Really enjoyed your review, many thanks for that due to I have been chasing info about Ebike converting to a standard bike and as yours no other review, wish you the best!
Not sure why I'm looking at reviews, I already have a Swytch bike, but great review anyhow, genuine and well done! I love my Swytch kit on my old mountain bike. Not sure if it's worth mentioning but the battery on the Swytch is configurable so it can use more or less of the battery's available power. I think as standard it uses 80% in each gear but can change from 60% to 100% . I guess in a hilly area 100% will be better but of course will deplete power quicker but propulsion will be greater. In regard to the PAS sensor that fell off, I did see someone else have this issue. When I fitted mine, I drilled two small holes on each side of the plastic parts and 'tied' it together with a small piece of wire so it won't come loose. Should not have to, of course, but until Swytch modify their components to reflect this issue,there no harm in precautions. I bought mine second hand btw, and I like it so much I bought a second one for my partners bike.
Have ARRC on my Moulton tandem conversion. Always had excellent service from ARRC. The Bosch fast charger is lighter than a spare battery and will fully charge the 4Ah battery in 35 minutes, just time to drink your coffee! On the tandem we get 12 miles from the 4Ah battery and 18 from the 6Ah on flattish rides.
One difference that you don't mention is that the Swytch kit uses just a cadence sensor whilst the ARCC has a torque sensor - I'm not sure whether or not is is in conjunction with a cadence sensor. What that means in practice is that the harder you push with the ARCC the more assistance you get. That would be particularly useful on hills. I have reservations about the need to pre-order the Swytch, pay for it and then wait up to 6 months. The bait of a 50% price reduction is just that. Bait.
After quite a long wait (almost a year because of “supply chain” and tech issues developing the new battery) I received the Swytch kit for my wife’s trike. It installed quickly and quite simply and, with the optional thumb throttle, it is great! My e-bike is a mid-drive Biktrix with a 500 W motor (driving the rear wheel). The advantage of the front wheel hub drive for the wife is that if she over powers the wheel and it spins out, there is no danger of falling over which can easily happen on my mid-drive. Where I live (Saskatchewan, Canada) ice and snow on our roadways is a common occurrence so these conditions need to be part of any installation.
The Arcc bike is a marvel of British engineering. The bike was designed by Sir Alex Moulton. Good history on him via Wikipedia's db. ARCC adds to the engineering excellence
Thanks for your video review, most helpful. I was thinking of a Swytch for uphill ride home after a night of active physical work as a milkman, I now think I will give it a miss and look at other avenues, have been considering powered scooters as well, have you reviewed any of them ?
Glad it was helpful. Whether its worth it for the hill depends on how steep ... that was an especially steep hill I was riding them on! I have reviewed one powered scooter. It's useless on hills!
I have two ARCC converted/powered Moultons and have done since 2017, they are the 'Bees Ness' or or other below waist parts etc? It's the way they deliver the power available that amazes/gets me and/plus the 'over the counter' Bosch 36V DC power tool battery packs, has to be a winner over long term ownership, rather than a specifically manufactured battery pack? Their (ARCC's) engineering is seemingly less to combining it with the brilliant and fantastic Moulton TSR Spaceframe bike it's a definite winner! Brompton factory E bike' riders try my ARCC TSR and say how it seems to work so seamlessly, which is how I've experienced the ARCC conversion from the start!
@@firstnamelastname2669 Yes, it still retains it's full separability via a waterproofed connection to the bottom bracket torque sensor, the cable is clipped to the frame, probably takes and extra 10 - 15 seconds to connect/disconnect.
The kits that I received in mid-January, the battery pack is different from the one you have. Smaller. Live in Northern Michigan & have to wait to at least May to start riding. Cold & snowy here. Gives me time to get the kits installed. The one kit has caused me some trouble, have had to modify the peddle sensor center ring to fit over the nut. One kit, the charger end will not fit the battery. Have sent pictures to Swytch to see if they are going to send me the correct charger unit.
Don't go with Swytch. They cannot deliver their product. My kit was supposed to arrive in March 2023. When it didn't arrive by April, I opened my first support ticket. Swytch told me the order was delayed due to the warehouse taking inventory for 2 weeks. The order tracking page was updated to show a mid-April expected delivery. 2+ weeks later and no update - so I opened my second support ticket. This time I was told that the warehouse was backed up and could not ship more that 180 units per business day and that they sold 5000 units. The tracking page was updated to show an early May expected delivery. Another 3 weeks went by with no updates so I opened my third support ticket and was told to be patient that the delivery was further delayed. I looked today and the expected delivery is now mid-June. After waiting 9 months to just place an order, I am now waiting another 9 months after giving them my money - and delivery is delayed over and over.
Thanks. I think there are bigger factors to consider than your size/weight. ie do you have and existing bike to convert? What's the budget? Do you live in Holland (or the Scottish Highlands)? What are you using it for? And so on.
Nice informative review. Unfortunately it's too expensive for me to buy either one. Next time you demonstrate the wobbling tendencies of a bike, just remove your hands slightly from the handle bars, say 3 inches, so if it goes out of control you can stop yourself from falling by quickly placing your hands back on the handle bars.
Yeah, I did try that a couple of times, but it didn’t really show the problem well on film, so I tried to go for 4 inches, then five, then crash, bang, wallop!
First time I’ve seen you Arlo and I’ll be sticking to old fashioned human pedal power for a while yet but I enjoyed the review. You seem to trigger the sensitive/precious …..a good quality in my book😊
Next time your testing small wheel bikes....a helmet maybe? I cancelled the Switch conversion a while back after a few dodgy reviews. Went bofang diy mid 750w motor instead things a beast. All legal honest 🤫
Thanks for the review. Am I right that I picked up that the ARCC is only available on a very small number (three?) of bikes? I'm considering a bike conversion for my Marin gravel bike - my main quandary is front or mid hub conversions. Any thoughts?
