Tarkus was my way into unusual time signatures when I was thirteen. Years later, I was playing and dancing to Balkan folk music and learning jazz rythmic concepts as a multi- woodwind player. I didn't hear Tarkus for forty years. I laughed when I heard it again as I realised how much I'd benefited from it.
I was deeply moved by ELP on an emotional and intellectual level, but like you, I discovered the Mahavishnu Orchestra shortly after I bought my first ELP records. The MO reached me on an emotional and intellectual level as well, but they had "the funk" and that reached a visceral physical place that no other music could touch at the time. Coming back to ELP after a few years revitalized my love of the band for what they were when I no longer judged them for what they weren't.
My gateway drug to ELP in the mid 1970s was Trilogy. I loved it. I soon had all the albums and eventually I bought Love Beach. I did not hate love beach. I may have been the only one. I love the epic sci-fi Tarkus and Karnevil 9. I remember tripping to the 1974 triple live album. That album's version of Aqua Tarkus on side three was mind blowing. Around 1982 I started to lose interest. I started getting into the early 70s music of McCoy Tyner, Miles Davis and other esoteric jazz artists including some local San Francisco Bay Area bands that only had a local record deal and they may have been lucky to sell 100 albums or so. When we moved into the CD era, I bought Trilogy and the First Album. I was married and Take a Pebble and From the Begging were good tunes to woo the missus with. My job moved me to Southern California in 2005. I recall listening to Trilogy then and it didn't do it for me for some reason. Then Keith Emmerson took his life. I purchased the Live Album Welcome Back My Friends... on iTunes and suddenly I could not get enough of them. I found Tarkus at a garage sale on CD, I downloaded Brain Salad Surgery and Pictures at an exhibition and was listening to it constantly. We're back in the Bay Area now. I've since invested in a turntable. I had given most of my vinyl to my nephew in the early 2000s but I'm trying to rebuild the collection. I have found ELP's first five albums used, in relatively good condition for reasonable prices... almost 1970s prices. It's come full circle and I find myself once again not being able to get enough.
Catching up late with this. Ozzy was spot on the first time: "Oh no, please, God elp me!" ELP were a cirkus act. "Worship!", they cried, "I'm proggy", and critics sharpened their teeth…
You don,t need to like ,m but then again you,ll miss all these beautiful highly original melodies! Just take a song like "take a pebble" there,s so much feeling in there, whether it,s the piano, acoustic guitar, the brushes or Greg,s voice and lyrics. It still today sounds just fabulous and unique, it,s folky classical and even somewhat jazzy.
The first true prog-rock record was a 1968 release by Keith Emerson's first band, the Nice. It's called Ars Longa Vita Brevis (art is long, life is short). It includes an orchestral interpretation of J.S. Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 3, an extended piece by Sibelius and the Leonard Bernstein song America from the musical West Side Story. Give it a listen some time. I loved it at the time of its release, playing it every day for a year.
Yes I agree...I'm just not so keen on Jerusalem and Benny The Bouncer on that album. Perhaps teenage me didn't get the joke. Now it seems quite funny Benny is on that album
My older brother bought their first album when it came out and I loved it. I still love it and for me, in retrospect, it is their finest moment. He took me to see them in 1971 at Greens Playhouse in Glasgow. They did two shows in one night and because I was 13 we went to the 'matinee'. They were brilliant. I couldn't believe how good Carl Palmer was on such a tiny kit. Nothing was left un hit!
I'm a huge Emerson Lake and Palmer fan since they began in 1970. From a musicianship standpoint nobody comes close. My favorite album was trilogy Follow by pictures at an exhibition. Especially the Endless Enigma. Talk about complexity on keyboards and drums and a voice like an angel.
5:10 King Crimson were a huge influence on Genesis. (I’ve interviews from the time in which Phillips, Gabriel and especially Hackett say so. They use to rehearse with a poster of ITCOTCK an then Larks). And so were the Nice. In fact, “the Knife”… the title is in reference to the Nice.
What a great video. Bill Bruford is my favorite drummer and the first drummer I saw in ’95 with double trio Crim. But Keith Emerson is my favorite musician. In my view he invented 'Prog' as a composer, arranger and player. His work between ’68-’75 is highly experimental, visionary and absolute idiosyncratic. And puts him in place with the likes of Zappa, Davis, Hendrix as gamechangers in music. Great points about ELP as an pioneering and innovative band and players. Before ‘Prog’ became mainstream as a genre and Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd became mainstream bands. By beginning of ‘71 ELP as a touring band already had ‘Tarkus’, Pictures etc in their set. With all the props and showcases. And by touring the globe madly and constantly evolving they made the minds ready for all things to come regarding ‘Prog’ - the good and the bad. Their live show especially lend very well to huge arena’s and stadiums because of the extreme dynamics between the players and their music. From a ‘Hoedown’ to a ‘Karn Evil’, from a ‘Pebble’ to a ‘Sheriff’ and everything in between. The entertainment factor made why millions of people came to the shows and bought the albums. And for the first seven years till ‘Works’ it was good fun. And that’s how I view ELP, as a great fun band! I highly recommend this book (elpbook.com) and this DVD (www.cherryred.co.uk/product/fanfare-for-the-uncommon-man-the-official-keith-emerson-tribute-concert-2cd-2dvd-edition) as essential awe-inspiring musthaves. I came to your channel through Sea of Tranquility and really enjoy your video’s. Very intriguing view about ‘Prog’ as an cultural form and English esthetic. From the Beatles to the Sex Pistols and beyond. I’m currently in the Miles Davis and Frank Zappa rabbit hole Thanks!
I listen to jazz, funk and even a lot of classical and 20th century so called contemporary music. I agree with what you say about KC and Yes . Still…they turn me on (EL&P , I mean).
I challenge anyone to start with all their first 5 albums and listen carefully to each. It’s been a long time for most people. I believe you will come out realizing they are incredible, and the best at their musicianship. Lake’s voice is amazing, Keith’s keyboards are unparalleled, Carl’s percussion is top also. Many bands have some good talent in each area, but for me Rush’s singer is an acquired taste. Same with Yes, and Genesis. Take the challenge and refresh your memories. It’s just my opinion of course.
I absolutely agree. Geddy Lee and Jon Anderson are great singers, but Anderson's voice gives me a headache. The higher prog voices just don't appeal to me like Greg Lake's gorgeous, resonant baritone. When he said Lake's voice "grates," I was stunned. Look up any song Lake sings on, and the commenters say he is their favorite voice, the voice of prog, the golden voice, etc. Other than a few songs where he's really straining on those high notes (in particular, A Time and a Place), I adore his voice. (He was always butting heads with Emerson about the key.)
@@kathyratino962 Yes! Have you listened to any of “ Just JP” reactions? He’s the most thoughtful and thorough one I follow. His reactions to ELP are great. He actually breaks the songs down after his initial reaction. He says he’s in love with Lakes voice.
@@kathyratino962 great description of Greg Lake singing young lady. Thanks. I've been listening to them since their Inception in 1970 I've always appreciated Lakes vocals over anyone else. Peace and love.
Had a life long love of ELP, since I heard BSS and trilogy, they always added a fun song in amongst the progtastic work. They are not for everyone, but were ahead of their time imo. Fair video Andy.
I tried 3 times this morning to write a comment to this video. It was highly interesting to watch you rmorph back into an ELP fan. Perhaps the new appreciation will remain just that. Its funny how your emotional state is affected by Yes and less so with ELP. I'm the opposite. I started to listen to Tales from Topographic Oceans but did not have the time. I believe this is an album someone used to play and my sense is that I liked it. So tomorrow I will make time to hear it in its entirety. Looking back, I can see how being exposed to ELP and then hearing the Mahavishnu Orchestra made it an easy leap for me. This video was just absolutely incredible to view. Your honesty and being straight with your fans can only be admired.
I honestly wasn't as taken by Mahavishnu as many of my peers were. It could have been because I was listening to Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor a lot (and Zappa) and I heard more interesting things from them and earlier fusion than from MO (I loved early Tony Williams Lifetime). I saw MO live and was impressed but I had heard better unison in King Crimson, for instance. So, they really didn't blow me away. I was moving towards more freedom than the MO and RTF Branch of fusion had to offer. Plus, there were SO many bands that copied Mahavishnu. ELP were, at least, one of a kind.
Elp and Zappa got me listening to classical music. Pictures of an exhibition for a starter. Later Tarkus and all of it. I don't listen to it every day, but glad I can play a cd of them, once in a while.
Music is so subjective, it's as infinitely varied as people themselves. Andy, I found your video on ELP fascinating & I can see where you're coming from. For me, I got into them in '77 when I heard "Fanfare" on the radio, it's ironic that in addition to say Blues variation from "Pictures" that they're probably the only ELP pieces that really groove. Looking at the classic ensemble stuff for me it's as if Keith is the conductor & the major part of the orchestra, Carl is the percussion section & Greg the double bass section & vocal soloist. Keith is the driving force both compositionally & instrumentally, when I listen to them it's like he's saying "Hang on to your hats guys it's gonna be a hell uv a ride". It's like a roller coaster ride, not everyone likes them, but for those who do, boy are they exhilarating! Cheers
I love your take on punk having prog elements... I think you nailed it! And yes, ELP were pompous... one of the reasons I love them, they had no borders... Emerson was a hoot (think knives and B3s) and Palmer with the steel drum set. I was at the concert in Anaheim that became "Welcome back..." The Quad speakers swirling around the audience at the end of "Karn Evil 9" was awesomeness!!!
“The Barbarian”, a direct translation of a Bartok piece with added drumming and bass distortion, from the 1st album...holds up as being super heavy and exciting to me and I think is my favourite “rock band interpretation of a classical piece” I’ve ever heard
Really if you think about it the barbarian was probably the first-ever all of what became known as Progressive metal in rock music. A lot of people don't know they have some critics describe that first album as a heavy metal album and ELP as heavy metal. Of course that was before the term progressive rock was ever used.
@@edljnehan2811 I think you might be right that it is a contender for 1st progressive metal....The other one that comes to mind is 21st century Schizoid man
@@ericmckayrq you're welcome. That's one of those albums that I realized they are off the chain musicianship wise. Also even though it's live you can almost count that as one of their Studio albums and I do.
ELP is one of those bands I really have to be in the right mood for, but when I am, I fall in love with them all over again. I still have a vivid memory of going into the Atari Company Store circa 1981, doing my regular search through the aisles of Warner (and Warner-related) records, and finding the 3-disc "Welcome Back My Friends..." in stock for a bit over $7US. In the four years I worked there, both my record collection and my musical tastes expanded dramatically. My bank account...not so much. One of my biggest regrets though was the one time they got in the 10-disc set of Keith Jarrett's Koln Concerts, I balked at the price (just under $30).
Regarding Carl Palmer as an drummer. I cite Bonham, Bruford, Porcaro, Collins, Copeland as some of my absolute favorites. But can you imagine Keith Emerson walking in saying to you as a 20 year youngish 'hey, what do you think of ideas like Tarkus, Pictures, Toccata, Karn Evil, Pirates etc?' It takes an huge amount of fearlessness to say yes let's do this no matter what. That's the thing I cherish about Carl Palmer. His versatility, creativity and enthusiasm to tackle Emerson's mad ambitious ideas. To put everything and every style into it. And subsequently eloborate your basic jazzkit with gongs, timps, drum synthesizers etc. He is absolute essential in people mind's to what a prog drummer is. Excessive kit, fast and super technical playing and soloing. Without Palmer no Peart, Portnoy etc. I still can listen to Barbarian, Pebble, Tarkus, Pictures, Enigma, Toccata, Karn Evil, Pirates, his Concerto for Percussion, his Welcome Back/Tank solo and being totally mesmerized and energised by it. It's the creativity factor I take from him as a drummer. My personal favorite Carl Palmer drumplaying is the Pirates Albert Hall version: ua-cam.com/video/cYT9DOuxN7s/v-deo.html Technical, symphonic and grooving(!) :)
You are right, ELP ploughed a lot of their money back into their shows and production which has to be admired. In a documentary Keith stated that years after the Works Tour, Greg and Carl said: “ We’d be millionaires by now if it wasn’t for your orchestra.”
