The 64 442 did in fact stand for 4 speed, 4 barrel and dual exhaust. You couldn't get it with an automatic. The only motor was a 330. In 65 the nomenclature changed to 400, 4 barrel and dual exhaust due to the new 400 engine. In 65 on an automatic was available.
You're right. 400 cubes 4 barrel n dual exhaust. Mine was Target Red and I I raced it successfully for 3 years. $31,50. I was running mid to high 12 second quarter mile passes. GTO never even got close to me. The Dodge RT was the ones to take serious. 65 Goat was the nicest year they ever built. Beautiful car.
I special ordered the first 1965 442 to come to El Paso, delivered in late 1964. I raced a 1964 GTO 4 speed. I had the 2 speed auto. I took him off the line but he eventually pulled me when he hit about 3rd gear. Great fun. I also special ordered a 1968 442 and a 1970 with the Ram Air hood, The 70 was awesome.
Awesome! My first car was a black 65 442 with black American Torque Thrust mag wheels. My uncle worked for GM. He ordered his in mid-65 and got the 66 model's cam in the 400, which gave it 25 more HP. It was so beautiful. Also had a 71 W30 with the M22 that was pumped 30-over. It was an asphalt-eating monster. Still wish I had the 65, though.
One thing for sure, no matter which one you choose you couldn't go wrong. They're both EPIC muscle cars that jump started the muscle car performance era. Take care my friend, Semper Fi!👍
That is a kool comment. My nick name is to kool. Bith are phein branominal. Fred braintree. He is excactlly correcy an origiall was a 442. 4 speed dual exhaust. End of story. The be chasung gtos and mopars. My un m e had a 68 or 69. Iwas 8 years old. A cutlass somthing 442. Blue with a black top. Oh my fucking god this guys talking 350 or. 360. Hp. Real horse. Oh y fuckin GOD. Po. Tiac. WOW. Dont firget thebiick. Pontiacs. Gtos. Therere ithed pontiacs. Bonneville. A n d others. One you m ay NEVER HAVE HEARD IF MIRADA. FULL PIWER SKIRTS. BIGGER AND BADDER. THAN A PONTIAC 4 4 + 2. 8 LUG. THE MIRADA WAS VERY FUCKIN LIMITED EDITION. ONMY AVAILABME FIR I OR 2 YEARS. SICK. BIGGEST ENGINE. SKIRTS. AND TRI P O WER. THAT TRI POWER. IS ONE OF TBEE KOOLEST. OOTIINS EVER FUCKIN. PRODUCED. THEN FOLLOWED BY MOPAR. DODGE CHRYS L ER. HEMI. PONTIAC. WAS 1ST. P PERIOD AND ON C O WELL INDUCTION. FIRCING THE AIR. COMING OVER THE HOOD. AND STUFFING IT STRAIG B T TO THE ENGINE. IMLROVING COOLING AND OREFORMA B.BCE. LER IA COICHA OR THE OTBER KOOL.FUCKIN BASTARD. JHON DELORIAN. ONE OF TBE BEST ENGINEERS IN THE I DUSTRY TO TGIS DAY. FRED NOBLE BRAINTREE BOSTON. WHERE WIULD WE BE WUTH OHT HIM EVENTUALLY WENT TO FORD. WOW. HIM AND CAROL. MUST HAVE B EEN LAUGBING THERE ASSES OFF DESIGHINING THE FUCKIN SHELBY. ENOUGH SEID. SEID FRED. NOBKE FENCE. BRAINTREE BISTIN4 MASSACHUSSETS. NIGHTFENCER GATEKEEPER
My brother had two 1965 GTO's, the first he bought new in '65, gold color, hardtop, 389, 4-speed. It was sweet. Then he returned from Vietnam, got married, had kid's, goodbye GTO. Then many year's later, he bought another '65, red convertible, 389, 4- speed. Completely went thru it, body off restoration. Would drive it on nice day's. Keep it a couple of year's, then sold it to a collector from Denmark I believe. Now he wished he had another one.
Also in 64 the only transmission available in a 442 was a 4 speed manual and they all had the 310 horse 330 engine. 4 barrel-4 speed-dual exhaust was the original meaning of 4-4-2
1964: 4spd, 4bbl, dual exhaust. 1965: 400cid, 4 bbl, dual exhaust. 1966: 400cid, 4spd, dual exhaust. After that it was simply a model designation. I was there, live and in person. My bil had a ‘65 and my wife had a ‘65 Cutlass hdtp with a 330cid engine like the ‘64 442 but with 5 hp more. 310 vs 315.
@Robert LaPointe I agree with the above comments about the model designation for 4 barrel, 4 speed, dual exhaust. The original motor was a 330 then a 400 in 1965 and automatics were available. I had a special ordered 442 in 1967. That year there were two engine options, the regular 400 and the 400 with air induction. I wanted A/C and as such I had to order the regular car. I later modified it with the OEM air induction kit, consisting of the air cleaner box, tubes, and battery cable for mounting it in the trunk. The cams were different and I had to get the air induction cam separately from the parts dept. I know the three two barrel option was available in 1966, but I don't think it was available in 67, at least not in May or June when I ordered the car. It had a Rochester quadrajet. The three 2's could have been available earlier and discontinued or I just missed it, which is hard to believe as I was only interested in performance at that time.
When the 4-4-2 appeared in '64, they were euipped with the 330. So, there goes the 400 cube myth. If both cars didn't tear up those 2-speed Jetaways, they must have been pretty good transmissions. The THD-400 was, of course, available for 1966
4 speed, 4 barrel, dual exhaust was the original meaning behind 4-4-2. They eventually included automatic transmission options and 455 engine options to keep the car competitive with similar models.
Chris Nizer, 442 originally meant 400 engine, 4 bbl carb, and dual exhaust, although the 400 CID V8 engine wasn't available until 1965 when the 442 became its own model. 1964, it was an option for the F85 car.
Can't go wrong with either. I've had both 442's and GTO's. Both were extremely fun to drive. Favorite? A 67 442 with non numbers matching 455 with W series heads, cam,, exhaust and 4 speed. I also had a 1970 442 W30 with 4 speed. Wish I still had them. ☹
These were current new cars when I was starting college, and working in a small race shop in Santa Cruz, CA. I'll take the Olds 4-4-2 any day, all day. The TQ numbers means it rules on the street. Stop light to stop light, that was a bad motor scooter. And it was a more comfortable car for dates. My GF at the time drove a full size Olds and that was a sweet ride, and no slouch on the street. The Goat had the flash and it was a desirable car, but you gotta think twice on calling out a 4-4-2 ... Since we were bad boy racers and running a Super Modified on the local dirt tracks, we were more likely to get excited by a '61 409 than any GTO. The Goat was for the guys with styled hair, sharp clothes ... The 4-4-2 was prolly a young family guy with one kid and a job where he got a bit greasy (like maybe a AG service rep or something), but knew how to run, and was a fun guy. A lot of those 4-4-2's were field rep cars that got out on the weekend, sort of the hot businessman's coupe : -) A few years into their life, some of the local 4-4-2's had trailer hitches, and pulled the family jet boat (also Olds powered) to the lake on the weekend ...
I can only relay my 1st hand experience as a 9 year old in 1965. In Shreveport, Louisiana at the gator drag strip in keithville. My dad was a salesman at Holmes Pontiac and dragged a 65 GTO in b class pure stock. Won 13 trophies 1st in class. Actually outran a couple a stick fords in match races. His big nemesis was a 442 olds that beat dad 3/4 of the time. The 442 was sponsored by olds. Sent a fresh motor every month to the local dealership we found out several years later. Conclusion the GTO WAS TRI-POWER. 4:33 gear with headers, 8" slicks and 4 speed. Consistently ran low 13's. 13.10 to 13.30's. Best time was a 12.90. Promise it pushed more than 360 horses to make these runs. However the 442 as mentioned beat him most of the time. Not sure gear & carb set up on the 442. Guy that drove the 442 named Ronnie Ellis. My dad was George Smith. So many finals in class those two. Always close. Can't find any history in print on this classic matchup.
