Yes, protect your work! People are dicks! I think you explained in a previous video, better than I ever could, that 5-act structure (or in some cases 6-act structure) is just easier. Being more specific results in less labor. Genre has been making me sad lately. Genre just makes people want you to do things that you don't want to do. I suspect, however, that a lot of the truly great books create a genre instead of worrying about fitting into one. The easiest rules to follow are the rules you've written for yourself. Happy for the sprints you've had on planes. That is a gift. Not happy for your wallet though. To get to Europe, I find it would be cheaper to drive to Newfoundland, bring at least 4 liters (ideally 10) of tequila to a pier overlooking the Atlantic, and I get so wasted that my body literally floats. As far as I know there's no international law prohibiting a floating human. As long as my passport and credit card are in my pocket, all I have to do is land in Ireland (where they'll forgive me for not being sober) and convert enough of my savings to euros for bus fare, bags, toiletries and a week's worth of clothes. The only problem with that method is how difficult it would be to write while traveling. Execution is where the disparate pieces of your headspace have to fit together and work. Ideas can be brought above the level of garbage at any time, but execution is bigger and takes commitment. My respect for you, Shaelin, has a lot to do with how much you commit.
Yeah i hate genre too. All so that the book gets put on a shelf with stories like it. But this doesnt just burden us with a need to know all the tropes- have to deliver things like happy endings for certain genres OR ELSE! And i hate that, especially when desiring to mix up genres. I think ill just slap something generic and distanced on it "tradgedy-romance" sort of thing, etc.
It sounds like you're writing romantic speculative fiction along the lines of This is How You Lose the Time War and The Gracekeepers which are high stakes speculative fiction that don't have a ton of characters or plot. They're mainly focused on the two main characters, so they're farily short books. Maybe it might help to think of it as a novella or short novel? I could be wrong but I doubt you're writing romantasy. To me that's not a genre but more of a trend and its readers are looking specifically for what you described: toxic hetero nonsense in a fantasy backdrop.
Actually I think you hit the nail on the head by saying that romantasy isn't so much a genre as a trend, and my book definitely doesn't fall into that trend. But yes it's for sure a shorter novel, so This Is How You Lose the Time War/The Gracekeepers (which I haven't read yet) might actually be really good comp titles!
Hey Shaelin! Long time viewer, rare commenter. I've been reading the romantasy books--most recently Fourth Wing and A Fate Inked in Blood, and I've read most of your published work--I believe you when you say they aren't aimed at the same audience, based on what little I know about how you write. I'm finding that books labelled romantasy have clear YA roots, with similar immersion and emphasis on emotions. The prose tends to be simple--what Brandon Sanderson would call window pane. They have fast-paced, (thriller?) pacing, and the romance tends toward the erotic and often features two or more sex scenes. The worldbuilding is light, more set dressing than anything resembling lore. Iron Widow had a strong romantic element, but it didn't fit neatly into the romantasy category--it also featured a queer romance. I'd definitely check that one out if you haven't yet. I recommend the audiobook, it was fantastic. My critique of that book is that it leans into melodrama at times, but it works for the story the author was telling. (not much of a criticism). I'm imagining strong romantic fantasy akin to Xiran Jay Zhao's Iron Widow, with literary prose stylecomparable to N.K. Jemisin's Broken Earth or R.F. Kuang's The Poppy War. (There are probably more current comps, but it's not a genre I dip into often.) Obviously, I don't actually know anything about your book (good call to keep it close to the chest, btw), and I could be way off base. This is my best guess. When I feeling like the book is bad or I'm getting bored, I read it from the beginning too. Like you, I also find it's better than I've convinced myself, and that spurs me to keep going. Do you feel like you might be putting too much pressure on your performance because you're writing a more commercial project? When I write literary, I feel freer to follow my whims, whereas commercial fiction can feel burdened by reader expectations, especially when popular tropes are dragged by critics. I struggle with that a lot, and am curious as to whether or not other writers do too. Love the channel. Can't wait to hear about your grad school experience.
