243 Winchester vs 7mm?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 лис 2024
- Subscribe to my channel: bit.ly/RonSpome...
Affiliate Links:
Handbook for Hunters and Shooters.
amzn.to/3aOXQOM
Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-C, 12" Targets, Adhesive, See Hits Instantly
amzn.to/3Fv8yat
Outback Trading 1472 Kodiak
amzn.to/3jHKsjp
Eberlestock X2 Pack
amzn.to/30ZwZ0O
Smartwool Trekking Crew Socks - Men’s Heavy Cushioned Wool Performance Sock
amzn.to/3l2flRb
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdo...
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Rifles chambered for .243 can be found practically in every place dedicate to selling firearms. Amo in .243 caliber can be found the same way... I vote, and I am using, the .243 for lots of years without any problem in every sport specie in the EU, and with my age, I will keep using it this sweet and accurate round until the day the Lord calls me... Thank you for this video, as informative as all your postings...
I like the idea of .243, 7mm-08 and .260 Remington. The 7x57 Mauser and 6.5x55 Mauser showed us all we needed to know about those last 2 bore sizes. The .243 Win. and 6mm Remington showed us their merits for 60+ years already. It takes so darned little to be a reasonable to perfect deer capable cartridge. We collectively deluded ourselves for decades and generations about what constitutes a deer cartridge. Truth is, our hands down favorites, .270 and .30-06 are ridiculously powerful for deer. Seriously. They don't kill deer any better than stuff much milder and friendly. The .30-30 puts them in the freezer about as well as anything ever made, just as long as we place our shots and don't exceed 200 yards. The stick and string boys and girls and the traditional muzzleloader crowd taught us a thing or two about that as well.
Marketing has been perfected over time and has done a good job of convincing us that we need need "new and improved". I can't think of a single cartridge introduced in the last fifty years that has been terribly useful to the hunting community. The improvements in all other aspects of cartridge production have solved the problems we have had to endure for so long. They make the older rounds competitive with the newer ones. I still like my .30-30 and .270 as much as ever...
👌
My hunting rifle is a .270 Winchester, and I started handloading for it this year. Since all my hunting is within 150 yards, I decided to go for a very mild load, which happens to be the most accurate load I've worked up. It's a 140 grain Interlock bullet doing a tame 2710 fps out of the barrel. I took one buck with it already, and like you said, that much milder load killed the buck just as well as the full-power, factory ammo I've used in the past. And the extra power is always there should I need it.
Yep, I have every cartridge available to me if I want it, I still hunt with a 45/ 70
My Fav has been the 270 for 30+ years, But the day has come where this ol lady's shoulder will not let me shoot the 270 any more. So I have had to move down to the 243. I have come to love the round. I am even going to get a henry 357. then we will see which i like the best.
I hunted many years with the 30-06 and got my Grandson started with a 243 after watching him drop several deer in their tracks I was convinced we now both hunt with 243s
Both are fantastic but I've used my trusty 243 for 40 years so I think I will stick with it.
I had a 7mm-08 for my oldest son. When my youngest son drew his first elk tag at 11, and him being much smaller in stature, I found some Hornady 120gr reduced recoil SST and had him shoot it. It did the job at 385 yards.
The oldest son shot his first elk when he was 14 with Hornady 140gr American Whitetail at 425 yards.
Both rounds put the elk on the ground the same as if it was shot by a magnum cartridge.
I just took a 213 lb. dressed Maine buck, with my daughters .243 with 95gr. Hornady SST bullets, and it did so wonderfully. Thanks for all you do Ron.
Our daughter just took 3 Texas doe with her 243 in a Remington 700 with the same ammo.
@@keithlucas6260 The 3 Texas deer might weigh a combined 213lbs lol ;)
@@Aaron-mn8gw ...some hit up to 100 lbs each with the bucks weighing more.
Too bad the ignorant uninformed hunters shoot the "biggest" thus killing off that gene pool.
Keith, that old canard about hunters ruining the gene pool has been disproven time and time again. Just that fact that we've established new world records for every species of big game in N.A. in the past 40 years supports this. Whitetails and elk are larger than ever. The key is letting them get old enough to reach full potential. the genetics are always there. Hope you get a big one.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Not exactly, 40 years ago we didn't have as many "farmed deer". Most of the large bucks with ridiculous racks are not the product of a natural environment. Canned hunts are a pet peeve of mine. Its not so much a hunt as it is an execution. This is not to say hunters are to blame. Far more deer are killed each year by highway accidents.
My daughter has tagged 2 elk with her .243 . First elk was ranged at 193 yards and the 2nd elk the following year ranged at 202 yards. She’s a very confident shooter and got the job done.
I’ve taken 2 elk with 243 both were 120 yards one of them was a running shot and my grandpa used his 243 for moose and his longest shot on a wooden was 420 yards dropped in its tracks
It’s crazy how confident daughters can be when shooting. My father gifted my daughter a browning x-bolt in 270 when she turned 14. She learned it inside and out within 100 rounds. She took a great whitetail buck at 487 yards, it ran less then 20 yards and piled up. I had to drag it back though…. I told her that “it better have a drop tine next time I drag a deer that far down a river bed” lol. Sorry for reminiscing.
I switched from a 30-06 to 7-08mm after my neck surgery-fantastic caliber out to 400 meters. Even better under 100! Light kick great terminal velocity
I relegated my .270Win to a ready back-up to my 7mm-08. Zero regrets. An absolute dream to shoot.
The older I get, the more I appreciate
the 243 and lighter rifles.
At 71 years young all my big bore rifles are mostly safe queens now. I like my 243 and my old body likes the 243 even more so.
@@TerryLee04950 what calibers are safe queens now?