Hands down for me........the GTO. Especially '65 -'67. Quick story - haha , my first car was a '65 Pontiac Lemans ( 326 ci , 2-barrel , 2-speed ) . I was a sophomore in high school - 1978. I had it repainted, added headers, chrome accessories in engine department, and removed all the " Lemans / 326 badges " . Back then, everyone assumed it was a GTO. LOL............ I just nodded yes and cruised on down the road. So many great memories. I've seen several '65 Lemans' converted to "tribute GTO's ".
The definite clash of the titans I've been into the Oldsmobile 442 and the goats the purest of the oldest GM breeds I've had camaros , Cheverly, even a 57 Chevy convertible but I love them old square bodies, Oldsmobile and Pontiac what great machines of early GM muscles
Ill take the 65 Tri Power GTO. The 65 389 Tri Power GTO is my favorite GTO ever made besides a 69 GTO 400 Ram Air IV. My favorite 442 is a 70 W30. But I really like the 68-69 442 body style too
The 442 was 2 seconds quicker to 60 and in the quarter mile. If one wanted the higher performance car, there was no comparison between the sluggish GTO and the truly badass 442. If one wanted a nice interior and a lot of meaningless appearance stuff, there were lots of choices. For straight line performance, it wasn’t even close. The 442 blew the doors off the GTO.
History seldom seen.. From My Dad's Hotrods. In the summer of '62.. my dad's friend bought a Catalina SD421. Which his wife promptly wrecked. Peat and James R. Schonegge.. bought the motor. Then in early spring of 1964.. Pete went and bought a brand new 1964 Lemans couple. 326.. 3 speeds. Then they spent a couple of months shoehorning that 421 SD INTO the LeMans.. it didn't actually fit.... at first. But that gave them a SD 421 (428) Lemans with Cheatered slicks and uncapped Headers. I will never forget being 7 year old or so.. and my Dad taking me on a ride to Friches drive in. Wow! We popped the front wheels. Most awesome thrill a kid could have was a ride in that monster! YEEE-HAAAA!
While I love both of these cars, when I was a kid living in VA, my folks traded an old upright piano for a '64 GTO with the 6 in it. My dad found a 428 in a Bonneville and swapped engines and mated it with a Hurst shifter. Though it became his daily driver when we moved to Michigan and it started rusting out, I still thrilled at the sounds and feel from that car when he'd pop the clutch and have me hanging on for dear life going through gears. Sold it covered in bondo and with half the interior torn out to redo several years later for around $5k
They both have the same seats almost exactly but you called the ones in the Oldsmobile blend and the ones in the Pontiac sporty. That said the Goat is best. Had this contest been between 1968 cars I’m not sure which one I would pick
Thanks for the great episode. Wasn't the 442 one of the few decent handling cars at time with fat front & rear sway bars back when that was rare? I'd happily give up a few tenths for a car that could take the corners at speed without plowing the front end and scraping the door handles. I agree it's hard to beat the '67 Mustang fastback for styling in that era.
During a six muscle car comparo, by Car & Driver Magazine, a formula one driver said that the 1966 Olds 442 "handled better in the rain then the rest of the field when dry"(Ford Fairlane, Mercury Comet, Pontiac GTO, Chevy SS 396 and a buick GS)......Masten Gregory had won the 24 Hours of Lemans......I'd think he knew what he was talking about....
That is very incorrect. They did nit at that time. Srll vehicles. With DIFFERENT size rims and tires. Due to a saftey. Issue. You are out if your mind. PERIOD. Ne v er hapoened. FRED Braintree
Dale is absolutely right I forgot about that first year 330 maybe that high performance model 330 made 400 pounds foot of torque or the automatic wasn't available in 1964 anyway that first year it couldn't have stood for 400 ci.
@Robert LaPointe, when they came out in '64 they were named "442". They never changed the name regardless of what other carbs or transmissions were available later on. And no, it never referred to anything else.
My mother had a 1965 Cutlas Coupe and had a V8 engine of 330 cubic inches and 300 H.P. with 4-barrel Rochester carburetor. The automatic transmission was an ST 300, two-speed.
Oldsmobile changed the definition many times so there is no correct answer - they 330, 400, 455, and 403 engines - 4 bbl and 6 bbl - transmission of 2, 3, and 4 speeds - so it really was just a name.
The dealer in Royal Oak was Royal Pontiac, a little land-locked place with not much room for car inventory but a great service and parts department I understand.
I had a 67 GTO still my favorite car ever had. I also had a 69 Camaro Z28 and I would much rather have the GTO back! The GTO was to muscle cars with the Beatles were to music. It changed the game.
‘65 GTO TRI-POWER all the way. I had a four speed upgraded with a transistorized ignition, electronic fuel pump, manual linkage on the carbs that could not be touched. Paid my way THRU college racing that car 😁
Wehawk InFlight yes you’re absolutely correct! Not sure how that image made it into the final? I’m going upstairs today to talk with the folks in the editing room. LOL, that’s pretty funny!! A 4 door GTO? Maybe they put it in as a gag?...... I hope😂😂😂😂😂
1964 442 option (2 or 4 door) gave you a 330 c.i. engine and was only available with a 4 speed=4speed/4barrel/dual exhaust. 1965 gave you a 400 c.i. engine and was available with a manual or automatic transmission=400c.i./4 barrel/dual exhaust.
@@richardcawalla1148 Yeah, and there were some stout 326 Le Mans out running around. The early ones with the swing axle rears would break axles if hit to hard. But the later Le Mans would accept a 389 out the wrecking yard easy enough. Dressed up with 326 decals, you'd never know what hit you until they ran off and hid : D I even met a 66 Le Mans with a Super Duty 421 once. That was a serious street car. Said 326 on the fender, but it ran WAY to good for that ... In a lot of ways, the Le Mans was the real sleeper : -)
@Robert LaPointe - The 4 bbl. cars were no where's near as quick... the tripower engines had higher compression ratios, better heads, bigger cams, and were slightly under rated on HP... and the GM tripowers had no tuning problems like the Chrysler tripowers did...
@Robert LaPointe - Back in the day I never touched the tripower on my '65 GTO in 150,000 miles... it was simple and reliable as a stone... all mechanical linkage... no leaky vacuum setups like had been used in 1950's... now back then all cars were slow off the showroom floor, you had to advance the ignition timing from the factory 'granny' spec.s... not everyone knew that, so you had some slug cars around... some unknowledgeable prolly blamed the carb.(s)... After the '65 tripower 389 engine puked, I put the tripower on a '68 4 bbl. GTO engine, but it could never make the tripower HOWL like the hot 389 did... the 4 barrel engines were base cammed and all done by about 4600 - 5000 RPMs... the tripower engines were higher compression ratio, 'S'-cammed, bigger heads, and pulled hard to 6,000+ RPMs IF you shimmed up the stock valve springs... otherwise the hydraulic lifters pumped up by about 5500... (the solid lifter Chevy's could rev 6500 - 7000+) Dual quads and tripower came out in 1950's because there weren't any 4 bbl. carb.s big enough... by 1965, they were more of still just a fad that ended by 1967... except for Hemis... We usually beat Hemis on the street, because if they didn't have less than 100 miles on the sparkplugs, they misfired at higher RPMs... Hemis prolly kept dual quads for the 'look' and because the long low dual quad manifold fit under hoods... and because they limited 'street' HP... a high rise single big quad intake would work better, but make the elephant engine too high...
