Drilling and Installation of Vertical Geothermal Loops
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лют 2015
- More at www.drillyourownwell.com From the Drill Your Own Well Series. This video shows the techniques used by commercial well drillers to install geothermal vertical loops. It is useful when trying to drill your own well to know how the pros do it. This shows how a commercial drilling rig operates.
- Навчання та стиль
Very informative not just for ground source heat, but the whole drilling process was shown which is really appreciated. Thanks.
I have one an love it!!!everyone should have this!!!
Very informative video. Great videography, shot angles, and narration. Thanks for the excellent information!
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
This is exactly what I wanted to see, thank you
you are a legend for making this
[blush] I don't know about that!
Really cool video which detailed exactly what you'd expect from having a contractor do the drilling instead of doing it yourself.
Thanks!
Very good.. I like the technics and visual also.
+Ganesh man Lama Thanks!
Great video!
Greetings from neighbor Pensacola!!!
Thanks, Neighbor!
Very interesting- enjoyed it - thanks !
Great!
Those guys are awesome!
this is an excellent video and it is the exact some processes for oil rig as well just bigger you clear concise narrative is great and recording is clear and focus is spot on thank you most videos either lie in intro or just suck and lie AGAIN THANKS WAS AWSOME AND INFOMATIVE you should do more on a variety of things your good at it and your voice is the right blend to attract not repel the viewer and that sir is a gift
+edwin nelson Thanks, Edwin!
Very cool.
I am an old diamond driller.
Watching these guys work together in harmony is wonderful.
I doubt they would like it if called it a ballet but it is like a great rock band jamming together in symphony.
Or maybe poetry in motion.
Anyway they are totally connected with each other's moves and aware of how to do a dangerous job without anyone getting hurt.
And they are having fun while they do it too.😄
Well done.
Thank you.
Thanks for the observation!
Thanks you for the video. Very informative.
Thanks!
Very helpful, thank you!
You're welcome!!
Awesome video, thanks
Thanks! and thanks for watching!
Lot of finger smashing opportunities in that job. Nice video. For some reason, I have been binge watching water well drilling videos. Now I have to go find out what Vertical Geothermal Loops are. ( I have a sneaking idea, though.)
Good for you! Thanks for watching.
This is very cool. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
thanks for sharing
Awesome video and presentation! If possible, please describe process of drilling permits, surveys of utilities, and overall cost of work. Also, do a Part #2 of how the wells are connected to the heating/cooling appliances within the house and cost savings to gained to switching to geo-thermal system.
The drilling company took care of the necessary permits so I don't really know. The wells are connected to a manifold that recirculates water through each loop individually.
@@dawmlw any unexpected issues or repairs
@@suzyrottencrotch5132 Not so far.
I did a VHE testing job in Grand Forks, ND this last summer...lasted from May until November, with the compaction testing of the circuits included. 648 VHE loops tested, talk about monotonous. The circuits would've been completed sooner, but they had an unusual amount of rain, and couldn't move the rigs or get proper compaction. Each hole averaged 290 feet. Close to 36 miles of VHE's and borings.
What were you doing such a large number of loops for?
@@nickjohnson811 was for an HQ for a power co-op
If possible, I'd like to see more of the installation. For example, I'm sure the holes back filled with something. If so, what? What did you do with the sludge that came out of the hole? In what manner were the loops connected, and how deep did you bury those loop connections? Basically, a talk through of everything you did once the holes were dug and the loop system installed, to get your geothermal system up and running. Including the time taken, products used, permissions needed, and approximate costs. Plus an update on how this system is performing, after so many years. This was very interesting. Thanks for the posting of this video.
It is working fine. No backfill in the holes. Just a little at the surface. The surface runs are about a foot under the surface.
@@dawmlw Surprised there was no backfill. How do you ensure there is no air spaces in the hole? Air will reduce heat conductivity and slow heat transfer.
@@KB3M Everything under 15 feet is groundwater.
You can but it cuts both ways. With HDPE it lasts virtually forever. With metal pipe it will eventually corrode. Stainless and galvanized will take longer but they will go. With copper, you might stand a chance but it is costly....
What does the surface installation look like after; do you do your tie ins 8 ft down etc? What if you ran plastic casing before you inserted your lines?
