Remelting 3D printed thermoplastics (the salt method)

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 21 вер 2020
  • This is a method I developed a few years back for my day job. We needed watertight containers made from PETG as we were handling chemicals that would easily diffuse through - and break down all other commercially available thermoplastics.
    After some trials with sand I started using finely ground salt. It perfectly immobilizes the parts, and gets only superficially embedded. Once the parts are baked, the salt will have superficially embedded itself into the part surface. Washing the part in warm water will dissolve all the salt, leaving behind a sparkly texture.
    This technique opens up a whole new dimension for makers. Not only can we make our components much stronger, we can now cheaply prototype valves, pressure vessels, hose fittings etc., without having to rely on resin printers.
    This method does have disadvantages though. It takes quite a bit of labor and it limits the depth of undercuts that can be used. Hollow parts need to have an easily accessible hole.
    Any question you have, write them in the comments :)
  • Наука та технологія

КОМЕНТАРІ • 948

  • @CNCKitchen
    @CNCKitchen 3 роки тому +979

    Oh, that's really nice. Great work & thanks for sharing!

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +203

      A visit from you Stefan, is an honor.

    • @performante1
      @performante1 3 роки тому +29

      Hallo Stefan, I just saw your episode on plaster, great idea, but I think this salt method might work better for you. Self drying because it's highly hydrophilic and will dry your part . Then washes off easier!
      Look forward to it! Ciao.

    • @anonymouse527
      @anonymouse527 3 роки тому +31

      This could be a good solution to manufacture strong parts before moving onto injection molding.

    • @neilbradley9035
      @neilbradley9035 3 роки тому +45

      Would be cool to see you testing part strength using this method Stefan. :)

    • @talibanezos
      @talibanezos 3 роки тому +32

      I see a new video Stefan?

  • @AtrusOranis
    @AtrusOranis 3 роки тому +320

    Essentially, you are using packed salt to create a cast and then remelting the part, using the plastic as its own casting material. Very clever!

    • @ethaneveraldo
      @ethaneveraldo 3 роки тому +4

      Thank you for explaining this

    • @admniyeokuyorsun...3044
      @admniyeokuyorsun...3044 2 роки тому +6

      Yeah I thought the same, also it might be better to use fine mold sand instead of salt to have finer details.

    • @rileyneufeld7001
      @rileyneufeld7001 2 роки тому +9

      @@admniyeokuyorsun...3044 Only problem with that is the sand will remelt into the surface of the part. Thats why as fine salt as possible is the best option. It's water soluble so it just rinses off.

    • @fluxcapacitor
      @fluxcapacitor Рік тому +1

      Unless salt solidifies a bit with the heat and makes a rigid crust before the plastic totally melts

  • @valdolandar534
    @valdolandar534 Рік тому +21

    An idea for those who want to try, mix fine salt with wheat flour in the right amount for the flour to occupy the empty sites between the salt grains. This can get a surface more similar to printing.

  • @AberrantAberrant
    @AberrantAberrant 3 роки тому +8

    Am I the only one that really appreciates the use of rain sounds? That made this so much more pleasant.

    • @mt.sinairefuge5360
      @mt.sinairefuge5360 5 місяців тому +1

      yes, I hate when people put their crazy music..like I want to hear that crap when I am trying to learn something.

  • @Naomi-Wu
    @Naomi-Wu 3 роки тому +220

    Excellent!

    • @freexmonster
      @freexmonster 3 роки тому +3

      Hi Naomi, will you do this salt test on your channel?

    • @Naomi-Wu
      @Naomi-Wu 3 роки тому +2

      @@freexmonster probably not. I don't need super strong parts like this.

  • @johnturner8286
    @johnturner8286 3 роки тому +130

    Clever! The salt scavenges any moisture the resin outgasses and passivates the surface in the bargain.
    It would be interesting to try this with outright water-binding hygroscopic salts such as calcium chloride. If you first heat-treat the calcium chloride to 260 Celsius to get the anhydrate before packing it on the workpieces, it would then spend the entire annealing process seizing moisture from its surroundings thus protecting the workpiece from hydrolysis.
    Working with any salt, you'd likely also end up forming in-situ organic salt within the workpiece's surface, as any unsatisfied acidic resin will want to borrow alkali from the salt. That's the passivation aspect. Machining waxes take up alkali this way and become tempered, like tempered glass or steel.
    To get quite fine salt you need to mill it not grind it. A ball mill would be ideal. UA-cam's got some hits for "ball mill homemade". Ball mills are obnoxiously noisy but they sure do the job.

    • @adamrak7560
      @adamrak7560 3 роки тому +6

      - homemade ball mills tend to "mill" themselves too. So you may be slightly gray discoloration with the salt. The discoloration will then transfer to the parts. This can be avoided by timing things right, because salt should become fine powder quite fast.
      I haven't even heard about chemical surface treatment of 3D FDM printed parts (except moisture removal), but it sound intriguing.
      Lactic acid is one of the most powerful organic acids, PLA acid ends would be quite powerful, but also quite rare. (PLA molecules are 1000-2000 long usually)

    • @johnturner8286
      @johnturner8286 3 роки тому +10

      @@adamrak7560 To avoid metal debris in industry, they use Ceramic Grinding Media (little porcelain bits and pieces) in a drum-shaped porcelain jar. Using porcelain media in a steel-walled mill would also help. It's actually cheaper than steel media.

