Big Cruiser Market is Done
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- The big cruiser market really looks like it's done if you judge by the metric manufacturers. Metric manufactures have scaled back their offerings in the big cruiser v twin segment dramatically. It's like they've pretty much surrendered the big cruiser market to Harley-Davidson and Indian. But there still are metric big cruiser options with a v twin engine out there from Kawasaki and Yamaha. These are really the only two big players left producing a v twin engine other than Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycle.
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With the price so close to Harley and Indian would you still buy the Yamaha or would you go with the Kawasaki for way less?
I did go with the Vaquero. Intake, exhaust and tune for better than stock performance. Led lights front and rear. Stayed side by side with a street glide that had a 124 in it. For less than half the price!
I have a 2021 road king classic and that's my baby I love it. However the vaquero I believe is the best bang for the buck in the bagger market.
Being a HD owner...I love riding my HD...I have test rode the Yamaha Venture...Very impressed with it...But yes the price is alot and it doesnt have the fit and finish of an HD....But...I could see getting the 2018 Eluder version in a low mileage used for 15K out the door...As long as i could keep my HD too...
I would think that the resale value would stay higher on Harley or India.
Opted me to purchase one or the other and not the Yamaha
Indians hold their value just as well as a Harley, but metrics ain't worth nothing used.
I'm a Harley guy but the Yamaha Road Star was what Harley should have been especially engine wise at the time. The 1700 was an incredibly strong reliable motor. Loved mine.
One thing I noticed is.. yeah people buy HD over the metrics but you didn't mention that almost all of the HD owners dump thousands more into them before even leaving the dealership. Stage kits, mufflers, ecm mods, air filters etc.
Oh yeah for sure, that's part of the business model on Harley-Davidson. They make it very easy to get all that financed in on the bike.
I'm good. I'll still keep riding my 1949 hand shift / foot clutch El Panhead and starting it with a kickstarter in one or two kicks.
Yamaha had the 4 valve engine a lot longer than Harley did, and I still own Harleys, but that Yamaha Roadstar and the whole star line are really nice running and handling bikes. If you can't afford a Harley a used Yamaha can be bought cheap and they are a nice big V Twin
V4 engine on the Yamahas. The V4 is the absolute most superior engine design. Harley inevitably will need to make a 4 cylinder to expand their sales.
Those Yamaha motors are strong and they sound pretty good too.
Ck your History. Back in the boardwalk racing days(early `20`s and late teens) Many manufactures had 4 valve heads. Indian, Harley, just to name a few. The M-8 is not new tech!
@@alanflower4228 I think we were talking about modern engines in modern times. Harley's mass production engine's only had two valves per cylinder until 2016 when they introduced the M8, which pretty much seems like a updated copy of the EVO which would have been good if it wasn't a mess when they first introduced it in 2017, I mean really, what company that has been building engines since 1903 doesn't think the engine needs to be vented, and I still own Harleys, just not one with the M8, I had nothing but issues with my 2017 Roadking and sold it, and it also took the aftermarket to come up with some kind of fix, my experience was not good with the new M8 or the Harley customer support experience
@@dougturngren5027 not how I read it either. I'd have ti agree with Allen yiu just took the high road after you were proved wrong.
I have a 2004 Yamaha Road Star 1700 with 80k miles on it now. Paid $4000 for it, 6 years ago. I've owned Harleys and think they are beautiful, but so is my "Yamahawg", and the price and reliability are unmatched.
Years ago , a friend who was a service manager and excellent mechanic had a Yamaha Venture Royal. He took the V-Boost system of a wrecked V-Max and recalibrated the carbs and V-Boost butterflies to come on lower in the RPM range. Ended up with a Venture Royal that pulled power wheelies in 3rd gear!
Damn that's awesome! Very impressive I might add too!
Sounds rather dubious that a carb swap and a butterflyvalve will do that but ok lol
The discontinued Triumph Thunderbird line are actually great bikes with lots of torque. The main downside is the availability of aftermarket parts as well as some OEM. I have the Storm model - 1700cc with 98HP and 115lbs at the crank. It's a power cruiser, unlike the LT touring model, but nowhere near the long haul bike represented here.
This is why the BMW r18 will probably go the way of the buffalo as well. I love Beamers but the nearest dealer here in Texas is 109 miles away, and booked solid for services.
I bought a Super Chief last year and I love it.
I’ve owned the 113 Yamaha and it’s a excellent motor. Still find myself on a 103 Dyna. Certainly would not be afraid to run the yammahammer if I was on a budget. I’d slap some shocks on a 5 grand sporty before I’d have any of the others. I’ve had two of those and have found them super reliable and cost effective to run.
Yamaha builds an awesome motor and they are very reliable. Sportster has to be the best motor Harley ever built, they are pretty much bullet proof.
I been riding over 40 years so I can remember when a 750cc Kawasaki would smoke the hell out of bikes twice that size now....the way I understand is the government got involved with dictating gear ratios and that destroyed the performance of the smaller engine bikes. I had a Kawasaki LTD 454 that I bought brand new in 1986 (the only brand new bike ive ever bought), and it would do 128mph giving it absolutely everything it had to give, had a LTD 750 that was stupid fast and the fastest ive ever been on a bike was on that one.
On a side note that 454 cost me $2,150. out the door. Theres absolutely no way in hell I would ever spend the kind of money these guys are asking for a new bike these days.
I wish we could go back to the time when good bikes and cars could be bought for $500.-$1,000. before the dollar was completely destroyed.
