As a non believer Ive followed this wonderful man Shabir Yusuf for some time. His unique clear intellect & reason combined with a genuine compassion for others gives me pause & hope in the knowledge men like him exist as a guide to the wonderful continued discussion that surrounds the experience we consider life. Very best wishes to you & your family Shabir & to those that support you. 👋 Whangarei New Zealand. 🌴🌞
Owais Khan Individual respect & admiration are independent of discerning thought, by definition to follow would only narrow the field of vision. Do not conflate the two 👍
I especially enjoyed the way he dealt with the Christian person. The atheists and agnostics were irritated when he spoke, and Shabir had the right to be also, given the divergence from the topic of conversation, but Br. Shabir had the knowledge and manners (mashaAllah) to quote a relevant scripture to him, make him feel valued, and then skilfully explained why the topic of conversation is relevant to what he (the Christian) just mentioned. It was a masterful recovery of a big spanner being thrown in the works.
Shabir is a very patient and articulate individual, able to logically present his argument. Greetings from the Netherlands and keep up the great works ✌️️
The best Islam Communicator of our time is back in speaker corner. We need to bring Shabir every week to speaker corner lets make a petition :) who's with me.
Shabir-One of the best speakers in HPSpeakers Corner- gentle, persuasive and convincing arguments-I wonder if it has got to do with the name Shabir 😅. . . Perhaps U have heard of another shabir- well-known Dr Shabir Ally of Canada. Salam.
I find it amazing how bro Shabir can manage a conversation with so many people chipping in and yet he responds to them so well. The best at the park for this. I wish someone had asked him what his criteria for a creator is or if he just said so anyway. Never the less an amazing conversation.
@@monkearmy2439 Very old comment but anyways, I don't but I like being hand-fed by particular person(s). Anything of value for you about this information?
Ustadh?! Bwahahaha!!! You lot deranged abdools truly lick the balls of anyone, who manages to dishonestly repack lotsa gobbledygook into coherent sounding sentences!!!
Eric Cartman "What's ironic is that my typing seems good enough to get your brown ass triggered!" Some ones got a racist hair up their bum, eh, kid? Sure you're not projecting this trigger thing on to me? "Now fook off and go eat a watermelon" Sounds American. Now i get it. ; ) (Some people, All emotion and no brains, commiserations mate ; )
amazing shabir. this is a great debate you have brilliantly accurately answers many questions in this debate. pls brother shabir continue your great efforts in clearing up misconceptions and ignorant views. you r one if the best debators in the park and we need u to continue your wonderful works... may the creator of the universe bless and reward u for all your efforts Ameen
Jazak Allah Khair Shabir Yusuf : So it is just as equally likely there is a creator or there is no creator, do you agree? Matt : Yes Shabir yusof : And how are we going to establish that? Matt : To establish they equally likely? Shabir Yusof : No, there is either a creator or there isn't Matt : Aa...I would say it's impossible Shabir Yusof :You'd say it's impossible, okay..I would suggest to you if we were to establish a criteria first and then seek the necessary evidence you will find the answer Matt : I still don't understand what you mean by simple criteria Me : 😄
Excellent man! He is 1 in a million! This brother intellectually dumbifies people and their nonsensical values and ignorant beliefs which they stand on so confidently. !
Wow very well done shabbir!!!! You was on fire 🔥 here!!! Shocking to see intelligent people not understanding basic things. They use the correct standards and understand in everyday life things but when it comes to religion or creator those standards and understanding and criteria is non existent It's like someone has thrown a cloth over there eyes and closed there hearing off. I think you should use examples which don't relate to religion then they will follow then at the end change the example back to creator etc
dear king you have come very close to the truth,Quran says we have set a veil over their(tragressors) eyes and hearing,they see but see not they hear but hear not.
When an Atheists claim "I dont know". They actually means they dont care to know. They care or they dont care. The truth is there is a creator for everthing.
Hm yes so true, and this goes for everything atheists basically say. You as a muslim are far better to explain to people what an atheist means than an atheist!
Hansel Und Gretel Ya that is absolutely right. Why dont an Atheist try to find the creator rather believing in self creation. How something could come out of nothing? How something could create itself? Just thing and challenge youself.
That looked tiring brother Shabir! Lol may Allah put barakah in everything you do. A slight suggestion insha'allah to save you some headache for next time :) Mr eye patch is wearing the criteria on his T shirt, which really gives you the entire podium. When you really dive into the argument for a creator, with a probabalistic framework, it really is game over. they've already given you 50% probability! 😂 Little did they know it's alot higher than that. There's only so much you can do anyway :( three different athiests with completely different positions. The man at the end used Ricky Gervais as a reference point, which is an interesting insight into their ideological formation.. Have a blessed week brothers :)
I wonder, since his shirt was referring to probability, what would the probability of a Creator that exists be? It definitely makes sense of the universe we are in and it gives a solution to the infinite regression problem, it gives everything a purpose and it can NEVER be proven wrong, I think the probability is pretty high because of those things alone.
I was the man wearing the T Shirt, I think the probability is VERY low indeed. There is absolutely NO reason to believe that we live in an existence that is natural to have had a super natural origin. The Theists are the ones in denial of reason.
Shabir is clearly on a complete different wavelength to these guys who are trying to act rational, reasonable and logical but are actually behaving in a short sited manor beacause they are pre determining the conclusion to shabirs very logical pathway of questions, as they are evidently afraid of what will be inevitably deduced
This atheist in green shirt came to speakers corner with veganism and Brother Mansur make a discussion with him and his friends. that day brother Shabir also make a discussion with other vegan. brother Shabir thank you for this discussion, lot of things i learned from this discussion, may Allah increase your knowledge and give you a long and healthy life Ameen.
Just my 2cents opinion:- God willing, they will understand that they each have to come up with their own criteria as Shabir criteria might be different. . To have a criteria, they would need to seek n have some knowledge. Spoon feeding can nvr have an impact on gettin people to seek knowledge.....