    • @aserta
      @aserta 3 роки тому

      Yup. Milling is the right way. Metal spice mill is the go round, since it leaves nothing behind.

    • @josephrossman1600
      @josephrossman1600 3 роки тому +3

      In my experience with keeping r-candy anhydrous with CaCl, it quickly becomes a nightmare if it absorbs too much moisture. If you leave it uncovered in a container it will actually absorb enough water to dissolve itself, it’s amazing! What happens though is when you dry it, it becomes rock solid and is suuch a pain to dry and then pulverize.

    • @CAPTAINCAPSLOCK111
      @CAPTAINCAPSLOCK111 3 роки тому +1

      Probably a good method for polymers that have a high water uptake like PA6 or PA6.6. Maybe a good idea not to use pure CaCl2 since it gets weird properties when taking up moisture, but as a mixture of NaCl and CaCl2 as moisture scavenger it would be perfect. thanks for the idea!

  • @Alx2672
    @Alx2672 3 роки тому +50

    Print 2 parts with metal mesh between them, they'll melt and encapsulate the mesh. Use thin leads between the printed pieces and when it melts together you'll make waterproof, shock proof, damage resistant circuits.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +32

      I did some embedded transparencies and some nuts and bolts. Also did a joint (fusing of two parts printed separately). It's like you read my mind.
      For the circuits, the cables don't even have to have sleeves, hell, you don't even have to pre-solder.
      I'll see if I can do the mesh thing you suggested ;)

    • @ivanadiego6067
      @ivanadiego6067 Рік тому +2

      You could probably do something similar using carbon or glass fiber reinforcement if you could make it to stay suck to the plastic and then remelt the part using this method, but I don't know if there's a way of doing that. maybe some kind of glue that bakes off or turns into plastic too. probably another option would be placing the glass fiber over the salt, then the printed part over it and covering it all with salt.

  • @free_spirit1
    @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +392

    A few recurring questions I've gotten:
    -CNC kitchen released the strength test results! => /watch?v=DyAKtS1b3SQ&ab_channel=CNCKitchen
    -It's a convection oven, not a microwave.
    -This works only for 100% infill parts.
    -Sand and talc would probably work (personally I only tried sand), but the particles get embedded in the surface. With salt this happens too, but you can just dissolve them with water.

    • @TheCreativeautomaton
      @TheCreativeautomaton 3 роки тому +2

      do you have any rGO powder at hand? I wonder if a salt mixture with GO or rGO would make a carbon similar part.

    • @mikehus7439
      @mikehus7439 3 роки тому

      so you saying salt is bad as dissolves in water?

    • @robertcrawford6075
      @robertcrawford6075 3 роки тому +19

      @@mikehus7439 no salt is good because it dissolves in water to leave the plastic clean. Sand just gets stuck in the plastic and is difficult to remove.

    • @mikehus7439
      @mikehus7439 3 роки тому

      @@robertcrawford6075 so what do you suggest? Salt?Sand? Any other powder?

    • @michaelnoardo3315
      @michaelnoardo3315 3 роки тому +1

      no one to tell wheter microwave or oven

  • @notsonominal
    @notsonominal 3 роки тому +4

    Holy moly! I finally tried this, with PLA, only went to 100C but near perfect dimensions and fully annealed. Thanks for sharing!

  • @thor_269
    @thor_269 3 роки тому +26

    I like this. It's like a step between sls and fdm, but way saltier. Can't wait for you to find out more

  • @Celle527
    @Celle527 3 роки тому +8

    My next level evolution to this concept that I’m eager to try is using an induction top to precisely heat water to a specific temp and place the salt packed part over it in a double boiler. Ovens have to heat over their intended temp in order to reach it and even if it is as accurate as possible (they never are) then heating element shuts off and the air in the oven begins cooling while we’re trying to heat the part as consistently and steadily as possible. Both impart huge variables that take guesswork AND more equipment to account for.
    Heat from conduction of water is literally the basis for our standard of heating, and induction ranges are the most accurate and easily manipulated way to heat water (not to mention the fastest) Then the water also helps in the cooling stage as well because the more evenly and slowly it cools the stronger the part should be. The biggest question in my mind is whether I should go for a packed sealed container (glass or metal?) or in a heat safe baggie sous vide style...
    I guess I’ll have to try all 3, and if I’m right at all in my thinking one of them might even work with less than %100 infill parts because I’ll have THAT much more control over the heat transfer

    • @max_kl
      @max_kl 6 місяців тому +1

      The temperature is way above the boiling point of water

  • @frank-af
    @frank-af 3 роки тому +125

    Really cool! You can get bulk "flour salt" cheap, basically just powdered salt. A rim sieve would make filtering out chunks easy too

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +58

      I wish I had known this before ruining my blender motor 😂.
      Thanks for sharing, this helps everyone who wants to try this!

    • @victorlazaro6331
      @victorlazaro6331 3 роки тому +3

      @@free_spirit1 I fount this which might be goo for that purpose: smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T1LZ4D2/

    • @pariscloud2907
      @pariscloud2907 3 роки тому +6

      @@victorlazaro6331 I see you are a man of culture as well (the smile link)

    • @DracoDrakie
      @DracoDrakie 3 роки тому +3

      Hey, I have hard time to find the same or similar product. Ebay, local, and "Morton" brand flour salt on there own website is seemingly only available for selectively USA wholesaler's/producers.
      Even de Amazon link seems not available. Tried also to find bulk "popcorn salt" but I've seen rarely one without additives that are not suitable for the method we would like to use.
      Power to the community, hope someone else has idea.
      Making our own is quite labor intensive at also the cost of most grinders are not suitable to grind large batches of salt?! If I believe that the "Morton flour salt" is around €100 for ~25Kg I would definitely buy it.

