Help is out there. Contact everyone you can, don't take no for the answer, ask for a supervisor, management or another agency. Unfortunately we have to fight to get their needs met.
@@KITTKATT11 I'm already doing that. I had to fight to get him assessed and now to get him the education he needs. I'm not backing down. Unfortunately, profits are more important than children in my country and we're not American. There are other options but not untill he starts 4th grade. Homeschooling is illegal here, otherwise many parents to neurodivergent kids would keep them home. It sucks that we have to fight for the rights of children to get educated, just because they don't fit the cookie mould. I just wish I had the money to move to Finland. At least then he'd get the help he needs without us fighting for ever step of the way. Never give up, never surrender!
I’ve been given a diagnosis’s of Attention Deficit Disorder I’m 51, I was told I have A.D.D when I was 13. My pediatrician told my mother and wrote a letter and gave it to her to keep so I could get further help in school. He also gave me another letter when I was 20. Same letter. So I could get help in college. Had to prove I had a disability to the college. And now at 51 I’ve been told I have Social Pragmatic Communication Disorder. However I have a lot of Autistic traits. But they will not give me a diagnosis’s of Autism or that I’m on the Autism spectrum. I still need help I need an answer ?
What the heck is social pragmatic communication disorder I'm serious I've never heard of that. If I had to guess I would say Asperger's like you you said. I am having a or was having a little relationship with a man 58 I'm 65 and I'm sure he has Asperger's but he's never been diagnosed probably because even most regular doctors and psychologists are totally going to overlook the Asperger's thing especially in him because of his age and the fact that he also has cerebral palsy. I'm afraid if you went to a doctor or psychologist he would be able to mask so well they would just blow him off I'm positive he's got Asperger's let me tell you.
@@kayhansen9229 Primer Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder (SCD) is a disorder characterized by difficulty with pragmatics, or the social use of language and communication. This seen through deficits in understanding and following social rules of verbal and nonverbal communication in day-to-day contexts, an inability to change language according to the needs of the listener or situation, and difficulty following rules for conversations and storytelling. Epidemiology The incidence and prevalence of social (pragmatic) communication disorder is not well known, as it is a new diagnosis in the DSM-5. It is estimated that some form of pragmatic language impairment can affect up to 7.5% of children. Males are typically affected more than females, by a ratio of 2:1.[1] SCD is rare in children younger than age 4. By age 4 or 5, most children will have adequate speech and language abilities that will reveal specific deficits in social communication. Milder deficits may not be obvious until early adolescence, when language and social interactions become more complex. Comorbidity Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, language disorders, specific learning disorders, and behavioural difficulties are more common in these individuals. www.psychdb.com/child/communication/social-pragmatic-communication-disorder#:~:text=Social%20%28Pragmatic%29%20Communication%20Disorder%20%28SCD%29%20is%20a%20disorder,or%20the%20social%20use%20of%20language%20and%20communication.
@@fomalhauto thanks for the information I'm hearing a lot of new stuff on here that I've never heard before because so much has changed over the years used to be only a few designated learning disabilities. It sounds very complicated too.
My mom told me I "have autism" but considering her reaction to me wanting to get checked for adhd i doubt im diagnosed. Obviously Knowing I might have autism only made things make sense for me. I tried telling a guidance councelour about my issues with getting diagnosed because my mother wont let me, and the teachers just said that i was "too smart" to have either of them..... AND ITS FUCKING WITH ME RN- especially considering all three of the councilours think autistic and people with adhd are slow and stupid- WHEN WE LITTERALLY HAVE LIKE AUTISM REPRESENTATION IN MEDIA THAT ARE SMART LIKE GENIUSES- LIKE RISE DONNATELLO, AND ENTRAPTA- not saying that I'm a genius, in fact im very slow- im just so mad they think autistic people cant be smart-
How do you get your "life partner", your lifetime "significant other" to seek help so that you can both stop suffering decade after decade, when they won't ever talk about anything they don't want to?
Is it reasonnable to assume that children with ASD level 2 and 3 could equally be affected by ADHD. To the own admission of Dr Brown, DSM 4 did not allow to give the diagnisis of ADHD if the child was diagnosed with ASD, this was only changed in 2013, when DSM 5 was introduced!!! When you have a child with ASD on level 2 or 3, you go from one doctor to another being told that there is nothing to treat him, however attention deficit might be at the corner stone of the cild difficulties and there might be medication to help that. Or is this because the dose and the medication are more difficult to define when the child has issues expressing himself that doctors do not want to look at this?
What to do if you already take a barbiturate to control seizures and a stimulant scares the heck out of you? Any medicine that affects my brain is scary
So here’s the thing. Those of us that HAVE learned how to memorize social cues and trained ourselves what is expected behavior in social situations (masking) get incredibly burned out and go into shutdown mode. These shutdowns can last an hour, weeks and sometimes months. We absolutely can not force ourselves to interact causing us to lose jobs, friendships and/or have issues at school. You can teach a person all day everyday how they “should” act or behave but if is not in alignment with who they are and what their true nature is then you’re causing more harm than good. As to the parents that praise their child and then the child has expectations for themselves that are too high…. I guess this can partly be true, but for those of us with Aspergers, we naturally have high expectations for ourselves. Most things that are intellectual come to us fairly easy so when we come across something that doesn’t we get extremely disappointed in ourselves. We then project that onto people who could potentially help us, thinking they will also be disappointed that we didn’t know it and we freeze. Not asking for help. I did not grow up with parents who praised me and still have this issue in myself.
Your comment is interesting to me because I have an undiagnosed boyfriend well he was my boyfriend just trying to stay friends with him now and here I am 65 and he 58 he's never been diagnosed with Asperger's he thinks he doesn't have it what he does have also is cerebral palsy so he has thought that all of his life that this was what made him different and he thinks he's very smart smarter than anybody probably which he is but he also has Asperger's and doesn't get the emotional stuff I've tried to tell him that he's got Asperger's but he rejects it. What I'm thinking is maybe he realizes there's something he doesn't get and he's disappointed in himself used to thinking he's so smart and then all of a sudden Here Comes this woman who he thought was dumber than dirt but yet she's got something on him and he can't explain it. He would like to just think I'm dumb and I don't know what I'm talking about especially cuz I don't give a rat's ass about computer and technology and electronic I'm an artistic creative person but my ex was a psychologist and I just have that personality type that picks up on these things. It's important though because right now he's dragging himself around doing a menial labor type of job because he didn't get along with those at work I feel like if he knew he had Asperger's and could learn how to get along with people better or getting to a job that appreciates and asp ie that would be better. For him especially because he really needs a desk job so that he can use his brain and not his damn body which isn't working too good.
Agreed
@Dr Yuching Lee You can’t “reverse” autism according to everything I’ve learned about it. This is dangerous.
@Dr Yuching Lee Autisim is not a disease. It cannot be cured. It's a difference, and it's beautiful.
obviously mainly the issue is in audiences being misaligned in expectations, never thought of it consciously as a pre-emptive effort to avoid disappointing intellectually, but yeah, I think that's a fair take. my parents just thought I was lazy, not that I wasn't praised per se, but the pattern remains. Very common pattern to present as more competent than we should be, in many areas, socially too. Gets a lot of resent, people figuring it's intentional or that we're more independently capable than we are.
I’m late diagnosed with both. I fell between the cracks because of being female and a very highly camouflage/masking ability.
even my psychiatrist took a few months to digest the diagnosis and accept Asperger for the camouflaging lol
at least you got there: congrats. I'm almost 40 & still looking myself, finding it hard enough to just find people who'll attempt adult evaluations, let alone understand the comorbidity factors & how they co-effect from more typical presentations, let alone ideally not charging thousands just to attempt an evaluation which is apt to not consider the former or therefore be anything I can validate that kind of expense on. I know I'm good at masking, I know my script runs deep, I know it is an adequate simulation of emotional intelligence by now to reasonably compensate even though it's exhausting, but will they see that, or just say I'm not autistic? can't throw 4 figures at just any person willing to just try listening for the typical signs, let alone each...& just finding one of those qualifications on people feels like a needle in a haystack. No one seems to appreciate why I'd want more labels of a pathology people don't typically want, like the aimlessness of guessing is better.
I'm old now and in final stage of ASD evaluations and too many parallels with ADHD people and figures to ignore. Getting that checked out eventually.
I spent nearly my entire life studying people as though I was an alien undercover, watching the strange party of Humanity through the window, never really joining in. Then when I tried things usually went wrong. They behave how they feel like without stopping to think first and it all goes well for them. I try that, backfires spectacularly. I now overthink literally everything and every decision from tiny to life-changing.
I can actually understand the normies, and the problem is, many of them I've encountered really, really are S T U P I D whether they have good-intent or not.
Then I get ND people telling me that when I say: "some ND people are more intelligent than others" this means I'm an evil Fascist. They're as devoid of critical thinking skills as the worst normies and they've arrived at a strange egotistical narcissism eerily similar to the worst normies.
As though I'm anything like the extremely dysfunctional end of the scale who need 24/7 care and sometimes spend their whole lives in hospital and should group myself with them for the sake of their feelings at the expense of my own well-being, independent thinking, autonomy, agency, and sanity.
People are dumb every which way and I'm so tired of feeling like an alien being oppressed by pond-life from every angle at once.
@@Kelos7 yes, exactly! At age 50, I attempted an official diagnosis but fell through the cracks once again. I have learned to mask so much in life. I suffer so much from imposter syndrome so that doesn't help either. At my age, I doubt I will ever get the needed help, so I try to learn what I can to help myself.
@@michaelchildish I related to what you commented on. My life is often very painful and confusing. I get pissed at how much I have missed in life, at how no Dr ever asked the right questions, at how much I have blamed myself for being a fucked up person who is quite bright, but never could do life like regular people. I have faked, pretended and masked for 68 years and am so tired. I find myself considering 'exit plans' because I don't know what else to do at this late date.
