Thank you for your time & attention :) Full video notes with calibrated questions here: www.newelofknowledge.com/letters/why-venting-never-works-dealing-with-ventors-death-7-mins-read See you in the next one! Lew
I disagree that venting is always bad. Over-venting is always bad, a little bit of venting can keep someone from committing horrible acts sometimes you never really know. What never helps is droning on about something you cant do or don't like simply because you think everyone would love to hear about it, the newsflash for some people is that most people dont want to hear more than 10 seconds of anything like that. Just sum up your thoughts and move on, it's narcissistic to act like some main character that everyone must stop and support everytime you stub your toe on that one coffee table.
yeah I imagined a cat for 20 seconds. He didn't say think of a picture of a cat. So my cat walked around and I imagined it from different perspectives, but I did imagine a "cat for 20 seconds"...
i thought about his kinda messy food place and his usual walking arrows throughout the house. And the annoyingly small difference between a storming down the stairs for greeting and storming down the stairs for the plz lemme out thing AND the storming down the stairs for just awaiting someone/yearning AND the haha nope curving away and further down into the basement kinda bored thing he does
@@nostalji93 yeah, you did imagine a cat for 20 sec, but not "just a cat". You didn't keep the abstract of a cat in your head alone, did you? I bet the cat had a color or a mix of a few, you've created the whole environment for your cat to walk around, and you've switched angles. NOK said "just a cat", but your brain added more details. For some who love and have/had cats brain added details from their past. And this was the point, IMHO.
this reminds me of Berne's transactional analysis - parent-adult-child. like when someone vents, they may speak from their "Child" mode, perhaps to seek care from a "Parent." so an effective approach might be to offer empathy (providing care to their "Child") and then redirect the interaction to an Adult-Adult level by engaging their rational side.
Dang, in our circles, we don’t start by giving advice. We just let them vent. Then we take turns listening to each other. Hearing sob stories and showing empathy but also expressing logic has helped us. I’ve helped a few friends out of hard situations by giving them ideas and perspectives maybe I’ve seen firsthand. I’ve even solved my own problems by venting and then having the other perspectives given to me. Are we the only ones? Edit: isn’t seeing a therapist basically venting about things that bother you and finding out why they bother you? Solving problems you don’t even know that you have? Also I DID write this before I watched the whole video 😅
I also do this within my closest friend group. It has helped many of us tremendously, it even works better than therapy, because sometimes we know our friends better and can signal them and give another perspective on a problem.
15 днів тому+21
It's the social gathering that does you good. If you'd all go and play darts instead you'd get roughly the same results. And no, seeing a therapist is not about venting at all. It does often start with venting, because mud needs to leave the tube sometimes, but after that it's about identifying the patterns that lead to the need to vent, so to say, in order to prevent it altogether :p
Hopefully, you'll never meet a person who makes you dislike it :D I know a person, who's venting a few times a week to my friend, often about the same problem, and never makes a step towards resolving it. My friend hates it, but it's her mother, and she vents to me about it, or... used to. We stopped seeing each other after that.
@pavloshtefanesku5109 if they do that they are just stuck in a loop, listen for a second then switch topics, they normally will start flowing there thoughts somewhere else. If you are a good friend you listen while redirecting you don't need to take the energy into you.
There's a fundamental difference between sharing your thoughts and feeling online, as in the two studies linked, and sharing them privately with someone you trust, daring to be vulnerable in their presence, and feeling seen and understood by that person. The former is useless, as the papers rightfully conclude, but the latter can be incredibly cathartic.
The second half of the talk is about how to be that person who sees and understands, but it's all about the surface level, i.e. how to act and what to say. What's more important is what you feel and what you make them feel. It's also a lot simpler to remember than all of that. Feel their need for connection, feel that you're their safe harbor where they can be vulnerable without fear, and cherish the trust they show you by allowing themselves to be seen by you in this state. On top of this emotional foundation, asking the questions and using the techniques outlined feels natural and right. You're not manipulating, you're not using secret tricks that you're hiding from them - you're leading them to an emotionally better place.
Thank you. I now understand how I get it so wrong when my daughter is venting to me. I will be practicing on myself first to learn the technique.If only I had known these techniques earlier in my life!
That's genuinely so sweet that you thought of how you can better communicate with your daughter. It seems like many parents are just dismissive and unwilling to learn. You surely have a lovely soul.
I needed to talk and vent out my grief, it made me physically ill to hold it in but I didn’t have accepting people to talk to. I got a therapist and went to grief groups and it felt safe to speak it out and actually receive helpful feedback on how to overcome it. Most people give bad advice or don’t respond the way we want them to, it can keep us stuck. I just listen to people now without giving much advice at all because it is a waste of energy. Some people just wanna keep bringing up the past and why life isn’t working out, not have actual solutions. Great video.
I think unless you’re a professional of some sort (doctor, therapist, financial adviser, lawyer), you should NEVER start with where YOU want to lead them. If they are coming to you in distress, you should find out (or help them find out) what THEY want. If I had a friend or family member, and I’ve had my share, who is leading me towards what they want me to do, it never helps, and has over time led to broken relationships. It’s hubris to think we know better than the other person what they need or want.
Truth. I've found that when I listen to someone vent long enough, many times they come up with ideas of what they should do on their own. I don't really have to say anything.
100%. Fantastic point. I've been going through a lot lately, and the ones who have helped me are those who helped me figure out what I need, as opposed to others who thought I needed this or that. Thank you for pointing this out 😊
@@requinremembers Totally agree! You just laid out what I believe is the main benefit of venting. Giving the distressed person an avenue to release the pressure, achieve clarity in the process, and potentially identify themselves what they need to do😊
@@tjjavier Thanks, glad you agree! I do think it requires a certain amount of introspection, etc for a venting person to be able to do that. Some people vent just for attention, or to hear themselves talk..in those cases they probably won't come to the right conclusions. But the 'right' person (maybe that's the person who really does want answers, somehow) can often untangle the knot easier by talking it out. :)
I've actually never been there, that I remember of (wanting for the person to stop venting). I like to listen and let the person vent if they feel like expressing that. Certainly has helped me, I'm sure it has helped others as well. Nothing wrong with just showing validation and empathy without actively searching for solution. If it leads to unnecessary rumination of anxiety and pain, then sure there's better ways. But I don't think it's always going to lead to ruminating or negative loop. It's more about experiencing, practicing and expressing emotions, such as anger, in a healthy manner, and the other person being present with you. So I'll respectfully disagree on it always being a bad thing.
If you know how to listen, the other person's venting won't turn into a negative loop. If you are being smart, on the other hand...venting becomes the enemy. I think it is offensive to assume that the other person can't fix their problems and it is us they need for guidance. The whole premise of this video is offensive.
Agree. It's not always a bad thing. The loop can be cut off in the moment, when we gain understanding of what happened and why it happened. Sometimes venting might help with it. I experienced situation that stressed me, I was able to vent to someone who shared empathy and understanding, but also at the same time he/she saw the situation from another perspective and actually showed it to me, so I can really understand what happened and why. That really does calm my emotions and solves my cognitive needs, rather than only burning me again. If I'm venting to someone and I can see he/she does not listen to me, or just shows bland empathy, throwing at me pointless and empty phrases like "oh, I'm so sorry, that must suck", I don't vent anymore, seeing that it has no positive outcome and there's no point of doing it. If we look at it from the other side, the other person might perceive it as an interesting content. If it's not 15th vent in a matter of a week about the same issue, but a new story that happened, it might be actually interesting, right? I'm telling a story, putting a problem, we go for understanding of what happened and why, looking for a solution and observe it's outcome. Agree, that sometimes people don't want to leave behind the problem that are venting about, it becomes just venting for venting, which is boring and always wrong. But if the person venting is actually looking for solutions, it might be interesting, constructive and helpful.
LMHC here - I watched this with a little trepidation at first, but the entire video quickly put that trepidation at ease. A bit of nerdy neuroscience as to why trying to meet their venting with logic (and that includes internal venting to self) is an unproductive idea: those emotions are a subcortical process. The prefrontal cortex’s job is to inhibit those processes. Trying to “logic” the emotions can cause them to shut down before they’ve had a chance to discharge properly (think shutting off the power to a house before you’ve had a chance to properly close out programs on your computer). The validation and calibrated questions is a great way to help facilitate the discharge process 😊
I feel like I needed this today, as a nice reminder to handle hardships better. Gotta call myself out for this one, sometimes I just have a good vent session, and I understand that there’s a fine line between “hey can we talk I’ve got something on my mind and I need someone else to hear me out” and then there’s [insert three hour rant about personal issues]. I’ve come to think that about 20-40 minutes is the max a vent session should reasonably go on, both for your own and the listener’s benefit. And that’s entirely subjective, that timeframe can be different for everyone
As an HSPP, I’d like to offer a different perspective. You mentioned that venting is problematic because people prioritize emotional needs over cognitive ones. However, it’s natural for people to seek understanding before they’re ready to consider solutions. Feeling understood often empowers individuals to discover their own answers. Active listening supports this process and doesn’t require complex strategies. Citing research on discussing extreme trauma immediately after it occurs doesn’t directly apply to everyday situations. I’ve genuinely appreciated your earlier content, but you’re approaching a sensitive topic with more confidence than care.
I often find that a quick vent to someone I trust helps me to finally STOP ruminating over something in my own head.. I vent when something is on my mind ANYWAY and won’t leave so I’m reliving it anyways
I was disagreeing with the beginning of this video, but once you moved onto *how* to vent better and be a better listener to venters, I love how you explained it!! I have countless stories of me venting to strangers and them giving me insight and advice which helped a lot and made me feel so heard and seen. I also have countless stories of strangers venting to me, and through their venting they either gave me awesome advice as well (sort of cautionary tale type of advice) and I’ve also had people tell me that my advice triggered an epiphany in them. Most of these happened while I was traveling (I lived as a backpacker & nomad for a few years throughout 4 different continents). Yes, I can also look back and think of how embarrassing or annoying I acted towards some of those people (and them towards me), but the benefits outweighed that, most times. When it comes to the venter, the key is absolutely about *who* to vent to and *when*.. don’t vent at a party or special event, don’t continue venting to someone who’s clearly trying to stonewall/ignore you or looking for an “out” of the conversation, and don’t vent unless you genuinely haven’t vented about that topic before and need insight, and don’t vent about your cautionary tale to someone who doesn’t need that advice. I also think it’s about *how* you vent. If you’re just saying “this is so horrible” “that girl was so perfect and now she’s gone” etc, that’s very negative and it only really leaves the listener with one option-to empathize and comfort you. Instead, it’s best to vent with introspection and genuine questions towards the problem. “My girl left me and I don’t know why I can’t get over her, it hurt so much and I don’t know why I’m holding on so tight, because the relationship clearly was not healthy” opens up the listener to be able to give much more nuanced advice or support than if you just said “I’m terrible and pathetic and nobody loves me”.
