What if Trotsky Came To Power Instead Of Stalin? (Ft: Cypher the Cynical Historian)
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2020
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Its often wondered what the Soviet Union could have become if just one man had taken over, instead of Stalin. A surprisingly long-lasting mythos of Trotsky. So what would actually had happened if he had taken over after Lenin? Here is one scenario.
Check Out Cyphers Myths of the USSR: • 10 Soviet History Myth...
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Special thanks to Cypher the Cynical Historian for helping out with this video. Check out his Soviet Myth video here: ua-cam.com/video/97qO3g5MGmc/v-deo.html
Dear AlternateHistoryHub,
Do you ever look at history and how it turned out, and figure that there really is a God?
I have a question: What if the Second Balkan War never happened because, I don't know, Bulgaria takes a few parts of Macedonia? I feel that that might make WW1 end differently because Bulgaria would probably join the Entente at some point during the war. Would this change the outcome of WW1? Would it be similar to what would happen if Teddy Roosevelt became president in 1912?
What if South Africa kept its nuclear weapons program?
Hello Cody, I sincerely enjoy watching your videos and content and was wondering if you could perhaps dedicate a video towards the question of "What if Britain and the United States accepted Himmler's peace negotiations to help the Germans fight the Soviets?". I know Hitler and some of his still faithful supporters weren't aware and I think it would be interesting to see how the whole situation would turn out. I hope the question doesn't come off as idiotic as I did not do too much research into the peace talks, but I think it would still be interesting nonetheless. Thank you and keep making awesome content for everyone to enjoy!
Honestly I don’t like the last part. Until 1933 Germany didn’t have the N. in control. They would remain a democracy. Then if Trotsky helped the communists in Germany either they would take over and become an ally, or trigger a civil war. Then the western powers would likely work together against him like you said. Then there is the fact of the Great Depression, and that could spur communism in the west. Lastly, France had many socialist supporters, and Trotsky also could’ve demanded they trigger a civil war. This is very great tho, 10/10
You’re telling me Trotsky was so leftist he actually annoyed other leftists?
As a leftist, trust me when I say that all leftists annoy other leftists
Maria G as another Leftist, the anarchist kind, I can confirm
@@Maria29G No wonder Franco won the Spanish Civil War.
To be fair, all leftists are annoying to all other leftists. Have you ever met a leftist?
And the leftists are so obnoxious that they tried to each other alive.
Lenin: “I want Trotsky to be in charge”
Trotsky: “Nice pick”
Stalin: “Ice pick”
So dumb...
I LOVE IT!
"The world may never know if Stalin's paranoia was targeting the right people, or whether he made more enemies trying to exterminate every Trotsykist in the Party. What is known is that what he feared eventually came to pass. Today, Leon Trotsky reemerged as having returned from his exile, and with the support of several influential party members and NKVD officers, launched a coup overthrowing Stalin's rule.
The former General Secretary was attacked in his home with an ice axe, and was swiftly executed along with several of his supporters. Tearing down the cult of personality he built up will take time, but the people know now at least that he was not immortal." - HOI4
😂
lol
That’s gold 😂
The thing is, in this alternate timeline we’d be thinking, “man this trotsky guy stinks, if Stalin came to power everything would be better”
I doubt that, Trotsky was a military leader and history has a tendency to fetishize military leaders. Stalin being a complete bungler, really hurts him in history.
@@Edax_Royeaux That's true, but you could also make the case that Hitler was a military leader, and I don't see many people fetishizing him.
@@Edax_Royeaux Funnily enough, Nazi Germany's military was so effective directly *because* Hitler didn’t touch it. Most of the officers of WW1 weren’t purged, with promotions and medals still being based on competence.
The problem was that having all political power consolidated into one man is a double-edged sword. While Hitler could promote skilled leaders at a record pace and make risky moves, it also meant that commanders would over-promise and grovel to Hitler for resources. Not to mention the fact that because France fell so quickly (a war that Hitler himself thought would cost over a million German lives), it made Hitler feel invincible and caused him to overextend his military until it broke.
@@morningwoody4514 Hitler was Supreme Commander of the German Army. During the Battle of Stalingrad (before the encirclement), he sacked General Halder and Field Marshal List and took direct command of Army Group A in the Caucasus. And at least according to TIK, he wasn't terrible as Commander of Army Group A, because he was capable of thinking on a grand strategic level while his generals had tunnel vision. Even though Hitler could see the impending disaster at Stalingrad coming, there wasn't many forces left he could put in it's way to try and stop it. Also Hitler being Supreme Commander of the German Army and Commander of Army Group A created a weird chain of command structure loop
@@Edax_Royeaux It shows that the German military was most effective when he provided a general overview and allowed the military to do its thing, but once he because overly involved in military matters things got worse. But Germany was bound to loose, and there was nothing Hitler could do about that.
It took me until now that you replaced the swastica with the UA-cam logo, and I have never been happier with a substitute symbol..
Scrolled all the way down here to see a comment appreciating it as much as I did 😄
Swastica ? You confused hold east asian symbols with hammers and sickles.
Aren't those the same thing?
@@johnathangaminj8200 The difference is one of them has incorporated females into their regime, and the other one never had the chance
@@johnathangaminj8200 Yes, you’re right, my apologies
I'm reminded of an old joke. A Soviet artist is told to design a poster for the film, "Lenin in Poland." He returns with a picture of a man and woman engaging in barely-acceptable-to-print behavior. The maker of the film is furious.
"Who is this shameless man here?"
"That is Trotsky."