    • @czyivn2
      @czyivn2 3 роки тому +7

      ​@@free_spirit1 I have already tried the method with flour salt, and it definitely behaves differently than what you showed. I got a pretty decent PETG part that only shrunk from 55mm down to 54, but the flour salt I used (and all the other ones I could find) has an anti-caking agent in it that keeps it from hardening into a brick like you showed.

  • @user-ky1ln6gu4c
    @user-ky1ln6gu4c 3 роки тому +3

    Thanks for the emotional tutorials and sophisticated tools. From Japan 🇯🇵

  • @thek3743
    @thek3743 3 роки тому +162

    Amazing! CNCkitchen should test this!

    • @philiplosansky7191
      @philiplosansky7191 3 роки тому +4

      He did but with plaster, Parts can be much stronger depending on form and infill.

    • @PartTimeRonin
      @PartTimeRonin 3 роки тому +12

      @@philiplosansky7191 I think he should do a follow up on that video since the first one is more of annealing not remelting,
      free spirit 1 uses a much higher temperature here.

    • @scorfman1
      @scorfman1 3 роки тому +4

      @@PartTimeRonin your wish has been granted.

  • @brad4edat
    @brad4edat 2 роки тому +14

    I use flour! The printed parts are hardened in flour in the same way, but the walls of the part remain smooth and greasy, and not rough as salt! I use the flour many times :)

    • @DIYToPen
      @DIYToPen Рік тому +1

      Plain flour burns. Don't try this.

    • @brad4edat
      @brad4edat Рік тому +2

      @@DIYToPen Is it possible at such a low temperature of 120-130 degrees to catch fire. Don't you need at least 200-300 degrees?

    • @DIYToPen
      @DIYToPen Рік тому +2

      @@brad4edat Yes, I tried flour because I didn't have anything else around, hoping it would be an easy solution. Not thinking that bread burns, so why wouldn't flour. At PETG temperatures of 250c or so, it burnt quickly. Though I reread your comment, and it doesn't physically catch fire, 120-130 degrees isn't enough to melt plastic. I think flour will set on fire at about 500 degrees. Also flour has the risk of exploding if it suddenly gets in the air.

    • @brad4edat
      @brad4edat Рік тому +2

      @@DIYToPen for anealing plastic is need 120-130c. I anealing super pla plastic and alway at 120degre. And plastic anealing very good.

    • @DIYToPen
      @DIYToPen Рік тому +4

      @@brad4edat This video is about remelting plastic, not annealing

  • @hieroben
    @hieroben 3 роки тому +18

    I have tried this method and it was a total failure - but I think I know why: I bought a super fine salt also known as "popcorn salt". It seemed ideal for this task because it has a very fine grain. But the problem is that it contains a special anti-clumping agent (as far as I know, all these salts do). In our case though, this 'clumping' seems exactly what we want. The compacted salt must form a semi-solid mold around the melting part to prevent deforming.
    It was very difficult to compact this salt. It stayed loose and flexible under your fingers like very dry sand on the beach. After I put everything in the oven, it took only a few minutes for the first cracks to appear on top of the salt. A little later, the whole mold collapsed and I ended up with a clunky blob of plastic.
    My advice: Don't buy the super fine salt but make your own! This works well as shown in the video. I will definitely try it. Most normal table salts also contain some amount of anti-clumping agent. Maybe I can find one without.
    Thank you for this great method! I will continue trying to reproduce it.

    • @hieroben
      @hieroben 3 роки тому +2

      I found salt without anti-clumping agents in an organic food store (Alnatura) here in Germany.

    • @BrunodeSouzaLino
      @BrunodeSouzaLino 3 роки тому +1

      Your special anti-clumping agent is calcium carbonate, also known as chalk.

    • @hieroben
      @hieroben 3 роки тому +4

      @@BrunodeSouzaLino No, in my case it is natriumferrocyanid and natriumcarbonate.

    • @jayphone1
      @jayphone1 3 роки тому

      I used popcorn (flour) salt with great success. But I am not sure if it had anti clumping agent in it.

    • @jayphone1
      @jayphone1 3 роки тому

      I just checked mine, it had the same in it and it still worked excellently. I put pressure on the salt maybe that's the difference.

  • @thumbwarriordx
    @thumbwarriordx 3 роки тому +9

    These results from a soluble support material are really impressive.
    Salt seems dead obvious in retrospect but in my book that makes being the person who figured it out and put it into the world even more impressive.
    Congrats.

  • @peteronthefarm8430
    @peteronthefarm8430 3 роки тому +25

    PLA is behaving differently because of the slow heatup time. It goes through a crystalisation process while being heat treated, gaining a temp resistance of 250+.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +7

      Thank you, this is really useful for future experiments!