I'm not sure I agree. When people vent, I think it’s often because they feel misunderstood or unheard, not because they just want to rant. Feeling truly understood tends to end the need for venting. But venting can spiral into a negative loop if the listener isn’t engaged, leaving the person even more frustrated and rehashing their emotions. Sometimes, what people need is for you to empathize passionately-show them that their feelings are valid by reflecting their outrage or pain. If you can genuinely share their frustration, it signals that they’re not unreasonable for feeling this way, which can help them process and move forward. That said, this approach requires authenticity. People are sensitive to insincerity, so don’t fake it. Be vulnerable enough to let their pain affect you momentarily. This isn’t about being dragged down permanently-it’s about holding space for their pain in the moment. You’ll recover, and your strength can help them find theirs.
The whole AA communities builds on these circles.. (people are there by own choice). He might talk about when we spill personal stuff unproperly at work, dinners, parties, superstore .. etc
It's amazing how many videos i've seen this new year. Everyone has a strategy to cope with just being a human being. You need to do this and that, and not feel this way or that way. Is this Hell and no-one told us?
There is no hell and no heaven. There is this and this just is. Unfortunately we have the capability of imagining better things and so we always think there is better.
i think saying that venting is always a bad idea is a bit unfair. i get where this is coming from, and i've certainly seen venting go wrong more than once, but i've also seen and experienced it help people a lot. yeah venting on someone out of nowhere is probably not a good idea, me and my friends always just ask first (and we do say "no" sometimes, not everyone is always in the mood for other people's problems and that's fine). this lets the other person prepare for it mentally. sometimes i just wanna talk shit about my work or whatever and hear "yeah man i get you", sometimes i want someone to actually help me with some problem i have. it helps when you have a close and intimate relation with your friends, and you understand each other. venting has certainly helped me more times than it did not, and my friends venting on me is nice too because i can feel good about myself and feel like i'm helping, with very little effort.
just to add... a lot of people only want to vent - they are not analyzing to root out the source of problems (dont conflate complaint with problem solving - it's often not) a lot of people get an emotional/social high from rightesouly venting (ie being right by proxy - ie paint the offender in a negative light) a lot of people will talk regardless who is there - so, in a way, it's not really social - which means why are you there a lot of people have been and will continue to complain about the same types of things or even the same people and problems for years
Thank you, really helpful advice. I've been stuck in the co rumination cycle and now i finally have a way to bring balance back to my really valuable friendships ❤
I'm convinced at this point that healthy relationships are only possible with people who try to better themselves. I'm usually swept away by other people's bad mental states and it can seriously decrease my quality of life if someone keeps on rambling and complaining all the time. If it's someone close to me, I usually try to sort things out with them and look for practical solutions (logical ones never work). But it's mostly the people who keep on venting about the same problems who are least interested in changing anything about their situation and just WANT to complain. This is very frustrating, as my reflex is to spend a lot of time to think about THEIR problems; this is something no one but a psychologist should do (because they are at least getting payed for it). At some point I decided to simply not give a shit about their venting anymore (in the sense of not reacting to it or thinking too much about it at all). This feels uncomfortable, yet seemed to be more effective than to show actual "empathy" which just seemed to reinforce the venting. It makes people reflect more on what they are saying instead of feeding the fire.
I think I learned something from this. When I complained as a child, the suggestions I was given were either flippant or impractical, like setting goals unreasonably high or shifting responsibility back to me. So I kind of got used to being alone with everything. Then I learned to vent. It lasted for some time, but then other people moved on, and now I'm back in square one. Nobody to vent to, nobody to give me practical solutions. But my parents are still there, unchanged.
Have to disagree with you on this one. Venting is often healthy and a good friend will listen. It does make you feel better. Obviously there are people who take it to the extreme and it can be unhealthy (like anything can be) but sometimes you just need to let it out and have someone hear you. Saying it's ALWAYS a bad idea is bad advice. EDIT: He changed title since I posted this comment. It originally was "Why venting is always bad" and is now "why venting is worse than you think."
You have a point, telling others about a problem you've had isn't fundamentally harmful. But I think by venting he meant doing it in an extreme and unhealthy way, which from the definition is harmful. It all boils down to how we define "venting" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@michaklimas6285 my issue is the title saying it is ALWAYS a bad idea, which I disagree with. The title might be designed to generate clicks but when discussing these kinds of issues using absolutes is not helpful or accurate. That said I generally enjoy his content.
I didnt see 'always' in the title. He just said it's worse than you think. Worse doesn't mean something is fundamentally bad, but just that it is not as good in comparison to something better
Is there a difference between venting and just calmly telling a good friends about some problems you're going through if you're going through tough times? Seems you should be able to share if you've got a lot on your mind (I don't mean ranting for quarter of an hour about a parking ticket..). Are you saying you can only talk about positive/happy or neutral things with them? Is genuine communication not important..? Edit: interesting video, thank you, some good points to consider, have finished watching it now.
I think this is an awesome counter argument. I have some thoughts, but I'm gonna do the typical cop out thing and ask you what you think? Because I'd be interested to see if you already have an idea of an answer.
@@NewelOfKnowledge Thanks :) Well, you kind of answered it at the end, ie.if you insist on doing it, at least do it with the right person! My recent thoughts on it were also choose the right person, and rather than just emotionallly wallowing in your problems, explain what you're going through with a bit of detachment from the situation, accept any empathy going, and listen thankfully to advice (without necessarily accepting it - judge in your own mind if it is useful or not). And don't go on and on about it. But of course those things may be harder at some times than other, eg. if you're right in the middle of a crisis situation. Also remember to be there for the other person too, and to be positive and constructive when you can as well, and avoid having relationships where you only ever talk about your problems.
Do the studies even distinguish if the venters were allowed to vent around safe people? It makes a difference if you are met with belittleling and invalidation. Also, isnt therapy mostly venting?
I'm also thinking that the study doesn't really prove causality. It could be that someone who's venting is in more distress about an experience than someone who doesn't.
Very interesting… I’ve heard that the British stiff upper lip was what helped the population cope better during the Second World War. The fact that people didn’t talk about things they were going through but just carried on, helped. It’s so counter to what we’re told to do today.
You may not be aware of the 'Keep calm and carry on' poster, which has spawned all sorts of variations. It was designed in the eventuality of a successful German invasion.
You showed at 6:18 how sharing thoughts and feelings about a traumatic event can lead to this negative circle. But shouldn‘t it help to talk about traumatic events in order to cope with them? Shouldn‘t bad thoughts or traumas have room, so we can process them and get rid of them in the long term? Because stuffing them in your unconsciousness isn’t the solution either. Correct me please if I’m wrong. Would like to hear your take on it. Btw great video as always :)
100% agree. But the key thing is to unpack such traumatic events with a professional who will help you do so in a safe and productive manner, not with people who will rush to give you quick advice (on the internet). Thanks for your support :) and great question.
@@NewelOfKnowledge I tried doing exactly that (unpacking my negative emotions with a therapist) today. She jumped straight to solutioning and gave advice that could have long term negative consequences (complaining to our school principal and demanding they change something). I told her that I thought it was inappropriate to give that advice and that I was just looking to express my frustration and make space for my negative emotions. She told me it was outrageous that I was trying to run the session and ended the session. Um, by which I mean, I guess I wish I could send her this video? And unfortunately not all professionals are professional.
Then you’re most likely going to people seeking the validation and empathy. Like he said, that’s part of why we vent to others, I can tell when I often just want someone to hear me and say “that must be hard” which is totally ok to want!
That’s very often the case, and if I’m being honest, I don’t think people offer advice with the genuine intention of helping others. Now, I’m not saying I think they even know what their genuine intentions are, but I’ve thought about this quite extensively, and I believe the unconscious intent of offering advice(particularly when not explicitly requested) is to prevent people from sharing(“venting”) with you in the future. That’s right! I think people who offer advice are unconsciously trying to keep people from talking to them about their pain, because hearing about the pain of others is so painful for some people. I think this is especially true for men, because men are socially conditioned, much more than women, to believe they only value when they are DOING something. Simply existing and being present with another human being is not a worthy activity for men, from a societal perspective. I’m not saying that men are inherently incapable of listening and being present without doing(offering solutions), but most are socialized to believe it’s not enough. So when a man hears about someone’s troubles, and they aren’t DOING something about it, they feel totally useless. For women, much more often anyway, listening and being present comes more easily because we are not socialized as much as men to be doers. At some point, I told my husband that when I express my feelings to him(unless it is specifically in regard to our relationship), I’m not expecting him to fix anything. That was like a lightbulb moment for him, especially having been raised by a mother who he did perceive as very weak and helpless. I’m sure it makes you feel bad when people offer advice that you have already thought of, like they think you’re stupid or something. Again, i believe this is the unconscious intention, and probably makes it so you don’t want to talk to them again about your problems.
This reminds of a funny video from a few years back, where a man and his female friend/partner are sitting on a couch, and she’s venting to him about this particular problem that’s stressing her out, causing her mental and physical pain, and clouding her thoughts. As it turns out, she has a nail lodged in her forehead. The man attempts to tell her several times that it’s the nail causing all of these problems, and if she just takes the nail out she’ll be fine. However, she constantly interrupts him, refusing to listen to him, and repeats that she feels like she’s not being heard by him. 😂
When you vent, other parts of your brain process the information and help you find new solutions to the problem. So does the advice of a willing ear. Even if their advice isn't right, a brainstorming session can ensue, and solutions abound.
Forcing unsolicited advice on someone with the human need to be heard and validated is rarely helpful, and can often be damaging. If you care about the person, listen to them. It’s not hard.
I mean if way you overdo it with like "everyone" and "everywhere" and it's just a bad habit... but at times you just need to unload, even if very infrequently. The next step once you're done is take a deep breath and reflect on the reasons you did it and what parts were relevant, and what it actually means.
I truly enjoy most of your videos and find them helpful, but this hasn't been true for me at all and following similar advice has been harmful to me and my relationships. I've tried not venting before, worrying the same thing as you present, that 1. I'm making things worse for myself, and 2. I'm being a burden on others (primarily my partner), and not doing so lead to negative outcomes. It's not true for me at all that venting makes me relive the experience, the opposite. By not venting at all, or even trying to just journal it out, it keeps the feelings inside and they begin to rot and fester, increasing feelings of depression and anxiety. Letting it out, venting about it, releases it all and I feel much better, I do not relate to feeling like I'm reliving it or making it worse. It also lead to feelings of guilt around my partner, I wanted to vent but I felt like I was being a bad partner in doing so, which lead to me feeling more emotionally closed off from my partner with higher feelings of depression. My partner noticed this and I explained it to them. My partner replied they didn't mind my venting at all, but that they do appreciate a "heads up, I'd like to vent, are you emotionally available for that?" Since then it's been a lot better, I feel that I can rely on my partner for some emotional support while not being a burden to them, I can get out my feelings to another human being without letting them eat away at me from the inside. Lastly, I very rarely mind listening to somebody else venting myself. It doesn't bore me or frustrate me, (Okay, maybe if they're venting for the millionth time about an issue that is in their control to change.) I enjoy being a space for someone to emotional balance themselves, I don't mind it at all, it's all part of the package for me.
