Something crazy about the silver trident that makes it even better imo; If used on a wyvern it can target the back row, similar to how a shield shooter with a pursuit bracelet can do follow up attacks to the back row. The ability to attack the back row before getting fire breath is crazy, stunning back row is crazy, and getting the ability to stun either row before rosalinde in general is insane.
I think you've misunderstood General's Pike, you haven't tested it so understandable but. Phalanx Shift activates on any attack the enemy lands on your allies and don't have to be cavalry. Been using it in my playthrough so was surprised when you mentioned the effect and tried it out just in case I had gotten it wrong in the colosseum against an infantry team (the Everfrost if you were wondering) and it still goes off. It's just a big row buff that only affects cav. Pretty decent if maybe a bit overkill since the cavalry will likely kill everything either way
There is a translation issue on this one. It activates when you’re attacked but the buff only increases damage AGAINST cavalry. Unfortunately not even cav call at home 😔
So the overall effect is that it is a conditional thing that seems like a bad cav call which is more aggressive/not reactive lol. In other words, the weapon isn't very good still lol
I'd disagree on spear units not needing PP. Early-midgame, without access to sapphires, great knights would want to hit 4 PP for cav call and knights pursuit. sergeants would want 4 PP too for multibuffing with active gift/keen edge, werefoxes would want alot of those for multiple shadow pursuit blinds...alot really benefit from getting +1 PP from weapons (and another +1 via lapis) especially if you've got the limited sapphires allocated elsewhere early. Based on my tests, testarossa outdamages forged twinned boughs (or any other hybrid non-king spear) using elemental roar on the elven sisters buffed by sniper amber lens. Have you tried to do a comp/test with testarossa?
In my experience with the game on TZ knights tend to attack 2 times and I only really needed 1-2 PP on them, by that time the entire enemy team is dead. You do lose out on hard stats by running the early +1 PP weapons as they kill init and health.
What about for hoplites or legionnaires for the dragonbone spear? They dont really need initiative since most of their kit relies on their passive point plus some other better spears could be used for other spear classes
did you forget that hoplites and legionnaires run lances/ spears? they're one of the few spear classes that don't care about initiative or crit rate and which actually benefit from guard rate.
A situation where I find them situationally useful is in stun locking the boss, as you need lower than 29 initiative so your turn comes after his, meaning he wakes up from Rosalinda's stun and then gets stunned again by a Knight.
Kingslance is def better than Tess. You need more base damage in order to really get decent scaling out of the % of crit multiplier. See below for a simplified example, obviously things like enemy defense and potency are relevant, but both are static modifiers, so really doesn't change the efficacy of the example: This either sister is using Snipers Lens for true/crit buff 50x1.8=90 (Tess) 75x1.5=112.5 (Kingslance) (This example also only uses magic attack, since most of the Elven sisters abilities double dip, it pushes Kingslance even further ahead).
Gonna try to math this out too, Kingslance is 25 + 15 = 40 total Atk + Matk stat vs 25 atk of Testarossa (both upgraded) for Elemental Roar damage calculation. Using a Gambler's coin buff 30% means it's 15 x 1.3 = 19.5 more dmg with Kingslance than Testarossa. before crit rate modifiers. A critical hit buffed with gamblers coin boost it to 2x dmg, so +39 dmg. We need Testarossa +30% crit dmg to be more than 39 dmg, so the base dmg has to be 39/0.3 = 130 dmg Testarossa 130 x 2.3 = 299 dmg Kingslance (130 + 19.5) x 2 = 299 dmg so 130 is the breakeven point. Any more than 130 base dmg means Testarossa +30% crit damage will be better than the flat +15 dmg that Kingslance has over Testarossa using Elemental Roar.
But I think Kingslance should always be better than Tess, since if you are doing more damage than Testarossa until you do over 299 dmg, and at that point no normal enemy should survive that damage and then Testarossa is just extra overkill.
I would say that Spears are the best Weapon Class, with Swords below that, and Axes at the bottom. Wouldn’t know where to put Bows, but they’re not used as much as the other three.
