Comparing Two WW1 Swords
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- Опубліковано 7 бер 2024
- In this video, we take a look at two original swords from WW1. The U.S. M1913 "Patton" Cavalry Saber, and the French M-1882 Infantry Officers Sword. What compelled me to make this video is how they're both straight-bladed, saber-hilted, thrusting swords yet feel dramatically different in the hand. Let's see why!
#sword #hema #history #ww1 #fencing - Розваги
WW1 was such an interesting war. We had men on horseback in cavalry charges and by the end of the war they were fighting in the sky in planes. A very weird time in history and war technology improvement
In WWII the Germany army was around 70% unmotorized until the end of the war. WWII was still a war of horse mounted troops for the wehrmacht.
They were using planes by 1916 (the halfway mark). Same thing with tanks. Yes, they got newer and better tanks/planes as the war went on, but their introduction was 1916 at the absolute latest. Now if you want something really crazy, one of the first submachine guns, the MP-18, wasn't around until 1918. That's right, we figured out tanks, planes, and belt feds before we figured out smg's (an smg just being a machine gun that fires a pistol cartridge)
@@redoktopus3047 Yes but they didnt use a lot of cavalry. The horse was mostly used for dragging artillery and logistics.
With the German collapse of late 1918 they did some cavalry charges
No doubt. To be honest, Cav is never going to go away, be it horse back or mechanized. I do believe the last horseback cavalry charge(training) was Dec '41 for the US. Technology will evolve but shock and awe of cavalry will remain. Russians are using motorbike cavalry which seems to be working out decently.
Military Sabers are dope AF
Yes. I grow granddaddy purp and blue dream
These later period swords are so fascinating. The engineering, mathematics and precision that went into their design is incredible but it's so ironic they were produced at the point when swords were just about to become impractical in modern warfare. Kinda like designing the perfect castle on the same day that cannon technology becomes practical and common
Swords were still practical in WW1. A sword and pistol was a very effective combination for defending yourself in close spaces like a trench. The problem in the infantry, however, is only the officers carried swords. It made them a target, so they hung up their swords.
The cavalry, however, kept their swords since every enlisted man had a sword as well. Cavalry in general was significantly more useful than people think during the war.
@@Specter_1125 Good point. There are some really brutal looking WW1 melee weapons in my local museum that were used in the trenches for close combat. The examples they have are mostly horrible looking chair legs with nails and barbed wire attached, but I could imagine one of these elegant swords would be very useful in those circumstances
@@Specter_1125I always kinda wondered why there weren’t dedicated trench-raider teams with swords. guess the hard part was getting into the trench 😅
Castles and castle-like fortresses continued being built well after cannons became the predominant battlefield artillery. The walls just became thicker and shaped differently, but the general concept of big stone walls forming concentric layers of fortification continued on for a couple of hundred years after cannons became widespread.
@@Candlemancer Fair point. The thick stone walls and fortifications around my hometown got wrecked by artillery in the 17th Century but they chose to repair and rebuild them immediately after the conflict as they still had some practical purpose
Art deco vs. Brutalism, in sword form.
I think the 1882 is more Art Nuveaux than Deco. Totally Brutalism on the other
The entire philosophy behind the M1913 reminds me of a quote from The Fat Electrician. "This is America. We don't believe in self-defense, we believe in self-offense, it's way more effective"
For some reason i never thought Id see a fat electrician quote on a channel i associate with HEMA. But his quotes definitely fit in so many HEMA or just combat sports in general videos
I do wish gun owners in the country recognized the difference.
"Parry this, you filthy casual." -Patton, probably
That's so him
I should be better dressed and educated to watch these presentations. I learn things every time! Thank you!
It's cool to see an analysis of something that was always sitting around my house growing up! The 1913 is a really beautiful piece of work.
I hope your family still has it. Sounds like a really cool heirloom to have.
3:44 What's the difference between parry and opposition? I'm **really** enjoying your videos, btw. EDIT: I cant tell if you're saying "thrusts and opposition" or "thrusts in opposition."
thrust in opposition- you use your thrust to simultaneously put the opponent’s blade out of alignment. this allows you to strike and guard in the same action whereas a parry would have to be followed up by a riposte, which is not very feasible when you’re on a galloping horse.
that’s also why the cavalry saber is so heavy, it’s meant for decisive thrusts delivered on horseback.
Great answer. To build off that point about the heft: a sword with more mass will be harder to displace. In blade contact with a lighter sword, it will have a noticeable presence. On foot, being able to flit hither and tither with disengages are handy, but if you only have the window to make a singular thrust before you're past your foe, all that fliting isn't of much use. A hefty blade improves your odds of landing that thrust without being displaced before it lands, and the fatigue cost is mitigated by how intermittently you actually present the blade.
" Freedom Units " 🤣🤣
Pattons' System Allows No Parries ?