I'm the type of person where I don't mind when people vent to me about problems they are going through in life. I just never done or thought about this approach. I do it like this for now on. Thank you for the knowledge
From the other side - My friend came up with this idea: Potato Helping. If someone is trying to give you good advice, and you can see how much they care and how much energy they're expending trying to help, stop them and say "Thank you for trying to help, I appreciate how much you're doing to help. But I need you to stop, because you're potato helping. What I really need right now is (support, hugs, a shoulder to cry on, etc.)" It acknowledges that they are trying to be helpful, letting them know that they're not achieving the outcome of helping you, and giving them clear and direct advice as to what you actually need.
I just stumbled upon this and coincidentally, I've had two people venting to me today about different things and I used different techniques in each situation. In the first, my sister had a fight with my mum and was venting about it. I was very empathetic but I didn't offer any advice. The second, my ex was venting about his parents meddling in his relationship with his girlfrend. I was the opposite. I had to tell him to stand up for himself and not be a coward. I think I was too harsh because I could relate to his girlfriend. After watching this, I feel like I did bad in both situatioins. (Sorry for my bad English. It's not my mother tongue.) Thanks for the video! I will try to do better in the future.
i'll be honest. cautionary tale time: about a decade ago i had my most stellar hour when it comes to really, no REALLY!!! making a clown out of myself. wont go into the full story, but it started with being in a completely new social environment and bringing my personal disdain and hatred for a neighbor lady (that simply wasnt fainting over the thought of going to bed with me) to those new people, at that point still strangers. followed by a much bigger meltdown over a heartbreak thing and that i took even more out into the public. i didnt air my dirty laundry, no, it was diarrhea soaked laundry i showed to everyone. figuratively. you do this only once. at SOME point either people stop talking to you OR you will bit by bit realize on your own that this understanding smile and patient listening is just self-control to not outright vomit into your face. because thats what youre doing. you vomit emotionally onto people without a warning. lesson learned. i hope. maybe.
I know that in Tibet it's a part of culture to tell another person when you meet them about your problems so that they see how resilient you are, I think it's when people first meet tho (heard it on lingthusiasm podcast)
I really appreciate your proposal of how to be a good listener. But there is one important detail to keep in mind: The method was developed by the police to deal with problematic individuals, and as such in its nature is interested in establishing the own goals through psychological means. In real life, you mostly seek to maintain a healthy equal-level relationship. This relationship is bidirectional and you do not want to force your thoughts onto others through psychological tricks. I think the method is still good for this, but the big change i propose is not to have a clear goal in mind, but rather use the questions to better explore their situation, which may in turn also change your advice/goal at the end. A constructed example: They never told you they got hit by their partner, so at the start you think the complaining is hypocrisy and your goal is to keep them together. But after the talk you may need to reaccess you own standpoint.
Nothing good has ever come of me telling my feelings to other people. I have learned that my pain is not welcome in others hearts. I don't even try anymore. I actively try to just suppress.
5:30 in and I’m in absolute stitches 😂. I love laughing at myself, laughing at humanity and our struggles which is precisely why I’m subscribed. Newel of Knowledge nails our nincompoopery.
I like this. It’s like you’re taking emotional dumping and turning into focused problem solving. It was a bit hard to understand how to effectively lead the conversation this way, but I’m going to give it a shot the next time I get the chance!
This video isn't about venting. It's about problem solving. We all vent but we rarely listen to the solutions we vent about. I've lost friends because they vent to me, I give them perfectly sound advice and they go out of their way to do the exact opposite. Maybe if I knew some of the things in this video I could have actually helped them.
Firslly I think your videos are really awesome. Secondly people who vent have an emotional need to process whatever they are going through, and if you choose not to talk about whatever problems you have you will find it much harder to process them. You are rigjt about needing the correct foil, and I'm wondering if it's possible to help oneself when venting by telling your foil what you want from them. Thirdly, when you're asking the ventor some questions, I've played with the idea of asking targeted hypothetical questions such as "what would happen you feel if you were to do xyz?" I've found hypotheticals a very effective negotiating strategy in business matters in some circumstances and I'm sure the same could be said for personal matters with a bit of thought and delicacy.
Listening and validating to someone in distress does not equal co-rumination.. and I find it fascinating that you liken “listening and validating” to a hostage situation.
There’s nothing more empowering than listening to someone express their feelings without offending advice. It really helps to build and fortify deep emotional bonds between people, which is the most valuable thing a human can have.
Hello Lewis! I sincerely hope all is well in life. Even when it is cold! 🥶 I have found myself in this loop so many times I’m laughing at it, because I never knew what it was and what it meant why I came away from venting feeling worse. Now I know, and I feel relived I’m not alone in this, as you experienced this to! I’m glad we can practice this on ourselves especially if we do not have someone who could do it this way for us. So thank you for adding that! Keep being awesome! You and your channel make me smile! Thank you! ❄️🩵🌲
Id love to see a video about how to be able to focus and study , why is it so hard to even start to study especially when you grow up as a gifted kid that have never had the necessity to do so
Helping someone work toward a solution is wonderful, my advice is that you ask them if they need or want your advice. They may already have a solution formulated. The need to listen and be heard (when appropriate )is human and necessary. Suppressing painful emotions causes a variety of mental and physical issues. Narcissists tend to be uncurious and generally bored when listening, to gain control back, they typically offer unsolicited advice. …and Co ruminating is a different animal. This video lacks the context and specifics, venting can mean many things
I love you and your channel ❤ I'm not British, but I have a British friend who practices reflective listening with me. Honestly, I find it really frustrating, and I can't seem to get him to stop. I’d rather people just listen without repeating everything I say like a parrot-it’s incredibly annoying. I guess it's a cultural difference, but I still love him 😊. Edit: Oh, I see the problem now! He should reflect back to me in his own words instead of just repeating what I say. Got it! Thank you again for such valuable life lessons 👍👍👍
I used to have the problem that i was venting about stuff that didn’t directly affected me. General societal issues, political issues, etc. So a solution had less than zero chance to show itself, no matter what the other did. Most people were kinda grey rocking me, just listening hoping i’d shut up soon. One day a friend of mine completely snapped, justifiably so. That shocked me so much that i started doing some introspection. Turns out my doomscrolling on reddit and my watching of movie critics on YT (already filtered to the more nuanced ones) had me completely radicalized. I even started looking for related issues, when they weren’t even there. I promised that friend I’d never return to those subjects ever again, both when he’s around and not, and cut out all the yt critics. So far it’s been going well. I’m now working on the doomscrolling as whole. The refered to issues are still there, but i’m not looking at them anymore. Which sounds very egotisical, but is purely to keep myself sane.
@ thankfully, i wasn’t that far gone. I never looked down on people from certain groups, i was mainly critical to how media (movies and series) would go about stuff like representation and stuff like that. The forced feel of certain writing, or the forced inclusion by changing something that already exists for the sake of changing it. Stuff that SHOULD make you go “ok” and move on, made me roll my eyes. And i even started questioning original characters. I won’t fully blame critics, as i also have responisibility for my own thoughts, but they certainly didn’t help shaping my view. I would like to reiterate that I’d never look down, put down, or discriminate in any way against people with different race, religion, sexuality or identity. I was just critical on the media’s interpretation and application. I just feel like if people keep focusing on something, insisting that it’s special, it’ll never be seen as normal. I’d never buy into the shithole that is the red pill ideology. In fact, i had no idea what exactly it stood for until I googled it just now. I just heard some stuff about it and decided it was way too extreme to even look further into. I’m healing and now it’s my responsibility to keep going this path. Both for the sake of my own mental health, and my relationship with the people around me. Thank you for the recommendation, though. EDIT: Looked a bit further into the exrepill sub, and i feel like immersing myself, or even just exposing myself, to certain rhetoric, will just make me spiral again. I know that I’ll just start spewing anti-redpill rhetoric to people who either have no idea what it is, or don’t want to talk about it. Which was the main issue to begin with. I have a tendency to hyperfocus and really deep dive into stuff like that, so I’ll probably be better off just not paying attention to it at all.
You just describe me. This is how my life is everyday. Stressed. Miserable. Annoyed. Not depressed just unhappy. When i vent i feel better. But i never thought how the other person views me when i vent to them.
Theres an optional way to negotiate in business where you use "force and pressure", also these negotations can be slightly psychologically violent. I see that in a lot of leaders and negotatiors in the corporate world. Personally I have fought back by "putting people in order". I like these soft skill videos, as they are a more human way to negotiate, and defuse conflict.
Plenty of conclusions were jumped by this gentleman I see. One is the necessary linearity of thought, the other disbelief of the other when they say they understand. By jove, even if one cannot completely understand another, saying it helps, believe or not.
Makes me realize that I can’t confide on anyone even in my family because my voice naturally rises when I’m venting. Having a high pitch automatically lowers their opinion of you 😭
I think when youre venting at someone who you think would have lower opinion of you for it, your expecting a fight, and your body naturally goes in heightened response, that includes becoming higher pitch. You can’t really control that part. What you can control is who you think it’d be safer to vent to regarding context you’re in. Sometimes, like with not so receiving family, it can be hard to find that safety. But you’ll find it, as long as you’re continuing your own quest.
Venting helped me get perspective i was bouncing of feelings. the thing you mentioned 3 minutes in is depending on who are you venting to and how and what for rather than venting itself.
For me I end up venting because I always feel like I only get to say 90% of what I need to share. Sometimes people cut me off with advice, sometimes I feel like I will be judged if I share my full story, so I end up keeping venting because there is the remaining 10% I never share that I also do know is the key to get better. Sometimes we just need to get everything fully out, so we can feel like every part is heard and seen
This is pretty toxic. It is manipulation and pretending an inability to empathize is actually care. I get that some people get stuck in the comfortableness of being gloomy and stuck (excusing them not taking action), but they are then exhibiting signs of a greater problem - pure lack of confidence that may be rooted in trauma.
In the wrong hands definitely can be used for manipulation. However I would argue if ones intention is to just help without any gains, this is a skill and flow helps in removing misunderstandings, even help to be more empathetic to the person venting, and give a solution that have both listener and venter to find something that suits and help the venter, and not something that the listener gains from I say this being someone that used to and always keep making misunderstandings despite wanting to help and hurt the person further. What NewelofKnowledge says of using "Why" questions does give misunderstandings of being intrusive is really true. As for empathy there is a lot of different types of it and also highly based on one's own experience. I can sympathize someone that went to war, but as someone that have never experienced it, I won't be able to fully and deeply feel. I can try to simulate their events and imagine it, but its a fine line of actually empathizing and projection, giving needless harm inflicted on one self as it takes you away from listening to the venter. Having these curated questions help to really listen tot the venter and what they are saying, clarifying their stance and be there for them. And if the listener realizes from the queries that they are not fit to help , be it just not having the experience or understanding of the situation, they would know not to give a solution to the issue, can still give other forms of support like a space for them if things hit the fan.
