Don't Believe the Hype! Everything that Glitters Isn't Gold
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Lossless Audio Test via NPR n.pr/3SPO97t
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I’m surprised the LS50 is so polarizing! I picked up a pair during COVID shutdowns for $750! I paired them with a McIntosh preamp/ Parasound amp. I have them about 6 feet apart with no toe-in, 3 feet out from the wall and the listening position is about 7.5 feet away. My room is 25x15. I have an RSL sub. I listen to mostly jazz, classical, and well-recorded pop/rock. I seldom listen over 80dB. They are absolutely amazing. The imaging is incredible and the speakers disappear. They sound very neutral and musical.
Part of the issue is knowing their strengths. They aren’t the best for every situation, to be sure. But, in the right set-up and with the right listening habits, they are crazy good.
I think the host of the show and maybe one other or the only ones that doesn't like them. Everybody else seems happy with him. I know I am.
My main guess (since I have never heard them) is that you need a really good and probably expensive amplifying system for them similar to Magnepans.
beautiful speakers as well as the triangle BR03. kefs are nicer, no question. beautiful soundstage, liquid vocals!
Those Amp and Dac is most probably more costlier than the speakers, and plus you have the subwoofer. I think that may have made the difference.
Randy's philosophy is that any speaker should work properly with a decent Amp and Dac ,which I agree to also as there are many speakers which can do that.
Hence, I think LS50 is handicapped. However, if you are enjoying it good for you.
I did listen to the LS50 with dedicated stands once at a stereo shop. They was on loan from a distributor. I listened to them with the shop owner through an upper-end Marantz integrated amp, Marantz CD player, and good cables. They sounded awful - not at all musical. The shop owner agreed and just wanted them out of his shop. I asked him why they were so popular and well reviewed. His only guess was “pay to play”…lots of money invested in advertising.
I think the main reason opinions on the LS50 are so polarizing are because people who like them haven't compared them to other speakers; they just buy them based on reviews or because they're on sale. Try comparing the LS50 to a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 300 7G and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Granted, they're more expensive than the LS50 but more commensurate in quality with your amp and preamp.
An easy fix for the kefs is to just buy the wireless II. You won't need to worry about finding the right match for amplification
Re MP3; back in the days of napster, I already took a/b of mp3 vs. cd. on both speakers and headphones. On some tracks I could pick out the 192 kbps but the majority I could not. I could not tell any 320 kbps from CD. It was pure guessing. Since then I haven't been pursuaded one bit of the many promises of lossless. A/B tests are good at giving one a peace of mind! I recommend any enthusiast to make an effort to do more of self-testing (DACS/cables/amps/files/power conditioners etc.). If they did, the snake oil business would die out quickly and I will not miss it. But you need to be honest to yourself of-course.
old people don't hear it, If old people say it's good, don't buy it !
@@lucasrem Did you say P.S. Audio or did I read too much between the lines?
That’s definitely a you thing. On my system the difference is night and day.
@@jeremyhuntington1 I don't believe you are being honest to yourself. Maybe you are justifying your purchases.
I've done fair share of ABX testing of different formats. It is dependent on the track but most of the time I can tell apart a 320kbps mp3 from a lossless flac file. I find that generally OGG is much better than mp3 too.
Ok i can officially say this: you are out of your mind with the Ls50 Meta. I got a pair in today and they are spectacular. I think they just didn't like your running gear. For reference, i also own the 1TDX Superior, which you reviewed and loved, the Emotiva T zero which you reviewed and loved, the Micca RB42 which you reviewed and loved. And a bunch of other speakers. Scratching my head on your comments, they are simply fabulous. Pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10s 3 feet off the ground, near field, perfectly tuned. Its glorious. Orchard Audio Starkrimson GaN monoblocks with the GaN power supplies, Gustard X26 Pro dac, Topping Pre 90, Schiit Lokius.
I have bought a lot of high end hi fi components over the years. I found the quality of the recording made the biggest difference in sound quality.
Yep... High end audio equipment has one drawback... It reveals a crap recording right away.
No doubt.
yep. Recording > Speaker > Source. I've heard differences between amps, especially tube amps, but to call them anything but minor or subtle would be disingenuous. Cables even more so in this regard
Yes sir. Don’t know why this is made more apparent. Also, many reviewers are testing speakers thru 5,000 dollars worth of gear and up. This also makes a huge difference. Hi res files thru a top notch streamer, sent to a top dollar external dac, and then sent to a very high end amplifier also tilts the field. Most any semi reputable speaker is going to sound quality when hooked up to gear like this.
Fully agree
One thing about lossless or less compression is that with a good Dac every once in awhile I’ll hear things in songs I’ve never noticed or sometimes even heard before. When that happens to me it’s totally worth it. You can hear more separation between the instruments and the singers and even multiple background singers. I heard You can’t always get what you want - Rolling Stones ( I’ve heard that song 100 times) and the hair on my neck went up. I was hearing sounds and singers I had never heard bc before there was no separation. Sounded more smashed together if that makes sense. So I don’t care what people say. I want clear live sound like the band is in the room with me. And you won’t get that without better resolution and a good digital to analog converter. My 2 cents.
Good speakers buddy, VERY IMPORTANT.