The fact that there is a God is a self-evident truth. He said he has no reason to believe that there is a God. I find that hard to believe. Another curious thing is the people who don't believe in God spend a lot of time talking about God LOL
I enjoyed talking to Shabir. He is very pleasant to talk to, calm and polite sand well mannered. As are the rest of the ATR team. I admit that I didn't argue very well at all but I would point out that I came to this argument unprepared and openly while I don't doubt that Shabir has argued this very subject many times before and draws on previous experience. The burden of proof is being put on me to demonstrate the non existence of something ...logically impossible if it does not exist. Requiring me to consider all evidence and with hold a conclusion until I have examined all the evidence is impossible if there is NO evidence. WHAT evidence is there required for me to consider ? I am expected to consider evidence that is not presented, that I do not know about and may not even exist ?! That puts me, as an individual who honestly does not believe there is a God, in an impossible situation.
Muslims would use the Qur'an as evidence. Its unique linguistic nature and beauty, the deep meanings that are extracted, and its inimitability. Whether you think that constitutes proof is up to you, but that's the evidence a Muslim would suggest first and foremost. Obviously, you'd have to read the book then, and put in some time and effort, perhaps read exegesis (tafsir), or watch videos of scholars explaining it. Reading means that it's going to be an intellectual approach. Nobody can present God to you, after all, and He's not going to contact you just so that you believe in His existence. It's an intellectual effort, and of course, a spiritual journey. From the Qur'an and hadith literature, and from the knowledge of our scholarly traditions, Muslims could formulate rational arguments that seek to prove the existence of God, and explain why the Islamic concept of God is true, while others are not. Again; an intellectual endeavor. The Qur'an can be read online. Translations are attempts to convey some of the meaning of the verses, but aren't considered "Qur'an". There's a search engine on the following site, with a variety of different translations: www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm#links And for a more in-depth analysis you could use this site: corpus.quran.com/ If you're interested in reading the arguments and articles that Islamic theologians propose, perhaps you'll find interesting reads on here: sunnianswers.wordpress.com/?s=pebbles I've linked an article that pertains to you and your questions, but there's a ton of great stuff on the site (if you're into that). Other than that, I'd tell you to keep an open mind, and heart, and reflect and ponder, and inshaAllah, at the very least, you'll get more of an appreciation for the religion of Islam. Take care!
Are you the eye patched guy ? Answering "if there's a god that he/she should be like x y & z that's my criteria since my criteria does not become true ie x y z evidence points false there's no god " isn't that a simple answer or are you afraid of the other arguments Shabir is going to put forward when you do this
I'm not afraid of any of the arguments Shabir uses or might put forward. Though I was confused by many of them. I understood very little of his argument to be honest. He repeatedly demanded that we establish a criteria first. I don't think there is one we can agree one. I CANNOT disprove a negative and religious believers CANNOT demonstrate the fact of a God. I think there is probably no God and the religious claim there definitely is one. Which of those positions do you think is more honest and more reasonable ? I'm not sure that your example is adequate either. I have no idea what criteria might describe the existence or non existence of a God as it does not appear to exist in reality. I cannot say God should be x, y and z.
And I promise, I am not trying to be deliberately awkward or evasive in arguing with you but I do not see HOW I can reasonably establish any criteria for demonstrating the existence or non existence of a God which I think probably does not exist.
MANN MANN I may be wrong but I think he intends the creator to set the criteria. The agnostics and atheists first have to allow for the possibility that the creator has communicated to us, via revelation, that criteria. They then should check / assess the revelation, Qur'an being one such evidence, before wearing illogical t- shirts ; ) Men or a man/woman cannot set the criteria as we are limited creatures but the Creator is unlimited. May Allah swt guide us all
Masha’Allah wonderful video....Thank you for uploading brother. I need some help and advise from brother Shabir, therefore is there aways I can contact him please?
Because their inbuilt bias and prejudice would force them to shut down discission as quick as possible. Eg: the guy who said "don't say holy books". So if the Creator communicated to certain humans and the revelation was documented, the fool has already said HE won't read it. If Shabir said the Qur'an is the criteria (which it is) these guys would have pulled a dozen dodgy hadith out of their manbags and gone off topic. Better to teach them basic logic. Baby steps. Peace
They finally realize that they're not been thinking enough as this much before about this thing that they considered as foolish thing which you can decline simply enough if it is really a foolish thing.
bro shabir i have noticed theres simple tricks to use to make the debate healthier bcoz i realized they were not getting ur point , ibstead u could put ur own example of criteria then every argument could be understood and u could save much time
awan dalu That is a weak analogy. The land is observable and it is reasonable to think that there may (or may not) be land ahead. You may have been to that land before etc. The land beneath the sea is also detectable too. Nothing about that is the same as the idea of a creator God or the lack of evidence for or against the existence of one.
digglyda Well, actually there are many detectable effects of the Creator. How about one: the existence of the prophets? It can be considered 'probable' evidence at least. Why would they topple with people of immense powers suffering immense tortures if something was not manipulating them? You'd probably say they were delusional or wanna be rulers but many of them won the battle and was able to spread their versions of god and never claimed to be the king though they have an empire.
Yeah, probably delusional is the simple answer. That or they were knowingly dishonest, sincere;y mistaken or suffering more chronic mental illness. You don't find it strange that an omniscient and omnipotent God would use individuals to spread the word of his divine truth knowing how unreliable and problematic that method is ? This God is supposed to be all powerful. He can supposedly do ANYTHING. The idea that he is going to use individuals as carriers for his message is outrageous. You can SEE how problematic that method is ? This God could impart knowledge directly to all quite easily ...but instead just uses individuals to do it ? That makes no sense.It is making disagreement inevitable.
digglyda Well, even if they're delusional note that they are spread separately through time. Something is causing the effect constantly. The result of their delusion and suffering and victoy has at least one similarities that all of them vouched for god. And about sending imperfect beings? I can explain it from scripture only that we're supposed to be tested here. The perfect beings you're indicating are already created and naturally they live perfectly by god. So if an imperfect being that have the options to choose between alternatives but limit conciously their choice for an unseen supreme entity is naturally be prized more by that entity which in this case is god.
digglyda God knows there will be disagreement. How we handle disagreement is part of the test. Yes, this life is a test. Send perfect angels, that humans would also find excuses not to follow? We humans follow role models even now. God knows this, so sends righteous men, prophets with proofs and evidence to convince his people that he is a prophet of God. AlhAmdulIllA
We are like a tornado of forces that coalesce into a collective organized life form based on flows of energy through matter. We are not a design, we are that evolved life or collective storm of organized chemical reactions much like the energies in the tides of the ocean, we are able to reproduce that very complex system or storm of energized relationships.
