Hey everybody! To clarify, the digital piano speakers were muted for the test. All three pianos were coming through the DAW / studio monitors at the same volume, and an effort was made to select settings that neutralized any differences in ambience and touch curve behaviors. One of our regular and respected commenters on the channel made the good point that this wasn't specified in the video, so we thought it best to state it here :)
@@zvelekva If you listen to recordings of an actual Steinway D or Yamaha CFX, you will realize they sound far more beautiful and smooth than the sound produced by this VSL + NV5 keyboard combo. The most likely reason is that the NV5 is being used here as a MIDI controller, and it is definitely not doing a very good job in mapping the velocities of those vst pianos. If you listen to other UA-cam players using VSL, you will see they produce a beautiful sound with smooth transitions and the notes don't sound harsh and clunky, as in this video. The most likely reason is: they may be using a professional MIDI controller, or they have some type of MIDI velocity mapping software. This is one of the weak points of vst pianos: the synergy needed between MIDI controller and vst piano engine. It doesn't matter if you are a great pianist, you can't play properly with a mismatched velocity curve. VSL may have 100 dynamic velocity levels, but the question is: is your MIDI controller really hitting the exact velocity per note needed to produce a beautiful sound, the way it was intended by VSL? This is like assembling a computer using different parts that don't work well with each other. Kawai, on the other hand, has adjusted the MIDI velocities and sound engine just for that "MIDI controller" (the keyboard of the piano). Everything has been already debugged at the factory by Kawai expert technicians. My Yamaha digital piano sounds much better using its built-in sample for that same reason. But one thing I can notice right away: the VSL Steinway D or CFX samples in this video sound as if the MIDI controller had the velocity curve cranked up or too narrow. The poor Steinway D has been rendered here not better than the "German D" Steinway on the Korg Krome. There is an obvious problem, despite Stu's best efforts. I have also made best efforts in making my vst pianos sound great, and I have never achieved it. So, maybe there is something else to tweak. But one way or the other, two things are sure: recordings of Steinway D and CFX show they sound way better than this digital representation, being smooth and with color, and also that there are VSL recordings that have managed, somehow, to make justice to those VSL pianos. This video, despite Stu best efforts at the moment, is not delivering that sound. The Kawai sample may be not as detailed from the factory, but it is using "the right shoes" (the keyboard MIDI velocities are properly mapped). It is better to use cheap clothes that fit your body, than expensive clothes that are baggy or too tight. So, at least in my personal experience with digital pianos controlling vst pianos, the answer is: yes, there is a significant difference in dynamic CONTROL... you have no good control of the vst sample with a general purpose MIDI controller. You would need a professional MIDI controller and a dedicated MIDI velocity mapping software if you really want to have dynamic control over your vst piano. Otherwise, you are painting with a wide brush, and the painting will not be very good.
@@zvelekva I just wanted to state once again the basic problem here: Both the Steinway D and Yamaha CFX are heavily misrepresented in this video. If you listen to recordings here on UA-cam of the real acoustic instruments, they don't sound like in this video at all. In addition, other videos on UA-cam of the VSL Steinway or CFX sound beautiful, not like in this comparison. Even Stu's own previous videos playing those vst pianos using his Roland RD2000 as a MIDI controller sound way better than in this video. There is no argument whatsoever that this video is a misrepresentation of the sound of VSL pianos. For that reason, although the video is not completely about which piano sounds better, it is mentioned twice, and the way the VSL samples were presented would invalidate the comparison. Going back to the MIDI velocity issue: Is the NV5 at fault? Is the NV5 upright action not capable of producing the proper MIDI output? Something else? The NV5 is not a dedicated professional MIDI controller. It is a digital piano with an upright piano action. How accurate is it as a MIDI controller for vst pianos? We don't know, and Kawai does not say it should be used as a MIDI controller either. How many samples does the NV5 have? Putting any number is just guessing. Digital pianos typically have a type of memory called "flash", different from the .wav files stored in a computer hard drive (which is what is used in vst pianos). Flash memory is expensive to implement, which is why digital pianos don't have very large samples. Even the NV10S that you are about to receive DOES NOT have a true Kawai SK-EX sample: Kawai chops the note after the initial attack to save memory. The Harmonic Imaging XL (Extra Large) is a bit better than the HI because it extends the attack portion of the note, but still chops it, then the rest (decay) is just FAKE sound digitally made up. The reverb is fake, the sympathetic resonance is fake, and all the extra sounds are fake, or "modeled". But the NV5 is a product that has been created to work flawlessly: everything has been maximized to work as good as possible at the factory, despite the shortcomings of the sample. Most vst pianos come with some general MIDI velocity curves that will give you a bit of control over the samples, but you will need to be able to tweak each note individually. You will need some type of application that allows you to adjust the MIDI velocity of each note. This will need to be done for each vst piano individually. When you open a vst piano inside a DAW, you have access to MIDI modifiers. You can control the sample smoothness by adding or subtracting points to the keyboard input. Ideally, you should be able to modify each MIDI impulse the keyboard sends to each individual note and adjust it as needed. The NV5 has a specific velocity touch that Stu is using in this video. That specific velocity touch can typically be changed in most digital pianos. For example, I can change my Touch Settings from 0 to 127, and make my CFX piano sample sound classical smooth or T-shirt-Hard-Rock harsh... just with adding or subtracting points. I can also do the same with my vst pianos, both via my digital piano or the MIDI modifiers in my DAW. Stu says he made a best effort in setting these vst pianos to sound best... well, his best efforts are not working in this video. Even his Roland RD2000 made much more justice to the same samples... could it be an NV5 issue using its default settings? For that reason, this video cannot be used to make statements about the sounds of these specific models. They are misrepresented, in favor of the Kawai, because the Kawai sample is not suffering from MIDI velocity mismatches, since it is adjusted with precision at the factory by Kawai technicians to sound its best. By the way, you could also mess up the Kawai sample if you wanted. If you change the MIDI velocity settings in your NV10S and raise the points high enough, your NV10S will sound awfully harsh too.
@@zvelekva Hello again. I just wanted to add a few comments to the topic of dynamic control of a vst piano in general and your question regarding the difference in dynamic control between the SK-EX sample and the VSL sample. This should apply to any MIDI controller, including the NV10S used as such. I will take my own digital piano as as example. I just opened in Cubase a MIDI track and watched the MIDI Fader tab, which is giving me a reading of the MIDI values generated by my piano: When I play soft passages, the velocities are located in the 25-60 range mainly. If I start playing with octaves, the numbers raise to 75. Playing those same octaves but rather powerful raises the number to 100. Very hard raises to keyboard to 110. I have to basically hit the keyboard insanely hard to hit 127. But the question is: did I really hit every number in that range? And even if I did, do I have that type of control in my fingers to generate 127 levels of pressure? How many velocity levels can you realistically hit in a piano? Imagine you were tapping on a table with your finger: how many different levels of tapping force can you realistically measure? Even further: how many levels of tapping force can you precisely control with your fingers? I think the number is quite modest. Can you realistically produce 127 levels of force with your fingers on a piano key? I think 10 levels of force is, realistically, quite high. Unless you are a robot. Furthermore, what is the difference in piano sound between, let's say, force level 98 and force level 99? Can you even notice the difference on a piano if you had a robot to accurately produce 127 levels of force? I think you could very well have a modest Kawai SK-EX sample with 6 velocities and still do great. Going back to my example with my digital piano: I noticed that the MIDI velocities are unstable. I can't produce 127 levels of velocity with my fingers using my piano. I can make the piano trigger values in several zones of the range of [0,127], but that doesn't mean that I can accurately produce, let's say, velocity value #64 if you ask me, or velocity value #73. A robot can do that I guess, but not a person. More realistically, I can produce force values that will consistently fall in a few intervals, for example: [0,25], [26,60], [61,75], [76,100]... basically 4 dynamic levels... which is why a digital piano with 4 layers is more than adequate for most situations. And once again, even if you were able to produce with absolute accuracy (you won't) every single force value between 0-127, the sample #74 and #75 (to give an example) as produced by a robot, will not be have a discernible difference. Think of a real piano: can you extract from a single key 127 different sounds in both level and tonality? To finish this comment: I can almost guarantee that, once you play with a vst piano for a while, you will realize that it is not a great idea. Unless you want to spend the time and effort designing the perfect velocity curve that the Kawai technicians created for that Kawai sample, you will likely abandon your vst piano and stick to your Kawai sample. I think vst pianos are better left for recording and playing back MIDI tracks that you could possibly adjust in a DAW... but for live performing in a digital piano, use its built-in sample.
@@Instrumental-Covers many years ago I had a cheap Yamaha DP which I used for travelling. It lacked proper weighted keys, and the tones were very poor. (But nothing was lighter in those days.) I also had a Yamaha expander sound box. It might have been the EMT1. I could connect them together with a MIDI legacy cable, and thus use the nicer piano tones on the box, but I noticed that the touch sensitivity went a bit strange. I could not find a very pleasing touch sensitivity on the DP for controlling the tones on the box. I suspect that you've been discussing a similar problem, only on a grander scale.
@@zvelekva I have played with both Pianoteq 4 and Pianoteq 7. To me, they sound fake, particularly in the upper harmonics of each note. I think the whole Pianoteq reputation of being more "organic" started about 10 years ago when multi-sample engines were not using a lot of modeling and transitions were more obvious. I wouldn't waste my time with Pianoteq, especially if you value an authentic tone. Kawai digital pianos don't have exactly a full Kawai sample, but at least it is based on a real piano. Pianoteq is complete simulation. Nowadays, the best option is to use a digital piano like the NV10S. Let Kawai do the velocity curve hard work for you, and don't bother with VSL for actual live playing. If you want to record an album and know how to tweak MIDI and use a DAW, then buy VSL. That would be my suggestion. Enjoy your new Kawai!
The warm, beautiful, and oh so musical sound of a well voiced Kawai. I recognized it instantly. I may not own an SK-EX but I can assure you, after carefully voicing and and regulating my Kawai K300, not a day goes by that she doesn't touch my soul. I bought her used in January 2020. A childhood dream fulfilled and the best purchase I've ever made.
@@glennallen4634 Are all Kawai pianos warm? One of the very few Kawai piano libraries out there is the "Kawai-EX Pro" by Acoustic Samples. They describe the piano this way, "The Kawai-EX Pro sample Library is a fabulous, powerful and bright 9-foot (276cm) KAWAI EX concert grand piano that used to be in the Kennedy Center in Washington DC." Notice they used the adjective "bright". Is "bright" a synonym of "bad" and "warm" a synonym of "good"? I would also like to hear your description of what it means to be "warm". By the way, the samples of the VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX are being misrepresented in this video, most likely due to the MIDI velocity curve used. If you are familiar with vst pianos, you know you can render anyone of them terribly harsh and lacking expression by simply not dialing in the proper velocity curve. You can check that by listening to the same pianos in other videos... including Stu's own previous videos, where he didn't feature his favorite Kawai for comparison.
@Patrick Bai Hello Patrick, it was a rhetorical question to make the point that not all Kawai pianos are "warm". The stereotype is that Kawai is "warm" and Yamaha is "bright", Kawai is for classical and Yamaha is for pop. This video helps to consolidate that sentiment by rendering the Steinway and Yamaha vst pianos in a particular way (software pianos are dependent on the MIDI controller and velocity curve used). I have pointed out before that Merriam Music, being a Kawai dealer and not a Yamaha or Steinway dealer, sees things in one particular way. In real life, all these pianos are great, and Kawai is largely exaggerated over the other 2 brands in this channel.
