EXAMPLE 1: the Notebook when Ryan Goslings' character LITERALLY THREATENS TO KILL HIMSELF IF SOME RANDOM WOMAN HE DOESN'T KNOW REFUSES TO GO OUT WITH HIM. And the woman's friends are all "OOH HES SUCH A NICE GUY THOUGH"🙄
Or the other way around, when you're supposed to hate someone but they come across as relateable. Or when someone's suppose to be the butt of every joke, but it just makes all the characters you're suppose to like seem mean for dumping on them.
It would be nice if some character told us that guy is nice AF and later he was revealed to be a nasty arse, just so the MC discovers that said character was in an abusive relationship with that guy and they developed Estocolmo syndrome
Bruna Yamaguchi, Ha this is what I’m doing. The Hero of the story is the narrator of the story, and is portrait as a realy nice and forgiving person, but the story hints at him having harsh judgments on new characters for no reason, but people seem to agree. In the last chapter, it will be in the ‘Villains’ point of view, where the readers see that the ‘Hero’ was using them to stay popular by creating and leading attacks against there self, then blaming it on the ‘villains’. Cuz’ I love misleading readers
I HATE that too. And it happens A LOT. At least in the books I read. And because of that in the fandoms too. I often find it hard6to relate to/like the characters because of that. If you tell me they are a good person then consistently SHOW them being genuinely good! Not just being nice out of pity 2 or 3 times and only nice to the few people they like but being a judgmental jerk with anger management issues all the rest of the time!
An example of showing over telling: George R.R. Martin tells us Gregor Clegane is a nasty person. George R.R. Martin shows Gregor Clegane chopping off his own horse's head in a fit of rage before attacking Ser Loras Tyrell.
@@eavesDropSound Ser Gregor also: -stuffed his brother's face in a hearth fire -raped and murdered Elia Martell -crushed baby Aegon's like a strongman crushing a cantaloupe with his bare hands -tortured Vargo Hoat to death (Vargo was the _only_ person who actually deserved what the Mountain did to him) -crushed Oberyn Martell's head like a watermelon for demanding he confess the aforementioned murders of Elia and Aegon
@@akgwriting9481 Really? Interesting, was it full-on apathy or did they just not click? Personal preference typically doesn’t factor into audience apathy, even characters we don’t like have *something* that registers with us. There is a *steep* difference in saying a character isn’t interesting and saying you don’t care about them.
@@Minnesota_Fatts I'm not entirely sure but honestly they're worse than Elsa from frozen. They don't have a proper personality and the way it's set up in the beginning is just so...I only read the beginning few episodes and I really don't care, I couldn't get myself into it, at all
I felt very much like this after trying to watch the first episode of Arcane. I honestly only remember Silco from the last scene and that was about it. I had a conversation with my friend about it to no avail and don't understand why it even got popular in the first place. I mean I understand why squid game blew up in the first episode, everyone wanted to know what would become of these characters once they re-entered the island. At the end of the first episode for Arcane umm...not so much...
Trying to make the character likeable by having the character do too many good deeds, may backfire by making the character seam unrealistic. 2:25 1. Not conveying the character's personality or conveying an unintended personality. 3:59 2. Telling instead of showing the character's personality. 5:35 3. Showing the character's negative traits but not explaining why the character has those traits. 6:40 4. Not indicating what the character wants or longs for. 7:19 5. Not introducing an obstacle to what the character wants. 8:05 6. The character is a stereotype or a trope. 8:50 7. Not putting the reader in the character's shoes by not giving information from the character's senses.
I've now watched several of your videos. Thank you for jamming them full of USEFUL, RELEVANT information! There's nothing more annoying than clicking on a writing tutorial and having to sit through an impromptu 60-second review of the vlogger's new favorite latte, extraneous info about how they feel about their hairdo that day, or a cameo featuring their boyfriend/girlfriend. Your videos show that you respect your viewers' time, and frankly, I fricken appreciate it. Thanks! Subscribed!
Honestly, I don't mind short interludes. Just because you'd rather forget that the people making the video are in fact human beings with lives, that doesn't mean we're all so quick to dehumanise. Sometimes it's hard to get a take of the video where your dogs/kids/partner isn't interrupting; after all, their lives do not revolve around UA-cam. But sure, if it's going on and on and on, it gets annoying fast. If I click on a seven minute video and the first full 60 seconds has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I'm gonna start getting irritated. That's a full seventh of the video dedicated to something I didn't sign up for.
@@LordofFullmetal You just invalidated her by saying she was "quick to dehumanize," then you validated her same point based on your own personal conditions. The point is, a lot of people don't appreciate the self-indulgent intros. When a UA-camr advertises education, but then tries to get their audience to focus on "the entertainer" rather than the topic itself, it can be frustrating to people who are genuinely trying to learn (regardless of ratios and regardless of the fact that the UA-camrs are also "human beings"). With that being said, not enjoying those types of intros does not mean we are unfeeling people who would "rather forget they are human beings." It's not that cold; we just have a different preference in video styles. We would rather watch something that gets to the point a bit faster. I also agree with the op because this channel not only gets to the point, but has a dense amount of useful information. As aspiring writers, watching this channel is time well spent.
The other day I just clicked and clicked through a video that spent the first 8 minutes of a full 12 minutes talking about extraneous things, and the "meat" of the helpful info was all of about 50 seconds. UA-cam is a wonderful pace and I love it, but not all channels are of the same caliber that's for sure 😆 Watching vloggers is fun, but if a channel or video is billed as a teaching, with a "how to" or a "why" in the title, it's just clickbait if they don't deliver. So grateful for generous people like Ellen!
Friend didn't believe me when i told them you can find tutorials for anything on UA-cam. You just earned me a dollar. Thank you. Oh and subscribe because these are very helpful.
Sara, You wrote this comment nearly a year ago. Are you still writing that story with those characters? Have you overcome this particular issue with them?
Sara Wawa i don't even get half way before not liking my characters xD but truth be told. Half the guys are really bad sons of a bitch because yeah i love my good old mean spirited, selfish etc characters xD
Hey guys! I'm so excited to have a new camera, new mic, and new background! I've wanted to bring you guys higher quality videos since I started my channel so I really hope you enjoy the improvements! (I'm still working on my editing skills.) I appreciate you all supporting me through my technological struggles. Thanks so much for watching! Happy writing!