Not everyone is good at being empathetic, it’s not always intentional. It could be their nature or from their experiences. The fact the person is “pretending” to be empathetic may show that they actually do care, instead of just brushing the other person off, at least they are trying to appear empathetic. And sometimes, for those that lack empathy, it’s a learning process, this could potentially teach someone *how* to be empathetic. The toxicity really depends on the person, maybe the person wants to be helpful for their friend or maybe they just want their friend to shut up. And please understand that just because a person lacks empathy does not mean that they aren’t sympathetic and understanding. So it doesn’t automatically make them a villain either.
@ the whole point of this exercise as it is being laid out is to make the friend stop complaining and take (the) action that the person this is aimed at deems the x right one - which inherently becomes an issue if that person themselves are unable to empathise, and thus give proper advice. To feign empathy in this manner does more harm than good. You can absolutely be curious and inquisitive regarding the friends struggles (and that could help develop empathy I guess), so why not just do that. Oftentimes the friend needs to work things out together with someone and the answers will come to them from that process. Not feeling alone is the main goal. They can't be "understanding" if they lack empathy, even if they are sympathetic in nature. But sympathy is rather cheap when it comes to advice.
I dont thing venting is _always_ counterproductive. It depends on who you vent to, how the other person handles the vent, and how you handle their reaction. Its kinda like a skill i guess xD
This is really helpful! Hopefully will try it out on one of my co-workers who's venting to me everyday and keeps ruining the mood. Unfortunately I just couldn't put any valuable answers because he didn't even let me to speak.
It depends on the relationship you have. If people know that they can tell you to give it a rest, then it can be fine. Part of caring about someone is caring about the problems that they're having
This video has been a great refresher for me on how to listen and empathize more productively... or advise more empathetically, lol. I would like to say, however, that I disagree with the very last tip, to ask advice in front of the person you're trying to help, because it is kind of passive aggressive, in my opinion. I also appreciate how you shared with us how to receive someone who is venting, but you did not clearly establish the first point as being “venting is bad if you do it wrong” through your wording. It came across to me as “sharing your feelings always makes things worse” which is both untrue and would invalidate the rest of your video. Ahem, what I mean is, what were you hoping to convey about venting in the first part of the video? From my perspective, the sharing of emotions and recieving validation from others isn't bad, but it becomes annoying when done excessively without an intent to improve (leaves the listener helpless and the venter continuously frustrated as mentioned). Regardless of whether you share or not, if you're not ready to take strides to change your situation, you will feel worse regardless! I wish that this was stated more clearly instead of focusing on the sharing itself being the issue. The studies may be showing a correlation between people who vent a lot and people who don't know how to validate their own feelings and aren't ready to take action. Thanks for reading my two cents!Stay playful and dangerous 🫡
Disagree. Yes, many people react to venting like you described, annoyed. But that is because people are stupid. If you can read between the lines, you can learn much about world and the person talking. That can be useful.
@@humans_do_stuff This is highly individual. I would never want my partner thinking they were emotionally holding me hostage in looking for emotional support, I'm happy and honored to do it.
@@AZ-ty7ub Haven't you watched the video? "Venting" implies a need for validation of our own emotions from others regardless if we are right or not. The whole act of "venting" is highly individualistic and selfish by nature. The whole thing is highly irrational, this is "why venting is always a bad idea." Congratz on your virtue signaling, another trait of highly egoic individuals who think they are perfect but are just projecting their need for validation from others.
@humans_do_stuff Assuming so much about the psychology of a stranger based on one comment, accusing them of virtue signaling and, good lord, being a highly egoic individual, does not speak to good things of your judgement. Be wiser and have more compassion, projection is always obvious and you're better than that.
@@humans_do_stuff @humans_do_stuff Zoom out for a moment and imagine someone else is watching this unfold in real life. You've read a single comment from someone you'll never know, and you're telling them you've got an entire psychological profile on them? It's a little funny is all I'm saying. Cheers.
This seems very much like the Socratic method. There are two facets to that method from the famous philosopher: 1. The first is that during (or perhaps before) a debate, Person A should be able to explain Person B's perspective, to Person B's satisfaction (and vice-versa). 2. The second is the notion of asking questions which push the other person into framing their own beliefs in words - so as to illustrate the consequences of these beliefs.
Hey Lewis, I just had an idea: I've listened to Hubermans Dopmain/Motivation Podcast just now and it was said that most dopamine addictions effects last about 30 days...How about you start a trend like the nnn but just with your phone? For example f*ck phone february :) In that month you'd not be allowed to doomscroll or do other things that wouldnt be considered productive👀 Maybe all that needs a little or a lot of tweaking but I kinda like the idea :) I dont even need to share credit, I just think it would be a great idea😃
IMO the "journalistic" questioning and probing is not empathic at all, as illustrated by the fact that it does trigger the awkward emotions associated with the events in question. To me it seems more like morbid, almost sadistic curiosity to figure out where exactly you fell short. It may be a staple of certain kinds of therapy, but that is not what I am looking for in a friend. I already know things didn't go well, and have plenty of awkward emotions and intrusive thoughts already thank you very much, so pestering me for juicy intel about the various stages of humiliation just so you can point our the error of my ways doesn't do anything for me. Nobody needs that. An empathic response would be along the lines of: not succeeding at every random scenario doesn't mean you are a failed human.
You feel with them, lean into the emotion, make them feel heard and validated. You use empathy, then you start detaching emotionally a little bit and look at things from bigger and multiple perspectives. Giving you more clarity. Me and my lil sis have perfected this. I‘m a gemini who loves to understand all perspectives, but my aries moon is hella impulsive. Here is where my sister complements me; my sister has an aquarius stellium, she is much better at detaching from emotions and seeing the big picture; while staying her empowered empathic self. I always feel good sharing with her and usually feel empowered and even more compassionate after talking with her.
Looking good, Newel. This is based on the video's title mostly. I saw a short on this from Healthy Gamer GG (have yet to fully watch THIS video) but in his short video, he basically said that when you vent, you make it to be "done with" in your brain, so you won't put effort into changing things, because in your brain "it's already sort of resolved". It was a big moment for me, because it unlocked this part of me that could, in weird terms, make "shame" useful for me as a tool to get out of my bed instead of just trying to "digest" the shame. In other words, when I felt ashamed, instead of trying to just get it off my chest, I could actually just do something, motivated by the shame.
@@bingobongo4561 ok, i think my comment didn't go through " The Neuroscience of Venting @TheDiaryOfACEO" by HealthyGamerGG there's obviously more to it than just "DON'T VENT!" (it's a short after all), but essentially, if you recognize you are in a cycle of venting, that's the point you should begin to potentially use your negative emotions for action.
Great point. I'd say there's a caveat; venting is always going to be a bad idea if the person you're venting to is either just being empathic or just being practical. Venting will be useful if you vent to someone who first shows you empathy and then helps you alter your perspective. Thanks for pointing this out.
6:12 Those studies don't sound like randomized controlled trials, so they might not be able to distinguish correlation from causation. In other words, maybe people vented *because* they had less patience left or felt more need to vent, as opposed to suffering *because* of having vented.
The last time this happened to me on the phone with a "friend" he talked for 60 min straight, he did not give me any opportunity to say anything, then ended it with insulting me and hung up. That was that I guess. Gosh I kept him around for way too long. I don't mind a 10 to 20 min vent if someone is really distressed.
My parents vent to me but instead of venting they yell at me and blame me for everything and tell me I am a loser. A few days ago they were upset about a public toilet that was dirty so they yelled at me. For some reason the venting of my friends is more pleasant to listen to. I notice myself complaining all the time and hate myself for it. I have realised I am complaining
Here is a way to vent: Write it to Claude 3.5 sonnet. It's more human that I am and I think you can learn from it. Really they trained it well for having this human touch.
Thank you for your time & attention :)
Full video notes with calibrated questions here:
www.newelofknowledge.com/letters/why-venting-never-works-dealing-with-ventors-death-7-mins-read
See you in the next one!
Lew
I disagree that venting is always bad. Over-venting is always bad, a little bit of venting can keep someone from committing horrible acts sometimes you never really know. What never helps is droning on about something you cant do or don't like simply because you think everyone would love to hear about it, the newsflash for some people is that most people dont want to hear more than 10 seconds of anything like that. Just sum up your thoughts and move on, it's narcissistic to act like some main character that everyone must stop and support everytime you stub your toe on that one coffee table.
I like listening to my friends vent if they are going through something
That means it rarely happens
@@Ryan-xq3kl maybe they are just venting, not openly ruminating.
if they are going through something I guess it's fine, but I avoid listening to those friends who are CONSTANTLY going through something every day
❤
Your comment stopped my scroll and made me smile 😊, your friends are blessed to have you.
I vented to a random lady at the gas station, now we cool af. Being vulnerable makes friends :)
Sometimes lol
The way I see it, if they don't appreciate your vulnerability, they likely weren't going to mesh with your vibes, anyway. :-)
@@patchoulicolt7093I've been cringing over venting to someone I like recently, this made me feel better :]
"You probably didn't just think of a cat"
don't underestimate my ability to follow instructions very literally
Golden comment
yeah I imagined a cat for 20 seconds. He didn't say think of a picture of a cat. So my cat walked around and I imagined it from different perspectives, but I did imagine a "cat for 20 seconds"...
for the life of me i couldn't focus on cat longer than 3 seconds
i thought about his kinda messy food place and his usual walking arrows throughout the house. And the annoyingly small difference between a storming down the stairs for greeting and storming down the stairs for the plz lemme out thing AND the storming down the stairs for just awaiting someone/yearning AND the haha nope curving away and further down into the basement kinda bored thing he does
@@nostalji93 yeah, you did imagine a cat for 20 sec, but not "just a cat". You didn't keep the abstract of a cat in your head alone, did you?
I bet the cat had a color or a mix of a few, you've created the whole environment for your cat to walk around, and you've switched angles. NOK said "just a cat", but your brain added more details. For some who love and have/had cats brain added details from their past.
And this was the point, IMHO.
this reminds me of Berne's transactional analysis - parent-adult-child. like when someone vents, they may speak from their "Child" mode, perhaps to seek care from a "Parent." so an effective approach might be to offer empathy (providing care to their "Child") and then redirect the interaction to an Adult-Adult level by engaging their rational side.
That's a good approach, rather than just shutting them down
4:35 The very instant I thought of a cat, my cat leaped into my lap. So I failed the exercise but discovered a new super power.