    • @vertabine
      @vertabine 3 роки тому +2

      @@free_spirit1 try having PLA in oven longer period of time, its big mass you are trying to heat and takes long time to that heat to reach inner PLA part with set temperature and if not gained result your liking, rise temp?
      With Pork in oven, its 1hour per 1kg, if doing welldone to get inside to 80C with set of 180C oven temperature its even more like 1.5h to 2hours. i tried to find correct heat absorption / transfer values for salt and meat, but didnt find same values for both...
      i found study paper where it is shown at 180c oven with 1.4kg Bovine muscle 18cm diameter placed on a grill. for surface to reach 80C, its 40min. to reach 90c its 85mins. while its Core is 40C at 60min and 65C at 85mins.
      lets say this would be rougly the same as your cooking as heat transfer and weight, it would seem to be too short of a time?
      i would say that if you wish to get part temperature to certain point, dont set oven temp too much over but extend your time 3x. this could work for pla since shown time it didnt work well.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +3

      @@vertabine i think you're right. On some of the parts the PLA was indeed starting to melt at the corners. It doesn't help that glass and salt don't exactly have a high thermal conductivity (and PLA has one of the lowest thermal conductivities of all common thermoplastics). Next tests I will fill the tub with thermocouples.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому

      @@vertabine also, in general I prefer to use a stainless sealed container for this method, it makes the salt cake up during the process and keeps the parts more firmly in place.
      But regardless, the PLA parts that did start melting were quite deformed, so my expectations are modest.

    • @vertabine
      @vertabine 3 роки тому +2

      @@free_spirit1 for pla, if they get deformed, temp should be kept lower, since printing point is at 180-215.. some pla can be pushed through nozzle at 160c. If you had oven at over 210c, it can be the case that deformed corners were literally melting pla over malluable state.
      Lower temp like to 160c and have it in there like 6-8 hours. That should make sure its 100% heat saturated and you can see how that does affect. With this method you can see even result, is it too hot or cold. Coupled with thermocoupler you can see how long does it take to saturate it fully.
      Untill you have found right settings, you should overshoot big with oven time. When you find decent result, then you start to shave time to get same time with minimal time.
      This is propably easiest and fastest way.

  • @lagynas
    @lagynas 3 роки тому +59

    Note for future videos: keep subtitles for at least twice longer. Anyway, good work, looking forward to pressure test.

    • @mmace3
      @mmace3 3 роки тому

      Just change the playback speed, there's no talking on the video so no problem.

  • @_r-a-f_
    @_r-a-f_ 3 роки тому +5

    You, my friend deserve a medal! This is excellent!

  • @garyhoffmann1615
    @garyhoffmann1615 3 роки тому +55

    One thing that may help is to vibrate the whole container once in the salt. An orbital sander with the rubber pad pressed against the container might do it.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +12

      Thanks Gary, I may try that.

    • @TheNadOby
      @TheNadOby 3 роки тому +9

      Hard to say about vibrating but packing methods used for casting might be useful.
      Also smaller the particles better the deformation resistance might be.

    • @pbft.j
      @pbft.j Рік тому +2

      For anyone that wants to try this: a massage gun with a soft attachment does this marvelously.

    • @CompletelyNormalPhenomenon
      @CompletelyNormalPhenomenon 8 місяців тому

      good idea, thanks@@pbft.j

  • @letoatreides8337
    @letoatreides8337 3 роки тому +3

    I used Kapton tape on my print and it looked very nice and completely smooth, no layer lines at all. The part was in the oven for 45 min at 230c with seasalt power, no problem for the tape. It also seems to stop/counter minor deformations and warping.

  • @Modern-Crafts
    @Modern-Crafts 3 роки тому +5

    Really interesting approach, and the parts look really nice. I am definitely going to try this myself

  • @noahgeerdink5144
    @noahgeerdink5144 3 роки тому +3

    Really nice, this takes 3D printing to an other level

  • @drewartturbine
    @drewartturbine 3 роки тому +2

    Very Helpful, thank you for posting the excellent video. And thanks for keeping the sound track low key and pleasant.

  • @D7XYZproductions
    @D7XYZproductions 3 роки тому +3

    This is great! Pushing the medium into new places!

  • @queenidog1
    @queenidog1 Рік тому

    Incredible! You put in a round bottle and out came a nice corner bracket. It's magic!

  • @michaelbernardvillena6636
    @michaelbernardvillena6636 3 роки тому

    Omg can't wait for the pressure test! Awesome work mister. Am once again inspired to print structural strength DIY items.

  • @Booruvcheek
    @Booruvcheek 3 роки тому +5

    I have seen people doing this with plaster, but salt should be much easier to work with, specifically much easier to remove.
    Great idea.

    • @nicolasmedina2978
      @nicolasmedina2978 3 роки тому +3

      what if you "paint" the piece with plaster and do this process ?

  • @DennisJHarrisonJrHere
    @DennisJHarrisonJrHere 3 роки тому +15

    Holy shit. This is amazing, and in retrospect - obvious. That's how you know it's a really great idea :D Thank you!

  • @justin8363
    @justin8363 3 роки тому +1

    I tried this method for ABS using a convection oven and flour salt and it works great after some trial and error. Thanks for the idea!

  • @KnobbyHobby4130
    @KnobbyHobby4130 3 роки тому

    Thanks for taking the time to share this process, you have given me inspiration to try it.

  • @LuparaX2
    @LuparaX2 3 роки тому +24

    A small tip about filming for next time. Use progressive not interlaced mode if possible (1080p not 1080i), it gets rid of the tearing artifacts of moving objects.

