We have 2023 Grand Design 297RSTS with a Furion On Demand water heater. I added recirculation valves to the shower and kitchen sink. Zero wasted water while on tanks.
The re-flow system was going to be my comment as well. It’s a shame that they are not standard on ALL RV’s. That way NO water is wasted. you just turn a valve on the faucet or shower and wait until a temp indicator turns red, then you turn the valve back so the water flows out the shower or faucet and viola, bob’s your uncle.
I have that exact model Tankless heater in my Winnebago. I set the temp to 104 deg and use only the hot tap when taking a shower to minimize the heating and maximize the water flow through the tankless. The kitchen sink is only 18 inches from the heater, so the wait is short there. We love it. The plumbing lines in my RV are short, and the low temp helps shorten the amount of cold wasted. If boon docking, just capture the cold shower and sink water in a bucket. So easy. With four people in our RV we would always be waiting for that tank to heat. It would be great if you could fire the burner before the water was flowing. There is a 35 deg thermal switch that runs the burner briefly to prevent freezing that could be jumped with a push button to accomplish that. The tech support for that tankless company is amazing. A knowledgeable person actually talks to you on the phone. I almost fell over. It's like 1970.
How do you adjust the temp on the winnebago? I have the Forza and the kitchen sink is never more than warm. The shower is pretty hot, but it could be hotter.
With the tank less, I find that if you turn the hot on for a second or two and then off and wait a couple of minutes you don't use as much water waiting for it to get hot.
I think the tank less thought is only based on that model. I have the Therma thru and do sea showers (was in the Coast Gaurd so know sea showers well) with no issues. Maybe it is because the one I have has a small (mark 1 eyeball) 1 liter tank that when it calls for hot water that tank fills in to buffer that cycling you see. My only complaint is while I have hot water in the bathrooms, the kitchen sink seems like there is a mixing value (don't see one though) as that temp is always lower. Also there are two position with one that keeps that tank hot and then eco with keeps it warm. My practice it to turn the heater off until we need hot water and overall no complaints especially if when I first turn it on, I run the hot for a few seconds and then shut the water off for a minute or two. I will have to test how much water is wasted, but guess is less than three cups (.7 liter).
Its likely better control of the water temp however, you are using 100% of the "hot water" source and not mixing it with cold ie: limiting hot water temp.
im active duty Navy and my wife and i are homeport shifting and are new RV'ers and i really appreciate your videos of tips and tricks. Thank you Sir for your help!
We just bought a brand new camper with tankless and used it 4x… decided that tank was better for us. I took the tankless out and installed conventional tank heater. I had to go to 6 gallon due to space, but it is just my wife and I, so that works for us. I can give someone a great deal on a 42k BTU Furion….
@@robertbailey7125 the 6 gallon suburban fit into the same opening (approx 12x12). The outer cover is a separate purchase. We did have to add a 20 amp circuit on the AC system to power the unit on AC. The gas line fit right in. You will need a bypass arrangement on your inlet and outlet for water winterization. You will need a control switch for the dc side as well. All in took me about 8 hrs to install. I dint find it that difficult, but I’m accustomed to doing that type of work. I ordered mine from United RV parts. Their website makes it clear that you need the matching cover and dc control switch for the unit.
I have a GD 2930RL. One of my first upgrades was to replace the Suburban 12Gal with a Truma Aqua-go Comfort. We have never regretted the cost and love it.
Another thing to consider with tankless is that they have a minimum flow requirement before firing the burner. In my last house, the low flow shower head was just above what the heater needed to start. So don't turn the shower flow down while soaping up. When you go to rinse off you get a cold reprise.
Just watched this and sooo glad we did! We were considering changing to a tankless as well, but after watching your tests, we’ll stick with a regular tank. Thanks Chad for saving our bacon by doing a great job of investigating! Keep up the great videos! Safe travels!~Wendy
My coach has an Oasis hydronic system that runs on diesel and / or electric. This provides furnace and domestic hot water. I like it, benifits of both tank and tankless. My shower also has a water miser system that will cycle warm up water back to the fresh tank to not waste it ... even an indicator blue button to let you know the water is hot.
Great video. We are full time with a truma on demand since 2016. One thing we’ve noticed is when the outdoor temps fall we have to reduce the water volume to keep hot water. Also inlet water temp from our rv land well pump in wisc seems to affect it greatly. When temps drop to zero we have to greatly reduce volume to get hot water. That means it’s time to migrate.
Something sounds wrong with your setup. We were camping this past week in ~20 degree temps and the water coming out of the tankless seemed normal temp. Water can only get so cold, I understand they are engineered to take water at ~33 degrees up to the set temp. Now, if you're using a ton of hot water at once, running the shower, sink, dishwasher, etc; I could see you getting ahead of it, but we never have that problem with ours and we often camp when you need a heated hose to keep the water from freezing.
@@michaelfink2070 maybe. This is our 2nd truma on demand water heater and both performed the same way. Yes this result is when showering. It doesn’t seem to be as much of an issue just running a sink faucet.
@@michaelfink2070 every tankless heater has a maximum temperature rise that is tied to a given flow rate. From the Girard user guide, "The Girard Tankless Water Heater will heat incoming water approximately 40 to 60 degrees depending on the water flow rate." Going back to Chad's example of the 86 degree water out from 39 degree water in. If you're running the maximum flow rate and only getting 40 degree rise, that's 39+40=79. Slow the flow rate down to achieve the 60 degree rise and now you're looking at 39+60=99.
Suspicions confirmed on the tankless for RV use. I have been tying to talk a family member out of going this route, he is about a week away from ordering a new Toyhauler. This video convinced him. Thank you.
Thank you Chad for confirming everything I thought I knew! 😂 I’ve never had a tankless in my RV, but did have 1 in a house I owned. I agree with you that I will keep my 12 gallon tank. Just not practical with how we live in our RV. Appreciate your scientific approach. 👏
I have installed 110volt 30 gal from Lowes in my Motorhome a few years back and it works perfect! Had to give up a 2ft square by 3 ft tall space in a closet but it was totally worth it!
The biggest issue we have had with our tankless water heater in our 2022 28BH was when we were in Florida at the end of June 2023. The supply water was warm enough, and maybe pressure not quite high enough, that it really threw off the tankless water heater. No matter what temperature we set the WH to, it would end up getting too hot and made taking showers difficult. If we would try adding cold water to compensate, it would get even hotter. I had even tried adjusting the flow on the WH, but no luck. It was frustrating. As soon as we got back north, it worked great. Thanks for the comparison. I like the idea of the tankless, but there sure are good arguments for a regular tank heater.
Your experimentation and data accuracy saves us all a lot of money, time, and frustration. Thanks for helping us all make more informed decisions. Go Navy!
We’ve only had our tankless heater for a short while, and my tankless tip is to switch it out for an old school water heater. We never camp with full hookup, and I just don’t see this thing working out for us. Also, if you read the tankless manual, you don’t have “unlimited” hot water. The heater will shut off after 20 minutes of use as a safety feature and will need resetting. So you get 20minutes max shower length.
We have the Girard tankless and installed the Shower Mizer to minimize the "wasted water" sending it back to the fresh water tank instead of down the drain. Was a game changer for us. Also fixing the outlet temp instead of trying to mix the cold in is how we do it and works fornus well. Great comparison video! Happy New Year.
Our RV came standard with a tankless water heater and a comfort mode feature (recirculation) so that hot water was always available. Leaving this on 24/7 uses a lot of propane. So we turn it onto comfort when we need hot water. It takes about 30 seconds to warm the water in the lines. When we are done with showers, dishes, etc., we turn the unit off or set it to eco mode. No delay in hot water and not wasted water.
We have the tankless hot water, the same one you tested and we dislike it. We saw lots of youtubers changing to the on demand and couldn't figure out why, so we definitely appreciated your comparison video. Other issues are if you don't have enough water pressure the heater won't turn on so at some parks we have to use the campground and our water tank to get enough pressure for the heater to come on. The other issue is if you don't want a super hot shower, you can't really adjust the temperature. Your choices are very hot or very cold. You can change the temperature on the wall thermostat, but that's not necessary what you get. Thanks again for your great, honest video.
Was one of the first upgrades we made when we went full time (for 4 years). Worked fantastic for a family of 4 (mom, dad, and 2 girls). Had to replace the mother board at about three years (after a heavy rain that I think got it wet) haven’t had any other issues. We have the girard tankless. Have used it with/without hookups. There are some tricks to learn but has always worked great for us (except the one issue mentioned).