This made me emotional. This talk explains exactly how my life went. Started school at the top of the class. Everything was so easy, I could read anything , was even taken around the school, class to class, to read for all the teachers. Felt like a performing monkey. As I grew older I became very anxious and preferred to withdraw. As I was older, my artistic ability seemed to stand out and I was treated like a prodigy by my teachers. However, I didn’t really have parents and ended up in a lot of trouble because the world became more confusing as people were also. Trying to cope with it all made me suicidal. I eventually was institutionalised for suicidal tendencies and depression. All this probably could have been so different if only I had some understanding as a child and given proper care. But then that can be the case for any child I guess.
Neuropsychological evaluation was the most important thing I've done in the diagnosis path, got diagnosed at 30 y/o and it has been very helpful for me
7 years ago I used to work with motorcycle deliveries, failed at 2 universities attempt already, depressive and hopeless, all changed once I switched from operational to cognitive work, now I'm a self taught programmer, I read books on different topics that interests me, which I didn't used to, and by stimulating my brain a bit more on my own pace has been very helpful, just have to work some stuff still, but it's way better than before, but I still kind of feel a bit off of society lol
hope you have a good weekend ^^
Yeah, I did very well in school until I ended up in Psychiatric Hospitals at age 15. I graduated highschool but couldn't cope with college. I made 3 attempts and then dropped out. They misdiagnosed me a lot. I haven't accomplished much.
Yeah top classes at school till around 13-14 years of age, didnt really even try, just came naturally, then the slow decent, didnt get stuff done, started wagging class lots as I hated sttting in a boring class for an hour, socially very few friends, really none if Im honest lol. Only diagnosed with ADHD at 50, suspect I may have a touch of autism as I'm not bad at maths, only done online IQ tests which I know are probably shit, but give a bit of an idea I guess, usually around the 120 mark. Can retain loads of useless facts as well but cant tell you what I had fro breakfast this morning lol
@@Sara-wv3ms Not true. "Just focus on your relationships" makes that sound easy. It is often very difficult. When relationships are difficult, it can be better to focus on something more enjoyable - like your interests, hobbies, learning something new through courses, etc.
Oh I feel for you, I wish all children could be acknowledged for their sensitivities!
is stifling how much suicide, suicide attemtps and molestation accompanies those of us with asbergers... dealt with this my whole life... our gullible, innocent, ignorant selves are bullied and told to stop being so sensitive.
This literally explains my life and struggle and nearly all women misdiagnosed as bipolar or borderline personality or narcissistic or learning disabled
To say the pain of being misunderstood, disliked, hated, judged, condemed, criticized, reprimanded, called crazy/wierd/different/quarky/stupid, a bitch, inconsiderate of others feelings, self pitying, pathetic, fake, domineering, to sensitive, over reacting, not listening, lying, and asked to be someone I'm not in order to please social norms has and
is excruciating is an Understatement
I'm incredibly grateful for the few around me that get me even though I burn them out (imagine being in my life of trauma with this misdiagnosed issue your whole life) and then being told your not allowed to be confident or proud of self when most others have no idea the momenumental effort I've displayed to be a citizen in society and not blow my brains out cause the world doesn't want who I LOVE to be but they find uncomfortable and hurtful
I'm extremely grateful I've always had music and dance as an outlet... bc it's safe to stim, be loud /expressive and Alone as a dancer, singer where others can watch and enjoy my gifts rather then be hurt/burned by them
Please society stop putting us down just because we physically "look" normal but don't act normal... to many of us ALL neurotypicals seem boring, constrained, inauthentic, robotic, programmed, predictable, judgmental, snooty, privileged, unintelligent, tricksters/lying for pleasure and self righteous.
You have no idea how much Accomdating WE are doing for how annoying your social events and shallow small talk is to us.... we just don't shit on it all the time the way you do on us. We show up for YOU not for ourselves. If it was up to us we'd stay home and play with our animals and our own imaginations.
Omg! Yes, girl!
Wow! You have no idea how much those close to you suffer because if you could, you'd realise what you are doing and then it wouldn't be the abnormality you have. People close to those with ADHD, Asperger's syndrome, etc suffer terribly so.
Wow- Every word wow. ❤ I recognize every human is different, but I’m so sorry you, or anyone else, knows exactly how I think & feel about such specific soul-crushing realities all of our lives. ❤ All the best- Thank you so very much for sharing.
I can relate to this so much! I used to have a hard time thinking about everyone (neurotypical) who had it "so easy" and sailed through life! All the bullying, abuse, etc when I was trying SO HARD to fit in!
I still struggle to make small talk. I find it really boring when all people want to talk about is what they're wearing, who's cooler than whoever, what the latest tv show craze is... it's exhausting. To me, the "neurotypical" folks were the ones who abused and bullied me the worst, so I have enormous trust issues with people I'm only meeting the first time. The mask is up, the guards are up. I've learned to keep to scripted dialogues to manage myself during times when I'm forced to "small talk" in order to network as a mother (important for the social well being of my children), and occasionally as an engineer in the automotive industry. There are very few people I feel free to be myself around without reserve.
I find my reserve to make my default stance towards "neurotypical" strangers to be one of profound distrust- I often have trouble seeing them as anything but phony or shallow. This is a huge disservice to them and something I have to actively manage during my interactions. Often times, it's only when someone "neurotypical" becomes vulnerable about a struggle they have that I feel at all comfortable around them. Their vulnerability enables me to see that they are capable of genuine connection and that they've honored me with entrusting their struggle to me. I've struggled so much, that often it's the only way for me to genuinely relate to those who don't share one of my special interests. Which stinks because not many people in general can be vulnerable like that.
I've found that several of my special interests (relating to my work- anything manufacturing, automotive, steel related) to be beneficial for me as they align with how I make my living. It's just... relating to people outside of work outside with my other "special interests" (gardening, running, psychology, etc) is difficult as not many share them and I've had difficulty opening up and sharing with others from past experiences growing up.
I think sometimes it's harder for the "normal looking" high functioning ASD folks to live up to the expectations of those around us, especially when we don't "get it." Fitting in is often short lived and we tend to fall out of the broader social circles. I've learned to mask so well that sometimes I wonder who I am at times, what do I look like as a person without forcing myself to show up publicly as neurotypical. Fortunately the landscape around this is changing. I'm blessed to live where I do- there's a high concentration of engineers and likely just as high a concentration of those similarly on the spectrum,. This makes it easier for me to be open about the "nerd" I am to others like me. Also, my son who's aspie like me is owning and rocking the NERD title. He wears it like a badge of honor- and it's beautiful to see!
THIS IS 100% Truth!
I am one of the missed diagnosis people you describe. My father also. He got his diagnosis after he turned 60. The adhd ruined most of his life it was very sevre and untreated.
I had top grades all through school except in math because I hated math and had no interest or patience for it. I had no idea it was adhd or even what that was. I got through all the way to university with straight A grades but inside i knew i was coasting and struggling. I have managed to ge through life in spite of not knowing the name of my "demon" , but not well. Its been an absolute battle. But I have become a master of masking, hiding my shortcomings, emotions, addictions and problems.
But i have, in spite of abnormally high iq, not been able to finish any higher education to speak of, unfinished projects pile up, no social life to speak of, financial difficulties and general under achievement and not being able to fulfill my potential. People around me always ask me about what happened to all the great things I was lined up to achieve in life: " oh I thought you where at uni" or "oh I thought she was at the music academy". I feel I have tapped into about 5 to 10 % of my potential. I have been surviving, not living. My mental noise, restlesness and suffering have gotten in the way completely. I'm 39 yrs old now and about to start diagnosed treatment. I'm so hopeful and excited and hope and treatment can change my life in a big way. I am dying to see my life's work come to fruition: I hope the help I can get will be the key to my focus and ability finish work/ achieving my goals.
Totally with you. Wish there was something we could tell each that would help, but it’s clear that our population is not yet well understood, much less has anyone become expert enough to help us meaningfully (medications have been useless for me, and of course therapy cannot overcome my dysregulation and impulse control issues. Struggle on knowing you are not alone.
This is so close to my backstory I had to do a double take despite knowing I didn't type this. But literally everything you wrote is so close to my upbringing and struggle I can barely believe I didn't write this myself. (Even our ages and the age of our fathers are exactly the same.)
You pretty much just described me. I'm 38.
just turned 37 & 100% the same story (with more of an art / math / programming slant). getting a diagnosis for ADD was a no brainer (I respond to SSRI as expected, tada), but the autism presentations after decades of coping mechanisms? forget it. totally unrecognizable / counter-to autism presentation to 90% of medical professionals, leading to immediate dismissal. glad to make any progress, but really infuriating to get help with only partial diagnosis that doesn't really get at the core symptoms holding me back too.
Me too! :-)
It's absurd how muchs these storys resonate with my life experience....(diagnosed ADHD as 32 yo, self-identifed ASD.)
Thank you so much! I’m 43 and have searched for answers almost my entire life. Just knowing and having people that post things that help are so relieving! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
I'm 56 and gave just been diagnosed with ADHD/autism. It's nice to (finally) know that all the feelings of alienation, of not really understanding the world, and struggling academically even when considered bright, has an explanation other than me being stupid freak. Being able to talk with other people with similar experiences is genuinely helpful, as most people simply don't understand what it is like
As soon as I saw the Joshua case study my heart dropped. I had to stop the video and cry. The only difference is that I was embarrassed about "being smart" and I tried to hide it and pretend I was less intelligent than I was. I never really had to try with homework or anything, and I learned to speak in a way that was relatable to other people. It kind of worked, but I thought about ending it all often. I remember praying, actually praying, that I could be a little less smart. My thoughts were overwhelming and I thought it would be easier if I had less of them. This was before I understood that I was ADHD and autistic.