Sounds like " Old Blood & Guts "
"No direct parries are taught, because at the completion of a parry the enemy is already beyond reach of an attack. The surest parry is a disabled opponent."
"1st; it is a serious error to seek the blade of the adversary instead of disregarding it and seeking the touch, brushing the blade aside as a secondary consideration should it interfere. There is a strong tendency toward this seeking of the blade among men who have fenced under the old rules. It must be prohibited. On foot, at the walk, it is quite possible to make this sort of a parry and still have time to touch; but, mounted, at a gallop, a man who seeks the blade of his foe and parries it may escape uninjured, but so will the other man. The speed of the horses is such that the enemy will be out of reach before the trooper can make an effective lunge at him, whereas if he disregards the other's saber and lunges at his body, he will, in so doing, force his adversary's saber aside and transfix him. Moreover, the very idea of seeking the saber so as to parry it is taking a defensive frame of mind and is contrary to offensive cavalry spirit."
Saber Exercise 1914
So, basically, Patton’s sword work has more in common with the use of lances than traditional sword fighting
@@PJDAltamirus0425 And more in common with Polo. The Calvary Officer's Sport
one wonders how many times Patton stabbed his horse before coming up with that scabbard design
@@robinswordsit's definitely telling about the mindset regarding WW1, really interesting stuff!
fuck yes this is the shit im here for
That guard is practically a buckler.
Loving the longer form content.
Nice mustache bro🤛
I really appreciate these longer form videos. More detail to me is always better!
Love these longer form videos!
If you would be able to, I think that making an introductory video about each major type of medieval and renaisance weapon would be awesome! Talking about the super basic fundamentals of their weight, handling, and use while showing off examples would be amazing!
You could group similar ones together if that would be better:
Swords: Longsword, Arming sword, rapier, etc.
Axes: One handed, two handed, different head shapes, etc
Spears: Normal, boar spears, javelins, pikes, etc
Polearms: Pollaxes, Halberds, Bills, etc.
Shields: Heaters, targes, pavises, etc
Thanks for the excellent content! I really like your presence on UA-cam in the sword community and I hope you're having a good time!
The US one never did feel too good in my hand but I have funny hands.
I’m concerned about the amount of people that don’t know that sheaths for blades are not just a Japanese specific thing. When I talk about swords people always say “wait swords have sheaths, thought only katanas and Japanese stuff did”
The M1882 is a beauty! I hope to have one of my own, one day. Though it'll probably be a custom piece, not a perfect copy or antique.
You could probably get a decent antique for less than having it reproduced
@@robinswords Really? I didn't know. I shall have to do my due dilligence in this regard. Swords are great. But Swords for cheap are better! Thank you!
In short: the cavalry saber is also trying to be a lance
Not really a saber, more an estoc.
See also the Polish Konserz [nothing new under the sun] and the British 1908 which may well have/probably did influence Patton.
started watching your shorts somewhat recently and came seeking some longer videos to learn more about swords for the sake of better roleplaying my dnd character and discovered that i didn't know that swords were even used in ww1! that's so fascinating!! im for sure going to go through your channel and see what other cool stuff i can learn!
Love how large the handguard is on the 1913
Got distracted part way in by either a nasty finger nail bruise or leftover nail paint on your index fingy
They look majestic, and the little thumb hole is some adorable details
Keep up the good work
This makes me wonder how long and skinny a sabre's blade can be before we call it a rapier.
Can we please see you do a duo video with skallagrim?
Can you do a video on the Marine Corps M1859 NCO sword and the Marine Corps Officer's Mameluke saber? (unless you've already done that)
That officers sword is a thing of pure beauty, I think someday ill get something similar.
Fyi, thiere is an officers version m1913 which can be worn. The officer scabbard looks a lot like a pattern 1908.
According to the official manual the back edge of the Patton Saber should sharp for anti-riot use. Calvery was supposed to ride into the mob with the swords held back and the rear edge down to cut.
Can you do a comparison with the other US military swords from WW1 as well?
Thanks for the video. I'd love to be trained to fight with the M1882. That's a beautiful sword. Obviously, the one I'd want to use in war would depend on what my job was. As beautiful as they are, I'd also rather have a 1911 pistol than either sword if I must use a sidearm in combat.
A most excellent 'tache my good sir
Evening sir, this got me thinking about using only a one handed sword? especially in the early medieval era, or would it even be a good idea? might be a cool short for you to make, cheers!
While I had this antique sword on loan from a friend, and a mustache which makes me look like a British Army officer circa 1914, I wanted to capitalize on the opportunity to compare with one of its contemporaries. The sword, not the mustache.
The most beautiful cavalry sword i know of has to be the french Dragoon officer sabers.