Our Holiday Rambler came with an Atwood Tankless Water Heater that never did work correctly. After numerous trips for service; we installed a Truma Aqua Go and it was great. It used very little propane and never ran out of hot water. It was installed by a Truma Factory Facility in Lakeland, FL in less than 2 hours. Highly recommend Truma!
Thank you for the hint of reducing the temperature of the water at the main control for the tankless water heater. I set it 109 and did not have to adjust the mix while I was in the shower. So much easier! Thank you!!!
You’re spot on with your test. We have a tankless which is great for showers, but all else takes time and water to heat up. Washing dishes we fill up the sink… wash dishes… empty sink… rinse dishes with heated water. It would be nice to have a hybrid system that had a 3 gallon tank for quick uses and the on demand for showers
Hey Chad. We have a Furrion 60,000 in our Super C. It takes about 50 seconds to get from the heater to the shower way after in the rig. When we boondock, we put a 5 gallon bucket in the shower to catch the otherwise wasted water and save grey tank space. We use that water to flush toilets. All in all we like the endless supply and propane seems to hold up well. Thanks for the vid neighbor.
Our son bought a travel Trailer with small tanks and a tankless water heater. He added a recirculation loop from the kitchen back to the water tank with a manual valve. Opening the valve recirculates water through the tankless heater and back to the water tank preheating the system and greatly reducing water waste. It is a bit fussy but worth it with his small supply tank. Some new units come from the factory with a recirculating system.
Even with our little 6 gallon unit we have never run out of hot water while camping. We only ever used the electric element. We've used these new tankless units and don't care for them. A downgrade in our opinion. Great vid!
I love my Aqua hot water heater & furnace system that runs on diesel and electricity. We just paid $1600 for repairs & upgrades (switching vs digital). We love our system. We only use propane for our 2 burner stove and our Dometic fridge. Our fridge is old but she still works. The furnace puts out nice heat and water on the hot side is unlimited. My bill was high, but I but about 20 gallons a year of propane and my tank holds 25 gallons. I’ll say it again, I love my aqua-hot!
Hi Chad Thank you for this video. I agree with you about "on demand" system. I have one in my RV. So far I found 2 advantages over the tank heater. 1) I have always the same temperature , once it is hot. 2) I a an 80 year old friend who doesn't understand the winterison and dewinte... process. This would skip a step that he always forgets. Thank you again for you details technicals videos. Allen
Great video! I have the same water heater and when boondocking we turn on bathroom sink faucet and collect into 1/2 gallon bottles . Once the water is hot we take a shower. We use that water to fill the dogs water bowls. Between the 2 of them they consume over a gallon per day. No wasted water and our shower is hot…
Hi Chad, We have lived with two on-demand units. A standard type tankless unit like you tested and a Truma tankless unit with a “normal mode” and a “comfort mode”. In normal mode we get delayed hot water but in comfort mode the hot water is circulated throughout the coach (it is plumbed that way) and hot water is nearly immediate. We leave the unit in normal and at dish or shower time we switch to comfort mode and wait a couple of minutes. It is wonderful to have a navy shower with zero cold slugs. Normal mode works like the one you tested but the benefit is we use Zero gas while idle. Comfort mode is on for short periods so its gas use is negligible. We absolutely love this system.
Hi Chad great topic with on-demand water heater. We had a motor home with on-demand and was great. We are weekenders so water use was not an issue for us, boon-docking would be different so not the best option. Love our on-demand heater in our house, still need to avoid the cold water sandwich. The trick I applied was set the temp controller to 115 and use very little cold water, then just turn down the flow but not off. This eliminates the cold water sandwich effect. Keep making great videos!
We purchased a new camper in 2023 that came with the Furrion tankless water heater. Our old unit had a regular style water heater with electric / gas option. Your tests confirm our feelings about the tankless perfectly! It wastes water. It makes navy showers nearly impossible. We buy more propane because we can’t use campground electricity to heat water. We don’t like it one bit and would MUCH rather have our old water heater! Thanks for making this video. I hope rv manufacturers notice and stop taking away the choice of a traditional unit.
We use propane to heat the water in our motorhome. It doesnt take it long to get hot. We don't leave it on. We turn it on for about 20 to 30 minutes and have hot water for dishes, washing hands, etc for hours. We turn it on when we take a shower. Even on hook up, we have never ran out of got water. We don't take as long of a shower with no hook up. We don't want to waste water or fill the gray tank. We have option of electric also.
My absolute favorite water heater was my Girard tankless heater. I loved using the digital display to pick the temperature we wanted and then turning on only the hot faucet. Wife liked 102F showers, but I liked 105F. Dishes we used 124F. I think the mistake many Rvers make when it comes to tankless is they try to mix in cold water. Don't!!! Simply pick your desired temp and ignore the cold for the win! There are other brands, but the Girard's digital display vs a knob to set your desired temp is the way to go!
Perfectly said Mark! We do exactly the same with our Furrion WH. Use straight hot water and whatever temp you want. It's more precise and saves water vs. trying to find the right temp by mixing.
Yep, have a 12 Gallon in the back yard that is new and not used, as it was replaced with a Furrion Instant on. We set out temp and only turn on the hot water and love it. Yes a little delay about 1/2 gallon but to us well worth it.
Thank you for a very educational video. I have not toyed with the idea of getting a tankless because I hear of so many people have trouble with them. Mostly pressure problems I believe. Thanks again!
Great video as usual. I have a Suburban 6-gallon propane/electric water heater and was considering going tankless. But your video convinced me to stay with my Suburban and not go On Demand! Like they say, "if it isn't broke, leave it alone!"
Thanks for the comparison. I was kinda considering getting a tankless since my normal water heater is 5 years old but now I definitely would not. I'm full time stationary with electricity included so paying for more propane is not appealing. More importantly since it can get quite cold here in Tennessee, and I don't know what the water temperature is when it comes into my RV when it's below freezing, I definitely wouldn't want to risk having no hot water in the winter.
I agree with you Chad. We do not camp with full hookups very often. I want the option to go to my tank type. Same should be true of all AC or DC refrigerators. Camping 5 days on forest land makes propane appliances a must have. Thanks for the video.
We have a GD 399thr and switched to a Fogatti tankless water heater. Will never go back to a tank heater. The tankless uses less LP since it does not keep a tank of water hot all the time. We also get hot water a lot faster than your testing showed, maybe because of make/model? We purchased a Leprechaun 311fs and just completed our second trip out of state. My wife had no hot water for her shower since I switched to electric only to save on LP. She’s demanding a tankless water heater for this RV now. Thanks for the video and taking the time to test them.
The Girard has a flow control knob on the backside to slow water down so it’ll heat to temp if you have really cold inlet water. (Yes not easily accessible but it’s there) Plus you need at least .8 GPM of water flow so slowing the flow down can drop you below that and it won’t work at all. This is an issue on water saver faucets and I’ve had to change the aerator to get better flow. Also the water miser is the solution to saving water in the shower and keeping hot water flowing.
I've had two tankless units. My last rig had the Girard 38k BTU unit. It was great during warmer months but when the ground water temps started to dip...no, just no. Luke warm water was the best you could hope for. My new rig has the Furrion 60K unit and I love it! HOT water all the time. Of course I don't boondock!
I totally agree with your assessment of the tank vs tankless. We have a tankless heater and it works great for full hook ups. The delay when not at a full hook up spot just is not practical. One other bit of information with the water source temperature. We were in the Florida Keys in June. Water source temp was too cold by itself, but the water source was too warm to use the water heater even set on the coldest temperature for taking a shower. We were not able to balance out the temperature to take a comfortable shower with adding cold water to the hot water at the lowest setting.
We've been full-timing with a GD 278BH for about 8 months now, and we love our Furrion tankless WH. It's true that it takes about 30 seconds for hot water to reach our kitchen sink in the rear of the unit, but once the water in the pipes is hot, it doesn't take that long to get hot water back when washing dishes. It takes about 20 seconds to get hot water at our shower, and when I take navy showers, I only get about a 5 second burst of cold water when restarting the hot water (I know it's coming and point it away from me until the water is hot). You're right that we could collect the cold water to use it for another purpose, but even though we boondock often, we're not usually far from a dump station long enough to worry about it. The upside of not having to wait a half hour between showers is HUGE for us. With three of us in our RV, it would take about 90 minutes for us to all shower if we were using a 12 gallon tank WH. We've had both tank and tankless WHs, and the tanks just don't work well for us.