Thank you! I make videos during my Novel Boot Camp event in the summer, but it's hard for me to find time the rest of the year. I'm going to try to find a way to fit it into my regular schedule. Thanks for watching!
I am amazed and impressed with the thoroughness of her lesson. She’s able to communicate her ideas so succinctly it makes me want to watch more. I wish I had a friend like her.
The tip about characters needing to want something rather than being content with what they have is spot-on (to a point I lose investment in my own characters if they're happy with life), but it also just reminded me of my favorite semi-"subversion" of that. I absolutely adore Reluctant Heroes who _would_ be perfectly happy and have no great aspirations, but get dragged around by the plot and thrown into situations they can't ignore. Of course that creates a situation where they do still have a goal they're striving for, namely getting back to enjoying a normal quiet life, so it's not a full subversion. But I do love where the average protagonist is striving to make things happen, occasionally you find the char who just wants things to stop happening, and I always end up giggling at the thought of a well-written Reluctant Hero and the perpetual state of 'done with everything' that tends to come with it. ♥
AlbinosaurusR3X book ron? Movie ron is painful but Ron from the books is one of my favorite characters. Yes he fucks up a lot. And badly in addition to that. But that's human. No matter what kind of falling out he had with harry he always came back or helped another way. Just remember the ridiculous setup he did to show harry the dragons when he was literary so mad at harry he wouldn't speak to him! That's what i liked about ron. He actually feels more human to me than for instance Harry. Rons behavior even perfectly matches his background. Like he literally knows when he was concieved Molly and Arthur only fucked because they wanted a girl. And one year later a girl comes and steals his spot as the parents darling while he's the smallest and weakest of his brothers. And his only friend he makes on the train is pretty much Wizard Jesus. And Harry, despite all tries of Rowling to make him more human, is a gary stue first order to me. Handsome (and read Harry's description it is attractive especially in later books when he hell knows how despite his abuse in his childhood grows to his fathers height). He has literally no mental scars from the dursleys, handles nearly being killed several times like it's nothing. When he gets pissed it's usually "just" and ofc he doesn't think twice about getting his ass killed to protect everyone. I mean the last bit would even work with the strong inferiority complex Harry SHOULD have. But yeah i think Ron is a far better character. He's by no means flawless not even from a writing perspective, but he makes sense
For me, your advice is not only helpful for storytelling in general, but helps in making my experiential documentation about the ins-and-outs of how I document what's going on in my job, and therefore fortify my chances of defending for myself against a coworker whose accusation is way convinced for anyone to get fooled, but for my way of convincing a supervisor to get what's real about my terrible experience as an employee.
I have been writing a fantasy children's book with my daughter. It is a challenge to make the characters relatable because they are not human. Some of my favorite writers pull it off beautifully, they know how to anthropomorphize their subjects and differentiate their personalities. Your videos have been a big help. Thank you :)
I realized I had a problem with the relationship between two characters that were supposed to like each other. At first, I thought she didn't get enough screen-time (the MC obviously did) so I tried writing more scenes with her. Then I realized that wasn't the problem. The problem was that she didn't speak with the MC enough. She was there, hanging with, but didn't say or interact much. Adding that interaction made it a lot better. Funny how it was so clear in my head when I wrote it, I didn't notice that it was so lacking at first. I had a friend read it and she pointed it out that she didn't like that character and I had to find out why. XD
i was shocked about the sensory information because i had never noticed how important it is but looking back at the books i have read its what can bring me back in the story if the plot subsides.
in the first 5 seconds of your video i picked out ken kesey (one of my faves!), cormac mccarthy, and the scary stories book i read as a child. we have a lot to discuss. lol love the new background!
Ah, man, stupid youtube, didn't notice me that you started doing videos again... on the other hand, now I have almost 20 videos to binge watch :D Superb video and great to have you back!
Great advice, Ellen. I pride myself on being able to create very well rounded characters... So naturally, I'm always paranoid that I'm doing a terrible job of it xD thanks fo offering some hard and fast rules.
For me, what makes Your videos stand out, is Your commitment to adress every question or topic on eye level. I never get the feeling, that You find a topic simple! Keep up the good work!
Hey there! Newcomer here. I don't usually leave comments in the videos I watch, but I'm really enjoying your videos! I am in the process of writing my first novel, and I've been watching pretty much every video I've found about writing on UA-cam. There's lots of great advice out there, but your videos are really concise and to the point, and I love them! They have been very helpful to me. It's great that you don't make long, boring introductions and instead go straight to the point. It also really shows how much you know about the things you are discussing in your videos. Just wanted to say that! I hope someday, when I finish my novel (so in about a zillion years, because I'm going at a George R.R. Martin pace here) I can hire your services as an editor! You really convey how proficient you are at your craft! Keep being awesome! And congrats on the new cam and mic!
This is just what I need, really looking forward to these coming videos as they'll be helpful in writing my novel. When you mentioned tropes and stereotypes my mind went straight to my antagonist so I'm glad that you're talking about antagonists in tomorrow's video. Thanks for the writing advice
I think I got the characters being likable part done. Well at least with the small group of people that read the book I’m currently writing, so I’ll find out in the future if my characters are actually likable.
Wow. You are awesome! As another person pointed out: Your sound quality is wonderful. Your speaking is clear and to the point. Your attitude is totally professional while being very positive and encouraging. Your knowledge of the subject and ability to convey that knowledge is exceptional. Very impressive. Thank you so much for these videos. I'm honestly not really planning to write fiction. I am watching because I am planning to run an old-school AD&D game for my family and what is that but telling a story? Maybe someday I'll write a work of fiction. Maybe not. Until then you are helping me to be a better story-teller and I am very thankful that you decided to make these videos.
First time writing really trying to get through more than 2 chapters of a book, still word building and 7 chapters in and I SUPER NEEDED THIS!! I love reading and what i was writing just was not reflecting what I love in characters and all of the points you made make total sense. Defs need more sensory info, and also the thing about establishing the characters drive and personality int he first chapter were super clarifying! I also just got a great idea of what to introduce as a first 'hurdle' for my character to encounter before the main action starts to happen! Thank you so much!!
