Please August. Make sure destiny reads this comment as it is a very good counterpoint that he should have brought up but didn't. At around 19:00 and before, they were talking about how some conservatives want transpeople to commit su!cide. Dr K said something stupid like: "the conservative bills being passed through are done so to harm transpeople, but on my side (lefties) our argument in favor of transwomen in sports is not done with the intent to harm transpeople". The easy rubttle is this: "No shit. Everyone's side thinks that what they are doing is positive. Conservatives don't push these anti trans bills because they are evil and want to hurt transpeople, they do it because they believe that something like allowing trans teens to get on HRT before 18 IS harmful to those teens. So their motivation is also to help transpeople even though you (Dr K) disagree with the methods they want to implement to help transpeople." The difference is that Dr K can't empathize with the conservatives, she just thinks they are evil n@zis. It has driven me crazy so far that destiny hasn't brought this up.
Destiny is playing devils advocate so good. I really feel strongly about allowing trans people into their respective categories. But I really have no idea how to implement policies and I think it’s important to see both sides from someone who doesn’t just hate trans people
Destiny had the kid gloves on in this one. The point about transgender athletes not being a problem because they’re so few of them is such an easy point to shoot down. It doesn’t matter how many trans athletes there are, it only takes a single individual to hold a record and almost every sport has some kind of world record at every tier of the sport. Case in point Lia Thomas now holds the 500m female Ivy League swim speed record.
listening to 10 people who have never been outside or done any sports discuss technique vs power in sports is just absolutely mind melting, I can't do it
Don't forget that they're discussing whether women's sports should continue to exist, and whether trans-women pose a threat to women's sports... Without a single fucking cis-woman in the call...
Haha so true. Even studies in sports science shows a women’s performance is hugely dependent on what day she is in her cycle. I think Stephanie buttermore did a good UA-cam video explaining all the science about it. It’s actually super interesting. Which honestly might have to do with why most Olympic athletes lose their period, they actually benefit from it, even thought it’s clearly not healthy lol!
@@caitlinharper1633 athletes may miss their period for similar reasons to why some people with anorexia miss their period. if your BMI is so low that your body thinks you are starving, it may skip your next period to conserve energy. athletes sometimes work themselves to very low bmi for competition which might cause a missed period.
@@rynethorup5690 lying is the key word hear. Which was happening throughout, like that other person trying to bring up examples of trans men dominating in sports, when it was clearly just lies. A lot of the people on this panel are either crazy, really not very bright, or are intentionally not addressing the issue honestly, or it's a combination, either way they are not actually benefiting anyone, and certainly in the long run are only going to make this worse for both women and trans people. Nothing was ever solved by people approaching an issue dishonestly or without intelligence or wisdom.
Non-athletes completely out of their realm... I've played basketball and done combat sports from youth to adulthood... Women's sports will die if they are not segregated.
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u lol same, i could dunk by the time i was 15 and could do crazy shit like windmills by the time i was 17, and in pretty sure there have been like 10 women ever who’ve ever dunked and they could barely do it while being 6’8” the difference in performance is insane
As a woman with endometriosis and ovarian cysts I was is extreme pain during my period and I have had friends that have had iron injections and transfusions due to heavy blood loss during their periods. It is mind blowing to see men with no fucking idea debating about women's periods. It would be like a bunch of women debating that being kicked in the balls should have no effect on men's athletic ability.
I have a girlfriend that gets extremely lethargic and a lot of pain when she's on her period. We work out togheter but some days she just can't. I laughing in anger at that little boy, has he even ever talked to a woman?
On abortion: "Why are all these male politicians making decisions about women's bodies" On women's sports: (a panel of men) "I WANT TO GET RID OF WOMENS SPACES IN SPORTS"
I'm just here for the shitshow, not for a long boring conversation about topics I don't really care about as much as I maybe should. I'm more interested in Destiny's thought process around topics vs the topics themselves.
It's mostly a bunch of males arguing that menstruation doesn't impact females' performance or wellbeing. Which is utterly laughable, as anyone who's lived with a female can tell you.
Woman here! Weird how quick they were to dismiss Destiny talking about women getting iron deficiency anemia as a consequence of menstruation. I had this happen. It's a pretty common thing. There are lots of complications associated with menstruation.
I was out with my friend, she passed out and we both learned that fact on that day. And when I went through EMT school they did tell us that yes men and women will have different diseases affect them in higher probabilities same as for genetics for race, like destiny said, sickle cell anemia affects Africans more than latino or asian.
True story: when I fainted I had just gotten to a festival with friends. They asked me to hold their drinks so they could use the portapotty. As a younger woman I wasn't a fan of drinking and actually had my friends try to playfully peer pressure me into it several times. Welp, I fainted while holding their drinks so I spent the rest of the day being made fun of. 😂😂😂 Good times.
Women being iron deficient is very common and it actually isn't as easy as taking a few pills to correct it. Women also have way more thyroid issues, it's linked to this and it affects how much iron gets absorbed into the blood and muscles. Bio men don't have this.
Holy shit I’ve never been more infuriated in my entire life. I am a woman collegiate athlete who plays softball who also plays professionally overseas. I’ve played against trans women during my travel ball years and I can attest to the advantages they have. I miss a spot, I could quite literally die. I’ve been hit by liners up the middle more times than I can count, I’ve been hit in the face and chest and I’ve recovered. But those were 70-78 mph exit speeds from women. A trans women gets up in the box and I could very well miss a spot and take a 90 mile an hour exit velo to the teeth 35 feet from the plate and fucking die. Pitching to a trans woman would be suicide. That’s why 95% of the time WE INTENTIONALLY WALK THEM SO OUR PLAYERS DONT GET HURT. In my opinion, just give them their own category and call it a day. And also for the whole period thing, women tend to schedule workout rest days when their periods start. Because men don’t understand that when a woman gets her period, not only is there just bleeding- your joints loosen and relax and period week is when most injuries tend to happen. And also that fuckhead in the left hand corner that believes women only bleed like three tablespoons worth of blood is a dumbass.