I have 2 pairs of LS50s with Sprout 100 amps, wonderful pairing. Both setups are on my home and work desk, about 5 feet apart, sitting on my desks. It’s the only high end speaker I’ve really enjoyed listening to that close.
They are monitors 😉
I’m a fan of Chinese brand hi fi, mostly never over hyped ,you get what you pay for ,Denafrips , Kinki S, Holo Audio, Jays Audio ,SMSL, Topping , Aiyima, Lii Audio, Doge, Fiio, Boyurange, Willsenton ….too many to go thru. As I reside in China it’s even 15%-30% cheaper in most instances. It doesn’t get better than that.
I'm actually using the cheapest Wondom class T amp with my OGY and it sounds wonderful. If only the amp could output more than 10W! We should bring back class T. Boost the power.
Most Chinese hifi is garbage and I am chinese lol I tried most of them and I wanted to like them, chinese focus on measurements only … there is a reason why accuphase is still the best because they actually tune their equipment
@@davehao4486 I don’t agree , Stereophile , Steve Gutenberg and many other credible reviewers have given top marks to several Chinese gear. Also price is always a consideration, you cannot expect a US2k gear to perform at the same level as a US5k gear. If price is not an issue then even Accuphase is not in the realm of hi end hifi. I give credit to the Chinese because for the last 10 years they have made great strides esp with mid tier gear.
I disagree with you: I ended up with denon pma-1700ne amp and dac and has headphone amp all build in at 2000 usd, that sounded better than all these Chinese dac plus headphone combos plus it comes with a serious amp, so the mid tier Japanese options still beat the Chinese options, the Chinese got a long way to go and their entire strategy is to basically sell to new comers to headphone space who never heard of the regular brands and their strategy of flooding UA-cam with paid reviews helps lol and I suspect topping, smsl etc basically all the same company to create illusion of choice, it’s a good way to make money as a business, make a mediocre dac, pay off a ton of UA-camrs, go for specs instead of it sounding good… so it’s amazing on paper that’s it good business strategy
@@davehao4486 Well that’s a pretty tight budget and you are going for an all in one. TBH I’m not familiar with all in ones and I don’t use headphones. I’m using a Willsenton R800i class A tube SET amp with rolled tubes at US3.5k and a Denafrips Pontus 2 DAC with Iris DDC connected by I2S US2K. So I guess we are not talking about the same thing. I’m mostly talking about separates with a budget around US8k. That to me is mid fi
Measurements tell the truth. So does blind A/B tests. Anyone can tell speakers apart. Amps are a bit harder. Dacs are much harder. To my ears, good giant box speakers sound the best (15" woofer 3-way).
If you are ripping CDs to your computer, the only reason to use a compression codec like MP3 are AAC and lossless is because of a lack of hard drive space. But things have changed hard drives have gotten a lot cheaper high-capacity hard drives are very affordable. I have 4000 albums all ripped as uncompressed AIFF it only takes up 2.10 TB.
@@elonmuskrat2830 You must have only read half of my comment. Your reply seemed to be fueled by a jealousy of my having 4000 albums. You missed the part about high-capacity hard drives being affordable. You think I would have only one copy? Oh no you don't poopy pants! I have multiple copies. When I rip a new CD, it goes to no less than six hard drives. Two SSD hard drives in the computer and another portable SSD. And three HDD NAS hard drives kept in a fire rated box kept inside a fire rated safe. I still have all the CDs. Even something as bad as a fire all your vinyl and CDs are just going to end up as a smoldering pile of melted plastic hopefully my music would survive. I go to that extent because in the past I have lost everything in a fire, and it sucks big time.
Speaker cables: #10 all-copper lamp cord!
😁
I've been in the HiFi business for over 40 years. As a retailer and an extremely involved hobbiest. Onlt three speakers have ever totally blown me away. Dahlquist DQ10, Magnepans (any Flavor) and KEF LS50 Metas......Sure, I've owned and listened to many very, very good speakers....but NONE knocked me over like these three. I bought KEF LS50 Metas last year. I've had avowed audiophiles come over and listen to them. A few have sold their multi thousand dollar speakers and bought Metas! I've had musicians over that actually had tears in their eyes listening to them.....Imaging, Dynamics, Vocals, Woodwinds, Brass......Simply an amazing speaker! (Using Schitt Freya preamp, Pass Labs First Watt F5v2 amp or VTA ST120 Dynaco clone with Node 2i and Gustard DAC)
BTW, I've bought and recommended tons of equipment on your reviews. Second systems throughout the house with ELAC, ChiFi, Topping, etc.....In most cases, always pleased with the decision....)
thanks, Roy.
Now you got me really interested in listening to those three speakers.
I sold my Ares2, The internal DAC on my Bluesound NODE was just too close to justify the Ares, and also the midrange and bass seemed to be a little more pronounced on the NODE, which I preferred sometimes. But, the curiosity got me and I ordered a Pontus2, which should be here in a couple days..LOL! Im convinced the ONLY reason they make the Ares is to get you to jump to the Pontus...