Then random things like flying pigs and fairies should be popped up out of nowhere. That's not happening. There is order in the universe and in us. We use that order to understand the world around us. Science, logic, order.
these people consider themselves to be intelligent but bro Shabir makes them realize how ignorant of knowledge they are in reality, I call it #intelligentjahilia
What I hate most of this superbeing BR Shabbir. is when he say's to all he was educating around him including myself here in South Africa when he say ; to round up and conclude ; May ALLAH grant him high place in Janah .
One attribute of the Creator would be the abilty to show him in a way that it would be evident to believe in his existence for anybody without any doubt.. If not then i presume he probably near 100% not exist. In short God have the bundle to proof on demand of anybody , anytime and in any place his existence in a way that anybody see the evidence he exist Easy like that .
One attribute of the Creator would be the abilty to show him in a way that it would be evident to believe in his existence for anybody without any doubt.. ------------------------------------ What you THINK, you got the brain for? Look for the right answer and do some research! Look for the right religion and do some research! No religious book is believed by all people, and no prophet is universally recognized. When our belief in God precedes any other religious belief, the evidence which produces such a belief must be universal and available to every rational being, whether committed or uncommitted to a particular religion. The Holy Qur'an offers the universe as evidence on the existence of its Creator. The material world, its celestial bodies, the earth, and the other planets, are viewed by Islam to be the main evidence of the Creator of matter and energy. The material world is observable by the atheist as well as by the believer, by the illiterate as well as by the scientists and philosopher. One may reflect on the formation of the heavenly bodies and the existence of the matter and energy without being committed to any particular religion or recognizing any religious book. It is very hard to accept the idea that matter or energy is infinitely old. When one says that matter or energy is infinitely old, one assumes that the material out of which the billions of stars were built, existed simultaneously. When we are aware that each star contains billions of tons of materials, and that the balance of the raw material is much more than the material which is contained in the stars and planets, we realize the improbability of such an idea. We cannot conceive that all these quantities of materials existed at once and that nothing of it was preceded by non-existence. To say that only a portion of the material is infinitely old, and that the other portions came to existence at a later stage, is to admit the need of a creator, because the inanimate material does not increase by self-reproduction. Only living beings are capable of multiplying by self-reproduction. To allow any gradual increase in the material quantity is to admit the need of a creator. You want to see and find God in a laboratory? The Atheists may ask "If the Almighty is Invisible, how can we be sure of His existence? How would an atheist believe in a God whom he cannot see? In order to believe in something, you do not necessarily have to see it. You believe in electricity, yet you cannot see it. You believe in it only because you see its products such as light, heat, etc. If this is sufficient to make you a believer in the existence of electricity, the great universe should be sufficient to every human being to believe in the existence of its Creator. The Creator of the universe must be Absolute and Unlimited. He encompasses the whole universe. He is Omnipresent and never absent from anywhere. With His Omnipresence, His visibility is not going to make us believe in Him or know Him. His visibility would be very destructive to us. Before we know Him with His Omnipresence, we would perish. His visibility would be blinding to every human being. Suppose that the air (which exists only in a very limited space) is visible. It would have a color, and we would not be able to see anything but the air because it fills the atmosphere. Should this be the case, we would not be able to acquire our food or water, nor would we be able to find roads or shelters. If the visibility of the air which exists only in the atmosphere of our little planet would be so blinding and destructive, what would be the case of the visibility of the Creator who encompasses the universe? When we think of this, we realize how fortunate we are not to be able to see God, our Creator. An example other than electricity. Your very existence is a great evidence on the existence of Adam and Eve, or let us say the first two human beings. You did not see Adam and Eve, but you believe that they existed. To make it more clear: You came through your parents. Your parents came through their parents, and your grandparents came through their parents, and so on. You may continue going back until you reach Adam and Eve. If you deny the existence of the first two human beings, you would be eliminating the first generation of their children. By eliminating the first generation, you eliminate the second and what is beyond it. Finally, you have to eliminate your own parents. Then you have to eliminate yourself. But you say to yourself: I cannot do that because I am here. Then you have to say: Adam and Eve were there. Even if Atheists say "evolution says there was no Adam and Eve etc" Still if you deny the existence of the first evolution beings, you would be eliminating the whole evolution! Simple common sense! www.al-islam.org/inquiries-about-islam-shaykh-muhammad-jawad-chirri/creator-universe
The brother was debating like 5 people altogether and held his own and kept his cool. May Allah preserve this brother and make him a means for guidance for others. These people were just soo super skeptical, and dismissive. If they woke up one morning to find out their parents were not there real biological parents, you could bet your last dollar they would ensure to investigate all avenues and leads of investigation to rule out the most plausible possibility from the least plausible in their search for the truth on the matter! The difference in searching would likely be they would have sincerity when investigating. Instead these people are like there’s too much evidence (texts saying the same thing) so they all must be wrong? Just because there’s a lot of theories around JFK’s assassination, does that mean there’s no possibility one could be true? Where’s the common sense and reason in that! The truth is this, they are ignorant and arrogant in the fact that unless God calls out to them directly from the heavens, they are not interested in finding him otherwise. Ignorance is bliss and they would rather live that life. They are simply not interested and would rather follow their whims and desires than any guidance provided by God. Know the promise of God is true, on Judgement Day you can’t claim you didn’t know about God, you will be responsible for your actions. Be warned.
God has to tell me personnelly he exist. Athiest that is the answers to the question. Why would anyone who says he is an atheist not need to hear directly from God. If he can speak to Mohammed, why not all? I am a Christian and I still need to help atheist with their own logic.
because devil can claim to be God and misguided people, as there are various other God's and religions that prove that. God only dictates his message through a individual appointed by him which are the prophets. Subjected conversation with God do not prove anything.
