Bruce, I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but if you cut the leaves down to the storage length, at the same time you trim the roots, you can dehydrate the leaves to make Green Garlic Powder. We use a lot of this!
That would be a cool thing to try. I have usually left them to dry, as I fell that a lot of the nutrients in the leaves will end up in the cloves, but perhaps this isn't the case, and better to use them when they are in good condition.
Put my garlic in a couple days ago. Have been using “Music Porcelain” for six years. Reducing the number I plant. Can’t use them all and I give away quite a bit. Needless to say, I love garlic.
Please don't neglect to harvest the green leaves on the plants. These taste wonderful and can be used in many things where garlic cloves are too strong, such as in fresh salads, finely diced. Dehydrating them, as others have mentioned, is also a great way to get more use out of the plant.
Useful video I didn't expect that each bag of garlic can produce different shapes of cloves as we always buy one or two from the shops thank you very much guys
I'd be interested to hear more about the flavor or the different varieties, usefulness in the kitchen, and shelf life. Quantity of yield is important, but if a similar producing variety is better tasting, that'd make my decision.
There is definitely some difference, but I haven't spent enough time cooking recently to be able to really try them. There is noticeable difference in how easily the cloves are to peel, which is also an important factor.
A most informative video. I was gifted a 4 clove bulb of stiff neck garlic,.planted them, they produced 20 cloves along the skapes. Planted them the second year along with the little bulbets from the scapes, The bulbets grow for four years befor they proguce multi clove bulbs. Such great fun growing garlic No shortage of garlic at my house.
Subscribed on June 30 2019 to your Patreon and not regretting any single day. Love the context, love the videos, love the data and information. Thanks for all the insights, Bruce.
I’m so glad’you do these trials and share, you’re the best ’intermediary scale’ tester out there ! I live in France in a near-Irish climate in some ways, and vicariously through this channel I can think and re-think my growing practices.
Thanks for sharing. I have grown up to 13 varieties of garlic, mostly hard neck in the past. I have settled with 4 varieties that seem to grow the best in my location. Indeed, every year is different, and one should grow varieties a few years to compare before making choices. Thanks again and happy planting.
I just finished shopping for hard-neck garlic, to plant in the next few weeks (Zone 7, Virginia, USA). After watching this yesterday, the penny dropped on something I did not previously understand. In the U.S., garlic offered for planting is sold as either "garlic seed" or as "culinary garlic". The difference being that culinary garlic is the smaller bulbs, for each variety. And is cheaper. The upshot is that, as I read it, the U.S. retail market for garlic somewhat reinforces the notion of planting big cloves, not small ones. As you demonstrated here. Separately, have really enjoyed watching your videos over the years. Finally signed up on Patreon, and I hope to see many more such videos.
That is interesting about the different in size between the garlic seed and culinary garlic. Thanks so much for becoming a patron! That kind of support really does mean a lot!
@@accordingtoabe2211 Short answer: Music. I tried Bluemont "Music", German Extra Hardy, and Chesnok Red. (All bought from the same source, Snickers Run farm in Loudoun County). The only one that thrived and gave me reasonable-sized heads was Music. Even then, the heads weren't huge. German Extra Hardy appeared to grow OK, but the heads were noticeable smaller than Music. Chesnok struggled and gave me a handful of tiny, essentially-unusable heads. With 20-20 hindsight, I think that big heads of garlic require more hours of direct sunlight than I have in my back-yard garden. (Which makes sense, given the small leaf area that a garlic plant has.) I get just under six hours of direct sunlight, and I see places that recommend 10 hours a day for garlic. So I'm guessing that all of these grow well in this area. For sure, the farm I bought them from is not 30 miles away from where I live. But if you have limited direct sunlight, you're best off going with Music.
@uucfgreen3 awesome. My range is in Ashburn so I'm familiar with Loudoun co. I was planning to go with elephant and music. Parts of my yard get 8+ hours a day, I'm in stafford county off route 17.
The garlic scapes are delicious just fried with olive oil. It is worthwhile to harvest them Bruce, it also helps to get growth into bulbs rather than scapes. It is quite a high extra yield.
I'm half italian and I grow about 100 bulbs each year. I got my original bulbs from a friend and have no idea what variety they are! Whatever they are, the grow and store well so I haven't given them a second thought, so, thanks for this video! You collect so much valuable detailed data! How many hours do you work in the gardens each day?
I was like that, the one I had grew well, and didn't really think about trying a new variety until recently. The work in the gardens, the research, data collecting and analysis, and making the videos is a full time job. Not sure how much I spend in the gardens, which changes with the season, but it is never enough.
I dont know if there was any assistance with pests, as I generally don't get them in the tunnel early in the season, but I always grow a decent crop of garlic and onions in there.
I did have a chuckle when you said that you are good at adding varieties but not finishing varieties. I can relate to that. 😁 I have finally narrowed down a cherry tomato that is my favourite. That took over a decade, lol. I still try a few here and there but I now compare them all with my favorite. A black cherry of some kind. I say that just because I have been saving seed from them for so long. I have been building my garlic patch as well. I now have about 25 bulbs to break up and plant. It is a hard neck and produces 5 distinct cloves of a few centimeters in length and width. I harvest them when the greens are 2/3rds dead. That is what I was taught and the reason is so that the bulbs don't separate in the ground and so that the paper skins keep things tightly together. It has always worked for me. I leave the stalks so the bulb can take what it needs to finish off, etc. I always cut the scapes and make pesto or pickle them. Quite tasty. It will for sure affect your bulb in the end if you do not cut them. I think you should grow it in the tunnels if it works out better for a nice quality bulb. You could easily companion plant them with other things. ☺
Yeah, when I do settle on a variety or a method, it tends to be simply because I dont have the capacity to keep trying! Thanks for the points about garlic, makes sense.
I am in a zone 4 in northern MI. I started out with almost 17 different varieties, my daughter and I lost the "map" of the names the first year and have just been growing the best of what comes ever since. I would bet there is still about 10 different ones left but it's hard to say. Its sort of funny, they all look/grow different, finish different times all mixed together, and taste different, but we cant single one out and love our motley crew of garlic. Probably will never change. Thanks for another great vid!
That is great! It almost makes me want to intentionally 'misplace' the map of the varieties, so that I can just maintain whatever works well, and enjoy the diversity, rather than trying to keep everything organised and having to continually evaluate and remember the names! 😁
Thanks. Saved a lot for replanting. Passed a selection of all the varieties to a few friends for tasting/using. And then any leftover was distributed to people in my community through the Vegetable Fridge I use to pass on all the other surplus from the gardens.
I was going to make some comments about leaving scapes and too many dead leaves on harvest, but you explained all that, and the graphs were very informative and useful. Generally, they confirmed the scientific studies that have shown the selection of big cloves leads to big bulbs, but maybe not 100% in all cases, thank you!
Hello Red. Enjoyed this trial. We are in the Catskills NY. and grow hard neck garlic here. We have developed 3 harvests from our garlic. The smaller cloves not used for eating we grow for green garlic in spring. Then the scapes used anyway you use garlic makes a great pesto. The bulb garlic. We have use a pre inoculate soak for bulbs ( mixing fish emulsion and baking soda and short soaking in hydrogen peroxide before planting) Harvesting scapes provides early crop and large heads. Best to you.
That is cool, especially planting the smaller cloves for green garlic leaves. I hadn’t thought of that. What is the purpose/benefit of the inoculate soak?
Pure quality content, thanks a lot ! I would never have thought of growing garlic in a greenhouse, but I'm going to think about it. A garlic/bean/spinach rotation, for example, sounds interesting. Greetings from belgium.
I'm starting trials this year in north Florida. Thermidrone and Lorz this year. Now I'm hoping Termidrome just likes hotter weather than you have. My goal is to eventually grow a mild and a strong/hot variety. Planting starts next week. The one thing I've learned about alliums generally is that if a patch gets diseased, it's all diseased. But, the same variety 30 meters away is can be just fine. I try to split my planting now.
Hope the trials go well for you. I am hoping to end up with 3 or 4 varieties that have different flavours/strengths but that all produce well both outside, and in the polytunnel.
We grow hardneck in northern US. Last year I planted too early and, yes, too much growth and many of variety pack didn’t make it through the winter. I believe the Musik and Red Chesnik were winners. This year I waited for frost and then 2-3 weeks after to plant. I thought that would be Halloween, but the weather changed quickly and I planted in 2 weeks so I wouldn’t be out in the cold and snow and that is what today-Halloween-is. You have a lot of garlic and they say softneck keep better, I couldn’t say as I’ve never tried them here. It’s a lot of work to keep track of and processing. Good job.
I am sorry that I cannot contribute! I have been watching you for years and feel like I am stealing/taking advantage of you! I wish you the best of health and (if any consolation) inspired by you, I will use any occasion to give some back to those around me. Thank you my friend, you really take this to the...best level!