Omg ! you guys are clueless about 442’s. 64 was 4 barrel, 4 speed and duel exhaust & auto transmission was not available . 65 it was a 400 big block, 4 barrel and duel exhaust and automatic was a option. Only thing the GTO had over the 442. Was the view of the OLD’s tail lights.
How could a 1965 442 do zero to 60 in 5.5 seconds but only 15 seconds 1.4 mile? That would mean the car had fallen right on it's face half way up the track. Also, a GTO was 2 seconds slower to 60? no way. Remember the car magazines were saying the GTO was in 5 second range to 60 but all the times were done by hand stop watch and were not accurate. a 1970 Chevelle SS LS6 did zero to 60 in 5.4 seconds so I highly doubt a 442 was as fast in 65.
I don't know where you get your performance numbers for the GTO but I bought a Tiger Gold 65 GTO from ROYAL PONTIAC in Royal Oak Michigan it came with a factory installed aluminum front end. I new it had an aluminum front end because the weight of the vehicle was 3030 all other GTOs weighed 3500 lbs. It also had 360 HP 389 cu. close ratio Hurst four speed trans, posi-traction with a 3.90 rear end. I never took it to the drag strip so I never had any numbers on it.It would burn rubber from zero to 100. I had 55 street drag races with it and the only car that beat me was a Corvette and I raced 442s, Roadrunners, Mustangs, Chevelle---yes I'm sure the 500lbs helped
They only sold 3000 units in '64 because the package wasn't offered until late in the model year. Ford called the original Mustang '64 1/2. Then Olds Called the 442 a '64 3/4.
Pontiac marketing from 1960 through 1972 featured beautiful illustrations by ‘AF/VK’: Art Fitzpatrick and Van Kaufman. ‘Fitz’ painted the cars and Kaufman painted the stunning environments. These were the pinnacle of automotive advertising art, and everyone tried to match them. Pontiac sales increased continually from the time these illustrations started appearing in American magazines.
The 1965 🐐 Goat is my 1st beloved model year as well as the 66 and the 70. I do love all of the model years but for sure my Favorites are the ones that I've been fortunate enough to own myself, The 1970 was the 1st Goat 🐐 that I owned back in 1986. I stumbled across that sweet ride in a nice older womans Garage, (while landscaping her acreage for my buddy's landscaping Company) ( that's a really great story) and I had transformed that GTO into a beautiful street rod. It was Gold when I got my hands on it and then along with the many incredible improvements that I made I changed its color to Orbit Orange (though it wasn't a Judge I loved that color. The 2nd Goat 🐐 I bought in 1997 (another great story) was my 1966 drop top which was stock Barrier Blue White top and parchment white interior which I loved. It had the 389 tri=power 4 speed. That car was the "sister car" to mine, exactly, except for the Engine which was a Monster 455 cu in worked with a big Holley 850 cfm double pumper. My best friend in High school (who's car it was) he and a few others in my town, in High School, began my love affair with the GTO. My other best friend had a fire Engine red hard top sport coupe and this beast was a total drag car with 50 cheater slicks and No hood with a big gold snorkel that read Poncho Power on top of a majorly worked 400 With a tri=power. That bad ass 65 was so impressive it even had a roll bar inside with the black interior. It really had everything a race car should have and it made quite an impression on me at 14 years old and from then on The love affair with 🐐 Goats had begun.... I also owned a few Trans Ams and I ran a Pontiac GMC dealer for years and I was able to drive any car that I wanted as a demo every month, changing cars all the time as they were sold, what a great perk. Ram Airs 6 speeds convertibles and t=top cars I miss those days.
The 442 in 65 had anything BUT a cheap interior. In 1966 the 442 was offered as an option in 3 trim levels being F85 ,F85 Deluxe, and Cutlass Supreme trim levels. In 67 the 442 was offered in the Cutlass Supreme level only.Years later it varied . The parchment GTO interior that you showed was not a 65 it was a 67 . Compare it to a 66 Supreme trim level or a 67 442 and you may see things differently. Both were great cars but to me Olds wasn’t as popular and in any category was a notch above a Pontiac. You also failed to mention the 66 tri power 442 and or ram air offered throughout some of the years.
Most of the 1964 442s were two doors, only a handful were 4 doors. Not an issue. In fact in 1964 you could order the $285 442 option, which included better suspension, mandatory 4 speed and a hotter version of the 330 cid engine on ANY F85 or Cutlass except station wagon. In 1965 they added a 400 cid engine to the package and it also had an automatic transmission option, the Buick Super Turbine 300 (Olds still used the Jetaway nomenclature). But it was now only available on 2 door sedans, 2 door hardtops and convertibles.
In '64 it was the B09 option it was a police car ... You gut the nameplate wrong it always was 4 barrel carburetor. 4 speed and 2 exhaust becouse in '64 the 442 had a 330 c.im motor and it was a 4 door Sadan with the 442 badge on it ...it was a police interceptor...
Which would I pick? I'm a bit biased, so it naturally would be the Goat. If Olds put some trips on their 65 442, with a 4 speed it would be fun too. But to be realistic, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, (power wise), Olds had the worst flowing cylinder heads of that time, with Pontiac barely a notch above. So compared to the competition, at the track, they both were to tough to win with. Unless you had a great tuner, and ran in the lower classes, then things would be different. But on the street, they were fun cars to drive. Thanks for the review.
The 442 had tri power! A higher lift cam and forged internals with a m21 4 speed and posi rearend!! Oh and the 442 would handle better had ac with power everything and beat the dog crap out of that over priced tempest
@@ericgrueser7532 Trips on a 442 only happened in 66. This video is comparing 65s. And it appears your knowledge about the the two engines, and drag strip times, of those two vehicles in 1965 have been totally mislead.
Olds 442 was a much more refined muscle car. More for the gentlemen who had grown out of the childish need for the crude and brash of the GTO.. The 442 was faster, rode better, and was a much better daily driver than the GTO.. I agree, if Oldsmobile had had a better ad team, the sales would have left the GTO in the dust.
I had a 65 442 4-speed Convertible. Yellow with Black interior and ragtop and posi rear end. Fast and good looking. Every bit the equal of the GTO in performance.. Mt preference still.
The Pontiac interior and exterior designers apparently had a lot more freedom to develop the Tempest/GTO , whereas it looks like the Oldsmobile crew were limited in what they could do to design more sporty styling for the Cutlass/F-85, especially the interior. The Olds styling is just kinda boring while the Pontiac was "cooler". But the real difference to determine which you would prefer would be to test drive each one. From my personal history and what is said on Oldsmobile info sites, in 64 "442" did mean 4 barrel, 4-speed, dual exhaust, but with the 65 the "442" meant 400 cu in, 4 barrel, dual exhaust. Thanks for the video.
The gto was just a boneville. The interior was the exact same. Gto didnt become its own nameplate until 1966. Up to that point it was just a performance package with no unique styling qeues. Funny thing is that a pontiac was a poor mans car and an olds was considered a luxury model. I do agree though. The gto was shinier
Back then, when you were driving a car, the interior didn't matter. You were watching the road. But how would you know, you were playing in a sandbox. [Wink.] JMO.
@@789pokey I saw a bone stock L78 396/375 on an engine dyno once and it made 425 horsepower at 6000 rpm. And yes it was actually rated at 425 horsepower in the Corvette and the full size cars in 65. I'm pretty sure all Pontiac -Olds -Buick V8 engines had hydraulic lifters other than the Pontiac 421 Super Duty. But the Chevy L78 396, L72 427, LS6 454, and a few different versions of the 409 all had solid lifters I believe. So did the LT1 350 in 1970 and I think the 302 did too in the 67-69 Z28 but I could be wrong on that though. I'm not sure but the L79 327 might've had solid lifters too. I think I remember hearing that somewhere
Factory didn't put 425 in... although an easy direct boltin... and automatic was a crap 2 speed... unless got the big car 3 speed automatic for the 425...
