The Venus Project And The Resource-Based Economy | Answers With Joe
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Jacques Fresco started The Venus Project as a way to spread the word about the Resource Based Economy, an idea for a society beyond money. But is it feasible? And how would it work?
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The Venus Project home page:
www.thevenuspr...
Future by Design:
• Future by Design (2006...
The Choice Is Ours:
• The Choice is Ours (20...
A more skeptical look:
rationalwiki.o...
About Sidewalk Lab's Smart City concept:
www.wired.com/...
About Songdo and some of the issues they're having:
www.lemonde.fr/...
About Epcot:
en.wikipedia.o...)
The Disney Epcot Film:
• Walt Disney's E.P.C.O....
Jacque Fresco's Death in the NY Times:
www.nytimes.co...
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Jacque Fresco was born in 1916 and spent his young adult life struggling through the Depression, which informed his ideas about the economy and society as he grew older. He was a self-taught designer and architect who championed pre-fabricated homes in the 50s and 60s but his real passion was the future.
In 1969, he published a book called Looking Forward, which imagined a future society where technology has made it possible for everyone to have their needs met.
He continued on this line of thinking for the rest of his life, eventually forming The Venus Project with Roxanne Meadows, advocating for a resource-based economy.
And that social model is an entirely new economy that is not based on money, where automation and technology provides all our basic needs, nobody has to work, there’s no crime, no poverty, no waste, and it’s totally sustainable.
The Venus Project’s plan for smart cities is to incorporate a circular design, with the central hub housing the core of the cybernated system that controls resource management, educational and healthcare facilities, and communications networks.
Radiating out from there in all directions are concentric rings of buildings housing office space, institutions, and research laboratories.
Surrounding that is a green belt providing recreation and parks, then a residential belt with pre-fabricated homes.
From there, we find a band of apartment buildings and high-rises, again made from preformulated, modular pieces that also contain entertainment venues, theaters, and restaurants. Then an agricultural belt that grows all the food for the city along with hydroponic, aquaponic, and aeroponic facilities.
A circular waterway surrounds the agricultural belt for irrigation, and last but not least, a second recreation belt with paths for walking and biking, golf courses, and outdoor activities.
Anybody who’s been to Disney World in Florida or just watched the Disney Channel when they were kids knows about Epcot Center, but what you may not know was that the original plan for Epcot was something much, much more ambitious.
Epcot stands for Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. According to Disney’s vision, it would be an ever-evolving city designed to test the newest and greatest ideas in housing and urban planning. It would be connected by monorail to the theme park and would house the employees of the park.
But Epcot is not alone. From Octagon City in 1850’s Kansas to England’s Ebenezer Howard and his radial Garden City at the turn of the century to Broadacre City, planned by none other than Frank Lloyd Wright, the circular, modular city of the future is something that always seems to be planned… but never executed.
Earlier this year a company called Sidewalk Labs, a subsidiary of the Alphabet umbrella that includes Google, purchased 12 acres of waterfront property in Toronto, with the goal of testing out smart city designs and technology.
Just last week, Bill Gates purchased land outside of Phoenix Arizona with the purpose of creating a smart city, though we don’t have any idea on designs for that yet.
And in South Korea, a major smart city project called Songdo has been under construction for the last few years, but it seems to be short of reaching its goals and over budget. It’s supposed to be finished in 2020.
Whether or not the world will ever be ready for a Venus Project, I encourage everyone to learn more about Jacques Fresco, he truly is a fascinating person
"You may say, I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us.....and the world will live as one"
There is a song in there
Jacque Fresco is my new hero. I never met him, yet I miss him already. I intend to spend my retirement years spreading his message and ideas, and hopefully contributing to them. A resource based economy is too precious to ignore.
Yup. This is simply the next step in bettering the human (and animal) conditon. Advocacy, funding, and technical progress towards the Venus Project may be my life work.
He's my hero tooo bruh I wish I got to talk to em
be aware that this is technical, which means you should understand it before try to teach it.
Can you define a RBE with your own words?
@@huk5414In person he was kind, and a little distant. He also didn’t have much use for human activities he considered frivolous, which I considered unfortunate. But I feel privileged to have known him.
RIP, Jaque my old friend. You will be missed, your ideas have been heard. One day the human species might comprehend it fully. At the very least there is hope.
Most will never understand his way is probably the only way humanity will live on. We are running out of time. Before you know it it’s definitely gonna be to late to fix the problem 🤦🏾♂️
Lol if this happens we will be back to the stone age within a few centuries.
@@axumitedessalegn3549 agreed, it gives people little incentive to do anything other than recreational activities. Work for nothing or have fun for nothing? Though choice..
@@alistairmonro Really? You think so? You think people intrinsically have no internal drive to do anything but lie around and waste away their lives if they were given the basic necessities?
Personally I'm not fully convinced of the central ideology of the Venus project myself, but I can't deny the kind of waste that humans engage in when it comes to the distribution and usage of resources. Mathematical calculations provide ample evidence that without the corporate and political greed, there should be no famine, no hunger, no poverty, no unequal healthcare, etc. These are artificially created in the name of political and economic power grab.
Current technologies can problem solve pretty a lot of human issues that plague the earth if corporations and governments didn't stand in the way.
@@9y2bgy yes I do believe most people don't have the ability or drive of some of the people you reference. If there is no gain to something then little effort will be put in. Poverty wasn't created, wealth is created. You have to strive to survive. Basic rules for all life, it's nature.
This stuff really makes me think of Plato's descriptions of Atlantis, a city constructed within concentric circles and all that.
Where do you think many of these people get this idea?
@@garethbaus5471 Fresco himself says "Fu*k Fresco" and also mentions that man cannot think or reason (which is scientifically proven to be the case). We always learn after the fact and we always stand on the shoulders of others.
He denies being a genius and inventor because he knows the mechanics of learning, accumulated knowledge, experimentation and circumstance in a deterministic world.
@@garethbaus5471 No, no, no,no. Where do YOU think many people get this idea?
@@caseyreimerchwk the story of atlantis is a very likely source of inspiration.
It s for sure a replica
It would allow humanity to focus on creativity, imagination and innovation. We would evolve exponentially if we could do this. This is the future. 2020 is showing us that all current systems do not work.
No system works 100% effectively or (to use that childish word) 'fairly'. To think otherwise is utopianism, and is always dangerous i.e. millions killed dangerous.
@@sunnyjim1355 it isn't about being 100% perfect, just 100% better than anything we are doing now or have done before
@@TheMj18420 exactly...
“perfect” is a stupid concept, we just need “better than now”...
@David Orozco The point would be to eventually have a system designed to work without money, for everyone. No rich, no poor, just equitable access. We can create an abundance for all.
@@TheMj18420 but who is going to pay for the construction of the city and shared cars? Who is going to maintain the sewerage system for nothing extra than their neighbours get for playing golf?
One of the things I've realized over the years is that humans are surprisingly good at accepting utopia if it is how they were raised. We live in what people 300 years ago would think of as utopia, for instance, and we aren't exactly clamoring to give up our advancements.
We obsess about our worries over utopia going wrong, but that's been the only thing preventing us from actually achieving it.
And as long as you provide them maximum liberty, with their animal needs met, they will excel as humans and doing amazing things.
This is because humans are spending 90ish% or something of their neural energy being anxious and trying to survive, still.
Almost all great human discoveries and achievements have come around in the upper classes, simply because the genius of the lower class was WASTED on survival.
It's absolutely time we move on from this primitive monkey fear trip and achieve our destiny. We need to free human brains from base worries.
Isn't survival the goal though? I agree though that resources are poorly managed worldwide.
