Homosexuality & the UMC: Why is the UMC Splitting?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Homosexuality & the UMC: Why is the UMC Splitting? - Eighth in a series exploring the divide in the United Methodist Church and possible disaffiliation. Exploring our differences over human sexuality and marriage, homosexuality, LGBTQ+, transgender, drag queen, polyamory, and more in the UMC.
#UMC #disaffiliation #umcsplit #unitedmethodist #unitedmethodistchurch #traditionalist #progressive #homosexuality
Isaac Simmons:
• Ministry candidate pre...
vimeo.com/show...
Duke Divinity School Chapel Service (short clip):
• United Methodist Unive...
Polyamory UMC Pastor in Pittsburgh:
www.pghcitypap...
MS Annual Conference 2009:
• Lesbian Couple's Amend...
It is easy to understand why the split is occurring . The UMC wants to consider the Bible a suggestion for life, whereas the GMC wants to treat it as the Word of God...I left the UMC years ago because of its drift away from Biblical tenants. This split will destroy the UMC for sure. Notice that globally the churches growing are those faithful to Biblical principles. Those dying treat the Bible as a suggestion and believe humans know better than the Lord.
It should be ..it's just another Religious Faction....U Start messing with the Word of God ..and changing it to fit your narrative.... You are on dangerous Ground...
Have u Not read the back of the Book...
Let me refresh this so called ' Clergy"
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And let him that heareth say, Come.And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely
For I testify into every man that heareth the Words of the Prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
And if any man shall take away from the Words of the book of this prophecy, shall God take away his part out of the book of Life, and out of the Holy City, and from the things that are written in this book "
Revelation 22:17-19
It would do Your Leaders Good to take Heed to That WORD.
BEFORE ITS TOO LATE ...
Don't be like sheep to the slaughter....Get out of there quick...
Yes, the churches that are growing are in countries that have just passed laws sentencing anyone who says they are gay to lifetime imprisonment. (Uganda) If those are today's fervent Christians, all I can say is: "Lord, deliver me from your Christians!"
Thank you, Pastor for boldly speaking the truth and taking a righteous stand. We cannot back down from what God says in His holy word. I was raised in the Methodist Church and it grieves me to see such blatant rebellion against what God has clearly said regarding homosexuality and deviant sexual behavior. It is wrong and God will judge those who don't repent and turn away from this sin.
304.3 is observed at my Tradional UMC Church which is a thriving ,Bible believed and preached Church
I think the underlying cause of this controversy is that there are too many nominal Christians who believe in church but deep down don't really believe in God and therefore God's scripture can be subject to editing because it is just a story to them written by some unenlightened monk long ago.
I approach the LGBTQ issue as SCIENCE. We are in a faith vs. science moment. This has happened before.
Think Copernicus and Galileo (persecuted by the Church for simply observing a solar system that seemed contrary to what the Bible says about earth-centricity).
Think Darwin (for simply observing that creatures seem to evolve, challenging the Bible and the Church's doctrine of creation of creatures just as they are).
Today, it is the science of psychology that simply observes that some people are innately same-sex oriented, some are bisexual, some experience gender dysphoria. If that is the way some people SIMPLY ARE, the Church's mission should be to work with creation as it SIMPLY IS. Just as the Church learned to acknowledge the simple existence of the solar system and evolution.
And what if it's that not the science? Currently LGBT advocates have moved away from the "born this way" rhetoric of the early 2000s. Now the argument is mostly about "heteronormativity", that is the notion that nobody is born straight or gay, they are conditioned to be straight by societal norms that value heterosexuality over others. Under their argument, more people are gay nowadays because heteronormativity is less of a problem, and human sexuality has more avenues of expressing itself without barriers to prevent it.
Thing is, if that currently is the mainstream argument, then the biblical argument has more merit. If the heteronormativity lens is true, that sexuality is just an inclination that takes shape by the society that allows and defines its expression, then the Bible says we should control how society allows and defines its expression.
@@sameash3153 The argument "born that way" would be based on the science of biology. That has never been proven.
The argument from psychology that simply recognizes the fact that some people are gay seems to me like recognition of a solar system. People who recognize and accept the fact that they are LGBT tend to create happy families and relationships. Those who are, but are taught by society and church that they are an abomination, do not end up happy.
The GMC seems to be aligning itself with the African Church which, in Uganda for example, is currently sentencing people who say they are gay to life in prison. If that is the company you wish to keep, it's your choice. But I would never consider you a friend, much less a Christian.
@@sameash3153 The science of psychology simply observes that some people simply ARE LGBT, for no known reason. They did not choose it. They just ARE. Like the solar system just IS.