Please use your powers for good! 🥺
I really want a cat! 😻
How did you fail the exercise? It was literally "For the next 20 seconds I want you to think of a cat and see where your mind goes with that though""
Dang, in our circles, we don’t start by giving advice. We just let them vent. Then we take turns listening to each other. Hearing sob stories and showing empathy but also expressing logic has helped us. I’ve helped a few friends out of hard situations by giving them ideas and perspectives maybe I’ve seen firsthand. I’ve even solved my own problems by venting and then having the other perspectives given to me. Are we the only ones?
Edit: isn’t seeing a therapist basically venting about things that bother you and finding out why they bother you? Solving problems you don’t even know that you have? Also I DID write this before I watched the whole video 😅
I agree with you
Misery loves company
Some people want help, another want just constantly complain. Big difference.
I also do this within my closest friend group. It has helped many of us tremendously, it even works better than therapy, because sometimes we know our friends better and can signal them and give another perspective on a problem.
It's the social gathering that does you good. If you'd all go and play darts instead you'd get roughly the same results.
And no, seeing a therapist is not about venting at all. It does often start with venting, because mud needs to leave the tube sometimes, but after that it's about identifying the patterns that lead to the need to vent, so to say, in order to prevent it altogether :p
I actually don't mind people venting to me, but also just like watching people, be people and not everyone is like that.
I'm a great venter, even if I accidentally enter in a cycle and I can't leave it. This is just a drug for me D:
Hopefully, you'll never meet a person who makes you dislike it :D
I know a person, who's venting a few times a week to my friend, often about the same problem, and never makes a step towards resolving it.
My friend hates it, but it's her mother, and she vents to me about it, or... used to. We stopped seeing each other after that.
@pavloshtefanesku5109 if they do that they are just stuck in a loop, listen for a second then switch topics, they normally will start flowing there thoughts somewhere else. If you are a good friend you listen while redirecting you don't need to take the energy into you.
There's a fundamental difference between sharing your thoughts and feeling online, as in the two studies linked, and sharing them privately with someone you trust, daring to be vulnerable in their presence, and feeling seen and understood by that person. The former is useless, as the papers rightfully conclude, but the latter can be incredibly cathartic.
The second half of the talk is about how to be that person who sees and understands, but it's all about the surface level, i.e. how to act and what to say. What's more important is what you feel and what you make them feel. It's also a lot simpler to remember than all of that. Feel their need for connection, feel that you're their safe harbor where they can be vulnerable without fear, and cherish the trust they show you by allowing themselves to be seen by you in this state. On top of this emotional foundation, asking the questions and using the techniques outlined feels natural and right. You're not manipulating, you're not using secret tricks that you're hiding from them - you're leading them to an emotionally better place.
Thank you. I now understand how I get it so wrong when my daughter is venting to me. I will be practicing on myself first to learn the technique.If only I had known these techniques earlier in my life!
That's genuinely so sweet that you thought of how you can better communicate with your daughter. It seems like many parents are just dismissive and unwilling to learn. You surely have a lovely soul.
We stan parents (and people in general) who learn 🙌🙌
I needed to talk and vent out my grief, it made me physically ill to hold it in but I didn’t have accepting people to talk to. I got a therapist and went to grief groups and it felt safe to speak it out and actually receive helpful feedback on how to overcome it. Most people give bad advice or don’t respond the way we want them to, it can keep us stuck. I just listen to people now without giving much advice at all because it is a waste of energy. Some people just wanna keep bringing up the past and why life isn’t working out, not have actual solutions. Great video.
I think unless you’re a professional of some sort (doctor, therapist, financial adviser, lawyer), you should NEVER start with where YOU want to lead them. If they are coming to you in distress, you should find out (or help them find out) what THEY want. If I had a friend or family member, and I’ve had my share, who is leading me towards what they want me to do, it never helps, and has over time led to broken relationships. It’s hubris to think we know better than the other person what they need or want.
Great point. I should’ve added this as a caveat. Thanks for mentioning.
Truth. I've found that when I listen to someone vent long enough, many times they come up with ideas of what they should do on their own. I don't really have to say anything.
100%. Fantastic point. I've been going through a lot lately, and the ones who have helped me are those who helped me figure out what I need, as opposed to others who thought I needed this or that.
Thank you for pointing this out 😊
@@requinremembers Totally agree! You just laid out what I believe is the main benefit of venting. Giving the distressed person an avenue to release the pressure, achieve clarity in the process, and potentially identify themselves what they need to do😊
@@tjjavier Thanks, glad you agree! I do think it requires a certain amount of introspection, etc for a venting person to be able to do that. Some people vent just for attention, or to hear themselves talk..in those cases they probably won't come to the right conclusions. But the 'right' person (maybe that's the person who really does want answers, somehow) can often untangle the knot easier by talking it out. :)
I've actually never been there, that I remember of (wanting for the person to stop venting). I like to listen and let the person vent if they feel like expressing that. Certainly has helped me, I'm sure it has helped others as well. Nothing wrong with just showing validation and empathy without actively searching for solution. If it leads to unnecessary rumination of anxiety and pain, then sure there's better ways. But I don't think it's always going to lead to ruminating or negative loop. It's more about experiencing, practicing and expressing emotions, such as anger, in a healthy manner, and the other person being present with you. So I'll respectfully disagree on it always being a bad thing.
If you know how to listen, the other person's venting won't turn into a negative loop. If you are being smart, on the other hand...venting becomes the enemy. I think it is offensive to assume that the other person can't fix their problems and it is us they need for guidance. The whole premise of this video is offensive.
Agree. It's not always a bad thing. The loop can be cut off in the moment, when we gain understanding of what happened and why it happened. Sometimes venting might help with it. I experienced situation that stressed me, I was able to vent to someone who shared empathy and understanding, but also at the same time he/she saw the situation from another perspective and actually showed it to me, so I can really understand what happened and why. That really does calm my emotions and solves my cognitive needs, rather than only burning me again. If I'm venting to someone and I can see he/she does not listen to me, or just shows bland empathy, throwing at me pointless and empty phrases like "oh, I'm so sorry, that must suck", I don't vent anymore, seeing that it has no positive outcome and there's no point of doing it.
If we look at it from the other side, the other person might perceive it as an interesting content. If it's not 15th vent in a matter of a week about the same issue, but a new story that happened, it might be actually interesting, right? I'm telling a story, putting a problem, we go for understanding of what happened and why, looking for a solution and observe it's outcome.
Agree, that sometimes people don't want to leave behind the problem that are venting about, it becomes just venting for venting, which is boring and always wrong. But if the person venting is actually looking for solutions, it might be interesting, constructive and helpful.
LMHC here - I watched this with a little trepidation at first, but the entire video quickly put that trepidation at ease.
A bit of nerdy neuroscience as to why trying to meet their venting with logic (and that includes internal venting to self) is an unproductive idea: those emotions are a subcortical process. The prefrontal cortex’s job is to inhibit those processes. Trying to “logic” the emotions can cause them to shut down before they’ve had a chance to discharge properly (think shutting off the power to a house before you’ve had a chance to properly close out programs on your computer).
The validation and calibrated questions is a great way to help facilitate the discharge process 😊
I feel like I needed this today, as a nice reminder to handle hardships better. Gotta call myself out for this one, sometimes I just have a good vent session, and I understand that there’s a fine line between “hey can we talk I’ve got something on my mind and I need someone else to hear me out” and then there’s [insert three hour rant about personal issues]. I’ve come to think that about 20-40 minutes is the max a vent session should reasonably go on, both for your own and the listener’s benefit. And that’s entirely subjective, that timeframe can be different for everyone
As an HSPP, I’d like to offer a different perspective. You mentioned that venting is problematic because people prioritize emotional needs over cognitive ones. However, it’s natural for people to seek understanding before they’re ready to consider solutions. Feeling understood often empowers individuals to discover their own answers. Active listening supports this process and doesn’t require complex strategies.
Citing research on discussing extreme trauma immediately after it occurs doesn’t directly apply to everyday situations. I’ve genuinely appreciated your earlier content, but you’re approaching a sensitive topic with more confidence than care.
I often find that a quick vent to someone I trust helps me to finally STOP ruminating over something in my own head..
I vent when something is on my mind ANYWAY and won’t leave so I’m reliving it anyways
I was disagreeing with the beginning of this video, but once you moved onto *how* to vent better and be a better listener to venters, I love how you explained it!!
I have countless stories of me venting to strangers and them giving me insight and advice which helped a lot and made me feel so heard and seen. I also have countless stories of strangers venting to me, and through their venting they either gave me awesome advice as well (sort of cautionary tale type of advice) and I’ve also had people tell me that my advice triggered an epiphany in them. Most of these happened while I was traveling (I lived as a backpacker & nomad for a few years throughout 4 different continents). Yes, I can also look back and think of how embarrassing or annoying I acted towards some of those people (and them towards me), but the benefits outweighed that, most times.
When it comes to the venter, the key is absolutely about *who* to vent to and *when*.. don’t vent at a party or special event, don’t continue venting to someone who’s clearly trying to stonewall/ignore you or looking for an “out” of the conversation, and don’t vent unless you genuinely haven’t vented about that topic before and need insight, and don’t vent about your cautionary tale to someone who doesn’t need that advice.
I also think it’s about *how* you vent. If you’re just saying “this is so horrible” “that girl was so perfect and now she’s gone” etc, that’s very negative and it only really leaves the listener with one option-to empathize and comfort you. Instead, it’s best to vent with introspection and genuine questions towards the problem. “My girl left me and I don’t know why I can’t get over her, it hurt so much and I don’t know why I’m holding on so tight, because the relationship clearly was not healthy” opens up the listener to be able to give much more nuanced advice or support than if you just said “I’m terrible and pathetic and nobody loves me”.
I'm not sure I agree. When people vent, I think it’s often because they feel misunderstood or unheard, not because they just want to rant. Feeling truly understood tends to end the need for venting. But venting can spiral into a negative loop if the listener isn’t engaged, leaving the person even more frustrated and rehashing their emotions.
Sometimes, what people need is for you to empathize passionately-show them that their feelings are valid by reflecting their outrage or pain. If you can genuinely share their frustration, it signals that they’re not unreasonable for feeling this way, which can help them process and move forward.
That said, this approach requires authenticity. People are sensitive to insincerity, so don’t fake it. Be vulnerable enough to let their pain affect you momentarily. This isn’t about being dragged down permanently-it’s about holding space for their pain in the moment. You’ll recover, and your strength can help them find theirs.
The whole AA communities builds on these circles.. (people are there by own choice).
He might talk about when we spill personal stuff unproperly at work, dinners, parties, superstore .. etc
It's amazing how many videos i've seen this new year. Everyone has a strategy to cope with just being a human being. You need to do this and that, and not feel this way or that way. Is this Hell and no-one told us?