@UC5kvpY1pJUP4irs6G4xQUrA I agree with the points that you make. Survival isn't the goal, because it's a goal that can't be achieved. All roads lead to death. ALL OF THEM. but we can enjoy the rollercoaster of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
We don't need Utopia, time and time it's proven that humanity needs *challenges* to rise above anything life throws at us, to survive disasters and learn from them
once we remove challenges, humanity will wither away
and no: "Orchestrated" challenges are NOT real challenges
"I'm gonna climb that mountain" isn't the same as "You will climb that mountain" one is choice, the other slavery
@@plantstho6599 yah it was the greed is good mantra pushed in the 70s, which is clearly not the picture you want for long term growth. Greed is explosive growth, at the expense of overall growth. Greed will get you what you want, but not what you need. But then again, you need what you want, which is why greed is innate. But far too many people get what they want, before they know how to handle it. Which is why they handle it badly.
"worry is a misuse of imagination." I keep remembering that meme.
A great presentation on the concepts of The Venus Project, which was then immediately undermined by the "defence" of capitalism, showing that the presenter had not fully understood the concept of a Resource Based Economy. Joe also omits that Jacque himself said that the system was only ever likely to be used in the event of catastrophe - when we're on the verge of destroying ourselves or we're left with no choice. The suggestion that capitalism will eventually work itself out is, and always was, laughable.
"Anyone who believes in Indefinite Growth upon a Physically Finite Planet are either mad, or an economist" - David Attenborough
"and a hotpocket." I literally spit my drink on my monitor.
i think you over reacted
The Greek poet Sappho, who lived on the island of Lesvos when it was part of Lydia, and who lived during the 7th century BCE, when the Lydians minted the first coinage in the world, had this to say about money:
'Money, without human value, lives amongst us to do harm.' The lady knew a thing or two.
I love this idea, I give this 12 out of 10. Its brilliant, I would move to that kind of city immediately.
Just go to prison. Basically the same thing
@@eddiepeterson3231 proof that you didn't understand ANY of his project.
you want Communism? cos this is how you get Communism
@@ResurrectingJiriki it's not even remotely the same thing!
@@sumobowler3790 sure it is not, but it is.
the Venus Project is basically Communism. These big corporations have been planning this for many decades and are trying to now finally do away with money. The UN came out just a few weeks ago with a plan to help the most in need with a universal basic income.
Make it all digital, no more markets, resource based.... sure. Also remove all incentive.
But dystopian yeah, that it is. Those rings they show in their 'plans' of the Venus Project, remind me of the movie 'In Time' where the super rich have immortality and the plebs are destined to die, as the elites need increasingly more as there are more of them and 'change' the 'value' of things so people can not make enough time to not die. With 'free money for free' already in the works from the UN, the 'In Time' reference might make one see the predicament we are facing.
FYI the UN also recently changed their URL to UNNWO. yeah, New World Order that is. With their new form of economic system: "Happytalism".
If that does not sound dystopian I don't know what does.
#NewspeakIsTheNewNormal
I tell people about the Venus project and they look at me like I'm crazy! Of course it could work, the earth could be a living paradise with the right system but the monetary system has most people brainwashed and don't want to even think that there could be other alternatives. When I die I will make sure people know what I thought about the monetary system while I was alive and that they would know I did my part to promote alternatives.
I am a millionaire and would be happy to give it all away just to see this succeed for the betterment of the whole of mother earth.
Awesome statement, I believe that it will work as well. It's better for humanity and the earth to implement a resource based economy.
Right on! Help support them then, and tell your friends as well. All we need is 51% awake, then momentum will do the rest! We have to be close! 👍🏻🙏🏼🧘♂️✌🏼
then stop talking and do it. invest those millions into TVP infrastructure. invest it into the engineers that can build it into reality. contact Roxanne Meadows and take action where others cannot.
I’ve tried to build a Venus Project city on a city simulator and the design does work, but in a currency based system each section starting from the middle has to have residential, commercial, and industrial in order to support the next section being built. That’s really the only obstacle in a currency based system, or at least on a simulator.
May i have more information of your project please?
I love the Venus Project. Seems like absolutely everyone would be thriving and enjoy living in a world like this. Given that in the way we live now, we spent majority of our time trying to figure out how to get by (to have money to pay for our life) in the least damaging way, living in a setting without that worry would mean we could actually cultivate our talents and abilities that are not always easy to monetise.
It's lovely to sit around and dream about what we'd like to see happen, but the truth is what we really need to do is figure out how we're gonna deal with what IS going to happen.
Automation and AI are definitely developing at an increasing rate, so sometime not too long from now there are going to be more people than there are jobs, whether or not it gets to the point where machines do ALL work.
So a very present question is what are we gonna do with people when there just isn't any work for them to do?
At the same time we have to deal with the problem of super-greed, which plagues America right now. We've made more billionaires in the last ten, twenty years than ever, but seriously: why should any one person have billions of dollars when many people can't eat and have to live outside? But the politicians live to serve the 1%, simply because that's where the money is.
Right now there's a huge ideological struggle going on between people who think everyone should get what they need, and people who say nobody should get anything for nothing. One thing that's overlooked is that most people with a lot of money didn't do any more to earn it than a bus driver, many just get lucky with a rich dad, or knowing someone who gives them a huge paying job. But when pressed they get defensive and insist they deserve to keep everything because they EARNED it.
But even the people who really did earn it (and I'm saying this believing that NO person works enough to deserve a billion dollars for their work) overlook the fact that they got where they got on the shoulders of society. They got roads, utilities, infrastructure, and a lot more that ordinary non-rich people around them paid for, so the people legitimately deserve a chunk of that money. But politicians, in honor of Reagan, keep cutting taxes on the wealthy, which didn't really help them but screws everyone else. We gotta put an end to that, and kill the whole "trickle down" nonsense for good, instead of letting politicians keep doing it.
So ultimately we're gonna have to get in a war with the rich and the people/politicians that served them, to pry the money out of their hands. The weird thing is that this is so difficult even when so many people have WAY more money than they can ever use. But they fight for and achieve cuts in things like inheritance tax so their kids can live rich without doing anything, when in fact the best people to take money from are obviously the dead who don't need it anymore, because creating financial dynasties does not help society in the long run.
Look at Trump, he got millions from his dad, wasted a lot but also made a lot on investments that other people can't make. How is it fair to give one person a huge chunk of investment capital that he can live luxuriously off, but another person gets nothing, just because his dad wasn't rich?
I'm just saying that where we are NOW is leading to new places no matter what, and we have to start figuring out how things will work in the future we're gonna get.
Jeff White When enough people are out of work, they will create unrest that will not be able to be suppressed or ignored. People keep focusing on automation as the cause, but developed countries are also losing jobs to outsourcing. And it’s not just “unskilled labor” like manufacturing. Any English speaking person in the world with a computer and an internet connection can take a desk job now. Customer service, purchasing, supply chain, all kinds of industries.
It's not so much an ideological battle where one half is saying people should get something for nothing. It's more about people saying no-one has a right to TAKE from people to give to others for nothing without their consent. A more passive purely consumption based tax system might solve that to some degree
That’s why war and violence is the true future of the unstable primate called humans. The delusional believe of wealth is coming if only I keep think of myself and no one else. Arm everyone and let’s get to been what most humans are, violent and unstable.
The Holy Bible is the answer to all of this, but I will get totally flamed for even saying this. Humans Have to work to live since Adam and Eve screwed humanity in the Garden when they disobeyed God. My opinion and I have friends that are agnostics and even atheist. I do not hate them for their belifes and we get along fine not arguing about such and just sharing common interests in other things. Flame on!