I had a similar issue with ELP but not in the past few years I’ve re-learned to love them. Yes they became pompous, but when they were good , they were amazing. Trilogy and Tarkus are my favorite albums but my favorite song is Take a Pebble. Both beautiful and intense.
Thank you for doing this I've been a fan since 1970 and before that the nice. ELP the musicians musicians whether you like them or not you cannot deny their virtuosity. Really second to none. Their musicianship competition would be more with the great Fusion bands like mahavishnu Orchestra and Return to Forever instead of rock groups.
I think that what set Keith Emerson, Carl Palmer (and the Nice drummer Brian Davison) apart from their peers was that their 1st love was Jazz and they only started playing RnB to get regular paid work in the mid 60's with the likes of Gary Farr & the T Bones, Chris Farlowe and the Thunderbirds, The Mark Leeman Five and the VIPs. It's probably another rather broad strokes argument to place contemporaries like Jon Lord, Dave Greenslade, Graham Bond, Billy Ritchie, Rod Argent, Vincent Crane and Don Shin as having served their Prog apprenticeships via RnB. Just for clarity: ELP and the Nice are my two favourite Prog bands of all time.
An inside view of ELP, mainly P! Obviously, I grew up practicing along with Carl who I copied at the start of my interest in playing drums and then saw Carl aged 18 playing on Top Of The Pops with The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown, miming to Fire and that was it. My own future was set! That video is here: ua-cam.com/video/en1uwIzI3SE/v-deo.html Late I was also watching ELP and Mahavishnu Orchestra live in concert Listen to each ELP album as they came out was a great period and actually playing Rondo with ELP on an Encore at The Odeon New St, Birmingham featuring a double drum solo at the request of Greg and Keith who came and watched me, aged 15, playing my Rogers Drum Kit set up in my bedroom at my parents house before the Odeon show. Carl was 20 when ELP formed and Carl was basically rocks version of Buddy Rich ~ in those days. I felt a surge of pride - ( or maybe ego!) - when Buddy Rich named Carl along with Steve Gadd and Harvey Mason as his favourite young drummers back in 1986 - Hear that Buddy Rich interview here. About 16 minutes in. ua-cam.com/video/WD19S4FDiL8/v-deo.html - and when Ringo was happy to say to Carl, when they met recording with their separate bands at an LA studio, that he had brought Carl’s Stainless Steel kit for himself and Zac to play on. Back in the day Carl’s popularity went from Buddy Rich to Ringo from The Beatles. I watched as Billy Cobham came along and his jazz/ soul/r&b groove turned heads as happened to you Andy. It happened to me too!! Back in the day it is hard to say what an impact Billy Cobham had when the 1st Mahavishnu Orchestra LP came out. Going back to P - At 72 Carl is still one of the hardest working drummers I know and he has never followed the drumming trends of each decade, Cobham, Gadd, Vinnie, Weckl etc. He follows what he has always liked and in a way that gives him his own pushing fast style like it or not. All the above views are completely biased!! Out of my respect for Carl!! Even though I play nothing like Carl or Nephew, Ian Palmer, I would not have a life long career playing drums, without big brothers influence and my Dad who also played semi pro and sang! Carl is also such a motivated person too, which I think is why the likes of Keith Emerson liked working with Carl!! For anyone who is interested here is an old 2006 UA-cam of a Carl, Ian and myself playing a family drum solo. This was full on no holds barred 3 way solo!! ua-cam.com/video/KsJa1tphJcQ/v-deo.html Also The update guitar version of Trilogy from 2022 I enjoy. Carl playing his own pushing way with Paul Bielatowicz - Guitar Simon Fitzpatrick - Bass ua-cam.com/video/zZwgpFX4uwQ/v-deo.html Thanks for the informative videos, Andy. Respect! 😊
@@kathyratino962 The first time Carl was 15 with a local band called The Craig on Thank Your Lucky Stars. 🖖Saturday 19th March 1966 Host: Jim Dale Long John Baldrey, Fran & Alan, The Craig, The Shadows, The Walker Brothers, Dave Berry, Valerie Masters, Chris Rayburn
Just for the record...I know Steve and I was hoping he would chime in on this one. I must add to this thread is also a really really fantastic drummer. In my younger days, before I knew Steve I used to watch him play when he was the house drummer at Ronnie Scott's in Birmingham. Steve seemed to be able to play any style at the drop of a hat, and he is a consumate jazz drummer. A few years later he taught me how to play a Songo on drums, and this opened up a whole new way of playing for me. He is also a fantastic teacher and has mentored so many incredible drummers out there. Steve's nephew, Ian Palmer is also a wonderful drummer...it is quite a drumming dynasty. All the best to Steve x
I think Carl Palmer's drumming on Luckyman is brilliant. Restrained, as he guides the song along. I marvel at it. Reminds me of Bakers wonderful drumming on Can't find my way Home.
Please indulge my little comment here regarding amazing amazing drumming moments. One. 5.15 into endless enigma pt1 the double kick!!!. And two. Mahavishnu lost trident LP. Song called I wonder. Double kick also sparingly couple of times. The less is more of the double kick. So powerful to me!
Pretty sure I discovered ELP after the Blue Devils drum corps performed Karn Evil 9 in 1984. Very nice to hear your kind words about them. You are right, it might be time to start re-listening to ELP and appreciate them again.
Punk and the Punk bands were not rejecting Prog, they were brought up and listened to the shite in the charts: ABBA, Brotherhood of Man, Disco (Grease, Saturday Night Fever etc.) any number of top 30 singles. Most Prog bands were album bands and very rarely, if ever had a single that entered the top 30. As for what defines Prog, the key division between Prog and Rock (heavy or otherwise), is the division between a band and music lead by keyboards or guitar. ELP are Hendrix without a guitar.
Huge influence...personally from 71 to 73 they were state of the art...I really loved them and if people talked shit they were jealous....by the album works they were a fractured band..I wished they were mentioned more..just think young teenagers were totally in to them...boy have things 😔 changed...sad
A lot of people don't know but they were generally considered to be the standard of excellence in musicianship that other bands were measured by in the early 1970s. When I read that I told myself that I just have to start listening to them more. I'd like your comment brother.
I picked up the first album from ELP, and loved it. Then they did _"Tarkus",_ and the story behind the main song just lost me. I had friends who bought it and loved it, but I never bought it. Years later I bought _"Works volume 1",_ and loved some songs and wasn't so keen on others. But on the whole I liked the album. And then the next ELP I bought was _"Love Beach",_ and there they really completely lost me. I had plenty of other albums to listen to. Steven Wilson talks about the difference between "musicians" and "entertainers". I think that ELP started out as great musicians, and turned into entertainers. And I think that most entertainers lose their audience after awhile, because they don't connect with people at quite the same emotional level.
I remember reading in either NME or Melody Maker in the early 70’s, that viewed ELP, Yes and Genesis as “pomp rock”, probably where the inverted snobbery started.
Great video! I don’t think ELP were ”pretentious” since that word implies you pretend to be something that you’re not. ELP were just that good and clearly delivered the goods. If anything they were just very ambitious. It’s true they were ”pompous” at times, but that can be said of most heavy metal bands with big scene shows and a ”larger than life” attitude. Pink Floyd seldom get accused of being ”pretentious” although they are much more deserving of the epiteth. I love PF but they have a tendency where the presentation often outshines the quality (and quantity) of the actual song writing.
I loved that ELP actually felt compelled to impress the hell out of you. I went through a short period in 1973 in which I liked KC and hated ELP... but that was a short period of time. I saw MO and agree that they were tremendous...but I od'd from overexposure. Fusion was great but bothered me a bit in that it seemed too formulaic. I think there was a time when lots of fusion bands sounded very similar, at least to me AT THAT TIME. But when you get distance, you realize how good they were. ELP, I think you pegged it well, never lost sight of the idea that they were entertainers as well as artists. That made them a bit low brow to some. I have also known people (like critic Charles Shaar Murray) to dislike Prog and ELP in particular, as bourgeoisie- artistic aspirations, which was also a pretense adopted by some U.S. critics. I am circling around to liking Mahavishnu Orchestra again, but (this is a small criticism), the original group's first two albums were amazing but sounded so much alike, only Jan Hammer changed a little with the use of the Mini-Moog. Then I heard Larry Coryell live and I just liked how Larry executed the idea better. And Magma made it more interesting (which is why I consider Magma fusion). And I heard a lot of MO in early Soft Machine, without the startling guitar work that Holdsworth brought later. The period between 1967 and 1977 was an embarrassment of riches--and a great many in the rock critical fraternity were incredibly stupid about what gifts they were getting. There was a political reaction against Prog and Fusion for not being pure. The critical community was pathetic.
Excellent....!!! I loved them at the time, even saw them on Brain Salad Surgery tour... Can't listen to them now..apart from Trilogy...(like you!!)...I have the cds....but think it was "of it's time".....just hasn't aged as well as others....(to me!). Brilliant musicians, but to me the music has dated unlike a lot of others.....Gong, Camel, Focus.....who I can listen to anytime....
Wow a lot of different opinions. I've learned people talking about rock and roll is fairly subjective compared to when people graduate and learn about classical music. When you get into classical music you start to look at rock and roll a lot differently. Frankly, ELP does stand the test for me. Emerson's compositions are on a whole other level.
I tend to agree with you. Emerson was beyond Yes and Wakeman both in composition and playing (knowing that Howe was the key to Yes" long form compositions).
@@garygomesvedicastrology absolutely right on Gary. A lot of people are not aware of this. Steve Howe actually filled-in with the nice on occasion and absolutely loved Keith Emerson. He bragged how the two of them used to dual back and forth on their instruments.
I saw all of those bands that you mentioned live in the early 70s , and throughout the 70s . The most entertaining concerts in those days were put on by Jethro Tull and ELP . They had outrageous and exhilarating stage shows . Yes and Genesis also put on good shows back then , if not quite as entertaining . I've always been an ELP fan , and remain so to this day . Cheers !!
For that hot minute when you were speaking the pretentiousness of ELP, I imagined Peter Gabriel (with his head inside a triangle) and Rick Wakeman with the Knights of the Round Table burst into your room. Both were wearing glorious flowing capes. 😅
I partly learned to play drums listening to ELP. I know I listened to them millions of times, so that’s probably why I don’t listen to them anymore. Just grew out of it. If I come upon a song in my long playlist on my iPhone I tend to skip it rather quickly. Maybe it’s because of the incredible recording quality of now compared to the 70’s. In my teens, I wasn’t quite sophisticated enough to understand what was changing in the music world. I just liked what I liked. I had one friend who thought Zappa was so much better than ELP. But Carl Palmers drumming skills and techniques resonated with me more that Zappa’s at the time. But later in life I learned to appreciate Zappa for what he did. I also played guitar in “Coffee Houses” for money using some of Greg Lakes songs. Now I am a complete amateur compared to the amazing talent I see and hear these days.
I loved ELP heard the track Karn Evil 9 and was drawn in. I've always had them as a 50/50 band for me. 50% I love and the rest I struggled with or hated. Now as I've become an old git Ive massively opened my listening borders to all sorts of genres and bands but certainly haven't mellowed my tastes. I now find a lot of the ELP stuff hard work to listen to although I did go see Carl Palmers live show a month or so ago and it was excellent. His engagement with the audience, the banter and laughs and the inclusion of the two young guys on Guitar, Bass and Chapman Stick really did get me interested again and brought a whole new twist to the music. Plus they were so enthusiastic about it too. Really great to see youngsters so into it.
King Crimson was the orginal band to define Prog.Rock...this music came out of nowhere. They were the first. Then ELP followed from other bands.They were the biggest band to see in the 70's. A tour de force.Maybe to some there music may sound dated,but I would rather listen to them to any band musical today.They were virtuoso on there instruments. They brought to the stage a game on to the performance..theatrics. They had the criticism for being over the top.But look at Lady Gaga,Madonna their stage performance is an extravagant show.Long live ELP...ps yes they did songs like Bennie the bouncer..why maybe because they wanted to appease those who said they were over the top. When they were in the top of there popularity Johnny Carson asked who was he listened to in popular music. He did not hesitate ELP..he saw them multiple times.Carl Palmer took notice of Buddy Rich drumming.