That's back in the day when power output was way ahead of chassis, suspension and brakes! Lol the 750 two strokes were called widow makers for good reason lol!
@@GixxerFoo lol nah it wasnt that bad bro, I rode a lot of those old bikes, brakes were fine, i will say the suspension was a lil softer than the newer offerings but nothing you couldnt handle. One time I was passed out in car and it got stolen, when I finally got out I had to push start my bike and ride home drunk as fk...if I could get home that drunk on a 1986 bike it couldnt be that bad lmao
As a yamaha guy I have to say the ugly venture bike is a beast,did I mention ugly, and in the summer a serious nut roaster,but for the money an Fjr-1300 is a bike that can do anything you ask, very fast,super easy to maintain, handles like on rails and cheap compared with the big V-twins,a new one is under 20k out the door and can easily go 200 k miles just changing the oil,easy choice fer me bob.....
The trick to buying metric like the Yamaha TC or Kawasaki Vaquero or Voyager is to buy a left over 2 year old model at sometimes 5k less, especially on the Kawasakis. On the Kawasaki's go to Ivan's Performance Products and send in the ECU for a flashing and get a Big Air Kit. Add V and H ( maybe some others ) slip ons. All this for I am guessing 1500 dollars and you will get 90 hp and 115 lbs torque, which is a pretty good deal in my book. Or look around for a garage queen for a better deal. And the Kawasaki's are going to do you well, just do maintenance. I would have gone this route 5 years ago, but I bought a garage queen Victory Cross Country that is a fabulous bike.
My friends Mean Streak is a nasty bike, I might get one for myself
"With Victory folding..." Nah, they were murdered.
Awesome video!...my old 2006 yammi 1700 roadstar midnight silverado was a road king knock off!😉👍...I like my Harley though...will stick with them as long as they build them!...stay safe...ride safe!!😎👍🤙👍🤙🇨🇦
have a 05 ultra classic, wife and took 2wk road trips every year. must say it was nice having a harley dealer close by at every and any direction we rode. people were always nice, and we enjoyed purchasing a t-shirt on our travels as memory of our rides. Harley big cruisers rule.
That's the one main advantage of owning a Harley and taking road trips, you are never very far from a Harley Dealer
I walked into a multi-line dealership in SC and they had a leftover Star Eluder sitting on the floor. The salesman offered it to me for $5K off the list price before I had even opened my mouth. I wasn’t looking for a new bike and besides, the bike is too big to fit in the space where I have to park it. If I was to spring for a new bike it would be a Road King.
I like Harley Davidson but I've always been partial to the Vulcan. I really like the Vaquero. My uncle rides a Raider and has put well over 100 thousand miles on it with minimal maintenance.
Hey Gixxefoo, thanks for the shout out on the Kimimoto gloves, really warm and comfortable.
Any time! They are awesome at blocking the wind, I've been riding with them quite a bit here lately myself too!
Hello, Gixxer, If you haven't done-so already, I think a video outlining the problems in the M8 primary case would be interesting for your viewers. The auto-primary chain tensioner and the compensator are problematical! Thanks!
Yeah they are, all that started on the twin cam 96 too! Here's the video on it ua-cam.com/video/g3Ny5NYf9CQ/v-deo.html
Kawaski makes a great bike. Problem is, their cruisers are as soul-less as they are bombproof.
I would have to agree, they are solid as I'll get out and I've seen some high mileage Kawasaki's over the years!
@@GixxerFoo almost every big used Kawasaki cruiser I see for sale is in terrible shape.
I live in the Daytona Beach area, and I am quite familiar with the big cruisers. Many years ago, they were ridden by the young and restless, but now, they are just a bunch of geezers. Bikers who want reliability, safety and a bike that will actually go somewhere, instead of being seen somewhere, look the other way when a Harley approaches.
I have seen the Yamaha tourer discounted at dealers in Southern CA to $22K. I don't think I have seen one on the street. Next competition for HD and Indian is the new line of BMW cruisers and tourer using the boxer engine. Thanks for posting.
Come to think of it, I haven't seen the Yamaha in the wild either.
That new BMW is a good looking bike, that engine is quite interesting though. Haven't rode one with one of those motors before.
The BMW's are nice, but holy hell are they expensive to fix when things (inevitably) go bad. I'm a motor, and my stator went out on my R1200RTP. Took it to our dealer (all work has to be done at the dealer), and it was $4,100 to get the stator replaced. It's also very often that our windshield motors break. Granted I'm hard on my work bike, mostly because when I'm working speed I go from the bike being off to revving the hell out of it to catch up to someone speeding going 75mph lol.
Had an 05 Roadstar 1700 for 13 years. Unmatched reliability and fun. I’ve owned tons of HD and they just cost too much to own.
My next bike will be a goldwing. Been eyeing them for a couple of years now just not ready to drop the coin.
You can pick up a 2018 or 19 for under $20K. And it still won't be broke in!
@@migueljonz3901 even used at this time is more than I care to spend.
They are all beautiful bikes, but! The Harley tattoo on my right butt cheek would explode if I sat on anything other than Harley Davidson.
Yeah you don't want that bursting into flames or anything lol.
As far as the metric bikes go I've always been partial to the Kawasaki
You can get any after market part for a Harley, try that for any other Cruiser.
You should mention in an upcoming video the major hit a person takes in depreciation over just a three year period when purchasing non-harley motorcycles.
They trade low and sell high at those dealers.