@@danwhite2035 Not going to fuel your persecution complex (which is almost even mandated in the Bible). If you are using that reprehensible set of books as a moral guide, you will come to quite a lot of wrong moral conclusions. Having actually read the thing myself, I know how terrible its instructions are.
First: I would love to implement 90% of the Venus Project into our everyday living at some point. And Second: The circular city design isn't just something that we create as cities of the future like on Coruscant in the Star Wars universe, but something from the past as well, see Plato's designs for what the city of Atlantis was supposed to have looked like.
Moscow is a circular-ish shape and there is nothing perfect about it
@@TymaDem Did I specifically mention Moscow?
No.
Are you wrong?
Also no.
@@TymaDem Moscow is pure chaos, it just grew kind of circular but wasn't planned like that, soviets built cities near work not really around, this is something they didn't think about.
i have just recently learned that all people are damn powerful, they got passion and talents (most unrecognized) that would blow your mind, if you would just let them develop them...
and i just recently learned that, the mainstream (cultural) way of thought shuts down most passions and talents, treating them as "unworkable, useless, that of criminals, unproductive, unimportant, stupid..." you name it, we unconsciously create anxiety and stress on those individuals that are different to us, too judgmental to even begin to discern how much were harming and hampering would-be great people.
since then, i have stopped putting down people (always comparing them to my system of values), and i started encouraging their passions and talents, so they will enrich this world with their minds and creations, whatever they may be.
@Bob Gatewood - I'm really curious what happened that led you to recently learn these things?
Empowerment to save tomorrow with the hearts and minds of today.
They need to try this in Detroit its already a wasteland
Divert israhells ten million a day theft to Detroit an see how they fare
@chad porter end NAFTA / tafta / "free trade" raise terriffs will bring jobs back, it's not rocket science just stop the theft
@@dianathompson7597 Ending free trade will mean less goods that are inferior in quality and cost at least 25% more. Tariffs are essentially a sales tax which is a regressive tax, hitting the lowest income earners the hardest. You only have to look at trumps tariffs which are destroying small businesses and have cost at least 400,000 jobs to see how bad tariffs are.
@@unknown-hf3jg a resource based economy doesn't have jobs
Can't have sh1t in Detroit
So sad he didn't get the recognition he deserves
I've been thinking about something like this for a long time now...if I can I'll create it, I guess we'll see...wish me luck ^^
Ppl need to talk about this, these ideas are important.
@@dianathompson7597 Very much so
It's a good place if you thinking to gathering talented people as citizens. Applicants must be scientists, artisans, inventor, writer and so on...
@@MrLanceHeartnet indeed
I want Venus project to succeed, sounds like Heaven on earth
No One sounds horrible
Well, you would love the good old USSR then
It's can't be achieved in a way humanity already knows, such as communism, it has to be achieved in entirely new way. This idea is not meant to modernize an old way of life, it's meant to create a new more advanced, more evolved way of life! The irony is that most of humanity is not evolved enough and unfortunately humanity will destroy the world sooner than be ready to commit to save it... Please proof me wrong!
@@Max-tu4qd
The reason we have evolved so far is because of necessity
A lot of inventions have come out of the need to save/protect ourselves
*and we will always need this ability*
for the first malevolent force that comes across us after we achieved enlightment (and any other stupid hippy crap) will wipe us out
Sorry the cult already disbanded.
The circular city works every year out at Burning Man for 70,000 people. It's an effective plan I have been in that city several times. It's like roundabouts on roads it takes people a while to get used to it compared to a grid pattern.
Thanks for another great video!
You mentioned a number of assumptions that you took exception to and I just wanted to add one that I found in the FAQ,that you linked, about the difference between communism and the Venus Project.
"Police, prisons and the military would no longer be necessary when goods, services, healthcare, and education are available to all people."
The world is so complex that there will always be situations, on a single citizen to nation state level, that will need some sort of arbitration and this city would have to co-exist with other Non-Venus Project economies(at least at the beginning) which probably do have a Military creating an existential threat that would require something in response to it. I guess the tricky part of that answer posted is in the assumption "available to all people". You never will get "all" people, at least at once. At first it could prove successful and start to get copied, but the current control forces that can act will act to protect themselves from losing power.
Very complex stuff. I always say the future of humanity is either Caveman or Spaceman and this video accurately points out the challenges society faces moving forward.
Thanks for all your great videos and your reasonable thoughts!
I always liked this quote:
3 men stand before god, god asks them: "Which one of you wants war?"
only 1 raises his hand, god points at him and says: "He wins"
The future for humanity like always is competition and necessity, the 2 driving forces the Venus project wishes to eradicate
Being that Fresco proposed hydroponic agriculture in skyscrapers and massive interior structures perhaps the best places to explore the idea would be in Northern Canada, Siberia, Southern Argentina and if you can desalinate water which we have some technology for desert areas by the ocean can also use the model.
It also probably could be a good model for Iceland which already has geothermal energy. Being that geothermal is one of frescos proposals and I think Iceland citizens would be excited for such a sustainable development.
If the community was self sustaining and was designed to produce enough abundance for exports to gain outside resources it could be a good model for now.
It might be a good model to really colonize isolated places on earth.
Who wants to live in Northern Canada and Siberia ?
Yayaya123 People who would otherwise be living underwater if they don’t move.
@@matthewkopp2391 There is plenty of space in southern Canada, no need to be extreme :P
I live in the middle of nowhere’s N.B Canada (south, Near U.S border.) plenty of space here 😛👌🏼
Never knew of such a man, thanks Joe. Why circles though, wouldn't a honeycomb structure make more sense?
Two technological leaps for this vision to come true would have to be
1) efficient batteries (already being worked on) and
2) Android slaves. It would start a sort of second human renaissance.
the circle is a great symbol. Everyone can look towards the center where those controlling their lives and everything else in their world do their godlike work.
Within a few generations (if that long) the center will include housing for the elite and barracks from which issue forth the riot control troops to keep the population under control when they complain about the latest reduction in rations or increase in work hours.
I appreciate Wu-Tang Clan reference.
I was one of the luck one to have met Jacque Fresco in person when he was 97 years young. This world will be better if the idea comes true. He knew that the project takes drastic measure and event especially psychological, behavior modification is required. He never said it was easy. I talked to him about the human greed and individualism, but he insisted that it's possible to change. Before meeting Jacque, I had started a "disaster free floating home" concept but ran into some engineering and monetary limitation.
I think that they way through that makes the most sense for things like greed and individualism is not a system that confronts it, but one that is indifferent to it. I think that working from a clean slate is unhelpful, like taking a painting on canvas that is unwell and accepting that you have a very very limited amount of paint to change it, making the most economical brushstrokes you can. little changes that make big ripples.
Epcot is Venus project equivalent? Rolleyes. Epcot was designed to be the ultimate rendition of corporate capitalism, where Disney will have absolute control of the entire economy himself. It's amazing how such an amazingly glaring difference can be ignored when one desperately tries to protect one's ego that has been attached to Capitalism. The mentality behind the Venus project when implemented means there is no one man who rules all, but rather, all must live according to the laws of physics and thus, nature, because nothing can defy physics, not even the almighty false deity of money so many have been brainwashed into worshipping. The scientific method just so happens to be the best method humanity knows of to understand and apply the rules of nature that humanity must abide by if our species is not to suffer needlessly under it's own stupidity.
I support this.
To claim it isn't possible,means you're not the one to make it possible, at least not a contributer to it's development in society. But at least you made an effort bringing the subject up, thank you for that.