15.14] If We opened a gate in the heaven and they kept ascending through it, [15.15] still they would say: 'Our eyes were dazzled; truly, we must have been a bewitched people. ' *In fact the answer is found in the Qur'an سلام
Matt has studied so many religions but he lost the argument with the brown guy by pretending not to understand what establishment of criteria means. That shows that for ego people like Matt can pretend to not understand.
The problem with some of these people is that they appear not to know the difference between "evidence" and "proof". It might be worth agreeing on the definitions of these two terms at the start of a discussion. Yes, it might seem patronising to some, but it is an issue that keeps recurring. Some say, "I don't believe because I haven't seen any evidence.", when in fact they have seen plenty of evidence but have not assessed any of it, and therefore haven't established a proof one way or the other. As brother Shabir demonstrates, they don't even bother to figure out what criteria could be used to assess any evidence. Another asserts that it's unreasonable to expect someone to "assess all the evidence", but does that mean one can't assess some of the evidence? Couldn't one be smart and establish a criteria in order to be able to rule out some of the evidence, thus not needing to assess all of it? The lack of depth in these guys' approach is quite disappointing really. As Br. Shabir shows in this exchange, they rely on authority and don't go beyond that.
You want "experiential evidence". You need to realise that evidence based on experience isn't something we rely on to try and convince others of our position. However, to help you along with your reasoning process: if you're anything like me, i.e. human (and I have no reason to believe otherwise based on my own experiences), I would reasonably confidently assume you haven't had high-level discussions with inanimate objects or advanced AI, so based on your own experiences you could reasonably confidently assume that I am human.
Roman Ali If you don't notice the difference between what thought says about reality,and how you find reality to actualy be,you won't notice your innate peace and freedom.
Alhamdulillah, there is no conflict between my thoughts and reality, so I am at peace. I agree with you that if there is a conflict, one will not be (or should not be) at peace. Not sure what you mean by "innate peace", but I'll just treat it as peace. I'm also not sure what you mean by freedom; I don't see how the term "freedom" is relevant here, but let's ignore that as I get the gist of what you're saying. I prefer verbal communication to comments, and I don't think we'll be able to have that, so let's just end here. Thanks.
After 47:00 minutes the atheist conclusion: he believes that there're no ways to prove god exist or not exist, it's impossible, so he would never follow any religion. And he doesn't have any criterias which we can try to find those criteria to him to prove god exist. So.. The discussion won't move forward at all. Does that mean I dont need to discuss with an atheist all?
have to establish certain principles first, otherwise it's a waste of time to discuss with certain kinds of people because they move around too much. once u establish the criteria, they can't jump around anymore.
As a non believer Ive followed this wonderful man Shabir Yusuf for some time. His unique clear intellect & reason combined with a genuine compassion for others gives me pause & hope in the knowledge men like him exist as a guide to the wonderful continued discussion that surrounds the experience we consider life. Very best wishes to you & your family Shabir & to those that support you. 👋 Whangarei New Zealand. 🌴🌞
Peter Buka Tuhinga thank you for your kind words May the creator guide you to goodness
Then you should also follow what he is saying.
Owais Khan Individual respect & admiration are independent of discerning thought, by definition to follow would only narrow the field of vision. Do not conflate the two 👍
Peter Buka Tuhinga you know they never question their beliefes by the answers they give.
Aaaamin
The way Shabir respectfully shuts down the unreasonable and rude is such an amazing process. what a gentle well mannered human this man!
I especially enjoyed the way he dealt with the Christian person. The atheists and agnostics were irritated when he spoke, and Shabir had the right to be also, given the divergence from the topic of conversation, but Br. Shabir had the knowledge and manners (mashaAllah) to quote a relevant scripture to him, make him feel valued, and then skilfully explained why the topic of conversation is relevant to what he (the Christian) just mentioned. It was a masterful recovery of a big spanner being thrown in the works.
Shabir is a very patient and articulate individual, able to logically present his argument. Greetings from the Netherlands and keep up the great works ✌️️
I am in awe of this guy Shabir Yusuf his mannerism, professionalism and knowledge.
The best Islam Communicator of our time is back in speaker corner. We need to bring Shabir every week to speaker corner lets make a petition :) who's with me.
Me :)
steeven coogan
Me tooooo... 👍
steve coogan Why put your-self down calling yourself a muslim,your much more than that.
HISmercies nbounties no one has ever met a muslim,because a" muslim" is a concept.you cant be a concept
HISmercies nbounties none of the concepts are true
Shabir is too smart for these guys.
Subhanallah. Shabir on BEAST MODE
Shabir-One of the best speakers in HPSpeakers Corner- gentle, persuasive and convincing arguments-I wonder if it has got to do with the name Shabir 😅. . . Perhaps U have heard of another shabir- well-known Dr Shabir Ally of Canada. Salam.
Wassalaam
MashaAllah
its always privilege to hear brother Shabir. One of the most vibrant and rational speaker out there. May Allah bless you for your good work.
I find it amazing how bro Shabir can manage a conversation with so many people chipping in and yet he responds to them so well. The best at the park for this. I wish someone had asked him what his criteria for a creator is or if he just said so anyway. Never the less an amazing conversation.
L K
I think for Shabir criteria is set by The Creator because that will make it objective.
Well, he's apparently clear about this. He doesn't like to 'spoon-feed'.
@@WhiteGeared you like being spoon fed ?
@@monkearmy2439 Very old comment but anyways, I don't but I like being hand-fed by particular person(s). Anything of value for you about this information?
Welcome back ustadh shabir Yusuf give my salaam to the rest of team inshaAllah
Wassalaam
Ustadh?! Bwahahaha!!! You lot deranged abdools truly lick the balls of anyone, who manages to dishonestly repack lotsa gobbledygook into coherent sounding sentences!!!
Eric Cartman Ironically you can barely type a coherent sentence.
mikerevs34
What's ironic is that my typing seems good enough to get your brown ass triggered!... Now fook off and go eat a watermelon!!!
Eric Cartman
"What's ironic is that my typing seems good enough to get your brown ass triggered!"