I had 2 and every Friday will go to woodward and race And every Saturday I'd spend all day rebuilding parts I broke. But every Saturday night we were racing again.🤗😎
Interesting all your information on these two classic cars in the field of muscle cars. But more interesting would have been to make them compete in several 1/4 mile races.
I’m very disappointed in these guys I thought they were experts, the fact 442 was a 4 bel 330 ci 4 speed with dual exhaust . That little 330 put out 330 hp and was a great engine . The 400 ci was years away in 65
The pre 69 400 Olds was a small block Olds bored from the Olds 370. The later 69 BB400 shared 425/455 Block. The SB400 Olds would rev lively but the later 403 would turn the bearings at +rpm because of the Windowed mains 400&403 were good with 🤑 Mondello Main Girdle.🤐
But the 442 version of the 330 was a police special. Different cam valve train etc. The 330 engine came in at least 3 states of tune. And yes, you could order the 442 package (B09 police package) on any F85 or Cutlass except station wagon in 1964.
Your shot of the white interior is NOT a 65. The 65 did not have wood on the consol or the dash. Also in 65 the ignition switch was top left on the dash.
How about the Buick’s? Not even mentioned here but should in 65 there was the Rivera gs with a 425 nailhead engine with dual quads yes in a Buick although the car was very heavy about 4400 Lb I believe it would run 0-60 in 6.9 sec and quarter in the low 15,s to high 14’s in super tune and later in 1970 Buick unleashed the 455 stage 1 hemi killer one of the fastest cars made mid 12’s with just slicks and open headers nothing else bolt on stage 2 mods and you were in the low 11,s maybye high 10’s olds didn’t have anything that would touch it although I love all olds and pontiacs and especially Buick’s and of course the ultimate street cars back then were the mopars!
I like them both! Pontiac and Oldsmobile! They are my favorites, Pontiac is first though! To me the 64 GTO convertible is the ultimate , followed by the 70 GTO Judge convertible then the 70/72 442 and Cutlass, Not to say that I don't like any other of the GTO'S, 442'S , Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles , Just that the above are my favorites! in that order!
I love all these 1964-1972 A bodied cars. But I have different favorite years between the 4 divisions. Going by LOOKS only, my favorite 442 years are 1966 and 1967. For the GTO I prefer the 1965 1968 and 1969. For the Chevelle I like both the 1967 and the 1970-72. For the GranSport, I like both the 1965 and the 1966 best.
Every time I come to watch one of your videos you gets at least one thing wrong. Do you guys speak from experience or just from a quick google search for your information?
You are wrong my friend, that is a 1965 GTO interior, I know because my brother bought one in '65 and may parents bought a LeMans which had the same basic interior.
John Cifra as an owner of a 65, having grown up around a 66, I can attest that that picture was in fact wrong. 65 had diagonal seat pattern and the wood grain was only around the gauges like the 64 dash
I found a hard to find at dealers in 1965 ....albertson olds in Culver City had gun metal grey model.......Not 1 Goat beat it in socal......the only threat was the Buick Sky Hawk SS....we changed the rear end ratio to 3.91.....the et,s were in most cases were a half second faster but 12 miles faster. The deliverd cost was just under $ 3200.........My brothernsold it a year later low mileage for $2900
Back in 65 my aunt was an RN, and hitting her mid fifties she wanted something "sporty", I suppose to keep her in the flow with her younger RN colleagues. So she went out and bought the 442, which according to my dad, was very much a performamce car, but being eleven years old at the time, I knew nothing of how it was equipped. But I do remember my aunt was embarrassed to drive it because she peeled out at every traffic signal. She sold it after only a couple of months :-)
I think MOST people prefer the 1967 GTO. I prefer the 1965 myself. But of all of them I like the 1965 and 1966 Buick GranSport (not as much the 1967 for some reason).
GTO was not even close to as quick as the 442. That is a documented fact. 2 seconds slower to 60. GTO stood for Got Taken Out in every drag race with a 442.
The 64 442 did in fact stand for 4 speed, 4 barrel and dual exhaust. You couldn't get it with an automatic. The only motor was a 330. In 65 the nomenclature changed to 400, 4 barrel and dual exhaust due to the new 400 engine. In 65 on an automatic was available.
I thought the 2 was for positraction. (2-wheel drive to rear tires.)
Thank you for pointing that out and id like to say that 330 put the power out
You're right. 400 cubes 4 barrel n dual exhaust. Mine was Target Red and I I raced it successfully for 3 years. $31,50. I was running mid to high 12 second quarter mile passes. GTO never even got close to me. The Dodge RT was the ones to take serious. 65 Goat was the nicest year they ever built. Beautiful car.
I special ordered the first 1965 442 to come to El Paso, delivered in late 1964. I raced a 1964 GTO 4 speed. I had the 2 speed auto. I took him off the line but he eventually pulled me when he hit about 3rd gear. Great fun. I also special ordered a 1968 442 and a 1970 with the Ram Air hood, The 70 was awesome.
Awesome! My first car was a black 65 442 with black American Torque Thrust mag wheels. My uncle worked for GM. He ordered his in mid-65 and got the 66 model's cam in the 400, which gave it 25 more HP. It was so beautiful. Also had a 71 W30 with the M22 that was pumped 30-over. It was an asphalt-eating monster. Still wish I had the 65, though.
One thing for sure, no matter which one you choose you couldn't go wrong. They're both EPIC muscle cars that jump started the muscle car performance era. Take care my friend, Semper Fi!👍
That is a kool comment. My nick name is to kool. Bith are phein branominal. Fred braintree. He is excactlly correcy an origiall was a 442. 4 speed dual exhaust. End of story. The be chasung gtos and mopars. My un m e had a 68 or 69. Iwas 8 years old. A cutlass somthing 442. Blue with a black top. Oh my fucking god this guys talking 350 or. 360. Hp. Real horse. Oh y fuckin GOD. Po. Tiac. WOW. Dont firget thebiick. Pontiacs. Gtos. Therere ithed pontiacs. Bonneville. A n d others. One you m ay NEVER HAVE HEARD IF MIRADA. FULL PIWER SKIRTS. BIGGER AND BADDER. THAN A PONTIAC 4 4 + 2. 8 LUG. THE MIRADA WAS VERY FUCKIN LIMITED EDITION. ONMY AVAILABME FIR I OR 2 YEARS. SICK. BIGGEST ENGINE. SKIRTS. AND TRI P O WER. THAT TRI POWER. IS ONE OF TBEE KOOLEST. OOTIINS EVER FUCKIN. PRODUCED. THEN FOLLOWED BY MOPAR. DODGE CHRYS L ER. HEMI. PONTIAC. WAS 1ST. P PERIOD AND ON C O WELL INDUCTION. FIRCING THE AIR. COMING OVER THE HOOD. AND STUFFING IT STRAIG B T TO THE ENGINE. IMLROVING COOLING AND OREFORMA B.BCE. LER IA COICHA OR THE OTBER KOOL.FUCKIN BASTARD. JHON DELORIAN. ONE OF TBE BEST ENGINEERS IN THE I DUSTRY TO TGIS DAY. FRED NOBLE BRAINTREE BOSTON. WHERE WIULD WE BE WUTH OHT HIM EVENTUALLY WENT TO FORD. WOW. HIM AND CAROL. MUST HAVE B EEN LAUGBING THERE ASSES OFF DESIGHINING THE FUCKIN SHELBY. ENOUGH SEID. SEID FRED. NOBKE FENCE. BRAINTREE BISTIN4 MASSACHUSSETS. NIGHTFENCER GATEKEEPER
I believe it was:
1964: 4 speed, 4bbl, 2 exh (had 330ci)
1965: 400(ci), 4 bbl, 2exh
Spot on
Your correct sir!!!