No worries, I know that only a small portion of people can. I set this project up this way, to share widely, and not have any info behind a paywall. So I am delighted that you get a lot out of my videos, and if you can share with others around you, that is how real change happens!
Doing all the work that you do and still having time to read comments and reply! (Your work ethics puts many of us to shame.) I am glad that more and more people are beginning to appreciate your sacrifice AND the fact that you are doing it all alone, without selling out! Before anything else my friend you are a source of inspiration. I hope that you and your family are much better than ok. @@REDGardens
Have you tried growing elephant garlic? I grow it in north devon, outside,a similar wet climate, and it grows like stink with no issues, even without irrigation or fertiliser. I harvest not only the bulbs, but the scapes and sometimes the shoots (as technically theyre a leek). This way i have a yield all year around. If it turns out i dont need to harvest all the bulbs one year, the next year they will just form larger clumps. An added bonus is the tall flowers are not only very attractive, but the pollinators seem to love them too.
They grow great, unfortunately to me and many other people they taste awful. Apparently it's one of those flavor chemical that only some people have receptors for.
Great video! Have you tried using a mustard cover crop to help cut down the rust? I live on the southern east coast of USA and because of the humidity rust is an issue in my garden. I find when I grow a cover crop of mustard it helps. Greatly cut back the rust on my beans and garlic. I grow everything outdoors.
Hello Red I've been watching your videos for several years now. I like you started growing garlic from just a few bulbs. Living in Sweden I found several good varieties. Last July I moved to Romania and my Swedish garlic did well. If you can guide me to where I can but several good large varieties, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Something was getting my okra a few years ago. I found out that if you inoculate them with a beneficial microbe appropriate for the type of plant, it will basically occupy the space that any bad microbe could use to infect. You can't use super salty fertilizer though or you will have to reinoculate.
As a scientist, I pronounce you a scientist (lol) Well done! Still, I think the taste is something you could explore more as in a backyard garden when you can a lot in a small space quality would be more important than quantity.
Yay, thanks! I think the taste preference with garlic is something that will take years to really develop, as it will go hand in hand with how well is stores. Getting a good tasting clove that is still crisp in late spring would be a definite benefit.
One recipe for a taste trial that’could convice more of your friends and neighbourgs is roated garlic heads. Roast in a pan in the oven, next to a butternut squash or a whole chicken (non vegetarians), a third of the clove at least being in the broth in the pan (add vegetable broth if needed. The garlic gets to be like a paste, lovely on bread, so you can really taste test these for very many bites without it ever being displeasing. Truly around me, the garlic cloves in our Sunday roast are always a sought-after treat. Wars cqn be fought if we don’t at least have one per person !
@@TheEmbrio I ended up roasting all of the garlic that I had cut open of the shots in this video! But the varieties got a bit mixed up, and with a few glasses of wine and good company, we just enjoyed the garlic and noticed that there were differences, but couldn't link them to a variety. 😁
Great video! I am starting a little garlic breeding project and saw in your video 5:44 that one seemed to not only make bulbils but also actual flowers. Do you remember what variety this was? Thank you for all the great videos!
A very helpful video, thanks. What preparation did you make to your beds before planting the garlic? I’m going to my allotment this morning to put garlic in. I’ve been advised however to add a wee touch of lime to the beds? I mostly use a no-dig approach but not exclusively. My biggest task today will be keeping my Springer Spaniel pup from digging the bulbs up before the net goes over the bed!
I use a range of different methods for preparing the beds, as I grow garlic in different trial/demonstration gardens that I manage. I am not sure if any of the methods is better than the others.
I think "your strain" did quite well - the smaller cloved producing almost as much as the larger cloves for the other varieties. Could it be that they struggled outside because you're always (?) replanting from those in the polytunnel? (i.e they're adapted to that microclimate, and not to combat rust outdoors)
I have wondered if replanting the ones from inside was an issue, but I have had mixed success with that, and I think any adaptation issue is outweighed by being able to plant bigger cloves. This year, with the variety trial, most of the bulbs were from the supplier, and I assume they were grown outside somewhere.
Shame you didn't try any Solent varieties which do well for us in N Wales (similar to Ireland climate) - Also, on selecting seed garlic. The cloves are a clone so will be basically as the parent so I wouldn't expect any strain development. But I could be wrong (often am!)
I will have to keep an eye out for that variety. I have often seen comments about a strain adapting to conditions, presumably through epigenetic, as clone reproduction would exclude genetic selection as you mention, but I am not sure. I suspect most of the changes people notice is simply because they are selecting bigger cloves to plant, and the fairly straight line I noticed on the graph seems to point mainly to that. But it would be interesting to be wrong on that one.
Really interesting to see these results - I was just thinking about your previous garlic video while out in my own garden today! You mentioned briefly that the different garlics have different flavors and I remember watching Alton Brown's "Good Eats" program growing up where he said smaller cloves are more potent. Have you found this yourself? Any chance you could get access to a mass spectrometer? 😂
I haven't tried enough to notice the difference in the smaller cloves yet, but it would be interesting to see if that idea holds up with the different varieties. A mass spectrometer is on the list of stuff to buy when I win the lottery! 😀
Thanks for another very useful video. One thing you didn't touch on though and that is the importance spacings have on size, I wonder if some of your smaller cloves were a little closer to one another. I remember reading one of Titchmarshes books and he said to buy in fresh every year. I wonder if those who are suffering from repeated disease every year (rust) are causing it by re-use.
Yes, spacing is something that I really want to explore, to see how it affects the size of the bulbs. In the trials I did this past season, I was fairly careful to keep consistent spacing between all the cloves planted in the different gardens, but I think there was uneven competition from other crops in the adjacent beds which may have had an impact on the trial. I do wonder about the repeated saving of my own seed, and the possibility of passing on diseases, which is apparently a big issue with potatoes. That is one of the reasons why I prefer to use the garlic from the polytunnel as it tends not to be affected by rust, so it reduces the chance of it carrying over.
I recently met a successful small scale garlic farmer. I asked what his secret to huge seed-quality cloves was... he said he plants very late so only roots grow during the winter, and no green shoots develop at all until spring. He said it's best to plant after the ground has a frozen crust, around New Year's Day here in Washington State. I haven't done this myself yet, but want to compare results from Fall and post freeze plantings.
I audibly gasped when you showed the bulbs you grow in the polytunnel. Incredible and gorgeous! (There are two types of people in this world, those who are astonished by the size of ur cloves and normies.)
Great video Bruce. Our climate here in Western Oregon is similar to yours much of the year, 5 degrees and rainy, but with warmer, drier summers. For several years now I've only grown garlic in one of my high tunnels due to rust issues, and they do far better in there than outside. I've never seen soft neck garlic the size of yours, all of the soft neck varieties here are half that size or less. Such a great video I've decided to increase my Patreon sub, hope it can help you keep it going.
Very good to hear that you are also having a lot better success avoiding garlic rust in the polytunnel, and in a similar tunnel. I am the opposite here as I haven't seen a really big hard neck variety yet. Thanks so much for increasing your sub, it really does help!!
I’ve grown both Therador and Messidor (a cross between Therador and Messidrome) this year and both did really well. My soil is river clay with an undeep hummus layer on top. This is different from your soil I think, which either suggests these varieties are tolerant of different soil and weather conditions, and therefore fairly easy to grow, or that it was just a really good year for these varieties. Another variety I grew was Valverde, which didn’t do as well, so for me at least, it wasn’t the case that garlic in general grew well this year.
That is very different soil to grow in, and interesting to know that those varieties did well. I do think garlic is quite easy to grow in general, until there is an issue either with a disease, or with a particular variety or batch of cloves.
@@REDGardens That's the thing though, Valverde, another softneck, didn't do well at all. Might have been a clove issue (they were bought), but they seemed just the same as the other varieties when I planted them. Soil conditions were the same. Who knows why one did well and the other didn't 🤷♂️
Great video!! Are you sure about the Thermidrome, I just bought Thermidrome clovers and they are weighing in average 4,47 g after removing the smallest and the largest is 6.78 g, a quick google search brings up a number of 216 cloves per kg or 4.63 g per clover for Thermidrome. around 4.5 g would fit a lot better in the graph.
Thanks! Interesting calculations, but the bulbs I bought for Thermidrome had cloves that were quite a bit bigger than that, at least the cloves that I planted. I just checked the video clips that I took at the time I separated the cloves, and they were definitely bigger than the rest.
Hi, for rust in dictoyledons it comes from a lack of calcium and magnesium, we first look at the pH of the substrate. There is a blockage of calcium and magnesium below pH 6.5. if not that, we look at the presence of calcium and magnesium in the substrate. If there is calcium and magnesium in the substrate, we look to see if the Liebig barrel is respected, that is to say that all the trace elements are present and assimilable. Certain plants have always extracted the transport and transformation of calcium magnesium by a mycorrhiza. Forced mycorrhization after germination can solve the problem of calcium assimilation. TNC MycorrMax is a good mycorrhiza complex. And 5th point is maybe there is too much light, a little shade sail can also help. All this is for dicotyledons but for monocotyledons it remains to be verified. You have some ideas for removing the rust now. Thanks for your video see you next time. bye
Interesting stuff, something to look into. Our soil is calcareous, with a pH generally over 7.5, so would not have thought there was an issue with calcium absorption. And the test show a fair amount of magnesium, but there could be something blocking their absorption.
