TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro 6:20 RUC COLLUSION w/ UDA 10:10 Why join UDA not UVF 15:05 How were catholic families intimidated out ? 16:55 How did graham feel about his UDA activities at the time? 18:00 Does Graham identify as British ? 21:45 Ian Paisley 27:15 How did he view the UVF ? 29:10 Any respect for the IRA ? 31:25 Would Graham have known the main hitmen in the UDA ? 35:45 Women in the UDA 37:50 Dual membership UDA/UDR 39:35 Living in England
Very candid interview. It was interesting to hear how Graham's views changed across the course of his life as his life experiences gave him new insights into his own thinking. The only way we get to understand each other is through these conversations. Recording these historic experiences is very important work. Well done to both of you.
I have to hold my hands up I think I had been putting this one off for a while, only because I just assumed that I was going to disagree with what Graham was going to say, I was hooked from the Van Morrison and Huricane Higgins references, I am also a Bob Dylan obsessive, just shows the amount shared interests that make zero diference what side, "of the fence," you're from. Love the honesty and openes to change. Men like this are the people who will decide when Ireland is united, it almost has to come from the "Irish Loyalist," for peace to be maintained in the 6 counties. Not to mention the South accepting Irish Nationalists from the north. Another fascinating listen, these stories are so important for the future. Thanks again John, go raith mile me agat
Yeah. And the Protestant people, as a Catholic myself, must be treated absolutely as equals and under no circumstances should they be put through what we went through
@@chanratt You are spot on. It's a very rational fear for the protestant people, I imagine. That's the type of trust that can only be built through intergrated schools.
John I couldn't find your e-mail to contact you but a great topic for one of your podcasts would be the whole March 1988 series of events. Starting with the execution of the 3 IRA Vols in Gibraltar their bodies being returned for burial in Belfast then the burials coming under grenade&gun attack in Milltown cemetery by loyalist Michael Stone which claimed 3 lives. Three days later at the funeral of one of the cemetery victims an unmarked car with two undercover soldiers careered into the funeral cortege and with no escape were apprehended by mourners who thought it was another loyalist attack on a Republican funeral. These two men were executed when it was discovered they were undercover soldiers. It was a very violent time in the conflict and was all captured by camera crews a lot of unanswered questions remain to this day about the period. A good docu to give you an insight is titled the Funeral Murders. It would make a fascinating podcast.
I believe those two unfortunates (Corprals) were sent , quite deliberately, to their doom by very senior figures. Corprals Woods and Howe ,believing themselves to be part of a large surveillance operation, from which , if compromised , they could reasonably expect to be safely extracted. As productive as the previous two weeks had been for the British militarily, in PR terms , the fact that republicans were at a huge disadvantage, fighting, or rather, under attack on several different fronts and with , awkward questions surrounding events in Milltown in the glare of the world's press cameras. Something was required to offset this , impression, a Biggie. The presence of flashbangs and non military hairstyles would point away from a standard A to B journey and no-one in Ireland, let alone Belfast , could have failed to be aware of the potential. As the expression goes , the dogs in the street, not only knew , but knew also ,to steer clear.
@@jamesoneill2933 So what would the army hope to achieve by sending two Royal Signals into an PIRA funeral armed with only Browning pistols, no escape route & no obvious goal? The world's cameras were there, are you & other PIRA supporters saying that corporal Wood & corporal Howes were intent on killing people in broad daylight in front of the world's press & then just driving off unharmed? This nonsense keeps getting peddled by so many, including the ludicrous claims they were SAS operatives, as if the SAS would have no plan, be so passive & underarmed? Unbelievable & pure wishful thinking! The facts are that corporal Wood just got it wrong, he obviously knew the area to a reasonable extent & decided, or they both decided, to have a look around the forbidden area, a massive blunder of course. However, they did not go in with guns blazing or anything remotely like it, corporal Wood just clearly panicked & should have concentrated on getting the car out of there instead of just giving up. They were trying to get away before any gun was produced, I didn't see a gun with corporal Howes. They were prevented from exiting & that was obvious before a gun was seen or produced. Their method of death was truly appalling & perverted, removing their clothes & publicly subjecting them to intense violence & humiliation. If anyone can tell me how that advanced Irish unity then I am all ears, it did far more to divide than unify & coming close to forty years later unity is not close irrespective of demographics. The people responsible for that atrocious behaviour that day will receive their karma, some already have, I wouldn't want to go to my death with what they did in my soul. Dreadful people.