Very fun experiment. 😃But, here are some issues to be aware of with this particular experiment. I have done similar experiments and I can share a few things to keep in mind: 1) This is not really an apples-to-apples comparison, because the Kawai sound is coming from a digital piano, and I will elaborate below why this matters. It would have been an apples-to-apples if Vienna Symphonic Library had a VSL SK-EX. But they don't. In fact, almost nobody records Kawai pianos. It is very difficult to find good quality vst Kawai pianos. Most vst piano companies record Steinway, Yamaha, Fazioli. Almost no one records Kawai pianos. 2) I have done similar experiments with the CFX built-in on my digital piano, and compared to the Garritan CFX, Ivory Pianos II (Bösendorfer, Steinway, Yamaha C7), and some of the Native Instruments grand pianos. The difference is extremely obvious, and this is why: You can tell right away when you are playing the built-in CFX, for one simple reason: the speaker system has been designed exclusively for that sample. Digital piano samples are meant to be played via the speaker system, especially in premium pianos like the Novus NV5, or a Yamaha AvantGrand. What you pay in these pianos is basically a better action and a speaker system designed for that sample. If you play another sample, the speaker system will tell you that right away. The acoustics are different, the sound typically is more distant, more reverberant, not as crisp. Apparently, the test was done using the built-in speaker system of the Novus NV5 for Stu to use as the reference to judge the pianos. In that case, the Kawai sample will be very clear to choose for the player. In the same manner that, in my digital piano, nothing sounds as good through the built-in speaker system than the built-in CFX sample. Because Yamaha tuned that speaker system for it. In fact, Yamaha uses both an anechoic chamber AND a 3D semi-anechoic chamber to tune in the speakers in their Clavinova series, with microphone feedback from a multitude of microphones to detect sound pressure in a hemispheric grid, to make the speakers particularly calibrated for the built-in sample. To make the test a bit more accurate, the proper speakers should have been not the built-in speakers, but a pair of studio monitors. That is of course the NV5 speakers were used. If Stu was listening to his studio monitors from a distance, that would be different. 3) The keyboard used is not a general purpose MIDI controller. The piano sample on the NV5 is carefully adjusted by Kawai at the factory, to sound its best for this specific action. People who use vst pianos know this is a big deal: if your MIDI controller is not optimally adjusted for that piano sample, you will not make justice to the sample. That is why some vst pianos, like Pianoteq, will have dedicated Velocity Curves for different brands and models. 4) Annie's comment at 19:27 that she felt that "the Kawai had more emotion"... If the NV5 speakers were used for the test: that exactly is what should happen, since the Kawai speaker system is designed just for that sample. I experience the same with my digital piano: the CFX built-in sounds way better through its dedicated speaker system than the vst pianos. If you play a vst piano through a speaker system that is NOT designed for it, then those vst pianos will not sound as good. The only way to make an unbiased statement here would be to use a pair of studio monitors without looking at which sample you are selecting. If studio monitors were used in the test, but you already like Kawai and you look at your selection, then the selection process contains some elements that may introduce bias. 5) These are digital recordings with unspecified settings in the modeling engines: we don't know if each piano was optimally adjusted for the playing through those Kawai piano-purposely-designed speakers. We don't know if the recordings played through another speaker system, like a high quality pair of studio monitors, have the samples optimally designed. Modeling engines offer so many parameters that can be tweaked. 6) I used a pair of flat studio headphones and a Tascam audio interface. To me, during the duo parts (singing), the Yamaha actually sounded best, and the Kawai sounded the most flat, meaning less color in the sample. In addition, I could hear the sample being shorter, with less decay. Kawai uses the Harmonic Imaging XL in their SK-EX Rendering engine, which they clearly state in their website is not a full sample of the note, but the attack portion of the note. That what "XL" means: extra large... meaning larger than the regular Harmonic Imaging, but not a full decay recording. Premium vst pianos like VSL record the entire note, and you can tell. That is why they are huge libraries. The Kawai had also a narrower stereo field. This is probably because that sample is not meant to be used for recordings, but built specifically for a piano replacement. The VSL pianos are probably meant for studio recordings. 7) The word "warm" can be easily misused. It is a vague word. It can mean at least two different things: - A "preferential" adjective: people may use the word as a synonym for "sweet", "musical" sound.. which is another way of saying: I like this sound, so I am going to call it "warm". This is then an opinion, not a fact. - An "analytical" adjective: the word "warm" can be used to mean "rolled off treble", "less definition", "less separation", "more mid-bass pronounced", "more blended". In that sense, it is not an opinion, but a fact that can be analyzed in a frequency spectrum analyzer, or appreciated by ear, and does not mean a "better" sound, just a description of it. To evaluate a piano as "warm" in the first sense, it is an opinion. Somebody might just have a different pick or taste. The second use is more objective, and refers to a characteristic of the sound, and does not imply preference. When the word "warm" is used, it should be used in the 2nd sense to be objective. Otherwise, you are just giving an opinion. Blended sounds with less definition are liked by many people, but this is not a measurement of quality, but an aspect of the sound. 8) A more accurate experiment would be: a) Test pianos recorded by the same company b) Use a MIDI controller that has not been adjusted for a particular sample (the MIDI controller used here is adjusted for the Kawai sample). Use the best possible settings to adjust the velocity curve for EACH piano separately. Do not the same MIDI controller setting for the different pianos. Each piano needs its own velocity curve to produce the best sound. c) Tweak each piano to sound optimally. This will be already subjective, but the effort can be made. Maybe invite a Yamaha or Steinway musician, to balance the preferences, and let them adjust their favorite sample to sound its best. 9) For the audience: playing samples that people cannot see and are identified by numbers (Piano #1, Piano #2, etc.) will be a more objective way to evaluate a piano sound. Most people have their own preferences a priori. For example, for some people, when they see the name "Kawai", they immediately will like what they hear, even before anything is played. If they see the name "Yamaha", they will immediately hear "cold, simple sound" etc., and whatever their pre-conceptions are will influence their listening experience.
Hey Instrumental Covers - I never even thought to clarify this but makes sense to: the Novus 5 speakers were 100% inactive for this, and the sound from the piano was sending from the line-out's into our interface and out of the studio monitors, so it was the same level and sonic source when I was hearing all three. None of the piano's three sounds were coming through the Novus - it was used exclusively as a controller (and signal source for the SKEX) in this case. I think I'll add that to description so people are aware. - Cheers!, stu
@@MerriamPianos Hi Stu, that was good to know. As I mentioned, it was not clear the method of playing back the sample, so I imagined both possibilities. I think the Kawai sample should be a lot easier to tell than the other two, because it is a sample done with a different purpose and a different sonic character by a different company. For example, I can easily tell the difference between the CFX sample of my DGX 670 and the CFX by Garritan. It is very obvious through headphones or speakers. And it is supposed to be the same CFX piano. Built-in piano samples in digital pianos are fairly different than vst pianos. There are several elements involved in them that make them different. For example, Kawai samples their pianos in an anechoic chamber. It is a dry sound with a note that is not full (no Kawai digital piano has fully recorded notes, which Kawai clearly state in their website when they explain what HI-XL is), then artificial modeling artifacts are added, most likely some looping must occur or some type of extension to the note that is not the real note, a sort of digital simulation. The reverb is fake as well. But vst pianos seem to be typically recorded not in anechoic chambers, so they do have a different character, reverb, decay, and level of detail (particularly in a recording by VSL). Since you are using Genelec studio monitors, the difference should become even more obvious. Great fun experiment! 😀
I tried to recognize them blind like you and mixed Steinway and Yamaha sometimes... but always recognized the Kawai immediately: It has a really warm sound full of colors. They are all wonderful: The Steinway is the choice if you need something for all kind of music and especially for the concert with a large orchestra. The Yamaha has the most neutral sound, works good in a band and would be my choice for pop music. The Kawai is the choice for solo playing or for accompanying such a wonderful voice like Annie's. I love the intimacy of the Kawai. Only got the money for an Digital Piano though... but that's a Kawai...
You are assuming you listened to the true sound of the software pianos as intended by VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX. You didn't. Both instruments are suffering in this recording of a technical problem related to the so-called "MIDI velocity curve", which has rendered them harsh sounding. A comparison of the piano tones is invalid. If you listen to other recordings of this same virtual instrument, you will hear the difference. I don't know if you are familiar with virtual instruments, but you can instantly render a software instrument harsh by adding about 20 points on the velocity curve. Comparing a well regulated Kawai sample built-in on the digital piano NV5 with two badly misrepresented Steinway D and Yamaha CFX samples is not a fair test. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison. If you like an actual acoustic Kawai piano over other pianos, that is fine. But what is not OK is to present the sounds as heard on this video as the true sound of the Vienna Symphonic Library VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX software pianos.
@@benjaminsmith2287 ...difficult to describe... It is "thicker" in the tone, especially in the mids... the sound has more "colors" and they match in a harmonic way. In the end, this behaviour is less universal, than (for example) a Steinway is. And the Kawai is way more dificult to mix with other instrument in a studio environment because the sound "covers" and is covered by other instruments too much. But it is not as mellow in quiet passages as the Boesendorfer. In the end, it is a matter of what you like. Never buy a Piano without playing and hearing it, no matter whether Grand, Upright or Digital.
@@Instrumental-Covers You are completely right. I learned to play piano on a Yamaha Baby Grand in the 1970ties, and i loved the instrument. At home, I had an old, always mistuned upright (I do not remember the brand) which was really bad, but it was my friend in difficult times, so I loved it, too. I played a few times on a Steinway B-Model from 1963, and loved it. I had one of the first Yamaha Clavinova in the 80ies, and was happy to have an instrument at all. Form all of the sampling instruments, I choose the Abbey Yamaha CFX from Garritan, and this is great. I played only twice on a Kawai grand, not a Shigaru, but I listen oft to concerts, live or on a really sophisticated HiFi system, and BTW: If you have different Steinways , the differences between the instruments can be extreme.
@@rustydusty3863 I think of Kawai as having a full bodied tone. I think the official definition of a warm tone is a tone that has a fair amount of bass in the tenor and alto registers. A dark tone has even more bass in it. And I guess a bright tone has less bass. But the thing is, some pianos have almost conflicting qualities to their tones, bright and darkness in their tones. Or bright tones with warmth. Thanks for your well detailed answer.
Your wife's vocal was stunningly good and I'm with her for that kind of performance with Kawai. I appreciate the Yamaha as the most versatile and "neutral" instrument. I never could understand, why people like the Steinway so much, although I'm from Germany. ;-) To be honest, I don't think I would distinguish between the models in a live session as a listener, so I think everyone artist should use the instrument he feels best about. And all of the instruments today are on a level of tonal excellence and sheer perfect build quality.
I agree with you. Steinways are best enjoyed by themselves or with an orchestra. Yamahas are good for anything, especially with a singer. Kawais are like Yamahas but with more wood and warmth with a sound and experience that benefits the piano player more than the other musicians, say when playing in a band.
It's not fair. I mean, Stu has his ears sooo well trained. He spends a lot of time recording videos about comparisons, plus he has a variety of instruments in the show room of his own shop where I am shure he spends a lot of time playing them. Of course he would get it right. Stu is the most known piano specialist on u tube to me. Legend!
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I can't disagree with you on that front! Stu has golden ears to put things lightly. With that said, his ability to blindly discern between piano voices is quite impressive! :)
Hey, I think I've seen nearly all of your videos, really! Most of them very intersting and useful - and I never wrote anything. But today I found this one and the beauty of what you both did has blown me away! So I say thank you with all of my heart.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you so much for supporting our videos and channel! We sincerely appreciate it. I will certainly pass on the kind words to Stu as well. I know he appreciates the support immensely as well! :)
Maybe the best video you’ve ever done Stu! Stu is hitting way above his weight with Annie! Annie is perfectly made up, beautifully dressed and Stu is Sunday morning, unshaven and I’m a t-shirt! 😂 What a talented and nice couple though. 👍
Excellent video, Stu. Really enjoyed. I personally liked the way the CFX complemented Annie’s voice. You are right about how the tonality of the CFX doesn’t compete with the vocals. Keep the videos coming! Norm
She preferred the Kawai but would she if she listened back? The Yamaha didn't compete at all with her so her voice was highlighted he most with the Yamaha complementing her. Yet I think it is still an excellent solo instrument in that it almost enunciates as in speaks. It's more about attack intensity than the other two, even in the virtual form. The Kawai may have the softest hammers but is good at changing timbres in different dynamic ranges.
“I had more emotion when I was listening to the it (Kawai)” “I felt more...” 19:26 ... it was very warm, more intimate” (Kawai) 25:36 “I really enjoyed the tone of the Kawai, it really complimented the voice “
I know why you hated Steinway: because the true sound of the VSL Steinway D is not that harsh. The sound was heavily misrepresented in this video due to a technical issue with the MIDI velocity curve of that vst piano. If you listen to other videos that use the same software piano, you will see the difference. The Steinway D by VSL actually has a beautiful sound, not what you heard here.