@@rockymntain That doesn't make you unique. It's fortunate that your opinion is of little consequence; I just wish there were fewer of you. People like you keep people like myself and my son from seeking assistance when we really could use it. I did not attend public school until 5th grade, because my mom did not want me to be relegated to special ed classrooms and sedated. Things have come a long way in three decades though, and my son is able to get some assistance in 1st grade. Also, since you're so smart, I'm truly surprised you aren't aware that "gifted" is, in fact, part of special education. My defect is in social skills, emotional regulation, and physical ability, not intelligence.
@@rockymntain Essentially, what you are saying is "you pass, so I don't believe you." Imagine telling a hard of hearing person "you read lips so well, you aren't really deaf." Yes, I have passing privilege. I can mask pretty well, in part because I'm intelligent.A person with glasses is not blind, but they are still visually impaired and need support (glasses.) They just don't need as much support as a completely blind person.
What I said to my mom " I'm a misfit freak that has worked harder then anyone I know but has nothing to show for it, life would be so much easier if I was normal"
BTW that statement was made 10 years ago BEFORE I had even heard the terms neurotypical or Autism
I remember someone saying to me "you're brilliant but do you ever shut up, it seems you're always talking but not listening"
I always felt listening to neurotypicals literally makes me dumber... which apparently then makes me appear as a conceited narricist
Also listening to lying, half truth, half lying, preplanned power playing neurotypicals makes it impossible to look them in the eye or sit still when they talk... (which makes us ASD look inconsiderate or unempathetic) I'm not consenting to ingesting your poison While you stare into my pure soul. The one you actually are jealous of and wish you had but instead attack bc you refuse to accept the parts of yourself you or others don't like
The disconnect between the person on the screen not talking, and somebody else talking but we can’t see them, is taking all my attention. That being said, super appreciate this information and the work that you put into it.
Being an only child is a different kind of upbringing. For better and for worse. I was better off as an only child as our home was pretty quiet and I needed that.
Yes you think Youre God
Both my daughters. I have told my eldest she will have to get herself diagnosed, because the harder I try, the more I am "that mom" and the closer we move to having Social Workers on our doorstep as a "problem family". The school won't help, because neither girl is disruptive, quite the opposite. The older girl used to have a melt down every time I collected her from school. Shaken bottle syndrome. They all assumed she hated me. Fortunately my younger girl is a cuddler and runs into my arms. But she is equally distraught by her inability to socialise. Sometimes she has a good spell, other times bad, and she withdraws. However, in the UK you have to just shut up or pay the consequences. My eldest, I remember going for parents evening and the very same teacher who said she had no problems, showed me her desk. Every other kid's desk was free of clutter, my daughter's was a mass of marbles, stones, string, wool, parts of toys, feathers, that she had collected over time. But a perfectly normal kid, apparently. 😡
As an ADDer i agree about the medication part. Though I'd like to add the importance of recognizing that different brands of the same substance can make a huge difference! Many adhd ers agree with me on this. There have been many reports on side affects over the last years since changes have been made regarding this subject.
My son is also an only child who we have praised him for his hard work. He also has stuggled in some of his gen ed high school classes. He got his very first D this term. While it is important to build up his strengths, we also acknowledge that he has weaknesses and has to work harder than others sometimes. Fortunately, even though his social skills are not as strong as others, the students at his school have really accepted him for the person he is, and he has become very popular. The adults I work at at my school have noted how well he is accepted and liked. I think not only do we need to build our children up, we need to acknowledge their weaknesses too. It is a beautiful thing to see a whole school of children who have learned uncoditional acceptance of people who are unlike themselves. I credit these amazing students, the school, and the parents who have raised good children.
How wonderful you have found a school like that, with incredible human beings, now if it could be duplicated and spread worldwide what an amazingly wonderful world it could be.
So many times highly intelligent students are able to coast through many of their classes, (especially some curriculum that does not challenge them academically), that when they encounter a truly challenging course, they flop. They get used to things being easy for them all the time and accept that as the rule.
I've seen this in high school graduates who are over-confident in their abilities that go into college level courses. They take on a whole boatload of classes and fail quite spectacularly. They are placed on academic suspension and usually don't finish, because the coursework is not the watered down (slop) material taught in so many high schools nowadays.
We learn in a very logical, conscious way and tend not to pick things up by osmosis like neurotypicals, and because no-one bothers to explain social interaction (even when you ask them politely) we're often left in the dark. This is compounded in children as we simply don't know what we don't know.
Another thing I never see getting brought up is the effect of bullying and exclusion on the developing brain. I was abused pretty severely as a child and _the only thing I could do_ was tune out/dissociate. Instead of looking purely at brain chemistry and trying to medicate the problem away, look to environmental factors and treat these kids for stress and trauma.
Exactly I’ve been told I have PTSD not from my service in Bosnia either from U diagnosed autism , trauma and the stuff in the above post. I was bullied home and school and work and in the community. Rich autistics get a lot more support and means to fight back than poor ones trust me. And I’ve had no support
Very good response. I think a lot of us have CPTSD even just from childhood bullying. A lot of women with ASD have also been rape victims. It adds up
Yes😊
@@ThunderThighs4pibblesit does
There's a saying in the autism community that sums it up: "Nothing about us without us". I'm in my 50's and recently diagnosed as autistic / Aspergers. I also test very high on IQ tests - top 2%. I was diagnosed as "hyperactive" back in the 70s in first grade by a school psychologist, and have suffered with extreme anxiety and depression for most of my life. I've had severe social and career difficulties despite graduating cum laude with a professional degree in architecture, and going on to become lisenced and to both teach and practice architecture professionally. Ketamine infusion theraphy litterally cured my anxiety and depression back in 2018. Dr. Brown is fantastic, but I wish there was was someone like me with Autism /ADHD / Gifted IQ included in this discussion.
The most important perspective is that of people with autisim when trying to help people with autism. Obviously.
PS: Ya see? That snarky comment at the end? That's one of the things I tend to do socially without realizing how it tends to put people off. It's an expression of frustration and anger directed at the way I've been bullied, excluded, and misdiagnosed most of my life. Autism ultimately expresses itself as a set of fundamentally benign but diverse character traits / quirks born of our atypical neurology. The same atypical wiring that gave me my intelectual and artistic creativity made me seem a little odd to typical people. The harm I've expereienced has litterally all come from external social and interpersonal abuse and ignorance directed at forcing me to conform to unwritten yet generally accepted social norms.
I'm willing to meet neurotypical society's norms to the extent I'm able to recognize them, but only if I'm treated with respect. That starts with inclusion.
#actuallyautistic
definitely how those things are recieved, but I don't know if it's always out of bitterness. sometimes for sure, but I personally do it moreso often, like a japanese "よ": an assurance that you should know this; we're on the same page. try not to let your self-talk get too dark just because of how often we're misunderstood.
I am all this, but at 54 I feel like a chemical rat and all I want is to be able to operate without medication. People don't get us!!! Even pshyco therapy is useless unless you have someone who completely "gets it"! I often just have to tell myself it's useless to try and explain something to someone who is adamant to misunderstanding me, and they actually feel sorry for me! I just smile and walk away because my heart bleeds at the fundamental arrogant stupidity of most people. Don't get me wrong, I do have beyond normal apathy for humans and the like, but I feel somewhat frustrated and misunderstood 🙃 😅
@@reneedwards1082 This why efforts to help autistic people must be lead by autistic people. In dialog with neurotypical people of course, because we are a tiny minority, and we don't understand them anymore than they understand us. It's litterally their world. If they want the benefits that come with tolerance and acceptance of human diversity, they need to accept the challenges these things bring as well. It all starts with inclusion. I don't need pity or empathy or compassion. Those things are useless. What I need is acceptance, and it's what I've offered my entire life to nuerotypical society, only to be misunderstood and rejected and abused by it.
I don't resent ordinary people for this. It's understandable given how different I am, and how much normal human social structures rely on conformity to function.
But I refuse to participate in society unless it makes a good faith effort to understand, accept, and include me and people like me in it. I'll only participate to the extent neccessary to survive and pursue my own interests. I've sacraficed enough at this point, and it hasn't helped society or me.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience 100 percent correct!! I've also got to a point in my life where I isolate, not only because I've burnt out and need to recharge, but also out of frustration. Unfortunately I've ended up cutting my hair meticulously to the point of perfection as a stimming to relax but could do so much more if I wasn't this extreme ocd as well. So too i open myself up to be judged because I'm either reading too much, writing too much, thinking too much, as well as excessive heavy duty stimming such as painting and project management of building and design on a big property. I don't want to bore you but there are so few people you can talk to and relate to and the frustration just builds up. Also the frustration to get to the point of critical perfection in understanding when no one understands or cares to understand you cause it's not that critical for them.
@@reneedwards1082 totally understand that myself: I never have anyone who gets why the talking helps, and it really doesn't help that my whole household is nothing but social anxiety driven introverts who don't get the drive to blurt, so their brains go into seizures the moment I talk about oversharing anything. And anyone who doesn't get the AS / SCD side of it themselves gets really burned out, really fast, even more so those who I could otherwise find kinship with who are just ADHD. My brain fire keeps going & I watch them glaze over, & try to wrap up as fast as possible for the social grace of it, but it just keeps going...
Only really have 2 choices being more blind to it: do that & deal with the alienation, or say nothing, not masking, & make them really uncomfortable with the projected judgementalism that comes with it. Skip context & lose them, or add context & drown them, it always feels like there's no winning, and people's advice if you do get it is always just to add the *right* context they actually needed, like I have a chance in hell of knowing what that's going to have been each time, or like that wasn't exacerbating the whole issue they just complained about to add more information on top of information overload.
Currently un-diagnosed for that (past ADHD), and really that's the aspect I relate to above everything else, more characteristically & typical to conventional autism presentations, which I am otherwise, often, pretty empirically counter to by now in life. I'm nearing 40, & while to some extent we're always neurologically divergent from "neurotypicals" (we all know that's a label for no one real of course), a lot of it is only developmental aging deltas from the norm, and between the time span of aging, decades past when people measure those differences, not getting real help back then for it back then, & the coping mechanisms I developed along the way to avoid / compensate for those differences / social blindness leading me to a more masked, socially accepted presentation, I don't get a lot of rapport there.
