Griseo didn't really blow up a city per se, as she doesn't get powers from being near someone, but she does get "Colour" (Aka. Someone's personality), with which she can make a painting. These paintings have mental effects on those around them. For example, as stated by Raven, when she made a painting with Kalpas's Colours, the painting caused the entire city to go ape shit and into a civil war, all the while Griseo kept painting
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 I was under the personal impression that it wasn’t that the painting made you insane when you look at it, but rather that it emanated “go kill that person in particular because fuck em” vibes around the city
If everything was a cycle until the end of the first part, it means there were other eras before the previous era. What if the existence of Elysia was because someone from PPE did something to the Cocoon the same way Elysia and others from PE altered the Cocoon? Maybe each era did something to help the next in one way or another.
Eh, very not likely. Dr MEI stated that the chance of an 'Elysia' happening was so astronomically small it was basically impossible get another one naturally
My understanding of what the guy above is saying is that there wasn't another Elysia but that someone in PPPPE did something, then the people in PPPE noticed that thing as they were dying and did something else which caused the people of PPE to think that beauty and pink are the best things in the world as they themselves were dying and so in PE Elysia was born. @@modacross4534
@@modacross4534. Honestly, I feel like it’s more similar to how genes work, with a dominant and recessive side. Since GGZ is technically connected to the Honkai multiverse, it stands to reason that it’s connected to the other series in some way. With that logic in mind, let’s assume GGZ was some couple runs before the previous era. This would mean that Dr. MEI would be correct because the chances would seem small due to the fact multiple different cycles happened between the two games, but it would also explain how elysia managed to awaken as Herrschers were SUPPOSED to have minds of their own, as shown through the Herrschers in GGZ. This would mean that all Herrschers initially had the probability of awakening and controlling their powers, but Elysia tipped the scales and increased the aforementioned probability, thus making the will of Honkai’s influence more of a suggestion rather than a virtual guarantee.
@@totsukabladez369 GGZ is confirmed by mihoyo as a different universe, it's not PPPE or something for HI3rd, it's a totally different, if similar branch on the Imaginary Tree. GGZ also has a totally different controlling intelligence behind the honkai, with the Master of Wills instead of the Cocoon of Finality, and yes, they are different. MoW was a group of superintelligences that didn't always all agree, but did all hate humanity. Cocoon of Finality is specifically trying to get humanity to use Honkai energy to rise up to its level and become like it, and each time we fail, it resets the world in a 50000 year time loop. Before Prometheus at the end of PE hacked the Cocoon and caused the Time authority to not reset the cycle, there was no previous Era, it was the exact same loop playing over and over with slight variations.
A big problem that I personally have with your list is that you try to separate the warriors from what would be considered their standard gear. In something like Death Battle, the rules would require you to include them, so for example, Kallen would get _Oath of Judah_ because that's her standard gear, as well as being Theresa's later on. Both Siegfried and Kevin would get _Judgement of Shamash_, and _Star of Eden_ is a symbol standard for every Herrscher of Reason. On top of that, Herrschers with multiple forms can, according to Mei, shift between those forms at will, which would most likely also involve a change in gear. Kiana has demonstrated using her Void powers while in HoF form multiple times, so a shift isn't necessarily a requirement -- although given the change in colour scheme, it would feel weird to see HoO Mei riding Kurikara. Welt Yang most likely retains a psudo-Core, otherwise he shouldn't be able to use _Star of Eden_ abilities in _HSR_ , he'd just be a human who _used_ to have the powers of a Herrscher. Which obviously isn't the case given his ability to deny monsters their turns. He could also rebuild his body, which does not age, from scratch at any time, as he's done in the past. After all, how would he expect to be able to protecc HSR Himeko from the Sky People without a significant amount of power, independent of Void Archives? It doesn't make sense to say he can't use any of the powers he had as a Herrscher considering the entire premise of his journey depends on him being powerful enough against the kinds of threats we saw so far in APHO. So he should be at least S-Tier, if not double. Although given how much Bronya improved since he taught her about the Gem and how to use it, maybe his most dangerous ability is his ability to teach others? Seele certainly is not weaker than Veliona, as Veliona herself has acknowledged. Where Seele's story in Part 1 was about her own growth, Part 1.5 is about Veliona's growth and maturity, until both Seeles can stand as equals, neither subordinate to the other, and neither lacking the self-confidence to do so. Seele's strength throughout her story has been based around her compassion, which can heal others as well as motivating them to act. Veliona's strength is her decisiveness, and once Seele became more self-confident, Veliona's place as the one who takes action for her was put into jeopardy. That's why it became so important for them both to have bodies, be able to act simultaneously, together, and to make friends of their own and live their own lives together. Seele saw this long before Veliona did, and she acted to make it happen. Seele and Veliona are both A-Tier before gaining Herrscher powers. Then Seele became at least S-Tier. Murata Himeko was at least A-Tier. You're forgetting she also used the Arctic Kriegsmesser battlesuit, which didn't put stress on her body. Of course VKE would, because of the Gem of Haste, but she was already dying from Honkai poisoning by the time she put it on. Taking Himeko's feats in her battle against Sirin as any sort of baseline would be a mistake, since she was not in her peak condition. We can easily see what she's capable of without having to worry about Honkai Cascade and death, though, because when we play as her in the game, those effects aren't things we need to be concerned about. Himeko still commonly pops up in the Armada Simulated Battles, so her performance is easy to evaluate. So if we take her in peak physical condition and give her VKE, she has no problem keeping up with Sirin, but she's still not as effective as HoT or HoR with their newer gears, as they can rinse Sirin or Beneres _very_ quickly. A -Tier, and a deserved one. For Otto, his scheming alone puts him at SSS-Tier, since he was able to manipulate _everyone_ to helping him get exactly what he wanted, while also granting them what _they_ wanted. He was also smart enough to find a way to interact with the Imaginary Tree without becoming its slave, while being strong enough to use a dimmer copy of any Divine Key, and also become the Herrscher of Binding (although False God Otto should probably not be considered a 'standard' form since he only used it the one time, the only time he's ever had to). Despite having survived 500 years through his Soulium Clones, he insisted on calling himself a human for most of it. He was also smart enough to realize when a plan wasn't working and switch tracks, instead of trying to do the same thing again and expecting a different result -- so we know that while he was a Supersimp for Kallen, he wasn't insane. Yes, he is responsible for billions of deaths and a huge amount of damage because he stopped Fu Hua and Siegfried from killing Sirin, but he is also responsible for Theresa, Kiana, and Durandal. Without him, there would only be Durandal-Kiana. The Herrschers probably wouldn't have been popping up so fast, but we also wouldn't have anyone other than Kevin who would be recognized by all the Herrscher Authorities and the Cocoon of Finality. So thanks, Otto, but also screw you, Otto. Once Senti gets her Brick and new Stigmata set, you might have to put her up a tier. Yes, she makes her own Divine Key. It is a brick. With her face on it. Kiana would truly be the most powerful in _HI3_ (except for the Cocoon itself) if she could bring back her Flex pose animation. Bronya Before: I wanna be a Magical Girl and a Kamen Rider. Bronya Now: I wanna be a Gundam and a Frame Arms Girl.
Wasn't it explained that the only reason Himeko managed to win(technically she did, she just hesitated in the last second) against HoV is that because she was weakened, and by weakened I'm talking about around 90% of her actual capabilities aren't usable by her since she woke up on an entirely new body and that her honkai reserves got sucked out of her by a Selene canon fired by Einstein If K423 Sirin was given enough time, she would've killed Himeko almost immediately. If I'm being honest, she should be the one on D-tier and not Griseo, because she heavily relies on gears unlike Griseo who literally just needs to draw something and can give even MANTIS-es a hard time subduing her paintings
Like I Do Agree but the Herrscher Of The Void Is Incarnation Of Sirin so she should be used to her body since it what she always has unless because she has been asleep/unawakened most of the Space-Time so she hasn’t gotten used to it
that is completely true, Sirin in her own body had the capability to destroy the entire planet on her own, hell she wiped out millions as a threat. K423 sirin was a vessel that still hadnt reach full potential, give her a few more days and she could have beaten himeko
@@unknown_unfound Yeah, in the early chapters, I don't think there was anyone who could have actually 1v1ed original Sirin and even come close to winning.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 late reply but technically there is someone that can solo 1v1 her in the earlier chapters, it's Kevin, but he's stuck in the SoQuanta. He actually made an appearance in the second erruption manga when Siegfried entered the Kaslana stigma space iirc
Did you know, that additional to the strength Kevin most of us know, he apparently is strong enough to break his weapon in half by merely his own hands? As stated by the sim Kevin in Elysian Realm, as one of his random lines right before when you select one his Signets in a Deep Sequence run of Elysian Realm.
Isn't "Base" Elysia only second to "Base" Kevin? Something about her being behind him for a very small difference. Wouldn't change Kalpas' tier but I guess it's worth mentioning.
Elysia explained in ER that the ranking was not made based on who was the strongest, it based on how much influence one has in making decisions. If you remember correctly, Elysia was first in command but gave her position to Kevin later on.
@@nicholasmogiba6361yes true, but nobody said about the command rank, it's completely different. After the first battle with Mei, Elysia stated something along these lines "I'm the Flame-Chaser that's as strong as Kevin... Maybe Kevin is a little stronger, just a little" and then Mei replied "sure just slightly" Mei said it in a Jokingly manner. not the exact quote, but the same gist.
She's probably the only one on base form that can actually give Base Kevin a hard time even with his weapon because all FCs gets slapped hard no diff by Kevin whenever he takes out his weapon Take Hua for example, even her Garuda form stood no chance against Kevin with JoShamash Anyway, back to your question, all Kevin vs Ellie forms should go like this Base Kevin vs Base Ellie - Kevin wins extreme diff Then HoHE Ellie wins against all forms of Kevin until he uses his AoFinality/Deliverance form
@@amadeus8343 Remember that the power of the hercher of the origin is to restrict the finality. I don't know if it would be so easy for Kivin, taking into account that he couldn't use all the power he had of the finality. I'm sure he would win, but it wouldn't be easy at all.
Power Tierlists in HI3 are always funny because that verse isn't as batshit insane as GGZ that has literally Lovecraftain gods with all that implies or low scale like Genshin which higest feats is like, every thursday for other Hoyoverses
Was he stronger than the Trio? Yes, but, that's due to the fact he was getting power from Finality. And even then the Authority wasn't his, so it was rejecting him. Kiana, after defeating Kevin and becoming True Finality/Fusing with the Cocoon basically made her a Goddess. She's got every known and unknown Authority of the Cocoon at her fingertips, along with the limitless amount of energy. Kevin was strong, but if he fought True Finality Kiana he'd get his ass handed to him
You put Sirin in A tier yet she nearly wiped out humanity AND threw asteroids at the earth because she was bored..if that's not God level powers then idk what is, that slotting to A tier voided everything else after the fact because technically she's God tier. Herrschers are literally God-like beings..lol. Sirin killed Millions upon millions during the Siberian Honkai Eruption. Her body count is insane.