We can do this now after the COVID pandemic revealed our flaws. Capitalism isn’t working...time for humanity to stop repeating the insanity. It is 2020 and this cannot be the best we can be with all our time and energy we’ve had to figure it out. Can we build a world that thrives?
And so the seeds the of Great Ring War of 2235 were planted...
I wish to live in a future in which the highest class restaurants feature gourmet HotPockets® on their menu.
Just realized that the whole Tony Stark's dad's city of the future is a copy-paste of this.
Both things are based on Buckminster Fuller's work
@@danpenia219 Which proves the point Fresco was trying to make - we can achieve more together for everyone's benefit. Sharing knowledge & ideas. Making money just seems so primitive & dirty now. The whole economic system is defunct.
the biggest obstacle is not to reject money bit to reject price and debt
Canberra Australia, was originally built like this around parliament house, and features 2 large ring roads, as it expanded the rest became like any other city.
Future will be decentralized, open and free instead of closed, centralized and controlled.
Ask yourself what is freedom? China is a closed central economy, but they have shown how it works. They have made the fastest growth rate and economic miracle in Asia. But they are not perfect and that is because there are people doing the planning with agendas. If you liberate that with resource based planning, there will be positive change there.
The West has become corrupt and not as sustainable as being promoted. There is a slow decay that will eventually dethrone thier hold on the world. They have brought war and misery to millions of people in lesser developed nations.
Life is not usually what you want but it will be what you can live with. So expect fascism and tyranny if the alternative is anarchy and want. I think Americans will accept absolute rule if the alternative is loss of cable tv.
So unlike Venus Project?
After reading through a bunch of the comments, I'm very disheartened how many (most likely young) misguided people think capitalism is evil and "doomed to fail" ignoring what it's done for the world, especially if you live in the west. It's the only system with the motto of "live and let live" why are so many busy bodies insistent on telling me how I should live my life?
when we get open source matter replicators, things can change...
No one noticed how Joe just casually rolled the lyrics from Wu-Tang Clan in his informative output?
4:38 hearing Wu Tang lyrics recited in your normal narration voice 😂
CAN YOU PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON "LIFE AFTER THE APOCALYPSE?"
you know:
HOW TO SURVIVE WITHOUT LIFE THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW............WHAT SHOULD PRIORITES BE...........WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO FIRST...........HOW TO REBUILD.......
Future and Utopian Martian Economy in the Earth. This is a good project
The Venus project ignores too many realities about human nature but it is not without its virtues to be sure.
The wheel, spokes and hub ideas are as bad as checker board square city planning. but each has some good points. The problem is finding the best of both ideas, and that can deal with small hills and river/creek valleys.
No it doesn't. Have you seen their documentaries and read their books?
Fun fact it radial cities have actually worked and prospered to an extent we cannot believe to this day , kindly check out Benin in Africa and the Great Zimbabwe.
7:30 lmfao! I was scratching my nutz!
This is a Type One Civilisation on the Khardeshev Scale. It will happen but we have to reach Type 1 or close to it.
Automation will only eliminate 30% of jobs? Now who's dreaming...
Implementing a resource-based economy on our planet, with its finite resources, implies doing two things; removing the growth imperative from capitalism and stabilizing population within broad limits. Both of these goals will meet intense resistance.
Even Jacque repeated on many occasions that the Transition shall be painful. Wars, Assassinations, Famine, the lot. But I suppose that doesn't matter when the Climate Crisis is hot on our toes.. hmm.. People need to ask themselves that very important question: What kind of world do we wish to live in?
I’m a Conservative, and a Trump voter. And I want to see the “Venus Project” succeed.
Then I bet you aren't a conservative, and have just been lied to regarding the terminology and alignment of your ideas .
There will always be some crime.
i find that hard to believe if there was a generation living where all there needs where met,
Especially as long as governments, especially big governments exist and remain unaccountable!
@Mia we would just make it the law that every women will have three husbands. problem solved and everyone is happy again. :)
@Mia we are not happy now,, some times my back hurts, i could really use a couple nights off. :)
@@DANTHETUBEMAN Crime doesn't just arise from need, it comes from all sorts of stimuli, mental illness for instance, mass shooters arent shooting up schools because their basic needs weren't met.
The project sounds perfect for Mars.
8:12 Capitalism? You mean CORPORATE FACISM. Tell me how a government that regulates maintains a free market? The U.S. tax system lets the IRS assume control over all income generated by payers. Allowing them to keep whatever percent the IRS decides, which can change with laws. Laws paid by corporate lobbying. Did I mention frational reserve lending? I'll let you borrow a piece of paper, but you owe me ten back. Not gold, bronze, or even steak. Fresco acknowledged corruption through monetizing nature. If you think its ok to transact your time and energy for a piece of paper that stops you from collecting a resource that we could share, I think your stupid. Egypt didnt have money, plenty of gold though.
I'm worried folks would get bored. Conflict seems pretty well bred into humans. If they can't find some external reason to fight, they'll create one. We've had the ability to effectively do this, for quite some time now. The fact that we don't, is a pretty strong indicator that we won't without a major paradigm shift.
Jaques Fresco is a GODSEND ✔🌠
Your end credits to Jacques Fresco was a noble touch :)
I am sure that no one will be here to read my comment. But Jean and Blue...I agree with your comments 100%... I was depressed to hear Joe Scott saying that capitalism works.... Like you both, I would put my heart and soul into helping to develop a 'smart City'. The venus project sounds amazing. Just an afterthought, If the outer wall of each city was a Hexagonal Shape, wouuld that help each city to interconnect like a bee hive? Just taking notes from nature!....
Hey Joe, you really need to do a video about betavoltaics. Would love to hear your thoughts about it. As well as your predictions. I watched a lot of your other videos about batteries, like graphene, liquid metal, and solid-state batteries, and I think this would be a great addition. From what I've seen, they are really low output but last for years without even needing a single charge. Since they work through radioactive decay. Forgive me everyone if any of this is simplified, im no expert.
money isn't what people are after... power and influence is the thing we want, money is just a way to get there.
I just hope he lives a lot longer and leaders follow his visions
The Toronto project was killed this week :(
Silly bureaucrats. Canada could have finally had something cool for once. Not to mention all the added tourism and jobs.
Good. Do you really think it's a good idea to give a corp that much power. Esp seeing all the ppl losing their livelihoods coz they said something Google don't like?
Oh alright, somehow his defense of capitalism faded with his eulogy for Jacque Fresco.
What
Human nature is provably good, wholesome and nice. Capitalism and capitalist propaganda pits us against each other. Just watched your video about how you and your neighbors and friends stuck together during the Texas freezing/blackouts stuff, i think you know human nature is good.
I'm sorry Joe, but you have to read 📚 or listen to the audiobook The New Human Rights from Peter Joseph (Yes, the guy that created the Zeitgeist movies). He is not the only one either to explain how Capitalism is a terrible economical system.
In regards to the so called good things you mentioned that Capitalism have brought; well they are due to advances in technology that we owe to scientists, not politicians. A resource based economy is, by far, the most sustainable and effective system accessible to mankind.
Resource needs change and specific resource availability change geographically. For example most of the rare elements are located in China. And you are not going to grow vegetables in the desert. So "cities" will still specialize in what is "marketable". Cities will grow and die as resource needs grow and die. But I agree that some version of what we have now and what we could have (or will HAVE to have) is better than what we have now.
Also, ancient societies followed a resource based, bartering system. Europeans invented credit and money.
All money is, is a way to make bartering easier, as it could get complicated if don't want what I have to offer in a barter.