@@jamesoneill2933 I agree with everything you just said I think them two unfortunate men were sacrificial lambs to offset the allegations of collusion in Milltown cemetery a few days prior. You are spot on the two lads didn't have military issue hairstyles and the flash bangs in their unmarked car. This funeral was very high profile to regular army units thast area i would imagine would have been OOB. It was global news so they didn't just get lost I believe also they were part of a wider surveillance op and were intentionally left to die when they became caught in the cortege. I read that there the heli teli live footage was being beamed to woodbourne base the RUC were ready to make their way to Andytown road but were ordered not to and stood down the cops said they could have probably saved them. Something we'll never know happened that day. It was an awful chain of events the whole week
@@discobiscuit482 Of course, the conflict is , sadly replete with instances ,where both combatants and civilians were , sacrificed, or , murdered, for political expediency. There must have been some sense of disquiet at certain levels within the security services, which I believe culminated with events at the Mull of Kintyre, much as I wanted to believe that to have been an act of God , it had internal housekeeping, written all over it. Or as was said of the Corprals, Showboating, morphed into , Pilot error.
@@discobiscuit482 I vaguely recall having heard how there was disquiet among former colleagues of the two Corprals , as the then Secretary of State for N.I had given their parents, assurances ,that a satisfactory explanation would be forthcoming of that day , of course, it never happened and I imagine their colleagues were simply told to forget about it.
The Shoukri brothers who had an Egyptian dad from Africa certainly were welcomed in the Loyalist area they grew up in. There are probably other examples of non-white, mixed ethnicity Loyalists and the U.V.F/P.U.P.'s especially had a downer on fascists from the mainland trying to woo those in their communities to race based ideas. The last series of Blue Lights touched on this with new Loyalist leader Lee Thompson taking over the estate and delivering a banishing order to Keith the Nazi with his 'Combat 18' tattoo and henchman of deposed rival Jim Dixon. He was berated in the process for his white supremacist views.
@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266😂😂😂 you balloon ,they've been targeting foreign nationals now they can't threaten Catholics anymore !!! Lower finaghy etc FFS belvoir estate you're as big a liar as these fools talking are.
Google black loyalists pal seeing this will make you feel better ,the North is safer for minorities than the South if you've been watching the news mate .
I sarved in n.ireland during the troubles and was based at a number of army facilities across n.ireland . It was common knowledge even then. That NCOs in the RIR were involved with loyalist paramilitary groups and supplying information about Catholics searving in the security forces to both loyalist and republican paramilitary organisations
My uncle was murdered in east Belfast 1972 ,total innocent catholic,the loyalist that killed him was in fact not just a member of the UDA but a serving British soldier and British agent for Mi5/FRU,his name “Ginger Albert baker” be interesting if Graham new him or anything about the murder.?
Graham, a temporary power in government, should never force you to turn your back on your nationality? I'm an Ulster British citizen, regardless of anything...
American here. I’m curious about how loyalists see the South. Do they have a similar detachment that republicans have for England, like nothing-personal-we-just-don’t-like-your-government? Or- is it more vitriolic than that?
Thank you. Great interview. I was actually in Belfast for a day 20 years ago during a 2-week Irish holiday with my wife. Best wishes for your continuing good health. Graham.