You are doing an amazing job instructing us on making the best of what we write. Im doing a big corse on how to write a great novel. It's a school. You talk about all the things we learn there. I miss one lesson that you really should talk about. Tell about the importans of "show, don't tell" and how to to this. You can Also talk about the importance of having a pilot reader, cause that's the best help you can get! Another and last advice is to talk about the most important part on how to succeed on getting your novel/book published. That is to never give up, be stubbern and listen to what the pilot reader tells you, or the publisher tells you to improve. It's important not to feel its you that's getting criticized when you get critics. It's your text. and you need to distance yourself from your text to be able to take the criticism on a constructive and helpful way. The advice given, is there to help you improve your Self. I have a very nice scale on giving the best feedback as a pilot reader. The person should either be a Profesional or a person who has a lot of interests in reading books. You should have more than one pilot. One who can be strict and direct with you, and one that inspire and lifts you up. the last of Theese two, should be a person close to you who want to give you mostly good feedback, so you don't loose faith in yourself.one key on giving a good feedback as the strict one is to start of saying something positive, something you really like about the text, for then to give the critics that should be improved, why this is, and mabe even an example. "I like that Maria is a strong character, and you start of in a strong way that takes the reader on a journey. I miss that you don't describe the personality of the character enough, so I can't really relate or sympathize with her , and this could be improved by....yeah you see where I'm, going. When your done, you should always end up saying something positive again. This is the best psychologically way to not drag the writer down, but inspire to improve. Hope you can take some of this with you, and make a video or mabe more about the topics. Again, your a really good teacher, and it's good that you help us in our process. I'm from Norway, so I'm not writing perfectly English... Hope you still understand where I'm going with this 😁 have a nice day!!
YES! Brilliant! This is exactly what I currently deal with in my writing: I have this character I know everything about, but struggle so hard to show their personality to the reader. Works so fluent with other characters. Especially one anti hero I started to write as a joke became somehow the best, most relatable, most grounded character - also he effortlessly connects all of the plot lines- I myself don't understand how that even happened. But that other character I originally wanted to write, she is my problem - I guess it's BECAUSE I know everything about her. I got to know the anti hero by writing him. He just came to life on paper. She existed with all her life already in my head and I struggle to get her down on paper.
You've got another subscriber and a like. keep up the good work. One way I could show guilt is: "Did you take cookies from the cookie jar?" asked mother. Jacob glanced away, frowned, placed his hands behind his back, and shook his head. "No," he replied. I shouldn't lie to my mother, he thought, she'll ground me for a month, but the cookies were so good and delicious. What's your thoughts Ellen? There's some cases where I struggle with identifying some emotions. In my writing, I did got out of writing: "Joe smiled, happily as he ran down the hill." I try to think how a person who is normally happy would express that. "Joe smiled from ear to ear, giggling as he ran down the hill. I have a bad habit of mixing present tense with past tense. However, if I changed "giggling" to "giggled" to me it doesn't make any sense. You know? Perhaps the "as" could be turned into "while". I'm not entirely sure.
Having listened to several of your programs, I want to thank-you for all your helpful tips. I look forward to listening to your advice in the future as an aspiring writer.
Great video! I love your approach in sharing your information to those who want to learn. There are other UA-camrs out there that are very condescending in how they've done their videos... (i.e. yeah tropes... "DON'T DO THAT"). Your method is very helpful. Thank you Ellen!
Great to see another video from you! I've been struggling with my novel and hopefully another round of Novel Boot Camp will get me back on track! I think you give fantastic advice and it's great to have an editor's perspective on writing. I even hope to utilize your editing and/or mentoring services one day, and actually have an inquiry email saved in my drafts for when I am ready to take the next step in my novel writing journey. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing more great advice videos from you!
This video makes me curious about Severus Snape. He wasn't very dynamic in the first book, but I'm sure a lot of people were surprised that they cared about his fate. What if his initial characterization was rejected for being too flat?
Given that Snape was a minor character in the beginning, this would not have mattered. Also, because his secrets are not revealed until the climax of the series, it's best to have his true persona hiding behind a veneer of seemingly cliche villainy.
I think it also has something to do with the first books being more childish. Kids usually see characters as good or bad, older readers, around let's say, book four can get the grasp of a grey character and their struggle apart from the protaginist's
Hi Ellen, Long time no see. It's really good to see someone who knows what they are talking about. Thanks for everything. You make me think about things I have written and to go back and check them again to see if they can be improved upon. thanks again. P.S. My son is a redhead, there are many in my family.
When you were saying about people disliking a character then you have to remember that's good. They hate this person, you've evoked a strong feeling within a person and that's great! The bad thing is people not caring, or the 'eh, they're alright'. Those feelings won't make people want to read more.
Great video! Tip 7 is certainly important. If you can't feel what the character is feeling, then you can't be connected. (Wow, you've got a pile of books!)
for the fifth reason when you said to create a smaller problem, that’s exactly how my book starts, the real conflict wont start until the second chapter but in the firsts she has drama with her crush
I've only just discovered your channel and I am so happy I found you! I've been trying to maker a graphic novel for a while now and your videos are helping me so much with figuring out how to put together my plot, story arcs, and world building. Thank you so much!!
Thank you so much! My sister and I are aspiring authors- well, I'm an aspiring author, she already writes. Anyways! I'm trying to weave through ideas for my novel, which doesn't have a name yet.. heh. This is actually helping me a lot, so thank you again!
You're back!! So glad :) I always LOVE and get so much out of your videos Ellen!! The new camera and other equipment really does make a difference too! Can't wait to see more! 😃
Awesome video. I learned a lot from you. I'm just starting to write again after many many years of not writing! Thank you for all this helpful information!
Love listening to you talk, you are so right to the point, and with Clear examples you really make it easy to understand what you mean. Thank you for sharing all this information for free
Thank you for this great video! I'm working on editing a novel at the moment, and your advice here has given me some ideas on how to strengthen my characters. I look forward to your antagonist video; I want to be able to transfer the crazy, scary onto the page as well as possible.
I usually stop connecting with characters when they start making really stupid decisions. Then you're stuck wondering if they're an idiot or if you missed something. Especially when these dumb decisions are the only form of problem and the only thing driving the plot.