I have been growing hard neck garlic in zone 9b in California for 20 years. I frequently plant as many as 300 cloves. I have grown varieties from Turkmenistan and Armenia because we like the flavor and they produce large, easy to peel cloves. I plant the cloves in November, and have always dug them up the first week of June. However, a large portion of the plants have formed “witches brooms” the past two years. Last year I thought I had harvested them too late. This year I began digging up a plant every week or two beginning in early April to see how the cloves were developing. Some plants had formed “witches brooms” by mid April and had produced as many as 8 scapes where they should have had only one, and the cloves had separated. I suspect this formation of “witches brooms”. Is caused by the highly variable winter weather we have experienced the past two winters, caused some plants to behave as if they had experienced a summer and were in their second year in the ground. I a now looking for a variety of garlic that is less likely to form “witches brooms”. That may very well be a soft necked variety.
I have had a few plants of a few varieties do that, but didn't know what had caused it. Other varieties seem fine. I will have to keep an eye on that to see if I can figure out what might be causing it.
for me, my top three "needs" are Yield, Flavor, Storability, in that order. If someone were to ask, I would say I am a gardener/foodie, neck and neck, tough to see which is more my personality. So, flavor is important. I cook. A LOT. making sauces, meals, etc. So, for me, flavor is key. How it hold s up. i am only recently coming to garlic, as a crop I grow , and still learning what grows in my garden, here in New England. I have so far only planted two varieties of Hardneck. This coming weekend, I will be planting 3 varieties: Two new for me: Northern White Hardneck and Chesnok Red last 2 years: Kejora Siberian hardneck Garlic I am not happy with the Siberian Red, so, I need to find one that does well.
I would agree with that list, but probably prefer storability over flavour. But that is probably because I haven't really explored and appreciated the difference in flavour yet! I haven't been cooking a lot lately, which is something I miss, and with dietary changes in our house, garlic has been dropped from a lot of what we eat, which really sucks. Enjoy your garlic growing explorations!
Bruce, @@REDGardens , I'd have to really up amount grown, for us to be able to make our stored garlic last thru the "hunger gap" between harvest and harvest. Not impossible, but, I am trying to there with quite a few veggies, so, I need to plan my growth of garden carefully, to fill the Hunger gap.
I grow Chesnok Red, and the first year, results were not outstanding. Here in Idaho, 7.6ph. The next year, results are much better. I feel I treated each year similarly. I liked the soft neck grocery store variety every bit as well as the expensive Chesnok. Also Chesnok is a stronger tasting garlic than the soft neck type I tried. Good luck!
It would be interesting if there would be a chance to add a couple of garlic varieties from Eastern Europe like Poland, Ukraine etc. to see and compare how they feel and grow in Ireland's climate. From these varieties which you were growing I knew and was growing only Messidrome which is Dutch variety as much I know, not the best yield if comparing with old garlic varieties from Poland and Latvia. Great experiment & expierence, thank you for sharing!
You should send samples to some foodtube channels, perhaps they know how to compare and taste them. A collab for future comparisons like this for different plant varieties would be cool to see.
I feel like the trial on yeild across varieties is done. Further explorations could be focused on the 4 varieties. Perhaps closing out the study on clove size planted to bulb size harvested by comparing across sizes across the 4 varieties is the next exploration. A quick taste trial of "acceptable or not" among the 4 could be screen test if further taste trials are necessary. IMO, if among the 4, there's one that can score 4 out of 5, comprehensive taste trials across 10 varieties aren't a priority. Rust resistance seems important especially for the outside gardens. As someone who cooks, I think price (yeild), flavor, clove size (proxy for effort to peel), and storability are important to garlic.
Interesting thoughts, thanks. I think the main focus is with the outside gardens, but I am interested in continuing that trials inside the polytunnel to see if the results are generally repeated, and to harvest varieties when they seem to be at the same stage of development.
If you did not cut the scapes off the hard neck garlic, did you get useful garlic from them? In my experience, leaving the flower on hard neck garlic makes the bulb almost too small to use.
Yes, I still got useful decent bulbs from the hard neck varieties without removing the scapes. It will be interesting to see if the yield increases if I do remove them next year.
2:09 Looks like purple blotch fungal disease/ downy mildew, centre screen at top :). Treatable with organic inputs. Try potassium bicarbonate, followed by beneficial bacteria and fungal spray. Great video. Many thanks from Australia
Thanks for pointing that out! I really need to get more knowledgeable about these things, and to be more observant. Comments like these are one of the main ways I learn, which is great!
No worries mate :). I'm not certain but it looks similar to what I've had in my crops. Starts as a small pale circle, changes to purple/black, sheds spores, and can kill the plant in extreme cases.. Have a squiz at your plants, have a google and get back to me :). Im keen to learn more :) @@REDGardens
I am from Nürmberg, germany. We here have an area called Knoblauchsland litterally translated into garlic land :) ofcause. It is an agricultural area at the outskirts of the city which traditionally is responisble for the cities produce. I have been to ireland in the past which is beautiful and i was amazed by the mild(nearly tropical?) stable weather due to the atlantic currents as i was told. Still in many ways it seemed very similar to the rather inland conditions around here. Where did you get your garlic variaties from?
@@REDGardens germans seem particularly keen on naming a thing after its function. At least i haven't noticed it in anglo saxon/anglo american cultures to this extant sofar and i am sadly not able to understand other languages well enough. Anyways good luck with your project!
Do you let your selected saved cloves go to seed? If not, I'm not sure if you're doing much genetic selection at all. You might just be cloning the best one seed from the original batch over and over
With Garlic it is just vegetative propagation, or clone as you said, not a seed that has been pollinated with a more diverse genetics. But there is a widely shared idea that if you keep saving the best bulbs that the strain will ‘adapt’ to the local conditions. Not sure if that happens, or how, but apparently it could be some form of epigenetic.
@@REDGardens From what I've read, the scapes themselves are further clones, but the seeds are beneath them. If memory serves me correct. people try to get garlic seed by brushing off the scapes early in their development because they choke off seed formation. You'll have to check on that. Landrace Gardening is trying to revitalize the species.
Good presentation. Appreciate the employment of the scientific method. I look forward to your replication studies. Happy you found a funding method that works for you 🙂 (I've just finished weighing a few sources of garlic, and have written it down in a log book. I miss research 😅). WRT young plants pulled up prior to adequate root development - I'm running a pilot experiment in an exposed earth bed (no poly tunnel) where I planted the cloves half between summer solstice and Autumn equinox, and have been pruning the greens off to mulch level to see the impact on bulb development. My theory is that the roots will establish more extensively without having to also support the greens. Given that hard frost is still some weeks away, differentiation of the Scape buds, nor the clove buds should have yet occurred. Yesterday was the last scheduled pruning. Nine months from now will tell if I'm on to something or not.
Garlic from clove plants are clones of the parent so there will be little adaptation, you will be only selecting for that particular strain that fits best. For adaptation you need to grow garlic from seed.
The soil in this garden is really well developed, with lots of organic matter and amended for every crop, with a general purpose fertiliser. I am not sure how fertile the soil should be for garlic in general.
When you’re saving the largest garlic cloves for the next planting, are these being saved from all the garlic bulbs or just from the largest garlic bulbs? My reasoning is that to breed a specific cultivar you would need to be culling whole genetic strains and that would only be happening if you eliminate whole bulbs of garlic not just the tiniest cloves.
I appreciate the extra info. It is really surprising that cultivation of the best bulbs and cloves only made a minor improvement. Maybe the species has been cultivated for so long before us that the genes are stable and there isn't enough randomness to produce better or worse crops without crossbreeding. @@REDGardens
Regarding the rust; when do you plant? If you plant early, the foliage will be quite old when rust comes around, and more easily affected. I recommend planting early December or thereabouts, then the green growth will start slow, but will still be relatively young and vigorous in spring, and therefore more resilient. The actual bulb itself will only start to grow around May 1, and it's then that you want your garlic plants to be at their best, not beyond their best. Regarding taste: the hardnecks have a more intense flavour, which real garlic lovers prefer. Generally garlic is classified into 10 different groups, most of them hardnecks. There's a softneck group called Artichoke - because the cloves tend to come in layers in this group - and by far most of your varieties are from this same group, so that's not a lot of variety. Artichokes are very common in France and Italy, they do well in regions with milder winters. Some garlic groups like much colder winters, but some hardnecks that do well in milder winters are Marbled Purple Stripes and Rocamboles. That are the names of the groups, not varieties, but varieties in the same group behave very similar, so garlic experts often mention the group instead of the variety. Marbled Purple Stripes and Rocamboles store less well than Artichokes, but then you can use those first, and save your Artichokes and Creoles (Morado is in the Creole group) for later use. Rocamboles are ready to harvest a few weeks before the others, that's an interesting thing about them. They're only growing weak scapes. Most hardnecks grow strong scapes, that you'll want to cut before the flower head is starting to form, because this drains a lot of energy away from the bulb. Your garlic is looking great; big bulbs, bigger than what I'm growing, but I guess my soil care isn't great, and average sized bulbs do for me. Thanks for the vid.