    • @mrfumetsu
      @mrfumetsu 3 роки тому +5

      or just disable resample on the clip in the video editor

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +2

      Thanks for the tips guys! Totally new to this :/

  • @pyromanci2736
    @pyromanci2736 3 роки тому +31

    This method has been around for a while and can be done without 100% infill . It's supportive annealing. It's often used in a large scale manufacturing on parts that need it and even done to injected and vacuum molded parts. It follows the same basic principals of annealing metal.
    The medium in which you use doesn't matter that much. Needs to be easy to compact and break apart. Salt is cost effective for home applications, but wear gloves. It can be absorbed through the skin. Green Sand is better, but requires mold release component.
    For the absolute strongest bond and highest temp resistance:
    Locate your glass transition temperature of filament you printed the part in (may have to call the manufacture to get it. Each brand will be different. though it's close to 60-65 °C for pla).
    Now the trick is heating times. You need to let it get up to temperature completely, but ideally put the part in the oven before heating it.
    The plastic inside the sand it needs to be at temperature for 30min + 15min per 1/8" thickness in the cross section.
    Then over 12-15hrs you need to let it (the plastic) slowly fall in temperature in a controlled manner. The temperature to let it fall to will vary from material to material. You will have to look it up (PLA is room temp, ABS is 60-65C for example).
    Then remove from the sand and let cool to room temp if still needs cooling.

    • @mikehus7439
      @mikehus7439 3 роки тому +2

      Wow you seem to know your craft.
      Quick question; I dont have a microwave; would an oven alone work or do you suggest both; oven and microwave?

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +19

      My goal here is not annealing but remelting, since I use this mostly to make waterproof containers. When remelting the medium does matter, as the grains get embedded in the object's surface and salt is soluble in water.

    • @jeffvader811
      @jeffvader811 3 роки тому +4

      @@mikehus7439
      This isn't a microwave, it's just a normal oven (plastic doesn't absorb a lot of microwave radiation).

    • @mikehus7439
      @mikehus7439 3 роки тому

      @@jeffvader811 at min 2:22, it looks like a microwave to me, no?

    • @jeffvader811
      @jeffvader811 3 роки тому +1

      @@mikehus7439
      Looks like, but it isn't (he said so in another comment).

  • @antonwinter630
    @antonwinter630 3 роки тому +1

    thanks for sharing the technique. it is amazing that there isn't much deformation.

  • @AdrianoCasemiro
    @AdrianoCasemiro 3 роки тому

    So it is a safe method to hardened PLA prints. I like the sound of parts knocking on each other. Little deformation and smooth finish. Great job.

  • @mrphyslaw
    @mrphyslaw 3 роки тому +4

    It would be interesting to see what adding a vibratory compaction step would do. It could ensure almost complete compaction of the salt without all the labor.

  • @TheMikolasZuza
    @TheMikolasZuza 3 роки тому +3

    wow, that's super cool. Thanks for showing us :)

  • @vazgeraldes
    @vazgeraldes 3 роки тому

    Excellent post processing technique. Thanks for sharing.

  • @adeoliveirafilho
    @adeoliveirafilho 3 роки тому

    very, very cool method! Congratulations and thank you for sharing!

  • @rafaeltogami
    @rafaeltogami 3 роки тому +3

    This is a really good idea! I was thinking about doing this with a silicone mold (pour silicone molding over the part, let it cure, put in the oven and then rip apart the silicone mold), but the way you did is much faster, cheaper, cleaner and probably doesn’t trap air bubbles and moisture.
    Nice background sound too, never saw a video with a storm as background music (except for videos of real storms...)

    • @Netherdan
      @Netherdan 3 роки тому

      There's Sage's Rain, he extracts bits of wisdom mostly from anime but also from other media and the subtle rain background is kinda soothing

  • @Mtaalas
    @Mtaalas 3 роки тому +4

    This is clever as hell... I would love to see strength tests between melted and not melted pressure vessels :)

    • @ph1gm3nt
      @ph1gm3nt 3 роки тому

      CNCKitchen, did a bunch of tests based on this specific process. Some things improved, and some stayed the same.

  • @AlfredoAntonioMartinez
    @AlfredoAntonioMartinez 3 роки тому +1

    Thanks alot for this video and share your knowledge! it is an amazing technique! I definitely need to test it!

  • @martinem78
    @martinem78 3 роки тому +2

    Amazing! Thank you for sharing this... looks like a game changer for me!!!

  • @widgetlad5157
    @widgetlad5157 3 роки тому +4

    Nice, I could really use this for some of my prints that need more mechanical strength.

  • @dineshvyas
    @dineshvyas 3 роки тому +9

    I did it with my DIY stand dril project. part printed with PETG. it hold drill like steel clamp.

  • @gordonbelfort7176
    @gordonbelfort7176 3 роки тому

    Nice, I have found the same method, but had used quartz sand instead. Salt is an brilliant addition because it will take partly the fumes and moisture. Great video. Thx

  • @SpinStar1956
    @SpinStar1956 5 місяців тому

    Wow, this video is 3-years old and I finally run across it!
    Anyway, I have heard/seen the salt trick before but never have I seen it come out this good.
    I have been looking for a way to get rid of the surface porosity using PETG.
    Seeing how good yours has come out I may give this a try. Thanks for posting and hopefully you can show us a few other tricks in the future...

  • @robertschulke1596
    @robertschulke1596 3 роки тому +3

    Awesome. You might want to run the salt through a sifter. A tumbler with metal balls might work for breaking it up.