"And who is this loose woman beside him?"
"That is Lenin's wife."
"And where," cries the filmmaker, "is Lenin?!"
The artist gives a conspiratorial smile. "Lenin's in Poland."
For some reason I read this in the voice of Slavoj Zizek
@@HiromiyamotoDesuDesu *nose touching intensifies*
@@HiromiyamotoDesuDesu PAH-URE IDEOLOGY
@@oracle8192 *sniff*
That was not about Trotsky, that was about Dzierżynski.
so trotsky was the first guy to say "But thats not real communism"
Lol
Nailed it.
That’s kinda true tho, Britain was supposed to become communist, not a pre industrial nation with less resources like Russia. And the soviets weren’t really following the whole Marxist theory because they really couldn’t.
You could say it’s like in capitalism you have rotten countries like the Latin America and US and more balanced and fair countries like the nordics, Europe, etc. If the whole world was like Germany or Norway I don’t think many people would oppose capitalism so much, the same way, if Britain had developed communism in the vein of Marxist theory I don’t think it would have been as bad as it was
@@MacetazzOpina You aren‘t levying the criticism Trotsky did
@@n.m.8802 well we have a political party that flip flopped between centrism and socialism so it's not that strange.
I always assumed Trotsky rising to power would have resulted in a much more severe Cold War, because Trotsky really was committed to spreading communism ideologically, while Stalin only sought that as a means of promoting Soviet interests.
My guess is that had Trotsky wound up at the top of the heap instead of Stalin, it would have resulted in the failure of Communism any number of times. Trotsky simply lacked the political skills and iron determination to drive the Communist agenda with the talent and energy Stalin brought to it.
Just as a possible scenario---
Trotsky was HOT to collectivize the land ---to take it away from the control of the peasantry who had grabbed it during THEIR revolution.
Lenin took a shot at doing that. He failed and adopted the NEP. I can see Trotsky doing what Lenin did, and driving the USSR and Communism over the cliff when the peasantry revolted effectively.
Trotsky was always hot to collectivize the land, while Stalin patiently accumulated the power to WAGE WAR effectively on the peasantry when the time came. So again I would expect Trotsky to have gone off prematurely, causing a rebellion he couldn't contain.
Stalin DID begin his campaign to collectivize the land, right after getting rid of Trotsky! At that time he has the political means to wage WAR effectively against the peasants who constituted most of the population of Russia. He killed off MILLIONS in getting what he wanted.
Trotsky was as brutal as Lenin or Stalin, but I don't think he would have had the political talent to carry that off.
Just my guess and bias, of course. But while Stalin was successfully waging war on the peasantry, stealing their assets and collectivizing the land, Trotsky was first kicked out of the Communist Party, then forced into internal exile, then kicked out of the Soviet Union altogether. That's the measure of the difference between Stalin and Trotsky, in my opinion.
being devoted to spreading communism as opposed to just advancing soviet interests is a good thing though. Stalin was such a controversial figure the USSR underwent an entire period of de-Stalinisation after he died. He was then replaced by increasingly liberal leaders who culminated in Gorbachyov & the destruction of the soviet union from the inside-out. I think it would have played out a lot differently if Trotsky did a good job of promoting communism, something that Stalin failed at.
@@SeattlePioneeractually, by that logic, Trotsky would probably end the Bolshevik rule, prematurely freeing Russia
Interesting speculation.
I would suppose that Trotski would have failed to be willing to kill millions of Russians and Ukraineans in order to steal grain produced by peasants to selll on the world market to finance USSR's industrialization.
That would have meant that USSR would only had a part of the industrialization needed to arms millions of Red Army soldiers with T34 tanks and aircraft to defeat Hitler. And he would not have flogged and terrorized a winning effort out of Red army commanders and soldiers, and thus the USSR would have been defeated by Germany.
So PERHAPS the people of the USSR would not have been as enslaved by Stalin, and instead would have been enslaved when USSR was defeated by Germany in WWII.
Stalin's main way of justifying all his murder and terror was the defeat of Germany. That really only happened BECAUSE of Stalin's murder and terror. So your suggestion that Trotsky would not have been as murderous as Stalin also suggests that USSR% would not have had the margin of power needed to defeat Hitler ---and even at that it was a very near thing early in Germany's invasion.
I would be suprised if the soviet union still exists in the 50s, at least in Europe
I don't understand why the post-Lenin period is always framed as a Stalin vs. Trotsky rivalry. It was so much more complicated than that, for example Nikolai Bukharin was very influential as well, surely more than Trotsky, but he is rarely even mentioned when this period is discussed.
Speaking of Bukharin, another aspect I'm curious about is to what degree the Old Bolshiveks would have had Stalin not kill them off. I feel Trotsky would've kept them around to support his legitimacy, and in doing so, might have kept enough "carefully curated opposition" to help keep memory of the revolution alive... whereas Stalin basically killed everyone off who wasn't constantly loyal to him personally and therefore upon Stalin's death the USSR was basically drifting with a system that doesn't develop a system of leadership willing to take chances. Would the USSR still be around today had the Old Bolshiveks been left around to in turn keep that revolutionary zeal alive?
Remilia elected as Chairwoman of the State Soviet
Bukharin didnt get a funny death
Strange as it might sound, as far as the West is concerned at least, I think the reason might be George Orwell. For a long time, Orwell has been capitalism’s favorite anti-communist shill, and his perceptions of Soviet politics have become the *only* perceptions of Soviet politics for a lot of westerners who don’t study the subject with any interest. But while he might have been an irritating reactionary gnat, Orwell was a strange sort of Trotsky proponent. You see it over and over again, in his two most subsidized works especially. Snowball and Goldstein. Apart from Trotsky’s own writings, the idea that Trotsky was just a few years away from achieving “real socialism” really starts in most people when they read Animal Farm. None of it is true, of course. Trotsky was a political fool whose ideology was riddled with petty bourgeois revision. But the idea has gotten there none the less.
