Neither hero can die because 100% enrage and battle trance uptime. Ursa can probably actually hit buildings while troll is stuck hitting something near him
If it gets to late game troll wins 100%, just need to pump up ult duration and lower base attack time in melee form, eventually they will get so many itens that the damage will be insane
At that point tho if the trolls group up, i think they just win. Like if all of them bought a halberd for each ursa and used it after getting the fervor stacks up, the ursas will just die cause they cant attack to lifesteal
I'm gonna go with Troll just because he is by design a harder carry, and his upgrades in booster will help with thatt. Also his ulti stops him from dying where as ursa's just makes it harder to kill him.
@9:00 about stack_stun_count property. Dota devs wrote in a blog that when adding new abilities they take old abilities that are similar and tweak them just a bit. I have a feeling that Ursa Fury Swipes and Slardar bash are kind of similar this way, Slardar having the stun property activated. Interesting discovery!
It’s actually an ages old question. I’ve always thought Troll was better late game especially back when he had a bash on his Q Those two heroes are thematically similar as they’re both known as the kings of 1vs1 Id really like to see more of those type of videos
They're both gonna be unkillable, so it's gonna come down to who can kill towers, so with optimal play troll. Troll is better that pushing, but I'm not 100% sure how the AI works? He could just infinitely be stucking chasing an invisicble ursa. But that's the only case I can see ursa possibly winnning. In normal dota troll wins the match up, and I don't see any huge advantage ursa would get here to counteract it. Where as troll can be invisible, lower his base attack time indefinitely, and attack multiple targets with shard. Also troll's duration on invincibilty scales faster. So I give 90% odds to troll
Honestly, Baumi, at this point, I'm just watching to find out what you do for your video "like and subscribe" ideas. You're so very original and it deserves some more appreciation. Thank you, Baumi.
I am glad that my guess was right. At least in my mind, troll is a counter of ursa. I don't know if it makes sense at all. Other team duels that could be interesting in my mind: - Lina vs Crystal - sniper vs night stalker - any o f the elemental spirits vs each other - drow vs viper - Drow vs windranger - snapfire vs timbersaw - puck vs void Spirit - Io vs lone druid - Phoenix vs winter wyvern
I would guess Troll because his ulti had longer duration and full invincibility, but I don't know boosted well enough... Maybe if both can get completely invincible, would be Ursa because he can still control his hero? Either way, great video idea, would love to see more matchups like this
Yes please, do this 5v5 approach again. Some suggestions. Axe vs Centaur, who is the real tank? Razor vs Zeus, settle the lightning debate. Lina vs Sniper, range galore. Marci vs Primal Beast, showdown of monsters. Lone Druid vs Beastmaster, quality vs quantity (also probably RIP your frames). Dazzle vs Shadow Shaman, who is the Shaman King (I will see myself out). Viper vs Venomancer, settle the poison debate. Phantom Assassin vs Templar Assassin, which is the supreme cutthroat. Juggernaut vs Sven, swordplay or swordsize? Necrophos vs Death Prophet, who is more dead? Abaddon vs Lich, throwback WC3. Chen vs Enchantress, sponsored by Puppey? Doom vs Chaos Knight, which demon rules the brawn? Shadow Fiend vs Shadow Demon, which demon prevails at range? Storm vs Ember, a spirited encounter. Morphling vs Phoenix, water down undying flame. Pudge vs Undying, an absolutely marvelous stats-jack battle. Weaver vs Windranger, nerubian silk vs elven cloth. Huskar vs Wraith King, how to cheat death. Spectre vs Medusa, lategame showdown. Techies vs Tinker, extreme pain.
I think 100% Damage Reduction and specifically unreasonable amounts of debuff reduction carries the Ursa team. Even if the Trolls gain infinite duration Battle Trance, they won't have the damage or lockdown
the game only increases ursa's survivability to 99,9999999%. And troll in invincible. So, it's actually impossible to win given the time. The only way is to win as fast as you can.