Ohh this is really interesting and helpful! And honestly I think you're totally right about feeling more pressure writing a commercial project vs a litfic one, I feel like there's been a lot of overthinking throughout the process because I'm coming into a new genre space where there are Strong Genre Expectations and avid fantasy readers who know the genre wayyy better than I do, whereas I'm comfortable with literary fiction and reader expectations in terms of plot/character are less of a factor.
Thanks for sharing your experience with writing while traveling. I have a six-week trip this autumn so I will probably write at least on the flights to and back (12 hours each)! ✈️ ✍🏻👩🏻💻
I know this is so random but I’ve been craving this specific kind of book lately, do you have any comp titles for the definition of impossible? I think that’s the vibe I want based off the all about my novel I watched like 8 years ago lmao hope this isn’t annoying to ask
At least in the circles I'm in, no one can agree on what romantasy actually means. It could mean fantasy romance (in which the romance is the main plot and the fantasy is set dressing; it's genre romance in a fantasy world and is held to the expectations of genre romance) or it could mean romantic fantasy (in which the fantasy is driving the main plot and there's a significant romantic subplot). There is queer romantasy out there, but, as with many things queer, it gets buried so you do have to go digging for it. Cozy fantasy doesn't necessarily imply domesticity, it's just the opposite of epic fantasy. One of the landmark titles of cozy fantasy, Can't Spell Treason Without Tea by Rebecca Thorne, does have moments of life or death stakes, but as a whole, the story is more personal and less political. I think epic fantasy is what you're thinking of when you talk about "fantasy that isn't cozy fantasy or romantasy" that deals with kingdoms at war and saving the world, that GRRM and Brandon Sanderson are writing. There is much, much more fantasy beyond that and I doubt you'll have an issue finding an audience just because you don't fit in with either GRRM or SJM. From what I've heard from publishing professionals I follow, traditional publishing is starting to tire of romantasy and is probably going to slow down publishing it in the next few years, so don't feel like you have to cling to that label if it doesn't fit. You could call it romantic fantasy, which I don't think is necessarily held to the same vibe as romantasy or fantasy romance, and it sounds like it would fit. It's also perfectly acceptable to just call it fantasy. You don't have to perfectly nail down a subgenre if none of them feel quite right, they're all going to end up in the same section of the bookstore. I've been reading much more sci fi than fantasy recently so I'm blanking on more titles to recommend, but based on what little I know about both this book and your book, you might be interested in The Bone Orchard by Sara A Mueller. Idk if it's queer (the first couple chapters I read have a sort of queer vibe but idk if it's the same kind of queer vibe you're going for) but it does have a bit of a kind of political plot but not all out Game of Thrones style and a magic system that doesn't look much like what shows up in classic fantasy.
Hmm interesting, I'm not surprised that the publishing industry has burned itself out on romantasy because publishing does have a history of doubling down wayyy too hard on a trend, and then tiring of it not long after. I'm sure there is an audience for my book (as well as established subgenres that describe the book) but I've just had a hard time finding those concrete comps. However, the draft turned out soooo badly haha so I think I have to put it aside for a while anyways, and so maybe when I come back to it, things will be clearer haha.
Your struggle of trying to place your book within the fanstasy/romantsy genre is so real!! I've also started working on a fantasy-ish? project recently (still in the worldbuilding and brainstorming stage) as someone who usually writes litfic, and I feel like the only reason that project is fantasy is because it's set in a different world, but it has nothing in common with any fantasy I've come across (which is, like you, already limited because the popular fantasy books don't appeal to me). But really, my project is more sociological in nature that happens to be fantasy but it being fantasy is not the main thing, but it also really kind of is? So I basically felt so seen by your thought process about that 😭
I feel sooooo lost navigating fantasy subgenera haha, I feel like there *is* a term out there for what I'm writing but I just don't know what it is haha
Im stuck on genres too. Because you have to stick something on it, but if it isnt 100% fitting you'll be informed in a harsh manner. (Romance books getting slammed for having a not-happy ending). Hopefully Beta Readers can slap something on it easier than i can? :/ i have to go to work soon to prep breakfast for college students. Tooooo earrrrrly zzzz
Other than grammar, punctuation, and good self proof/editorial - I say, it’s up to you if your book is good/bad. Unless you’re paid to write, it’s all speculation. So write what you want to write, tell your story, and don’t over worry about others. Enjoy writing, and who cares if anyone reads it, it’s their loss. What matters is what matters to you. That said, YES, you should do your best work, and revise til finished before you submit. Who knows, you might catch a break here and there.
