Ballgroups

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  • Опубліковано 20 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 126

  • @Izanerys
    @Izanerys Рік тому +32

    Some good basic info here. If you do a part 2 there's some extra info which might be helpful for players.
    For example:
    - Proximity counting (when to expect a push & how to avoid them)
    - When groups are at their weakest (after pushes and when retreating as they go into a choke (not when they are already in/through it).
    - How to time your stuns / disruption for these 'weak' moments instead of giving away free CC immunity.
    - Oils really hurt right now too especially when combined with meatbags.
    - Additionally you might like to include server meta's for example EU it's common to use Snow Treaders on most groups (some don't) but NA its more common not to use them on DD's so roots can potentially cause more of an issue. Basically identify which group you are fighting and if they are rootable etc..
    - Why groups can stack so much hp (because of hybrid group spell/weapon dmg scaling and recovery) and the low value of 'mainstat'.
    - What changed in the meta which caused group play to become easier (for example the change from ground hots which were negatable and needed to be pre-cast vs sticky hot healing which cannot be removed) - a lot of players calling for cross healing / hot limits but its really an issue mainly with the type of heals and lack of mainstat value with the hybrid system (due largely to the amount of +spell/weapon dmg sets too).

    • @MalcolM.
      @MalcolM.  Рік тому +4

      those are some really good tips, I will pin this

    • @mylesr2156
      @mylesr2156 Рік тому +4

      I commonly see people get caught in ball groups when they see the group charging. Players begin to walk backwards or sideways, which is often just too slow. I always roll dodge through the group, toward where the group is running from, to make sure I’m far enough away from the negates/DC pulls etc.

    • @mandrake925
      @mandrake925 Рік тому

      ​@@mylesr2156yes always push through them

    • @xHawgRyderx
      @xHawgRyderx Рік тому

      Snow treaders should disable all speed spells. They give up nothing Rat, channeled acceleration etc. The very thing ZOS put in the game as a hard counter was nerfed to oblivion. Although I sometimes hate the groups they are just exploiting the game mechanics because ZOS made it possible. It’s fair game whether I like it or not. To fix it would piss the PVE crowd off to no end. AOE healing should be worthless in PVP and in group non stack healing should be decide all fights. All healing in ESO is non targeted. Id be happy if they eliminated out of group AOE heals and buffs.

    • @skygremory5247
      @skygremory5247 7 місяців тому

      Iza, your a traitor, ngl...

  • @denizforst
    @denizforst Рік тому +61

    Cant blame people for playing as group in a pvp zone but at the same time I missed old days when we could actually solo pvp. That was what made me love the game at the first place..

    • @masterdd2251
      @masterdd2251 Рік тому +1

      solo has been dead in this game for years imo

    • @wilbing8465
      @wilbing8465 Рік тому +1

      @@masterdd2251nah, you just got to get gud. Learn the 1vX. Understand the meta and play against it. Bahahaha 😂

    • @denizforst
      @denizforst Рік тому +8

      @@wilbing8465I know your joking but tell me how to counter 7 dots on you which they can reapply immedetly even if u purge them. And then image it in 3v1 fight also 3x marselok :) kiting used to make you win 3v1 but you cant kite the dots x)

  • @bovrar2nd861
    @bovrar2nd861 Рік тому +21

    The quality of your videos keep getting better and better. Impressive work, friend. This one felt like a mini documentary.

    • @MalcolM.
      @MalcolM.  Рік тому +5

      Thanks! I put more effort in them now yeah, but the result is rewarding!

    • @bovrar2nd861
      @bovrar2nd861 Рік тому

      @@MalcolM. 🤌🍷

  • @lapinlogic6267
    @lapinlogic6267 Рік тому +13

    ZOS "we want to balance PVP"
    Also ZOS "we create sets that allow a group to stack the equivalent of 15 sets per man in an optimised group, Enjoy you 3 set solo gameplay"

  • @mikeysullivan408
    @mikeysullivan408 Рік тому +13

    2018: Ball group of 5-6 sweaty competitive nerds in dmg sets working together to kill 20-100 casual players.
    2023: Ball group of 7-8 40k hp casual pvers working together to flip empty keeps and spam heals until they outnumber the enemy.