I must say he's due to be heard as he's ill and yet...I am certain Paisley & loss of his father at 39...(how? I missed that) he as a teen joined the Red Hand and has the mentality of the usual compartmentalization and attitude of inherent superiority which...John...idk how you kept your cool. You did very well. #IrishFreedom 🇮🇪🇺🇸
Most of us English was only told one side of the Troubles story THE UK GOVERNMENT sided story but we do understood if ANYONE who try to rule our land take away our basic rights jobs by a Empire or a Aristocracy monarchy the richest, most powerful, best-educated, or best-trained group in a society, That is who paramilitary groups should have gone for not your own the people was the key to winning not bombings and guns that fuels the hate you kill one and then 5 join against you. What did the ending look like yes peace happen but still no Irish reunification and your leaders once for the course saw the gunmen had to go behind close doors deals got done but at what cost?what is the lesser evil drug gang killings or paramilitary groups law an order
Im from your generation ...and i know where your coming from...It was,nt worth 1 life , none of it ...A legacy of empty chairs and broken hearts , and for what ? ../ and any fool who believes different is deluded
All I hear out of your mouth is collusion collusion collusion. The guards colluded as well so stop playing the o us poor Republican victims cards what happened was awful on all sides hence why I have no religion now. I was raised in a protestant household but we we're all subjected to these horrendous acts of violence. No doubt there was help from the security forces but there was also south of the border somthing you neglect to even mention. We all need to move on and learn to love one another. I don't want my children having to see dead bodies on the streets bloen to bits by bombs or shot up. It's clear what you are doing and where your loyalties ly your a provo sympathiser. They way the catholic community was treated was appalling but you keep going on about6this collusion on the loyalist side it happened on both sides. This man done fa fled to England so how does he know exactly what happened he wasn't privy to that information.
@ciaranbrown324 The UDA wouldn't have had ,informers, in the same sense as the IRA , the UDA organisation was effectively , ran , by the British ,which largely negated the need for the same level of infiltration , as militant republicanism. The day to day dynamics dictated that it was , a given that Billy (UDA), would talk to Cedric (RUC) over the garden fence regarding , events ,who then would tell Trevor (UDR) at a Lodge meeting, that Lesley (Prison service) +UDA used Davy's (RUCR) gun to shoot X. Thus , having delegated the overall direction of travel initially , the British government was thus now fully aware of the fine detail. Subsequently the only time arrests were carried out was to seed their assets and agents in the relevant positions.
@@jamesoneill2933the Uda where ALL informers ffs the Brits even told that ,they didn't even have to pay them ffs ,they felt free from prosecution to slabber as much as the like ,f--k head Adair being the classic example , telling the peelers what they were gonna do FFS.
Dont forget.. " i dont care what anybody says, Morrison ees 1 o the nicest guys yill ever meet "... my man here dosent have much of an idea. "Shooting each other and silly childish things" !!!! 😮😅... only in Belfast.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
6:20 RUC COLLUSION w/ UDA
10:10 Why join UDA not UVF
15:05 How were catholic families intimidated out ?
16:55 How did graham feel about his UDA activities at the time?
18:00 Does Graham identify as British ?
21:45 Ian Paisley
27:15 How did he view the UVF ?
29:10 Any respect for the IRA ?
31:25 Would Graham have known the main hitmen in the UDA ?
35:45 Women in the UDA
37:50 Dual membership UDA/UDR
39:35 Living in England
Full respect to you man
You speck for a lot on both sides. Cant wait until we can share our communities by working together. Goodbye sectarianism
Agreed sir
That is Britain's worst nightmare.
Very candid interview. It was interesting to hear how Graham's views changed across the course of his life as his life experiences gave him new insights into his own thinking. The only way we get to understand each other is through these conversations. Recording these historic experiences is very important work. Well done to both of you.
A fascinating interview and much respect to you Graham for fronting in the following chat
I know Graham very well we meet in the 80s never had any problems, good pal my neighbour god bless you
Great man. Says it like it is. He's real.
I have to hold my hands up I think I had been putting this one off for a while, only because I just assumed that I was going to disagree with what Graham was going to say, I was hooked from the Van Morrison and Huricane Higgins references, I am also a Bob Dylan obsessive, just shows the amount shared interests that make zero diference what side, "of the fence," you're from. Love the honesty and openes to change. Men like this are the people who will decide when Ireland is united, it almost has to come from the "Irish Loyalist," for peace to be maintained in the 6 counties. Not to mention the South accepting Irish Nationalists from the north. Another fascinating listen, these stories are so important for the future. Thanks again John, go raith mile me agat
Yeah. And the Protestant people, as a Catholic myself, must be treated absolutely as equals and under no circumstances should they be put through what we went through
@@chanratt You are spot on. It's a very rational fear for the protestant people, I imagine. That's the type of trust that can only be built through intergrated schools.