We also have the Truma Aqua Go on Demand. It has a small reservoir which allows us to have "instant" hot water on demand. It's not immediate but very quick in both bathrooms, kitchen and shower. While I have not tested the temperature, it is necessary for us to mix cold in with the hot. We are located near Detroit, Michigan in Ontario and camp until mid October in sometimes pretty chilling weather. Thanks for doing the research Chad. Our experience over the last three years is that we will never return to a tank heater
I've got the 6 gal so I take the navy showers. I have an electric suburban tank and I feel like I get the hot water pretty quick. And I'm still using the Mopeka sensors on my propane and I love those things. Thank you for the testing videos. I wouldn't have known about that sensor if not for you
Excellent presentation! You answered the questions I've had about a switch to a tankless system. I'll be keeping my conventional water heater! Safe travels....
Thank you for doing this topic. We have the tankless in our Imagine 22mle and hate it for showering. We do what you mentioned with picking a lower temp and just run hot only but don't do navy style but just try to be quick. That waiting about 30-45 seconds for the hot water to come through is too long and wastes gray tank. We have considered checking on going back to the 6 gallon we had previously and it was excellent.
Thanks for doing the comparison and proving what I've been saying. In my search for a new 5th wheel, the only manufacturers I found still offering tank heaters is Keystone in the Montana and Jayco on the North Pointe and Pennicle. Our current 5th wheel has a 12 gal heater. We've never run out of hot water and in almost 3 years haven't gone through 2 30 lb tanks of propane, never do that with a tankless heater. The industry is shoving the tankless down our throats with no options. While I can understand something better is needed for a 8 gal heater, I wish there would be a option.
Thanks Chad. I've wondered the same thing about the tankless heaters. They sound good, residential heaters work good, but you would have unlimited water. I've also wondered about the water circulators for instant hot water at faucets. I didn't think they would work to well for an rv due to needing a loop water system. Your test was good, didn't turn out quite how I figured. I'll just keep my old tank heater. God bless ya'll and stay safe on your travels.
We have a 2022 Grand Design 295RL 5ht wheel that came with a Fusion tankless. Absolutely hated it... if the kitchen faucet was turned on while someone was taking a shower, it would stop heating. Cold shower! We changed it out to a 10(?) gallon tank. Love the tank water heater.
Most of our lives, we've had "normal" tanked water heaters, some electric, some natural gas. A few years ago, we stayed in a tiny home with a tankless water heater. For the last two-and-a-half plus years, we've lived in our RV with a hybrid, a Truma on-demand water heater, which maintains a very small tank at the set temp, and has the capacity to keep the water at that temp at high flow. I think that gives us good insight into the differences. We've pretty much decided the hybrid is the best. First off, the delay in getting the initial hot water to the fixture is mostly a matter of the amount of piping between the heater and fixture. Our shower is very close to our water heater, so in an ideal world we'd get hot water to the shower very quickly. But the way it's plumbed, the hot water goes nearly to the front of the rig, to a manifold, and then back from that manifold to the shower, wasting time and water. IMO a poor design choice on the part of the RV manufacturer. Similarly, when you've had the water hot at the fixture, shut off the flow, and then restart it, that colder water you're getting is probably mostly from water in the pipes cooling down. What we found with the tankless heater is a problem with low flow. If you turn the flow down to a trickle, the heater turns off, and now you're pumping cold water into the hot water line. Not good when you increase the flow again. You get a "cold water sandwich". With the hybrid, that isn't an issue, as it keeps the water at the set temp, regardless of flow. Taking a "Navy" or similar shower is entirely feasible with it. When fresh water, gray capacity, and propane aren't a concern, you can go the other extreme and take very long showers, back-to-back, run the dishwasher, the washing machine, or whatever, and not have to worry about running out. Doing two of those things at once could be an issue, but we haven't tested that. When we settle down again to a sticks-and-bricks, we may just get multiple hybrid water heaters, both to eliminate the issue of simultaneous fixture use and to ensure the hot water lines are short. We haven't measured the propane use, but have noticed that when we're not using either the furnace or the generator, our propane seems to last a long time. The furnace goes through it a lot faster, and the generator really burns it up. I'd have to guess that the Truma less efficient than the tankless though, since it's maintaining that small tank of hot water, and that tank *feels* hot, so it isn't well insulated. We've had a tanked water heater that felt cool to the touch, keeping its 50 gallons of water at 145F with very little loss to the environment.
Hi Chad, we have a Tuma tankless hot water heater, but ours has a recirculating pump in it with a small tank. It keeps the water warm through the trailer. it has two Settings, Eco, or recirculating.
Wow...that last fact about the colder source temperature on the tankless is enough for me to say "no thanks" to a tankless. Would be curious to know how much propane was used on the tank water heater when it was doing its recovery - 38 minutes @ 12,000 BTU. Cool comparison Chad, thank you.
We found one downside with the Truma is the fact that you have to descale it when it tells you, that process took 4hours each time, during that time not hot water. We have a Dometic tank heater now and never ran out of hot water
We don’t do a lot of boondocking so we went with Girard tankless and love it. If we do boondock, it would only be a couple of days and that still wouldn’t be an issue for us.
Chad thx for the info. Very detailed as usual. Staying with the Suburban W/H tank 12 gal. in our Alliance 310 Paradigm. Please don’t take this the wrong way… I love watching your channel because you are a “fact geek”. Safe travels, always.
Our new trailer came with the Girard tankless. Changed it out to a gas/electric after not getting hot water in a trip this past Easter in Colorado. Water barely got hot enough for a shower at 8000 elevation. Not the less I did not like the wasted water when dry camping
Very good test, you spent a lot of time on this. Unfortunately they weren’t the same rv’s so it’s hard to be exact but you did a great job and the video images of the timers were good. I found your results were exactly what I experienced before removing an existing on demand and replaced it with the OE 10gal. I hated the demand. The other thing you kind of mentioned but didn’t expand on was your source water. If you have a tank htr and your source is 39 like you said it would eventually get hot and not be limited to your btu’s. You might never get your water hot enough😮
Great video thx . Would be cool to see a test with the truma . You guys are awesome thx again for all the great content . Happy new year & safe travels.
I need to preface this with the statement that my wife passed away from brain cancer ten years ago from this coming June 30. When she was still here, I would get in the shower first while she was doing her morning thing, like putting drained dishes away, putting pots and pans away, making the bed, etcetera. I would be pretty efficient showering and towling down. As I finished up, the hot water heater would finish recovering and shut off. I would then open my propane Coleman stove outdoors (which I had modified to run on an external twenty pound propane tank) and get ready to cook breakfast. By the time the bacon, eggs, and skillet toast were ready, she was ready to come outdoors and enjoy breakfast together. The timing was perfect and we enjoyed our mornings together this way. When the outside weather was undesirable, we would modify the routine by cooking inside, but it was surprising how much we enjoyed outdoor breakfast on chilly mornings!! Windy rainy days kept us inside!! Our tank type propane hot water heater served us very well!!
It's way too early in the year for math! Very good testing, well done. I have worked on both styles of water heaters. The folks who have the On Demand love it. Only because they don't boondock, and want to take a shower like they did in their homes. I had thought about an on demand if the Suburban gave out in the future. But after seeing the hard numbers of your testing, I'm putting another 12 gallon tank back in there. The trick with an on demand heater is the temperature increase. They are only rated for a 40-50 degree increase in water temperature over the incoming water temperature. They are a snap to winterize, too, especially the Truma.
This is a good analysis if you don't move around a lot. If your on the road it's tankless that will easily win. My wife would be waiting (a long time)for that slow tank heat up (using a lot of LP and electricity) so she could take a shower. When arriving at destination same issue.
I have a Suburban ST-60 tankless water heater. I get hot water at any fixture in 15 seconds. Works great. The 60000 BTU units is designed for colder climates and has a pilot that will keep it from freezing as long as you have gas and 12 volts
You always do a great job in testing thing Keep it up help me make good decision's . I installed a 12 volt recirculation valve in my 1921 Grand Design with a Fusion On Demand and never wast any water and love how you can adjust to any temp for showering 106 degrees works for me, shower as long as you want. Except when boon-docking.