I dunno about that but Sirin is A/S tier especially with WoH protection. The God tiers are just that OP. They cuts fate, rewrite it, authority over time and multiverse. The scale went from planetary to multiverses and concept real quick skipping the solar, galaxy and universe level.
If we're talking Honkai Impact and not APHO, then I can see Welt being in C Tier But in APHO, where he's stated to have the Core of Reason back (Aka. The only reason he can even use the Star of Eden, since the og was destroyed), I'd put him a bit higher
This is precisely what I was thinking XD. I don't think it is fair to look at Welt as he was at the end of the moon chapter since at that point he completely retired from combat and was only teaching Bronya/acting as logistics. If we look at Welt's peak in HI3 then I would say he should be at either B or A tier since I can only see him ever losing to people at least as strong as Fu Hua. If we take a look at APHO Welt, however, I think it becomes a bit tricky since learn that Bronya gave the core back to him but also, the core itself was fundamentally changed during the moon arc where it was apparently "reactivated" or something, allowing the user to not only use more honkai energy, but also create things they don't even fully understand. The latter could've been a Bronya specific trait since she does fully master the core at that time but a power boost is a power boost. If Welt was even 50% as strong as Herrscher of Truth Bronya, I would argue that he would be A tier, and if he was 100% or maybe even stronger than HoTr Bronya, S tier. Only reason I think he could be stronger is because he has more experience than Bronya both with using the core as well as experience gained by tackling difficult situations his entire life. Also side note, with regards to HSR we don't really know his full situation. Did he return his core before leaving Earth, did he take the "real" Star of Eden, does honkai energy even work the same there, and so on. He could be hella decked out and just holding back his power or he could've returned everything and is trying his hardest to not break his back, we just don't know. His character story III even mentions that no one knows if he still has his powers or not, so I think we just need to wait and see what Grandpa Welt has in store for us XD.
@@thearchoncollector5637 considering the fact that Welt can use the Star of Eden, he does have it in HSR. Because of one fact, the Original SoE was destroyed, and after that, every time it was used it was a perfect copy made by the Core of Reason. And since the Core of Reason can just casually spawn the Copy SoE's like it's nothing, I don't see why they'd need to repair the Original
@@modacross4534Well, firstly the Star of Eden was repaired. When Bronya was fighting with Rita during Kolosten arc she pulled out the real Star of Eden to break free since she couldn’t quite create one with her reason powers. Secondly, during second erruption Otto did imply that a simulated copy of a divine key isn’t as strong as the original by applauding Welt for fighting with a fake. We can also see that in the cutscene “Thus spoke Appocalypse” where he had to constantly create mimicries of divine keys since they broke after a few uses.
Again, I wanna stress that even Welt’s lore is trying to keep wether or not he is as strong as his prime a mystery. I don’t think there is any way we can know how strong he is, even if he had the core and Star of Eden, until we see him in action. Who knows, it is entirely possible that after spending years away from conflict and in a animation studio he got so rusty that even Susannah could beat him. We just have no way to be sure right now. 😅
@@thearchoncollector5637 I'ma need to rewatch that Bronya vs Rita fight. Because I remember it being that Bronya constantly kept making the SoE's/repairing the Copy on the fly since they didn't have the Og. Something to check out later. And I'd honestly say that Welt's SoE is on the samé level as the Og SoE, since it actually has a Zeroth, unlike VA's inferior Copies.
after the fight in the moon and absorbing the full authority of finality kiana is a tier or two higher than any other character, you need to take into account that the reason that she is in the moon is because her powers are to strong and earth will be destroyed if she come down.
If we're talking about after they defeated Kevin, then yes Otherwise, Kevin still mops the floor with anyone in the verse, excluding of course the will of Honkai and Captains who are supposed to be "higher beings"
Kalpas explanation is a bit lacking in my opinion, this is the guy who’s only lost 2.5 times(1 to Kevin, 1 to Ely and 0.5 to Sakura) before he even got MANTIS powers and even then his potential was so high that although MANTIS powers did increase his strength, it actually decreased his potential to be stronger(probably the reason he ded on top of his recklessness & straightforward close-combat fighting style) There’s also Aponia who should be a bit higher as her mind control was able to force Kalpas to bend to it and to some extent Kevin too
Kalpas's MANTIS surgery didn't actually make him weaker, because they just, didn't work. Everytime they tried to MANTIS him, it failed. Only after the Tenth Herrscher did Mobius find out how to make him into a MANTIS (Tldr: Také the stuff that's Messing with the surgery, out, literally) After that, he became a MANTIS, with the power boost And all the side effects and then some
@@modacross4534 I wasn’t saying it made him weaker, said it decreased his “potential” to be stronger since his body had something that made him unable to be a MANTIS which shouldn’t be possible unless it’s stronger than the MANTIS powers since being weaker would just cause it to be suppressed while being on par would cause the 2 to either negate each other or blow up along with his body
Wait wait- Kallen on C tier? In game, there was an information, which tells that in her lifetime, she was considered as the strongest person from whole House Kaslana, what also includes Kevin. She should be AT LEAST S tier (just based on informations from game)
If the main group of characters didn't rely on the Ai Hyperion deus ex machina, they wouldn't have been able to defeat Kevin in the end. This is because Kevin is assessed as a being surpassing the final Herrscher, whereas Kiana only possesses the power of a half the final Herrscher, the power difference between the two sides is too vast. The final Herrscher of the previous era can kill two flame-chasers within 5 minutes, and the Flame-Chasers on the moon at the time possessed powers far beyond the general Herrscher. Considering the above, Kevin should be can easily kill Mei and Bronya, or incapacitate them within an extremely short period of time. If no unexpected events occur, Kiana won't be able to escape the fate of defeat either. In the end, Kiana and her companions are unharmed, which is impossible under the circumstances given Kevin's overwhelming power. This indicates that Kevin had no intention to harm them but was merely acting as the ultimate examiner to assess their abilities, so it can be inferred that Kevin did not exert his full strength because he lacked the desire for combat and the intention to kill his opponents.
That's factually wrong, they both had half the authority, that has little to do with their raw power, they were handling him pretty well by themselves until he pulled that thick shield which bronya herself was confident she could take by spawning several Selene cannons, and we already know how it goes after that. It was a plot point that Kevin wished to go all out and die, stated by misteln and exemplified by Kevin going full power despite already saying they passed the test, after transforming into the chimera of humanity, he had already sealed his fate and started dying, that's the price for such power, which is not something Kiana suffers from since she's a genuine embrace Kevin is simply not stronger than the 3 of them
Everybody treats the Ai Hyperion Cannon as Deus Ex Machina which is true but ignore the previous Deus Ex Machina they gave to Kevin too The Infinite Shield. with lasers rain down on the trio. It's basically a quick made up solution for a quick made up problem which is natural for every storytelling. Kevin fans just don't like their fav mid diffed by the trio lmao.
@@melwyn789 I have made the reasons very clear. Kevin is far superior to kiana and her partners in terms of strength and spirit. Now when they are facing insurmountable problems, Ai Hyperion comes to Deus Ex Machina, so You still think this is a reasonable plot, I can only say that you are too superficial.
When Mei fought against Kalpas’ sim in the Elysian realm, she described his strength to be more than the Rimestar, which was only the equivalent of 2 Herrschers. So I don’t think Kalpas would rank that high considering some of the other characters on the “God” tier are definitely way above the Rimestar in terms of strength, unless I’m misremembering the dialogue from the scene.
Late reply but sim Kalpas is a lot weaker than his original counterpart, same with all the FCs in ER and he was able to kill a Herrscher barehanded even before getting his upgrades, so while I do think you have a point, he shouldn't be that far down into the list
i think people are low balling rimestar too low. she was beaten by durandal and mei , she lockdown an entire island full of A rank valkyries. and in one of the dialogues in ER chapter Mei said that the Sims are far weaker than their original self. even stating that if she battle the real mobius she could've lost. so maybe sim kalpas is just that weak but original kalpas is far stronger.
10:26 the disrespect on daughteru is really something, she's one of the strongest threats in honkai even now still contenting to one of the strongest characters in the game, she's confirmed if she ever mastered her abilities the current era wouldn't have been able to stop her. she created mega tsunami's destroyed several cities, and even BRF'd a fission nukes down below before it could hit her when she was still awakening. everything they did was all gimmicks to fight against sirin because they literally could not fight back against her. even welt assumed that sirin will survive even if he detonated his core at the level of 1.8 solar masses. Even after she was nerfed down, she still had enough power to devastate the entire east coast of asia and syberia if it wasn't for the fact that she was just immature with her abilities. two of the confirmed herrschers that had enough power to destroy the world was sirin and the first herrscher who both had higher volume then that of the bubble universe made by Selene which is the volume of a solar system. and it's even implied in GGZ sirin has enough power to destroy the world let alone, her innate ability to manipulate a route to the imaginary tree, BRF, her spatial aura was enough to bend the laws of space-time itself. and cause a global crisis even now sirin is underscored as a contender as much as she was even empowered in the current story beating, S rita, breaking a divine key easily and even taking on a void battle suit. HOV even in the fight against himeko lost 90% of her honkai energy against her, current HoV powered kiana even contended against Durandal and parried attacks from her. the part where she was cut wasn't because she was cut as well it was because of fenshuang down. the sword had no effect on her at all. and fu hua even had to burn one of the feathers to severe the connection between sirin and the Will. they used all sorts of gimmicks to fight against sirin and still couldn't win, they had to extract the gems from her, and made her sleep just so they could even the chance against her. and they still lost. despite being the strongest divine key, it didn't destroy sirin. sirin still remained intact even after shamash blasted away her honkai cascade along side her. and it still took a sacrifice and siegfrieds shamash and cecilia to fully even temporarily stop her honkai cascade. let's not even talk about that 2nd eruption sirin was stated on par with the current era 2nd eruption stated by otto himself. sirin was never a slack, she knew everything about the current era even before then. even the divine keys thanks to the will giving her memories. she even learned how to use divine keys with just a glance her learning abilities are some of biggest things that impacted how the fight went, and the key factor was them using arahato, welt surprise and analyzing and even needing to find a way to counter her and all they could think of've was herrscher of binding but that was against an already weakened sirin.
The only reason why Kevin lost to Kiana and the others was because he had to lose in order to end the story. He was undoubtedly stronger than all of them
The Kevin simps lack reading comprehension thinking he is stronger than Finality Kiana. 😂 Play the moon arc again it was stated the power of Finality is destroying his body and if not for his mantis power he would be a goner while Kiana after their fight have full access to Finality power because she was chosen by the cocoon.. she doesn’t have any negative side effects at all.