Spears are definitely the best weapon with Silver Trident row stun, Elf twin single target stun/freeze, Unwavering Spear early game scout killing and that many of the best classes use spears (Great Knight, Elf Twins, Wyvern) I don't know if Sword are better than Axes Axe have Crushing Axe/Frozen Battleaxe early game single target stun/freeze is great to block Gladiators from self healing, A Gryphon can be a counter to cavs and gladiator this way. Giant Greataxe is a row stun although it hurts your initiative. The downside of Axes is that it has no good counter against armor besides Phantom Knight Axe, which is worse than the Runic weapons. Swords have a very strong early game with Cornix Blade, Runic Sword, Templar's sword and Heavenswing Sword. I think Swords start better than Axes and then Axes become better once they catch up to their power. Bows are easily the worst of the 4, Phantom Knight'sbow which isn't that good for anti armor as they can't ever get bonus dmg on infantry armor as no cav unit uses a bow, All the classes using bow are kinda mediocre until Yunifi/Featherbows.
I'm trying to make a werfox squad thats entirely status condition heavy to kill opponents. Can you inflict poison a burning at the same time? I want to use 2 druids back line and 2 werfox front line with 1 support front or back line. Have the werfoxes evasion tank and lock down rows with silver trident while enemies lose health with status effects.
I'm pretty sure that you are wrong about critical damage calcs. I tested the coin and without coin your crits are 1.5x and with coin they are 2.0x, not 1.75x. So '+critical damage' seems to work like '+potency' effects - your critical damage= '50%+bonuses', not '50% multiplied by bonuses'.
Think there’ll be DLC with more classes or something? Feels like there’s weapons (great wood spear for example) that feel kind of pointless in their existence
Beyond your herecy on the phantom spear this is a good tier list. I like that when you forge the phantom you get 25 but the runic gives you just 20 cuz it's a hybrid.
Who can use the phantom spear in a good use case though? The best spear users are physical or hybrid so it lacks a clear use case. Elven sisters want hybrid for board nukes. Knights/Wyverns want physical or hybrid as they are more physical for their row/board attacks.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I guess xD I'm not the most competitive person at all lol so (I mean if it works I'm good)... But I have a forged one on the sister that does more curing magic and she wrecks xD I'm sure she's great either way, but her sister has the kingslance so. And a phantom sword on rallanor or w/e. But I take it you might differ on your take a bit just because this is a spear, and that makes sense.
I like your other tier lists but this one is flat wrong for many spears. You never once considered defensive units like Hodrick and many spears you graded low are amazing for great shield defensive classes who use spear
A lady in a hut gives it to you IIRC. She lives by the river but sadly, I can’t for the life of me remember where exactly. Edit. Found it (I think) it’s a house with a waterwheel beside the Zenith Sigil Trial in Cornia.
@@Mocha._.CoffeeThank you, feel so dumb for not noticing that water wheel... I ran around everywhere else checking to see if I missed forts/houses/ruins everywhere but there...
I think Unwavering Spear has an argument to be S-tier tbh because its availability is basically perfect and it lets Knights oneshot scout classes all game long. It scales just fine into endgame with a forge too, +13 damage is so juicy. Kingslance Eihal annoys me for being mixed damage lol, basically only the elf twins can use it to its fullest which means they can’t use the Twinned Boughs which are ALSO basically only used on them. I wish it was at least a 20/10 weapons instead of vice versa so I don’t feel like I’m giving up 10 damage using them on another class.
I think Unwavering Lance is mostly early game tool, it's only 12 atk and 80% modifier, it let you stomp early game scouts and reliable hit Gryphons early, but then it probably gets benched when you enter Drakenhold, Wyverns got too much defense and get Deflect at lvl 15 that blocks melee attacks. I guess it makes a big return when you can upgrade it in Albion, which is full of flying feather enemies that have poor defense.
I have 2 forged unwavering spears on my cavalry super team since cavalry is so vulnerable vs flyers. Just gotta have it on so my cavalry team won’t have hard counters to them. And it’s 80 truestrike damage that hits a column. I say S-tier imo. XD
It gets countered by Wyvern Deflect skill, the better option is to row stun them with Silver Trident + true hit from Sniper Lens/lvl 15 Witch skill Focus Sight since stunned enemies can't dodge or use passive skills, Silver Trident is far more worthy of S tier.