I believe ARCC will do other bikes, but you need to contact them. Think you mean front or rear hub conversions? (not aware of any mid drive conversion kits). I think the general rule is that mid-drives are best, rear hub next, and front last. But unless you're pushing things a bit, on a 250w bike, I find the difference marginal.
@@arlo.guthrie - thanks, I meant mid-drive (not hub). Where I live the hills are massive around me unless I want cycle in a small area so I need to ensure as much power (as is legally allowed) and a spare wouldn't go amiss. I'll contact ARCC. Thanks again!
thank you for a nice review! if I could give one suggestion, it would be *_very_* useful to have a section for _charging_ these solutions (or in the future anything that includes/primarily operates from a battery) including, but of course not limited to, device side charge plug type, charger voltage and current output, if charger is switching type (worldwide usage), if charger is branded by company or using different listed manufacturer, battery voltage and either amp/hour or watt/hour (I know you mentioned this part but including for the sake of completeness), if there are other chargers (ie fast charger) available for sale, and of course how long charging took you going from dead, or very nearly dead, to 100%. For myself this information can make or break my choice, very possible I'm alone in this thinking though.. lol I realize this reads like a lot of work but besides the charging time I think it would only take a couple minutes to get the information with devices in hand and I'd guess
I don't think it's the small wheels, per se. More to do with the small frame and odd steering geometry of bikes like that. Never had a problem with any BMX style bike but every folding bike with those extended handlebars I've ever tried has been squirelly as hell. I think it's just a trade-off to allow for taller riders.
Thanks. As to Swytch's new kit, maybe, but they'd probably have to send me one to review as I've got enough ebikes at the moment!! And I've got a few other things in the pipeline at the moment.
Looking at the Arcc and Swytch as I must admit I did put myself down last year for a coversion kit but got tired of waiting, I wanted it for a 700c road cycle I had but as I was looking you could buy a factory made ebike for about £100 more so cancelled my order and brought a factory made one. I did still buy a convertion kit Yose Power with battery for £398 a £100 cheaper then the swytch and arrived within 3 days not 6 molnths like the Swytch would off if I wanted one earlier then it would be nearer a £1,000 not £500, so are front wheel convertion kts worth it? In my opinion no because their pricing are not in line with factory made ebike, betime you converted your own it can cost more then buying a ready made ebike. The Yose power kit is more in line but still at £400 with battery is still to expenxive as a ready made Hybrid both from Halfords and Evans are ready made for £500 Evans cycles, £550 Halfords. Now mid drive convertions are worth it because mid drives cheapest seen new factory made Argos £1,200, Evans cycles £1,700 and Halfords £1,800 as you can get convertion kit with battery that is a Bafang motor for £750. Not only that these cycles I have mentioned my size 20 to 21 inch frame are not in stock and been told there is a 6 month to 1 year waiting list, if you want a 17inch frame then they are available. To get one suitable blke now cheapest 21 inch with Bostch mid motor was Evans at £2,700, there is cheaper mid drive cnvertion kit then the Bafang a Tongshang for about £650 with battery but I opted for the Bafang, I took my factory front hub cycle and converted it into a mid drive, changed most of the parts metal mudguards to high quality plastic, a better derailur, in fact changed 65% of the original cycle the only originality to the cycle is frame, battery and forks everything else different so without having to buy a battery the kit cost just under £400, after selling the original electrics got a mid motor cycle for under a £1,000 and because the convertion was used on bike that was originally an eBike a place to hide all the cables. Converitng your own cycle is fun but personally feel especially the hub convertion kits need to come down in price because there are masny factory built ones the same or even cheaper then these kits, i have built two eBikes up with convertion kits a hub one where drilling in the frame and putting rivet nuts in to hold the battery, soldering better connections on battery connections there can be a lot of work involved grinding as even so they look easy on line to build no two cycles are the same and many times made to look easy to do a video, my spindle for the crank I had to use a breaker bar to loosen it but I work on my car and got some heavy duty tools as without them and just using cycle tools would of been impossible, I would say converting your own mid drive is well worth it as their is a waiting list for decent priced once and convertion kits are cheap compared to the fatory made mid drive cycles as you can build your own even if you brought a brand new cycle for under a £1,000 but you did that with a hub motor your talking £650 to a £1,000 and you can get a factory made one for under £600 not worth doing a hub motor convertion as not saving nothing and a lot of work invloved.
not really sure how a conversion kit only converts ARCC bikes - Swytch may not be the answer either, but i could convert my Electra Cruiser7 with Swytch for mere arm and a leg if i wanted to.
The Swytch pedal sensor looks like a problem, I have been trying to figure out exactly how it is held in place (or not, as the case may be...). Funny review!
Thank you! The sensor is strapped to the frame with adhesive/ pull ties. The other part of the sensor comes in two parts, one of which is attached to the arm of the pedal, and the other then circlipped to it.
I've got a Swytch. Adding the pedal sensor is a doddle. The reason for the confusion is you don't need ALL the bits supplied which is because they want this kit to be universal - it depends on your bike. I didn't need the arm.
Thank you. I wonder if my film really shows how steep that hill is! Without assistance, I would have had to get off and walk. Thankfully there aren't that many hills that are as bad as that round here.
Who puts a basket on a bike? I waited 5 months for my swytch......and they forgot 3 main parts. What a joke how do you forget the battery holder the magnetic sprocket and the charging cord?
Hi Arlo, I’m a bit confused. I’ve watched a few videos of the Swytch bike on UA-cam now and no one seems to be struggling up hill as much as you are in this video (no offence) You don’t seem that unfit to me, so can I ask what power setting did you have it on? The lady in this video seems to fly up hill only on the second power setting and on a much steeper hill ( I’ve been on that hill as I live near it) ua-cam.com/video/NDV1MlxYdlc/v-deo.html Would love to know your opinion on this?