Depreciation is terrible on metric bikes, you pay 18K new and sell it in three years the book puts you around 10 to 12K.
@@GixxerFoo that's why you don't buy a new metric bike, you buy one that's 3 to 5 years old with low miles, they are all over marketplace and craigslist for cheap. Also truer words were never spoken when it comes to purchasing a new Harley and then a few years later trying to trade it back in. They all depreciate quite a bit after three years, and forget it after five years. If you feel you need to buy a new Harley or a metric bike, and have a bike to trade in, usually you are much better off selling your old bike yourself. I bought my last new bike in 2017 and will never buy another new one. I will let someone else take the financial hit on the depreciation.
@@GixxerFoo I know my 2015 CVO Rushmore is still selling for 24-28k depending. The only people that trade in their Harley at the dealership are rich, lazy, or rich lazy people.
@William Calhoun That's on the dealer, not the manufacturer
There comes a time where TOO big becomes an issue. For example, a BMW R1100RT will get you where you need to go and get you 50 mpg. A Sportster 1200 will get you there and get you 50 mpg. Cruisers are not made to "race" anywhere, that is an oxymoron state. So, the metric section found out that 1800cc and 2053 cc is too much because their mpg went down to 30 - 35 mpg. The new bikes with the 1800 + cc get about 35 mpg. With gas going up to $5 +, motorcycles of large size become an issue. Of course, the media says we can all go out and travel the USA on the big tourers.... Got your vaccine? Got your big credit card? Got time to do it all with that $700 per month payment for that new cruiser/tourer? Nope, you just sit and polish that puppy in the garage.. Marketing today is fantastic. Most baby boomers can't ride across country because they are getting too old and cramp up over long trips. So, buy low priced and save yourself the trouble of expensive bikes. Remember, Officer Good ticket loves to give you that "limiting factor" on your engine speed and size. Also, truly how many people are going to have their engines taken a part and made bigger? Porn queens know that answer to that!!!! Size is their understanding....
It’s funny, H-D customer base is obviously dying off. Yet, each year, another group of successful 50 year olds emerge and dream of owning large American premium motorcycles. Personally, I’m grateful for Indian reemergence. Their product line is excellent and it’s good to give the MoCo some competition. Both products will be better for it.
All the haters out there gonna hate, seems human nature for some folks, but don’t be mad at the OG riding a large American scooter. Instead, work hard, plan your financial future, pray for a little luck in your endeavors and hopefully you’ll have some disposable income that you can waste on a new toy once your other obligations have been met.
Meanwhile, It’s a great time riding cross this great country with Nana on the back while pulling a trailer, total weight around 1700 lbs. A small displacement bike just won’t cut it.
I had an M109r Suzuki- open highway (110kmh) always got 60mpg (imperial gallons). Most economical bike I ever owned over 250cc. (CX500 only got 50mpg)
I've owned 2 2015 Honda Interstates thus far...gotta say I still love those bikes. Liquid cooled, amazing reliability, build quality was impressive ( minus the fiberglass fenders) . Nice set of bars, batwing fairing, Vance and Hines pipes and tuner... love my Softail standard but, kinda miss the flat out long distance reliability of my "Metric Twin". Truly dig ur videos, keep it up 🤙
I'm a Honda guy. Currently I ride a Valkyrie Interstate.
Out of the bikes mentioned. I would still go with a new Goldwing
You know it's something you don't hear very often just letting the motorcycle go to the scrap yard. I have have friends that are much older than me that remember most of them now are gone but when behind the Harley dealer or even the Indian dealer they had little scrap yards of motorcycles and you could go pick parts just like automobile.
I remember 20 years ago even I needed one adjustable push rod and I went to the local Harley dealer and ask them and it was like I was trying to rob the store used part LOL
I had the Yamaha Roadstar 1600 when they first came out. It was a great bike a the time. Great performace and handled better than the equivalent HD softail. I now have a HD Heritage 114 and I went this way partly for the resale. The roadstar depreciated a lot when I sold it where the HDs are retaining their value. I 've owned it for 2 years now and 2nd hand prices here in Australia are still near what I paid for it.
Been riding for 47 years. Where the metric bikes messed up if when they started trying to sell bikes that were way more expensive than they needed to be or should be. They thought the same people who wanted to drop 35k on a Harley or Indian wanted to give 30k for a metric. NOPE. When they had bikes under 15k they were flying out the door. They did not get taken over by Harley. They just priced themselves out of the market due to corporate greed. Best thing that happened to Harley and Indian. If theyd stayed on track Harley and Indian would be bunking with Victory
Yamaha started producing the 4 valve per cylinder 113 motor in 2006 with 100hp / 123 lb-ft. No sumping issues. Then in 2017 HD used that design in the M8.
Wow, didn't know that. I know absolutely nothing about imports and thanks for sharing that. Just goes to show how long it takes HD to catch up with the rest of the industry
Damn l didn't know that either, that's pretty impressive!
They did a 1600cc in 99 with 4 valves. The Harley head is dam near an exact copy of their 4 valve heads.
@@rickhh100 damn shame it takes HD that long to mirror something like that
@@rickhh100 Yes the Road Star with its 48° pushrod V-twin made 99 lb-ft. Reliable motor. Yamaha makes great products.
Moto Guzzis are another choice when talking bout big cruiser/tourers.
The Gold Wing is still the king of touring bikes.
No doubt that thing is a easy chair built to go make laps around the entire country.
🛑🛑 Resale, Resale……Resale 💴💰!!!!