(spoilers for main story and the Second Eruption manga below, you have been warned) "Not being able to solve things without resorting to violence", what about Cecilia in the Second Eruption manga? She tried to be a good mom for Sirin, despite all the people Sirin killed as revenge against humanity. Her kindness almost won Sirin over, but Bella's "defeat" causing Sirin to no longer sense her, is what broke Sirin from such kindness working on her. If the "heroes" hadn't defeated Bella, we would've had Sirin on our side. I have a theory, that the reason Sirin could not help but make the dream prison for Siegfried and Cecilia, a happy one, using the stolen Fenghuang Down, even though she wanted it to be a nightmare for them, is because Sirin, deep-down longed for having a family again. Despite her hatred for all of humanity. Both her actual parents died, by what I can only assume is Otto's fault. As most deaths in the series up to Otto actually dying for good in main story, is his fault for selfishly trying to seek any means to bring back his beloved Kallen, no matter how many people suffer and die as a result of those attempts. From what I hear, if he somehow revived Kallen through killing so many people, that would go against the code that Kaslanas follow by. And Kallen would not be happy to be brought back if it meant so many people had to die to bring her back from the dead. Which it's impossible to bring back to life a person who has died and their soul passed onwards to the afterlife. But alas, Sirin's death and her Herrscher Core being implanted into K-423's body, is what caused our Kiana to survive the creation process, through Sirin's wish to have a second life, where 422 Kiana clones before her perished during the creation process. Otto's selfish desire to bring back Kallen by any means necessary to do so, is also why we have Theresa, who is his adopted granddaughter that was created with Kallen's DNA.
btw, another thing that holds Himeko back, is her Stigma, her Stigma is an artificial one, which are more likely to kill it's host than a natural Stigma. The more she uses it, the closer she is to die, she was near death before fighting Herrscher of the Void, to the point she was given something that suppresses Honkai energy on the user applying it to themself. She was given it to suppress her own Honkai energy, but doing so would render her unable to use that Honkai energy for combat-related reasons. Rather than delay her own death by her artificial Stigma, she decided to fight HoV to the end to save K-423 without killing her to stop HoV, which she ended the fight by injecting the Honkai energy suppressing fluid onto K-423's body, which freed K-423 from HoV's control over her, since Herrschers have their power fueled by Honkai energy, partially at least. Possessing a Herrscher Core in their body is also required of a Herrscher to be a Herrscher
I think the Mantis Power Eden got was being able to manipulate sound waves & she also were the original wielder of Star of Eden before Kevin destroyed it when he fought Su at the Seed of Sumeru & when Welt Yang (1st Herrscher of Reason, Current Era) reproduced it before being inherited by Joachim Nokianvirtanen (Current 2nd Herrscher of Reason Welt Yang)
Wait didn't Kevin mention that even the weakest Flamechaser is able to beat a herrscher easily? Except the herrscher of finality ofc, What's holding pardo off is probably her personality of being easily scared. Also apparently the Eden was able to fully utilize the star of eden so that would make her very talented in that department, and she did play a major role in the battle on the moon too... Her Honkai beast form is a flying giant whale so she's the one responsible for transporting the others to the moon 💀 and ofc during the battle she apparently didn't participate tho since if she dies they won't have a way to come back
I always thought that line was a bit odd. Because clearly some flamechasers weren't capable of beating a herrscher like Pardo as you said. Only way is that he meant it as a general things that the combat flamechasers can actually beat one.
I'm sorry, but I would have to consider Sirin as S-Tier at minimum. She had 6 Herrscher Cores and caused massive world-wide destruction. Her biggest weaknesses were her arrogance, her inexperience due to how young she was and her lingering humanity.
Kebin is still the strongest character not counting HoTe. It took three angry god girls and a cabbage with a op weapon to beat him and he was still going easy. And Kevin just has better feats overall.
I think that False God Otto should be also in the God tier. It took Both the God tier Dudu and kiana in the Flamscion form ( so probably S ) to beat him, and it was only possible due to Kiana having the right ability.
Keep in mind both griseo and pardo have transformations we havent seen so they probably are much stronger than depicted especially griseo as she has art/creation powers
i'm okay with the tier list except of : -kallen who should be D tier - sirin who should be S tier she caused 2nd eruption on her second awakening and on her first awakening fu hua had to cut her link to the will of honkai to be able to defeat her and even with that she survived (+ the fact that she acted like herrscher of finality by being capable of absorbing cores of other herrschers so she could be even stronger). pretty sure she can clap senti -Su who should be A tier
Help- how is Kevin in D tier when he literally smack the hell out of the herscherrer of the end and let her sleep for a day or less than a day y’all be serious rn like his not even on his full potential when he fought with the trio because he old af I understand sirin and Su don’t do ke🅱️in dirty like that give me a better reason why he should be in D 😬
Kevin da the Strongest character who got nerfed so many times + 25% of Finality authority But his shield that once survived HotE got beat by missiles. BEST ARC EVER BRO NGL IM NOT GONNA LIE HEAR ME OUT!!!!!!!
She made a painting, *A PAINTING* , based off of Kalpas and it managed to destroy an entire city before it was subdued. If we're talking about potential, she's probably one of the characters that can get more powerful exponentially as the time passes
@@PotatoAlmanac To be more exact. By Taking Kalpas Colours, and making a painting with it. This painting in turn plunged the city into chaos and civil war, with whatever effect it had on the minds of the citizens
One statement I would disagree with is how you powerscaled in kevin In ER elysia states kalpas was no match against her or kevin, he would get taken out fast when he decided to fight at full power in one dialogue another thing is about durandal I feel is being overestimated, I doubt she could defeat kevin, who literallytook 3 herrschers fully awakened, 2 with authorities that are linked to the cocoon itself to be defeated. Else i am fine with the rest of the list
Seele is technically one of the Awakened Herrscher now, plus having double authority (Creation and Destruction). That would put her on par with truth and origin
no, she would be lower than Sirin at least since she have like 6 authority: Void, Fire, Wind, Death, Thunder, Reason. Reason was taken from Welt on the moon Actually,, Sirin should be much higher
Like she has 1 Authority which is Life And Death Manipulation and it’s ability to wither and create more like Heal And Harm Is 1 of its abilities under its Authority/Life And Death Manipulation
Seele isn’t technically a herscher. She doesn’t derive her authority from the cocoon of finality. She gets her power from Sa, who operates like the Cocoon in the sea of Quanta. We don’t know if Sa is as powerful as finality. Also the only reason Seele could revive people was because the special properties of the bubble universe where souls didn’t instantly disappear after death. Seele cannot revive anyone on Earth.
@@AstraLuna-o9i Sa's system is 10 times smaller than Cocon of Finality so it can't create Herrsher on it own. BUT if you collect enough Honkai Energy (or Sa Energy in this case), you can still create a Herrsher and this Herrsher is equal HoFi of "Cocoon of Finality". Which mean Herrsher of Rebirth is the strongest in Sa system and 10 times weaker than Herrsher of Finality About reviving people, even Herrhser of Death in the real world could not revived death people since "the soul" dissappear too fast after people died. They can only "recreate a vessel or body" but not the soul. This is why Otto was dissapointed with Herrsher of Death in 2nd Eruption
No, not even close, comparing her to either Origin or even bloody Finality is a joke. Herrcher of Rebirth is quite literally just Herrscher of Death, that's it. Sure she's implied to be an Awakened Herrscher, but by all means, that implies she's at most somewhere at HoT Mei's level.
With event the strongest being is : AI Lambda And you want canon, technically the strongest : You, yes You. Even above GGZ Outer Gods. The alpha and omega, the beginning and end of time. Though you still lose in authority when Ai Lambda (Event) counts
@@Remstar same thing with Ai Lambda or Dawei in that matter, I mean if they can't even hurt you would that even mean they're stronger? (Except you met them irl and somehow they beat you up, that's a different story)
Imo this tier list is very weird. For example, it's weird to put Welt so low and Bronay so hight, since Welt was the one who gave the core to Bronya and the one who took it back by the time of APHO, which is implied by Carole saying "it's so cool to watch the herrscher fight", when talking about Welt, while saying absolutely nothing similar about Bronya. I think if in Welt's situation the herrscher core counts as some external source of power, then it should be the same for Bronya, so either Welt should be higher or Bronya should be lower. Same for otto probably. And there are some other characters that are placed in a weird way.
Kiana is just so OD has every herrscher power and being able to control the imaginary tree which contains infinite universes is just BS in a way because her limit is basically non she can just tap dance and destroy universes at the rhythm she's dancing in
Am I the only one who is confused why Welt is in the list. There are names from Star Rail, and only one real character from another game: Fischel, Genshin. And there are only few,ale characters
While I do agree that Mei (and Elysia) fits into God Tier, there's a problem Her power, by all means, isn't equal to Kiana, not even close i fact. Finality (That means, proper Goddess Fused-with-the-Cocoon Kiana), has all Herrscher powers (and by all, I means all we've seen, and those we haven't). Not just time and the 13 others. Origin on the other hand, from a good bit of lore diving and theorizing, seems to be Conceptual Honkai Manipulation. For example, do the Strings of Fate of the Cocoon count as Honkai? Origin can manipulate them. Do Herrschers count as Honkai? Origin can manipulate them. Honkai Energy? Same thing. (Tho, the feats here are mostly capable due to Elysia being the Authority given human form) So while I'd put her in God Tier, saying Mei (and Elysia) is equal to Kiana is, not correct.