The thing I haven't heard these people talk about are sports scholarships. Under systems they think are the solution, they'd be destroying any women's sports scholarships since there would be no women on sports teams. Nevermind how it would be ridiculous to try and track some level of ELO across someone's entire life to determine what they'd be allowed to compete in.
the problem with giving them their own category an calling it a day, is no one will watch. And they know that. They want to be seen, so they are going to rip down womens sports to make sure they are seen. The guy with Dr in his name just said he doesn't care about the rest of the planet. 'terfs can shove it' I think everyone on the planet should hear him speak. Nothing will destroy all this nonsense quicker than letting them talk.
"you can train when you're on your period. Besides, top female athletes lose their period." Omg, lol. The level of cringe in this conversation. Who in this chat knows anything at all about periods? Destiny seems to be the only person who has been in the vicinity of period blood.
I dunno if it's just me but I feel like people on opposite sides of the political Isle are kinda similar in a sense that they are staunchly ideological and lack experience. On one side, you have incels who are very misogynistic and on the other end we have incels that are angry at conservatives so they plant themselves in the Liberal camp. I think we are seeing a bit of that on display here. These men clearly have not spoken to many real women except in their echo Chambers, they don't know what the real world is like so they have dogshit takes but they are extremely ideologically motivated by their disdain for the right even though they're not that different.
@@noahfletcher3019 For me, this discussion should be about "people who have undergone male puberty.". Because in my opinion the problem is not with trans women. I doubt anyone would have a problem with a trans woman who was on puberty blockers at a young age and then transitioned without going through male puberty. I'm even open to the idea that maybe we will just have to accept that trans women have been delt a shit hand in most areas of their life and having a leg up in women's sports is the one advantage they have coming their way. But to pretend that training for years with the free test levels of a teenage boy is not going to give long-term performance advantages is just insulting. Arguing that if an athlete goes on HRT for a year, they immediately lose any edge that years of male hormones may have given them is disingenuous or willfully ignorant.
@@harlanhardway5955 no. no. no. this is an argument in favor of putting little boys on chemically sterilizing drugs because "what if 'she' wants to compete with the girls when 'she's' older :(((" no men in womens sports. women are not men with a handicap.
@@harlanhardway5955 bad take Men should not be in women's sports regardless of transitioning stage There's more to being a man than just testosterone levels
Gotta give it up for prime. Hosting a panel that heavily revovles around cis womens place in sports without having a single panelist be a cis woman is a brilliant move. Good job avoiding bringing on people who would be helpful in revealing the truth about cis womens experience with periods and how that, and other things, affect their training differently then cis mens.
Also bringing in a bunch of terminally online people to talk about the highest echelons of athletic ability. A really bold move. I think this is some kind of post modern panel, where all the people with relevant knowledge might be intentionally not there to make a statement or something. But it's absolutely painful hearing absurd shit like "You barely lose any blood on your period, also after like 5 months you lose all male advantage you had" followed by "Also after 2 years you lose all male advantage you had", further followed by "You still show an advantage up to 4 years later" followed by "Yeah, that's correct". Half the panel think they know stuff they don't even know. They don't know that periods absolutely shut down some women, especially physically, for some time. They don't even know how much of an advantage you maintain, yet are trying to argue it's below or above some arbitrary line. "Actually Lia Thompson was ok to compete because the ruling body said so. :)" "Actually FUCK the ruling body they said Caster Semenya couldn't compete" "Lia thompson was FIRST (in her class) at swimming, I don't see why transitioning to being FIRST (in female nationals) is such a big deal, both FIRST!!" Absolutely wacky. Because hitting times that were 500th in mens but 1st in womens isn't sus at all.
@@noobslayer1196 It definitely helps to know what a period is like before making definitive, prescriptive claims about them. At least from a female family member or something. I mean, they're talking about how little blood you lose in a period and how little it affects women when both of those are easily debunked by just LOOKING at period products. So sure, being a woman doesn't make you innately more knowledgable about it than men, but it sure makes you more knowledgable than people who don't even know how to read period products. Same goes for the sporting thing and many of them clearly not having any idea about what training is actually like. Sure, you don't need to be an olympian to understand all the intricacies of training, but you sure need to know more than most of these people do. Just about any physio could 10x better than "I know what training is like because I play disc golf and men do power and women do finesse".
@@noobslayer1196 So good for you. Let me know when you're on a panel talking about something you're informed about and I'll keep an eye out for it. In the meantime I'll continue to find it annoying when morons go on panels to talk about things they have no experience or knowledge in.
Don't call them cis women, that is a made-up word and a slur that is intended to denormalize womanhood. Call them what they are, normal women. Or real women if you take issue with normal women.
to someone looking outside in at this group, these people are completely insane. it's honestly crazy that people are so stuck in a bubble that they think this theyre right lol.
The thing that always gets me about these people, is that they are so completely eclipsed by their own notion of how important it is to protect the feelings of Trans people that it completely blinds them to the fact that they are just throwing women under the bus. They are effectively putting the feelings of trans people above the feelings of women.
@zachb.6606 a good saying, and good song, sometimes "it's cruel to be kind". It's not to say to be mean, but is to say that you can do more harm by avoiding doing what is necessary or in attempts to spare them from hurt, reality, etc. Anyways, I basically just said what ypu said, in a different way. Well said, friend.
No, they are putting the feelings of males above the rights, safety, interests and dignity of females. These people don’t give a sh*t about transmen either. This is 100% a male’s rights movement.
For real. Quite frankly, I don't really want to hear what trans women and men have to say about this, just based on how this panel fucking went down. The people this most affects are cis women, especially athletic cis women. The people who should be here should be mostly women, some trans women, and maybe 1-2 men. Men can have an opinion, obviously, but for anything to ever get anywhere is for there to be more cis women here.