Thanks for another great video Ellen. Any chance you'll ever do a genre specific series? I write category romance and would love to hear advice on character and plot specific to this and other genres.
Omg!!! thank you of r replying!!! AAAHH I am like totally fan-girling! I watched all you videos and I was wondering how all these were applied into books that I've read. Thank you so much!! looking forward!
I love the advices you share, well I'm trying to write a screenplay therefore compelling characters are essential for this too, so I find your videos (specially this one) very useful to me. Thank you so much.
That’s really funny. Tyler Durden was the first character I thought of when you said characters don’t need to be nice to be likable. The second one was Alex DeLarge who is even more of a violent psycho, and yet still a loved protagonist. Mostly because he is interesting and charming.
I always enjoy your videos, so don't take this the wrong way, i am not yelling in my response. But I have to comment on a few things. The repetitive idea that we shouldn't do the orphan child or magical baby. I get that one and I know you said it's not impossible, but it depends on the genre, and typically a certain group of people actually rely on this sort of story. They like that idea of being re-born or living another life (I know I do) usually finding out they were adopted. Not to mention as I have in the past, that so many new books that are hitting high-end publishers are continually repeating these "Stereotype" characters we are told time after time from vloggers and even some published authors not to do. It's a very dangerous conundrum that could leave a writer feeling down or hopeless. There are too many suggestions and rules that authors themselves don't follow. I also agree it's time to change how stories are written. I too am tired of the typical "stereotype" but chances are for new writers watching this, it will make things impossible to start off being too different. it can get confusing. A writer should always write what they feel they want in the story and make it interesting with some diversity. 2nd is the "awkward girl." Of course, that's my opinion. I will tell you, that many people who read and write, are already awkward. it's because it is becoming extremely rare and it takes a specific mindset to read now. Sorry to say most of them are strange. but that's ok I think strange can be good. We relate to this one the most because it is intriguing, it makes us dig further into the book. However, as a reader/writer, i want to know why? If there is a strange girl roaming a workplace, i want to know what's up. "Why is she/he awkward?" maybe something comes up that justifies the awkwardness; an abusive father/mother. Sensation or urge to kill or fight and they are trying to hold it in. Maybe they are OCD with stealing. Maybe it's to feel attracted to others, so a girl or boy walking the halls of high school "Freshmen year" is actually the most relatable character there is. And let's take the big picture, the story is always going to be more dramatic than your average real life. so why wouldn't the characters start off as awkward? Nobody is immune to those emotions ;) That said. sorry for the long book, but I am on 2 cups of death wish coffee and I can't sleep. But no fuss, I love your videos, i think you are "THE MOST" brilliant (with all these quotations i'm starting to feel like dr. evil from Austin Powers ) V-Logger and Editor that there is on youtube. and twitter. That's why I subscribed and follow you. I take in about 90% of your advice honestly. I wanted to work with you before I got an agent, but you were very difficult to get a hold of.
I hate, hate, HATE when others in a story talk about how sickly nice a character is but the way they are actually portrayed just makes them creepy.
EXAMPLE 1: the Notebook when Ryan Goslings' character LITERALLY THREATENS TO KILL HIMSELF IF SOME RANDOM WOMAN HE DOESN'T KNOW REFUSES TO GO OUT WITH HIM. And the woman's friends are all "OOH HES SUCH A NICE GUY THOUGH"🙄
Or the other way around, when you're supposed to hate someone but they come across as relateable. Or when someone's suppose to be the butt of every joke, but it just makes all the characters you're suppose to like seem mean for dumping on them.
It would be nice if some character told us that guy is nice AF and later he was revealed to be a nasty arse, just so the MC discovers that said character was in an abusive relationship with that guy and they developed Estocolmo syndrome
Bruna Yamaguchi, Ha this is what I’m doing. The Hero of the story is the narrator of the story, and is portrait as a realy nice and forgiving person, but the story hints at him having harsh judgments on new characters for no reason, but people seem to agree. In the last chapter, it will be in the ‘Villains’ point of view, where the readers see that the ‘Hero’ was using them to stay popular by creating and leading attacks against there self, then blaming it on the ‘villains’. Cuz’ I love misleading readers
I HATE that too.
And it happens A LOT. At least in the books I read.
And because of that in the fandoms too.
I often find it hard6to relate to/like the characters because of that.
If you tell me they are a good person then consistently SHOW them being genuinely good! Not just being nice out of pity 2 or 3 times and only nice to the few people they like but being a judgmental jerk with anger management issues all the rest of the time!
I love that there is 0% fat in these videos. I feel like there wasn't a second I wasn't learning something. Thankyou.
Ikr? She's always on point with her videos. Just straight to the point. Love it.
@@kristinaa.2911 Yeah. I feel like I've become a better writer, not only from listening to the content but also the delivery.
@@Randomcorpse Totally agreed
*Sugar. Fat is good for you.
An example of showing over telling:
George R.R. Martin tells us Gregor Clegane is a nasty person.
George R.R. Martin shows Gregor Clegane chopping off his own horse's head in a fit of rage before attacking Ser Loras Tyrell.
I liked him, both the Cleganes. :D
Maybe the horse was evil and nasty.
breh. dats fucked up.
@@wjrasmussen666 Ser Loras's mare was in heat. Ser Gregor's horse was horny, so he beheaded it in a fit of rage.
@@eavesDropSound Ser Gregor also:
-stuffed his brother's face in a hearth fire
-raped and murdered Elia Martell
-crushed baby Aegon's like a strongman crushing a cantaloupe with his bare hands
-tortured Vargo Hoat to death (Vargo was the _only_ person who actually deserved what the Mountain did to him)
-crushed Oberyn Martell's head like a watermelon for demanding he confess the aforementioned murders of Elia and Aegon
The worst words someone can say about your characters: “I don’t care about/what happens to any of these people.”
Ikr, I just reading Tower of God and Noblesse on webtoon and those were my thoughts about them
@@akgwriting9481 Really? Interesting, was it full-on apathy or did they just not click? Personal preference typically doesn’t factor into audience apathy, even characters we don’t like have *something* that registers with us. There is a *steep* difference in saying a character isn’t interesting and saying you don’t care about them.