  • @neopen2
    @neopen2 3 роки тому +22

    The background music is so interesting.

    • @chiuviktor6574
      @chiuviktor6574 3 роки тому +2

      Yeah what was that? A 90 yrs old Taiwanese folklore?

    • @yu-mingchang2256
      @yu-mingchang2256 3 роки тому +2

      Taiwanese song, I speak the language. So surprised to hear it.

  • @jeffreybell436
    @jeffreybell436 3 роки тому +2

    The thunder at the beginning was a great mood setter.

  • @thegrumpytexan
    @thegrumpytexan 3 роки тому +1

    This is awesome! Would like to see more with PLA at higher temperatures if you have time. Thanks!!

  • @ThePazuzu
    @ThePazuzu 3 роки тому +54

    Upvote for the myfordboy reference.

  • @slayyou
    @slayyou 3 роки тому +6

    Gona try this on some flexibles!

    • @avialexander
      @avialexander 3 роки тому +2

      Oh, that would be really cool! I wonder if this method would allow very thin flexible pieces to be printed without worrying about tearing or fracture?

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +3

      Dude, dual material. Flexibles over rigid, to simulate overmoulding!

  • @seraaron
    @seraaron 6 місяців тому +1

    i like the rain and thunder sfx

  • @BSCHAFER11
    @BSCHAFER11 3 роки тому

    Excellent ingenuity at play here. keep it up your teaching us all something with your findings thanks

  • @designersmind3140
    @designersmind3140 3 роки тому +4

    This is awesome. I'm pretty sure the reason the PLA needs a higher temperature is because of the crystallization that occurs when heated which increases it's thermal resistance. You would have to overcome that to truly remelt it, though I wonder if that might actually make it less durable than the crystallized version.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +3

      Yeah, it seems that's what happens. In the comment I pinned, there's a researcher who was doing remelting with PLA and he found that remelting past that point does indeed damage the material and decreases its mechancal properties

    • @Balorng
      @Balorng 3 роки тому

      I think you may want to remelt PLA in two steps: remelt, cool, anneal.

  • @igotsth
    @igotsth 3 роки тому +4

    Would be interesting to see the results for multi-colour prints and rainbow prints

  • @ThePosticeage
    @ThePosticeage 3 роки тому

    The ground salt approach is a clever idea like you said. No salt residue expected after all. I will try myself.

  • @scriptguru8
    @scriptguru8 3 роки тому

    Very cool idea and great result!

  • @Anthromod
    @Anthromod 3 роки тому +13

    Have you tried applying a solution of water and salt to the surface first? If you let it dry you might have a salt layer that maps exactly to the original surface and you might not get the graininess from the powder only method.

    • @jeffking3693
      @jeffking3693 3 роки тому +1

      Wow that is a good idea

    • @philohan95
      @philohan95 3 роки тому

      But then you'd have to grind it to a powder all over again, no?

    • @Anthromod
      @Anthromod 3 роки тому +1

      @@philohan95 You'd probably use water to remove the layer and so it will depend on if and how you try to get the salt from the water. Maybe you don't even need to paint it with a salt solution, and could instead damp the surface and put it into the salt.

    • @jeffking3693
      @jeffking3693 3 роки тому +1

      @@philohan95 he's referring to a preprocess, in that you dip or paint the part with a concentrated saltwater solution, then allow it to dry completely before putting it into the dry salt.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +2

      I'm going to do the method again but with a non-transparent filament, because personally I think that the grainy surface is much more pleasant than the typical fdm surface, but I don't think it comes across well on camera. When I get round to it l'll post some high res pictures of the surfaces I get (including the surface details, there's some nicks and blemishes here and there that don't come across well in an out of focus video of my hand).

  • @snelinternet4654
    @snelinternet4654 3 роки тому +9

    It looks cool!
    @CNC Kitchen, TEST IT! :)

  • @ivanadiego6067
    @ivanadiego6067 Рік тому +1

    I was thinking about filling some parts that need to be very strong and water tight with polyester resin, but after seeing this I will definitely give this a trye! the dimensional accuracy seems to be pretty good.

  • @ON8AD
    @ON8AD 3 роки тому +1

    Great technique.. will try this!

  • @AlexJoneses
    @AlexJoneses 3 роки тому +11

    This man over here really just trynna create uproar in the fdm industry

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +1

      It's been static for too long ;)

    • @AlexJoneses
      @AlexJoneses 3 роки тому

      free spirit 1 I've been throwing parts in to Stratasys baths for too long. It is now TIME FOR SALT

  • @teresashinkansen9402
    @teresashinkansen9402 3 роки тому +4

    Im so curious about how much bar can hold the vessel. Ill say more than 10 bar.

  • @Festivejelly
    @Festivejelly 3 роки тому

    Wonderful technique. I shall def try this.

  • @Dazero
    @Dazero 3 роки тому

    Really impressive ! Awesome idea and great work !

  • @GoatZilla
    @GoatZilla 3 роки тому +27

    I'm somewhat curious how transparent you can make a part like this with some polishing.

    • @afurryferret
      @afurryferret 3 роки тому +2

      Probably much more transparent than you could get a normal fdm print.

    • @janegerrard1073
      @janegerrard1073 3 роки тому +4

      PETG sheets and rods are totally clear, almost like acrylic but semi-felxible and far more durable. A print could be the same if there are no voids. It's what product display stands are typically made of.