Indian or Harley are holding their resale values, year by year; however you are going to “take it in the back side” when you go to trade your metric cruiser in on anything.
Both Indian and Harley, are doing a nice job in this sector, and both are “knocking it out of the park”
Me, I prefer a Harley; and even better a CVO Harley Bagger.
CVO bikes hold their value and are “extra special”, when pulling into your local bike night; regardless of year. 💯👍
Great Content…Gix👍😀
Thank you, I appreciate it!
I own 2 Harleys. Love them. Also was a pro HD MC test rider, 2 years. I also own an 06, 1854cc Yamaha Stratoliner and love it every bit as much as my HD's. It's bigger, smoother and nicer. But only a 5spd. I'm really sad to see the metrics leave the field. But it's the swagger of owning a Harley that is the biggest thing the metrics can't compete with. The BIG problem with owning a Harley is, today, Harleys are as common as a cup of coffee in a Cafe. In the 50's and 60's from whence I came, they were rare. Today?? Everyone gathers around and shows each other their Batwing. ...yawn.
I'm the guy with the 2007 1200 Sportster custom fuel injected blah blah blah. These are just crazy days and it's freezing in Erie Pennsylvania and just knowing my sportsters out there in the garage just gives me a thread of Hope for the future.
Triumph Rocket 3 with its 2500cc needs a fixed fairing bagger! 🇦🇺
They were done in 1970's when Honda came out with the CB 750
Great content! I work at a motorcycle shop and your videos keep me well rounded! 👍🏻
Thank you, I appreciate it! I worked at several shops from different brands over the years myself too!
We get the occasional wannabe Thor on a Hardley chugging through my Spanish pueblo.
The children laugh and point.
So do the bikers.
Yeah I’ll go with Harley as well because I wanna spend every penny I have to finish the motorcycle of my dreams because simply the factory didn’t!!! Don’t ask me how I know😜 Everyone is comparing something that is NOT a Harley to a Harley… The Honda Goldwing and the Yamaha whatever are the equivalent of Harley in the rest of the world same as the BMW K1600 series. It’s also the same idea that Harley is trying to achieve with the introduction of the Pan America! All great bikes nonetheless. Metric in the US is like buying a Harley in Pakistan or whatever. Hope you get my point. Great video there boss.
1st thing is try putting a set of fishtail exhaust on a metric bike, ridiculous. I almost bought a low mile vulcan but in the end I chose a used king and had room in the budget to upgrade. Yes I've said im going to install a new cam.
The goldwing and intruder are leaps and bounds above a Harley in my eyes.
It's like comparing an F-22 Raptor to a P-40 Warhawk.
@@migueljonz3901 Holy shit that is extremely accurate lol
Yeah those are pretty far apart for a comparison there.
The big cruiser market is dwindling because the people that used to buy these huge, expensive bikes are not buying them. The well-off baby boomers that purchased these bikes in the past are getting too old to ride. Younger riders, by and large, like Japanese sport bikes, ADVs, nakeds, etc. They aren't buying these huge, expensive machines.
All this is reflected in H-Ds stock price. They marketed fully towards their old demographic and didn't invest in marketing towards younger riders. They're trying to play catch-up now with bikes like the Livewire, which also miss the mark - too expensive.
As a younger rider, I can buy a decent SV650 for around $5000 pretty easily. With that, I get a very reliable motorcycle that will last me years that can ride comfortably on both streets and the highway. Why invest in a huge highway machine that costs as much as my car? If I want a cruiser, Honda now makes the Rebel 1100. Honda reliability at only $10,000.
My first bike was a Honda VTX 1300R and was a great bike. Hated that they stopped making them and never really liked the look of the
sabre, interstate or fury. I now ride a 2015 Ultra Limited and love it.
Four years ago, I bought a 2004 Shadow Sabre VT1100 for $1,800. I like 'em cheap.
The VTX is an awesome bike, l wish they would of kept the cruiser style around!
Well buddy doing some research: best rod to stroke ratio is 1.80 . 96” is 1.75. 88” is 1.90 . Guess that’s why hd stuck with 4.3/8 stroke and went bigger bores . 🤔 the softail slim is gone for 22’ . Thanks for the new lineup say. ✊🏻👍👌
really enjoy your videos, love the info I get from you, you go brother!!!
A Moonshine HD upgraded Electra glide..😍 If I had the money..🙄
The build them solid and right, they put out some damn good power too!
@@GixxerFoo I just learned the other day up to 170bhp
Harley has a lot of name recognition. Indian is kind of new and they are made by the same company that owned Victory.
On the island where I live we have a Harley and an Indian dealership just a mile apart, and we're only 9 by 5 miles.
Damn now that is impressive!
At some point my StreetGlide may become too heavy for me to handle. It's great for medium to long, day rides, and overnight touring. But, I'm sure eventually my riding will be limited to shorter distances. I'm thinking I'll downsize to a V-Rod or Breakout.
I recently found out about the Yamaha Warrior, and Raider models. They were ahead of the game at that point but, were discontinued by Yamaha in 2008.
Yamaha gave up on the Raider and Warrior too soon, they were really way ahead of their time.
I ended up a goldwing as it has forward and reverse to help with moving the bike.
Im i also have my m109r and vtx1800 i love.
65 here....still on my '08 street glide.....being too heavy to handle hasn't even entered my mind at this point....don't think i could ride another bike without missin my harley
The new softails are a fair bit lighter than the touring chassis. The heritage is the best handling of all the current softail models in my opinion. The other one I considered is the sport glide. It has some good touring features and also has quick detach bags for the stripped down look.