There is no hell and no heaven. There is this and this just is. Unfortunately we have the capability of imagining better things and so we always think there is better.
@@bums009 Billions of people understand the paradigm of Heaven and Hell. Either you are naive or wilfully ignorant.
i think saying that venting is always a bad idea is a bit unfair. i get where this is coming from, and i've certainly seen venting go wrong more than once, but i've also seen and experienced it help people a lot. yeah venting on someone out of nowhere is probably not a good idea, me and my friends always just ask first (and we do say "no" sometimes, not everyone is always in the mood for other people's problems and that's fine). this lets the other person prepare for it mentally. sometimes i just wanna talk shit about my work or whatever and hear "yeah man i get you", sometimes i want someone to actually help me with some problem i have. it helps when you have a close and intimate relation with your friends, and you understand each other. venting has certainly helped me more times than it did not, and my friends venting on me is nice too because i can feel good about myself and feel like i'm helping, with very little effort.
just to add...
a lot of people only want to vent - they are not analyzing to root out the source of problems (dont conflate complaint with problem solving - it's often not)
a lot of people get an emotional/social high from rightesouly venting (ie being right by proxy - ie paint the offender in a negative light)
a lot of people will talk regardless who is there - so, in a way, it's not really social - which means why are you there
a lot of people have been and will continue to complain about the same types of things or even the same people and problems for years
what’s insanity? doing the same thing repeatedly, hoping for a different result.
Thank you, really helpful advice. I've been stuck in the co rumination cycle and now i finally have a way to bring balance back to my really valuable friendships ❤
I'm convinced at this point that healthy relationships are only possible with people who try to better themselves. I'm usually swept away by other people's bad mental states and it can seriously decrease my quality of life if someone keeps on rambling and complaining all the time. If it's someone close to me, I usually try to sort things out with them and look for practical solutions (logical ones never work). But it's mostly the people who keep on venting about the same problems who are least interested in changing anything about their situation and just WANT to complain. This is very frustrating, as my reflex is to spend a lot of time to think about THEIR problems; this is something no one but a psychologist should do (because they are at least getting payed for it).
At some point I decided to simply not give a shit about their venting anymore (in the sense of not reacting to it or thinking too much about it at all). This feels uncomfortable, yet seemed to be more effective than to show actual "empathy" which just seemed to reinforce the venting. It makes people reflect more on what they are saying instead of feeding the fire.
Paid. Payed is synonymous with tarred.
@@seriouscat2231 lol thx
energy vampires
I think I learned something from this. When I complained as a child, the suggestions I was given were either flippant or impractical, like setting goals unreasonably high or shifting responsibility back to me. So I kind of got used to being alone with everything.
Then I learned to vent. It lasted for some time, but then other people moved on, and now I'm back in square one. Nobody to vent to, nobody to give me practical solutions. But my parents are still there, unchanged.
Have to disagree with you on this one. Venting is often healthy and a good friend will listen. It does make you feel better. Obviously there are people who take it to the extreme and it can be unhealthy (like anything can be) but sometimes you just need to let it out and have someone hear you. Saying it's ALWAYS a bad idea is bad advice.
EDIT: He changed title since I posted this comment. It originally was "Why venting is always bad" and is now "why venting is worse than you think."
Agreed
You have a point, telling others about a problem you've had isn't fundamentally harmful. But I think by venting he meant doing it in an extreme and unhealthy way, which from the definition is harmful. It all boils down to how we define "venting" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@michaklimas6285 my issue is the title saying it is ALWAYS a bad idea, which I disagree with. The title might be designed to generate clicks but when discussing these kinds of issues using absolutes is not helpful or accurate. That said I generally enjoy his content.
@@litemakrto your point though, you shouldn’t ever be taking advice from mere headlines
I didnt see 'always' in the title. He just said it's worse than you think. Worse doesn't mean something is fundamentally bad, but just that it is not as good in comparison to something better
Is there a difference between venting and just calmly telling a good friends about some problems you're going through if you're going through tough times? Seems you should be able to share if you've got a lot on your mind (I don't mean ranting for quarter of an hour about a parking ticket..). Are you saying you can only talk about positive/happy or neutral things with them? Is genuine communication not important..? Edit: interesting video, thank you, some good points to consider, have finished watching it now.
I think this is an awesome counter argument. I have some thoughts, but I'm gonna do the typical cop out thing and ask you what you think? Because I'd be interested to see if you already have an idea of an answer.
@@NewelOfKnowledge Thanks :) Well, you kind of answered it at the end, ie.if you insist on doing it, at least do it with the right person! My recent thoughts on it were also choose the right person, and rather than just emotionallly wallowing in your problems, explain what you're going through with a bit of detachment from the situation, accept any empathy going, and listen thankfully to advice (without necessarily accepting it - judge in your own mind if it is useful or not). And don't go on and on about it. But of course those things may be harder at some times than other, eg. if you're right in the middle of a crisis situation. Also remember to be there for the other person too, and to be positive and constructive when you can as well, and avoid having relationships where you only ever talk about your problems.
Do the studies even distinguish if the venters were allowed to vent around safe people? It makes a difference if you are met with belittleling and invalidation. Also, isnt therapy mostly venting?
I'm also thinking that the study doesn't really prove causality. It could be that someone who's venting is in more distress about an experience than someone who doesn't.
TYYYYYYY ♥️, IM STUCK IN THIS SITUATION WITH MY BEST FRIEND AND I JUST CAN'T GET HIM TO CHEER UP OR LET ME HELP DIRECTLY 😭
Very interesting… I’ve heard that the British stiff upper lip was what helped the population cope better during the Second World War. The fact that people didn’t talk about things they were going through but just carried on, helped. It’s so counter to what we’re told to do today.
You may not be aware of the 'Keep calm and carry on' poster, which has spawned all sorts of variations.
It was designed in the eventuality of a successful German invasion.
bandura's bobo dolls tested the Boomer advice to Let it all out - it made everything worse
@@davidbowman2035 what odds did they give a german invasion?
You showed at 6:18 how sharing thoughts and feelings about a traumatic event can lead to this negative circle. But shouldn‘t it help to talk about traumatic events in order to cope with them? Shouldn‘t bad thoughts or traumas have room, so we can process them and get rid of them in the long term? Because stuffing them in your unconsciousness isn’t the solution either. Correct me please if I’m wrong. Would like to hear your take on it. Btw great video as always :)
100% agree. But the key thing is to unpack such traumatic events with a professional who will help you do so in a safe and productive manner, not with people who will rush to give you quick advice (on the internet). Thanks for your support :) and great question.
@@NewelOfKnowledgeI see! Thank you for taking the time to answer. I appreciate it!
@@NewelOfKnowledge I tried doing exactly that (unpacking my negative emotions with a therapist) today. She jumped straight to solutioning and gave advice that could have long term negative consequences (complaining to our school principal and demanding they change something). I told her that I thought it was inappropriate to give that advice and that I was just looking to express my frustration and make space for my negative emotions. She told me it was outrageous that I was trying to run the session and ended the session.
Um, by which I mean, I guess I wish I could send her this video? And unfortunately not all professionals are professional.
@@NimlothEnnue That sounds extremely rude and unprofessional. Of course you're running the session, it's for YOU! Not the therapist!
@@NimlothEnnue sounds like you need a different therapist 😅
But the thing is. When people try to give me advise I've already thought of all the solutions that they could possibly think of.
Then you’re most likely going to people seeking the validation and empathy. Like he said, that’s part of why we vent to others, I can tell when I often just want someone to hear me and say “that must be hard” which is totally ok to want!
That’s very often the case, and if I’m being honest, I don’t think people offer advice with the genuine intention of helping others. Now, I’m not saying I think they even know what their genuine intentions are, but I’ve thought about this quite extensively, and I believe the unconscious intent of offering advice(particularly when not explicitly requested) is to prevent people from sharing(“venting”) with you in the future. That’s right! I think people who offer advice are unconsciously trying to keep people from talking to them about their pain, because hearing about the pain of others is so painful for some people. I think this is especially true for men, because men are socially conditioned, much more than women, to believe they only value when they are DOING something. Simply existing and being present with another human being is not a worthy activity for men, from a societal perspective. I’m not saying that men are inherently incapable of listening and being present without doing(offering solutions), but most are socialized to believe it’s not enough. So when a man hears about someone’s troubles, and they aren’t DOING something about it, they feel totally useless. For women, much more often anyway, listening and being present comes more easily because we are not socialized as much as men to be doers. At some point, I told my husband that when I express my feelings to him(unless it is specifically in regard to our relationship), I’m not expecting him to fix anything. That was like a lightbulb moment for him, especially having been raised by a mother who he did perceive as very weak and helpless. I’m sure it makes you feel bad when people offer advice that you have already thought of, like they think you’re stupid or something. Again, i believe this is the unconscious intention, and probably makes it so you don’t want to talk to them again about your problems.
This reminds of a funny video from a few years back, where a man and his female friend/partner are sitting on a couch, and she’s venting to him about this particular problem that’s stressing her out, causing her mental and physical pain, and clouding her thoughts. As it turns out, she has a nail lodged in her forehead. The man attempts to tell her several times that it’s the nail causing all of these problems, and if she just takes the nail out she’ll be fine. However, she constantly interrupts him, refusing to listen to him, and repeats that she feels like she’s not being heard by him.
😂
Welcome to being a therapist
@@jasonjones4036 you shouldn't be a therapist if this is your mindset. It's harmful.
This is eye opening. Super helpful. you’re a fantastic teacher and person. Thank you. You rock!!!
Thanks!
thank you :)
So I think the quality is a humble form of compassion and curiosity towards the other person.
Venting and complaining are compulsions! It’s simply assurance-seeking.
Everything comes down into reassurance and validation
When you vent, other parts of your brain process the information and help you find new solutions to the problem. So does the advice of a willing ear. Even if their advice isn't right, a brainstorming session can ensue, and solutions abound.
Forcing unsolicited advice on someone with the human need to be heard and validated is rarely helpful, and can often be damaging. If you care about the person, listen to them. It’s not hard.
I mean if way you overdo it with like "everyone" and "everywhere" and it's just a bad habit... but at times you just need to unload, even if very infrequently. The next step once you're done is take a deep breath and reflect on the reasons you did it and what parts were relevant, and what it actually means.
This is why venting to AI will take over in the future. Especially for men. I use ChatGPT advanced voice mode to vent. Works great.
😂😂😂
I truly enjoy most of your videos and find them helpful, but this hasn't been true for me at all and following similar advice has been harmful to me and my relationships.
I've tried not venting before, worrying the same thing as you present, that 1. I'm making things worse for myself, and 2. I'm being a burden on others (primarily my partner), and not doing so lead to negative outcomes.
