Thanks so much!!! My guy has walked me through it once, but I’ve never been able to do it again. One part of the house has been without heat for months in this Alaskan winter. The garage heat went out, I tried burping, didn’t work....until I just caught your video!! I’d left a step out! Both are working now!!! Thanks so much!!
Hello Stacey Wright, You're welcome! It can be pretty cold to have no heat in that part of the world. I am glad everything worked out for you! Congrats on getting things back in working order. Drove to Alaska two years ago. Beautiful country!!! We will be back for another visit at some point and time! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Thanks AL, great reminder , just replaced a air purge popper valve an flushed the system. Have 4 valves , so I made up a water hose an used a mop bucket to get the air out of pipes .
Thanks for posting this. I have 1 zone with that splits out to the North and South of the 2nd floor. The north side baseboards would not get hot, while the south side baseboards were toasty.. There must have been bubbles in there. Watched the video and purged the system. Took about 25 gallons to get all the bubbles out. Now it's hot on both sides. Your video made it much easier to do. Thanks.
Hello Kabir, You're welcome! Great to hear! Congrats on the repair! Hopefully everything will be warm this winter! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
I've got it... I understand. A bit tricky at first.. But then once I took my time, and watched your video several more times... I've identified the return valve. What I meant by "lever" valves was, they're not circular, but a "stem" if you would...you know? With red plastic covers on them...Sorry maybe that's not the right name for them, they just look like they'd be called "levers"....Thank you SOOO much for your guidance in the video and your quick response back AL....PEACE.
Thank you for the reply! I had replaced all my fin tubing in my house when I bought it after someone had stole the copper. I was starting to get nervous that I didn't install bleeders at all the sections. This video and your advice took a little weight off my shoulders. It also gives me some better idea of how to plumb upp everything at the boiler: regulators, shutoffs, outlets etc. Thanks again!
This video saved me from cancelling my vacation. Had no heat on 2nd floor my house. After replacing the thermostat which needed to updated, there was no heat. I thought I had did something wrong when I did the wiring on installing the new thermostat. Took it apart and checked the wiring
I managed to keep the water coming into a different opening at a reasonable pressure to keep it around 15 psi. That pressure reducing valve is definitely blocked with sediment - I will need to get a plumber to replace it. Thanks for all of your help!
Condensed version: shut off ALL zone valves and ALL return valves in ALL zones. Starting on lowest level zone (basement or ground), connect hose to that zone's drain pipe. Open drain valve and lift lever on pressure reducing valve to apply full water pressure to force air out. When air bubbles stop, lower lever on pressure reducing valve. Check gauge that pressure is below 30PSI. If ok then close drain valve at hose. WARNING: Do not close valve at hose if pressure is above 30PSI. Normal pressure should be closer to 10PSI. Repeat for next higher zone. When all zones have been bleed open all zone valves and all return valves in all zones.
Thanks to @mattfoley6082 for this very clear, concise restatement of the process. For me this answered essential questions I still had after viewing the very helpful video.
Hello toomyw; Glad it worked out for you and you are more then welcome! Those zones that split like that can be a pain in the backside for sure. And yes it takes a great deal more time and water then on a single loop. I recently changed a split loop to a single for a friend of mine and he is as pleased as punch! Much easier to purge now! Thanks very much for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello Robert; You are more then welcome! I hope you got along well with the repair! Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Compliments of the season to you! Al
Hello Lisa from B.C., You're welcome! You get the most efficiency along with a much quieter system if all the air is removed. Hopefully the project went well for you! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello Thebodells; You are more then welcome! I am glad everything worked out for you and congrats on the repair! Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
Part 2; Watch your gauge as you don't want the pressure to go above 20 pounds.Relief valve will pop at 30 PSI.So be careful!Once you have hooked open your zone valve,turned off your return valve,placed a hose on the drain valve of the loop and opened the drain valve;lift the lever and watch the gauge.You want your pressure 15 to 20. You can control this by the lifting the lever a bit at a time.Once there are no bubbles,let go of the lever,turn off the drain valve and reverse everything.GL! Al
Hello alyosha1974; If you do not have a zone valve on your heating system then you would have a flow control valve on coming off the top of the boiler because something has to keep the hot water in the boiler and a flow control would do this. They are very common! You are correct in your statement! Do exactly what you saw in the video and this will eliminate the air in the system! No zone valve is just one less step! Thanks for the kind words and best of luck! Al
Hello buddyboy4x44, You are more than welcome! I hope the repair goes well for you. One of the problems that people end up with is a little air in the line afterwards. So be sure to purge the loops long enough and you should be all set. Thanks for the kind words and enjoy your week! Al
Very detailed video... Should my thermostat be set to off before I purge the system? Also will sit push its way back down to the basement from the second floor?
Hello jaybotb; The water feed is called a pressure reducing valve. When I am purging; I lift the lever on top of the valve and this allows more pressure to enter the system. When doing this you must watch the pressure gauge as you don't want more then 15 to 18 pounds in the system. 30 psi and the relief valve will pop. By the sounds of things your reducing valve is plugged, but you should get more pressure when you lift the lever straight up. Make SURE to watch the gauge. Read part 2.
Hello atvkid0805; In order for the water to continue to run you may have to lift the brass lever on the pressure reducing valve. This will allow the water to enter the boiler. When lifting the lever you must watch your gauge as the pressure will build and pop the relief valve if you don't. You don't wan the pressure to go above 20 pounds when purging, once it has reached that pressure;you can gently drop the lever and regulate the pressure using the lever. Tks for commenting and G.L. Al
Thx for the reply. Definitely not anti freeze. I think has to so with anti corrosion. It's a 2900sq ft house with 4 zones. I'll for sure try your vid technique as the whooshing is annoying.
Hi TheOldkidd888, i didn't realize that i was using my son account (MrBurogski) . Anyways, thank you very much. I now have heat upstairs. All the best. :):):)
Hi Al i am a handy man and i did a job for some one. and they ask me if i could get the heat. Working for them on 2nd floor. and put a new baseboard heater in bathroom. they had no heat on 2nd floor. for 5 years. and had it bled 4 times. By people that said they fixed it. So i saw your video. and called them the next day . And said ill give it a try. I did every thing your video showed me and Now they have heat and i have a happy Customer. Thanks Frank
thanks! I did all 4 zones, kept the pressure in check! This "gurgling" started when I had to have the circulation pump replaced, along with 2 pressure relief valves and the acustat? (gray electric control box in front). The plumber (who I just met) also suggested replacing the feed water valve. Since i didnt know how much money I was in for at that point, and he had been here for 2 days, I said i would hold off on that until next time. Do you think its a good idea to replace that as well?
@shaqmoney2001 Hello there; That is correct. Baseboard radiation is usually looped from one room to the next. If you are going to add another 5 foot section, you will have to purge that zone (loop).One of the big mistakes made by many people is that they don't put in enough radiation. I generally try and go with 1 foot of radiation for every 10 square feet of floor space. A room 10 x 10 would then have 10 feet. Hope that helped. Thanks for your comments and enjoy your day!!! Al
Hello mrussokmbs; Your circulating pump is on the return line correct? Is there a valve below the pump itself? Sometimes installers will save themselves a few dollars and not install a valve either below or above the pump. There has to be a valve there or else you will just get the water out of the boiler. Is this a new system by chance? Send me as info as you can about the valves on it...Thanks Al
Hi Theoldkid888, enjoy your videos, can you tell me if I need to drain out my hotwater baseboard system, if I plan to add a new five foot secton? is just in series right? thanks
Hello perogi21; You are more then welcome! You have to hook the zone valve open when purging the system! The water does come in through the pressure reducing valve.The PRV can become blocked with sediment. This is very common,but when you are purging you can lift the brass lever on top of the valve as this will increase the pressure.Be careful when doing this as the relief valve blows off at 30PSI.So lift a little bit a time and you can regulate it this way. Let me know how you get along! Al
Hello Thomas; You can do this any time of the year.Whenever I change a boiler I do this procedure.The water is going to be hot for sure. I am hoping that your heating water is not set on 200 degrees on the high limit! I have never had a problem with cracking on a boiler myself. If you are concerned about that you can leave your system on and the cold water will be heated as soon as it enters the boiler. Thanks 4 commenting and G.L. Al
great video...I have water dripping out of the weep hole on my pump. should I replace the bearing assembly? this will break the system and I will have to bleed the system, correct? Also, after reading your comments, I checked my gauge and it reads 35 pounds! Been here 14 years and never touched anything, could gauge be wrong?
Hi theodkid888,great videos, If I want to purge the system to add another section, do I have to shut the feed that is just before the pressure reducing valve so that the system is total dry before cutting into it so that I can sweat the pipe? and follow the steps above. shut feed,shut return, and open zone valve then open the drain valve to purge right? thanks in advance.
Hello Al. Thank you for your videos. . I have to relocate one of hydronic baseboard heaters and I am trying to figure out how to drain my system, relocate/ replace the baseboard and then fill and purge the system. Here is some information about my setup: My house is a colonial and the boiler is in the basement. I have two zones, one for the first floor and one for the second floor. The second floor zone has 2 loops. The zone valves are Taco and are installed at the supply side. There is a 00e Taco circulator pump on the supply side. The 3 loops return (2 second floor and 1 first floor) meet and are controlled by 1 shut off valve on the return before the boiler. Above the shut off valve there is a drain valve. Before the 3 returns connect together there seem to be something like a valve that can be turned with a flathead screwdriver, not sure what that is. I looked online and people say a balance valve (?). I would appreciate your help. I can send you picture of the system somehow. Thank you in advance! Chrys
Hello Chrys, You're welcome! Is the baseboard you are planning to reroute on the first or second floor? Do you have an expansion tank which is about 3 feet long and usually suspended up in between the joists or do you have an extrol tank that would be about a foot high and wide located near the boiler? The funny looking valve is called a pressure reducing valve. Never adjust it comes preset. Get back to me when you get a chance and we will see if we can figure this out together....Al
Hello Al, Thank you for your quick response. I have the second type of expansion tank that you described. The one I want to relocate now is in the first floor, but I might add a few more feet of baseboard on my master bedroom eventually because it seems to be under heated. What if I touched those valves...?
Hello kouts_limnos, No big deal as long as you put them back to how they were. So you must shut the heating system down completely. Meaning both the power and the water shut off to the system. That valve should be located before the pressure reducing valve (the one with the lever on top). You may not have the lever on your reducing valve as it may be the your PRV as you mentioned above.You want to drain the loop you are working; so you will need to drop the pressure to zero. I believed you mentioned that you only have one valve on the return which is too bad because you are going to drain water from the all three zones and will have to purge them individually once you have relocated your radiation. Regardless place a hose on the drain valve of the return and open until the water stops completely. Be sure to check the gauge on the boiler. It is your friend when it comes to the system. The pressure must reach zero before you attempt to do any pipe cutting. Once it has dropped to zero and the water has stopped flowing out of the hose you can begin to cut the copper. I always use a wet vac when I am making any cuts on baseboard as it takes care of the dirty water that will stain things easily. If you are making these cuts in the basement then you will probably get a way with a bucket. A little tip. Whenever I am rerouting a pipe I always use sandcloth to clean the pipe before I make any cuts as it is much easier to do beforehand. It is supported at this time and can be shined easily. Once a cut has been made the end of the pipe will bounce all over the place. It will still need a little shine after each cut, but doing it will take care of the majority of the dirt on it. Not sure when you are planning to do this, but spring is better than winter. Just in case you run into any issues. You mentioned adding radiation to your bedroom. My rule of thumb is the square foot of the room divided by ten. Ten by ten room...10 feet of baseboard plus an additional few feet for an average window. In that ball park. I have had great success with this simple formula. Many homes have far to less radiation. So many people install it like electrical baseboard which you cannot make a comparison to. I have seen kitchens which are generally the hardest places to install baseboard with two feet under each window in a corner on a north wall. They said the house was never warm. Very good reason for that. Anyway...hope this helps! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al Get back to if you have any more questions.