Credit is what allowed billions of people to be lifted out of poverty.
Things work as they are right now. Changing everything fast is a recipe for disaster, and our entire history is proof of that.
Nope... ua-cam.com/video/CZIINXhGDcs/v-deo.html
Money has been around since the dawn of civilisation, in the form of precious metals, to solve a practical issue: The need for an easily transportable, long-lasting store of wealth. Europeans did invent banking, though.
Hi there, this came back up in my recommended and I must pose the notion that this great correction he’s talking about is in fact what we are experiencing currently and all of this chaos is just society adjusting and actively making that correction... it’s never pretty.
Zachary Ramsey yes.. the renaissance was preceded by some pretty horrible stuff but in the end improved the lives of almost everyone. The same thing, I think, is happening now
This philosophy removes the crucial component of motivation for tasks. It would stagnate all development.
Communism in disguise
How does it remove self-actualisation?
And it would probably lead to the near total loss of civil liberties to boot! Not a very good system.
No. They explain it, based on scientific evidence, but you are to lazy to learn more about it
I'm pretty sure you think differently with today's crisis Joe 😜
I'd like a less extreme version. We hopefully could construct a supercomputer/robot army that would provide us with resources, food, living space, access to common technologies (smartphones, coffee machines, showers, cars, etc.), common services, electricity, water, etc. within the next few decades. Then we would still use money for unusual and less essential things. That would basically be a way to eliminate suffering without stopping progress by communism.
"Communism isn't radical enough" ~ Jacque Fresco
I think people would still face boredom; still face sadness and pain and lust for things and people not for them...still hurt each other.
Anyone else see the similarity in that presentation by Walt Disney, and Howard Stark's plan for his theme park, from the Iron man movie?🤔
This did not age well.
I think we could at the very least, give all people basic needs. Shelter, Food, Utilities, Clothing, and Health Care.
unless there is a mandatory lobotomy procedure in each citizen...then this idea just sounds nice.
The sad part is that we are beyond capable to build more modern cities than the outdated infrastructure we've failed all along. He who rules science rules the world. Putting logic before hierarchy is something the entirety of humanity has yet to realize.
QUESTION: With all these graphs and charts showing this progress in the positives of capitalism 7:50... are there any projections, estimates, studies, or graphs etc to compare them to/versus a venus project or something similar? just curious
Sounds like a communistic nightmare. I like capitalism.
Circular city? No. Hexagonal city? Now that is forward thinking.
"given the positive trajectories the world is going in right now" - hello from June 2020, those trajectories just tanked.
Yeah, nobody accounted for global pandemic originating from communist dictatorship that used all means available to cover it up, until it all blown into rest of humanity faces.
How fragile capitalism is
@@keeperofthefate Amazing how you know what the rest of us dont....
@@zach5539
Compared to what? Socialism?
@@zach5539 communism isn't any good either. Look at CHAZ/CHOP 4 or 5 shootings and they ran out of food in 2 days
And the walls around the outer part of the circle helps keep the Titans out.
Shinzou wo sasageyo!
It's best to be prepared!
Legit!
I thought that war was not a thing in this resource-based economy.🤔
@@khalilrehman6285 Jacque Fresco says that the walls are for animals to not be able to come in also walls do not protect against 90% of weapons today.
A concept I loved from the Venus Project is that it’s not a Utopia because it’s based on the scientific method which is technically always evolving. Just makes it feel more tangible in my mind
I was first exposed to the venus project in one of those zeitgeist documentaries, in the late 2000s - early 2010s, and I was blown away by the concept. I even did a bunch of research, and wrote a huge paper on in for one of my classes. I truly believe the venus project is the type of system that would allow us as a species to achieve our full potential, and in pains me to my very core to know that it will likely never come to fruition.
To be honest, the economic monetary system’s are by design always going to fail due to potential corruption. Empires rise and fall because of this throughout history, from the Dutch to English and finally to the American empire at present, all the way back to the Roman Empire. Every time empires change their are 20 year transitional periods of political unrest and wars between the rising powers and the falling powers. Unfortunately this time we have nuclear weapons that will destroy everything. With climate change, pollution, wars, political instability and a declining demographic population ( an ageing population with not enough being born to maintain these empires) that threaten our very existence due to the monetary system failing’s we actually have no choice but to do something as drastic as a complete change to resource based economy.
Utopias always sound good on paper but in practice we all starve
@@lreichardt There is no utopia. There's only as good as we can possibly do at that time and place, until times and ideas change again and then we have to adapt and change again with them.
A Resource-based Economy isn't perfect, it's just much MUCH better than what we have now.
@@lreichardt its better than what we have right now
@@lreichardt when has this been practiced? There is no shortage of land,water ,seeds or sunlight...or knowledge...
I'm not sure I see your logic
Jacque himself admitted in a interview on his youtube channel that the Venus Project most probably will never happen, at least not as he proposed it, he just hoped that others could at least take some of his ideas and apply them into their own system, a better system, it doesn't need to be exactly as he imagined it.
That's a tough guy right there. Only respect for him.
Fair enough. And I think Jacques ideas set a great train of thought and some good vocabulary for people to create better systems. I think a resource based economy is just common sense. Seriously. It's something so obvious that if a child wasn't polluted by the capitalists lifestyle we mostly force upon them, they would find a resource based economy exactly sensible with how life is supposed to work. At an early age they all understand things this way. They have a ball, they go outside to play and they use the grass and the environment to do what they want with it. The might want to dig a hole, they try with their fingernails and find it is pretty hard, so they search for a tool, find a shovel and it works much better. But everything is a resource-based economy to them. What they see is what they get to use. And, for kids whose basic needs are taken care of at home, they are free to explore and use what nature has given them.
We need to realize we, as humans, have trapped ourselves in a box that used to be somewhat functional before we had efficiency increasing technologies, but now money and markets are an interference for our problem solving and we should recognize that and act accordingly to change the system so it works for our new reality.
On it
@@coolioso808 is common sense if you think in relationship of others technical areas. So that the discipline of engineering to exist should be people formed in that area, managing the global population isn't different, and that is an education we ALL should have in order to work.
@@fabriciofercher8317 I wouldn't say people thinking in terms of relationships and systems connected to other areas is 'common' sense. I wish it was more common, but it doesn't seem to be at this point.
We should know, as humans, about interconnectedness. We are all interconnected, all living things and we either create a social system that respects that and works with Natural Law rather than fights against it for a fictional prize for a minority of people to profit disproportionately from called money.
We don't all need to be engineers to understand relationships and to contribute something meaningful, especially at a local level. We do it throughout our lives in various ways, often volunteer work but also some professional work. However, we need a system that is working to create sustainable abundance for all in the community, approaching zero marginal cost (like Jeremy Rifkin talks about).
There is a proposal called "One Small Town" by Michael Tellinger where any small town with about 5,000 agreeing members decide to create an even co-operative where they volunteer 3 hours a week to build up local abundance and self-sustainability for basic needs like food, water, energy, healthcare, education and more!
This is not what TVP has in mind, exactly. As I've read up on TVP and they suggest 'old cities' are too old to be efficiently retro-fitted so new cities from the ground up should be built, is what they say. I don't think that's feasible. I think some new cities built to be highly efficient and smart would be good, but too many people already live in cities for us to just destroy or let them become ghost towns to go move into new cities.
Multiple approaches need to be available for people to see what fits them best.
"You can't get lost on a circular street"
1. You overestimate my intelligence
2. You have never been to Cary NC lol
How about Newton's Grove NC?
Word.