In the near future I will be investing into my property and geothermal would be the most beneficial, I already have a well drilled and functional on my property...
thanks for making this video much appreciated
Try not to think water usage when you think geothermal. All you really want is to have an ability to store heat and cold. Transfer the heat into the house in winter from the thermal mass of some area under the ground or move the heat out to that mass in summer leaving the cold behind to cool the house. Water is just the medium to aid in that transfer outside just like the refrigerant is the medium inside the house. Just have enough surface area to make the exchange happen. It can be properly sized vertical holes or just properly arranged lines of piping placed at a sufficient depth (6 feet or more) under the ground in long lengths or in a slinky configuration. The horizontal closed loop verses the vertical closed loop with each having its own benefits and drawbacks. But just remember the "closed loop" part. Don't unnecessary waste water. Closed loops work quite well. Just size them properly. Get a professional, get some one who isn't going to bid on the job.
Great video. Why not also show the back filling of the hole or is that done by the crew that connects the pipes?
Probably should have....
The “drilling fluid” what is it? Will impact your water source/table if on a well? Great video, thanks for taking the time.
It is water with some bentonite mixed in.
We are looking at a new home with a Geothermal system. It's been on the market for 6 months. My realtor says a lot of people are scared of this type of system because it can be expensive to repair. Do you know how reliable they are and if we might be looking at a money pit? Thanks.
Hello. It is a great video! Did You measure it efficiency? What is the temperature of water coming out of the pipe when supplyto the loop is let say 10 deg .C ?
It stays close to 60F except during the hottest part of the year when it can go up to 90F. Like after three or four weeks over 90F. The loops heat ups. The air conditioning system still works well even in this condition though.
very cool video, any updated videos on how its performing years later ? also are the holes cased with pvc or steel casing by anychance?
We sold that house a couple years ago and it was working perfectly then.
Thanks for sharing this video. Those threads must be made of some MEAN steel, not to be damaged with all of the clinking around against those steel surfaces.
I agree! They are very expensive and very tough.
Big threads so they can take the punishment if the get chipped they can be "dressed" with a file.
What kind of savings are you getting with your geothermal AC? Is it able to keep up with the summers in LA?
Not as much as I had hoped. I'm guessing 20% less, maybe 25%. It is able to keep up with the summers in LA though!
thanks
Hello sir your video is very educative, just i have 1 doubt, you told that your pump is 4 m3/h for 4 loops of 250 foot each one, what pressure and power characteristisc is the pump, and till now the installation made on this video still running givving good results?
Each of the pumps is a 1/6 hp Grundfos pump. They were still running fine after seven years but two were running a little warm so I just replaced them. I got the stuff at Geo-Hydro Supply. Greg there is extremely helpful.
Looking at doing this too in the sandy soil of Fort Walton Beach, FL. Some questions: How good is the system working after a few years, is it still up to par? Did you try it only with your initial wells and did it work? How deep are the connecting pipes going back to the geo system. Thanks
B Boyle, the system is working fine. The initial wells only totaled 250 feet and we have a four ton A/C. You need 250 feet per ton so we needed more. Matter of fact, it is a good idea to put in extra. The connecting pipes are only about a foot down and they should be deeper, just to avoid getting easily cut. Having said all that, if we had it to do over, we wouldn't. Modern conventional A/C units are more efficient and easy to get serviced.
Up North We have to install the collector lines below the Frost line and add glycol To the source loop to prevent it from freezing. I guess in Florida you won't have to worry about that.
@@dawmlw Yes I saw carrier now has a 42 SEER mini split vs around 30 seer for geothermal heat pumps!
@@khandam7709 dang
Total cost of everything can you separate individual pricing that would be amazing?
hello iam wondring how you put down the rig while its torned drilling its seems the mandin closed upon the rig
kml mdl I'm sorry but I don't understand the question. What do you mean by mandin?
I noticed they run no casing? Always thought they ran casing in around the loop system down the casing? It appears they’re just allowing the smaller loop system to be eventually surrounded by the collapsed borehole?
Yes. The pipes need to conduct heat. Contacting wet dirt is a good thing. Casing is needed for a well supplying drinking water.
great video,but I didn't see if they fill the hole with mud or sand or anything else,did they leave it hollow,how is it going to transfer the heat from the ground to the water in the pipe,if the pipe isn't packed with soil and there is an air filled void in the hole?