@@adamshaw8214 338 375H&H. 45-70. 35whelen and a my Ruger 44Mag Alaskan with a custom 2 and half inch bbl. That was my ccw of choice. Now all I need is my S&W 38 special snub nose. I don’t have the heart to part with any of them. Now I’m back in Maine. I do miss the 20 years in Alaska.
@@adamshaw8214 I would guess 30-06, 7mm mag and up. they are kickers......fired one today.
Iam with you on light and soft recoil
I’ve taken 5 elk in Wyoming with my 243. Some out to 450 yards. I’ve used the rifle since I got it at the age of ten on everything from black bears In Alaska, to muleys, white tails, antelope(pronghorn). It’s a great cartridge and if you can shoot well and have an accurate rifle, game as big as elk within 500 yards are no problem for the 243. Definitely an underrated cartridge.
My niece has taken two elk with her 7/08. I handloaded 139gr Hornady Interlocks for it and they worked very well. Both elk were put down with one shot, one of them needed a 2nd to finish it off but that was due to a bad angle more than the terminal performance. Both shots were roughly 200yds IIRC. I own both and personally wouldn't take a 243 elk hunting but wouldn't hesitate to take my Zastava 7mm-08. That said, my primary Elk rifle is my .280Rem loaded with 160gr Nosler partitions.
Mr. Ron I asked you about coming down from a 270 to a 243. You Kind Sir told me also to look at the 6.5 Grendel. I did that and was going to get it. Problem was no ammo. So what I got was a Henry Long Ranger in 243. I am so grateful for what you put on UA-cam. Ho my gosh Thank You.
I really enjoy .243 and 7mm-08 in lightweight/mountain rifles.
7mm08!!! Hodgdon has a load recipe for 120 gr bullets, H4895 at 2200fps for young/small shooters. I loaded those for my daughter and as she grew I increased the load. Now she is shooting full load 140gr rounds, all using the same rifle.
I got the 7mm-08 for my daughters. Hornady makes 120 gr bullets for it and there is a published load at about 2500fps if I recall that kicks about the same as the .243. It will take deer to 200 yards. That's what I have them shoot on the bench but generally I give them full strength loads in the field and in that situation, they don't notice the kick. BTW, I have killed elk w/ my 7mm-08 using the 140 gr bullets.
Love your first comment about starting youth on these. However, after multiple surgeries and 45 years of hunting, I am finding myself going back to my 243. My Dad gave it to me, at age 14. Dead is dead, if shot placement is good. Thank you for your videos.
243 , so versatile! 55 grain at 4000 fps to 100 grains at 3000 fps.
We drop mule deer up to 200lbs + with the .243 all day long. Preffered bullet to do so is the 80gr barnes ttsx. 1 shot 1 kill never had 1 go past 30 yards so far. Always double lung 🫁 / heart ❤ shots.
What kind of fps are you getting with that load?
@@MatthewinGooseneck a little north of 3300fps. Out to 350 yards it's easy money for the .243 vs any size deer. 80gr ttsx works great. I run a 180gr barnes ttsx in my .300wby and that bullet workes great for me too. Super accurate and always 1 shot kill. Lol overkill. Don't recommend it on deer under 200lbs. Better for elk bear moose ect...
I'm not a hunter but everybody swears by Barnes TTSX
@@dimmacommunication I've had great success with the barnes ttsx and hornady gmx.. both good in my book.
I can never quite understand how there are some people in the U.S. that think the .243 is too light for Whitetail, where it’s one of the most popular cartridges I live in Australia for Red Stag which is a hell of a lot bigger.
I've got rifle calibers for days. Some built back as far as 1875 and some as new as 2020. My favorite caliber for mos hunting is the 6.5x55 SE. However, I have a soft spot for the 243 Winchester. Outside of the 6.5x55 SE, I've never seen anything "magically" die after being hit in the boiler room like the .243 Win. Just an amazing little Cartridge. BTW, my daughter dropped her largest buck to date, as of last year, with the 243 Win. Good luck and stay safe!! 😉
I’ve had never favored the .243 as I never trusted that small caliber. That said, my sister who did not start hunting until much older than I did, dropped a nice 10 point white tail on the run at 125 yards her very first time out. Rolled him up like a rug with one shot. Needless to say I changed my opinion on the .243 (and was a little jealous as I doubt I could have made that shot with a lot more hunting experience).
My first big game hunting rifle was a 6mm Remington. I am an elk hunter and I never even thought I didn't have enough rifle. The 6mm Remington is just slightly longer case with a little edge on velocity, not much. Accuracy is superb.
My favorite cartridge is and always will be the 7mm-08 Remington. It definitely should be more popular than it is. Just seemed like many writer's painted it into a corner. Great for youths/ladies! I don't believe they write that about the Creedmoor. Which is very similar and actually falls right between these two wonderful cartridges.
Thanks for sharing this brother 🙂
7-08 isn't just a great cartridge for youth and lady hunters, it's a great choice for us old geezers who suffer various ailments associated with a lifetime of hard use.
@@doghousedon1 lol... That's where I fit in :)
My favorite also, I handload using. 120gr works wonderfully, not much punch to the shoulder, my go to always. 243 isnt bad either, have used both, but 105gr is needed to work well on mulies. Use the proper tools is the thing to remember. Thanks Ron, great job as usual 👍
does 7mm-08 kick less than 308 ?
@@dimmacommunication Depends on the rifle weight, heavier corresponds to less felt recoil. I dont notice it with my Browning Abolt with 120gr, but I also have a 338 WinMag that doesnt bother me under 10 rounds of firing. 308 in an M14 type is easy stuff, but if you utilize a lighter rifle then you will notice the difference. I'm an old shooter so have thousands of various rounds, the only one that kicked my butt was a Scandium pistol in 357mag, sold it after 3 shots. Mega ouch.