I have, lol
yeah you can't get lost going round in circles in a place where everything looks the same... O.o
@@HarfangX Joe Scott is missing out very important information. The naming of streets and places will be chronological, example given from official sources is a numbering system, number 0 could be the center and then from left to right outwards you count street 1, 2 , 3 and so on.
Just by reading the number of the "street name" you will know how far you are from the center and estimation of where on the circle you are radially.
A crude example but I hope you get my explanation.
I knew Jacque Fresco very well during the Eighties, where a small group of us would meet at his little house in North Miami Beach on Friday and Saturday nights and discuss his vision of what life in a scarcity-free society might actually look like. Like you, I was always skeptical in my heart of hearts that such a world could actually come to pass, human history and the passions that make it such a chaotic mess being what they are. Like Carl Sagan (another hero of mine), Jacque had a touching and probably naive faith in the ability of reason and compassion to prevail against fear and ill will. Sadly, our world seems to be on anything but that trajectory at the moment. But the dream of an equitable, sustainable future will live on despite the naysayers. It lives in places like the Mondragon region of Spain, where some of Fresco’s ideas have been put into practice (and his portrait hung in the city offices), and in the novels of Ursula Le Guin and Kim Stanley Robinson. Though his future will probably never come to pass in its entirety - I’m not even sure that it should - he was nevertheless a great man who totally disdained the concept of great men.
Thank you sharing that. I resonate strongly to his vision
I thought I noticed some similarities between the Venus Project and Kim Stanley Robinson's novel about Mars!
"Jacque had a touching and probably naive faith" He had literally the opposite of Faith. His whole ideology was based on understanding Why things happen. Not hoping(having faith) that they would or could, but understand why or why not. Had nothing to do with Faith. Don't patronize him. "though his future will probably never come to pass" Where do you get your crystals balls, and also, what is the point of saying that. of course your skeptical but keep that shit to yourself. Don't you think Jacque was also skeptical if it was going to happen, Of course, but he wasn't going around saying "I'm skeptical about this" That doesn't help. That makes it worse. Be brave. Humans Are evolving.
We need to gather around this idea again. I used to watch ever video that man put out. His vision was inspirational.
Aspects of it certainly need to be implemented. Short of a revolution of major cataclysm the consumer driven economy won't change. People are wising up to it though and communities like the tiny house and minimalist movements are growing each year. But those with the most to lose hold all the power and make the laws to prevent decent change from ever occurring.
Perhaps one day when scarcity of precious resources that are easily accessible will demand a radical shift in thinking will lead people to rue the day they didn't listen to those like Jacque.
The perfect city shape is not a circle, it's a cube. Resistance is futile.
You will be assimilated
Totally true though
Spoken as a true geek.
Best comment.
The tetrahedron is the perfect shape. That is why resistance is ultimately successful.
“Capitalism is kinda working..” not 0.5 seconds before an Ad plays😂
LMAO!
Perfect!
hence the “kinda” lmaoo
the shape of cities is irrelevant; it just so happens that its the easiest one to reproduce, and is the most efficient.
it really is about removing the stresses of modern life, and freeing people to chase after whatever non destructive ambition self actualizes them
Isn't it easier to build straight roads?
Square cities want to have a word with you.
Thats communism brother
@@joebidenisapedophile what's your suggestion? Democracy obviously doesn't work.
@@BarrySlisk why would you travel in a line somewhere, and then have to travel back down the line, when you can revolve around a circle. it'd be much more efficient
Most people agree with the general ideas but almost no-one wants to take the steps needed to achieve them.
IDK I think people would like to work less and be less stressed
@@WanderingIdiot81 If any government in the world start to give stuff for free. (houses, food or health services) then people start to complain and call them communists.
@@f1945 everyone who isn't a Republican gets called a communist
I don't agree with these ideas any more than I think we should give up our corporeal form and become energy beings
@@mrsith1402 both great ideas! 😁
Gates building a city? Cant wait to see them reboot an entire city every few months!
Would you like to update your city?
for the seventh time NO!
Lol.."support is ending for your city tomorrow so you need to pay up..yet again"
Pissed off citizens then move out and start their own Linux based city.
Guys, I love these. Keep it up.
This city will have 7 different design languages, it will be a mess.
Would anyone actually read the 2,500 page user agreement?
Oh, we'll never get rid of money...
...after all, how will we know who's better than everyone else without all those imaginary numbers in their bank account.
Fresco's own design has individual homes that make it seem as if you live in the wilderness and APARTMENTS in a separate zone. Hmm. Who chooses who gets to live in what and what are the benchmarks?
There will always be a status system and wealth has always been the benchmark. Power is wielded through wealth. No currency = no wealth = chaos. Hierarchy is the structure of all things and began with the Big Bang. When the singularity (as in single = one thing) became the Universe of many things and thus hierarchies began. Human beings, by nature as part of the Universe of many things, form all kinds of hierarchies.
Alright, alright. Keep it simple: cash is king and he who has the gold makes the rules
Bingo
Well, in the past, those "imaginary numbers" used to be backed with actual physical resouces (i.e gold and silver), and despite fiat currency being its own issue, those people with more numbers are usually "better" than you because they made investments (in either time, education, resources, etc.), took risks, didn't let failure get in the way and most likely provided some sort of value to society or at least met some demand that you have not. All the "Muh Kim Kardashian" or "unintended consequence x,y and z" or "x exploits y" is going to change that. It's social Darwinism and the more you try to break away from the natural order and defy the basic tenets of our own evolution with pathological altuism, the worse things get.
@@KJRUSS0 careful, the estate of Ayn Rand might sue you for cribbing her 'insights' and passing them off as your own. You should at least leave a notation in your comment that you lifted your argument (with slight liberties taken by including the Kardashian reference) from the text of 'Atlas Shrugged'
The concept of 'benign economic despotism' is neither new nor particularly novel. The contention that the lion's share of a society's wealth concentrated in the hands of the few (while the many squabble over the scraps) being beneficial for said society has been rebranded, repackaged, and resold to people since the first village chieftain in the Indus Valley said to everyone else: "Screw you, Jack, I got mine."
However, the careful student of history can see a 1-to-1 correlation between the wealth gap separating the haves from the have-nots becoming irreconcilable and the steady decay and collapse, or violent disruption and realignment of the society in question.
The idea that a society's economic system cannot both provide for the common welfare while simultaneously incentivizing the talent and industry of those exceptionally talented and industrious is a myth. A myth born of rapacious greed and ruthless cruelty that has been elevated to a virtue among many in our society.
@@keiththorpe9571 I've never read Ayn Rand.
"The idea that a society's economic system cannot both provide for the common welfare while simultaneously incentivizing the talent and industry of those exceptionally talented and industrious is a myth."
Where do you get the money for said "common welfare?" You're either obtaining it through unjust taxation targeting the wealthy and the middle class, which is taking away from their ability to further invest in endevours that may otherwise fund research or create new job opportunities, or doing it by printing more fiat currency ensuring the prices of goods and services inflate while wages stay stagnant (literally the #1 factor driving wage gaps in prettymuch ever first world economy).
Then you have the dysgenic consequences on society. By taking resources away from the middle and upper classes who generally tend to be higher IQ and lower time preferenced (possesing the abilty to defer gratification) and giving it to those on the poverty line (or worse, the third world) who tend to be on the lower end of the bellcurve, you're enabling people to breed that shouldn't be breeding at the expense of people who hardly breed enough as it is. You're not fixing the problem, you're allowing it to snowball out of control. As automation in industry becomes more prominent, those are going to be the people who suffer the most (it's already been happening for decades). Furthermore, you now have a higher population of people who lack longterm planning or foresight abilities, of whom are going to just consume more resources, breed at irresponsible rates and destroy the planet further as the pool of competency to face complex societal and international challanges diminishes. This a reality that we're going to have confront one day (just look at the future projections for populations in Africa) and there will be a major humanitrian crisis for which there will be no politically correct answers to. All because people engage in feels rather than just letting Darwinism do its thing. I truly believe pathological altruism to be one of the Great Filters of the Fermi Paradox. The only "myth" is that all men are created equal.