    • @MethodMan1989
      @MethodMan1989 Рік тому

      Real talk. Full fitness pros running inside a keep during 30 minutes killing 1 ppl by minute. Zerg Squad was doing far better than them in 2017 with less buffs/debuffs, and i never saw them chasing a solo guy.

  • @thenoobwalk5768
    @thenoobwalk5768 Рік тому +14

    You know what mechanic got scrapped after 1.6 which could help combat zergs as well as ball groups was dynamic ult regen in outnumbered situations. Basically if you were getting attacked by multiple attackers your ulti regen would increase dramatically, which course would give your ulti back very fast and give you a better chance of holding off multiple players despite the major disadvantage. I think this mechanic should be brought back for a nod to small scalers or us solo players. IMO small scale or solo PvP is where this game really shines and where I believe the true skill gap can be practiced. Thoughts?

    • @thereasonwhy9821
      @thereasonwhy9821 Рік тому +4

      I'm not against this idea but most ball groups do fight outnumbered, so this would likely buff them most of the time

    • @thenoobwalk5768
      @thenoobwalk5768 Рік тому +1

      @@thereasonwhy9821 alrighty, perhaps if its a flat multiplier that increases by 1 ultimate so every time another player attacks you it goes up by 1 with it starting to ramp up after 3 or more players start attacking you. I think this will be a way of leveling the playing field a bit on all scales without it being broken, perhaps they treat the mechanic like stacks and it goes down every 10 seconds or so.

    • @scrimdog3328
      @scrimdog3328 Рік тому +4

      Ahh the endless batswarm DK days......

  • @katorga
    @katorga Рік тому +7

    this is the most useful ESO video I have seen in almost a decade.

  • @gho5tspartan26yt
    @gho5tspartan26yt 2 місяці тому +1

    3:23 I thought PB was nerfed so you have to have the killing blow to proc it?

  • @vairpalefroi
    @vairpalefroi Рік тому +8

    Everyone can form a ballgroup but not every ballgroup can become a legendary ballgroup. This kind of group you won't be able to counter in a manner you described because every player in such a group has also a very high individual skill. Be a member of such a group requires a very good cooridnation, it's not just wearing some defined gear and pushing some well known skill buttons. They are able to complete high end pve content like trials hard mode as well. Luckily for randoms, the number of such top tier ballgroups are very few, like 2-3 in all the pvp servers.

  • @mipmip3855
    @mipmip3855 Рік тому +5

    Nice - finally a good balanced commentary about ball groups!!! Many thanks. And the conclusion is so true - competing with good organization & teamwork is best done through good organization & teamwork :)

  • @darbersgaming3635
    @darbersgaming3635 Рік тому +1

    nice, cant wait to get asure blight stacks on top the siege meta, nagate spam and single target hurting as hell now when i try to make a group play, thanks mate xD

  • @JackyCool-
    @JackyCool- Рік тому +2

    Interesting to see it from this pov, good video 👍

  • @t4keda510
    @t4keda510 Рік тому

  • @BlackBlazeGaming
    @BlackBlazeGaming 4 місяці тому

    Before I finish the video I do wanna posit my thoughts on this topic going in. I play solo almost exclusively in Cyrodiil and Imperial City. I tend to play Blackreach, and not Greyhost as I don't wanna wait in queue and like to swap factions to get more fights in. Ball groups annoy me when they show up, but I don't think its an invalid or unskilled playstyle. Currently, my biggest issue is dealing with them when solo. Yes, the game encourages grouping and I could take advantage of that to accomplish my goals. Even with their insane healing, the damage builds I utilize tend play a major role in ending their reign of terror when others are focused in as well. Snow Treaders is what bothers me most I think, as rooting and snaring their healers would be super nice to do, but I don't want ballgroups as a playstyle to be punished into irrelevance. Counters are often just too weak for solo players, or strong enough that the ballgroups start running them or directly countering them. Curious to see your take though.

  • @pirate135246
    @pirate135246 Рік тому +11

    Imagine if zos released a new pvp map that was more condensed and had group healing disabled

    • @ZDavidH
      @ZDavidH Рік тому +3

      Ball groups will be a thing also lol

    • @MalcolM.
      @MalcolM.  Рік тому +1

      @@ZDavidH I also think ball groups will also be a thing, but if they choose to tune down on the amount of cross healing that goes around (vigor and radiating regen stacking...), it would actually take a little effort to play well in a ballgroup.