@@TheOldkid888 Hi Al, I am not planning on doing this until it warms up around end of March or so. Here is my plan of action. Let me know if you agree. I will turn the power and the water supply off. I forgot to mention that I have an indirect hot water heater. I will turn the supply to that off as well. Connect a hose to the drain and turn the shut off valve below it off. I will also turn off the valve before and after the circulating pump. Then I will open the drain valve and go upstairs and open the bleeder valve that is further from the boiler. Then I will wait until all the water is out of the system and the pressure is 0. After I finish with the moving around. I will turn the bleeder off, turn the water supply on, turn the valves before and after the circulating pump on. Manually turn both zone valves on and wait until no more air is coming out of the drain hose, making any necessary adjustments on the water pressure. when no more air in the system I will ensure the pressure is around 14psi turn the drain off and check for leaks. I thinking if I should install a shut off valve on each zone loop before they connect to the 1" pipe together. Also, my master bedroom is definitely underheated. It is 20x13 with 3 windows and only has 15 feet of baseboard. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thank you, Chrys
Hello Chrys, It sounds good. I personally like to put individual valves on all lines. One on the each return line and supply line. You have a shut off on either side of the pump which will isolate the pump if you ever need to replace it which is great! If you place valves above each zone valve; this will make replacing the zone valves very easy. It is not necessary, but convenient. I am a big fan of ball valves. The only way to go. The indirect water heater will be fine. No need to shut the water supply off or drain any water from it. BE SURE to close the bleeder before opening the feed valve to the system. MOST IMPORTANT as you know! Sounds like you have it all under control. Remember zero pressure. Allowing air into the system will drain that loop, but it may not drain the one you are working on; so opening a bleeder on each is what I would do. Best of luck with the project! REMEMBER TO CLOSE before filling. Can't stress it enough. That size bedroom should have at 26 feet in it. It should go across the 13 and then down the longer wall at least 15. If it gets to warm; you can always close the dampers on the baseboard somewhat. Most people like their bedrooms a little cooler for sleeping so closing the dampers will make a difference. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
I am not getting heat upstairs on my baseboard. I have 2 zones 1 in the basement and the other one is on the 1st flr. When you are purging do you need to open the water feeder (that looks like a taco bell) or it is automatic that water will flow thru the pipes when you drain the water. My psi when hot is 10, if its cold 5 psi. Do i need to anything to adjust my psi? I would appreciate it very much if you can get back to me please.
So if you have 4 zones (in addition to the hot water storage tank) do you have to purge each zone? I followed your instructions and it worked very well for the first zone. When I attempted to purge the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, there was almost no air to be purged. Now, a week later, i hear the gurgling again in the pipes, so i'm about to purge again.
Hello Tim; So the first zone you purged is working well. You have to purge each zone individually; you probably no that. Did you use a 5 gallon bucket when you were purging each zone. I find this the best way to do it because when you see no air bubbles; you know it is purged well. this will probably take about 5 minutes to do each one. I lift the lever on top of the pressure reducing valve (feed water valve) and get the pressure around 15 to 20 pounds. Read part 2.
Hello Dondra Chambers; You may not be doing anything wrong. The drain on the return line is where you purge the system. You must close the return valve below the drain valve and hook the lever on the zone valve. You should get water then. The pressure on your boiler should read 12 pounds when cold. The PRV on the boiler sometimes plugs with sediment. You will see a lever on top of the prv; a brass lever, you may have to hold it upright to fill the system.Watch your pressure on the gauge.
Great vid. I have three zones and each zone/pipe has a drain valve. Only one zone/pipe has a shut-off valve, but it is after the drain valve. The only other shut-off is for water going into the boiler. So do I close the shut-off valve that is after the drain valve while purging? Won't this shut-off prevent any water/air from purging from that pipe? Thx
Hello tsgrimey, You could possibly be able to purge the air out of the system like this depending upon what is on your system. So you would be looking for a return valve on the lower pipe going into the boiler. above that you would find a drain valve. If these are both there it is just a matter of closing the return valve, then opening the drain valve (I attach a hose to it so that I don't have to hold the bucket) and draining water into a bucket. If you don't have zone valves you probably have two flow control valves on the top of the boiler going to each zone. I am not sure if there are valves on the pipe leaving your boiler or not. If there isn't you would have to screw the top of each flow control down to close them in order to purge each loop. Before you begin anything go to your baseboard and remove both end covers on one radiator and check for a manual air vent. Each section of baseboard may have to be bled individually in each room. This is where I would begin to look. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance.....Al
Great video. After watching this video I do not know if you can help. I have a split ranch home with 3 zones for 3 floors. The upstairs floor gets plenty of heat, the second (middle floor) gets no heat & the first floor, where the boiler is get a little heat. The circulator pump is working the zone vales are open. My problem I have three zones and they join into one pipe without any return shutoff valve and I do not have a pressure reducing valve like you have in the video. The supply line goes to a fitting like the one that is in the video at 2:27 with an expansion tank & air bled. When I try to bleed the line I cannot remove all the bubbles plus the water stop flowing, pressure goes to 0. Your help will be appreciated.
Hello Joe, There has to be some reducing valve to keep the pressure low or your relief valve would be flowing continuously. It may not look like the one in the video, but there should be one somewhere in the line feeding the boiler. Follow it back and see if you can find one. Does the pressure rise after you purge the loop and are you isolating a valve on either end of the loops? By turning off the power on boiler that will close all the zone valves. A return valve must be closed to purge the air properly. Is there a single valve below or above the circulating pump on the return? This was a common practice on older systems. Having low pressure generally causes the second floor to lose heat first. Get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Hey Al thank you for replying so quickly. With the supply side open I do not understand how it went to 0 PSI when I opened the return line to purge. As I mentioned it does not have a pressure reducing valve, ( or I just can not find it)so I do not know what is blocking the inflow or keeping it from building up too much pressure. The water supply is from a well. When I shut the drain valve it takes a long time to regain pressure. There isn’t any shut off below the circulating pump on the return. If you have any time to look at it I took a short 2 min 30 sec video to show how it is set up. I do not know how to send it to you by you tube. Do you have an email that I can send it? Any suggestions on how I can get the other zone free of air. If possible I rather not have to open the lines due to the weather if possible.
I tried it with & without the circulator pump on. The pump does help but I did not let it run too long. When it started to make a gurgling noise I shut the pump off. Not sure if the pump would be damaged if no or not enough water flow through it. As far as a pressure reducing valve It looks like I have an automatic one that is attached to the expansion tank. Found this while looking up parts.
Thanks so much for this video! Q; Is it is possible for some of the return valves to have different on/off positions compared to the others? My system is quite old and all of the valves are globe type. There are no visible on/off markings and only 1 has noticeable travel in the pin to indicate whether it is open or closed. It seems that it's open position is opposite to the other return valves. Does clockwise always mean closed, or could someone have installed some of them incorrectly?
@yahmoncool likely air in the line a good purge would help. But possibly an air hammer arrester, or a vertical pipe for the air in the line to collect.
Hello M Lassi, You're welcome! Hopefully it helps with your issue. This is a very common problem with hot water systems and hopefully your repair went well! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello mark.r hvac, It is how I install the feed lines, but I have seen them on the flow as well. It should be installed in the return as it pushes the air up through the system when purging. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Thanks so much. 2 things: My return valve is actually before my spigot. Is that a mistake in the system? Also - 4 zones (each with a zone valve), but 1 circulator, 3000 sq foot house - How much water might be in the pipes? I'm wondering how many bucket-fulls of water I might go through. Thanks
Jello Jerry; On the return line below the drain valve (spigot) going back to the boiler; there should be a shut off above and below the circulating pump. If there is only one valve there you can shut it off and then purge each zone individually. As far as how much water is in the system; it is hard to say, but I would say that 3 to 4 buckets would be good for each loop. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the repair! Al
Worked out just fine after attempting this a second time, once all the crazy noises passed. Thanks a bunch. There's a small valve type thing on top of the expansion tank which allows air into the system, has a black and a red nozzle on it, any suggestions on what I need to do with this ? The nozzles are adjustable, just not sure on their function.
Hello sonic, Either way it will work for you. At this time of the year I would suggest trying it with the power on. A few five gallon bucket of water should do the trick for you. Use a hose and place it in the bottom of the bucket and you will be able to see the air bubbles coming out of the system. Hope this helps! Drop me a line and let me know how you get along. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the repair! Al
So my i hear water running through my baseboards. Not gurgling so much. But like someone turned on your outside hose and you hear it running from inside the house. Is that normal operation or should it be quiet? 1st time with baseboard heaters.
Hello Rons Beers & Ales, You probably have flow control valves on each loop. You can still purge it the same you would as if you had zone valves. You just wouldn't have to worry about hooking any levers. Simply shut off the return valve and attach a hose to the sediment valve above it. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
Hello Rons Beers & Ales, You have changed the expansion tank and the feed water valve. Generally it is the expansion tank. If the boiler is turn off for a while and the pressure is still building; you're coil is proabably the issue. Unfortunately you will need to get that replaced. I believe it could be cast iron? If so; you should be all set if it is. You managed to find the problem. Now to make the repair. Thanks for commenting and good luck! Let me know how you get along! Al
THE OLDKID888, YES i WILL LET u KNOW WHAT i DID. mY NEPHEW IS SPEAR HEADING THE WORK, I shut of all pertinent valves, drained the boiler at 11:00 Am. by 4:00 PM it was full of water and PSI was 30. We then drained some water isolated the tankless coil, and the PSI has held at 20 / 25PSI and the relef valve stopped dripping water. so its narrowed down to the tankless coil.
Can you do this when the heater has been running or hot? Should I turn off the heat before attempting. Also..I have three zone heat. I have 3 boxes on wall and 3 valves (one for each zone) should I do this procedure to each zone at a time? Just noticed in your video you have 2 zone with 1 valve. Thanks in advance.
Hello Jeff; You can turn the furnace off during this procedure, but you don't really have to. You have to do each zone separately. Some installations that I come across only have one valve on the return. You turn that one valve off and purge each zone separately. I personally, install an individual valve on every return line. You can then isolate each zone separately. Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Hi Al...my husband and I have been purging our system on the 2nd floor to no avail. I have several questions. #1 if the water is coming out slowly, how many times do you raise the pressure and how often as you purge? #2 - we have 2-zone heat...I think the zone valve for the 2nd floor is shot because we purged yesterday and closed that valve back up again and the heat stopped coming through the return pipes. Can we merge the 2 zones into 1? THANK YOU SO MUCH! Charleen
Hello Charleen Schwartzman; If you hold the lever on the pressure reducing valve slightly upwards a little more and not all the way; this will increase the pressure slowly. Watch the tradicator (gauge) to make sure it doesn't go above 20 while purging. This will push all the air out of the system for you. Once you have removed all the air from the system; close your drain valve and release your lever on the pressure reducing valve. You want to look at the gauge again after you have purged and make sure it is at a minimum of 12 pounds. This should be where it should at to get the water circulating upstairs. I would say that the pressure reducing valve is partially plugged and will not allow enough water pressure in the system to get to the second floor. For every foot of rise; you need almost half a pound of pressure (.434 ) One pound of pressure will lift water 2.31 feet. So if you have 14 feet to go up in height; you need at least 6 pounds of pressure. Over time pressure reducing valves plug off, but by lifting the lever and watching your gauge you can feed the system to where it is working fine. When the boiler is hot; the pressure should be around 18 to 20 pounds. How to check to see if your zone valve is working or not.....Turn down your thermostats to the point where they are definitely off. Then turn the thermostat that you think is not working for you up all the way. Go to the zone valve and try and slide the lever on the valve back and forth. If it slides easily; then your valve should be fine. Someone can stand there and turn the thermostat down again and the lever should slide back to where it originated at. DO NOT PUT 20 POUNDS PRESSURE IN THE SYSTEM AFTER PURGING! Check the tradicator (gauge) and be sure to have no more then 12 to 14 pounds of pressure in your system. When the boiler is working it will expand the water and the pressure will increase. Hope this helps..... Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
Wondering if you could advise me on how to proceed with my heating issue. I have an oil furnace with baseboard in the basement which does not appear to be heating in the basement area. The upstairs thermostat is working and heating. The basement has it's own thermostat, it does not appear to be working properly to active the heat; which at this time of year could be a problem. Could this basement heating issue be a zone problem or a thermostat issue, the breaker box looks ok so puzzled at what to do next? Could you please be so kind as to advise on next step to check problem? Thank you for your time and advice in advance. Thanks, Shep
Hello Shep; I would get someone to turn the thermostat up and look at the zone valve when they do turn it up. Watch to see if the lever moves over on the zone valve. If it does not try sliding the metal lever over by hand. It should move easy. Sometimes the lever on the zone valve will move, but the lever will not move, but this doesn't mean the zone valve didn't open. Sliding the lever over easily means that it did. If the zone valve opened; then you have an air lock in the system because the circulating pump is pumping heat into the other part of the house. You then have to purge it to remove the air and you should be all set. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the repair! Al Let me know how you get along.