My guess is they both get impossible to kill but ursa can still control their character to push down building while trolls are just forced to follow the ursa around
Before watching: I think troll warlord has a bit of an edge because his attack speed is passive and he has a root. But enrage and battle trance are similar in that they stop you from dying so both teams are likely to go into stale mate
Ursas are very front-loaded as damage per hit only matters to a certain extent. When it reaches its peak potential, the return on investment falls off hard (100k damage ain't any better than 5k if it gets the same result). This is especially true given that trolls only really live for so long outside ulti. This just means that trolls inevitably outscale ursas as 100 attacks per second is better than 4. Basically, if the game is 15 minutes long - ursas win, if it's not - already over for them. I bet on trolls.
SPOILERS FOR THE END There are three reasons why troll had the advantage: 1. Their basically infinite attack speed let them reach similar levels of damage to Ursa, but because they attacked more quickly, they could sneak more damage between attacks, maybe a stun as well, and prevent ursa from healing through lifesteal, ending the stalemates 2. Their ult was just more OP, because they could stay at 1hp forever, that was basically equivalent to being invincible, only in the early game could the ursas overpower them. Endlessly attacking could be a problem though, but here's where point 3 becomes relevant 3. Fury swipes do not affect buildings. Endless attack speed does. It doesn't matter if both teams were practically invincible, even if the ursas had the combat advantage, trolls could always push very quickly and end before radiant had a chance There were other factors like range and such, but to me those 3 determined the whole match
I mean, Ursa most likely. Both heroes have ult, that makes them invulnerable in Boosted, what means game will come down to pushing towers, both heroes equally matched in this regard. Unfortunately, Troll's Battle Trance is infinitely worse than Enrage: he can't control who, and, what's more important, *what* he is attacking while it is active. It takes just one invulnerable Ursa near him to immediately shut down push under Battle Trance, tho, of course, there is an argument to be made, that in theory Troll doesn't even need Battle Trance; he can eventually upgrade Fervour to a point of maxing out on attack speed with a single stack. However, Fervour doesn't provide any protection, what means until it reaches a threshold, Troll will simply be unable to push. And I'm pretty sure Ursa will reach complete invulnerability much sooner than that and will just take Troll's base down. But that's what I believe, let's see what actually happened. Upd: Well, I didn't know Ursa wasn't allowed to be invincible, neither I considered, that Troll would be lowering BAT to nothing. Regardless, I have to take L on this one.
both get immortal from ultis but URSA has self control during it so can rat a lane while the trolls all agro on one immortal ursa, with baumi kay fabe idk if this will be.
Ursa. Troll can win if he does enough damage quickly, but ursa has enrage making that practically impossible. Troll's ult even lends to ursa's ability to build up damage on tanky heroes, thus healing to full with each attack. ultimately, it depends on who gets the early advantage mostly.
I think troll will win, because with a low base attack time they can actually push, meanwhile fury swipes doesn't work on towers. Also 100% slow and miss chance provide good utility on the mid game.
the game only increases ursa's survivability to 99,9999999%. And troll in invincible. So, it's actually impossible to win given the time. The only way is to win as fast as you can. I also think that if ursa can hold the game long enough, ursa wins, because troll has long battle trance duration and ursa will live to lifesteal+oneshot power damage, and when battletrance ends troll dies. And if Ursa can land a hitkill on the first fury swipes hit, it is over.
I think both can become equaly broken, but I think that troll could get the upper hand, cause he can outrange ursa and maybe keep him at bay that way 🤔
let’s see, both can be invincible with their ults but getting enrage up to 100% up time is much easier than battle trance. Troll pushes faster, but I think 100% status resistance is probably too much for them. I think ursa wins but they’d have to weather an initially stronger troll team before permanent enrage comes online.
I think Trolls will win - cause of base attack time with inbuilt bash that has no cooldown(of it has not been changed) and can not die with ult active. So while Ursa also gets a long duration on ult with 100% damage ressist, i think the perma bash will just be too much for the ursa team to handle.
and trhen i see after the rosh kill that ursa also have status ressistance on ult as well.... ursa will probably win. Though it should be easier to snowball with base attack time reduction
I think Ursa wins because any troll who ults to win a 1v1 will be immediately one shot by the next ursa they see because they'll have loads of fury swipes
They both have a passive that enhances damage versus the same target over and over. Ursa's is much better though because you can change targets and not lose stacks for a few seconds. Troll has range though. So troll probably stonger early, but i dont think that will last. Ursa win prob
Ursa, because fury swipes are better than fervor, so they win early on. If trolls go for 100% uptime on ult, they can't die, but they can't control themselves, so the ursa's with 100% Enrage can push while trolls tickle them. Also, Baumi is team Ursa, and we all know Baumi never loses in a video!