    • @UNSCPILOT
      @UNSCPILOT 3 роки тому +2

      There are probably still a lot of air bubbles even in a 100% infil part so it may not be *perfectly* clear but chances are it could be pretty good

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +7

      I just did a run where some of the faces were taped with kapton tape. The answer is 'very'.
      Lots of bubble inclusions though. Hard to avoid.
      I also polished the part (where easily accessible, is transparent enough, but I should have baked it longer)
      Also in the parts packed with kapton I embedded some transparencies printed with a laser printer. They look REALLY good, especially when closer to the surface and not obscured by the bubbles.

    • @laurentprodz
      @laurentprodz 3 роки тому +1

      @@free_spirit1 you could try using a form of clear laquer (like nail polish) to create a smooth surface without having to polish so much.

  • @davidnaisuler5743
    @davidnaisuler5743 3 роки тому +30

    Try burying a thermocouple next to the part, you might be surprised to find out what the temperature actually is in there.

    • @4.0.4
      @4.0.4 3 роки тому

      Ok I'm curious, the temperature will be drastically lower? It still has to be at the melting point of PETG right?

    • @davidnaisuler5743
      @davidnaisuler5743 3 роки тому +3

      Chrysippus it will get to temp, eventually. Thermal lag is the issue. Measuring the sand box on the surface won't tell me what temp the interior is. Either it never gets there, or it is there for longer than necc. I am frankly not quite sure if this is an annealing process or a sintering process or some combination of the two, but if I wanted either then I would defenitely need data from the interior of the body of the "mold" as it were to be able to replicate finished properties.

    • @Luis.F3
      @Luis.F3 3 роки тому +1

      And also try more longerr bake time, so that everything in the oven reaches a thermal equilibrium and remelt well.

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +1

      Thermocouples are in the mail. Only had a lot of T types lying around from work, no K, so gotta wait.

    • @davidnaisuler5743
      @davidnaisuler5743 3 роки тому

      @@Luis.F3 You don't have to "try a longer time" if you use thermocouples because you will know exactly when you have hit t-glass, if your thermocouple is a few cm from the part surface you are close enough. Center of the "mold block" will do just as well.

  • @d0iu
    @d0iu 3 роки тому

    Wow! This is actually clever. Thanks for sharing!

  • @yitspaerl7255
    @yitspaerl7255 3 роки тому

    Very intelligent approach! I'l definitly give it a try.

  • @emindemir9867
    @emindemir9867 3 роки тому +3

    What does she sing back? Hears very nice.

  • @xpyder
    @xpyder 3 роки тому +3

    I was watching CNC Kitchen's video and I had a thought:
    What if you were to precipitate the salt onto the part from water (or another carrier liquid) using a few hypersaturation -> cooling cycles?
    I wonder if you could get the shell strong enough to retain form when remelting the part, but not have to worry about grain size (and likewise don't have to grind the salt before hand)

    • @DIYToPen
      @DIYToPen Рік тому

      Did you test this?

  • @181charlie
    @181charlie 3 роки тому

    Dude, that is ingenious! I can't wait to try it.

  • @RinksRides
    @RinksRides 3 роки тому +1

    Great work! Amazing. Recently CNC Kitchen tried to do this but with plaster of paris, results were not good. This method is KING!

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +1

      It works really well with PETG. Other resins I don't know. The PLA did warp, but I think doing the closed tub method might help. Will release updates in the future.

  • @mirko.jankovic
    @mirko.jankovic 3 роки тому +21

    it would be interesting to test the strength.

    • @user-cr4sc1ht9t
      @user-cr4sc1ht9t 3 роки тому +2

      Density gradient too. Promising

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +22

      I look forward to CNC kitchen's video ;)

    • @drumbum7999
      @drumbum7999 3 роки тому +3

      @@free_spirit1 I can almost hear his printers whirring from my house

  • @athosseventysix
    @athosseventysix 3 роки тому +42

    So how many bars did the small vessel handle?

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому +10

      Stay tuned ;)

    • @L29Ah
      @L29Ah 3 роки тому

      i vote for 40atm

    • @SweetnLulz
      @SweetnLulz 3 роки тому

      My guess is 5 bar. Or around there.

    • @L29Ah
      @L29Ah 3 роки тому +1

      @@SweetnLulz hey, even a cheapo 2L PET lemonade bottle handles 10.

    • @SweetnLulz
      @SweetnLulz 3 роки тому +1

      @@L29Ah Huh. I wasn't aware. Wait, unless you're talking about the forming process. Aren't those blown up in a form?

  • @williamoldham2204
    @williamoldham2204 3 роки тому +1

    really enjoyed your clever and informative video, so I tried it out today on a PLA print of the "crushed coffee cup" model... BTW I used swimming pool salt, as it is already fairly fine in texture (saves having to use the coffee grinder). Tomorrow I will see how successful the cup is with coffee in it... many thanks for your contribution to 3D printing! glenn

    • @knight2255
      @knight2255 2 роки тому

      Is it worth doing with PLA prints?

  • @andyhelipilot3528
    @andyhelipilot3528 3 роки тому +1

    Amazing work. Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. Would be interested in other experiments you have tried, even failed ones to understand the logic and chemistry behind it. Essentially, you are reheating the part to it's molten state, and allowing it to cool in a mold made of ground salt. Awesome dude. 😎

    • @free_spirit1
      @free_spirit1  3 роки тому

      The PLA is a failed one, as it didn't melt. It did deform but it did bow and not become watertight.
      (As for the PETG, I haven't had any failures at all. The only thing that happens is that sometimes you unbury the parts and they are not yet molten or have some parts that didn't get melted at all).