@@GixxerFoo I agree, especially the Raider, that was a nice running, sounding, handling this.
No replacement.
Nothing else comes close.
Never get the same feeling.
None of the others look half as good.
Harley Davidson will ALWAYS BE KING of the cruisers. It's just FACT.
First! I would pop for the extra $ for the Harley. The customization is key. I would buy a used Harley before buying a metric bike because I just view metrics as disposable because of the reasons you mentioned.
Totally agree! I couldn't spend 27K on that Yamaha and then be left high and dry on parts and support when they discontinue the bike.
I would, I would…
DO YOU have a Harley ? DID YOU spend the extra $ ?
@@mattseaman5397 I've ridden all my life. When I was younger, I've owned metric dirt bikes and cruisers into my late 20's. I bought my first new Harley in 2002 and haven't looked back at the metrics. I've owned 5 Harleys since. Metrics had their place when I couldn't afford a Harley. In my estimation a metric sold for maybe 55-60% of what a Harley cost at the time. If they were closer in price like they are now, I would have sprung for the Harley. To answer your question. Yes I have.
@@mattseaman5397 i did
Coming from a Harley-Davidson upbringing, and being the age I am (old) I would seriously consider a Honda trike. I like the body style on them and they're very nice riding as far as trikes go. Great video thanks for the upload
Getting a Gold Wing converted to a trike is a great ride in all honesty. There's some awesome conversion kits out there.
@@GixxerFoo You can get a Gold Wing converted to a quad too, if you have the cash.
Harley all the way for me. I appreciate competition and the tech developments, but trad Harleys are unique in their character as well as old world basics. I utterly live the rumbble and the shakey rock & roll vibes of the engine. Hearing and feeling the Revs are good markers for knowing how the engine is running, sense of red line and even when to change gears up, let alone the raw sound so other road users know you are around.
Not putting other makes down, they are what they are, but would have been nice to also include the Moto Guzzi California.
Dude I have been watching your video’s for over a year, you should be a spokesperson for HD, you are bright know you shit about Harley Davidson motorcycle cycles . I own a GSXR 750 and have my eye on a new sportster.
I used to ride a GSX-1000, 2003 model. I miss that bike, I wish I had never sold it and still had it today with my Harley's.
Stick with a used victory for me, I like them better than any of the new options currently available
I agree
Victory is a good bike, they never should have dumped them for the Indian line, they should have kept both, but if you look at the Indians they sure resemble the Victory, at least to me they do
@@dougturngren5027 well considering it's the same company, and the big thing was it was easier to sell a bike with an Indian emblem then a victory emblem yeah they are pretty similar in a lot of ways, I just don't like them as much, particularly the thunderstroke engine architecture versus the freedom engine architecture, but I also like this style/looks of the victories better
Nice ! Harley needs to build an engine modeled after the Sportster S motor only bigger for baggers & they could rule the touring wars ! With 135 HP in the Sportster S how about a1500 for baggers with 180 HP ! They could win no matter what it cost anyway that's my take on it !
I think we'll see that soon. They have to answer for the challenger and offer something with decent power from the showroom.
Indian drew first blood with the Challenger, I think were going to see something like that before too long in the touring line from Harley.
I do agree with you I like a bike that I can get parts 20 years down the road than a bike I have to throw away after 10 years
A new motorcycle is a big investment, I like the security of knowing I've got some aftermarket support other than the OEM.
@@GixxerFoo that's true to I had both Harley and a Kawasaki both are great but a Harley just has parts years after the bikes are out of the dealership
2:15 I want that for my ringtone!
That is one awesome sound!
Triumph Rocket. Makes a Harley look like a mini-bike
That's basically a car motor in a motorcycle, that Rocket 3 is a tank!
@@GixxerFoo I have an older Rocket...the new ones are almost 100 lbs lighter stock, with 200 more ccs displacement. Because of the newer casting technology, the new engines are physically smaller but with a larger displacement. My old Rocket with few mods...puts out 155 HP and about 150 ft-lbs of Torque. It weighs in at about 750lbs. The rear tire is a 240...and I can and have done rolling burnouts....these bikes will scoot. They aren't as quick as a Diavel or a V-max
That's why they need so many Harley-Davidson shops and s*** is always breaking down
Victory didn't fold, they rebranded as Indian. Victory was Polaris's attempt at competing with Harley but didn't work for them. So when they had the opportunity to buy the Indian brand they did so and closed the Victory line.
Kinda but not really... Polaris didn't start Victory to compete w HD but rather to expand their own market. They never intended to beat HD at their game. In 2004 as I was buying a new Polaris snowmobile (and admiring a Victory sitting on the floor), the dealer said that there had been conversation within the higher ups about acquiring Indian but chose to go a different route. I think the wait, for whatever reason, was good for the Indian brand. Just look at Indian now (watches HD look over their shoulder and sweat profusely).
Indian shares nothing with the Victory line, other than having two wheels. In essence, the Victory was discontinued (folded) not rebranded.
Love the way you put a shovel up for sound lol. And the badge on Indian with 1901. That’s a laugh. At least Harley had some ownership during the AMF years not disappeared from about 1965 with two strokes and drop victory to become Indian. But. What’s counting. Yeh triumph from 1902. lol
That's the part about Indian that really bothers me, Polaris talks as though Indian never disappeared altogether. Polaris did an excellent revival of the brand and they everything to be proud of which they should own that they revived the brand.