Some ones got a racist hair up their bum, eh, kid?
Sure you're not projecting this trigger thing on to me?
"Now fook off and go eat a watermelon"
Sounds American. Now i get it. ; ) (Some people, All emotion and no brains, commiserations mate ; )
amazing shabir. this is a great debate you have brilliantly accurately answers many questions in this debate. pls brother shabir continue your great efforts in clearing up misconceptions and ignorant views. you r one if the best debators in the park and we need u to continue your wonderful works... may the creator of the universe bless and reward u for all your efforts Ameen
I like how brother shabeer show him the difference between knowledge and ignorance, bless you brother shabeer.
Mashallah this is how you have a discussion.
Thank you Brother
"Okay fair enough you are entitled to your opinion" 🤣
2 yrs later, and this is still so awesome ! :D
He's like playing them like a puppet master , ..it turned into a lecture :D
You are amazing brother Shabir.. May Allah azza wa jalla bless you always..
Thank you for the upload. May Allah give you from his best knowledge for sharing your knowledge with us.
Ameen
Brilliant. I love learning from you, and many brothers, in the park
Brother Shabir is on fire. Mash Allah. That's how you do dawah. Allah Hu Akbar.
yes you're right Ameen
love brother Shabir wallah! May Allah grant him jannah
Jazak Allah Khair
Shabir Yusuf : So it is just as equally likely there is a creator or there is no creator, do you agree?
Matt : Yes
Shabir yusof : And how are we going to establish that?
Matt : To establish they equally likely?
Shabir Yusof : No, there is either a creator or there isn't
Matt : Aa...I would say it's impossible
Shabir Yusof :You'd say it's impossible, okay..I would suggest to you if we were to establish a criteria first and then seek the necessary evidence you will find the answer
Matt : I still don't understand what you mean by simple criteria
Me : 😄
amazing discussion brother Shabir , jazak Allah khair , may Allah bless you long age with good health and guide you to do good deeds .
sounds very reasonable when you listen to shabir's conversation he stimulate your brain and lead you to think logically !
Masha Allah bless your brother shabiiiiir
Excellent man! He is 1 in a million!
This brother intellectually dumbifies people and their nonsensical values and ignorant beliefs which they stand on so confidently. !
Wow very well done shabbir!!!! You was on fire 🔥 here!!! Shocking to see intelligent people not understanding basic things.
They use the correct standards and understand in everyday life things but when it comes to religion or creator those standards and understanding and criteria is non existent
It's like someone has thrown a cloth over there eyes and closed there hearing off.
I think you should use examples which don't relate to religion then they will follow then at the end change the example back to creator etc
dear king you have come very close to the truth,Quran says we have set a veil over their(tragressors) eyes and hearing,they see but see not they hear but hear not.
*_A great channel to learn simple logic with Shabir Yusuf._*
ALLTRUTHREVEALED channel should get way more subscribers !!!! Shabir is LIKE ALWAYS on another level!
MIND BLOWING.. RATIONALITY
SHABBIR.. BHAI.. GREAT..JOB
Thank you so much 😀
I can't believe it took 47 minutes for someone to ask how would be establish a criteria?
And finally dont get any answer at all
Ma sha Allah tabark Allah :)
The flow of energy interacting with matter is the creating process of life, no gods required.
where the energy and matter came from?
Masha Allah satu perkongsian ilmu yg sgt bernas...salam persaudaran dr kami d malaysia...smoga Allah swt merahmati sdra shabir yusof dan team atr.
Assalamualaikum....I love your approach ..brother Shabir...
When an Atheists claim "I dont know". They actually means they dont care to know. They care or they dont care. The truth is there is a creator for everthing.
Hm yes so true, and this goes for everything atheists basically say. You as a muslim are far better to explain to people what an atheist means than an atheist!
Hansel Und Gretel
Ya that is absolutely right. Why dont an Atheist try to find the creator rather believing in self creation. How something could come out of nothing? How something could create itself? Just thing and challenge youself.
The creator is nature.
Rikske Patat nature is the creation
That looked tiring brother Shabir! Lol may Allah put barakah in everything you do.
A slight suggestion insha'allah to save you some headache for next time :) Mr eye patch is wearing the criteria on his T shirt, which really gives you the entire podium. When you really dive into the argument for a creator, with a probabalistic framework, it really is game over. they've already given you 50% probability! 😂 Little did they know it's alot higher than that.
There's only so much you can do anyway :( three different athiests with completely different positions. The man at the end used Ricky Gervais as a reference point, which is an interesting insight into their ideological formation..
Have a blessed week brothers :)
Jazakallah brother
I wonder, since his shirt was referring to probability, what would the probability of a Creator that exists be? It definitely makes sense of the universe we are in and it gives a solution to the infinite regression problem, it gives everything a purpose and it can NEVER be proven wrong, I think the probability is pretty high because of those things alone.
I was the man wearing the T Shirt, I think the probability is VERY low indeed.
There is absolutely NO reason to believe that we live in an existence that is natural to have had a super natural origin.
The Theists are the ones in denial of reason.
This is what the Speaker Corner use for :)
Shabir is the best ☪️🕋☪️
I thought he was Abdul Rahman Green
Esoteric Knowledge lolzzzz...
Esoteric Knowledge i think his name is Abdul Raheem Green the one u r referring to
Two things i would like to see is Shabir coming to speakers corner every week and formal debates. Inshallah it happens.
Awesome shabir
MashaAllah ❣️ what an intelligent brother, he's a gem. BarakAllah feek.
مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَا قُوَّةَ إِلَّا بِاللَّهِ ۚ
Shabir is clearly on a complete different wavelength to these guys who are trying to act rational, reasonable and logical but are actually behaving in a short sited manor beacause they are pre determining the conclusion to shabirs very logical pathway of questions, as they are evidently afraid of what will be inevitably deduced
Subscribed and turned on 'alert' after this video.
Pleased give brother shabir a new ball.He always smashingly them out of the park for sixes.God guide us all.big up shabs
Shabir top man ....always making others looks like fools and ignorant.......nobody can swim with him
Shabbir bhai laying down smacks downs 🔥🔥🔥
Shabir voice and talking style same as my chemistry teacher! :)
I am a Muslim to Allah.