    • @grzes848909
      @grzes848909 Рік тому +5

      ​@@MalcolM.Perhaps making the HoTs have diminishing effects, so the first hot has full effect but second and so forth heal less and less until it's close to 0

    • @pirate135246
      @pirate135246 Рік тому

      @@grzes848909 or maybe not being able to stack more than one of the same heal dot on a player, you could still stack regen + flowers, etc but it would limit mobility greatly since you wouldnt be running 6 regens per player

    • @denizforst
      @denizforst Рік тому +1

      Actually a good idea tbh

  • @akjonigan
    @akjonigan Рік тому

    I really liked this video. I myself play on xboxNA and find myself at the mercy of coordinated ball groupd. My only counter is to use my magsorc with negate. I follow them around and use my negate until they get so bored because they cant get any sucessful kills then they leave the keep.

  • @devastatoraudio
    @devastatoraudio 8 місяців тому

    What skill is used to pull all the players together before bombing?

  • @feralomen
    @feralomen Рік тому +1

    Thank you, as a casual PvPer but semi serious PvEer I have wondered how to form or run in a proper ball group

  • @TheWildQuest
    @TheWildQuest Рік тому +1

    The only time I saw unorganized players taking a ballgroup down was when they hugely outnumbered them from all sides and the ballgroup was carrying a scroll out in the open. Even then, the players died so many times before realizing lining up and chasing the group from one direction is a bad idea.

  • @mayedalshamsi
    @mayedalshamsi Рік тому +2

    One of my all-time favorite ESO moments is when the devs gutted Mechanical Acuity (which was perfect for bombing ball groups,) and introduced "ball group killing sets," like Dark Convergence, which all ball groups now use. When a game with great potential has clowns for devs... 😂

  • @ClassicIX
    @ClassicIX 11 місяців тому +3

    The problem with ball groups is that the tank meta and the cross healing makes it impossible for a small group to kill them unless they run proc sets. Once again proc sets over skill to kill the group. Cross healing and the tank meta destroys pvp

  • @glajah6380
    @glajah6380 Рік тому

    I am with a few others in the comments in that I simply miss the "good ol days" of player vs player instead of ball group vs ball group. I think your analogy of pve pug groups and organized guilds is very accurate since I seem to be one of the old school rare unicorns that loves getting world records in trials as well as being in top 10 on the PVP boards. I have been emperor many times (not this name).
    That being said, I HATE ball group meta right now. No doubt the organized groups takes skills, but I say there needs to be a strong small group counter to the 12 man ball group. A solo shouldn't easily be able to take out a juggernaut, but a small organized 3 man should be able to "blow holes in the ball groups" so the pugs can do more.
    Because, let's face it. The best ball groups are so rare because skilled talent and the developement of it is so rare, and then ORGANIZING 12 people is even more rare with high capacity players. So, as with all things in life, there needs to be a balance out there for SOLO folks like me who know EVERY CLASS in and out, PVP in and out, but doesnt have a 12 man at peak times. People like me want to enjoy the game too, but the state of ball groups is just garbage for an overall challenging experience. They pretty much just run over shit none stop with little that can be done outside of other ball groups, etc etc. (all the things mentioned in your thorough video). Subbed up for this video. Thanks for the content!

  • @myhandlewastakenandIgaveup
    @myhandlewastakenandIgaveup Рік тому +2

    At least back in the day, the good groups didn't run with the zerg and they will often focus on the corners and odd points in the map rather than the ring proper. Good ball groups are simply trying to fight the most players they can with the least they can. 12 v 60 - 80 isn't uncommon for a good ball group (or used to not be. Its been a while since I played eso).

  • @BibleThumpJD
    @BibleThumpJD Рік тому +2

    Will these builds be on the website?

    • @MalcolM.
      @MalcolM.  Рік тому +3

      I did not plan to put them on the website. The raid builds themselves are purely illustrative and the azureblight builds are quite specific to this video. I can put the latter on the website if there's more people asking for this.

    • @theflyingwasp2298
      @theflyingwasp2298 Рік тому

      Yes pls to the azureblight build … it’s my favorites set and would love to use it in pvp!!