Laughed put loud. Well either I am more unfit than I look, or the hill I was on was much steeper. I think it's the latter. Looks to me like that film you linked to was made in Bristol, and I think I recognise the road. Anyway, I think I am right in saying he isn't on an ebike and he's motoring along quite quickly behind her, which also suggests that hill isn't anything like as steep as the one I was on.
@@arlo.guthrie Thanks Arlo, that is a fair enough response! I’ve ordered a Swytch regardless as I think it will be great for my Bristol commute. Enjoyed watching your videos, funny stuff.
@@arlo.guthrie Still, what was your power setting? There's 5 levels and one suspects you only had it on one (lowest), perhaps for comedic effect or not to show up the Arcc or ???
Yes, but you didn't say how many miles you got out of a full charge! I've got a swych convert and can only get 12miles out of a full charge! When swych quite 32 miles, which I feel is pretty poor to put it mildly!
Range is so difficult, because it depends hugely on the weight of the passenger, whether you are going uphill, and to a lesser degree, what the ambient temperature is. Oh yes, and what battery you have. Still, a few of us did a roughly 26 mile ride yesterday, up a particularly long and steep hill (probably 2/3 miles). One was on a Swytch with the biggest battery. I guess he's about 90kg and he just about made it back. Without the hill, he would have gone further. You don't look like you're small in the photo, but unless you're going up a one in one hill on a cold day, 12 miles sounds bad and I'd take that up with Swytch. Perhaps you have a duff battery.
@@arlo.guthrie I did, they sent me a new battery pack Eventuality, which is no better ! I find it very strange that if I don't use the bike for a week say, that it looses charge! This shouldn't happen with lithium batteries, So the only conclusion I can make is, they are not using lithium batteries but a cheaper inferior battery ! and when I say 12 miles, that's hi bred with a 27" wheel cheers Colin
You cannot compare an independent delivery from any company to Amazon… people are so used to Amazon’s fast delivery that they forget the delivery hubs and unreal logistic power… not a fair comparison
Hospital admissions -- har, har, har... BTW, unless you gear down, the Swytch won't contribute significant torque to the front wheel. The Hall effect sensor has to securely fastened. No doubt, it's THE weak link. The biggest problem for every e-bike: theft. Both of these machines do the best job of thwarting thieves -- as the batteries walk off with the owner.
Couldn't agree more re: theft. 6 of us were in Bristol for lunch, and two had their locked e-bikes stolen, in broad daylight, in a busy street with CCTV cameras. This despite the fact that at least one had battery removed.
@@arlo.guthrie Bikes -- all of them -- need VIN numbers -- same as automobiles. As it stands, in most jurisdictions, there is no official unique identifier. Hence, ownership or theft can't be established in court.
I feel bad for you ebike riders in the UK. My Ariel Rider X-Class can go up a steep hill at about 25mph without pedaling. But of course I pedal, sometimes. LOL
That's the law in the UK. A bike that operates with a motor without pedalling would be a powered vehicle so would need a driving licence and insurance and be subject to construction regulations. In the UK, all we can have is (i) pedal assist and (ii) 250 W. I personally think it's fine to have the law as it is. I have a Gtech ebike and it's great for getting around. Before I retired I used to do the 11-mile journey to work in well under an hour, recharge the battery in the works office and then go home. It was cycling ... but a bit easier on my 65-year-old legs.
Really don't see the point of these kits, really bad value for what you get compared to say an EM3EV 250w kit. They're just marketing bottom barrel components to people who don't know any better.
DO NOT buy this kit. They have had my money for over 6 months and have yet to deliver the product. This is a startup company in the UK that has not figured out the supply chain. Yet, they hold your money. I ordered in June and here we sit in January with NOTHING.
I had done the same. Bought two(2) kits in June or July and receive them in mid January. At least I have until about May, before it will be warm enough to ride, to install the kits. The one kit I have been working on has caused me a few problems. The sensor on the peddle did not what to fit correctly. Really had to modify the center ring to fit over the nut.
To be fair, the kits should be compared on bikes with the same diameter wheels. Both the motors are likely 250w, so most of the difference will be the wheels and the gearing. As you performed your hill test, I would have been surprised if the Moulton hadn’t been easier. I ride a bafang g31x front hub motor which is slightly more powerful with a 52 v battery which is on my Bike Friday with 20” wheels. It climbs a similar hill with no issues easing up it and no skyrocketing heart rate (about 90bpm at about 11pm. I could go faster with full power but I don’t due to being careful with motor temperature.
Hmm, the big-wheeled bike has many more gears than the small one, and I assumed that at the lowest gear, it'd probably be lower geared than the small-wheeled bike. But maybe not. As you say, both 250W motors.
BROMPTON ELECTRIC. "THE WORLDS MOST UNRELIABLE BIKE".. Both of my Electric Brompton"s continuously keep braking down. The poor quality bearings & electronics keep failing. Brompton knows about this. But just keeps replacing them with same the parts. Buy yourself several Chines copies for the same price. Or better still a Honda CBR 125cc motorcycle for the same price. Feel less disappointed & save yourself a fortune.
@@arlo.guthrie Moulton are and always have been obsessed, and quite reasonably so, with comparing their performance with that of traditional bikes. Maybe your mistake here was that you missed a trick to do a four-way comparison, each power assist on each bike.
Both are over complicated : the rules/law says that conversions don't have to have the pedal (pedelec) nonsense , which seems to have been the product of an EU committee. The 2007 Sparticle conversion = hub motor + battery + power display control + THROTTLE , all sorted !
Pretty sure throttle only is still basically illegal on UK roads (i.e. only technically permissible at super low speed). So pedal assist is a must unless you only ride on private land.
I'm new to Ebikes and I'm not understanding what's up with these two brands. He's saying they cost $300-600 for the battery's, they only go 15mph And that's strange to me because most of the ones I've heard of go around 30mph, cost around $200 and these $200 ones have screens that display speed, battery% and several other important things. Did he say 15kmh?
You are thinking of Deliveroo ebikes who have their own top secret supply of Chinese bikes that go 70mph... Strangely the police in Manchester don't see to care two hoots...