This atheist in green shirt came to speakers corner with veganism and Brother Mansur make a discussion with him and his friends. that day brother Shabir also make a discussion with other vegan. brother Shabir thank you for this discussion, lot of things i learned from this discussion, may Allah increase your knowledge and give you a long and healthy life Ameen.
sham va Ameen
Just my 2cents opinion:-
God willing, they will understand that they each have to come up with their own criteria as Shabir criteria might be different. .
To have a criteria, they would need to seek n have some knowledge.
Spoon feeding can nvr have an impact on gettin people to seek knowledge.....
that is what actually shabir intended. people stop being blindfaith.
Wow that man shaking his head
shabir answering cat in the box at 45:01 stunt matt for a while
The fact that there is a God is a self-evident truth. He said he has no reason to believe that there is a God. I find that hard to believe. Another curious thing is the people who don't believe in God spend a lot of time talking about God LOL
I enjoyed talking to Shabir. He is very pleasant to talk to, calm and polite sand well mannered. As are the rest of the ATR team.
I admit that I didn't argue very well at all but I would point out that I came to this argument unprepared and openly while I don't doubt that Shabir has argued this very subject many times before and draws on previous experience.
The burden of proof is being put on me to demonstrate the non existence of something ...logically impossible if it does not exist.
Requiring me to consider all evidence and with hold a conclusion until I have examined all the evidence is impossible if there is NO evidence.
WHAT evidence is there required for me to consider ?
I am expected to consider evidence that is not presented, that I do not know about and may not even exist ?!
That puts me, as an individual who honestly does not believe there is a God, in an impossible situation.
Muslims would use the Qur'an as evidence. Its unique linguistic nature and beauty, the deep meanings that are extracted, and its inimitability. Whether you think that constitutes proof is up to you, but that's the evidence a Muslim would suggest first and foremost. Obviously, you'd have to read the book then, and put in some time and effort, perhaps read exegesis (tafsir), or watch videos of scholars explaining it. Reading means that it's going to be an intellectual approach. Nobody can present God to you, after all, and He's not going to contact you just so that you believe in His existence. It's an intellectual effort, and of course, a spiritual journey. From the Qur'an and hadith literature, and from the knowledge of our scholarly traditions, Muslims could formulate rational arguments that seek to prove the existence of God, and explain why the Islamic concept of God is true, while others are not. Again; an intellectual endeavor. The Qur'an can be read online. Translations are attempts to convey some of the meaning of the verses, but aren't considered "Qur'an". There's a search engine on the following site, with a variety of different translations: www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm#links And for a more in-depth analysis you could use this site: corpus.quran.com/ If you're interested in reading the arguments and articles that Islamic theologians propose, perhaps you'll find interesting reads on here: sunnianswers.wordpress.com/?s=pebbles I've linked an article that pertains to you and your questions, but there's a ton of great stuff on the site (if you're into that). Other than that, I'd tell you to keep an open mind, and heart, and reflect and ponder, and inshaAllah, at the very least, you'll get more of an appreciation for the religion of Islam. Take care!
Are you the eye patched guy ? Answering "if there's a god that he/she should be like x y & z that's my criteria since my criteria does not become true ie x y z evidence points false there's no god "
isn't that a simple answer or are you afraid of the other arguments Shabir is going to put forward when you do this
I'm not afraid of any of the arguments Shabir uses or might put forward. Though I was confused by many of them.
I understood very little of his argument to be honest. He repeatedly demanded that we establish a criteria first.
I don't think there is one we can agree one.
I CANNOT disprove a negative and religious believers CANNOT demonstrate the fact of a God.
I think there is probably no God and the religious claim there definitely is one.
Which of those positions do you think is more honest and more reasonable ?
I'm not sure that your example is adequate either. I have no idea what criteria might describe the existence or non existence of a God as it does not appear to exist in reality. I cannot say God should be x, y and z.
And I promise, I am not trying to be deliberately awkward or evasive in arguing with you but I do not see HOW I can reasonably establish any criteria for demonstrating the existence or non existence of a God which I think probably does not exist.
XaeeD What are the esoteric teachings,are you open minded enough to except the sufi mystisism
Assalamu alaikum
Wassalaam
Masha Allah 4 videos came from this Sunday..Are there more ??
So many boss moves..
Shabir you should not allow heckling , forget the crowd and pay attention to james
Shabir respectfully yusuf
At least Shabir can give the criteria to them.its like the conversation going nowhere.
MANN MANN I may be wrong but I think he intends the creator to set the criteria.
The agnostics and atheists first have to allow for the possibility that the creator has communicated to us, via revelation, that criteria. They then should check / assess the revelation, Qur'an being one such evidence, before wearing illogical t- shirts ; )
Men or a man/woman cannot set the criteria as we are limited creatures but the Creator is unlimited.
May Allah swt guide us all
"GOD", The creator of everything and everyone is around us always and everywhere, it's name is Nature.
No not Nature what/ and who made this ''Nature'' ?
Nature itself, with the Big Bang as the core.
What was before the big bang ?
Nothing. Nada.
Rikske Patat
There you go..so nature can't be god ;)
3:00 !! 15:00 !! 20:30 !! 44:20 !!
Masha’Allah wonderful video....Thank you for uploading brother. I need some help and advise from brother Shabir, therefore is there aways I can contact him please?
That tills me that people choose not to know deliberately
Brother Shabir, why don’t you give them an example of a criteria to make them understand from the beginning?
Because their inbuilt bias and prejudice would force them to shut down discission as quick as possible.
Eg: the guy who said "don't say holy books".
So if the Creator communicated to certain humans and the revelation was documented, the fool has already said HE won't read it.
If Shabir said the Qur'an is the criteria (which it is) these guys would have pulled a dozen dodgy hadith out of their manbags and gone off topic.
Better to teach them basic logic.
Baby steps.
Peace
i love shabir for the sake of Allah
Is he Abdurrahim Green's brother 😂?
