How does Spell Stacking Work in D&D 5e?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- The Video is Sponsored by The Bloody Bellboots Boogie: www.kickstarte...
Thank you very much WatcherDM for sponsoring this video!
Rest casting video: • Rest casting in Dnd 5e
Link to patreon, merch shop, discord and twitter:
www.patreon.co....
/ discord
/ pack_tacticss
my-store-c2bae...
Gator art by Drakeven: / drakeven1
Kobold reading a scroll art by Novatonix:
www.youtube.co....
The Video is Sponsored by The Bloody Bellboots Boogie: www.kickstarter.com/projects/watcherdm/the-bloody-bellboots-boogie?ref=95dhgy
Thank you very much WatcherDM for sponsoring this video!
Aid is a awesome spell too, raise your max hp and that's meant to be the most potent effect but everyone also gets the hit points, it's a poor man's mass healing word
The Kickstarter says nothing about worlds without number like was said in the video 🤔
@@Marpfie World without number is an OSR. That project works with OSR games.
For my Fighter/Wizard. I remember doing this with Banish back to back, or to end Banish (concentration) to cast Major Illusion or Silent Image + Minor Illusion in preparation for my next Banish. Over the course of multiple turns.
It's a waste of Spell Slots but it's fun.
This seems more like spell queing rather than stacking
Nah, queuing is FIFO, stacking is LIFO, it checks out
If you're ever lucky enough to play a super high level wizard, spell stacking makes Fortune's Favor an absurd Spell Mastery pick
My chronurgist is ANGLING for it hard.
Lmao yeah that's pretty much an infinite reactionless silvery barbs.
Gotta have the money for it, but that's where a creation bard comes in clutch
gets expensive if you do it often, and the casting time is annoying
@@tommihommi1if a couple thousand gold is a problem for your level 18+ wizard I think you’ve done something wrong.
Time to listen closely so I can use it in ten years when I play a caster of high enough level
Well. This might change in the new player handbook. We don't know.
Wow the last thing is such a goofy interaction, I love it. I have seen that cantrip used with quickened spell before but only to effect multiple enemies, not to doubly annoy a single one.
Great video!
"Let's say Gator slips and falls off Castle Ravenloft."
"Wait. What!? AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!"
*Thud*
*ad break*
To coincide with the leg break!
This is fascinating. Combined with Rest Casting you can almost feel like a real caster as a warlock! 😆
Damn, you found a use for undying warlock. Undying warlocks get to pick death ward.
@@kungknas6108Undead warlock, also with death ward: “anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you”
@@thatguythere6161 "Yes you can." -undying warlock
@@thatguythere6161and wouldn’t there use of death ward be better? Since they can effectively just stack short rests for a dozen no death spells?
@@blue-eyeswhitekirbo2543 They’re both warlocks, and both have death ward. So they could both repeatedly short rest for a maximum of 28 death wards at 17th level.
Gator's falling scream gave me a good laugh
I remember me and party kept using glyph of warding and a bag of holding to super boost the barbarian with multiple enlarges and he had an epic kaijus battle versus tiamat. We knew about this rule but we also thought it would be super cool
sorry to say, but multiple enlarge does not stack. It will just use the strongest version or the one with the longest duration if multiple are strongest.
@@TrixyTrixter sorry to say, but you need to read the last sentence. They knew the rule. They did it anyway. Because they also know the "rule of cool" and know the game us about having fun. And they chose fun over pendantic rules lawyering.
@stingman777 About as "rule of cool" as just homebrewing the dart of death. Its a dart that kills anything it hits. If you think its cool good for you, I see it as pointless if you knowingly ignore major parts of the game rules.
@@TrixyTrixter You do you, but allowing a one-off to have a kaiju battle sounds fun to me and doesn't break the game. It just allows a fun experience for the people in that particular group. Some groups have more fun sticking to the rules legalistically. Some have fun using them as guidelines. Some have fun sticking to them mostly but bending them here and there. It is OK for people to do what works for them.
@@TrixyTrixter we were not one shotting everything though it was still a combat it's just we had a gargantuan barbarian tried to suplex tiamat. Also we didn't just blind side the DM with this he knew and could plan accordingly
A really comprehensive explanation! Good shout on the ray of frost, and I appreciate the mention of how it's more controversial and understandably not allowed at some tables. It's really neat to see how the wording of some spells is really particular when you understand rules like this, like how Contingency specifically has a clause that ends the spell if you cast it again!