I did the same kinda. Went with Pontus. I am happy overall with it. A good gain helped a lot
I made this comment on the Denafrips Facebook group recently but it amazes me how many people move up the Denafrips line. I have an Ares II and I hope I never hear a Pontus. 😉
A good powerful preamp made a huge different with my Denafrips. I tried them with 2 preamps and just a potentiometer and no go. Pre90, now we cooking. Tube preamp is next. Wish I had tested other dacs with pre90
On compressed vs. lossless I did that experiment some 20 years ago. I used a brand new CD I ripped into 320kb/s MP3 and compared the two. That’s when I gave up ripping CDs to MP3. It was a clear deterioration of subtle sounds, specially in the high frequencies. Some sound effects were almost gone. Now consider a music setup made of source, amp and speakers. If you lose a little here (compressed music) a little in the source signal, a little in the amp and a little in the speakers, what do you get? A sum of loses on your audio experience.
A point that needs to be be made about the KEF LS50 speakers - some folks have very different listening rooms. As in, the building construction is mostly concrete/brick/masonry - and this has a HUGE effect on the bass response, in the room.
At the end of the day they’re just not that good. At least based on how much they’re pushed. They’re good compared to speakers costing $300-500, but that’s where it ends. They’re super sharp and fatiguing. When you talk about bass, they’re good in a bedroom. Beyond a 10x15 they’re pretty weak unless you have a subwoofer.
I will say, amazing for watching TV as the treble is perfect for voices
The Martin Logan ML-2 5.1 system is stull the best priced surround sound system for the price ever. And the KEF LS50 are the only thing when you dont have a single listening position. They sound great from every spot in the room with a toe in.
Since I've been a music enthusiast and audiophile, I've changed and re-listened to a lot of speakers, and I can say with certainty that the KEF LS50s were among the ones that stuck out in my memory as one of the best. Since I'm not exactly an amateur, I'll list some speakers that I've personally owned: Dynaudio, Anthony Gallo, Audio Physic, Dali, Quad, Magnepan, Proac, Linn... I currently own a pair of small Dali Menuets, but I still regret selling the LS50 which I sold mainly because I thought they were not suitable for my space. I will probably get them at the first opportunity, in Germany they are just now available new (non META) for 599 EUR, which is a fantastic price.
Same here! Coz maybe I dont sitdown to listen rock and disco which in anyway they are not good at,at all.When I sitdown, I only listen to jazz, vocals,instrumental and acoustic music. I only listen rock and disco in my car while Im driving. That means, if you like rock, disco and something like that, you will tend to like V or U shaped sound, and if you like jazz, vocals, and again something like that, you will like the ls50’s. I dunno if that make sense?
@@haroldbriones7041 I agree. I mostly listen to classical music and the LS50s are great for that.
I thought my own diy bookshelf that had 1.5k in parts would blow away the kef ls 50 with it's small driver. Thought the scan speak tweeter would be clearer, and that my premium cross over parts would destroy the kef. I was sadly mistaken. The kef has it in clarity and top end but lacks everything below a certain point. Also I found the tweeter a bit metallic in areas depending on what you play but for the price its quite impressive. Would have loved to compare it on something other than a class d denon av receiver. I bet there would be more of a difference but for the average components, and price it showed that it can compete.
I have a pair of the non-meta black edition. I was very happy with them in my relatively small study, but then added a sub, and boy, do they suddenly open up and sound fantastic. They don't "need" a sub but are so much better with one.
They also have a reputation of being hard to drive, but my PrimaLuna drives them absolutely fine with 38Watts of tubey goodness.
I agree with everything you said. I was always interested in the Anthony Gallo's. How were those speakers compared to the ls50s?
I love the quality gold plate brings to fiber spdif cables. I can definitely hear the difference. And, yes I saw them for sale.
Don’t you think that today you’re more experienced in listening for soundstage imaging.
The speakers to a disappearing act, when placed correctly, one of the best speakers ever designed. Same goes for the elac ub5.
The KEF LS50 / Meta has a very particular sonic fingerprint that I can pick out from a blind test. It has to do with their particular implementation of the concentric drivers. Nestling a tweeter in a deep cone creates a perceivable horn effect. Preference is always a personal choice, but I find that sound highly unnatural. That might explain why you are seeing many in the used market.
By contrast, the ELAC Uni-fi 2.0 implementation doesn’t create that effect at all.
agree 1000%
ELACs seem quietly brilliant. I see people complain about Klipsch, Monitor Audio and others, but rarely ELAC.
May give Elac a try
Its just a wave guide. Placing the tweeter in center of woofers voice coil just eliminates phase and timing problems that other speakers have to contend with. There is no "effect" going on, so if you don't care for how it sounds its for other reasons.
My 2014 Audi a six with a Bose speaker system has some of the best sound I have heard especially coming from a factory OEM manufacture better than any hi-fi system could provide with that being said it is not the best but simply the fact that it’s in a car it makes for a great listening experience
I was shocked how good the ls50 meta sounded, I was expecting clean sound but not much bass as they’re so small, the bass was great!
Compared them to some Dali’s at a higher price point and the ls50 had a great sound stage and vanished in the room.
Interesting to hear another opinion.
what source you use, If old people say it's good, don't buy it !
@@lucasrem Tidal/MQA
I own the Elac Unifi Reference and my roommate has the Kef LS50 Metas. The Metas are better hands down, imaging and sound stage. Overall it's a better speaker in my opinion.