I think it also speaks to something about how competitive men are in sports. You don't ever hear anyone complaining about Yao Ming, Shaq, or even someone extremely big in wrestling. It's seen as a challenge. I think that's why in men's sports nothing "unfair" is ever talked about besides steroids or some other artificial enhancing drug. The men with opinions on women's sports mostly just say something with the motive of protecting women or they simply don't care about women's sports.
fucking based as shit. This group would lose their mind in any other scenario talking about certain minorities without including the ones you're talking about. The whole panel was filled with "I think, or I assume what cis women dont like or the problem cis women have is......" no one thought hey, do you think we should find at least 1 cis women as one of the 20 people we got for this panel. I know theres not a lot of cis women out there but i bet you could find someone
Might be a controversial statement. But I wish there had been a woman on this debate that could’ve actually spoke to the menstruation/training question.
lol I was thinking during that whole segment like bring me in there and ill tell them my experiences with my period. how it keeps me in bed for days, how I miss work because of it, how out of control my hormones get, or how the cramps and bloat knock you right off your feet and will come out of nowhere. These men have no idea about women or their bodies and how they function. It was super frustrating to watch.
I mean some random woman wouldn't be able to speak on that. You'd need a highly trained athlete whose body fat percentage was extremely low. Body fat is a source of estrogen, so the reduced fat in extremely lean women can potentially compound with other biological factors to cause temporarily irregularities or cessation in menstruation.
@@Therhyrhy123 They don't seem to understand that menstruation varies drastically between individuals. One woman may be barely affected and another could lose enough blood to be considered a minor medical emergency (of course that's unusual).
@@MrShagification I think Destiny’s point stands. Menstruation and hormones are something that a MTF athlete doesn’t have to deal with, and that definitely confers an advantage. The argument that three years of estrogen and HRT therapy can erase the advantage of 10-15 years of growth stimulated by male hormones is felonious. Tired of trans claiming science is on there side when studies are clearly inconclusive. There’s just too many variable to definitively declare MTF trans athletes have NO advantage.
God I hate prime's panels. A brutal combination of lack of structure and double the amount of people that should be in a conversation and overwhelming numbers on one side of the issue. The result: 13 people talking at the same time in an indecipherable bubble of nonsense, followed by an awkward 3 second silence. One person then rambles off 6 points that will never be revisited, an insult gets thrown, and repeat.
Panels are already bad and Prime is the worst moderator. It really shows you how no one wants to moderator, maybe there's no money to be made in it, or whatever, but Destiny was actually unironically good as moderator (when he wasnt trolling). But I dont care if Anderson Cooper himself hops on the stream to moderate, anything more than 1 v 1 is a shit show anyway
I love the very stupid arguments that these people make about those opposed to trans participation being hypocrites because they obviously don't attend women's sporting events. This is like one of those things that is probably true but it is completely misleading. I don't attend high school football games that often either but I used to go watch when I was younger. I also went to a whole bunch of field hockey, volleyball and cheerleading events when I had a connection to the participants. I watched girlfriends and girls that were just friends when they had big games etc. If I went now, I should be put on some kind of watch list. But as a personal belief, I still think high school and college sports are incredibly important for kids/young adults and this argument that we should restructure the entire system in order to pander to a few dozen shameless, attention-whores is baffling. It is kind of disappointing to look back on this tom-fukery and see how much damage it has done to the left. I have never seen a stronger commitment to self-sabotage in my life.
I love lefties in trans arguements. It's just beautiful watching them flip on everything they ever said. Who could've imagined we'd get a room full of them arguing that periods aren't a big deal at all
Honestly the period thing was so stupid and just wrong. Women don't bleed 3 table spoons in a day, let alone the average week of torture. And for 100% certain that cramps and the various symptoms that come with periods effect performance
@@SadEyes1412 Yea and honestly I would say even the mildest cases with less to no pain still have to deal with bleeding. Losing cups or even "spoons" worth of blood for days doesn't have NO effects especially when stressing your body with rigorous physical activity
that one was so bad. i've seen lefties argue that women should be allotted time off of work/school bc their periods can be so bad, and i agreed with them! i couldnt imagine any of these ppl engaging with that conversation to support cis women in the workplace, if your period doesnt actually make you nauseous or give you so much pain that youre lightheaded all day what could you possibly need a break for?
To be honest, Destiny had the most accurate take about it. The guy yelling that periods make no difference in women's performance or training was so beyond clueless, cringe, and (as much as I hate the overuse of the word) misogynistic.
I’m not an athlete (by ANY means) but my period is interruptive in my day-to-day life. There are a number of very common conditions like endometriosis and ovarian cysts that can impact issues like pain, bleeding, predictability… My endometriosis results in pretty heavy blood loss each month and as a result I’m chronically anemic. I’m currently on prescription iron supplements (as other were not effective) and currently am trying an IUD with the sole intention of stopping my period so my body can actually have a period of recovery. I know that many female athletes have their periods cease due to their training and conditioning. For those that don’t, I wonder how issues like bloating would impact elements like pre-match weigh-ins. I would actually love hearing a specialist speak on the intersections between menstruation and athleticism…
as a former female athlete, i was honestly surprised to see what manner of shlubby dude was still able to do 5 pull ups. I have never done one, and 3rd grade boys and un active husky or weaker men can manage a couple at least. The upper body strength difference is wild. My husband and I are the same height and weight, and even half drunk play fighting, he can take me down with like no effort. i don't think guys realize just how strong in comparison they really are bc most men don't go around fighting women full on and testing their strength but its a no brainer if you think about it for 2 seconds.
Exactly, I'm 30 years old, if I go without doing pull ups for a month, I can knock out at least 3 back to back and within 48 hours of doing these maybe 5 times, I can return to the gym and knock out 5 within each set. The way the average man builds muscle is drastically different
Im a lifelong lefty who will be voting right for the first time in the 15 years ive been able to vote if republicans run a moderate. Tired of the left shitting on women.