Thanks fro all that info. I have heard about the groups or types of garlic but there is so little information on them over here, and no specification about the varieties as to what group they are from. Cutting them open I could definitely see the difference! I planted the outside plants in January, which I thought was already late. it would be interesting to try planting them even later.
@@REDGardens Yeah, January is already late, probably the conditions where you live are ideal for rust, and then I don't know how to improve things for your outside garlic. I wouldn't start planting a heap of garlic later than January, of course a couple of cloves as trial wouldn't go amiss, but the experiences are that the bulbs will stay smaller when planted later than January. The only standard work about garlic has been written by Ron Engeland, I believe in the 70s already. I haven't read 'Growing Great Garlic' but Ron's farm, Filaree Farm, has a website which also gives good descriptions of the garlic groups. UA-cam can delete posts that give a link, but look for 'Filaree Farm Certified Organic Seed Garlic Varieties'. The description of the different groups are rather good, but not everything fits our climate, like Porcelains are very popular in Canada, very cold winters, but they stay smaller here. I actually made a mistake in my previous comment; I meant Turbans instead of Rocamboles, because Turbans are nice and early and Rocamboles are actually the latest, although both are suitable for our climate. British suppliers, possibly those in Ireland as well, seem to be overwhelmingly doing Artichokes, which is a bit of a shame. There's more than that. I'm located in The Netherlands, usually a bit less wet than Ireland in winter, but otherwise not a very different climate. There are better suppliers here, some with 50 - 100 varieties to choose from, although then some are hard to differentiate from each other. Another real expert on garlic is Letetia Ware, in Tasmania. She shares a lot of info on fb, also on diseases, treatments and stuff. If Letetia would write a book on garlic, you'd have a new standard work on the subject.
@@jangrouwstra3927 Thank you for all that info. It will definitely help me in my journey to understand a lot more about garlic! It does seem that my supplier has mainly artichoke types, though it is hard to be sure as no real info is provided.
Just a question about your so called adapted crop. Does garlic ever go to seed? My understanding is that the bulb forms a genetic clone meaning there is no way for it to adapt to the environment.
It apparently can form a seed, in the garlic scape, but I only plant the clove. So, as you say, it is a genetic clone, so there isn't the possibility go the adaptation through the genetic changes. But there is this common idea that the strain will adapt over time, and some people think that it is through epigenetic, which is more how the existing genetics will 'express' in response to the environment. Or something like that.
9:45 why are you disappointed? You took that variety for those years to its greater yield expression and it shows when you compare to the new non selected for yield cloves of it. Do that for 2-3 harvests to the peinador and other 2 high weight bulb varieties and it will be better probably too. You even have cloves to sell that are superior yielding in the category or variety you have had for years and to the buyer of that variety that’s great advantage compared to buying it from a small Clove supplier, so congrats! Keep going!
While the two broad classes of garlic are hardneck and softneck, it should be noted that garlic can be further divided into three sub-classes of softneck: i,e,, artichoke, silverskin, middle eastern, and eight sub-classes of hardneck: ri.e.,ocambole, asiatic, porcelain, creole, purple stripe, glazed purple strip, marbled purple stripe, and turban. It is these sub-classes that are particularly useful when making choices based on clove size, climate preference, height, shelf life, and harvest date. There are several hundred total varieties of garlic so take some time to educate yourself on this fascinating and rewarding crop plant before buying.
Thanks for that! Such interesting stuff, but so little information about what varieties belong to what group over here. Cutting them all open definitely showed a lot, but I need to do a lot more research.
I grew about twenty varieties from about five different categories on my old farm. This helped to stretch out the harvest so that we could sell scapes, green garlic, and cured heads for a long time. It sold very well at farmer's markets.@@REDGardens
Spare a thought for us unfortunate folk riddled with white rot 😔. I just wish I could grow more garlic. I have to grow 5x what I need, lose at least half. The other half mostly be small and anything decent needs to immediately be frozen in cloves as it won't keep. It works out that I get enough but it's still devastating.
I am so glad I have not had to deal with white rot! The is a hard disease to work around. I was wondering if growing in containers with bought in growing medium would be an option for you.
I grow a few bulbs in containers but it’s not too practical on a large scale. I’ve attempted a few experiments this year. Apparently following brassicas might help, so I’ve used that bed. I’ve been watering in garlic powder for the last few months. No alliums have been grown in this bed by me. So at least 5 years. Large spacing (8-10inches) and finally a decomposed wood chip mulch. I read the fungi might be able to outcompete white rot. All random things I read on the internet but I’ve nothing to lose so figured I’d try them all 😂
Bruce, I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but if you cut the leaves down to the storage length, at the same time you trim the roots, you can dehydrate the leaves to make Green Garlic Powder. We use a lot of this!
Chives are better in every way.
@@BlackJesus8463 how do you figure?
That would be a cool thing to try. I have usually left them to dry, as I fell that a lot of the nutrients in the leaves will end up in the cloves, but perhaps this isn't the case, and better to use them when they are in good condition.
@@BlackJesus8463 are chives a byproduct of growing garlic?
@@andruloni No, chives are chives, look them up.
Put my garlic in a couple days ago. Have been using “Music Porcelain” for six years. Reducing the number I plant. Can’t use them all and I give away quite a bit. Needless to say, I love garlic.
You can pickle them cheap and easy.
If you ever have “too much,” garlic chips are so good.
Giving away garlic is always a cool thing to be able to do!
@@REDGardens that’s right. Either for cooking or for seed. Always a pleasure to share the bounty of the garden. Thanks Bruce
Great videos, love when you do trials.
🙂
Best gardening channel. Ever. Amazing.
This encourages me to try something different as I have grown the same variety for years
I love garlic, I'm going to grow some this year. Will start planting around Halloween.
Same here!
nerds
Please don't neglect to harvest the green leaves on the plants. These taste wonderful and can be used in many things where garlic cloves are too strong, such as in fresh salads, finely diced. Dehydrating them, as others have mentioned, is also a great way to get more use out of the plant.
I should try that. Thanks for the suggestion!
How long can u save cloves for planting? How to save them to Last for couple of months without sprouting?
Useful video I didn't expect that each bag of garlic can produce different shapes of cloves as we always buy one or two from the shops thank you very much guys
I'd be interested to hear more about the flavor or the different varieties, usefulness in the kitchen, and shelf life. Quantity of yield is important, but if a similar producing variety is better tasting, that'd make my decision.
Tastes like garlic and theres more than one way to preserve it.
There is definitely some difference, but I haven't spent enough time cooking recently to be able to really try them. There is noticeable difference in how easily the cloves are to peel, which is also an important factor.
Which varieties peeled the easiest?
@@swittman9123 Still something I want to check properly.
@REDGardens Will be interesting to see if you post. That pernicious rust issue is unfortunate.
A most informative video. I was gifted a 4 clove bulb of stiff neck garlic,.planted them, they produced 20 cloves along the skapes. Planted them the second year along with the little bulbets from the scapes, The bulbets grow for four years befor they proguce multi clove bulbs. Such great fun growing garlic No shortage of garlic at my house.
I love side-by-side comparisons like this. I appreciate the added problems to record all of this. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
outstanding, I appreciate the effort that went into this trial and commentary
Thanks
Subscribed on June 30 2019 to your Patreon and not regretting any single day. Love the context, love the videos, love the data and information.
Thanks for all the insights, Bruce.
Awesome, thank you!
I’m so glad’you do these trials and share, you’re the best ’intermediary scale’ tester out there ! I live in France in a near-Irish climate in some ways, and vicariously through this channel I can think and re-think my growing practices.
Thanks for the comment. Nice to know the people appreciate these trials.
Thanks for sharing. I have grown up to 13 varieties of garlic, mostly hard neck in the past. I have settled with 4 varieties that seem to grow the best in my location. Indeed, every year is different, and one should grow varieties a few years to compare before making choices. Thanks again and happy planting.
Yeah, I think I would need to grow for a few years before making any overall decisions about varieties.
Fantastic, by far the best and most honest analysis of garlic seeds and cultivation I have ever seen. Many thanks and good luck in the garden.
Wow, thank you!
I just finished shopping for hard-neck garlic, to plant in the next few weeks (Zone 7, Virginia, USA).
After watching this yesterday, the penny dropped on something I did not previously understand.