Very true! I think where I'm struggling is that I'm not happy with the work, it's not exciting me. So it's not really about worrying if other people won't like it, but the fact that right now, I don't like it.
Fourth wing seems to have life threatening stakes in their grizzly dragon riding underground. I would say if the romance is in the main plot, it could be called romantasy, or add to the subgenre by diversifying it. Also I have the same situation but I'm writing sci-fi but it's like low fantasy sci-fi and with a romance focus like outlander. So I'm in the same boat. In the end I gave in and said .. scifi
I am pretty sure romantasy is not going to be the right branding term for your book, whether it technically meets the definition or not. I think readers have a pretty rigid expectation of what they want from romantasy books.
this is confirming my suspicions haha - I wasn't sure if maybe it was a broader term than I was aware and could encompass a wider array of titles than the main style of romantasy you see, but i'm getting the sense that it really does mean something super specific and so even though my book is technically a fantasy romance...romantasy it is not LOL
If you're still looking for queer fantasy/romance comps at the time of posting this, might I recommend The Gracekeepers? Not perfect or even a favorite, but may cater to a similar audience as your book. The romance definitely takes a backseat for a lot of that story, but we all know it's there ;)
Best writing channel on UA-cam!!
I agree!
I start my masters in January! Masters buddies
omg congrats!!
Yes, protect your work! People are dicks!
I think you explained in a previous video, better than I ever could, that 5-act structure (or in some cases 6-act structure) is just easier. Being more specific results in less labor.
Genre has been making me sad lately. Genre just makes people want you to do things that you don't want to do.
I suspect, however, that a lot of the truly great books create a genre instead of worrying about fitting into one. The easiest rules to follow are the rules you've written for yourself.
Happy for the sprints you've had on planes. That is a gift. Not happy for your wallet though. To get to Europe, I find it would be cheaper to drive to Newfoundland, bring at least 4 liters (ideally 10) of tequila to a pier overlooking the Atlantic, and I get so wasted that my body literally floats. As far as I know there's no international law prohibiting a floating human. As long as my passport and credit card are in my pocket, all I have to do is land in Ireland (where they'll forgive me for not being sober) and convert enough of my savings to euros for bus fare, bags, toiletries and a week's worth of clothes. The only problem with that method is how difficult it would be to write while traveling.
Execution is where the disparate pieces of your headspace have to fit together and work. Ideas can be brought above the level of garbage at any time, but execution is bigger and takes commitment. My respect for you, Shaelin, has a lot to do with how much you commit.
Haha like I said in the video, the flight to Europe was covered by my workplace because it was for a work trip - otherwise I wouldn't have gone!
Yeah i hate genre too. All so that the book gets put on a shelf with stories like it. But this doesnt just burden us with a need to know all the tropes- have to deliver things like happy endings for certain genres OR ELSE! And i hate that, especially when desiring to mix up genres. I think ill just slap something generic and distanced on it "tradgedy-romance" sort of thing, etc.
I have the same thoughts as you about romantasy versus fantasy romance, but I have no clue on what the general consensus is🤷🏽♀
It sounds like you're writing romantic speculative fiction along the lines of This is How You Lose the Time War and The Gracekeepers which are high stakes speculative fiction that don't have a ton of characters or plot. They're mainly focused on the two main characters, so they're farily short books. Maybe it might help to think of it as a novella or short novel? I could be wrong but I doubt you're writing romantasy. To me that's not a genre but more of a trend and its readers are looking specifically for what you described: toxic hetero nonsense in a fantasy backdrop.
Actually I think you hit the nail on the head by saying that romantasy isn't so much a genre as a trend, and my book definitely doesn't fall into that trend. But yes it's for sure a shorter novel, so This Is How You Lose the Time War/The Gracekeepers (which I haven't read yet) might actually be really good comp titles!