I came from the metric crowd to HD a few years ago, upon discovering that most metric bikes are what you get, and in some cases upgrades are literally DIY as the aftermarket doesn't support some manufacturers in terms of bolt ons. But that's not to take away from the quality of the metric cruisers in their stock form.
However, in terms of baggers, I'd stick with my HD, as they do have the classic lines and styling that many people think of, when they think motorcycle. I have to give credit to Honda though, at they stayed their own course with the Goldwing; even though it today looks like a spaceship.
Harley-Davidson has really stood the test of time and found a balance in a modern era. The bikes still have personality were like the Goldwing is just too futuristic looking to me.
Metrics are very solid motorcycles, I just couldn't spend that much money for one knowing it's a one shot deal. If something went broke outside of the warranty fixing those bikes can dang near cost more than they are worth.
@@GixxerFoo yeah I am not a fan of the new design or the Goldwing
@@GixxerFoo Exactly. I've seen the new metric touring offerings and they straight look like space ships. I just can't bring myself to like them.
I had this conversation with a buddy of mine who's looking in the used market currently (and have linked him to a few of your videos to answer questions) who was considering a Triumph Thunderbird, of which I know nothing of. I'm urging him towards a Harley, not because it's an American bike (not a whole lot of American left in these newer Harleys) but because Harley has built and continues to build their bikes with the aftermarket in mind, and that their owners want/will want to customize to personal taste. Can't do that with most metric offerings these days. What you get out of the box is it.
Great video! I learn so much about harleys from your channel
Thank you, glad to hear it!
Twice I’ve tried going away from a Harley and both times I went right back to it.
Lol I've looked around myself too and keep coming back to Harley-Davidson.
Indian from 1901 is like saying trust me I’m from the government and I’m here to help you. Today’s “Indian” motorcycles are Polaris - own it!
It really bothers me how Polaris talks about the brand like it never went aways.
Hate to tell you, but Honda dropped the Shadow line in '18. Damn shame, too, because the Shadow was THE go-to metric cruiser. The new Rebel doesn't even come close... it's a cruiser-shaped naked bike with no actual cruiser soul. Mind you, neither ever really WERE in the "heavy" cruiser market, with the Shadow and Rebel model options topping out at 1200 cc and 1100 cc respectively.
They are still the Shadow 750's, they have the Phantom and the Aero but they did stop making the larger CC models.
im a harley dude but every metric bike is better on paper then any harley any day, more power, more torque, less to no shaking, incredible smooth power delivery and dont get me started on reliability.
if you want the best for long travel just get a goldwing. it always was like that since the goldwing existed. but it's just not a harley.. they are shitty, the company is shitty too but the look of the bikes, aftermarket, community and how easy they are to work with is what makes harleys awesome. i have no idea why ppl try to talk around that fact also you just ignored the BMW R18 or ducati diavel and many big cruiser alternatives to harley.
For the money, my Voyager can't be beat . I don't need 100hp, and with 2 up , 42mpg . Very reliable.
The Voyager is a lot of motorcycle for the money, it's the best deal out there on the market and it's well under 20K. Very underrated motorcycle in my opinion.
Good morning. I had a Kawisaki Voyager. The power kept cutting out during turns and it almost caused an accident. I traded it in for my current Harley.
Was that an older Voyager the 1200, 1300 or the newer Vtwin 1700?
It will be interesting to see how Indian fairs over the next few years. The big advantage Harley has is the amount of dealers.The closets Indian dealer to me that does not suck is 1 hour a half away. My other big issue I have with Indian is OEM accessories. Indians Sissy bar for the Touring bikes is 450 where as hits 200 for a harley. People always bitch how expensive Harley stuff is, apparently have know idea how much more Indian Chargers for there own accessories
ive been riding for 4 decades and have had almost everything,for me next is going to be a big twin HD ,maybe road king I can get parts and there are independent shops with oodles of experience ..you just wont get that with metric bikes and the world is changing and need to get some more miles in before I age out and or I have no other option but some battery on wheels,thanks for the vid very well done.
For my first 15 years of riding I was on nothing but Japanese bikes. Now since 2006 I've been on nothing but Harley's. I don't really have anything against any brand of motorcycle. If I was looking for a bike and the right motorcycle came along I really wouldn't care what name was on the tank.
I like all bikes, just prefer a Harley in a cruiser. I've road just about everything out there and there's just something about the Harley for me.
In the cruiser section it's gotta be Harley Davidson! I do like sport bikes and sport nakeds from metric though.
Sadly, neither Harley or Indian make a v twin engine with that feel or sound anymore, so unless it's for the look, I would go with something cheaper. I like the Yamaha engine, but the bike just looks weird. like too modernish. The Road Star engine has proven itself reliable. I don't know if it still sounds of feels like it used to. I would go for the Kawasaki new, though I won't be buying any new bikes that expensive anymore. One HUGE issue I have with all of them is the belt drive. Now Harley has had belt drive for a really long time, but that doesn't mean I like it. When I bought my very first Harley, a used Sportster 1200, I set about adjusting the belt. I got the Harley tension gauge and the Motion Pro wheel alignment tool. Then spent almost 3 days getting it right. What a nightmare. Then I bought a 1989 Harley FXRS Low Rider, and decided to replace the belt on that. I took it to a local independent Harley shop to get it done. I asked them how to adjust the belt tension and keep the wheel aligned at the same time. They told me they use TWO people for the procedure, and that it is almost impossible for one person to do by themselves. I wish the Japanese bikes hadn't abandoned the shaft drive. I used to have a Vulcan 1600 Classic with shaft drive. It was wonderful. Never any adjustment or maintenance, and it was completely sealed. Besides the Sportster for local riding, I also have a Kawasaki Vulcan 750. Both shaft drive and hydraulic valves. I put 119K miles on it so far. Much smaller engine, but it holds its own with the Sportster 1200.