For example, I've always been super indolent as far back as I can remember, & stimming just overstimulates me further if I try. Like my whole body gets more electric charge running uncomfortably through me from it, maybe I'm just more kinaestheticly focused than some. There's also a strong possibility I have pretty formative trauma around presenting it, as I had parents divorcing at an early age & always had to present as healthy, to not get one parent in trouble for their rearing practices. I get very uncomfortable just having my wife like...bob her leg, pretty conventionally, so my coping is the opposite from most: turning inward, detaching, & turning my whole attention onto processing the flood of sensory input, like water flow. But that's backwards from what people are looking for, even though internally it's in many ways consistent in motivation, just an individualized coping manifestation, so I get dismissed as not anything on spectrum pretty easily, out of hand when I demonstrate the only coping mechanism I ever knew being something else. A few key features are like that for me, motor skills & body language too: I was just raised kind of feral & have...weird strategies consequentially.
There's no one I can really talk to about even determining if I'm anything officially worth diagnosing as on spectrum & getting that external corroboration if that's what I've been suffering with. Can't find anyone that does adult testing who doesn't charge thousands out of pocket, not taking any insurance & have years long waiting lists to boot, even if they agree to see me to consider evaluating me. Even if I do find that, the longer I wait, the harder it is to detect my issues as what is considered "on spectrum", so meanwhile I'm divided from what little community I find I relate to, by yet another layer without that diagnosis. Seems to me the ubiquitous difficulty in even communicating why I want it is characteristically demonstrative of being in the range of SCD, but y'know, "self pathologize & you're guaranteed to be the asshole in the situation", right? I know, no point in giving up looking, even if it's a disheartening process (& the ADHD makes the directionless search of it & constant confusion & dead ends REALLY hard to keep initiating, time & again, to boot). Just got to find one person who'll eventually listen to change that pretty dramatically though.
But yeah: consequentially, far from bored myself. Got to find the connections where you can. Not like it's a common enough brain type to get the reciprocity you're looking for irl. For me, just hearing what people who have gotten diagnosed are suffering with, attempting to externalize their struggles is really great context, so thanks for sharing. I only wish I could find stories of dis-confirmation too, to balance out any propensity to self-pathologize, for lack of any consistent external redirection from professionals, on what I may be going through. Just seems like this is what I can relate to difficulty with most thoroughly, until I get to that.
My family, just screamed at me well into adulthood. To me, I feel like I did more than my best to please them. I told my brother that I had been diagnosed and he was just plain nasty, saying I had another excuse. If they came to see me and seen what I accomplished maybe they would see that I'm not ignorant or stupid.
Thank you so much for sharing this educational experience. My 6 year was diagnosed with ADHD last year in kindergarten. We have been picking up signs of Asperger and trying to get assistance.
So many things you described I can to relate with my son.
He has been responding better to the teachable moments.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing resources on how we can better help him and our whole family.
Other kids are mean towards those who they find different - it's as simple as that. Don't blame the victims of mean kids and bullying. Sure, people can be insensitive and not think through what they say, but that does not make them exempt blame. I believe "asperger kids" go though life with very high expectations put upon them and then they expect the same level of thoughtfulness and restraint from others around them. And when that doesn't happen we get mad. And often quite rightfully so.
Yeah, some autistic kids might be stuck up but almost all autistic kids are bullied even if they are nice. Different people usually get bullied.
You're in no position to judge the well balanced, this is part of your ailment. However it's always good when the genuine are talking about it.
@@r.martin3494 What are you talking about?
You can either change the world or change yourself. If everyone has a problem with my behavior, it’s most likely something I need to fix. It’s not victim blaming or excusing bullies’ actions to tell kids with Asperger’s they shouldn’t insult the intelligence of their peers.
Dam' straight
25:30 If restraining orders were a thing people would reflexively do in my country, I would probably had that too. I am forever grateful to the woman who took her time to explain why it didn't work out. I still don't have a partner, but I've accepted that. The ASD + ADHD concept is still new to me but this video has been helpful.
Bella and I could be the same person. My diagnosis is ADHD, but when I was diagnosed in 1993 Aspergers wasn't yet in the DSM. I flirt with the idea of seeking further diagnosis, but I can never decide if it's worth it. One of my sons and one of my brothers are diagnosed with Autism, and another brother has an ADHD diagnosis from early childhood. My son was diagnosed at age 10, and my brother with ASD was in his late 40's before he was diagnosed. My mom suspected Aspergers since he was a toddler, but didn't bother to do anything to help him. I have no doubt that my other brothers and father have ASD as well. My dad and two of my brothers have genius level intellect, but my brother with ASD and myself don't quite meet that threshold. In high school I learned how to fake normalcy relatively well, but to the point that I come across as dull to people I am not comfortable with. I was prescribed with imapramine as a child, but it basically turned me into a zombie. I tried Ritalin in high school, but it had no effect on me. I maintain that I was never hyperactive, but came accross that way because of my excessive stimming.
Love this guy. So knowledgeable, so compassionate and just speaks in such a straight forward way, offering many real life relatable examples of behaviour, rather than spiel that’s hard to understand.
Dr. Brown, thank you for your scholarship, your clinical skills, your great understanding, wisdom, compassion, and kindness, and for all of your excellent work over the years. You have made a profoundly positive difference in the lives of so many in this world, and we are forever grateful to you.
Wish every teacher would watch this channel.
on a surface level you'd think so, but if they did, they'd probably just be the ones clicking through the spam for herbal cures at best (...more likely parents realistically for that, sure, but y'know...). Problem teachers who need to hear this kind of stuff generally just hear these kinds of anecdotes & think kids are being coddled & spoiled. Why those people go into positions of educational careers is beyond me, but they really seem to feel a calling in life, revisiting their abuses & limitations on countless impressionable youths.
Getting through to changing that requires less direct exposure to empathy, more in consideration of their values instead. Data from studies on behaviorism & incentive structures on motivation probably would pay way bigger dividends both on getting through & taking steps towards meaningful change. I mean neurodivergent needs were better met by implementing the VARK model, even though that had no credible data behind it. It got implemented though because it was effective change that way beneficial for everyone and realistic to implement changes in service to the proposed needs. Imagine what you could get if you actually proved something implementable that was supported by data, like how masking hurts development & autistic people communicate with in-groups of other autistic kids with less communication failures, to demonstrate the need for bridging translation gaps...
Dr. Brown, thank you so much for all of your excellent work, and for your tireless efforts to share your knowledge and wisdom with the world.
Diagnosrd at 54
A life of trauma and madness
At leadt now i know now that im not a naughty lazy las
Same!
@@SamanthaGJones was that in UK?
I sometimes wonder if ASD and ADHD type personality traits, which often co-occur in many people, might actually represent a much evolutionary older form of 'normal' in human behavior. If you think about it, in their higher functioning manifestations, these traits can be quite advantageous in the natural environment. The love of repetitive motion and routine (ASD) could have been harnessed for all sorts of adaptive technological things like spinning wool, grinding corn, gathering nuts and seeds, or making stone tools, whereas the ability to be hyperactive, quick and impulsive, and notice changes in finer details of the environment (i.e. distractions within ADHD) could have been clearly an asset in tracking and hunting. Only once cities and civilizations were built upon the backs of these hard-working and talented people, would the evolution of neurotypical traits and social politics become more useful. Has anyone out there ever seen any academic study of this idea? I would love to see a video exploring this possibility. BTW - I am a biologist by training, not a psychologist.
I agree and believe ADHD and ASD are part of the reason humanity still exists, if it were not for those who could be exceptional in certain situations, there would exactly would humanity be without us diagnosed
100% honestly like most things in life everything is ass backwards. We are the smart, evolved humans and the "normals" neurotypicals are the popular dumbstruck people of a society that won't last bc vanity kills all
Yes yes yes! I do a lot of things like sewing and meticulous handcrafts and am an archer. Folks would have not survived without us. I have been feeling the same suspicions for a while. Even before I knew I was actually "ND". I reckon I am the "normal" one!
I strongly agree with you. I connect a lot with animals and plants. I am 45. My aunts and my mom too. I am good with maths physics, music, any kind of hand craft like wood, wool, etc, I can create and solve problems, out of whatever resource I have, and I am also a musician. I learn languages fast too. However, I struggle terribly in this society. I can see a bird among building, that no one notice, I can see any subtle movement like a spider moving on the floor. A change in te wind direction, smells, hiper sensitive. Lots of skills that could have been really great in the past. But nowadays make my life miserable in an over stimulating environment like the city. (From Argentina, 45 y.o. never diagnosed but surely add/asperguer woman. Btw, first time sent to psychology I was only 6 y.o. when I was IQ tested, and told my mom I had the mind of a 13 y.om back then. and I went to many Dr. in my life, but they are not trained at all here about asd/ADHD specially in adults)
people with adhd learn in the best case to protect themselves wich is pretty hard. and outstanders react like you can do this with no effort..... and the thing it allways comes back at is people saying i know this feeling everybody does. it is not the same if you have 24/7 but hard to explain
For parents looking for physical therapy, occupational therapy, and/or speech therapy for their kiddos: call rehab clinics ahead of time (before the initial eval once referred by your PCP) and ask about the therapist's experience with autism/adhd and if they have taken any continuing education that targets those populations specifically. Sensory regulation is a huge part of behavior for these kiddos and often the key to success, so make sure your rehab therapists are trained in it!
Damn this hits home hard, I was diagnosed at 4yo and as well in later years as ADHD, PTSD, GAD highish IQ of 119 yet im a complete failure alcoholic, prior poly drug addict, been in jail for more than 5 years and have nothing, due to my inactive nature, I can't even make phone calls at times, or even keep an appointment. Yet give me a scheme to make money and I can do it, its a disaster of a life to live.