    • @theflyingwasp2298
      @theflyingwasp2298 Рік тому

      @@MalcolM.pls post the sorc azureblight full build 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • @MaloXx_85
      @MaloXx_85 Рік тому

      Yes please put the build Malcolm 🤞

  • @joumaqui
    @joumaqui Рік тому

    Other level of videos man 🔝

  • @williamstevens8109
    @williamstevens8109 Рік тому

    bruh the part with dwayne johnson killed me im still laughin bro

  • @robertrjackson
    @robertrjackson 2 місяці тому

    Great info.

  • @supportmerit
    @supportmerit Рік тому +4

    It takes skill to co-ordinate and play together if you do it right.

    • @DS-lk3tx
      @DS-lk3tx 7 місяців тому

      "Stay on star and spam spells." 😂😂

  • @makesaucenotwar
    @makesaucenotwar Рік тому +1

    If they would limit heal stacking, those low to mid tier ball groups would end up getting wiped pretty easily. No reason someone should be able to have more than 2 echoing vigors on them

  • @MikeBeltMikeBelt
    @MikeBeltMikeBelt 6 місяців тому +3

    I can respect a troll style of play, I really can. But nothing says "I'm a bad player" like a ball group player. They can spin it any way they want and do.

    • @tac7073
      @tac7073 4 місяці тому

      Amen 🙏🏼

  • @xttsnty
    @xttsnty Рік тому +1

    Siegetards meta is the strongest counter

  • @unholyfrijole2009
    @unholyfrijole2009 Рік тому +1

    Great informative video. I get how frustrating fighting a ballgroup is, but all we want is another ballgroup to fight. Everything else is filler until we get that fight. Keep the videos coming!

  • @rhinosblades4205
    @rhinosblades4205 Рік тому +1

    Now a days on psn eso every time we get on we are fighting the server of course we are going to group I cant run solo without getting chased by 12+

  • @mr.grizley
    @mr.grizley Рік тому

    I hope more ppl watch this, got smarter and stop feeding ballgrps

    • @kevinsmith8076
      @kevinsmith8076 Рік тому

      Lol fr even when I played this game back in 2016 or whenever it was. Whenever I saw a group moving like a school of fish I would just sit back and watch everyone else just run in and get wiped😂. So tarded

  • @monalisa-bs4zs
    @monalisa-bs4zs Рік тому +7

    Ball groups essentially are fighting many 20vsolo to 10's of unoptimised randoms. No they do not take much skill. They take some time to optimise sets, skill, add ons etc and then they have an overwhelming statistical advantage vs hundreds of random players, think 40k resist, 20k hps and 40k dps. Not to mention server latency and having to guess where they are when they are using all speed buffs. Its an mmo and ball groups just use all the stats to gain an overwhelming advantage. Cant blame them, but don't get it twisted. Most in the ball group only have to push 2 skills and an ult and then let their sets and stats do all the rest.

    • @brooklynnewyork23
      @brooklynnewyork23 Рік тому

      Agreed. The skill comes from familiarity with teammates ball group v ball group. There are a lot of bad ball groups though that these tips will be useful for though

  • @Inkedmoon
    @Inkedmoon Рік тому +2

    Pretty much why I’ve stepped away from eso PvP, I like to 1vX but the amount of BGs running around is just annoying. I tried a BG as well, it’s koo for points but I’m not the type to enjoy asscheek holding gameplay all day. Also a lot of BGs treat eso like it’s their job lol I’m not doing that for a non-esports game

  • @hertzouttahell
    @hertzouttahell Рік тому +1

    Finally the game arrived what it was made for. V16 was the best time period in this game.

  • @SirSquash
    @SirSquash Рік тому +2

    Zerging is for bads
    Ball groups are for bads
    Running meta setups is for bads
    Rallying cry set is for bads

  • @prismatic162
    @prismatic162 Рік тому

    Shots fired 😂

  • @racenutalways8424
    @racenutalways8424 Рік тому +3

    screaming in ZC, "help with this ball grp" I ignore them, if you care about points in 2023 after population nerfs, that's your problem.. 12man can wipe the entire map for all I care. PVP in ESO is just desyncing your opponent, no skill required. EU players night capping having 12K pts lead, why do you care about points? Why would I be forced to join toxic ball grps that cause new players to quit? why you support this? The ones that don't quit make tank builds, NOT tanky builds, actual PVE tanks. I find it funny that it takes 6 man sweat in pay2win builds to kill one solo old fart(me)