@@Minnesota_Fatts I'm not entirely sure but honestly they're worse than Elsa from frozen. They don't have a proper personality and the way it's set up in the beginning is just so...I only read the beginning few episodes and I really don't care, I couldn't get myself into it, at all
I felt very much like this after trying to watch the first episode of Arcane. I honestly only remember Silco from the last scene and that was about it. I had a conversation with my friend about it to no avail and don't understand why it even got popular in the first place. I mean I understand why squid game blew up in the first episode, everyone wanted to know what would become of these characters once they re-entered the island. At the end of the first episode for Arcane umm...not so much...
Trying to make the character likeable by having the character do too many good deeds, may backfire by making the character seam unrealistic.
2:25 1. Not conveying the character's personality or conveying an unintended personality.
3:59 2. Telling instead of showing the character's personality.
5:35 3. Showing the character's negative traits but not explaining why the character has those traits.
6:40 4. Not indicating what the character wants or longs for.
7:19 5. Not introducing an obstacle to what the character wants.
8:05 6. The character is a stereotype or a trope.
8:50 7. Not putting the reader in the character's shoes by not giving information from the character's senses.
tysm!
ty !!
What kind of monster hates Winnie the Pooh?
He's kinda annoying
He's an icon of patriarchy. A reason will be found.
Oh bother
My mother wasn't fond of the books.
The antagonist
I've now watched several of your videos. Thank you for jamming them full of USEFUL, RELEVANT information! There's nothing more annoying than clicking on a writing tutorial and having to sit through an impromptu 60-second review of the vlogger's new favorite latte, extraneous info about how they feel about their hairdo that day, or a cameo featuring their boyfriend/girlfriend. Your videos show that you respect your viewers' time, and frankly, I fricken appreciate it. Thanks! Subscribed!
Honestly, I don't mind short interludes. Just because you'd rather forget that the people making the video are in fact human beings with lives, that doesn't mean we're all so quick to dehumanise. Sometimes it's hard to get a take of the video where your dogs/kids/partner isn't interrupting; after all, their lives do not revolve around UA-cam.
But sure, if it's going on and on and on, it gets annoying fast. If I click on a seven minute video and the first full 60 seconds has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I'm gonna start getting irritated. That's a full seventh of the video dedicated to something I didn't sign up for.
@@LordofFullmetal You just invalidated her by saying she was "quick to dehumanize," then you validated her same point based on your own personal conditions. The point is, a lot of people don't appreciate the self-indulgent intros. When a UA-camr advertises education, but then tries to get their audience to focus on "the entertainer" rather than the topic itself, it can be frustrating to people who are genuinely trying to learn (regardless of ratios and regardless of the fact that the UA-camrs are also "human beings"). With that being said, not enjoying those types of intros does not mean we are unfeeling people who would "rather forget they are human beings." It's not that cold; we just have a different preference in video styles. We would rather watch something that gets to the point a bit faster.
I also agree with the op because this channel not only gets to the point, but has a dense amount of useful information. As aspiring writers, watching this channel is time well spent.
The other day I just clicked and clicked through a video that spent the first 8 minutes of a full 12 minutes talking about extraneous things, and the "meat" of the helpful info was all of about 50 seconds. UA-cam is a wonderful pace and I love it, but not all channels are of the same caliber that's for sure 😆 Watching vloggers is fun, but if a channel or video is billed as a teaching, with a "how to" or a "why" in the title, it's just clickbait if they don't deliver. So grateful for generous people like Ellen!
Wait, who doesn't like Winnie? He's a chubby little cubby all stuffed with fluff! He's a silly willy nilly old bear! I love Winnie!
BrookLynn Yates. I don't like him.always hated his voice .
Oh wow your pic is a painting I have on my wall. Been in my house since I was little.
I hate him because I see myself in him... :C
Ever heard of Xi Jinping?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping
"He???"
Friend didn't believe me when i told them you can find tutorials for anything on UA-cam. You just earned me a dollar. Thank you. Oh and subscribe because these are very helpful.
Agreed
Im here because part way through writing my stories I find I don't like my own characters lol
Wawa me to...
Sara Wawa I think that's a form of social anxiety
Sara,
You wrote this comment nearly a year ago. Are you still writing that story with those characters? Have you overcome this particular issue with them?
^^
Sara Wawa i don't even get half way before not liking my characters xD but truth be told. Half the guys are really bad sons of a bitch because yeah i love my good old mean spirited, selfish etc characters xD
Hey guys! I'm so excited to have a new camera, new mic, and new background!
I've wanted to bring you guys higher quality videos since I started my channel so I really hope you enjoy the improvements! (I'm still working on my editing skills.)
I appreciate you all supporting me through my technological struggles. Thanks so much for watching! Happy writing!
You come and go in waves but so happy when you are back.
Thank you! I make videos during my Novel Boot Camp event in the summer, but it's hard for me to find time the rest of the year. I'm going to try to find a way to fit it into my regular schedule. Thanks for watching!
Great to see you back, Ellen. Thanks for all you do.
Ellen Brock the sound and overall video quality has gotten so much better over the years :)
Ellen Brock welcome back
thank you, im a very young writer with a crazy story, and only 10K words, and this helps me see my mistakes more clearly.
I am amazed and impressed with the thoroughness of her lesson. She’s able to communicate her ideas so succinctly it makes me want to watch more. I wish I had a friend like her.
The tip about characters needing to want something rather than being content with what they have is spot-on (to a point I lose investment in my own characters if they're happy with life), but it also just reminded me of my favorite semi-"subversion" of that.
I absolutely adore Reluctant Heroes who _would_ be perfectly happy and have no great aspirations, but get dragged around by the plot and thrown into situations they can't ignore. Of course that creates a situation where they do still have a goal they're striving for, namely getting back to enjoying a normal quiet life, so it's not a full subversion. But I do love where the average protagonist is striving to make things happen, occasionally you find the char who just wants things to stop happening, and I always end up giggling at the thought of a well-written Reluctant Hero and the perpetual state of 'done with everything' that tends to come with it. ♥
WHO THE HECK SAID THEY DIDN'T LIKE SAMWISE GAMGEE
STEP UP AND FIGHT ME YOU COWARDS!!
Milkywolf Z my reaction exactly ✊
And Winnie the Pooh!!!!! What?!?!?! How do you hate them??????!!!!