I get it bro
With you. 💜
The diagnosis isn't completely accurate.. this is brain injury caused by vaccines.
Proudly on the spectrum. All my friends are weirdos and so am I. Most people can’t handle me for too long, sucks for them.
That’s my attitude. One of my favorite things about being autistic is I know who the real friends are. My friends and I don’t put up a front for the world, so we don’t have to navigate fake friendships.
I also agree that it was a mistake to remove Asperger's from the DSM. I have received pushback about this opinion in many of the autism groups I am in. Many people are offended And associate the distinction with an "I'm better or smarter than you attitude" But that is simply not the case. Not having that distinction has been more harmful in my opinion for those who are not diagnosed to believe me when I tell them I am autistic. I am constantly met with disbelief.
It's still there under the umbrella. Asperger saved some kids and sent others to the death camps. I'm glad the name has changed. Perhaps a Sophies' Choice situation in some sense, but I don't know that. As well, there was a Russian womans work came before his and was late in publishing in translation but was translated into German. He would have been aware of that work. So not really all about him to be fair. So, the better than you are is not part of my rational. I'm ADHD and I'm Autistic. Autism is Autism is what I believe. Then there are the same add ins as with NT people. If they removed Aspergers name for something else perhaps...
@Dr Yuching Lee yuck. Spam. A healthy diet is a good thing for anyone but it's not going to cure autism.
@@cautionhumanbeing749 correct that it's under the umbrella but not everyone agrees with it. As the speaker said in the beginning of the video there are many different types in identified anxiety disorders. Why don't we just put all of the anxiety disorders under the umbrella term of generalized anxiety? Because each neurotype and mental health disorder can have different causes and treatments. I understand The horrible history of the perceived non-intelligent being sent to death camps and no one is condoning that in present day. We should acknowledge that and condemn it. History is real and has real consequences but that doesn't negate possible reasons for distinctions of current day diagnosises
I still identify as having Asperger's because my symptoms fit that specific diagnostic requirements perfectly. ASD is so generalized.
The thing is, Mr Asperger was a Nazi eugenicist. So thats what ASD Level 1 is for.
A lady from social services said she was sorry they never protected me. But they destroyed my life . I was labelled lab ratted and character assassinated . My parents abused me mentally and physically. Also I was physically gang attacked and sexually abused because I had no one. Society and drs toi Ed me of me . I’m 53 was diagnosed last year. Also kids have different learning styles and they force square pegs in round holes.
I am so sorry you had to endure that horrible treatment, Maria. I pray that your healing is so profound that it brings peace and joy to your soul.
I 100% relate and it makes me sick to my stomach that society values lying over calling a spade a spade
People aren't honored for allowing the truth to set you free. There honored for giving courtesy lies, deceptions and people pleasing
I feel for you sister and am on my own path to try to educate other humans we aren't narricists we don't understand the purpose of social niceties and not sharing your own experience honestly bc others aren't strong enough to process it
@@MsLadyKD thankyou
@@MsLadyKD I’m nice to those that’s nice to me. And I tell it how it is. If NTs can’t process truth facts and reality then that is their weakness not ours
@Tiana Malcom not here for adds and no kids .
Presentation begins at 4:17 l listened so you don't have too! 😊
This was incredibly helpful as an adult. Thank you
Naturalist intelligence is ability to identify and classify things in complex systems. Understanding the complex interaction within ecosystems often comes easily to those with strong naturalist skills. This intelligence can be strong among individual with ADHD and ASD and utilized to boost other intelligences.
I think I present a form of ADHD and ASD.
Both my parents were doctors, and my mother a psychanalyst. My struggles to adapt as kids were only labelled as "you are a smart kid, you are normal, you will get friends in college". Therefore up until recently my masking was nul... I am now trying to hide my emotions and learn social cues, like fake smiling and whenever I was bored my coping mechanism was fleeing or quitting.
Now supposely I am going to be a trained psychiatrist where ADHD and ASD is barely consider a thing in my country. What I suffer the most is indecisivess and really poor executive functions. I can't switch task or adapt to a new information/situation without prior reflexion... Often I struggle to understand the life context of what people tell me and on top of that I say out loud what I think, without anticipation or second thoughts on how it may impact my audience.
Really dont now what I will be doing.
I have this and I have a tested IQ of 148. My reading and writing are not very good but my ability to understand and do high end science is extremely high. I'm not going to lie I definitely struggle with feeling lonely. I have no one that understands my passion. Every conversation feels like small talk. They look at sports and weather, I look at loop quantum gravity, spinners, quantum feild theory, Condensed matter research and so one. But Because my talents were never recognized until I was older I'm Stuck as a CNC machinist with a passion for extreme physics.
I always dislike how much emphasis everyone in psychology puts on the ‘for a kid this age’, COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that kids mature at different speeds. One kid can be really smart at 12, but reached their ‘ceiling’ somewhat, while a more capable kid might only reach that at 14, but keeps on cognitively developing until 16 and reach a higher ceiling. I don’t understand how hardly any scientist researching development in kids lacks understanding of phase of maturity and how that can be so different between 2 outliers
The first group grows up being told they’re hyper-gifted, when in reality their cognitive potential was just reached earlier.
The second group grows up being told they’re average (or even below if adhd/asd are involved) when at the end of their development have reached much higher states of giftedness.
If you want obvious and visible examples, look at the world of high performance athletes. It has been proven over and over again for decades
@@Saerwon p r e a c h
I was completely ignored as a child. I was super smart, schoolwork was never difficult (until high school) and I was mute to anyone who wasn’t my mum, sister or brother. I never had any friends until grade 5 where I had 1 friend. I just couldn’t understand how everyone could just ‘talk’. To be honest I still haven’t worked it out. I used to sleep 14+hrs a day due to masking exhaustion. Diagnosed ASD at 38. Now trying to get help for my ASD, gifted and probable ADHD 7 year old.
Thank you Dr. Brown ! It is so interesting to learn how clinical psychiatry has approached an understanding of this topic. I was diagnosed hyperactive in the 1970's but have also known I was probably 'aspie' for a very long time as well. Your case reports all resonate strongly with my personal life journeys and prove there are probably alot more of us out there. As I am older now, I do not dwell on my differences with the world as much as in my younger days and I am reasonably happy in life. My advice to others like me is to accept and be proud of who you ARE (especially as a young person) and to approach one's confusion with the social world with humor AND humility. Your neurotypical friends in life will probably think you are a bit odd, but will mostly enjoy your uniqueness if you are accepting of it in yourself but don't always expect others to accommodate you. Take time to truly study those social situations that you find difficulty dealing with enough so that you can get by. Actively put yourself into these situations so you can eventually figure it out despite what may come. Yes masking is tiring so get away by yourself and escape into nature and exercise every day. Follow your dreams and ambitions with courage and find a career where your personality and special interests are a true strength. I was a zookeeper for many years. My hyperactivity was a big plus in getting the physical jobs done and my lack of eye contact made most animals very comfortable with my presence. Later I became a field biologist...and later still a computer/data scientist and college professor. I was surprised to find there are alot of probably misdiagnosed or undiagnosed folks in these professions and their clinically-defined challenges can, in the right situations, propel them to remarkable achievements. The world needs everyone right now, and although the 'labels' can seem demeaning, I think they are also quite helpful in the process of self-discovery and thus very worthy of this kind of academic study. Thank you again Dr. Brown for your life's work on this.
My daughter is 17yrs old has concerns of autism spectrum and adhd. But we had blood work done and she has hyperthyroidism and vit D deficiency. Diet is a big element. I have just been diagnosed with Graves Disease and have deficiencies in potassium and Vit D. I suffered my entire life with the label of General anxiety disorder. People need to make sure they are getting the right blood test before jumping to mental disorders.
Look into Fragile X permutation carriers.
For sure, although if they find that treatment for neurological divergences are really effective, then that is most likely the case, and blood work would be unnecessary
My sons were both diagnosed with ADHD, but not ASD. One still rocks and chews things up, he's 31. He sometimes has extreme anxiety to the point that I was afraid that he was schizophrenic. The other one chews toilet paper and has extreme anxiety, he is 29. They both still live at home. Neither was diagnosed with autism.
the rocking is an attempt to calm themselves, the chewing is a release of anxiety, also can be Pica. Be proactive, keep going to doctors until you find one that listens to you and the behaviors. Sometimes we don't get the right doctor who will help. You should feel great going to and leaving the doctor appointment. Good Luck with your journey 🧩🧩🧩💕🐈🐾
Please seek help ‘ support . Your sons need support to love independently . Slings like autism either way strategies and outside accountability will help . My son has benefitted from the OF for sensory diet & anxiety , a postive behaviour therapist & biomedical supplements. I expect he will live independently prob late 20s and his anxiety and sensory seeking is less as he is reminded to use his strategies until it’s a habit to self soothe
Your comment answered a question I have. That is, is the percentage of people who have aspies or are otherwise on the spectrum, is a percentage of people. There is no insight as to whether or how prevalent some of those cases share genetic code. That is to say how many are brothers and sisters. I have been diagnosed ADHD, MAD, GAD (also MS but that’s a wholly other thing) 8 kids in my family (all adults now) I see the behaviors in them consistent with behaviors attributable to ASD and I wonder: if I get that diagnosis, could they also present behaviors consistent with ASD? Could they achieve some level of understanding themselves by looking into it? 8 kids. 40% will have a measure of ASD. We are all “high functioning” except for me. Anyway thanks for reading this.