@@seronymusWho was Remilia?
The true heir should not have been Stalin or Trotsky. The true heir was Tim Curry all along
spaaAAACE
REEEEE
Red Alert ?
@@pitipuziko3555 realistically no as anime would be near unrecognisable or never exist.
Wrong the people elected Stalin , Lenin didnt chose heirs in USSR people elected their leaders.
“Long time fans might be thinking, didn’t he do a video about this already?” Dude, I still remember the old alternatehistorypt-style videos you used to make
i rembered that
I remember when the What if l Persia defeated Greece video came out
Zoomer Imperator that was 2017. I’m talking about the 2013 era.
Same
@Zoomer Imperator I'm pretty sure he still does it. The timing is just erratic.
I think you're missing some nuances from Germany. The Russian Communists (including Lenin) never thought any revolution would work without at least one fully capitalist country having their own socialist revolution (the Bolsheviks are kind of like the dog that caught the car, in this way). Germany ends up with two competing groups of socialists: the Democratic Socialists and the German Communists (one wants to elect socialism into power, the other wants to revolt). Fascism gets going while these two (bigger) groups fight each other. When Hitlers says that in the early days, if his enemies had united fascism would've been crushed, this is what he's referring to. So the real historical question is: If it was Trotsky, instead of Stalin, would a more aggressive Communist Russia, create conditions in Germany where a socialist government (through either elections or revolution) would have come to power. This would have extinguished fascism in Germany before it began.
Who knows.
Additionally, Trotsky was Jewish and Russia post-revolution still had a lot of Anti-Semitic sentiment (even if it was illegal). He declined the offer to become Prime Minister after the coup, for this reason. He didn't think the country would follow him. Lenin would have had to over come Russian prejudice to get Trotsky in.
U kidding right!!!!! Uker famine holocaust in 30s was caused by zion komissars...lenin jew, marx jew, trotski jew...kommies were jews
Hey, do you happen to have a source on the Trotsky turning down that position thing? Not doubting you but I'm doing a pet-project related to Soviet History and I wanted to know where you heard that he declined the position. Thanks!
@@quack6292 Sorry for the late reply: Revolutions Podcast by Mike Duncan. He's a journalist, not a prof, but he does do a HUGE amount of research and keeps a relatively neutral position as he goes through Russian History, Marxism, etc.
He's also a good source for French, Haitian, American, and Mexican revolutions and the English Civil Wars.
@@BlueRockBill Sorry for my late reply lol, Thank you very much! This should be very helpful to me
National socialism and fascism are not the same.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I recall, Orwell's portrail of Snowball/Trotsky wasn't all unicorns and rainbows. He was in favour of pigs getting special treatment just as much as Napoleon.
"He was extremely opinionated"
Okay
"even by leftist revolutionary standards"
oh no
Sounds like he'd be right at home on twitter... Just saying.
So, like AOC?
@@lewisvargrson Look no more than 18:27 😂
Oh no indeed
@@willblack7353 aoc bad bottom text
**points** Hey, I've seen this one a few years ago.
“This is a classic!”
New fans: What do you mean you've seen this? It's brand new,
Communism spreads beyond Russia, as well as becoming the aggresser in what would become WW2. And so after the Soviets are defeated, the Nazis and America enter into a Cold War. Which would ALSO mean, that instead of "The Nazis Were Right!" and "Neo Nazis" being in America, there would be far left "The Soviets Were Right!" and "Neo Soviets" would be in America.
Hunter V and instead the left jeers and points at everything remotely right wing and calls it Nazi propaganda
@@hunterv9983 nah, even If the Nazis won (which No, but let's ignore that), they would still lose
To be honest I think that Trotsky would realize maybe after taking power that his thought of safety through elimination was not such a good idea.
It didn't stop Lenin. If Trotsky had ultimate authority he would have used it.
You are supposing that Trotsky WAS NOT A BOLSHEVIK?
There is PLENTY of evidence that he was ----and none that he was not.
Shucks ---even soft hearted Stalin gave Trotsky opportunities to LIVE after being expelled from the party. Stalin never made THAT mistake again!
Gotta remember that Fascism was adopted by the Eastern European nations BECAUSE it was seen as fervently anti-communist. It’s entirely possible that Britain and France could have seen large and even prominent fascist parties as communism is seen as more of a threat than fascism
Fascism is not a threat to the bourgeoisie; on the contrary, it is salvation. Fascism was formed as a reaction to communist sentiments in the country, as a terrorist agony in an attempt to preserve the bourgeois system.
That's part of how the US's current fascist party came into power
@@ratelarmonter4736 Communism is not seen as a threat to the bourgeoisie either. Those are the ones funding it. Communism is a threat to the middle and working class. To those with enough money to be hated, but not enough to be safe and to those who have no means of resisting tyranny.
@@therainbowconnection6813 lol. Tell me you're joking, because if you are then that's a good one.
@@user-yj3ti9rg7n Explain.
"Tell the guy in charge of giving people jobs not to let that jerk Stalin take over. BTW, who's the guy in charge of giving people jobs again?"