My first "cruiser" was a new 1980 Suzuki GS450L. My next cruiser was a used Yamaha XS1100 Special. Neither were touring cruisers, but the four cylinder Yamaha certainly had the power for it. You COULD put a Windjammer fairing, hard bags and a trunk on it if you wanted to. But back in 1980 Honda came up with the Goldwing Interstate, and pretty much took over the market.
I would never be concerned about more power on a big touring bike. After all, you are just going to be cruising down the highway at a steady speed. You are not going to be racing it. Sadly, most manufacturers have decided that 10 years is the average lifespan of their bikes, and no longer support them beyond that. While Japanese bikes tend to be somewhat boring (but then so do Harleys and Indians these days) they don't really need to be modified, and can last a very long time before parts start wearing out. And yes, I actually am supporting the Japanese bikes over the new Harleys here. I love older Harleys, and always will. But the new ones don't have the sound and feel of the old ones, so why pay the big money for them? If the Kawasaki had shaft drive, I'd clean out my savings account and buy one. I might even buy a Goldwing if they made a base model with the fairing, bags and trunk, but without all the electronic garbage, including a stereo. But really, ALL motorcycles have become WAY too complicated too actually be reliable anymore. All those electronics are going to fail on a regular basis. And they do nothing to help the bike carry you down the road.
HA! Up until a couple of years ago, I was into power cruiser bikes. V-Max, V-Rod(I know, but most purists do not consider this bike a true H-D), Magna, Madera, Rocket 3, M109s, etc.... Anything less than that was a Harley Imitation. People would rarely cross the fence. People who were truly into performance would not even consider a Harley or an Indian. It was not until recent years that I would consider Harley or an Indian as a performance bike out of the box. Because of this, when I started doing more touring, I went the Sport Touring bike route. Basically a crouch rocket with a touring kit on it. I still have my 2008 Concours 14 till this day. The one I had previously was the VFR800. I was so thrilled that Harley came out with the M8, I immediately ran out and got a 2018 Fatbob. That bike lives up to being a power cruiser although it does not have a lot of top end. But WHEELIES and Burnouts galore.
As far as the "after market" thing, who cares about that but Harley people? Only a Harley person will get a $30000 bike, then dump another $10000 into it to get 15% more HP and make a lot of noise. Why do that when you can get a used Sport (Touring) bike that can put out twice the HP and speed for $5000ish stock in good condition. That is exactly what I did. I have the Concours 14 and the CBR954RR for when I feel like a nut. Have the Roadglide cause I like the added comfort. Best thing is my Roadglide is mostly stock!!! No risks of trailer rides due to improper engine modifications......LOL In the end there are a few of us weirdos that just like to get on our bikes and ride......
Agreed, much better stuff out there for performance than either of the two. I wanted one bike to do it all and ended up with a Challenger limited. Plenty fast off the floor for me these days and got everything I could ask for for long hauls. But yeah, I'll ride anything. You could put a mini bike with a lawnmower engine in front of me and I'd have a blast on it.
Not sure why you said the vaquero was modelled after the street glide. It tried to copy the roads glide with the fixed fairing.
been on big kawaies since the 80's
not just lower cost of bike but much more dendable and cheaper to maintain.. rode harleys on 70's and loved them,BUT back then they. were pretty much only big bikes out there.. no goldwings, cavalcades, voyagers, only harley new and iindians for old bikes but parts hard to come by. Harley is a fine machine but I am spoiled to my shaft drive, water cooled dependable kawaie.
I think it's one of those to each their own likes or choice.No offense to anyone.But for the money,I just stay with my Harleys.Why well honestly there's just to many reasons why to list here.Iv owned several other brands thru the years.But having my 1997 Ultra Classic my 1998 Fat Boy and my 2005 Soft Tail Deuse I find that's there's plenty of aftermarket parts for even the older Harleys verses other brands.For me personally I'drather own my Harleys simply because I know I can get parts for them a lot easier than the other brands out there.But like IV always say to each their own.Ride what makes you happy.After all isn't that what's riding all about.Just riding what you like in the wind and enjoying the freedom that goes with riding on 2 wheels.
It's really funny reading this forum because you go to others they are running Harleys and Indians in the ground. Here so many say their preference would be harley or Indian over metric. I've rode a lot of different brands through the years and preferred Harley and Indian over others. My preference , but then I didn't beat my bikes so I've seen their true colors and the better side of the dealerships.
I worked for a dealer that sold metrics and they too will fail, lol I've seen some ragged out bikes that were beat to crap. Not all dealers are bad but it just takes one bad experience at a dealer and someone will hate a brand forever.
Comfort is where it’s at, especially for us older riders who have had injuries or arthritis. I can’t ride with my knees bent and my feet under my ass. Riding my big Harley is like tiding my recliner down the road.
It's really nice to get stretched out going down the road, especially when you're on a long haul!