Called it 😂 Trolls struggled whenever Ursa was up close in the earlier stages and when it came to a tipping point Ursa needed to change their item sets just to not be run over 😁
Saying this here before I watch the game, I think Ursa would win because they're just more flexible than Trolls. Ursa's ulti makes him unkillable. Troll's does the same thing but makes them uncontrollable so if they do that, they'd be stuck hitting unkillable Ursas for no gain
Wow I dunno who to pick But ursas must take this, their damage is infinite since fury swipes stack and it only takes one misplay from one troll for them to go down. On the other hand trolls can easily kill the enemy base. Pretty close in the end i bet Not a bad prediction tbh 😅
We all know that both troll and ursa are offensive powerhouses, that much is obvious. So then which one of them has the ability to survive the fight? Ursa has an ability to help him in that regard. All other things being equal I think Ursa takes this.
Neither hero can die because 100% enrage and battle trance uptime. Ursa can probably actually hit buildings while troll is stuck hitting something near him
Need more 5x5 duels like this
If it gets to late game troll wins 100%, just need to pump up ult duration and lower base attack time in melee form, eventually they will get so many itens that the damage will be insane
not if every ursa gets euls e blade hex and abbysal. its hard to go 100 uptime on enrage but you can just disable them during the remaining duration
At that point tho if the trolls group up, i think they just win. Like if all of them bought a halberd for each ursa and used it after getting the fervor stacks up, the ursas will just die cause they cant attack to lifesteal
@@Sunwaytiger unlke the trolls
disables are actually useless against ursa cause they can build status resistance
I’d love to see this kind of content more often! It’s actually really cool!
I'm gonna go with Troll just because he is by design a harder carry, and his upgrades in booster will help with thatt. Also his ulti stops him from dying where as ursa's just makes it harder to kill him.
@9:00 about stack_stun_count property. Dota devs wrote in a blog that when adding new abilities they take old abilities that are similar and tweak them just a bit. I have a feeling that Ursa Fury Swipes and Slardar bash are kind of similar this way, Slardar having the stun property activated. Interesting discovery!
It’s actually an ages old question. I’ve always thought Troll was better late game especially back when he had a bash on his Q
Those two heroes are thematically similar as they’re both known as the kings of 1vs1
Id really like to see more of those type of videos
They're both gonna be unkillable, so it's gonna come down to who can kill towers, so with optimal play troll. Troll is better that pushing, but I'm not 100% sure how the AI works? He could just infinitely be stucking chasing an invisicble ursa. But that's the only case I can see ursa possibly winnning. In normal dota troll wins the match up, and I don't see any huge advantage ursa would get here to counteract it. Where as troll can be invisible, lower his base attack time indefinitely, and attack multiple targets with shard. Also troll's duration on invincibilty scales faster. So I give 90% odds to troll
Honestly, Baumi, at this point, I'm just watching to find out what you do for your video "like and subscribe" ideas. You're so very original and it deserves some more appreciation.
Thank you, Baumi.
I am glad that my guess was right. At least in my mind, troll is a counter of ursa. I don't know if it makes sense at all.
Other team duels that could be interesting in my mind:
- Lina vs Crystal
- sniper vs night stalker
- any o f the elemental spirits vs each other
- drow vs viper
- Drow vs windranger
- snapfire vs timbersaw
- puck vs void Spirit
- Io vs lone druid
- Phoenix vs winter wyvern
Separate ups killed "same hero" mode imo
i loved it
Troll attack sound can trigger PTSD.
I would guess Troll because his ulti had longer duration and full invincibility, but I don't know boosted well enough... Maybe if both can get completely invincible, would be Ursa because he can still control his hero?