Hey Shaelin! Long time viewer, rare commenter. I've been reading the romantasy books--most recently Fourth Wing and A Fate Inked in Blood, and I've read most of your published work--I believe you when you say they aren't aimed at the same audience, based on what little I know about how you write.
I'm finding that books labelled romantasy have clear YA roots, with similar immersion and emphasis on emotions. The prose tends to be simple--what Brandon Sanderson would call window pane. They have fast-paced, (thriller?) pacing, and the romance tends toward the erotic and often features two or more sex scenes. The worldbuilding is light, more set dressing than anything resembling lore.
Iron Widow had a strong romantic element, but it didn't fit neatly into the romantasy category--it also featured a queer romance. I'd definitely check that one out if you haven't yet. I recommend the audiobook, it was fantastic. My critique of that book is that it leans into melodrama at times, but it works for the story the author was telling. (not much of a criticism).
I'm imagining strong romantic fantasy akin to Xiran Jay Zhao's Iron Widow, with literary prose stylecomparable to N.K. Jemisin's Broken Earth or R.F. Kuang's The Poppy War. (There are probably more current comps, but it's not a genre I dip into often.) Obviously, I don't actually know anything about your book (good call to keep it close to the chest, btw), and I could be way off base. This is my best guess.
When I feeling like the book is bad or I'm getting bored, I read it from the beginning too. Like you, I also find it's better than I've convinced myself, and that spurs me to keep going.
Do you feel like you might be putting too much pressure on your performance because you're writing a more commercial project? When I write literary, I feel freer to follow my whims, whereas commercial fiction can feel burdened by reader expectations, especially when popular tropes are dragged by critics. I struggle with that a lot, and am curious as to whether or not other writers do too.
Love the channel. Can't wait to hear about your grad school experience.
Ohh this is really interesting and helpful! And honestly I think you're totally right about feeling more pressure writing a commercial project vs a litfic one, I feel like there's been a lot of overthinking throughout the process because I'm coming into a new genre space where there are Strong Genre Expectations and avid fantasy readers who know the genre wayyy better than I do, whereas I'm comfortable with literary fiction and reader expectations in terms of plot/character are less of a factor.
a great sapphic romantasy is bitterthorn by kat dunn! would highly recommend if you haven't read it already
I was gonna say!! Alison’s safes new A Dark and Drowning tide is another example
Keep enjoying life! 🛩🌏
Thanks for sharing your experience with writing while traveling. I have a six-week trip this autumn so I will probably write at least on the flights to and back (12 hours each)! ✈️ ✍🏻👩🏻💻
I know this is so random but I’ve been craving this specific kind of book lately, do you have any comp titles for the definition of impossible? I think that’s the vibe I want based off the all about my novel I watched like 8 years ago lmao hope this isn’t annoying to ask
Missed you!!
At least in the circles I'm in, no one can agree on what romantasy actually means. It could mean fantasy romance (in which the romance is the main plot and the fantasy is set dressing; it's genre romance in a fantasy world and is held to the expectations of genre romance) or it could mean romantic fantasy (in which the fantasy is driving the main plot and there's a significant romantic subplot). There is queer romantasy out there, but, as with many things queer, it gets buried so you do have to go digging for it.
Cozy fantasy doesn't necessarily imply domesticity, it's just the opposite of epic fantasy. One of the landmark titles of cozy fantasy, Can't Spell Treason Without Tea by Rebecca Thorne, does have moments of life or death stakes, but as a whole, the story is more personal and less political.
I think epic fantasy is what you're thinking of when you talk about "fantasy that isn't cozy fantasy or romantasy" that deals with kingdoms at war and saving the world, that GRRM and Brandon Sanderson are writing. There is much, much more fantasy beyond that and I doubt you'll have an issue finding an audience just because you don't fit in with either GRRM or SJM.
From what I've heard from publishing professionals I follow, traditional publishing is starting to tire of romantasy and is probably going to slow down publishing it in the next few years, so don't feel like you have to cling to that label if it doesn't fit. You could call it romantic fantasy, which I don't think is necessarily held to the same vibe as romantasy or fantasy romance, and it sounds like it would fit. It's also perfectly acceptable to just call it fantasy. You don't have to perfectly nail down a subgenre if none of them feel quite right, they're all going to end up in the same section of the bookstore.