@@Zino_Kohiruimaki Okay, one, no, the Authority isn't doesn't have the title Origin/Human, it's just Origin. Two, no, it's not fate manipulation, if it was, then by all means, Previous Era would have won with zero difficulty and Elysia wouldn't have to die, straight up. Because good luck beating Fate. The only reason Elysia wasn't on the Strings of Fate was because she was escentially an Error in the cycle. There's also the fact that it just, doesn't match up, sure Elysia has one feat of messing with the Strings of Fate, but as I said, what a good few lore guys came up with was the whole Conceptual Honkai Manipulation. Elysia is know for being the best Honkai manipulator (To the point she could beat Pre-MANTIS Kalpas with just pure skill). Pulling Authorities to them? Honkai Manipulation. Having a perfectly compatible body with Vipralopa beast? Honkai Manipulation (+being Herrscher). Helping Moth deal with PE Void? Honkai Manipulation. But other than that? It was never, and I mean never stated it was Fate manipulation. Elysia outright didn't reveal shit, while basically saying "Figure it out yourselves~". And before you bring up anything said by Mei, one, even Mei doesn't know everything about her power (Hell, Senti seems to know more about the power), and two, she's known to be poetic, so anything she says is to be taken with a grain of salt and examined. So no, it's not Fate manipulation
@@modacross4534 Like she actually Does Have Fate Manipulation it’s just that she didn’t know what her Herrscher Authority is especially about her being a Herrscher she just had a Feeling/Intuition of it so I don’t Blame Her To Be honest and maybe she didn’t have a Fate or more like had a fate of her own is because she was a Fate Manipulator and a Anomaly and I also know That the title Just is Origin but I added Human Because Elysias Humanity is what’s part of her Ego and also the Herrscher Of The Finality/End Has Control Over Concept/Concept Manipulation meaning the Herrscher Of The End/Finality Does Actually has a ability of a Respective Concept it has Control Over and actually also Has the Authority of Every Herrscher From Beyond the current era such as even Before the previous era and even the future Eras meaning The Past, Current And Future Eras Inluding the Total Concept Of Honkai Itself meaning the Herrscher Of The Finality can manipulate and control Honkai so it wouldn’t make sense that Elysia can do It despite being a part of Cocoon And Elysia being a Herrscher does have Extremely high Outstanding Honkai Adaptability and it was Stated especially in The Manga The Higher The Honkai Adaptability/Resistance the more the Person is able to Manipulate & Control Honkai which Elysia Has Especially Being A Herrscher And Having A Actual Herrscher Stigmata and it is stated that the Herrscher Of Origin/Humanity Power Is Equal To Herrscher Of Finally But not in Abilities And so of course Elysia would Defeat Exactly The Herrscher Of The Void with having no Experience and just learning To use its Powers/Abilities and because of Herrscher Of The Finality/End Having Control Over Concepts It Can Also Manipulate Fate Meaning If Elysia Did Remove The Threads Of Fate with sarcrifing Herself the Honkai would have just put It up back again so Which Meaning Elysia Sacrificing Herself would Remove The Threads Of Fate Entirely Permanently even if The Herrscher Of Finality Would try again To Restore the strings of Fate it would Automatically be Erased again on Autopilot By Authority Of Origin
This ranking is kind of wonky ngl. I don't see much point in separating gear from a character's kit, for one. Realistically, there is no way the God tier is occupied by anyone other than Kiana and Kevin. Finality's Authority is on a completely different level that it deserves its own tier. Lumping so many people in there is misleading, the gap between the lowest person in that tier (Kalpas) vs the highest two (Kaslanas) is like heaven and earth. I'd personally rank those last ones as Kiana (ending) > Kevin > Kiana (before ending) > Mei = Elysia = HoTr > Kalpas = Dudu And if you care about feats of destruction carried out under their own power, literally nobody trounces Sirin, her Eruption was as close to an apocalyptic event as a single person was able to achieve in Part 1. No, project stigma wasn't done by Kevin alone and he didn't even conceive most of it himself, in case anyone wants to bring it up.
Also, I don't think PROMETHEUS is the Will of Honkai, at least not back then with Sirin's time. PROMETHEUS in the Salt Snow City arc of the main story says she has the strongest link to the Will of Honkai out of everyone there. If she really was the Will of Honkai, wouldn't it be more fitting for her to say that she IS the Will of Honkai? She has no reason to hide that from Seele and the others, as they are Valkyries, and therefore, are very familiar with Honkai in general. Saying that she's IS the Will of Honkai only for saying she has the strongest link to the Will of Honkai, is like saying Haniwa clay figures being buried with the dead makes them corpses of those people who died they are buried with, it's just not logical, and I'm a strong follower of logic and reasonable thinking.
I haven't done the new chapter but if the Prometheus who came with hare say that then Prometheus is the will of honkai.That Prometheus is not Prometheus from the previous era.Just like how fallen rosemary and Rita are different those two are also different.The Prometheus from previous era is the will of honkai.The Prometheus in story is another version of her that hare save from the destroyed bubble universe
I keep hearing how Elysia is on par with Finality and I just don't buy that. Both the origin and Elysia where ultimately creations of Finality, and even with Elysia fighting along side the Flamechasers Humanity was still mostly wiped out before Finality even showed up. Elysia seems to be decently powerful for sure, but still far behind the power of Finality, she just has an odd quirk that allows her to overcome Finality's influence.
I thought you're going to split the god tier again (probably just because there's too much in god tier lol) That aside, i still want to know durandal's full potential.... She's definitely stronger than the base herrscher trio
Like actually yeah Sirin should be in “God” Tier since she is half of the Herrscher Of The Finality/End due to having 6 Herrscher Cores/Gems meaning she would be stronger than Mei And Bronya at least and also The Herrscher Of The Finality/End Ability/Authority Is Control Over Concepts meaning that the Herrscher Of Finality has the Ability/Authority of actually any Herrscher Regardless of its era from the current era and other eras even before the previous era and even from the future eras and the Herrscher Of The Finality just happens to use the authority Of Time just to actually Reset Time every time it fails to “Embrace” humanity And Also Actually correctly Space-Time is Really what the Universe is made up of
I barely follow the lore but even I know this tier list is giga-bad. Every Herrscher from PE was miles stronger than their counterparts in CE, meaning that flame-chasers, at least the top 5, are literally tier above everyone else, except maybe Finality Kiana. Senti having Fu-Hua's body also puts her at similar level to them.
That's right. Most flamechasers is pretty much at the top. But really, we have seen the PE herrshers, especially the trio going way over what you see in PE. Finality is a no brainer. But in lore, origin was roughly on the same level as finality and even truth is far above what was seen back then. So, I'd say it's fair.
The CE Herrschers arent stated to be weaker, they are diferent in nature and in acting, like the PE herrschers where killing machines that wanted only to destroy humanity, but CE herrschers thanks to Ellie retained some of their humanity and some even obtained control of their powers, but tecnically they are the same and CE are even better that PE (depends on the situation), but you cant compare one human fully adapted to its power and some human who obtained power and have to undestand it, like when Kivin said Mei could do all what the PE HoT could do and maybe more but she was still undestanding her autority, and even more no all the herrschers are really powerfull its the circunstance of their birth like the Legion Herscher of PE wasnt powerfull but had numbers, and now the HOD had numbers and was adapted to steal powers from some other herrschers (who didnt have fully control), Senti is one example as she was born and had almost full control of her power thats why she was so strong but she was handicaping herself due to the who Iam problem she had
"Every Herrscher from PE was miles stronger than their counterparts in CE." This statement is completely untrue. CE Void, Dominance, and Sentience are superior to their PE counterparts. Also, Honkai's invasion force gets stronger in response to civilization's strength. CE has Herrschers, Divine Keys, and a few surviving Flame-Chasers on its side far earlier than PE. Honkai responded to the current era's strength with earlier Judgement class Honkai Beasts to fight the elevated humanity and stronger Herrschers to fight humanity's Herrschers.
imo you shouldn't remove the weapon from a character's strength. It's not like they never carry around their weapons... Also for Fu Hua, didn't Fu Hua say that she did deliberately lose to Sushang? Also we do know Sushang's capabilities. Durandal (I think? Maybe it was Rita or Kiana. One of the Valkyries) was surprised at how strong she was for her rank. Which I would say puts her at kinda in between the power level of an A rank or S rank Valk, so probably D tier in this tier list And Durandal definitely isn't God-tier.
Never heard that about Hua. That would mean she's intent on sabotaging Kiana, leaving her to fight Otto alone which is out of character for her. If she did say that herself, it kinda sound like she's trying to save face if anything.
My reasoing for the weapons was that if they were included in their strengths from the start, things will get really muddy when multiple characters had the same weapon as their personal one like the Shamash. Or even battlesuits like in Himeko's, where she threw the divine key suit on to beat HoV which would be unfair to include. That's why I went back and redid the list.
The core of reason broke him and he didn’t get the core in full potential because he is a a lot weaker than bronya I mean there’s no more explanation than this
did vita not say she stole as much authority as possible so she is equal to Sa apart from the power to make roots and change the universes rules?@@Mush_strawberry
Griseo didn't really blow up a city per se, as she doesn't get powers from being near someone, but she does get "Colour" (Aka. Someone's personality), with which she can make a painting.
These paintings have mental effects on those around them.
For example, as stated by Raven, when she made a painting with Kalpas's Colours, the painting caused the entire city to go ape shit and into a civil war, all the while Griseo kept painting
How did an entire city see her painting anyways?
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 I was under the personal impression that it wasn’t that the painting made you insane when you look at it, but rather that it emanated “go kill that person in particular because fuck em” vibes around the city
@@kaptainsalty7335 the hell she drew?
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 she drew Thailand and we all know how China feels bout them
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 They don't really need to see it, as the paintings are implied to have an area of effect
The strongest isn't tuna or mei, it's our resident world #1 strongest cutie Teri-teri
Nope I am
He should have included the idol Teri Teri because we all know she’s the #1
ITS THE GLORIOUS HERRSCHER OF SENTIENCE!
If everything was a cycle until the end of the first part, it means there were other eras before the previous era. What if the existence of Elysia was because someone from PPE did something to the Cocoon the same way Elysia and others from PE altered the Cocoon? Maybe each era did something to help the next in one way or another.
Like yeah your Right probably
Eh, very not likely. Dr MEI stated that the chance of an 'Elysia' happening was so astronomically small it was basically impossible get another one naturally
My understanding of what the guy above is saying is that there wasn't another Elysia but that someone in PPPPE did something, then the people in PPPE noticed that thing as they were dying and did something else which caused the people of PPE to think that beauty and pink are the best things in the world as they themselves were dying and so in PE Elysia was born. @@modacross4534
@@modacross4534. Honestly, I feel like it’s more similar to how genes work, with a dominant and recessive side. Since GGZ is technically connected to the Honkai multiverse, it stands to reason that it’s connected to the other series in some way. With that logic in mind, let’s assume GGZ was some couple runs before the previous era. This would mean that Dr. MEI would be correct because the chances would seem small due to the fact multiple different cycles happened between the two games, but it would also explain how elysia managed to awaken as Herrschers were SUPPOSED to have minds of their own, as shown through the Herrschers in GGZ. This would mean that all Herrschers initially had the probability of awakening and controlling their powers, but Elysia tipped the scales and increased the aforementioned probability, thus making the will of Honkai’s influence more of a suggestion rather than a virtual guarantee.
@@totsukabladez369 GGZ is confirmed by mihoyo as a different universe, it's not PPPE or something for HI3rd, it's a totally different, if similar branch on the Imaginary Tree. GGZ also has a totally different controlling intelligence behind the honkai, with the Master of Wills instead of the Cocoon of Finality, and yes, they are different. MoW was a group of superintelligences that didn't always all agree, but did all hate humanity. Cocoon of Finality is specifically trying to get humanity to use Honkai energy to rise up to its level and become like it, and each time we fail, it resets the world in a 50000 year time loop. Before Prometheus at the end of PE hacked the Cocoon and caused the Time authority to not reset the cycle, there was no previous Era, it was the exact same loop playing over and over with slight variations.
A big problem that I personally have with your list is that you try to separate the warriors from what would be considered their standard gear. In something like Death Battle, the rules would require you to include them, so for example, Kallen would get _Oath of Judah_ because that's her standard gear, as well as being Theresa's later on. Both Siegfried and Kevin would get _Judgement of Shamash_, and _Star of Eden_ is a symbol standard for every Herrscher of Reason. On top of that, Herrschers with multiple forms can, according to Mei, shift between those forms at will, which would most likely also involve a change in gear. Kiana has demonstrated using her Void powers while in HoF form multiple times, so a shift isn't necessarily a requirement -- although given the change in colour scheme, it would feel weird to see HoO Mei riding Kurikara.