In the U.S., garlic offered for planting is sold as either "garlic seed" or as "culinary garlic". The difference being that culinary garlic is the smaller bulbs, for each variety. And is cheaper.
The upshot is that, as I read it, the U.S. retail market for garlic somewhat reinforces the notion of planting big cloves, not small ones. As you demonstrated here.
Separately, have really enjoyed watching your videos over the years. Finally signed up on Patreon, and I hope to see many more such videos.
That is interesting about the different in size between the garlic seed and culinary garlic.
Thanks so much for becoming a patron! That kind of support really does mean a lot!
I'm in zone 7b in VA as well. Which variety of hardneck did you go with? I'm in planning stages now.
@@accordingtoabe2211 Short answer: Music. I tried Bluemont "Music", German Extra Hardy, and Chesnok Red. (All bought from the same source, Snickers Run farm in Loudoun County).
The only one that thrived and gave me reasonable-sized heads was Music. Even then, the heads weren't huge. German Extra Hardy appeared to grow OK, but the heads were noticeable smaller than Music. Chesnok struggled and gave me a handful of tiny, essentially-unusable heads.
With 20-20 hindsight, I think that big heads of garlic require more hours of direct sunlight than I have in my back-yard garden. (Which makes sense, given the small leaf area that a garlic plant has.) I get just under six hours of direct sunlight, and I see places that recommend 10 hours a day for garlic.
So I'm guessing that all of these grow well in this area. For sure, the farm I bought them from is not 30 miles away from where I live. But if you have limited direct sunlight, you're best off going with Music.
@uucfgreen3 awesome. My range is in Ashburn so I'm familiar with Loudoun co. I was planning to go with elephant and music. Parts of my yard get 8+ hours a day, I'm in stafford county off route 17.
The garlic scapes are delicious just fried with olive oil. It is worthwhile to harvest them Bruce, it also helps to get growth into bulbs rather than scapes. It is quite a high extra yield.
Great job!! We see your videos from Catalonia 🙌😊
Awesome! Thank you!
I'm half italian and I grow about 100 bulbs each year. I got my original bulbs from a friend and have no idea what variety they are! Whatever they are, the grow and store well so I haven't given them a second thought, so, thanks for this video! You collect so much valuable detailed data! How many hours do you work in the gardens each day?
I was like that, the one I had grew well, and didn't really think about trying a new variety until recently.
The work in the gardens, the research, data collecting and analysis, and making the videos is a full time job. Not sure how much I spend in the gardens, which changes with the season, but it is never enough.
@@REDGardens Never enough for you or the gardens? 😀
I believe both, my garden can always use more time
@@lksf9820 Haha, both obviously 🙂
It's great to see garlic being taken so seriously. I'll bet your tunnel smelt wonderful - did it help with bug control at all?
I dont know if there was any assistance with pests, as I generally don't get them in the tunnel early in the season, but I always grow a decent crop of garlic and onions in there.
Sounds good, and I'm going to give it a go.@@REDGardens
I did have a chuckle when you said that you are good at adding varieties but not finishing varieties. I can relate to that. 😁 I have finally narrowed down a cherry tomato that is my favourite. That took over a decade, lol. I still try a few here and there but I now compare them all with my favorite. A black cherry of some kind. I say that just because I have been saving seed from them for so long. I have been building my garlic patch as well. I now have about 25 bulbs to break up and plant. It is a hard neck and produces 5 distinct cloves of a few centimeters in length and width. I harvest them when the greens are 2/3rds dead. That is what I was taught and the reason is so that the bulbs don't separate in the ground and so that the paper skins keep things tightly together. It has always worked for me. I leave the stalks so the bulb can take what it needs to finish off, etc. I always cut the scapes and make pesto or pickle them. Quite tasty. It will for sure affect your bulb in the end if you do not cut them. I think you should grow it in the tunnels if it works out better for a nice quality bulb. You could easily companion plant them with other things. ☺
Yeah, when I do settle on a variety or a method, it tends to be simply because I dont have the capacity to keep trying!
Thanks for the points about garlic, makes sense.
Everyone loves black cherry tomatoes.
morado looks the most appealing by far.
I am in a zone 4 in northern MI. I started out with almost 17 different varieties, my daughter and I lost the "map" of the names the first year and have just been growing the best of what comes ever since. I would bet there is still about 10 different ones left but it's hard to say. Its sort of funny, they all look/grow different, finish different times all mixed together, and taste different, but we cant single one out and love our motley crew of garlic. Probably will never change. Thanks for another great vid!
That is great! It almost makes me want to intentionally 'misplace' the map of the varieties, so that I can just maintain whatever works well, and enjoy the diversity, rather than trying to keep everything organised and having to continually evaluate and remember the names! 😁
Wow! What a tremendous amount of hard work. Very interesting trial. Well done. Just wondering-what did you do with all that garlic?!?
Thanks. Saved a lot for replanting. Passed a selection of all the varieties to a few friends for tasting/using. And then any leftover was distributed to people in my community through the Vegetable Fridge I use to pass on all the other surplus from the gardens.
I was going to make some comments about leaving scapes and too many dead leaves on harvest, but you explained all that, and the graphs were very informative and useful. Generally, they confirmed the scientific studies that have shown the selection of big cloves leads to big bulbs, but maybe not 100% in all cases, thank you!
Thank you!
Hello Red. Enjoyed this trial. We are in the Catskills NY. and grow hard neck garlic here. We have developed 3 harvests from our garlic. The smaller cloves not used for eating we grow for green garlic in spring. Then the scapes used anyway you use garlic makes a great pesto. The bulb garlic. We have use a pre inoculate soak for bulbs ( mixing fish emulsion and baking soda and short soaking in hydrogen peroxide before planting) Harvesting scapes provides early crop and large heads. Best to you.
That is cool, especially planting the smaller cloves for green garlic leaves. I hadn’t thought of that. What is the purpose/benefit of the inoculate soak?
It pre feeds the bulbs , HP kills fugus and any mites If you want happy to share Thanks Joe@@REDGardens
Also it's spring garlic use whole thing.@@REDGardens
Thanks!
Excellent research!
Thank you . This was Very informative
Pure quality content, thanks a lot !
I would never have thought of growing garlic in a greenhouse, but I'm going to think about it. A garlic/bean/spinach rotation, for example, sounds interesting.
Greetings from belgium.
Thanks. That does sound like an interesting rotation.
I'm starting trials this year in north Florida. Thermidrone and Lorz this year. Now I'm hoping Termidrome just likes hotter weather than you have. My goal is to eventually grow a mild and a strong/hot variety. Planting starts next week. The one thing I've learned about alliums generally is that if a patch gets diseased, it's all diseased. But, the same variety 30 meters away is can be just fine. I try to split my planting now.
Hope the trials go well for you. I am hoping to end up with 3 or 4 varieties that have different flavours/strengths but that all produce well both outside, and in the polytunnel.
Wow-I am so jealous of those massive roots. I get good garlic but I can imagine how much better they could be because my roots are half that size.
Yeah! They do grow big in that polytunnel!
We grow hardneck in northern US. Last year I planted too early and, yes, too much growth and many of variety pack didn’t make it through the winter. I believe the Musik and Red Chesnik were winners.
This year I waited for frost and then 2-3 weeks after to plant. I thought that would be Halloween, but the weather changed quickly and I planted in 2 weeks so I wouldn’t be out in the cold and snow and that is what today-Halloween-is.
You have a lot of garlic and they say softneck keep better, I couldn’t say as I’ve never tried them here.
It’s a lot of work to keep track of and processing. Good job.
I am sorry that I cannot contribute! I have been watching you for years and feel like I am stealing/taking advantage of you! I wish you the best of health and (if any consolation) inspired by you, I will use any occasion to give some back to those around me. Thank you my friend, you really take this to the...best level!
No worries, I know that only a small portion of people can. I set this project up this way, to share widely, and not have any info behind a paywall. So I am delighted that you get a lot out of my videos, and if you can share with others around you, that is how real change happens!
Doing all the work that you do and still having time to read comments and reply! (Your work ethics puts many of us to shame.) I am glad that more and more people are beginning to appreciate your sacrifice AND the fact that you are doing it all alone, without selling out! Before anything else my friend you are a source of inspiration. I hope that you and your family are much better than ok. @@REDGardens
Ty for info. I love growing garlic but I'm not great at it. Getting better each year I guess
Thank you for sharing
🙂
I'm late this year with garlic and onions. You have just prompted me to order my sets from Fruithill farm.
I am anxious to get back to the gardens to get my garlic in.
Great project. Good to know about the row cover. I thought I was the only one with nosy birds.🪱👍🏼😁
The birds can really make a mess of the crop. I think they are partially curious, but also they might be finding worms tangled around the roots.
Have you tried growing elephant garlic? I grow it in north devon, outside,a similar wet climate, and it grows like stink with no issues, even without irrigation or fertiliser. I harvest not only the bulbs, but the scapes and sometimes the shoots (as technically theyre a leek). This way i have a yield all year around. If it turns out i dont need to harvest all the bulbs one year, the next year they will just form larger clumps. An added bonus is the tall flowers are not only very attractive, but the pollinators seem to love them too.