Chad, my wife and I have a 2020 Keystone Alpine with the Suburban tankless water heater. It is 60,000 btu, and we love it for the ability to take unlimited showers. However, I too have noticed many drawbacks, most of which you have already mentioned. I'll mention a few more. First, it is supposed to have a recirculate option that maintains instant hot water at the expense of using much more gas to keep it hot. However, this feature has never worked in our RV, and I loath dealing with RV dealerships, so I just never addressed it. We rarely camp without full hookups, so it hasn't been a real problem for us. We did discover that when at a place with very low water pressure, the water heater would sometimes not register water flow and stop running. We got around it by setting the temperature lower and using only the hot water. I believe that if we were to do it again, I would just go back to the 12 gallon gas/electric version. After all, with both gas and electric turned on, they work kind of like a tankless too. Great video, as always!
We have the same heater as you do. Just the 2 of us also. When showering, we turn on both gas and electric and find that the 16 gallons per hour recovery rate makes it so we never run out of hot water.
I have a tankless and love it. I have RA and need fairly frequent long hot showers. We're TT members so 90% of the time we have full hookups and don't stay at a site without sewer for longer than a week at a time. If we don't have full hookups I'll just use the bathhouse. It's worth it for us to deal with it being occasionally inconvenient when we don't have sewer, though I could see it being less useful for someone who frequently doesn't have full hookups. The model we have is a GIRARD Tankless RV Water Heater, 12V Power, 42,000 BTUs, 2GWHAM which I think is roughly equivalent to what you were testing. I will say that we've stayed in some pretty cold temperatures, including in Texas when they had the big freeze event a bit ago, and have never had issues with getting the water hot enough.
Hi Chad, we have the Truma Aqua Go on demand system. Love it. Ours does use a lot of propane. Can’t recommend it enough. Don’t go with the furrion. Test the Truma one.
That's what we have, and I'm really pleased with the propane consumption. I was expecting it to be a lot worse than it is, in practice I really don't even notice the propone use, it's that slight (we do have 2 40lb tanks though).
Thanks for confirming what I noticed already between our 2021 Imagine and 2022 Reflection systems. I prefer the tank system in our Imagine. On top of what you pointed out, if the rv park water pressure too low you will get an error on the tankless. There has been times that I had to switch the pump on and use water from our fresh water tank in the Reflection. Being ex military my wife and I could take back to back showers with our 12 gal tank in our 2018 Jayco Toyhauler before we switch to the two Grand Designs.
You can add a circulation pump to a residential instanteous water heater that circulates the water from the hot water line back to the cold. You just hit a button, wait a few seconds, and have hot water immediately. This would mean zero wasted water. I don't know if they are available for RV's yet, but that would take both of the cons away and make them pros.
@@Garth2011 true. That said, the pressure difference between the hot and cold lines at a fixture is zero. The pump would not have to work very hard to recirculate the water.
We ran the same Girard heater on our trailer last year, it was 40 or so days of camping before we used up a single 30lb bottle, with a family of six, at least one shower every day and regular dishes. I think they are very efficient cost wise. They have a larger burner than a tank style, but aren’t cycling constantly. One thing about the Mopeka is it probably has fixed increments on the scale, so I wouldn’t math it out based on a single tick on the readout. I’m sure it would be accurate on an extended test. With the lag and the weakness at cycling water you do have to adjust habits. I don’t navy shower but shower fast. We do dishes much like you suggested with filling the sink as we wash. If I were to replace it I wouldn’t go to a tanked heater. I’d look into recirculating valves others have suggested, or look at a brand called Truma which has a different design. On the days where six people need to shower, tankless is much faster.
You should have tested the tankless pulling water from the fresh water tank, which isn’t as cold as water coming from the city water line. Thats one strategy for getting faster hot water with less wasted water.
@@NickKarpennot actually. Like Chad said, the water in the tank was in the high 30-degree range because he didn’t have the furnace running to keep the rig at a temperature it would normally be at if they were staying in it. So, that wasn’t test using fresh tank water under normal conditions.
HI CHAD & TARA 👋 I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING ABOUT THE WATER BEING COLD UNTIL THE HOT WATER REACHED WHERE YOU WERE AT IN THE RV . FROM THE VIDEO FOOTAGE 📹 THE NEWER ONE LOOKED SMALLER SO IT SHOULDN'T TAKE AS LONG FOR THE HEATED WATER TO REACH YOU . THEY SHOULD MAKE A RETURN RECYCLING HOT WATER LINE TO GO BACK TO THE MAIN TANK OR A SMALLER RECYCLING TANK IF YOU KNOW WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT THAN NOTHING GETS WASTED , 💧, HOPE YOU BOTH & THE PUP 🐶 ARE DOING WELL . BE SAFE ! HAVE FUN ! ENJOYED ❤ GOD BLESS YOU BOTH &THE PUP ALWAYS ON YOUR ADVENTURES 🙏 THANK YOU 😊
Our Holiday Rambler came with the Truma tankless water heater. We love it. The Truma does have a small mixing container that may help with the cycling of water. Also I'm not sure if it makes a difference but when we take showers we always hit the pause button on the shower head and don't turn the water off. You get a small squirt of cold water as you resume water flow but it doesn't go back to cold running water. I would like to actually run a test like you did on ours now, you made me curious.
Chad great video. When winter camping the tank heater helps keep the basement warmer as well as the plumbing around it. I'm not sure a tankless is the best thing if you're snow camping. The ambient temperature of the water is probably an equal in both systems, heck the water from our hookup in Arizona was bath temperature right at the tap.
We love our Furrion tankless. Have had it for over a year and absolutely love the change. Best decision we made. We had a 12 gallon. As you said, we could use it but had to manage. It went bad so we replaced with tankless and think it’s so much better for us. Yes you do need to let it run for a few seconds, but if I’m boondocking, I run that water into a cup or pail and reuse it to flush the toilet. It’s never taken more than 5-10 seconds to get our hot water. Maybe it was the brand you were using - or maybe it’s the lover Bri’s on that unit?? Pros on the tankless: all the hot water you want (as long as you have propane), less weight to carry around on travel days, can set temp to what we prefer for our showers, we do use less propane then before - so that cost has gone down (the electric on our other one didn’t keep it at our preferred temp). No need to manage our showers - and I can wash dishes while he is showering!
Unfortunately there is a huge difference in on demand water heaters. We had a Girad same as you tested. It was an abysmal unit, just terrible. The RV dealer and I got on a phone call with Girad and they validated our challenges with the unit, same as yours. Our current RV has a Truma, fantastic unit with none of the problems of the Girad. It is a hybrid with a very small tank that eliminates nearly all the problems you have with the Girad plus the value of continuous hot water. One item you didn’t cover is the propane needed to keep your tank type water heater hot. That is simply wasted energy especially off grid. Love your channel.
We have 2023 Grand Design 297RSTS with a Furion On Demand water heater. I added recirculation valves to the shower and kitchen sink. Zero wasted water while on tanks.
THAT is freakin GENIUS! Bravo! 👍🏼
Do those magnetic spice racks on your Rv fridge stay there during travel and if so where did you get them from?
I was just about to let Chad know about them...shocked that manufacturers don't have them as options still, as they have been out for years now?
The re-flow system was going to be my comment as well. It’s a shame that they are not standard on ALL RV’s. That way NO water is wasted. you just turn a valve on the faucet or shower and wait until a temp indicator turns red, then you turn the valve back so the water flows out the shower or faucet and viola, bob’s your uncle.
A great idea! I've heard of it before, can you give details how to set up/install?
I have that exact model Tankless heater in my Winnebago. I set the temp to 104 deg and use only the hot tap when taking a shower to minimize the heating and maximize the water flow through the tankless. The kitchen sink is only 18 inches from the heater, so the wait is short there. We love it. The plumbing lines in my RV are short, and the low temp helps shorten the amount of cold wasted. If boon docking, just capture the cold shower and sink water in a bucket. So easy. With four people in our RV we would always be waiting for that tank to heat. It would be great if you could fire the burner before the water was flowing. There is a 35 deg thermal switch that runs the burner briefly to prevent freezing that could be jumped with a push button to accomplish that. The tech support for that tankless company is amazing. A knowledgeable person actually talks to you on the phone. I almost fell over. It's like 1970.
How do you adjust the temp on the winnebago? I have the Forza and the kitchen sink is never more than warm. The shower is pretty hot, but it could be hotter.
With the tank less, I find that if you turn the hot on for a second or two and then off and wait a couple of minutes you don't use as much water waiting for it to get hot.