Used the 243 for years, the performance is amazing once you actually see what it does. I’ve been intrigued with the 7-08 just haven’t added to my collection yet. As always thanks for your videos 👍🏼
You'll love it when you dial in your loads, dime shooter for sure.
I started my two boys with 7mm08 Model 7 Remingtons. They both shot their first mule deers with them and a year later one drew an either sex elk tag in central MT. He killed a 6pt, bull at 100yds with one well placed shot with that 7-08. I was so impressed with the results, along with the lighter recoil and weight of the rifle that I now own a 7-08 in a nice Bergara B-14. Great all around cartridge IMO. Nice vid Ron, thanks
My boy took his first deer this year. 10 years old, Wisconsin youth hunt. I carried that same rifle during the regular gun deer season, youth model 7-08. I was so impressed by his results, I set down my 30-06 in favor of the weight savings.
That's awesome! Tell that young man a fellow deer hunter from MI said congratulations!
My first rifle as well. Model 7, still got it. Have added a couple more 7-08s since then
I feel it depends on the part of the country. If you are in the south the deer tend to be on the smaller side of the scale. If your in the northern states the deer are usually more heavy bodied. Both are darn fine cartridges. I personally have a 243 because I came across it at the right price. You made some excellent points about the versatility of both. Stay free and keep your powder dry!
7-08 is a great whitetail cartridge. Most of my years I shot .280’s but now I’m older (smarter) , my ‘08 is my main whitetail rifle. My 140 gr Accubonds hand loads are impressive and lethal!
I don't get the older/wiser switching from a 280? I have all three, enlighten me please
@@williamrauch4464 I handload and shoot quite a bit and the recoil is considerable after a few hours of shooting 4-5 times a month. When you shoot 1-2 rounds at game it’s un noticeable but after several rounds it’s hard on the shoulder at my age. Have not lost a step on harvesting game. BTW, my favorite cartridge is a .280 AI with a brake.
@@johnkaraphillis754 that makes sense and I agree
I love my .280 Remington ( great choice for hand loaders ) but , finding factory ammunition is a tough chore these days , which is why I’d go with a 7mm-08 for the new shooter .
I'm with you there. I was shooting a .270Win and switched to 7mm-08. Fantastic for whitetail. One of these years I want to take it elk hunting. Hopefully I can draw an elk tag in the Michigan lottery one day.
I've been shooting for 50+ years. never shot either the 243 or the 7mm-08. And you're right. My first time shooting was when I was 8 years old. An uncles 1903 Springfield from the prone. He was surprised I hit the target. Now I'm over 60 and arthritis is starting to take it's toll. Looks like that 243 is getting kind of attractive to me. Thanks for a very informative video.
My grandson has been successful with the same 243 rifle his father started with. Everyone of us have used one shot to take game. It's a tack driver
I’ve got a first year of manufacture Browning BLR in .243 Winchester. I carried it in the deer woods from ages 9 to about 13 when I switched to a Ruger M77 in .270 Winchester. The thing I love about the BLR is that even with a scope in weighs maybe 6 pounds. It’s a joy to carry in the field.
What a way to spark a debate-rifle calibers! 😂
Opening weekend I heart shot a decent buck at 60 yards & the mature doe he was following ran towards me. Heart shot her at 40 yards. I shoot a Savage .243 1:9.25 twist rate w/100 grain Core-Lokts. Doe ran about 40 yards & the buck ran about 15. Other bucks I’ve taken w/.243 dropped in their tracks. I aim straight up the front leg, a little less than middle of the body high & pull the trigger.
New hunter in our group took 3 shots at a buck w/ 30-06 at 30 yards & deer ran another 50 yards before it dropped. Same hunter, same 30-06, shot a small doe at 110 yards, blew her chest wide open on both sides & the small doe still ran 60 yards & jumped the fence. Butcher said “you’re not gonna get much meat off this one”.
Guess every shooter & situation is different. The debate will go on forever. Glad we all have choices. The 30-06’rs I hunt w/ think .243 is too small. But I’ll take the accuracy & what I’m comfortable with. I’ll show them when I tag the Da Turdy Pointer 🦌. Great video.
Took my first whitetail at 11 with a 7mm-08. Been in love with that cartridge ever since!
Just dropped my first cow elk (600 lbs) with my S&W .243 at 160 yrds, awesome rifle. I will probably retire my 30.06.
There's also a Remington AR-10 platform they chambered in 243, 7mm-08, or 308. Don't make them anymore but they're pretty cool.
Just acquired a Browning BLR 243, unfortunately due to my father's passing but do look forward to shooting some deer with it next year.
Sorry to hear about your father.. he'll be right there with you no matter where you are!
Carrying your father's firearms is a blessing as well
My condolences about your father. May your father's Browning bring you good luck in the future!
Aletuott chsu j
Aletuott chsu j
chsu j
When I started it was shotgun slug only territory. That puts me in the .458 recoil range.
LOL
I must agree with your concept of starting the kids out with light recoiling rifles and working them up gradually in power. Fifty years ago when I was 10 years old my cousin applied that shooting learning curve with me. A year later when 11, I shot a pronghorn in Wyoming at a little over 200 yards with a borrowed Remington 700 in .270 Have been hooked on the shooting sports and hunting ever since! Thanks for the proper instruction to future hunters and shooters.
My first hunting rifle was a Winchester 88 in 243. From a 20 gage to a 243 at age 14 and I’m still using that rifle 44 years later.
