Outline: 00:24 Introduction 00:57 Importance of Genre 4:16 Job as a Thought Experiment 5:57 Pushing Extremes 7:28 Job as a Literary Construct 11:21 God's Words in a Thought Experiment 12:53 Benefits of Seeing Job as a Thought Experiment 14:40 Book not about Heavenly Discussions 15:47 Rhetorical Strategy: Structure and the Wisdom Hymn 20:20 Dialogues and Discourses 23:30 Rhetorical Strategy and Authorial Intent 26:17 End
If you check under the right side of the video with three dots on pc you can click on it and access the open transcript which will show up when you click it.
Really enjoying this series but I think you’ve completely misunderstood the divine council scene. I don’t even think you can make the case that the Satan in Job is our “devil”.
This lecture 4 is very thought provoking lecture indeed.. thanx you.. If the book was a literary construct within it's rhetorical strategy,..who ( what authority) can decide which wrong conclusions as a side efffects of its rethorical strategy...? Is the literary construct was developed by (only one) Author or more, as it' s growth in time,.. is the any archeological funding conforming this ?.. Is any data from genesis aphocryphon about this book of Job?... What is the jewish understanding about this book is the same consepts or differ? Thank You Dr. John Walton
I'm enjoying the series so far. Only why spend so much time on historicity? Why are some parts of Christianity obsessed with historicity when we now know much of the OT is fiction, folklore, or inaccurate as history? Job may or may not have been based on a real person, there's no way to know, so we might as well forget about it. Point is, it is irrelevant. What matters is that the thought experiment scenario is in principle realistically possible. I'm curious about the difference between Proverbs' view that wisdom leads to prosperity and Job's that there's no such guarantee. Hope you get to that later in the series.
Probably good to look at Rick Hess's book on the historicity of the Old Testament. Christianity is rooted in the mighty acts of God in history (Exodus, Resurrection...). If those are not historical there is no Christianity. IMHO
@@tedhildebrandt_BeL Thanks for replying. My point is that the message of Job doesn't depend on historicity. In a way it'd make more sense as deliberately contrived. The historicity of the resurrection I agree with, but the Exodus is questionable. Some sort of exodus from Egypt must have happened for a group of Semites who picked up a primitive form of yahwism somewhere and brought it into Canaan. But the Exodus story as presented in the Bible is not only unsupported by archaeology, it's logistically impossible. From the divided monarchy onward it seems OK, just the earlier you go the less it's history as we think of it and more like folklore and ideology, often dating from centuries later. BTW I've listened to 7 videos so far in the series and I love it. Thank you so much for making these talks available to the public.
You might try the various series on Proverbs to work on that wealth concept. Need to understand Proverbs as a genre first, as I don't believe wealth is used in a mono-valent way in Proverbs. Ray Van Leeuwen has his dissertation on Proverbs 25-27 on Wealth in Proverbs that might be interesting to track down. Good questions to wrestle with.
By saying that this book was a literary construct, which is focused on wisdom,..but what kind of wisdom then,...true one or falsch?.. Simple hebrew faith won"t have this kind of category of this kind of text critism, by which wrong projection of mind could be occur....???
Great Lecture!!! Thanks for explaining the Book of Job in a new way I have never heard it!!
Outline:
00:24 Introduction
00:57 Importance of Genre
4:16 Job as a Thought Experiment
5:57 Pushing Extremes
7:28 Job as a Literary Construct
11:21 God's Words in a Thought Experiment
12:53 Benefits of Seeing Job as a Thought Experiment
14:40 Book not about Heavenly Discussions
15:47 Rhetorical Strategy: Structure and the Wisdom Hymn
20:20 Dialogues and Discourses
23:30 Rhetorical Strategy and Authorial Intent
26:17 End
This was an amazing lecture. Thank you so much. Is there a written transcript anywhere?
If you check under the right side of the video with three dots on pc you can click on it and access the open transcript which will show up when you click it.
Really enjoying this series but I think you’ve completely misunderstood the divine council scene. I don’t even think you can make the case that the Satan in Job is our “devil”.
This lecture 4 is very thought provoking lecture indeed..
thanx you..
If the book was a literary construct within it's rhetorical strategy,..who ( what authority) can decide which wrong conclusions as a side efffects of its rethorical strategy...?
Is the literary construct was developed by (only one) Author or more, as it' s growth in time,..
is the any archeological funding conforming this ?..
Is any data from genesis aphocryphon about this book of Job?...
What is the jewish understanding about this book is the same consepts or differ?
Thank You Dr. John Walton
I'm enjoying the series so far.
Only why spend so much time on historicity? Why are some parts of Christianity obsessed with historicity when we now know much of the OT is fiction, folklore, or inaccurate as history? Job may or may not have been based on a real person, there's no way to know, so we might as well forget about it. Point is, it is irrelevant. What matters is that the thought experiment scenario is in principle realistically possible.
I'm curious about the difference between Proverbs' view that wisdom leads to prosperity and Job's that there's no such guarantee. Hope you get to that later in the series.
Probably good to look at Rick Hess's book on the historicity of the Old Testament. Christianity is rooted in the mighty acts of God in history (Exodus, Resurrection...). If those are not historical there is no Christianity. IMHO
@@tedhildebrandt_BeL Thanks for replying. My point is that the message of Job doesn't depend on historicity. In a way it'd make more sense as deliberately contrived.
The historicity of the resurrection I agree with, but the Exodus is questionable. Some sort of exodus from Egypt must have happened for a group of Semites who picked up a primitive form of yahwism somewhere and brought it into Canaan. But the Exodus story as presented in the Bible is not only unsupported by archaeology, it's logistically impossible. From the divided monarchy onward it seems OK, just the earlier you go the less it's history as we think of it and more like folklore and ideology, often dating from centuries later.
BTW I've listened to 7 videos so far in the series and I love it. Thank you so much for making these talks available to the public.
You might try the various series on Proverbs to work on that wealth concept. Need to understand Proverbs as a genre first, as I don't believe wealth is used in a mono-valent way in Proverbs. Ray Van Leeuwen has his dissertation on Proverbs 25-27 on Wealth in Proverbs that might be interesting to track down. Good questions to wrestle with.
We're probably related a few generations back.
Always wondered whether it was "d" and how we got to "dt" on the end of "Hildebrandt." My clan is from Niagara Falls, NY area.
By saying that this book was a literary construct, which is focused on wisdom,..but what kind of wisdom then,...true one or falsch?..
Simple hebrew faith won"t have this kind of category of this kind of text critism, by which wrong projection of mind could be occur....???