Biology vs. Gender Ideology: The Science Behind the Debate
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- The Michael Shermer Show # 470
Biologist Colin Wright joins the podcast to explore one of today's most contentious topics: the intersection of biological sex and gender.
Drawing on his expertise in animal behavior and evolutionary biology, Colin breaks down key concepts such as biological sex, gender identity, and gender dysphoria. He also examines the shift in societal definitions of what it means to be a man or woman, and how these evolving perspectives fit with long-standing biological principles.
This session was presented at FreedomFest 2024. To see more speeches and sessions from FreedomFest, visit www.freedomfest.com/civl
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Stopping stigmatizing people was one of the right things that we learned over the last few decades. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Though, I don't have much hope about this issue, because we as a society seem to love moving from one wrong to another, always skipping the right before our very eyes.
Gender is a social construct because different societies have different standards regarding acceptable behavior for genders. Just like they have different standards regarding what is acceptable behavior in regards to social interaction, class division, acceptable culinary practices, etc.
Interesting interview.
I love Colin and Christina Buttons.
A breath of fresh air on the internet!
how about having a psychologist answer these questions.
I'm glad there's still SOME corners of atheist/"skeptic" UA-cam, that haven't yet been bullied into compliance, by the authoritarian cult of evidence-free, sex-independent "genders".
Respect to that small handful of prominent atheists, who use CONSISTENT standards of evidence, rejecting "but it FEELS true, to me", from BOTH traditional religions, AND the "gender" loons- Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Peter Boghossian, Maria McLachlan, Doug Pinecreek.
Lysenko returned with a vengeance.
Ah, the old sex and gender blender😂
@@teacherrussell5206 Did he even define gender?
Excellent video Dr. Schermer, speaking with an actual biologist to cut through the gender ideologist pseudoscience.
Over 110 vertebrate species have been shown to have a consistent percentage of homosexuality in their population.
He's a very attractive biologist with good fashion sense :)
This dude works for the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank. He has an agenda beyond science
Yes - his attribution of "ideology" to everyone else is a dead giveaway as is the rather garbled straw-manning rant at the start. Sad to see Michael Shermer's critical thinking seeming to depart on this issue. A shame because there are other better scientists he could have interviewed on this such Prof Robert Sapolsky.
This was a very disappointing segment! I have come to expect more from this broadcast. To compare the trauma a youth must feel in the decision to transition with a fad like dressing goth is just callus. Throughout history, a non-heterosexual have been killed, beaten, been outlawed and even burned at the stake. If in the 21st century, hormone therapies or surgeries can make a human feel better as the correct person...how can anyone think it's a bad thing? If a man wants a set of boobs to make herself feel better, more pretty and more feminine; who cares! People born with less than 20/20 vision use corrective lenses to allow to them function in the world - some use contact lens for vanity sake. If that same person was not given glasses, they would be helpless and depressed. But we as a society call see the physical difference and can understand and even empathize. If the difference is hidden deep inside the brain and manifests itself in opposition to the norm...then it is just a fad.
"compare the trauma a youth must feel in the decision to transition with a fad like dressing goth is just callus."
This assumes there is trauma.
Also where is the decision coming from, is it really the youth? How can we know?
@rickkrzewski
Great post.
I'm assuming you're saying naysayers CALL IT "just a fad."
@@DeconvertedMan
With gender dysphoria, there is commonly real trauma resulting from people telling them they're feeling of being their felt gender is wrong. That's a medically established fact.
You can learn a lot about this by reading about it.
I recommend you try to find scientific summaries or abstracts on gender dysphoria.
Trying to help them change their biologically dictated thoughts, kills them via suicide.
Transitioning them prevents that.
@@DeconvertedMan Thank you for reading and commenting on my response to this presentation. Yes I do assume trauma because of the discussion these two gentlemen had and that is the accepted narrative. The youth is not oblivious to this diatribe; there is the peer pressure they hear from their friends, from churches and from gentlemen such as these. Could there be pressure from alternative voices to make a transition...sure. But that's unlikely because of massive identity and bodily changes, nobody is going to do this on a whim. it is an incredibly difficult decision and could never be taken lightly. So I get pissed when someone so callously calls if a fad...like wearing Doc Martins to look cool.
@@rickkrzewski Did you read Irreversible Damage? If so, what do you make of those stories? How can a child "know" what they are? Why this and not other choices, ie voting, sex etc?
Ideology < facts
Skeptic = trust me bro
For years we laughed at Creationists ... then gender ideology came along.
And Christians criticized it through ignorance, and some scientists made unfounded opinions who gave christians confidence in their criticism. Do you know how badly evolution was criticized by biologists who had a hard time accepting they might be wrong when it was first proposed?
