Very insightful analysis. I first discovered Winterreise while reading Jung. It struck me that Schubert was describing what Jung would describe as a young man wrestling with psychosis, a state where dreams seem real and reality seems a dream. I had the great fortune to hear Hans Hotter sing the cycle in recital. I was sitting a few feet from the stage, and when Hotter sang Der Leiermann he focused on me and my wife as if we were the only ones in the audience. It was uncanny and never to be forgotten.
And I had the great fortune to hear Peter Pears and Benjamin Britten perform the cycle, in the same month they recorded it for Decca, and I too was sitting a few feet from the stage. One of my most treasured memories.
Late to your channel, but thanks that was really interesting and helpful! I'm just beginning to get into the Schubert music and you have helped me get a much better picture of whats going on....
Hi, I’m sitting on a beach in Italy reading your book ‘every good boy does fine’. I’m thoroughly enjoying it! I find myself wanting to bookmark and save so many moments from it. I’m not finished it yet but know already that I’ll be reading it again when I get home! All the best, Gavin
I remember so well a 1992 piece in the New Yorker by Richard Goode who talks of Beethoven and Schubert in a way that forever bound me to these composers. I mention this because I just finished Every Good Boy Does Fine and was so happy to see you mention Richard Goode a couple of times. He is someone I greatly admire.
i like this talk. You should write a book about what you say. one of the best book I've ever read is John M Gingerich's new book on Schubert. t 6:48 you say how Winterreise begins after the end of die Shenemullerin - what an astute observation! I've never herd anyone make that observation before - it's quite true. But then again, I suppose the poetry author Mr Muller must also have made that connection (if of course it was written after his first book of 'die shone mullerin)...
After many years, I finally came to understand that I am most happy when I am creating. The chorus in Verdi’s Aida sings an invocation to the great god, Ftah. “You, who from nothing created the universe....” How is something created from nothing? By use of the imagination. We have an image in our mind and we create it as art. And by creating a tangible product that starts with a thought, we are assuming, on a small scale, the role of God. Perhaps the anxiety of being powerless over life and death is relieved a bit when we, like god, create. Yet, here we have Schubert who clearly feels a profound despair about life…he is dying. And still,he is able to create from the depths . I find it paradoxical and wondrous .
When you say Schubert turns the major into something more tragic than the minor, I somehow, as a non-musician, heard this but was unable to articulate it. Thank you for helping me to understand one of my favorite pieces of music by one of my favorite composers. The term dark seems inadequate to describe Schubert's often tortured music.
There is something archetypal about the figure of the Hurdy-Gurdy Man. I recognize him as an image first encountered in my childhood. His origin is Eastern Europe. Why do I think he might be Jewish? The Fiddler on The Roof. The Rag Picker. The Outcast The Stranger among us who has looked upon things we all shy away from and so, we shy away from him all the while knowing he has something wise and terrible to teach us. Someone recently said to me that more than being loved, we need to feel that we belong. I thought about that and it feels right ! Family, Religion, Nation, City Class Sexual orientation Local Sports Team College Fraternity Political party These are things we belong to. We support them. We exalt them. We defend them. We oppose those who attack them. We feel elated when another member of our tribe succeeds. What does it feel like when we belong to no group? Who among us does not belong to any group? The beggar. The homeless The elderly living alone. The black man in a white world. The mis-shapen The grotesque. This is the Hurdy Gurdy man.....the Leiermann The one we fear most because he lives our greatest nightmare. But when we are dying we feel the ultimate alone-ness. We are alive but no longer belong to the world of the living. Perhaps Schubert, who was dying when he wrote this, was making common cause with the Leiermann. Outcasts... together. " May I come along? Will you play my song ?"
Very insightful analysis. I first discovered Winterreise while reading Jung. It struck me that Schubert was describing what Jung would describe as a young man wrestling with psychosis, a state where dreams seem real and reality seems a dream. I had the great fortune to hear Hans Hotter sing the cycle in recital. I was sitting a few feet from the stage, and when Hotter sang Der Leiermann he focused on me and my wife as if we were the only ones in the audience. It was uncanny and never to be forgotten.