Was going to post that lol
My brother had two 1965 GTO's, the first he bought new in '65, gold color, hardtop, 389, 4-speed. It was sweet. Then he returned from Vietnam, got married, had kid's, goodbye GTO. Then many year's later, he bought another '65, red convertible, 389, 4- speed. Completely went thru it, body off restoration. Would drive it on nice day's. Keep it a couple of year's, then sold it to a collector from Denmark I believe. Now he wished he had another one.
It was originally called ; 4 barrel 4 speed dual exhaust for 442. As in 64 it had a 330 engine.
d35martin1, correct.
Also in 64 the only transmission available in a 442 was a 4 speed manual and they all had the 310 horse 330 engine. 4 barrel-4 speed-dual exhaust was the original meaning of 4-4-2
1964: 4spd, 4bbl, dual exhaust. 1965: 400cid, 4 bbl, dual exhaust. 1966: 400cid, 4spd, dual exhaust. After that it was simply a model designation. I was there, live and in person. My bil had a ‘65 and my wife had a ‘65 Cutlass hdtp with a 330cid engine like the ‘64 442 but with 5 hp more. 310 vs 315.
These guys always get the '442' backwards... at least he did say "four forty-two"...
@Robert LaPointe I agree with the above comments about the model designation for 4 barrel, 4 speed, dual exhaust. The original motor was a 330 then a 400 in 1965 and automatics were available. I had a special ordered 442 in 1967. That year there were two engine options, the regular 400 and the 400 with air induction. I wanted A/C and as such I had to order the regular car. I later modified it with the OEM air induction kit, consisting of the air cleaner box, tubes, and battery cable for mounting it in the trunk. The cams were different and I had to get the air induction cam separately from the parts dept. I know the three two barrel option was available in 1966, but I don't think it was available in 67, at least not in May or June when I ordered the car. It had a Rochester quadrajet. The three 2's could have been available earlier and discontinued or I just missed it, which is hard to believe as I was only interested in performance at that time.
When the 4-4-2 appeared in '64, they were euipped with the 330. So, there goes the 400 cube myth.
If both cars didn't tear up those 2-speed Jetaways, they must have been pretty good transmissions. The THD-400 was, of course, available for 1966
That's correct...in 64 the 442 stood for 4 barrel, 4 speed..dual exhaust... he is a bit off
I hear the jetaway was a horrid transmission.
You don't see the 442 coming, it's definately more austere and plain than the GTO, but it is a sleeper and winner.
4 speed, 4 barrel, dual exhaust was the original meaning behind 4-4-2. They eventually included automatic transmission options and 455 engine options to keep the car competitive with similar models.
442 for me
Chris Nizer, 442 originally meant 400 engine, 4 bbl carb, and dual exhaust, although the 400 CID V8 engine wasn't available until 1965 when the 442 became its own model. 1964, it was an option for the F85 car.
@@sergeantmasson3669 - You got it backwards order... as does the video...
@@BuzzLOLOL NOT my concern that you're unable to comprehend truth/facts.
Can't go wrong with either. I've had both 442's and GTO's. Both were extremely fun to drive. Favorite? A 67 442 with non numbers matching 455 with W series heads, cam,, exhaust and 4 speed. I also had a 1970 442 W30 with 4 speed. Wish I still had them. ☹
I bought a 1965 olds 442 in 1976 for $300. With a dealer installed six pack which was an option and 65 and I still have it in my garage.
Wow.
I want it. Mine got stolen and totaled in a high speed wreck. Dam.
I owned a 66 GTO 389, 4 bbl, 4 spd, 3.55 gears, ran pure stock & turned 14.2 all day long.
That's why they never bothered my high 12s bracket 65 red 442.
These were current new cars when I was starting college, and working in a small race shop in Santa Cruz, CA. I'll take the Olds 4-4-2 any day, all day. The TQ numbers means it rules on the street. Stop light to stop light, that was a bad motor scooter.
And it was a more comfortable car for dates. My GF at the time drove a full size Olds and that was a sweet ride, and no slouch on the street.
The Goat had the flash and it was a desirable car, but you gotta think twice on calling out a 4-4-2 ... Since we were bad boy racers and running a Super Modified on the local dirt tracks, we were more likely to get excited by a '61 409 than any GTO.
The Goat was for the guys with styled hair, sharp clothes ... The 4-4-2 was prolly a young family guy with one kid and a job where he got a bit greasy (like maybe a AG service rep or something), but knew how to run, and was a fun guy. A lot of those 4-4-2's were field rep cars that got out on the weekend, sort of the hot businessman's coupe : -)
A few years into their life, some of the local 4-4-2's had trailer hitches, and pulled the family jet boat (also Olds powered) to the lake on the weekend ...
I can only relay my 1st hand experience as a 9 year old in 1965. In Shreveport, Louisiana at the gator drag strip in keithville. My dad was a salesman at Holmes Pontiac and dragged a 65 GTO in b class pure stock. Won 13 trophies 1st in class. Actually outran a couple a stick fords in match races. His big nemesis was a 442 olds that beat dad 3/4 of the time. The 442 was sponsored by olds. Sent a fresh motor every month to the local dealership we found out several years later. Conclusion the GTO WAS TRI-POWER. 4:33 gear with headers, 8" slicks and 4 speed. Consistently ran low 13's. 13.10 to 13.30's. Best time was a 12.90. Promise it pushed more than 360 horses to make these runs. However the 442 as mentioned beat him most of the time. Not sure gear & carb set up on the 442. Guy that drove the 442 named Ronnie Ellis. My dad was George Smith. So many finals in class those two. Always close. Can't find any history in print on this classic matchup.
Hands down for me........the GTO. Especially '65 -'67. Quick story - haha , my first car was a '65 Pontiac Lemans ( 326 ci , 2-barrel , 2-speed ) . I was a sophomore in high school - 1978. I had it repainted, added headers, chrome accessories in engine department, and removed all the " Lemans / 326 badges " . Back then, everyone assumed it was a GTO. LOL............ I just nodded yes and cruised on down the road. So many great memories. I've seen several '65 Lemans' converted to "tribute GTO's ".
Had a 65 442 then a 69 GTO, both beautiful cars, wish I had kept them
The definite clash of the titans I've been into the Oldsmobile 442 and the goats the purest of the oldest GM breeds I've had camaros , Cheverly, even a 57 Chevy convertible but I love them old square bodies, Oldsmobile and Pontiac what great machines of early GM muscles
Ill take the 65 Tri Power GTO. The 65 389 Tri Power GTO is my favorite GTO ever made besides a 69 GTO 400 Ram Air IV. My favorite 442 is a 70 W30. But I really like the 68-69 442 body style too
The Hurst Olds 442 was bad.
The 442 was 2 seconds quicker to 60 and in the quarter mile. If one wanted the higher performance car, there was no comparison between the sluggish GTO and the truly badass 442. If one wanted a nice interior and a lot of meaningless appearance stuff, there were lots of choices. For straight line performance, it wasn’t even close. The 442 blew the doors off the GTO.
The original 442 had a 330 cubic inch high compression/high output motor. It was upgraded to 400 cubic inch I believe in 66'
65
History seldom seen.. From My Dad's Hotrods. In the summer of '62.. my dad's friend bought a Catalina SD421. Which his wife promptly wrecked. Peat and James R. Schonegge.. bought the motor. Then in early spring of 1964.. Pete went and bought a brand new 1964 Lemans couple. 326.. 3 speeds. Then they spent a couple of months shoehorning that 421 SD INTO the LeMans.. it didn't actually fit.... at first. But that gave them a SD 421 (428) Lemans with Cheatered slicks and uncapped Headers. I will never forget being 7 year old or so.. and my Dad taking me on a ride to Friches drive in. Wow! We popped the front wheels. Most awesome thrill a kid could have was a ride in that monster! YEEE-HAAAA!