I don't like him, sorry XP
Is there anyone who can honestly say they liked Ron Weasley? I think not.
AlbinosaurusR3X book ron? Movie ron is painful but Ron from the books is one of my favorite characters. Yes he fucks up a lot. And badly in addition to that. But that's human. No matter what kind of falling out he had with harry he always came back or helped another way. Just remember the ridiculous setup he did to show harry the dragons when he was literary so mad at harry he wouldn't speak to him! That's what i liked about ron. He actually feels more human to me than for instance Harry. Rons behavior even perfectly matches his background. Like he literally knows when he was concieved Molly and Arthur only fucked because they wanted a girl. And one year later a girl comes and steals his spot as the parents darling while he's the smallest and weakest of his brothers. And his only friend he makes on the train is pretty much Wizard Jesus.
And Harry, despite all tries of Rowling to make him more human, is a gary stue first order to me. Handsome (and read Harry's description it is attractive especially in later books when he hell knows how despite his abuse in his childhood grows to his fathers height). He has literally no mental scars from the dursleys, handles nearly being killed several times like it's nothing. When he gets pissed it's usually "just" and ofc he doesn't think twice about getting his ass killed to protect everyone. I mean the last bit would even work with the strong inferiority complex Harry SHOULD have. But yeah i think Ron is a far better character. He's by no means flawless not even from a writing perspective, but he makes sense
Number 1 should have been: Stop creating obvious Mary Sue's. 😂
Thanks for the tips! Can be really helpful
Miss Mermade to be fair, Mary Sues can easily be a topic for a whole video like this: ua-cam.com/video/H2-GIY9RTqU/v-deo.html
For me, your advice is not only helpful for storytelling in general, but helps in making my experiential documentation about the ins-and-outs of how I document what's going on in my job, and therefore fortify my chances of defending for myself against a coworker whose accusation is way convinced for anyone to get fooled, but for my way of convincing a supervisor to get what's real about my terrible experience as an employee.
I have been writing a fantasy children's book with my daughter. It is a challenge to make the characters relatable because they are not human. Some of my favorite writers pull it off beautifully, they know how to anthropomorphize their subjects and differentiate their personalities. Your videos have been a big help. Thank you :)
I realized I had a problem with the relationship between two characters that were supposed to like each other. At first, I thought she didn't get enough screen-time (the MC obviously did) so I tried writing more scenes with her. Then I realized that wasn't the problem. The problem was that she didn't speak with the MC enough. She was there, hanging with, but didn't say or interact much. Adding that interaction made it a lot better. Funny how it was so clear in my head when I wrote it, I didn't notice that it was so lacking at first. I had a friend read it and she pointed it out that she didn't like that character and I had to find out why. XD
I had been having a hard time writing and just hating my own character. Thank you for this video.
i was shocked about the sensory information because i had never noticed how important it is but looking back at the books i have read its what can bring me back in the story if the plot subsides.
in the first 5 seconds of your video i picked out ken kesey (one of my faves!), cormac mccarthy, and the scary stories book i read as a child. we have a lot to discuss. lol
love the new background!
I wish the background were a bit clearer because I put so many good books on the shelves! Glad you like it!
Ah, man, stupid youtube, didn't notice me that you started doing videos again... on the other hand, now I have almost 20 videos to binge watch :D
Superb video and great to have you back!
Great advice, Ellen. I pride myself on being able to create very well rounded characters... So naturally, I'm always paranoid that I'm doing a terrible job of it xD thanks fo offering some hard and fast rules.
For me, what makes Your videos stand out, is Your commitment to adress every question or topic on eye level. I never get the feeling, that You find a topic simple! Keep up the good work!
Great to see a new Ellen video! My goal is to use your editing service when I'm done with my novel(s), one beautiful day!
Hey there! Newcomer here. I don't usually leave comments in the videos I watch, but I'm really enjoying your videos!
I am in the process of writing my first novel, and I've been watching pretty much every video I've found about writing on UA-cam. There's lots of great advice out there, but your videos are really concise and to the point, and I love them! They have been very helpful to me. It's great that you don't make long, boring introductions and instead go straight to the point. It also really shows how much you know about the things you are discussing in your videos.
Just wanted to say that! I hope someday, when I finish my novel (so in about a zillion years, because I'm going at a George R.R. Martin pace here) I can hire your services as an editor! You really convey how proficient you are at your craft!
Keep being awesome! And congrats on the new cam and mic!
This is just what I need, really looking forward to these coming videos as they'll be helpful in writing my novel. When you mentioned tropes and stereotypes my mind went straight to my antagonist so I'm glad that you're talking about antagonists in tomorrow's video. Thanks for the writing advice
Somehow UA-cam knows I am writing a novel and suggested me this video. This helped thanks!
I think I got the characters being likable part done. Well at least with the small group of people that read the book I’m currently writing, so I’ll find out in the future if my characters are actually likable.
Wow. You are awesome! As another person pointed out: Your sound quality is wonderful. Your speaking is clear and to the point. Your attitude is totally professional while being very positive and encouraging. Your knowledge of the subject and ability to convey that knowledge is exceptional. Very impressive.
Thank you so much for these videos. I'm honestly not really planning to write fiction. I am watching because I am planning to run an old-school AD&D game for my family and what is that but telling a story? Maybe someday I'll write a work of fiction. Maybe not. Until then you are helping me to be a better story-teller and I am very thankful that you decided to make these videos.
WELCOME BACK!!!! YOUR VIDEOS ARE THE BEST!
Your videos are very helpful and they inspire me to keep improving my writing!
First time writing really trying to get through more than 2 chapters of a book, still word building and 7 chapters in and I SUPER NEEDED THIS!!
I love reading and what i was writing just was not reflecting what I love in characters and all of the points you made make total sense.
Defs need more sensory info, and also the thing about establishing the characters drive and personality int he first chapter were super clarifying! I also just got a great idea of what to introduce as a first 'hurdle' for my character to encounter before the main action starts to happen!
Thank you so much!!
world building**
THe only crappy thing is now that i have to rewrite my entire story so far RIP
Finally! An list video with the list in the description.
You are doing an amazing job instructing us on making the best of what we write. Im doing a big corse on how to write a great novel. It's a school. You talk about all the things we learn there. I miss one lesson that you really should talk about. Tell about the importans of "show, don't tell" and how to to this.