They just don't want to believe
Ok ok ok .... What?! Wait.. no God? Hmmm... It's all wrong! God is in all of us, it's all a game of words and actions
For a religious dude he's good.
They finally realize that they're not been thinking enough as this much before about this thing that they considered as foolish thing which you can decline simply enough if it is really a foolish thing.
Lots of people arguing without knowledge
canamotion knowledge is not TRUTH
bro shabir i have noticed theres simple tricks to use to make the debate healthier bcoz i realized they were not getting ur point , ibstead u could put ur own example of criteria then every argument could be understood and u could save much time
and try to use few words and simple wards
( establish ) Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind.(QS Ar Ruum: 30) (QS Saba' :21)
"land ho...mate!!"
"I don't have reason to believe there is land"
"Mate, basically the sea is land covered by water".
awan dalu That is a weak analogy.
The land is observable and it is reasonable to think that there may (or may not) be land ahead. You may have been to that land before etc.
The land beneath the sea is also detectable too.
Nothing about that is the same as the idea of a creator God or the lack of evidence for or against the existence of one.
digglyda Well, actually there are many detectable effects of the Creator.
How about one: the existence of the prophets? It can be considered 'probable' evidence at least.
Why would they topple with people of immense powers suffering immense tortures if something was not manipulating them?
You'd probably say they were delusional or wanna be rulers but many of them won the battle and was able to spread their versions of god and never claimed to be the king though they have an empire.
Yeah, probably delusional is the simple answer. That or they were knowingly dishonest, sincere;y mistaken or suffering more chronic mental illness.
You don't find it strange that an omniscient and omnipotent God would use individuals to spread the word of his divine truth knowing how unreliable and problematic that method is ?
This God is supposed to be all powerful. He can supposedly do ANYTHING. The idea that he is going to use individuals as carriers for his message is outrageous. You can SEE how problematic that method is ?
This God could impart knowledge directly to all quite easily ...but instead just uses individuals to do it ?
That makes no sense.It is making disagreement inevitable.
digglyda Well, even if they're delusional note that they are spread separately through time. Something is causing the effect constantly. The result of their delusion and suffering and victoy has at least one similarities that all of them vouched for god.
And about sending imperfect beings? I can explain it from scripture only that we're supposed to be tested here.
The perfect beings you're indicating are already created and naturally they live perfectly by god.
So if an imperfect being that have the options to choose between alternatives but limit conciously their choice for an unseen supreme entity is naturally be prized more by that entity which in this case is god.
digglyda
God knows there will be disagreement. How we handle disagreement is part of the test. Yes, this life is a test.
Send perfect angels, that humans would also find excuses not to follow?
We humans follow role models even now. God knows this, so sends righteous men, prophets with proofs and evidence to convince his people that he is a prophet of God.
AlhAmdulIllA
Please ask Br Shabbir to get in touch with me, I lost his number accidentally.
We are like a tornado of forces that coalesce into a collective organized life form based on flows of energy through matter. We are not a design, we are that evolved life or collective storm of organized chemical reactions much like the energies in the tides of the ocean, we are able to reproduce that very complex system or storm of energized relationships.
Then random things like flying pigs and fairies should be popped up out of nowhere.
That's not happening.
There is order in the universe and in us. We use that order to understand the world around us.
Science, logic, order.
these people consider themselves to be intelligent but bro Shabir makes them realize how ignorant of knowledge they are in reality, I call it #intelligentjahilia
What I hate most of this superbeing BR Shabbir. is when he say's to all he was educating around him including myself here in South Africa when he say ; to round up and conclude ; May ALLAH grant him high place in Janah .
One attribute of the Creator would be the abilty to show him in a way that it would be evident to believe in his existence for anybody without any doubt..
If not then i presume he probably near 100% not exist. In short God have the bundle to proof on demand of anybody , anytime and in any place his existence in a way that anybody see the evidence he exist
Easy like that .
One attribute of the Creator would be the abilty to show him in a way that it would be evident to believe in his existence for anybody without any doubt..
------------------------------------
What you THINK, you got the brain for?
Look for the right answer and do some research!
Look for the right religion and do some research!
No religious book is believed by all people, and no prophet is universally recognized.
When our belief in God precedes any other religious belief, the evidence which produces such a belief must be universal and available to every rational being, whether committed or uncommitted to a particular religion.
The Holy Qur'an offers the universe as evidence on the existence of its Creator. The material world, its celestial bodies, the earth, and the other planets, are viewed by Islam to be the main evidence of the Creator of matter and energy.
The material world is observable by the atheist as well as by the believer, by the illiterate as well as by the scientists and philosopher. One may reflect on the formation of the heavenly bodies and the existence of the matter and energy without being committed to any particular religion or recognizing any religious book.
It is very hard to accept the idea that matter or energy is infinitely old.
When one says that matter or energy is infinitely old, one assumes that the material out of which the billions of stars were built, existed simultaneously. When we are aware that each star contains billions of tons of materials, and that the balance of the raw material is much more than the material which is contained in the stars and planets, we realize the improbability of such an idea. We cannot conceive that all these quantities of materials existed at once and that nothing of it was preceded by non-existence.
To say that only a portion of the material is infinitely old, and that the other portions came to existence at a later stage, is to admit the need of a creator, because the inanimate material does not increase by self-reproduction. Only living beings are capable of multiplying by self-reproduction. To allow any gradual increase in the material quantity is to admit the need of a creator.
You want to see and find God in a laboratory?
The Atheists may ask "If the Almighty is Invisible, how can we be sure of His existence? How would an atheist believe in a God whom he cannot see?
In order to believe in something, you do not necessarily have to see it. You believe in electricity, yet you cannot see it. You believe in it only because you see its products such as light, heat, etc. If this is sufficient to make you a believer in the existence of electricity, the great universe should be sufficient to every human being to believe in the existence of its Creator.
The Creator of the universe must be Absolute and Unlimited. He encompasses the whole universe. He is Omnipresent and never absent from anywhere. With His Omnipresence, His visibility is not going to make us believe in Him or know Him. His visibility would be very destructive to us. Before we know Him with His Omnipresence, we would perish. His visibility would be blinding to every human being.
