How to play sax WITHOUT getting a sore lip
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
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In this week's lesson you'll learn how to stop getting a sore lip when you play saxophone. Whether your bottom lip is sore on the inside or your lip is sore on the outside, you'll learn the symptoms and causes, and how to prevent yourself suffering from this pain.
🎬 Playing With A Goldfish Embouchure
• Embouchure - The #1 Mo...
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Dealing With a Sore Lip While Playing The Saxophone
00:27 Free Saxophone Success Masterclass
00:50 How To Cure Sore Lips On Saxophone
01:23 Symptoms
03:29 Causes
06:23 Typical Solutions
08:04 Best Solutions
13:17 Before You Go
13:40 Thank you for the Coffees
13:53 The GYST Inner Circle Membership
14:13 Practice Hard, Practice Smart, & Enjoy Your Music
14:20 End Music & Blooper - Навчання та стиль
![Embouchure - The #1 Most Important Tip [#142]](/img/n.gif)
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I can’t believe all this information is now available for free!!! It took me year to figure it out! Thank you so much!
You are so welcome!
I love your channel and your playing. The one thing that I would add is that most pop, rock and jazz players can remarkably improve their tone, intonation (pitch), response, control and dynamic range in all registers by contracting the lower and upper lips. Just shorten upper and lower lips just as your biceps muscles shorten when you do an arm curl. Basically you're making an "oo" shape with your lips. Once you've accomplished this, flatten your lips against your teeth, sort of opposite the goldfish embouchure. about half of the red portion of your lower lip will naturally fold over your teeth. Don't make things super firm. Your lower lip will ultimately protrude a bit and resemble the goldfish embouchure. The resulting ,former lip will support the reed, lessening the need to bite. This will prevent injuries from biting and improve all of the playing attributes mentioned above. Glen Quarrie, lecturer in saxophone, Carnegie Melon University, retired
Thanks for the comment Glen. 🙏🏻
Very good info Doc. Thanks a mill
Thanks!
Thanks, Bruv!
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Great! I will Try and be a goldfish on my Soprano! Thanks Jamie you are a life saver 🥰xx
Happy to help!
Jamie - thanks so much for making this video! I've gotten cold sores for as long as I can remember and also gotten cuts from synthetic reeds. In addition to showing your recording bloopers to let us know that recording saxophone is not always easy, this sore lip video lets me know I'm not a total wreck with my saxophone playing issues. These are as important as basic technique videos, IMHO. P.S. I also use 1200 wet/dry sandpaper (lightly applied) to the front and back of new reeds to smooth out any roughness.
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i have started with saxophone just a week back. such an excellent video!! i tried it and am so glad that i looked it up in time.. wow!! thank you🥳🥳🙏🏻🙏🏻
You're very welcome. Enjoy your playing!
Thanks for the tips. A dental guard, and softer reed helped out right away 👍
Glad it helped!
As usual, great and informative video full of advices, where people can see that you have long professional experience and knowledge. I use Dave Liebman v-embouchure and never had problem with my lips.
I know exactly what you mean by the V embouchure!
Thanks again. I really recognize this inconvenient lip problem, especially when I started to play sax. I started by playing classical music and learned to have quite a tight embouchure playing a Vandoren nr 3..as a result I could count all my lower teeth in my lower lip. When I started to play jazz I needed to loosen up my embouchure and my teacher asked me to go back to a reed nr 1,5 which was quite tough for me, as the sound was horrible. But at the end it helped me a lot. I also changed to a more 'fish type' embouchure to get a brighter tone. When I have cuts on the outside of my lips I just use pure Vaseline which makes the cuts dissapear in 1 or 2 days. Many of the other balms make my lips dry out so I don't use those anymore.
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Excellent, Jamie! In mid-2022, I developed chronic chapped lips and a mucocele on my inner lower lip. I've played sax for many years and daily for the last 20, so I was worried and sought medical advice. In my case, these symptoms were caused (we think) by an allergy to the cane. I switched to synthetic reeds and both the chapping and mucocele went away. As you mention, I discovered the synthetic reed edges can have sharp edges, and they can cause problems, too. This was especially apparent using a synthetic on a rather narrow metal mouthpiece: the reed edges 'cut' into my lower lip. Switching to a much wider hard rubber mouthpiece solved that problem. All of that said, I think 99% of my symptoms could be prevent with a looser embouchure and extending my lower lip further; that's a never-ending work in progress.