Thanks for sharing., Is there no hi vent on this system. I replaced my stuck hi vent($16) and that solved the gurgle. I want to know about using the public water system to prevent freezing in a power/service outage. I believe by putting water into the boiler drain valve it will come out the air drain valve, preventing a freeze up. What's your opinion?
Hello Dave; You are more then welcome! By having a flow of steady water anywhere in the house as in a faucet turned on to a low trickle will prevent the line from freezing. Many people have done this over the years. I have never heard of anyone doing this when it comes to a heating system, but if you were supplying the system with water and using it in the same manner as purging then your zones would not freeze as long as you had a steady flow. It would not have to be too high for it to work. I like that train of thought. No reason why it shouldn't. Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
thanks, the pipes are in the walls so i am afraid they could freeze before the boiler cooled enough to run the water, maybe better to just drain it out? Lots of BS when its cold with baseboard, adding glycol reduces efficiency? Any efficient no freeze additives? Cheers!
Hello Dave 06516; If you were to purge water through the pipes and boiler steady you would have no issues with freezing. It would have to be monitored, but it would work. It would be very hard to drain all the water out of the system as the lines go up and back down on every rad. You do lose a little as far as antifreeze goes; all depending on what product you use. Some are more efficient then others. There is a number of different types. Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Hello Luc, You open just one zone valve at a time. If you have three zones and one is a problem then you would open one zone valve manually, close the return valve and open the drain valve above the valve on the return line. How many zones do you have on your system? Get back to me when you get a chance....Al
@@TheOldkid888 hey thanks for the reply! I have 4 zones and it was piped weirdly! I have 1 drain valve fpr the whole system! I'm having issues with a squeeky noise from the circulation pump. Bearing and motor was replaced in February for same noise issue. Found out by reading a lot it was caused by trapped air in the impeller periodically. So bleeding the system is the last option to try!
Hello Luc, If you only have one return and one valve it is just a matter of closing the one valve that shuts the return down and then open each zone valve manually while draining the water into a large bucket. I like using a hose so that you will see air bubbles leaving the system. Big thing is to keep the pressure up on the system while purging. Lifting the lever on the pressure reducing valve will keep the pressure up. Lift it, but don't hold it open the entire time. Watch the gauge so you can lower the lever periodically to control the pressure. Throttling the lever up is the best way to go. You will hear the water flowing in. What is the name of the circulating pump? Is it a compact pump or is the motor and pump housing separated by a coupler which has a place to install oil? Do you only get the sound when the pump is running and not the burner? Is it an oil or gas burner? Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance...Al
Hello Believeit, The valve should be located in line on the lower section of the boiler. Sometimes there is only one valve that isolates every zone on that end. It should be just above the pump. I always install a valve above and below the pump in case it has to be changed. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Soooo, I did it this way. THANK YOU! Had to use street pressure for 5minutes to get all the air out of one zone since it splits off(just bought the house).But how do I get the remaining air out of the boiler...without cracking it from cold water. Takes to long to cool off since need it now since it's cold out.My street water comes into the auto pressure thing that you can lift for street pressure. But where that comes into is on the back end of the boiler (output side?) and T,s into output on top of boiler. With this setup do I have to ever worry about cracking the boiler ? Mine gets to 20-30psi with valve down and almost 200F(190?)Had MANY plumbers out that couldn't fix the master bedroom since they would only fill one bucket, I used a hose outside for 5 minutes. Bleed other zone too Turned return on Still a LITTLE air in there from being in the boiler I assume. Thanks
Hello Michael, You are more than welcome! Although it sounds like air is in the boiler it is probably in a loop. Any air in the boiler would rise to the top of the boiler and go into the header and into the loop from there. How many zones do you have? Do you have an automatic air vent on an air scoop coming off the supply line? You will have to purge the system a little more to remove the remaining air. You are definitely in the right direction since you have removed most of the air so far. What type of boiler do you have? Is it cast iron or steel? The auto pressure thing is called a pressure reducing valve. Just to be clear..Is the feed line that supplies water to the boiler going into the supply on the top of it or into the bottom on the return? You are almost there. Shouldn't be much to remove the remaining air once we figure out a few details. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance. Al
Well, I kind of have to do it without air purge valves since I want a plumber to do it just in case that build up causes it to have to be welded. The good ones I know aren't available for easy task yet lol. Boiler is a slant and fin cast iron oldie I believe. I think the little that was left in there may have went theougj the faulty purge valves or not made a huge difference after I heard it once. A night of sleep last night since that zone unairlocked itself lol! Didn't sound like my house was flooding or rainin from inside. Thank you. Yeah, I was assuming I'd have to just keep purging it like that until boiler had no more air since faulty high vents. I need a high vent installed in bedroom that was highest point, but street pressure for 5 minutes was able to fix that! Was mainly scared to crack it with cold water. The water comes in 2 ft above where it first leaves the boiler (end of supply, start of return--it goes in there then splits up to baseboards then finally to bottom of boiler at return). After having it on for 5 minutes I could feel the heat transfer off the T pipe which was getting closer to the boiler (cold water getting close to boiler) and stopped bleeding because temp dropped 50F. Thankful it was just enough time. Hope makes sense and all set now, but still scared I risked cracking it or blowing up lol. Could send pic.
Oh yeah it was two zones, purged them both. Figured that if I didn't have my heat on and baseboards were cool then I turned on furnace (cold or hot) that inside warms up anyways then opens the zone and mixes the ice cold water into the boiler water first somehow so it doesn't crack....if I was wrong I got lucky.
Hello Michael, I am glad it all went well for you! Congrats on the repair! It could possibly crack the boiler if it was cold water going into it, but it sounds like you have it under control. Nothing exploded, you slept and no more gurgling sound! Thumbs up! Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Hi Theoldkid888, I am getting air in my hot water line ONLY. My shower sputters when turned to hot, and I have water hammer on my clothes washer but only when set to "warm" or "hot." Do you know why this would be and how I could fix? Thanks!
Hello Al, how do I bleed the air out of my boiler? The way it was setup is that there’s no shut off return valve between zone valve and spigot[sediment valve]. The cold water main feed goes to water pressure regulator tied in below the zone valve then to circulator pump(return line) then goes back to the boiler ,the spigot valve is above the zone valve. Please help and Thanks in advance
Hello sakitlikod1, Just to be clear....Is there any valve on the return line going back into the boiler? Do you have cast iron rads or is it baseboard? We will try and figure this out. Just need as much info as I can get. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance.....Al
Hello. I am curious how this method forces air that may be "floating" at the highest point of a circuit. It seems like it would just hover there rather then being forced all the way down to the basement.
Hello shakefly, From what you have explained that would be the valve you turn off. From there you would purge each zone separately. Thanks for commenting and best luck with the project! Al
Thank you!. My system looks fairly simple compared to some friends. I have the 3 purge spigots, right below behind them are the thermostats that I can change from automatic to open, then the 3 pipes converge and there is a yellow valve handle, and then below that is a teal colored, what I am assuming is a pump of some sort. Thank you for your help!
Hello shakefly, You are more than welcome! You should be all set. Remember to purge them one at a time and everything should work out well for you. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
Al, When you use the pressure reducing valve, to increase the pressure - in case it goes to low or you just want to force more air out and increase the pressure. Lets say the pressure goes to 20 psi. but you want only 15 psi, after adding pressure to the system, how do you get the pressure to go down to 15 psi again ?Thank youSteven
Hello Steve, I put the pressure up to a constant 20 psi to purge all the air out of the system. If you don't keep the pressure up when purging you will not remove all the air. After purging the system and the sir is removed; you open the sediment faucet that you used to purge and you can drop the pressure back to where you want it. If it drops too low simply lift the lever on the reducing valve and you can adjust it between 12 and 15 pounds. The valve should automatically adjust the pressure to 12 pounds if it is not plugged with sediment. Thansk for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
thank you for your wonderful video, and I purged my 4 zone system, but one of my 1st floor family room, the bubble would not stop. I ran the the water out for 10 minutes , but it wouldn't go away. can you tell me why I am not getting the bubble free drain? thank you
Hello Moon Hee Kim, You're welcome! There could be more a little more radiation on that loop, so when you purge the system you made have to increase the pressure and keep it a little more constant. Bring it up to about 20 pounds by lifting the lever on the pressure reducing valve while keeping an eye on the gauge so that it doesn't get near 30 psi. Purge the system with added pressure will push all the air out of the loop. Do you have an automatic air vent on the system? Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Thank you for the great video! I never knew about the switch underneath the zone valves. Question though: On my system, it doesn't seem like water is going INTO the system. Where is your water coming from? Is the water coming in on the other side of that pressure reducing valve? We have something similar to that but I think the value on the intake side of it isn't opening :-/ Thanks in advance!
Hello MrTravon77; Keeping the water pressure up while purging will push the air from the second floor without any trouble! Gradually lifting the lever up on the pressure reducing valve and watching the gauge at the same time keeping the pressure between 15 and 20 will force the air from second floor.The return valve must be closed while doing this procedure and the zone valve hooked open.I would turn your thermostat off before doing this. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the purge!Al
Hello Tworth23; Each supply line on the boiler has a flow control valve on them which act as zone valves. They are forced open when the circulator turns on. So what you have to do is purge each loop. This is easier with the system you have in place not having any zone valves. Turn the power off to the system. Close the valve to your expansion tank if you have one. Then close the return valve that is located above each pump. Above the valve should be a drain valve. You want to attach a hose to each sediment faucet; one at a time and open the valve draining the other end of the hose into a bucket. You will see bubbles forming in the bucket as it fills. Once the bubbles stop you are all set to go. If by chance when you are purging the pressure drops off; you can lift the lever up on the pressure reducing valve to increase it, but be careful not to hold it up too long as the pressure will go very high. Keep an eye on your gauge. It should not go above 20 pounds while purging. Once you have purged the system. Simply open the return valves and the valve to the expansion tank and you are set to go! Thanks for commenting and have a weekend! Al
Hello JOHN COYLE HERE, Generally it is if the system needs bleeding as it would produce a more efficient heat for you and reduce the noise coming from the radiation. If you hear no gurgling when the water is running around the loop, the system probably doesn't need to be purged or bled. It definitely doe not have to done every year. Keeping an eye on the pressure gauge and assuring that the pressure stays above 12 pounds should help keep the system working well. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello LTRMCrew; When your boiler was installed; did they add anti-freeze to the system by chance? You really don't have to add anything to a heating system as the water once it is heated over and over again becomes what I call dead.They do add anti freeze to prevent possible freezing though.Bigger systems in our area add chemicals to prevent some corrosion;but for residential areas;it is not used that often. Wearing rubber gloves would not hurt for sure. Tks for commenting! Al
.I got a 50 year old Hydronic system.My qestion can I transfer my circulating pump which is was installed in the back of the boiler reinstalled it after the expansion tank for better circulation ?