I haven't seen any metric cruisers where you ride in that position, you are thinking about crotch rockets, not metric cruisers. All the metric manufacturers have copied almost everything that Harley has done, seating positions are almost identical. I own a Heritage Softail and a Yamaha Roadstar, and both are equally as comfortable and I actually can stretch out further on the Roadstar. The only advantage now with Harley is the aftermarket support compared to the metric aftermarket. I am 65 and have rhuemetoid arthritis since I was in my 30's and have to take injections every two weeks, and I can ride any metric or Harley cruiser comfortably.
I would take the Gold Wing. I've been riding them for over 30 years. Oh, and I like my Fury too.
My first choice would be the Harley, and my second choice would be , well the Harley, but my third choice would be...........the Harley 🤗
I am the same way, l prefer Harley,. But in all honesty if it wasn't a Harley l would have the Indian.
Never in my 60 years have I consider buying a new bike. Just plain po. So my only option has been to buy hand-me-downs that maybe need some tires. Love it when some nice mods have done. Bless the hearts of all the new bike buyers! Somebody gotta do it!
My wife would chew my ass just for the cost of the sales tax alone and make me sleep out in the garage. It’s cold out there!
The amount people paid in tax on a new bike is what i paid for my Harley lol.
The Big 4 Japanese makers totally change their bikes a lot more often (5yrs?) and parts can get scarce and/or expensive. And their trade in value value sucks even after a few years. Touring rig owners in general , and Harley owners in particular traditionally kept their bikes a lot longer. Most Harley chassis/platforms run for a long time. I can still get OEM factory or new (better) aftermarket parts for my 1997 ex-Police Roadking.
Long term parts support is a huge plus for a Harley-Davidson!
The nostalgia market will eventually die all together.
It's very possible, Harley-Davidson is slowly transitioning to some new designs. I guess we will see what they have at the end of January.
2003 vulcan 1600 classic 42 k miles, good shape I paid very little. Only way for me to ride. The HD Ultra in red if I ever get rich.
very interesting , here in the uk we do not get the yam or the big vulcan only the 650 twin . we do get the goldwing and the new bmw 1800 cruiser , with bm you need to be close to a dealer ;; ,,.. also i expect the rest of europe will be the same as the uk ,, no big honda twin either ..
Damn that's rough, those roads their would be perfect for a low revving big twin. That 650 Kawi is a great bike though, heavy crank but still needs to rev.
After Harley failed me multiple times, I got a vaquero. I’ve never heard anyone say the vaquero is modeled after a Harley, It’s one of the reasons I went to it. It Looks nothing like a Harley, the fixed fairing is by far better than a road glide and even my challenger with the windshield that goes up and down, it is liquid cooled as well. Ivan performance has a tune for the bike that makes the bike a monster. My buddy stage 2 street glide cried in my rear view every time we rode.
Kawasaki builds a solid bike, it's a shame they cut the Vulcan line down as much as they have. That 900 is a really solid bike as well, it's very capable even at 900cc.
@@GixxerFoo oh yes, I have a friend that’s been across Canada and us on the 900. It’s actually a decent size bike as well
My 20 year old Harley is nowhere near being done, every part Is still available, usually right off the shelf, in the heart of that Indian is a victory, use history to predict the future. Metrics were never a serious option for me. Although I was seriously impressed by a Honda Civic I had, everything wore out at the same time, magnificent engineering of planed obsolescence.
When the Civic was first introduced in the US they made it too reliable, parts and service departments sat idle lol.
@@GixxerFoo well they fixed that, although, CV joints, motor, trans, struts, even the stiching on the seats, I traded it in on a new Ford, so Honda service, didn't get a job.
i don't mind to pay the premium for the Yamaha. my problem is that it loses 50% of its value when you ride it off the lot of the dealer. The resale value is just crap. another thing is that the Yamaha has a longer wheel base which makes it not that favorable for lean angle and overall turn capability. It is as you said, we are down to 2 serious choice for the big v-Twin segment.
That's my biggest issue with metric bikes too, the value loss. They are great bikes in every respect but they plummet in value.
Metrics are great but they look cheap with all of their plastic parts.
What the people have to come to realize is this, > a "motorcycle" is secondary choice of transportation, at best, it's just a "LUXURY". Back in the mid/late 70's it was another "FORM" of transportation. Back then , the autos didn't get the kind of gas mileage that a motorcycle would get (and actually, they still don't) but: the difference was so great that people chose a motorcycle for a 2nd mode of transportation, as opposed to just a luxury mode of transportation. Also the prices for motorcycles back then....... need I say more? Nowadays , autos , and even motorcycles excessively expensive, so people if they need a mode of transportation they'll of course choose an auto instead of a M/C.
Going to disagree, I ride full time now and I know a few other guys who do as well.
Our bike prices can be relative to your area or year of car you're at, but insurance is blatantly cheaper. Both my bikes for full coverage where I live is $90 where as my bronco for basic bare minimum was $190.
Then you have fuel prices, most if hs have a truck or suv and those will never compare to our bikes, but even so my last car couldn't compete either and it had a ecoboost.
Point is if you're looking to save so you can get ahead or whatever and you live in an area where you can ride year round then yeah it can and should be a main form of transportation
As much as they charge for bikes these days its just ridiculous how limited the color options are. Same thing with cars these days.
I wasn't impressed with them jacking the prices and cutting the colors either, now they want over 10K or a new Iron 883 with 3 color options for example.
Thanks for posting to each his own personally pretty much of a long distance Rider dealer network is very important and Harley-Davidson has the best