Either way, great video idea, would love to see more matchups like this
I want to say Ursa. But now I'm thinking a troll gets infinite duration on ult xD
Now this is some content we need
troll with the friendly unit R :D they will be saving their friends at last moment
Yes please, do this 5v5 approach again.
Some suggestions.
Axe vs Centaur, who is the real tank?
Razor vs Zeus, settle the lightning debate.
Lina vs Sniper, range galore.
Marci vs Primal Beast, showdown of monsters.
Lone Druid vs Beastmaster, quality vs quantity (also probably RIP your frames).
Dazzle vs Shadow Shaman, who is the Shaman King (I will see myself out).
Viper vs Venomancer, settle the poison debate.
Phantom Assassin vs Templar Assassin, which is the supreme cutthroat.
Juggernaut vs Sven, swordplay or swordsize?
Necrophos vs Death Prophet, who is more dead?
Abaddon vs Lich, throwback WC3.
Chen vs Enchantress, sponsored by Puppey?
Doom vs Chaos Knight, which demon rules the brawn?
Shadow Fiend vs Shadow Demon, which demon prevails at range?
Storm vs Ember, a spirited encounter.
Morphling vs Phoenix, water down undying flame.
Pudge vs Undying, an absolutely marvelous stats-jack battle.
Weaver vs Windranger, nerubian silk vs elven cloth.
Huskar vs Wraith King, how to cheat death.
Spectre vs Medusa, lategame showdown.
Techies vs Tinker, extreme pain.
I think 100% Damage Reduction and specifically unreasonable amounts of debuff reduction carries the Ursa team. Even if the Trolls gain infinite duration Battle Trance, they won't have the damage or lockdown
I was almost screaming at Boomi "RECONNECT!" because he hadn't gone any upgrades for half of the game
My guess is Ursa gets immortal with 100% enrage and wins that way.
My guess is troll becomes immortal through his ulti and wins that way.
the game only increases ursa's survivability to 99,9999999%. And troll in invincible. So, it's actually impossible to win given the time. The only way is to win as fast as you can.
@@guiaugusto94 you can deny Troll's ultimate with manaburn though
@@VentingGragorywhat if use hex to troll after dagger ?
Troll warlord- the incredibly low base attack time will be more useful for pushing towers.
Void would be awesome for this. Everyone gets to run sround in chrono
My guess is they both get impossible to kill but ursa can still control their character to push down building while trolls are just forced to follow the ursa around
Ursa is my prediction coming back later
Before watching: I think troll warlord has a bit of an edge because his attack speed is passive and he has a root. But enrage and battle trance are similar in that they stop you from dying so both teams are likely to go into stale mate
Wasn't even about ultimates or kills. It was game of overpower versus fervor. Only one side had push potential in the end.
Ursas are very front-loaded as damage per hit only matters to a certain extent. When it reaches its peak potential, the return on investment falls off hard (100k damage ain't any better than 5k if it gets the same result). This is especially true given that trolls only really live for so long outside ulti. This just means that trolls inevitably outscale ursas as 100 attacks per second is better than 4.
Basically, if the game is 15 minutes long - ursas win, if it's not - already over for them. I bet on trolls.
My brain: cheese of immortal
Riki vs Bounty Hunter!
35 minutes since you posted this video.
I think troll gets battle trance duration longer than its CD and thus wins it.