The sand collapses down around the PEX.
Also after about 10 feet down, it is under water.
Maybe where you are there is water but...Doesn't matter. Closed wells must be treated like an abandoned drinking well. Must be closed in. Most states require this in their codes. Open wells are different and some States still allow them, but not many. You are removing ground water from the well and either discharging it on the surface after use or must return ground water to a separate hole. Closed loop is the favored way to go. You can control PH, contaminants and use antifreeze in colder climate in a closed system.
What system system did you install? 3 ton? How many holes and how deep did they drill them?
Jake, he mentioned he has a four ton heat pump. If I heard correctly, he drilled four holes, each just a bit more than the 250 feet of poly tubing they ran down each one. He needed 1000 feet in total.
2-500 ft deel might have been better. Deeper means warmer ground temperatures
Where can I look to find a company that does this drilling and installation of Vertical Geothermal loops in Oregon or Washington. Is there some organization of these drillers?
Thanks.
I'm sorry but I don't know of any specific sources. Start with the well drillers in your area.
you can search one in google
I’m in the UK. Makes me chuckle the clothing they wear. There’s no way we would get away with jeans and a T shirt. It’s steel toe caps on your boots or leave the site immediately. Safety glasses for everybody and gloves. Hard hats and probably high visibility vest. You rarely see jeans worn on site these days.
You got to remember workers lives are cheap in the USA, Bosses don`t give a shit most times about their safety or health unless it costs them more by medical claims .
The dollar is more important than human lives in Murica
As an American, I appreciate the freedom to decide for myself. I would have chosen safety glasses, steel toe shoes, and gloves. But what is wrong with jeans?
@@PeterLawton in the UK theres a feeling that we must protect the NHS (National Health Service). The queues are long enough with people who have a legitimate reason to be there. We don't need someone jumping the queue because hes been accidentally hit on the head whilst not wearing a hard-hat. Puts unnecessary demands on Doctors & Nurses.
@@Known-unknowns Perhaps we should be wearing hard hats, protective eyewear, work gloves, steel toe boots and chainsaw chaps everyday, for everyone? Higher fines for those not wearing safety gear while driving.
I'd even add mandatory bulletproof vests for everyone, because who knows when you might be present during a mass shooting?
Living is quite dangerous. Don't forget to mask up and get your 86 vaccinations.
don't you grout at the wells to increase the thermal conductivity?
We have water about eight or nine feet down so the bottom 240 feet are under water.
What was the cost and was this just for heating the ho.e or electricity
This is always the most important question and it is rarely answered.
He already said it in the video - he was using it for cooling. If you want geothermal energy for electricity, unless you're near a volcano you'll be drilling several miles deep. You're not going to get electricity from 250ft.
We dont use a portable mud pit in west virginia. There is very little sand. Mostly solid bedrock. So we just drill with water and big air.
Interesting! thanks!
Was it 500 feet of pipe cut in half? so about 250 feet in the ground. and does the heat transfer happen mostly where the water is in the ground. Has aluminum pipe ever been tried, because i did an experiment years ago with the transfer on heat with the aluminum submerged in water, Thanks for the nice video
It was 500 feet of HDPE with a ubend in the middle. HDPE is used instead of metal because it won't corrode. It easily lasts 50 years.
Most States require closed loop wells to be intentionally encased in grouting cement so they are "sealed" and therefore are able to transfer the heat/cold to the surrounding areas. Yes, wet ground transfers better and it is considered in the formula but distance is the key. The more you have below 6 feet the better. All the pipes including the ones back to the house should be below 6 feet.
When u drill these wells you first drill till u hit the rock. Then u put a pip and seal the rock and pip so no groundwater can leak in to the well. And also seal the top of the pip. Why? U dont want water from the garden to get down deep into the ground an pollute deep groundwater.