Suppose that the air (which exists only in a very limited space) is visible. It would have a color, and we would not be able to see anything but the air because it fills the atmosphere.
Should this be the case, we would not be able to acquire our food or water, nor would we be able to find roads or shelters. If the visibility of the air which exists only in the atmosphere of our little planet would be so blinding and destructive, what would be the case of the visibility of the Creator who encompasses the universe? When we think of this, we realize how fortunate we are not to be able to see God, our Creator.
An example other than electricity.
Your very existence is a great evidence on the existence of Adam and Eve, or let us say the first two human beings. You did not see Adam and Eve, but you believe that they existed.
To make it more clear: You came through your parents. Your parents came through their parents, and your grandparents came through their parents, and so on. You may continue going back until you reach Adam and Eve. If you deny the existence of the first two human beings, you would be eliminating the first generation of their children. By eliminating the first generation, you eliminate the second and what is beyond it. Finally, you have to eliminate your own parents.
Then you have to eliminate yourself. But you say to yourself: I cannot do that because I am here. Then you have to say: Adam and Eve were there.
Even if Atheists say "evolution says there was no Adam and Eve etc" Still if you deny the existence of the first evolution beings, you would be eliminating the whole evolution!
Simple common sense!
www.al-islam.org/inquiries-about-islam-shaykh-muhammad-jawad-chirri/creator-universe
Atheist don't really want to know if there's a God or not.
21 mins the guy says don't mention holy books. "10,000 of them".
Then has to admit he pulled that number out of his proverbial. hahaha
At least he use a word "probably" on his shirt...that mean 100% he not sure fully "no God"...may be "got God"..
They fall into the traps 😂
The brother was debating like 5 people altogether and held his own and kept his cool. May Allah preserve this brother and make him a means for guidance for others.
These people were just soo super skeptical, and dismissive. If they woke up one morning to find out their parents were not there real biological parents, you could bet your last dollar they would ensure to investigate all avenues and leads of investigation to rule out the most plausible possibility from the least plausible in their search for the truth on the matter! The difference in searching would likely be they would have sincerity when investigating.
Instead these people are like there’s too much evidence (texts saying the same thing) so they all must be wrong? Just because there’s a lot of theories around JFK’s assassination, does that mean there’s no possibility one could be true? Where’s the common sense and reason in that!
The truth is this, they are ignorant and arrogant in the fact that unless God calls out to them directly from the heavens, they are not interested in finding him otherwise. Ignorance is bliss and they would rather live that life. They are simply not interested and would rather follow their whims and desires than any guidance provided by God.
Know the promise of God is true, on Judgement Day you can’t claim you didn’t know about God, you will be responsible for your actions. Be warned.
The criteria ..sifat 20...ujud qidam baqa.....
God has to tell me personnelly he exist. Athiest that is the answers to the question.
Why would anyone who says he is an atheist not need to hear directly from God.
If he can speak to Mohammed, why not all?
I am a Christian and I still need to help atheist with their own logic.
because devil can claim to be God and misguided people, as there are various other God's and religions that prove that. God only dictates his message through a individual appointed by him which are the prophets. Subjected conversation with God do not prove anything.
15.14] If We opened a gate in the heaven and they kept ascending through it,
[15.15] still they would say: 'Our eyes were dazzled; truly, we must have been a bewitched people. '
*In fact the answer is found in the Qur'an
سلام
Matt has studied so many religions but he lost the argument with the brown guy by pretending not to understand what establishment of criteria means. That shows that for ego people like Matt can pretend to not understand.
The problem with some of these people is that they appear not to know the difference between "evidence" and "proof". It might be worth agreeing on the definitions of these two terms at the start of a discussion. Yes, it might seem patronising to some, but it is an issue that keeps recurring.
Some say, "I don't believe because I haven't seen any evidence.", when in fact they have seen plenty of evidence but have not assessed any of it, and therefore haven't established a proof one way or the other. As brother Shabir demonstrates, they don't even bother to figure out what criteria could be used to assess any evidence.
Another asserts that it's unreasonable to expect someone to "assess all the evidence", but does that mean one can't assess some of the evidence? Couldn't one be smart and establish a criteria in order to be able to rule out some of the evidence, thus not needing to assess all of it? The lack of depth in these guys' approach is quite disappointing really.
As Br. Shabir shows in this exchange, they rely on authority and don't go beyond that.
Roman Ali agreed well said Bro
Roman Ali Ok Where is the experiential evidence that you are a human being?
You want "experiential evidence". You need to realise that evidence based on experience isn't something we rely on to try and convince others of our position.
However, to help you along with your reasoning process: if you're anything like me, i.e. human (and I have no reason to believe otherwise based on my own experiences), I would reasonably confidently assume you haven't had high-level discussions with inanimate objects or advanced AI, so based on your own experiences you could reasonably confidently assume that I am human.
Roman Ali If you don't notice the difference between what thought says about reality,and how you find reality to actualy be,you won't notice your innate peace and freedom.
Alhamdulillah, there is no conflict between my thoughts and reality, so I am at peace.
I agree with you that if there is a conflict, one will not be (or should not be) at peace. Not sure what you mean by "innate peace", but I'll just treat it as peace. I'm also not sure what you mean by freedom; I don't see how the term "freedom" is relevant here, but let's ignore that as I get the gist of what you're saying.
I prefer verbal communication to comments, and I don't think we'll be able to have that, so let's just end here. Thanks.
After 47:00 minutes the atheist conclusion: he believes that there're no ways to prove god exist or not exist, it's impossible, so he would never follow any religion. And he doesn't have any criterias which we can try to find those criteria to him to prove god exist. So.. The discussion won't move forward at all. Does that mean I dont need to discuss with an atheist all?
The name of channel is ALL truth and they try to convince all others about islamm being the best...
have to establish certain principles first, otherwise it's a waste of time to discuss with certain kinds of people because they move around too much. once u establish the criteria, they can't jump around anymore.
I can prove there is no santa claus,,,, im still paying my debt from last fucking year,! and I can tell you,, its not to santa,,, but to Santander!!
he is just missing Wilson.
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