@@boquan Yep the Metas are the real deal... I know its subjective and cheapaudio man makes good points about bass but come on, look at the size of the speakers, they weren't meant to really have any significant bass. I disagree the LS50s are overhyped, I think people who buy the LS50s think they are done and they don't pair them up with decent gear.
Took the NPR test.
Got em all right. Wasn't even using my best headphones. Just my Bluetooth ones. ✌️
Just have to focus on the higher or lower frequency extension.
Don't know how to explain it, it's like I can hear an extra layer of shimmer on higher frequencies with lossless. And lower frequencies have more "oomphf".
Although, to be fair, I used to work as an audio engineer back in the day.
Some NOT all audiophiles just don’t like brands like Bose because they offered the consumer products that sounded good who didn’t want to pay thousands of dollars and deal with the tediousness of audio. They can both co-exist. Pick your preference and enjoy your movies and music your way.
Problem is they never sounded good compared to anything good that was even half their price.
Worlds Best Cables is good if they have your specifications. Where I gotten mine is eBay- they have many vendors that will only charge on cost per foot, connectors, labor and profit. The most I have spent is $55 for a beefy Belden quad that was 20'. All the brands are available: Mogami, Belden, Canare, etc. and you are not stuck with all extra cost of left over shrink tube, and banana plugs- not to say that I haven't built 3 Belden 9497 cables for about 2/3 the cost of two similar from Tuneful.
I looked up cable risers on Google thinking it was a wind-up or an audiophile joke. I was gob-smacked to see they exist. It made me laugh and I chuckled all day over the thought that people actually buy them!
What about Techmoans CD shaver.
I dont know, I got the ls50 metas and couldnt be happier, but i have 'em paired with a sub and amp from lyngdorf, which has room correction and sub integration baked in.
And about Bose, it's basically what got me into the hobby. A soundlink mini, a rinky dink Bluetooth speaker, which if you place juuuuust right in a corner you got some decent bass out of it
I also have my ls50s with a dirac room correction. It's fun to play with the equalizer, and it makes a world of difference, especially with the bass.
I run four speakers with two amps and great subwoofer from same source and all for less than 2000 dollars and it sounded as good as the bon iver concert I was in last week
Took the test on my laptop and audio Technica ath m50x, no special dac or anything, and got them all, the difference was pretty obvious even on those highly highly compressed pop songs. The Coldplay one almost tricked me because there's a ton of clipping in the wav!!!
(I listen mostly to modern classical, so called noise, [free] jazz, neofolk/dark ambient, etc, and these are waaay more demanding on hifi than what they had as example!)
cables can and do make a difference. make them yourselves, good quality wire and good connectors, solder are way cheaper than anything commercial.
Cables can make a difference, i've heard it in both speaker cables and interconnects, but spending thousands is ridiculous. I'm talking going from like a 16 ga. wire to a beefy 12 ga you can hear a little more presence. It just makes sense if the cable can more easily carry the current, more of the signal is going to make it from the source to the speaker.
What bothers me is how some reviewers' opinions are positively correlated with the price. A Rob waxes poetic about the Naim Uniti Atom every week it seems, yet it measures really badly and owners say reliability of the product is a problem.
Ol' Logitech Z5500's Optical only with Tidal on the iMac Optical out. Pure Audio Heaven for the Price!!!
agreed re: heavy duty cables. i had to replace some rca inputs on a preamp b/c the cables i was using were so rigid and the male rca connector was so tight... i couldn't get them off without destroying the input. i spend a bit more on cables... but nothing crazy.
The power cord seems to be heavy in general however speaker cable doesn't have to be that thick! Thickness does not mean it sounds better than a thinner cable as I found out.
I put my Sen’s 650’s on my Xduoo 604 Tube Amp ..and it’s definitely improved in overall performance 😋
Not for all genres of music..but it’s more smooth and detailed.
Great video Randy ☕️☕️
Take care 👍
Did the test and after three wrongs i realized that highest quality sound is smoother in high eng and got the rest right. To my liking lossless sound worse. I used Focal Aria 906.
Hi there CAM, tuning in Jul/2023. I relegated my LS50's (gen 2 non-meta) to rear channel as part of my surround system. For me and my ear when incorporating a DDC with my DAC it lowered my noise floor thus allowing more clarity and detail to be heard in my listening environment. Also, when I got all amplification to be balanced along with a very simple balanced preamp my system took multiple steps up in sound reproduction! Thoughts... comments? Take care 🙂
Love love love my Naim Uniti Atom running my Martin Logan Vantage speakers .To each there own i suppose
While I don’t personally enjoy the Bose sound but I respect it for the innovation and simplicity my grandfather had a Bose radio. It’s certainly interesting the engineering behind it but I don’t really enjoy the sound signature.
Agree with the KEFs on the amp.
Not with the sound. The sound and the data back the LS50’s as a reference bookshelf
Re lossless: It actually makes a lot of sense if you are using Bluetooth since then you get 2 generations of degradation and since you are probably using two different codecs you'll kind of hear the worst of both: original -> (e.g.) mp3 -> (e.g.) AAC. If you've ever edited a picture and saved it as a JPEG multiple times you'll have experienced this effect visually.