Hi Al,my system is actually getting more air so obviously somethings not right. I have 7 diff zones each having a shutoff valve on return and supply( spigot is directly under the sending unit and right above pipe coming out of boiler.The water supply comes in towards backside of boiler .When bleeding,I shut both valves on each zone-leave the back valve open(return)and then close supply valve and open spigot.Took 25 gallons out of a short zone and still hear a ton of movement when it heats.Now another zone is catching air?? I also tried reversing the procedure of supply and return shutoff to bleed-.The pop-off sometimes leaks. Any help on what may be the issue? It still throws a lot of heat in the baseboard. Thanks!
Hello Rick; You are bleeding the system the same way as I did in the video; the only difference from what I am reading is you are purging the loop at the supply end. (zone valve).....Your zone valve is closed correct and there is a sediment faucet past the zone valve on each loop? When you are purging the loop and go to shut the hose off do you let the pressured drop off to nothing when emptying the bucket? You have to have water coming out of the hose when you go to turn it off. ( A good flow )....If not; the loop will pick up air. Watch your gauge while purging as you don't want your gauge going above 15 PSI. Is the loop you are purging on the second floor? If it is; you must maintain a constant pressure by lifting the lever on top of the feedwater valve a little at a time to try and maintain 12 to 15 pounds. If you are not lifting the lever then your pressure will drop off and you will never get the air from your high points to come out of the hose. Do not lift it straight up for long as this will give you street pressure and pop your relief pressure. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance! Al
TheOldkid888 Yes,purging at the supply end.I open the zone valve to purge-and the sediment faucet is before the zone valve. Sometimes the pressure does drop off,and everything is on the second floor. I try to use 2 buckets to keep the water flowing. Should I be bleeding w/the zone valve closed?I'm working on a very short run and after 10 gallons the water is still very hot-seems like it should get cold by then. This thing is a pain,Thanks again
Hello Rick; I would say that if it is a short run; about 4 or 5 buckets should do the trick for you although it depends on how many rises you have on the loop. If your pressure drops down to low you will not be able to push the air out; so it is important to keep a pressure of at least twelve to 15 pounds to drive the air around. Don't be alarmed if it goes to 20 pounds just drop the lever back down a little to control the flow of water into the system. By lifting the lever on the feedwater valve this will help to get the job done. If you are using a long garden hose; direct it outside or in a sink drain. Get someone to hold it in the drain while you lift the lever to control the water pressure. Remember that you will need a good pressure to remove the air especially on the second floor. It is more difficult to remove on the second floor, but you can do it. Be patient and you will be all set!. Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
Hi, Do you know what would be the problem if the pressure goes above 20, e.g. 25 and at about 22 to 23 PSI, the psi becoming unstable, and makes some jumping/kicking sounds. Do you know what might be the problem? And in addition to that, when it goes to 22/23 psi, water starts dripping from high pressure relieve valve. NOTE: i just replaced the expansion tank a week ago. Thanks.
Thank you very much, this is very helpful! if I can have one question though,do I need to turn off the boiler to purge the air or I can just turn off the heating via the thermostat?
Hello 小秦, You are more than welcome! You want to turn off the boiler itself. I have seen people purge the system hot. I prefer to turn it off myself. Hopefully everything will go well for you! Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the project! Al
Hello eEva, If you turn your thermostat up it will open the zone valve and no need of manually hooking it. You will only need to close the return valve and purge the loop. Should be all set. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Hi, thanks for your video. I have a three zone hot water system. My basement zone works fine as well as my second floor. The problem is my first floor zone. I get no heat. I tried to purge that zone but when I open my drain valve the water runs for about 5 seconds and then no water comes out. Can you give me an idea why? Thanks, George
Hello George; So you have the return valve on that zone closed. Do you have the zone valve clipped open? It must be clipped open in order to purge the loop and get any pressure. What does the pressure on the tradicator (gauge) read on the boiler? There are 2 indicators on it. One is the temperature and the other is the pressure. If the heat is getting to the second floor then you should be all set as far as being able to purge the system. A pound of pressure will lift water 2.31 feet. Step 1...Close the return valve. Step 2...Hook the zone valve open. Step 3...Attach a hose onto the drain valve of the loop. and place in a bucket. The reason for the bucket is when you are purging you can see air bubbles coming out of the hose and when they stop; you know that the system is air free. This usually takes about 5 minutes depending on the number of pieces of baseboard. (risers in the loop). Step 4...Open the drain valve and drain water off. If your pressure should be low you can lift the lever on the feed water valve and add water during the purging. If you have to lift the lever on the feed water; watch the gauge as the pressure should not exceed 15 pounds. You should be all set if you follow this procedure. Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get a long! Al
TheOldkid888 The problem is I dont have a zone valve like yours, also when i bled the other two zones the water was draining fine with just closing the return valve and opening the drain valve. Yes I watched the pressure and kept it between 10 and 15lbs at all times. Also, it was working well until the temperature outside fell below 25 degrees.
Hello journeykid1; Try this...turn your thermostat up and this will open the zone valve for you if there is no lever to catch. Make sure you close your return valve and you should get water out of the drain valve. Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
TheOldkid888 Tried it but same results. when i open the return again it sounds like a short rush of water goes through then stops. It seems that's the amount of water that comes out when i try to purge.
Hello kwikslvr73; I would drain a little water ( 1/2 gallon ) off of the system and see if the pressure drops any. If so your relief valve could be stuck closed and there is a chance that your extrol tank is waterlogged. First take a little water off the system and let me know what happens. The extrol tank which has a bladder inside started replacing the expansion tank a number of years ago. An expansion tank is about 5 times the price of an extrol tank. We will figure it out! Al
One problem. Believe it or not, I do not have a return valve. There is a feed valve before the pressure regulator (system shut off), a drain valve at the bottom of the main stack, and two purge valves (one for each zone). How would you do this procedure without this valve? Sames steps but just run until no air is seen?
Hi. I have heat coming through 2 rooms on the second floor. The 3rd room and bathroom is not getting heat. The living room I first floor getting some heat. Theres 2 pipes next to it in which Im sure is for the 2 rooms without heat. Only half the pipe have heat..... What can be the course?
Hello Anthony, It sounds like you need to purge that loop. How many zones do you have in the house? What is the pressure on the tradicator (gauge) on the front of the boiler? It should be at least 15 when the boiler is hot. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Part 2; Be sure to watch the gauge when purging! When it heads over 20 place the lever back down. You can lift it a bit and it should give you a constant pressure when purging. After all the air has left the system and you have placed everything back in order; you can add some pressure back to the system by lifting the lever and bringing it up to 12 to 14 pounds. When operating HOT;your pressure should read just a little below 20 pounds. Tks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
+Mohammed Haque Not exactly sure what switch you are talking about, but if it was set at auto before you should probably leave it in that position. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance...Al
Part 2; So once you have purged the system; you want to do the reverse of what you have done and check the pressure in the system. When your system is hot you should have around 20 PSI. The PRV will allow 12 pounds of pressure into the system. After you have purged your system; watch the gauge and the pressure should go to 12 PSI. If not, lift the lever on top of the reducing valve, watch the gauge and place 12 pounds into your system! Hope this helps and thanks for commenting! Al
When my boiler was installed they out some sort of chemical in the lines to prevent corrosion. Anything I need to worry about doing this knowing there's a chemical in the system? I get a whooshing when the zone kicks in. Thx!
Hi Terry, In my upstairs bedroom my radiator constantly leaks (and girgles) water on the left side (the side with the knob?) I am desperate since the water just comes when the heat is on.. I need heat but I feel so afraid the floor will rot and I will fall through the floor. Please please help?????
+kathyfellows7 Not sure if this is directed for me or not, but Is it the radiator or the valve on the side of it? If it is the valve you maybe able to tighten the packing nut on it. If it is the radiator you will either have to get someone to repair it or replace it. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance. Al
***** Nice to have that repair done for sure. Sometimes if you don't know exactly what is going on you are better off paying to have the problem corrected. Gives you that ease of mind. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Helo Tim; Believe it or not the water pressure pushes the air ahead of it and forces it out of the system. Years ago there would be a place where each piece of radiation would have to be bled. Now that you can purge it out with this method there is no need for individual air vents (bleeders). The procedure works very well even with 2 story homes. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello kwikslvr73; Before you go and buy a bearing assembly I would check into a smaller pump made by Grundfos, Bell and Gossett or Armstrong. They are very reasonable in price! I call them throw aways , but they are very dependable and last for many years. That is all I have been using for years. I would check your relief valve and see what it is set for. Should be 30 PSI. Do you have an expansion tank or a small bladder tank on the system? The gauge should read around 20 PSI when hot! Al
Hello Anthony; What is happening with the banging in the pipes is the circulating pump is so efficient in pulling the water around and when the zone valve shuts off the water is still flowing even though the pump has been turned off causing this banging in the loop. What many people including myself would reverse the way the valve went in. This helped sometimes, but not all the time. So I discovered that closing the return valve on each loop reduced the volume of water and this corrected the problem every time. Removing one spring off of the zone valve would also allow the valve to close slower and prevent the banging in the loop. They also make a slow closing valve that eliminates the noise. I would try and dial the return valve off to a point where the noise disappears. It does work and is the easiest fix... Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Hello Greg; If you have no zone valve then the procedure is that much easier. Simply close the return valve and open the drain. I usually close the valve to the expansion tank. Watch your pressure. If the pressure should drop off considerably; you want to lift the lever on your feed water valve and slowly lift it vertically making sure that it does not go above 20 PSI. Once you have purged the system and closed your drain valve as well as open your return and expansion wank valve; you want to check the pressure. It should be around 12 pounds when all is said and done. Your system should be around 20 when in heated. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the project! Al
Hello bbblume; It sounds like you have a steam system to me. They are exceptionally noisy. You mentioned a one pipe system. They are very noisy.They made systems like that many years ago. You have a leak in a radiator is that correct? I don't believe that any valves were installed on this type of system then. There are times when I recommend getting a professional to help and this is one of those times. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the leaky Rad. Al
Thanks so much!!! My guy has walked me through it once, but I’ve never been able to do it again. One part of the house has been without heat for months in this Alaskan winter. The garage heat went out, I tried burping, didn’t work....until I just caught your video!! I’d left a step out! Both are working now!!! Thanks so much!!
Hello Stacey Wright,
You're welcome!
It can be pretty cold to have no heat in that part of the world.
I am glad everything worked out for you! Congrats on getting things back in working order.
Drove to Alaska two years ago. Beautiful country!!! We will be back for another visit at some point and time!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Thanks AL, great reminder , just replaced a air purge popper valve an flushed the system. Have 4 valves , so I made up a water hose an used a mop bucket to get the air out of pipes .
Thanks for posting this. I have 1 zone with that splits out to the North and South of the 2nd floor. The north side baseboards would not get hot, while the south side baseboards were toasty.. There must have been bubbles in there. Watched the video and purged the system. Took about 25 gallons to get all the bubbles out. Now it's hot on both sides. Your video made it much easier to do. Thanks.
I tried it and it worked perfectly for my 2nd floor tenant's boiler. Thanks a lot Bud! Love your videos, please keep doing them!
Hello Kabir,
You're welcome!
Great to hear! Congrats on the repair!
Hopefully everything will be warm this winter!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
I've got it... I understand. A bit tricky at first.. But then once I took my time, and watched your video several more times... I've identified the return valve. What I meant by "lever" valves was, they're not circular, but a "stem" if you would...you know? With red plastic covers on them...Sorry maybe that's not the right name for them, they just look like they'd be called "levers"....Thank you SOOO much for your guidance in the video and your quick response back AL....PEACE.
Thanks, Brother. You also saved me from calling a plumber! Incidentally - the GIRGLING wasn't the issue; two COLD FLOORS! You rock.
Thank you for the reply! I had replaced all my fin tubing in my house when I bought it after someone had stole the copper. I was starting to get nervous that I didn't install bleeders at all the sections. This video and your advice took a little weight off my shoulders. It also gives me some better idea of how to plumb upp everything at the boiler: regulators, shutoffs, outlets etc. Thanks again!