Don't waste your time and money on a conversion kit, get down to Halfords and buy a Carrera Subway Ebike. Great components and warranty. Most bike shops won't do repairs on these conversion kit bikes
A friend of mine bought a swytch kit. He hated it. Definitely not worth the money. He had a faulty controller, he couldn’t believe the price of the replacement. So he binned the kit and sold the bike. He bought a ebike from Decathlon.
Why would a shop have a problem working on a converted bike? It’s only a different front wheel and in the unlikely event a shop did have a problem you could just swap the wheel. I got the Swytch because I live next to a mountain and wanted to use my existing bike to access more terrain. My existing bike is vastly superior to anything carerra make and wouldn’t want anything assembled by Halfords.
@@arlo.guthrie I was referencing the 'local cycle paths' you mentioned on the video (@ 4:48 & 5:43) because it sounds very much like you said psychopaths. It was a joke, as you would want to avoid any psychopaths ...
I bought the 2022 model with battery max and I waited 8 months for this, it is more compact, it is advertised for 35 km but I have never exceeded 20 km with it. I called support, but for them there is no problem, it's definitely my fault, my bike is perfectly adjusted, I weigh 80 KG and the route I take is flat. For the price a swytchbike is way too expensive
Hmm, well we definitely got more than 20 km in testing, the first leg of the trip in the film was 27km. That said, it does depend on what power setting you use, and I think my tester was a few kilos lighter.
I also think there is a problem with the battery but since swytchbike does not recognize it, we have to admit that a range of 20 km with the battery using the mode with the lowest assistance is possible. It would be a good kit if it was sold by a serious company that respects deadlines and assumes its responsibilities, In the meantime, every time I come across a cyclist who asks me for information on this kit, I dissuade them from buying one.
While it’s true that wearing a helmet has been shown to decrease the number of head injuries, it’s been shown to increase the number of neck injuries. Further, studies showed that drivers gave measurably more space to riders not wearing a helmet than they did to riders wearing a helmet. I would suggest that being a skilled rider who maintains awareness of one’s surroundings is significantly more important than wearing a helmet.
What I find hard to believe Arlo, is that you would review this crappy product, riding on pavement, with a helmet on your brain pan! Then crash while saying that one cannot take one's hands off the bars for even a second. Very odd. But then, your good brethren over there ride motorcycles at 200 mph down quaint ittle country lanes lines with walls and tree and doggies and babies being held by the mums and dads, so who knows. Somethin in the water maybe?
Hello is there a out for mobile charge ? does the engine recharge when coasting downhills,???? Arlo this is very important information if u living of grid ur review is shallow without this information,,,,,🫥😶🌫️👍. Ta
You're not the first to call me 'shallow', and I very much doubt you'll be the last! But since you ask, no out for mobile charge. No, the engine does not recharge going downhill. I wonder if any ebike does that, because unlike cars (which obviously weigh so much more), there probably isnt enough energy to make it worth all the extra expense etc to try and harvest it.
Really enjoyed your review, many thanks for that due to I have been chasing info about Ebike converting to a standard bike and as yours no other review, wish you the best!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Not sure why I'm looking at reviews, I already have a Swytch bike, but great review anyhow, genuine and well done! I love my Swytch kit on my old mountain bike. Not sure if it's worth mentioning but the battery on the Swytch is configurable so it can use more or less of the battery's available power. I think as standard it uses 80% in each gear but can change from 60% to 100% . I guess in a hilly area 100% will be better but of course will deplete power quicker but propulsion will be greater. In regard to the PAS sensor that fell off, I did see someone else have this issue. When I fitted mine, I drilled two small holes on each side of the plastic parts and 'tied' it together with a small piece of wire so it won't come loose. Should not have to, of course, but until Swytch modify their components to reflect this issue,there no harm in precautions. I bought mine second hand btw, and I like it so much I bought a second one for my partners bike.
Have ARRC on my Moulton tandem conversion. Always had excellent service from ARRC. The Bosch fast charger is lighter than a spare battery and will fully charge the 4Ah battery in 35 minutes, just time to drink your coffee! On the tandem we get 12 miles from the 4Ah battery and 18 from the 6Ah on flattish rides.
Thank you for your honesty and having trust in trust in the product
and working with manufacturers to resolve all.
I think you have missed your vocation. You are without doubt an entertainer. Just loved it!
Laughed out loud, thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.
One difference that you don't mention is that the Swytch kit uses just a cadence sensor whilst the ARCC has a torque sensor - I'm not sure whether or not is is in conjunction with a cadence sensor. What that means in practice is that the harder you push with the ARCC the more assistance you get. That would be particularly useful on hills.
I have reservations about the need to pre-order the Swytch, pay for it and then wait up to 6 months. The bait of a 50% price reduction is just that. Bait.
You are like a Monty Don of gadgets. What a great channel! I ride a Brompton amongst other bikes and wondering which to electrify.
Thank you, what a kind thing to write!
After quite a long wait (almost a year because of “supply chain” and tech issues developing the new battery) I received the Swytch kit for my wife’s trike. It installed quickly and quite simply and, with the optional thumb throttle, it is great! My e-bike is a mid-drive Biktrix with a 500 W motor (driving the rear wheel). The advantage of the front wheel hub drive for the wife is that if she over powers the wheel and it spins out, there is no danger of falling over which can easily happen on my mid-drive. Where I live (Saskatchewan, Canada) ice and snow on our roadways is a common occurrence so these conditions need to be part of any installation.
A refreshing British review, thoroughly enjoyed it. Not a word too many.
Thank you, and glad you enjoyed it. Normally I'm accused of waffling!
The Arcc bike is a marvel of British engineering. The bike was designed by Sir Alex Moulton. Good history on him via Wikipedia's db. ARCC adds to the engineering excellence
Great review sir! Surprised you don't have more subscribers. Keep up the good work!
So am I. LOL. But thank you.