Welt Yang most likely retains a psudo-Core, otherwise he shouldn't be able to use _Star of Eden_ abilities in _HSR_ , he'd just be a human who _used_ to have the powers of a Herrscher. Which obviously isn't the case given his ability to deny monsters their turns. He could also rebuild his body, which does not age, from scratch at any time, as he's done in the past. After all, how would he expect to be able to protecc HSR Himeko from the Sky People without a significant amount of power, independent of Void Archives? It doesn't make sense to say he can't use any of the powers he had as a Herrscher considering the entire premise of his journey depends on him being powerful enough against the kinds of threats we saw so far in APHO. So he should be at least S-Tier, if not double. Although given how much Bronya improved since he taught her about the Gem and how to use it, maybe his most dangerous ability is his ability to teach others?
Seele certainly is not weaker than Veliona, as Veliona herself has acknowledged. Where Seele's story in Part 1 was about her own growth, Part 1.5 is about Veliona's growth and maturity, until both Seeles can stand as equals, neither subordinate to the other, and neither lacking the self-confidence to do so. Seele's strength throughout her story has been based around her compassion, which can heal others as well as motivating them to act. Veliona's strength is her decisiveness, and once Seele became more self-confident, Veliona's place as the one who takes action for her was put into jeopardy. That's why it became so important for them both to have bodies, be able to act simultaneously, together, and to make friends of their own and live their own lives together. Seele saw this long before Veliona did, and she acted to make it happen. Seele and Veliona are both A-Tier before gaining Herrscher powers. Then Seele became at least S-Tier.
Murata Himeko was at least A-Tier. You're forgetting she also used the Arctic Kriegsmesser battlesuit, which didn't put stress on her body. Of course VKE would, because of the Gem of Haste, but she was already dying from Honkai poisoning by the time she put it on. Taking Himeko's feats in her battle against Sirin as any sort of baseline would be a mistake, since she was not in her peak condition. We can easily see what she's capable of without having to worry about Honkai Cascade and death, though, because when we play as her in the game, those effects aren't things we need to be concerned about. Himeko still commonly pops up in the Armada Simulated Battles, so her performance is easy to evaluate. So if we take her in peak physical condition and give her VKE, she has no problem keeping up with Sirin, but she's still not as effective as HoT or HoR with their newer gears, as they can rinse Sirin or Beneres _very_ quickly. A -Tier, and a deserved one.
For Otto, his scheming alone puts him at SSS-Tier, since he was able to manipulate _everyone_ to helping him get exactly what he wanted, while also granting them what _they_ wanted. He was also smart enough to find a way to interact with the Imaginary Tree without becoming its slave, while being strong enough to use a dimmer copy of any Divine Key, and also become the Herrscher of Binding (although False God Otto should probably not be considered a 'standard' form since he only used it the one time, the only time he's ever had to). Despite having survived 500 years through his Soulium Clones, he insisted on calling himself a human for most of it. He was also smart enough to realize when a plan wasn't working and switch tracks, instead of trying to do the same thing again and expecting a different result -- so we know that while he was a Supersimp for Kallen, he wasn't insane. Yes, he is responsible for billions of deaths and a huge amount of damage because he stopped Fu Hua and Siegfried from killing Sirin, but he is also responsible for Theresa, Kiana, and Durandal. Without him, there would only be Durandal-Kiana. The Herrschers probably wouldn't have been popping up so fast, but we also wouldn't have anyone other than Kevin who would be recognized by all the Herrscher Authorities and the Cocoon of Finality. So thanks, Otto, but also screw you, Otto.
Once Senti gets her Brick and new Stigmata set, you might have to put her up a tier. Yes, she makes her own Divine Key. It is a brick. With her face on it.
Kiana would truly be the most powerful in _HI3_ (except for the Cocoon itself) if she could bring back her Flex pose animation.
Bronya Before: I wanna be a Magical Girl and a Kamen Rider.
Bronya Now: I wanna be a Gundam and a Frame Arms Girl.
Wasn't it explained that the only reason Himeko managed to win(technically she did, she just hesitated in the last second) against HoV is that because she was weakened, and by weakened I'm talking about around 90% of her actual capabilities aren't usable by her since she woke up on an entirely new body and that her honkai reserves got sucked out of her by a Selene canon fired by Einstein
If K423 Sirin was given enough time, she would've killed Himeko almost immediately. If I'm being honest, she should be the one on D-tier and not Griseo, because she heavily relies on gears unlike Griseo who literally just needs to draw something and can give even MANTIS-es a hard time subduing her paintings
It wasn’t sucked by Selene, Selene literally turned the Honkai inside of HoV into pure conventional energy.
Like I Do Agree but the Herrscher Of The Void Is Incarnation Of Sirin so she should be used to her body since it what she always has unless because she has been asleep/unawakened most of the Space-Time so she hasn’t gotten used to it
that is completely true, Sirin in her own body had the capability to destroy the entire planet on her own, hell she wiped out millions as a threat. K423 sirin was a vessel that still hadnt reach full potential, give her a few more days and she could have beaten himeko
@@unknown_unfound Yeah, in the early chapters, I don't think there was anyone who could have actually 1v1ed original Sirin and even come close to winning.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 late reply but technically there is someone that can solo 1v1 her in the earlier chapters, it's Kevin, but he's stuck in the SoQuanta. He actually made an appearance in the second erruption manga when Siegfried entered the Kaslana stigma space iirc
Did you know, that additional to the strength Kevin most of us know, he apparently is strong enough to break his weapon in half by merely his own hands? As stated by the sim Kevin in Elysian Realm, as one of his random lines right before when you select one his Signets in a Deep Sequence run of Elysian Realm.
Isn't "Base" Elysia only second to "Base" Kevin? Something about her being behind him for a very small difference. Wouldn't change Kalpas' tier but I guess it's worth mentioning.
Elysia explained in ER that the ranking was not made based on who was the strongest, it based on how much influence one has in making decisions. If you remember correctly, Elysia was first in command but gave her position to Kevin later on.
@@nicholasmogiba6361yes true, but nobody said about the command rank, it's completely different. After the first battle with Mei, Elysia stated something along these lines "I'm the Flame-Chaser that's as strong as Kevin... Maybe Kevin is a little stronger, just a little" and then Mei replied "sure just slightly" Mei said it in a Jokingly manner. not the exact quote, but the same gist.
She's probably the only one on base form that can actually give Base Kevin a hard time even with his weapon because all FCs gets slapped hard no diff by Kevin whenever he takes out his weapon
Take Hua for example, even her Garuda form stood no chance against Kevin with JoShamash
Anyway, back to your question, all Kevin vs Ellie forms should go like this
Base Kevin vs Base Ellie - Kevin wins extreme diff
Then HoHE Ellie wins against all forms of Kevin until he uses his AoFinality/Deliverance form
@@amadeus8343 Remember that the power of the hercher of the origin is to restrict the finality. I don't know if it would be so easy for Kivin, taking into account that he couldn't use all the power he had of the finality. I'm sure he would win, but it wouldn't be easy at all.
@@amadeus8343nah, base Kevin>>> prime Elysia
Power Tierlists in HI3 are always funny because that verse isn't as batshit insane as GGZ that has literally Lovecraftain gods with all that implies or low scale like Genshin which higest feats is like, every thursday for other Hoyoverses
But Kevin was stronger than the whole trio at a time, so he could be put in a separate section.
True. That is before Kiana fully stole Finality from him.
@@PotatoAlmanac i mean bro literally ded so kiana ofc took the authority 😭 and dead people cant be strongest anymore
@@PotatoAlmanac not a fact, but okk
@@BerserkGlazer200 that’s true but he still very stonk in the golden days so he deserves to be in the top
Was he stronger than the Trio? Yes, but, that's due to the fact he was getting power from Finality. And even then the Authority wasn't his, so it was rejecting him.
Kiana, after defeating Kevin and becoming True Finality/Fusing with the Cocoon basically made her a Goddess. She's got every known and unknown Authority of the Cocoon at her fingertips, along with the limitless amount of energy.
Kevin was strong, but if he fought True Finality Kiana he'd get his ass handed to him
You put Sirin in A tier yet she nearly wiped out humanity AND threw asteroids at the earth because she was bored..if that's not God level powers then idk what is, that slotting to A tier voided everything else after the fact because technically she's God tier. Herrschers are literally God-like beings..lol. Sirin killed Millions upon millions during the Siberian Honkai Eruption. Her body count is insane.
I dunno about that but Sirin is A/S tier especially with WoH protection. The God tiers are just that OP. They cuts fate, rewrite it, authority over time and multiverse. The scale went from planetary to multiverses and concept real quick skipping the solar, galaxy and universe level.
If we're talking Honkai Impact and not APHO, then I can see Welt being in C Tier
But in APHO, where he's stated to have the Core of Reason back (Aka. The only reason he can even use the Star of Eden, since the og was destroyed), I'd put him a bit higher
This is precisely what I was thinking XD. I don't think it is fair to look at Welt as he was at the end of the moon chapter since at that point he completely retired from combat and was only teaching Bronya/acting as logistics. If we look at Welt's peak in HI3 then I would say he should be at either B or A tier since I can only see him ever losing to people at least as strong as Fu Hua. If we take a look at APHO Welt, however, I think it becomes a bit tricky since learn that Bronya gave the core back to him but also, the core itself was fundamentally changed during the moon arc where it was apparently "reactivated" or something, allowing the user to not only use more honkai energy, but also create things they don't even fully understand. The latter could've been a Bronya specific trait since she does fully master the core at that time but a power boost is a power boost. If Welt was even 50% as strong as Herrscher of Truth Bronya, I would argue that he would be A tier, and if he was 100% or maybe even stronger than HoTr Bronya, S tier. Only reason I think he could be stronger is because he has more experience than Bronya both with using the core as well as experience gained by tackling difficult situations his entire life.
Also side note, with regards to HSR we don't really know his full situation. Did he return his core before leaving Earth, did he take the "real" Star of Eden, does honkai energy even work the same there, and so on. He could be hella decked out and just holding back his power or he could've returned everything and is trying his hardest to not break his back, we just don't know. His character story III even mentions that no one knows if he still has his powers or not, so I think we just need to wait and see what Grandpa Welt has in store for us XD.
@@thearchoncollector5637 considering the fact that Welt can use the Star of Eden, he does have it in HSR.
Because of one fact, the Original SoE was destroyed, and after that, every time it was used it was a perfect copy made by the Core of Reason. And since the Core of Reason can just casually spawn the Copy SoE's like it's nothing, I don't see why they'd need to repair the Original
@@modacross4534Well, firstly the Star of Eden was repaired. When Bronya was fighting with Rita during Kolosten arc she pulled out the real Star of Eden to break free since she couldn’t quite create one with her reason powers. Secondly, during second erruption Otto did imply that a simulated copy of a divine key isn’t as strong as the original by applauding Welt for fighting with a fake. We can also see that in the cutscene “Thus spoke Appocalypse” where he had to constantly create mimicries of divine keys since they broke after a few uses.