I started my deer hunting many decades ago with the 243. I found that any marginal hit made for a difficult recovery... If successful at all. I graduated to bigger rifles, 7mm mag, 300 Win mag, and 338 win mag. Then, I discovered the 7mm-08 and have fallen in love. Where I live we have big northern Canada woods deer, and the bucks usually dress north of 200 pounds... You had better hit them very well with the 243 or it will be a tracking job. In my experience, the 7mm bullet makes that much larger of a wound and there is a very noticeable difference on how deer react to the hit.... It's simply the increase in diameter that makes the difference. A 120 grain 7mm-08 round kills deer far more efficiently than say the 100 grain 6mm round.... I have decades of experience to rely on. As far as recoil.... A medium charge behind a 120 grain 7mm bullet is the ticket for young shooters. In fact, a close female acquaintance of mine takes an elk every year with 120 grain Barnes TTSX bullets and there has never been a tracking job needed.. So yeah.... I am all 7mm-08 for beginners... And even me when it comes to deer. Here is something to think about: I shoot 150 grain accubond Long Range bullets in mine... That gives me 1458 foot pounds of energy at 500 yards with 2875 fps at the muzzle. The 243 can't come anywhere near this. I vote for the 7mm-08 simply because it is a far better killer.... And beginners need a bit of an edge in that category.
I agree. 243 and 22-250 are great coyote cartridges. I prefer 264/6.5mm or bigger on midsize game.
Longest run was a Kansas whitetail. Most drop in their tracks. Never had to track one. 95 grain ballistic tips
For myself I tend to use a real old timer..7mm Mauser. Biggest issue is that you have to handload to get more efficient bullets.
Reloading changes everything, it gives you way more possibilities and allows you to maximize the capabilities of your firearm.
The 243 will lay them low everytime you make a good hit... I was referring to marginal shots... On our big deer it spells trouble. But yes, I know a fellow who uses 243 for elk and moose.... Claims he hasn't lost any.
The 7-08 is good for old deer hunters too. Shot a nice 8 point Saturday morning at about 315 yards. Complete pass through with 139 grain hornady interlocks. Only went 30 yards.
Both are GREAT Guns, and good choices for new hunters...BUT...I'd add the 25-06 and 257 to the lineup as well!!! Soooooooooooo many AWSOME Deer Hunting Rifles out there (357-44MAG, 30-30, 35, 6.5, 270, 280, 308, 30-06 etc... etc... etc...), with the 350 Legend (Straight Wall Casing States), earning a name for itself as well...Just depends on what other applications you want to use the gun for as well. And yes, the 223/556 (Where Legal), is a Great Deer Rifle as long as you're using the proper ammunition with accurate shot placement!!!
Winchester publishes a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps for the 243 with loaded with 95 grain bullets, and 2800 fps for the 7mm-08 with 140 grain bullets for different types of factory ammo, giving the 243 a slight MPBR advantage for deer size game.
At the muzzle, but down range the 7-08 higher BC bullet will retain velocity longer. The 243 100gr bullet has a low BC and will lose a lot of energy past 200 yards.
I have been using the 243 now for the past five years and I love it I put more big bucks down with it then any other big gun Ruger makes a great gun thanks I love watching your program Harry
What load do you use ?
Ron,
Just watched your .243 Win vs, 7mm-08 Rem. comparison video. You always do a great job in these videos.
You were emphasizing using either of those calibers for beginning shooters to minimize recoil so they can concentrate on trigger control and shooting mechanics. A great reason. But I've been shooting and hunting for many years (.22 LR to 300 Win Mag) and love my .243 and 7mm-08 for shooting all morning at the range for fun. One is a bolt, the other a lever. Shoot one after the other and no need for a pad or ibuprofen afterward! I like shooting my .308 Win and 30-06, but not more than 20 rounds at a time! So, for recreational shooting (plates, silhouettes, gongs) at least, I enjoy the lower recoil of the .243 and 7mm-08.
7mm-08 all day. My wife used a .243 for a while. My nephew used a 7mm-08. Both took deer with good heart shots. The 7mm dropped them where they stood like my .30-06 does. The .243... not so much. Lot of tracking involved.
Nephew kept the 7mm. Wife traded her .243 for a 6.5 Creedmoor.
Honestly, I'd go 7mm-08 over the 6.5 Creedmoor, too.
7mm-08,257roberts,6,5x55 25/06 etc are all Better rounds than the new whizbang 6,5. IMHO...if we want to be honest thou most don't need anything more than the great ol' 30/30. Also IMHO
@@camwinston5248 I'm curious to know why you think that? I agree with you on 7mm-08, but I'm not tracking the logic with 6.5x55. It's ballistically identical, but 6.5CM seems to be way more available. Are you hand loading maybe? Because even when you consider those two 25 calibers they don't really benefit you ballistically over 6.5, or even a 7 unless you hand load.
@@hammerheadms handload yes..but it is apples n oranges with many of these calibers..as we know it can be very fickle things or a point in time as too what becomes publicly popular..as well companies continue too "reinvent the wheel" too keep selling products..imho case in point the creedmore,it is a good round but it is not all it's hyped to be,there are many many older calibers just as good or Better than..now granted 6,5 IS popular right now..whizbang..because they have really really pushed it..rifles and ammo everywhere..which is a consideration..but heck fire you can't go in and see a 243,270,308 etc..in some box stores at all but for a dozen 6,5s..its a fine round just not all that..Thou bullet placement is the most important of course,,you can take a bull moose with a 22lr placed properly just not the ideal of course..the leaps in bullet tech the last 2 decades have made many marginal for the situation rounds very effective now..243 is an example..im just making the point many rounds are as good or better depending on your NEEDS or situation..7mm/08 is all-around very good for anyone..30-30 is all most really need..i can hunt with anything and have..i personally love the 300wm.