That wasn't a stunt double at 7:31! Possible heart attack scenario at 8:15....That's a lot of risk for a bloody review video. Thx for this!
Great review. Looking forward to seeing new version of swytch kit.
Good review. Well edited. Thanks for this.
Thank you!
That was entertaining! Wasn't your head that worried me for your fall, it was your nuts 🤣
Thanks for your video review, most helpful. I was thinking of a Swytch for uphill ride home after a night of active physical work as a milkman, I now think I will give it a miss and look at other avenues, have been considering powered scooters as well, have you reviewed any of them ?
Glad it was helpful. Whether its worth it for the hill depends on how steep ... that was an especially steep hill I was riding them on! I have reviewed one powered scooter. It's useless on hills!
I have two ARCC converted/powered Moultons and have done since 2017, they are the 'Bees Ness' or or other below waist parts etc?
It's the way they deliver the power available that amazes/gets me and/plus the 'over the counter' Bosch 36V DC power tool battery packs, has to be a winner over long term ownership, rather than a specifically manufactured battery pack?
Their (ARCC's) engineering is seemingly less to combining it with the brilliant and fantastic Moulton TSR Spaceframe bike it's a definite winner!
Brompton factory E bike' riders try my ARCC TSR and say how it seems to work so seamlessly, which is how I've experienced the ARCC conversion from the start!
😊
Does the ARCC kit still allow the Moulton to split? (ie is there any wired connection from front to rear halves Thx)
@@firstnamelastname2669 Yes, it still retains it's full separability via a waterproofed connection to the bottom bracket torque sensor, the cable is clipped to the frame, probably takes and extra 10 - 15 seconds to connect/disconnect.
The kits that I received in mid-January, the battery pack is different from the one you have. Smaller. Live in Northern Michigan & have to wait to at least May to start riding. Cold & snowy here. Gives me time to get the kits installed. The one kit has caused me some trouble, have had to modify the peddle sensor center ring to fit over the nut. One kit, the charger end will not fit the battery. Have sent pictures to Swytch to see if they are going to send me the correct charger unit.
Don't go with Swytch. They cannot deliver their product. My kit was supposed to arrive in March 2023. When it didn't arrive by April, I opened my first support ticket. Swytch told me the order was delayed due to the warehouse taking inventory for 2 weeks. The order tracking page was updated to show a mid-April expected delivery. 2+ weeks later and no update - so I opened my second support ticket. This time I was told that the warehouse was backed up and could not ship more that 180 units per business day and that they sold 5000 units. The tracking page was updated to show an early May expected delivery. Another 3 weeks went by with no updates so I opened my third support ticket and was told to be patient that the delivery was further delayed. I looked today and the expected delivery is now mid-June. After waiting 9 months to just place an order, I am now waiting another 9 months after giving them my money - and delivery is delayed over and over.
Excellent review nicely delivered 👍
Excellent review. I love the comparison analysis and the pros and cons.
I’m a big lad…6ft 2, 19 stone. What’s the best for me up a hill…the ARCC?
Thanks. I think there are bigger factors to consider than your size/weight. ie do you have and existing bike to convert? What's the budget? Do you live in Holland (or the Scottish Highlands)? What are you using it for? And so on.
Found this video and this channel completely by chance. Great review I must say and a funny host. Thumbs up
What a kind thing to write. Thank you!
Great review and comparison
😆 credits at end
Nice informative review. Unfortunately it's too expensive for me to buy either one. Next time you demonstrate the wobbling tendencies of a bike, just remove your hands slightly from the handle bars, say 3 inches, so if it goes out of control you can stop yourself from falling by quickly placing your hands back on the handle bars.
Yeah, I did try that a couple of times, but it didn’t really show the problem well on film, so I tried to go for 4 inches, then five, then crash, bang, wallop!
Wonderful review. Fabulous showmanship.
Very kind of you, thank you!
❤ thanks for the delightful specs on which you liked better. I think your freaky AND
Your funny!!!😂😂😂
thx for the review.
First time I’ve seen you Arlo and I’ll be sticking to old fashioned human pedal power for a while yet but I enjoyed the review. You seem to trigger the sensitive/precious …..a good quality in my book😊
Made me chuckle your video, but I can agree never take your hands off an Arcc Moulton, I found out several times the effect is lethal.
Next time your testing small wheel bikes....a helmet maybe? I cancelled the Switch conversion a while back after a few dodgy reviews. Went bofang diy mid 750w motor instead things a beast. All legal honest 🤫
Did you install it yourself? Was it easy? Thanks
@@brendangray To be frank it was a total pain in the rear and fiddly. Still better than this thing.
Thanks for the review. Am I right that I picked up that the ARCC is only available on a very small number (three?) of bikes? I'm considering a bike conversion for my Marin gravel bike - my main quandary is front or mid hub conversions. Any thoughts?
I believe ARCC will do other bikes, but you need to contact them. Think you mean front or rear hub conversions? (not aware of any mid drive conversion kits). I think the general rule is that mid-drives are best, rear hub next, and front last. But unless you're pushing things a bit, on a 250w bike, I find the difference marginal.
@@arlo.guthrie - thanks, I meant mid-drive (not hub). Where I live the hills are massive around me unless I want cycle in a small area so I need to ensure as much power (as is legally allowed) and a spare wouldn't go amiss. I'll contact ARCC. Thanks again!
Thanks - great information!!!!!
thank you for a nice review! if I could give one suggestion, it would be *_very_* useful to have a section for _charging_ these solutions (or in the future anything that includes/primarily operates from a battery) including, but of course not limited to, device side charge plug type, charger voltage and current output, if charger is switching type (worldwide usage), if charger is branded by company or using different listed manufacturer, battery voltage and either amp/hour or watt/hour (I know you mentioned this part but including for the sake of completeness), if there are other chargers (ie fast charger) available for sale, and of course how long charging took you going from dead, or very nearly dead, to 100%. For myself this information can make or break my choice, very possible I'm alone in this thinking though.. lol I realize this reads like a lot of work but besides the charging time I think it would only take a couple minutes to get the information with devices in hand and I'd guess
Good point Michael. I will remember to talk about charge time next time!