@@AngelRamirez-zv6qp That is why we need to watch out for people who say, "I am the science."
What is a woman.
Woman is a word that means whatever it is agreed to mean.
Twisting the defintion of a word indeed changes what a woman is. However, we no longer have a word for what woman use to mean.
(Think about the word literally)
“There’s only one gender the human gender”. But we’re one race lol.
Inner thoughts and feelings are hard to science because scientific method is empirical. Thats why it is good to build our society based on empirical facts BUT the aim is this society to make us individually and subjectively happy. So a feminine man is man but must not be forced into sex with women if he feels attrracted to men. Yes, there is condition where one strongly hates the genitalia they were born with. It is a very complex issue. I havent experienced it, not an expert. But i have seen feminine men and masculine women who learned to live with what they are without medical amputations .
Until very recently, and in other languages, there is no distinction between sex and gender. Plenty of English literature refers to women by their "sex" not "gender". "Fairer sex" and all that.
Yes, they used to be synonyms. Now the word gender has become bastardized.
Yes , but it's worse than that. Until the 20tj century it wasn't even used as a synonym.
Isn't gender freedom the same as religious freedom? Isn't this all a soul issue? Sex is physiological and gender is psychological. Psyche is simply the Greek word for soul. So aren't religious freedom and gender freedom almost the same thing? Just because you were born into one religion doesn't mean you can't transition to another religion. It happens all the time in the religious community. Especially on UA-cam. And Mother Nature has never been heterosexual or binary as she has always been LGBT. Just like her Natural World of which we are all apart. Of course, Trans Folk do not transition from one gender to another. They simply reveal the true gender which they were born with. The one which is different from the sex that they were born with. See the recent brilliant and amusing Peacock science documentary titled QUEER PLANET. Which will explain everything you need to know about the sexual reality of life on Earth. Which has nothing at all to do with the ignorant patriarchal sexual teachings of the Abrahamic religions. Which are currently just as wrong about human sexuality as their teachings on human slavery used to be until rather recently.💙
There are at the very least three biological sexes within our species. I am very curious as to what area of specialization your biologist is an expert in, it's obviously not human anatomy or genetics.
Also "intersex" defines abnormalities in development of either sex, not a third sex. All 4 variations of sex chromosomes are still one or the other sex. Trans ideology is also sexist bc it is the belief that men and women are defined by outward appearance.
They are mostly right but check out Rationality Rules discussion with Colin. He and Michael are both missing some real nuances, which makes their definitions less scientifically useful.
I think Colin is absolutely right, sex based on the type of gamete your biology is supposed to produce is a completely binary system. Even for various chromosomal disorders you can still group each condition under one category or the other based on the definition Colin uses, there is no true middle option or "spectrum".
As for Rationality Rules, unfortunately I think he is ideologically compromised on this topic. Watching him address Dawkins' point about how trans identity has parallels to Catholicism's ideas about transubstantiation was a real eye opener. RR was using the most uncharitable, tortured interpretations of Dawkins' argument to discredit and even mock him.
“Rationality rules” is full of 💩. He put out a video a few years ago where he said “trans women don’t belong in womens sports”, and a big segment of the atheist online world threatened to cancel him, and he caved and recanted what he said so he wouldn’t be canceled. He went from looking like a cool frontman from an English rock band, to looking like a homeless Antifa protester from Portland. 😂
Transition is a synonym of Conversion.
I’ve accepted, and identify as, being a highly evolved primate - specifically a Homo sapiens sapiens. Those who have seen me eat when I’m hungry might question this, however.
I'm with you, I'm a human, though I eat like a dog. Don't let them suppress you. - All the best. Fido.
@@versioncity1 LOL
Minus one sapian.
Being skeptical is an admirable trait, refusing to honestly engage with the available information on a topic and then state that the topic isn't a real thing is pseudo skepticism.
If (X) idea has no logical and/or scientific underpinning we *must* be skeptical about (X) idea.
It does do. This is just another straw man made by biologist who don’t understand the subject or the work underpinning it. The same type of biologist who misrepresented and ridiculed biological evolution when it was first introduced as a hypothesis.
@@AngelRamirez-zv6qp Prove any of that. Do note, at no point did I suggest what (X) and (Z) are or were. You are the one filling in the blanks with something. Now you have gained the burden on every claim you made.
"This is a strawman" - demonstrate this.
"Same type of biologist..." Rather then commit a poisoning of the well, provide the argument, data and evidence for your ideas.