"That would be Stalin, sir"
I see you're a man of culture
Thats too simplified
@@riccards You could even say it's Oversimplified
@@oswald7597 Roll the credits
nice oversimplified reference
A Soviet Joke: A man in the USSR is sentenced to ten years in the gulag. Upon his arrival, he is asked by another prisoner, “How did you get ten years?”
He responds, “I did nothing!”
The prisoner says to him, “Don’t lie to me now! Everyone knows that nothing gets you five years!”
I don’t get it
@@Cadu_Ferreira The joke is that people that did nothing get 5 years in the gulag, the man got 10, meaning he did something
Wow you are a comedy genius
@@mycrobyte6063 I think he gets the joke but is adding his own humorous layer. As perhaps are you.
It's funny because it's true!
Replace one ruthless dictator with another ruthless dictator that was supposed to be the original ruthless dictator that got replaced by the ruthless dictator
"I understood that reference"
Communism in a nutshell
Since so many different people have different reasons for portraying Trotsky in a certain way it seems ill advised to trust an account that attributes Animal Farm to Orson Welles
If Snowball kicked Napoleon out from the Animal Farm and stayed in power, then he could've saved the windmills.
Everything Snowball wanted to do Napoleon did so the results would've stayed the same.
@@mysteryjunkie9808 umm, no.
@@mysteryjunkie9808 No, not really lol
snowball was a fucking revisionist and you know it
@@darjeelingoffthegourd not as bad as Napoleon, he was just a pig...
Sorry
So basically people romantacized Trotszky because he wrote fanfiction of himself all the time
Considering the alternatives: *Romanticizing Stalin*
Yeah I can understand the blind hope.
Useless fact Stalin very rarely took a bath of course everyone was too scared to say something
@Spartan 506 and the fact he killed 20milion people
@Spartan 506 ? Stalin was estimated to have killed 20 million
@Spartan 506 tankie detected
Ironic that his willingness to listen to technical experts would have helped some problems but his ideological zeal even by revolutionary standards would have caused other issues
5:58 the memories this scene gave me. Ill never forget this series
15:02
"Far less restraint than Stalin" is one of, if not the most terrifying phrases I think I've ever heard.
Well sh
So Stalin was tame in comparison???
@@laurocoman As terrifying as it sounds I guess so
The same goes for Lenin himself. Simon Sebag Montefiore describes a scene in his biography of the young Stalin (until 1917, that is - he wrote about Stalin's later life and rule extensively earlier), in which Lenin, in an argument during a pre-revolution communist congress, began to call for the immediate exectuion of everyone who didn't agree with him. It was Stalin who told Lenin to calm the hell down and stop being so ridiculous.
@@Depipro is there any communist who wasn't bat-shit insane?
*Trotsky:* "This Empire is in...unacceptable...CONDITIOOOOOOOOOOONS! UNACCEPTABLE! One million years work camp!"
Huh, you are here too
Is it wrong that I read that in lemongrabs voice?
Joshua Saffy saaame lol
You here too????? We’re are you coming from?
Joshua Saffy no
Having done Russian history from 1800 through the Napoleonic era up until the end of the Soviet Union, I found myself thinking about this same question and often found myself bemoaning the failure of Trotsky to take over from Lenin.
Then we'd bemoan the failure of Stalin to take over
Trotsky was a bit of a military genius but he suffered big time defeats externally and internally.
He wasn't a military genius lmao, he was good at organizing and modernize the Red Army. He wasn't a strategist at all. The best thing he did was getting former Officers into the Red Army so it's a professional army instead of a Revolutionary.
"The Soviets might not just stop at Germany"
"Hmm sounds familiar..."
*Looks at China*
Japan already had China and most of Asia pretty well flatten by then (2nd Sino war).
Excuse his lack of knowledge in sure he thinks Japan was an allied 😁😁
@@mommat794 a perfect vehicle to export the revolution across
@@maxwellli7057 look up William Blum on the internet archive.
Uh.... the CCP was waging its revolution since the mid 1920s
Another scenario that could be interesting: what if Lenin was in better health and remained alive and in power a few years (or decades) longer?
Then, since Lenin wiuld be in, Stalin would be out, so he would become Stalout and maybe be related to Stallone.
@Jonathan Williams Search up Lenin's : Peaceful Coexistence
It would have been the opposite
Churchill wrote that 'Russia's greatest misfortune was Lenin's birth. It's second greatest misfortune was his untimely death'
Even an arch imperialist and capitalist like Churchill could see that the Soviet Union was ultimately a humanist ideology. He found it easy to be an ally of the Soviet Union because he argued 'Whilst Nazism can only get worse, Bolshevism can only get better'
When your ideological opponents respect and agree with you, you know you are doing something right.
@@PORRRIDGE_GUN man fuck I wish Lenin didn't die
Lenin would’ve accidentally been killed and Trotsky would’ve disappeared. Stalin would then reluctantly take power and eat all the grain.
Trotsky: propose Stalin to the general secretary post
Stalin: exile Trotsky
Trotsky: suprised pikachu face
Trotsky's willingness to use people from the old regime to train people in the USSR is kinda similar to what Mao ended up doing later
Yeah but Mao ended up doing Lysenkoism which was done by Stalin's apprentice tho.
Not only Trotsky but Lenin too.
Alternate History: What if George Orwell was a radio host and Orson Wells was a writer.
"Snowball... That's right. Snowball Frozen Peas. Full of country goodness and green peaness."