I actually love that buzz of the Yamaha bass notes. I auditioned a C6X in Ottawa and I think I am in love. Also tried the Steinway Model D in another gallery and it had a beautiful action, but I'm not sure the tone is superior.
It's amazing duos. I'm very impressed with this video. When you played as an accompanist, the Yamaha provides very good sound. The Steinway too which I think it's more color in some parts. But the Kawai provides different ambience, which is I think it can blanded very well with the singer. I think it would depend on personal choice. Thank you.
Definitely the CFX (sample). The first Yamaha concert grand I really fell in love with. The clarity, without being cool, like the other Yamahas. The responsiveness is unequalled, the sound is instantly there (short attack), very quickly evolving in a full and transparent warm sound, but not fuzzy and can decay evenly fast, without problem. That amount of control is both the very heaven for a pianist, and for the listener. Your beautiful rich and very nuanced voice is in my opinion best suited with the Yamaha. OK, both other pianos aren't bad either, but not as nuanced and complete as the CFX. Incredible that after 300 years, it is still possible to develop and improve this stunning instrument, the love of my life. Thnx for this fine video.
You're very welcome! Thank you for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! We sincerely appreciate it. There are no doubts that all three of these instruments are incredible. They simply offer a different musical flavour that will resonate with different players based on their personal preferences in terms of tone. Thanks again and all the best! :)
@@MerriamPianos Keep on doing the good stuff! BTW: I have a Nord Stage 4 and I'm really happy with it. But there is one drawback: Nord hasn't a CFX in their piano library. I miss that very much! Is it possible to use other samples with the Nord and if yes, is that different than playing a dedicated Nord sample? I played acoustical (analog) piano's almost all my life, but now I also like the versatility of digital machines. So my knowledge is rather limited on the matter. So please help me out, if you can. Thanks in advance!
Love the voice of Annie... what a beautiful couple! If I can afford any piano I want, I would sélect the Shigeru (and maybe the Fazioli too). Love the warmth of the Shigeru. But really, as a solo instrument on a concert stage, I think the Steinway is in a class of its own. I used to hate the sound of a Yamaha, but the CFX changed my mind. The CFX is now one of the best in the world.
Annie and Stu are both incredibly talented! They're a musical power couple! :) The Shigeru Kawai pianos are exceptional. The warmth, colour, power, and expressivity they possess is unparalleled to any other piano in its price category. These are instruments that definitely punch well above their weight class and offer excellent cost-to-value ratios for customers.
My wife and I just watched this together and we were both thinking the same thing with the final test, so it was fun when Annie said the same thing: Kawai best, Yamaha second best (but close), Steinway third.
Awesome video Stu and Annie. Fascinating the way you ‘tuned your ear in” on the blind test (and then maybe tired at the 10th question). But Annie’s singing over your comping really takes the cake here. My guess before the three singing experiments was that Annie would prefer singing over the Yamaha or the Kawai and put the Steinway last, because its tonal quality and colour would be competing with her vocals. In the end, the Kawai filled that spot, with its warmth, and the Yamaha by comparison leaving the singer cold (too clinical or plan vanilla or black and white / pen and pencil sketch?…and not giving the singer enough to work with). The thing that struck me, right from the first note with the Steinway, was wow: Annie is singing the same song (same verse too) >completely< differently. I had the sense that Annie had to work a lot harder (and think more?) with the Steinway. As a listener, I liked the performance with the Steinway the best. (Opposite of my expectation). Annie seemed most relaxed and comfortable with the Kawai, so I can get why she rated it first. Would be interesting if her rating as a listener would be different…even (or especially!) a year later. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for tuning in and for these wonderful insights! It is certainly very interesting to see a performer's reaction to an instrument that is accompanying them (even when it comes to the most subtle/nuanced changes in body language or performance approach). I will be sure to pass on your kind words to Stu and Annie! :)
Most interesting ❣️ The first one I had the funny feeling of “oh please shut off the piano, it’s irritating my listening of her beautiful voice”. The second one compared to the first it appeared to me “just professional” and the third was a “perfect fit” totally in harmony with Anni’s performance. Loved it ❣️
I think she's probably the best judge as she can feel how it's working with her voice. When it comes to Saxophone tone a lot of it is generated in the player's nasal cavity. If Kwanzala Harris was a piano, they would be hard to sell.
Wow! Annie’s voice is so beautiful. And Stu… you are a master pianist. Thank you for sharing your talents! Anyway, I agree with Annie regarding Kawai having more warm and emotion.
@@MerriamPianos no worries. Btw, I agree with her opinion on steinway, for some reason it just doesnt sound as good, especially because it is right after CFX. Kawai sounds better than steinway, but the impression isnt as strong as when she sings with CFX. That's why her voice sounds best with CFX, it's just beautiful!
To me this video just goes to show...pick a piano that works for you, for what ever the reasons are, and learn to play it well. Beautiful piano music is going to sound great on any platform if played well. Good job! And +1 for Kawai =-)
great review and fantastic music which is always a highlight of stu's reviews, but added bonus this time. any kids who grow up in that household are going to have seriously good ears
10:23 Steinway played 11:19 Kawai guessed (but corrected to Steinway at next sample) --- 11:27 Kawai played 12:27 Kawai guessed --- 12:56 Steinway played 13:28 Yamaha guessed *(1st wrong)* --- 13:33 Steinway played 14:17 Steinway guessed --- 14:24 Yamaha played 14:50 Yamaha guessed --- 14:56 Kawai played 15:33 Kawai guessed --- 15:38 Steinway played 16:27 Steinway guessed --- 16:32 Kawai played 16:40 Kawai guessed --- 17:31 Kawai played 17:43 Kawai guessed --- 17:49 Yamaha played 18:40 Steinway guessed *(2nd wrong)* So it is 8 out of 10. Still remarkable result. Well done, Stu
13:59 - Brahms Intermezzo Opus 118, No. 2 - a piece worth the attention of classical music enthusiasts & worth Stu recording on a demo someday. Thank you both.
Goodlord, that was so nice with ms Bonsignore. With an interruptio sine qua non three times when beautiful music started, by vulgar advertisements. But I'm not complaining. Beautiful voice. Beautiful piano playing. I felt the Steinway was the most recognizable especially in the midrange. It has some "ring" but in piano solo that can make it more interesting where many others sound thin and tinny. Yes, that competes a bit with the human voice that is precisely in that range. Albeit that may have been a matter of recording/mixing too. I was wondering the whole time, from a highest end audiophile perspective - while listening through lossy compressed MP4 and desktop loudspeakers - how you played the virtual instruments back in your session. DA converter, amplification, headphone amplifier or anything that might influence what you hear and how you hear it.
Hey @JP dJ! So the VST's were hosted within Logic in a 24bit / 48kHz session, passing through a Clarrett Interface, and presented through a pair of Genelec monitors (8020a). The Kawai was also coming into the same session via analog 1/4" cables from the line-out, with the local speakers off. So I was hearing all three from the same perspective, though there was an extra D/A to A/D conversion occurring with the Kawai with the chain we had setup. And thanks for the comments, great to hear it was enjoyed :) -stu
I found myself looking for "tells". As you were playing the Kawai and playing chromatically down through the bass, there was a particular place where there was an obvious break, not sure if it's where the piano goes from double wound to single wound strings, but it stood out. Another piano, I'd have to go looking to see which the Steinway or the Yamaha, had one noted in the upper mid treble that sounded out of tune when played a certain way. I can see how those little things could stand out really quickly to someone with a critical ear and/or drive a person nuts over time when they can't be fixed and they can't stop hearing them.
Although I’m not a professional, I can tell the differences amongst the 3 pianos and I guessed all correct. (I’ve been listening to music for more than 40 years). Similar to Annie, I prefer Kawai the most, as it blended with her voice the best, and it’s the most touching of all 3 renditions and communicates her feeling wholeheartedly. And then followed by Yamaha, and Steinway in that order.
Imagine, The Kawai did sound the best. I do not think they would be like that if they were acoustics. On my end the audio was not received well enough (based on my setup?) to hear a massive difference. Think the dynamic range over YT was limiting factor also.
Hey Stu, may I suggest that at the end of your videos have Annie perform a song. Oh, and if I haven't told you before, I find your videos very informative.
Impressive! I can make the difference between a Steinway and a Fender Rhodes and a Harpsichord pretty accurately and that's pretty much it. Joke asides, I can make the difference between a well built piano and a poor quality one but I can't tell between high level one.
It is going to be very interesting and I am not sure what to expect. These questions have to be asked (and perhaps answered, even though the answers may be very subjective and depend on personal preferences) because otherwise we are just chasing some illusions.
I was very glad that Stu did so well. I learned that Steinway sound is not necessarily the one I liked the most. Very interesting for me and it reinforces my recent thoughts that I should just get a hybrid digital piano and forget about aspiring to ever own an acoustic one.
Stu and Annie, great comparison video! I was wondering if you ran the NV5 to the DAW/audio interface via 1/4" TRS as an external instrument? I was assuming you we listening to the VST s through the Kawai somehow but it sounds like the studio monitors were behind you during the listening test.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and writing in with your question. I am not exactly sure how Stu ran the VST audio in real-time for this video, but my guess would be that he used the studio monitors. Thanks again and all the best!
I think Stu was just getting tired by the time the last one came up. A brilliant "blindfold" test with positive results. Now can we guess where Annie is from? Maybe born in Australia, but been in Canada or the US for a long time? A great singing voice anyway. Thanks for this very enjoyable team effort.
Great Video! I was trying to guess too, specially when the playing is jazzy it was difficult for me but with long played notes i could here characteristics…. Beautiful voice! Can i ask what vst library you were using? ist that from vienna orchestra? I personally like synthogy grand piano steinway. Looking forward for more videos, you two are so gifted. Rene
I think Annie would win masked singer. And 27:20 --- it's understandable, as each sort of piano has its own tonal characteristics. A particular kind of piano may not suit particular sorts of pop music, and might not best match the voice of a particular singer. So having options to handle particular cases is what it will be about. Also - when samples are being recorded - the configuration and quality of the microphones, and the room or hall etc ----- are part of the picture too. And also adding - which everybody can see already - Stu's piano playing solid, reliable. Amazing.
Most players play a certain piano because they are sponsored in some way by the manufacturer. There's a young gal here in Denver who is a "Steinway Artist." Gerald Clayton who I worship is a "Yamaha Artist." As such the venue will have to rent the brand of piano the artist represents. Over many years, Steinway went out of its way to make certain the best pianists were seen playing their pianos. My pick for an acoustic grand is Mason & Hamlin, but I don't believe they have ever been discussed on this channel.
@@JoeLinux2000 True. Good points you made. Competition and big business drives people to put in their best effort to maintain good quality design and components. Ideally - it is nice to just be (even at first or for a while) to not know the brand of instrument being played --- and only focus on the sound of it - and to use it for the particular application. Although - for some cases - if options are limited, we can only make do with what we have access to. If the Mason and Hamlin hasn't yet been sampled professionally - then that would certainly be nice to add to the sound collection.
Stu, you played all of these on a Kawai piano, could you please post what model it is. Also were we hearing this through speakers, the Kawai soundboard via transducers or direct line? Thank you so much for your channel.
Hello! Best regards👋🏼 I really liked this type of hearing test that is excellent for differentiating and identifying the differences between these 3 magnificent pianos, both for their tonal frequencies, warmth, resonance, sleaze, and expression among many characteristics🎹👍🏻 obviously Stu he is an excellent and talented pianist and manages to get the best out of these variants of these magnificent pianos💪💪💪 coincidentallyI am a lover of the 3💙🎹🎹🎹 however in this test I agree with the beautiful lady when she pointed to the kawai and also about what she said In relation to the last mistake between Yamaha and Steinway😏, however, I think in my humble opinion, (as a keyboard player) (not a pianist) that the sound of the Yamaha is unmistakable regardless of the variants, especially in the bass and mids. excellent video guys! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😊😎
First of all this comparison is not a comparison of the real pianos, but a comparison of recordings of three different pianos. Almost everyone argues that the sound of a live acoustic instrument is better than the sound of a sample which is very much affected by the speakers. In this case, I conjecture all three recorded instruments will be projected from the same speakers. Finally pianos are very much affected by what is known as "the scale," which is the diameter of wire on each individual note. After that the voicing of the hammers is extremely important. In the end the amount of "inharmonicity" is critical. This is the amount of inharmonic partials generated by the scaling. The question should be, "Can I tell the difference between the VSL virtual pianos?" I'm a Pianoteq player and have around a half dozen of their pianos. There are many variations within each. I'm going to guess: 1. Kawai 2. Steinway 3.Yamaha 4. and onward, too many to keep choosing Bottom line, all top of the line pianos sound very good.