This video saved me from cancelling my vacation. Had no heat on 2nd floor my house. After replacing the thermostat which needed to updated, there was no heat. I thought I had did something wrong when I did the wiring on installing the new thermostat. Took it apart and checked the wiring
+Dennis Rodgers
Hope you had a great vacation!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy 2016! Al
I managed to keep the water coming into a different opening at a reasonable pressure to keep it around 15 psi. That pressure reducing valve is definitely blocked with sediment - I will need to get a plumber to replace it.
Thanks for all of your help!
Condensed version: shut off ALL zone valves and ALL return valves in ALL zones. Starting on lowest level zone (basement or ground), connect hose to that zone's drain pipe. Open drain valve and lift lever on pressure reducing valve to apply full water pressure to force air out. When air bubbles stop, lower lever on pressure reducing valve. Check gauge that pressure is below 30PSI. If ok then close drain valve at hose. WARNING: Do not close valve at hose if pressure is above 30PSI. Normal pressure should be closer to 10PSI.
Repeat for next higher zone.
When all zones have been bleed open all zone valves and all return valves in all zones.
Thanks to @mattfoley6082 for this very clear, concise restatement of the process. For me this answered essential questions I still had after viewing the very helpful video.
Hello toomyw;
Glad it worked out for you and you are more then welcome!
Those zones that split like that can be a pain in the backside for sure. And yes it takes a great deal more time and water then on a single loop.
I recently changed a split loop to a single for a friend of mine and he is as pleased as punch! Much easier to purge now!
Thanks very much for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Thanks ...just purged my system with help from your video Thx
Hello mrsnowy33;
you are more then welcome!
I am glad it went well for you!
Thanks for commenting and have a great New Year! Al
Thank you sir for this Video something this simple cost $100 a hour. Thank you again and have Happy Holidays
Hello Robert;
You are more then welcome!
I hope you got along well with the repair!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week!
Compliments of the season to you! Al
Thank you for this. It really helped Lisa from Coquitlam British Columbia
Hello Lisa from B.C.,
You're welcome!
You get the most efficiency along with a much quieter system if all the air is removed.
Hopefully the project went well for you!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Wow... Thank you so much for posting this. My house is so nice & toasty warm
Hello Thebodells;
You are more then welcome!
I am glad everything worked out for you and congrats on the repair!
Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
Part 2;
Watch your gauge as you don't want the pressure to go above 20 pounds.Relief valve will pop at 30 PSI.So be careful!Once you have hooked open your zone valve,turned off your return valve,placed a hose on the drain valve of the loop and opened the drain valve;lift the lever and watch the gauge.You want your pressure 15 to 20. You can control this by the lifting the lever a bit at a time.Once there are no bubbles,let go of the lever,turn off the drain valve and reverse everything.GL! Al
Hello alyosha1974;
If you do not have a zone valve on your heating system then you would have a flow control valve on coming off the top of the boiler because something has to keep the hot water in the boiler and a flow control would do this.
They are very common!
You are correct in your statement! Do exactly what you saw in the video and this will eliminate the air in the system! No zone valve is just one less step!
Thanks for the kind words and best of luck! Al
Excellent video, very clearly presented. Thank you, sir.
Hello buddyboy4x44,
You are more than welcome!
I hope the repair goes well for you.
One of the problems that people end up with is a little air in the line afterwards. So be sure to purge the loops long enough and you should be all set.
Thanks for the kind words and enjoy your week! Al
Very detailed video... Should my thermostat be set to off before I purge the system? Also will sit push its way back down to the basement from the second floor?
Hello jaybotb;
The water feed is called a pressure reducing valve. When I am purging; I lift the lever on top of the valve and this allows more pressure to enter the system. When doing this you must watch the pressure gauge as you don't want more then 15 to 18 pounds in the system. 30 psi and the relief valve will pop. By the sounds of things your reducing valve is plugged, but you should get more pressure when you lift the lever straight up. Make SURE to watch the gauge. Read part 2.
Thanks for the good information it’s very helpful
Hello Mike E,
You're more than welcome!
Hopefully it helps with any future air issues.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello atvkid0805;
In order for the water to continue to run you may have to lift the brass lever on the pressure reducing valve.
This will allow the water to enter the boiler. When lifting the lever you must watch your gauge as the pressure will build and pop the relief valve if you don't. You don't wan the pressure to go above 20 pounds when purging, once it has reached that pressure;you can gently drop the lever and regulate the pressure using the lever.
Tks for commenting and G.L. Al
Hi TheOldkid888, Thank you for your quick response. Now I do have heat upstairs. Appreciate it and You're the best. :):):)
Thx for the reply. Definitely not anti freeze. I think has to so with anti corrosion. It's a 2900sq ft house with 4 zones. I'll for sure try your vid technique as the whooshing is annoying.
Hi TheOldkidd888, i didn't realize that i was using my son account (MrBurogski) . Anyways, thank you very much. I now have heat upstairs. All the best. :):):)
Hi Al i am a handy man and i did a job for some one. and they ask me if i could get the heat.
Working for them on 2nd floor. and put a new baseboard heater in bathroom. they had no heat on 2nd floor. for 5 years.
and had it bled 4 times. By people that said they fixed it. So i saw your video. and called them the next day .
And said ill give it a try. I did every thing your video showed me and Now they have heat and i have a happy Customer. Thanks Frank
thanks! I did all 4 zones, kept the pressure in check! This "gurgling" started when I had to have the circulation pump replaced, along with 2 pressure relief valves and the acustat? (gray electric control box in front). The plumber (who I just met) also suggested replacing the feed water valve. Since i didnt know how much money I was in for at that point, and he had been here for 2 days, I said i would hold off on that until next time. Do you think its a good idea to replace that as well?
Thanks Al. Small apartment one zone. Got a plumber coming over.
@shaqmoney2001 Hello there; That is correct. Baseboard radiation is usually looped from one room to the next. If you are going to add another 5 foot section, you will have to purge that zone (loop).One of the big mistakes made by many people is that they don't put in enough radiation. I generally try and go with 1 foot of radiation for every 10 square feet of floor space. A room 10 x 10 would then have 10 feet. Hope that helped. Thanks for your comments and enjoy your day!!! Al
Hello mrussokmbs;
Your circulating pump is on the return line correct? Is there a valve below the pump itself?
Sometimes installers will save themselves a few dollars and not install a valve either below or above the pump. There has to be a valve there or else you will just get the water out of the boiler. Is this a new system by chance?
Send me as info as you can about the valves on it...Thanks Al
Hi Theoldkid888, enjoy your videos, can you tell me if I need to drain out my hotwater baseboard system, if I plan to add a new five foot secton? is just in series right? thanks
all set very happy Al have a good week !
Hey JD:
Glad everything worked out for you! I new you would have no problem with this!
Thanks for commenting friend and enjoy your week as well! Al
Hello perogi21;
You are more then welcome! You have to hook the zone valve open when purging the system!
The water does come in through the pressure reducing valve.The PRV can become blocked with sediment.
This is very common,but when you are purging you can lift the brass lever on top of the valve as this will increase the pressure.Be careful when doing this as the relief valve blows off at 30PSI.So lift a little bit a time and you can regulate it this way.
Let me know how you get along! Al
Hello Thomas;
You can do this any time of the year.Whenever I change a boiler I do this procedure.The water is going to be hot for sure. I am hoping that your heating water is not set on 200 degrees on the high limit!
I have never had a problem with cracking on a boiler myself. If you are concerned about that you can leave your system on and the cold water will be heated as soon as it enters the boiler.
Thanks 4 commenting and G.L. Al
I have 3 Taco zone valves. Do I keep 2 of them closed (auto) while I purge each zone? or Do I open all of them?
great video...I have water dripping out of the weep hole on my pump. should I replace the bearing assembly? this will break the system and I will have to bleed the system, correct? Also, after reading your comments, I checked my gauge and it reads 35 pounds! Been here 14 years and never touched anything, could gauge be wrong?
Hi theodkid888,great videos, If I want to purge the system to add another section, do I have to shut the feed that is just before the pressure reducing valve so that the system is total dry before cutting into it so that I can sweat the pipe? and follow the steps above. shut feed,shut return, and open zone valve then open the drain valve to purge right? thanks in advance.
Hello Al. Thank you for your videos. .
I have to relocate one of hydronic baseboard heaters and I am trying to figure out how to drain my system, relocate/ replace the baseboard and then fill and purge the system. Here is some information about my setup:
My house is a colonial and the boiler is in the basement.
I have two zones, one for the first floor and one for the second floor.
The second floor zone has 2 loops.
The zone valves are Taco and are installed at the supply side.
There is a 00e Taco circulator pump on the supply side.
The 3 loops return (2 second floor and 1 first floor) meet and are controlled by 1 shut off valve on the return before the boiler.
Above the shut off valve there is a drain valve.
Before the 3 returns connect together there seem to be something like a valve that can be turned with a flathead screwdriver, not sure what that is. I looked online and people say a balance valve (?).
I would appreciate your help. I can send you picture of the system somehow.
Thank you in advance!
Chrys
Hello Chrys,
You're welcome!
Is the baseboard you are planning to reroute on the first or second floor?
Do you have an expansion tank which is about 3 feet long and usually suspended up in between the joists or do you have an extrol tank that would be about a foot high and wide located near the boiler?
The funny looking valve is called a pressure reducing valve. Never adjust it comes preset.
Get back to me when you get a chance and we will see if we can figure this out together....Al
Hello Al,
Thank you for your quick response. I have the second type of expansion tank that you described. The one I want to relocate now is in the first floor, but I might add a few more feet of baseboard on my master bedroom eventually because it seems to be under heated. What if I touched those valves...?
Hello kouts_limnos,
No big deal as long as you put them back to how they were.
So you must shut the heating system down completely. Meaning both the power and the water shut off to the system. That valve should be located before the pressure reducing valve (the one with the lever on top). You may not have the lever on your reducing valve as it may be the your PRV as you mentioned above.You want to drain the loop you are working; so you will need to drop the pressure to zero.
I believed you mentioned that you only have one valve on the return which is too bad because you are going to drain water from the all three zones and will have to purge them individually once you have relocated your radiation. Regardless place a hose on the drain valve of the return and open until the water stops completely.
Be sure to check the gauge on the boiler. It is your friend when it comes to the system. The pressure must reach zero before you attempt to do any pipe cutting.
Once it has dropped to zero and the water has stopped flowing out of the hose you can begin to cut the copper.
I always use a wet vac when I am making any cuts on baseboard as it takes care of the dirty water that will stain things easily. If you are making these cuts in the basement then you will probably get a way with a bucket.
A little tip. Whenever I am rerouting a pipe I always use sandcloth to clean the pipe before I make any cuts as it is much easier to do beforehand. It is supported at this time and can be shined easily. Once a cut has been made the end of the pipe will bounce all over the place. It will still need a little shine after each cut, but doing it will take care of the majority of the dirt on it.
Not sure when you are planning to do this, but spring is better than winter. Just in case you run into any issues.
You mentioned adding radiation to your bedroom. My rule of thumb is the square foot of the room divided by ten. Ten by ten room...10 feet of baseboard plus an additional few feet for an average window. In that ball park. I have had great success with this simple formula. Many homes have far to less radiation. So many people install it like electrical baseboard which you cannot make a comparison to.
I have seen kitchens which are generally the hardest places to install baseboard with two feet under each window in a corner on a north wall. They said the house was never warm. Very good reason for that.
Anyway...hope this helps!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Get back to if you have any more questions.
@@TheOldkid888 Hi Al,
I am not planning on doing this until it warms up around end of March or so. Here is my plan of action. Let me know if you agree. I will turn the power and the water supply off. I forgot to mention that I have an indirect hot water heater. I will turn the supply to that off as well. Connect a hose to the drain and turn the shut off valve below it off. I will also turn off the valve before and after the circulating pump. Then I will open the drain valve and go upstairs and open the bleeder valve that is further from the boiler. Then I will wait until all the water is out of the system and the pressure is 0. After I finish with the moving around. I will turn the bleeder off, turn the water supply on, turn the valves before and after the circulating pump on. Manually turn both zone valves on and wait until no more air is coming out of the drain hose, making any necessary adjustments on the water pressure. when no more air in the system I will ensure the pressure is around 14psi turn the drain off and check for leaks. I thinking if I should install a shut off valve on each zone loop before they connect to the 1" pipe together. Also, my master bedroom is definitely underheated. It is 20x13 with 3 windows and only has 15 feet of baseboard. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Chrys
Hello Chrys,
It sounds good.