This might be a dumb question, but in regards to cavalry swords I've always wondered something; once the mounted rider had managed to lance their target, how did they keep their saber? In my mind, I would assume that the sword would be removed from the rider's grip due to being lodged in the opponent's body while riding past, or should the rider maintain his grip, there would be some arm/shoulder injury occurring to the rider. How does that work?
I'm still waiting for a combat expert such as yourself and your other fellow people in your field to hopefully one day cover the sword and knife techniques used in the new Dune movies.
You should do more vids with your left face forward it's definitely your good side!
Where do you acquire your swords?
Kirby Alison + Skillagrim had a baby, and he's fine.
What type of fencing school/approach would be used for someone carrying that French sword?
I was on an elden ring binge and landed here. I'm staying. Subbed.
I recall some reviews of the Patton sword liked it but others disliked it. The dislikers said it'd snatch on an enemy and you'd be forced to drop it.
Would have joined military if they still had these
I came across and purchased a 1907 spanish puerto seguro sabre. Can you share your expertise on the history of it? It seems useless on foot and entirely used for thrusting. Thanks :)
My perennial opinion it would be amazing in an space scenario like legend of the galactic heros
Who is this distinguished gentleman
Gimme that 82! ❤❤❤
In real life, how good ( or bad ) were entrenching tools as 'weapons of last resort' during WW1 and WW2 ?
Where do you get your clothing?
Robinswords seriously looks like the type of guy who'd be a soldier in ww1
Could you explain what the fuller actually does or how it affects the blade
It allows you to take some weight out of the blade without reducing its strength. I think I've seen some people saying it actually *increases* the strength of the blade, but I don't know if that's true, or if I've misinterpreted them, or if they've misinterpreted someone else.
They funny thing to me, is that the american saber was designed after the Colt 1911 😅
Patton didn't do defense, only offense, huh? Anyone who knows how he led troops in battle isn't surprised by that.
They both look very stabby.
While I can never vote against my boy George, the M-1882 is indisputably superior in terms of *swag.*
Dwight? Why aren't you in a locker?!
The American 1902 saber is probably more comparable to the French 1882.
The French saber is a true fencing sword, whereas the M1882 is really just a hand lance.
*Slash slash stab slash parry stab*
Vs.
*Stab STAB stab Stab STAB STAB STAB*
You look like Harvey from stardew valley
Nice film and sword :) gretings from Krakow capitol polish sabre.... szablotłuk polski
Can something be a saber if if it's curved? What if it's a cute anime girl?
A cavalry sword is really just a sharp club. It's for whacking people with from a moving horse.
Would be nicer to see a comparison of the m1913 to its contemporaries in the British, French, Spanish, etc cavalries.
The real answer to why the Patton Saber is terrible is that Patton didn't know his head from his ass regarding sword design.
He also was still claiming a valiant charge of mounted men wielding swords would overcome machine gun fire even after the evidence of the Russo-Japanese war and well into WWI.
The patton sword isn't terrible though, it's purpose built. Patton himself wasn't the sole designer, but put post of the finishing touches as well as advocated the project substantially.
Based on that fingernail bruise and how long it takes for those SOBs to go away… according to my forensic analysis and experience with smashing my fingers, I’d say about a month ago, our boy here got hit in the fingertip with a sword super hard. 🧐
I think it was back in December actually. The hit was at the very base of the nail.
@@robinswords Ohhh yeah… they take so long to work themselves out lol
My sword is bigger than your sword
What's up with your fingernail?
Swordfighting
Even with gloves fingernails can get smushed.
Good I hate Patton
This is an imposter account
No, this is the real one.
These sabres were definitely not meant for combat by the time of WW1.
Incorrect. More true in the case of the 82, but still incorrect.
Peer cavalry charges only died out in WWI (in a big way, brrrt).
There were a few afterward, but they were useless against armored vehicles and trenches.
@@DanielMWJ Just because the most famous (and arguably most consequential) front in WWI was mostly trench warfare, it was not the only front. Cavalry still played a large role in the Middle East and the Eastern Fronts.
@@digitaljanus And even on the Western Front, cavalry charges were still important. Trench warfare was the pike wall of its era, very static, fairly inflexible and near impenetrable *until it isn't* and the lines break down, and then flanking by light cavalry becomes as devastating as it ever was.
The M-1882 is a standardization of the non-regulation swords that were in use by French Colonial Officers who had a very real expectation of needing to use them. It was carried into WW1 as a combat-tested design.
The M1913 was the result of Patton's time abroad studying swordsmanship in the French school. The design itself is a close match to the British 1908 Cavalry Sword.
There was an expectation of use for swords going into WW1. Regardless of how much any particular model was actually used, they were certainly still designed and issued with combat applications in mind.
The French sword has removable canvas so you can swap it out with the brand new, pristine, white canvas, should the enemies ever get too close.
You are taking someone else's work.
No, this is me. There are two imposter Facebook pages.
a good video. thx