Indeed they do - it was super fun to guess and listen with even more detail to their differences, without a visual cue to hear which one I was playing. Fun stuff and thanks as always for the comments Internet Privacy Advocate!!
It is very easy to tell apart the built-in sample from any other sample when you use your built-in speakers. You have the DGX 670 and you play Pianoteq through its speakers via the USB audio interface. Yamaha tunes their speakers for the piano samples. I assume Kawai does the same. Anything else that you play through it will sound worse. Not because the sample is worse, but because the speaker system has been calibrated for the built-in sample. As you know, my hobby is to make speakers for digital pianos, and one thing I can tell you is this: I have to tweak the speaker system for different piano samples. You can't use the same speaker system with the same calibration for a random piano sample. So, when I play, for example, the Garritan CFX through my DGX 670 speakers, guess what? It doesn't sound too good. Why? Because the DGX 670 speakers are tuned for the CFX that is built-in, not the Garritan CFX.
@@Instrumental-Covers One weakness to the approach I'm using now is that both samples come thought the same speakers. When I use separate speakers it does give me much control over the individual voices. There's another aspect to it as well, which is amps. In the olden days I used to like the sound of the Eico ST-70 if you are old enough to know about that tube amp. The first transistor amps were not as good and even other tube amps weren't as good as the ST-70 was a kit which you had to solder together yourself which was very tedious. Transistor technology has come a long way since then.
@@JoeLinux2000 Yes, amplifiers are important. I often hear that tube amplifiers create 2nd harmonic distortions, which adds color to the sound, whereas transistor amplifiers add 3rd or 5th harmonic distortion to the sound, which results in inharmonicity, rendering the sound cold. Some amplifiers use a tube for the pre-amp stage, then transistors for the main amplifier to reduce that issue.
In the video on UA-cam where the German guy is comparing the Steinway, CFX and Bosendorfer playing those wonderful Liszt and Ravel excerpts, the CFX not only sounds completely distinct but imo much better than the Steinway.
It would have been easier to hear from the real acoustic g. pianos. But there should have been also a Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner, too, to make it more difficult. I guess these three would be nearer to the Steinway/Hamburg.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I would have to double check with Stu as to which VST was used for the CFX sample demonstrated in this video. I am not entirely sure, but I imagine it would either be the Garritan or VSL.
Steinway sample is clear superclean and loud, even in the top. Yamaha/Kawai sounds "better". Have they done something with the sample tuning of the Steinway and made it superclean? It's not that warm acoustic sounding Steinway sound even if it's a Steinway.
The Yamaha certainly blended better with the voice to my ears. Kawaii was next and Steinway last. Clearly Steinway was designed as a solo instrument without considering possibly being used as an accompanying instrument for vocals. Both Yamaha and Kawaii are younger (I think) than Steinway, and were probably designed with more varied musical uses in mind.
Richard Clayderman, a French pianist who holds the Guinness Book of World Records as being "the most successful pianist in the world", always used Yamaha pianos in his albums. He has recently switched to Steinway & Sons in his recordings, and it sounds wonderful. By the way, most of his recordings use an orchestra.
@@Instrumental-Covers Clayderman is not my favourite pianist (British understatement) but he certainly knows how to please large numbers of people. (So congratulations M. Richard Clayderman.) I had no idea that he is French. He is/was probably keeping the French economy afloat. For that I am grateful, since I hope to move to France.
Even though this is a somewhat dated video, I can't help but speak up given the number of folks who are keen on the Kawai (including Annie, who has a marvelous voice). To me, it was thinnest sounding and most uninteresting of the bunch. The Yamaha had a nicely balanced sound and, as Stu noted, would be my first choice for studio recording (I have a Yamaha C7 that I use for that purpose, so perhaps I'm biased). The Steinway hit it out of the park for overall tonality and expression. It should be pointed out that none of the instruments was played loudly, and I suspect that is where the Steinway would especially shine given its broad dynamic range. BTW, I'm listening through a pair of studio monitors in a treated room, so all of the nuances of the recordings are coming through quite well. And it may be this reality that doesn't serve the Kawai as well for my ears given that it appears not to be the highest quality of the piano samples being used for the demonstration.
Hi Stan! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! At the end of the day, tonal preference is a highly personal and subjective matter. What resonates with one player may not resonate with the next. There is also the notion of "different tools for different jobs". Each of these instruments presents a very distinct and unique musical voice. They are all beautiful and expressive in their own way and could cater to specific playing styles and genres. The ideal situation would be to own all three instruments of course! :)
@@MerriamPianos Thanks for the quick reply to my comment, Brent. What I didn't realize when I made the post is that Merriam Music is a Kawai dealer. While that certainly doesn't diminish the usefulness of the comparison video, it does provide some context. Again, thanks for reaching out, and I certainly agree that the choice of a piano is a very personal, and subjective, decision.
Just for me, Kawai sounds better than other two and hit the emotional points of mine, but Yamaha or Steinway sounds less beautiful than I know actually on real acoustic CFX or Steinway D. This might be made by Kawai by intention. But for Kawai, real SK sounds also better in acoustic SK. This might happen because of the lack of overtone. Excellent experiment! My conclusion was, even thru UA-cam level sound quality, real acoustic full concert grands are better than digitally reproduced. I felt fairly big gap between real and digital, even thru Stu’s wonderful play of keyboards. No doubt the most beautiful sounds in this video was the voice. Digital engineers would need make further more steps to improve digital sounds.
Grands are very personal. I love some Ds and others are I find just OK. Same with CFXs. SK-EXs are harder to find so I don't have the varied experiences hearing them live as I do with Ds and CFXs (and 7 foot Steinways and Yamahas). From recordings of smaller Shigerus and of GX Kawais and experiences with RXs, it also depends on the grand. The room makes a difference, the temperature of the room, the tech that voices it, so many things come into play. These are all top-tier instruments.
The actual sound that VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX produce is not what Stu is making them sound in this video. You can easily check that by comparing this video with other videos on UA-cam, including Stu's own videos of these instruments using the Roland RD2000 as a MIDI controller. He either turned up the MIDI velocity curve, or settings, for this video, rendering the Steinway D and CFX sounding harsh, or he was not able to find a proper setting with this MIDI controller. If you are familiar with vst pianos, you know how sensitive they are to your MIDI velocity curve and your MIDI controller touch sensitivity level. He is using the NV5 as a MIDI controller, and either the MIDI impulse is too high for this VSL sample (coming from the NV5), or he modified the velocity curve in his DAW in a way that misrepresents the beautiful sound of the VSL samples. This is not a proper comparison by any stretch of the imagination, due to this situation. People think vst pianos are a plug-and-play instruments... they are not. You do get sound, but you have to spend time tweaking the velocity curve, and that is not a simple task at all.
@@Instrumental-Covers Stu connects best with Kawai, Bechstein and it seems Schimmel and on the digital side Casio, Roland, and Kawai. I agree that the Steinway and Yamaha VSL sound more enhanced on some of Stu's other videos.
@@benjaminsmith2287 There is the fact that Merriam Music sells Kawai, Roland, and Casio, and Bechstein, and Schimmel. There is also the fact that Merriam Music is not a Yamaha or Steinway dealer, although they have Amazon links for some Yamaha digital pianos, and if you use the links they get a commission. There is also the fact that VSL pianos do not sound this harsh in other videos available on UA-cam. Stu had a Steinway piano before... and also several Yamaha high-end keyboards that cost around $2,000-$3,000. So, he must have had a connection with Steinway and Yamaha before he worked for Merriam Music. Once again, I don't know if you are familiar with vst pianos, but if you crank up the MIDI velocity modifier about 20 points, you will get the sound of this Steinway... you can do that for any vst piano and the result will be a harsh sound because the software is only triggering the fortissimo samples.
I believe the SK-EX samples you are hearing in this video are directly from the Kawai NV5S, so, unfortunately, these particular recordings are not available as standalone samples.
Hey everybody! To clarify, the digital piano speakers were muted for the test. All three pianos were coming through the DAW / studio monitors at the same volume, and an effort was made to select settings that neutralized any differences in ambience and touch curve behaviors. One of our regular and respected commenters on the channel made the good point that this wasn't specified in the video, so we thought it best to state it here :)
@@zvelekva If you listen to recordings of an actual Steinway D or Yamaha CFX, you will realize they sound far more beautiful and smooth than the sound produced by this VSL + NV5 keyboard combo. The most likely reason is that the NV5 is being used here as a MIDI controller, and it is definitely not doing a very good job in mapping the velocities of those vst pianos. If you listen to other UA-cam players using VSL, you will see they produce a beautiful sound with smooth transitions and the notes don't sound harsh and clunky, as in this video. The most likely reason is: they may be using a professional MIDI controller, or they have some type of MIDI velocity mapping software. This is one of the weak points of vst pianos: the synergy needed between MIDI controller and vst piano engine. It doesn't matter if you are a great pianist, you can't play properly with a mismatched velocity curve. VSL may have 100 dynamic velocity levels, but the question is: is your MIDI controller really hitting the exact velocity per note needed to produce a beautiful sound, the way it was intended by VSL? This is like assembling a computer using different parts that don't work well with each other. Kawai, on the other hand, has adjusted the MIDI velocities and sound engine just for that "MIDI controller" (the keyboard of the piano). Everything has been already debugged at the factory by Kawai expert technicians. My Yamaha digital piano sounds much better using its built-in sample for that same reason. But one thing I can notice right away: the VSL Steinway D or CFX samples in this video sound as if the MIDI controller had the velocity curve cranked up or too narrow. The poor Steinway D has been rendered here not better than the "German D" Steinway on the Korg Krome. There is an obvious problem, despite Stu's best efforts. I have also made best efforts in making my vst pianos sound great, and I have never achieved it. So, maybe there is something else to tweak. But one way or the other, two things are sure: recordings of Steinway D and CFX show they sound way better than this digital representation, being smooth and with color, and also that there are VSL recordings that have managed, somehow, to make justice to those VSL pianos. This video, despite Stu best efforts at the moment, is not delivering that sound. The Kawai sample may be not as detailed from the factory, but it is using "the right shoes" (the keyboard MIDI velocities are properly mapped). It is better to use cheap clothes that fit your body, than expensive clothes that are baggy or too tight.
So, at least in my personal experience with digital pianos controlling vst pianos, the answer is: yes, there is a significant difference in dynamic CONTROL... you have no good control of the vst sample with a general purpose MIDI controller. You would need a professional MIDI controller and a dedicated MIDI velocity mapping software if you really want to have dynamic control over your vst piano. Otherwise, you are painting with a wide brush, and the painting will not be very good.
@@zvelekva I just wanted to state once again the basic problem here:
Both the Steinway D and Yamaha CFX are heavily misrepresented in this video. If you listen to recordings here on UA-cam of the real acoustic instruments, they don't sound like in this video at all. In addition, other videos on UA-cam of the VSL Steinway or CFX sound beautiful, not like in this comparison. Even Stu's own previous videos playing those vst pianos using his Roland RD2000 as a MIDI controller sound way better than in this video. There is no argument whatsoever that this video is a misrepresentation of the sound of VSL pianos. For that reason, although the video is not completely about which piano sounds better, it is mentioned twice, and the way the VSL samples were presented would invalidate the comparison.
Going back to the MIDI velocity issue: Is the NV5 at fault? Is the NV5 upright action not capable of producing the proper MIDI output? Something else?
The NV5 is not a dedicated professional MIDI controller. It is a digital piano with an upright piano action. How accurate is it as a MIDI controller for vst pianos? We don't know, and Kawai does not say it should be used as a MIDI controller either. How many samples does the NV5 have? Putting any number is just guessing. Digital pianos typically have a type of memory called "flash", different from the .wav files stored in a computer hard drive (which is what is used in vst pianos). Flash memory is expensive to implement, which is why digital pianos don't have very large samples. Even the NV10S that you are about to receive DOES NOT have a true Kawai SK-EX sample: Kawai chops the note after the initial attack to save memory. The Harmonic Imaging XL (Extra Large) is a bit better than the HI because it extends the attack portion of the note, but still chops it, then the rest (decay) is just FAKE sound digitally made up. The reverb is fake, the sympathetic resonance is fake, and all the extra sounds are fake, or "modeled". But the NV5 is a product that has been created to work flawlessly: everything has been maximized to work as good as possible at the factory, despite the shortcomings of the sample.