If you are sending lossless over Bluetooth you only get one generation of degradation: original -> (e.g.) AAC.
Bose - I have used the powered speaker Roommate for decades as computer speakers and then as a easy to move around test audio speaker when setting up a computer. The solid box hides a single drive unit when most speakers this style and size would have a separate tweeter. Even so it holds up for much of the time, particularly with radio and TV. They lack bass etc but these 20+ year old speakers are good enough that I got my daughter two pairs 2nd hand for surround sound on her computer. I bought a pair of JR149 cylinder speakers to match the two pairs I had. The seller was exchanging his separate hi-fi system for a Bose all in one Wave radio with CD. It is like a boombox on steroids and at a very high price. It was good enough for him and took up less space in the home.
Bose and B&O have often been cited as style over quality or paying for the brand name. I was recently gifted a 1986 Beocenter 9000 with CX100 speakers. All parts of this music centre are excellent. The interface is 21st Century and has scope to add active speakers and multi-room passive speakers. They sell for very little and can be serviced if needed. With B&O certainly the user experience and quality is in the price, the life style design comes as a bonus.
Lossless audio - In setting up a new pair of B&O Beosound Level digital speakers I started testing with AAC files on my Android phone. Later I set up steaming from my computer via Windows Media Player and listened to the same track as wave files (no compression, full CD bit rate) over Wi-Fi and it was a whole different speaker. Yes the AAC files are compressed and Bluetooth also has compression but the difference was immediate. The last batch of CD to convert to my digital jukebox were to FLAC files - so lossless compression. I possibly would not hear the difference between 320kbps and FLAC but space isn't an issue. I used FLAC because the current version of CD convertor (gets meta data from an online library) does not have a wave output option. Windows Media player does not recognise all the types of audio files that I have - particularly podcasts taken from BBC iplayer as flv files. A friend using Apple iTunes says that when listening to HD audio he can place the instruments in the space in front of him which he could not before. I have been doing that with vinyl and CDs for 40 years.
Over priced for performance - I suspected my first hi-fi system was lacking. A shop invited me over with my equipment to set up and compare with a range of gear at different price points that they set up for me in a demo room. I found my amp was far better with alternative and more efficient speakers. My speakers only really got going with a pair of 100 watt mono blocks. It took only the first seconds to hear the difference between my Transciptor Skeleton (sell now for £1500 but was £90) and the Linn Sondek. I ended up with a complete new system including the Linn Sondek, Ittok and Asik. Ten years later I went back to the shop to upgrade the Sondek but was offered a part exchange for fully kitted out latest model. This year I had that deck services, upgraded motor and replaced the failed Trokia cartridge with the inferior (most likely) Krystal at a cost numerically similar to the original purchase cost. The current top of the range Sondek is now 12x the price of the 1990 version with much of the interior changed but in context in 1990 I paid 10% of my annual salary. In 2022 for a similar job the current top of the line would be 75% of annual salary. In performance the 20:80 rule applies and you have to let your ears decide if the much higher cost is worth any improvement you might detect. I find that after a certain quality it is more about difference than clear improvement and if I am happy to live with a particular system or not. I had passed on my original JR149 speakers to my brother in law. Years later he gave the system back as the family wanted a stack matching set up with remote. In 2007 I inherited my father's JR149. I got a third pair, a Meridian G55 five channel power amplifier and B&W PV1 sub for surround. The only reason for selling this set up was the Meridian D600 floor standing speakers sold for the same as the passive JR149 and I only needed a pair for rears and a Meridian M60C for centre to my M1 active speakers. Since then the second hand price for the JR149 has doubled. In the 70s and 80s the hi-fi press had their darling separates value for money beyond their price bracket. Regardless of anything else they did make a good starting point for comparison. Thereafter it was for your ears and pocket to decide what works for you. I have not seen a similar list of gear these days.
Cables - I was asked to trace the fault in a TV when using an old VCR and DVD player. The new 4K TV was purchased with very expensive cables and convertor boxes for legacy SCART connectors to HDMI inputs to the TV. The cables were so heavy that they would disconnect over time on their own. Eventually the cables failed and would not give a signal from a new home theatre PC or HDMI new DVD player. I have had silver cable tangle and break. Cutting them down tracing the break provided me with several half short cables. Mostly it is the solider joint on the plug that dries mostly my own work (DIN 5 pin and RCA phono) but also some purchased ready made. Specification comes into it with long analogue cables and build quality for durability. Are coaxial digital cables different to similar looking RCA analogue cables?
I never had a problem with Bose. I think they not only make great stuff but their products generally sound quite excellent in my opinion. What they did is simplify the experience by creating a lot of user-friendly products which brought in more people into the hobby, of which many would have avoided it due to the potential complexities of the hobby itself, that can quickly become overwhelming in a hurry.
Bose still remains a very influential brand for that reason.
To be fair, Bose’s bad reputation is both justified and unjustified. I used to sell Bose many years ago at Circuit City. I didn’t find them any better or worse than JBL and Infinity - all mediocre big box store speakers. And they were far better than Cerwin Vega speakers. Bose is a particularly easy target because at its core, it’s a brilliant marketing company, invests a lot of money in advertising so it's well known, and they're highly litigious so it’s unlikely you’ll read any bad reviews.