    • @Sumowning
      @Sumowning 8 місяців тому +2

      People really out here defending a group of 8+ players running around with 40k HP each, spamming heals and AOE damage. Fun gameplay, real fun xD

  • @RaphX13
    @RaphX13 Рік тому

    Challenge for ya put together best azuriblight spec for each class on ur tabs for ur website could be fun I run it with vma ice staff brp dw one Druid one trainee and monster but not going to lie morag tong does seem fun

  • @slickback_was_taken
    @slickback_was_taken Рік тому +1

    It takes skill to play in a real group like this. We often sit at Glademist or Faregyl, siege from the resource and farm AD and DC until they log. People need to learn that they need to run negate and work together. It’s not rocket science but yet people still trickle in and don’t coordinate ultis. I would argue it does take skill, especially to be successful at primetime against a server and extremely outnumbered situations.

    • @slickback_was_taken
      @slickback_was_taken Рік тому

      Also, a good ball group will have constant detection, a defensive negate/heal ulti. We have yet to be bombed successfully by anything other than another group of equal or greater size.

    • @DS-lk3tx
      @DS-lk3tx 7 місяців тому +1

      It's just roleplay pvp. 😂

  • @johnaberle5955
    @johnaberle5955 11 місяців тому

    Ball groups are pretty easy. Follow the leader and ult dump. Synergize when it pops and keep your heals up. Snow treaders is op. Only skill based group play is 2-4 v X groups since you gotta be on skilled at every aspect of pvp outside of siege weapons/taking keeps.

  • @SquishMonster
    @SquishMonster 11 місяців тому +1

    Ball groups are gay. 😂 I always laugh when I see one rolling around.

  • @1848revolt
    @1848revolt Рік тому

    Ball groups is just a phalanx. Thats normal on battlefields

  • @ZDavidH
    @ZDavidH Рік тому

    Many knowns names there

  • @Agrartechnik_Fan
    @Agrartechnik_Fan Рік тому

    like your vids

  • @vibecountry
    @vibecountry Рік тому

    Me and my buddy can kill them, negate cleave bomber and nightblade destro staff bomber

    • @verafried6224
      @verafried6224 Рік тому

      Your just a shitty zerg bomber, calm down

  • @Spezies
    @Spezies Рік тому +1

    My problem with ballgrps are not there gameplay it's the lag spike if they rush back in or back around a corner after they run away. The server can't simply handle the many people who act like one. And that's why so many people die then. They simply cant roll, run out or use a skill in these milliseconds.

  • @LEFT_HAND_WILLY
    @LEFT_HAND_WILLY Рік тому

    12 v1 thats skills!!

  • @baguetteetcheese4665
    @baguetteetcheese4665 Рік тому

    The zerg must watch this video for a 125% more difficulty for solo pvp players xdd

  • @pjoterem141
    @pjoterem141 Рік тому

    remember to carpet negate your 8 man

    • @MalcolM.
      @MalcolM.  Рік тому

      we don't talk about that

  • @davidbenton3106
    @davidbenton3106 Рік тому +3

    Hate Balls Groups. Simple Fact - skill stacking for Healing and AOEs should be limited, don't even get me started on the weaponized lag spike they create on purpose.

    • @Sumowning
      @Sumowning 8 місяців тому

      Duuuude, don't even get me started on the lag. They are the sole reason Cyrodill became unplayable

  • @xHawgRyderx
    @xHawgRyderx Рік тому +1

    Ball groups exploit the mechanics of the game. Without Snow Treaders they would not exist. If Radiant or Echoing didn’t stack they wouldn’t exist. Individually the players in BGs have no dps outside of ultimate dumping. Frozen gate and negate spam destroys ball groups. Unfortunately not enough wardens or sorcs bar either. Ball groups have to run a telegraphed path. Great video. I’m always looking for tactics to destroy these pains in the butt.