Most vst pianos come with some general MIDI velocity curves that will give you a bit of control over the samples, but you will need to be able to tweak each note individually. You will need some type of application that allows you to adjust the MIDI velocity of each note. This will need to be done for each vst piano individually.
When you open a vst piano inside a DAW, you have access to MIDI modifiers. You can control the sample smoothness by adding or subtracting points to the keyboard input. Ideally, you should be able to modify each MIDI impulse the keyboard sends to each individual note and adjust it as needed. The NV5 has a specific velocity touch that Stu is using in this video. That specific velocity touch can typically be changed in most digital pianos. For example, I can change my Touch Settings from 0 to 127, and make my CFX piano sample sound classical smooth or T-shirt-Hard-Rock harsh... just with adding or subtracting points. I can also do the same with my vst pianos, both via my digital piano or the MIDI modifiers in my DAW.
Stu says he made a best effort in setting these vst pianos to sound best... well, his best efforts are not working in this video. Even his Roland RD2000 made much more justice to the same samples... could it be an NV5 issue using its default settings?
For that reason, this video cannot be used to make statements about the sounds of these specific models. They are misrepresented, in favor of the Kawai, because the Kawai sample is not suffering from MIDI velocity mismatches, since it is adjusted with precision at the factory by Kawai technicians to sound its best.
By the way, you could also mess up the Kawai sample if you wanted. If you change the MIDI velocity settings in your NV10S and raise the points high enough, your NV10S will sound awfully harsh too.
@@zvelekva Hello again. I just wanted to add a few comments to the topic of dynamic control of a vst piano in general and your question regarding the difference in dynamic control between the SK-EX sample and the VSL sample. This should apply to any MIDI controller, including the NV10S used as such. I will take my own digital piano as as example. I just opened in Cubase a MIDI track and watched the MIDI Fader tab, which is giving me a reading of the MIDI values generated by my piano:
When I play soft passages, the velocities are located in the 25-60 range mainly. If I start playing with octaves, the numbers raise to 75. Playing those same octaves but rather powerful raises the number to 100. Very hard raises to keyboard to 110. I have to basically hit the keyboard insanely hard to hit 127. But the question is: did I really hit every number in that range? And even if I did, do I have that type of control in my fingers to generate 127 levels of pressure?
How many velocity levels can you realistically hit in a piano? Imagine you were tapping on a table with your finger: how many different levels of tapping force can you realistically measure? Even further: how many levels of tapping force can you precisely control with your fingers? I think the number is quite modest.
Can you realistically produce 127 levels of force with your fingers on a piano key? I think 10 levels of force is, realistically, quite high. Unless you are a robot.
Furthermore, what is the difference in piano sound between, let's say, force level 98 and force level 99? Can you even notice the difference on a piano if you had a robot to accurately produce 127 levels of force?
I think you could very well have a modest Kawai SK-EX sample with 6 velocities and still do great.
Going back to my example with my digital piano: I noticed that the MIDI velocities are unstable. I can't produce 127 levels of velocity with my fingers using my piano. I can make the piano trigger values in several zones of the range of [0,127], but that doesn't mean that I can accurately produce, let's say, velocity value #64 if you ask me, or velocity value #73. A robot can do that I guess, but not a person.
More realistically, I can produce force values that will consistently fall in a few intervals, for example: [0,25], [26,60], [61,75], [76,100]... basically 4 dynamic levels... which is why a digital piano with 4 layers is more than adequate for most situations. And once again, even if you were able to produce with absolute accuracy (you won't) every single force value between 0-127, the sample #74 and #75 (to give an example) as produced by a robot, will not be have a discernible difference.
Think of a real piano: can you extract from a single key 127 different sounds in both level and tonality?
To finish this comment: I can almost guarantee that, once you play with a vst piano for a while, you will realize that it is not a great idea. Unless you want to spend the time and effort designing the perfect velocity curve that the Kawai technicians created for that Kawai sample, you will likely abandon your vst piano and stick to your Kawai sample. I think vst pianos are better left for recording and playing back MIDI tracks that you could possibly adjust in a DAW... but for live performing in a digital piano, use its built-in sample.
@@Instrumental-Covers many years ago I had a cheap Yamaha DP which I used for travelling. It lacked proper weighted keys, and the tones were very poor. (But nothing was lighter in those days.) I also had a Yamaha expander sound box. It might have been the EMT1. I could connect them together with a MIDI legacy cable, and thus use the nicer piano tones on the box, but I noticed that the touch sensitivity went a bit strange. I could not find a very pleasing touch sensitivity on the DP for controlling the tones on the box. I suspect that you've been discussing a similar problem, only on a grander scale.
@@zvelekva I have played with both Pianoteq 4 and Pianoteq 7. To me, they sound fake, particularly in the upper harmonics of each note. I think the whole Pianoteq reputation of being more "organic" started about 10 years ago when multi-sample engines were not using a lot of modeling and transitions were more obvious. I wouldn't waste my time with Pianoteq, especially if you value an authentic tone. Kawai digital pianos don't have exactly a full Kawai sample, but at least it is based on a real piano. Pianoteq is complete simulation. Nowadays, the best option is to use a digital piano like the NV10S. Let Kawai do the velocity curve hard work for you, and don't bother with VSL for actual live playing. If you want to record an album and know how to tweak MIDI and use a DAW, then buy VSL. That would be my suggestion. Enjoy your new Kawai!
Talk about a dynamic duo! Annie has a killer beautiful voice. Of course, Stu's piano chops are second to none. Excellent video, fun to listen.
I 100% agree with Annie! Kawai is so warm. Reminds of the C. Bechstein tone. It beautifully complimented her voice!
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I agree with her. The Kawai Sk Ex concert grand is amazing.
The Kawai SK-EX sample set is one of my favourite sample sets out there! They provide a very musically rewarding sound to say the least! :)
The warm, beautiful, and oh so musical sound of a well voiced Kawai. I recognized it instantly. I may not own an SK-EX but I can assure you, after carefully voicing and and regulating my Kawai K300, not a day goes by that she doesn't touch my soul. I bought her used in January 2020. A childhood dream fulfilled and the best purchase I've ever made.
Kawai
@@glennallen4634 Are all Kawai pianos warm? One of the very few Kawai piano libraries out there is the "Kawai-EX Pro" by Acoustic Samples. They describe the piano this way, "The Kawai-EX Pro sample Library is a fabulous, powerful and bright 9-foot (276cm) KAWAI EX concert grand piano that used to be in the Kennedy Center in Washington DC." Notice they used the adjective "bright". Is "bright" a synonym of "bad" and "warm" a synonym of "good"? I would also like to hear your description of what it means to be "warm". By the way, the samples of the VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX are being misrepresented in this video, most likely due to the MIDI velocity curve used. If you are familiar with vst pianos, you know you can render anyone of them terribly harsh and lacking expression by simply not dialing in the proper velocity curve. You can check that by listening to the same pianos in other videos... including Stu's own previous videos, where he didn't feature his favorite Kawai for comparison.
@Patrick Bai Hello Patrick, it was a rhetorical question to make the point that not all Kawai pianos are "warm". The stereotype is that Kawai is "warm" and Yamaha is "bright", Kawai is for classical and Yamaha is for pop. This video helps to consolidate that sentiment by rendering the Steinway and Yamaha vst pianos in a particular way (software pianos are dependent on the MIDI controller and velocity curve used). I have pointed out before that Merriam Music, being a Kawai dealer and not a Yamaha or Steinway dealer, sees things in one particular way. In real life, all these pianos are great, and Kawai is largely exaggerated over the other 2 brands in this channel.
I always thought piano reviews couldn't be any better than yours, but you managed to raise the bar again, Stu. Kudos to you. 👏👍🙏
Very fun experiment. 😃But, here are some issues to be aware of with this particular experiment. I have done similar experiments and I can share a few things to keep in mind:
1) This is not really an apples-to-apples comparison, because the Kawai sound is coming from a digital piano, and I will elaborate below why this matters. It would have been an apples-to-apples if Vienna Symphonic Library had a VSL SK-EX. But they don't. In fact, almost nobody records Kawai pianos. It is very difficult to find good quality vst Kawai pianos. Most vst piano companies record Steinway, Yamaha, Fazioli. Almost no one records Kawai pianos.
2) I have done similar experiments with the CFX built-in on my digital piano, and compared to the Garritan CFX, Ivory Pianos II (Bösendorfer, Steinway, Yamaha C7), and some of the Native Instruments grand pianos. The difference is extremely obvious, and this is why:
You can tell right away when you are playing the built-in CFX, for one simple reason: the speaker system has been designed exclusively for that sample. Digital piano samples are meant to be played via the speaker system, especially in premium pianos like the Novus NV5, or a Yamaha AvantGrand. What you pay in these pianos is basically a better action and a speaker system designed for that sample. If you play another sample, the speaker system will tell you that right away. The acoustics are different, the sound typically is more distant, more reverberant, not as crisp.
Apparently, the test was done using the built-in speaker system of the Novus NV5 for Stu to use as the reference to judge the pianos. In that case, the Kawai sample will be very clear to choose for the player. In the same manner that, in my digital piano, nothing sounds as good through the built-in speaker system than the built-in CFX sample. Because Yamaha tuned that speaker system for it. In fact, Yamaha uses both an anechoic chamber AND a 3D semi-anechoic chamber to tune in the speakers in their Clavinova series, with microphone feedback from a multitude of microphones to detect sound pressure in a hemispheric grid, to make the speakers particularly calibrated for the built-in sample.
To make the test a bit more accurate, the proper speakers should have been not the built-in speakers, but a pair of studio monitors. That is of course the NV5 speakers were used. If Stu was listening to his studio monitors from a distance, that would be different.
3) The keyboard used is not a general purpose MIDI controller. The piano sample on the NV5 is carefully adjusted by Kawai at the factory, to sound its best for this specific action. People who use vst pianos know this is a big deal: if your MIDI controller is not optimally adjusted for that piano sample, you will not make justice to the sample. That is why some vst pianos, like Pianoteq, will have dedicated Velocity Curves for different brands and models.
4) Annie's comment at 19:27 that she felt that "the Kawai had more emotion"... If the NV5 speakers were used for the test: that exactly is what should happen, since the Kawai speaker system is designed just for that sample. I experience the same with my digital piano: the CFX built-in sounds way better through its dedicated speaker system than the vst pianos. If you play a vst piano through a speaker system that is NOT designed for it, then those vst pianos will not sound as good. The only way to make an unbiased statement here would be to use a pair of studio monitors without looking at which sample you are selecting. If studio monitors were used in the test, but you already like Kawai and you look at your selection, then the selection process contains some elements that may introduce bias.
5) These are digital recordings with unspecified settings in the modeling engines: we don't know if each piano was optimally adjusted for the playing through those Kawai piano-purposely-designed speakers. We don't know if the recordings played through another speaker system, like a high quality pair of studio monitors, have the samples optimally designed. Modeling engines offer so many parameters that can be tweaked.
6) I used a pair of flat studio headphones and a Tascam audio interface. To me, during the duo parts (singing), the Yamaha actually sounded best, and the Kawai sounded the most flat, meaning less color in the sample. In addition, I could hear the sample being shorter, with less decay. Kawai uses the Harmonic Imaging XL in their SK-EX Rendering engine, which they clearly state in their website is not a full sample of the note, but the attack portion of the note. That what "XL" means: extra large... meaning larger than the regular Harmonic Imaging, but not a full decay recording. Premium vst pianos like VSL record the entire note, and you can tell. That is why they are huge libraries. The Kawai had also a narrower stereo field. This is probably because that sample is not meant to be used for recordings, but built specifically for a piano replacement. The VSL pianos are probably meant for studio recordings.