@@camwinston5248 So I'm just trying to understand what makes 6.5x55 better than 6.5CM. To be clear, I do not hand load, and I am looking for a rifle for my kids that has a tame enough recoil for little ones, but is still a viable cartridge for a wide range of game that they will get several years of use out of. For me, 6.5CM looks to be a clear winner. I hunt with a 7mm-08, but I'm not sure it's quite gentle enough for a 10 year old. I know I have seen plenty of rifles still chambered in all the cartridges we have mentioned here, but clearly .243, 7mm-08, and 6.5CM are arguably some of the most common on the shelves (under normal circumstances). I am not convinced that .243 really fits the bill with a lack of heavy bullets, and .257BOB is just too hard to find, not to mention 6.5x55 also. I know there's a lot of good choices out there, but I have 2 small children who will be of age soon that I want to teach how to shoot, and I want something that fulfills the criteria of: can shoot a wide variety of bullets, is light recoiling, is light weight, and readily available on ammo shelves without breaking the bank. Am I just missing something with these other calibers? Believe me I'm not trying to be combative, but unless you are in Europe, I just can't see how 6.5x55 is "better" than 6.5CM. The Creed from all I can see is just a modern American equivalent of the Swede with maybe a slight advantage in bullet selection, and a slight disadvantage with powder capacity.
@@hammerheadms The creedmoor has a higher twist rate barrel than the swede, it stabilizes heavier bullets is my understanding why it’s better long range. I’ve taken two blacktail and a cougar so far with my creedmoor and i could not be happier with results
Wonderful comparison there, Ron. As I have owned and hunted with both these calibers, I have become quite found of each. Although the 7MM-08 is the one I would take if I were to have to choose between the two. As you pointed out, there are heavier bullets available for hunting heavier bodied game. There is also much lighter recoiling ammo available. Such as the 120gr SST by Hornady, for new shooters and the recoil sensitive, as well. I always used the 139gr SST and they are just incredible. Both rifles had 20" barrels too. Making them each perfect calibers for a scout-rifle style set-up.
Have you ever tried 139gr SST on elk? I'm wondering if it's heavy enough past 150 yards, or would 150-160gr be smarter?
@@hammerheadms Both the 139gr SST and the 150gr ELD-X are holding above 2000 ft. lbs of energy @ 200 yards. Plenty enough to do the trick. I personally have not taken any with the 139gr. But I know there are many hunters who have. The 139gr SST has a sectional density of 246 and the 150 is 266. So if you thought you needed more, a 160gr would be the optimum choice. But I would think that within 400 yards the 139gr is ok.
For an inexperienced or young hunter, I like 6.5 grendel with a 123gr SST bullet. It's enough energy for deer inside 200 yards, and has low recoil. I know some people that use a 22-250 too. I prefer the 7-08, 260, or 6.5cm over the 243. We all have our favorites though. A lot of people call the 243 a morning to evening cartridge. Shoot it in the morning and find the deer in the evening. LOL
I think Hornady makes a reduced load with a 120gr bullet for 7-08. It would probably have about the same recoil as a 243.
Just remembered a very famous gun and hunting writer that made very positive remarks about 7mm-08 years ago. He apparently made regular use of 120 grain 7mm bullets if I do recall correctly. Claimed them to be deer medicine excellence. Without even looking that load combo up for exact details, I am sure the numbers would be extremely close to several larger cartridges for velocity and energy in their common loadings. 7mm 120 grain may not be showing Super high sectional density, but the BC would be fine given the average muzzle velocity from a 7mm-08 on top end. And deer don't need AP rounds to totally perforate both lungs and exit on broad sides. Nor do you have to perforate them and exit should a quartering shot be the case.
Just a thought about the 243 and bullets. If you can find them loaded in an 85 grain bullet the ballistics are much better than the 90 or 100’s. I handload and have them with the Sierra Game Kings and Barnes. They are magic!
Of course the 7/08, it's a .284 cal. It'll do anything in the deer woods!!!
Both great cartridges,
With a third more energy, the 7mm-08 will do better on less than ideal shot on larger game animals imo.
If you are a long range shooter you can't get pass the 247!
My first deer rifle was a .30-30 lever gun and I still have it. It is great in the brush and out to 150 yards it is more than capable of dropping the deer. I myself have graduated to the 7mm-08 and I very much enjoy that round. I also have used it for Elk hunting and it is a great round for many game. Your show is great Ron!
Both cartridges have a long history of success; the 243 just has been around longer. If you can give a new shooter a little experience with a few different rifle cartridges then let them chose. I think this is a good idea; just start at lesser levels of recoil. See what they like and let them carry the rifle back and forth from their target at the range. The weight of a rifle has a lot to do with a hunting rifle. A small or young shooter might like shooting a heavy recoiling rifle. They often change their mind once they carry it for a while.🎇🦉🎇
This discussion reminds me a lesson learned in my mid teens. Thought I was all that with my new Remington Shotgun...ran 25 straight first time out. Old fella (80's) had a Fox Double barrel, worn bluing and the varnish long disappeared...yeah you guessed it..it wasnt pretty. He just grinned and said don't feel bad I just have 50 years of practice with this gun. Shoot whatever you shoot well and all will work out. By the way he did shoot an old 30-06 that looked similar in wear. I don't know but I speculate he was pretty good with that also.
Didn’t know much about 7mm 08, but it appears that it certainly packs some oomph. I am a very big .243 fan but there seems to be a lot to like about the 7mm08…Another great vid 👍
The 243 is so easy to hand-load for, and is truly a dual purpose round. The 80 Gr BTSP is perfect for anything smaller than deer, the 100 Gr BTSP is the right medicine for deer sized game. Competition shooters used the 243 , but their twist rates are 1-8 or 1-7. Love working with the 308 and it’s offspring.
Thanks for this recommendation, Ron. These are both excellent cartridges. I like that with the .243 you mention the option of using the cartridge for varmint or predator applications. I like having that option.
Yup the 60 grainer 243 is around 4000fps or 4200 in 55
Personally I like shooting long actions and magnums. I have more fun with them.