I love your statement Michael it is right on. I remember doc Severson saying the Carl Palmer was one of the greatest drummers. Buddy Rich actually took notice of Carl Palmer saying that Carl was the fastest and most precise Rock drummer had ever seen. He inspired Neil Peart. And we all know there was nobody better than Keith Emerson I mean nobody. Rick Wakeman was not even close. At least Keith Emerson gets the praise that he is due. I don't know if you remember but in the early seventies ELP were called the standard in musicianship that all other musicians were measured against. It's amazing how people forget all of this. This guy who's Channel this is you can't tell by listening to him speak if he's for or against ELP
Nice one Andy, welcome back my friend to the paradox that never ends. Yesterday I watched the SoT Prog Seat chaps discussing Trick of the Tail and Peter Gabriel's Car. It made me realise that I had for a long time dimissed Genesis and Gabriel and positively disliked them; where I was reacting to something inside my head that actually was a negative construct of my own doing. I came to realise not that long ago that my prejudices towards them and other bands and artists was just plain stupid and thereafter I was able to enjoy them. I may not like everyhting they do but I dont get hung up on the things I dont care for like I used to. Sounds like you've maybe come to a similar position with ELP. Enjoy what you like of theirs and skip what you dont, as life is too short to do otherwise. And yes Mahavishnu probably are the greatest bunch of musicians, in whichever grouping they are in, well at least in the 70's.
Sometimes one needs to sit down and re listen. I listened to Tarkus again the other day and it's a stunning piece of full on prog, and it's ahead of it's time too...and as they say...what we says in Patreon, stays in Patreon... ;)
I am in my ELP “era” as the kids say so the algorithm suggested this video. Did I just hear that Greg Lake’s voice grates? Thee Gregory Lake? Even Keith Emerson called him the man with the golden voice.
Actually, they did eventually go live on an island, hence Love Beach. :) But point taken. It was always about the music with these three. They were all obsessed with it. If you haven't already, check out the reactions/analysis of classical composer Doug Helvering. He has analyzed the scores for The Endless Enigma, Tarkus, and Keith's piano concerto and reacted to KE9, Jerusalem, Toccata, Still. . .You Turn Me On, and Benny the Bouncer on his UA-cam channel. He has also done PAAE and Trilogy on Patreon. Endless Enigma: ua-cam.com/video/9FJm2Jgousw/v-deo.html Tarkus: ua-cam.com/video/_FMjCN6jEyY/v-deo.html KE9: ua-cam.com/video/aqQzet8pYeM/v-deo.html Jerusalem, Toccata, Still. . . & Benny: ua-cam.com/video/1iJWBribOJo/v-deo.html The piano concerto is due to be posted to UA-cam today. I'll post a link when it comes through. (It's already on Patreon.)
I first heard Keith’s Moog outdo of Lucky Man when in the sick room at school - blew my head off! Saw them late 1970 in London, then again in 1973 in Stoke. Are they perfect, no, but, when they get it right few can match them, viz Tarkus, Trilogy, Fanfare for the Common Man. They vie for my favourite with Pink Floyd, Yes, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, and King Crimson, and I can never pick one. 🎉
Thank you for some valid criticisms about one of my favorite bands. I am in awe of Emerson big time, but yes, he does lead us over the garden path, and makes me ache for a break thanks to Lake. I love Lake when he reminds me of Lennon, I love languorous ballads from him, but he had no real opportunity to break out of the same old predictable mold! (Since I love 80’s music, his solo albums were a pleasant surprise.) Keep up the great work on YT. I’m now a guitar hobbyist and like the input!
Glad you like what I do...this was a strange but rewarding video where I examined my thoughts live on camera. I thought it worked well and will be doing this again...
Big ELP fan here. One thing that differentiates them from other prog bands is that they have a large American influence, not as much British/European as other prog bands.
Trilogy is my favourite ELP album too, the only I still listen to regularly these days. I loved the band when I was 13, 14, 15 but after that I listened to them less and less . . . however these days I really enjoy Keith Emerson's piano compositions and playing. I now also appreciate him purely as a composer. Back in my teens drums was my main instrument and Carl Palmer was my hero but I kinda went off him. I do love Greg Lake's voice and songs though, there's a timeless quality about them.
It's hard to get your head around just how huge ELP were in the early seventies. They were one of the biggest bands in the world, (up there with Led Zeppelin) and they could put things like "Tocatta" on their albums. They deserve credit for that. My recollection is that they peaked with Brain Salad Surgery and it was downhill from there. For me, they're in a time capsule from then and I have no desire to go back and listen again. That said, I still happily listen to King Crimson, Yes, Genesis and bands like Camel. Despite their virtuosity and my appreciation of them as musicians, as time has gone by I don't feel any connection to ELP at all. I like how you basically talk yourself into giving them another chance in this video, maybe I will too, but I don't know.
This is how huge ELP were in the 70s. At the California Jam music festival they were the headliners. They headlined over Seals and Crofts, Rare Earth, Black Oak Arkansas Earth,Wind, and Fire, The Eagles, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple. You do not headline a gig with that line up of artists by being a medium concert draw.
I paused and thought about it when you raised the question, what is it about ELP? I felt the same type of hesitation. My unconsidered, initial reason was: no guitar hero. Every great rock band needed one, I'm sure I felt in my subconscious brain. E is great, I know. But still...
Don’t forget, the first album by The Nice (plus about half of the second) featured Davy O’List on guitar; and there were only a couple of classical covers - the Sebelius and some Bach. The rest was freaky psychedelic original songs. To me it was similar to Syd Barrett Pink Floyd. Only after The Nice lost Davy O’List did they lean more heavily on covers. And even then they did the spectacular Five Bridges, which singer Lee Jackson wrote about his hometown of Newcastle (and the bridges spanning the Tyne).
My favourite is their debut album. I find the rest patchy. The only one I bought back in the day was Works and I think I was as pretentious then at 17 as the title of the album suggests, and we know that Emerson so wanted to be taken seriously by the likes of Aaron Copland and Leonard Bernstein. Their albums are some of the best sounding of all the prog bands, the way they're mixed and produced, you feel like you're in the same room with them - just brilliant.
A Bit late to comment but i know exactly why he didnt mention ELP. While researching the list he got out his ELP albums and his gaze fell upon Love Beach he was so overawed with the magnificence of the cover that he felt unworthy to utter their name.
I have seen many reaction videos to ELP. Only one was negative, and that was done by a couple who didn't like the ELP Rondo video, more because it was largely improvised. Every other reaction video I have seen has been in awe of the band and what they could accomplish. That's another element of ELP that I loved...they would often take chances other bands wouldn't or couldn't. (I was a huge Nice fan before ELP formed and was saddened the Nice disbanded, btw)
As a (Drummer) I think Carl Palmer is probably underrated I don’t hear a lot of (Drummer) talking about call I’ve been I have seen a lot of his videos and when I was younger I listen to them and I think he’s really really good technical wise showmanship wise groove pocket he has all that I just want to say PeartDisicple481
After thought: Thierry Eliez, who in September releases The Emerson Enigma, did an amazing hommage to Keith Emerson . The youtube link to pianist Thierry Eliez hommage ua-cam.com/video/jP1Ppob93dQ/v-deo.html
Thanks so much for this link. I had heard their cover of Trilogy, which is gorgeous, but the rest is an absolute joy to listen to. He is so obviously in love with the music he recreates. It's fascinating and thrilling to hear the vocals presented by such a different voice from Lake's. So worth the time to listen to straight through.
Its strange that your intro to this type of music is so connected to my own. I also sold all of my elp records. My reason was seeing them do the Tarkus tour twice at the City Hall in Newcastle March 71 and then at the Queens Theatre some months later. At 16 and hearing what seemed to me exactly the same gig. All the impov's seemed samey and the music was a straight copy. I think it may be because of these 2 gis that I got more involved with jazz, Zappa and all THAT entailed.
ELP is that crazy ex we never forget. Gave us so much, hurt us so much, shaped our character and now we KNOW that if they broke up after their live 1974 album it would have been a perfect career. Their demise was inevitable, too talented for their own good. Even King Crimson called it quits in 74....Fripp knew better :) ELP didnt do that and paid the price. WORKS 2 was a great album actually (songwriting) , vol 1. was a breakup prophecy. Great video as usual!
Fripp wasn't right; he really did n't know better. He lost control of KC in 1974 and broke up the band whenever that happened. It's historically traceable.
ELP broke up after the very costly Works Tour with the forty piece orchestra. They had to drop the Orchestra as they finished the tour. Had Keith Emerson listened to the other band members, they might have made successful commercial transitions like Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes. Gentle Giant quit largely because the pressure for airplay was too much. Greg Lake (and Carl Palmer with Asia) could make the transition. I am sure Keith could have. Fripp's post Crimson work was very uneven in impact and even quality, I think. He wasn't prescient; he backed down a bit.
ELP is a band I am hot and cold on. Can’t really listen to them CASUALLY. I will listen to the first 4-5 albums obsessively until I sort of overdose and have to put them away for months. Great band, brilliant musicians, enjoyed the video 👍
If I may I describe this in one of his earlier videos and really there is no difference. I actually consider Fusion progressive rock. It's basically made up of the same elements being fusing another type of music with rock music, quick and complex time signature changes rhythmic structures. Over-the-top lyrics and themes. Usually progressive rock is made up mostly of rock and classical music however you can always hear elements of jazz in most of the music. Fusion is basically rock music with jazz overtones well that's basically what progressive rock is with jazz and classical elements. If you listen to bands like the mahavishnu orchestra or Return to Forever there's really no difference between that and ELP and King Crimson except the former or more heavily jazz-influenced. You can also hear a lot of jazz in progressive rock for instance listen to take a pebble or better yet watch it on elps live in Switzerland video from 1970. There's plenty of jazz at the end of that song. Progressive rock and jazz-rock fusion basically all the same. I'm sure there's people that will strongly disagree with this but that's okay I would like one of them to explain to me what's different about the two. I'll bet they can't do it.
What is progressive rock basically taking rocks basic 4/4 time structure and simple rhythmic structure and advancing or progressing it by adding elements of jazz and or classical music. Hence the term progressive rock which is exactly what jazz-rock Fusion does. I just wanted to add that to simplify my earlier explanation. I don't know why people insist that there is a difference.
ELP were the first band I saw live (not quite as Back Door were the support act) - Brain Salad Surgery tour at the Empire Pool Wembley. Sort of fell out of love with them after I discovered the Mahavishnu Orchestra and the other fusion bands. IMHO 'Trilogy' and 'PAAE' are their best albums. 'The Endless Enigma' - great track. Again agree with most of what you said.
I share a lot of your views on ELP. "Trilogy" is also my favourite album. And overall even after 40 years I still find the band very enchanting and fascinating. But I also always felt three significant flaws with ELP: 1) Their lyrics, while not being bad, were never very strong, 2) they never had a great chemistry together (compared with "The Nice" for example), and 3) I've always felt that while having created some amazing music within 10 years, they never really delivered the "perfect" album, in the sense of "Close To The Edge" or "Dark Side", etc. The material is there, but somewhat spread over 5 or 6 records. And that's maybe a subconcious reason, while ELP would slip one's mind while compiling a "Prog list". Also they only had 1 album with a really outstanding cover design. But I don't want to create the impression like I want to knock them around. It was an excellent band. And I would prefer "Love Beach" to anything "Asia" ever recorded any given day.
Yep...that's about it. This has been an interesting experiment simply putting a band under the microscope and in a kind way looking at the positive and the negatives. On UA-cam it's either one or the other
I think the "perfect" album observation is very astute. There always seemed to be a song that would bring the musical voyage to a halt (are you ready eddy, benny the bouncer).
@@elecrocity I think another part of the problem was, that they all had strong personalities and at the same time slightly different ideas about music. So from the very first day they had been pulling in different directions - and it shows in the music. I remember Emerson telling the story that even at the very beginning Lake didn't want to record Tarkus, because he didn't like the excentric time signitures, while Emerson wasn't to crazy about some of the typical Lake ballads. In hindsight it's surprising the band lasted that long.