1:38:54 "lung capacity is only important in high endurance sports" She should be kicked out of the debate. That is either bad faith or that person is so unknowledgeable that they should not slow the debate down with nonsense.
The same with rockclimbing or gymnastics.... Men smoke women. Anyone can watch what men do in Women Gymnastics. They as flexible as women & jump higher & do way more extreme stuff. Maybe in agility women are close to men, but still men dominate.
Oxygen intake seems like the one thing thats vital in every possible physical activity imaginable. Like men intake around 15-30% more oxygen than women. The more oxygen you intake, the less of your own energy storage you have to burn
@@sam1fi683 this immediately made me think back to a Fear Factor final round where the contestants basically just had to hold their breath under water for as long as they could, and from what I recall it was 1 man vs 3 women. He won by a landslide. Now that don’t sit right with me knowing this lung capacity fact lol
The sheer number of non-athletes on this panel having such strong opinions about sports is incredible. And no, disc golf does not count just like chess doesn't count.
@Alexander Ceja ELO was the original way to rate grandmaster chess players. Many ratings systems developed mirror it to an extent. Disc golf has a similarish system although it is calculated quite a bit different. In disc golf, a given course is rated as 1000 based on the average score of the top 100 scores. There are no women that ever score above 1000 essentially. That is to say, the top woman athlete doesn’t exceed the average of the top 100 male athletes.
Someone who never woke up to a bed that looked like a murder scene, who never saw a poor high school girl who miscalculated and wore white pants, someone who never saw a woman go through half a package of pads in 3 days, or who never met someone who had a 7 day heavy period.
As a high-performance athlete myself, these people who are not high-level athletes are grossly underqualified to discuss this issue. Claiming that a 120-pound man and 120-pound woman will be equal in running is incredibly wrong. At the elite level, on the most conservative estimate, professional male runners are 8% faster than females, and upwards of 15-20% on the high end. GET ATHLETES ON THESE PANELS. (not disc golfers)
They’re wrong on running and other athletic competitions but they lean on those because it’s an easier argument to make than any sport where there is offense/defense
If trans women in sports are incredibly rare, wouldn't it seem extremely fucking weird to find 3 rank 1 finishers in women sports be trans? Wouldn't that be extremely unlikely if they in fact didn't have a massive advantage over sis women? Im guessing that this person is also an athlete with all the mental gymnastics she is going through to justify this.
They don't give a shit, trans people dominating cis women is "affirming" for them so it isn't just ok, it's great, they've turned coddling into a social movement.
Yeah, great point. If being trans is very rare, and being a trans athlete is very rare, that's "very, very rare"? And then finding one of those very, very rare individuals that's going to rank above the rest should be very, very, very rare?
Just to add to this. They make the argument not all sports are based on strength or mass. Curling, shooting to name a couple Olympic sports. IF that is the case then trans-men should have no issue still competing against regular men. They wouldn't need to compete against women if strength etc didn't matter.
There are less Olympic gold medalists than there are billionaires in the world. The fact that we have 5+ Olympic qualifying transwomen at all is an insane statistical anomaly. It's more insane than Dream's minecraft speedrun being legitimately a coincidence. Transwomen only make up .02% of the population (of America too holy shit) There are 33 times as many people who are missing entire limbs than there are transgenders. 33 to 1. When was the last time you've seen a person with 1 arm or 1 leg irl? When was the last time you've seen a transwoman in real life? Now when was the last time you've ever seen a billionaire in person? The numbers don't make sense.
Your premise isnt flawed, but it doesn't necessarily make it a matter of fact for your conclusion. Also, are we talking at the highschool, college or professional level? Is this with or without hormone therapy? Their is a skill gap for each category, and level of therapy.
“I don’t know where you are getting this evidence that trans women have this “biological advantage” after 3 years Destiny” *Goes from 400th place to 1st place*
This whole debate is just mind boggling. Their whole argument against Destiny can boil down: 1. We're liberals/progressives so whatever we do it's for the benefit of trans people (even if it harms more people including trans people) 2. None of them looks remotely close to someone capable of doing at least 10 push ups and we're going to talk like we know the kinds of hurdles athletes, let alone women athletes need to go through.
They also don't believe in equal rights, but believe in more civil rights for the "victim/oppressed" than for "women/oppressor", which are arbitrary labels. It's one thing to oppose discrimination against trans people. It's another thing to grant one group more civil rights at the expense of another, and claim it's "justice". That's the difference between Marxist "Equity" plans instead of Democratic "Equality". An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth doesn't make things equal, just blind and toothless.
They spend the first 30 minutes calling conservatives "transphobes". How can you even be transphobic when transgenders are an imaginary concept that the left created.
Honestly I'm 21 minutes in and they sound like they never have hung around conservatives They pretending the left don't have whole sub sections that don't like trans people
"Women are just going to use more finesse and men will use more power" So, we've come all this way just to come back around to sexist gender essentialism 101. Great job panel, you nailed it.
@@dbz287 As we all know, transitioning is basically a character respec where you get to spend all those skill points you had as a male in strength and endurance over to dex and intelligence now you're a female. Real pros know how to time transitions to optimize exp gain in each stage of life.
@@musclenugget92 i rock climb pretty regularly, leaping has no finesse lol its definitely an easy shortcut, just have to have iron fingers but that aside it is still a gaslight, if men didnt have access to shortcuts theyd do the hard work the same as women anyway
It’s almost like these conversations are pointless when most the people on the panel can’t have a good faith argument and argue from delusion. It’s insanity.
Or most of them never played a sport in their life this is by far one of the dumbest arguments I've ever listened to it everyone in the comment section has become 45 points dumber because of it
I mean the whole "conservatives want to suicide the trans" strawman in the beginning was a pretty good indicator of the trash fire this discussion would be
@@Kurotama11they are though.. you watched it, as did many others, which brings eyeballs to each persons respective UA-cam channels (the number of eyeballs will be less for some than others naturally, but still more than their channel would have garnered without this exposure).