That said, I've always recommended the 243 and 7-08 as a civilized, time-tested and proven cartridges.
I can not recommend enough the 120 gr. 7mm TTSX bullet from Barnes. It’s INSANE on mule deer and black bears. Two holes every time. It’s like a little laser beam.
Absolutely agree.... I have dispatched lots of deer with that bullet.... I only recently stepped up to the 150 grain ABLR simply for long range shot capability.
7mm-08 is as small as I will go personally but that's my personal choice. The Grendel and the .243 will kill too. I love a .280 Remington and a .270 wsm though. Devastating on VA whitetail.
To each their own, I have no issue with taking my 5.56 out for deer.
Gday from Australia, 243W are very popular here. Especially for feral pigs and deer. They shoot flat and hit hard. I’ve used one for 20 years and have taken all species up to and including red deer and feral horses (as part of a culling program). These days it’s the go-to rifle for my boys.
What sort of ammo are you running for those game? Have you tried the Australian Outback 87 gr V-MAX?
Ron, it seems to me that back in the late 60s, early 70s when we were kids and getting into hunting and rifles for big game, we learned how to deal with recoil and magnum rifles and never gave it much thought! Just learned what needed to be done and did it.
I raised my son the same way. I think that recoil management is a forgotten art and too many "hunters" have gotten soft.
Modern men in general have gotten very soft.
First deer shot at twelve was with a 7mm rem mag back in 2004.
I’ve got a 7mm rem mag and .243, but I’ll find myself taking the .243 if I can. Less muzzle blast and I can shoot from more positions without worrying about the scope punching me in the eyebrow. I’ll still happily shoot the 7mm rem mag but the 243 is good fun, also need better shot placement which makes it a bit more of a challenge
I agree with everything that has been said thus far..But i also agree people/hunters/MEN have forgotten or never have learned how too handle things like a kicking rifle..i.e.recoil management.
I think it depends on how we learn. Yeah I started with a pellet gun, then a 22lr. Once I was able to shoot small game ethically, my dad said I was ready for deer so he gave me a 20 gauge at the age of 11 and had me practice with it. I didn't end up shooting my first deer until I was 15 but I did it with a 12 gauge 870 express with a 3" magnum slug. Most of my friends won't shoot a shotgun much let alone high brass loads. I'll shoot that stuff all day and I won't be sore since I learned how to manage it. I also learned how to use heavy recoil like that to my advantage for quick follow up shots, especially on small game like squirrels. My cousin still to this day still can't figure out how I shot two squirrels 60 yards away and in 2 different trees with high brass bird shot within a second. We were only 18 at the time, now we're 35 and he still can't replicate it or figure out how I did that. It helps when you shoot hundreds of shot shells every summer. That 870 I have probably has over 10k shells through it since I bought it brand new when I was 18 and I've had to replace the barrel in it and all the finish is completely worn off the action bars, magazine tube where the pump slides, and many spots inside the action. Now days shooting a 300WM ain't much for me but if a shotty isn't right for my area, my gun of choice is either my Winchester lever action 30-30 160 Hornady FTX, bolt action Marlin S7 243 Federal 100 gr sp, or my 7.62x54R w/200 gr sp in a customized Mosin Nagant.
When my grandson wanted to deer hunt, he was flinching with a 100 gr bullet in a 243 so I down loaded to 80 gr & slowed it down a little to about 2200 fps. He took his first buck at 50 yds off hand. one shot the buck never took one step.
Great video as always Ron. I started my son off with 22s when he was old enough to safely hold a rifle and that really cemented his marksmanship fundamentals. We stepped into the .243 when he was 13 and started deer hunting. Unfortunately his Mossberg patriot youth model with a 1 in 10” barrel will simply not stabilize 100 grain bullets. Half of the time they hit the target sideways and won’t hold a 12” group at 100 yards. The 90s and 95 grain bullets do ok (2-3” groups) but with today’s lack of available resources, even as a hand loader, it’s been a challenge to find and keep consistent loads. He’s 15 now and he will be finding a new Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm-08 under the Christmas tree this year. Hopefully we will have better luck with that.
You could try 85 grain bullets in the .243. I have very successfully taken mule deer with them at very decent ranges. It is most certainly enough bullet for a deer but damage can be a bit much. You'll love the 7mm08.
I might add that the 100 grain round nose is one bullet that would stabilize in the .244 Remington when it came out with a slow twist.
The mossberg patriot is notorious for that! Try a Ruger american or even Winchester Xpr
Actually a 7/08 with a 140gr. And a very light rifle like a Savage axis youth 20" will kick about the same as a .308 in a 22"
My boys shoot the youth Remington in 7-08. They have both dropped deer w reduced recoil 119 grains. Didn’t take a step. It’s a phenomenal round
@@marshmellow3110 awesome. I have the savage axis youth for my wife sending 139's. It'll thump a little, but still not bad at all
Just started - 7mm in my mind. More all purpose plus deer can get big
Another great video Ron- have been considering a 243 for a couple of years now for deer hunting
I have a 7mm-08 Rem model 7, my dad has a .243 Rem 700. Both of us can shoot lights out with them. I like the superformance 139 grain sst.
I like my 243 but I wish mfg would increase twist rates to take advantage of longer heavier high BC bullets. My 243 doesn’t like anything heavier than 90 grains. When I rebarrel I’ll get a higher twist rate and chamber for 6mm creed or 243 AI.
I am not a new shooter, but I got a 7mm-08 a couple years ago and have killed Antelope, Mule deer, and 2 bull elk, from 200-420 yards. None of the animals went more than 20 yards. I absolutely love that cartridge. I have only hunted with the Hornady pro hunter 150gr ELDX, and obviously that combination has worked well for me.
That’s arguably the best balance in 7mm-08 right now for heavy bc bullet and speed. I’ve been using the Berger 140 hunter at 2850, inside 200 the bullet exploded on deer when hitting normal bone.