Hi John, 99% right. You drill to the required depth even if it is through rock. Everything else is spot on. You are conflating the drilling of a water well with the drilling of a geothermal vertical well. The water well is dug and you must place piping down into bedrock to keep surface groundwater from contaminating your drinking water and possibly the aquifer you are drawing your water from. Some states used to allow you to draw water from a well and just dump it on to the surface after you used it in the geothermal system, Some even allowed you to take from one well and return the water back to another well.( called open well geothermal) Both are highly frowned upon due to contamination issues and the waste of ground water brought to the surface just to be used for heating or cooling. Some water wells can be converted to geothermal by the process similar to the decommission of a well. Most states require the owners of an obsolete water well to fill them in with grout/concrete or just put in a geothermal pipe and using bentonite or similar products to fully seal the well. (closed well geothermal). Then you can re-purpose the well.
Hi Walt, interesting. There are ground water at different levels i guess. And we don't want to mix these levels to much. I did go after the Swedish model and my own energy well (623 feet deep). When they drilled that it was only 22 feet till bedrock. And the iron pipe ends a bit below the surface of the lawn. They welded a plate on top of the pipe and the plastic tubing goes thru that plate. So no special seal. They also do a test for the water flow down in the bedrock. If there are a lot of cracks that is good, then the water can travel they say and that makes the well stronger. It can be cooled a lot harder and not freeze.
there are a rule here too. The nextdoor house, can not put his energy well closer than 65 feet to the next energy well.
That's all sand and stuff easy easy drilling . Way Up north we Drill in glaciel Formations . Boulders , granite , quartz , running sands all of the toughest formations . And water starts around 12 feet most places 🙏
true!
How close may vertical loops be placed?
I don't know but the further apart, the better. I've read that you should put them at least 20 feet apart. I wish I could be of more help...
@@dawmlw Yes, I've been told the same thing: minimum 20 feet.
What tempertures can HDPE withstand? Can it withstand 250°F and steam pressures? This would be my ideal solution to run a steam turbine to produce electric power.
I'm sorry, I don't know.
Question if they plugged up with iron why did you not use a very strong magnet and water softener without chemicals!! To prevent iron from being trapped inside the line and caking it!!!
might have been worth a try.
Do you pressure test the u-joint of PE pipe before it goes into the hole?
I don't know. The drilling company brought it out and installed it.
the head its cosed whlie you drill and how you go down
kml mdl I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but the top of the drillhead is closed to the top so all of the drilling fluid is forced down the drillstem.
Terrific information. Is there a book or class that details things out further or is this one of those trade professions where you must apprentice? I'd like to learn more, but I don't know where to start.
Aletoldeo1, that is one of those things you really have to research locally. Most state laws require a licensed driller to go through an apprenticeship. I am not a licensed driller and I really just don't know that much about the licensing process even in my home state. The easiest way to find out is to call some local drillers or the state board that licenses them. Thanks for watching the video!
+aletoledo1 There's no schooling necessary. You can hire right on to most drilling companies. You'll start as a drill hand "helper". Basically what the two guys on the ground were doing. It takes months or sometimes a year or so to learn to drill. There's A LOT to learn before you start pulling levers on a drill rig. It's one of those learn on the job type professions. As for getting a drillers license, there are tests you can take to get them from your state Department of Natural Resources.
I like the work 0589610540
0589610540
Can you drill through limestone with one of these? Thanks
Yes, but it will cost more than going through clay/sand.
dawmlw Thanks for the prompt response. Is that purely because of the extra time it takes, or do you need to use a more expensive drill bit as well?
I think it is just time. In our area there is no limestone so the drillers charge by the foot knowing they will only hit clay. Where there is limestone or sandstone the drillers will also charge by the foot but likely will be higher because they know they will be going a little slower. Not much though... They can go through limestone pretty easy.
dawmlw Thank you.
The Thermal conductivity of rock Is much better than clay. Therefore You don't need to install as many feet of well . There are computer programs that can calculate this for you.
How do they connect the ends of the loop in the bottom of the well loop?
maakjar There is a special fitting called a u-bend that is built into the pipe. Look at the shots of the pipe while it is completely out of the ground and you will see the fitting.
Thanks for watching!
Mike
+maakjar The two pieces of HDPE pipe are connected with a U-bend union. The union is HEAT FUSED to the pipe. It is as stronger than glue, and won't leak. HDPE loop pipe has a minimum 50 year guarantee, but expected to last past 100 tears.
How do you know how deep you need to drill?
Math
did you subcontract the entire system? hired your own drillers for the vertical loop.