And I had the great fortune to hear Peter Pears and Benjamin Britten perform the cycle, in the same month they recorded it for Decca, and I too was sitting a few feet from the stage. One of my most treasured memories.
Please keep sharing your wisdom, I'll never have enough
Thank you, this session is so insightful and beautiful.
I pressed Like but its much more than that Jeremy, Thanks so much for this.Don Hann
Wonderful discussion. Thank you
Wonderful - so very engaging and full of insights. Thank you.
Late to your channel, but thanks that was really interesting and helpful! I'm just beginning to get into the Schubert music and you have helped me get a much better picture of whats going on....
Hi, I’m sitting on a beach in Italy reading your book ‘every good boy does fine’. I’m thoroughly enjoying it! I find myself wanting to bookmark and save so many moments from it. I’m not finished it yet but know already that I’ll be reading it again when I get home! All the best, Gavin
Great storytelling. Thanks a lot! Also, can I please have your piano?
I remember so well a 1992 piece in the New Yorker by Richard Goode who talks of Beethoven and Schubert in a way that forever bound me to these composers. I mention this because I just finished Every Good Boy Does Fine and was so happy to see you mention Richard Goode a couple of times. He is someone I greatly admire.
Very interesting.
Hey I'm a Carolina boy too (South). Also born in 1970.
i like this talk. You should write a book about what you say. one of the best book I've ever read is John M Gingerich's new book on Schubert. t 6:48 you say how Winterreise begins after the end of die Shenemullerin - what an astute observation! I've never herd anyone make that observation before - it's quite true. But then again, I suppose the poetry author Mr Muller must also have made that connection (if of course it was written after his first book of 'die shone mullerin)...
After many years, I finally came to understand that I am most happy when I am creating.
The chorus in Verdi’s Aida sings an invocation to the great god, Ftah.
“You, who from nothing created the universe....”
How is something created from nothing? By use of the imagination.
We have an image in our mind and we create it as art.
And by creating a tangible product that starts with a thought, we are assuming, on a small scale, the role of God.
Perhaps the anxiety of being powerless over life and death is relieved a bit when we, like god, create.
Yet, here we have Schubert who clearly feels a profound despair about life…he is dying.
And still,he is able to create from the depths .
I find it paradoxical and wondrous .
What sheet music edition of Winterreise do you recommend?
When you say Schubert turns the major into something more tragic than the minor, I somehow, as a non-musician, heard this but was unable to articulate it. Thank you for helping me to understand one of my favorite pieces of music by one of my favorite composers. The term dark seems inadequate to describe Schubert's often tortured music.
May I steer the listener in the direction of Charles Rosen's absolutely extraordinary treatment of Winterreise in his book the Romantic Generation?
All these comments and not one response from Denk …
There is something archetypal about the figure of the Hurdy-Gurdy Man.
I recognize him as an image first encountered in my childhood.
His origin is Eastern Europe.
Why do I think he might be Jewish?
The Fiddler on The Roof.
The Rag Picker.
The Outcast
The Stranger among us who has looked upon things we all shy away from and so, we shy away from him all the while knowing he has something wise and terrible to teach us.
Someone recently said to me that more than being loved, we need to feel that we belong.
I thought about that and it feels right !
Family,
Religion,
Nation,
City
Class
Sexual orientation
Local Sports Team
College
Fraternity
Political party
These are things we belong to.
We support them.
We exalt them.
We defend them.
We oppose those who attack them.
We feel elated when another member of our tribe succeeds.
What does it feel like when we belong to no group?
Who among us does not belong to any group?
The beggar.
The homeless
The elderly living alone.
The black man in a white world.
The mis-shapen
The grotesque.
This is the Hurdy Gurdy man.....the Leiermann The one we fear most because he lives our greatest nightmare.
But when we are dying we feel the ultimate alone-ness.
We are alive but no longer belong to the world of the living.
Perhaps Schubert, who was dying when he wrote this, was making common cause with the Leiermann. Outcasts... together.
" May I come along? Will you play my song ?"
please shut up