I think the tank less thought is only based on that model. I have the Therma thru and do sea showers (was in the Coast Gaurd so know sea showers well) with no issues. Maybe it is because the one I have has a small (mark 1 eyeball) 1 liter tank that when it calls for hot water that tank fills in to buffer that cycling you see. My only complaint is while I have hot water in the bathrooms, the kitchen sink seems like there is a mixing value (don't see one though) as that temp is always lower. Also there are two position with one that keeps that tank hot and then eco with keeps it warm. My practice it to turn the heater off until we need hot water and overall no complaints especially if when I first turn it on, I run the hot for a few seconds and then shut the water off for a minute or two. I will have to test how much water is wasted, but guess is less than three cups (.7 liter).
Its likely better control of the water temp however, you are using 100% of the "hot water" source and not mixing it with cold ie: limiting hot water temp.
im active duty Navy and my wife and i are homeport shifting and are new RV'ers and i really appreciate your videos of tips and tricks. Thank you Sir for your help!
We just bought a brand new camper with tankless and used it 4x… decided that tank was better for us. I took the tankless out and installed conventional tank heater. I had to go to 6 gallon due to space, but it is just my wife and I, so that works for us. I can give someone a great deal on a 42k BTU Furion….
We've discussed this also. How difficult or what issues did you have?
@@robertbailey7125 the 6 gallon suburban fit into the same opening (approx 12x12). The outer cover is a separate purchase. We did have to add a 20 amp circuit on the AC system to power the unit on AC. The gas line fit right in. You will need a bypass arrangement on your inlet and outlet for water winterization. You will need a control switch for the dc side as well. All in took me about 8 hrs to install. I dint find it that difficult, but I’m accustomed to doing that type of work. I ordered mine from United RV parts. Their website makes it clear that you need the matching cover and dc control switch for the unit.
This is great info. I'm going to make notes of it. Thank you.@@randypetty3066
I hate the on demands
I have a GD 2930RL. One of my first upgrades was to replace the Suburban 12Gal with a Truma Aqua-go Comfort. We have never regretted the cost and love it.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
But doesn't the Truma have a small tank?
@@ChangingLanesBest to wait until the Suburban tank quits vs. replace one that is working fine.
The Truma has a small 10L (2.64G) tank that is kept hot all the time. The water heater generates between 20,0000 and 60,000 BTU based on needs
Another thing to consider with tankless is that they have a minimum flow requirement before firing the burner. In my last house, the low flow shower head was just above what the heater needed to start. So don't turn the shower flow down while soaping up. When you go to rinse off you get a cold reprise.
Just watched this and sooo glad we did! We were considering changing to a tankless as well, but after watching your tests, we’ll stick with a regular tank. Thanks Chad for saving our bacon by doing a great job of investigating! Keep up the great videos! Safe travels!~Wendy
My coach has an Oasis hydronic system that runs on diesel and / or electric. This provides furnace and domestic hot water. I like it, benifits of both tank and tankless. My shower also has a water miser system that will cycle warm up water back to the fresh tank to not waste it ... even an indicator blue button to let you know the water is hot.
Best system of them all...
This is exactly the info I have been looking for. Solid tests 🤘
Great video. We are full time with a truma on demand since 2016. One thing we’ve noticed is when the outdoor temps fall we have to reduce the water volume to keep hot water. Also inlet water temp from our rv land well pump in wisc seems to affect it greatly. When temps drop to zero we have to greatly reduce volume to get hot water. That means it’s time to migrate.
Something sounds wrong with your setup. We were camping this past week in ~20 degree temps and the water coming out of the tankless seemed normal temp. Water can only get so cold, I understand they are engineered to take water at ~33 degrees up to the set temp. Now, if you're using a ton of hot water at once, running the shower, sink, dishwasher, etc; I could see you getting ahead of it, but we never have that problem with ours and we often camp when you need a heated hose to keep the water from freezing.
@@michaelfink2070 maybe. This is our 2nd truma on demand water heater and both performed the same way. Yes this result is when showering. It doesn’t seem to be as much of an issue just running a sink faucet.
@@michaelfink2070 every tankless heater has a maximum temperature rise that is tied to a given flow rate. From the Girard user guide, "The Girard Tankless Water Heater will heat incoming water approximately 40 to 60 degrees depending on the water flow rate." Going back to Chad's example of the 86 degree water out from 39 degree water in. If you're running the maximum flow rate and only getting 40 degree rise, that's 39+40=79. Slow the flow rate down to achieve the 60 degree rise and now you're looking at 39+60=99.
Suspicions confirmed on the tankless for RV use. I have been tying to talk a family member out of going this route, he is about a week away from ordering a new Toyhauler. This video convinced him. Thank you.
Thank you Chad for confirming everything I thought I knew! 😂 I’ve never had a tankless in my RV, but did have 1 in a house I owned. I agree with you that I will keep my 12 gallon tank. Just not practical with how we live in our RV. Appreciate your scientific approach. 👏
Great info. Water usage is so important, especially boom docking
We had a Girard in our fifth wheel. Got rid of it and had a Truma Aqua Go. We love it. Research it. You can boondock with it.
I read up on that a bit after some comments.. Truma's tank thing is the difference I think.
I have installed 110volt 30 gal from Lowes in my Motorhome a few years back and it works perfect! Had to give up a 2ft square by 3 ft tall space in a closet but it was totally worth it!
The biggest issue we have had with our tankless water heater in our 2022 28BH was when we were in Florida at the end of June 2023. The supply water was warm enough, and maybe pressure not quite high enough, that it really threw off the tankless water heater. No matter what temperature we set the WH to, it would end up getting too hot and made taking showers difficult. If we would try adding cold water to compensate, it would get even hotter. I had even tried adjusting the flow on the WH, but no luck. It was frustrating. As soon as we got back north, it worked great. Thanks for the comparison. I like the idea of the tankless, but there sure are good arguments for a regular tank heater.
Your experimentation and data accuracy saves us all a lot of money, time, and frustration. Thanks for helping us all make more informed decisions. Go Navy!
We’ve only had our tankless heater for a short while, and my tankless tip is to switch it out for an old school water heater.
We never camp with full hookup, and I just don’t see this thing working out for us.
Also, if you read the tankless manual, you don’t have “unlimited” hot water. The heater will shut off after 20 minutes of use as a safety feature and will need resetting. So you get 20minutes max shower length.
We have the Girard tankless and installed the Shower Mizer to minimize the "wasted water" sending it back to the fresh water tank instead of down the drain. Was a game changer for us. Also fixing the outlet temp instead of trying to mix the cold in is how we do it and works fornus well. Great comparison video! Happy New Year.
Our RV came standard with a tankless water heater and a comfort mode feature (recirculation) so that hot water was always available. Leaving this on 24/7 uses a lot of propane. So we turn it onto comfort when we need hot water. It takes about 30 seconds to warm the water in the lines. When we are done with showers, dishes, etc., we turn the unit off or set it to eco mode. No delay in hot water and not wasted water.
I need to correct you on your assertion that tankless is not suitable for boondocking. With recirculation, we waste no water.
We have the tankless hot water, the same one you tested and we dislike it. We saw lots of youtubers changing to the on demand and couldn't figure out why, so we definitely appreciated your comparison video. Other issues are if you don't have enough water pressure the heater won't turn on so at some parks we have to use the campground and our water tank to get enough pressure for the heater to come on. The other issue is if you don't want a super hot shower, you can't really adjust the temperature. Your choices are very hot or very cold. You can change the temperature on the wall thermostat, but that's not necessary what you get. Thanks again for your great, honest video.
This was really helpful. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.
Was one of the first upgrades we made when we went full time (for 4 years). Worked fantastic for a family of 4 (mom, dad, and 2 girls). Had to replace the mother board at about three years (after a heavy rain that I think got it wet) haven’t had any other issues. We have the girard tankless. Have used it with/without hookups. There are some tricks to learn but has always worked great for us (except the one issue mentioned).
Our 2017 Alpine has the 12 gallon suburban water heater and when camping several have taken showers back to back with no complaints or problems
We had the Truma Aqua Go for 4 years. Loved it and had substantially better performance to the gerrard unit you tested.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma AquaGo. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
Our Holiday Rambler came with an Atwood Tankless Water Heater that never did work correctly. After numerous trips for service; we installed a Truma Aqua Go and it was great. It used very little propane and never ran out of hot water. It was installed by a Truma Factory Facility in Lakeland, FL in less than 2 hours. Highly recommend Truma!
Thank you for the hint of reducing the temperature of the water at the main control for the tankless water heater. I set it 109 and did not have to adjust the mix while I was in the shower. So much easier! Thank you!!!
You’re spot on with your test. We have a tankless which is great for showers, but all else takes time and water to heat up. Washing dishes we fill up the sink… wash dishes… empty sink… rinse dishes with heated water. It would be nice to have a hybrid system that had a 3 gallon tank for quick uses and the on demand for showers
Hey Chad.