You can Also talk about the importance of having a pilot reader, cause that's the best help you can get!
Another and last advice is to talk about the most important part on how to succeed on getting your novel/book published. That is to never give up, be stubbern and listen to what the pilot reader tells you, or the publisher tells you to improve. It's important not to feel its you that's getting criticized when you get critics. It's your text. and you need to distance yourself from your text to be able to take the criticism on a constructive and helpful way. The advice given, is there to help you improve your Self. I have a very nice scale on giving the best feedback as a pilot reader. The person should either be a Profesional or a person who has a lot of interests in reading books. You should have more than one pilot. One who can be strict and direct with you, and one that inspire and lifts you up. the last of Theese two, should be a person close to you who want to give you mostly good feedback, so you don't loose faith in yourself.one key on giving a good feedback as the strict one is to start of saying something positive, something you really like about the text, for then to give the critics that should be improved, why this is, and mabe even an example. "I like that Maria is a strong character, and you start of in a strong way that takes the reader on a journey. I miss that you don't describe the personality of the character enough, so I can't really relate or sympathize with her , and this could be improved by....yeah you see where I'm, going. When your done, you should always end up saying something positive again. This is the best psychologically way to not drag the writer down, but inspire to improve.
Hope you can take some of this with you, and make a video or mabe more about the topics. Again, your a really good teacher, and it's good that you help us in our process. I'm from Norway, so I'm not writing perfectly English... Hope you still understand where I'm going with this 😁 have a nice day!!
Wait, there are people that hate Samwise!?
I am shook lol
I know making novels is very different, but i find this very useful for scripting
YES! Brilliant! This is exactly what I currently deal with in my writing: I have this character I know everything about, but struggle so hard to show their personality to the reader. Works so fluent with other characters. Especially one anti hero I started to write as a joke became somehow the best, most relatable, most grounded character - also he effortlessly connects all of the plot lines- I myself don't understand how that even happened. But that other character I originally wanted to write, she is my problem - I guess it's BECAUSE I know everything about her. I got to know the anti hero by writing him. He just came to life on paper. She existed with all her life already in my head and I struggle to get her down on paper.
So glad you're back, Ellen! I love your videos!
You've got another subscriber and a like. keep up the good work. One way I could show guilt is: "Did you take cookies from the cookie jar?" asked mother. Jacob glanced away, frowned, placed his hands behind his back, and shook his head. "No," he replied. I shouldn't lie to my mother, he thought, she'll ground me for a month, but the cookies were so good and delicious. What's your thoughts Ellen? There's some cases where I struggle with identifying some emotions. In my writing, I did got out of writing: "Joe smiled, happily as he ran down the hill." I try to think how a person who is normally happy would express that. "Joe smiled from ear to ear, giggling as he ran down the hill. I have a bad habit of mixing present tense with past tense. However, if I changed "giggling" to "giggled" to me it doesn't make any sense. You know? Perhaps the "as" could be turned into "while". I'm not entirely sure.
Having listened to several of your programs, I want to thank-you for all your helpful tips. I look forward to listening to your advice in the future as an aspiring writer.
Great video! I love your approach in sharing your information to those who want to learn. There are other UA-camrs out there that are very condescending in how they've done their videos... (i.e. yeah tropes... "DON'T DO THAT"). Your method is very helpful. Thank you Ellen!
Great to see another video from you! I've been struggling with my novel and hopefully another round of Novel Boot Camp will get me back on track!
I think you give fantastic advice and it's great to have an editor's perspective on writing. I even hope to utilize your editing and/or mentoring services one day, and actually have an inquiry email saved in my drafts for when I am ready to take the next step in my novel writing journey.
In the meantime, I look forward to seeing more great advice videos from you!
Thank you! I have a lot of videos planned for August so I really hope they help you out!
This video makes me curious about Severus Snape. He wasn't very dynamic in the first book, but I'm sure a lot of people were surprised that they cared about his fate. What if his initial characterization was rejected for being too flat?
Given that Snape was a minor character in the beginning, this would not have mattered. Also, because his secrets are not revealed until the climax of the series, it's best to have his true persona hiding behind a veneer of seemingly cliche villainy.
I think it also has something to do with the first books being more childish. Kids usually see characters as good or bad, older readers, around let's say, book four can get the grasp of a grey character and their struggle apart from the protaginist's
@@noahhenson1669 I never liked that in the last book. It felt like this giant info dump at the very end
Hi Ellen, Long time no see. It's really good to see someone who knows what they are talking about. Thanks for everything. You make me think about things I have written and to go back and check them again to see if they can be improved upon. thanks again.
P.S. My son is a redhead, there are many in my family.
Great update. Keep up the good work. I know you are busy, but PLEASE don't forget to feed that 'triceratops'
When you were saying about people disliking a character then you have to remember that's good. They hate this person, you've evoked a strong feeling within a person and that's great! The bad thing is people not caring, or the 'eh, they're alright'. Those feelings won't make people want to read more.
Great video! Tip 7 is certainly important. If you can't feel what the character is feeling, then you can't be connected. (Wow, you've got a pile of books!)
You got a new subscriber! I hope you can help an excited beginner like me :P
Glad to have you back! Love your videos, they've helped me grow in my story telling. Keep up the good work.
for the fifth reason when you said to create a smaller problem, that’s exactly how my book starts, the real conflict wont start until the second chapter but in the firsts she has drama with her crush
I've only just discovered your channel and I am so happy I found you! I've been trying to maker a graphic novel for a while now and your videos are helping me so much with figuring out how to put together my plot, story arcs, and world building. Thank you so much!!
Ellen, I really love your videos. This one has been particularly useful. Thanks!
Yesss! you are back❤ loving your background
Thank you! I worked really hard on it!
Great to see you making videos again!
She's back!
Thank you so much! My sister and I are aspiring authors- well, I'm an aspiring author, she already writes. Anyways! I'm trying to weave through ideas for my novel, which doesn't have a name yet.. heh. This is actually helping me a lot, so thank you again!
Your videos are good. I just feel overwhelmed by the complexities you've pointed out.
So very happy to see you back in fabulous form Ellen!
P.S. Love the background and sound quality is much improved :-)
Yaaayyy !! Your videos are immensely helpful, and I'm so happy you've returned. Thank you for all your hard work, Ellen !