I don't think it's the small wheels, per se. More to do with the small frame and odd steering geometry of bikes like that. Never had a problem with any BMX style bike but every folding bike with those extended handlebars I've ever tried has been squirelly as hell. I think it's just a trade-off to allow for taller riders.
That's interesting, I must go and try out a different small wheeled bike.
Rely great review thank you. I was looking at Swyrch"s new kit. Can you do one on that?
Thanks. As to Swytch's new kit, maybe, but they'd probably have to send me one to review as I've got enough ebikes at the moment!! And I've got a few other things in the pipeline at the moment.
Love it Arlo, when’s the outtake video coming with the Porsche, hedge trimmer and biking incidents?
I'm not sure I want to put them all together. People might think I was accident prone!
Thank you for this video. Very Well done. I recently saw an ad for Heybike. It looks interesting. Do you know anything about them ? Thank You.
My pleasure. But sorry, no experience of Heybikes.
"Swytches support is really good" you said! 😳...... I really think that you need to take the time to read their latest Google Reviews!!...
Well it was good when I made the review!
Looking at the Arcc and Swytch as I must admit I did put myself down last year for a coversion kit but got tired of waiting, I wanted it for a 700c road cycle I had but as I was looking you could buy a factory made ebike for about £100 more so cancelled my order and brought a factory made one. I did still buy a convertion kit Yose Power with battery for £398 a £100 cheaper then the swytch and arrived within 3 days not 6 molnths like the Swytch would off if I wanted one earlier then it would be nearer a £1,000 not £500, so are front wheel convertion kts worth it? In my opinion no because their pricing are not in line with factory made ebike, betime you converted your own it can cost more then buying a ready made ebike. The Yose power kit is more in line but still at £400 with battery is still to expenxive as a ready made Hybrid both from Halfords and Evans are ready made for £500 Evans cycles, £550 Halfords.
Now mid drive convertions are worth it because mid drives cheapest seen new factory made Argos £1,200, Evans cycles £1,700 and Halfords £1,800 as you can get convertion kit with battery that is a Bafang motor for £750. Not only that these cycles I have mentioned my size 20 to 21 inch frame are not in stock and been told there is a 6 month to 1 year waiting list, if you want a 17inch frame then they are available. To get one suitable blke now cheapest 21 inch with Bostch mid motor was Evans at £2,700, there is cheaper mid drive cnvertion kit then the Bafang a Tongshang for about £650 with battery but I opted for the Bafang, I took my factory front hub cycle and converted it into a mid drive, changed most of the parts metal mudguards to high quality plastic, a better derailur, in fact changed 65% of the original cycle the only originality to the cycle is frame, battery and forks everything else different so without having to buy a battery the kit cost just under £400, after selling the original electrics got a mid motor cycle for under a £1,000 and because the convertion was used on bike that was originally an eBike a place to hide all the cables.
Converitng your own cycle is fun but personally feel especially the hub convertion kits need to come down in price because there are masny factory built ones the same or even cheaper then these kits, i have built two eBikes up with convertion kits a hub one where drilling in the frame and putting rivet nuts in to hold the battery, soldering better connections on battery connections there can be a lot of work involved grinding as even so they look easy on line to build no two cycles are the same and many times made to look easy to do a video, my spindle for the crank I had to use a breaker bar to loosen it but I work on my car and got some heavy duty tools as without them and just using cycle tools would of been impossible, I would say converting your own mid drive is well worth it as their is a waiting list for decent priced once and convertion kits are cheap compared to the fatory made mid drive cycles as you can build your own even if you brought a brand new cycle for under a £1,000 but you did that with a hub motor your talking £650 to a £1,000 and you can get a factory made one for under £600 not worth doing a hub motor convertion as not saving nothing and a lot of work invloved.
Ty 👍👍
And what did you have for breakfast?
not really sure how a conversion kit only converts ARCC bikes - Swytch may not be the answer either, but i could convert my Electra Cruiser7 with Swytch for mere arm and a leg if i wanted to.
The Swytch pedal sensor looks like a problem, I have been trying to figure out exactly how it is held in place (or not, as the case may be...). Funny review!
Thank you! The sensor is strapped to the frame with adhesive/ pull ties. The other part of the sensor comes in two parts, one of which is attached to the arm of the pedal, and the other then circlipped to it.
I've got a Swytch. Adding the pedal sensor is a doddle. The reason for the confusion is you don't need ALL the bits supplied which is because they want this kit to be universal - it depends on your bike. I didn't need the arm.
Next time, try comparing with with similar sized wheels
That's a good idea. Next time, when I want to compare bikes with similar sized wheels, I'll get two bikes with, er, similar sized wheels. 😉
Arcc is the Best and customer service is bar none th3 best!!
Great review but, getting up that hill looked hard work on both, I thought an e-bike would make it easy 🤔
Thank you. I wonder if my film really shows how steep that hill is! Without assistance, I would have had to get off and walk. Thankfully there aren't that many hills that are as bad as that round here.
Hahaha, I was in the law library and I laughed out loud :D
Excellent! Glad you enjoyed it.
Who puts a basket on a bike? I waited 5 months for my swytch......and they forgot 3 main parts. What a joke how do you forget the battery holder the magnetic sprocket and the charging cord?
I use a basket. Not everyone is you, there is a lot of diversity out there in humans. We are not clones!
Hi Arlo, I’m a bit confused. I’ve watched a few videos of the Swytch bike on UA-cam now and no one seems to be struggling up hill as much as you are in this video (no offence) You don’t seem that unfit to me, so can I ask what power setting did you have it on? The lady in this video seems to fly up hill only on the second power setting and on a much steeper hill ( I’ve been on that hill as I live near it) ua-cam.com/video/NDV1MlxYdlc/v-deo.html
Would love to know your opinion on this?