@@elecrocity and that's exactly why I take Brain Salad over let's say a Close to the Edge because of the wtf, crazy, seemingly out of place musical moment on the album. I totally understand why people don't like or even hate that kind of thing. I call it the 'And Now For Something Completely Different' factor. In my view they made 4 truly great coherent, balanced(in ELP terms) albums. The debut, Pictures, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery.
@@AlesPickar that's absolutely true. It's their weak and strong point. It makes a band really dynamic but also very attackable. And after '74 this became their downfall. It's pretty tragic that there wasn't a little bit more friendship between them. They had a lot of respect for each other but were extremely stubborn people.
Carl Palmer gets crapped on quite a bit lately. If you watch their documentary "From the Beginning", you can see footage of rehearsal for the Brain Salad Surgery album of Keith more or less giving Carl Palmer the drums and percussion parts. His playing and parts were at least, very influenced by Emerson. I don't think that Brain Salad Surgery was more self indulgent than Tales from Topographic Ocean. Keith Emerson said "What many people call pretentious, I call ambitious". Many modern prog bands have copied Yes, Genesis,etc. No one has come close to sounding like ELP. Lyrics aside, Zappa and Coltrane was everything that people accuse ELP of. Dizzy Gillespie said that "I would rather be the world's worst innovator than the world's best imitator". For me that sums up ELP.
I always wish I could ask these drummers who say Palmer didn't keep time well if they think they could have reined in Keith Emerson, who 95% of the time was like a runaway train. As he has said, it's not what he was there to do.
Greg Lake said punk was violent, and ELP was just as violent, if not more. I mean, if throwing a Hammond around and stabbing it with knives and pulling it on top of yourself and playing upside down isn't violent, what is? Makes bashing a guitar look like child's play.
I think there has been a big re-evaluation of these bands in recent years. Back in the 80s, 90s and noughties you would be laughed at if you said you were a fan of prog. It was almost a shameful thing to own up to. Since then there seems to have been an acceptance and a blossoming love of things proggy. As ever tastes change over time and there's a reaction to the inanity and simplicity and downright boringness (?? Is that a word? It is now) of modern pop music. Some 10 or 15 years ago my neice and nephew would ask their dad to play Brain Salad Surgey as it was so much more interesting than what they were getting from the radio and their peers. My nephew wanted to listen to Led Zeppelin so I ripped copies for him which he loved. But also there will always be those music fans who wish to explore and discover where music comes from.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yeah! I'd agree with that. Musicians want to improve, learn and stretch themselves. The genre was always there, underground for a while, but there all the same whilst it was deemed unfashionable.
Andy I had a similar experience with ELP, loved them when I was young but lost interest. I believe you touched on the reason briefly, at least for me ELP had That virtuoso technique but not the depths of mystery that King Crimson had or the spirituality of Yes or Mahavishnu. Those are the things that draw you in deeper and keep you engaged even all these years later, it’s the depth of mystery and spirituality that is missing for me. Would love for you to do a video on shakti and remember shakti Thanks much love videos
I too always have sort of an asterisk next to ELP's name in my head. I sense that your take is not completely dissimilar to mine. I want to think that bands like KC and Yes sort of tempered themselves by the strength of their compositional personalities. Even though Jon Anderson was undoubtedly "the skipper" the other band members were strong, virtuoso, ambitious and ego-driven enough to demand a forging of something greater than their individual selves but which was very much all of them. Same with KC. With ELP, fewer members and only two of them melodicists, I think the ambition of Emerson drove the "personality" of the band. Genius though he was, it wasn't, IMO, strong enough of a musical universe to keep me in once drawn by Lucky Man, Jerusalem or KarnEvil 9, not like a CTTE, Fragile, Larks Tongues, Starless or Lamb on Broadway, Supper's Ready, etc.. I think some might speculate that Greg Lake was too high in trait agreeableness, who knows. All due respect to the memory of Lake and Emerson.
Tarkus and Karn Evil match all the epics you mentioned, easily. Although I love King Crimson, I am always astonished at how much love Starless is given. I thought it was ok; Fracture was amazing. Plus, Lake threatened to quit the band when he heard Tarkus; the only reason it was recorded was because they had already booked studio time and they had nothing else. Lake was the least willing band member to experiment. According to Keith live-and Greg backed this up-the member most willing to try new things was Carl Palmer (and Carl wasn't with them when they said it.)
I think the thing about ELP is their music did not age nearly as well as that of most of their Prog contemporaries. One reason for that could be their particular influences-often American jazz and classical composers from the mid 20th century-just aren’t in the DNA of all the other popular music that has come since ELP split. Also their approach to incorporating Classical music often bordered on kitsch-classical hits played loud and with a beat! More interesting were Yes’s attempts at making original rock music with the emotional and formal scope of a classical symphony. And those jokey honky tonk tunes were truly terrible! At the end of the day what probably makes them seem most dated is their complete inability to catch a groove….poor Greg and Carl had their hands full just trying to keep up with Keith!
Check out reaction videos to their work. You would be surprised to see the enthusiasm for these pieces you don't think aged well. "Masterpiece" is a common descriptor.
I admire your analysis. I've recently returned to loving ELP. I think punk was more a reaction to what Led Zepplin was, although I agree with your opinion re reaction to ELP. I grew up in Johannesburg so perhaps my musical journey was different to someone from Blighty. Their music is very English
It's a bit like Zappa. There's so much goofing around that it's easy to forget just how good the music is. Their first four albums were a treat. And, unlike Uncle Frank, they are not accepted by cool people.
I've got the first four studio albums in surround sound and I love them but after that they lost it. Unlike other progressive bands of the seventies they now sound dated, so because of that, I have to be in the mood. The music of that period 67 to 79 is definitely the best for music, inventive, searching, pushing things forward. Although I'm not stuck in the past, the same cannot be said of the current artists. It definitely started going wrong when video and mtv became the thing that sold music, Zappa was spot on about that.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Also, I think most of the original progressive artists composed music that needed their skills to perform it but the music was the most important think. While ELP, felt like they were composing music that showed off their skills, their skills became the thing, music became secondary. That to me, sounds like the big difference. It's a bit like the modern prog metal artists. Bands like Between the Burried and Me, Animals as Leaders, Haken, Leprous and Dream Theater, the music is more important but it shows off their skills. Other so call prog metal bands, it's the skills that are most important, not the music. Dream Theater cross over the line on occasion.
@@garygomesvedicastrology Don't agree with that. Bands like King Crimson for example are so different it never dates. Some newer bands like Between the Buried and Me, Leprous, Black Midi, I don't think will date. Frank Zappa never dates. Some Classical music like Stravinsky, Mahler, Vaughan Williams, Cassela, Glass, Alda will never date. Some Jazz like Miles Davis, Soft Machine, Neil Ardley, Brand X, Eberhard Weber will never date. There are loads of other examples, Murcof, Autechre, Brian Eno, Roxy Music, Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, Nick Cave, Radiohead, I could go on and on. Not all music dates, if it is different to anything else it always stays original and so cannot be dated.
@@stuartraybould6433 I see we agree to disagree. I think the main point I was trying to make is that all music is of its time. I don't disagree that some music sounds timeless to you-but let's take King Crimson, for example. Starless and Elephant Talk are not technologically similar and the music from the 80s doesn't have the same freshness for me. There is certainly a preference, and lots of people argue for timelessness. I have always had a problem with that concept, personally, especially with most of the artists you used as examples. Music that has only been around for let's say 60 years? It's a bit difficult to call any of that timeless. I have no problem with you holding this idea. I just can't acknowledge it. I even have the same problem with classical music dating back 500 years. I think Soft Machine Volumes 1 and 2 are tremendous. I still love them and hear them as fresh. Concensus never impressed me. I think it's a shared illusion we accept pretty uncritically. That's just my opinion. You are entitled to your list of eternal music. I don't know for sure but I'll pass and like what I like. Go in peace!!!😀
I have exactly the inverse reaction: I love ELP, but while I appreciate some of Yes' stuff, they come across to me as overwrought and a bit like a garage band too much in love with their own sound. I do like some Yes songs (lower case "s" there), but find it difficult to get through an entire Yes album. ELP, on the other hand, I find brilliant.
Who was this video about again? Seems I can’t quite remember…😉. But seriously folks, “Fragile” was probably my first prog album, but “Tarkus” was my second. I remember dropping the needle onto side 1 and not having a clue what was going on. Never heard anything like this before. Still my favorite ELP album. I do agree with some of the other comments about not ageing well. Of all the original prog bands I probably go back to ELP the least. Not exactly sure why. And they did seem to embrace the overblown-ness of it all. The $30,000 drum set. Lake’s $10,000 Persian on-stage rug. They seemed to revel in it…good for them. I still can’t explain “Love Beach” though…
@@martinbroten9467 Was the exchange rate that different at that time? That's wild. I remember someone once calling it a "5,000-pound rug" in an interview. To someone not thinking English money, it sounded like the rug WEIGHED that much. Stories about that rug's origins are all over the place, as are many of the band members' stories. I do know a roadie used to come out on stage before they went on to vacuum the rug. One of the band's many, many "bits," although Lake says they didn't know that was happening until it had happened quite a few times.
ELP has a special, no, UNIQUE! place in my musical life. I still listen to them and love everything they've done, more or less. But I hear them streaming than more than I hear them on the CDs I have. I always loved ELP albums and still do, even though I don't really like some of what Emerson did in The Nice or a lot his cartoonish stuff (Benny the Bouncer, etc.) So, yeah I like and respect all of it. But for some reason I don't play it a lot. 😕
And i looove carl palmer current trio bands and their covers of ELP covers of little obscure classical pieces.
Like them or hate them, ELP was a huge part of my musical journey. Playing their music brings back great memories of being penniless & free !
If you have it, flaunt it.
Emerson flaunted it.
Tarkus was my way into unusual time signatures when I was thirteen. Years later, I was playing and dancing to Balkan folk music and learning jazz rythmic concepts as a multi- woodwind player. I didn't hear Tarkus for forty years. I laughed when I heard it again as I realised how much I'd benefited from it.
I love E.L.P ! The band is simply one of the biggest acts in rock history ever .
I was deeply moved by ELP on an emotional and intellectual level, but like you, I discovered the Mahavishnu Orchestra shortly after I bought my first ELP records. The MO reached me on an emotional and intellectual level as well, but they had "the funk" and that reached a visceral physical place that no other music could touch at the time. Coming back to ELP after a few years revitalized my love of the band for what they were when I no longer judged them for what they weren't.
My gateway drug to ELP in the mid 1970s was Trilogy. I loved it. I soon had all the albums and eventually I bought Love Beach. I did not hate love beach. I may have been the only one. I love the epic sci-fi Tarkus and Karnevil 9. I remember tripping to the 1974 triple live album. That album's version of Aqua Tarkus on side three was mind blowing. Around 1982 I started to lose interest. I started getting into the early 70s music of McCoy Tyner, Miles Davis and other esoteric jazz artists including some local San Francisco Bay Area bands that only had a local record deal and they may have been lucky to sell 100 albums or so.
When we moved into the CD era, I bought Trilogy and the First Album. I was married and Take a Pebble and From the Begging were good tunes to woo the missus with. My job moved me to Southern California in 2005. I recall listening to Trilogy then and it didn't do it for me for some reason. Then Keith Emmerson took his life. I purchased the Live Album Welcome Back My Friends... on iTunes and suddenly I could not get enough of them. I found Tarkus at a garage sale on CD, I downloaded Brain Salad Surgery and Pictures at an exhibition and was listening to it constantly.
We're back in the Bay Area now. I've since invested in a turntable. I had given most of my vinyl to my nephew in the early 2000s but I'm trying to rebuild the collection. I have found ELP's first five albums used, in relatively good condition for reasonable prices... almost 1970s prices. It's come full circle and I find myself once again not being able to get enough.
Catching up late with this. Ozzy was spot on the first time: "Oh no, please, God elp me!"