You're back!! So glad :) I always LOVE and get so much out of your videos Ellen!! The new camera and other equipment really does make a difference too! Can't wait to see more! 😃
Awesome video. I learned a lot from you. I'm just starting to write again after many many years of not writing! Thank you for all this helpful information!
Love listening to you talk, you are so right to the point, and with Clear examples you really make it easy to understand what you mean. Thank you for sharing all this information for free
I'm writing my first novel right now and these videos have been so helpful! Thank you very much!
welcome back!
Thank you for this great video! I'm working on editing a novel at the moment, and your advice here has given me some ideas on how to strengthen my characters. I look forward to your antagonist video; I want to be able to transfer the crazy, scary onto the page as well as possible.
I usually stop connecting with characters when they start making really stupid decisions. Then you're stuck wondering if they're an idiot or if you missed something. Especially when these dumb decisions are the only form of problem and the only thing driving the plot.
Thanks for another great video Ellen. Any chance you'll ever do a genre specific series? I write category romance and would love to hear advice on character and plot specific to this and other genres.
This is definitely something I'd like to do someday. I just have to find the time to get it organized!
nice to see your back.
Thank you so much! I've learned a lot from your videos. Straight to the point, clear explanation and some good examples. I hope to see more of you😊💓
Glad you're back. Love your content.
Tips start at 2:26
love the new camera and background!!!
Thank you! I'm really glad!
Omg!!! thank you of r replying!!! AAAHH I am like totally fan-girling! I watched all you videos and I was wondering how all these were applied into books that I've read. Thank you so much!! looking forward!
Thank you for the awesome advice! Great to see you back.
Ellen, really enjoy all your videos, but this one was by far the most helpful for me. Learned a lot in ten minutes. Keep up the good work!
Very nice! I can tell this is going to be very useful to me and others - It's useful already. Looking forwards to more content.
This was the second video of yours that I watched. Your points are very helpful and well articulated. Keep up the good work.
Thanks
I think this is your best video yet.
So happy to have new videos! Your previous ones have helped me a lot! ^_^
You're back!!!!! Hooray!!!!
I love the advices you share, well I'm trying to write a screenplay therefore compelling characters are essential for this too, so I find your videos (specially this one) very useful to me. Thank you so much.
I'm glad you made this video.
And I already watched the antagonist video :)
I'm enjoying your videos. They're reinforcing my confidence, it seems I'm actually a good writer.
I really appreciate these videos. They've been very helpful so far. Thank you!
Yay! So happy you're back!!
I like you, you have a great manner of delivery. Also your advice is helpful :D thanks for making these!
You're back! Thank you so much for your videos!
Glad to see you're back!
That’s really funny. Tyler Durden was the first character I thought of when you said characters don’t need to be nice to be likable. The second one was Alex DeLarge who is even more of a violent psycho, and yet still a loved protagonist. Mostly because he is interesting and charming.
Please keep doing your videos, I love them all.
I highly recommend: "Characters Make Your Story" by Maren Elwood and "Story Plotting Simplified" by Eric Heath. Wish you luck!
lol, I haven't even finished the video. But in 0:25 - 0:31 Loki was running around in my head. *drool* soooo beautiful. X.X
You are super-articulate, with really useful info. Thanks
Whee! Great to see you back, love your content! :)
Who can hate Sam Gamgee and Winnie the Pooh???😭
But I definitely get what you're saying! Your videos are wonderful!
Thank you so much! Looking forward to the next videos.
I always enjoy your videos, so don't take this the wrong way, i am not yelling in my response. But I have to comment on a few things.
The repetitive idea that we shouldn't do the orphan child or magical baby. I get that one and I know you said it's not impossible, but it depends on the genre, and typically a certain group of people actually rely on this sort of story. They like that idea of being re-born or living another life (I know I do) usually finding out they were adopted. Not to mention as I have in the past, that so many new books that are hitting high-end publishers are continually repeating these "Stereotype" characters we are told time after time from vloggers and even some published authors not to do. It's a very dangerous conundrum that could leave a writer feeling down or hopeless. There are too many suggestions and rules that authors themselves don't follow. I also agree it's time to change how stories are written. I too am tired of the typical "stereotype" but chances are for new writers watching this, it will make things impossible to start off being too different. it can get confusing. A writer should always write what they feel they want in the story and make it interesting with some diversity.
2nd is the "awkward girl." Of course, that's my opinion. I will tell you, that many people who read and write, are already awkward. it's because it is becoming extremely rare and it takes a specific mindset to read now. Sorry to say most of them are strange. but that's ok I think strange can be good. We relate to this one the most because it is intriguing, it makes us dig further into the book. However, as a reader/writer, i want to know why? If there is a strange girl roaming a workplace, i want to know what's up. "Why is she/he awkward?" maybe something comes up that justifies the awkwardness; an abusive father/mother. Sensation or urge to kill or fight and they are trying to hold it in. Maybe they are OCD with stealing. Maybe it's to feel attracted to others, so a girl or boy walking the halls of high school "Freshmen year" is actually the most relatable character there is. And let's take the big picture, the story is always going to be more dramatic than your average real life. so why wouldn't the characters start off as awkward? Nobody is immune to those emotions ;) That said. sorry for the long book, but I am on 2 cups of death wish coffee and I can't sleep.
But no fuss, I love your videos, i think you are "THE MOST" brilliant (with all these quotations i'm starting to feel like dr. evil from Austin Powers ) V-Logger and Editor that there is on youtube. and twitter. That's why I subscribed and follow you. I take in about 90% of your advice honestly. I wanted to work with you before I got an agent, but you were very difficult to get a hold of.
I love your videos. You're knowledgeable and get straight to the point.
Your insight is greatly astute for such a young looking person! Thank you
anyone who hates Samwise Gamgee is wrong
People that hates Sam usually hates him because he's too giving and good. They feel him unreal.
I fell for Sam and was awfully disappointed to find out he had a girlfriend. *He* was my hero.
He's the real hero of Lord of the Rings.
@@sunnydargonnel My sister dislikes him because of his treatment towards Smeagol.
@@confessionsofadreamer488 he tried killing them or taking the ring several times I don’t this Sam was being unreasonable