Bose earned a bad reputation by building their speakers out of cheap everything. Then came the $399 clock radio (and let's face it, that is exactly what it is), that they still peddle today to people who don't know any better. I do agree that they do make some nice products and their success has always been in the marketing budget.
@@FelixtheMetalcat Even going as far back as the 901, Bose used many small, low-quality cheap speaker elements wired together with complex equalization circuitry, resulting in large amounts of distortion. But some people are convinced that's what real bass actually sounds like.
Hahaaa, yup. I was never a fan of the ultra expensive 901s either nor could I hear much bass.
@@FelixtheMetalcat I just looked up the price. They appear to be selling for $400 - $900 for the pair, equalizer included, which is pretty cheap. Not clear why you consider that expensive.
Just a tidbit regarding Bose, they no longer manufacture passive speakers for the consumer market in the US (at the moment anyway). The last run of their domestic speaker line appears to be the model 301 that seemed to have had its last production in early 2021. Their current designs and product line for the commercial audio market (music theaters, restaurants, etc.) have also departed significantly since the passing of the company founder.
I have a pair of almost 40 year old Bose 301 II’s connected to my Yamaha TSR700 playing Apple Music “no step” lossless digital masters from my Apple TV 4K (hdmi connection).
I've owned a lot of Bose equipment and while there are better out there they do sound good when set up properly.
make signal cables from solid wire, not stranded. power: use silverplated stranded bigger the better like 3 pieces 14 or 12awg braided together the plug ends are mechanical fit, easiest and biggest improvement. speakers eh really any good copper fine stranded wire, not no 0 awg either 14 awg imo is plenty. tube amps like 16 is plenty.
I have my Bro3's set up so clear you can hear a pin drop in an orchestra...they are by far my cheapest pair of speakers!
Totally agree re the KEF LS50 Metas. I thought they sounded average at best. Sent them back after struggling with them for a few weeks trying to persuade myself that I must be missing something given al the rave reviews online. Love your channel dude!
They sound fantastic with a good well designed Amplifier. They are not a budget speaker and if sold through another brand would cost 3 times as much. Most amplifiers are junk and simply not fit for purpose.
I don’t regret buying them at all. It’s why it’s so important to listen yourself and pick what you like. They ticked all the right boxes for me.
i love the idea of the LS50, concentric driver with everything done to fix inherent limitations of a concentric driver... but they are aesthetically unpleasing to me, and i usually think exposed drivers can look cool
Tidal has a great discount for military/vets/responders and (I think) education. I gave up Amazon hd for them and didn’t really miss it.
Edit; 6ga optical or bust. :-P
Just took the NPR test at my desk with my current setup. Macbook Air (no external DAC) to Hafler 101 DIY to Presonus Eris8 XT. Got 5/6. The JayZ tracks all sounded the same to me, and I actually chose the 128. I can't imagine getting these wrong with even mediocre headphones. Maybe if I had spent $1000 on my 3.5>RCA I would have selected the correct JayZ track. :)
I find that more modern music allready has a bit of electronical distort sound backed into it, even in the voices with autotune, so the verry verry litle distort that mp3 adds it is hard to spot for me. I only got 4 out of 6 right.
But I like the idea of being able to have lossless.
LS50 + Crown XLS1502.
It's magic. These sound damn good even at high volume.
Agree with all your thoughts on Bose. I will add that it is thanks to Bose that I even got into this hobby even though I have never owned a
Bose product. My cousin many years ago had a set of 901s that I actually never heard but was always enamored with so when I finally went to buy a big boy stereo I started looking at Bose. Which then led me to all the criticism of Bose...but it got me going.
Nice Crown amp in the background.
One of the most *UNDERRATED* and *UNDERHYPED* hifi components out there!
Wow you have a lot of gear. Have you tried Edifier speakers?
I just listen to music
I completely agree with you the Kef LS50 has this mental treble which makes my ears bleed. I put back my old cheapie Tannoy Mercury V1 and it was a massive relief. Thank god I did not sell them
Denafrips Ares II is fabulous and worth every penny with two channel stereo. No question about it and no hype.
I kind of agree regarding the ELAC original debut series., Especially when it comes to home theater. I had the C-5 center channel and I struggled to hear dialogue. However, they are actually pretty good for music and I still use the B5’s on my desktop set up occasionally.
Oh Randy you’re so wrong about lossless audio. I took that test using my iPhone speakerphone as the source and I got 11/10 correct. Maybe the reason you can’t tell the difference is because you’re using the stock power cables with your system. I’m going back to getting my audio advice from Best Buy reviews.
coming in hot, Eric! I love it. Lots of reviews on there to help you out.
11 out of 10...excellent!
For those of you not legally awake yet, this was a joke comment... and a funny one at that !
I’m surprised you haven’t reviewed any MartinLogans. I think they are great speakers, and if you look at the resale market for them, it’s quite slim.
I feel the same way about Bose, but the premium Bose system in my wife’s Mazda CX-5 is really good. It has active crossovers and equalization. Sound is quite neutral and clean(after some minor tweaks), and will go loud without noticeable distortion.