65 GTO of course although the 442 Olds is awsome.
While I love both of these cars, when I was a kid living in VA, my folks traded an old upright piano for a '64 GTO with the 6 in it. My dad found a 428 in a Bonneville and swapped engines and mated it with a Hurst shifter. Though it became his daily driver when we moved to Michigan and it started rusting out, I still thrilled at the sounds and feel from that car when he'd pop the clutch and have me hanging on for dear life going through gears. Sold it covered in bondo and with half the interior torn out to redo several years later for around $5k
never was a 6 cyl goat
@@anthonycarter5381 I think he’s referring to Tri Power, when he says 6
My 1965 Goat was Caprice Gold, Black Vinyl Top with Black Interior . The best car that I ever had.
Totally disagree about the interior of the 442. It was nice.
The Starfire was Olds' nicest model. It even had leather seats.
They both have the same seats almost exactly but you called the ones in the Oldsmobile blend and the ones in the Pontiac sporty. That said the Goat is best. Had this contest been between 1968 cars I’m not sure which one I would pick
GOAT------ Greatest---Of---All--Time :)
Have a real 64 GTO had it in storage for 30 years getting it back on the road it has a 421 in it
Gas,, Tires,, Oil!!!
Get The Other car.
G.T.O. = Go To Olds.
@@davidmottweiler7597 :)...wish we could...my first "New" car was a Cutlass
the very first ones with the 330 were "four barrel carb, four speed trans and dual exhaust"
Yes, only out for last 6 months,, tried to play catch up with GTO, was called 442 police interceptor,, that was on speedometer
i agree with you ..for the first year of its existence the 442 did not stand for 400 cubic inches,, so the commentator is wrong
Thanks for the great episode. Wasn't the 442 one of the few decent handling cars at time with fat front & rear sway bars back when that was rare? I'd happily give up a few tenths for a car that could take the corners at speed without plowing the front end and scraping the door handles.
I agree it's hard to beat the '67 Mustang fastback for styling in that era.
During a six muscle car comparo, by Car & Driver Magazine, a formula one driver said that the 1966 Olds 442 "handled better in the rain then the rest of the field when dry"(Ford Fairlane, Mercury Comet, Pontiac GTO, Chevy SS 396 and a buick GS)......Masten Gregory had won the 24 Hours of Lemans......I'd think he knew what he was talking about....
That is very incorrect. They did nit at that time. Srll vehicles. With DIFFERENT size rims and tires. Due to a saftey. Issue. You are out if your mind. PERIOD. Ne v er hapoened. FRED Braintree
@@frednoble1833 No idea what you just tried to say.
My dad put a 70 W30 and turbo 400 and 12 bolt rear in a 65 442...great bracket car at OCIR...
Dale is absolutely right I forgot about that first year 330 maybe that high performance model 330 made 400 pounds foot of torque or the automatic wasn't available in 1964 anyway that first year it couldn't have stood for 400 ci.
In '64 it was 4 speed and 4 bbl... until they got the 400 engine in '65... (Video gets it backwards)...
I really dig the mid-60's GM intermediate cars. In other words, I'll take one of each!
Wrong, the '64 had a 330 cid. So original it was 4bbl, 4speed, dual exhaust.
For me, the GTO. Especially if it came from a dealer in Royal Oak, MI.
@Robert LaPointe, when they came out in '64 they were named "442". They never changed the name regardless of what other carbs or transmissions were available later on.
And no, it never referred to anything else.
My mother had a 1965 Cutlas Coupe and had a V8 engine of 330 cubic inches and 300 H.P. with 4-barrel Rochester carburetor. The automatic transmission was an ST 300, two-speed.
Oldsmobile changed the definition many times so there is no correct answer - they 330, 400, 455, and 403 engines - 4 bbl and 6 bbl - transmission of 2, 3, and 4 speeds - so it really was just a name.
The dealer in Royal Oak was Royal Pontiac, a little land-locked place with not much room for car inventory but a great service and parts department I understand.
I had a 67 GTO still my favorite car ever had. I also had a 69 Camaro Z28 and I would much rather have the GTO back! The GTO was to muscle cars with the Beatles were to music. It changed the game.
Me too! I totally agree.
great car I had one very fast for its time and I loved the interior.
GTO became its own model in 1965. 1964, the GTO package was an option for the Pontiac Lemans.
For me the 442 is king
‘65 GTO TRI-POWER all the way. I had a four speed upgraded with a transistorized ignition, electronic fuel pump, manual linkage on the carbs that could not be touched. Paid my way THRU college racing that car 😁
That four door on the strip @ 7:31 wasn't a GTO unless Pontiac did something very strange.
Wehawk InFlight yes you’re absolutely correct! Not sure how that image made it into the final? I’m going upstairs today to talk with the folks in the editing room. LOL, that’s pretty funny!! A 4 door GTO? Maybe they put it in as a gag?...... I hope😂😂😂😂😂
He'd be legit if it was a 4-4-2.
Oldsmobile archives indicate that approximately ten four door sedans were built with the BO9 option in 64'.
GTO is a classic design, and my favorite GTO year.
The Olds at 3:55 - White Convertible - Jeez that is Beautiful !
442. Came out in 1964 , the engine was a 330 cu.in . 310 hp 4brl. 4 spd dual exhaust.. 400 cu. In came out in 1965
My two main favorite cars of all time and two street masters
1964 442 option (2 or 4 door) gave you a 330 c.i. engine and was only available with a 4 speed=4speed/4barrel/dual exhaust. 1965 gave you a 400 c.i. engine and was available with a manual or automatic transmission=400c.i./4 barrel/dual exhaust.
What’s with the car on the drag strip ? Pontiac never built a 4 door GTO . It must be a tarted up LeMans !
All GTO's are tarted up Le Mans. It's where they came from ...
@@brocluno01 Yeah . You have a point , but there was never a four door GTO . Not till 1966 did it become it’s own model .
@@richardcawalla1148 Yeah, and there were some stout 326 Le Mans out running around. The early ones with the swing axle rears would break axles if hit to hard. But the later Le Mans would accept a 389 out the wrecking yard easy enough. Dressed up with 326 decals, you'd never know what hit you until they ran off and hid : D
I even met a 66 Le Mans with a Super Duty 421 once. That was a serious street car. Said 326 on the fender, but it ran WAY to good for that ... In a lot of ways, the Le Mans was the real sleeper : -)
5.5 Oldsmobile 7+ Pontiac quarter mile in the battle of the 1965s
Both were cool cars back in the day the GTO would beat out the Olds and the GTO looks better I like the GTO
Both looked good... they were even once the Olds also got tripower... '65 goat got the high rise tripower intake shown... '64 and earlier was flat...
i own two 1965 olds 442 and i eat gtos all day long i run a 10.41 quarter .. so stick your gto up your nose ...
@Robert LaPointe - The 4 bbl. cars were no where's near as quick... the tripower engines had higher compression ratios, better heads, bigger cams, and were slightly under rated on HP... and the GM tripowers had no tuning problems like the Chrysler tripowers did...