Hope you are feeling better soon 🇮🇪
Thank you
Fascinating interview again.
John I couldn't find your e-mail to contact you but a great topic for one of your podcasts would be the whole March 1988 series of events.
Starting with the execution of the 3 IRA Vols in Gibraltar their bodies being returned for burial in Belfast then the burials coming under grenade&gun attack in Milltown cemetery by loyalist Michael Stone which claimed 3 lives.
Three days later at the funeral of one of the cemetery victims an unmarked car with two undercover soldiers careered into the funeral cortege and with no escape were apprehended by mourners who thought it was another loyalist attack on a Republican funeral.
These two men were executed when it was discovered they were undercover soldiers.
It was a very violent time in the conflict and was all captured by camera crews a lot of unanswered questions remain to this day about the period.
A good docu to give you an insight is titled the Funeral Murders.
It would make a fascinating podcast.
I believe those two unfortunates (Corprals) were sent , quite deliberately, to their doom by very senior figures. Corprals Woods and Howe ,believing themselves to be part of a large surveillance operation, from which , if compromised , they could reasonably expect to be safely extracted.
As productive as the previous two weeks had been for the British militarily, in PR terms , the fact that republicans were at a huge disadvantage, fighting, or rather, under attack on several different fronts and with , awkward questions surrounding events in Milltown in the glare of the world's press cameras.
Something was required to offset this , impression, a Biggie.
The presence of flashbangs and non military hairstyles would point away from a standard A to B journey and no-one in Ireland, let alone Belfast , could have failed to be aware of the potential.
As the expression goes , the dogs in the street, not only knew , but knew also ,to steer clear.
@@jamesoneill2933 So what would the army hope to achieve by sending two Royal Signals into an PIRA funeral armed with only Browning pistols, no escape route & no obvious goal? The world's cameras were there, are you & other PIRA supporters saying that corporal Wood & corporal Howes were intent on killing people in broad daylight in front of the world's press & then just driving off unharmed? This nonsense keeps getting peddled by so many, including the ludicrous claims they were SAS operatives, as if the SAS would have no plan, be so passive & underarmed? Unbelievable & pure wishful thinking!
The facts are that corporal Wood just got it wrong, he obviously knew the area to a reasonable extent & decided, or they both decided, to have a look around the forbidden area, a massive blunder of course. However, they did not go in with guns blazing or anything remotely like it, corporal Wood just clearly panicked & should have concentrated on getting the car out of there instead of just giving up. They were trying to get away before any gun was produced, I didn't see a gun with corporal Howes. They were prevented from exiting & that was obvious before a gun was seen or produced. Their method of death was truly appalling & perverted, removing their clothes & publicly subjecting them to intense violence & humiliation. If anyone can tell me how that advanced Irish unity then I am all ears, it did far more to divide than unify & coming close to forty years later unity is not close irrespective of demographics. The people responsible for that atrocious behaviour that day will receive their karma, some already have, I wouldn't want to go to my death with what they did in my soul. Dreadful people.
@@jamesoneill2933 I agree with everything you just said I think them two unfortunate men were sacrificial lambs to offset the allegations of collusion in Milltown cemetery a few days prior.
You are spot on the two lads didn't have military issue hairstyles and the flash bangs in their unmarked car.
This funeral was very high profile to regular army units thast area i would imagine would have been OOB.
It was global news so they didn't just get lost I believe also they were part of a wider surveillance op and were intentionally left to die when they became caught in the cortege. I read that there the heli teli live footage was being beamed to woodbourne base the RUC were ready to make their way to Andytown road but were ordered not to and stood down the cops said they could have probably saved them.
Something we'll never know happened that day.
It was an awful chain of events the whole week
@@discobiscuit482 Of course, the conflict is , sadly replete with instances ,where both combatants and civilians were , sacrificed, or , murdered, for political expediency.
There must have been some sense of disquiet at certain levels within the security services, which I believe culminated with events at the Mull of Kintyre, much as I wanted to believe that to have been an act of God , it had internal housekeeping, written all over it.