I heard that and thought did I hear that right? Maybe that’s the same world where the president was Ronald Reagan, the First Lady was Jane wyman, and the Vice President was Jerry Lewis
Orwell WAS a radio host. For the BBC. He did anti communist propaganda. Look it up. His work as a broadcaster for the BBC is what gave him the details for the offices and rooms in the Ministry of Truth.
Citizen Smith (that's probably only going to work for UK readers).
@@NoahBodze and Wells was a writer. He co-wrote Citizen Kane.
Trotsky was opposed to Lenin's change and move to the NEP. Stalin used this to isolate Trotsky. Trotsky also overestimated his popularity and underestimated Stalin's intelligence.
He also under-estimated the spinelessness and bravery of potential allies in the party.
He was also an inconsistent and undecided leftist who had bad strategies and couldn’t make up his mind. Lenin called him a political slut in the newspapers, to make sure that he wouldn’t replace him.
@@thomasprat7760 Whom are u referrıng to?
@@JakobMusick Trotsky. He played a crucial role in the October revolution and in the civil war, but then his ideas were constantly changing and he wasn’t consistent. Then he fled in 1928-29 and started advocating for a US military coup in the SU.
@@thomasprat7760 Stalins were also changing throughout the years. Stalin was the ultimate opportunist. It was charecteristic of State Socialism for the 'party line' to change. These people were forging absolutely new paths. Their ideas changed as the conditions changed, and their prospects of being in or out of power also changed
I mentally jumbled Trotsky with Tchaikovsky when reading the title, and that sounds like a interesting scenario.
USSR anthem: 1922 overture
Imagine knowing nearly nothing about Trotsky but making a video about it
Ah, yes. The famous writer behind Animal Farm: Orson Welles.
I was thinking maybe it was some sort of "fool-the-algorithm" thing, a bit like the UA-cam Party replacing the Nazis in all these videos...
My family still thinks Orson Welles is the English socialist and George Orwell did the broadcast about aliens.
@@Doctor_Robert nope, just a slip of the tongue that neither Cody or I caught, LOL
@@CynicalHistorian lol, awesome. (Could've entirely fooled me)
In an alternative timeline where citizen Kane ran an animal farm in 1984 called Insoc
A yes, Leon "I'm gonna start a revolution in every country that hosts me in my exile" Trotsky
Based
Fuck he really did not think that one through
@@ItsButterBean1020 Mexican Ice Picks! Come get your Mexican Ice Picks!
Stalin: We must prepare, for a great threat shall soon come.
Trotsky: *WE ARE THE DANGER*
*@ **19:00** or so;*
Orson Wells didn't write Animal Farm; George Orwell wrote it.
19:07 did cypher really call George Orwell Orson Welles?
Yes, he did.
Orson Welles wrote Animal Farm in the timeline where Trotsky got to power
I was so confused....
At least it wasn't me having a brain fart. I'm getting old and thought I was having a senior moment, or maybe there was a glitch in the matrix.
Cypher, to me, can be a bit of a know-it-all pompous twat, so I find this especially funny.
“He was extremely opinionated, even by leftist revolutionary standards.”
“Blow up the moon to empower black minorities”
Yeah we leftists don't like trots
@@comissar8953 I can't think of a strain that LIKES trots. from anarchist, to Marxist-Leninist from Council comminists and syndicalists to Third world Maoists and Bordgists. Is there any actual kind of leftist that likes Trots?
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 maybe leftcoms but idk , he has Trotskyists
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 there is a kind of meme Trotskyism , posadism believes in permanent Revolution and nuclear war and aliens lol
Great video Cody, keep up the good work buddy!
3:20
On mobile, when I tap the screen to pull up the pause, previous & next video, CC, fullscreen, etc. buttons, the figures get an outline and little angry faces in light gray.
On Hitler's armband, he replaced the swastica with the youtube Icon, subtle, lol.
(Not making fun of you) It's been like that for a while, specifically since UA-cam's been flagging and censoring WWII videos.
Remember the the left for their sins and vote come Nov
Königstiger what?
I don't think Qannon is healthy for you. Don't listen
Yeah I do remember that now, he made a whole video. I feel like an idiot.
George Orwell: "...who the bloody hell is Orson Welles?"
You’ve never seen The Magnificent Burmese Ambersons?
He was best known for the (largely fictional) panic aroused by his (actual) broadcast of a radio play based on War of the Worlds in 1938. But apparently this guy just had a brain fart when he said Orson Welles instead of George Orwell.
@@bradfordhatch5085 To be honest their names are quite similar.
@@JonatasAdoM Oh, I know that; that's probably how the brain fart (or Freudian slip if you prefer the actual technical name) came about in the first place. I wasn't *dissing* the man, if that's what you thought. We *all* make such slips; God knows I've made my share. That doesn't mean the guy was dumb or anything. If anything the smarter and more educated you are the more likely you are to make such slips! Hence the common trope of the absent-minded professor. :-)
@@bradfordhatch5085 If I had a nickel for the times I've messed up Will Farrell and Pharell Williams...
>the USSR would be an ideological fanatical state
So... just like the USSR?
when you're a radical leftist like me, you'd know that they were authoritarian social democrats who can't be brought to actually practice communism.
@@JohnDoe-mp1yn Same enemies to me.
@@susangoaway social democrats are plugging the holes of capitalism, so you better pray they get shit done. you will never be a billionaire and capitalists will always be private dictators.
What world superpower across history isn't?
Cause we all know US imperialism isn't fanatical at all.
"they hate us because of our fReEdOm"
*US proceeds to bomb another children's hospital*...
Yep, that must be it.
@@JohnDoe-mp1yn Social democrats are the ones creating these holes in capitalism turning it into cronyism.