We have a Furrion 60,000 in our Super C.
It takes about 50 seconds to get from the heater to the shower way after in the rig. When we boondock, we put a 5 gallon bucket in the shower to catch the otherwise wasted water and save grey tank space.
We use that water to flush toilets.
All in all we like the endless supply and propane seems to hold up well.
Thanks for the vid neighbor.
Our son bought a travel Trailer with small tanks and a tankless water heater. He added a recirculation loop from the kitchen back to the water tank with a manual valve. Opening the valve recirculates water through the tankless heater and back to the water tank preheating the system and greatly reducing water waste. It is a bit fussy but worth it with his small supply tank. Some new units come from the factory with a recirculating system.
That is awesome! Someone else had commented they did the same thing with the recirculation.. 👍🏼
Even with our little 6 gallon unit we have never run out of hot water while camping. We only ever used the electric element. We've used these new tankless units and don't care for them. A downgrade in our opinion. Great vid!
I love my Aqua hot water heater & furnace system that runs on diesel and electricity.
We just paid $1600 for repairs & upgrades (switching vs digital).
We love our system.
We only use propane for our 2 burner stove and our Dometic fridge.
Our fridge is old but she still works.
The furnace puts out nice heat and water on the hot side is unlimited.
My bill was high, but I but about 20 gallons a year of propane and my tank holds 25 gallons.
I’ll say it again, I love my aqua-hot!
This left me saying WOW!! Thank you for comparing, as I always wondered about tankless heaters, not any more! 👍🏻🍻
Good job Chad you saved me a lot of headaches and money. I really love watching you guys. keep up the great videos.
You need to test a Truma AquaGo - the best of both worlds!
Hi Chad
Thank you for this video. I agree with you about "on demand" system. I have one in my RV. So far I found 2 advantages over the tank heater.
1) I have always the same temperature , once it is hot.
2) I a an 80 year old friend who doesn't understand the winterison and dewinte... process. This would skip a step that he always forgets.
Thank you again for you details technicals videos.
Allen
Great video!
I have the same water heater and when boondocking we turn on bathroom sink faucet and collect into 1/2 gallon bottles .
Once the water is hot we take a shower.
We use that water to fill the dogs water bowls.
Between the 2 of them they consume over a gallon per day.
No wasted water and our shower is hot…
Thanks for the feedback! 👍🏼
Hi Chad,
We have lived with two on-demand units. A standard type tankless unit like you tested and a Truma tankless unit with a “normal mode” and a “comfort mode”.
In normal mode we get delayed hot water but in comfort mode the hot water is circulated throughout the coach (it is plumbed that way) and hot water is nearly immediate. We leave the unit in normal and at dish or shower time we switch to comfort mode and wait a couple of minutes. It is wonderful to have a navy shower with zero cold slugs.
Normal mode works like the one you tested but the benefit is we use Zero gas while idle. Comfort mode is on for short periods so its gas use is negligible.
We absolutely love this system.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma AquaGo. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
How does normal mode not use gas to circulate hot/warm water? Normal mode must stand for "OFF" and comfort mode is "ON".
Hi Chad great topic with on-demand water heater. We had a motor home with on-demand and was great. We are weekenders so water use was not an issue for us, boon-docking would be different so not the best option. Love our on-demand heater in our house, still need to avoid the cold water sandwich.
The trick I applied was set the temp controller to 115 and use very little cold water, then just turn down the flow but not off. This eliminates the cold water sandwich effect.
Keep making great videos!
We purchased a new camper in 2023 that came with the Furrion tankless water heater. Our old unit had a regular style water heater with electric / gas option. Your tests confirm our feelings about the tankless perfectly! It wastes water. It makes navy showers nearly impossible. We buy more propane because we can’t use campground electricity to heat water. We don’t like it one bit and would MUCH rather have our old water heater!
Thanks for making this video. I hope rv manufacturers notice and stop taking away the choice of a traditional unit.
Thank you for doing this video. We were also considering switching to tankless but now we know it is best for us to stay with the hot water tank.
We use propane to heat the water in our motorhome. It doesnt take it long to get hot. We don't leave it on. We turn it on for about 20 to 30 minutes and have hot water for dishes, washing hands, etc for hours. We turn it on when we take a shower. Even on hook up, we have never ran out of got water. We don't take as long of a shower with no hook up. We don't want to waste water or fill the gray tank. We have option of electric also.
I just ordered a pinnacle yesterday. So happy I kept the 16 gallon tank.
Thanks for confirming what I thought about tankless.
My absolute favorite water heater was my Girard tankless heater. I loved using the digital display to pick the temperature we wanted and then turning on only the hot faucet. Wife liked 102F showers, but I liked 105F. Dishes we used 124F. I think the mistake many Rvers make when it comes to tankless is they try to mix in cold water. Don't!!! Simply pick your desired temp and ignore the cold for the win! There are other brands, but the Girard's digital display vs a knob to set your desired temp is the way to go!
Perfectly said Mark! We do exactly the same with our Furrion WH. Use straight hot water and whatever temp you want. It's more precise and saves water vs. trying to find the right temp by mixing.
Just discovered my home tankless Navien has a remote add-on. Seriously considering getting it to do just this!
Yep, have a 12 Gallon in the back yard that is new and not used, as it was replaced with a Furrion Instant on. We set out temp and only turn on the hot water and love it. Yes a little delay about 1/2 gallon but to us well worth it.
Thank you for a very educational video. I have not toyed with the idea of getting a tankless because I hear of so many people have trouble with them. Mostly pressure problems I believe. Thanks again!
Great video as usual. I have a Suburban 6-gallon propane/electric water heater and was considering going tankless. But your video convinced me to stay with my Suburban and not go On Demand! Like they say, "if it isn't broke, leave it alone!"
Thanks for the comparison.
I was kinda considering getting a tankless since my normal water heater is 5 years old but now I definitely would not.
I'm full time stationary with electricity included so paying for more propane is not appealing.
More importantly since it can get quite cold here in Tennessee, and I don't know what the water temperature is when it comes into my RV when it's below freezing, I definitely wouldn't want to risk having no hot water in the winter.
I agree with you Chad. We do not camp with full hookups very often. I want the option to go to my tank type. Same should be true of all AC or DC refrigerators. Camping 5 days on forest land makes propane appliances a must have. Thanks for the video.
We have a GD 399thr and switched to a Fogatti tankless water heater. Will never go back to a tank heater. The tankless uses less LP since it does not keep a tank of water hot all the time. We also get hot water a lot faster than your testing showed, maybe because of make/model? We purchased a Leprechaun 311fs and just completed our second trip out of state. My wife had no hot water for her shower since I switched to electric only to save on LP. She’s demanding a tankless water heater for this RV now. Thanks for the video and taking the time to test them.
We don’t do hookups, so the tankless water heater wouldn’t benefit us.
The Girard has a flow control knob on the backside to slow water down so it’ll heat to temp if you have really cold inlet water. (Yes not easily accessible but it’s there)
Plus you need at least .8 GPM
of water flow so slowing the flow down can drop you below that and it won’t work at all. This is an issue on water saver faucets and I’ve had to change the aerator to get better flow.
Also the water miser is the solution to saving water in the shower and keeping hot water flowing.
I've had two tankless units. My last rig had the Girard 38k BTU unit. It was great during warmer months but when the ground water temps started to dip...no, just no. Luke warm water was the best you could hope for. My new rig has the Furrion 60K unit and I love it! HOT water all the time. Of course I don't boondock!
We have a Truma. The unit has a 2 gal tank so when you turn on the hot water it’s ready. Then the burners kick on and we never run out it’s great!!
I totally agree with your assessment of the tank vs tankless. We have a tankless heater and it works great for full hook ups. The delay when not at a full hook up spot just is not practical. One other bit of information with the water source temperature. We were in the Florida Keys in June. Water source temp was too cold by itself, but the water source was too warm to use the water heater even set on the coldest temperature for taking a shower. We were not able to balance out the temperature to take a comfortable shower with adding cold water to the hot water at the lowest setting.
Oh wow! I hadn't considered that. I guess the burner has a minimum power... Thank you for sharing!
Great considerations.
We've been full-timing with a GD 278BH for about 8 months now, and we love our Furrion tankless WH. It's true that it takes about 30 seconds for hot water to reach our kitchen sink in the rear of the unit, but once the water in the pipes is hot, it doesn't take that long to get hot water back when washing dishes. It takes about 20 seconds to get hot water at our shower, and when I take navy showers, I only get about a 5 second burst of cold water when restarting the hot water (I know it's coming and point it away from me until the water is hot).