Laughed put loud. Well either I am more unfit than I look, or the hill I was on was much steeper. I think it's the latter. Looks to me like that film you linked to was made in Bristol, and I think I recognise the road. Anyway, I think I am right in saying he isn't on an ebike and he's motoring along quite quickly behind her, which also suggests that hill isn't anything like as steep as the one I was on.
@@arlo.guthrie Thanks Arlo, that is a fair enough response! I’ve ordered a Swytch regardless as I think it will be great for my Bristol commute. Enjoyed watching your videos, funny stuff.
@@ow8759 Thank you, glad you enjoy the reviews. Let us know how you get on with the Swytch!
@@arlo.guthrie Still, what was your power setting? There's 5 levels and one suspects you only had it on one (lowest), perhaps for comedic effect or not to show up the Arcc or ???
@@davidseslar5798 Both bikes were on full power. It’s a very steep hill!
Yes, but you didn't say how many miles you got out of a full charge! I've got a swych convert and can only get 12miles out of a full charge! When swych quite 32 miles, which I feel is pretty poor to put it mildly!
Range is so difficult, because it depends hugely on the weight of the passenger, whether you are going uphill, and to a lesser degree, what the ambient temperature is. Oh yes, and what battery you have. Still, a few of us did a roughly 26 mile ride yesterday, up a particularly long and steep hill (probably 2/3 miles). One was on a Swytch with the biggest battery. I guess he's about 90kg and he just about made it back. Without the hill, he would have gone further. You don't look like you're small in the photo, but unless you're going up a one in one hill on a cold day, 12 miles sounds bad and I'd take that up with Swytch. Perhaps you have a duff battery.
@@arlo.guthrie I did, they sent me a new battery pack Eventuality, which is no better ! I find it very strange that if I don't use the bike for a week say, that it looses charge! This shouldn't happen with lithium batteries, So the only conclusion I can make is, they are not using lithium batteries but a cheaper inferior battery ! and when I say 12 miles, that's hi bred with a 27" wheel cheers Colin
@@rowenadavis2614 i haven’t had that problem … battery discharge (or any other sort of discharge, now I think of it)
Nice stunt work, you could tell it was all CGI though ;)
I wish it bloody was! Hurt like hell!
@@arlo.guthrie looked nasty :-o
You cannot compare an independent delivery from any company to Amazon… people are so used to Amazon’s fast delivery that they forget the delivery hubs and unreal logistic power… not a fair comparison
Hospital admissions -- har, har, har...
BTW, unless you gear down, the Swytch won't contribute significant torque to the front wheel.
The Hall effect sensor has to securely fastened. No doubt, it's THE weak link.
The biggest problem for every e-bike: theft.
Both of these machines do the best job of thwarting thieves -- as the batteries walk off with the owner.
Couldn't agree more re: theft. 6 of us were in Bristol for lunch, and two had their locked e-bikes stolen, in broad daylight, in a busy street with CCTV cameras. This despite the fact that at least one had battery removed.
@@arlo.guthrie Bikes -- all of them -- need VIN numbers -- same as automobiles. As it stands, in most jurisdictions, there is no official unique identifier. Hence, ownership or theft can't be established in court.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
I feel bad for you ebike riders in the UK. My Ariel Rider X-Class can go up a steep hill at about 25mph without pedaling. But of course I pedal, sometimes. LOL
That's the law in the UK. A bike that operates with a motor without pedalling would be a powered vehicle so would need a driving licence and insurance and be subject to construction regulations. In the UK, all we can have is (i) pedal assist and (ii) 250 W. I personally think it's fine to have the law as it is. I have a Gtech ebike and it's great for getting around. Before I retired I used to do the 11-mile journey to work in well under an hour, recharge the battery in the works office and then go home. It was cycling ... but a bit easier on my 65-year-old legs.
So basically. You feel bad for people not breaking the law. How nice
@@Dillixx Not at all. I feel bad of laws that limit people's choices.
Really don't see the point of these kits, really bad value for what you get compared to say an EM3EV 250w kit. They're just marketing bottom barrel components to people who don't know any better.
DO NOT buy this kit. They have had my money for over 6 months and have yet to deliver the product. This is a startup company in the UK that has not figured out the supply chain. Yet, they hold your money. I ordered in June and here we sit in January with NOTHING.
Are you talking about Swytch?
@@arlo.guthrie Yes. Thanks for the clarification. I am referring to the Swytch kit.
I had done the same. Bought two(2) kits in June or July and receive them in mid January. At least I have until about May, before it will be warm enough to ride, to install the kits. The one kit I have been working on has caused me a few problems. The sensor on the peddle did not what to fit correctly. Really had to modify the center ring to fit over the nut.
Another backhander for Arlo from the supplier. 😁
Nope … i didnt get any backhanders. They loaned me the ARCC and I bought the Swytch
To be fair, the kits should be compared on bikes with the same diameter wheels. Both the motors are likely 250w, so most of the difference will be the wheels and the gearing. As you performed your hill test, I would have been surprised if the Moulton hadn’t been easier. I ride a bafang g31x front hub motor which is slightly more powerful with a 52 v battery which is on my Bike Friday with 20” wheels. It climbs a similar hill with no issues easing up it and no skyrocketing heart rate (about 90bpm at about 11pm. I could go faster with full power but I don’t due to being careful with motor temperature.
Hmm, the big-wheeled bike has many more gears than the small one, and I assumed that at the lowest gear, it'd probably be lower geared than the small-wheeled bike. But maybe not. As you say, both 250W motors.
I like when you say 'cycle path' as it keeps sounding, to me, like 'psychopath'. he he.
Unrelated to the kits, the wheel size difference disqualified anything you could say, since the gearing is different.
Thank you! Next time wear head protection!
That wouldn't have helped .. it was actually my wrist and elbow that took the hit, not my head!