I am a bit grey on top and recently switched to a 243 Its the most accurate rifle I have owned at 1/2MOA and thats me shooting it :) its suppressed and I had that work done before I fired a shot so never experienced it full noise but its a sheer pleasure to shoot no blast or recoil.
Graduated my son up to a 308 this year. Been shooting a 243 for several years now. 14 years old. I really looked at the 7mm08 as an upgrade but limited ammo availability vs the 308 availability and prices were my biggest sale point. Went with a 308 ruger American compact shooting a 150 grain bullet. Already killed 2 whitetail this year and hardly could tell a difference in the recoil. So don’t sleep on a 308 as an upgrade either.
I first started deer hunting with my dads old .870 12 gauge smoothbore slug barrel and rifled slugs. Alot of people also started with a 20 gauge. At the time, the county we hunted in was shotgun only. Most of the kids I went to school with who hunted with rifle used .243, .270, and 30/30.
Nice video Ron,
I started off hunting mule deer in Wyoming with a Savage 110 chambered for the 7mm Remington mag. But because I have a spine and joint disease that effects most of the joints in my body, the recoil of the 7mm Rem. mag. was just to much. So I sold the 7mm mag. and purchased a Savage Axis XP .243. I loved it! It had no problem taking mule deer in Wyoming and the recoil wasn't too hard on me.
Out of all of my rifles my old 243 has put more venison and pork in the freezer than all my other caliber’s combined. It has also knocked down quite a few coyotes too. I love the fact I can use 1 rifle, 1 bullet and hunt everything in my neck of the woods. Both calibers are great but my 243 is and will always be my favorite. Good job Ron.
I have a 7mm-08 in a BLR. I enjoy shooting it snd bringing it on spot and stalk bear hunts because it’s so light and have a soft manageable recoil. I’ve caught a few moose with it and so have my brothers and nephews. What id really like to see is a video of the 260 Remington, either versus the 708 or 243 or 308 or 6.5cm or all. I’ve seen 1:8” barrel twist rifles out there for the 260 and I’m intrigued. I like to have guns others do not have especially when guys talk down the cartridge I’m interested in. Lol. I enjoy your videos, keep them coming man. Thank you.
Moses, I have a 260, 7mm-08 and 308 comparison video on my channel.
Ive owned all the, 308, 7mm and 243. sold the 7mm. None of the kicked really. All NEF rifles plus my M1A. My 243 is a death ray. Ive shot out to 290 yards, deer dropped on the spot. Love the 243 so much. 95 grain ballistic tips
243/100gr nosler partition is devastating on large boars, as good as a 30-30 at twice the distance
I am 70 years old, and purchased a BLR in 243 about 40 years ago. Took some big mule deer in Utah and the smaller blacktails in California along with a bunch of pigs. I was shooting the Remington 100 gr. Corelokts back when you could shoot them here in California. I sure miss them, that was all I use to shoot. I bought a brand new Weatherby 300 Mark 5 some years back and have been hunting with it. My 243 killed them just as dead, my grandson got his hunting license and will be hunting deer with the 243 BLR. I bought a bunch of Barns 80 grain TTSX lead free bullets, and reloaded a bunch doing 3000/3100 fps. We will see how these do on game, they are pretty accurate.Ya, he thinks that 243 is his now lol. Lmbo !
Hands down , I would pick the 7mm-08 ( of course this is subjective to the young shooters stature and abilities)
That 7mm-08 can handle anything from antelope to elk within ethical shooting distances and skilled hunters . It instills a much greater deal of confidence out in the field in my opinion.
When times are good, you can buy managed recoil 7mm 08 loads. Any shooter should be able to handle those.
243W is the greatest cartridge ever developed in my opinion. It is so versatile. Depending on your twist rate you can get it to do just about anything you need without stepping into a long action or a magnum cartridge. The best thing about it is (1 of 2 parts ->) 6mm caliber bullet selection for high BC long range target shooting and (2 ->) the round isn't underpowered with the heaviest bullets you can throw at it. The 7mm-08 is a dandy round, but the heavier 7mm pills were definitely designed for the larger 7mm cartridges. The 7mm-08 doesn't have the horsepower to push the bigger high BC pills, whereas the 243W is more than capable of sending the 107gr, 110gr, 115gr, stuff fast enough to achieve the BC. Personally, I am a 243W shooter and have been for 23+ years. Nothing like a seeing a whitetail hit with a 100gr Sierra GameKing at about 3,200fps next to another whitetail harvested with a 300WinMag and you CAN'T tell the difference from the wound channel itself. I will continue to love the cartridge and I enjoy the fact that the 243W has been kicking tail since 1954 and still going strong, even with all the Creedbro cartridges trying to take the spotlight.
The nice thing is that a 100gr 243 @3000 has an almost identical trajectory as a 180gr 300 win @3000. Takes the guesswork out of your shot switching between them i have both and am fairly new to 243, been shooting 300 win for 46 years.
Between 243 win 7mm08 rem I'd consider the shooter and game hunted. Are they sensitive to recoil? Are they going to hunt larger game than deer such as moose, elk, bear?
I'd be more curious seeing these 2 compared to 308 since it's the parent. I know when we got my first at 12, kept saying you should get one of these but I held fast to wanting a 308. Glad I did.
For a new to shooting centerfire rifle, the 243 wins hands down. With the much better bullets, we have had over the last 30 years. With decent marksmanship at reasonable big game hunting ranges, I would say yeah game put to Cow Elk size would be more than doable. While I think the 257 Roberts is the best one of that class of cartridges, It's a handloaders deal now and well you are pretty much going to have to build one. NULA so chambered would be sweet indeed. I hunt a lot with an old Sako in 6.5 x 55 so I really have no need for a 243. But if I was going to buy one, I would get myself a Tikka and put a 2.5 - 8 x Leupold on it, zero it spot on for 200 with a Barnes X 90 gr load or similar, and call it good.