ELP were a cirkus act. "Worship!", they cried, "I'm proggy", and critics sharpened their teeth…
You don,t need to like ,m but then again you,ll miss all these beautiful highly original melodies! Just take a song like "take a pebble" there,s so much feeling in there, whether it,s the piano, acoustic guitar, the brushes or Greg,s voice and lyrics. It still today sounds just fabulous and unique, it,s folky classical and even somewhat jazzy.
The first true prog-rock record was a 1968 release by Keith Emerson's first band, the Nice. It's called Ars Longa Vita Brevis (art is long, life is short). It includes an orchestral interpretation of J.S. Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 3, an extended piece by Sibelius and the Leonard Bernstein song America from the musical West Side Story. Give it a listen some time. I loved it at the time of its release, playing it every day for a year.
Listening to Karn Evil 9 suite today is still a musical shock !
Harmonically incredible ...mixing baroque and Bartok
Yes I agree...I'm just not so keen on Jerusalem and Benny The Bouncer on that album. Perhaps teenage me didn't get the joke. Now it seems quite funny Benny is on that album
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer sometimes Keith could play pure bebop licks like Oscar Peterson and Bud Powell ...
My older brother bought their first album when it came out and I loved it. I still love it and for me, in retrospect, it is their finest moment. He took me to see them in 1971 at Greens Playhouse in Glasgow. They did two shows in one night and because I was 13 we went to the 'matinee'. They were brilliant. I couldn't believe how good Carl Palmer was on such a tiny kit. Nothing was left un hit!
Trilogy is my favorite album (and song) by ELP. The whole album is breathtaking. ♥
100% agree !
I'm a huge Emerson Lake and Palmer fan since they began in 1970. From a musicianship standpoint nobody comes close. My favorite album was trilogy Follow by pictures at an exhibition. Especially the Endless Enigma. Talk about complexity on keyboards and drums and a voice like an angel.
The Crimson King in the court…Oh what a lucky man he was!
5:10 King Crimson were a huge influence on Genesis. (I’ve interviews from the time in which Phillips, Gabriel and especially Hackett say so. They use to rehearse with a poster of ITCOTCK an then Larks). And so were the Nice. In fact, “the Knife”… the title is in reference to the Nice.
'From The Beginning' is a delightful song which I still like to hear from time to time because it's ELP at their most restrained for the entire song.
I agree, when they hold back they are sublime
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer yeah even guitar work on tarkus is so tasty hehe
What a great video. Bill Bruford is my favorite drummer and the first drummer I saw in ’95 with double trio Crim. But Keith Emerson is my favorite musician. In my view he invented 'Prog' as a composer, arranger and player. His work between ’68-’75 is highly experimental, visionary and absolute idiosyncratic. And puts him in place with the likes of Zappa, Davis, Hendrix as gamechangers in music. Great points about ELP as an pioneering and innovative band and players. Before ‘Prog’ became mainstream as a genre and Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd became mainstream bands. By beginning of ‘71 ELP as a touring band already had ‘Tarkus’, Pictures etc in their set. With all the props and showcases. And by touring the globe madly and constantly evolving they made the minds ready for all things to come regarding ‘Prog’ - the good and the bad. Their live show especially lend very well to huge arena’s and stadiums because of the extreme dynamics between the players and their music. From a ‘Hoedown’ to a ‘Karn Evil’, from a ‘Pebble’ to a ‘Sheriff’ and everything in between. The entertainment factor made why millions of people came to the shows and bought the albums. And for the first seven years till ‘Works’ it was good fun. And that’s how I view ELP, as a great fun band! I highly recommend this book (elpbook.com) and this DVD (www.cherryred.co.uk/product/fanfare-for-the-uncommon-man-the-official-keith-emerson-tribute-concert-2cd-2dvd-edition) as essential awe-inspiring musthaves.
I came to your channel through Sea of Tranquility and really enjoy your video’s. Very intriguing view about ‘Prog’ as an cultural form and English esthetic. From the Beatles to the Sex Pistols and beyond. I’m currently in the Miles Davis and Frank Zappa rabbit hole Thanks!
Thanks for those kind comments. And I agree...KE is a prog pioneer in the same league as Fripp
I listen to jazz, funk and even a lot of classical and 20th century so called contemporary music. I agree with what you say about KC and Yes . Still…they turn me on (EL&P , I mean).
I challenge anyone to start with all their first 5 albums and listen carefully to each. It’s been a long time for most people. I believe you will come out realizing they are incredible, and the best at their musicianship. Lake’s voice is amazing, Keith’s keyboards are unparalleled, Carl’s percussion is top also. Many bands have some good talent in each area, but for me Rush’s singer is an acquired taste. Same with Yes, and Genesis. Take the challenge and refresh your memories. It’s just my opinion of course.
I absolutely agree. Geddy Lee and Jon Anderson are great singers, but Anderson's voice gives me a headache. The higher prog voices just don't appeal to me like Greg Lake's gorgeous, resonant baritone. When he said Lake's voice "grates," I was stunned. Look up any song Lake sings on, and the commenters say he is their favorite voice, the voice of prog, the golden voice, etc. Other than a few songs where he's really straining on those high notes (in particular, A Time and a Place), I adore his voice. (He was always butting heads with Emerson about the key.)
@@kathyratino962
Yes! Have you listened to any of “ Just JP” reactions? He’s the most thoughtful and thorough one I follow. His reactions to ELP are great. He actually breaks the songs down after his initial reaction. He says he’s in love with Lakes voice.
@@brucebrown73 I am familiar with Justin, yes. He has reacted to many ELP songs.
@@brucebrown73 Justin does a great job
@@kathyratino962 great description of Greg Lake singing young lady. Thanks. I've been listening to them since their Inception in 1970 I've always appreciated Lakes vocals over anyone else. Peace and love.
Had a life long love of ELP, since I heard BSS and trilogy, they always added a fun song in amongst the progtastic work. They are not for everyone, but were ahead of their time imo. Fair video Andy.
I tried 3 times this morning to write a comment to this video. It was highly interesting to watch you rmorph back into an ELP fan. Perhaps the new appreciation will remain just that. Its funny how your emotional state is affected by Yes and less so with ELP. I'm the opposite. I started to listen to Tales from Topographic Oceans but did not have the time. I believe this is an album someone used to play and my sense is that I liked it. So tomorrow I will make time to hear it in its entirety.
Looking back, I can see how being exposed to ELP and then hearing the Mahavishnu Orchestra made it an easy leap for me.
This video was just absolutely incredible to view. Your honesty and being straight with your fans can only be admired.
I honestly wasn't as taken by Mahavishnu as many of my peers were. It could have been because I was listening to Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor a lot (and Zappa) and I heard more interesting things from them and earlier fusion than from MO (I loved early Tony Williams Lifetime). I saw MO live and was impressed but I had heard better unison in King Crimson, for instance. So, they really didn't blow me away. I was moving towards more freedom than the MO and RTF Branch of fusion had to offer. Plus, there were SO many bands that copied Mahavishnu. ELP were, at least, one of a kind.
@@garygomesvedicastrology ELP we’re very unque. The best prog band IMO.
Elp and Zappa got me listening to classical music. Pictures of an exhibition for a starter. Later Tarkus and all of it.
I don't listen to it every day, but glad I can play a cd of them, once in a while.
I like what I like! F@$K the critics! No one tells me what to listen to!
Music is so subjective, it's as infinitely varied as people themselves. Andy, I found your video on ELP fascinating & I can see where you're coming from. For me, I got into them in '77 when I heard "Fanfare" on the radio, it's ironic that in addition to say Blues variation from "Pictures" that they're probably the only ELP pieces that really groove. Looking at the classic ensemble stuff for me it's as if Keith is the conductor & the major part of the orchestra, Carl is the percussion section & Greg the double bass section & vocal soloist. Keith is the driving force both compositionally & instrumentally, when I listen to them it's like he's saying "Hang on to your hats guys it's gonna be a hell uv a ride". It's like a roller coaster ride, not everyone likes them, but for those who do, boy are they exhilarating! Cheers
I did that with love beach which panned but I enjoy it.
I love your take on punk having prog elements... I think you nailed it! And yes, ELP were pompous... one of the reasons I love them, they had no borders... Emerson was a hoot (think knives and B3s) and Palmer with the steel drum set. I was at the concert in Anaheim that became "Welcome back..." The Quad speakers swirling around the audience at the end of "Karn Evil 9" was awesomeness!!!
“The Barbarian”, a direct translation of a Bartok piece with added drumming and bass distortion, from the 1st album...holds up as being super heavy and exciting to me and I think is my favourite “rock band interpretation of a classical piece” I’ve ever heard
Really if you think about it the barbarian was probably the first-ever all of what became known as Progressive metal in rock music. A lot of people don't know they have some critics describe that first album as a heavy metal album and ELP as heavy metal. Of course that was before the term progressive rock was ever used.
@@edljnehan2811 I think you might be right that it is a contender for 1st progressive metal....The other one that comes to mind is 21st century Schizoid man
@@ericmckayrq that's right I was thinking about that one as well. Also for a rock band interpretation of classical I prefer pictures at an exhibition.
@@edljnehan2811 pictures is amazing. Thanks for reminding me. Haven’t listened in awhile
@@ericmckayrq you're welcome. That's one of those albums that I realized they are off the chain musicianship wise. Also even though it's live you can almost count that as one of their Studio albums and I do.
ELP is one of those bands I really have to be in the right mood for, but when I am, I fall in love with them all over again. I still have a vivid memory of going into the Atari Company Store circa 1981, doing my regular search through the aisles of Warner (and Warner-related) records, and finding the 3-disc "Welcome Back My Friends..." in stock for a bit over $7US. In the four years I worked there, both my record collection and my musical tastes expanded dramatically. My bank account...not so much.
One of my biggest regrets though was the one time they got in the 10-disc set of Keith Jarrett's Koln Concerts, I balked at the price (just under $30).
Regarding Carl Palmer as an drummer. I cite Bonham, Bruford, Porcaro, Collins, Copeland as some of my absolute favorites. But can you imagine Keith Emerson walking in saying to you as a 20 year youngish 'hey, what do you think of ideas like Tarkus, Pictures, Toccata, Karn Evil, Pirates etc?' It takes an huge amount of fearlessness to say yes let's do this no matter what. That's the thing I cherish about Carl Palmer. His versatility, creativity and enthusiasm to tackle Emerson's mad ambitious ideas. To put everything and every style into it. And subsequently eloborate your basic jazzkit with gongs, timps, drum synthesizers etc. He is absolute essential in people mind's to what a prog drummer is. Excessive kit, fast and super technical playing and soloing. Without Palmer no Peart, Portnoy etc. I still can listen to Barbarian, Pebble, Tarkus, Pictures, Enigma, Toccata, Karn Evil, Pirates, his Concerto for Percussion, his Welcome Back/Tank solo and being totally mesmerized and energised by it. It's the creativity factor I take from him as a drummer. My personal favorite Carl Palmer drumplaying is the Pirates Albert Hall version: ua-cam.com/video/cYT9DOuxN7s/v-deo.html
Technical, symphonic and grooving(!) :)
Yes I agree
You are right, ELP ploughed a lot of their money back into their shows and production which has to be admired.
In a documentary Keith stated that years after the Works Tour, Greg and Carl said: “ We’d be millionaires by now if it wasn’t for your orchestra.”
I had a similar issue with ELP but not in the past few years I’ve re-learned to love them. Yes they became pompous, but when they were good , they were amazing. Trilogy and Tarkus are my favorite albums but my favorite song is Take a Pebble. Both beautiful and intense.
Thank you for doing this I've been a fan since 1970 and before that the nice. ELP the musicians musicians whether you like them or not you cannot deny their virtuosity. Really second to none. Their musicianship competition would be more with the great Fusion bands like mahavishnu Orchestra and Return to Forever instead of rock groups.
I think that what set Keith Emerson, Carl Palmer (and the Nice drummer Brian Davison) apart from their peers was that their 1st love was Jazz and they only started playing RnB to get regular paid work in the mid 60's with the likes of Gary Farr & the T Bones, Chris Farlowe and the Thunderbirds, The Mark Leeman Five and the VIPs. It's probably another rather broad strokes argument to place contemporaries like Jon Lord, Dave Greenslade, Graham Bond, Billy Ritchie, Rod Argent, Vincent Crane and Don Shin as having served their Prog apprenticeships via RnB. Just for clarity: ELP and the Nice are my two favourite Prog bands of all time.