£1800 quid HAHAHAHA some one is on drugs. Literally twice the price of ANY competitor
BROMPTON ELECTRIC. "THE WORLDS MOST UNRELIABLE BIKE".. Both of my Electric Brompton"s continuously keep braking down. The poor quality bearings & electronics keep failing. Brompton knows about this. But just keeps replacing them with same the parts. Buy yourself several Chines copies for the same price. Or better still a Honda CBR 125cc motorcycle for the same price. Feel less disappointed & save yourself a fortune.
I don't think comparing these two one on a full size wheel bike and one on a tiny wheel bike is a good comparison
Very fair point. I'm thin king of putting power-assist on a 1969 Moulton and I still am not sure.
But the point is they are geared differently to compensate for the different wheel sizes so it's a similar experience pedalling / powering them.
@@arlo.guthrie Moulton are and always have been obsessed, and quite reasonably so, with comparing their performance with that of traditional bikes. Maybe your mistake here was that you missed a trick to do a four-way comparison, each power assist on each bike.
I think the point was to also compare the two bikes w/ different wheel sizes, as well as the conversion kits
Both are over complicated : the rules/law says that conversions don't have to have the pedal (pedelec) nonsense , which seems to have been the product of an EU committee. The 2007 Sparticle conversion = hub motor + battery + power display control + THROTTLE , all sorted !
Pretty sure throttle only is still basically illegal on UK roads (i.e. only technically permissible at super low speed). So pedal assist is a must unless you only ride on private land.
I don't like the way you have to order from Switch.
I'm new to Ebikes and I'm not understanding what's up with these two brands.
He's saying they cost $300-600 for the battery's, they only go 15mph
And that's strange to me because most of the ones I've heard of go around 30mph, cost around $200 and these $200 ones have screens that display speed, battery% and several other important things.
Did he say 15kmh?
EU and UK pedal assisted eBikes have to be restricted to 15mph
The only advantage with a E bike is hills & in the wind. Anything else they're useless
You are thinking of Deliveroo ebikes who have their own top secret supply of Chinese bikes that go 70mph...
Strangely the police in Manchester don't see to care two hoots...
Don't waste your time and money on a conversion kit, get down to Halfords and buy a Carrera Subway Ebike. Great components and warranty. Most bike shops won't do repairs on these conversion kit bikes
100%. That's one of the reasons i went to Decathlon to buy mine, Great bike and service, Middlebrook Horwich.
A friend of mine bought a swytch kit. He hated it. Definitely not worth the money. He had a faulty controller, he couldn’t believe the price of the replacement. So he binned the kit and sold the bike. He bought a ebike from Decathlon.
Why would a shop have a problem working on a converted bike? It’s only a different front wheel and in the unlikely event a shop did have a problem you could just swap the wheel. I got the Swytch because I live next to a mountain and wanted to use my existing bike to access more terrain. My existing bike is vastly superior to anything carerra make and wouldn’t want anything assembled by Halfords.
Watch out for those local psychopaths !
I've spent some time trying to think what you mean, but I'm still none the wiser!
@@arlo.guthrie I was referencing the 'local cycle paths' you mentioned on the video (@ 4:48 & 5:43) because it sounds very much like you said psychopaths. It was a joke, as you would want to avoid any psychopaths ...
@@davidd.6004 laughed out loud, that has just caused much laughter at our Friday night pint in the local boozer!
250watts motors are not good for uphills
Yeah, but sadly that’s the max in the UK.
I bought the 2022 model with battery max and I waited 8 months for this, it is more compact, it is advertised for 35 km but I have never exceeded 20 km with it. I called support, but for them there is no problem, it's definitely my fault, my bike is perfectly adjusted, I weigh 80 KG and the route I take is flat. For the price a swytchbike is way too expensive
Hmm, well we definitely got more than 20 km in testing, the first leg of the trip in the film was 27km. That said, it does depend on what power setting you use, and I think my tester was a few kilos lighter.
I also think there is a problem with the battery but since swytchbike does not recognize it, we have to admit that a range of 20 km with the battery using the mode with the lowest assistance is possible. It would be a good kit if it was sold by a serious company that respects deadlines and assumes its responsibilities, In the meantime, every time I come across a cyclist who asks me for information on this kit, I dissuade them from buying one.
Bikes and scooters with tiny wheels are inherently dangerous.
Please, please wear a helmet, think of your wife and daughter.
While it’s true that wearing a helmet has been shown to decrease the number of head injuries, it’s been shown to increase the number of neck injuries. Further, studies showed that drivers gave measurably more space to riders not wearing a helmet than they did to riders wearing a helmet. I would suggest that being a skilled rider who maintains awareness of one’s surroundings is significantly more important than wearing a helmet.
@@adamgaynor7814 Very interesting info there, cheers for that, worth knowing.
Why would you bring anything to your local psychopath?
Personal safety?
What I find hard to believe Arlo, is that you would review this crappy product, riding on pavement, with a helmet on your brain pan!
Then crash while saying that one cannot take one's hands off the bars for even a second. Very odd. But then, your good brethren over there ride motorcycles at 200 mph down quaint ittle country lanes lines with walls and tree and doggies and babies being held by the mums and dads, so who knows. Somethin in the water maybe?
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Can't tell if this is British humor or just plain user errors but most useless review.
When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.
How odd, I found this review incredibly helpful. Real world review with a bit of humour and banter to solidify facts in one's mind.
What a ridiculous comment. I say well done Arlo.
Hello is there a out for mobile charge ? does the engine recharge when coasting downhills,???? Arlo this is very important information if u living of grid ur review is shallow without this information,,,,,🫥😶🌫️👍. Ta
You're not the first to call me 'shallow', and I very much doubt you'll be the last! But since you ask, no out for mobile charge. No, the engine does not recharge going downhill. I wonder if any ebike does that, because unlike cars (which obviously weigh so much more), there probably isnt enough energy to make it worth all the extra expense etc to try and harvest it.