You're right that we could collect the cold water to use it for another purpose, but even though we boondock often, we're not usually far from a dump station long enough to worry about it.
The upside of not having to wait a half hour between showers is HUGE for us. With three of us in our RV, it would take about 90 minutes for us to all shower if we were using a 12 gallon tank WH. We've had both tank and tankless WHs, and the tanks just don't work well for us.
We also have the Truma Aqua Go on Demand. It has a small reservoir which allows us to have "instant" hot water on demand. It's not immediate but very quick in both bathrooms, kitchen and shower. While I have not tested the temperature, it is necessary for us to mix cold in with the hot. We are located near Detroit, Michigan in Ontario and camp until mid October in sometimes pretty chilling weather. Thanks for doing the research Chad. Our experience over the last three years is that we will never return to a tank heater
I've got the 6 gal so I take the navy showers. I have an electric suburban tank and I feel like I get the hot water pretty quick. And I'm still using the Mopeka sensors on my propane and I love those things. Thank you for the testing videos. I wouldn't have known about that sensor if not for you
Excellent presentation! You answered the questions I've had about a switch to a tankless system. I'll be keeping my conventional water heater! Safe travels....
Thank you for doing this topic. We have the tankless in our Imagine 22mle and hate it for showering. We do what you mentioned with picking a lower temp and just run hot only but don't do navy style but just try to be quick. That waiting about 30-45 seconds for the hot water to come through is too long and wastes gray tank. We have considered checking on going back to the 6 gallon we had previously and it was excellent.
Thankyou for answering my questions on the "New" water heaters that these new campers are coming with.
I’m always learning something new. I never knew you could turn on the electric and gas water heater for faster recovery. Good stuff
Thanks for doing the comparison and proving what I've been saying. In my search for a new 5th wheel, the only manufacturers I found still offering tank heaters is Keystone in the Montana and Jayco on the North Pointe and Pennicle. Our current 5th wheel has a 12 gal heater. We've never run out of hot water and in almost 3 years haven't gone through 2 30 lb tanks of propane, never do that with a tankless heater. The industry is shoving the tankless down our throats with no options. While I can understand something better is needed for a 8 gal heater, I wish there would be a option.
Thanks Chad. I've wondered the same thing about the tankless heaters. They sound good, residential heaters work good, but you would have unlimited water.
I've also wondered about the water circulators for instant hot water at faucets. I didn't think they would work to well for an rv due to needing a loop water system.
Your test was good, didn't turn out quite how I figured. I'll just keep my old tank heater.
God bless ya'll and stay safe on your travels.
I HAVE THE FURRION INSTA HOT FOR ABOUT 7 MONTHS AND I LOVE IT, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND. 60000 BTU ...BOB FROM MESA AZ
Good to know, Bob! Thanks!
Super helpful my 2007 toy hauler has the 12 gal as well it just started to leak so this video is very informative thank you.
TONS of comments on how good the Truma on-demand is... If you want to try a tankless, that's the way to go it seems.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to compare systems! Hoping for an amazing 2024 for you and yours! 🖖🏻😘👍🏻🙏🏻
We have a 2022 Grand Design 295RL 5ht wheel that came with a Fusion tankless. Absolutely hated it... if the kitchen faucet was turned on while someone was taking a shower, it would stop heating. Cold shower! We changed it out to a 10(?) gallon tank. Love the tank water heater.
Most of our lives, we've had "normal" tanked water heaters, some electric, some natural gas. A few years ago, we stayed in a tiny home with a tankless water heater. For the last two-and-a-half plus years, we've lived in our RV with a hybrid, a Truma on-demand water heater, which maintains a very small tank at the set temp, and has the capacity to keep the water at that temp at high flow. I think that gives us good insight into the differences. We've pretty much decided the hybrid is the best.
First off, the delay in getting the initial hot water to the fixture is mostly a matter of the amount of piping between the heater and fixture. Our shower is very close to our water heater, so in an ideal world we'd get hot water to the shower very quickly. But the way it's plumbed, the hot water goes nearly to the front of the rig, to a manifold, and then back from that manifold to the shower, wasting time and water. IMO a poor design choice on the part of the RV manufacturer. Similarly, when you've had the water hot at the fixture, shut off the flow, and then restart it, that colder water you're getting is probably mostly from water in the pipes cooling down.
What we found with the tankless heater is a problem with low flow. If you turn the flow down to a trickle, the heater turns off, and now you're pumping cold water into the hot water line. Not good when you increase the flow again. You get a "cold water sandwich". With the hybrid, that isn't an issue, as it keeps the water at the set temp, regardless of flow. Taking a "Navy" or similar shower is entirely feasible with it. When fresh water, gray capacity, and propane aren't a concern, you can go the other extreme and take very long showers, back-to-back, run the dishwasher, the washing machine, or whatever, and not have to worry about running out. Doing two of those things at once could be an issue, but we haven't tested that. When we settle down again to a sticks-and-bricks, we may just get multiple hybrid water heaters, both to eliminate the issue of simultaneous fixture use and to ensure the hot water lines are short. We haven't measured the propane use, but have noticed that when we're not using either the furnace or the generator, our propane seems to last a long time. The furnace goes through it a lot faster, and the generator really burns it up. I'd have to guess that the Truma less efficient than the tankless though, since it's maintaining that small tank of hot water, and that tank *feels* hot, so it isn't well insulated. We've had a tanked water heater that felt cool to the touch, keeping its 50 gallons of water at 145F with very little loss to the environment.
Hi Chad, we have a Tuma tankless hot water heater, but ours has a recirculating pump in it with a small tank. It keeps the water warm through the trailer. it has two Settings, Eco, or recirculating.
Wow...that last fact about the colder source temperature on the tankless is enough for me to say "no thanks" to a tankless. Would be curious to know how much propane was used on the tank water heater when it was doing its recovery - 38 minutes @ 12,000 BTU. Cool comparison Chad, thank you.
We found one downside with the Truma is the fact that you have to descale it when it tells you, that process took 4hours each time, during that time not hot water.
We have a Dometic tank heater now and never ran out of hot water
We don’t do a lot of boondocking so we went with Girard tankless and love it. If we do boondock, it would only be a couple of days and that still wouldn’t be an issue for us.
Great video!
Chad thx for the info. Very detailed as usual. Staying with the Suburban W/H tank 12 gal. in our Alliance 310 Paradigm.
Please don’t take this the wrong way… I love watching your channel because you are a “fact geek”.
Safe travels, always.
Our new trailer came with the Girard tankless. Changed it out to a gas/electric after not getting hot water in a trip this past Easter in Colorado. Water barely got hot enough for a shower at 8000 elevation. Not the less I did not like the wasted water when dry camping
Very good test, you spent a lot of time on this. Unfortunately they weren’t the same rv’s so it’s hard to be exact but you did a great job and the video images of the timers were good. I found your results were exactly what I experienced before removing an existing on demand and replaced it with the OE 10gal. I hated the demand. The other thing you kind of mentioned but didn’t expand on was your source water. If you have a tank htr and your source is 39 like you said it would eventually get hot and not be limited to your btu’s. You might never get your water hot enough😮
Great video thx . Would be cool to see a test with the truma . You guys are awesome thx again for all the great content . Happy new year & safe travels.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
I need to preface this with the statement that my wife passed away from brain cancer ten years ago from this coming June 30. When she was still here, I would get in the shower first while she was doing her morning thing, like putting drained dishes away, putting pots and pans away, making the bed, etcetera. I would be pretty efficient showering and towling down. As I finished up, the hot water heater would finish recovering and shut off. I would then open my propane Coleman stove outdoors (which I had modified to run on an external twenty pound propane tank) and get ready to cook breakfast. By the time the bacon, eggs, and skillet toast were ready, she was ready to come outdoors and enjoy breakfast together. The timing was perfect and we enjoyed our mornings together this way. When the outside weather was undesirable, we would modify the routine by cooking inside, but it was surprising how much we enjoyed outdoor breakfast on chilly mornings!! Windy rainy days kept us inside!! Our tank type propane hot water heater served us very well!!
We use Agua Go tankless and the initial cold water we save and we use in the Berkeley water system.