They are the last ones I'd trust.
That damn Orson Welles and his romanticizing of Trotsky in Citizen Kane
"So basically centrist"
Jreg wants to know your location
For a handshake?
Targi Svear
Centracide
@@randomuser5443 I mean, Cody was criticising people who would take fascists side just because communist attack them by calling them "basically centrist" so Cody isn't being nice to them, unless Jreg would centracide at the mention of them at all... would he?
@@Targisvear I think we both know the answer
@@JohnSmith-gz4fs So like "Meet the Parents" it is: "You said centrism on an airplane" "I said I didn't like centrism" "You said centrism on an airplane".
RIP this comments section. May the tankie/red-baiter feud commence!
May the comments be stained red with blood and communism.
Maybe they'll cancel each other out.
Adelante, Compañeros!
*munches popcorn in anarchist*
What if the Second Great Depression actually happens?
This is easily my favorite video of yours
You should totally do a what if Beria took over after Stalin video
"And they have aged terribly."
*"OOOOPS."*
RIP Sequelitis
I wish I understood, alas I know nothing of history and only watch these because me likey the voice
@@creshiell The picture was used on an old video of his on Trotsky, but it's not Trotsky there. I forgot what the guy's name was.
@@dakkarnemo1094 that's amazing LMFAO thank you
@@dakkarnemo1094 Yeah, IIRC, it was Mikhail Kalinin
"But *Orson Welles* had to stick his pen in it..."
This is truly an alternate timeline.
probs because welles is similar to orwell
Thought of this yesterday night, and just slept regardless.
13:55 another perfect opportunity to use the “OOPS!” sound effect
I love how he replaced the swastika with the UA-cam logo 😂
Where
@@antilinkpartyleader3239 The fact that you didn't notice makes it even funnier
@@CassDaMan1138 I was at 4 minutes while reading comments and I noticed it
always has been
@@antilinkpartyleader3239 14:12
Personally, I'm particularly interested in Cypher's alternate history Animal Farm, which is his universe was written by Orson Welles rather than George Orwell... :D
I'm still not sure if it was a joke, or an oversight on Cypher's part. Either way, Citizen Kane but it's Animal Farm. Talk about a confusing crossover.
"Stalin is too rude and this fault become unacceptable in the office of the General Secretary. Therefore I propose to the comrades that a way be found to remove Stalin from his position and replace him with someone more considerate to his comrades" Lenin
Despite his poor ideas, Lenin was a man who genuinely wanted to improve Russia. Stalin was just paranoid AF and only wanted power. Lenin didn't even want Stalin to succeed him.
*holy crap he's wearing a budenovka, my life is complete.*
Russian civil war uniform goes brrrrrrrrr
he just needs some telogreika and then our lives would be complete
@@awkwardbound569 And Sapogi. Don't forget the Sapogi
@@historyarmyproductions Also the gimnasterka
So, Trotsky would be my average Soviet run of Hearts of Iron
I tried being a nice Stalin and not purge anyone in one of my Russia runs, but then Trotsky attacked.
@@sevret313 Everything changed when...
Never mind
I always do a Trotsky run, I like the stage a coup buffs
1:27 Damn. Young Stalin was kind of a chad
He got a 13 year old pregnant at 27
I feel that Trotsky was the closest to fully embrace Marx's ideals. Lenin was ruthless, but he did think communism would help everybody, Stalin was just an asshole
Twitter tankies: “I’m a Marxist-Leninist, meaning I believe Lenin was correct in his assertions about the world and politics.”
Also Twitter tankies: “Stalin was based.”
Marxist Leninists are not Leninists but Stalinists.
@@MasterAdam100 depends on who you arguing
@@MasterAdam100 that's dumb
Not all ML's are the Stalinist types, the stalinists are usually teenagers and just really loud(they post and reply a lot).
@@theblackestvoid I know 40 year old MLs which support Stalin and can be considered stalinists
what westen historians dont get right is that the "lenin letter" was refered to the general assembly of the Soviet Comunist party and metioned many personalitys of the politic buro with critism on their positive and negatives. Not only stalin but also Trosky buharin and otheirs.
The worst adjective Lenin stated on the big three:
Stalin - Authoritarian
Trotsky - Political Slut
Bukharin - Young and unprepared
So it was Lenin's essentially roasting the Bolsheviks from his deathbed...
Yes but he later sent a second letter calling for the removal of Stalin.
Although the letter did come from Lenin's wife who was an active party member and was vocally against Stalin so who knows the authenticity.
trotsky was the original left twitter
I always feel slightly awkward about how hot Stalin was as a young man; I'm straight, Moustache Boy, get out of my brain!
Trotsky takes power of the Soviet Union, accidently falls down the stairs onto 72 knives and Stalin reluctantly comes into power. There is always Stalin comrade.
😆😆😆🤮
AL S,
Not if Stalin died before being able to gain power. That’s another possibility. Perhaps Trotsky only gained power because Stalin wasn’t around to take it
@@GargamelGold Comrade I think you need to talk to these nice men with guns. They will show you how Stalin would always have been around.
Good point though.
*"reluctantly"*
Two self-inflicted gunshots in the back of Trotsky's head, Stalin had no choice but to step up
Alternate History Cypher: Woodrow Wilson is to blame for the rise of Trotsky
Why
@@europadefender simplified, Woodrow Wilson kept the US neutral, which lead to WWI lasting longer, and the Germans sending Lenin back to Russia, who later lead a revolution against the Russian Republic, which lead the Soviet Union.