I personally like to put individual valves on all lines. One on the each return line and supply line.
You have a shut off on either side of the pump which will isolate the pump if you ever need to replace it which is great! If you place valves above each zone valve; this will make replacing the zone valves very easy.
It is not necessary, but convenient. I am a big fan of ball valves. The only way to go.
The indirect water heater will be fine. No need to shut the water supply off or drain any water from it.
BE SURE to close the bleeder before opening the feed valve to the system. MOST IMPORTANT as you know!
Sounds like you have it all under control. Remember zero pressure. Allowing air into the system will drain that loop, but it may not drain the one you are working on; so opening a bleeder on each is what I would do.
Best of luck with the project! REMEMBER TO CLOSE before filling. Can't stress it enough.
That size bedroom should have at 26 feet in it. It should go across the 13 and then down the longer wall at least 15. If it gets to warm; you can always close the dampers on the baseboard somewhat. Most people like their bedrooms a little cooler for sleeping so closing the dampers will make a difference.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
drain off some water how? pop up the relief valve? bottom of boiler? thanks for the quick response!
I am not getting heat upstairs on my baseboard. I have 2 zones 1 in the basement and the other one is on the 1st flr. When you are purging do you need to open the water feeder (that looks like a taco bell) or it is automatic that water will flow thru the pipes when you drain the water. My psi when hot is 10, if its cold 5 psi. Do i need to anything to adjust my psi? I would appreciate it very much if you can get back to me please.
So if you have 4 zones (in addition to the hot water storage tank) do you have to purge each zone? I followed your instructions and it worked very well for the first zone. When I attempted to purge the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, there was almost no air to be purged. Now, a week later, i hear the gurgling again in the pipes, so i'm about to purge again.
Hello Tim;
So the first zone you purged is working well. You have to purge each zone individually; you probably no that.
Did you use a 5 gallon bucket when you were purging each zone. I find this the best way to do it because when you see no air bubbles; you know it is purged well. this will probably take about 5 minutes to do each one. I lift the lever on top of the pressure reducing valve (feed water valve) and get the pressure around 15 to 20 pounds.
Read part 2.
Hello Dondra Chambers;
You may not be doing anything wrong. The drain on the return line is where you purge the system. You must close the return valve below the drain valve and hook the lever on the zone valve. You should get water then. The pressure on your boiler should read 12 pounds when cold. The PRV on the boiler sometimes plugs with sediment. You will see a lever on top of the prv; a brass lever, you may have to hold it upright to fill the system.Watch your pressure on the gauge.
Great vid. I have three zones and each zone/pipe has a drain valve. Only one zone/pipe has a shut-off valve, but it is after the drain valve. The only other shut-off is for water going into the boiler. So do I close the shut-off valve that is after the drain valve while purging? Won't this shut-off prevent any water/air from purging from that pipe?
Thx
My boiler system doesn’t seem to have zone valves. Are the steps to purge the same, just without the zone valves? I have a two zone system.
Hello tsgrimey,
You could possibly be able to purge the air out of the system like this depending upon what is on your system. So you would be looking for a return valve on the lower pipe going into the boiler. above that you would find a drain valve. If these are both there it is just a matter of closing the return valve, then opening the drain valve (I attach a hose to it so that I don't have to hold the bucket) and draining water into a bucket.
If you don't have zone valves you probably have two flow control valves on the top of the boiler going to each zone. I am not sure if there are valves on the pipe leaving your boiler or not. If there isn't you would have to screw the top of each flow control down to close them in order to purge each loop.
Before you begin anything go to your baseboard and remove both end covers on one radiator and check for a manual air vent. Each section of baseboard may have to be bled individually in each room. This is where I would begin to look.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance.....Al
Great video. After watching this video I do not know if you can help. I have a split ranch home with 3 zones for 3 floors. The upstairs floor gets plenty of heat, the second (middle floor) gets no heat & the first floor, where the boiler is get a little heat. The circulator pump is working the zone vales are open.
My problem I have three zones and they join into one pipe without any return shutoff valve and I do not have a pressure reducing valve like you have in the video. The supply line goes to a fitting like the one that is in the video at 2:27 with an expansion tank & air bled. When I try to bleed the line I cannot remove all the bubbles plus the water stop flowing, pressure goes to 0. Your help will be appreciated.
Hello Joe,
There has to be some reducing valve to keep the pressure low or your relief valve would be flowing continuously.
It may not look like the one in the video, but there should be one somewhere in the line feeding the boiler. Follow it back and see if you can find one.
Does the pressure rise after you purge the loop and are you isolating a valve on either end of the loops?
By turning off the power on boiler that will close all the zone valves. A return valve must be closed to purge the air properly.
Is there a single valve below or above the circulating pump on the return? This was a common practice on older systems.
Having low pressure generally causes the second floor to lose heat first.
Get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Hey Al thank you for replying so quickly. With the supply side open I do not understand how it went to 0 PSI when I opened the return line to purge. As I mentioned it does not have a pressure reducing valve, ( or I just can not find it)so I do not know what is blocking the inflow or keeping it from building up too much pressure. The water supply is from a well. When I shut the drain valve it takes a long time to regain pressure. There isn’t any shut off below the circulating pump on the return. If you have any time to look at it I took a short 2 min 30 sec video to show how it is set up. I do not know how to send it to you by you tube. Do you have an email that I can send it?
Any suggestions on how I can get the other zone free of air. If possible I rather not have to open the lines due to the weather if possible.
TheOldkid888 do you have the power to the boiler on while doing this? Does the circulator Pump help remove the Air
I tried it with & without the circulator pump on. The pump does help but I did not let it run too long. When it started to make a gurgling noise I shut the pump off. Not sure if the pump would be damaged if no or not enough water flow through it. As far as a pressure reducing valve It looks like I have an automatic one that is attached to the expansion tank. Found this while looking up parts.
Joe San r
Thanks so much for this video! Q; Is it is possible for some of the return valves to have different on/off positions compared to the others? My system is quite old and all of the valves are globe type. There are no visible on/off markings and only 1 has noticeable travel in the pin to indicate whether it is open or closed. It seems that it's open position is opposite to the other return valves. Does clockwise always mean closed, or could someone have installed some of them incorrectly?
@yahmoncool likely air in the line a good purge would help. But possibly an air hammer arrester, or a vertical pipe for the air in the line to collect.
Thank you for your video. It was very helpful and a money saver. :)
Hello M Lassi,
You're welcome!
Hopefully it helps with your issue.
This is a very common problem with hot water systems and hopefully your repair went well!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Thanks a ton for this demo! It helped a ton!
hi, you have your fill valve teed into the return. is this the only way or location to auto fill the boiler? thanks.
Hello mark.r hvac,
It is how I install the feed lines, but I have seen them on the flow as well.
It should be installed in the return as it pushes the air up through the system when purging.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Thank you! You just saved me from calling a plumber :)
+nicole avelli
You are more than welcome!
I am glad everything worked out well for you!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Thanks so much. 2 things:
My return valve is actually before my spigot. Is that a mistake in the system? Also - 4 zones (each with a zone valve), but 1 circulator, 3000 sq foot house - How much water might be in the pipes? I'm wondering how many bucket-fulls of water I might go through.
Thanks
Jello Jerry;
On the return line below the drain valve (spigot) going back to the boiler; there should be a shut off above and below the circulating pump. If there is only one valve there you can shut it off and then purge each zone individually.
As far as how much water is in the system; it is hard to say, but I would say that 3 to 4 buckets would be good for each loop.
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the repair! Al
TheOldkid888
Worked out just fine after attempting this a second time, once all the crazy noises passed. Thanks a bunch. There's a small valve type thing on top of the expansion tank which allows air into the system, has a black and a red nozzle on it, any suggestions on what I need to do with this ? The nozzles are adjustable, just not sure on their function.
Before purging a zone, does the power to the furnace have to be turned off?
Hello sonic,
Either way it will work for you.
At this time of the year I would suggest trying it with the power on.
A few five gallon bucket of water should do the trick for you.
Use a hose and place it in the bottom of the bucket and you will be able to see the air bubbles coming out of the system.
Hope this helps!
Drop me a line and let me know how you get along.
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the repair! Al
So my i hear water running through my baseboards. Not gurgling so much. But like someone turned on your outside hose and you hear it running from inside the house. Is that normal operation or should it be quiet? 1st time with baseboard heaters.
Thanks, this is good to know. Difference is I dont have zone valves, but 2 circulators.
Hello Rons Beers & Ales,
You probably have flow control valves on each loop. You can still purge it the same you would as if you had zone valves. You just wouldn't have to worry about hooking any levers. Simply shut off the return valve and attach a hose to the sediment valve above it.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
thanks for the comment, but my Burnham oil fired water boiler seems to have a leak in the domestic/potable coil - yipes.
Hello Rons Beers & Ales,
You have changed the expansion tank and the feed water valve. Generally it is the expansion tank.
If the boiler is turn off for a while and the pressure is still building; you're coil is proabably the issue.
Unfortunately you will need to get that replaced.
I believe it could be cast iron? If so; you should be all set if it is.
You managed to find the problem. Now to make the repair.
Thanks for commenting and good luck!
Let me know how you get along! Al
THE OLDKID888, YES i WILL LET u KNOW WHAT i DID. mY NEPHEW IS SPEAR HEADING THE WORK, I shut of all pertinent valves, drained the boiler at 11:00 Am. by 4:00 PM it was full of water and PSI was 30. We then drained some water isolated the tankless coil, and the PSI has held at 20 / 25PSI and the relef valve stopped dripping water. so its narrowed down to the tankless coil.
Hello Ron,
Definitely is the problem.
Best of luck with it! Al
Thanks!! This video helped a ton!!
Hello Scott;
You are more then welcome!
I hope you got along well with the tune up!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Can you do this when the heater has been running or hot? Should I turn off the heat before attempting. Also..I have three zone heat. I have 3 boxes on wall and 3 valves (one for each zone) should I do this procedure to each zone at a time? Just noticed in your video you have 2 zone with 1 valve. Thanks in advance.
Hello Jeff;
You can turn the furnace off during this procedure, but you don't really have to.
You have to do each zone separately. Some installations that I come across only have one valve on the return. You turn that one valve off and purge each zone separately. I personally, install an individual valve on every return line.
You can then isolate each zone separately.
Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Hi Al...my husband and I have been purging our system on the 2nd floor to no avail. I have several questions. #1 if the water is coming out slowly, how many times do you raise the pressure and how often as you purge? #2 - we have 2-zone heat...I think the zone valve for the 2nd floor is shot because we purged yesterday and closed that valve back up again and the heat stopped coming through the return pipes. Can we merge the 2 zones into 1? THANK YOU SO MUCH! Charleen
Hello Charleen Schwartzman;
If you hold the lever on the pressure reducing valve slightly upwards a little more and not all the way; this will increase the pressure slowly. Watch the tradicator (gauge) to make sure it doesn't go above 20 while purging. This will push all the air out of the system for you. Once you have removed all the air from the system; close your drain valve and release your lever on the pressure reducing valve. You want to look at the gauge again after you have purged and make sure it is at a minimum of 12 pounds. This should be where it should at to get the water circulating upstairs.
I would say that the pressure reducing valve is partially plugged and will not allow enough water pressure in the system to get to the second floor. For every foot of rise; you need almost half a pound of pressure (.434 ) One pound of pressure will lift water 2.31 feet. So if you have 14 feet to go up in height; you need at least 6 pounds of pressure.
Over time pressure reducing valves plug off, but by lifting the lever and watching your gauge you can feed the system to where it is working fine. When the boiler is hot; the pressure should be around 18 to 20 pounds.