7) The word "warm" can be easily misused. It is a vague word. It can mean at least two different things:
- A "preferential" adjective: people may use the word as a synonym for "sweet", "musical" sound.. which is another way of saying: I like this sound, so I am going to call it "warm". This is then an opinion, not a fact.
- An "analytical" adjective: the word "warm" can be used to mean "rolled off treble", "less definition", "less separation", "more mid-bass pronounced", "more blended". In that sense, it is not an opinion, but a fact that can be analyzed in a frequency spectrum analyzer, or appreciated by ear, and does not mean a "better" sound, just a description of it.
To evaluate a piano as "warm" in the first sense, it is an opinion. Somebody might just have a different pick or taste. The second use is more objective, and refers to a characteristic of the sound, and does not imply preference.
When the word "warm" is used, it should be used in the 2nd sense to be objective. Otherwise, you are just giving an opinion. Blended sounds with less definition are liked by many people, but this is not a measurement of quality, but an aspect of the sound.
8) A more accurate experiment would be:
a) Test pianos recorded by the same company
b) Use a MIDI controller that has not been adjusted for a particular sample (the MIDI controller used here is adjusted for the Kawai sample). Use the best possible settings to adjust the velocity curve for EACH piano separately. Do not the same MIDI controller setting for the different pianos. Each piano needs its own velocity curve to produce the best sound.
c) Tweak each piano to sound optimally. This will be already subjective, but the effort can be made. Maybe invite a Yamaha or Steinway musician, to balance the preferences, and let them adjust their favorite sample to sound its best.
9) For the audience: playing samples that people cannot see and are identified by numbers (Piano #1, Piano #2, etc.) will be a more objective way to evaluate a piano sound. Most people have their own preferences a priori. For example, for some people, when they see the name "Kawai", they immediately will like what they hear, even before anything is played. If they see the name "Yamaha", they will immediately hear "cold, simple sound" etc., and whatever their pre-conceptions are will influence their listening experience.
Hey Instrumental Covers - I never even thought to clarify this but makes sense to: the Novus 5 speakers were 100% inactive for this, and the sound from the piano was sending from the line-out's into our interface and out of the studio monitors, so it was the same level and sonic source when I was hearing all three. None of the piano's three sounds were coming through the Novus - it was used exclusively as a controller (and signal source for the SKEX) in this case. I think I'll add that to description so people are aware. - Cheers!, stu
@@MerriamPianos Hi Stu, that was good to know. As I mentioned, it was not clear the method of playing back the sample, so I imagined both possibilities. I think the Kawai sample should be a lot easier to tell than the other two, because it is a sample done with a different purpose and a different sonic character by a different company. For example, I can easily tell the difference between the CFX sample of my DGX 670 and the CFX by Garritan. It is very obvious through headphones or speakers. And it is supposed to be the same CFX piano. Built-in piano samples in digital pianos are fairly different than vst pianos. There are several elements involved in them that make them different. For example, Kawai samples their pianos in an anechoic chamber. It is a dry sound with a note that is not full (no Kawai digital piano has fully recorded notes, which Kawai clearly state in their website when they explain what HI-XL is), then artificial modeling artifacts are added, most likely some looping must occur or some type of extension to the note that is not the real note, a sort of digital simulation. The reverb is fake as well. But vst pianos seem to be typically recorded not in anechoic chambers, so they do have a different character, reverb, decay, and level of detail (particularly in a recording by VSL). Since you are using Genelec studio monitors, the difference should become even more obvious. Great fun experiment! 😀
You should just have done a Kindle Book LOL My word.
@@africanhistory 😄
Dude wrote a PhD thesis on the topic lmao
I tried to recognize them blind like you and mixed Steinway and Yamaha sometimes... but always recognized the Kawai immediately: It has a really warm sound full of colors. They are all wonderful: The Steinway is the choice if you need something for all kind of music and especially for the concert with a large orchestra. The Yamaha has the most neutral sound, works good in a band and would be my choice for pop music. The Kawai is the choice for solo playing or for accompanying such a wonderful voice like Annie's. I love the intimacy of the Kawai. Only got the money for an Digital Piano though... but that's a Kawai...
What does "warm" mean?
You are assuming you listened to the true sound of the software pianos as intended by VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX. You didn't. Both instruments are suffering in this recording of a technical problem related to the so-called "MIDI velocity curve", which has rendered them harsh sounding. A comparison of the piano tones is invalid. If you listen to other recordings of this same virtual instrument, you will hear the difference. I don't know if you are familiar with virtual instruments, but you can instantly render a software instrument harsh by adding about 20 points on the velocity curve. Comparing a well regulated Kawai sample built-in on the digital piano NV5 with two badly misrepresented Steinway D and Yamaha CFX samples is not a fair test. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison. If you like an actual acoustic Kawai piano over other pianos, that is fine. But what is not OK is to present the sounds as heard on this video as the true sound of the Vienna Symphonic Library VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX software pianos.
@@benjaminsmith2287 ...difficult to describe... It is "thicker" in the tone, especially in the mids... the sound has more "colors" and they match in a harmonic way. In the end, this behaviour is less universal, than (for example) a Steinway is. And the Kawai is way more dificult to mix with other instrument in a studio environment because the sound "covers" and is covered by other instruments too much. But it is not as mellow in quiet passages as the Boesendorfer. In the end, it is a matter of what you like. Never buy a Piano without playing and hearing it, no matter whether Grand, Upright or Digital.
@@Instrumental-Covers You are completely right. I learned to play piano on a Yamaha Baby Grand in the 1970ties, and i loved the instrument. At home, I had an old, always mistuned upright (I do not remember the brand) which was really bad, but it was my friend in difficult times, so I loved it, too. I played a few times on a Steinway B-Model from 1963, and loved it. I had one of the first Yamaha Clavinova in the 80ies, and was happy to have an instrument at all. Form all of the sampling instruments, I choose the Abbey Yamaha CFX from Garritan, and this is great. I played only twice on a Kawai grand, not a Shigaru, but I listen oft to concerts, live or on a really sophisticated HiFi system, and BTW: If you have different Steinways , the differences between the instruments can be extreme.
@@rustydusty3863 I think of Kawai as having a full bodied tone. I think the official definition of a warm tone is a tone that has a fair amount of bass in the tenor and alto registers. A dark tone has even more bass in it. And I guess a bright tone has less bass. But the thing is, some pianos have almost conflicting qualities to their tones, bright and darkness in their tones. Or bright tones with warmth.
Thanks for your well detailed answer.
Your wife's vocal was stunningly good and I'm with her for that kind of performance with Kawai. I appreciate the Yamaha as the most versatile and "neutral" instrument. I never could understand, why people like the Steinway so much, although I'm from Germany. ;-) To be honest, I don't think I would distinguish between the models in a live session as a listener, so I think everyone artist should use the instrument he feels best about. And all of the instruments today are on a level of tonal excellence and sheer perfect build quality.
I agree with you. Steinways are best enjoyed by themselves or with an orchestra. Yamahas are good for anything, especially with a singer. Kawais are like Yamahas but with more wood and warmth with a sound and experience that benefits the piano player more than the other musicians, say when playing in a band.
It's not fair. I mean, Stu has his ears sooo well trained. He spends a lot of time recording videos about comparisons, plus he has a variety of instruments in the show room of his own shop where I am shure he spends a lot of time playing them. Of course he would get it right. Stu is the most known piano specialist on u tube to me. Legend!
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I can't disagree with you on that front! Stu has golden ears to put things lightly. With that said, his ability to blindly discern between piano voices is quite impressive! :)
Hey, I think I've seen nearly all of your videos, really! Most of them very intersting and useful - and I never wrote anything. But today I found this one and the beauty of what you both did has blown me away!
So I say thank you with all of my heart.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you so much for supporting our videos and channel! We sincerely appreciate it. I will certainly pass on the kind words to Stu as well. I know he appreciates the support immensely as well! :)
Nice format... and I agree with your wife: I always felt VSL Steinway very cold, too ringy... CFX has always been my favorite.
Annie has a beautiful voice. Stu is a musical genius. Great couple ❤️
Fantastic test for Stu (and all of us!), and beautiful singing Annie! Wow, both of you!
Maybe the best video you’ve ever done Stu!
Stu is hitting way above his weight with Annie! Annie is perfectly made up, beautifully dressed and Stu is Sunday morning, unshaven and I’m a t-shirt! 😂
What a talented and nice couple though. 👍
Excellent video, Stu. Really enjoyed. I personally liked the way the CFX complemented Annie’s voice. You are right about how the tonality of the CFX doesn’t compete with the vocals. Keep the videos coming! Norm
She preferred the Kawai but would she if she listened back? The Yamaha didn't compete at all with her so her voice was highlighted he most with the Yamaha complementing her. Yet I think it is still an excellent solo instrument in that it almost enunciates as in speaks. It's more about attack intensity than the other two, even in the virtual form. The Kawai may have the softest hammers but is good at changing timbres in different dynamic ranges.
He plays like that and she sings like that. OK, you two are amazing.
“I had more emotion when I was listening to the it (Kawai)” “I felt more...” 19:26 ... it was very warm, more intimate” (Kawai) 25:36 “I really enjoyed the tone of the Kawai, it really complimented the voice “
The warmth and richness that the Kawai SKEX offers is truly special and captivating! :)
My favorite one: Yamaha
The most balanced: Kawai
The one I heated: Steinway
PDT: We need more of this on the channel please
I know why you hated Steinway: because the true sound of the VSL Steinway D is not that harsh. The sound was heavily misrepresented in this video due to a technical issue with the MIDI velocity curve of that vst piano. If you listen to other videos that use the same software piano, you will see the difference. The Steinway D by VSL actually has a beautiful sound, not what you heard here.
Her eyes, reactions, and trying not to say anything is just... so much fun to watch...
Thanks for tuning in! :)
I actually love that buzz of the Yamaha bass notes. I auditioned a C6X in Ottawa and I think I am in love. Also tried the Steinway Model D in another gallery and it had a beautiful action, but I'm not sure the tone is superior.
It all comes down to subjectivity and personal preference of course. The most important thing is to find an instrument that you resonate with. :)
It's amazing duos. I'm very impressed with this video. When you played as an accompanist, the Yamaha provides very good sound. The Steinway too which I think it's more color in some parts. But the Kawai provides different ambience, which is I think it can blanded very well with the singer. I think it would depend on personal choice. Thank you.
As a singer/pianist, myself, I found this video particularly fascinating.
Thanks for tuning in! We're happy to hear that you enjoyed the video. :)
I agree with Annie, the Kawai sounded slightly warmer and less harsh to my ears too.
Definitely the CFX (sample). The first Yamaha concert grand I really fell in love with. The clarity, without being cool, like the other Yamahas. The responsiveness is unequalled, the sound is instantly there (short attack), very quickly evolving in a full and transparent warm sound, but not fuzzy and can decay evenly fast, without problem. That amount of control is both the very heaven for a pianist, and for the listener. Your beautiful rich and very nuanced voice is in my opinion best suited with the Yamaha. OK, both other pianos aren't bad either, but not as nuanced and complete as the CFX. Incredible that after 300 years, it is still possible to develop and improve this stunning instrument, the love of my life. Thnx for this fine video.
You're very welcome! Thank you for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! We sincerely appreciate it. There are no doubts that all three of these instruments are incredible. They simply offer a different musical flavour that will resonate with different players based on their personal preferences in terms of tone. Thanks again and all the best! :)
@@MerriamPianos Keep on doing the good stuff!
BTW: I have a Nord Stage 4 and I'm really happy with it. But there is one drawback: Nord hasn't a CFX in their piano library. I miss that very much! Is it possible to use other samples with the Nord and if yes, is that different than playing a dedicated Nord sample? I played acoustical (analog) piano's almost all my life, but now I also like the versatility of digital machines. So my knowledge is rather limited on the matter. So please help me out, if you can. Thanks in advance!
Love the voice of Annie... what a beautiful couple!
If I can afford any piano I want, I would sélect the Shigeru (and maybe the Fazioli too). Love the warmth of the Shigeru.
But really, as a solo instrument on a concert stage, I think the Steinway is in a class of its own.
I used to hate the sound of a Yamaha, but the CFX changed my mind. The CFX is now one of the best in the world.
Annie and Stu are both incredibly talented! They're a musical power couple! :)
The Shigeru Kawai pianos are exceptional. The warmth, colour, power, and expressivity they possess is unparalleled to any other piano in its price category. These are instruments that definitely punch well above their weight class and offer excellent cost-to-value ratios for customers.
