I would call that a BMS fail, and not your design otherwise. Somebody suggested water cooling the BMS, which is a good idea maybe if you want to go with those. Thanks, Jehu, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing!
I would say yes this BMS passed the test but I would definitely implement some kind of cooling or consider putting the BMS further away from the cells or add better heat protection between the BMS and the cells.
Gonna have to get some daly's on there man, surely those cells can handle a continuous load much higher than that and a LOT of ebike guys want more than 2kw sustained. (especially the sur ron guys that would love these)
That was a continuous full load test, you will never do that in an ebike. I call this a win. I've got 3 bikes (all different) and most of the time I am below 50% draw. I think if you ran the motor for that long at full throttle it would burn up first.
Brother 2 question about battery one is about balance of the cells is that BMS include active or passive balancer and last question is about temperature sensor I get experience with my 18650 24v battery the temperature sensor was connected in middle of of the battery but my last cells of battery was getting too much hot I disconnect them I cut the nickel strip so the point is if temperature sensor works only on one cell or little bit are cells can cover so that is not really safety 🤔 if possible can we add more temperature sensor on etch pairs for etch raw ? If possible can explain in your next video will be very thankful for that Thank you very much for always the very informative and educational videos Best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭
52x4 in series = 208Volts which is -/+ voltage on a Prius.. factory stock NiMh cells capacity is only around 1.3kWh but very bulky.. these lithium blocks as range/capacity extender or replacement for older hybrids?
Are you testing the pcb's load ability or the bms's load ability? I would do pcb load test not both. Start at the power source and test each component independently, yaya time, its just time its all we got is time. So was that test objective, subjective, injective, rejective, whats the jective, i wanted to see the pcb's failure prone point, we know all bms's failure point the fets. Using a large heater like that might be a bad idea for the cells under it they will fail first thats my inject.
Lithium ion batteries are always rated in nominal volts. 3.7x13 =48.1V. if you battery charged 52.4V then its not charging fully. Full cell is 4.2V. 13x4.2 = 54.6V
Jehu, you need to get your hands on some real high output 21700 cells, like the Molicel P42A cells are amazing. 4.2ah per cell and a 45 amp continuous rate of discharge. I only ever see you use batteries that do 10 amps continuous output, and that is weak if I'm being honest. Use some real high output cells and you will see what these 21700 cells can really do.
I purchased a 52v 19.2ah 45amp battery from a place called conhis motor. They use Grade A LG 21700 cells apparently. But the performance doesn’t lie. If only I have a battery and controller with higher amps though. 45amps is still fast but I’d like a bit more torque.
@@jehugarcia electro magnetic pulse (emp) . Emp can be from solar flare or on purpose from a bomb type. End result is all unprotected electronic devices get fried.
@@jehugarcia Did you do any further testing on this or just lower the spec to 40A? I'm curious if I use my own higher quality BMS if it will be safer for an eBike build.
Quick question here, (scratch that, base question is simple, big quesiton is large) i am not knowledged in all of this battery tech. I live in Spain. this has nothing to do with not being knowledged, but to what access i also have in batteries and their prices. If i take 130 LG 21700 cells, each 4.8 Ah, and each 3.6 V, then i get 4.8x3.6 = 16,2 Wh (more or less) x 130 = 2.106 Wh (or 2,1 kWh), for the price of $754 USD (normally $ 1.235 USD). however, i can get a 90ah 12v (car) battery for € 74 euro's (that's about $ 75 USD. 90 x 12 = 1.080 Wh (or 1.1 kWh). So let's say that i would need two of those batteries to reach the same as those 21700 cells. That means i'd pay about $ 150 USD VS $ 754 USD. Now i fully understand that it does depend on how to applicate this tech. I imagine 130 21700 cells are a lot lighter in weight compared to 2x a 12v lead acid battery, weighing in total 42 KGs. So obviously, weight is a gigantic factor here. For like a E-step i would imagine obviously that such car batteries make no sense at all. For a bike, obviously, the benefit of being able to carry a 'light' battery to your desk and charging it there makes sense if you make 'large' trips. 