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Thanks, Jamie, this really underlines what happened to me - when I started, I just couldn't get on with cane reeds at all, and went wholly to Légere, which worked well. But I did get the ridge lines either side of my mouth and soreness all around which restricted the amount of time I could practice. As an experiment, I tried the rolled out bottom lip and taking in more mouthpiece, and have had no problems since - and as you say, I think a much better tone, so win-win! Great video, as ever, thank you!😎
Thanks for watching!
Followed your advice and changed my embouchure a couple of years ago. Stopped the inside of my lip getting cut Thankyou!
Fantastic!
This is a GOOD presentation, Jamie. I got a sore bottom lip once (as a beginner) practicing for a long time when I used to bite. I had to not play for a few days, to let my lip heal and let that experience teach/influence me to use a "better embouchure" ... for me.
Everyone has their own physiology and the shape of their lips, tongue, teeth, jaw structure and oral cavity is different and what I'm prone to or unlikely to experience is sometimes different from another player. So, I prefer to have conversations rather than hear "hard and fast rules" that don't necessarily apply to everyone.
I have supple medium sized lips and my teeth are even. Some saxophonist have thin lips and others might wear dentures and/or have spaces between their teeth! The list goes on. So the solution is never one size fits all.
True.
What I do is play softer reeds than anyone I know! 2.25 Legere AC on alto and tenor, 2.0 Legere sig on the new bari.
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Great video Jamie. Lips out is a lot of the answer especially for novices.
Just one 'remedy' you didn't explicitly menttion unless I missed it; If the reed is rough sand it down! A few rubs with a fine sand paper is all it takes and the reed is silky smooth, the edges can be rounded off too, and it generally improves the reed behaviour.
Also treating a reed scraping with a razor or reed geek can raise the grain. If so, sand it after.
Some reeds become rough(er) when moist. It might be a brand/source/type of cane thing. Solution-avoid. Buy Rigotti reeds.
Good points, thanks!
I went to a dentist and he made me a custom silicon guard for my bottom teeth and now my bottom lip is no more damaged by my teeth. However I found that the synthetic Reed I am using is probably too sharp and this caused me frequent cold sores (almost every month). My solution was to go to a dermatologist who recommended me a fantastic repairing and protecting cream called CICALFATE. I apply it after every day sax practice and now (fingers crossed) is 6 months I never had anymore any cold sore. I also made a cure with one daily anti herpes pills for six months. All together this seems to have worked well.
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Yes cialfate i use too, its very good 👍
When I started out on sax I'd sometimes get a sore inner lower lip from long practice sessions and I found orthodontic wax (the kind used on metal braces) could be easily molded over the sharp outer edge of my bottom 3 or 4 teeth and would alleviate much of the pain. I haven't needed to use any for months since either my embouchure has improved or I just got used to the minor pain. I've also read that some players have had their dentist polish the outside edge of their teeth.
Thanks Mike.
I used to get cold sores all the time as a kid and into early adulthood. I was told to put an ice cube on it when you get the first early symptom that you’re getting a cold sore, that slight itchy/burning feel you get where it’s going to develop on your lip. For me anyways, that early sign only lasts for a few minutes and if you’re not paying attention you can completely miss it. Keep the ice cube on it until it melts and it won’t develop into one. BUT it has to be done at that first warning sign. If you miss it, the ice cube trick won’t work. When I first tried it, the cold sore went away. Another time I missed the early sign and it didn’t work. However, after that, each time it happened the time between occurrences got longer and longer. It was decades until it happened again which was within the last few months. Back in November or so I started getting that early itchy/burning on my lip and used the ice trick and again it went away. Give it a try.
Interesting. Thanks!
Jamie, I’ve been playing sax for 65 years and I discovered the perfect solution for covering the teeth to prevent a sore lip. It’s called the Silverstein Omnigard and is available on the Sweetwater Music website for $30. It is a white 3/4 inch square of composite material in a plastic carrying case. You soften it in boiling water and mold it over your lower teeth. After a few minutes it hardens and you trim it to size with scissors. It easily slides in place and no more lip indentation even after many hours of playing. I don’t even know it’s there! (I clean it periodically with a fizzing denture tablet in a glass of water)😁
Cool, thanks!
Great video. I get the feeling that I'm the only one using a double lip embouchure😊 For me it's the inside of the upper lip that suffers the most. I think I'll get one of those silicone tooth guards👍
Nope you’re keeping some good company with double mate!