@Robert LaPointe - Back in the day I never touched the tripower on my '65 GTO in 150,000 miles... it was simple and reliable as a stone... all mechanical linkage... no leaky vacuum setups like had been used in 1950's... now back then all cars were slow off the showroom floor, you had to advance the ignition timing from the factory 'granny' spec.s... not everyone knew that, so you had some slug cars around... some unknowledgeable prolly blamed the carb.(s)... After the '65 tripower 389 engine puked, I put the tripower on a '68 4 bbl. GTO engine, but it could never make the tripower HOWL like the hot 389 did... the 4 barrel engines were base cammed and all done by about 4600 - 5000 RPMs... the tripower engines were higher compression ratio, 'S'-cammed, bigger heads, and pulled hard to 6,000+ RPMs IF you shimmed up the stock valve springs... otherwise the hydraulic lifters pumped up by about 5500... (the solid lifter Chevy's could rev 6500 - 7000+)
Dual quads and tripower came out in 1950's because there weren't any 4 bbl. carb.s big enough... by 1965, they were more of still just a fad that ended by 1967... except for Hemis... We usually beat Hemis on the street, because if they didn't have less than 100 miles on the sparkplugs, they misfired at higher RPMs... Hemis prolly kept dual quads for the 'look' and because the long low dual quad manifold fit under hoods... and because they limited 'street' HP... a high rise single big quad intake would work better, but make the elephant engine too high...
@Robert LaPointe, GM corporate banned multiple carbs after '66 for all makes except Chevy.
I'm glad everybody wants the Olds...I would snap that GTO up so fast.
Omg ! you guys are clueless about 442’s. 64 was 4 barrel, 4 speed and duel exhaust & auto transmission was not available . 65 it was a 400 big block, 4 barrel and duel exhaust and automatic was a option. Only thing the GTO had over the 442. Was the view of the OLD’s tail lights.
Would like to have seen the buick skylark included in this overview
How could a 1965 442 do zero to 60 in 5.5 seconds but only 15 seconds 1.4 mile? That would mean the car had fallen right on it's face half way up the track. Also, a GTO was 2 seconds slower to 60? no way. Remember the car magazines were saying the GTO was in 5 second range to 60 but all the times were done by hand stop watch and were not accurate. a 1970 Chevelle SS LS6 did zero to 60 in 5.4 seconds so I highly doubt a 442 was as fast in 65.
It was and consistently wiped the GTO on the drag strip
I don't know where you get your performance numbers for the GTO but I bought a Tiger Gold 65 GTO from ROYAL PONTIAC in Royal Oak Michigan it came with a factory installed aluminum front end. I new it had an aluminum front end because the weight of the vehicle was 3030 all other GTOs weighed 3500 lbs. It also had 360 HP 389 cu. close ratio Hurst four speed trans, posi-traction with a 3.90 rear end. I never took it to the drag strip so I never had any numbers on it.It would burn rubber from zero to 100. I had 55 street drag races with it and the only car that beat me was a Corvette and I raced 442s, Roadrunners, Mustangs, Chevelle---yes I'm sure the 500lbs helped
They only sold 3000 units in '64 because the package wasn't offered until late in the model year. Ford called the original Mustang '64 1/2. Then Olds Called the 442 a '64 3/4.
Pontiac marketing from 1960 through 1972 featured beautiful illustrations by ‘AF/VK’: Art Fitzpatrick and Van Kaufman. ‘Fitz’ painted the cars and Kaufman painted the stunning environments. These were the pinnacle of automotive advertising art, and everyone tried to match them. Pontiac sales increased continually from the time these illustrations started appearing in American magazines.
The 1965 🐐 Goat is my 1st beloved model year as well as the 66 and the 70.
I do love all of the model years but for sure my Favorites are the ones that I've been fortunate enough to own myself,
The 1970 was the 1st Goat 🐐 that I owned back in 1986. I stumbled across that sweet ride in a nice older womans
Garage, (while landscaping her acreage for my buddy's landscaping Company) ( that's a really great story) and I had transformed that GTO into a beautiful street rod. It was Gold when I got my hands on it and then along with the many incredible improvements that I made I changed its color to Orbit Orange (though it wasn't a Judge I loved that color. The 2nd Goat 🐐 I bought in 1997 (another great story) was my 1966 drop top which was stock Barrier Blue
White top and parchment white interior which I loved. It had the 389 tri=power 4 speed. That car was the "sister car"
to mine, exactly, except for the Engine which was a Monster 455 cu in worked with a big Holley 850 cfm double pumper. My best friend in High school (who's car it was) he and a few others in my town, in High School, began my love affair with the GTO. My other best friend had a fire Engine red hard top sport coupe and this beast was a total drag car with 50 cheater slicks and No hood with a big gold snorkel that read Poncho
Power on top of a majorly worked 400
With a tri=power. That bad ass 65 was so impressive it even had a roll bar inside with the black interior. It really had everything a race car should have and it made quite an impression on me at 14 years old and from then on The love affair with 🐐 Goats had begun....
I also owned a few Trans Ams and I ran a Pontiac GMC dealer for years and I was able to drive any car that I wanted as a demo every month, changing cars all the time as they were sold, what a great perk. Ram Airs 6 speeds convertibles and t=top cars I miss those days.
The 442 in 65 had anything BUT a cheap interior. In 1966 the 442 was offered as an option in 3 trim levels being F85 ,F85 Deluxe, and Cutlass Supreme trim levels. In 67 the 442 was offered in the Cutlass Supreme level only.Years later it varied . The parchment GTO interior that you showed was not a 65 it was a 67 . Compare it to a 66 Supreme trim level or a 67 442 and you may see things differently. Both were great cars but to me Olds wasn’t as popular and in any category was a notch above a Pontiac. You also failed to mention the 66 tri power 442 and or ram air offered throughout some of the years.
Most of the 1964 442s were two doors, only a handful were 4 doors. Not an issue. In fact in 1964 you could order the $285 442 option, which included better suspension, mandatory 4 speed and a hotter version of the 330 cid engine on ANY F85 or Cutlass except station wagon. In 1965 they added a 400 cid engine to the package and it also had an automatic transmission option, the Buick Super Turbine 300 (Olds still used the Jetaway nomenclature). But it was now only available on 2 door sedans, 2 door hardtops and convertibles.
Both great cars and would be more that happy to own either but I’m a diehard Pontiac fan so I’d have to pick the GTO
In '64 it was the B09 option it was a police car ...
You gut the nameplate wrong it always was 4 barrel carburetor. 4 speed and 2 exhaust becouse in '64 the 442 had a 330 c.im motor and it was a 4 door Sadan with the 442 badge on it ...it was a police interceptor...
Which would I pick? I'm a bit biased, so it naturally would be the Goat. If Olds put some trips on their 65 442, with a 4 speed it would be fun too. But to be realistic, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, (power wise), Olds had the worst flowing cylinder heads of that time, with Pontiac barely a notch above. So compared to the competition, at the track, they both were to tough to win with. Unless you had a great tuner, and ran in the lower classes, then things would be different. But on the street, they were fun cars to drive. Thanks for the review.
The 442 had tri power! A higher lift cam and forged internals with a m21 4 speed and posi rearend!! Oh and the 442 would handle better had ac with power everything and beat the dog crap out of that over priced tempest
@@ericgrueser7532 Trips on a 442 only happened in 66. This video is comparing 65s. And it appears your knowledge about the the two engines, and drag strip times, of those two vehicles in 1965 have been totally mislead.
Olds 442 was a much more refined muscle car. More for the gentlemen who had grown out of the childish need for the crude and brash of the GTO.. The 442 was faster, rode better, and was a much better daily driver than the GTO.. I agree, if Oldsmobile had had a better ad team, the sales would have left the GTO in the dust.
I had a 65 442 4-speed Convertible. Yellow with Black interior and ragtop and posi rear end. Fast and good looking. Every bit the equal of the GTO in performance.. Mt preference still.
Hi Bruce, thanks for commenting and for watching!