130 of these cells weigh about 8kgs, so obviously, that's a difference of 34 kg. But even then - if you could charge your bike in your shed/garage directly from a power source/cable, then 34 kg higher weight obviously is not a little, but let's not forget that for example a woman may weigh 55 kgs and a man 89 kgs. that's still a 34 kg difference, and yes men in general are more 'muscular' than women, but the thing is, nobody bats an eye on such a weight difference in a 'feet powered' bike. So obviously, a 12V battery will bring additional weight, and it's quite bulky too. but so is carrying an extra passenger on your bike, and that's quite a lot more than 34 kg. So one might for example, buy 'carry bags' to put on the rear part of a bike. And it would save you a whopping $ 600 USD. So, why would you then go for these 21700 cells? what is their benefit over a 'classic' lead-acid battery? Additionally, if you were to build like a 'tesla powerwall' alternative, weight really isn't going to be your concern, right? But $ 600 USD cheaper batteries is like really a LOT. If you were to make like a 13 KWh DIY tesla wall (which costs about 10k USD if i'm not mistaken), then you would need to spend like about what, 800 total of those 21700 cells, about $ 4.500 - $ 4.600 USD, right? I mean obviously that is a 'bargain' compared to 10k Tesla 'original' powerwall. But, it would take like 12 of those 90ah 12v car batteries, and that is about $ 888 USD. We're talking about rediculous power differences here. And perhaps i'm mistaken, i probably am, but i don't see where or how, but 12 times a 90ah 12V battery to me equals to 12.96 Kwh. And perhaps i'm mistaken, i probably am, but i don't see where or how, but 750 times a 4.8ah 3.6V battery to me equals to 12.96 Kwh. 12 x 75 USD (Solite lead acid battery) = $ 900,00 USD. 750 x 5,8 USD (21700 LG cells ) $ 4.350,00 USD You save $ 3.450,00 USD by going with (Solite) lead acid batteries. On average, 21700 batteries last between 3-6 years. On average, lead acid batteries last between 3-5 years. If we take the lowest number, 3 years, then they're exactly the same in lifespan. If we take the highest number, 6 years, then 21700 batteries last 1 year longer, but that's not a given. Which brings me back to my question : Or, simply put, let's even IGNORE the COST of the batteries at all. if we want to have 1000 watt-hours, i'd need 'just' 1 90 ah 12v lead-acid car battery. Or i would need 58 21700 cells. What benefit would 58x 4.8ah 3.6v 21700 (LG) cells have over 1x 90ah 12v Lead Acid (Solite) Battery? What is the benefit of 21700 cells over lead-acid batteries? Is it purely and only weight Or, am i going completely and utterly into a totally wrong direction here and am i doing my calculations like a tool and missing some very vital information here? please, enlighten me.
Well…. Lead acid does not last very long if you use 100% of its capacity, so you’ll need to use 2x the battery capacity you need doubling your stated estimated Costs. There’s also maintanence , my forklift lead acid battery need constant checkups and liquid refills, lithium once set is carefree usually. Then there’s the life expectancy, you quoted 6 or so years. The true life of properly used lithium NMC cells is much longer, somewhere around 2000 cycles. My 2nd hand Tesla battery on my diy VW electric bus is almost 12 years old now and I can’t detect any degradation yet. So yes lead acid is cheaper but won’t last you as long and will require more maintanence. Plus, 21700 cells are some of the most expensive lithium cells around, there’s far cheaper lithium cells available like the $63/kwh machE cells ua-cam.com/video/uFsyD74Ph8o/v-deo.html
Hi sir battery is the biggest problem in indin market plz help me it is a big market here i am watching your form you start this channel come wee will make some business if you interested
I would call that a BMS fail, and not your design otherwise. Somebody suggested water cooling the BMS, which is a good idea maybe if you want to go with those. Thanks, Jehu, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing!
"Your gonna need a bigger BMS"
- Chief Brody, Jaws
I would say yes this BMS passed the test but I would definitely implement some kind of cooling or consider putting the BMS further away from the cells or add better heat protection between the BMS and the cells.
I have found over sizing the bms is necessary double them to be safe, use fuses whenever possible.
this looks pretty sweet , I hope I get to build a battery on the inexpensive I'm about to build my own recumbent e trike.
Gonna have to get some daly's on there man, surely those cells can handle a continuous load much higher than that and a LOT of ebike guys want more than 2kw sustained. (especially the sur ron guys that would love these)
It's a Chinese BMS. If it says 45 amps discharge current, they mean 20 amps max. This is alway a translation issue apparently. ;-)
I would never reply on a discharge BMS, for anything important like Regen brakes.
"it'll be open source just like all my projects"
gigachad
Might have to try one out on my 1500watt ebike👍👍👍👍
I think it was a very good test and you chose the right connectors. Looks like it preforms very well. Go and try it on an e-bike 👍
After long time 💖🙌 sunny Bukhari from badin Sindh Pakistan ❤️
Are these spot-welded? If so, any particular spot-welder you can recommend? Looking to get one :-)
That was a continuous full load test, you will never do that in an ebike. I call this a win. I've got 3 bikes (all different) and most of the time I am below 50% draw. I think if you ran the motor for that long at full throttle it would burn up first.
Elevate the BMS slightly to let air flow under it.
Cells should never get hotter than 55-60 degrees C. I wouldn't have kept that inside with 100 degrees C on the package!