Thank you very much!
For lategame Feeblemind comes to mind. Even if the lich breaks away from one, your party’s necromancer can still keep him as a pokemon. Better to be careful than sorry.
A very good spell stacking option is Polymorph.
By my reading of the RAW, if the second form ends, spillover damage is done to the regular HP, and then the creature is immediately transformed back into the first form.
Though it is concentration. You can get up to *far* worse with 2 casters able to cast 4th level spells. Buff up the polymorphed creature so it kills everything before being reduced to 0!
@@CopiHuman I suppose a good use of spell-stacking Polymorph is to counter another caster's Polymorph.
Particularly nasty because beasts don't tend to have as high Wis saves as other creature types, even if they are decent at it.
@@draghettis6524 That is fair, assuming you don't have dispel magic or something of the sort. Breaking the enemy caster's concentration with damage could work too, but polymorphing the polymorphed creature is pretty neat thematically. Spell stacking true polymorph on the other hand could be genuinely useful, as it can be made to be until dispelled. If you keep stacking it on a true polymorphed creature, you can achieve a similar effect without concentration conflicts, theoretically I believe.
@@CopiHuman The issue with dispelling a Polymorph is that the creature returns to their normal form
But if you stack another one on top, then you can turn them into something that can't participate in the fight.
@@draghettis6524 Ah I thought you meant if an enemy caster polymorphs an ally! Fair enough.
I can't imagine a situation where Ray of Frost doesn't stack. If multiple casters are pummeling a single enemy with Rays of Frost, it makes perfect sense that the ice effect would build up until the creature is frozen in place. It works by RAW and it works thematically with the spell's fiction.
A 20' speed reduction on a crit also makes sense.
Me and the boys getting ready to give the BBEG negative speed when he came to make his threats to the village and would have escaped back to his lair.
Now he has to move 30ft towards himself... Charisma save to avoid being zero summed by anomalous movement.
I can't believe you didn't mention Polymorph. It's, in my opinion, the best use of spell stacking. I cast Polymorph on the barbarian, making him a TRex. The bard also polymorphs him into a TRex.
The badguys whittle down the bard's TRex to 0hp and... *poof* new TRex!
Even if they whittle that down again, they're then dealing with a raging barbarian!
you have opened my eyes to Death ward spell stacking
Coming from a Yu-Gi-Oh player background, I'd personally say the "and" from Ray of Frost as indication that the slow effect happens simultaneously with the damage therefore wouldn't be a separate effect but a second effect for the 1 name.
Let's say the text is replaced with "when [insert condition] its speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn" then it'll be a different effect altogether.
But at the end of the day to each their own
Agreed, I don't think "it doesn't have a proper name" is an adequate excuse here.
@derektom14 finally, a like-minded individual
By that ruling you're technically saying they couldn't be damaged by ray of frost 2 times in a turn??? I partially agree that there's an argument for it not stacking, but the way this is worded doesn't sound like the right argument, but maybe I'm reading into this to much, idk
@treyalexander9934 wait...keep cooking. I'm interested to know more
This video is missing a "No Gators were actually harmed during the making of this video"
And what can you conclude from the fact that this statement is missing?
As if poor Gator wasn't already suffering from PTSD...
Good thing I make all my encounters force my spellcasters to use all their spell slots and they never have more to overlap for the next day
something to add is two spells with the same effect and different name DO stack.
so applying the -1d4 reduction from mind sliver with the effect of bane to make the enemy roll 2d4 and subtract it from their save, (have to cast bane first) or the alchemist artificer's potion of boldness and bless and guidance to add 3d4 to a roll.
I'm glad Gator is so agreeable. Really enhanced the lesson
Very interesting. Thanks for doing the work on this
This is most definitely fascinating and a useful piece of information
... will my DM allow it, probably not
Guess ill closet the info right next to rest casting
That's what I was thinking. I can imagine a lot of groups being turned off by the "cheese" factor 😂 Not that I'd really care though, personally.
I understand ruling against Ray of Frost stacking, assuming the effect is called "Ray of Frost speed reduction" or something similar.
It'll be interesting to see how spell stacking is incorporated into VTTs, as it actually seems super easy to pull off.