An inside view of ELP, mainly P!
Obviously, I grew up practicing along with Carl who I copied at the start of my interest in playing drums and then saw Carl aged 18 playing on Top Of The Pops with The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown, miming to Fire and that was it. My own future was set!
That video is here: ua-cam.com/video/en1uwIzI3SE/v-deo.html
Late I was also watching ELP and Mahavishnu Orchestra live in concert
Listen to each ELP album as they came out was a great period and actually playing Rondo with ELP on an Encore at The Odeon New St, Birmingham featuring a double drum solo at the request of Greg and Keith who came and watched me, aged 15, playing my Rogers Drum Kit set up in my bedroom at my parents house before the Odeon show.
Carl was 20 when ELP formed and Carl was basically rocks version of Buddy Rich ~ in those days. I felt a surge of pride - ( or maybe ego!) - when Buddy Rich named Carl along with Steve Gadd and Harvey Mason as his favourite young drummers back in 1986 -
Hear that Buddy Rich interview here. About 16 minutes in. ua-cam.com/video/WD19S4FDiL8/v-deo.html -
and when Ringo was happy to say to Carl, when they met recording with their separate bands at an LA studio, that he had brought Carl’s Stainless Steel kit for himself and Zac to play on.
Back in the day Carl’s popularity went from Buddy Rich to Ringo from The Beatles.
I watched as Billy Cobham came along and his jazz/ soul/r&b groove turned heads as happened to you Andy.
It happened to me too!!
Back in the day it is hard to say what an impact Billy Cobham had when the 1st Mahavishnu Orchestra LP came out.
Going back to P - At 72 Carl is still one of the hardest working drummers I know and he has never followed the drumming trends of each decade, Cobham, Gadd, Vinnie, Weckl etc. He follows what he has always liked and in a way that gives him his own pushing fast style like it or not.
All the above views are completely biased!! Out of my respect for Carl!!
Even though I play nothing like Carl or Nephew, Ian Palmer, I would not have a life long career playing drums, without big brothers influence and my Dad who also played semi pro and sang!
Carl is also such a motivated person too, which I think is why the likes of Keith Emerson liked working with Carl!!
For anyone who is interested here is an old 2006 UA-cam of a Carl, Ian and myself playing a family drum solo. This was full on no holds barred 3 way solo!!
ua-cam.com/video/KsJa1tphJcQ/v-deo.html
Also The update guitar version of Trilogy from 2022 I enjoy.
Carl playing his own pushing way with
Paul Bielatowicz - Guitar
Simon Fitzpatrick - Bass
ua-cam.com/video/zZwgpFX4uwQ/v-deo.html
Thanks for the informative videos, Andy. Respect! 😊
Thanks for your inside view. Carl must have been thrilled to play on TV for the first time wearing that getup!
@@kathyratino962 The first time Carl was 15 with a local band called The Craig on Thank Your Lucky Stars. 🖖Saturday 19th March 1966 Host: Jim Dale Long John Baldrey, Fran & Alan, The Craig, The Shadows, The Walker Brothers, Dave Berry, Valerie Masters, Chris Rayburn
@@stevepalmer-drums That's what I get for assuming! Thanks for the correction.
@@kathyratino962 It was a big deal at the time!! 😊
Just for the record...I know Steve and I was hoping he would chime in on this one. I must add to this thread is also a really really fantastic drummer. In my younger days, before I knew Steve I used to watch him play when he was the house drummer at Ronnie Scott's in Birmingham. Steve seemed to be able to play any style at the drop of a hat, and he is a consumate jazz drummer. A few years later he taught me how to play a Songo on drums, and this opened up a whole new way of playing for me. He is also a fantastic teacher and has mentored so many incredible drummers out there. Steve's nephew, Ian Palmer is also a wonderful drummer...it is quite a drumming dynasty. All the best to Steve x
I think Carl Palmer's drumming on Luckyman is brilliant. Restrained, as he guides the song along. I marvel at it. Reminds me of Bakers wonderful drumming on Can't find my way Home.
Please indulge my little comment here regarding amazing amazing drumming moments. One. 5.15 into endless enigma pt1 the double kick!!!. And two. Mahavishnu lost trident LP. Song called I wonder.
Double kick also sparingly couple of times. The less is more of the double kick. So powerful to me!
Interesting vlog Andy. Thanks very. much indeed.
Very welcome
Pretty sure I discovered ELP after the Blue Devils drum corps performed Karn Evil 9 in 1984. Very nice to hear your kind words about them. You are right, it might be time to start re-listening to ELP and appreciate them again.
Punk and the Punk bands were not rejecting Prog, they were brought up and listened to the shite in the charts: ABBA, Brotherhood of Man, Disco (Grease, Saturday Night Fever etc.) any number of top 30 singles. Most Prog bands were album bands and very rarely, if ever had a single that entered the top 30.
As for what defines Prog, the key division between Prog and Rock (heavy or otherwise), is the division between a band and music lead by keyboards or guitar. ELP are Hendrix without a guitar.
Huge influence...personally from 71 to 73 they were state of the art...I really loved them and if people talked shit they were jealous....by the album works they were a fractured band..I wished they were mentioned more..just think young teenagers were totally in to them...boy have things 😔 changed...sad
They can still be totally into them. Reaction videos have shown this
A lot of people don't know but they were generally considered to be the standard of excellence in musicianship that other bands were measured by in the early 1970s. When I read that I told myself that I just have to start listening to them more. I'd like your comment brother.
You only have to listen to the Strangler's version of Walk on By, to understand how much influence prog had on them, ELP in particular.
ELP over-the-top? never heard that before. ;-) Anyone remember the California Jam in 1974? Emerson's grand piano 'stunt'? ;-O
Great thoughts! Thanks!
I picked up the first album from ELP, and loved it. Then they did _"Tarkus",_ and the story behind the main song just lost me. I had friends who bought it and loved it, but I never bought it. Years later I bought _"Works volume 1",_ and loved some songs and wasn't so keen on others. But on the whole I liked the album. And then the next ELP I bought was _"Love Beach",_ and there they really completely lost me. I had plenty of other albums to listen to.
Steven Wilson talks about the difference between "musicians" and "entertainers". I think that ELP started out as great musicians, and turned into entertainers. And I think that most entertainers lose their audience after awhile, because they don't connect with people at quite the same emotional level.
Oops. I thought this video was released just in the past week, but I see it was months ago!
I remember reading in either NME or Melody Maker in the early 70’s, that viewed ELP, Yes and Genesis as “pomp rock”, probably where the inverted snobbery started.
Incredible! I really dig this video. Brilliant!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! I don’t think ELP were ”pretentious” since that word implies you pretend to be something that you’re not. ELP were just that good and clearly delivered the goods. If anything they were just very ambitious. It’s true they were ”pompous” at times, but that can be said of most heavy metal bands with big scene shows and a ”larger than life” attitude. Pink Floyd seldom get accused of being ”pretentious” although they are much more deserving of the epiteth. I love PF but they have a tendency where the presentation often outshines the quality (and quantity) of the actual song writing.
I loved that ELP actually felt compelled to impress the hell out of you.
I went through a short period in 1973 in which I liked KC and hated ELP... but that was a short period of time.
I saw MO and agree that they were tremendous...but I od'd from overexposure. Fusion was great but bothered me a bit in that it seemed too formulaic.
I think there was a time when lots of fusion bands sounded very similar, at least to me AT THAT TIME.
But when you get distance, you realize how good they were.
ELP, I think you pegged it well, never lost sight of the idea that they were entertainers as well as artists. That made them a bit low brow to some. I have also known people (like critic Charles Shaar Murray) to dislike Prog and ELP in particular, as bourgeoisie- artistic aspirations, which was also a pretense adopted by some U.S. critics.
I am circling around to liking Mahavishnu Orchestra again, but (this is a small criticism), the original group's first two albums were amazing but sounded so much alike, only Jan Hammer changed a little with the use of the Mini-Moog. Then I heard Larry Coryell live and I just liked how Larry executed the idea better. And Magma made it more interesting (which is why I consider Magma fusion). And I heard a lot of MO in early Soft Machine, without the startling guitar work that Holdsworth brought later.
The period between 1967 and 1977 was an embarrassment of riches--and a great many in the rock critical fraternity were incredibly stupid about what gifts they were getting. There was a political reaction against Prog and Fusion for not being pure. The critical community was pathetic.
So works is their ummagumma!!!
But they never followed it up with their Dark Side Of The Moon.
Excellent....!!!
I loved them at the time, even saw them on Brain Salad Surgery tour...
Can't listen to them now..apart from Trilogy...(like you!!)...I have the cds....but think it was "of it's time".....just hasn't aged as well as others....(to me!). Brilliant musicians, but to me the music has dated unlike a lot of others.....Gong, Camel, Focus.....who I can listen to anytime....
I think you are right about it being a little dated now...good point
Wow a lot of different opinions. I've learned people talking about rock and roll is fairly subjective compared to when people graduate and learn about classical music. When you get into classical music you start to look at rock and roll a lot differently. Frankly, ELP does stand the test for me. Emerson's compositions are on a whole other level.
I tend to agree with you.
Emerson was beyond Yes and Wakeman both in composition and playing (knowing that Howe was the key to Yes" long form compositions).
Right again Jeffery
And Howe almost joined the Nice, Keith Emerson's group prior to ELP!
@@garygomesvedicastrology absolutely right on Gary. A lot of people are not aware of this. Steve Howe actually filled-in with the nice on occasion and absolutely loved Keith Emerson. He bragged how the two of them used to dual back and forth on their instruments.
Emerson playing with Oscar Peterson is a little better than the video of Howe playing with Les Paul.
Both are mesmerizing and relevant.
You clearly see the difference between a great prog rock keyboardist and a great jazz keyboardist....
I do the progressive rock keyboardist is much better especially when you're talking about Keith Emerson.
I love ELP and I love this video
I never thought I would please the ELP fans on here and then this happens!!!
I saw all of those bands that you mentioned live in the early 70s , and throughout the 70s .
The most entertaining concerts in those days were put on by Jethro Tull and ELP . They had outrageous and exhilarating stage shows . Yes and Genesis also put on good shows back then , if not quite as entertaining . I've always been an ELP fan , and remain so to this day . Cheers !!
For that hot minute when you were speaking the pretentiousness of ELP, I imagined Peter Gabriel (with his head inside a triangle) and Rick Wakeman with the Knights of the Round Table burst into your room. Both were wearing glorious flowing capes. 😅
I partly learned to play drums listening to ELP. I know I listened to them millions of times, so that’s probably why I don’t listen to them anymore. Just grew out of it. If I come upon a song in my long playlist on my iPhone I tend to skip it rather quickly. Maybe it’s because of the incredible recording quality of now compared to the 70’s. In my teens, I wasn’t quite sophisticated enough to understand what was changing in the music world. I just liked what I liked. I had one friend who thought Zappa was so much better than ELP. But Carl Palmers drumming skills and techniques resonated with me more that Zappa’s at the time. But later in life I learned to appreciate Zappa for what he did. I also played guitar in “Coffee Houses” for money using some of Greg Lakes songs. Now I am a complete amateur compared to the amazing talent I see and hear these days.
I loved ELP heard the track Karn Evil 9 and was drawn in. I've always had them as a 50/50 band for me. 50% I love and the rest I struggled with or hated.
Now as I've become an old git Ive massively opened my listening borders to all sorts of genres and bands but certainly haven't mellowed my tastes. I now find a lot of the ELP stuff hard work to listen to although I did go see Carl Palmers live show a month or so ago and it was excellent. His engagement with the audience, the banter and laughs and the inclusion of the two young guys on Guitar, Bass and Chapman Stick really did get me interested again and brought a whole new twist to the music. Plus they were so enthusiastic about it too. Really great to see youngsters so into it.
Yes...that's where I'm at with them too.