Exactly. Just ask your phone what actual biologists say. "It's a spectrum that is not controlled solely by inherited genes. Genetic expression is far more complicated than a simplistic grade school explanation. That's why universities exist"
@@DeconvertedMan Calm down now. You didn’t read my comment carefully before rushing to respond. I didn’t fill in (X) in your statement, nor did you mention you were a biologist to have the confusion that I was referring to you. I think I was justified in thinking you wanted us to apply your statement to gender ideology, and to think that it should apply because a biologist suggested it wasn’t logical and had no scientific basis.
I simply criticized his understanding and exposé of gender ideology as a straw man. Although it is true that some people argue that Sex is not binary, including some concepts of gender ideology, we must not apply this to the general concept of gender ideology. Just look it up, type “gender ideology” in google. We are in 2024 my dude, I don’t need to send you to a library in order to show you how he is clearly straw manning gender ideology.
@@AngelRamirez-zv6qp Your assuming my emotion by saying "calm". Stick with logical analysis.
Yes, in fact you did fill in the (X) in my statement by your statements.
You posted in response to my statement, that suggests you are responding to my statement as that is the normal subset of behavior when responding to comments.
Strange red haring there.
Just "look up" (X) in google.
No if you can not or will not support your ideas and/or assertions with relevant data, facts and or logic, then no one should believe you.
The Burden of proof is still yours if you want to claim something.
"Google it" is not a rebuttal.
They should maybe re-title this. It seems pretty one-sided for a supposed discussion on a debate.
It's "the science behind the debate" not an actual debate
A discussion reflecting one side of an actual debate. And much of the discussion has nothing to do with the science.
@@randalllampe6576 wtf the fck don't you understand...it's not a debate...it's the science behind the debate. Jesus fcking christ
The gender constructivist side is pseudoscience.
Without xx and xy H. sapiens, we would not exist. We're animals too. Even though we want to deny it, i.e., heaven, God, resurrection...
Get it?
It's just one more denial strategy.
I wasn't really expecting much when you decided a biologist was who should explain gender disphoria, but I did think he would be able to explain what sex is. I have one question for him, as there are only two biological sexes, what sex is an individual who is born genetically incapable of producing either gamete necessary for reproduction? Just because people fall outside the norm biologically, or psychologically, or both doesn't mean they don't exist. Biological sex in humans isn't a spectrum, but it isn't a dicotomy either. Complex human conditions don't cease to exist just because people refuse to address the complexity. We are complex organisms, and if you want to honestly discuss issues that most of us will never have to deal with then I would recommend interacting with actual experts on those issues. Or you can simply say I fall within the norm in both my genetic sex, and my gender identity therefore everyone does. There is an antiquated word "hermaphrodite", what sex does your biologist consider someone with that condition?
Hermaphroditism occurs in less than 1% of the population, now called intersex. They are the exception that proves the rule. For 99.5% of the population, sex is a binary.
Why should we be concerned about how some people feel? It's a small percentage of the world population. let people be what they want to be and mind your own business.
Feelings are not relevant. Only facts.
This has nothing to do with feelings. This has to do with children being experimented on medically for no real reason. You either don’t understand the issues, or you are a propagandist.
5:25 he called it a social contagion, bro is biased af
This guy doesn’t even know what he’s talking about
Bro how the hell did he get into Skeptic magazine this is a joke
If you feel it or think it, it's 100% real. There are no delusions, no errors, no fads, no ignorance, no hatred, no fear, no preening, no bragging.
Yes, but it is only real and true to you. Not other people.
thats called an inner fantasy ...
@@sarral2008Not even then.
Delusions are not reality, gender disphoria is a type of body dysmorphic disorder. It is not "real" at all, you are genuinely sick however.
@@sarral2008not true
It would be helpful in this video to hear from Trans people rather than just talking about Trans people. Or even an Endocrinologist? As this video is filled with stereotypes and bias and subjectivity. If there were someone who could correct the misinformation it would be a better video. Unless bias is the intention.💙
Yes, I agree, and next time anyone speaks on evolution we should have creationists there to tell the other side of the story think of the feelings of the creationists who we are hurting by not doing that!
Nice try, propagandist. 🙄
@@DeconvertedMan I just think it's better to talk with people rather than just about them. Unless you fear them? 💙
@@theunknownatheist3815 Propaganda rather than insight? 💙
I have no issue with talking to anyone, however when looking to what experts say, I do not see why we would want any person there that is not themselves an expert in the relevant field. That is my point.
“Sex isn’t really a thing, there’s more than two of them” no, there are two sexes yes, gender varies between the two. Gender is a social construct, not sex. This guy is already getting it wrong.
🙄 you have no idea what you’re talking about.
This a short video on the dervish UA-cam channel:“Rupert Spira: Non-Dualism,...
Rupert Spira on the Nature”, this irrational senile is one of the first thieves who found human thoughts on closer to truth UA-cam channel, I wrote that on other UA-cam channels too,