I talked to an industry guy who basically said that most audio companies that are in cars make 95% of their revenue from car audio and not from two channel sales and only keep two channel alive for brand recognition. It was shocking to hear, from a business standpoint, how insignificant 2 channel enthusiasts are when it comes to overall business. Sobering to think about. I'd gladly take a Bose system in my CX5. Yeah... that's right, I drive a murdered out CX5. Love that car
@@cheapaudioman Sorry to be off-topic, but it’s great to hear from another CX-5 enthusiast. What a great car! Mazda did some real magic with it. How is yours murdered out? Semi-flat black paint, black interior and black wheels? Inquiring minds would like to know!
Just took the NPR Test and on the 6 songs, there's only one (the coldplay) where i truly heard the quality difference and picked it right. but while i only got 2 songs right out of 6, i never picked the 128kbps mp3.
Also i did the test on my Kitchen speakers which are Bose lol so that may be why
I’m a retired Ultrasound Technologist. In the Ultra world it’s all about the “connection”. Transducer to the cable, cable to the machine you use and finally the connection to the power supply. It’s all critical for the best diagnosis. How much can you spend on chasing that performance? Well, enough to retire.
Sound in the audible range starts the same way, a solid connection. The rest is passion.
The crowd that complains about the LS50 lack of bass is the same crowd that used to turn on the MEGA BASS on their Sony Walkman/Discman.
B.O.S.E. best overpriced speakers ever🙄
No highs, no lows, must be Bose.
Any particular reason why you haven't recommended the Loxjie A30 in the description for under $200? I thought you liked it.
I own a full loom of Audiocadabra cables out of India, for me best price=performance. WBC cables from Amazon are very good, they use pro cable companies Canare, Mogami, Gotham etc.
Got 2 out of 6 correct on the sound test. Using Schiit Fulla E and a pair of AKG K371s. Golden ears? I don't even have silver or bronze ears. Maybe participation ears.
I'm not pro overpriced cables or anything else for that matter. The thing with cables that may give them a sound is capacitance. Capacitance produces phase shift which is a measurement not done in audio gear. Phase shift (along with slew rate) is what makes two equipment with super flat frequency response, low noise and low distortion sound different. But it's not specified in literature as it's difficult to measure and doesn't produce marketing-friendly numbers. IMO, if two good cables with low resistance sound different, it must be the capacitance (despite I don't know how much the typically low capacitance would affect audio frequencies. It's a thing with MC phono (albeit much lower signal levels and the capacitance effect is due to addition to the RIAA circuitry).
I like Bose 601 & 901 speakers. And Yes, KEF LS50 sucks!
I also took the test and it came out as "you likely can take the difference" but all the while I was taking the test I kept thinking "I have no idea what I'm doing"
best cheap audio channel on earth!!
Worlds Best Cables are great!
Bose is big in aviation noise cancelling headsets (headphones and boom mic), recently getting some competition.
Wow! I love my LS50's.
Do not discount the importance of a good (or suitable) amp in the performance of a system. Some may feel that watts are watts with respect to amps. But the truth i s that there is something to be said about system synergy (reference to over hyped speakers or ls50s)
However based on my 2 cents the Bose vehicle audio system on the other hand is amazing and Bose IMHO is best in class within the vehicle audio sector.
It's very rare for me to notice compression distorting a song. Basically only a song that's so jammed with detail that it nearly overwhelms the speakers/headphones anyway will sometimes get a bit "crunchy" and unpleasant. The doom 2016 sound track is an example, sounds a bit better on TIDAL. It's basically the only example I've noticed.
Bose desktop PC speakers have never disappointed me.
I almost ordered the LS50 but instead went for RSL CG25 bookshelf speakers (L/R/C) and they sound pretty good, and look good too... for a lot less money.
the ls50 meta is very very good speaker
another good video.... as i listened to it from my Elac B5.2's, lol. the speakers are fine for what they were meant to be for me: on sale speakers for cheap that I use in my office at work that intentionally has not much bass so as to not disturb the guy in the office next to me. I use different models of speakers at home.
Also, the AT M50x headphones are pretty dandy in my opinion, don't know why the hate from others on those.
As for the lossless argument, I too have done an A/B test and I honestly found that with the equipment I had, I couldn't tell a different above 256kps MP3s. However, I do find that lossless is nice for two things: if i need to convert an audio file to a different format, its always best to convert from lossless. for example, going from one lossy format to another, such as mp3 to WMA to AAC will lose audo quality each time you make the conversion, whereas going from lossless, you only lose audio quality of the end format. The other nice thing about lossless for OCD people like me is knowing that i've got the audio in the highest quality format and there is no need to search for better. I rememeber going through my mp3 library years ago and trying to find the higher kbps version of the song. With lossless audio, the search is over, there's nothing better (except for maybe vinyl, but i'm sticking to digital format here for the discussion)
I just ordered the RCA cables you mentioned in your video. The one that came with my new RT82 are decent but my other RCA cables are crap. I knew I was missing something. My cheapo RCA cables are not properly shielded either and pick up a lot of noise. We shall see how the new ones perform.
Update: The WBC RCA cables came in. The left and right cables are indeed separate. They are not touching each other and there is a label on them showing the direction of the signal travel. They are very beefy and look pretty serious to me. I have connected them but can't tell if they are any better.