@@tricky2795Yes, I have a seargent at the backrow with high initiative use a silver trident to do a row stun before I unleash my cavalry on them. In instances where the stun is refreshed/removed or negated, the true strike of the unwavering comes into play as a further fallback for the team to take on flyers but an early row stun is integrated into the team. Tbh, though, the unwavering strike is so dependable because there are far less counters on the opponent’s side vs the true thrust than there are for the silver trident stun. At least on my experience. I’ve done my TZ run and has encountered very few teams that can counter my cavalry team (I’ll go as far and say I don’t recall it getting countered even once other than the boss fights). And there are far more flyers than just the wyvern. The reason why unwavering is S-tier is not just for the fact that it works on late game, it’s also that it’s availabe from early game and doesn’t drop-off even til endgame. It maintains it’s use all the way through and I never had to take it off my cavalry. Bear in mind I’m only talking about the story part of the game tho, not colloseum (as that’s a different animal altogether).
@@tricky2795 Yes, I have a seargent at the backrow with high initiative use a silver trident to do a row stun before I unleash my cavalry on them. In instances where the stun is refreshed/removed or negated, the true strike of the unwavering comes into play as a further fallback for the team to take on flyers but an early row stun is integrated into the team. Tbh, though, the unwavering strike is so dependable because there are far less counters on the opponent’s side vs the true thrust than there are for the silver trident stun. At least on my experience. I’ve done my TZ run and has encountered very few teams that can counter my cavalry team (I’ll go as far and say I don’t recall it getting countered even once other than the boss fights). And there are far more flyers than just the wyvern. The reason why unwavering is S-tier is not just for the fact that it works on late game, it’s also that it’s availabe from early game and doesn’t drop-off even til endgame. It maintains it’s use all the way through and I never had to take it off my cavalry. Bear in mind I’m only talking about the story part of the game tho, not colloseum (as that’s a different animal altogether).
@@tricky2795my replies must have been too long. Can’t see them being posted here (unless youtube is being iffy). Anyway, lemme shorten it and post one more time: I use the silver trident on my cav team too but on a seargent with high init. But in my experience, there are far more counters vs the stun (can cleanse it, be immune to it or be negated, etc) than vs the true thrust. And there are far more flyers than just the wyvern. I still use both tho. Unwavering is good from the start on my cav team and is useful from start to endgame in my entire TZ run. S-tier.
can anyone tell me where to find the testarossa? I had it in my first playthrough but can't find it in my true zenoiran playthrough nvm found it thanks to another comment
@@Lynacchi it's been 4 months, so my memory is a little hazy. I believe it's in the last area before the final battle (southeast of that) at a watermill.
Mostly wrong but your eval of general soear was the worst. Its one of the best spears in game, easy high A. No, you dont need to be attacked specifically by cav for it to function. Any attack makes it work. It turns a row of Ally cav into unstoppable beasts for a single passive point with zero draw back. Assessments like that one angered me. Dont listen people! Use generals spear on a row of ally cav, its better than cav call and we all know hiw strong that skill is!
I don't let the enemy attack me and cav call always works/is not reliant on getting attacked. You can let the enemy attack you in PVE, but it is just worse than shutting them down/killing them immediately.
Something crazy about the silver trident that makes it even better imo; If used on a wyvern it can target the back row, similar to how a shield shooter with a pursuit bracelet can do follow up attacks to the back row. The ability to attack the back row before getting fire breath is crazy, stunning back row is crazy, and getting the ability to stun either row before rosalinde in general is insane.
We really need a DLC with classes that are magical weapon users, I feel.
That’s what I’m getting from this.
Also we need swords that hit rows or columns.
I think you've misunderstood General's Pike, you haven't tested it so understandable but. Phalanx Shift activates on any attack the enemy lands on your allies and don't have to be cavalry. Been using it in my playthrough so was surprised when you mentioned the effect and tried it out just in case I had gotten it wrong in the colosseum against an infantry team (the Everfrost if you were wondering) and it still goes off. It's just a big row buff that only affects cav. Pretty decent if maybe a bit overkill since the cavalry will likely kill everything either way
So it is cav call at home but for any cav and in response to getting hit? That makes it slightly better though not by much.
There is a translation issue on this one. It activates when you’re attacked but the buff only increases damage AGAINST cavalry. Unfortunately not even cav call at home 😔
It works for all allies but is only a buff when attacking cavalry, that’s why the default condition for the skill is Cavalry Enemies Present!