Or as was said of the Corprals, Showboating, morphed into , Pilot error.
@@discobiscuit482 I vaguely recall having heard how there was disquiet among former colleagues of the two Corprals , as the then Secretary of State for N.I had given their parents, assurances ,that a satisfactory explanation would be forthcoming of that day , of course, it never happened and I imagine their colleagues were simply told to forget about it.
Really interesting interview, if his wife is from Africa, sadly she would not be welcomed in a Loyalist area, even today.
The Shoukri brothers who had an Egyptian dad from Africa certainly were welcomed in the Loyalist area they grew up in. There are probably other examples of non-white, mixed ethnicity Loyalists and the U.V.F/P.U.P.'s especially had a downer on fascists from the mainland trying to woo those in their communities to race based ideas. The last series of Blue Lights touched on this with new Loyalist leader Lee Thompson taking over the estate and delivering a banishing order to Keith the Nazi with his 'Combat 18' tattoo and henchman of deposed rival Jim Dixon. He was berated in the process for his white supremacist views.
@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266😂😂😂 you balloon ,they've been targeting foreign nationals now they can't threaten Catholics anymore !!! Lower finaghy etc FFS belvoir estate you're as big a liar as these fools talking are.
Africans aren’t welcome in Dublin by some so stop trying to point score .
Google black loyalists pal seeing this will make you feel better ,the North is safer for minorities than the South if you've been watching the news mate .
Immigration and asylum are a bigger threat to the future of northern ireland than republicanism ever was@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266
This poor man has pain and suffering written all over him. I wish good health and peace.
I sarved in n.ireland during the troubles and was based at a number of army facilities across n.ireland . It was common knowledge even then. That NCOs in the RIR were involved with loyalist paramilitary groups and supplying information about Catholics searving in the security forces to both loyalist and republican paramilitary organisations
My god you don't realise how people from belfast are effected by the troubles, until you watch these interviews. Sad really.
My uncle was murdered in east Belfast 1972 ,total innocent catholic,the loyalist that killed him was in fact not just a member of the UDA but a serving British soldier and British agent for Mi5/FRU,his name “Ginger Albert baker” be interesting if Graham new him or anything about the murder.?
I knew him but not well and I very sorry about your uncle
@@grahamcousins3243You knew Baker ?
@@jamesoneill2933 only threw name not a nice guy
New
@@grahamcousins3243was he known as rusty to his friends
Working class people ,killing working class people 😢 .
The war ended 25 years ago just in case you didn’t notice
Good stuff mate well done
Thanks I’m a rangers fan but my mates are all Celtic fans
That was a terrible week 😢
Ulster is 9 counties not 6 🇮🇪
Graham, a temporary power in government, should never force you to turn your back on your nationality? I'm an Ulster British citizen, regardless of anything...
You are a Northern Ireland citizen.Not Ulster 🇮🇪
I’m an Irish Ulster man and I’m not to excited about your views but your entitled to them
You’re a British subject living in Ireland. End of
@@shanenolan5275 I’m Irish not British who shit all over there own people
I live in England
Did he say the IRA had over 250 informers
American here. I’m curious about how loyalists see the South. Do they have a similar detachment that republicans have for England, like nothing-personal-we-just-don’t-like-your-government? Or- is it more vitriolic than that?
I like the south lovely people English people great it the government that’s gangsters
Thank you. Great interview. I was actually in Belfast for a day 20 years ago during a 2-week Irish holiday with my wife.
Best wishes for your continuing good health. Graham.
@@sophiesdad1200 thank you
Both tribes where used by politicians and government we are brothers different branches of the same tree.🇮🇪 EIRE 32
@@patkearney9320 sorry totally agree pat hope your well
He made a few interesting points
Well done mate yes I'm ashamed of Kingsmill you Spoke well .let the nay sayers go fuck
I must say he's due to be heard as he's ill and yet...I am certain Paisley & loss of his father at 39...(how? I missed that) he as a teen joined the Red Hand and has the mentality of the usual compartmentalization and attitude of inherent superiority which...John...idk how you kept your cool. You did very well. #IrishFreedom
🇮🇪🇺🇸
Was never in red hand and I don’t fall for this nonsense from someone who’s never met me, have a nice night
I want catholics to be equal with Protestants
My dad died off cancer, thank you.