I myself, considering the Rayof Frost stacking means multiple players targeting the same enemy to reduce its movement for 1 turn that's completely reasonable imo. It's like multiple players trying to hold down a hulk or smth lol
Counterpoint: it's not a specific effect, the target is just really fricken cold, and being cold can absolutely stack.
@@kjj26k 4 wizards teaming up to freeze a guy on the spot with cold rays is actually quite cool.
Personally I'd 100% allow it, though I do understand why a DM would have problems with a team of 1st level casters locking a bbeg in place with cantrip spam.
@@lukenator115
Tbh, if a BBEG has no ranged abilities or skills or weapons, that's just poor planning.
Besides. It doesn't say it limits it to 0. Which means it can technically give negative speed.
Combine this negative speed with a conquest paladin Aura and they can never run away.
@@phasepanther4423 It's a level 1 boss. It's fine if the players figure out a way to "cheese" the fight at that level. If going by XP-leveling, they are likely only going to be level 1 the first proper adventuring day anyway.
3 players coordinating to that level will set the tone of the campaign, I am certain it will be a lot of fun. Just make sure to not have any more encounters (unless intentional) that is completely solved by cantrips the same way again.
I enjoy all of Pack Tactics videos
I have a level 10 reborn undead warlock who abuses this, when the rest of the party takes a long rest she takes a 4 hour long rest and casts 2 castings of death ward, then she takes 4 hour long short rests and each time she casts 2 death wards. For the first hour of the adventure she has 12 lives
That is amazing undead flavor though. Can't kill a corpse.
If balance is a woe of yours, setting permitting, being a walking cadaver would have severe social consequences among the living.
Thereby, the warlock may be strong in combat, but has a hard time in crowded and social situations.
That further expands on the RP aspect of playing an undead too. Even get some drama up in here.
how do you even take a 4 hour long rest? even elves need to take the full 8 hours, they just trance for 4 of them instead of sleep for 6.
@@ObeliskDemon reborn can finish a long rest in 4 hours if they spend it in a totally inactive state
@@ObeliskDemonelves only need the 4 hours for a long rest, the rest of the time is downtime for them
Im really not sure if i agree about the "Multicasting Death Ward means only the oldest applies." It specifically states you only gain the benefits of the most potent, but doesn't state that the other casts are just "in stasis" so, when the trigger happens (falling to 0 hp), it would trigger all of them, but you'd only receive the benefit of 1 of the casts.
how would it be triggered if it didnt apply??
@@pandanielxd They're all running in parallel, no different than bless, the difference is whether a trigger phrase of "When the target is first reduced to 0 hit points" triggers only the oldest version or all versions simultaneously and the most potent version is applied. In the case of Bless, it comes down to whether the reading is "the most potent version applies when you cast a new version" or "when you perform an action that triggers Bless, all Bless are triggered but you only receive the benefits of the most potent"
Ultimately, this feels like a situation where a DM would have to decide based on their interpretation and impact to the table. If a player is trying to exploit rest casting to get 10+ lives then that is something they need to discuss with the DM. However, if the DM and table are ok with the reading, then more power to everyone and the table has to be ok with the enemy exploiting the same rules.
Ultimately, it seems gimmicky and unfun for everyone in my opinion, and mostly exploits ambiguity to make death less impactful (especially considering how easy it is to avoid as is), but to each their own.
I agree, I don't see how you could have death ward trigger without all of them triggering. To trigger death ward you must have a situation where you would be knocked to 0. And if that happens, they will all trigger. Edit: I see the argument against this is "because the effects can't combine, only one triggers." But they aren't combining. They are just happening one after the other. If they were combining, the effect would change. If 2 bless casts combined, more dice are rolled and the result is higher. Your hp being changed to one can't be combined with it being changed to one to make it be changed to one harder.
@@AlexM-is6ru 100%, I can see the argument on both sides which is why I think this is something you have to discuss with your GM. I think the biggest thing that sketches me out with the way the spell is written is that it specifically states "The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage" which would imply that it's tracking it even if this specific instance of Death Ward isn't what brings you back to higher than 0hp. If they stacked in that way, it wouldn't make sense to add the "first time" qualifier.