The Pontiac interior and exterior designers apparently had a lot more freedom to develop the Tempest/GTO , whereas it looks like the Oldsmobile crew were limited in what they could do to design more sporty styling for the Cutlass/F-85, especially the interior. The Olds styling is just kinda boring while the Pontiac was "cooler". But the real difference to determine which you would prefer would be to test drive each one. From my personal history and what is said on Oldsmobile info sites, in 64 "442" did mean 4 barrel, 4-speed, dual exhaust, but with the 65 the "442" meant 400 cu in, 4 barrel, dual exhaust. Thanks for the video.
That would of been John DeLorean in charge of that car build.
The gto was just a boneville. The interior was the exact same. Gto didnt become its own nameplate until 1966. Up to that point it was just a performance package with no unique styling qeues. Funny thing is that a pontiac was a poor mans car and an olds was considered a luxury model. I do agree though. The gto was shinier
The GTO all the way..
However, I prefer the '67 442, as it has the signal marker lights between the 2 headlights...excellent feature!
Back then, when you were driving a car, the interior didn't matter. You were watching the road. But how would you know, you were playing in a sandbox. [Wink.] JMO.
Enjoyed the video. Perhaps show the interior of a 65 GOAT instead of the 66/67 that you all did show at 8:00
The best performer of the 1965 GM intermediates is the Chevy Malibu SS 396 Z16. But they are ultra rare...only 200 produced
They were the only solid lifter engine of all the GM intermediates. And rated 425hp in the 'Vette.
@@789pokey I saw a bone stock L78 396/375 on an engine dyno once and it made 425 horsepower at 6000 rpm. And yes it was actually rated at 425 horsepower in the Corvette and the full size cars in 65. I'm pretty sure all Pontiac -Olds -Buick V8 engines had hydraulic lifters other than the Pontiac 421 Super Duty. But the Chevy L78 396, L72 427, LS6 454, and a few different versions of the 409 all had solid lifters I believe. So did the LT1 350 in 1970 and I think the 302 did too in the 67-69 Z28 but I could be wrong on that though. I'm not sure but the L79 327 might've had solid lifters too. I think I remember hearing that somewhere
My brother had a 65 442 convertible, factory 425, automatic, car was very fast, good show !
Factory didn't put 425 in... although an easy direct boltin... and automatic was a crap 2 speed... unless got the big car 3 speed automatic for the 425...
I have 65 Olds 442 conv, took 1st place at Carl Casper 55 year show in 2017,, will eat goats!!!
I had 2 and every Friday will go to woodward and race
And every Saturday I'd spend all day rebuilding parts I broke. But every Saturday night we were racing again.🤗😎
Interesting all your information on these two classic cars in the field of muscle cars.
But more interesting would have been to make them compete in several 1/4 mile races.
I like all 4 Buick Chevy Olds Pontiac it’s all about what you like
Oldsmobile for this kid
The name of the song is Little GTO. I think it was by Jan and Dean but I’m not positive.
The two greatest street masters
All about that GTO!
I’m very disappointed in these guys I thought they were experts, the fact 442 was a 4 bel 330 ci 4 speed with dual exhaust . That little 330 put out 330 hp and was a great engine . The 400 ci was years away in 65
The pre 69 400 Olds was a small block Olds bored from the Olds 370. The later 69 BB400 shared 425/455 Block. The SB400 Olds would rev lively but the later 403 would turn the bearings at +rpm because of the Windowed mains 400&403 were good with 🤑 Mondello Main Girdle.🤐
They only offered 330c.i. 310h
P. In 64. It was available on any F85 or cutlass model .
But the 442 version of the 330 was a police special. Different cam valve train etc. The 330 engine came in at least 3 states of tune. And yes, you could order the 442 package (B09 police package) on any F85 or Cutlass except station wagon in 1964.
My all time favorite two cars the tri power g to ran 0 to 60 in 5.8 seconds 14.4 in a quarter mile.
never seen a 4 door GTO before.
Of course, It's not a factory GTO, but a factory four-door LeMans or Tempest upgraded with GTO items.
Your shot of the white interior is NOT a 65. The 65 did not have wood on the consol or the dash. Also in 65 the ignition switch was top left on the dash.
How about the Buick’s? Not even mentioned here but should in 65 there was the Rivera gs with a 425 nailhead engine with dual quads yes in a Buick although the car was very heavy about 4400 Lb I believe it would run 0-60 in 6.9 sec and quarter in the low 15,s to high 14’s in super tune and later in 1970 Buick unleashed the 455 stage 1 hemi killer one of the fastest cars made mid 12’s with just slicks and open headers nothing else bolt on stage 2 mods and you were in the low 11,s maybye high 10’s olds didn’t have anything that would touch it although I love all olds and pontiacs and especially Buick’s and of course the ultimate street cars back then were the mopars!
I like them both! Pontiac and Oldsmobile! They are my favorites, Pontiac is first though! To me the 64 GTO convertible is the ultimate , followed by the 70 GTO Judge convertible then the 70/72 442 and Cutlass, Not to say that I don't like any other of the GTO'S, 442'S , Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles , Just that the above are my favorites! in that order!
0 to 60 in 5.5 seconds. Gimme the 442 all day .
Very nice and a thumbs up liked.
My friend bought a new 65 442 on his 20th birthday ran hi 13s in 65. still owns it. smoked everybody!
I like the GTO very much, but I go for the Oldsmobile all the way!
I love all these 1964-1972 A bodied cars. But I have different favorite years between the 4 divisions. Going by LOOKS only, my favorite 442 years are 1966 and 1967. For the GTO I prefer the 1965 1968 and 1969. For the Chevelle I like both the 1967 and the 1970-72. For the GranSport, I like both the 1965 and the 1966 best.
Finally a logical comparison.
Every time I come to watch one of your videos you gets at least one thing wrong. Do you guys speak from experience or just from a quick google search for your information?
My 65 442 was an automatic with 3:31 gears, I raced and beat a tri- power 4spd GTO.
64 oldsmobile B09 option. 442 was in 65, 400 4 barrel dual exhaust.
Jeffrey, they were called and badged "442" in '64. The B09 was the order code.
Interior shown on the GTO was not a 65. 66 or 67
Yep... wrong dash and seats... these whole videos should have been run past one of us old guys before posting...
You are wrong my friend, that is a 1965 GTO interior, I know because my brother bought one in '65 and may parents bought a LeMans which had the same basic interior.
John Cifra as an owner of a 65, having grown up around a 66, I can attest that that picture was in fact wrong. 65 had diagonal seat pattern and the wood grain was only around the gauges like the 64 dash
I found a hard to find at dealers in 1965 ....albertson olds in Culver City had gun metal grey model.......Not 1 Goat beat it in socal......the only threat was the Buick Sky Hawk SS....we changed the rear end ratio to 3.91.....the et,s were in most cases were a half second faster but 12 miles faster.
The deliverd cost was just under $ 3200.........My brothernsold it a year later low mileage for $2900
Bet that 4 dr gto is a real collector item today
Back in 65 my aunt was an RN, and hitting her mid fifties she wanted something "sporty", I suppose to keep her in the flow with her younger RN colleagues. So she went out and bought the 442, which according to my dad, was very much a performamce car, but being eleven years old at the time, I knew nothing of how it was equipped. But I do remember my aunt was embarrassed to drive it because she peeled out at every traffic signal. She sold it after only a couple of months :-)
442 awww day
I think MOST people prefer the 1967 GTO. I prefer the 1965 myself. But of all of them I like the 1965 and 1966 Buick GranSport (not as much the 1967 for some reason).
GTO rules !!! Nuff said.
GTO was not even close to as quick as the 442. That is a documented fact. 2 seconds slower to 60. GTO stood for Got Taken Out in every drag race with a 442.
@@pleasegrowabrain GOAT = greatest of all time