130C is like a lot. But it will never reach that temperature in a e-bike. Fir me its a perfect size and perfect specs. 👍
try the bms from Daly, over 80a they have cooling system on the 52v model
Brother 2 question about battery one is about balance of the cells is that BMS include active or passive balancer and last question is about temperature sensor I get experience with my 18650 24v battery the temperature sensor was connected in middle of of the battery but my last cells of battery was getting too much hot I disconnect them I cut the nickel strip so the point is if temperature sensor works only on one cell or little bit are cells can cover so that is not really safety 🤔 if possible can we add more temperature sensor on etch pairs for etch raw ?
If possible can explain in your next video will be very thankful for that
Thank you very much for always the very informative and educational videos
Best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭
Would love this in a 72v for my Phat scooter. Possibly a 20ah or 40ah.
When you test, why not test with the BMS not attached to the battery pack, so you could measure the BMS and the battery pack seperately?
I use Daly bms. U can use thermal paste and fin block coolers on the bms. I also pot the bms in Ge silicone ii inside.
I would love would love to buy one for my ebike , can’t find you link
M50L are good for LOW CURRENT applications. 7 amps per parallel group, be advised! These cells are from 2018
what ever the numbers say for Amps on the low cost bms just divide it 2 and you'll be in with a chance of not over doing it.
I would be interested in buying batteries from u guys. but do u even deliver to Australia???
Could you do a video on how to make a 12 v battery for a tesla model y replacement?
52x4 in series = 208Volts which is -/+ voltage on a Prius.. factory stock NiMh cells capacity is only around 1.3kWh but very bulky.. these lithium blocks as range/capacity extender or replacement for older hybrids?
50-60v 80-100AH range will sell like crack.. get some of those built and in stock please and take my money
i would like to build 150 volt 48s battery with Daly 48s BMS. The charge with 177 volt solar? any thoughts
Are you testing the pcb's load ability or the bms's load ability? I would do pcb load test not both. Start at the power source and test each component independently, yaya time, its just time its all we got is time. So was that test objective, subjective, injective, rejective, whats the jective, i wanted to see the pcb's failure prone point, we know all bms's failure point the fets. Using a large heater like that might be a bad idea for the cells under it they will fail first thats my inject.
What are your thoughts on 38120 LFP vs 2170 LFP?
Where did you get the bag from?
jehuuuuuuuuuuuuuu I don't think I can present this vid to my waifu as ebike argument without being slapped
Sur Ron's stock start at 6kw and then you upgrade from there
You said 14S? My pack voltage when fully charged sits at 54.6v and it is 13s.
Lithium ion batteries are always rated in nominal volts. 3.7x13 =48.1V. if you battery charged 52.4V then its not charging fully. Full cell is 4.2V. 13x4.2 = 54.6V
Would like this in a 72V 20S10P battery using the 21700 batteries,
Jehu, you need to get your hands on some real high output 21700 cells, like the Molicel P42A cells are amazing. 4.2ah per cell and a 45 amp continuous rate of discharge. I only ever see you use batteries that do 10 amps continuous output, and that is weak if I'm being honest. Use some real high output cells and you will see what these 21700 cells can really do.
I use what i have, the day I get hi power cells I’ll use them
I purchased a 52v 19.2ah 45amp battery from a place called conhis motor. They use Grade A LG 21700 cells apparently.
But the performance doesn’t lie. If only I have a battery and controller with higher amps though. 45amps is still fast but I’d like a bit more torque.
Do you try to make your systems that you personally use, emp resistant?
I’ve no idea what that is
@@jehugarcia electro magnetic pulse (emp) . Emp can be from solar flare or on purpose from a bomb type. End result is all unprotected electronic devices get fried.
How do you protect them?
@@jehugarcia making a faraday cage or using ferrites or some sort if shunt to absorb the pulse. Check out emp shield
it should be 80amp bms to run 40 amp
Lol there are guys building bikes kicking 25k-35k. And if you look hard enough you can find them for around $4k +- with negotiated shipping.
Is 2170 cell the same as 21700 ?.
Yes
@@jehugarcia Did you do any further testing on this or just lower the spec to 40A? I'm curious if I use my own higher quality BMS if it will be safer for an eBike build.
Can't pass this off as New now can you!... you have not gotten back to me to let me know if the battery on eBay is this one or not..
its a regular battery, we build them using new cells
Quick question here, (scratch that, base question is simple, big quesiton is large)
i am not knowledged in all of this battery tech. I live in Spain. this has nothing to do with not being knowledged, but to what access i also have in batteries and their prices.
If i take 130 LG 21700 cells, each 4.8 Ah, and each 3.6 V, then i get 4.8x3.6 = 16,2 Wh (more or less) x 130 = 2.106 Wh (or 2,1 kWh), for the price of $754 USD (normally $ 1.235 USD).
however, i can get a 90ah 12v (car) battery for € 74 euro's (that's about $ 75 USD. 90 x 12 = 1.080 Wh (or 1.1 kWh).