It doesnt even have to land. it activates on enemy attack. Even if you evade the attack. Then it buffs your cavs.
So the overall effect is that it is a conditional thing that seems like a bad cav call which is more aggressive/not reactive lol. In other words, the weapon isn't very good still lol
I'd disagree on spear units not needing PP. Early-midgame, without access to sapphires, great knights would want to hit 4 PP for cav call and knights pursuit.
sergeants would want 4 PP too for multibuffing with active gift/keen edge, werefoxes would want alot of those for multiple shadow pursuit blinds...alot really benefit from getting +1 PP from weapons (and another +1 via lapis) especially if you've got the limited sapphires allocated elsewhere early.
Based on my tests, testarossa outdamages forged twinned boughs (or any other hybrid non-king spear) using elemental roar on the elven sisters buffed by sniper amber lens. Have you tried to do a comp/test with testarossa?
In my experience with the game on TZ knights tend to attack 2 times and I only really needed 1-2 PP on them, by that time the entire enemy team is dead. You do lose out on hard stats by running the early +1 PP weapons as they kill init and health.
The Sanguine attack is good for early game hoplite, when you dont have healers. Add the guard impetus and you have a vampire tank.
Hoplites have extremely bad attack, only D tier and C when promoted. Draining only 50% of that dmg dealt is almost nothing
@tricky2795 that's kind of the point. In early game the hoplite barely gets hurt from physical, so he doesn't need that much hp to recover.
Dragonspear is good for hoplite that uses a lot of PP to defend themselves and teammates and we aren’t counting on its attack power
What about for hoplites or legionnaires for the dragonbone spear? They dont really need initiative since most of their kit relies on their passive point plus some other better spears could be used for other spear classes
did you forget that hoplites and legionnaires run lances/ spears? they're one of the few spear classes that don't care about initiative or crit rate and which actually benefit from guard rate.
No, but they aren't anywhere near the top of a tier list so if they can use a spear well it isn't super relevant to the items placement.
A situation where I find them situationally useful is in stun locking the boss, as you need lower than 29 initiative so your turn comes after his, meaning he wakes up from Rosalinda's stun and then gets stunned again by a Knight.
I think they were ignored intentionally. 😆
I was able to leverage an ok amount of magic for chole for her to make use of one of the Elf sister's lances
Am I blind or did you miss the Templar’s Lance?
Eh it’s probably C-Tier at most anyways.
Thanks for another great look into these weapons! The insight you bring is extremely helpful.
Your D tiers are on point. (^_^) d
Kingslance is def better than Tess. You need more base damage in order to really get decent scaling out of the % of crit multiplier. See below for a simplified example, obviously things like enemy defense and potency are relevant, but both are static modifiers, so really doesn't change the efficacy of the example:
This either sister is using Snipers Lens for true/crit buff
50x1.8=90 (Tess)
75x1.5=112.5 (Kingslance)
(This example also only uses magic attack, since most of the Elven sisters abilities double dip, it pushes Kingslance even further ahead).
Gonna try to math this out too,
Kingslance is 25 + 15 = 40 total Atk + Matk stat vs 25 atk of Testarossa (both upgraded) for Elemental Roar damage calculation.
Using a Gambler's coin buff 30% means it's 15 x 1.3 = 19.5 more dmg with Kingslance than Testarossa. before crit rate modifiers.
A critical hit buffed with gamblers coin boost it to 2x dmg, so +39 dmg.
We need Testarossa +30% crit dmg to be more than 39 dmg, so the base dmg has to be 39/0.3 = 130 dmg
Testarossa 130 x 2.3 = 299 dmg
Kingslance (130 + 19.5) x 2 = 299 dmg
so 130 is the breakeven point.
Any more than 130 base dmg means Testarossa +30% crit damage will be better than the flat +15 dmg that Kingslance has over Testarossa using Elemental Roar.
But I think Kingslance should always be better than Tess, since if you are doing more damage than Testarossa until you do over 299 dmg, and at that point no normal enemy should survive that damage and then Testarossa is just extra overkill.
I would say that Spears are the best Weapon Class, with Swords below that, and Axes at the bottom.
Wouldn’t know where to put Bows, but they’re not used as much as the other three.