If ever a second opinion was needed it was needed for your sons.Clearly,it’s not just ADHD I hope you find a more competent Physician.Good luck,@Donna Hilton
@@josephmitchell204 Joseph Mitchell I am just a woman no doctor but you sound pretty high-functioning to me the type of things you're inquiring about are not for the faint of heart. I'm just learning about these things I started dating a guy I'm 65 and he's 58 he has cerebral palsy and that's all he thought he had but I recognized immediately that he wasn't making eye contact and was acting too shy I immediately figured he had Asperger's he says no he doesn't he's never been diagnosed with Asperger's and I'm sure he has it because of other behaviors when you get older and you start to try to have a relationship with a woman that's when Asperger's is really evident it really affects your ability to thrive in a emotional relationship marriage type thing just thought I'd put that out there to you. He doesn't realize that sometimes Asperger's goes along with other things like having Cerebral Palsy. You ask some really good questions.
Sounds so familiar, and with an ACE score of 9/10 (adverse childhood experiences), so no wonder I'm disabled at 42 & still undiagnosed.
😥
Ditto - I scored 9/9 and 7/9 on my ASHD/autism assessments - at least that's one test I performed well on! I'm 56, by the way!
Dr. Dobson states that ADHDers can do anything/everything well....if they're interested in it. I think this is what Joshua noticed about himself, not that other kids are talented, but that they could only do one thing well whereas he(Joshua) could do everything well. I, too, noticed this about myself as a child.
Are you talking about James Dobson?
I do like the stories and profiles Dr Brown shares! The anecdotes characterise the people well.
Thank you. I'm going to listen to it again in the near future.
It might help some individuals to listen twice.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:06 📚 *Introduction to the webinar and the topic of ADHD and autism in smart kids and adults.*
- Introduction to the webinar.
- Mention of the umbrella diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.
- Dr. Thomas Brown's expertise and background.
03:02 🧠 *Understanding the Different Types of Intelligence.*
- Explanation of various types of intelligence by Howard Gardner.
- Emphasis on personal and interpersonal intelligence.
- Relevance to individuals with Asperger's syndrome.
09:39 📊 *Prevalence of Autism Spectrum and IQ Differences.*
- Statistics on IQ distribution within the autism spectrum.
- Focus on individuals with higher IQs.
- Delayed diagnosis for those with higher IQs.
11:18 👦 *Case Study: Joshua, an 11-year-old with Asperger's Syndrome.*
- Joshua's characteristics and struggles in school.
- The impact of parental praise on self-perception.
- Learning social skills and overcoming challenges.
20:04 👧 *Case Study: Bella, a 13-year-old with ADHD and Social Challenges.*
- Bella's difficulties with executive function and social interactions.
- Her emotional struggles and isolation.
- Insights from teacher and parent perspectives on her behavior.
23:58 🌄 *Understanding the challenges of individuals with ADHD and Asperger's*
- ADHD and Asperger's often co-occur in individuals.
- Academic strengths and social interaction difficulties are common in this population.
- Medication can be effective in managing ADHD symptoms.
34:08 📚 *Medication and treatment for ADHD in individuals with Asperger's*
- ADHD medication can be highly effective when fine-tuned.
- Monitoring and adjusting medication dosages is crucial for success.
- Recognizing ADHD in individuals with Asperger's is vital to their educational and social functioning.
43:49 🧒 *Treatment recommendations for a seven-year-old with Asperger's*
- Assess the child's behavior and consider if ADHD symptoms are present.
- Collaborate with parents and teachers to provide targeted support.
- Finding specialized therapists or professionals may require research and networking.
46:29 🧒 *ADHD and Autism Diagnosis Challenges*
- ADHD and autism diagnoses can be challenging.
- Seek information and support from pediatricians and other parents with similar concerns.
- Fine-tuning ADHD medication is crucial for individuals with sensitive body chemistries.
49:12 📚 *Asperger's, High-Functioning Autism, and ASD Terminology*
- Asperger's is now officially diagnosed as Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) Level 1.
- The term "high-functioning autism" is not commonly used in the literature.
- Differentiating between ASD subtypes can be complex.
51:12 👩🦰 *Gender Differences in ASD Diagnosis*
- ASD is more prevalent in males, but it's not absent in females.
- Many girls and women with ASD engage in camouflaging behaviors.
- Diagnosis and recognition of ASD in girls and women can be challenging.
52:53 📖 *Changing the Definition of Asperger's Syndrome*
- The decision to remove Asperger's from the DSM-5 was controversial.
- Asperger's diagnosis could provide clearer guidelines for treatment.
- Genetic similarities across ASD subtypes influenced the decision to unify them.
54:06 🆘 *Late ASD Diagnosis and Coping*
- Late ASD diagnosis is common and can lead to missed support.
- Connect with resources like Attitude magazine and Autism Parenting Magazine.
- Finding professionals who understand ASD is crucial for late-diagnosed individuals.
57:04 😰 *Managing Anxiety in ASD*
- SSRIs like Prozac and Zoloft are often used to manage anxiety in ASD.
- Guanfacine can help with anxiety, especially when used alongside stimulants.
- Tailored treatment is essential, and medication dosing should be gradual.
59:07 📚 *Beyond Medication: Therapeutic Approaches*
- A didactic or coaching approach can be helpful in addressing ASD symptoms.
- Teaching individuals with ASD social strategies and problem-solving skills is valuable.
- Listening to and understanding their perspective is essential for effective support.
Made with HARPA AI
I have chronic anxiety. It's terrible. I can't get a job and doing anything for money puts so much stress on me I cannot do the job. At that point it isn't up to my expectation and choice so I can't do it.
Where I come from in California I went to two behavioral learning schools, they were all on a singular bracket to show signs of mainstreaming into regular schools. But the problem is that the school had tested me for ADHD and found that it was conclusive, but the other needs I had which fell under nervous conditions and a and we're not diagnosed have affected me tremendously in my life. What startles me is that I have an excessively high vocabulary however I don't fit their model and I've been looking for how to prove what disabilities I have involving my social anxiety as well as my overall approach to people, there are times that I will spend weeks or months or excessive amounts of time avoiding social situations. Such as going to the store going to the doctor my last doctor's appointment was 3 years in waiting. I've been a part of the kcsos facility and have been a student for their program all the way up until 8th grade and then in high school I was part of the sales program which helped people with special needs. The issue with that is they overinflated the grades for participation you got graded more so for just participation rather than passing the class. I would like further knowledge on understanding what could be wrong because I feel that I was swept under the rug.
psychological testing, neuro-psychological testing, and neurological testing
@@fomalhauto go test yourself; you need Christ.
@@faybelle2991 keep the magical thinking nonsense to yourself, please.
i'm waiting on an ADHD assessment on the NHS, they are slow as all hell and even forgot to send out a letter I require in order to progress to an official assessment. this just feels like it's going on forever.
I’ve had assessment by gp and mental health triage, which got me as far as the formal waiting list. I’m nearly a year through that with little hope of being seen within another year. I’m lucky in that my employer is willing to work with me on the assumption I have adhd to find accommodations rather than ignore me until formal diagnosis. This does help. Good luck with your wait and hope you do better than me re time scale.
Took me about 8 months to find a psychiatrist to perform an assessment - even then, he only assessed me for ADHD, not ADHD/autism.
@kevinedw2002 I've actually done this now. I went through psychiatry uk which is part of the right to choose scheme. They are a lot faster than the NHS and In about two months I'll be on medication.
I have finally found my people! ❤
Excellent presentation, thank you. This has helped answer a lot of my questions regarding my own children.
There is so much grief and guilt for parents who didn’t realise their amazing kids were dealing with all the challenges of undiagnosed autism because the kids mask so well. The explosion of information and support available today just didn’t exist in the 90s. I wonder how many neurodivergent kids flew under the radar at the time…
Watching this video gives me butterflies in my stomach
14:40 don’t worry children can bully and terrorize children with ASD that are not considered intelligent. I went to a Catholic elementary school and high school and since my parents were divorced the school treated me as if I was evil. My marks were nothing to write home about and no one ever considered me special.
When I moved to a new area my previous area was about a year ahead and so I requested to be placed in the next year, but they would not so instead I just went into advanced placement everything, 17 courses over four years. Chemistry, Physics, Math, French immersion, English, and History: I also was in a handful of sports; The environmental group; I worked two jobs (I made pizzas, and I was in the reserves - part time infantry); and I dated. My marks ranged from 78% to 95% in these enriched courses. So I went from a place where I got 19% in religion ka ass because I got thrown out for the term, or had to redo French because I missed so many classes and failed, or were placed in remedial English until the teacher decided I didn’t belong there and not only did I get put back in college prep but I didn’t have to write my exam that year because I got over 85%. I’ve tested as an IQ of 135, I have PTSD, severe ADHD as well as Aspergers and high functioning autism.
Basically I’m saying you could be completely neglected at home, never seen a special, never received any sort of support or words of encouragement and still be severely bullied and beaten at school.
Even at work, I managed to be the youngest in my basic training course in the military at 17 and still I came in first in my class. I was able to secure a United Nations contract that was highly competitive before leaving high school and despite these achievements my immediate supervisor use me as a sin eater for his narcissistic abuse and one of my section mates charged a rifle and pointed at me the first Saturday I was overseas. A number of other incidences occurred, and no one intervened even though a lot of people saw it.
Through a rehabilitation program I was trained to be a jeweller even though I had no previous art experience. I didn’t do great at the art school, average marks, but I was with people that have been drawing and painting all their lives. I was at the university in computer science with a fine arts minor my case manager decided I should be a bench jeweller because I did well in the introductory jewellery course.
31:40 When my son was in elementary school I made it clear to him that the most important class he had was recess, I’m 47 now - this year I got diagnosed with ASD and ADHD - but even at 31 I knew that learning how to get along with your peers was something worth doing and something that’s takes work
I too was threatened with a gun in a similar manner to you though I was not in the military. Since then I vowed the next time someone threatens me with a gun like that, I will ensure that will be the last thing he ever does before meeting his maker. Needless to say, I have nothing to do with him. I have long known I have ADD or ADHD, but some of the traits people on the Autism Spectrum do apply to me as well. The fact nobody did anything about the threats and abuse against your says volumes about people in general, and none if it good. I too had a lot of negative experiences with neurotypicals, enough in fact that I am a recluse who wants as little to do with them as possible. Some only fuel dark impulses best not acted upon.