There is a 2nd flaw. Death Ward says "the first time", even if you argue the other buffs stay, the other buffs no longer have a trigger
Divine sorcerer here, at the end of the day :extended spell /twin death ward so you and a party member can live again
He was right, I commented from Ray of Frost. As a DM I would not allow multiple Ray of Frosts to affect the same target, buuuut a sorcerer using extended spell to make Death Ward 16 hours, then long resting.... would be viable in my games, its neat and never thought of it like that
This is getting used in a battle Royale I’m doing tommorow
This stacking is cool. I like my players feeling powerful and making impactful plays. I don't think any of this would be an issue.
Death Wards will eventually run out, doesn't fully heal, and is using up spell slots.
If you reduce someone's speed to 0 with stacking, they still have ranged attacks. If they can teleport, then they can still basically move.
Poor Gator, he's really going through it this episode.
the ray of frost thing makes a lot of sense to apply cause the reduction of speed is because part of the target freezes so it moves slower and obv. if you shoot more ice at it it freezes more and as such can also move slower. I would even go as far as to alow the effect to increase the duration of the Debuff if something that was already hit enough times by ray of frost to have its speed reduced to 0 to the next turn. For example if smth has a speed of 30ft and gets hit 4 times by ray of frost its speed would be reduced to 0 until the start of your next turn and an aditional -10 feet until the start of your turn that follows that. But that would be Homebrewing on my part and also you would need to cast ray of frost 4 times for that.
I really like this ruling, but I would make sure that the players have to keep track of it, otherwise it just makes a lot of work for the dm.
I would rule that the duration still ticks down for stacked spells. So you can still stack death ward, but they would all still expire after a long rest.
I agree with this. I believe the way "Combining Magical Effects" is interpreted by PT is specifically misrepresenting what the book says. Just because the effect isn't applying currently doesn't mean it's duration goes into stasis and pause.
@@spencerstanley4759 no one said the contrary
He did specify that the duration is still ticking. This is assuming that it is all triggered within the duration of the first casting.
I think what Kobold is suggesting is that the spellcaster rests for 7.9 hours, uses the remaining spell slots to cast Death Ward. The caster resumes resting for another few minutes and all their spell slots are back. RAW this works because as long as an interruption doesn't delay the rest more than an hour, the rest may be resumed from the amount of time they previously rested.
@@spencerstanley4759 He never said that.
Poor Gator!
♿🐊
Couldn't you stack booming blades then, for the sake of causing damage twice if the target moves 10 ft.
Example: You attack with booming blade then quicken spell booming blade to apply it twice to the target. So they have 2 booming blades for 1 round.
The target moves 5ft and takes the 1st instance of booming blade's thunder damage. The target then moves another 5ft (10 in total now) and takes the second booming blade's instance of damage.
This would all of course work similarly to Death Ward, it works because the 1st instance of the spell ends earlier than the second one. So the second then starts to apply itself to the target.
Either kobold is highly adept in teleportation, or all these videos are filmed on top of Castle Raven loft. Hope you brought a coat.
I asked Strahd if I could film at his place and he said sure.
Jumping out of the window with a Deathward while suplexing Strahd as my Rune Knight always makes me salivate...
That sounds amazing!!!
Spell time , it reminds me Skyrim Kobold :>
Upon further introspection I see a Reborn, Half-Orc, Warding Bond, Aid, Heroes Feast Buffed, Divine SoulLock Life Transference caster. Shamanistic as flavor. "My life for Ner'Zhuul"
Whoa front row seats!
So what you are saying is; they forgot to add a line to death ward that says "A creature affected by death ward is unaffected by the casting of death ward on them again." Or something to that affect.
Chwingas in your pockets spamming guidance on you for when you roll initiative is another use for spell stacking.
Poor Gator 🐊
I never even considered any of this... This changes everything!
🐊
🐊
🐊 staking
Interesting topic/tech, I knew about the rule about Combining Magical Effects, but not spell stacking (that Death Ward example is a pretty impactful one).
My interpretation of how the rule at 1:11 works would work more along the lines of something happens, then spells that trigger from that effect say hey I’m gonna do x, then it checks if 2 things are doing x and says sorry only one x allowed so both spells would trigger but only one would activate its ability. Therefore if you have 7 death wards then when you drop to 0 all of them go, aha time to activate and you lose the effect, then the game says nuh uh only one effect takes place
also death casting just doesn't work cause the rules about resting state
"If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity-at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity-the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it." So if you cast a spell during a long rest then you don't get the effects a long rest.