Listening to these males try to argue that menstruation doesn't impact females' physical performance & training capacity is intellectually painful. Many of us actually become ANEMIC during that time. Furthermore, all things being equal, being born male confers tremendous advantages in physical competition - stronger, thicker bones, larger skeletal structure, higher muscle mass, lower body fat, bigger lung capacity, straight hips, straight arms (i.e., no carrying arch which females evolved to carry babies), bigger feet & hands, longer reach, no menstruation, etc. These guys should just be honest & say they want to eliminate sports for females & female-only spaces in favor of allowing males. Anyone who works in medicine can tell you that sex is determined at conception & is verifiable by a test at any point, even after yr demise & burial. To pretend that this isn't true, & doesn't have dramatic consequences for those born female, is like the ultimate gaslighting 🤣
I dont think they want to do that, in all likelihood they have just A. never played or watched a sport for any real time so don't actually know what the differences between men and women look like B. they are just terminally online lefties that will just double down on litterally anything they see as an argument for thier side c. all of the above.
This is the left in 2022 what do you expect, these people are so far gone there is no reasoning with them in fact they have declared reason "white supremacy"
The fact that the average hemoglobin for men is 14-17 gm/dl and for women 12-15 gm/dl or that more women are on iron pills due to iron def. anemia because of menstruation or that if a woman is seen with a low hemoglobin level, it is no where as alarming as a male because of menstrual cycles ....but yea, sure women just lose 2 or 3 ml of blood and call it a day. smdh
"Steven... come on..." the panel Actually I don't know if I can watch this one, they're incredibly immature and the people that think everything they say is an "own" really makes my balls recede from cringe in to my chest cavity.
According to them, you are now able to compete against women in the Olympics. Goodluck bro. This was their plan all along. Create more femboys to dominate women in the Olympics. Based
Dang, that’s really up in there, destiny is right though how are you supposed to have a conversation with these lunatics? I’m on the right but I sympathize with issues related to treatment of people but geez you aren’t going to win people over with that rhetoric.
@@tezwah5651 Female representation is relevant for the same reason that representation of athletes would be relevant. A dialog on the subject should incorporate the relevant facts and opinions. There is a likelihood that they will bring up considerations that may be overlooked, or weigh considerations differently, or just have different opinions than the contrasting category. That's not the same thing as saying only female or athlete perspectives are valid.
Destiny has one main problem when engaging in these conversations. He gives far to much credit with the assumption that the other panel guests have the desire or the intellectual capacity to have a nuanced conversation. He tries to have an actual discussion and is met with ideological rambling and glassy eyed smugness. A productive conversation under these circumstances is almost impossible, its like trying to explain how to drive a car to a glass bottle.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. I fear for the day that Destiny gets too comfortable with his stances and stops challenging them. He's searching hard for any hole that can be made in his argument, while the nine are trying to obfuscate the obvious holes in their argument. It's why I love Destiny.
You are giving too much credit to the liberals in this conversation as well. Who was the one that tried to make the point that women can "breach" male dominated sports by citing tennis, FUCKING TENNIS.
Back as a freshmen in high school, I regularly beat a girl two years older than me who was ranked in the top 100 in the nation in basketball. She literally set records. I hadn't even finished puberty, these guys are completely clueless.
Holy shit a 14 year old is more in touch with reality than many of these guys… I feel like this says a lot. I’m not even sure where to start but it says a lot
was she the only girl in the game or was it 5 boys vs 5 girls? Were any of the other players also ranked? i get the point your trying to make but i feel like the other 8 players would effect who's team won even if she was a ranked player.
@@marlom7882 basketball is kinda a weird thing to use tho cuz if the girl has a better team than the freshmen, she could beat him, even if the freshmen is better individually. ive been in amateur tournaments where teams with 1 or 2 women have won against teams of all men. because basketball is a team sport and their males were from D1 schools better than all the other teams males (who had no female players), and they knew how to shift defenses etc to compensate for their female players individual disadvantages so they won the whole tournament
>I was poor therefore mom took me to McDonalds therefore there's nothing I could have done to not be fat This has to go to the top most incredibly stupid arguments ever made in a public debate.
The weight trainers at my high school lived off of mcdonalds. They would all go there after school every day and each order like 5 mcchickens 5 mcdoubles and 5 fries per person lmao and they were in crazy shape.
I've listened to a lot of dumb points over my time listening to these panels and numerous other debates, that really was right up there as perhaps the stupidest point ever made.
My fucking cousin ONLY eats McDonald’s he can’t eat anything else and he’s 6 ft 5 and insanely skinny, think scarecrow. So for that person to blame McDonald’s on being fat is incorrect
No, you're not understanding my point, she placed first in her junior elementary neighborhood water slide competition at her summer camp. Obviously you're just a transphobic Republican.😂
Men and women dont compete against eachother in gymnastics and they dont compete on the same boulders in climbing, I cant believe anyone would say something so blatantly false
As a leftie, this panel was hard to watch. Admittedly, 9 people arguing for 1 'side' is always gonna be a shit show. People need to realise that with issues like this, 95% of people don't consider themselves on a side. They just care about what they see as important, reasonable and/or morally correct. Bad look for the left (god I hate grouping myself in with these people).
I’d consider myself a leftist, and I’d agree with you. The problem is that so many lefties take super complex issues like this and try to act like the solution is incredibly simple because they can’t comprehend why someone might disagree, and it ends up diluting the conversation.
then dont group yourself with these people, be independent. This partisan mindset is such a rot on society. Both sides have some very cancerous views and both sides make some points.
I've always been a leftist, regardless of what people who live online and take offensive humor and lukewarm disagreements poorly may believe in my rent-free space in their heads. Welcome to the club.