@@taras3702 empathy, here’s hoping these situations never repeat for us. Too much of my life has been on repeat. My wife and I are more than happy staying home. 2h30m of errands wore me completely out
Not available in full length to me due to excessive noise (in form of lip smacking) but those few sentences I did listen about treating are crucial. Very valuable information. Thank you for making time stamps.
UA-cam also has auto-generated transcripts, would those help? I agree, very valuable!
I related to this video. I'm 65 now and took aderal for a couple of years in the 90's.
It worked well but I couldn't afford it. I found that walking and fixing broke stuff was therapeutic.
Now I have afib and though I now have insurance, no medical doctor will proscribed it and my mental health options are limited.
Thank you. Compassionate and clear ❤
Yes, yes, yes! I got all As in college, the harder the class the better I did. But I failed miserably in the work place because I could only mask for so long before I would burn out on the people. Luckily I found an engineer to marry and we “get” each other’s weird need for total quiet and eating alone, no scented candle or perfumes etc. I now just drive a car around doing deliveries because I can control my sensory environment in the car and hardly deal with people except to say “hello, here’s your stuff”, they say thanks and I say “your welcome “ so basically it’s a script.
My youngest is on the Asperger Spectrum but not diagnosed until recently as a31 year old, ADHD from early in childhood. He told me when coming home from work one day "Hi mom, I am "peopled out", I'm going to go relax for a while ok?"
I get peopled out as well, work as a hairstylist and when I get home I don’t want to talk to anyone and just need down time by myself. love that expression your son shared.
I almost got fired when working in a shared office, where I was expected to answer telephone queries I avoided this like the plague, as unless I could script a conversation, I would flounder, forget to ask for specific information, and then completely forget the content of the call. I tried to explain my issues, but this was well before I was diagnosed with ADHD/autism
I need this dr.brown help badly and my life and health depend on it.
32:10 I so much feel called out personally, right now.
damn, my relationships are a mess.
Thanks you two
Adhd and Autism can coexist? A therapist in our young adult Autistics told one participant, it is an either/or Diagnosis, and he would have to decide which or leave the group.
I guess, I have to look into this some more, since Ritalin aggravated my sensory integraton problems and was more disoriented while taking it.
I lost my ability to work after a brain hemmorhage, age 37. But would really function better in every day tasks.
The DSM-IV said the diagnoses were mutually exclusive for ASD/Asperger’s and ADHD. The DSM-5 has changed that because it was wrong. Sounds like that therapist needs to read the DSM-5, which has been out quite a while now. The overlap is like 30-50%.
I've got both - but they are still assessed entirely separately, and seen by a lot of therapists as being mutually exclusive. More recent research suggests there may be a 20-80% overlap between the two
Since the DSM5 came out in 2013, dual diagnosis is possible.
It concerns me that the experts responsible for crafting the DSM seem to be so far behind the subject matter experts like Doctor Brown and Dr Dodson. It makes you wonder who they consult when drafting the DSM updates... 🤔
The insurance companies. /s ... maybe not
I tried to get my son diagnosed. I told them I suspected ASD and that there were likely some learning disabilities as well, because his reading and writing skills were vastly different. They didn't even test him for any learning disabilities, or ASD. I don't know where to turn now. Neither of us have 'the spoons" to deal with those struggles again.
@Mp Alleviating some of the more difficult symptoms is all well and good, but I, like many many others do not see autism as something to be cured. Many of us want to live embracing our differences and find acceptance instead of being told that the thing that makes us different is something bad. My ADHD is something that I find difficult at times, but I wouldn't want to be "normal" for all the money in the world. It's amazing too, and so is autism.
@@GrammyAllen She didn't say she wanted a cure. She wants help with the difficult parts of autism. Most people have a mixture of good and bad when they have autism.
How did this work out? 🙏🏽
@@JoyLuxeHieroTarot Still no formal ASD diagnosis as well as dysgraphia. He's a junior in high school this year. We will figure out for sure if he will need college for his desired career, if he's correct and it's not then we may not seek a diagnosis. I will leave that up to him and only push him to try again at getting a full evaluation if he will need a structured education. We are able to homeschool and accommodations are built in.
@@GrammyAllen it sounds like you found a path that works, which is great. It’s a real shame that we are so far behind the mental health times in the USA though. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏽
It would be helpful to remove your face from tge camera and put the charts in tge camera while addressing the charts . One can’t barely see the different things on the chart when your face is being shared with the hart on the screen. Thank ! Everything was very interesting and you’re great at explaining what you’re talking about using much clarity and examples.
Talk starts at 4:17
The self test was extremely frustrating, and had several questions that would really throw anyone on the spectrum, for instance, asking whether you talk to people at a party the same way you talk to co-workers at work; if you neither go to parties nor work with others (self employed, unemployed, etc) there is no way to answer the question. No way to say none of the above or not applicable. There were several of them.
-do you like to play solitary games rather than team sports- No way to say that you do neither, ever.
It just felt like another poorly designed test, and it totally stressed me out, rather than producing informed results.
I should just give up these online surveys and inventories.
Yes I saw some of these they don’t allow us to express ourselves I scored 50% but were several questions I thought were inappropriate . I’m disabled physically so other stuff didn’t fit with that autism seems to think physical disability outside of autism doesn’t happen . I have prolapsed degenerative discs in my lower spine , gerd ibs and a skin condition and a eye problem some was not right to answer
Why would you play team sports at 53 with prolapsed degenerative disc disease and OA and this was adult assessments 🤣🤣. And some of us autistics did sports as a challenge to self in the military and to keep fit. And challenge pain barriers.
@SADIQ IBRAHIM🇬🇧 peddling drugs to change a persons brain make up is like wearing boots on ya head. It’s ridiculous . Pedal ya quack cures elsewhere
Very true - I really struggled with the self assessment for exactly the same reasons!
You say (timestamp 9:25-9:31) that the American science writer/SF writer Isaac Asimov was one of several famous people who “have come out and said they have Asperger.” Since Asimov died in 1992, and Asperger Syndrome wasn’t diagnosed in America till two years after his death (1994: DSM-IV), when and where was Asimov diagnosed with Asperger in time to “come out” with it before his death?
I wondered about Asimov claiming autism.
You realize the DSM isn't the only diagnostic manual right? I believe AS was added to the ICD-10 in 92. Plus there were publications in the assessment of AD going back to the 80s I believe. I do not find it hard to believe that he could have had an AS diagnosis at the time of his death. Even if he didn't have an official diagnosis, he could have self-assesed and came to that conclusion based on existing literature.
DSM is only used in the US, ICD is everywhere else. It’s often outdated.
Thank you for talking about how the DSM4 said that you can't have ADD & ASD. That bel
Not interested in drugs, awareness and education of our differences is key
Thanks for this!
Hum maybe your title should say highly intelligent. So that anyone diagnosed before being an adult doesn't feel stupid. I am 56 and just starting the process of diagnosis.
Starts at 4:15
I was dx with ADHD at 41 and ASD AT 42 AFTER My children's dxs. I'm still struggling. I have tried those meds and don't quite help. I never had hyperactivity. I have myself educating other professionals about my kids diagnoses, including teachers. This is so tired some.
I need help. I was already federally awarded but my state says they have no record of my federal dual concurrent awards. When I show them they toss it aside, and say my original awards are INADMISSIBLE? HELP
As much as I like the self-test it is not 100% reflective of how women are able to mask or perform....they behave differently than men with autism do.
For me, the story about the guy at the law firm illustrates the cruelty and narcissism of many (not all) neurotypical people. Being late with projects is one thing but I mean imagine being so arrogant and entitled that someone calls to ask for a reference and you take it upon yourself to go out of your way to talk about them negatively, when they have done nothing bad to you at all but you are offended because they didn't massage your ego. It sounds like in that particular situation the guy did nothing wrong and the secretary had no business giving any kind of comment because she wasn't his manager. In my country that would be grounds for a law suit. I believe in being kind and respectful but I am honestly so sick of the expectation that we should go out of our own comfort zone to act extra friendly towards everyone just in case they choose to sabotage our career, especially when 1. they rarely deserve it 2. the courtesy is rarely reciprocated and 3. even if you make the effort they will sometimes choose to sabotage you anyway just because you are different.
ADHD medication calibration: it's pretty much chemical flappy bird, or someone trying to keep a balloon in the air by occasionally, with various rhythms and intensity; blow on it. Keep it from descending too close to the ground, but not so hard that it ascends into the sun. Icarus vs Hindenburg Syndrome sort of...
I was initially put on Ritalin, which did absolutely nothing. I'm currently trialling dexamphetamines, but (apart from heart palpitations) these seem to have little impact either. Not sure where to go from here...
To all the parents watching this video, take some test and look or a diagnosis. Experience and genetics, say big chances at least one of you, also have it in some form. And no one says shit about it. Period.
Very good video 😊😊
People with addiction issues often transfer that addiction. This election stuff gives the adrenaline of the battle and the release of positive reinforcement. He's "hooked" on this
I mask, but I was also moving around to different continents as a kid so nobody realised it. If they did they didn't do anything. So I don't have the ability to properly be independent, but to other neurotypical ppl I look just fine in that regard. It's only a matter of time though. I'm worried I'll end up homeless again :( I have a lot of specific issues and challenges esp with how my brain works. I can't handle bigger picture things or think that way. In reality, I can't even relate much to asd 1 ppl because it's very challenging in a way they don't seem to experience. If I'm diagnosed I'd expect maybe asd 2 at this point characteristically. My best friend is asd2 and we're quite similar. I worry for all my fellow autistics with how easy it can be to overlook those with asd 1 and even 2. It's such a broad spectrum, yet the challenges are there and v severe.
people with adhd do have smart stuff because they have to survive. everybody has to live and learn but someone who has adhd like me has to grow up fast to learn how to deal with things
Does anybody know if Dr. Brown has ever spoken on ADHD & Bipolar Disorder co-occurring?