Again, I wanna stress that even Welt’s lore is trying to keep wether or not he is as strong as his prime a mystery. I don’t think there is any way we can know how strong he is, even if he had the core and Star of Eden, until we see him in action. Who knows, it is entirely possible that after spending years away from conflict and in a animation studio he got so rusty that even Susannah could beat him. We just have no way to be sure right now. 😅
@@thearchoncollector5637 I'ma need to rewatch that Bronya vs Rita fight. Because I remember it being that Bronya constantly kept making the SoE's/repairing the Copy on the fly since they didn't have the Og. Something to check out later.
And I'd honestly say that Welt's SoE is on the samé level as the Og SoE, since it actually has a Zeroth, unlike VA's inferior Copies.
after the fight in the moon and absorbing the full authority of finality kiana is a tier or two higher than any other character, you need to take into account that the reason that she is in the moon is because her powers are to strong and earth will be destroyed if she come down.
But Kevin was still stronger than her.
that is before when kiana fully absorb finality after defeating kevin, but individually the trio is weaker than deliverance kevin @@_Void_Archive_
@@_Void_Archive_ during the final fight yea, after that? no, current kiana > final fight kebin
If we're talking about after they defeated Kevin, then yes
Otherwise, Kevin still mops the floor with anyone in the verse, excluding of course the will of Honkai and Captains who are supposed to be "higher beings"
@@_Void_Archive_ that was before absorbing the full authority, after that, kiana is stronger
Kalpas explanation is a bit lacking in my opinion, this is the guy who’s only lost 2.5 times(1 to Kevin, 1 to Ely and 0.5 to Sakura) before he even got MANTIS powers and even then his potential was so high that although MANTIS powers did increase his strength, it actually decreased his potential to be stronger(probably the reason he ded on top of his recklessness & straightforward close-combat fighting style)
There’s also Aponia who should be a bit higher as her mind control was able to force Kalpas to bend to it and to some extent Kevin too
Kalpas's MANTIS surgery didn't actually make him weaker, because they just, didn't work.
Everytime they tried to MANTIS him, it failed. Only after the Tenth Herrscher did Mobius find out how to make him into a MANTIS (Tldr: Také the stuff that's Messing with the surgery, out, literally)
After that, he became a MANTIS, with the power boost And all the side effects and then some
@@modacross4534 I wasn’t saying it made him weaker, said it decreased his “potential” to be stronger since his body had something that made him unable to be a MANTIS which shouldn’t be possible unless it’s stronger than the MANTIS powers since being weaker would just cause it to be suppressed while being on par would cause the 2 to either negate each other or blow up along with his body
Wait wait- Kallen on C tier? In game, there was an information, which tells that in her lifetime, she was considered as the strongest person from whole House Kaslana, what also includes Kevin. She should be AT LEAST S tier (just based on informations from game)
If the main group of characters didn't rely on the Ai Hyperion deus ex machina, they wouldn't have been able to defeat Kevin in the end. This is because Kevin is assessed as a being surpassing the final Herrscher, whereas Kiana only possesses the power of a half the final Herrscher, the power difference between the two sides is too vast.
The final Herrscher of the previous era can kill two flame-chasers within 5 minutes, and the Flame-Chasers on the moon at the time possessed powers far beyond the general Herrscher. Considering the above, Kevin should be can easily kill Mei and Bronya, or incapacitate them within an extremely short period of time. If no unexpected events occur, Kiana won't be able to escape the fate of defeat either.
In the end, Kiana and her companions are unharmed, which is impossible under the circumstances given Kevin's overwhelming power. This indicates that Kevin had no intention to harm them but was merely acting as the ultimate examiner to assess their abilities, so it can be inferred that Kevin did not exert his full strength because he lacked the desire for combat and the intention to kill his opponents.
That's factually wrong, they both had half the authority, that has little to do with their raw power, they were handling him pretty well by themselves until he pulled that thick shield which bronya herself was confident she could take by spawning several Selene cannons, and we already know how it goes after that.
It was a plot point that Kevin wished to go all out and die, stated by misteln and exemplified by Kevin going full power despite already saying they passed the test, after transforming into the chimera of humanity, he had already sealed his fate and started dying, that's the price for such power, which is not something Kiana suffers from since she's a genuine embrace
Kevin is simply not stronger than the 3 of them
Everybody treats the Ai Hyperion Cannon as Deus Ex Machina which is true but ignore the previous Deus Ex Machina they gave to Kevin too The Infinite Shield. with lasers rain down on the trio.
It's basically a quick made up solution for a quick made up problem which is natural for every storytelling.
Kevin fans just don't like their fav mid diffed by the trio lmao.
@@melwyn789 I have made the reasons very clear. Kevin is far superior to kiana and her partners in terms of strength and spirit. Now when they are facing insurmountable problems, Ai Hyperion comes to Deus Ex Machina, so You still think this is a reasonable plot, I can only say that you are too superficial.
he got mid diffed and tried to hide behind shield even before the AI cannon @@allenyiyi
Should have taken Otto at his peak where he was beyond the imaginary tree
When Mei fought against Kalpas’ sim in the Elysian realm, she described his strength to be more than the Rimestar, which was only the equivalent of 2 Herrschers. So I don’t think Kalpas would rank that high considering some of the other characters on the “God” tier are definitely way above the Rimestar in terms of strength, unless I’m misremembering the dialogue from the scene.
You're right. but it doesn't feel right leaving Kalpas with the rest of the flamechasers below.
So demi god tier?
Late reply but sim Kalpas is a lot weaker than his original counterpart, same with all the FCs in ER and he was able to kill a Herrscher barehanded even before getting his upgrades, so while I do think you have a point, he shouldn't be that far down into the list
@@amadeus8343 That’s true but I was only arguing that he wouldn’t be on the same level as people like Kevin, Elysia and HoF Kiana
i think people are low balling rimestar too low. she was beaten by durandal and mei , she lockdown an entire island full of A rank valkyries.
and in one of the dialogues in ER chapter Mei said that the Sims are far weaker than their original self. even stating that if she battle the real mobius she could've lost. so maybe sim kalpas is just that weak but original kalpas is far stronger.
Welcome back potato
10:26 the disrespect on daughteru is really something, she's one of the strongest threats in honkai even now still contenting to one of the strongest characters in the game, she's confirmed if she ever mastered her abilities the current era wouldn't have been able to stop her. she created mega tsunami's destroyed several cities, and even BRF'd a fission nukes down below before it could hit her when she was still awakening. everything they did was all gimmicks to fight against sirin because they literally could not fight back against her. even welt assumed that sirin will survive even if he detonated his core at the level of 1.8 solar masses.
Even after she was nerfed down, she still had enough power to devastate the entire east coast of asia and syberia if it wasn't for the fact that she was just immature with her abilities. two of the confirmed herrschers that had enough power to destroy the world was sirin and the first herrscher who both had higher volume then that of the bubble universe made by Selene which is the volume of a solar system. and it's even implied in GGZ sirin has enough power to destroy the world let alone, her innate ability to manipulate a route to the imaginary tree, BRF, her spatial aura was enough to bend the laws of space-time itself. and cause a global crisis even now sirin is underscored as a contender as much as she was even empowered in the current story beating, S rita, breaking a divine key easily and even taking on a void battle suit. HOV even in the fight against himeko lost 90% of her honkai energy against her, current HoV powered kiana even contended against Durandal and parried attacks from her.
the part where she was cut wasn't because she was cut as well it was because of fenshuang down. the sword had no effect on her at all. and fu hua even had to burn one of the feathers to severe the connection between sirin and the Will.
they used all sorts of gimmicks to fight against sirin and still couldn't win, they had to extract the gems from her, and made her sleep just so they could even the chance against her. and they still lost. despite being the strongest divine key, it didn't destroy sirin. sirin still remained intact even after shamash blasted away her honkai cascade along side her. and it still took a sacrifice and siegfrieds shamash and cecilia to fully even temporarily stop her honkai cascade.
let's not even talk about that 2nd eruption sirin was stated on par with the current era 2nd eruption stated by otto himself.
sirin was never a slack, she knew everything about the current era even before then. even the divine keys thanks to the will giving her memories. she even learned how to use divine keys with just a glance her learning abilities are some of biggest things that impacted how the fight went, and the key factor was them using arahato, welt surprise and analyzing and even needing to find a way to counter her and all they could think of've was herrscher of binding but that was against an already weakened sirin.
Potato: And the strongest character is... *drum roll
Chibi White Comet: ME!
Potato: What
Chibi White Comet: *NEKO-CHARM!*
The only reason why Kevin lost to Kiana and the others was because he had to lose in order to end the story. He was undoubtedly stronger than all of them
Sounds like plot armor. 🤣🤣🤣
The Kevin simps lack reading comprehension thinking he is stronger than Finality Kiana. 😂 Play the moon arc again it was stated the power of Finality is destroying his body and if not for his mantis power he would be a goner while Kiana after their fight have full access to Finality power because she was chosen by the cocoon.. she doesn’t have any negative side effects at all.
(spoilers for main story and the Second Eruption manga below, you have been warned)
"Not being able to solve things without resorting to violence", what about Cecilia in the Second Eruption manga? She tried to be a good mom for Sirin, despite all the people Sirin killed as revenge against humanity. Her kindness almost won Sirin over, but Bella's "defeat" causing Sirin to no longer sense her, is what broke Sirin from such kindness working on her. If the "heroes" hadn't defeated Bella, we would've had Sirin on our side. I have a theory, that the reason Sirin could not help but make the dream prison for Siegfried and Cecilia, a happy one, using the stolen Fenghuang Down, even though she wanted it to be a nightmare for them, is because Sirin, deep-down longed for having a family again. Despite her hatred for all of humanity. Both her actual parents died, by what I can only assume is Otto's fault. As most deaths in the series up to Otto actually dying for good in main story, is his fault for selfishly trying to seek any means to bring back his beloved Kallen, no matter how many people suffer and die as a result of those attempts. From what I hear, if he somehow revived Kallen through killing so many people, that would go against the code that Kaslanas follow by. And Kallen would not be happy to be brought back if it meant so many people had to die to bring her back from the dead. Which it's impossible to bring back to life a person who has died and their soul passed onwards to the afterlife. But alas, Sirin's death and her Herrscher Core being implanted into K-423's body, is what caused our Kiana to survive the creation process, through Sirin's wish to have a second life, where 422 Kiana clones before her perished during the creation process. Otto's selfish desire to bring back Kallen by any means necessary to do so, is also why we have Theresa, who is his adopted granddaughter that was created with Kallen's DNA.
btw, another thing that holds Himeko back, is her Stigma, her Stigma is an artificial one, which are more likely to kill it's host than a natural Stigma. The more she uses it, the closer she is to die, she was near death before fighting Herrscher of the Void, to the point she was given something that suppresses Honkai energy on the user applying it to themself. She was given it to suppress her own Honkai energy, but doing so would render her unable to use that Honkai energy for combat-related reasons. Rather than delay her own death by her artificial Stigma, she decided to fight HoV to the end to save K-423 without killing her to stop HoV, which she ended the fight by injecting the Honkai energy suppressing fluid onto K-423's body, which freed K-423 from HoV's control over her, since Herrschers have their power fueled by Honkai energy, partially at least. Possessing a Herrscher Core in their body is also required of a Herrscher to be a Herrscher
Bold choices. Very cancelable if someone were to screenshot the final result without providing context. Ah, how clumsy that would be
I'm ready.