@@christopherjohnson9167 it's not partisanship, that specifically refers to organised political groups. It's about understanding that all perspectives permeate from ideology. Your apparent view of yourself as an individual 'free from the bounds of ideology' is inherently ideological. This contradiction seems to be lost within modern American philosophy. 'Rationalism' (or whatever you may call it) is just as much an ideology as left and right, just less obviously so. Deference to historical thinkers and philosophies is not always as a result of dogmatic thinking, it can also come from the recognition that others are capable of coming to similar conclusions as you, and interpreting reality as such (perhaps in a more suscint and poetic way than oneself)
I'd throw it right back at them, who wants to watch trans women compete in womens sports? Thats an even rarer thing. Does anyone actually give a shit about trans women winning? Everyone knows its a fraudulent and unfair women and basically approved and sanctioned CHEATING. These leftists make no sense when i can debunk them that fast. Like i don't know one person not a single person in real life that wants to watch a trans women compete with women, zero interest they don't care. The only thing they care about is how unfair it is.
As someone with 15 years of competitive swimming experience, This argument of finesse versus strength is stupid. It’s an equal combination of strength and technique and all of the top performing boys on average are faster than the top-performing girls. I feel bad for trans people, because honestly I don’t know if there actually is a solution. Life isn’t fair, all of the top performers are dealt a perfect hand in the genetic Poker game
Yeah of course there is an solution. But not if people can't think more deep about problems like that. We have to stop the catogerization in merely "man" and "womand" in sports. We need a better metric. Maybe a combination from multiple variables like weight, height,..
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Or women could compete against women, and men could compete against men. Instead of changing our entire culture because it hurts their feelings.
@@ghad311 What culture do you mean exactly? Do you know how this has historically evolved? Do you know why men and woman are segregated, even in games like chess? Or are you one of these guys that think woman are worse in chess than men in general because reading data is hard?
trans women competing against females in sport has been a disaster for trans liberation most of us just want to lead a normal quiet life as women, but all of us are impacted when some egomaniac does a stunt like this and the whole world remembers we exist in the worst way posisble
Yes, my goals were definitely to become a quiet, submissive tradcon wife, and never do anything of note. I would feel very liberated This is just astroturfing
@@felicityc There is absolutely nothing wrong if a woman wants out of her own free will and choice to be a stay at home wife. "Never doing anything of note" is also very subjective and differs from person to person, some are just content with having a healthy family and home, others arent and thats fine. I personally wouldnt degrade it as "nothing of note".
@@felicityc you did a lot of projecting there - all this person seemed to say was that they want to lead the life of the average non celeb woman, and you read into that a whole bunch of shit lol
@@felicityc You're mad at the idea of a woman being stay at home all the time & your watching a bunch of men who literally just sit on their ass on their gamer chairs all day. LOL OKAY.
@@Sinthe their delusion is even more ridiculous then. They have obviously never done competitive sports where an opponent is defending you or attacking you.
I'm not the biggest Destiny fan, but I was all the way team Destiny for this debate. Also, them acting like the disc golfer being a good point of reference for professional sport was plain insulting to all sports.
im an ex-league of legends addict. am i viable for this convo lol. they would listen to me until I said men and women's sports is nominal because it used to be your gender was your sex but its actual male and female sports and there is no point in having the separation if there are dumb exceptions made lol
look at the pool of people talking all there athletic examples was Golf, Tennis and Swimming until the black dude stepped in and said "what about basketball, Football, soccer, baseball" it basically never occurred to them poor people dominate 95% of sports contrary to what they see on there college equestrian team. the Argument that Income effects sports outcome was the most "do you even watch" circle jerk I have ever seen. And at 1:51:37 when they were determining a max and min for sports league... again they dont even know that WOMENS sports are closed and the men actually compete in a open league... A woman is not barred from playing in the NBA, NFL, MLB (there was actually a ban from 1952-1992) the male leagues in general did not even need a provision because #1 women would not make it anyways #2 we dont have super aliens... yet so that also was not a worry The Female Lebron James if ever a thing could exist can play in the NBA without legal issue.
"What do you think edocrinological sex is Destiny?" "Like classifying people based on their current level of their hormone profiles?" "No, it's the effect of the hormones on them" Absolutely classic, masterful. It really makes me think that the level of person's hormones doesn't compound the effect it has on said person's body.
I've noticed that this happens fairly often in his debates, someone will ask him what they perceive to be a gotcha question and then he'll answer it and they'll say no, you're wrong and then...say what he just said 🤯
@@roycegarvin i was an average male high school basketball player.. I would smoke the girls at the city's college while playing against them at the school's facilities.. I should have transitioned and played women's basketball
I’m pro trans but the sports thing is just a no win argument. It’s unfair for cis women to have to compete against trans women but at the same time I hate the idea of a segregated trans league. It’s nuanced but Most of this panel is just delusional.
That isn’t strictly true. There is no clear consensus that trans women have an inherent advantage. And even so it would differ between sports. Some sports already have things like weight classes, so it is possible to move someone who does have an advantage up so it is more balanced.
@@ellewilliams5162 Sure, but it seems pretty clear cut. We know for a fact men have a competitive advantage over women and we know the ability to train/work out faster and towards higher peaks provides men a competitive advantage, which things like steroids represents. The question would then become how much of a competitive advantage might this translate to and what sports is it applicable to. It's not like men transitioning to women lose all their men physical stats.
If they wanna transition they are already making sacrifices, they are making themselves unnatractive women, they are gonna have to deal with transphobia, and they're gonna have to give up sports it is what it is. This is what people are signing up for when they choose to transition to fix their dysphoria. It would be great if there was a separate league but it's not happening. 🤷♂️
@@table2187 sport is important for health and life, I didn’t participate in sport because I had dysphoria. So please don’t try and talk to me about harm. Figure what out? That isn’t how we do anything and policy will be updated as we learn more. Look at the ioc guidelines, they acknowledge all of this
@@ellewilliams5162 I know the difference between men and women in my sport is extreme, the top 1 woman in the world would lose 10 times out of 10 against any serious male amateur. Its unfathomable to me that a year or two on HRT would totally change that, and it goes way beyond just muscle mass and average physical size. Denying this is an extraordinary claim and "lack of consensus" because people are understandibly keeping their heads down in the current climate is not going to cut it.