They grow great, unfortunately to me and many other people they taste awful. Apparently it's one of those flavor chemical that only some people have receptors for.
@@bobaloo2012because elephant garlic actually is not really a garlic - it's more leek than garlic, a whole different crop.
I tried elephant garlic years ago, but didn't really like it.
Great video! Have you tried using a mustard cover crop to help cut down the rust? I live on the southern east coast of USA and because of the humidity rust is an issue in my garden. I find when I grow a cover crop of mustard it helps. Greatly cut back the rust on my beans and garlic. I grow everything outdoors.
That would be a useful thing to try, thanks.
Well done!
Great work, im following you know!!
Hello Red
I've been watching your videos for several years now.
I like you started growing garlic from just a few bulbs. Living in Sweden I found several good varieties. Last July I moved to Romania and my Swedish garlic did well.
If you can guide me to where I can but several good large varieties, I'd greatly appreciate it.
That is interesting that they did well in two very different places. I bought mine from supplier here in Ireland called Fruit Hill Farm.
Really interesting findings!
🙂
Something was getting my okra a few years ago. I found out that if you inoculate them with a beneficial microbe appropriate for the type of plant, it will basically occupy the space that any bad microbe could use to infect.
You can't use super salty fertilizer though or you will have to reinoculate.
As a scientist, I pronounce you a scientist (lol)
Well done!
Still, I think the taste is something you could explore more as in a backyard garden when you can a lot in a small space quality would be more important than quantity.
Yay, thanks! I think the taste preference with garlic is something that will take years to really develop, as it will go hand in hand with how well is stores. Getting a good tasting clove that is still crisp in late spring would be a definite benefit.
One recipe for a taste trial that’could convice more of your friends and neighbourgs is roated garlic heads. Roast in a pan in the oven, next to a butternut squash or a whole chicken (non vegetarians), a third of the clove at least being in the broth in the pan (add vegetable broth if needed.
The garlic gets to be like a paste, lovely on bread, so you can really taste test these for very many bites without it ever being displeasing.
Truly around me, the garlic cloves in our Sunday roast are always a sought-after treat.
Wars cqn be fought if we don’t at least have one per person !
@@TheEmbrio I ended up roasting all of the garlic that I had cut open of the shots in this video! But the varieties got a bit mixed up, and with a few glasses of wine and good company, we just enjoyed the garlic and noticed that there were differences, but couldn't link them to a variety. 😁
@@REDGardensThat's hilarious. Sounds like a great night!
I've done the same with roasted potatoes.
Always useful x
Thanks!
Great science! i wonder if location relative to where its grown has any influence
Great video! I am starting a little garlic breeding project and saw in your video 5:44 that one seemed to not only make bulbils but also actual flowers. Do you remember what variety this was? Thank you for all the great videos!
I think it was the variety called 'Primor'.
@@REDGardens Thank you! That's one of the varieties I have ordered 👍
A very helpful video, thanks.
What preparation did you make to your beds before planting the garlic?
I’m going to my allotment this morning to put garlic in. I’ve been advised however to add a wee touch of lime to the beds?
I mostly use a no-dig approach but not exclusively.
My biggest task today will be keeping my Springer Spaniel pup from digging the bulbs up before the net goes over the bed!
I use a range of different methods for preparing the beds, as I grow garlic in different trial/demonstration gardens that I manage. I am not sure if any of the methods is better than the others.
I think "your strain" did quite well - the smaller cloved producing almost as much as the larger cloves for the other varieties. Could it be that they struggled outside because you're always (?) replanting from those in the polytunnel? (i.e they're adapted to that microclimate, and not to combat rust outdoors)
I have wondered if replanting the ones from inside was an issue, but I have had mixed success with that, and I think any adaptation issue is outweighed by being able to plant bigger cloves. This year, with the variety trial, most of the bulbs were from the supplier, and I assume they were grown outside somewhere.
Plants don’t adapt when you replant bulbs, the genetics is identical. In order to get adaptation you need to reproduce plants by seed.
Shame you didn't try any Solent varieties which do well for us in N Wales (similar to Ireland climate) - Also, on selecting seed garlic. The cloves are a clone so will be basically as the parent so I wouldn't expect any strain development. But I could be wrong (often am!)
I will have to keep an eye out for that variety. I have often seen comments about a strain adapting to conditions, presumably through epigenetic, as clone reproduction would exclude genetic selection as you mention, but I am not sure. I suspect most of the changes people notice is simply because they are selecting bigger cloves to plant, and the fairly straight line I noticed on the graph seems to point mainly to that. But it would be interesting to be wrong on that one.
Really interesting to see these results - I was just thinking about your previous garlic video while out in my own garden today! You mentioned briefly that the different garlics have different flavors and I remember watching Alton Brown's "Good Eats" program growing up where he said smaller cloves are more potent. Have you found this yourself? Any chance you could get access to a mass spectrometer? 😂
I haven't tried enough to notice the difference in the smaller cloves yet, but it would be interesting to see if that idea holds up with the different varieties. A mass spectrometer is on the list of stuff to buy when I win the lottery! 😀
@REDGardens lol! Well if I get access to one in my line of work, I'll see if we can't get some samples from the garden run through 😂
Thanks for another very useful video. One thing you didn't touch on though and that is the importance spacings have on size, I wonder if some of your smaller cloves were a little closer to one another. I remember reading one of Titchmarshes books and he said to buy in fresh every year. I wonder if those who are suffering from repeated disease every year (rust) are causing it by re-use.
Yes, spacing is something that I really want to explore, to see how it affects the size of the bulbs. In the trials I did this past season, I was fairly careful to keep consistent spacing between all the cloves planted in the different gardens, but I think there was uneven competition from other crops in the adjacent beds which may have had an impact on the trial.
I do wonder about the repeated saving of my own seed, and the possibility of passing on diseases, which is apparently a big issue with potatoes. That is one of the reasons why I prefer to use the garlic from the polytunnel as it tends not to be affected by rust, so it reduces the chance of it carrying over.
I recently met a successful small scale garlic farmer. I asked what his secret to huge seed-quality cloves was... he said he plants very late so only roots grow during the winter, and no green shoots develop at all until spring. He said it's best to plant after the ground has a frozen crust, around New Year's Day here in Washington State. I haven't done this myself yet, but want to compare results from Fall and post freeze plantings.
Interesting. If’you can keep your seed cloves in good shape that long. Perhaps in a fridge.
That definitely sounds like something I should explore!
i love it when people go about thinking scientifically in their everyday lives. should be more common
😁
I audibly gasped when you showed the bulbs you grow in the polytunnel. Incredible and gorgeous! (There are two types of people in this world, those who are astonished by the size of ur cloves and normies.)
Haha. Yeah, they are a great crop in that tunnel!
Great video Bruce. Our climate here in Western Oregon is similar to yours much of the year, 5 degrees and rainy, but with warmer, drier summers. For several years now I've only grown garlic in one of my high tunnels due to rust issues, and they do far better in there than outside. I've never seen soft neck garlic the size of yours, all of the soft neck varieties here are half that size or less. Such a great video I've decided to increase my Patreon sub, hope it can help you keep it going.
Very good to hear that you are also having a lot better success avoiding garlic rust in the polytunnel, and in a similar tunnel. I am the opposite here as I haven't seen a really big hard neck variety yet.
Thanks so much for increasing your sub, it really does help!!
I’ve grown both Therador and Messidor (a cross between Therador and Messidrome) this year and both did really well. My soil is river clay with an undeep hummus layer on top. This is different from your soil I think, which either suggests these varieties are tolerant of different soil and weather conditions, and therefore fairly easy to grow, or that it was just a really good year for these varieties. Another variety I grew was Valverde, which didn’t do as well, so for me at least, it wasn’t the case that garlic in general grew well this year.
That is very different soil to grow in, and interesting to know that those varieties did well. I do think garlic is quite easy to grow in general, until there is an issue either with a disease, or with a particular variety or batch of cloves.
@@REDGardens That's the thing though, Valverde, another softneck, didn't do well at all. Might have been a clove issue (they were bought), but they seemed just the same as the other varieties when I planted them. Soil conditions were the same. Who knows why one did well and the other didn't 🤷♂️
Try Lautrec Pink from France. My favourite to grow in Canada.
Great video!!
Are you sure about the Thermidrome, I just bought Thermidrome clovers and they are weighing in average 4,47 g after removing the smallest and the largest is 6.78 g, a quick google search brings up a number of 216 cloves per kg or 4.63 g per clover for Thermidrome. around 4.5 g would fit a lot better in the graph.
Thanks! Interesting calculations, but the bulbs I bought for Thermidrome had cloves that were quite a bit bigger than that, at least the cloves that I planted. I just checked the video clips that I took at the time I separated the cloves, and they were definitely bigger than the rest.