Its gonna be fun seeing people fighting in the comment section
Exactly, way to get pumped up on some lore.
I think the Mantis Power Eden got was being able to manipulate sound waves & she also were the original wielder of Star of Eden before Kevin destroyed it when he fought Su at the Seed of Sumeru & when Welt Yang (1st Herrscher of Reason, Current Era) reproduced it before being inherited by Joachim Nokianvirtanen (Current 2nd Herrscher of Reason Welt Yang)
Wait didn't Kevin mention that even the weakest Flamechaser is able to beat a herrscher easily? Except the herrscher of finality ofc, What's holding pardo off is probably her personality of being easily scared.
Also apparently the Eden was able to fully utilize the star of eden so that would make her very talented in that department, and she did play a major role in the battle on the moon too... Her Honkai beast form is a flying giant whale so she's the one responsible for transporting the others to the moon 💀 and ofc during the battle she apparently didn't participate tho since if she dies they won't have a way to come back
I always thought that line was a bit odd. Because clearly some flamechasers weren't capable of beating a herrscher like Pardo as you said. Only way is that he meant it as a general things that the combat flamechasers can actually beat one.
@@PotatoAlmanac But Pardo is the strongest Flame-Chaser (in an event).
I'm sorry, but I would have to consider Sirin as S-Tier at minimum. She had 6 Herrscher Cores and caused massive world-wide destruction. Her biggest weaknesses were her arrogance, her inexperience due to how young she was and her lingering humanity.
HoE, Honkai God, Imaginary Tree: *How cute.*
If top spot ain't Kebin ,then I call cap
Kebin is still the strongest character not counting HoTe. It took three angry god girls and a cabbage with a op weapon to beat him and he was still going easy. And Kevin just has better feats overall.
Maybe should add for part 2 for chapter 36 and above. Because I can see Vita and Seele HORB is quite strong.
I think that False God Otto should be also in the God tier. It took Both the God tier Dudu and kiana in the Flamscion form ( so probably S ) to beat him, and it was only possible due to Kiana having the right ability.
Never let bro cook again.. 💀
Keep in mind both griseo and pardo have transformations we havent seen so they probably are much stronger than depicted especially griseo as she has art/creation powers
YES! I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! I LOVE YOU
17:44 you confused the diabolical with the deliverance
Kalpas is canonically weaker than Elysia. Then again, he was also canonically weakened by the mantis operation
we need a "ranking the strongest characters at their PEAK strength" video
Seele S tier cuz she beat HOS and everyone with her big adorable eyes.
i'm okay with the tier list except of :
-kallen who should be D tier
- sirin who should be S tier she caused 2nd eruption on her second awakening and on her first awakening fu hua had to cut her link to the will of honkai to be able to defeat her and even with that she survived (+ the fact that she acted like herrscher of finality by being capable of absorbing cores of other herrschers so she could be even stronger). pretty sure she can clap senti
-Su who should be A tier
Help- how is Kevin in D tier when he literally smack the hell out of the herscherrer of the end and let her sleep for a day or less than a day y’all be serious rn like his not even on his full potential when he fought with the trio because he old af I understand sirin and Su don’t do ke🅱️in dirty like that give me a better reason why he should be in D 😬
@@Mush_strawberry kevin in D tier ? bro are u okay ?
Sirin was getting carried by WOH. You're overestimating her capabilities
@@cap_ace3771 this is litterally waht i said..in fact that doesnt change her power level..being capable of absorbing cores is incredible
You should add "Beyond God Tier": Da Wei and CEO Bronya
Funny video, as always liked. In my opinion the strongest character is the one with plot armour also teri teri.
Promenthius actually created the will of honkai trying to replicate the cocoon of finality.
Bro I expected power scale not a tier list😭
8:44 basically Fu Hua variant while searching and rescuing griseo on venus😂😂
Could you make a video about the herrscher of origin
It's coming soon.
Kevin da the Strongest character who got nerfed so many times + 25% of Finality authority
But his shield that once survived HotE got beat by missiles.
BEST ARC EVER BRO NGL IM NOT GONNA LIE HEAR ME OUT!!!!!!!
The twins being the ones to modify their genetics is funny as heck
but griseo obtain the personality of the person standing with her, not the strenght
She does actually. She even blew up a city be sitting next to Kalpas for too long.
She made a painting, *A PAINTING* , based off of Kalpas and it managed to destroy an entire city before it was subdued. If we're talking about potential, she's probably one of the characters that can get more powerful exponentially as the time passes
@@PotatoAlmanac To be more exact. By Taking Kalpas Colours, and making a painting with it. This painting in turn plunged the city into chaos and civil war, with whatever effect it had on the minds of the citizens
One statement I would disagree with is how you powerscaled in kevin
In ER elysia states kalpas was no match against her or kevin, he would get taken out fast when he decided to fight at full power in one dialogue
another thing is about durandal I feel is being overestimated, I doubt she could defeat kevin, who literallytook 3 herrschers fully awakened, 2 with authorities that are linked to the cocoon itself to be defeated.
Else i am fine with the rest of the list
Honkai Impact 3RD X Team Fortress 2
Also, very nice editing. I like it!
Proud of OG Kiana tho ,Despite not having any herrscher powers she rose to the top just like that, ik She is an anomaly but still
I agree with you kiana is the strongest she did beat Kevin the kaslana way
Glad to see you're back!
strongest character in-game is actually the NPCs (they literally don't die)
I feel like you should have ranked chatacters like ziggy and welt on their prime, makes it more interesting.
You should do this again but META wise XD
No please.
Personality as an idiot whos only figuratively dipped their toes into Honkai I selfishly have my tierlist as Kevin, and then everyone else.
Seele is technically one of the Awakened Herrscher now, plus having double authority (Creation and Destruction). That would put her on par with truth and origin
no, she would be lower than Sirin at least since she have like 6 authority: Void, Fire, Wind, Death, Thunder, Reason. Reason was taken from Welt on the moon
Actually,, Sirin should be much higher
Like she has 1 Authority which is Life And Death Manipulation and it’s ability to wither and create more like Heal And Harm Is 1 of its abilities under its Authority/Life And Death Manipulation
Seele isn’t technically a herscher. She doesn’t derive her authority from the cocoon of finality. She gets her power from Sa, who operates like the Cocoon in the sea of Quanta. We don’t know if Sa is as powerful as finality. Also the only reason Seele could revive people was because the special properties of the bubble universe where souls didn’t instantly disappear after death. Seele cannot revive anyone on Earth.
@@AstraLuna-o9i Sa's system is 10 times smaller than Cocon of Finality so it can't create Herrsher on it own.
BUT if you collect enough Honkai Energy (or Sa Energy in this case), you can still create a Herrsher and this Herrsher is equal HoFi of "Cocoon of Finality". Which mean Herrsher of Rebirth is the strongest in Sa system and 10 times weaker than Herrsher of Finality
About reviving people, even Herrhser of Death in the real world could not revived death people since "the soul" dissappear too fast after people died. They can only "recreate a vessel or body" but not the soul. This is why Otto was dissapointed with Herrsher of Death in 2nd Eruption
No, not even close, comparing her to either Origin or even bloody Finality is a joke.
Herrcher of Rebirth is quite literally just Herrscher of Death, that's it. Sure she's implied to be an Awakened Herrscher, but by all means, that implies she's at most somewhere at HoT Mei's level.
With event the strongest being is :
AI Lambda
And you want canon, technically the strongest :
You, yes You. Even above GGZ Outer Gods. The alpha and omega, the beginning and end of time. Though you still lose in authority when Ai Lambda (Event) counts
Wait what about Ling Yi though 🤨
@@Remstar same thing with Ai Lambda or Dawei in that matter, I mean if they can't even hurt you would that even mean they're stronger? (Except you met them irl and somehow they beat you up, that's a different story)
หายไปไหนมาอีกแล้วเนี่ย~
Burnout + ยุ่งครับ
Lets just say if Griseo became a villain she would be absolutely terrifying
senti should have her own tier, YATTA
Kevin said " even the weakest flame chaser can kill a herrsher " ....so yeah
Pardo W
yippee potato almanac video
Imo this tier list is very weird.
For example, it's weird to put Welt so low and Bronay so hight, since Welt was the one who gave the core to Bronya and the one who took it back by the time of APHO, which is implied by Carole saying "it's so cool to watch the herrscher fight", when talking about Welt, while saying absolutely nothing similar about Bronya. I think if in Welt's situation the herrscher core counts as some external source of power, then it should be the same for Bronya, so either Welt should be higher or Bronya should be lower. Same for otto probably.
And there are some other characters that are placed in a weird way.
Kiana is just so OD has every herrscher power and being able to control the imaginary tree which contains infinite universes is just BS in a way because her limit is basically non she can just tap dance and destroy universes at the rhythm she's dancing in
1 imaginary tree
2 will of honkai
3 Kiana hoty
4 Kevin
5 mei
In my opinion
Am I the only one who is confused why Welt is in the list. There are names from Star Rail, and only one real character from another game: Fischel, Genshin. And there are only few,ale characters
While I do agree that Mei (and Elysia) fits into God Tier, there's a problem
Her power, by all means, isn't equal to Kiana, not even close i fact.
Finality (That means, proper Goddess Fused-with-the-Cocoon Kiana), has all Herrscher powers (and by all, I means all we've seen, and those we haven't). Not just time and the 13 others.
Origin on the other hand, from a good bit of lore diving and theorizing, seems to be Conceptual Honkai Manipulation.
For example, do the Strings of Fate of the Cocoon count as Honkai? Origin can manipulate them. Do Herrschers count as Honkai? Origin can manipulate them. Honkai Energy? Same thing. (Tho, the feats here are mostly capable due to Elysia being the Authority given human form)
So while I'd put her in God Tier, saying Mei (and Elysia) is equal to Kiana is, not correct.
True, but I did say "even ground with Finality" but in editing I left a note saying "roughly" below it.
True, true
Like actually the Herrscher Of Origin/Human Ability/Authority Is Fate Manipulation
@@Zino_Kohiruimaki
Okay, one, no, the Authority isn't doesn't have the title Origin/Human, it's just Origin.
Two, no, it's not fate manipulation, if it was, then by all means, Previous Era would have won with zero difficulty and Elysia wouldn't have to die, straight up. Because good luck beating Fate. The only reason Elysia wasn't on the Strings of Fate was because she was escentially an Error in the cycle.