Also he created Wilsonism, which basically means that America should intervene in other countries to make it safe for democracy
@@gamebawesome Wilsonianism is just a fancy way of saying imperialism with democracy sprinkled in. At least Teddy was honest about it
@@samuelwithers2221 aT lEaSt
@@NathanDudani Relax, not defending Teddy, but he didn't even beat the bush about it
Stalin's greatest atrocity? Allowing Ayn Rand to learn to read and write.
How did I only now discover this channel?
Congrats to Cypher, getting Orson Wells and George Orwell mixed up
Lol
He said the wrong name, people do it all the time, Jesus
Georgson Orwells
@@twoscarabsintheswarm9055 Indeed, in the given context, Jesus would be the wrong name also. :p
@@Depipro yes but I just don't like how everyone cared so much about the wrong name being said, someone tried to portray it as a reason why Cody is a bad UA-camr or something
In a nutshell.
Stalin: Entrench against capitalism.
Trotsky: Crusade against capitalism, *MARX VULT*
Bukharin: Defeat capitalism on their own game. In order to defeat the enemy, we must become the enemy. *Deng Xiaoping takes notes
Nice one mate
Xiaoping wasn't a socialist
Deng was probably a communist in the 20s through 40s, but by the time of Mao's death he was arguably one of the most right-leaning leaders in China. Most of Deng's supporters today fits pretty well into the stereotypical US Republican voter image, although more socially conservative (you hear me right) and favor slightly more government intervention.
@@lukexu6400 So a stereotypical US Democrat. I see.
@@orrorsaness5942 weak
It's the first time I realize I am an "old subscriber" because I do remember that first video 🤣
I'll admit that the history I learned painted Trotsky as the more moderate of the two. As stated, I imagine that came a great deal from his criticism of Stalin from exile (making him appear to be so), and Orwell's expansion on that in "Animal Farm".
Astronaut:"Wait Trotsky's regime would have been equally as bad as Stalin's and maybe even worse?"
Astronaut with gun:"всегда был известен."
I guess they would be Cosmonauts in this case.
Братан, ты запостил скукожиться
19:04 Calls George Orwell "Orson Welles".
K
He didn't even direct the film. It was John Stephenson, 14 years after Welles died...
@@fikanera838 I think the bigger issue is that Orson Welles had nothing to do with it.
In his defense, I know many people who get then confused (myself included, I also throw in H. G. Wells because reasons).
He did that to avoid demonetization.
@@JohnSmith-wx9wj ...how does that work exactly?
In real life Trotsky was caught in a Trotsky Plotsky
I love how you changed A's logo to that of the host
I think you guys overcomplicated Trotsky rise to power. Yes, he was greatly disliked by the party. It doesn't matter though because he was liked by the army. There's a reason why Stalin executed pretty much every officers in the Red Army after Trotsky left (which is actually a big reason why the Soviets did so poorly in the Winter War and the start of WW2, they just had no experienced officers left at all.) That reason is that the army and especially the generals still supported Trotsky who was their leader for so long. So I don't think Trotsky rise to power happens by him somehow seducing the Politburo, I think it happens with Trotsky just not accepting it when they kick him out of the party, rallying up his generals and becoming a military dictator. Sure, doing something like that would be against what Trotsky believed in but, as you said, he was a contrarian and a zealot, he could easily convince himself it was in the interest of the revolution in the long run.
I'm also glad you point out that the Soviets could easily win that version of WW2 because, without the officer's purge Stalin did, I think the Red army would have been a lot more formidable.
The correct take
I don’t think the Soviets would take control of the world. More like Cody’s take on the Nazis: eventually civil conflicts bog down the empire, and US/Canada/Australia become fighting forces to eventually take it down....and just like in the IRL USSR their inevitable undoing will be their own system and lack of innovation to keep up with the West while maintaining such a vast empire. Making it larger doesn’t change the fact that a socialist empire fighting a capitalist one in innovation will never win. In fact it exasperates a lot of the issues it had being bogged down in massive bureaucracy and mismanagement.
...or everyone just dies in nuclear hellfire and no one wins. Don’t see a scenario where the Soviets take over the world. But yeah, probably the majority of it (Europe and most of Asia).
@@jpusar The thing is that with Trotsky, the ideology of the USSR is changed completely (you know, party separated from economics) and more union power, and less command economics, therefore there's more room for improvement (the USSR actually didnt lack improvement and innovation, it lacked consumer products and individual people)
Most purged officers were not shot. Many were in fact reinstated. Do 3 of 5 marshals were shot.
@hypppo Yes, 3 of 5 marshalls. Also 13 of 15 army commanders, 8 of 9 admirals, 50 of 57 army corps commanders, 154 out of 186 division commanders, 16 of 16 army commissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars. And most of those who weren't purged were Bolsheviks who were put in those positions because of their political affiliation with the Politburo, every veteran officers who had actually served either Trotsky or the Tsar at some point were purged. And those who were reinstated were only reinstated during WW2 after Russia had already lost millions of men.
The effects of the purge on the Red Army were massive dude. Their ''strategy'' during the Winter War was basically to send their armies in a single compact line toward Finland's biggest cities. And then they wondered why they lost 6 times more men and thousands of tanks to Finnish infantry on skis.
I rmember reading one of trotsky's books once and he started it with going off about how the west are technically wrong with the months they use for the 1917 revolutions. The original umm acktually
What a stupidly pointless and irrelevant detail, definitely Trotsky
It's not so much that the western dates are wrong, but that Russia used a different calendar.