It's way too early in the year for math! Very good testing, well done. I have worked on both styles of water heaters. The folks who have the On Demand love it. Only because they don't boondock, and want to take a shower like they did in their homes. I had thought about an on demand if the Suburban gave out in the future. But after seeing the hard numbers of your testing, I'm putting another 12 gallon tank back in there. The trick with an on demand heater is the temperature increase. They are only rated for a 40-50 degree increase in water temperature over the incoming water temperature. They are a snap to winterize, too, especially the Truma.
This is a good analysis if you don't move around a lot. If your on the road it's tankless that will easily win. My wife would be waiting (a long time)for that slow tank heat up (using a lot of LP and electricity) so she could take a shower. When arriving at destination same issue.
I have a Suburban ST-60 tankless water heater. I get hot water at any fixture in 15 seconds. Works great.
The 60000 BTU units is designed for colder climates and has a pilot that will keep it from freezing as long as you have gas and 12 volts
what do you mean by as long as you have "gas"? Is it running off the gasoline tank without propane?
Propane.
You always do a great job in testing thing Keep it up help me make good decision's . I installed a 12 volt recirculation valve in my 1921 Grand Design with a Fusion On Demand and never wast any water and love how you can adjust to any temp for showering 106 degrees works for me, shower as long as you want. Except when boon-docking.
Chad, my wife and I have a 2020 Keystone Alpine with the Suburban tankless water heater. It is 60,000 btu, and we love it for the ability to take unlimited showers. However, I too have noticed many drawbacks, most of which you have already mentioned. I'll mention a few more. First, it is supposed to have a recirculate option that maintains instant hot water at the expense of using much more gas to keep it hot. However, this feature has never worked in our RV, and I loath dealing with RV dealerships, so I just never addressed it. We rarely camp without full hookups, so it hasn't been a real problem for us. We did discover that when at a place with very low water pressure, the water heater would sometimes not register water flow and stop running. We got around it by setting the temperature lower and using only the hot water. I believe that if we were to do it again, I would just go back to the 12 gallon gas/electric version. After all, with both gas and electric turned on, they work kind of like a tankless too. Great video, as always!
cycle the water back to the tank and use when its at temp. Did the same with my tank system. No more waste water.
We have the same heater as you do. Just the 2 of us also. When showering, we turn on both gas and electric and find that the 16 gallons per hour recovery rate makes it so we never run out of hot water.
I have a tankless and love it. I have RA and need fairly frequent long hot showers. We're TT members so 90% of the time we have full hookups and don't stay at a site without sewer for longer than a week at a time. If we don't have full hookups I'll just use the bathhouse. It's worth it for us to deal with it being occasionally inconvenient when we don't have sewer, though I could see it being less useful for someone who frequently doesn't have full hookups. The model we have is a GIRARD Tankless RV Water Heater, 12V Power, 42,000 BTUs, 2GWHAM which I think is roughly equivalent to what you were testing. I will say that we've stayed in some pretty cold temperatures, including in Texas when they had the big freeze event a bit ago, and have never had issues with getting the water hot enough.
Hi Chad, we have the Truma Aqua Go on demand system. Love it. Ours does use a lot of propane. Can’t recommend it enough. Don’t go with the furrion. Test the Truma one.
That's what we have, and I'm really pleased with the propane consumption. I was expecting it to be a lot worse than it is, in practice I really don't even notice the propone use, it's that slight (we do have 2 40lb tanks though).
As always, I love your videos. I learn something new every time. Great job😃
Thanks for confirming what I noticed already between our 2021 Imagine and 2022 Reflection systems. I prefer the tank system in our Imagine. On top of what you pointed out, if the rv park water pressure too low you will get an error on the tankless. There has been times that I had to switch the pump on and use water from our fresh water tank in the Reflection. Being ex military my wife and I could take back to back showers with our 12 gal tank in our 2018 Jayco Toyhauler before we switch to the two Grand Designs.
You can add a circulation pump to a residential instanteous water heater that circulates the water from the hot water line back to the cold. You just hit a button, wait a few seconds, and have hot water immediately. This would mean zero wasted water. I don't know if they are available for RV's yet, but that would take both of the cons away and make them pros.
Tiffin has the recirculation in the shower.
More add ons to break and maintain. Pumps wear out too.
@@Garth2011 true. That said, the pressure difference between the hot and cold lines at a fixture is zero. The pump would not have to work very hard to recirculate the water.
Suburban makes them, Airstream offers them. We have one in our 16' Basecamp, model IW60RL.
We ran the same Girard heater on our trailer last year, it was 40 or so days of camping before we used up a single 30lb bottle, with a family of six, at least one shower every day and regular dishes.
I think they are very efficient cost wise. They have a larger burner than a tank style, but aren’t cycling constantly. One thing about the Mopeka is it probably has fixed increments on the scale, so I wouldn’t math it out based on a single tick on the readout. I’m sure it would be accurate on an extended test.
With the lag and the weakness at cycling water you do have to adjust habits. I don’t navy shower but shower fast. We do dishes much like you suggested with filling the sink as we wash.
If I were to replace it I wouldn’t go to a tanked heater. I’d look into recirculating valves others have suggested, or look at a brand called Truma which has a different design. On the days where six people need to shower, tankless is much faster.
You should have tested the tankless pulling water from the fresh water tank, which isn’t as cold as water coming from the city water line. Thats one strategy for getting faster hot water with less wasted water.
He did at the end.
@@NickKarpennot actually. Like Chad said, the water in the tank was in the high 30-degree range because he didn’t have the furnace running to keep the rig at a temperature it would normally be at if they were staying in it. So, that wasn’t test using fresh tank water under normal conditions.
HI CHAD & TARA 👋
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING ABOUT THE WATER BEING COLD UNTIL THE HOT WATER REACHED WHERE YOU WERE AT IN THE RV .
FROM THE VIDEO FOOTAGE 📹 THE NEWER ONE LOOKED SMALLER SO IT SHOULDN'T TAKE AS LONG FOR THE HEATED WATER TO REACH YOU . THEY SHOULD MAKE A RETURN RECYCLING HOT WATER LINE TO GO BACK TO THE MAIN TANK OR A SMALLER RECYCLING TANK IF YOU KNOW WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT THAN NOTHING GETS WASTED , 💧, HOPE YOU BOTH & THE PUP 🐶 ARE DOING WELL . BE SAFE ! HAVE FUN ! ENJOYED ❤ GOD BLESS YOU BOTH &THE PUP ALWAYS ON YOUR ADVENTURES 🙏 THANK YOU 😊
Our Holiday Rambler came with the Truma tankless water heater. We love it. The Truma does have a small mixing container that may help with the cycling of water. Also I'm not sure if it makes a difference but when we take showers we always hit the pause button on the shower head and don't turn the water off. You get a small squirt of cold water as you resume water flow but it doesn't go back to cold running water. I would like to actually run a test like you did on ours now, you made me curious.
There has been a lot of praise of the Truma in the comments.. I think that mixing tank makes all the difference.
Chad great video. When winter camping the tank heater helps keep the basement warmer as well as the plumbing around it. I'm not sure a tankless is the best thing if you're snow camping.
The ambient temperature of the water is probably an equal in both systems, heck the water from our hookup in Arizona was bath temperature right at the tap.
We love our Furrion tankless. Have had it for over a year and absolutely love the change. Best decision we made. We had a 12 gallon. As you said, we could use it but had to manage. It went bad so we replaced with tankless and think it’s so much better for us. Yes you do need to let it run for a few seconds, but if I’m boondocking, I run that water into a cup or pail and reuse it to flush the toilet. It’s never taken more than 5-10 seconds to get our hot water. Maybe it was the brand you were using - or maybe it’s the lover Bri’s on that unit?? Pros on the tankless: all the hot water you want (as long as you have propane), less weight to carry around on travel days, can set temp to what we prefer for our showers, we do use less propane then before - so that cost has gone down (the electric on our other one didn’t keep it at our preferred temp). No need to manage our showers - and I can wash dishes while he is showering!
Ours is a Chinook Oasis tankless that runs on both electric and diesel. We have a diesel pusher class A.
Unfortunately there is a huge difference in on demand water heaters. We had a Girad same as you tested. It was an abysmal unit, just terrible. The RV dealer and I got on a phone call with Girad and they validated our challenges with the unit, same as yours. Our current RV has a Truma, fantastic unit with none of the problems of the Girad. It is a hybrid with a very small tank that eliminates nearly all the problems you have with the Girad plus the value of continuous hot water. One item you didn’t cover is the propane needed to keep your tank type water heater hot. That is simply wasted energy especially off grid. Love your channel.