Hi, for rust in dictoyledons it comes from a lack of calcium and magnesium, we first look at the pH of the substrate. There is a blockage of calcium and magnesium below pH 6.5. if not that, we look at the presence of calcium and magnesium in the substrate. If there is calcium and magnesium in the substrate, we look to see if the Liebig barrel is respected, that is to say that all the trace elements are present and assimilable. Certain plants have always extracted the transport and transformation of calcium magnesium by a mycorrhiza. Forced mycorrhization after germination can solve the problem of calcium assimilation. TNC MycorrMax is a good mycorrhiza complex. And 5th point is maybe there is too much light, a little shade sail can also help. All this is for dicotyledons but for monocotyledons it remains to be verified. You have some ideas for removing the rust now. Thanks for your video see you next time. bye
I'd like to see a portion sprayed with vermicompost tea, even in bad weather.
Interesting stuff, something to look into. Our soil is calcareous, with a pH generally over 7.5, so would not have thought there was an issue with calcium absorption. And the test show a fair amount of magnesium, but there could be something blocking their absorption.
@@REDGardensour soil is exactly the same and had awful trouble with rust too this year.
Hello I'm watching from Philippines, we have black garlic in Philippines and native garlic that are very small but very aromatic,l
Wow, those sound interesting!
I have been growing hard neck garlic in zone 9b in California for 20 years. I frequently plant as many as 300 cloves. I have grown varieties from Turkmenistan and Armenia because we like the flavor and they produce large, easy to peel cloves. I plant the cloves in November, and have always dug them up the first week of June. However, a large portion of the plants have formed “witches brooms” the past two years. Last year I thought I had harvested them too late. This year I began digging up a plant every week or two beginning in early April to see how the cloves were developing. Some plants had formed “witches brooms” by mid April and had produced as many as 8 scapes where they should have had only one, and the cloves had separated. I suspect this formation of “witches brooms”. Is caused by the highly variable winter weather we have experienced the past two winters, caused some plants to behave as if they had experienced a summer and were in their second year in the ground. I a now looking for a variety of garlic that is less likely to form “witches brooms”. That may very well be a soft necked variety.
I have had a few plants of a few varieties do that, but didn't know what had caused it. Other varieties seem fine. I will have to keep an eye on that to see if I can figure out what might be causing it.
for me, my top three "needs" are Yield, Flavor, Storability, in that order. If someone were to ask, I would say I am a gardener/foodie, neck and neck, tough to see which is more my personality. So, flavor is important. I cook. A LOT. making sauces, meals, etc. So, for me, flavor is key. How it hold s up. i am only recently coming to garlic, as a crop I grow , and still learning what grows in my garden, here in New England. I have so far only planted two varieties of Hardneck. This coming weekend, I will be planting 3 varieties:
Two new for me: Northern White Hardneck and Chesnok Red
last 2 years: Kejora Siberian hardneck Garlic
I am not happy with the Siberian Red, so, I need to find one that does well.
I would agree with that list, but probably prefer storability over flavour. But that is probably because I haven't really explored and appreciated the difference in flavour yet! I haven't been cooking a lot lately, which is something I miss, and with dietary changes in our house, garlic has been dropped from a lot of what we eat, which really sucks.
Enjoy your garlic growing explorations!
Bruce, @@REDGardens , I'd have to really up amount grown, for us to be able to make our stored garlic last thru the "hunger gap" between harvest and harvest.
Not impossible, but, I am trying to there with quite a few veggies, so, I need to plan my growth of garden carefully, to fill the Hunger gap.
I am looking forward to it, @@Freeland-Farm
I grow Chesnok Red, and the first year, results were not outstanding. Here in Idaho, 7.6ph. The next year, results are much better. I feel I treated each year similarly. I liked the soft neck grocery store variety every bit as well as the expensive Chesnok. Also Chesnok is a stronger tasting garlic than the soft neck type I tried. Good luck!
It would be interesting if there would be a chance to add a couple of garlic varieties from Eastern Europe like Poland, Ukraine etc. to see and compare how they feel and grow in Ireland's climate.
From these varieties which you were growing I knew and was growing only Messidrome which is Dutch variety as much I know, not the best yield if comparing with old garlic varieties from Poland and Latvia.
Great experiment & expierence, thank you for sharing!
That would be interesting.
You should send samples to some foodtube channels, perhaps they know how to compare and taste them. A collab for future comparisons like this for different plant varieties would be cool to see.
Interesting idea!
I feel like the trial on yeild across varieties is done. Further explorations could be focused on the 4 varieties. Perhaps closing out the study on clove size planted to bulb size harvested by comparing across sizes across the 4 varieties is the next exploration.
A quick taste trial of "acceptable or not" among the 4 could be screen test if further taste trials are necessary. IMO, if among the 4, there's one that can score 4 out of 5, comprehensive taste trials across 10 varieties aren't a priority. Rust resistance seems important especially for the outside gardens.
As someone who cooks, I think price (yeild), flavor, clove size (proxy for effort to peel), and storability are important to garlic.
Interesting thoughts, thanks. I think the main focus is with the outside gardens, but I am interested in continuing that trials inside the polytunnel to see if the results are generally repeated, and to harvest varieties when they seem to be at the same stage of development.
The aroma and taste of garlic and other alliums is a sulfur compound, is it beneficial to fertilize with sulphur?
That is a good question, especially as our soils are naturally deficient in sulphur.
If you did not cut the scapes off the hard neck garlic, did you get useful garlic from them? In my experience, leaving the flower on hard neck garlic makes the bulb almost too small to use.
Yes, I still got useful decent bulbs from the hard neck varieties without removing the scapes. It will be interesting to see if the yield increases if I do remove them next year.
2:09 Looks like purple blotch fungal disease/ downy mildew, centre screen at top :).
Treatable with organic inputs.
Try potassium bicarbonate, followed by beneficial bacteria and fungal spray.
Great video.
Many thanks from Australia
Thanks for pointing that out! I really need to get more knowledgeable about these things, and to be more observant. Comments like these are one of the main ways I learn, which is great!
No worries mate :).
I'm not certain but it looks similar to what I've had in my crops. Starts as a small pale circle, changes to purple/black, sheds spores, and can kill the plant in extreme cases.. Have a squiz at your plants, have a google and get back to me :). Im keen to learn more :)
@@REDGardens
"Morado" (which means purple in spanish) makes a perfect shape!
They do!
Ten different, Wow!!😂
Yeah! Thought I'd just get a few, but when I realised there was 10, I figured why not?!
My garlic and shallot yields have been so horrible. I hope I can find a garlic that grows well for me.
Hope you have better success next year.
Adding sulfur will help with or completely eliminate fungal problems.
That would be an interesting to try. Adding to the soil?
@@REDGardens Yes. I guess a foliar spray like bordeaux or burgundy mixture would also work. Or both is also fine.
I am from Nürmberg, germany. We here have an area called Knoblauchsland litterally translated into garlic land :) ofcause. It is an agricultural area at the outskirts of the city which traditionally is responisble for the cities produce. I have been to ireland in the past which is beautiful and i was amazed by the mild(nearly tropical?) stable weather due to the atlantic currents as i was told. Still in many ways it seemed very similar to the rather inland conditions around here. Where did you get your garlic variaties from?
Garlic land, that is interesting. I wonder how many places around cities have names that originate in that kind of cropping.
@@REDGardens germans seem particularly keen on naming a thing after its function. At least i haven't noticed it in anglo saxon/anglo american cultures to this extant sofar and i am sadly not able to understand other languages well enough.
Anyways good luck with your project!
Do you let your selected saved cloves go to seed? If not, I'm not sure if you're doing much genetic selection at all. You might just be cloning the best one seed from the original batch over and over
Garlic never goes to seed, it's lost the ability. Bruce is talking about epigenetic adaptation, not germ line selection.
With Garlic it is just vegetative propagation, or clone as you said, not a seed that has been pollinated with a more diverse genetics. But there is a widely shared idea that if you keep saving the best bulbs that the strain will ‘adapt’ to the local conditions. Not sure if that happens, or how, but apparently it could be some form of epigenetic.
I was under the impression that it was possible to grow the small cloves produced within the Scape?
@@SiApPeter that is interesting. I’ll have to try that.
@@REDGardens From what I've read, the scapes themselves are further clones, but the seeds are beneath them. If memory serves me correct. people try to get garlic seed by brushing off the scapes early in their development because they choke off seed formation. You'll have to check on that. Landrace Gardening is trying to revitalize the species.
Good presentation.
Appreciate the employment of the scientific method.
I look forward to your replication studies.
Happy you found a funding method that works for you 🙂
(I've just finished weighing a few sources of garlic, and have written it down in a log book. I miss research 😅).
WRT young plants pulled up prior to adequate root development - I'm running a pilot experiment in an exposed earth bed (no poly tunnel) where I planted the cloves half between summer solstice and Autumn equinox, and have been pruning the greens off to mulch level to see the impact on bulb development.