@@edwardjones7583 1 hour of spell casting
@@edwardjones7583did you not read tge text you just wrote. It says if you do strenuous activity for at least an HOUR. Casting death ward only takes 6 seconds. So you could spend all your spellslots casting spells and it would be less then an hour and thus your rest would not be interrupted
3.5e: Look at what they need to mimic a fraction of my power....
The most glaring example of spell stacking, and did not even get mentioned. Aid + Heroes feast , the question of whether or not the max HP boost stacks or not. Also, this combo is in BG3 and it stacks, would have been nice to remind that it also works in 5e. Besides that, rocks fall, everybody dies (except Gator) :D
I would allow Ray of Frost to stack (just like hp damage stacks), but not Fortune's Favor or Deathward.
I also would not allow Rest Casting, unless you take something like the Extend Spell Megamagic to increase the spell duration past 8 hours, so you can take a *Full* Rest between casting and adventuring.
rest casting is casting it as the long rest finishes so the duration would start as the rest gets over, which, rules as written, is perfectly allowed as there is downtime built into the long rests. Not saying your wrong, but that is what the regular rules say
@@trexterminater3 yes, I understand... Just that I don't like allowing exploits at my table 😜
In my games, if a spell is cast after the Start of a Long Rest, it isn't regained at the end of it.
*Party starts stacking Death Ward on that cute little guy they brought with them
He's right y'know. Look at Shadow's Strength Drain. It stacks with itself. Unless the target has a STR score of 1-4, it's unlikely to alternatively kill anything else by dropping the STR score to 0 if it did not stack with itself.
Strength drain doesn’t stack with itself as the 1d4 Str damage is separate from the ending condition.
The attack is instant.
The effect applies only to the ending condition.
The reason why all stacks are removed at the same time is because of the effect (end of short or long rest) lingers until all stacks are removed.
Eg:
You have 3 stacks and you end your rest.
The first stack triggers and is removed.
The next stack is active
You still ended your rest
The second stack is removed and so on.
the Shadow's Strength Drain is completely different, though? that's a monster statblock ability, not a spell
@@BlueTheSquidhere we go with the “things the apply to monsters don’t apply to players”. Nobody bring up oversized weapons.
@@BlueTheSquid 8:41
Aura of protection isn’t a spell but a feature and still they don’t stack (you take the strongest buff).
Player characters are creatures.
Shadows are creatures.
Strength drain is a feature.
The same rules apply.
@@aetherwolf9288oh no you're damaged can't stack with each other you only take the highest source of damage
The most obvious thing that would aid in how to rule stacking spells is how Temporary HP works.
If a spell grants temp hp, for the sake of simplicity the higher amount replaces the lower amount. In other words when that higher amount is depleted the lower amount doesn’t reactivate.
This replacement behavior is the same as if all temp hp was active at the same time and any damage you take was subtracted from every source of temp hp you have until no temp hp remains. Meaning death ward stacking should be defunct.
For fortune’s favor the core rules needed a caveat that identical spells that can be ended early for a benefit are all ended at once with only one the player chooses taking effect. (That is if you don’t like spell stacking.)
Seeing this death ward tech makes me want to make a divine soul sorcerer who can extend spell (double duration) death ward (base duration 8 hours) for 16 hours of near invincibility
On the subject of Ray of frost, I think it’s balanced. The casting time is 1 action so either one character is burning a resource to fire it twice in one turn, or multiple characters are spending their turns using ray of frost instead of other spells. Considering many, if not most, encounters consist of multiple weaker creatures, the whole party using their turns to lock one creature down while the others close in is suboptimal.
This does give me the idea though, of using Ray of frost in the solution to a puzzle, the players are given a scroll/wand/item of Ray of frost and a powerful construct is closing in moving 20 feet a round while they’re trying to get through a locked door or collapsed rubble. Clever use of the item or having a party member who knows the spell would allow them to hold the construct back (while the item has charges left) giving them much more time to remove the obstruction
here is the fun one, having a sorcerer extend cast on some of these or get a few of the mind crystals to extend the castings from someone else. they are uncommon and consumable so around 100 GP if you can get them or if you are higher tier play an Artificer could make them easy enough.
Is invisibility cast with a 5th level slot a "more potent" effect on a target than invisibility cast with a 2nd level slot? Or are they equally potent effects?