Love both of these rounds, the 243 is probably easier to find ammo for. 7-08 is has a bit more whack. Can not go wrong with either, I tend to prefer the short action length rounds.
I love deer hunting with my 243! High shoulder shots and neck shots from 300 yards and in have always anchored my whitetails.
I tuned in because I thought this would be about the .243 Win. and the 7X57 Mauser. Because many of the 7X57 chambered rifles are up to a Century and change years old, and many in questionable condition, Factory ammunition is loaded much lighter than their potential power. Less powerful normally means less recoil, but in this case it is still powerful enough to put Meat in the Locker. To begin with the full power 7X57 Mauser, compared to other traditional deer cartridges, is mild recoiling. The 7-08 Win is loaded to it's potential power, and a harsher recoil.
Great Video! This is exactly the conundrum I have been toying with - I enjoy the "thrill of the hunt" so to speak trying to discern which may be better cartridge (knowing full well there no real 'better' just a different a balance of pros & cons). A great exercise in ballistics and I much of what I have learned has given me a deeper understanding of hunting and rifles, so it can be carried over. Practically speaking the 243 is cheaper and much more readily available, so a safe and wise choice for me to get started and well trained. The 7mm-08 will find it's way into my cabinet, as it would be my preference, but not just yet.
I'm an old guy and a handloader and while acknowledging that both .243 and 7mm-08 are excellent rounds, I am a fan of lower pressure cartridges. While considered "weak" nowadays mild-recoiling rounds like .257 Roberts, 7x57 and .300 Savage are pleasant to shoot and kill as well as they ever did and as well as the newer stuff. Let a young shooter shoot both 7mm-08 and 7x57; don't be surprised if they favor the old guy.
7mm08 all the way. Ron you are generous with your velocities. Factory specs are much less especially when lots of folks shoot 22 inch barrels. My christensen's arms ridgeline has 24 inch barrel and I chrono around 2770 with nosler 140 accubonds, we all don't hand load. Always enjoy your videos
He's shooting at a lot higher elevation than a lot of people. Thinner air lets the bullets go faster. I'm guessing that's why his velocities are a little high.
Great video Ron!
The 243 Winchester used over the decades of hunting has proven you don't need the most powerful cartridge for harvesting game. Know your animal, cartridge capabilities and ethical distances.
Hi Ron! I have a couple of Charles Newton's rifles (buffalo arms company) and I'd love it if you did a video on the "Father of High Velocity!"
Can't say I've ever shot either, but .270WIN was my first and has been kind to my shoulder so far
I've shot both and they both are pretty light recoiling. Now my 7mm-08 likes to bash the bolt knob into my knuckle under recoil because I'm not used to the skinny wrist, but that's not an issue for most people.
My dad, for YEARS, took
caribou with a .243 winchester ,100 grain bullets. I am oldish now, and remember, I have not ever ate a old Caribou or a young caribou. Thank you. My dad was a excellent hunter, one shot, one kill. All the best,
from northern Canada.
.243 is my favorite rifle cartridge of all time. You can load them light and screaming-fast, or plenty heavy for whitetail-sized game (pretty sure a lot of elk are even taken with .243s) or anywhere between. Their ammunition is plentiful, affordable, and varied, they don’t beat you or your rifle/scope up, and they’re very flat, accurate shooters. I don’t have any experience with 7mm-08, I’m sure it’s a fine cartridge, too.
This happens to be the 2 centerfires I own. I'd say if you intend on getting them another rifle later, get the .243. If that's not necessarily the case and you're a handloader, 7mm08 is an obvious choice. Load up a 130 grain Speer boat tail to about 2650fps and they'll have MPBR to about 275 and energy to 400 with .243ish recoil.
I have been considering something like this for my kids who are getting to the age where they will need a deer rifle. My main hunting rifle is a model 70 in 7mm-08 and it's a gun I am reluctant to give up because I love it so much. I have considered a .243, or maybe even a 6.5CM for the kids. Something in that range may be better suited for people their size, but I have also considered a 350 Legend too since we live in Michigan. Ideally I think they would probably fare better with something they can get longer ranges and better energies with for that versatile factor. But then again a straight walled cartridge in our area is very handy too. Man...this is bound to be an expensive decision.
Ron, thank you for another enjoyable and informative video. I grew up with the idea that bigger is better so we were always going with magnums (7mm rem mag, 300 rum, 300 win mag mainly) but we were mostly only using them to hunt mule deer and the occasional elk. To be honest, I have grown to hate shooting magnums and as I have payed more attention to ballistics and that magnums are in most situations not necessary, have settled on smaller calibers for mule deer, they are cheaper to shoot and a lot more enjoyable. Last fall my two teenage boys took their buck mule deer each with one well placed shot no problem. One shot was 200 yds and the other 250 yds on a big bodied older buck, I was amazed at the internal shock and damage the 100gr bullet caused to the vitals. Very efficient and effective caliber for deer and very fun the target shoot the rest of the year.
For anyone wondering what caliber I was referring to in my main comment we were using .243 win with 100gr Hornady interlock bullets
As a 7mm-08 fanatic I'm taking my 243 model 70 for a huge buck I'm trying to harvest, go figure.
Go 7mm-08
🤷🏽♂️
Maybe split the difference and get a 6.5 CM. Lots of ammo available, great deer cartridge, minimum for elk/moose (imo), and light recoiling. I think it's the best cartridge to introduce to new hunters looking to hunt big game. Pigs, black bears, and deer etc.
Perfect compromise between these 2 rounds would be the OLE 257 Roberts, man i love the 257!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!