How to check to see if your zone valve is working or not.....Turn down your thermostats to the point where they are definitely off. Then turn the thermostat that you think is not working for you up all the way. Go to the zone valve and try and slide the lever on the valve back and forth. If it slides easily; then your valve should be fine. Someone can stand there and turn the thermostat down again and the lever should slide back to where it originated at.
DO NOT PUT 20 POUNDS PRESSURE IN THE SYSTEM AFTER PURGING!
Check the tradicator (gauge) and be sure to have no more then 12 to 14 pounds of pressure in your system. When the boiler is working it will expand the water and the pressure will increase.
Hope this helps.....
Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
Wondering if you could advise me on how to proceed with my heating issue. I have an oil furnace with baseboard in the basement which does not appear to be heating in the basement area. The upstairs thermostat is working and heating. The basement has it's own thermostat, it does not appear to be working properly to active the heat; which at this time of year could be a problem. Could this basement heating issue be a zone problem or a thermostat issue, the breaker box looks ok so puzzled at what to do next?
Could you please be so kind as to advise on next step to check problem? Thank you for your time and advice in advance.
Thanks,
Shep
Hello Shep;
I would get someone to turn the thermostat up and look at the zone valve when they do turn it up. Watch to see if the lever moves over on the zone valve. If it does not try sliding the metal lever over by hand. It should move easy.
Sometimes the lever on the zone valve will move, but the lever will not move, but this doesn't mean the zone valve didn't open. Sliding the lever over easily means that it did.
If the zone valve opened; then you have an air lock in the system because the circulating pump is pumping heat into the other part of the house. You then have to purge it to remove the air and you should be all set.
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the repair! Al
Let me know how you get along.
Thanks for sharing., Is there no hi vent on this system. I replaced my stuck hi vent($16) and that solved the gurgle. I want to know about using the public water system to prevent freezing in a power/service outage. I believe by putting water into the boiler drain valve it will come out the air drain valve, preventing a freeze up. What's your opinion?
Hello Dave;
You are more then welcome!
By having a flow of steady water anywhere in the house as in a faucet turned on to a low trickle will prevent the line from freezing. Many people have done this over the years.
I have never heard of anyone doing this when it comes to a heating system, but if you were supplying the system with water and using it in the same manner as purging then your zones would not freeze as long as you had a steady flow. It would not have to be too high for it to work.
I like that train of thought. No reason why it shouldn't.
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
thanks, the pipes are in the walls so i am afraid they could freeze before the boiler cooled enough to run the water, maybe better to just drain it out? Lots of BS when its cold with baseboard, adding glycol reduces efficiency? Any efficient no freeze additives? Cheers!
Hello Dave 06516;
If you were to purge water through the pipes and boiler steady you would have no issues with freezing.
It would have to be monitored, but it would work.
It would be very hard to drain all the water out of the system as the lines go up and back down on every rad.
You do lose a little as far as antifreeze goes; all depending on what product you use. Some are more efficient then others.
There is a number of different types.
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Do you have to open all valves in the system or juste 1?
Hello Luc,
You open just one zone valve at a time. If you have three zones and one is a problem then you would open one zone valve manually, close the return valve and open the drain valve above the valve on the return line.
How many zones do you have on your system?
Get back to me when you get a chance....Al
@@TheOldkid888 hey thanks for the reply! I have 4 zones and it was piped weirdly! I have 1 drain valve fpr the whole system! I'm having issues with a squeeky noise from the circulation pump. Bearing and motor was replaced in February for same noise issue. Found out by reading a lot it was caused by trapped air in the impeller periodically. So bleeding the system is the last option to try!
Hello Luc,
If you only have one return and one valve it is just a matter of closing the one valve that shuts the return down and then open each zone valve manually while draining the water into a large bucket. I like using a hose so that you will see air bubbles leaving the system. Big thing is to keep the pressure up on the system while purging. Lifting the lever on the pressure reducing valve will keep the pressure up. Lift it, but don't hold it open the entire time. Watch the gauge so you can lower the lever periodically to control the pressure. Throttling the lever up is the best way to go. You will hear the water flowing in.
What is the name of the circulating pump? Is it a compact pump or is the motor and pump housing separated by a coupler which has a place to install oil?
Do you only get the sound when the pump is running and not the burner? Is it an oil or gas burner?
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance...Al
@@TheOldkid888 thanks again!!! Will try this!!
Hi, I have a Peerless WB3 with no zone valves. Where is the return valve located? Thank you.
Hello Believeit,
The valve should be located in line on the lower section of the boiler. Sometimes there is only one valve that isolates every zone on that end. It should be just above the pump. I always install a valve above and below the pump in case it has to be changed.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Thanks Al.
Soooo, I did it this way. THANK YOU! Had to use street pressure for 5minutes to get all the air out of one zone since it splits off(just bought the house).But how do I get the remaining air out of the boiler...without cracking it from cold water. Takes to long to cool off since need it now since it's cold out.My street water comes into the auto pressure thing that you can lift for street pressure. But where that comes into is on the back end of the boiler (output side?) and T,s into output on top of boiler. With this setup do I have to ever worry about cracking the boiler ? Mine gets to 20-30psi with valve down and almost 200F(190?)Had MANY plumbers out that couldn't fix the master bedroom since they would only fill one bucket, I used a hose outside for 5 minutes.
Bleed other zone too
Turned return on
Still a LITTLE air in there from being in the boiler I assume. Thanks
Hello Michael,
You are more than welcome!
Although it sounds like air is in the boiler it is probably in a loop.
Any air in the boiler would rise to the top of the boiler and go into the header and into the loop from there. How many zones do you have?
Do you have an automatic air vent on an air scoop coming off the supply line?
You will have to purge the system a little more to remove the remaining air. You are definitely in the right direction since you have removed most of the air so far.
What type of boiler do you have? Is it cast iron or steel?
The auto pressure thing is called a pressure reducing valve. Just to be clear..Is the feed line that supplies water to the boiler going into the supply on the top of it or into the bottom on the return?
You are almost there. Shouldn't be much to remove the remaining air once we figure out a few details.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance. Al
Well, I kind of have to do it without air purge valves since I want a plumber to do it just in case that build up causes it to have to be welded. The good ones I know aren't available for easy task yet lol.
Boiler is a slant and fin cast iron oldie I believe. I think the little that was left in there may have went theougj the faulty purge valves or not made a huge difference after I heard it once. A night of sleep last night since that zone unairlocked itself lol! Didn't sound like my house was flooding or rainin from inside.
Thank you.
Yeah, I was assuming I'd have to just keep purging it like that until boiler had no more air since faulty high vents. I need a high vent installed in bedroom that was highest point, but street pressure for 5 minutes was able to fix that!
Was mainly scared to crack it with cold water. The water comes in 2 ft above where it first leaves the boiler (end of supply, start of return--it goes in there then splits up to baseboards then finally to bottom of boiler at return). After having it on for 5 minutes I could feel the heat transfer off the T pipe which was getting closer to the boiler (cold water getting close to boiler) and stopped bleeding because temp dropped 50F. Thankful it was just enough time.
Hope makes sense and all set now, but still scared I risked cracking it or blowing up lol. Could send pic.
Oh yeah it was two zones, purged them both. Figured that if I didn't have my heat on and baseboards were cool then I turned on furnace (cold or hot) that inside warms up anyways then opens the zone and mixes the ice cold water into the boiler water first somehow so it doesn't crack....if I was wrong I got lucky.
Feed goes into start of supply for baseboards , start of return to boiler
Hello Michael,
I am glad it all went well for you!
Congrats on the repair!
It could possibly crack the boiler if it was cold water going into it, but it sounds like you have it under control.
Nothing exploded, you slept and no more gurgling sound!
Thumbs up!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Hi Theoldkid888,
I am getting air in my hot water line ONLY. My shower sputters when turned to hot, and I have water hammer on my clothes washer but only when set to "warm" or "hot."
Do you know why this would be and how I could fix?
Thanks!
Going to go attempt this now, wish me luck.
Hello Al, how do I bleed the air out of my boiler? The way it was setup is that there’s no shut off return valve between zone valve and spigot[sediment valve]. The cold water main feed goes to water pressure regulator tied in below the zone valve then to circulator pump(return line) then goes back to the boiler ,the spigot valve is above the zone valve. Please help and Thanks in advance
Hello sakitlikod1,
Just to be clear....Is there any valve on the return line going back into the boiler?
Do you have cast iron rads or is it baseboard?
We will try and figure this out. Just need as much info as I can get.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance.....Al
Hello. I am curious how this method forces air that may be "floating" at the highest point of a circuit. It seems like it would just hover there rather then being forced all the way down to the basement.
I have three zones and below them, after they join into one pipe, is a singular yellow lever, is that the shutoff valve?
Hello shakefly,
From what you have explained that would be the valve you turn off. From there you would purge each zone separately.
Thanks for commenting and best luck with the project! Al
Thank you!. My system looks fairly simple compared to some friends. I have the 3 purge spigots, right below behind them are the thermostats that I can change from automatic to open, then the 3 pipes converge and there is a yellow valve handle, and then below that is a teal colored, what I am assuming is a pump of some sort.
Thank you for your help!
Hello shakefly,
You are more than welcome!
You should be all set. Remember to purge them one at a time and everything should work out well for you.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
Al, When you use the pressure reducing valve, to increase the pressure - in case it goes to low or you just want to force more air out and increase the pressure. Lets say the pressure goes to 20 psi. but you want only 15 psi, after adding pressure to the system, how do you get the pressure to go down to 15 psi again ?Thank youSteven
Hello Steve,
I put the pressure up to a constant 20 psi to purge all the air out of the system.
If you don't keep the pressure up when purging you will not remove all the air.
After purging the system and the sir is removed; you open the sediment faucet that you used to purge and you can drop the pressure back to where you want it. If it drops too low simply lift the lever on the reducing valve and you can adjust it between 12 and 15 pounds. The valve should automatically adjust the pressure to 12 pounds if it is not plugged with sediment.
Thansk for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
thank you for your wonderful video, and I purged my 4 zone system, but one of my 1st floor family room, the bubble would not stop. I ran the the water out for 10 minutes , but it wouldn't go away. can you tell me why I am not getting the bubble free drain? thank you
Hello Moon Hee Kim,
You're welcome!
There could be more a little more radiation on that loop, so when you purge the system you made have to increase the pressure and keep it a little more constant. Bring it up to about 20 pounds by lifting the lever on the pressure reducing valve while keeping an eye on the gauge so that it doesn't get near 30 psi.
Purge the system with added pressure will push all the air out of the loop.
Do you have an automatic air vent on the system?
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Thank you for the great video! I never knew about the switch underneath the zone valves.
Question though: On my system, it doesn't seem like water is going INTO the system. Where is your water coming from? Is the water coming in on the other side of that pressure reducing valve? We have something similar to that but I think the value on the intake side of it isn't opening :-/ Thanks in advance!
Hello MrTravon77;
Keeping the water pressure up while purging will push the air from the second floor without any trouble!
Gradually lifting the lever up on the pressure reducing valve and watching the gauge at the same time keeping the pressure between 15 and 20 will force the air from second floor.The return valve must be closed while doing this procedure and the zone valve hooked open.I would turn your thermostat off before doing this.
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the purge!Al
Hey. I do not have any zone valves on my system like yours so I'm not sure what I need to do. I have 3 zones with 3 green circulators
Hello Tworth23;
Each supply line on the boiler has a flow control valve on them which act as zone valves. They are forced open when the circulator turns on. So what you have to do is purge each loop.
This is easier with the system you have in place not having any zone valves.
Turn the power off to the system.
Close the valve to your expansion tank if you have one. Then close the return valve that is located above each pump. Above the valve should be a drain valve. You want to attach a hose to each sediment faucet; one at a time and open the valve draining the other end of the hose into a bucket.
You will see bubbles forming in the bucket as it fills. Once the bubbles stop you are all set to go.
If by chance when you are purging the pressure drops off; you can lift the lever up on the pressure reducing valve to increase it, but be careful not to hold it up too long as the pressure will go very high. Keep an eye on your gauge. It should not go above 20 pounds while purging.