I think they are technically the same, as only the duration changes not the potency, as far as I'm aware
Yes. No.
Would be crazy to fight a BBEG with 100 death wards stacked on it. Has his own cult of clerics which all just continually buff him up with stacking spells to appear as an immortal god to all others.
And then the wizard casts Dispel Magic at 4th-level.
Fortune's Favor cast at 5th level+ Divination Wizard's Expert Divination (6th level feature) has the potential of giving you free cascading spell slots as the lower slots will recover until you reach the 2nd level casting (make sure you have spent at least one of each slot to not make the slot unable to recover).
A divine soul sorcerer is INSANE for restcasting stacked deathwards.
The speed reduction of Ray of Frost is part of the spell effect of Ray of Frost. Even though the spell itself has an instant duration, the speed reduction retains its proper name. It should not stack. The Fathomless Warlock subclass can allow for Sorlocks to pull off something similar though, but at that point use EB instead.
This is one of those loopholes the average dm would shut down
I don't think all of it but it's in the rules. I hope you found this interesting though.
I think any dm who is trying to make the game fun for the players, which is what they are supposed to do, would allow it if the general consensus of the players think it would be fine, but overall it is just a question of the fun factor.
One spell stacking trick I did was to do multiple castings of Armor of Agathys on my Sorlock at different spell levels. Every time I got hit, they'd take the equivalent amount of dmg (Transmuted with DM permission with my Transmute Spell metamagic) until I ran out of Temp hp, at which point the next highest casting would take effect, repeating the process
I invoke the ameranthine 10x
I love spell stacking. It makes me feel like I'm playing WoW again. 😂
🐊You mean 4e?🐊
@@PackTactics 🤣 Funny enough I never played 4e.
Yes, the ray of frost thingy made me comment XD
At my table, I would rule that 'speed reduction' is the proper name for that effect. Either that or that its name is 'Ray Of Frost Reduction'
Either way, you aren't spamming rays of frost at my dragon until it literally cannot fly anymore and falls out of the sky
I think that if a party can cast that many ray of frosts, you have a bigger issue...
But kobold, how does overlapping spirit guardians work? There is a Divine Soul Sorcerer in the party, and a cleric. If we both have SG active, will a creature take damage from both at the start of their turn? I think it's clear they will not suffer from halved movement speed twice since that's an effect (with a duration?)...but is damage an effect? Will they take damage from both our spirit guardians?
Additionally, does that change if one is a radiant damaging SG, and the other is a necrotic damaging SG?
you earned my sub!
I would say damage is an effect, but it doesn't have a duration so it would still stack , however since the speed reduction does have a duration it would
Interesting
Death ward twice would really be helpful for a character
Put that sh!t on the Bait of the plan! 😅
So a thing I probably wouldn't allow at a table if I was running but I think technically works is to spell stack armor of agythis if they are all cast at the same level then if you hit me the first hp should come from AoA1 the second hit point from AoA2 the third hit point from AoA3 etc etc until you run out of AoA spells at which point the next hit point should come from AoA1. Theoretically this should mean that each instance of AoA should apply damage to the attacker once. As I said I think most DM's would smack this interpretation down, though I might allow you to combine all of the bonus hit points, just not get more than one instance of AoA damage per turn.
RAW this doesnt work. You can’t have more than one source of Temp HP. If you have temp hp and gain more, you choose which temp hp to keep. You can stack multiple Armor of Agathys, but they wouldn’t do anything because of the “while you have these [temporary] hit points” clause. You only have the temp hp from one armor of agathys, so the remaining ones do nothing.
I get interpreting a 2nd lvl bless as more potent, but the bonus is a d4 no matter what. So if the bonus of 1d4 is the same wouldn't the most recent spell effect be counted?
Well, if the effect/bonus is the same anyway, then it doesn't matter which spell caused it, does it?
@@derDrache1988functionally yes. But I was trying to make sure I read the rule right. It doesn't define "potent" as spell levels but does reference bonuses as an example.
You're right though, it would not make a difference either way.
i like how Gator helps to demonstrate :)
Divine soul sorc with extend spell makes death wards potentially last 16 hours?
Also I'm not sold, the wording for combining spells says
"The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect--such as the highest bonus--from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap."
The spell Death ward by it's nature IS in effect while it's waiting. Part of the effect of the spell, IS the spell waiting to go off.