The city format is really an implementation detail despite being presented as sort of important.
The project is really about transforming the incentives.
First heard about this way back in 2009 from zeitgeist!
Me too!!
Men too. Although I liked Addendum better
And even at that time the Venus project was already a failed cult deserted by all its members and it's supposed showcase "city" was nothing more than a handful of poorly built futuristic looking buildings, totally uninhabited and falling apart way out in the Florida swamps.
Texas Ray Your colorful speech does not trigger me dude, it was simply an idea not supported by the main stream. Just because an idea like theirs was not supported does not make it a bad idea. We socialize and nationalize certain aspects of our life we deem essential. Taking a step and applying engineering and design to illustrate how a society could better allocate resources should not be a crazy left wing idea. It’s just getting the most bang for your buck. What’s bad about doing something in the best way when it benefits everyone? Just because poor people disproportionately benefit from social programs does not make them inherently bad..
Yup and since then I’m a supporter of the Venus project
I know that this video is almost three years old, but Joe... The Venus Project is looking really good right now. Has your position on this concept remained the same?
There is an article in Forbes titled "Is The Venus Project the next stage in human evolution?" that came out Sept. 2020. Good read. Gives me hope that the world is catching on.
@Stuart One can only hope that The Great Reset = The Venus Project instead of NWO
@Vebunkd A no government, no money, no border world is not communism. It is evolution of choice.
@Vebunkd It's like taking those ideals to the next level.
@Vebunkd I mean...yes. It's a commune at it's core, but far more expanded. I'm interested in knowing what his views on it are now.
"You can grow up to be anything you want!"
"I wanna be a doctor."
"We don't need any doctors, robots do it."
"I wanna be an architect!"
"That's already taken care of."
"I wanna be a...stripper?"
"There ya go!"
Yeah, what life will we lead if there's nothing to strive for?
We just sit and make paintings?
Do you not have any ambition to do what your passionate about? There’s no need to desperately clamour for a job just so you can feel like you’re serving a purpose. You serve a purpose by using the freedom and opportunity to pursue your passion unrestricted by monetary concerns.
@@AAUTZM Let me ask you this; what do you desire? And what is desire?
Kykk One of the ways I distinguish Needs and wants is that Needs are required, wants are desired. So in the context of a way of life that could enable any “career choice” as it were, what do you desire for your life that would be possible for you in a world unrestricted by pricetags?
I really recommend watching this documentary about TVP ua-cam.com/video/Yb5ivvcTvRQ/v-deo.html It explains that in a resource-based economy, people would engage in all manner of activities - Fresco's plans include universities and study centers in every city. A resource-based economy would allow for citizens to pursue all manner of "jobs" - teachers, resource managers, engineers, designers, architects, scientists in every field, doctors (robots might diagnose illness, but unlikely they would take over for all hands-on medical work), nurses, child care workers, museum curators, counselors, artists, musicians, botanists and garden managers and instructors, librarians, problem-solvers of all types... We could also put a great focus on interstellar study and potential travel. The only jobs that would really no longer exist in a resource-based economy would be dangerous, dirty, backbreaking, and/or boring work like mining, military and police as we know them, construction, agricultural work, warehouse work, most service jobs...as well as jobs related to capitalism itself like banker, CEO, stock trader, etc.
One thing that is important to understand is that replacing human labor in these types of fields with computers and robots would free humans up to engage in deeply rewarding activities like travel, study, research, child rearing, the arts, social clubs, and other forms of social engagement. I tend to describe the Venus Project in action as something similar to Star Trek the Next Generation. Anyone who has watched that show knows that money and poverty do not exist, however, people are motivated by things far better than money - interest, love, capacity, the social good, wanting to leave a legacy, public health, etc. I think it is probably a great example of where a resource based economy could go, and what it might look like.
It's gonna be like minecraft with fully automated farms where you can just get your resources and build away. Sounds good to me.
This is how the real future society should work.
And it all begins with punching trees...
That's how it used to be hundreds of years ago. People built their own houses for their own family. You are still free to do that nobody is stopping you. But if you want things like air conditioning and solid built home you need to give resources to people that specialize in those fields etc.
So notch predicted the future.
@@breathtakingsamurai981 Their are already people that build their own house, grow their own food, build their own automated machines to grow the food etc. just like minecraft, but most people don't want to and rather get a job and they can buy cool and better things and have other people do the work
TVP is about applying science and technology to all aspects of society and becoming an emergent culture that adapts to change. Today we try to keep things as they are and protect old establishments that have been around for a long time. People even talk about bringing back old concepts today. We need to be able to move on, not cling to old concepts and traditions forever. TVP would allow us to constantly change when new ideas and realizations come about. Change is the only constant in the universe.
TVP is not about circular cities or any other design concepts that Jacque Fresco has made. It doesn't even matter if it turns out that circular cities are flawed or not, I don't know if they are. If it turns out it's not workable, we will work to figure out the most efficient kind of city we know of at that time. The future in TVP would look nothing like how Jacque presents it, it would be up to us what kind of future we build.
We wouldn't just get rid of money, prisons, police, etc. Things like that we would have to gradually outgrow the need for. I can't imagine that prisons however would be anything like how they are today. We would try and find the root causes of any undesirable behaviors in people, and help them recover, if possible.
TVP presents to us a methodology for a way of arriving at decisions, not just making them. At present, with all our technology, our capabilities of production, and everything else, it is simply not possible for politics to make the best decisions. It doesn't matter who we have out there, our world is far too complex for any group of people to manage. This is why we need computers to be set up in a way that can help us to arrive at the most appropriate decisions.
One of the greatest accomplishments of the 21st century could be the development of sea- based structures, which could potentially house universities. Here, people could study the ocean environment, marine life, acquire resources, work toward restoring reefs, and cleaning up the mess we've made to our best abilities. All this and more, while helping to relieve land-based population pressures. We may also build subterranean cities to further relieve these population pressures.
Everything will be about maximizing efficiency and utilizing clean sources of energy. If we wish to consider ourselves an intelligent species, there's no excuses for polluting our environment. Rather, we should be able to add to it. What kind of world do we want our children to be living in? Think about that.
Remember, it's not possible to use the most efficient methods, or create the most efficient products in todays society. Our market system won't allow it. It calls for constant consumption in order to maintain itself. This is why we are designing products to break down, wasting resources, so that businesses can continue to make sales. Will it ever end? The world may never know.
I strongly recommend anyone interested enough about The Venus Project, who cares about the future for all, go to thevenusproject.com and attempt to learn all about it. There's a lot more than what meets the eye. To all, I hope you have a great life! ☺
Luke Ellsessor how do you incentivize people to do this? If our current monetary policies won’t work, how is this accomplished? Does the moneyless society come before or after all the computers and universities on water are built? If it’s before, again, how do you get people to do it? How do you get people off this current monetary system and what do you use to replace it? I fail to see how in getting to your society there wouldn’t be a group of people telling others what to do.
The whole method of a market economy is to make the most efficient uses of scarce resources to serve limitless human desires. Producing things more valuable than it what it takes to produce them is how production processes survive. Being able to produce more than we consume is actually what makes economic growth possible, because resources need to be spared from present consumption in order to be used on building new machines, doing research, etc which may have a future payoff.