@Fred Philippi Nobody just "is" anything when what is being described is social. Nobody is born with a social disposition, they are socialized into one.
@@sameash3153 All I know is: I knew from the age of 4 or 5 that I AM gay. Also knew, from society and Church, that I must not DO that. When anyone including a Church tells people they cannot act in accordance with who they are, only decades of repression and grief result. Society seems to be learning. I suggest the Church can do better and learn as well.
I feel anyone anyone is welcome at our church, my church had years ago , two lovely gay older men. We loved them , my problem is, pastors should not be gays , Bishops should not be gays. We do not say it is ok, we do not marry them. You can love them but you do not endorse it. The Bible is the word . When church’s have Drag queens come and teach to the kinds in the Church , that is terribly terribly wrong, and shame on the parents for allowing it, Shame on the pastors doing it. I don’t care how woke how everything we do what God says in the Bible. That doesn’t mean you hate the sinner, you hate the sin but love the person. We don’t ignore things in the Bible just because it’s uncomfortable or the world except certain things the Bible is God‘s word.
I agree with Marielee
The sin the issue is incompatible with Christian Teachings ,which is the wording in The Discipline of The UMC , which obviously is incompatible with The Biblical Scriptures as The Christian Teachings.. By listening to.this video it becomes clear about why.and the rules of The UMC for those who are Ordained Pastors of the Churches , and those being in violation of the Discipline . .
😅.It is so.rare to be able to.hezr a speaker enunciating so we'll that ,not hearing well, I can watch and .able to see what you are saying ..The sound on.mynyrsct phone is not very good .Thanks for clearer speech.
I used to be a member - I can’t except this - when it goes against the Bible- No I CANT EXCEPT THIS - I also go by what a Amish man said to me a long time ago - Despise the sin - not the sinner - I don’t hate these people - at all - I see them as lost people - and they need our prayers - But I was raised UMC - but - sadly - can no longer be a member - they the UMC - have left the Bible - I am looking for a new church home. Have visited many church’s now - from Mormon to most all other church - still looking - I’am looking into what all the church’s believe
I'm a member of UMC and I've been proud of the Wesleyan theology. It's so appalling that gay and lesbian clergy members get their JOBS in the UMC and treat the Book of Discipline as meaningless. Why did they come into the UMC and disrupt the identity of UMC? In my view, they are nothing less than prasites who find UMC system so useful and with all the advantages of the church's system they get settled down well and claim that they are the hosts. Why don't they just build the Church of Homosexuals outside the UMC and leave the UMC alone?
Yes I think it is the future of the church
It is so sad that the First United Methodist Church has now joined the Roman Catholic Church in their "blindfolded" reliance on scriptures to justify cruelty to people.
What they are saying is that homosexuality is a choice and the homosexual person chooses to be sinful.
Meanwhile, the reality is that gay people were created by God to be gay and if you don't think this, it is because you are not gay and do not know the territory.
God is our Father and loves us like a father.
We do not need to "earn" His love.
We get it because we identify as His children!
By the way, immoral living is not justified in either the gay or the heterosexual community, so I am not saying that we should be accepting immoral living in any way!
I am talking about the kind of acceptance and reverence Jesus would have for all the people of Earth!
More and more young people are coming to recognize the cruelty perpetrated by many churches regarding the gay issue
and this is why young people are leaving churches in droves and are learning to live without the church in their lives.
Young people refuse "to live in the closet" to hide their gay identity.
They see non-acceptance for what it is: a lack of charity and Jesus would not accept this!
My main point is that gay people should be respected enough that they be allowed to seek a fellow partner and be married,
just as heterosexuals are respected and allowed to seek a partner and be married.
Churches should be on the forefront to allow this to happen.
The fact that the First United Methodist Church has chosen to continue gay discrimination
shows their lack of God's love and lack of the recognition of who Jesus is!
Your argument is based on the premise that people are born gay. Most LGBT movements have moved away from that rhetoric. Right now the younger generation of LGBT advocates argue that everybody has the potential to be gay, it is only our society that conditions heterosexuality.
That is, ironically, closer to the biblical position, where being gay is seen as a conscious behavior that goes against social norms.