Lip out is the ticket. Kiss the MPC. Takes a while to manage pitch but worth time spent. It makes a better sound too, much brighter as your not biting.
And in tune... 👍
I started playing in 2001. I didn't have sore lips until 2006. I still have it now, but by nutritionist cousin suggested a solution that I still rely on till date. If I have oats twice a week, I don't get sore lips. Sore lips tells me to go get oats. Worked like magic for me. Pineapples work too but not as efficiently.
Interesting!
I keep trying lip out embouchure because I keep seeing UA-cam influencers recommending it. Maybe I’m too much on an old dog to learn this new trick. When I get a solo thrown to me, or the recording light is on, I abandon the lip out and go back to my old habits.
Yeah it takes time to change old habits!
Even if you use a traditional embouchure read about Joe Allard and how much he forced players to focus on NEVER tightening up (ie your low Bb embouchure's pressure should also be able to play high altissimo). I noticed since covid that n95 masking has maintained humidity around my face, and it's now a night and day difference in the winter (my lips would shatter like glass most years lol). Great video as always, really reminded me of some of my earlier struggles with sax, that I'd almost forgotten about--but that people need to know.
Yeh someone else mentioned the mask. Good point.
@@GetYourSaxTogether My friend who plays brass first pointed it out to me. When he said he liked them better than scarfs--I wasn't even aware at first, despite wearing them lol.
xD jajaj, Scott Paddock just upload a video about saxophone injuries, are you guys syncronized? By the way, great video Jamie!
Yeh, weird right?
I only had problems with sore lips when I restarted playing after a long break and played a Rico mouthpiece, which has a ridge the size of the reed.
😜
I started playing clarinet and play now sax as well. Because you said many times „clarinet embouchure“ but I heard this has changed and the clarinet embouchure can be more open as well?
For me playing sax helped me to improve my embouchure for my clarinet as well. I used always to much pressure and playing sax forced me to relax which result in an more open sound.
There you go. Perfect.
Yep those "orange" Ricos do need some prep but I love them anyway! 😀
One other tip is to avoid licking your outer lips when they're sore - it increases the chances of chapping, especially in the winter.
Great tip!
Thanks, Jamie! For synthetic reeds, I had to file a bit the corners so it would not hurt me.
Now, my problem is when learning new altissimo notes. For over a couple of years, when playing Urgent on alto, I had to use a custom dentist tooth rail (used for whitening teeth), but then I discovered I did not need it anymore (my embouchure got better to handle these notes). Now, I'm back with the same problem trying to reach the highest altimissimo notes on tenor (trying and not succeeding yet to reach the last note on Unchain My Heart from Joe Cocker) - I'm squeezing and biting a lot while trying to reach such high note. Do you bite more as well on high altissimo?
I try not to bite on altissimo but I still find it inevitable on the really high stuff.
I get ride of it with practice and practice..
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After altissimos, my lower lip inner gets badly worn/burnt out, but it only shows up the day after. I use from the chemist Hydrocortisone 2.5mg Muco-Adhesive Buccal Tablets, 4 per day, to improve the lip. This stuff used to be called Corlan Pellets, but I think they're out these days. These are from UK chemists, but you must check with them first, rather than go by my say so. Usually after a couple of days, they've worked. 20 in a box. They are tiny weeny. You just rest one on the bad bit. And especially good for mouth ulcers. Alway check your meds with your chemist first!
Wow, cool. Thanks.
Great video as usual! I have a problem over biting and putting too much pressure on my mouthpiece. My notes are almost half step sharp. Any suggestion on how to practice to have a relaxed embouchure? Thanksss
Take this free Masterclass on the embouchere - ua-cam.com/video/cWRyouRVoBA/v-deo.html (It starts at about 8 sec). To make real improvement consider my Total Tone Mastery Course - www.getyoursaxtogether.com/ttm-website
Enjoy!
@@GetYourSaxTogether thanksssss that's perfect!!!
Read Steve Neff, The Best Saxophone Embouchure: Where’s that Bottom Lip? Rolled out lip is harder by you can play longer.
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Also…beware of the poorly audio-monitored gig or practice settings, where you are playing with undisciplined musicians that are almost always turned up to 11! This situation can easily alter the best intentions of young musicians in an attempt to hear 👂 themselves over the unrelenting din of amplification. If they (the amplification 11 people) are your “friends” or are decent humans, ask them to twist back their levels, or travel with your personal in-ear monitor system, to clearly hear the nuances of your performance, instead of trying to compete acoustically with over-amplified sound. All kinds of lip damage can occur in these settings.
