Minor rules error in the comparison (2:15) - you don't need to discard green tiles to build pagodas. Discarding two green tiles is one option to construct pagodas when a set of three tiles is already on the board but with no pagoda present (probably because it was moved). If you place three adjacent tiles, just as with T&E, you can place the pagoda immediately at no additional cost after the third is laid down.
Although he's known for reworking his games, I give Reiner credit on this one especially because he took a classic, but which is a bit unwelcoming, and made it more cheerful 20 years later. Kudos
Dutrait or not, I think the artwork for the FFG version of T&E is superior to Y&Y. I would love for you to do a comparison of Y&Y to the advanced FFG rules of T&E including the civilization buildings and wonder variant. Talking about the FFG rules, there is a variant that only allows the defender to commit as many tiles to a war that will enable them to tie with the attacker, no more no less. This would perhaps rectify some of the qualms you have with war in T&E. As someone already pointed out, battles are also called Revolts and Wars in the FFG version of T&E.
Fantastic overview Tom, I was just trying to figure out the differences based off of another brief review I saw. Holy hell, there are a lot more changes than I thought. They kind of made it slightly easier, more intuitive, more options, and maybe sped up. Great point about Y&Y evening out the balances of power between the different colors. I also think that since T&E was in a pretty unique design space, which no one really has entered, you can make the case that Reiner’s efforts to revamp it may have made a better game. Best comparison review, awesome job !!
I hope to see this done for Starcadia Quest & Arcadia Quest as well! Could also be done for Near & Far & Above & Below, as well as Agricola & Caverna, etc.
Jake Kamps and for God sakes, Castles of Burgundy. That game needs a pimped out reprint. I love it with my all my heart but my god, it’s one ugly beast.
I didn't know it would be possible to get a balanced and interesting opinion on Y&Y vs T&E, but Tom, this was some amazing comparison! I love Tigris & Euphrates, played it both on the table and on iPad a lot and was both excited and skeptical about Y&Y, but now I just want to get it and probably keep both?
They are called revolt and war since the updated FFG T&E version. Agree with Ozzy. Art is better on Y&Y, sure! production against FFG T&E? No way, that game is beautiful, cubes are horrible for this version. I will end up having both.
Personally, I prefer the more subtle colours of T&E. I find LOUD PRIMARY colours of both pieces & the board in games, such as Y&Y & others, an actual distraction. That make sense?
I've played Y&Y only once and it appears to me that it suffers from the luck of the draw even more than T&E simply because we run through the tiles much faster because of tbe special rules for the different colors. So I still prefer T&E
"I don't know if both need to exist." Spoken by the man who has how many deck builders, worker placement, and Star Wars/Cthulu/zombie games:) I love T&E and am very much looking forward to getting Y&Y. There really aren't many games like this and I am very happy that they do both exist. But thank you Tom for reviewing these and giving them some much-deserved attention.
That's not quite true. Having two deckbuilders is very different from having these two games, which are VERY VERY similar, as opposed to Dominion and Thunderstone Quest, for example.
Considering it has always been a very unique game, with no imitators, and no expansions; I think you make a very good point. In a tabletop world of explicit and implicit repetition, having T&E and Y&Y would be a modest excess.
Whether someone needs both is another matter. But the comment on the review was "I don't know if both need to exist." I think because of the very thing you state, which is that there are no imitators and expansions, I welcome the arrival from the original designer of a different take on T&E. Perhaps it will get more people to try the original, or they'll find they really prefer Y&Y.
Production on this does not beat the newer FFG edition of Tigris, like at all. Artwork maybe, becausd Dutrait is pretty much God right now. But overall, I think the latest edition of Tigris is vastly superior to this production wise. Tigris has Awesome mini’s and individual chits with the actual resource instead of boring Euro cubes, etc.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Minor rules error in the comparison (2:15) - you don't need to discard green tiles to build pagodas. Discarding two green tiles is one option to construct pagodas when a set of three tiles is already on the board but with no pagoda present (probably because it was moved). If you place three adjacent tiles, just as with T&E, you can place the pagoda immediately at no additional cost after the third is laid down.
Not sure if I'm at minority with it or not, but I think the Mayfair version looks gorgeous, one of the prettiest game of all time in fact for me.
I do like the newer gameplay mechanisms. Like the face up tiles, that’s fantastic.
Although he's known for reworking his games, I give Reiner credit on this one especially because he took a classic, but which is a bit unwelcoming, and made it more cheerful 20 years later. Kudos
Dutrait or not, I think the artwork for the FFG version of T&E is superior to Y&Y.
I would love for you to do a comparison of Y&Y to the advanced FFG rules of T&E including the civilization buildings and wonder variant.