Here are the links that are mentioned in the video and the descriptions above:
Miss Penny Cost (Isaac Simmons):
ua-cam.com/video/0eslnjgy45E/v-deo.html
vimeo.com/showcase/9310662/video/753557419
Duke Divinity School Chapel Service (short clip):
ua-cam.com/video/7VT2o6PEm7Y/v-deo.html
Polyamory UMC Pastor in Pittsburgh:
www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/being-a-queer-pastor-isnt-for-the-faint-of-heart/Content?oid=22370650&fbclid=IwAR10Cj5GtrIKGcnXQX2gYtFhDtLFS2giM8O2LYNJggDFoSwOV_Q_r2jIb6U
MS Annual Conference 2009 (via RMN):
ua-cam.com/video/MyH_EzioIJM/v-deo.html
Dallas Morning News in North Texas as well.
Not reallybtrue Those leaving the Traditional UMC are entirely reaponsibile for the publicity against the UMC as irba still..official .
Truth is STRANGER than fiction.
The Holy Bible at my church is. Totally. Not suggestion s . Is a.Bible Church .
Given a year s reprieve I d texted
Christian parents encourage their children to.accept how they ve been born not of other suggestions
At 1:06:53 you say “Someone who’s living an openly sinful life in contrast to what the Bible teaches shouldn’t become a member of the United Methodist Church.” I cannot find support for that in the membership requirements listed in the Book of Discipline. Where is it located?
Presumably you’re not requiring proof of sinlessness to join the church. So, is it only the sins openly viewed by others that would exclude you from membership? Since you state a little further on that “[b]y their very lifestyle they’re teaching something contrary to the word of God” and therefore cannot do things like teach Sunday School, it appears that visibility of the sins is important. Which visible sins are so serious that you may not be a member? You list gay couples and unmarried couples living together. You say there are others. What are they? What about parenting a child outside of marriage? Divorce? Criminal convictions?
How perfect do you need to appear on the outside to be able to join?
If you refuse to believe your sin is actually a sin, you should not become a member. Whether it is adultery, being a continuing thief, or having gay sex.
@@davewil3 Ok, let’s use another example. This is an agricultural community. They harvest crops on Sundays when they need to. Exodus 35:2 says they should be put to death for working on the Sabbath. The people who do this either do not believe working on the Sabbath is a sin, or they do believe it and decide to work anyway. Should they not be members for continuing to sin in this manner?
So very sorry,going against the Bible, is a sin ,all should be welcome in church nottttttt lead, or marry . A cover for head ,can do. Not be lead by a troubled person
Jesus never said one bad word against gays. Not one.
Why do you consider this sin greater than others? All churches are full of sinners. Do you think you are going to have a pure, sinless church when you leave?
It is not a greater sin. But few committing adultery refuse to accept it is wrong. But many refuse to believe gay sex is a sin.
@@davewil3 😅
The sin of unbridled bigotry is overwhelmingly sad. Disaffiliation is good riddance of hateful bigots.
This is no church.this is a bunch of intellectuals trying to figure out God...
Before that can ever happen they will have to Accept Jesus as Lord..but until then they are lost. .Void and without judgement....
ever learning, but Never able to come to the Knowledge of the Truth..
Religions have always evolved and always will. Christianity as we know it was not created, it evolved. Both Christianity, Judism and Islam have major elements of Sufi which preceeded them by hundreds of years. Identification with rigid doctrine is the curse of the world and the root of most of the conflicts that seem to have no end.
I was drawn to an argument between a lawyer and a medical doctor who was carrying a state bill to stop transgender care. The lawyer talked about Swyers Syndrome. Those who have it occur about 1 out of 80,000 births. There were 600 in the state where this argument was taking place. The Swyers baby is born with some female anatomy but has no ovaries and has male sex chromosomes. It may be called 'baby girl' on the birth certificate. However, she, if not rightly identified, begins at puberty to develop male characteristics, not female ones. The lawyer argues that if caught early enough the Swyers baby can be given hormone blockers to stop the masculine traits and the child can retain her female identity. I cannot imagine the distress for the child and family when the girl does not mature in the expected way. She/he is sterile. Why does the Church treat the mature form of this body as if she/he is a homosexual pervert?
Judge not least you be judged. Jesus Never said love one another, except a queer person.
Right. Jesus was meeting and eating with sinners and outcasts, not the folks who were scandalized by his behavior.
When a brother or sister is struggling we are to help
you can be LGBT and Christian 👬
Where do u get ur guidance from ...it's not the Bible
@@virgietoothman1616 what God has done is plain to see. Meaning you don't need your Bible to see it. You just have to open your eyes to see what God has spoken and abide in his word
@@dansaber4427 I don't think So ....I Stay with The Word of God to be My final say ....no matter what I see ..God's Word is Alive , And powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow, and it is a discerner of the intents of the heart..
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. Hebrews 4:12-13
@@virgietoothman1616 it sounds like you've been eating from the Tree of knowledge. What did God say about that?