Please make more informational videos like this! As a young organ builder myself, I found it very helpful :) you did a great job explaining the process
An interesting and useful video - thanks! Where I work (in the UK) I could show the same effect (on site) by picking the pipe up with one hand and putting it back at once - no need to warm the hand. Presumably, this is because the room, and therefore the pipe, would be colder to begin with? The message is still the same: the pipe is in tune, only at the temperature at which you tune it - hence the need to have the church at service temperature for the tuning. For this reason, in the winter, we try to tune on Sundays, when the building has been heated, anyway,
Next time, also come back to the pipes a little while later to show how wonky things get when you've tuned pipes that were not at the appropriate temperature. That's the demonstration your clients really need to see.
Great video, but it doesn't really explain the problems a tuner might have on site - needing to handle a pipe, replace it and tune it. Many might just knock it back into tune, but by the time you have finished the rest of the rank, the pipe you handled and retuned will then be 'out of tune', as it has 'cooled down'. You perhaps should have gone back to the two pipes you demonstrated within 5 minutes and checked the tuning again?
Very interesting and informative . Would be useful to know how temperature changes especially in buildings can effect / damage an organ especially in these times of heating issues for churches and large venues
That and humidity will mostly affect wood chests, leather, and wood pipes, too little humidity causes wood to shrink and crack, and stopped wood pipes will want to crack at the top where the stopper is as well as the rear bottom of the back board on larger pipes especially. The worst damage would be caused by roof or water pipe leaks onto the organ
One effect it has on the organ, along with humidity, is mold... When the organ does not have proper airflow and the church does not heat on a regular schedule, it's not uncommon for spores to appear inside. An organ builders nightmare! 😖
Hello, can you give me an advice on how to tune some pipes and make a few silent ones to sound? Here is a one organ nobody care about and i didnt do it before myself but want to fix it
Very interesting but aren't there are few more factors at play? For instance, the length of the pipe will change with temperature - not sure how much that helps to compensate for the change in air density. Also, depending on where the blower gets its air supply, that could easily be at a very different temperature to the organ itself. And finally, how does temperature affect all pipes? I know purists will expect A=440 but if everything slips a few cents it's not usually a massive problem.
Yes, there is an opposing effect caused by a slight change in the length of the pipe. This however is tiny compared to the pitch change caused by the temperature effect on the air inside the pipe.
The problem is caused as the smaller pipes in a rank are affected more greatly than the larger, which no matter of A440 then has the octaves of one rank out of tune with themselves. Stratification.
Nice video, but I wish you would have played the individual pipes with the tuning rank prior to warming or cooling them to demonstrate they were in tune from the start.
The tone does not change because of the temperature of the air in the pipe (as the man says), but because of the expansion or contraction of the organ metal by heat or cold. Actually it is not correctly explained in this video.
The density and speed of the molicules of air in the pipe, not the expansion or contraction of the of the metal, affects the pitch in a controlled situation as shown. If Luke had wanted to prove this (unnecessary) point, he could have introduced hot air and cold air (say 2 degrees C and 75 degrees), at the toe of the pipe. The change in pitch would have then been so extreme as to have been perhaps two semitones out of tune from a reference pitch. In order to achieve that much change with the expansion or contraction of the pipe, the length would need to increase/decrease by an observable/measurable amount (which is not the case). While there must be some change in the pipe wall (metal or wood), that change does not account for the pitch change in an appreciable way. Air density is the correct evaluation of pitch change, not wall expansion/contraction.
Further, and more to the point, cooling the pipe would cause it to become smaller and shorter, thus raising the pitch. Heating the pipe would cause expansion of the wall, making it longer, thus lowering the pitch. This is exactly the opposite of what happens with room temperature and air temperature inside a pipe. A neat demonstration of this is to take a tuning fork, a pipe of the same pitch and reference (electronic tuner, another pipe or another tuning fork). As the fork and pipe are warmed or cooled, they move in the opposite directions from the reference. (I want to acknowledge Sue Haslam at Peterson Electro-Musical products for providing a very observable pitch change with tuning forks against an unchanging reference as the forks are warmed and/or cooled, even slightly. Your tuning fork is not a reliable source for pitch unless it is "at temperature".)
I have a favor to ask. I have one scene in my feature screenplay where an organ tuner is working with his 15 yr old son who is an organist and he is helping his dad on the keys, while his dad is tuning the pipes. The father is yelling out to him commands of what to play. The son who is potentially schizophrenic, is actually hearing his dad yell at him in an abuse manor, like he did when the boy was younger. It's a story of an abusive father and son relationship, and theme's on forgiveness. I don't understand the lingo you use to tune organs, nor can I read music to understand. I need someone to look at my script and see if they can interject what a real organ tuner would actually say. It is a 3 page scene, if I remember correctly, and I would only need someone to scratch out the lines that I wrote, and write directly next to the old lines, if this makes sense ! Lol.
Please make more informational videos like this! As a young organ builder myself, I found it very helpful :) you did a great job explaining the process
Thank you and kind regards from Brazil. This video is for public utility
An interesting and useful video - thanks!