  • @henmich
    @henmich 3 роки тому +33

    How the Hell did you come up with this??? 50 Points to Gryffindor!

    • @TheSimpShow
      @TheSimpShow 3 роки тому +1

      That's just an embarrassment to everyone here. Just stop.

    • @henmich
      @henmich 3 роки тому +5

      @@TheSimpShow You're the embarrassment to everyone here Simp! HAHAHAHA...

    • @TheSimpShow
      @TheSimpShow 3 роки тому +1

      @@henmich I'm not the grown adult clinging to a 20 year old franchise. What a disgrace.

    • @henmich
      @henmich 3 роки тому +2

      @@TheSimpShow Clinging? What a troll. At least I'm not bragging about being a simp! Pussy.. go give your money away... and I just looked at your channel... that's big talk for someone creating videos about Ghostbusters... talk about clinging to a franchise...

    • @henmich
      @henmich 3 роки тому +1

      @@TheSimpShow Yeah, you really "Schooled me from your mother's basement... Glad to exceed your expectations. No go get a juice box and shut the fuck up.

  • @warpspeed9877
    @warpspeed9877 3 роки тому +3

    "Riders on the storm" in the background...

  • @BOTmaster15
    @BOTmaster15 3 роки тому

    Thank you
    I tried your metod with grinded salt and ohnestly it works great.
    You could even go for seethrough lens with enough polish.

  • @davepartlow6430
    @davepartlow6430 3 роки тому

    Very nice. Thanks for sharing. I've been looking for a way to make prints stronger and this looks like the trick.

  • @Tutorius
    @Tutorius 3 роки тому +3

    Have you tested if the annealed parts can stand higher temperatures afte this baking?

  • @drumbum7999
    @drumbum7999 3 роки тому +15

    Somebody ACTUALLY had enough of a miserable life to thumbs this down?!

    • @ddegn
      @ddegn 3 роки тому +4

      They didn't want to be reminded they were salty.

    • @scythelord
      @scythelord 3 роки тому +4

      Today is the day you learn that there are literal upvote bots on youtube that people pay to use in order to promote their channel. In order for these bots to not get flagged by youtube and banned, they trawl random youtube videos and randomly apply up or down votes to mimic a real viewer and potentially even comment. There are a LOT of them out there and they make up the majority of downvotes. UA-cam however is too large for them to manually review downvotes on videos that logically would not get downvotes, otherwise they would have a rather reliable means to eliminate potential bots.

    • @lyteyearz5810
      @lyteyearz5810 3 роки тому

      Yup!

  • @marthinus.x
    @marthinus.x 3 роки тому

    Wonderful! Thank you for sharing this!

  • @brightnovastar
    @brightnovastar 3 роки тому

    Loving this. More experiments 🧪 please.

  • @itravelnaut
    @itravelnaut 3 роки тому +10

    anybody looking for salt in the states, search for 50lb bags of flour salt - should be under 50$ shipped

    • @itravelnaut
      @itravelnaut 3 роки тому

      @tyvek05 grinding salt is slow and time consuming

  • @UNSCPILOT
    @UNSCPILOT 3 роки тому

    I adore printing PETG to spite its challenges, I have got to try this!

  • @seriousCADninja
    @seriousCADninja 3 роки тому +2

    Oh yea baby! Thing are getting interesting! This totally look like a viable post processing method!

  • @EZY3DLAB
    @EZY3DLAB 3 роки тому +1

    I might try this soon, thank you for sharing!

  • @andreasz9543
    @andreasz9543 3 роки тому

    these transparent petg parts look super cool

  • @ev-olution8597
    @ev-olution8597 3 роки тому

    Wow! That's a great idea. Thanks for sharing it with us.

  • @jmtx.
    @jmtx. 3 роки тому

    Awesome idea. Salt is cheap and grinding it is simple. Will definitely be trying this on a BluPrint mug with 100% infill to hopefully make it watertight.

  • @AdnanASyukri
    @AdnanASyukri 3 роки тому

    Wow this is very nice method! Thanks for sharing!

  • @daveking4229
    @daveking4229 3 роки тому

    Another thumbs up! That is a good trick to have when you need more than what the printer can do!!

  • @cronx1337
    @cronx1337 2 роки тому

    This is the kind of stuff that belongs on YT. Thank you.

  • @SumeragiMinami
    @SumeragiMinami 8 місяців тому

    Hot damn! This is genius. Thank you for sharing this technique.

  • @rodsnyder6020
    @rodsnyder6020 3 роки тому +2

    Very cool idea mate! The drying side effect of the salt is very welcome for PETG to counter Hydrolysis.

    • @notsonominal
      @notsonominal 3 роки тому

      right up to the point where he rinse the part in water to disolve embedded salt?

    • @rodsnyder6020
      @rodsnyder6020 3 роки тому

      @@notsonominal that is an optional step. a brush might work as well.

    • @notsonominal
      @notsonominal 3 роки тому

      @@rodsnyder6020 caption said "water" not "optional water" and in his other comments he says he tried sand but switched to salt because sand got stuck and salt dissolves in water..