Talking about the FFG rules, there is a variant that only allows the defender to commit as many tiles to a war that will enable them to tie with the attacker, no more no less. This would perhaps rectify some of the qualms you have with war in T&E.
As someone already pointed out, battles are also called Revolts and Wars in the FFG version of T&E.
So what's next...Danube and Volga?
For 2047 :D
I might get Yellow and Yangtze, but there is no way I am getting rid of my old Tigris and Euphrates.
Tony Chen if the 2p game for
This is equally as good as Tigris, this is replacing it for me.
Fantastic overview Tom, I was just trying to figure out the differences based off of another brief review I saw.
Holy hell, there are a lot more changes than I thought. They kind of made it slightly easier, more intuitive, more options, and maybe sped up.
Great point about Y&Y evening out the balances of power between the different colors.
I also think that since T&E was in a pretty unique design space, which no one really has entered, you can make the case that Reiner’s efforts to revamp it may have made a better game.
Best comparison review, awesome job !!
I hope to see this done for Starcadia Quest & Arcadia Quest as well!
Could also be done for Near & Far & Above & Below, as well as Agricola & Caverna, etc.
Jake Kamps and for God sakes, Castles of Burgundy. That game needs a pimped out reprint. I love it with my all my heart but my god, it’s one ugly beast.
I have the 1997 version of T&E and its one of my first "big euro"s. I loved it and instantly ordered Y&Y. Looking forward to it!
Buuut its not an euro... :)
I didn't know it would be possible to get a balanced and interesting opinion on Y&Y vs T&E, but Tom, this was some amazing comparison!
I love Tigris & Euphrates, played it both on the table and on iPad a lot and was both excited and skeptical about Y&Y, but now I just want to get it and probably keep both?
The Fantasy Flight versions rulebooks also use war and revolt instead of external och internal conflict.
They are called revolt and war since the updated FFG T&E version. Agree with Ozzy. Art is better on Y&Y, sure! production against FFG T&E? No way, that game is beautiful, cubes are horrible for this version. I will end up having both.
Personally, I prefer the more subtle colours of T&E. I find LOUD PRIMARY colours of both pieces & the board in games, such as Y&Y & others, an actual distraction. That make sense?
Thanks Tom.
I've played Y&Y only once and it appears to me that it suffers from the luck of the draw even more than T&E simply because we run through the tiles much faster because of tbe special rules for the different colors. So I still prefer T&E
Time for a Huang vs Yellow & Yangtze
"I don't know if both need to exist." Spoken by the man who has how many deck builders, worker placement, and Star Wars/Cthulu/zombie games:)
I love T&E and am very much looking forward to getting Y&Y. There really aren't many games like this and I am very happy that they do both exist.
But thank you Tom for reviewing these and giving them some much-deserved attention.
That's not quite true. Having two deckbuilders is very different from having these two games, which are VERY VERY similar, as opposed to Dominion and Thunderstone Quest, for example.
Considering it has always been a very unique game, with no imitators, and no expansions; I think you make a very good point. In a tabletop world of explicit and implicit repetition, having T&E and Y&Y would be a modest excess.
Whether someone needs both is another matter. But the comment on the review was "I don't know if both need to exist." I think because of the very thing you state, which is that there are no imitators and expansions, I welcome the arrival from the original designer of a different take on T&E. Perhaps it will get more people to try the original, or they'll find they really prefer Y&Y.
I love your tirade while holding the manuals. Very entertaining to watch.
I have T&E, I think I will try playing it w/ some Y&Y rules used (like the market) rather than buying a replacement game.
Interesting idea
I'd like to know how many of each color tile/hex are used in each game.
T&E also has a variant building that only takes 3 to build (like a pagoda).
ahh.. so the pagoda idea has been there all along for 20 years, just waiting for it's time to shine. (-:
In a way (it's in the FF version anyway), but I believe there's only 1 of those buildings each in T&E.
Uh-oh. Better trade off my Mayfair copy of T&T ASAP!
Yeah hard to compare when a lot of us have the newer FFG version of TE. I can't stand cubes though.
cubes have SO jumped the shark !!! like seriously
Yah I’m surprised they still make board games heavy on the Cubes?? Makes the game look like a late 90’s/early 20’s era game
Cubes are awesome!
T&E much better game IMHO
Production on this does not beat the newer FFG edition of Tigris, like at all. Artwork maybe, becausd Dutrait is pretty much God right now. But overall, I think the latest edition of Tigris is vastly superior to this production wise. Tigris has Awesome mini’s and individual chits with the actual resource instead of boring Euro cubes, etc.
Among Euro gamers, many actually prefer classic wooden cubes to fancy plastic junk.
@@markusschmidt9260 I do too, except for colorblind players
T&E is slinking sadly away.
I guess this is appropriate since most of our boardgames are manufactured in China.