It's not true for me at all that venting makes me relive the experience, the opposite. By not venting at all, or even trying to just journal it out, it keeps the feelings inside and they begin to rot and fester, increasing feelings of depression and anxiety. Letting it out, venting about it, releases it all and I feel much better, I do not relate to feeling like I'm reliving it or making it worse.
It also lead to feelings of guilt around my partner, I wanted to vent but I felt like I was being a bad partner in doing so, which lead to me feeling more emotionally closed off from my partner with higher feelings of depression.
My partner noticed this and I explained it to them. My partner replied they didn't mind my venting at all, but that they do appreciate a "heads up, I'd like to vent, are you emotionally available for that?"
Since then it's been a lot better, I feel that I can rely on my partner for some emotional support while not being a burden to them, I can get out my feelings to another human being without letting them eat away at me from the inside.
Lastly, I very rarely mind listening to somebody else venting myself. It doesn't bore me or frustrate me, (Okay, maybe if they're venting for the millionth time about an issue that is in their control to change.) I enjoy being a space for someone to emotional balance themselves, I don't mind it at all, it's all part of the package for me.
This said, I do agree there are better and worse ways both to vent and how to listen to venting, so I appreciate that.
I'm the type of person where I don't mind when people vent to me about problems they are going through in life. I just never done or thought about this approach. I do it like this for now on. Thank you for the knowledge
For me, venting has been an emotional reaction.
This is why i have been learning about Stoicism.
From the other side - My friend came up with this idea: Potato Helping. If someone is trying to give you good advice, and you can see how much they care and how much energy they're expending trying to help, stop them and say "Thank you for trying to help, I appreciate how much you're doing to help. But I need you to stop, because you're potato helping. What I really need right now is (support, hugs, a shoulder to cry on, etc.)"
It acknowledges that they are trying to be helpful, letting them know that they're not achieving the outcome of helping you, and giving them clear and direct advice as to what you actually need.
I just stumbled upon this and coincidentally, I've had two people venting to me today about different things and I used different techniques in each situation. In the first, my sister had a fight with my mum and was venting about it. I was very empathetic but I didn't offer any advice. The second, my ex was venting about his parents meddling in his relationship with his girlfrend. I was the opposite. I had to tell him to stand up for himself and not be a coward. I think I was too harsh because I could relate to his girlfriend. After watching this, I feel like I did bad in both situatioins. (Sorry for my bad English. It's not my mother tongue.) Thanks for the video! I will try to do better in the future.
i'll be honest.
cautionary tale time:
about a decade ago i had my most stellar hour when it comes to really, no REALLY!!! making a clown out of myself. wont go into the full story, but it started with being in a completely new social environment and bringing my personal disdain and hatred for a neighbor lady (that simply wasnt fainting over the thought of going to bed with me) to those new people, at that point still strangers. followed by a much bigger meltdown over a heartbreak thing and that i took even more out into the public. i didnt air my dirty laundry, no, it was diarrhea soaked laundry i showed to everyone. figuratively.
you do this only once. at SOME point either people stop talking to you OR you will bit by bit realize on your own that this understanding smile and patient listening is just self-control to not outright vomit into your face. because thats what youre doing. you vomit emotionally onto people without a warning.
lesson learned. i hope.
maybe.
I know that in Tibet it's a part of culture to tell another person when you meet them about your problems so that they see how resilient you are, I think it's when people first meet tho (heard it on lingthusiasm podcast)
I really appreciate your proposal of how to be a good listener. But there is one important detail to keep in mind: The method was developed by the police to deal with problematic individuals, and as such in its nature is interested in establishing the own goals through psychological means. In real life, you mostly seek to maintain a healthy equal-level relationship. This relationship is bidirectional and you do not want to force your thoughts onto others through psychological tricks. I think the method is still good for this, but the big change i propose is not to have a clear goal in mind, but rather use the questions to better explore their situation, which may in turn also change your advice/goal at the end. A constructed example: They never told you they got hit by their partner, so at the start you think the complaining is hypocrisy and your goal is to keep them together. But after the talk you may need to reaccess you own standpoint.
Love this. So relevant for a wide range of situations eg with partners, friends but also political, business or health related consultations too.
Nothing good has ever come of me telling my feelings to other people. I have learned that my pain is not welcome in others hearts. I don't even try anymore. I actively try to just suppress.
As a person with ADHD I can tell you that venting is not a downhill spiral or domino like. It's more like making a step into the bottomless pit
5:30 in and I’m in absolute stitches 😂. I love laughing at myself, laughing at humanity and our struggles which is precisely why I’m subscribed. Newel of Knowledge nails our nincompoopery.
I like this. It’s like you’re taking emotional dumping and turning into focused problem solving. It was a bit hard to understand how to effectively lead the conversation this way, but I’m going to give it a shot the next time I get the chance!
This video isn't about venting. It's about problem solving. We all vent but we rarely listen to the solutions we vent about. I've lost friends because they vent to me, I give them perfectly sound advice and they go out of their way to do the exact opposite. Maybe if I knew some of the things in this video I could have actually helped them.
Firslly I think your videos are really awesome.
Secondly people who vent have an emotional need to process whatever they are going through, and if you choose not to talk about whatever problems you have you will find it much harder to process them. You are rigjt about needing the correct foil, and I'm wondering if it's possible to help oneself when venting by telling your foil what you want from them.
Thirdly, when you're asking the ventor some questions, I've played with the idea of asking targeted hypothetical questions such as "what would happen you feel if you were to do xyz?" I've found hypotheticals a very effective negotiating strategy in business matters in some circumstances and I'm sure the same could be said for personal matters with a bit of thought and delicacy.
I Like how you explain everything in open sentences, one of my favorites.
Listening and validating to someone in distress does not equal co-rumination.. and I find it fascinating that you liken “listening and validating” to a hostage situation.
There’s nothing more empowering than listening to someone express their feelings without offending advice. It really helps to build and fortify deep emotional bonds between people, which is the most valuable thing a human can have.
I'm always looking for advice if I'm venting - moaning without action is a waste of energy.
Hello Lewis! I sincerely hope all is well in life.
Even when it is cold! 🥶
I have found myself in this loop so many times
I’m laughing at it, because I never knew what it was and what it meant why I came away from venting feeling worse.
Now I know, and I feel relived I’m not alone in this, as you experienced this to!
I’m glad we can practice this on ourselves especially if we do not have someone who could do it this way for us.
So thank you for adding that!
Keep being awesome! You and your channel make me smile!
Thank you!
❄️🩵🌲
Id love to see a video about how to be able to focus and study , why is it so hard to even start to study especially when you grow up as a gifted kid that have never had the necessity to do so
Helping someone work toward a solution is wonderful, my advice is that you ask them if they need or want your advice. They may already have a solution formulated. The need to listen and be heard (when appropriate )is human and necessary. Suppressing painful emotions causes a variety of mental and physical issues. Narcissists tend to be uncurious and generally bored when listening, to gain control back, they typically offer unsolicited advice. …and Co ruminating is a different animal. This video lacks the context and specifics, venting can mean many things
What if I want to attract the people who don’t mind venting to people. They seem like kinder people.
Its hard to find such people nowadays, kindness is rare
I love you and your channel ❤
I'm not British, but I have a British friend who practices reflective listening with me. Honestly, I find it really frustrating, and I can't seem to get him to stop.
I’d rather people just listen without repeating everything I say like a parrot-it’s incredibly annoying.
I guess it's a cultural difference, but I still love him 😊.
Edit: Oh, I see the problem now! He should reflect back to me in his own words instead of just repeating what I say. Got it!
Thank you again for such valuable life lessons 👍👍👍
I used to have the problem that i was venting about stuff that didn’t directly affected me. General societal issues, political issues, etc. So a solution had less than zero chance to show itself, no matter what the other did.
Most people were kinda grey rocking me, just listening hoping i’d shut up soon. One day a friend of mine completely snapped, justifiably so. That shocked me so much that i started doing some introspection.
Turns out my doomscrolling on reddit and my watching of movie critics on YT (already filtered to the more nuanced ones) had me completely radicalized. I even started looking for related issues, when they weren’t even there.
I promised that friend I’d never return to those subjects ever again, both when he’s around and not, and cut out all the yt critics. So far it’s been going well. I’m now working on the doomscrolling as whole. The refered to issues are still there, but i’m not looking at them anymore. Which sounds very egotisical, but is purely to keep myself sane.
the exredpill sub sounds useful to you
@ thankfully, i wasn’t that far gone. I never looked down on people from certain groups, i was mainly critical to how media (movies and series) would go about stuff like representation and stuff like that. The forced feel of certain writing, or the forced inclusion by changing something that already exists for the sake of changing it. Stuff that SHOULD make you go “ok” and move on, made me roll my eyes. And i even started questioning original characters. I won’t fully blame critics, as i also have responisibility for my own thoughts, but they certainly didn’t help shaping my view.
I would like to reiterate that I’d never look down, put down, or discriminate in any way against people with different race, religion, sexuality or identity. I was just critical on the media’s interpretation and application. I just feel like if people keep focusing on something, insisting that it’s special, it’ll never be seen as normal. I’d never buy into the shithole that is the red pill ideology. In fact, i had no idea what exactly it stood for until I googled it just now. I just heard some stuff about it and decided it was way too extreme to even look further into.
I’m healing and now it’s my responsibility to keep going this path. Both for the sake of my own mental health, and my relationship with the people around me. Thank you for the recommendation, though.
EDIT: Looked a bit further into the exrepill sub, and i feel like immersing myself, or even just exposing myself, to certain rhetoric, will just make me spiral again. I know that I’ll just start spewing anti-redpill rhetoric to people who either have no idea what it is, or don’t want to talk about it. Which was the main issue to begin with. I have a tendency to hyperfocus and really deep dive into stuff like that, so I’ll probably be better off just not paying attention to it at all.
You just describe me. This is how my life is everyday. Stressed. Miserable. Annoyed. Not depressed just unhappy. When i vent i feel better. But i never thought how the other person views me when i vent to them.
Theres an optional way to negotiate in business where you use "force and pressure", also these negotations can be slightly psychologically violent. I see that in a lot of leaders and negotatiors in the corporate world. Personally I have fought back by "putting people in order". I like these soft skill videos, as they are a more human way to negotiate, and defuse conflict.
Plenty of conclusions were jumped by this gentleman I see. One is the necessary linearity of thought, the other disbelief of the other when they say they understand. By jove, even if one cannot completely understand another, saying it helps, believe or not.
Makes me realize that I can’t confide on anyone even in my family because my voice naturally rises when I’m venting. Having a high pitch automatically lowers their opinion of you 😭
I think when youre venting at someone who you think would have lower opinion of you for it, your expecting a fight, and your body naturally goes in heightened response, that includes becoming higher pitch. You can’t really control that part. What you can control is who you think it’d be safer to vent to regarding context you’re in. Sometimes, like with not so receiving family, it can be hard to find that safety. But you’ll find it, as long as you’re continuing your own quest.