"If the spell is in effect while the target is subjected to an effect that would kill it..." directly supports that read.
The whole duration of the spell is is part of the spell effect not just the moment where it applies to damage or instant death.
The spell combining rules would state that the most recent effect would apply given two different death ward spells are of equal potency.
That would mean that if you get death ward cast on you, and then 2 min later you get a second death ward cast on you, the first one must end.
The spell waiting to go off is part of the spell effect, meaning the first one cannot wait to go off when a second one is cast upon you.
If the first one cannot wait to go off, it must go off instantly and end the spell the second you cast the second death ward.
Casting a 2nd death ward on a creature who is already affected by death ward, would instantly make the first ward go off and end the duration of the first ward.
So can u cast false life at 5th, than at 4th, and 3rd and so on ? Dont stack, but tecnically stacks once the powerfull spell ends, the others take effect.
How would Polymorph apply? Different forms are clearly different potency, but it's had to say which one is "more potent." The T-Rex is higher CR than the Giant Ape, but the Giant Ape has more HP, and the goldfish is clearly the most potent debuff of the three. Would you pick and choose elements from each form to keep (such as the highest HP and the highest AC) or do you keep the most potent form, whichever you decide that is?
Throughly enjoyed this video
Wait can you stack mirror images
Oh my word… this is gonna get hilarious with a homebrew of DW my current DM uses… he made all spells upcastable, and DW gains an extra save and an extra dice of health set to per slot… oh im gonna love this
Honestly, a clever team that figures out the slow effect can stack sounds cool. Like, "Everyone take out your rods, and target the minotaur!" It gets frozen to the floor, unable to move, but slowly thaws over the next round.
I have never heard this interpretation of overlap. My understanding was their durations are ticking down at the same time rather than pause one until the more potent version has concluded. I did some digging and found no clarification. Might have to try sending Crawford a tweet to see what he says. Maybe linking the video.
The durations of two spells do keep running, but only the most powerful is applied, until the durations are no longer overlapping. Which is why long rest casting is used for this to save on spell slots. But it applies even without long rest casting.
I just came up with a group of spellcasters serving the bbeg that are gonna abuse this to the MAX
How would the stacking work with the spell Aid ?
Aid is tough, because you hit point maximum is still increased even when the extra hit points run out, so the second casting doesn't ever take over. I guess if it was dispelled somehow the second aid would apply, but I don't think that would be worth it. Temporary hit point spells like Armor of Agathys, on the other hand, usually end when the temporary hit points are gone. Therefore, stacking Armor of Agathys like this would give you multiple sets of temp HP. When the first one runs out, the next one appears.
Based on the rules it’s quite simple, whichever casting of Aid grants the most HP takes priority.
@@alexpratt8533First of all armor of agathys stacking doesn't work, since you have to choose which 1s you want and when you pick 1 the others THP is gone and the damage effect is tied to those specific THP per the spell. Kobold has explained this in a different comment.
Overlapping aids can only really be a benefit in terms of duration of 1 almost ending and the other taking over.
The only benefit I could see is if you had cast Aid and know it's going to run out while you're in the middle of a dangerous situation. So you cast Aid again, at a similar or lower level. When the duration of the first Aid ends, it will drop to the second, equal or weaker Aid which will continue until its duration ends.
ok, I guess I need to start prepping magic missile to counter the 10 stacked death wards.
You could just hit them regularly post death ward no reason to waste a slot to take away one ward at a time (remember magic missile is instantaneous each missile hits at the same time so it's only gonna disable 1 death ward per cast)
@@lucasramey6427 The whole point of Magic Missile is that even though it's instantaneous, each missile is it's own instance of damage, meaning:
- If you're concentrating, you have to make as many concentration checks as there are missiles.
- If you've got Death ward up, they each take down one of the wards.
- If you're making death saves, .... well I'm sorry for you.
@@Archy_The-Wizard thats not the same thing though. There is a difference between saving through and the end conditions for a spell. Because in dnd their is this concept called time. And since every single missle hits at the exact same time they would all hit the same death ward at the same time so it would still only end the effect of one. Then right after that instince the next ward would go into effect. If the magic missles were staggered then this would work but the fact that they hit at the same time would mean that you are only ending one death ward with it
@@namethefifth7315 The missiles each deal their own instance of damage.