For example, in the old Russian calendar, the taking of the Winter Palace was in October 1917, but by the western calendar it was already November.
LOTS of quotes give the dates in the original Russian calendar.
@@fanaticaltechpriest1002 Very relevant given that the topic was Russia's relationship with modernity. Moron.
It's because Russia still used the Julian calendar and it's date differs by a week or so.
@@thaneofwhiterun3562 - By some 13 days.
13:40 Ah, history never repeats, but it does sometimes rhyme.
The swastika being replaced by the UA-cam logo is the greatest piece of irony and symbolism I’ve ever seen😂
What people don’t really understand is that the prime difference between Stalin and Trotsky geopolitically is that Trotsky believed in exporting the Revolution while Stalin wasn’t really that expansionist. His reasons for taking the Eastern European satellites was not because he wanted to spread communism, but because he wanted a buffer to keep Russia safe from western invasions.
Except for the Baltic states who were outright conquered and were made as full states in the Union.
Eastern Europe was basically a Meat Shield
Cody did mentioned that in the first video he did on What if Stalin never rose to power? I'm disappointed that he didn't put that fact here.
@@nickrustyson8124 yeah, just like us europeans were to america. With the difference being that USA also have 2 oceans
@@MyName-lq7rv And also to have a bigger coast on the baltics i belive?
OutKast: What's cooler than being cool?
Trotsky: *ICE COLD*
avery, my hero
Hahahaaha ice pick go brrrr
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT
@@chuckleshelicopterwigwamjo7315 HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY YAAAAAA
Avery go away
In Orwell's Defense he did show some corruption before Snowball [Trotsky] was exiled.
The Pigs all agreed to hoard the apples, Snowball [Trotsky] included. Snowball [Trotsky] also discouraged Boxer from crying over a dead man. Snowball [Trotsky] by all accounts was a fanatic.
However Animal Farm's view of the Russian Revolution was still rather skewed in favor of Snowball [Trotsky] making him into a martyr for the Socialist's Theology. Old Georgie was a socialist himself after all. Therefore his work cannot be used to criticize Socialism, despite that clearly being what Animal Farm is about!!
I love your replacement symbol for the Nazi Swastika, very funny.Your ending analysis is spot on.
2 things that I would like to clarify about Animal farm:
- In the book it is hinted that Snowball would be just as bad of a leader as Napoleon(the windmill plan, his zealotry about Animalism, the stolen milk ,etc..) .
-Orwell didn't release the book, that is a thing only a publishing company can do, and in fact was rejected numerous times because of the war alliance.
There was also Snowball agreeing with the plan that all apples from the apple tree would go to only the pigs. It was one of the few things he and Napoleon agreed on.
It's almost as if most people are bad at getting subtlety... Hmm...
Title: "What if Trotsky Came To Power Instead Of Stalin?"
Me who put Trotsky in power in HOI4: Been there, done that.
Is it given you some profit? Trotsky just gives faster wargoals and you have to trade best generals and ministers for Him...
I do like playing with Permanent Revolution + NKVD Primacy to turn Europe communist without firing a shot.
Slower wargoals are annoying, but I’m not a fan of world conquest anyways. Once I kill the Axis as USSR, it gets pretty boring.
@@mangoshi1251 same I usually just win ww2 conquer some time countries around me and give up
@@mangoshi1251 im doing that with road to 56, you should challange japan and the usa, and this comment was 2 months ago so idk if you done it, and also build up the nuke piles.
well, the New Soviet DLC comes out sooner, and good luck..
You could say that the alternative timeline would also contain many... Atroskities
The Quote from animal farm is “All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”
literally the US founding fathers
Brief point of order on Animal Farm: George Orwell wrote the Novella in 1945 - after he was no longer a Trotskyist. He stated specifically that it would have been better if the Russian Revolution had been influenced by the Kronstadt Uprising (which as was mentioned, Trotsky famously crushed).
TL;DR: We would be asking "what if Stalin came to power"
It's so astonishing how little orwell knew about the USSR. Like, holy fuck.
I'd like to see that Navel battle, the Bismarck class with the Iowa class...that'd be fun.
I would like to see Stalin’s and Trotsky’s mustache’s fight.
That would be amazing 😂
Lenin’s Mustache has entered the ring
Now this is what I'm talking about
I think trotsky's would win but only after his goatee intervenes
Remember, there was also Imperial Japan and a Soviet Russia that was VERY concerned about the security of their Siberian hinterland. It is possible that Trotsky would have gotten the USSR so deeply invested in supporting the Maoists in Asia that he might have just dug in and gone on the defensive in Europe. Admittedly, that is a huge "if" since he had little restraint. I also suspect that when the Reich invaded Yugoslavia, Trotsky would have decided that there was no choice but to intervene on behalf of their "ally" (the paternalistic Russian view of Balkan Slavs as their protectorate).
I don't believe Trotsky had a paternalistic Russian view as others did. His view of other peoples was very much ideologically based and sought a global rather than a regional framework.
@@Zorro9129 A good point to bear in mind.
The Reich wouldn't need to invade yugoslavia if they aren't at war with the Allies, which if Trotsky is in power, the allies will probably be on the side of the Nazis.
At that point, we might have seen the US supplying arms and fuel to Japan in a war against the Soviets in exchange for Japan curbing its ambitions in Southeast Asia and the Pacific islands. The US was very isolationist in the 1930s, but an expansionist Soviet Union might have been a bridge too far.
@@bluemarlin8138 That's just wild lmao
I love how you replace the swastika with the UA-cam logo. Nice touch