I agree with the changes in DSM-V. Besides the issues with the namesake of Asperger’s, a separate term was given primarily due to an ableist lense. If a person with Autism had less trouble communicating verbally, or were a genius at something and therefore easily dealt with in society - then they were deemed to have Asperger’s which is like “Autism Lite”. That term does nothing to help people with Autism including people who were once diagnosed with Asperger’s because it paints Autism as a linear ableist spectrum and oversimplifies it.
What if you are an adult that relates to many things in Asperger's and ADHD, but haven't been tested for anything?
I'm 35 and I've been officially diagnosed last year for ADHD after I self-diagnosed during the previous year; I'm now seeking for an ASD assessment. I KNOW I'm on the spectrum, too.
Gp first then on to a adult mentsl heslth assessment.
Buuuut be prepared to wait 4 years!!!!!!
Believe me, you not alone. There is a ton of us out there, that thanks to these videos are finally coming to terms with the fact that it was ADHD all along
Arrange to get a referral to a clinical psychologist for an appointment
I got a NHS diagnosis at the age of 43, It was only after my niece got her ASD diagnosis I realized I had many symptoms. I saw my GP they somewhat agreed with me but wanted more evidence, I wrote a 4 page letter detailing my history and symptoms without this they wouldn't entertain sending me to a specialist. The first NHS consultant didn't know what the issue was but knew there was something different she applied for funding and the NHS paid for me to go see a specialist privet clinic in Nottingham the next consultant after talked to me on video for 2 hrs and told me I was ASD and also she recommending me for a ADHD specialist I scored 8-9 for the hypoactive section. What was really annoying for my is iv been going to the GP for 25 years prior with all the related symptoms got little help just having medication given me typically diazepam and antidepressants witch made everything worse.
The second he said "unlimited possibilities in a videogame" I knew it was Minecraft
My son has been diagnosed with ASD and ADD, he has speech impairments that makes it difficult for others to understand him. His psychologists think he's either average or below average in IQ, but me and most others, including his speech pathologist, claim he's gifted.
How do we figure it out? At what point do we make an accurate assessment?
He's just 6,5 years old, is very knowledgeable in many subjects and understands three languages as well as uses very advanced language, such as words and grammar compared to other kids his age. He prefers adults over other kids and has trouble with social interactions. He's usually very bored and uninterested in school.
I am speaking on personal experience as a mother of two boys on the opposite sides of the spectrum. It's very hard to differ between "gifted" and average, depending on how you look at that person. You will see things in your child in a comfortable setting, and they can display a great deal of intelligence. In the school setting, your child may feel differently and may not be able to do the same things that they are able to do in a different setting. It's all about their environment. lights noise, talking, anything can be a distraction. keep working with your child and you will find some areas light up better than others. Mine have extreme knowledge in certain areas and one is very intelligent, though he struggles in certain areas. Being gifted doesn't necessarily mean they're intelligent in every aspect. It could be Math, or Piano , Painting or Science, but they'll probably have an average score in reading or writing, or vice versa. The point is, you know your child best, set them free on where they are best and help them when they struggle in another area. None of us are good at everything. we all are individual and unique. as are all Autistics, what works for one, may not work for another. Never give up and keep trying until you both are happy with life. Be Blessed 🧩🧩💕🐈🐾
@@KITTKATT11 I know. There's a difference between talent and being gifted. I just don't like it when they imply he's stupid because they don't understand him. My biggest fear is that they're going to ignore him and not work on his strengths. I speak from personal experience of being gifted, all I did was stare out the window for 9 years.
His teachers struggle to get him to focus, yet refuse to acknowledge the fact that they have 28 kids in that class. Of course he's going to get distracted. But once you have him alone, he'll do the work just fine (also something the school knows). He has no problem understanding words or commands or subjects, he just can't express them very well. His autism and adhd is playing a part, as is his age. But the way things are now he will hate school before it even starts properly. He's too smart for special ed schools (you need an intelectual disability for those), too difficult for normal schools and there's no in-between options.
IQ is relative. It doesn't really say anything about your strengths and weaknesses, just your logical thinking skills. Anyone who knows him well agrees he's average or high above (still being on the normal side). You don't need an IQ of a 140 to be gifted, 115 and above is enough. It's still within the normal spectrum but higher than average (average is 90-110, normal 70-120).
@@SailorYuki sounds like the school system needs to be educated. Have you heard of any AI programs? Check your local community mental health department and find different services ? I had to hire an advocate to get my son the help he needed. (Certain places will wave the fee) You're going to have to get proactive and fight , or he could be lost in the system, like you said, they're not really equipped for his needs. It's his right to a FREE & APPROPRIATE EDUCATION by law. I put them in caps because those are the words to use. Help is out there. Contact everyone you can, don't take no for the answer, ask for a supervisor, management or another agency. Unfortunately we have to fight to get their needs met.
@@KITTKATT11 I'm already doing that. I had to fight to get him assessed and now to get him the education he needs. I'm not backing down. Unfortunately, profits are more important than children in my country and we're not American.
There are other options but not untill he starts 4th grade. Homeschooling is illegal here, otherwise many parents to neurodivergent kids would keep them home. It sucks that we have to fight for the rights of children to get educated, just because they don't fit the cookie mould. I just wish I had the money to move to Finland. At least then he'd get the help he needs without us fighting for ever step of the way.
Never give up, never surrender!
@@SailorYuki I commend you on your efforts and diligence. Have you considered a GoFundMe? Stay strong and Blessed, your advocacy will pay off!
I’ve been given a diagnosis’s of Attention Deficit Disorder I’m 51, I was told I have A.D.D when I was 13. My pediatrician told my mother and wrote a letter and gave it to her to keep so I could get further help in school. He also gave me another letter when I was 20. Same letter. So I could get help in college. Had to prove I had a disability to the college. And now at 51 I’ve been told I have Social Pragmatic Communication Disorder. However I have a lot of Autistic traits. But they will not give me a diagnosis’s of Autism or that I’m on the Autism spectrum. I still need help I need an answer ?
What the heck is social pragmatic communication disorder I'm serious I've never heard of that. If I had to guess I would say Asperger's like you you said. I am having a or was having a little relationship with a man 58 I'm 65 and I'm sure he has Asperger's but he's never been diagnosed probably because even most regular doctors and psychologists are totally going to overlook the Asperger's thing especially in him because of his age and the fact that he also has cerebral palsy. I'm afraid if you went to a doctor or psychologist he would be able to mask so well they would just blow him off I'm positive he's got Asperger's let me tell you.
@@kayhansen9229
Primer
Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder (SCD) is a disorder characterized by difficulty with pragmatics, or the social use of language and communication. This seen through deficits in understanding and following social rules of verbal and nonverbal communication in day-to-day contexts, an inability to change language according to the needs of the listener or situation, and difficulty following rules for conversations and storytelling.
Epidemiology
The incidence and prevalence of social (pragmatic) communication disorder is not well known, as it is a new diagnosis in the DSM-5. It is estimated that some form of pragmatic language impairment can affect up to 7.5% of children. Males are typically affected more than females, by a ratio of 2:1.[1] SCD is rare in children younger than age 4. By age 4 or 5, most children will have adequate speech and language abilities that will reveal specific deficits in social communication. Milder deficits may not be obvious until early adolescence, when language and social interactions become more complex.
Comorbidity
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, language disorders, specific learning disorders, and behavioural difficulties are more common in these individuals.
www.psychdb.com/child/communication/social-pragmatic-communication-disorder#:~:text=Social%20%28Pragmatic%29%20Communication%20Disorder%20%28SCD%29%20is%20a%20disorder,or%20the%20social%20use%20of%20language%20and%20communication.
@@fomalhauto thanks for the information I'm hearing a lot of new stuff on here that I've never heard before because so much has changed over the years used to be only a few designated learning disabilities. It sounds very complicated too.
Do you have sensory problems and do you stim? If so you probably have autism.
What about people with ADS + ADHD + IQs above the 0.1 percentile? I really need to find some well researched info on this.
My mom told me I "have autism" but considering her reaction to me wanting to get checked for adhd i doubt im diagnosed. Obviously Knowing I might have autism only made things make sense for me. I tried telling a guidance councelour about my issues with getting diagnosed because my mother wont let me, and the teachers just said that i was "too smart" to have either of them.....
AND ITS FUCKING WITH ME RN- especially considering all three of the councilours think autistic and people with adhd are slow and stupid- WHEN WE LITTERALLY HAVE LIKE AUTISM REPRESENTATION IN MEDIA THAT ARE SMART LIKE GENIUSES- LIKE RISE DONNATELLO, AND ENTRAPTA- not saying that I'm a genius, in fact im very slow- im just so mad they think autistic people cant be smart-
thank you 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Sounds like the problem with these kids is that they are also honest
Wonderful seminar. Random question, but is the host of this program also the host of "Daily Dose of Internet"? Their voice and cadence sound the same!
I have ADHD and Atypical autism
How do you get your "life partner", your lifetime "significant other" to seek help so that you can both stop suffering decade after decade, when they won't ever talk about anything they don't want to?
Is it reasonnable to assume that children with ASD level 2 and 3 could equally be affected by ADHD. To the own admission of Dr Brown, DSM 4 did not allow to give the diagnisis of ADHD if the child was diagnosed with ASD, this was only changed in 2013, when DSM 5 was introduced!!!
When you have a child with ASD on level 2 or 3, you go from one doctor to another being told that there is nothing to treat him, however attention deficit might be at the corner stone of the cild difficulties and there might be medication to help that.
Or is this because the dose and the medication are more difficult to define when the child has issues expressing himself that doctors do not want to look at this?
Humanities societal intelligence political intelligence , the ability to think for self crushed
What to do if you already take a barbiturate to control seizures and a stimulant scares the heck out of you? Any medicine that affects my brain is scary