My wife and I just watched this together and we were both thinking the same thing with the final test, so it was fun when Annie said the same thing: Kawai best, Yamaha second best (but close), Steinway third.
Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your impressions! We appreciate it. :)
Awesome video Stu and Annie. Fascinating the way you ‘tuned your ear in” on the blind test (and then maybe tired at the 10th question). But Annie’s singing over your comping really takes the cake here.
My guess before the three singing experiments was that Annie would prefer singing over the Yamaha or the Kawai and put the Steinway last, because its tonal quality and colour would be competing with her vocals. In the end, the Kawai filled that spot, with its warmth, and the Yamaha by comparison leaving the singer cold (too clinical or plan vanilla or black and white / pen and pencil sketch?…and not giving the singer enough to work with).
The thing that struck me, right from the first note with the Steinway, was wow: Annie is singing the same song (same verse too) >completely< differently.
I had the sense that Annie had to work a lot harder (and think more?) with the Steinway. As a listener, I liked the performance with the Steinway the best. (Opposite of my expectation).
Annie seemed most relaxed and comfortable with the Kawai, so I can get why she rated it first.
Would be interesting if her rating as a listener would be different…even (or especially!) a year later.
Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for tuning in and for these wonderful insights! It is certainly very interesting to see a performer's reaction to an instrument that is accompanying them (even when it comes to the most subtle/nuanced changes in body language or performance approach). I will be sure to pass on your kind words to Stu and Annie! :)
I’ve found my absolute favourite youtube-channel ever. Subscribed instantly.
Thank you so much! We sincerely appreciate your support and subscription! :)
Most interesting ❣️ The first one I had the funny feeling of “oh please shut off the piano, it’s irritating my listening of her beautiful voice”. The second one compared to the first it appeared to me “just professional” and the third was a “perfect fit” totally in harmony with Anni’s performance. Loved it ❣️
Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your insights! We appreciate it. :)
This was super fun to guess along with you. Pegged the Kawai the first time around but was duped more than a few times throughout.
Hey stud you are a Lucky Guy... Now seriously. I LOVE your videos. Bought a fp30x and i LOVE It too. Thanks for tour work!!!
Wow, Annie has amazing tone! Big fan of your vids; helped me land a Schimmel K195.
I think she's probably the best judge as she can feel how it's working with her voice. When it comes to Saxophone tone a lot of it is generated in the player's nasal cavity. If Kwanzala Harris was a piano, they would be hard to sell.
This is "technical experimentation as entertainment." I really enjoyed it!
Fun video. More Annie videos! She's great too.
Wow! Annie’s voice is so beautiful. And Stu… you are a master pianist. Thank you for sharing your talents! Anyway, I agree with Annie regarding Kawai having more warm and emotion.
Thanks so much for tuning in! Stu and Annie are quite the talented duo! I will be sure to pass on your kind words to them. :)
@@MerriamPianos Thank you!
I LOVED this comparison. ❤️
And she's lovely too, Stu!
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in! We're glad you enjoyed the video! :)
Very interesting test. I definitely prefer the Kawai. Wonder how many we'd get right in a blind test. Fun to listen to.
yep, me too. The Kawai just had a certain something that set it apart for me
Yamaha CFX blended with her voice the best! It gives off the best aura for this music.
Thanks so much for tuning in! I'll be happy to pass on the kind words to Stu and Annie! :)
@@MerriamPianos no worries. Btw, I agree with her opinion on steinway, for some reason it just doesnt sound as good, especially because it is right after CFX. Kawai sounds better than steinway, but the impression isnt as strong as when she sings with CFX. That's why her voice sounds best with CFX, it's just beautiful!
Great video again! Would love to hear a full project from you two featuring only your incredible playing and her fantastic vocals.
Lots of fun. Thanks!
Wow!!! the kawai is so intimate and romantic sound. So unique, he is able to pick it everytime. It really sounds amazing. My favorite.
There is a distinct beauty to the warm Kawai sound that is hard to mess once you are familiar with it. Thanks for tuning in! :)
At 18:50 Stu transforms into Michael Scott from the Office. Astounding.
Haha I can see it! ;)
Annie has a beautiful voice❤absolutely gorgeous
Love this video. Thank you Stu and Annie
Thanks for tuning in! I will be sure to pass on your kind words to Stu and Annie! And I certainly agree! Annie has a tremendous voice! :)
To me this video just goes to show...pick a piano that works for you, for what ever the reasons are, and learn to play it well. Beautiful piano music is going to sound great on any platform if played well. Good job! And +1 for Kawai =-)
Hi Stu and Annie, you two are absolutely amazing !
What a fun, interesting and beautiful video!
We're glad you enjoyed it! :)
great review and fantastic music which is always a highlight of stu's reviews, but added bonus this time. any kids who grow up in that household are going to have seriously good ears
10:23 Steinway played
11:19 Kawai guessed (but corrected to Steinway at next sample)
---
11:27 Kawai played
12:27 Kawai guessed
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12:56 Steinway played
13:28 Yamaha guessed *(1st wrong)*
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13:33 Steinway played
14:17 Steinway guessed
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14:24 Yamaha played
14:50 Yamaha guessed
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14:56 Kawai played
15:33 Kawai guessed
---
15:38 Steinway played
16:27 Steinway guessed
---
16:32 Kawai played
16:40 Kawai guessed
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17:31 Kawai played
17:43 Kawai guessed
---
17:49 Yamaha played
18:40 Steinway guessed *(2nd wrong)*
So it is 8 out of 10.
Still remarkable result.
Well done, Stu
:)
Loved the Kawai :)
The Kawai SKEX samples are amazing! They are some of my favourites as well! :)
Absolutely brilliant video, kudos to you two ✨👍
We're glad you enjoyed it! I will certainly pass the kind words on to Stu and Annie for you! :)
13:59 - Brahms Intermezzo Opus 118, No. 2 - a piece worth the attention of classical music enthusiasts & worth Stu recording on a demo someday. Thank you both.
I have recorded this piece on Kawai GL20 pls check and whether you like the sound of the Kawai.
@@KevinR3i Hey thanks - sounding good!
Great work Stu with your talented wife. Both of you have perceptive ear for the Kawai SK-EX. A fun and interesting challenge.
Goodlord, that was so nice with ms Bonsignore. With an interruptio sine qua non three times when beautiful music started, by vulgar advertisements. But I'm not complaining. Beautiful voice. Beautiful piano playing. I felt the Steinway was the most recognizable especially in the midrange. It has some "ring" but in piano solo that can make it more interesting where many others sound thin and tinny. Yes, that competes a bit with the human voice that is precisely in that range. Albeit that may have been a matter of recording/mixing too.
I was wondering the whole time, from a highest end audiophile perspective - while listening through lossy compressed MP4 and desktop loudspeakers - how you played the virtual instruments back in your session. DA converter, amplification, headphone amplifier or anything that might influence what you hear and how you hear it.
Hey @JP dJ! So the VST's were hosted within Logic in a 24bit / 48kHz session, passing through a Clarrett Interface, and presented through a pair of Genelec monitors (8020a). The Kawai was also coming into the same session via analog 1/4" cables from the line-out, with the local speakers off. So I was hearing all three from the same perspective, though there was an extra D/A to A/D conversion occurring with the Kawai with the chain we had setup. And thanks for the comments, great to hear it was enjoyed :) -stu
I found myself looking for "tells". As you were playing the Kawai and playing chromatically down through the bass, there was a particular place where there was an obvious break, not sure if it's where the piano goes from double wound to single wound strings, but it stood out. Another piano, I'd have to go looking to see which the Steinway or the Yamaha, had one noted in the upper mid treble that sounded out of tune when played a certain way. I can see how those little things could stand out really quickly to someone with a critical ear and/or drive a person nuts over time when they can't be fixed and they can't stop hearing them.
Absolutely! The devil is in the detail as they say! Small little nuances can be very distinguishable features when it comes to tone. :)
とても興味深く楽しませて頂きました。
そして、Yamaha/Steinway/Kawai それぞれの音源よりも奥様の歌の方が素晴らしい。
Awesome segment, Stu! Looking forward to the album... :-)
What a stunning voice !!! Musical power couple !
Thank you so much for the compliment and kind words! :)
That video is so damn awesome.
Thanks Jim!! Really glad you enjoyed it! We certainly enjoyed making it :) -Stu
Although I’m not a professional, I can tell the differences amongst the 3 pianos and I guessed all correct. (I’ve been listening to music for more than 40 years). Similar to Annie, I prefer Kawai the most, as it blended with her voice the best, and it’s the most touching of all 3 renditions and communicates her feeling wholeheartedly. And then followed by Yamaha, and Steinway in that order.
This is some of the stuff I want to do with my wife. Just having fun making music.
A fun video from a beautiful talented couple, well done, more please, thanks.
Nice video. I couldn’t keep my eyes off the beautiful …. Stratocaster …. in the background!
Wow! :) Amazing job, both of you 😀
Imagine, The Kawai did sound the best. I do not think they would be like that if they were acoustics. On my end the audio was not received well enough (based on my setup?) to hear a massive difference. Think the dynamic range over YT was limiting factor also.
lots of talent in the same room, album please!
Thanks for all the great reviews! I would like to know what Kawai piano Stu is playing in this video. Is it one of the hybrids? Thanks again !
You're very welcome! Thanks so much for the kind words and for tuning in! Stu is playing his NV5 in this video! :)
Hey Stu, may I suggest that at the end of your videos have Annie perform a song. Oh, and if I haven't told you before, I find your videos very informative.
Impressive! I can make the difference between a Steinway and a Fender Rhodes and a Harpsichord pretty accurately and that's pretty much it. Joke asides, I can make the difference between a well built piano and a poor quality one but I can't tell between high level one.
It is going to be very interesting and I am not sure what to expect. These questions have to be asked (and perhaps answered, even though the answers may be very subjective and depend on personal preferences) because otherwise we are just chasing some illusions.
Virtual pianos are inherently illusions.
I was very glad that Stu did so well. I learned that Steinway sound is not necessarily the one I liked the most. Very interesting for me and it reinforces my recent thoughts that I should just get a hybrid digital piano and forget about aspiring to ever own an acoustic one.
I liked the Steinway , then the Kawai and the Yamaha last, The Steinway is very articulate and contrast quite nicely with your wife's beautiful voice.
Stu and Annie, great comparison video! I was wondering if you ran the NV5 to the DAW/audio interface via 1/4" TRS as an external instrument? I was assuming you we listening to the VST s through the Kawai somehow but it sounds like the studio monitors were behind you during the listening test.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and writing in with your question. I am not exactly sure how Stu ran the VST audio in real-time for this video, but my guess would be that he used the studio monitors. Thanks again and all the best!
I got 8/10! Got the last 2 wrong! Love this video!
Very nice work! Thanks so much for tuning in! :)
I think Stu was just getting tired by the time the last one came up. A brilliant "blindfold" test with positive results. Now can we guess where Annie is from? Maybe born in Australia, but been in Canada or the US for a long time? A great singing voice anyway. Thanks for this very enjoyable team effort.
South Africa. I was curious too so I googled.
@@adamrobinson8620 Damn! I nearly said South Africa. It's such a light accent anyway.
Great video! Can the Kawai ES920 use the same VSTs as you used on the NV5?
Thanks so much! We appreciate it. Yup! Any MIDI compatible digital piano can be used to control any VST plugin, including the ES920. :)
very, very very bautiful video!!! THANKS!!!!! I think YAMAHA is doing a very good Job!!!
The Kawai was so distinct, but of the ones that weren't kawai, I only got 50% right. This Yamaha sounds like a Steinway I swear to god.
Great Video! I was trying to guess too, specially when the playing is jazzy it was difficult for me but with long played notes i could here characteristics…. Beautiful voice! Can i ask what vst library you were using? ist that from vienna orchestra? I personally like synthogy grand piano steinway. Looking forward for more videos, you two are so gifted. Rene
I think Annie would win masked singer. And 27:20 --- it's understandable, as each sort of piano has its own tonal characteristics. A particular kind of piano may not suit particular sorts of pop music, and might not best match the voice of a particular singer. So having options to handle particular cases is what it will be about. Also - when samples are being recorded - the configuration and quality of the microphones, and the room or hall etc ----- are part of the picture too. And also adding - which everybody can see already - Stu's piano playing solid, reliable. Amazing.