  • @jd3ddy407
    @jd3ddy407 Рік тому +1

    Ball groups do take skill, but let 3 of them wander away from the crown and they’ll be deleted by a solo 800cp in 15 seconds

  • @Kitty-no3de
    @Kitty-no3de 4 місяці тому

    PLS consider posting azureblight builds, fighting ball groups just feels so pointless i want to just log out of the game. xans 12v1 shitter army already posting on the forums crying for azure to be nerfed, if even 1/3 of the people chasing ball groups around keeps dying over and over were at least helping with azure stacks maybe it wouldnt feel so hopeless lol

    • @turtle-bot3049
      @turtle-bot3049 Місяць тому

      Unfortunately, those crying thumbless shitters got their way and with U44, Azureblight got deleted from PvP completely...
      o7 to the removal of the one remaining thing non-ball group players had that could (somewhat) reliably put an actual dent in modern ball groups.

  • @eustacemcgoodboy9702
    @eustacemcgoodboy9702 10 місяців тому

    I don't see why this is controversial at all. 12 people should stomp all over 1 person. I guess there's basically 2 extremes, 1vX sweats and ball group players. With casual caught inbetween to be farmed. The 1vX sweats want to be able to kill the ball group 1v12 but thankfully the game isn't so broken as to allow that.

  • @DJTennier
    @DJTennier Рік тому +1

    Just call them zergs. Players who play like this are just dudes who have no thumbs after 9 years of pvp and need 6 healers to do anything in cyrodiil lol

  • @jester7199
    @jester7199 Рік тому +1

    Ball groups are a joke

  • @stevewasdf
    @stevewasdf 7 місяців тому

    basically they have no real counter.
    ridiculous. every other style of play gets nerfed except this. zos just say it all playstyles are wrong except this one.

  • @kurhooni5924
    @kurhooni5924 Рік тому +1

    Only one personne in a balle groupe deserve the glory, the leader, the others are cheesing :!D

  • @dailydistraction3793
    @dailydistraction3793 Рік тому +4

    ball groups ruin pvp in eso. its not the people that use them that are at fault though. its the face they let so many heal stacking

    • @eng.gabrielmorais9643
      @eng.gabrielmorais9643 Рік тому +1

      If u delete ball group from the scenario, u can either 20v1 or get zerged down.
      What do you do on cyrodil?

  • @bossdaddy348
    @bossdaddy348 Рік тому

    Very boring "meta"

  • @grzes848909
    @grzes848909 Рік тому +2

    Ballgroups are the reason people avoid non proc campaign cause fighting them without plaguebreak and/or dark convergence is too annoying.
    But fighting in proc campaign will cause you to face master DW/vateshran ice staff people and that's not fun either.
    There will always be people who will be a nuisance to others and suck the fun out of the game no matter where you go 😞

    • @Degonyte
      @Degonyte Рік тому

      There are barely any ballgroups in the non proc campaign, let alone good ones. Not to mention the absence of proc sets also affects ballgroups, since they heavily rely on them in proc campaigns.

    • @iskandar999-b1x
      @iskandar999-b1x Рік тому

      Ballgroups are hard carrying by proc set as pull set, without theses, they almost do not kill anyone

    • @Degonyte
      @Degonyte Рік тому

      They use the tools at their disposal. I've played in 8-man ballgroups in non-proc Cyro where none of that crap works, and we still killed massive amounts of people.

    • @iskandar999-b1x
      @iskandar999-b1x Рік тому

      @@Degonyte Pull sets make all the burst ult easy and permits to lower the skill needed

    • @Degonyte
      @Degonyte Рік тому

      @@iskandar999-b1xYeah and I play without them.

  • @Stefanovic5592
    @Stefanovic5592 Рік тому

    Malcom pls delete this Video it will destroy PvP , you a great player and did great Solocontent ,but for sure zerglings will watch the video and than is PvP unplayable

    • @eng.gabrielmorais9643
      @eng.gabrielmorais9643 Рік тому

      Consider that perspective: this vid can make a change. Keeping the game the way it is does not look like a good idea.

    • @ognevkafenella9741
      @ognevkafenella9741 Рік тому

      “Delete this video that took hours of gameplay, research, recording and editing” 🗿

  • @sirbathory
    @sirbathory Рік тому

    Ballgroup = zerg 2.0

  • @LaheyJ
    @LaheyJ Рік тому

    Zos desyncs me near groups so I don’t hafta worry bout this shit. Lol

  • @Degonyte
    @Degonyte Рік тому +3

    @Loooree