Spears are definitely the best weapon with Silver Trident row stun, Elf twin single target stun/freeze, Unwavering Spear early game scout killing and that many of the best classes use spears (Great Knight, Elf Twins, Wyvern)
I don't know if Sword are better than Axes
Axe have Crushing Axe/Frozen Battleaxe early game single target stun/freeze is great to block Gladiators from self healing, A Gryphon can be a counter to cavs and gladiator this way.
Giant Greataxe is a row stun although it hurts your initiative.
The downside of Axes is that it has no good counter against armor besides Phantom Knight Axe, which is worse than the Runic weapons.
Swords have a very strong early game with Cornix Blade, Runic Sword, Templar's sword and Heavenswing Sword.
I think Swords start better than Axes and then Axes become better once they catch up to their power.
Bows are easily the worst of the 4, Phantom Knight'sbow which isn't that good for anti armor as they can't ever get bonus dmg on infantry armor as no cav unit uses a bow,
All the classes using bow are kinda mediocre until Yunifi/Featherbows.
I'm trying to make a werfox squad thats entirely status condition heavy to kill opponents. Can you inflict poison a burning at the same time? I want to use 2 druids back line and 2 werfox front line with 1 support front or back line. Have the werfoxes evasion tank and lock down rows with silver trident while enemies lose health with status effects.
if you dont have an answer yet, yes - burn and poison stack. thats how I did half my damage vs Cursed Amalia
I'm pretty sure that you are wrong about critical damage calcs. I tested the coin and without coin your crits are 1.5x and with coin they are 2.0x, not 1.75x. So '+critical damage' seems to work like '+potency' effects - your critical damage= '50%+bonuses', not '50% multiplied by bonuses'.
You could be right about this, if so it just makes it more OP lol
I think the Hail weapons should get hybrid stats favoring strength, to go with their hybrid attack. Would make them significantly better
In hybrid: you can always give a unit magic conferral which will use Magic attack.
Think there’ll be DLC with more classes or something? Feels like there’s weapons (great wood spear for example) that feel kind of pointless in their existence
Probably not. Vanillaware isn't really known to do DLC.
Beyond your herecy on the phantom spear this is a good tier list. I like that when you forge the phantom you get 25 but the runic gives you just 20 cuz it's a hybrid.
Who can use the phantom spear in a good use case though? The best spear users are physical or hybrid so it lacks a clear use case.
Elven sisters want hybrid for board nukes. Knights/Wyverns want physical or hybrid as they are more physical for their row/board attacks.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I guess xD I'm not the most competitive person at all lol so (I mean if it works I'm good)... But I have a forged one on the sister that does more curing magic and she wrecks xD I'm sure she's great either way, but her sister has the kingslance so.
And a phantom sword on rallanor or w/e. But I take it you might differ on your take a bit just because this is a spear, and that makes sense.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I'm mostly thinking of this from the aspect of the sword really though :/
I like your other tier lists but this one is flat wrong for many spears. You never once considered defensive units like Hodrick and many spears you graded low are amazing for great shield defensive classes who use spear
I have never seen the Tessarosa before. Where does this come from, tried looking it up online and can't find any information on it anywhere.
A lady in a hut gives it to you IIRC. She lives by the river but sadly, I can’t for the life of me remember where exactly. Edit. Found it (I think) it’s a house with a waterwheel beside the Zenith Sigil Trial in Cornia.
@@Mocha._.CoffeeThank you, feel so dumb for not noticing that water wheel... I ran around everywhere else checking to see if I missed forts/houses/ruins everywhere but there...
I think Unwavering Spear has an argument to be S-tier tbh because its availability is basically perfect and it lets Knights oneshot scout classes all game long. It scales just fine into endgame with a forge too, +13 damage is so juicy.
Kingslance Eihal annoys me for being mixed damage lol, basically only the elf twins can use it to its fullest which means they can’t use the Twinned Boughs which are ALSO basically only used on them. I wish it was at least a 20/10 weapons instead of vice versa so I don’t feel like I’m giving up 10 damage using them on another class.
I think Unwavering Lance is mostly early game tool, it's only 12 atk and 80% modifier, it let you stomp early game scouts and reliable hit Gryphons early, but then it probably gets benched when you enter Drakenhold, Wyverns got too much defense and get Deflect at lvl 15 that blocks melee attacks.