Most players play a certain piano because they are sponsored in some way by the manufacturer. There's a young gal here in Denver who is a "Steinway Artist." Gerald Clayton who I worship is a "Yamaha Artist." As such the venue will have to rent the brand of piano the artist represents. Over many years, Steinway went out of its way to make certain the best pianists were seen playing their pianos. My pick for an acoustic grand is Mason & Hamlin, but I don't believe they have ever been discussed on this channel.
@@JoeLinux2000 True. Good points you made. Competition and big business drives people to put in their best effort to maintain good quality design and components. Ideally - it is nice to just be (even at first or for a while) to not know the brand of instrument being played --- and only focus on the sound of it - and to use it for the particular application. Although - for some cases - if options are limited, we can only make do with what we have access to. If the Mason and Hamlin hasn't yet been sampled professionally - then that would certainly be nice to add to the sound collection.
That chick's got some serious talent. Should have been a pop star.
Annie has a wonderful voice! Stu and Annie are immensely talented duo. :)
Stu, you played all of these on a Kawai piano, could you please post what model it is. Also were we hearing this through speakers, the Kawai soundboard via transducers or direct line? Thank you so much for your channel.
Amaziiiiiig !! and yes Kawai all day long !! :) . question here what Kawai model stu Plays the one in the room looks amazing
That would be the amazing Kawai NV5 digital hybrid! ;)
Thank you for tuning in!
Fantastic ... ty! Where can I find a VSL (or close to it) quality Kawai VST?? Anything better than Kawai EX Pro by Acoustic Samples?
Really fun to watch..
Hello! Best regards👋🏼 I really liked this type of hearing test that is excellent for differentiating and identifying the differences between these 3 magnificent pianos, both for their tonal frequencies, warmth, resonance, sleaze, and expression among many characteristics🎹👍🏻 obviously Stu he is an excellent and talented pianist and manages to get the best out of these variants of these magnificent pianos💪💪💪 coincidentallyI am a lover of the 3💙🎹🎹🎹 however in this test I agree with the beautiful lady when she pointed to the kawai and also about what she said In relation to the last mistake between Yamaha and Steinway😏, however, I think in my humble opinion, (as a keyboard player) (not a pianist) that the sound of the Yamaha is unmistakable regardless of the variants, especially in the bass and mids. excellent video guys! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😊😎
Cute couple doing cute things (music edition).
And yet it is helpful when choosing digital or real piano - brand matters (kind of).
The voice sounds better with the esteinway, congraulations.
First of all this comparison is not a comparison of the real pianos, but a comparison of recordings of three different pianos. Almost everyone argues that the sound of a live acoustic instrument is better than the sound of a sample which is very much affected by the speakers. In this case, I conjecture all three recorded instruments will be projected from the same speakers.
Finally pianos are very much affected by what is known as "the scale," which is the diameter of wire on each individual note. After that the voicing of the hammers is extremely important. In the end the amount of "inharmonicity" is critical. This is the amount of inharmonic partials generated by the scaling. The question should be, "Can I tell the difference between the VSL virtual pianos?"
I'm a Pianoteq player and have around a half dozen of their pianos. There are many variations within each.
I'm going to guess:
1. Kawai
2. Steinway
3.Yamaha
4. and onward, too many to keep choosing
Bottom line, all top of the line pianos sound very good.
Indeed they do - it was super fun to guess and listen with even more detail to their differences, without a visual cue to hear which one I was playing. Fun stuff and thanks as always for the comments Internet Privacy Advocate!!
It is very easy to tell apart the built-in sample from any other sample when you use your built-in speakers. You have the DGX 670 and you play Pianoteq through its speakers via the USB audio interface. Yamaha tunes their speakers for the piano samples. I assume Kawai does the same. Anything else that you play through it will sound worse. Not because the sample is worse, but because the speaker system has been calibrated for the built-in sample. As you know, my hobby is to make speakers for digital pianos, and one thing I can tell you is this: I have to tweak the speaker system for different piano samples. You can't use the same speaker system with the same calibration for a random piano sample. So, when I play, for example, the Garritan CFX through my DGX 670 speakers, guess what? It doesn't sound too good. Why? Because the DGX 670 speakers are tuned for the CFX that is built-in, not the Garritan CFX.
@@Instrumental-Covers One weakness to the approach I'm using now is that both samples come thought the same speakers. When I use separate speakers it does give me much control over the individual voices. There's another aspect to it as well, which is amps. In the olden days I used to like the sound of the Eico ST-70 if you are old enough to know about that tube amp. The first transistor amps were not as good and even other tube amps weren't as good as the ST-70 was a kit which you had to solder together yourself which was very tedious. Transistor technology has come a long way since then.
@@JoeLinux2000 Yes, amplifiers are important. I often hear that tube amplifiers create 2nd harmonic distortions, which adds color to the sound, whereas transistor amplifiers add 3rd or 5th harmonic distortion to the sound, which results in inharmonicity, rendering the sound cold. Some amplifiers use a tube for the pre-amp stage, then transistors for the main amplifier to reduce that issue.
In the video on UA-cam where the German guy is comparing the Steinway, CFX and Bosendorfer playing those wonderful Liszt and Ravel excerpts, the CFX not only sounds completely distinct but imo much better than the Steinway.
They are all very excellent sounding VSTs, but every player will have their own personal preferences of course. :)
That's fabulous playing and preternatural guessing. I wouldn't have gotten one right except by chance.
Thanks so much for tuning in! We appreciate it and we're glad you enjoyed the video! :)
It would have been easier to hear from the real acoustic g. pianos. But there should have been also a Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner, too, to make it more difficult. I guess these three would be nearer to the Steinway/Hamburg.
We will have to tackle another tone shootout with different lines and manufacturers in the future! ;)
Just wondering, what VST are you using for the Yamaha CFX sample?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I would have to double check with Stu as to which VST was used for the CFX sample demonstrated in this video. I am not entirely sure, but I imagine it would either be the Garritan or VSL.
Steinway sample is clear superclean and loud, even in the top. Yamaha/Kawai sounds "better". Have they done something with the sample tuning of the Steinway and made it superclean? It's not that warm acoustic sounding Steinway sound even if it's a Steinway.
The Yamaha certainly blended better with the voice to my ears. Kawaii was next and Steinway last. Clearly Steinway was designed as a solo instrument without considering possibly being used as an accompanying instrument for vocals. Both Yamaha and Kawaii are younger (I think) than Steinway, and were probably designed with more varied musical uses in mind.
Richard Clayderman, a French pianist who holds the Guinness Book of World Records as being "the most successful pianist in the world", always used Yamaha pianos in his albums. He has recently switched to Steinway & Sons in his recordings, and it sounds wonderful. By the way, most of his recordings use an orchestra.
@@Instrumental-Covers Clayderman is not my favourite pianist (British understatement) but he certainly knows how to please large numbers of people. (So congratulations M. Richard Clayderman.) I had no idea that he is French. He is/was probably keeping the French economy afloat. For that I am grateful, since I hope to move to France.
@@Zoco101 Well, you play jazz... Richard Clayderman style is "Easy Listening"...
@@Instrumental-Covers True. What do you play?
@@Zoco101 I like easy listening type of genre as well.
Now following both of you, hope to hear more songs together soon :) .... By the way what is the name of the song that Annie sang ?
Thanks Carlos! The song is called ‘I Won’t Back Down’ by Tom Petty :)
Even though this is a somewhat dated video, I can't help but speak up given the number of folks who are keen on the Kawai (including Annie, who has a marvelous voice). To me, it was thinnest sounding and most uninteresting of the bunch. The Yamaha had a nicely balanced sound and, as Stu noted, would be my first choice for studio recording (I have a Yamaha C7 that I use for that purpose, so perhaps I'm biased). The Steinway hit it out of the park for overall tonality and expression. It should be pointed out that none of the instruments was played loudly, and I suspect that is where the Steinway would especially shine given its broad dynamic range. BTW, I'm listening through a pair of studio monitors in a treated room, so all of the nuances of the recordings are coming through quite well. And it may be this reality that doesn't serve the Kawai as well for my ears given that it appears not to be the highest quality of the piano samples being used for the demonstration.
Hi Stan! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! At the end of the day, tonal preference is a highly personal and subjective matter. What resonates with one player may not resonate with the next. There is also the notion of "different tools for different jobs". Each of these instruments presents a very distinct and unique musical voice. They are all beautiful and expressive in their own way and could cater to specific playing styles and genres. The ideal situation would be to own all three instruments of course! :)
@@MerriamPianos Thanks for the quick reply to my comment, Brent. What I didn't realize when I made the post is that Merriam Music is a Kawai dealer. While that certainly doesn't diminish the usefulness of the comparison video, it does provide some context. Again, thanks for reaching out, and I certainly agree that the choice of a piano is a very personal, and subjective, decision.
Just for me, Kawai sounds better than other two and hit the emotional points of mine, but Yamaha or Steinway sounds less beautiful than I know actually on real acoustic CFX or Steinway D. This might be made by Kawai by intention. But for Kawai, real SK sounds also better in acoustic SK. This might happen because of the lack of overtone. Excellent experiment! My conclusion was, even thru UA-cam level sound quality, real acoustic full concert grands are better than digitally reproduced. I felt fairly big gap between real and digital, even thru Stu’s wonderful play of keyboards. No doubt the most beautiful sounds in this video was the voice. Digital engineers would need make further more steps to improve digital sounds.
Grands are very personal. I love some Ds and others are I find just OK. Same with CFXs. SK-EXs are harder to find so I don't have the varied experiences hearing them live as I do with Ds and CFXs (and 7 foot Steinways and Yamahas). From recordings of smaller Shigerus and of GX Kawais and experiences with RXs, it also depends on the grand. The room makes a difference, the temperature of the room, the tech that voices it, so many things come into play. These are all top-tier instruments.
The actual sound that VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX produce is not what Stu is making them sound in this video. You can easily check that by comparing this video with other videos on UA-cam, including Stu's own videos of these instruments using the Roland RD2000 as a MIDI controller. He either turned up the MIDI velocity curve, or settings, for this video, rendering the Steinway D and CFX sounding harsh, or he was not able to find a proper setting with this MIDI controller. If you are familiar with vst pianos, you know how sensitive they are to your MIDI velocity curve and your MIDI controller touch sensitivity level. He is using the NV5 as a MIDI controller, and either the MIDI impulse is too high for this VSL sample (coming from the NV5), or he modified the velocity curve in his DAW in a way that misrepresents the beautiful sound of the VSL samples. This is not a proper comparison by any stretch of the imagination, due to this situation. People think vst pianos are a plug-and-play instruments... they are not. You do get sound, but you have to spend time tweaking the velocity curve, and that is not a simple task at all.
@@Instrumental-Covers Stu connects best with Kawai, Bechstein and it seems Schimmel and on the digital side Casio, Roland, and Kawai. I agree that the Steinway and Yamaha VSL sound more enhanced on some of Stu's other videos.
@@benjaminsmith2287 There is the fact that Merriam Music sells Kawai, Roland, and Casio, and Bechstein, and Schimmel. There is also the fact that Merriam Music is not a Yamaha or Steinway dealer, although they have Amazon links for some Yamaha digital pianos, and if you use the links they get a commission. There is also the fact that VSL pianos do not sound this harsh in other videos available on UA-cam. Stu had a Steinway piano before... and also several Yamaha high-end keyboards that cost around $2,000-$3,000. So, he must have had a connection with Steinway and Yamaha before he worked for Merriam Music. Once again, I don't know if you are familiar with vst pianos, but if you crank up the MIDI velocity modifier about 20 points, you will get the sound of this Steinway... you can do that for any vst piano and the result will be a harsh sound because the software is only triggering the fortissimo samples.
Can you please post more vocal and piano, could be a killer channel on those content!!!
Where can I purchase the Kawai SK-EX sample library?
I believe the SK-EX samples you are hearing in this video are directly from the Kawai NV5S, so, unfortunately, these particular recordings are not available as standalone samples.
@@MerriamPianos thanks for the reply. That's too bad - the samples sound gorgeous!
It's very difficult on software. The difference is always obvious on the real ones!