SPOILERS FOR THE END
There are three reasons why troll had the advantage:
1. Their basically infinite attack speed let them reach similar levels of damage to Ursa, but because they attacked more quickly, they could sneak more damage between attacks, maybe a stun as well, and prevent ursa from healing through lifesteal, ending the stalemates
2. Their ult was just more OP, because they could stay at 1hp forever, that was basically equivalent to being invincible, only in the early game could the ursas overpower them. Endlessly attacking could be a problem though, but here's where point 3 becomes relevant
3. Fury swipes do not affect buildings. Endless attack speed does. It doesn't matter if both teams were practically invincible, even if the ursas had the combat advantage, trolls could always push very quickly and end before radiant had a chance
There were other factors like range and such, but to me those 3 determined the whole match
I mean, Ursa most likely. Both heroes have ult, that makes them invulnerable in Boosted, what means game will come down to pushing towers, both heroes equally matched in this regard. Unfortunately, Troll's Battle Trance is infinitely worse than Enrage: he can't control who, and, what's more important, *what* he is attacking while it is active. It takes just one invulnerable Ursa near him to immediately shut down push under Battle Trance, tho, of course, there is an argument to be made, that in theory Troll doesn't even need Battle Trance; he can eventually upgrade Fervour to a point of maxing out on attack speed with a single stack. However, Fervour doesn't provide any protection, what means until it reaches a threshold, Troll will simply be unable to push. And I'm pretty sure Ursa will reach complete invulnerability much sooner than that and will just take Troll's base down. But that's what I believe, let's see what actually happened.
Upd:
Well, I didn't know Ursa wasn't allowed to be invincible, neither I considered, that Troll would be lowering BAT to nothing. Regardless, I have to take L on this one.
honestly impossible to predict which team will win for me
my guess is troll bc of attack speed with basher will stun lock the ursas and don't let them enrage
This is cool, do Lore Accurate nextime.
I think a fight between terroblade and phantom Lancer would be a great show. Also troll wins because I feel late game goes in trolls favor
PL vs TB seems kinda boring since both players would just make immortal illusions
Fury swipes don't help you push so troll might win with sufficient focus.
Yeahhh the best ultimate inevitably wins 😂
both get immortal from ultis but URSA has self control during it so can rat a lane while the trolls all agro on one immortal ursa, with baumi kay fabe idk if this will be.
Why no orchid and kill before silence ends, so they cant use ult
Ursa. Troll can win if he does enough damage quickly, but ursa has enrage making that practically impossible. Troll's ult even lends to ursa's ability to build up damage on tanky heroes, thus healing to full with each attack. ultimately, it depends on who gets the early advantage mostly.
ursa because life steal is based on outgoing damage invincibility is good but that furry swipe stacks are a different breed
I think troll will win, because with a low base attack time they can actually push, meanwhile fury swipes doesn't work on towers. Also 100% slow and miss chance provide good utility on the mid game.
so if one of the ursa's on his team upgraded something would all of them get it or is that not how it works
I think that Troll will finish the game fast enough to not let Ursa have 100% reduction and uptime
That was cool!
eul dispels trols skills
I'll guess Ursa wins eventually, because fury swipes?
If troll has infinite duration battle trance is hard .
If ursa can jump and hex troll . Ursa can win
Extended troll ultimate might outlast ursa ultimate
Is the troll immo changed from blue to white?? Or is that just a visual bug
My guess is that ursa has an easier time having perma enrage vs troll being able to have perma ult so ursa can probably find a window
the game only increases ursa's survivability to 99,9999999%. And troll in invincible. So, it's actually impossible to win given the time. The only way is to win as fast as you can.
I also think that if ursa can hold the game long enough, ursa wins, because troll has long battle trance duration and ursa will live to lifesteal+oneshot power damage, and when battletrance ends troll dies. And if Ursa can land a hitkill on the first fury swipes hit, it is over.
Ursa doesn't have damage reduction no more, of course troll
I think both can become equaly broken, but I think that troll could get the upper hand, cause he can outrange ursa and maybe keep him at bay that way 🤔
Dota 2 but Ora Ora Ora vs Muda Muda Muda
Troll 'cause of base attack + stun and hard to push towers early for Ursa.
I think the Trolls will win because in reasing berserkers blood also makes procs OP. And Troll is good when there are to ranged heroes or supporta
let’s see, both can be invincible with their ults but getting enrage up to 100% up time is much easier than battle trance. Troll pushes faster, but I think 100% status resistance is probably too much for them. I think ursa wins but they’d have to weather an initially stronger troll team before permanent enrage comes online.