Once you have purged the system. Simply open the return valves and the valve to the expansion tank and you are set to go!
Thanks for commenting and have a weekend! Al
Is it best to bleed the system for air just before the winter.
Hello JOHN COYLE HERE,
Generally it is if the system needs bleeding as it would produce a more efficient heat for you and reduce the noise coming from the radiation. If you hear no gurgling when the water is running around the loop, the system probably doesn't need to be purged or bled.
It definitely doe not have to done every year. Keeping an eye on the pressure gauge and assuring that the pressure stays above 12 pounds should help keep the system working well.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello LTRMCrew;
When your boiler was installed; did they add anti-freeze to the system by chance?
You really don't have to add anything to a heating system as the water once it is heated over and over again becomes what I call dead.They do add anti freeze to prevent possible freezing though.Bigger systems in our area add chemicals to prevent some corrosion;but for residential areas;it is not used that often.
Wearing rubber gloves would not hurt for sure.
Tks for commenting! Al
.I got a 50 year old Hydronic system.My qestion can I transfer my circulating pump which is was installed in the back of the boiler reinstalled it after the expansion tank for better circulation ?
Thanks for this video, I am going to go do this now.
Hello Rob;
You are more then welcome!
I hope everything works out good for you!
Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
Thanks a lot. Worked as advertised :).
Hi Al,my system is actually getting more air so obviously somethings not right. I have 7 diff zones each having a shutoff valve on return and supply( spigot is directly under the sending unit and right above pipe coming out of boiler.The water supply comes in towards backside of boiler .When bleeding,I shut both valves on each zone-leave the back valve open(return)and then close supply valve and open spigot.Took 25 gallons out of a short zone and still hear a ton of movement when it heats.Now another zone is catching air?? I also tried reversing the procedure of supply and return shutoff to bleed-.The pop-off sometimes leaks. Any help on what may be the issue? It still throws a lot of heat in the baseboard. Thanks!
Hello Rick;
You are bleeding the system the same way as I did in the video; the only difference from what I am reading is you are purging the loop at the supply end. (zone valve).....Your zone valve is closed correct and there is a sediment faucet past the zone valve on each loop?
When you are purging the loop and go to shut the hose off do you let the pressured drop off to nothing when emptying the bucket? You have to have water coming out of the hose when you go to turn it off. ( A good flow )....If not; the loop will pick up air.
Watch your gauge while purging as you don't want your gauge going above 15 PSI.
Is the loop you are purging on the second floor? If it is; you must maintain a constant pressure by lifting the lever on top of the feedwater valve a little at a time to try and maintain 12 to 15 pounds. If you are not lifting the lever then your pressure will drop off and you will never get the air from your high points to come out of the hose. Do not lift it straight up for long as this will give you street pressure and pop your relief pressure.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance! Al
TheOldkid888 Yes,purging at the supply end.I open the zone valve to purge-and the sediment faucet is before the zone valve. Sometimes the pressure does drop off,and everything is on the second floor. I try to use 2 buckets to keep the water flowing. Should I be bleeding w/the zone valve closed?I'm working on a very short run and after 10 gallons the water is still very hot-seems like it should get cold by then. This thing is a pain,Thanks again
Hello Rick;
I would say that if it is a short run; about 4 or 5 buckets should do the trick for you although it depends on how many rises you have on the loop. If your pressure drops down to low you will not be able to push the air out; so it is important to keep a pressure of at least twelve to 15 pounds to drive the air around. Don't be alarmed if it goes to 20 pounds just drop the lever back down a little to control the flow of water into the system. By lifting the lever on the feedwater valve this will help to get the job done. If you are using a long garden hose; direct it outside or in a sink drain. Get someone to hold it in the drain while you lift the lever to control the water pressure. Remember that you will need a good pressure to remove the air especially on the second floor. It is more difficult to remove on the second floor, but you can do it. Be patient and you will be all set!.
Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
Hi, Do you know what would be the problem if the pressure goes above 20, e.g. 25 and at about 22 to 23 PSI, the psi becoming unstable, and makes some jumping/kicking sounds. Do you know what might be the problem?
And in addition to that, when it goes to 22/23 psi, water starts dripping from high pressure relieve valve.
NOTE: i just replaced the expansion tank a week ago.
Thanks.
Thank you very much, this is very helpful! if I can have one question though,do I need to turn off the boiler to purge the air or I can just turn off the heating via the thermostat?
Hello 小秦,
You are more than welcome!
You want to turn off the boiler itself. I have seen people purge the system hot. I prefer to turn it off myself.
Hopefully everything will go well for you!
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the project! Al
Hello eEva,
If you turn your thermostat up it will open the zone valve and no need of manually hooking it. You will only need to close the return valve and purge the loop. Should be all set.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Good luck! Al
Hi, thanks for your video. I have a three zone hot water system. My basement zone works fine as well as my second floor. The problem is my first floor zone. I get no heat. I tried to purge that zone but when I open my drain valve the water runs for about 5 seconds and then no water comes out. Can you give me an idea why?
Thanks, George
Hello George;
So you have the return valve on that zone closed. Do you have the zone valve clipped open? It must be clipped open in order to purge the loop and get any pressure.
What does the pressure on the tradicator (gauge) read on the boiler? There are 2 indicators on it. One is the temperature and the other is the pressure. If the heat is getting to the second floor then you should be all set as far as being able to purge the system. A pound of pressure will lift water 2.31 feet.
Step 1...Close the return valve.
Step 2...Hook the zone valve open.
Step 3...Attach a hose onto the drain valve of the loop. and place in a bucket. The reason for the bucket is when you are purging you can see air bubbles coming out of the hose and when they stop; you know that the system is air free. This usually takes about 5 minutes depending on the number of pieces of baseboard. (risers in the loop).
Step 4...Open the drain valve and drain water off.
If your pressure should be low you can lift the lever on the feed water valve and add water during the purging. If you have to lift the lever on the feed water; watch the gauge as the pressure should not exceed 15 pounds.
You should be all set if you follow this procedure.
Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get a long! Al
TheOldkid888
The problem is I dont have a zone valve like yours, also when i bled the other two zones the water was draining fine with just closing the return valve and opening the drain valve. Yes I watched the pressure and kept it between 10 and 15lbs at all times. Also, it was working well until the temperature outside fell below 25 degrees.
Hello journeykid1;
Try this...turn your thermostat up and this will open the zone valve for you if there is no lever to catch. Make sure you close your return valve and you should get water out of the drain valve.
Thanks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
TheOldkid888
Tried it but same results. when i open the return again it sounds like a short rush of water goes through then stops. It seems that's the amount of water that comes out when i try to purge.
Hello journeykid1;
Does the pressure gauge on the boiler change when you try purging the zone?
Thanks... Al
Hello kwikslvr73;
I would drain a little water ( 1/2 gallon ) off of the system and see if the pressure drops any. If so your relief valve could be stuck closed and there is a chance that your extrol tank is waterlogged. First take a little water off the system and let me know what happens. The extrol tank which has a bladder inside started replacing the expansion tank a number of years ago. An expansion tank is about 5 times the price of an extrol tank.
We will figure it out! Al
One problem. Believe it or not, I do not have a return valve. There is a feed valve before the pressure regulator (system shut off), a drain valve at the bottom of the main stack, and two purge valves (one for each zone). How would you do this procedure without this valve? Sames steps but just run until no air is seen?
Hi. I have heat coming through 2 rooms on the second floor. The 3rd room and bathroom is not getting heat. The living room I first floor getting some heat. Theres 2 pipes next to it in which Im sure is for the 2 rooms without heat. Only half the pipe have heat..... What can be the course?
Hello Anthony,
It sounds like you need to purge that loop. How many zones do you have in the house?
What is the pressure on the tradicator (gauge) on the front of the boiler? It should be at least 15 when the boiler is hot.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Part 2; Be sure to watch the gauge when purging! When it heads over 20 place the lever back down. You can lift it a bit and it should give you a constant pressure when purging. After all the air has left the system and you have placed everything back in order; you can add some pressure back to the system by lifting the lever and bringing it up to 12 to 14 pounds. When operating HOT;your pressure should read just a little below 20 pounds.
Tks for commenting and let me know how you get along! Al
I have lever valves, so how can I determine where my return valve is? Thanks.
Hi is it ok to leave the switch on from Auto to manual please kindly let me know thanks
+Mohammed Haque
Not exactly sure what switch you are talking about, but if it was set at auto before you should probably leave it in that position.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance...Al
Thanks for the video helped a lot ☆☆
Hello ricky;
You are more then welcome!
I am glad everything worked out for you!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Part 2;
So once you have purged the system; you want to do the reverse of what you have done and check the pressure in the system. When your system is hot you should have around 20 PSI. The PRV will allow 12 pounds of pressure into the system. After you have purged your system; watch the gauge and the pressure should go to 12 PSI. If not, lift the lever on top of the reducing valve, watch the gauge and place 12 pounds into your system!
Hope this helps and thanks for commenting! Al
When my boiler was installed they out some sort of chemical in the lines to prevent corrosion. Anything I need to worry about doing this knowing there's a chemical in the system? I get a whooshing when the zone kicks in. Thx!
Hi Terry, In my upstairs bedroom my radiator constantly leaks (and girgles) water on the left side (the side with the knob?) I am desperate since the water just comes when the heat is on.. I need heat but I feel so afraid the floor will rot and I will fall through the floor. Please please help?????
+kathyfellows7
Not sure if this is directed for me or not, but Is it the radiator or the valve on the side of it?
If it is the valve you maybe able to tighten the packing nut on it. If it is the radiator you will either have to get someone to repair it or replace it.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance. Al
*****
Nice to have that repair done for sure.
Sometimes if you don't know exactly what is going on you are better off paying to have the problem corrected. Gives you that ease of mind.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Helo Tim;
Believe it or not the water pressure pushes the air ahead of it and forces it out of the system.
Years ago there would be a place where each piece of radiation would have to be bled.
Now that you can purge it out with this method there is no need for individual air vents (bleeders).
The procedure works very well even with 2 story homes.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello kwikslvr73;
Before you go and buy a bearing assembly I would check into a smaller pump made by Grundfos, Bell and Gossett or Armstrong. They are very reasonable in price! I call them throw aways , but they are very dependable and last for many years. That is all I have been using for years.
I would check your relief valve and see what it is set for. Should be 30 PSI. Do you have an expansion tank or a small bladder tank on the system? The gauge should read around 20 PSI when hot! Al
can this method be used to also stop the banging in the pipes?
Hello Anthony;
What is happening with the banging in the pipes is the circulating pump is so efficient in pulling the water around and when the zone valve shuts off the water is still flowing even though the pump has been turned off causing this banging in the loop.
What many people including myself would reverse the way the valve went in. This helped sometimes, but not all the time. So I discovered that closing the return valve on each loop reduced the volume of water and this corrected the problem every time. Removing one spring off of the zone valve would also allow the valve to close slower and prevent the banging in the loop. They also make a slow closing valve that eliminates the noise.
I would try and dial the return valve off to a point where the noise disappears. It does work and is the easiest fix...
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
What if I do not have a zone valve? I have a return shutoff valve and drain valve but the output just goes right to baseboards.
Hello Greg;
If you have no zone valve then the procedure is that much easier. Simply close the return valve and open the drain. I usually close the valve to the expansion tank. Watch your pressure. If the pressure should drop off considerably; you want to lift the lever on your feed water valve and slowly lift it vertically making sure that it does not go above 20 PSI.
Once you have purged the system and closed your drain valve as well as open your return and expansion wank valve; you want to check the pressure. It should be around 12 pounds when all is said and done. Your system should be around 20 when in heated.
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the project! Al
Hello bbblume;
It sounds like you have a steam system to me. They are exceptionally noisy.
You mentioned a one pipe system. They are very noisy.They made systems like that many years ago.
You have a leak in a radiator is that correct? I don't believe that any valves were installed on this type of system then.
There are times when I recommend getting a professional to help and this is one of those times.
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the leaky Rad. Al