Where I work (in the UK) I could show the same effect (on site) by picking the pipe up with one hand and putting it back at once - no need to warm the hand. Presumably, this is because the room, and therefore the pipe, would be colder to begin with?
The message is still the same: the pipe is in tune, only at the temperature at which you tune it - hence the need to have the church at service temperature for the tuning. For this reason, in the winter, we try to tune on Sundays, when the building has been heated, anyway,
Next time, also come back to the pipes a little while later to show how wonky things get when you've tuned pipes that were not at the appropriate temperature. That's the demonstration your clients really need to see.
Agreed!
Great video, but it doesn't really explain the problems a tuner might have on site - needing to handle a pipe, replace it and tune it. Many might just knock it back into tune, but by the time you have finished the rest of the rank, the pipe you handled and retuned will then be 'out of tune', as it has 'cooled down'. You perhaps should have gone back to the two pipes you demonstrated within 5 minutes and checked the tuning again?
Very interesting and informative . Would be useful to know how temperature changes especially in buildings can effect / damage an organ especially in these times of heating issues for churches and large venues
That and humidity will mostly affect wood chests, leather, and wood pipes, too little humidity causes wood to shrink and crack, and stopped wood pipes will want to crack at the top where the stopper is as well as the rear bottom of the back board on larger pipes especially. The worst damage would be caused by roof or water pipe leaks onto the organ
One effect it has on the organ, along with humidity, is mold... When the organ does not have proper airflow and the church does not heat on a regular schedule, it's not uncommon for spores to appear inside. An organ builders nightmare! 😖
Very nice video.
Hello, can you give me an advice on how to tune some pipes and make a few silent ones to sound? Here is a one organ nobody care about and i didnt do it before myself but want to fix it
Thank you for this video.
I still need a new Shantz coffee cup, mine broke.
A very good video, thank you!
Very interesting but aren't there are few more factors at play? For instance, the length of the pipe will change with temperature - not sure how much that helps to compensate for the change in air density. Also, depending on where the blower gets its air supply, that could easily be at a very different temperature to the organ itself. And finally, how does temperature affect all pipes? I know purists will expect A=440 but if everything slips a few cents it's not usually a massive problem.
Yes, there is an opposing effect caused by a slight change in the length of the pipe. This however is tiny compared to the pitch change caused by the temperature effect on the air inside the pipe.
The problem is caused as the smaller pipes in a rank are affected more greatly than the larger, which no matter of A440 then has the octaves of one rank out of tune with themselves. Stratification.
Nice video, but I wish you would have played the individual pipes with the tuning rank prior to warming or cooling them to demonstrate they were in tune from the start.
He said they were in tune, we need to take his word for it.
The tone does not change because of the temperature of the air in the pipe (as the man says), but because of the expansion or contraction of the organ metal by heat or cold.
Actually it is not correctly explained in this video.
The density and speed of the molicules of air in the pipe, not the expansion or contraction of the of the metal, affects the pitch in a controlled situation as shown. If Luke had wanted to prove this (unnecessary) point, he could have introduced hot air and cold air (say 2 degrees C and 75 degrees), at the toe of the pipe. The change in pitch would have then been so extreme as to have been perhaps two semitones out of tune from a reference pitch. In order to achieve that much change with the expansion or contraction of the pipe, the length would need to increase/decrease by an observable/measurable amount (which is not the case). While there must be some change in the pipe wall (metal or wood), that change does not account for the pitch change in an appreciable way. Air density is the correct evaluation of pitch change, not wall expansion/contraction.
Further, and more to the point, cooling the pipe would cause it to become smaller and shorter, thus raising the pitch. Heating the pipe would cause expansion of the wall, making it longer, thus lowering the pitch. This is exactly the opposite of what happens with room temperature and air temperature inside a pipe. A neat demonstration of this is to take a tuning fork, a pipe of the same pitch and reference (electronic tuner, another pipe or another tuning fork). As the fork and pipe are warmed or cooled, they move in the opposite directions from the reference. (I want to acknowledge Sue Haslam at Peterson Electro-Musical products for providing a very observable pitch change with tuning forks against an unchanging reference as the forks are warmed and/or cooled, even slightly. Your tuning fork is not a reliable source for pitch unless it is "at temperature".)
I have a favor to ask. I have one scene in my feature screenplay where an organ tuner is working with his 15 yr old son who is an organist and he is helping his dad on the keys, while his dad is tuning the pipes. The father is yelling out to him commands of what to play. The son who is potentially schizophrenic, is actually hearing his dad yell at him in an abuse manor, like he did when the boy was younger. It's a story of an abusive father and son relationship, and theme's on forgiveness.
I don't understand the lingo you use to tune organs, nor can I read music to understand. I need someone to look at my script and see if they can interject what a real organ tuner would actually say. It is a 3 page scene, if I remember correctly, and I would only need someone to scratch out the lines that I wrote, and write directly next to the old lines, if this makes sense ! Lol.