King Crimson was the orginal band to define Prog.Rock...this music came out of nowhere. They were the first. Then ELP followed from other bands.They were the biggest band to see in the 70's. A tour de force.Maybe to some there music may sound dated,but I would rather listen to them to any band musical today.They were virtuoso on there instruments. They brought to the stage a game on to the performance..theatrics. They had the criticism for being over the top.But look at Lady Gaga,Madonna their stage performance is an extravagant show.Long live ELP...ps yes they did songs like Bennie the bouncer..why maybe because they wanted to appease those who said they were over the top. When they were in the top of there popularity Johnny Carson asked who was he listened to in popular music. He did not hesitate ELP..he saw them multiple times.Carl Palmer took notice of Buddy Rich drumming.
I love your statement Michael it is right on. I remember doc Severson saying the Carl Palmer was one of the greatest drummers. Buddy Rich actually took notice of Carl Palmer saying that Carl was the fastest and most precise Rock drummer had ever seen. He inspired Neil Peart. And we all know there was nobody better than Keith Emerson I mean nobody. Rick Wakeman was not even close. At least Keith Emerson gets the praise that he is due. I don't know if you remember but in the early seventies ELP were called the standard in musicianship that all other musicians were measured against. It's amazing how people forget all of this. This guy who's Channel this is you can't tell by listening to him speak if he's for or against ELP
Nice one Andy, welcome back my friend to the paradox that never ends.
Yesterday I watched the SoT Prog Seat chaps discussing Trick of the Tail and Peter Gabriel's Car. It made me realise that I had for a long time dimissed Genesis and Gabriel and positively disliked them; where I was reacting to something inside my head that actually was a negative construct of my own doing. I came to realise not that long ago that my prejudices towards them and other bands and artists was just plain stupid and thereafter I was able to enjoy them. I may not like everyhting they do but I dont get hung up on the things I dont care for like I used to. Sounds like you've maybe come to a similar position with ELP. Enjoy what you like of theirs and skip what you dont, as life is too short to do otherwise. And yes Mahavishnu probably are the greatest bunch of musicians, in whichever grouping they are in, well at least in the 70's.
Sometimes one needs to sit down and re listen. I listened to Tarkus again the other day and it's a stunning piece of full on prog, and it's ahead of it's time too...and as they say...what we says in Patreon, stays in Patreon... ;)
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Indeed Andy and I note what you say about Patreon and I've given myself a hard stare and a good talking to.
I am in my ELP “era” as the kids say so the algorithm suggested this video. Did I just hear that Greg Lake’s voice grates? Thee Gregory Lake? Even Keith Emerson called him the man with the golden voice.
Actually, they did eventually go live on an island, hence Love Beach. :) But point taken. It was always about the music with these three. They were all obsessed with it. If you haven't already, check out the reactions/analysis of classical composer Doug Helvering. He has analyzed the scores for The Endless Enigma, Tarkus, and Keith's piano concerto and reacted to KE9, Jerusalem, Toccata, Still. . .You Turn Me On, and Benny the Bouncer on his UA-cam channel. He has also done PAAE and Trilogy on Patreon.
Endless Enigma: ua-cam.com/video/9FJm2Jgousw/v-deo.html
Tarkus: ua-cam.com/video/_FMjCN6jEyY/v-deo.html
KE9: ua-cam.com/video/aqQzet8pYeM/v-deo.html
Jerusalem, Toccata, Still. . . & Benny: ua-cam.com/video/1iJWBribOJo/v-deo.html
The piano concerto is due to be posted to UA-cam today. I'll post a link when it comes through. (It's already on Patreon.)
Here's Doug's review of Keith's piano concerto score: ua-cam.com/video/9P8jxK0I5PA/v-deo.html
I first heard Keith’s Moog outdo of Lucky Man when in the sick room at school - blew my head off! Saw them late 1970 in London, then again in 1973 in Stoke. Are they perfect, no, but, when they get it right few can match them, viz Tarkus, Trilogy, Fanfare for the Common Man. They vie for my favourite with Pink Floyd, Yes, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, and King Crimson, and I can never pick one. 🎉
Thank you for some valid criticisms about one of my favorite bands.
I am in awe of Emerson big time, but yes, he does lead us over the garden path, and makes me ache for a break thanks to Lake.
I love Lake when he reminds me of Lennon, I love languorous ballads from him, but he had no real opportunity to break out of the same old predictable mold! (Since I love 80’s music, his solo albums were a pleasant surprise.)
Keep up the great work on YT. I’m now a guitar hobbyist and like the input!
Glad you like what I do...this was a strange but rewarding video where I examined my thoughts live on camera. I thought it worked well and will be doing this again...
Big ELP fan here. One thing that differentiates them from other prog bands is that they have a large American influence, not as much British/European as other prog bands.
Trilogy is my favourite ELP album too, the only I still listen to regularly these days. I loved the band when I was 13, 14, 15 but after that I listened to them less and less . . . however these days I really enjoy Keith Emerson's piano compositions and playing. I now also appreciate him purely as a composer. Back in my teens drums was my main instrument and Carl Palmer was my hero but I kinda went off him. I do love Greg Lake's voice and songs though, there's a timeless quality about them.
It's hard to get your head around just how huge ELP were in the early seventies. They were one of the biggest bands in the world, (up there with Led Zeppelin) and they could put things like "Tocatta" on their albums. They deserve credit for that. My recollection is that they peaked with Brain Salad Surgery and it was downhill from there. For me, they're in a time capsule from then and I have no desire to go back and listen again. That said, I still happily listen to King Crimson, Yes, Genesis and bands like Camel.
Despite their virtuosity and my appreciation of them as musicians, as time has gone by I don't feel any connection to ELP at all.
I like how you basically talk yourself into giving them another chance in this video, maybe I will too, but I don't know.
This is how huge ELP were in the 70s. At the California Jam music festival they were the headliners. They headlined over Seals and Crofts, Rare Earth, Black Oak Arkansas Earth,Wind, and Fire, The Eagles, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple. You do not headline a gig with that line up of artists by being a medium concert draw.
Hilarious!!! UA-cam is unforgiving!!!
I paused and thought about it when you raised the question, what is it about ELP? I felt the same type of hesitation. My unconsidered, initial reason was: no guitar hero. Every great rock band needed one, I'm sure I felt in my subconscious brain. E is great, I know. But still...
Great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it
Don’t forget, the first album by The Nice (plus about half of the second) featured Davy O’List on guitar; and there were only a couple of classical covers - the Sebelius and some Bach. The rest was freaky psychedelic original songs. To me it was similar to Syd Barrett Pink Floyd.
Only after The Nice lost Davy O’List did they lean more heavily on covers. And even then they did the spectacular Five Bridges, which singer Lee Jackson wrote about his hometown of Newcastle (and the bridges spanning the Tyne).
My favourite is their debut album. I find the rest patchy. The only one I bought back in the day was Works and I think I was as pretentious then at 17 as the title of the album suggests, and we know that Emerson so wanted to be taken seriously by the likes of Aaron Copland and Leonard Bernstein. Their albums are some of the best sounding of all the prog bands, the way they're mixed and produced, you feel like you're in the same room with them - just brilliant.
A Bit late to comment but i know exactly why he didnt mention ELP. While researching the list he got out his ELP albums and his gaze fell upon Love Beach he was so overawed with the magnificence of the cover that he felt unworthy to utter their name.
I have seen many reaction videos to ELP. Only one was negative, and that was done by a couple who didn't like the ELP Rondo video, more because it was largely improvised.
Every other reaction video I have seen has been in awe of the band and what they could accomplish.
That's another element of ELP that I loved...they would often take chances other bands wouldn't or couldn't. (I was a huge Nice fan before ELP formed and was saddened the Nice disbanded, btw)
As a (Drummer) I think Carl Palmer is probably underrated I don’t hear a lot of (Drummer) talking about call I’ve been I have seen a lot of his videos and when I was younger I listen to them and I think he’s really really good technical wise showmanship wise groove pocket he has all that I just want to say PeartDisicple481
After thought: Thierry Eliez, who in September releases The Emerson Enigma, did an amazing hommage to Keith Emerson . The youtube link to pianist Thierry Eliez hommage ua-cam.com/video/jP1Ppob93dQ/v-deo.html
Cheers Steve...I wondered if you would see this video. Have you seen the incredible videos by Rachel Flowers?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yes, I met Rachel and her mum at the concert for Keith along with Thierry Eliez.That was a great night.
Thanks so much for this link. I had heard their cover of Trilogy, which is gorgeous, but the rest is an absolute joy to listen to. He is so obviously in love with the music he recreates. It's fascinating and thrilling to hear the vocals presented by such a different voice from Lake's. So worth the time to listen to straight through.
Its strange that your intro to this type of music is so connected to my own. I also sold all of my elp records. My reason was seeing them do the Tarkus tour twice at the City Hall in Newcastle March 71 and then at the Queens Theatre some months later. At 16 and hearing what seemed to me exactly the same gig. All the impov's seemed samey and the music was a straight copy. I think it may be because of these 2 gis that I got more involved with jazz, Zappa and all THAT entailed.
Yes...Zappa will trump ELP everytime...
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer any tour news. Norwich perhaps?
ELP is that crazy ex we never forget. Gave us so much, hurt us so much, shaped our character and now we KNOW that if they broke up after their live 1974 album it would have been a perfect career. Their demise was inevitable, too talented for their own good. Even King Crimson called it quits in 74....Fripp knew better :) ELP didnt do that and paid the price. WORKS 2 was a great album actually (songwriting) , vol 1. was a breakup prophecy. Great video as usual!
And there you have it...Fripp knew better...
But did King Crimson ever call it quits, really?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I had a copy of Brain Salad Surgery in the early 70s but swapped it for a space hopper. Which burst.
Fripp wasn't right; he really did n't know better. He lost control of KC in 1974 and broke up the band whenever that happened. It's historically traceable.
ELP broke up after the very costly Works Tour with the forty piece orchestra. They had to drop the Orchestra as they finished the tour. Had Keith Emerson listened to the other band members, they might have made successful commercial transitions like Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes. Gentle Giant quit largely because the pressure for airplay was too much. Greg Lake (and Carl Palmer with Asia) could make the transition. I am sure Keith could have.
Fripp's post Crimson work was very uneven in impact and even quality, I think. He wasn't prescient; he backed down a bit.
ELP is a band I am hot and cold on.
Can’t really listen to them CASUALLY. I will listen to the first 4-5 albums obsessively until I sort of overdose and have to put them away for months. Great band, brilliant musicians, enjoyed the video 👍
Glad you liked it :)
If you have done so, please describe the difference between Prog and Fusion.
Thank you for these videos.
Great idea for a video....
If I may I describe this in one of his earlier videos and really there is no difference. I actually consider Fusion progressive rock. It's basically made up of the same elements being fusing another type of music with rock music, quick and complex time signature changes rhythmic structures. Over-the-top lyrics and themes. Usually progressive rock is made up mostly of rock and classical music however you can always hear elements of jazz in most of the music. Fusion is basically rock music with jazz overtones well that's basically what progressive rock is with jazz and classical elements. If you listen to bands like the mahavishnu orchestra or Return to Forever there's really no difference between that and ELP and King Crimson except the former or more heavily jazz-influenced. You can also hear a lot of jazz in progressive rock for instance listen to take a pebble or better yet watch it on elps live in Switzerland video from 1970. There's plenty of jazz at the end of that song. Progressive rock and jazz-rock fusion basically all the same. I'm sure there's people that will strongly disagree with this but that's okay I would like one of them to explain to me what's different about the two. I'll bet they can't do it.
What is progressive rock basically taking rocks basic 4/4 time structure and simple rhythmic structure and advancing or progressing it by adding elements of jazz and or classical music. Hence the term progressive rock which is exactly what jazz-rock Fusion does. I just wanted to add that to simplify my earlier explanation. I don't know why people insist that there is a difference.
Another great video Andy Any chance doing a video about SAGA and maybe the underrated guitar player Alex lifeson? Thanks
ELP were the first band I saw live (not quite as Back Door were the support act) - Brain Salad Surgery tour at the Empire Pool Wembley. Sort of fell out of love with them after I discovered the Mahavishnu Orchestra and the other fusion bands. IMHO 'Trilogy' and 'PAAE' are their best albums. 'The Endless Enigma' - great track. Again agree with most of what you said.