The only thing is that I know they are built better and given the thickness, I am sure they are much better shielded than my ordinary garden variety RCA cables. The price was more than I have paid for any RCA cable but not so expensive that they are not affordable. The instruction card says you have to run them for 175 hours to allow them to properly break in. I did not know RCA cables or any cable needed a break-in period!
Spotify just somehow sounds muddy compared to Tidal or Apple Music on non-lossless settings
Cables, you need decent but not crazy expensive. I once got a quote for cables that were $150 a foot. Take the Pepsi challenge and A/B normal decent cables and crazy high end cables. Question 1, is there a difference? Is it worth the cost? Guessing a blind test will sort your prejudgment.😅
I only use lossless audio formats for my recording masters [duh]. I used to export them in wav format, but it took up a bunch of space when storage was more expensive, so I ended up converting all to mp3, I think 160 kbps. Couldn’t tell a difference until I got to about 110 kbps.
So I’d recommend to anyone keeping source audio to use at least CD quality, maybe even high def audio, so you can provide files in other formats for others. Otherwise, if I am just a listening to a copy I find it to be wasted storage on my computer to keep lossless format audio
I think we can all say with absolute certainty that redbook is better than Spotify. I don't think anyone would be mistaken between the two. Redbook vs hi-res? Thats a better question. As a roon user, you're able to switch between versions of the same recording on the fly and more often than not, my cd rips sound better than hi-res, less "clinical" and more energy. That being said, with a good oversampling DAC like the Ares, Spotify certainly has its place in my listening sessions. And i certainly hope Spotify never goes lossless. Its lossy compression that makes Spotify a great product. It streams flawlessly on the go, in cars, at the gym, heck it loads so fast you can lose cell service and Spotify will chug right along because its preloaded so much data. This is what Spotify is best at & i hope they realize that, i think they do.
The LS-50 needs the right amp and the right subwoofer!
Yep, to make up for its shortcomings.
@@thisisnev Show me a small speaker with a 5” driver that doesn’t benefit from a sub!
All bose did is the same thing Logitech did, took advantage of the invention of neodymium which led to full range speakers.
Way late here. Well, I can't hear over 8ooo Hz on cd or uTube frequency response tests, so...... ( my ears are as bad as my eyes, 20 / 300. I'm 74 ). I agree maybe with Bosse being very influential, if not strictly an ' audiophile slant. I give great credit to the original AR company, developed both acoustic suspension AND dome tweeters, both mainstays today.
I have LS50 metas, they're fine thou it is obvious ( to me ) they are designed to be used with a SUB for any sort of audiophile listening. to me the sub not only produces the low notes - the low E string on bass guitar. but takes the low freq / high excursions out of the little 5 in speak, thus cleaning up their response. oh, I have defiantly had problems with 'stiff' cables a couple times damaging the connects. I believe in basic ' one step up' quality - original Mons. cable - 12 ga speak. wire and interconnects.
Rega; A Planar 1 is equiv $365 inc our 20% tax here in UK. Looks like you pay over $100 more in the US changing its value proposition...
Loseless audio can only be appreciated with floor standing or bookshelf speakers. Its nearly impossible to discern differences on a pair of headphones.
Audio Technica, awsome!!!
Found kef ls50s for 550 euros, b stock (600 if o wanted new).
I doubt I can get anything as good for less than 700 eur.
For metal I preferred the HD600 over 650, in the store at least. I didn't buy either in the end but it really stuck with me how visceral they sounded playing some Opeth, with so much detail in the gutteral vocals, and the intensity of the guitars, everything force-fed into your ears at once.
I have the 650 since they just came out. Heard a lot of headphones afterwards, but none of these had so little listening fatigue. You really can listen to them all day. That's not the case with the '8' series Sennheisers in my opinion .
@@asphalthedgehog6580 I did also find the 650s to be less fatiguing. The 600/650 comparison is the closest I've heard from two different headphones, with the only distinction I remember being that 600 clobbers you with all the details while 650 just hangs them on a well lit gallery wall.
There may well be a bit more or a bit less to it, I was in a noisy store at the time, and they're both open-back.
And what about Peet's coffee? Does a good hot light & sweet mug of Peet's improve the sound? Or would you recommend black coffee only ? Isn't Starbuck's overRATED??? hahaha! Fun videos! I am actually picking up quite a bit of good knowledge thanks to you, Randy! good job!
so far as bose goes, I think the irritation comes primarily when the tin earred brag on the brand or say it's the BEST!
I give them kudos for reformulating their signature sound from no highs no lows to a very warm bright treble (the CA sound?) formula that works well for most commercial mainstream recordings especially in settings where critical listening isn't demanded (automotive sound systems, small public performance PA systems, etc.)
but definitely still not audiophile level
FLAC is an excellent loosless format, that's why Qobuz and HDtracks choose this format for stream and delivery, for me it's the only one that keep the sound as it was record on the original Wav or Aiff PCM master, i do a phase reverse test with an original wave 96 KHZ 24 Bit i made on my DAW i reverse the phase of the wav and the flac version side by side, compare to a AAC or MP3 you loose nothing it's dead silent because of the phase reverse nature, on MP3 and AAC you heard all the frequencie garbage we loose it's sound like broken speaker with some wierd transient sound mixed with pink noise.