I think Trolls will win - cause of base attack time with inbuilt bash that has no cooldown(of it has not been changed) and can not die with ult active. So while Ursa also gets a long duration on ult with 100% damage ressist, i think the perma bash will just be too much for the ursa team to handle.
and trhen i see after the rosh kill that ursa also have status ressistance on ult as well.... ursa will probably win. Though it should be easier to snowball with base attack time reduction
I think Ursa wins because any troll who ults to win a 1v1 will be immediately one shot by the next ursa they see because they'll have loads of fury swipes
would all having diffusals have helped as troll cannot ult without mana
That was cool
The support ursa is real
Gonna say troll as man has way better push or baumi’s team as well it’s baumi
They both have a passive that enhances damage versus the same target over and over. Ursa's is much better though because you can change targets and not lose stacks for a few seconds. Troll has range though. So troll probably stonger early, but i dont think that will last. Ursa win prob
Ursa shares stacks with team and doesn't have a limit but also doesn't have pushing power I'm going to go with troll
Please tell me someone else realized that Baumi's upgrades options disappeared after just a few minutes.
So frustrating haha
My initial guess is that troll wins, since troll physically cannot die, while ursa can only get up to 98% damage resistance or whatever.
Yeah, ursa need to hex first before catch troll. Or just straight push
Troll has to win by just having so much duration on Ultimate that it doesn't matter.
I think Troll wins because Fervor's busted and whirling axes pierce immunity
I think Troll Warlord wins by sheer pushing and being unable to die maybe?
Ursa, because fury swipes are better than fervor, so they win early on. If trolls go for 100% uptime on ult, they can't die, but they can't control themselves, so the ursa's with 100% Enrage can push while trolls tickle them. Also, Baumi is team Ursa, and we all know Baumi never loses in a video!
Dang! I forgot Boosted doesn't let Ursa upgrade Enrage! Troll favoritism!
Juggernaut vs Sven
on normal dota, troll definitely beats ursa. but on boosted, i have no idea.
1:23 in, im Guessing Ursa should win this fairly easily, i assume there will be a lot of 100% dmg reductions
well i was wrong! =P
ursa's are going to win because they benefit from economy of scale in numbers. (stacks of fury swipes are shared!)
Troll. Because of increased ultimate length
2nd Nice Vid as usual. Keep it up my man. For me, troll win win just because of that ULT.
Sadly you werent first by 15 seconds
I wanna see spec vs medusa
Troll probably wins it, hits buildings way harder, becomes unkillable for longer than ursa, manaburn will be a must buy in that matchup
Troll , just push
troll gets this with items
troll because it has larger values than enrage so it scales faster
I think Troll wins if they rat or get a big chance to push cause they’ll melt the buildings
easier to stomp as ursa than troll. Troll team wont have the chance to come online before perma enrage shenanigans
Do Invoker vs Rubick
Troll, wins through superior splitting i think
if it 1 on 1 troll will win it, with its speed to max and lifesteal effect he will dominate after enrage and battle trance uptime.
Ursa fury swipes stack?
Troll because loterall immortality beats 100 percent damage reduction
Troll can Perma bash Ursa, so troll wins
I think Troll wins if he can maintain distance in the early game because Ursa needs more items to counter Troll.
Called it 😂
Trolls struggled whenever Ursa was up close in the earlier stages and when it came to a tipping point Ursa needed to change their item sets just to not be run over 😁
Troll, both are unkillable but troll has pushing power so troll wins.
Saying this here before I watch the game, I think Ursa would win because they're just more flexible than Trolls.
Ursa's ulti makes him unkillable.
Troll's does the same thing but makes them uncontrollable so if they do that, they'd be stuck hitting unkillable Ursas for no gain
Troll with ult
just silver edge and bloodthorn then you are nothing for both sides😂😂😂
Troll can easily destroy your buildings. So i think troll wins.
My guess is troll cause he is invincible in ult and has the pushing power :-)
Wow
I dunno who to pick
But ursas must take this, their damage is infinite since fury swipes stack and it only takes one misplay from one troll for them to go down. On the other hand trolls can easily kill the enemy base. Pretty close in the end i bet
Not a bad prediction tbh 😅
We all know that both troll and ursa are offensive powerhouses, that much is obvious. So then which one of them has the ability to survive the fight? Ursa has an ability to help him in that regard. All other things being equal I think Ursa takes this.