If you want to see the most monumental instances of waste in human history, look to centrally planned "economies", where the values of producers could not be influenced by the values of consumers, precisely as the Venus Project proposes to do but by different means. You'll see famous examples like in the USSR with toothbrush quotas being filled by bristleless plastic sticks, and meeting the target for nails by making uselessly massive nails since the target was specified by weight. These choices weren't directed by what people were willing to put money on (demonstrate their value in real and translatable terms), and so they became epic wastes of metal, plastic, and all the labor and energy that went into making them.
If the means proposed by Venus Project were actually much more likely to destroy human life and the environment than benefit either, isn't it worth at least considering the possibility?
@@broark88 I just made a quick internet search regarding the conditions of the earth. I read "We're disrupting the climate system. We've cleared half the tropical and temperate forests in the world. We've polluted air, water, and soil, and we can see it on a planetary scale. We're driving species extinct at a thousand times the baseline rate. We've dammed more than 60 percent of the world's rivers. What natural systems have we not fundamentally altered?"
I also made a quick search on planetary resources and read "Humans are using up the planets resources so quickly that people have used a year's worth in just seven months, experts are warning. And the rate at which we are consuming the Earth's natural resources is still speeding up."
Now when considering that we are clearly causing negative impacts on our environment, and that we are no doubt using resources faster than what the Earth can renew, the simplest and most obvious explanation to this is over-population. However it's worth noting that the carrying capacity of the earth is not a fixed number. It also has to do with how efficient we are, or rather, how efficient our 'economy' is.
So you said "The whole method of a market economy is to make the most efficient uses of scarce resources to serve limitless human desires." But based on the information I quoted above, it appears to me that the efficiency of the market economy is falling far short of being sustainable in the long run. As far as limitless human desires goes, I personally feel that I can get along just fine at my current point in life with just a guitar, a skateboard, and a few good friends. I feel that unlimited human desires is an assumption being made, and being perpetuated by the current world of advertisements. Companies work extremely hard to make people feel that they need all sorts of things, all for the sake of consumption, or sales. And considering that so many people these days have been born into this culture of advertisements and consumerism, I feel the phycological effect this has on people should not be underestimated.
Going back to the point of efficiency, and based on the current state of science and technology, when I travel about and see all the "modern" houses and cars, I find it hard to believe they are actually modern at all. Are the majority of our homes actually built by the most efficient construction means known today, and out of the most efficient resources also based on their scarcity, and of the most efficient designs? Even looking at most rich people's homes they tend to look just like larger versions of middle class folk homes; at least from around where I live. When it comes to vehicles, they seem to always reach a point where it's always one thing after another, constantly needing monitoring and repair, and often it will be a pain in the ass to work on when it's really a small issue. Have we not figured out better designs for our motor vehicles or homes after all this time of technology improving at an ever increasing rate? It seems that there is a different motive that is getting in the way, which is profit. Profit seems to always be coming before efficiency and sustainability, because if our vehicles were sustainable and lasted perhaps a lifetime, well there wouldn't be so much business making money off the constant repair of our vehicles. I wonder how much resources we have wasted on all the things that have been deliberately designed to break down, in order to assure the cycle of consumption and profit to continue.
So I guess I feel that market economies are even a threat to human life and the environment and there seems to be no shortage of evidence that our methods are unsustainable and harmful and that we need to change the way we operate fast.
So what if The Venus Project don't have it quite right either, well surely there must be some designs or blueprints we can take from it. Maybe combine them with other ideas and designs from other organizations with the same goal. How many times my mind has been blown by the unbelievable designs of Jacque Fresco is unreal, and will be forever unmatched. RIP Jacque, he will never be forgotten.
V for Vegan I really think that building a hybrid between capitalism and resource based is the answer to the transition. Have the first cities be filled with really smart people and the city itself would profit in the larger capitalism society to take care of itself and further research how to multiply efficiently with the goal of becoming more and more without money. Then it would slowly make the old system obsolete.
Luke Ellsessor I don’t disagree with TVP and their ideals, I disagree with a cult like following. Having meetings, having a hierarchy, those things destroy the good ideas this group tries to portray
Joe Scott 2017: Capitalism's kinda working.
Joe Scott 2020: Is this the end of Capitalism?
Tru
It never worked, "kinda works" could be maybe said about times when people didn't understand anything and blind overproduction was better than underproduction, but all in all it is simply an ongoing genocide, Joe just completely ignored the other statistics and even used some that are obviously fake, they completely contradict all of the other statistics, if you are interested, Peter Joseph presented all of them over the time with the sources and names of of the people who did the investigations, he completely ignored what only the so called externalities mean for example, that since 1970 68% of biodiversity has been eradicated, that every year around 18 million people die only from the direct consequences of the externalities, the resource overshoot, that caused the climate catastrophe and so on, if he had looked up all the statistics he would have realized that the damage this system is doing is comparable to a nuclear apocalypse and I'm not exaggerating. There is only one other thing that is comparable to the monetary/market system and it is cancer, it also grows until its own foundation of existence, the host is dead. Markets are a delusion like money is, there is only logistics, what is called market is in fact the distribution part of logistics, self-service warehouses and open-air storages and money is just virtual numbers, give the poor people who suffer this delusions a computer in their room with padded walls and then they can type all kinds of numbers into it. But what we need is simply shopping list app that are connected via management systems like SAP to production and distribution, some basic calculations and algorithms calculate the numbers of production and the most efficient way to do the production and distribution and that's all, the whole monetizing process is just absurd, such a waste of time, energy, around 1,000 terawatthours a year, intellectual capacities of the people that waste their life on this nonsense, it's unbelievable that an intelligent being couldn't see this absurdity.
Economics work this way:
Needs assessments, assessment of the necessary means to satisfy the needs, ongoing calculations of efficiency, getting resources, production and distribution.
The monetary/market system works this way:
Profit expectations, speculations about numbers of production based on the success of marketing and sales, blind mass production and distribution, if the profit expectations are satisfied and people buy it, the production goes on, if not the production is stopped. So the needs don't really matter, because it is offer and demand and not needs and availability like in an economy, this means if people don't have enough or no money and so don't consume, they have no needs, they simply don't exist for this system. And it is even worse, we can't change anything within this system, like solving societies problems, climate catastrophe, poverty and so on, because this system needs this problems to keep and create jobs, the system is basically a consumption cycle, if one of the factors become less, the system breaks down, like if unemployment rises and people's incomes become less and they consume less, the demand becomes less and so production and distribution become less and so more jobs disappear and so people's incomes shrink more and so consumption becomes less and so demand becomes less and so production and distribution become less and so jobs become less and so incomes become less and so consumption become less and so demand become less... I think you got the point, now imagine crime becomes less, what is about the jobs of policemen, lawyers etc.? If there will be a cure for cancer, what does it mean for the people who live of producing meds for cancer treatment and caring about the patients?
As said, it is pure insanity that a human being can defend this system, you must have a massive lack of intelligence, don't even need knowledge to understand that, just the pure ability to understand anything.
@「 Deadpoppin 」 Get some psychological help, you need it, don't even realize how you represent your parents with your behavior.
R.I.P. Jacques
The first thing GOD gave man is work therefore capitalism is inherent to human nature
@@divasbraidz I hope you are not a lawyer.
Diva Hair you’re a moron.
@@divasbraidz Atheist, so try again but the first thing God gave humankind was paradise in the Garden of Eden.
@@divasbraidz People have been working loooooong before there was capitalism. It's not like we need it in order to work.