My theory is that the roots will establish more extensively without having to also support the greens. Given that hard frost is still some weeks away, differentiation of the Scape buds, nor the clove buds should have yet occurred.
Yesterday was the last scheduled pruning.
Nine months from now will tell if I'm on to something or not.
Interesting experiment.
Please list the names in the description. Trying to pause the video to screenshot your charts is tedious. Thank you for the informative content.
Thanks for the feedback.
Garlic from clove plants are clones of the parent so there will be little adaptation, you will be only selecting for that particular strain that fits best. For adaptation you need to grow garlic from seed.
Some people suggest there can be epigenetic adaptations, but I am not convinced.
where did you source your garlic samples, good sir?
From my main supplier Fruit Hill Farm
Thanks! @@REDGardens
Speaking as a former chef, larger bulbs are easier to work with in the kitchen as well
Very true! A lot less peeling. It seems that a few varieties also have skin that comes off easier.
This dude is a legend do some diffrent variety of rosemary or thyme
😁
@@REDGardens really appreciate you man may god bless you with abundance!
Did you amend your soil at all?
This will be my first time trying garlic.
The soil in this garden is really well developed, with lots of organic matter and amended for every crop, with a general purpose fertiliser. I am not sure how fertile the soil should be for garlic in general.
When you’re saving the largest garlic cloves for the next planting, are these being saved from all the garlic bulbs or just from the largest garlic bulbs? My reasoning is that to breed a specific cultivar you would need to be culling whole genetic strains and that would only be happening if you eliminate whole bulbs of garlic not just the tiniest cloves.
I save just the largest bulbs, and try to select the larger cloves from each,
I appreciate the extra info. It is really surprising that cultivation of the best bulbs and cloves only made a minor improvement. Maybe the species has been cultivated for so long before us that the genes are stable and there isn't enough randomness to produce better or worse crops without crossbreeding. @@REDGardens
Regarding the rust; when do you plant? If you plant early, the foliage will be quite old when rust comes around, and more easily affected. I recommend planting early December or thereabouts, then the green growth will start slow, but will still be relatively young and vigorous in spring, and therefore more resilient. The actual bulb itself will only start to grow around May 1, and it's then that you want your garlic plants to be at their best, not beyond their best.
Regarding taste: the hardnecks have a more intense flavour, which real garlic lovers prefer. Generally garlic is classified into 10 different groups, most of them hardnecks. There's a softneck group called Artichoke - because the cloves tend to come in layers in this group - and by far most of your varieties are from this same group, so that's not a lot of variety. Artichokes are very common in France and Italy, they do well in regions with milder winters. Some garlic groups like much colder winters, but some hardnecks that do well in milder winters are Marbled Purple Stripes and Rocamboles. That are the names of the groups, not varieties, but varieties in the same group behave very similar, so garlic experts often mention the group instead of the variety.
Marbled Purple Stripes and Rocamboles store less well than Artichokes, but then you can use those first, and save your Artichokes and Creoles (Morado is in the Creole group) for later use. Rocamboles are ready to harvest a few weeks before the others, that's an interesting thing about them. They're only growing weak scapes. Most hardnecks grow strong scapes, that you'll want to cut before the flower head is starting to form, because this drains a lot of energy away from the bulb.
Your garlic is looking great; big bulbs, bigger than what I'm growing, but I guess my soil care isn't great, and average sized bulbs do for me. Thanks for the vid.
Thanks fro all that info. I have heard about the groups or types of garlic but there is so little information on them over here, and no specification about the varieties as to what group they are from. Cutting them open I could definitely see the difference!
I planted the outside plants in January, which I thought was already late. it would be interesting to try planting them even later.
@@REDGardens Yeah, January is already late, probably the conditions where you live are ideal for rust, and then I don't know how to improve things for your outside garlic. I wouldn't start planting a heap of garlic later than January, of course a couple of cloves as trial wouldn't go amiss, but the experiences are that the bulbs will stay smaller when planted later than January.
The only standard work about garlic has been written by Ron Engeland, I believe in the 70s already. I haven't read 'Growing Great Garlic' but Ron's farm, Filaree Farm, has a website which also gives good descriptions of the garlic groups. UA-cam can delete posts that give a link, but look for 'Filaree Farm Certified Organic Seed Garlic Varieties'. The description of the different groups are rather good, but not everything fits our climate, like Porcelains are very popular in Canada, very cold winters, but they stay smaller here.
I actually made a mistake in my previous comment; I meant Turbans instead of Rocamboles, because Turbans are nice and early and Rocamboles are actually the latest, although both are suitable for our climate.
British suppliers, possibly those in Ireland as well, seem to be overwhelmingly doing Artichokes, which is a bit of a shame. There's more than that. I'm located in The Netherlands, usually a bit less wet than Ireland in winter, but otherwise not a very different climate. There are better suppliers here, some with 50 - 100 varieties to choose from, although then some are hard to differentiate from each other.
Another real expert on garlic is Letetia Ware, in Tasmania. She shares a lot of info on fb, also on diseases, treatments and stuff. If Letetia would write a book on garlic, you'd have a new standard work on the subject.
@@jangrouwstra3927 Thank you for all that info. It will definitely help me in my journey to understand a lot more about garlic!
It does seem that my supplier has mainly artichoke types, though it is hard to be sure as no real info is provided.
If you harvest the scapes the bulbs get bigger AND you can make garlic-scape-pesto.
Both of those would be great!
How do you cure them? We always seem to fail on that part with it being to high humidity...
I hang them in a place covered by plastic to keep off the rain but let the wind and sun in.
I think on going experiments is needed. Plus which one taste the best??
Indeed.
why do you mainly grow softneck in ireland? it get cold enough to grow hardneck.
I don’t know why it is mainly soft neck available.
In all we have to climatize garlic varieties to our local climate, which may take many seasons.
I am not sure that adaptation really happens very much at all. Any improvement seems to be mostly just planting larger cloves.
❤
Just a question about your so called adapted crop.
Does garlic ever go to seed?
My understanding is that the bulb forms a genetic clone meaning there is no way for it to adapt to the environment.
It apparently can form a seed, in the garlic scape, but I only plant the clove. So, as you say, it is a genetic clone, so there isn't the possibility go the adaptation through the genetic changes. But there is this common idea that the strain will adapt over time, and some people think that it is through epigenetic, which is more how the existing genetics will 'express' in response to the environment. Or something like that.
My brother is a chef and has said that larger cloves have less flavor, is this something you would be able to confirm in your trials?
I haven't been tracking that, but will try to see if I notice a difference.
9:45 why are you disappointed? You took that variety for those years to its greater yield expression and it shows when you compare to the new non selected for yield cloves of it. Do that for 2-3 harvests to the peinador and other 2 high weight bulb varieties and it will be better probably too. You even have cloves to sell that are superior yielding in the category or variety you have had for years and to the buyer of that variety that’s great advantage compared to buying it from a small Clove supplier, so congrats! Keep going!
I had birds pull red onion sets before
Same here. They really seem to like pulling them out!
instant like
instant 🙂
💚💚💚
🙂
While the two broad classes of garlic are hardneck and softneck, it should be noted that garlic can be further divided into three sub-classes of softneck: i,e,, artichoke, silverskin, middle eastern, and eight sub-classes of hardneck: ri.e.,ocambole, asiatic, porcelain, creole, purple stripe, glazed purple strip, marbled purple stripe, and turban. It is these sub-classes that are particularly useful when making choices based on clove size, climate preference, height, shelf life, and harvest date. There are several hundred total varieties of garlic so take some time to educate yourself on this fascinating and rewarding crop plant before buying.
Thanks for that! Such interesting stuff, but so little information about what varieties belong to what group over here. Cutting them all open definitely showed a lot, but I need to do a lot more research.
I grew about twenty varieties from about five different categories on my old farm. This helped to stretch out the harvest so that we could sell scapes, green garlic, and cured heads for a long time. It sold very well at farmer's markets.@@REDGardens
Spare a thought for us unfortunate folk riddled with white rot 😔. I just wish I could grow more garlic. I have to grow 5x what I need, lose at least half. The other half mostly be small and anything decent needs to immediately be frozen in cloves as it won't keep. It works out that I get enough but it's still devastating.
I am so glad I have not had to deal with white rot! The is a hard disease to work around. I was wondering if growing in containers with bought in growing medium would be an option for you.
Look up rye and mustard cover crops to see if this will help this .
I grow a few bulbs in containers but it’s not too practical on a large scale. I’ve attempted a few experiments this year. Apparently following brassicas might help, so I’ve used that bed. I’ve been watering in garlic powder for the last few months. No alliums have been grown in this bed by me. So at least 5 years. Large spacing (8-10inches) and finally a decomposed wood chip mulch. I read the fungi might be able to outcompete white rot. All random things I read on the internet but I’ve nothing to lose so figured I’d try them all 😂