+Jon Car As I explained in the video, I did 250 feet of vertical loop in four months, then these guys installed another 750 feet in five hours! I concluded after drilling 250 feet that I wasn't up for drilling a thousand feet of vertical loop.
Understand that. So you saved money by having that done instead of contracting that out with heating and cooling contractor.
I forgot you already had a geo system.
+Jon Car No problem Jon! Thanks for watching!
How much did this operation cost?
A couple thousand dollars.
Excellent video but I wish you did a how too from beginning to end like you did the how too drill your own well. Maybe you did and I didn't find them. Thank you
I put up lots of videos and lots of webpages on how to do it. Did you checkout the website listed in the description? It clearly shows the process of drilling a well. Not putting in geothermal loops but drilling wells.
@@dawmlw thanks, I'll check the website
Is the well cased? What if it collapses?
We want it to collapse. To hug the pipe and insure heat transfer to the surrounding soil/sand/water.
Ok, I'm not sure how everything thong works. So this is part of my research. I was thinking about going with climate master and doing a horizontal closed loop system and add the radiant floor aux heat pump.
sounds like a plan. Good luck!
Is head drill make water where is waste come to surfaces? As a young I see take entire house this wAy 😎
What the fuck
How did you dig 5 50 foot holes on your own?
Using the techniques on the website listed in the description.
Did you use you 50 foot holes for anything?
In NY drillers are doing $40 a ft with grout.
yikes!
What is diameter and schedule of HDPE pipe ?
3/4 inch
don't know about schedule...
@@dawmlw thanks
@@dawmlw can't we use metal pipe? For higher heat transfer rate.
@@zahidlatif874 i think you can but metal usually corrodes over time
For geothermal, plastic tubing is a bad heat conductor. I would of used aluminum tubing in the wells.
You are right but HDPE lasts longer. Like more than our lifetime.
Aluminum lasts few years and you have to do it all over again, not cheap buddy.
The video did not show how the two holes were connected. The diagram early in the video shows that fluid is pumped down one hole and comes up the second hole. How are these connected? The video doesn't say anything about this seemingly important aspect of the design.
They are connected via HDPE in a trench that was dug several days later.
@@dawmlw Why even bother to reply if your not going to provide useful information? Does the trench connect the bottom of the holes? The top? The diagram shows that fluid is pumped down one hole and then traverses a horizontal path to the bottom of the second hole, and then up the second hole. Is this not the case?
@@anthonylewandowski7949 The trench connects the top of the holes. A loop of HDPE goes into one hole, comes back up that hole, and then goes through the trench to the next hole. And so on. I'm sorry I have disappointed you.
I was beginning the process of looking into installing a geothermal system in my house. I have a few questions right off the bat, but here's the main one right now.
Why would someone choose horizontal over vertical if vertical is apparently more effective and also much less invasive to your yard with the drilling process?
I'm very early in this process and it sounds like a great idea because the financing for it would be much less than what I'm paying for oil heat and central air, on top of the value increasing on the home and the environmental benefits. I live in a suburban neighborhood where the houses are pretty close together, so I want to avoid as much damage to the yard as possible to prevent irritating my neighbors who basically share a portion of the yard on the side of our houses. Any other information you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Trench digging machinery is much more plentiful than well digging machinery.
I need
I can't see in ANY videos with any detail of the "U bend". They all seem to skip over that crucial part!
I'm curious if this is a 'fitting', or is the tube itself simply doubled over with something preventing it from 'kinking'? Stuff like this nags at me.. : ))
Thanks for any additional info!
It is a fitting that comes already installed in the end of the loop.
@@dawmlw Ahh..really? So not fit to the length needed once determined? Thanks for the response! : )
@@timrick2 It comes in pre-set loops. Like mine were 250 feet. 500 feet total tube with a U bend fitting at the bottom.
@@dawmlw Oh!!! Well, that makes sense. I had the image in my head like a spool of poly pipe for irrigation. Thank you VERY much. It's appreciated!!!
The wells did not have to be that spaced out, Heat cannot travel that far between them.
How far was that? That info wasn't discussed.
@@terrafirma9328 Judging by the video.
Use a horizontal loop layout. I witnessed a highly engineered, multi well system fail miserably. If you build for longevity, a well constructed ground loop can outlast a good water source heat pump.
Thanks.