None of these people look like they've ever competed in a sport, never actually watched sports, never paid attention in high school biology, don't understand sports science, don't understand physiology and don't have good diets. Steven is like two thirds to three quarters of those and is the most salient and knowledgeable person there. EDIT 1: I also call bullshit on the one transgender person talking about rock climbing. Crimping, footwork, holds are all taught the same across genders. It's up to the _individual_ to determine variations in technical, potentially do to some of their physiological limitations (shorter fingers or arms etc). Same goes for weightlifting. We teach everyone, generally, to squat the same way. Once weight starts getting heavier and/or form begins to break, _then_ you have to figure out nuances in the _individuals_ form, which isn't really based on gender but the physiological limitations of the individual (torso and leg length, hip width etc). EDIT 2: Holy fuck the more I listen to these people try and talk about strength, """finesse""" and how you can't have both in a sport the more angry I get from how utterly ignorant everyone here is. Everyone on this panel is a bunch of fart huffers.
Lmao on your second edit, i finished watching and I couldn’t stop laughing at the person who suggested you can’t have both. The dexterity NBA players have is insane being able to find touch and balance after incredibly explosive movements. It’s actually the wnba that lacks finesse as they don’t have to face tough defenses due to there being less athleticism. And in baseball you have to be able to connect with a ball being thrown often at 98+mph. Conclusion: i hare listening to i athletic people debate these things
9 people who have never done a lick of organised sport in their life arguing to remove womens spaces in sport is insanity. The discussion of finesse and power showed their complete lack of understanding of the level that elite athletes are at physically and technically, male or female. The period discussion was unbelievably misogynistic also
If they wanted to discuss whether periods affect training (which common sense could already give an answer to), they could have at least invited oh idk maybe a woman that experiences them?
@@NikaTheBoo I think that was a dumb point to argue about anyway though, out of all the differences between men and women in sports. The downtime women experience from periods probably isn't near the top of that list lol.
Destiny, I recently found your channel. I was a leftie (UK) but i dont recognise the left at all anymore. Thank you so much for standing up for women in this video, we need more on the left to do this! So much misogyny on this panel.
The left, a safe and peaceful place, where we don't know anything about the groups we say we care for, we say stuff like math is racist and IDs as well because black people don't have IDs (?), we have a panel about destroying women sport without a single woman present (but inclusivity is important in movies though), we just want to remind ourselves how the other groups are fascist, misogynistic and all around hateful and make sure we're on the right side, right? right? Virtue signaling feels good doesn't it. It feels so disgusting nowadays to have lefty opinions but looking at the left I don't ever want to say I'm a leftist, they absolutely disgust me.
Here's the thing, I am also left-leaning and disagree with many of the panelists. However, that doesn't mean you should go out and vote Tory. Most people running for office are more moderate than the far-left panelists here.
hearing that person say we should seperate sports based on INCOME was fucking INSANE to me, you know how damaging that would be to poor athletes who could make it big and have their entire family helped because of the sports money they earn? its ludicrous to hear this especially as a football fan, where the majority of these sports stars grew up in the poorest areas
Lmao That dude was a classic example of a dumb person who thinks they’re smart. I assumed he was going eventually concede and admit his income argument wasn’t fully fleshed out but he just refused. Lmao The guy clearly has never played a sport or even been a fan of sports to think income is the biggest factor to how well someone will do in sports. Lmao Does the guy not understand what genetics is and how all the money in the world wouldn’t make me as good as pro footballer? 🤣 It’s funny but honestly it does piss me off bc essentially they’re willing to utterly destroy women sports as long as it gives trans the ability to compete. Only men transitioning into woman sports though, lmao not the other way around.
I get that wanted to use it as a thought experiment but in reality there's a natural separation of rich / poor. Far more average rich individuals can pursuit pro sports in their teens while only the most talented poor will do so. It depends on what sport but I know plenty of well off engineers that played in elite under 20 teams but stopped to then pursuit higher education. But having separation in childhood would be retarded.
@@hughmongos3846we're one of the only places in the world, in the entire history of our species, where our poor are more likely to die of obesity than starvation. Isn't that just wild?
@@Rotwold The majority of nba and nfl players come from low income. Or even from high crime areas, I mean Lebron James, Allen Iversion, Shannon Sharp, Marshawn Lynch, Ricky Williams or hell any of the ones being arrested for gun crimes or beating their girlfriends every season. Those expensive traveling sports teams for kids hardly correlate to scholarships but don’t at all correlate to making to the pros. Or even to improve athleticism because hyper specialization hurts athletic development especially at a very young age. If you want to be a pro basketball or football player you’re better off just going to high school in the hood.
@@vikkidex literally insane. So gross to see all of these people who have clearly never even spoken to a female athlete pretending to be experts on this issue
Crazy that there's not a single cis woman on this panel that's all about cis women. Like, that's kind of fucked. (As far as I know? I'm not familiar with all of them).
From the side that says "you can't talk about x issues if you're not x", I feel like there is a strange lack of cis women in this discussion about female sports.
This is just baffling. Women's bodies go through hell during their period because it's basically akin to having a heart attack only in your uterus. It is the only medical condition that can have over 200 symptoms. Not saying we deserve a medal for it, but this is exactly why we need to have a separate women's space. Also, where are the women on this panel that can weigh in?
I still come back to this debate 2 years later because how bat shit insane the people on this panel are. They are so confident and so terminally online yet know nothing about anything. It's truly a hilarious convo
@@Majorwindy not did it not help, it turned out Destiny was right. Everyone knew that letting transwomen into female sports was fucking retarded. But the push to accept it made everyone second guess. It's good to see reason prevail for once.