I guess it makes a big return when you can upgrade it in Albion, which is full of flying feather enemies that have poor defense.
The only 2 spears I'm missing are Testerossa and orchis spear but I don't know where they are
BIG TOY TIER LIST WOOO
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Phalanx activates when you get attacked.
I have 2 forged unwavering spears on my cavalry super team since cavalry is so vulnerable vs flyers. Just gotta have it on so my cavalry team won’t have hard counters to them. And it’s 80 truestrike damage that hits a column. I say S-tier imo. XD
It gets countered by Wyvern Deflect skill, the better option is to row stun them with Silver Trident + true hit from Sniper Lens/lvl 15 Witch skill Focus Sight since stunned enemies can't dodge or use passive skills, Silver Trident is far more worthy of S tier.
@@tricky2795Yes, I have a seargent at the backrow with high initiative use a silver trident to do a row stun before I unleash my cavalry on them. In instances where the stun is refreshed/removed or negated, the true strike of the unwavering comes into play as a further fallback for the team to take on flyers but an early row stun is integrated into the team. Tbh, though, the unwavering strike is so dependable because there are far less counters on the opponent’s side vs the true thrust than there are for the silver trident stun. At least on my experience. I’ve done my TZ run and has encountered very few teams that can counter my cavalry team (I’ll go as far and say I don’t recall it getting countered even once other than the boss fights). And there are far more flyers than just the wyvern. The reason why unwavering is S-tier is not just for the fact that it works on late game, it’s also that it’s availabe from early game and doesn’t drop-off even til endgame. It maintains it’s use all the way through and I never had to take it off my cavalry. Bear in mind I’m only talking about the story part of the game tho, not colloseum (as that’s a different animal altogether).
@@tricky2795 Yes, I have a seargent at the backrow with high initiative use a silver trident to do a row stun before I unleash my cavalry on them. In instances where the stun is refreshed/removed or negated, the true strike of the unwavering comes into play as a further fallback for the team to take on flyers but an early row stun is integrated into the team. Tbh, though, the unwavering strike is so dependable because there are far less counters on the opponent’s side vs the true thrust than there are for the silver trident stun. At least on my experience. I’ve done my TZ run and has encountered very few teams that can counter my cavalry team (I’ll go as far and say I don’t recall it getting countered even once other than the boss fights). And there are far more flyers than just the wyvern. The reason why unwavering is S-tier is not just for the fact that it works on late game, it’s also that it’s availabe from early game and doesn’t drop-off even til endgame. It maintains it’s use all the way through and I never had to take it off my cavalry. Bear in mind I’m only talking about the story part of the game tho, not colloseum (as that’s a different animal altogether).
@@tricky2795my replies must have been too long. Can’t see them being posted here (unless youtube is being iffy). Anyway, lemme shorten it and post one more time: I use the silver trident on my cav team too but on a seargent with high init. But in my experience, there are far more counters vs the stun (can cleanse it, be immune to it or be negated, etc) than vs the true thrust. And there are far more flyers than just the wyvern. I still use both tho. Unwavering is good from the start on my cav team and is useful from start to endgame in my entire TZ run. S-tier.
@@Mocha._.Coffee I don't remember there being many flying enemies in combination with a Cleric if at all
TIP: Death Pillar is for professional players.
We need guides on how to counter meta pvp teams 😢
can anyone tell me where to find the testarossa?
I had it in my first playthrough but can't find it in my true zenoiran playthrough
nvm found it thanks to another comment
where?
@@Lynacchi it's been 4 months, so my memory is a little hazy. I believe it's in the last area before the final battle (southeast of that) at a watermill.
@@Zihark92 yeh got it, thank you
I disagree, because you’re wrong; top that argument
Mostly wrong but your eval of general soear was the worst. Its one of the best spears in game, easy high A. No, you dont need to be attacked specifically by cav for it to function. Any attack makes it work. It turns a row of Ally cav into unstoppable beasts for a single passive point with zero draw back. Assessments like that one angered me. Dont listen people! Use generals spear on a row of ally cav, its better than cav call and we all know hiw strong that skill is!
I don't let the enemy attack me and cav call always works/is not reliant on getting attacked.
You can let the enemy attack you in PVE, but it is just worse than shutting them down/killing them immediately.