I really love Endless Enigma, Tarkus and Brain Salad Surgery...
I share a lot of your views on ELP. "Trilogy" is also my favourite album. And overall even after 40 years I still find the band very enchanting and fascinating. But I also always felt three significant flaws with ELP: 1) Their lyrics, while not being bad, were never very strong, 2) they never had a great chemistry together (compared with "The Nice" for example), and 3) I've always felt that while having created some amazing music within 10 years, they never really delivered the "perfect" album, in the sense of "Close To The Edge" or "Dark Side", etc. The material is there, but somewhat spread over 5 or 6 records. And that's maybe a subconcious reason, while ELP would slip one's mind while compiling a "Prog list". Also they only had 1 album with a really outstanding cover design. But I don't want to create the impression like I want to knock them around. It was an excellent band. And I would prefer "Love Beach" to anything "Asia" ever recorded any given day.
Yep...that's about it. This has been an interesting experiment simply putting a band under the microscope and in a kind way looking at the positive and the negatives. On UA-cam it's either one or the other
I think the "perfect" album observation is very astute. There always seemed to be a song that would bring the musical voyage to a halt (are you ready eddy, benny the bouncer).
@@elecrocity I think another part of the problem was, that they all had strong personalities and at the same time slightly different ideas about music. So from the very first day they had been pulling in different directions - and it shows in the music. I remember Emerson telling the story that even at the very beginning Lake didn't want to record Tarkus, because he didn't like the excentric time signitures, while Emerson wasn't to crazy about some of the typical Lake ballads. In hindsight it's surprising the band lasted that long.
@@elecrocity and that's exactly why I take Brain Salad over let's say a Close to the Edge because of the wtf, crazy, seemingly out of place musical moment on the album. I totally understand why people don't like or even hate that kind of thing. I call it the 'And Now For Something Completely Different' factor. In my view they made 4 truly great coherent, balanced(in ELP terms) albums. The debut, Pictures, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery.
@@AlesPickar that's absolutely true. It's their weak and strong point. It makes a band really dynamic but also very attackable. And after '74 this became their downfall. It's pretty tragic that there wasn't a little bit more friendship between them. They had a lot of respect for each other but were extremely stubborn people.
Carl Palmer gets crapped on quite a bit lately. If you watch their documentary "From the Beginning", you can see footage of rehearsal for the Brain Salad Surgery album of Keith more or less giving Carl Palmer the drums and percussion parts. His playing and parts were at least, very influenced by Emerson. I don't think that Brain Salad Surgery was more self indulgent than Tales from Topographic Ocean. Keith Emerson said "What many people call pretentious, I call ambitious". Many modern prog bands have copied Yes, Genesis,etc. No one has come close to sounding like ELP. Lyrics aside, Zappa and Coltrane was everything that people accuse ELP of. Dizzy Gillespie said that "I would rather be the world's worst innovator than the world's best imitator". For me that sums up ELP.
I always wish I could ask these drummers who say Palmer didn't keep time well if they think they could have reined in Keith Emerson, who 95% of the time was like a runaway train. As he has said, it's not what he was there to do.
Greg Lake said punk was violent, and ELP was just as violent, if not more. I mean, if throwing a Hammond around and stabbing it with knives and pulling it on top of yourself and playing upside down isn't violent, what is? Makes bashing a guitar look like child's play.
Johnny Lydon (Rotten) met Keith once and complimented Keith on his knife technique. This is true and verified.
Ah ELP. They were the best of prog, they were the worst of prog.
That about sums them up
I think there has been a big re-evaluation of these bands in recent years. Back in the 80s, 90s and noughties you would be laughed at if you said you were a fan of prog. It was almost a shameful thing to own up to. Since then there seems to have been an acceptance and a blossoming love of things proggy. As ever tastes change over time and there's a reaction to the inanity and simplicity and downright boringness (?? Is that a word? It is now) of modern pop music. Some 10 or 15 years ago my neice and nephew would ask their dad to play Brain Salad Surgey as it was so much more interesting than what they were getting from the radio and their peers. My nephew wanted to listen to Led Zeppelin so I ripped copies for him which he loved. But also there will always be those music fans who wish to explore and discover where music comes from.
I think musicians kept prog going because musicians love prog, even secretly in the 80s
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yeah! I'd agree with that. Musicians want to improve, learn and stretch themselves. The genre was always there, underground for a while, but there all the same whilst it was deemed unfashionable.
If only they'd done a quality recording of Pictures at an Exhibition
Prog Rock is a thinking person's music
What would be a feeling persons music then?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I think; therefore, I feel.
I'm not sure that is true.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Go on. . .
@@kathyratino962 me too young lady. Me too. Haha
Andy I had a similar experience with ELP, loved them when I was young but lost interest. I believe you touched on the reason briefly, at least for me ELP had That virtuoso technique but not the depths of mystery that King Crimson had or the spirituality of Yes or Mahavishnu. Those are the things that draw you in deeper and keep you engaged even all these years later, it’s the depth of mystery and spirituality that is missing for me.
Would love for you to do a video on shakti and remember shakti
Thanks much love videos
I will do a video on Shakti...
Palmer said "We pushed each other to be the best we could be."
For all others, who could not reach that level, ELP were "pretentious".
I too always have sort of an asterisk next to ELP's name in my head. I sense that your take is not completely dissimilar to mine. I want to think that bands like KC and Yes sort of tempered themselves by the strength of their compositional personalities. Even though Jon Anderson was undoubtedly "the skipper" the other band members were strong, virtuoso, ambitious and ego-driven enough to demand a forging of something greater than their individual selves but which was very much all of them. Same with KC. With ELP, fewer members and only two of them melodicists, I think the ambition of Emerson drove the "personality" of the band. Genius though he was, it wasn't, IMO, strong enough of a musical universe to keep me in once drawn by Lucky Man, Jerusalem or KarnEvil 9, not like a CTTE, Fragile, Larks Tongues, Starless or Lamb on Broadway, Supper's Ready, etc.. I think some might speculate that Greg Lake was too high in trait agreeableness, who knows. All due respect to the memory of Lake and Emerson.
Tarkus and Karn Evil match all the epics you mentioned, easily. Although I love King Crimson, I am always astonished at how much love Starless is given. I thought it was ok; Fracture was amazing. Plus, Lake threatened to quit the band when he heard Tarkus; the only reason it was recorded was because they had already booked studio time and they had nothing else. Lake was the least willing band member to experiment. According to Keith live-and Greg backed this up-the member most willing to try new things was Carl Palmer (and Carl wasn't with them when they said it.)
I think the thing about ELP is their music did not age nearly as well as that of most of their Prog contemporaries. One reason for that could be their particular influences-often American jazz and classical composers from the mid 20th century-just aren’t in the DNA of all the other popular music that has come since ELP split. Also their approach to incorporating Classical music often bordered on kitsch-classical hits played loud and with a beat! More interesting were Yes’s attempts at making original rock music with the emotional and formal scope of a classical symphony. And those jokey honky tonk tunes were truly terrible! At the end of the day what probably makes them seem most dated is their complete inability to catch a groove….poor Greg and Carl had their hands full just trying to keep up with Keith!
Check out reaction videos to their work. You would be surprised to see the enthusiasm for these pieces you don't think aged well. "Masterpiece" is a common descriptor.
I admire your analysis. I've recently returned to loving ELP.
I think punk was more a reaction to what Led Zepplin was, although I agree with your opinion re reaction to ELP. I grew up in Johannesburg so perhaps my musical journey was different to someone from Blighty.
Their music is very English
Check out my up and coming album ranking of ELP.
It's a bit like Zappa. There's so much goofing around that it's easy to forget just how good the music is. Their first four albums were a treat. And, unlike Uncle Frank, they are not accepted by cool people.
I've got the first four studio albums in surround sound and I love them but after that they lost it. Unlike other progressive bands of the seventies they now sound dated, so because of that, I have to be in the mood. The music of that period 67 to 79 is definitely the best for music, inventive, searching, pushing things forward. Although I'm not stuck in the past, the same cannot be said of the current artists.
It definitely started going wrong when video and mtv became the thing that sold music, Zappa was spot on about that.
I agree with all that
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Also, I think most of the original progressive artists composed music that needed their skills to perform it but the music was the most important think. While ELP, felt like they were composing music that showed off their skills, their skills became the thing, music became secondary. That to me, sounds like the big difference.
It's a bit like the modern prog metal artists. Bands like Between the Burried and Me, Animals as Leaders, Haken, Leprous and Dream Theater, the music is more important but it shows off their skills. Other so call prog metal bands, it's the skills that are most important, not the music. Dream Theater cross over the line on occasion.
All music sounds dated.
@@garygomesvedicastrology Don't agree with that. Bands like King Crimson for example are so different it never dates. Some newer bands like Between the Buried and Me, Leprous, Black Midi, I don't think will date. Frank Zappa never dates. Some Classical music like Stravinsky, Mahler, Vaughan Williams, Cassela, Glass, Alda will never date. Some Jazz like Miles Davis, Soft Machine, Neil Ardley, Brand X, Eberhard Weber will never date. There are loads of other examples, Murcof, Autechre, Brian Eno, Roxy Music, Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, Nick Cave, Radiohead, I could go on and on. Not all music dates, if it is different to anything else it always stays original and so cannot be dated.
@@stuartraybould6433 I see we agree to disagree. I think the main point I was trying to make is that all music is of its time.
I don't disagree that some music sounds timeless to you-but let's take King Crimson, for example. Starless and Elephant Talk are not technologically similar and the music from the 80s doesn't have the same freshness for me. There is certainly a preference, and lots of people argue for timelessness. I have always had a problem with that concept, personally, especially with most of the artists you used as examples.
Music that has only been around for let's say 60 years? It's a bit difficult to call any of that timeless.
I have no problem with you holding this idea. I just can't acknowledge it. I even have the same problem with classical music dating back 500 years. I think Soft Machine Volumes 1 and 2 are tremendous. I still love them and hear them as fresh. Concensus never impressed me. I think it's a shared illusion we accept pretty uncritically.
That's just my opinion. You are entitled to your list of eternal music. I don't know for sure but I'll pass and like what I like.
Go in peace!!!😀
The triple live album is great but I hate the elaborate cover taking the records out and putting them back in is a real pain.
I have exactly the inverse reaction: I love ELP, but while I appreciate some of Yes' stuff, they come across to me as overwrought and a bit like a garage band too much in love with their own sound. I do like some Yes songs (lower case "s" there), but find it difficult to get through an entire Yes album. ELP, on the other hand, I find brilliant.
Who was this video about again? Seems I can’t quite remember…😉. But seriously folks, “Fragile” was probably my first prog album, but “Tarkus” was my second. I remember dropping the needle onto side 1 and not having a clue what was going on. Never heard anything like this before. Still my favorite ELP album. I do agree with some of the other comments about not ageing well. Of all the original prog bands I probably go back to ELP the least. Not exactly sure why. And they did seem to embrace the overblown-ness of it all. The $30,000 drum set. Lake’s $10,000 Persian on-stage rug. They seemed to revel in it…good for them. I still can’t explain “Love Beach” though…
That rug keeps getting more and more expensive. . . LOL Definitely not $10,000.
@@kathyratino962 I believe, according to his autobiography, it was worth 6000 pounds (about $10,000 in 1977)...and had it's own roadie.
@@martinbroten9467 Was the exchange rate that different at that time? That's wild. I remember someone once calling it a "5,000-pound rug" in an interview. To someone not thinking English money, it sounded like the rug WEIGHED that much. Stories about that rug's origins are all over the place, as are many of the band members' stories. I do know a roadie used to come out on stage before they went on to vacuum the rug. One of the band's many, many "bits," although Lake says they didn't know that was happening until it had happened quite a few times.
ELP has a special, no, UNIQUE! place in my musical life. I still listen to them and love everything they've done, more or less. But I hear them streaming than more than I hear them on the CDs I have. I always loved ELP albums and still do, even though I don't really like some of what Emerson did in The Nice or a lot his cartoonish stuff (Benny the Bouncer, etc.) So, yeah I like and respect all of it. But for some reason I don't play it a lot. 😕
I totally agree with you.