There's also the fact that it just, doesn't match up, sure Elysia has one feat of messing with the Strings of Fate, but as I said, what a good few lore guys came up with was the whole Conceptual Honkai Manipulation. Elysia is know for being the best Honkai manipulator (To the point she could beat Pre-MANTIS Kalpas with just pure skill). Pulling Authorities to them? Honkai Manipulation. Having a perfectly compatible body with Vipralopa beast? Honkai Manipulation (+being Herrscher). Helping Moth deal with PE Void? Honkai Manipulation.
But other than that? It was never, and I mean never stated it was Fate manipulation. Elysia outright didn't reveal shit, while basically saying "Figure it out yourselves~". And before you bring up anything said by Mei, one, even Mei doesn't know everything about her power (Hell, Senti seems to know more about the power), and two, she's known to be poetic, so anything she says is to be taken with a grain of salt and examined.
So no, it's not Fate manipulation
@@modacross4534 Like she actually Does Have Fate Manipulation it’s just that she didn’t know what her Herrscher Authority is especially about her being a Herrscher she just had a Feeling/Intuition of it so I don’t Blame Her To Be honest and maybe she didn’t have a Fate or more like had a fate of her own is because she was a Fate Manipulator and a Anomaly and I also know That the title Just is Origin but I added Human Because Elysias Humanity is what’s part of her Ego and also the Herrscher Of The Finality/End Has Control Over Concept/Concept Manipulation meaning the Herrscher Of The End/Finality Does Actually has a ability of a Respective Concept it has Control Over and actually also Has the Authority of Every Herrscher From Beyond the current era such as even Before the previous era and even the future Eras meaning The Past, Current And Future Eras Inluding the Total Concept Of Honkai Itself meaning the Herrscher Of The Finality can manipulate and control Honkai so it wouldn’t make sense that Elysia can do It despite being a part of Cocoon And Elysia being a Herrscher does have Extremely high Outstanding Honkai Adaptability and it was Stated especially in The Manga The Higher The Honkai Adaptability/Resistance the more the Person is able to Manipulate & Control Honkai which Elysia Has Especially Being A Herrscher And Having A Actual Herrscher Stigmata and it is stated that the Herrscher Of Origin/Humanity Power Is Equal To Herrscher Of Finally But not in Abilities And so of course Elysia would Defeat Exactly The Herrscher Of The Void with having no Experience and just learning To use its Powers/Abilities and because of Herrscher Of The Finality/End Having Control Over Concepts It Can Also Manipulate Fate Meaning If Elysia Did Remove The Threads Of Fate with sarcrifing Herself the Honkai would have just put It up back again so Which Meaning Elysia Sacrificing Herself would Remove The Threads Of Fate Entirely Permanently even if The Herrscher Of Finality Would try again To Restore the strings of Fate it would Automatically be Erased again on Autopilot By Authority Of Origin
Ok. Hear me out. Weakest to strongest Captainverse characters tier list.
This ranking is kind of wonky ngl. I don't see much point in separating gear from a character's kit, for one. Realistically, there is no way the God tier is occupied by anyone other than Kiana and Kevin. Finality's Authority is on a completely different level that it deserves its own tier. Lumping so many people in there is misleading, the gap between the lowest person in that tier (Kalpas) vs the highest two (Kaslanas) is like heaven and earth. I'd personally rank those last ones as Kiana (ending) > Kevin > Kiana (before ending) > Mei = Elysia = HoTr > Kalpas = Dudu
And if you care about feats of destruction carried out under their own power, literally nobody trounces Sirin, her Eruption was as close to an apocalyptic event as a single person was able to achieve in Part 1. No, project stigma wasn't done by Kevin alone and he didn't even conceive most of it himself, in case anyone wants to bring it up.
Also, I don't think PROMETHEUS is the Will of Honkai, at least not back then with Sirin's time. PROMETHEUS in the Salt Snow City arc of the main story says she has the strongest link to the Will of Honkai out of everyone there. If she really was the Will of Honkai, wouldn't it be more fitting for her to say that she IS the Will of Honkai? She has no reason to hide that from Seele and the others, as they are Valkyries, and therefore, are very familiar with Honkai in general. Saying that she's IS the Will of Honkai only for saying she has the strongest link to the Will of Honkai, is like saying Haniwa clay figures being buried with the dead makes them corpses of those people who died they are buried with, it's just not logical, and I'm a strong follower of logic and reasonable thinking.
I haven't done the new chapter but if the Prometheus who came with hare say that then Prometheus is the will of honkai.That Prometheus is not Prometheus from the previous era.Just like how fallen rosemary and Rita are different those two are also different.The Prometheus from previous era is the will of honkai.The Prometheus in story is another version of her that hare save from the destroyed bubble universe
TIERLISTS BAAAAABY
MORE TIERLISTS MOOOOOOOORE
I love kalapass
Raven snipeing edit made me laugh so hard she's be that one cod player who camps in the corner with a sniper 😂
A TIER LIST?!?!? D:
Pardo tanked the full power of kevin for some time...what do you mean you are not sure if she can kill a random honkai beast🥲
18:16 in a fight, right?
By law, yes.
Let me be the outlaw and say with that stamina i think he can take all of the flamechaser by himself
Characters in ggz could be more strongest.
But Welt has the strongest normal herrscher, in term of feats...
No APHO love, sad
(Fun video though 👍)
Hold on, what about captain? What tier do you think he is?
I heard some of these characters can be scaled up to high complex multiversal or higher. Is that true?
"Higher beings beyond comprehension" is what you could describe them as. Like Kiana with full Finality.
@@PotatoAlmanac so how strong are they really?
@@Artwolf007 So far Hyperversal is the baseline scaling for herrschers and anyone within that tier
@@Ilikegames804 well damn. I heard that they were strong,but not "solo your favorite verse" strong.
There is solid proof of HI3 highest tiers(Kevin, main Trio, Captains, HotE, and some others) being scalable to Outerversal/1A.
I keep hearing how Elysia is on par with Finality and I just don't buy that. Both the origin and Elysia where ultimately creations of Finality, and even with Elysia fighting along side the Flamechasers Humanity was still mostly wiped out before Finality even showed up. Elysia seems to be decently powerful for sure, but still far behind the power of Finality, she just has an odd quirk that allows her to overcome Finality's influence.
By the way, the question is, why is the sakura not god, because it has a draw with the kalpas?
I thought you're going to split the god tier again (probably just because there's too much in god tier lol)
That aside, i still want to know durandal's full potential.... She's definitely stronger than the base herrscher trio
Like actually yeah Sirin should be in “God” Tier since she is half of the Herrscher Of The Finality/End due to having 6 Herrscher Cores/Gems meaning she would be stronger than Mei And Bronya at least and also The Herrscher Of The Finality/End Ability/Authority Is Control Over Concepts meaning that the Herrscher Of Finality has the Ability/Authority of actually any Herrscher Regardless of its era from the current era and other eras even before the previous era and even from the future eras and the Herrscher Of The Finality just happens to use the authority Of Time just to actually Reset Time every time it fails to “Embrace” humanity And Also Actually correctly Space-Time is Really what the Universe is made up of
18:37 which character broo
I barely follow the lore but even I know this tier list is giga-bad.
Every Herrscher from PE was miles stronger than their counterparts in CE, meaning that flame-chasers, at least the top 5, are literally tier above everyone else, except maybe Finality Kiana.
Senti having Fu-Hua's body also puts her at similar level to them.
That's right. Most flamechasers is pretty much at the top. But really, we have seen the PE herrshers, especially the trio going way over what you see in PE. Finality is a no brainer. But in lore, origin was roughly on the same level as finality and even truth is far above what was seen back then. So, I'd say it's fair.
That's not really true, because not all Flame-Chasers fought against Herrschers.
Also for some reason he's excluding weapons from their strengths.
The CE Herrschers arent stated to be weaker, they are diferent in nature and in acting, like the PE herrschers where killing machines that wanted only to destroy humanity, but CE herrschers thanks to Ellie retained some of their humanity and some even obtained control of their powers, but tecnically they are the same and CE are even better that PE (depends on the situation), but you cant compare one human fully adapted to its power and some human who obtained power and have to undestand it, like when Kivin said Mei could do all what the PE HoT could do and maybe more but she was still undestanding her autority, and even more no all the herrschers are really powerfull its the circunstance of their birth like the Legion Herscher of PE wasnt powerfull but had numbers, and now the HOD had numbers and was adapted to steal powers from some other herrschers (who didnt have fully control), Senti is one example as she was born and had almost full control of her power thats why she was so strong but she was handicaping herself due to the who Iam problem she had
"Every Herrscher from PE was miles stronger than their counterparts in CE."
This statement is completely untrue. CE Void, Dominance, and Sentience are superior to their PE counterparts. Also, Honkai's invasion force gets stronger in response to civilization's strength. CE has Herrschers, Divine Keys, and a few surviving Flame-Chasers on its side far earlier than PE. Honkai responded to the current era's strength with earlier Judgement class Honkai Beasts to fight the elevated humanity and stronger Herrschers to fight humanity's Herrschers.
What about Herrscher of Rebirth? Shouldn't she stand in S tier?
video was probably made before horb (as in the script) and was uploaded later
He literally said the tier list is everything excluding the ones before moon arc
Teri teri (not normal theresa) strongest
imo you shouldn't remove the weapon from a character's strength. It's not like they never carry around their weapons...
Also for Fu Hua, didn't Fu Hua say that she did deliberately lose to Sushang?
Also we do know Sushang's capabilities. Durandal (I think? Maybe it was Rita or Kiana. One of the Valkyries) was surprised at how strong she was for her rank. Which I would say puts her at kinda in between the power level of an A rank or S rank Valk, so probably D tier in this tier list
And Durandal definitely isn't God-tier.
Never heard that about Hua. That would mean she's intent on sabotaging Kiana, leaving her to fight Otto alone which is out of character for her. If she did say that herself, it kinda sound like she's trying to save face if anything.
My reasoing for the weapons was that if they were included in their strengths from the start, things will get really muddy when multiple characters had the same weapon as their personal one like the Shamash. Or even battlesuits like in Himeko's, where she threw the divine key suit on to beat HoV which would be unfair to include.
That's why I went back and redid the list.
Yes they're strong, but are they stronger than GGZ/HG2 characters and feats.
Nah bro GGZ clears honkai impact neg diff
กลับมาแล้ว!!!!!!
i didnt play hi3 or anything but Welt that can create anything is weaker than a girl that creates stuff manually ?
Nowadays, he really can't do anything to that degree anymore.
The core of reason broke him and he didn’t get the core in full potential because he is a a lot weaker than bronya I mean there’s no more explanation than this
then wouldnt it have been better to make a tier list aboutt he characters in their prime if they fall off that badly after a fight
@@PotatoAlmanac
simple.
YATTA.
add 2 more in god tier namely vita and HoRB
Vita isn’t that strong the strong one is Sa btw
did vita not say she stole as much authority as possible so she is equal to Sa apart from the power to make roots and change the universes rules?@@Mush_strawberry
Wait why is the tag honkaistarrail?
Pretend you saw nothing.