So let's say that i would need two of those batteries to reach the same as those 21700 cells. That means i'd pay about $ 150 USD VS $ 754 USD.
Now i fully understand that it does depend on how to applicate this tech. I imagine 130 21700 cells are a lot lighter in weight compared to 2x a 12v lead acid battery, weighing in total 42 KGs.
So obviously, weight is a gigantic factor here. For like a E-step i would imagine obviously that such car batteries make no sense at all.
For a bike, obviously, the benefit of being able to carry a 'light' battery to your desk and charging it there makes sense if you make 'large' trips.
130 of these cells weigh about 8kgs, so obviously, that's a difference of 34 kg.
But even then - if you could charge your bike in your shed/garage directly from a power source/cable, then 34 kg higher weight obviously is not a little, but let's not forget that for example a woman may weigh 55 kgs and a man 89 kgs. that's still a 34 kg difference, and yes men in general are more 'muscular' than women, but the thing is, nobody bats an eye on such a weight difference in a 'feet powered' bike.
So obviously, a 12V battery will bring additional weight, and it's quite bulky too. but so is carrying an extra passenger on your bike, and that's quite a lot more than 34 kg.
So one might for example, buy 'carry bags' to put on the rear part of a bike.
And it would save you a whopping $ 600 USD.
So, why would you then go for these 21700 cells? what is their benefit over a 'classic' lead-acid battery?
Additionally, if you were to build like a 'tesla powerwall' alternative, weight really isn't going to be your concern, right?
But $ 600 USD cheaper batteries is like really a LOT.
If you were to make like a 13 KWh DIY tesla wall (which costs about 10k USD if i'm not mistaken),
then you would need to spend like about what, 800 total of those 21700 cells, about $ 4.500 - $ 4.600 USD, right?
I mean obviously that is a 'bargain' compared to 10k Tesla 'original' powerwall.
But, it would take like 12 of those 90ah 12v car batteries, and that is about $ 888 USD.
We're talking about rediculous power differences here.
And perhaps i'm mistaken, i probably am, but i don't see where or how, but 12 times a 90ah 12V battery to me equals to 12.96 Kwh.
And perhaps i'm mistaken, i probably am, but i don't see where or how, but 750 times a 4.8ah 3.6V battery to me equals to 12.96 Kwh.
12 x 75 USD (Solite lead acid battery) = $ 900,00 USD.
750 x 5,8 USD (21700 LG cells ) $ 4.350,00 USD
You save $ 3.450,00 USD by going with (Solite) lead acid batteries.
On average, 21700 batteries last between 3-6 years.
On average, lead acid batteries last between 3-5 years.
If we take the lowest number, 3 years, then they're exactly the same in lifespan.
If we take the highest number, 6 years, then 21700 batteries last 1 year longer, but that's not a given.
Which brings me back to my question :
Or, simply put, let's even IGNORE the COST of the batteries at all.
if we want to have 1000 watt-hours,
i'd need 'just' 1 90 ah 12v lead-acid car battery.
Or i would need 58 21700 cells.
What benefit would 58x 4.8ah 3.6v 21700 (LG) cells have over 1x 90ah 12v Lead Acid (Solite) Battery?
What is the benefit of 21700 cells over lead-acid batteries?
Is it purely and only weight
Or, am i going completely and utterly into a totally wrong direction here and am i doing my calculations like a tool and missing some very vital information here?
please, enlighten me.
Well…. Lead acid does not last very long if you use 100% of its capacity, so you’ll need to use 2x the battery capacity you need doubling your stated estimated
Costs. There’s also maintanence , my forklift lead acid battery need constant checkups and liquid refills, lithium once set is carefree usually. Then there’s the life expectancy, you quoted 6 or so years. The true life of properly used lithium NMC cells is much longer, somewhere around 2000 cycles. My 2nd hand Tesla battery on my diy VW electric bus is almost 12 years old now and I can’t detect any degradation yet. So yes lead acid is cheaper but won’t last you as long and will require more maintanence. Plus, 21700 cells are some of the most expensive lithium cells around, there’s far cheaper lithium cells available like the $63/kwh machE cells ua-cam.com/video/uFsyD74Ph8o/v-deo.html
@@jehugarcia thank you so much!
Need to water cool the BMS
Why choose dumb bms when Smart bmses are so much better?
not the greatest BMS. let's replace that.
🥈
Hi sir battery is the biggest problem in indin market plz help me it is a big market here i am watching your form you start this channel come wee will make some business if you interested
1st!!!
yead mid ebike
Fire hazard. If u buy ebike battery make sure it has ce stamp. I hope u have insurance