Venting helped me get perspective i was bouncing of feelings. the thing you mentioned 3 minutes in is depending on who are you venting to and how and what for rather than venting itself.
For me I end up venting because I always feel like I only get to say 90% of what I need to share. Sometimes people cut me off with advice, sometimes I feel like I will be judged if I share my full story, so I end up keeping venting because there is the remaining 10% I never share that I also do know is the key to get better. Sometimes we just need to get everything fully out, so we can feel like every part is heard and seen
Some people don't want unsolicited advice? I'm trying to stop doing it.
Such people are secretly very arrogant.
This is pretty toxic. It is manipulation and pretending an inability to empathize is actually care. I get that some people get stuck in the comfortableness of being gloomy and stuck (excusing them not taking action), but they are then exhibiting signs of a greater problem - pure lack of confidence that may be rooted in trauma.
In the wrong hands definitely can be used for manipulation.
However I would argue if ones intention is to just help without any gains, this is a skill and flow helps in removing misunderstandings, even help to be more empathetic to the person venting, and give a solution that have both listener and venter to find something that suits and help the venter, and not something that the listener gains from
I say this being someone that used to and always keep making misunderstandings despite wanting to help and hurt the person further. What NewelofKnowledge says of using "Why" questions does give misunderstandings of being intrusive is really true.
As for empathy there is a lot of different types of it and also highly based on one's own experience. I can sympathize someone that went to war, but as someone that have never experienced it, I won't be able to fully and deeply feel. I can try to simulate their events and imagine it, but its a fine line of actually empathizing and projection, giving needless harm inflicted on one self as it takes you away from listening to the venter. Having these curated questions help to really listen tot the venter and what they are saying, clarifying their stance and be there for them.
And if the listener realizes from the queries that they are not fit to help , be it just not having the experience or understanding of the situation, they would know not to give a solution to the issue, can still give other forms of support like a space for them if things hit the fan.
Not everyone is good at being empathetic, it’s not always intentional. It could be their nature or from their experiences. The fact the person is “pretending” to be empathetic may show that they actually do care, instead of just brushing the other person off, at least they are trying to appear empathetic. And sometimes, for those that lack empathy, it’s a learning process, this could potentially teach someone *how* to be empathetic.
The toxicity really depends on the person, maybe the person wants to be helpful for their friend or maybe they just want their friend to shut up.
And please understand that just because a person lacks empathy does not mean that they aren’t sympathetic and understanding. So it doesn’t automatically make them a villain either.
@ the whole point of this exercise as it is being laid out is to make the friend stop complaining and take (the) action that the person this is aimed at deems the x right one - which inherently becomes an issue if that person themselves are unable to empathise, and thus give proper advice. To feign empathy in this manner does more harm than good. You can absolutely be curious and inquisitive regarding the friends struggles (and that could help develop empathy I guess), so why not just do that. Oftentimes the friend needs to work things out together with someone and the answers will come to them from that process. Not feeling alone is the main goal.
They can't be "understanding" if they lack empathy, even if they are sympathetic in nature. But sympathy is rather cheap when it comes to advice.
I dont thing venting is _always_ counterproductive. It depends on who you vent to, how the other person handles the vent, and how you handle their reaction. Its kinda like a skill i guess xD
This is really helpful!
Hopefully will try it out on one of my co-workers who's venting to me everyday and keeps ruining the mood.
Unfortunately I just couldn't put any valuable answers because he didn't even let me to speak.
It depends on the relationship you have. If people know that they can tell you to give it a rest, then it can be fine. Part of caring about someone is caring about the problems that they're having
This video has been a great refresher for me on how to listen and empathize more productively... or advise more empathetically, lol.
I would like to say, however, that I disagree with the very last tip, to ask advice in front of the person you're trying to help, because it is kind of passive aggressive, in my opinion.
I also appreciate how you shared with us how to receive someone who is venting, but you did not clearly establish the first point as being “venting is bad if you do it wrong” through your wording. It came across to me as “sharing your feelings always makes things worse” which is both untrue and would invalidate the rest of your video. Ahem, what I mean is, what were you hoping to convey about venting in the first part of the video?
From my perspective, the sharing of emotions and recieving validation from others isn't bad, but it becomes annoying when done excessively without an intent to improve (leaves the listener helpless and the venter continuously frustrated as mentioned). Regardless of whether you share or not, if you're not ready to take strides to change your situation, you will feel worse regardless! I wish that this was stated more clearly instead of focusing on the sharing itself being the issue. The studies may be showing a correlation between people who vent a lot and people who don't know how to validate their own feelings and aren't ready to take action.
Thanks for reading my two cents!Stay playful and dangerous 🫡
This is brilliant. Inherently, I know all of this but could never explain it this well. Thank you.
@4:50 I saw an orange tabby sitting on a mahogany floor in dim lighting, relaxing. It reminded me of a house I lived in during college.
Disagree. Yes, many people react to venting like you described, annoyed. But that is because people are stupid. If you can read between the lines, you can learn much about world and the person talking. That can be useful.
Venting feels like a hostage negotiation, because you are being held emotionally hostage.
@@humans_do_stuff This is highly individual. I would never want my partner thinking they were emotionally holding me hostage in looking for emotional support, I'm happy and honored to do it.
@@AZ-ty7ub Haven't you watched the video? "Venting" implies a need for validation of our own emotions from others regardless if we are right or not. The whole act of "venting" is highly individualistic and selfish by nature. The whole thing is highly irrational, this is "why venting is always a bad idea." Congratz on your virtue signaling, another trait of highly egoic individuals who think they are perfect but are just projecting their need for validation from others.
@humans_do_stuff Assuming so much about the psychology of a stranger based on one comment, accusing them of virtue signaling and, good lord, being a highly egoic individual, does not speak to good things of your judgement.
Be wiser and have more compassion, projection is always obvious and you're better than that.
@@AZ-ty7ub Keep going... you are only proving my point.
@@humans_do_stuff @humans_do_stuff Zoom out for a moment and imagine someone else is watching this unfold in real life.
You've read a single comment from someone you'll never know, and you're telling them you've got an entire psychological profile on them?
It's a little funny is all I'm saying.
Cheers.
This seems very much like the Socratic method. There are two facets to that method from the famous philosopher:
1. The first is that during (or perhaps before) a debate, Person A should be able to explain Person B's perspective, to Person B's satisfaction (and vice-versa).
2. The second is the notion of asking questions which push the other person into framing their own beliefs in words - so as to illustrate the consequences of these beliefs.
Hey Lewis, I just had an idea: I've listened to Hubermans Dopmain/Motivation Podcast just now and it was said that most dopamine addictions effects last about 30 days...How about you start a trend like the nnn but just with your phone? For example f*ck phone february :) In that month you'd not be allowed to doomscroll or do other things that wouldnt be considered productive👀
Maybe all that needs a little or a lot of tweaking but I kinda like the idea :) I dont even need to share credit, I just think it would be a great idea😃
Thanks so much for the video!! Love your energy! And your authenticity shines through also and it’s very refreshing. Keep up the great content 😊
Even the Bible states that the "fool vents all his wrath."
IMO the "journalistic" questioning and probing is not empathic at all, as illustrated by the fact that it does trigger the awkward emotions associated with the events in question.
To me it seems more like morbid, almost sadistic curiosity to figure out where exactly you fell short. It may be a staple of certain kinds of therapy, but that is not what I am looking for in a friend.
I already know things didn't go well, and have plenty of awkward emotions and intrusive thoughts already thank you very much, so pestering me for juicy intel about the various stages of humiliation just so you can point our the error of my ways doesn't do anything for me. Nobody needs that.
An empathic response would be along the lines of: not succeeding at every random scenario doesn't mean you are a failed human.
Your hair looks good when it's longer like this.
Yes!!!
omg so this is what good therapists do!!! I recognise the steps from therapy lol. Mind blown. I would love to be able to do this for my friends :)
I love hearing people rant. Makes me feel I'm not in a world of robots, people actually do go through difficulties in life.
Like I go out my way to find content of people ranting. "Jerma rants" videos is liquid dopamine
You feel with them, lean into the emotion, make them feel heard and validated. You use empathy, then you start detaching emotionally a little bit and look at things from bigger and multiple perspectives. Giving you more clarity. Me and my lil sis have perfected this. I‘m a gemini who loves to understand all perspectives, but my aries moon is hella impulsive. Here is where my sister complements me; my sister has an aquarius stellium, she is much better at detaching from emotions and seeing the big picture; while staying her empowered empathic self. I always feel good sharing with her and usually feel empowered and even more compassionate after talking with her.
Never ask why he says, asks why in the title. Top level thinking there!
hahaha great spot
Looking good, Newel.
This is based on the video's title mostly.
I saw a short on this from Healthy Gamer GG (have yet to fully watch THIS video) but in his short video, he basically said that when you vent, you make it to be "done with" in your brain, so you won't put effort into changing things, because in your brain "it's already sort of resolved". It was a big moment for me, because it unlocked this part of me that could, in weird terms, make "shame" useful for me as a tool to get out of my bed instead of just trying to "digest" the shame. In other words, when I felt ashamed, instead of trying to just get it off my chest, I could actually just do something, motivated by the shame.
Can you please tell me the name of the video which contains the part of the short?
@@bingobongo4561 ok, i think my comment didn't go through " The Neuroscience of Venting @TheDiaryOfACEO" by HealthyGamerGG
there's obviously more to it than just "DON'T VENT!" (it's a short after all), but essentially, if you recognize you are in a cycle of venting, that's the point you should begin to potentially use your negative emotions for action.
I’m confused by this video. So is venting always a bad idea or not? It seems like corumination is a bad idea based on your claims but not venting
Great point. I'd say there's a caveat; venting is always going to be a bad idea if the person you're venting to is either just being empathic or just being practical. Venting will be useful if you vent to someone who first shows you empathy and then helps you alter your perspective. Thanks for pointing this out.
6:12 Those studies don't sound like randomized controlled trials, so they might not be able to distinguish correlation from causation. In other words, maybe people vented *because* they had less patience left or felt more need to vent, as opposed to suffering *because* of having vented.
your content is amazing, and the comic touches here and there are a big cherry on top!
What if you need someone to talk to?
The last time this happened to me on the phone with a "friend" he talked for 60 min straight, he did not give me any opportunity to say anything, then ended it with insulting me and hung up. That was that I guess. Gosh I kept him around for way too long.
I don't mind a 10 to 20 min vent if someone is really distressed.
My parents vent to me but instead of venting they yell at me and blame me for everything and tell me I am a loser. A few days ago they were upset about a public toilet that was dirty so they yelled at me. For some reason the venting of my friends is more pleasant to listen to. I notice myself complaining all the time and hate myself for it. I have realised I am complaining
Here is a way to vent:
Write it to Claude 3.5 sonnet. It's more human that I am and I think you can learn from it. Really they trained it well for having this human touch.