I've been reading much more sci fi than fantasy recently so I'm blanking on more titles to recommend, but based on what little I know about both this book and your book, you might be interested in The Bone Orchard by Sara A Mueller. Idk if it's queer (the first couple chapters I read have a sort of queer vibe but idk if it's the same kind of queer vibe you're going for) but it does have a bit of a kind of political plot but not all out Game of Thrones style and a magic system that doesn't look much like what shows up in classic fantasy.
Hmm interesting, I'm not surprised that the publishing industry has burned itself out on romantasy because publishing does have a history of doubling down wayyy too hard on a trend, and then tiring of it not long after. I'm sure there is an audience for my book (as well as established subgenres that describe the book) but I've just had a hard time finding those concrete comps. However, the draft turned out soooo badly haha so I think I have to put it aside for a while anyways, and so maybe when I come back to it, things will be clearer haha.
Your struggle of trying to place your book within the fanstasy/romantsy genre is so real!! I've also started working on a fantasy-ish? project recently (still in the worldbuilding and brainstorming stage) as someone who usually writes litfic, and I feel like the only reason that project is fantasy is because it's set in a different world, but it has nothing in common with any fantasy I've come across (which is, like you, already limited because the popular fantasy books don't appeal to me). But really, my project is more sociological in nature that happens to be fantasy but it being fantasy is not the main thing, but it also really kind of is? So I basically felt so seen by your thought process about that 😭
I feel sooooo lost navigating fantasy subgenera haha, I feel like there *is* a term out there for what I'm writing but I just don't know what it is haha
I like the main plot carrying the twin subplots, while both MC's strive to con the other. Intrigues me.
Shaelin I haven't seen you in a why and today UA-cam randomly recommended you and here I am... hope you are doing great!
Im stuck on genres too. Because you have to stick something on it, but if it isnt 100% fitting you'll be informed in a harsh manner. (Romance books getting slammed for having a not-happy ending). Hopefully Beta Readers can slap something on it easier than i can? :/ i have to go to work soon to prep breakfast for college students. Tooooo earrrrrly zzzz
05:05 Ayyy that's my birthday!!! 🎂🎈
❤️☺️
Other than grammar, punctuation, and good self proof/editorial - I say, it’s up to you if your book is good/bad. Unless you’re paid to write, it’s all speculation. So write what you want to write, tell your story, and don’t over worry about others. Enjoy writing, and who cares if anyone reads it, it’s their loss. What matters is what matters to you. That said, YES, you should do your best work, and revise til finished before you submit. Who knows, you might catch a break here and there.
Very true! I think where I'm struggling is that I'm not happy with the work, it's not exciting me. So it's not really about worrying if other people won't like it, but the fact that right now, I don't like it.
Fourth wing seems to have life threatening stakes in their grizzly dragon riding underground. I would say if the romance is in the main plot, it could be called romantasy, or add to the subgenre by diversifying it. Also I have the same situation but I'm writing sci-fi but it's like low fantasy sci-fi and with a romance focus like outlander. So I'm in the same boat. In the end I gave in and said .. scifi
@@RebuildRetreat i meant that cozy fantasy tends not to have life threatening stakes, not romantasy! It’s for sure common in romantasy!
@@ShaelinWrites oh you're right sorry I mixed that up in my head! That was a good insight!
I am pretty sure romantasy is not going to be the right branding term for your book, whether it technically meets the definition or not. I think readers have a pretty rigid expectation of what they want from romantasy books.
this is confirming my suspicions haha - I wasn't sure if maybe it was a broader term than I was aware and could encompass a wider array of titles than the main style of romantasy you see, but i'm getting the sense that it really does mean something super specific and so even though my book is technically a fantasy romance...romantasy it is not LOL
If you're still looking for queer fantasy/romance comps at the time of posting this, might I recommend The Gracekeepers? Not perfect or even a favorite, but may cater to a similar audience as your book. The romance definitely takes a backseat for a lot of that story, but we all know it's there ;)
Ohh this actually looks like SUCH a good potential comp to my book - and I just read a book by Kirsty Logan recently and really enjoyed it!