If we said that there needs to be time to pass for Death Ward to end (which isn't the case thankfully) it would make the situation worst, as the first missile would get countered by death ward, but then then next three would cause 3 failed death saves and kill the creature.
@@Archy_The-Wizard and their own instance of damage happen at the same time. What do you not get about that? The new death ward wpuld only come into effect after the first one would end. And by the time the first one is ended all the missles have already hit their target and delt damage
Something I was wondering with death ward, if you die in a bad place how would that work?
Like if gator fell off of Ravenguard and landed on a pike, using the death ward to survive the piercing
And what if someone was just ballsy enough to go nuts with it, like using death ward to swim through lava
I would say the effects name is Ray of Frost.
For those who are considering ruling against the speed reduction stacking, first please consider this....
Why is the speed reduced? The lame answer is that the spell says it does. But I'm going to ask you to put your Critical Thinking Cap on. One way to think about this is that the coldness is pervasive into your skin making it impossible to move at full speed. The more coldness that gets applied, the harder it is to move.
With this, of you still decide that the goodness is a magical residue that shouldn't stack, then by all means make that decision. But I think it's cooler to let it stack, personally.
Ray of Frost's speed reduction does have a proper name, though. It's "Ray of Frost". I think the problem is that the word "duration" isn't properly defined, either in the rules or in the spell description. The effect's duration is one round, but the spell's duration is instantaneous. I don't know, though
In the case of Lance of Lethargy, unlike Ray of Frost, it explicitly states 'once of each turn,' so it might be a more natural interpretation that Ray of Frost can stack. The interesting thing is, in the case of Ray of Frost, Mike Mearls said that Ray of Frost stacks, while Jeremy Crawford said that it doesn't. And in my opinion, I consider both perspectives valid, so as always, the best solution would be to communicate with the player.
Whether hitting a target with 3 or 4 Ray of Frost spells to reduce their movement to 0 might not be worthwhile in most of the situations comparing what other actions the player party can take. But it has the potential to ruin a boss encounter you've carefully crafted. I'm not certain it would be problematic for DM's plans, but what's certain is that if it stacks, melee martial characters would likely suffer the most disadvantage.
The thing with Mike and Jeremy in those tweets is both of them are answering different questions. The problem with Mike is that he doesn't say that the spell is instantaneous and if he did then people would get it. As for Crawford, he is answering a completely different question but because it was related to ray of frost, everyone thinks his tweet has to do with ray of frost. Both the designers are correct but they were awful at telling why they said what they said.
It really bugs me when they do stuff like that.
Nooooo Kobold you don't get it! All these spellcasting strategies are (sound) overpowered and RUIN the game! (never actually checked with the dm or the other players before attempting) Meanwhile the martials destroy every encounter (because there's only one enemy per day and they have a combat intelligence rivaling that of a slug) which means that all your advise is BAD and Wrong!
I suppose the speed reduction could stack, but since the duration is quite short, you'd have to get some allies to cast this spell too (about 3-4 hits per round to halt most humanoids) and then keep casting it each round for the reduction to stay on. I feel like that's an inefficient battle plan.
how about you use your remaining spell slots in a descending order? that way not only you stack spell but you guarantee that your most recent spells will go last since "the more potent spell will be counted first"
The durations overlap in the sense that YOUR bless still goes on in the background, you would lose bless from yourself
Everything in a spell has the spell discerption has the proper name of the spell. Even if it has a different duration from what's listed on the top of the page
one thing I didn't see you touch on (possibly because you didn't feel it relevant?) is that, for the bless example, if Gator casts Guidance on you, and you cast bless on yourself, you get both dice, if I am not mistaken
Poor Gator.
How… how did i forget about fortune’s favor…
What about Guidance or Resistance stacking?
That works
When he started talking about Bless, I thought for sure he was about to suggest that you could roll multiple D4s and take the highest, and I was ready to really lose my shit 😅
I think I would lose my audience if I did that. lol
I was thinking the same thing! 😁
🦎:"This d4 came up a 2, but this second d4 came up 4! The 4 is more potent so we get to use that one!"
🐊:"Kobold, I have a bad feeling about this."
Poor gator
Oh no. Poor Gator. 😟
Increasing the spell level for spell does not increase the effects potency on an individual, therefore it only ever applies the most recent casting, meaning you are just ending Gator's bless effect on yourself early to instead cast it yourself