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Great post, but I was taught to play without teeth, just with the lip on the reed. This has a different consequence with me, I cramp especially on the high notes. My teacher showed me relaxation exercises, but still after 15 minutes my endurance is already over. What can I do? Thanks and groovy greetings, Kay
Em, I don’t play with my teeth on the reed either?
Does anyone you have any tips for strengthening the fish type ombouchure other than actual playing the sax. I dont always have the time to play and feel some sort of lip workout would help...
I believe there’s a device for that, but you can pull the sides of your mouth back and hold it, then pout and hold it. That works well.
@@GetYourSaxTogether THANKS
I don't mind the lip soreness...I am more concerned about the soft palate giving out.
Do you have experience with that, Jamie?
It's when the soft palate muscle gets fatigued, and it then feels like the nose is stuffy at the back of the throat.
Further playing can then lead to actual leaks that cause air to escape the nose, as well as the mouth, potentially ruining the entire airflow.
It never went that bad for me, but I do get the "Do I have mucus buildup?!" feeling after ~30 minutes or so of playing.
I am a beginner...and I hope that it goes away someday if I am diligent about not overdoing it, and working on my form/technique/breathing/airflow/tongue position, etc.
Wow - never heard of that!
@@GetYourSaxTogether Dang, interesting, it is allegedly not that uncommon, all things considered.
Well, if any of your students have issues with 'snorts' or 'feeling weird in the sinuses' then they should perhaps be aware of it.
'
It IS a real thing, after all. Although it seems to be associated with clarinets more than anything. Velopharyngeal Insufficiency is the medical term.
Apparently puffing up cheeks can make the soft palate muscle not as stable (perhaps that's a reason why it's seen as bad form?).
So, maybe having good form is the antidote.
I am self taught, for example, and while my palate, again, never gave out, I do think that I have some habits that I need to deal with.
Especially voicing and airflow, I'll get there...of course :P...but I still wanted to point out the issue that can arise (and it also seems thta some people just don't have that muscle very developed)
So, yeah, take a look at velopharingeal insufficency, that way if your students show some signs...then you have another option to consider regarding the cause.
Oh, if you google for it, add "wind" or "woodwind" or "brass" to the search.
The musical version is caused by too much pressure, the 'regular' version is caused by physical issues people are born with and requires surgery.
The stress type which wind players can get is fatigue based and can be overcome, but it can also be mitigated in the first place, prevented so to speak (although if you played for 24 hours straight, even your palate muscle might get a bit tired ...maybe hahaha, so... delayed is probably more accurate)
@@hansbrackhaus8017 ok thanks.
I've never had that happen, but my voice tends to be hoarse after playing for a while.
Hi…
First of all, enjoy your Videos… :)
If I haven’t played for a while those “rails” sometimes start to appear… When they do, I use Mycitracin (generic Bacitracin-Neomycin-Polymyxin) ointment… to prevent any cold sores from forming…
For a “lip balm” I either Blistex Complete Moisture (Non-Medicated) for regular use or Mycitracin (which I’ll use after a loooong gig when I go to bed)…
IMPORTANT: Buy the ointment NOT the cream AND do NOT buy the “Pain Killer” version !!!
You do NOT want to numb your lip!!! I have been using the Mycitracin for many years… My Tenor mouthpieces (from smallest to largest) are 8*, 9* and 12*…
Just an additional solution... Pat
Thanks Pat 😊
Pouvez vous ajouter des sous titres en Français ? Merci.
désolé, ce n'est pas possible
I just play through it and eventually want a wider mouthpiece
Fair enough!
@@GetYourSaxTogether I use a tooth guard of some sort though my teeth are serated
I have never had a sore lip from saxing…. So I guess I’m doing one thing right! 😂
👍🏻 More than one, I'm sure!
My son's saxophone teacher had two lines on the bottom his lip when the teacher started college. One came from when he played in ensembles and combos during the day in school, and the other for gigs at night. His college teacher, Joe Allard, made him change his embouchure completely, and my son's embouchure was completely different (and better) than mine. That's why you should not teach your children.
Great story!
6:24 to skip 1 and 2
👍🏻 in the chapters anyway.
Best thing to keep your mouth warm outside: facemask. They don't keep slipping down like a scarf does.
Fair point.
Came home from an intensive music camp with a really sore spot in my mouth. Had to have the dentist grind down one of my teeth that was causing the problem
Ouch!