Yes I new him but not well
And very sorry about your uncle too
Met him once I think
Didn't think of yer average UDA guy as a Bob Dylan fan
Most of us English was only told one side of the Troubles story THE UK GOVERNMENT sided story but we do understood if ANYONE who
try to rule our land take away our basic rights jobs by a Empire or a Aristocracy monarchy the richest, most powerful, best-educated, or best-trained group in a society, That is who paramilitary groups should have gone for not your own the people was the key to winning not bombings and guns that fuels the hate you kill one and then 5 join against you. What did the ending look like yes peace happen but still no
Irish reunification and your leaders once for the course saw the gunmen had to go behind close doors deals got done but at what cost?what is the lesser evil drug gang killings or paramilitary groups law an order
Poor man's face is falling down.
Aren't you the one thats teamed up with Packy McMahon?
What a combination. Trying to cash in. Sad state of affairs
Not a penny was taken, thank you
That’s me. He’s a mate now are bigotry gone
For your info you troll all monies from the book ill be donating to a cross community charge ballbeg
Im from your generation ...and i know where your coming from...It was,nt worth 1 life , none of it ...A legacy of empty chairs and broken hearts , and for what ? ../ and any fool who believes different is deluded
He is not affected because he did absolutely fa embarrassing podcast
Ye are scraping the barrel now with these last two interviews , this one doesn’t even know what he is…
Brilliant, I love trolls there great
Bet you never done a tap during the war you troll
@@grahamcousins3243 is a troll a regular viewer, who follows the channel, but has an opinion, This was embarrassing, and unwatchable.
I won’t loss any sleep over your veiws, you seem to know me well troll
The book will sell well first of its kind you sir I pray for you bigot
All I hear out of your mouth is collusion collusion collusion. The guards colluded as well so stop playing the o us poor Republican victims cards what happened was awful on all sides hence why I have no religion now. I was raised in a protestant household but we we're all subjected to these horrendous acts of violence. No doubt there was help from the security forces but there was also south of the border somthing you neglect to even mention. We all need to move on and learn to love one another. I don't want my children having to see dead bodies on the streets bloen to bits by bombs or shot up. It's clear what you are doing and where your loyalties ly your a provo sympathiser. They way the catholic community was treated was appalling but you keep going on about6this collusion on the loyalist side it happened on both sides. This man done fa fled to England so how does he know exactly what happened he wasn't privy to that information.
Full of bullshit they just hate . What's new, did you live in a cardboard box
Take care
Sorry mate uda was the worst for informers.
Rubbish, check facts
@ciaranbrown324 The UDA wouldn't have had ,informers, in the same sense as the IRA , the UDA organisation was effectively , ran , by the British ,which largely negated the need for the same level of infiltration , as militant republicanism.
The day to day dynamics dictated that it was , a given that Billy (UDA), would talk to Cedric (RUC) over the garden fence regarding , events ,who then would tell Trevor (UDR) at a Lodge meeting, that Lesley (Prison service) +UDA used Davy's (RUCR) gun to shoot X.
Thus , having delegated the overall direction of travel initially , the British government was thus now fully aware of the fine detail.
Subsequently the only time arrests were carried out was to seed their assets and agents in the relevant positions.
@@jamesoneill2933 that’s the best one I’ve heard yet, well done
@@jamesoneill2933the Uda where ALL informers ffs the Brits even told that ,they didn't even have to pay them ffs ,they felt free from prosecution to slabber as much as the like ,f--k head Adair being the classic example , telling the peelers what they were gonna do FFS.
Best one I’ve heard yet I would make a doctors appointment if I were you, take care
Dont forget.. " i dont care what anybody says, Morrison ees 1 o the nicest guys yill ever meet "... my man here dosent have much of an idea.
"Shooting each other and silly childish things" !!!! 😮😅... only in Belfast.
Full of bullshit they just hate . What's new, did you live in a cardboard box
Yes a large one from the supermarket
The UDA were made "legal" remember.... a legal organisation.... this man was part of a statesponsored loyalist sectarian murder gang.