Did this dude say that you lose 3 tablespoons of blood during your period? My god. As if all women are like that??? Um dude, we women are different.. some women's periods last 4 days, some last like 8 days, some even longer... some of us bleed heavy, some are light.. some of us retain water, have migraines.... our iron levels are typically lower.. holy shit, men don't know shit about female anatomy and physiology...we all are affected differently by our periods.. even down to our moods. wow..
@@Va11idus I think people have the intuition that if men have some sort of advantage, women need to have some advantage to balance it out. It's a misunderstanding of evolution.
Destiny: "You should actually refute the argument instead of wrongly assuming every conservative is a bad faith actor" Prime: "But every conservative IS a bad faith actor" Enough said, really.
leftists fucking love this phrase "acting in bad faith," they throw it around even more often than they call people "grifter." it makes me cringe every time I hear it, because some of these people are literally pathological liars, but also because they are often using it in reference to conservatives in general. which is so weird because you'd think if the only reason anyone had for supporting conservative policies or identifying as a conservative was some kind of bad faith grift or other ulterior motives, then the world would look extremely different. and this is so intuitive and obvious that it's hard to see how they couldn't understand this. like, can't they see that it's plainly impossible for this to be true? and the fact that they're repeating such an obviously false statement in order to dismiss the entirety of conservative thought with a handwave makes me think _they_ are the ones "acting in bad faith." obviously if roughly 50% of the population is consistently drawn toward conservatism, there's something there that demands explanation. on the right we generally understand that conservatism and leftism are not ideologies, but rather dispositions. and of course there are various ideologies that organize the thoughts of people disposed one way or the other, but ultimately the disposition is basically ingrained in one's personality and research indicates that it's usually innate and heritable. these are just two different ways of seeing the world and one's place in it, and those variations manifest in significant differences in life history strategies that can't even remotely be chalked up to "bad faith." like the fact that conservatives donate about 2-3 times larger shares of their income to charity than leftists do. that is pretty hard to square with the thesis that the whole phenomenon of people having right-wing opinions is solely a consequence of people acting in bad faith. it makes a lot more sense on the theory that people with a conservative disposition are inclined toward traditional religion, which is the engine that drives the vast majority of middle-class charitable contributions. and it's pretty hard to believe that _every single conservative_ would make all the sacrifices necessary to be part of a traditional religion, including giving away a sizeable chunk of their income, if their only interests were selfish and deceptive.
@@ToxicallyMasculinelol It's especially weird because it feels like such an online take. Odds are good they pass by conservatives every day (if they go outside or go to work), and they're not biting the heads off of minorities, and the crime statistics for the country don't indicate mass racial hatred or hate crimes. But yet a ton of leftists believe that ALL conservatives must be racist bigots just by virtue of being conservative. Which apart from being a literal case of prejudice, of course allowed by them because the targets are fine, is weird essentialization that they'd scream bloody murder about if it was done to literally any other group ever. You can confidently say "well you know what those conservatives are like!" in relation to something awful and all you'll get is claps and yaass queens. But if you said that about lefties or any non-white, non-straight, non-christian group, you'd get murdered.
That trans guy was just straight up lying about Lia Thomas swimming times. He says for 1650m that the times and results were comparable after 2 years on HRT. In reality although her times reduced after HRT; She won in the men's in the IVY League but she was only ranked 89 among men in the Country. 2 years later with a one minute slower performance she won a national Championship for the Women's NCAA division 1 which is much higher than IVY League level.
The fact that destiny is the only one who has an understanding of periods is sad. As well as them saying most training women don’t have their period cause you’re obviously not watching out for your peers. If you don’t get ur period there is a problem and sometimes is biological or wrong health wise please see a doctor if u haven’t
I also don’t agree with 3 table spoons of blood cause it’s not just blood it’s also tissue and lining and personally it feels and looks a lot more but I’m not gonna test that myself lol
I don’t get offended easily, but a panel of loser men brushing off the physiological effects of women’s periods made me incredibly angry. Thank you for sticking up for women, Destiny.
I tried to listen to this while trying to fall asleep. The menstruation topic knocked all of the drowsiness away from me holy shit how do they know nothing about women?
In reference to what in particular? Because that same part got my attention. But it was because Destiny actually said something incorrect, which I don't notice happen often. Because in the extreme low body fat physiques of some female athletes can contribute to a biological environment leading to temporary irregularity or cessation of menstruation.
Yeah... that male who said menstruation is only 3 spoonfuls and doesn't impact females performance must have failed health class. He must've never seen a sanitary pad or lived with a female. To be clear: losing any body fluid for days at a time for any reason will impact physical performance. When it's menstrual fluid, it's taking a ton of iron and nutrients & often leaving us anemic.
I love how easy they can generalize conservatives but the minute the generalization of male and female happens they all turn into full scientist and try to find every nuance possible
that whole opening debate was just dumb "lets talk about those few conservatives that said they want Trans people to just die" ok... what about the Liberals who want conservatives to die? what about the liberals who want politicians to die? Angry dumb people say shit all the time online, why would you make that the focal point about the debate around the majority of a group of people?
Man Prime needs to get someone else to moderate. He's doing a bad job and is actually trying to keep at a topic when everyone else agreed to move on. Just be a panelist and have someone else do the moderating. I just can't take him serious at all.
Was he supposed to be moderating in this? He was actively arguing for a side every time he spoke. I assumed this was someone else's panel that he decided to join in on as a panelist
I was like, Ashley, Finally! An actual biological female who knows how period works and can give valuable insight into how it affects a woman's day. And then Ashley opened her mouth.... Disappointed! Lmao
I read this comment before she came on thinking “oh no the only cis woman is gonna have a dogshit argument” but was punched in the gut by that voice ☠️
Dylan saying the dude with the dog pfp is going on "Jordan Peterson ramblings" when all he's done is give mild and rational takes has got to be one of the most soy moments in this entire panel and there's a lot.
It is kind of funny how they talk about this without a single CIS woman. Could you imagine a panel of all white people talking about the racism that black people suffer from in USA?
People on the left do stuff like that too haha, I’m not left or right personally, but I have friends on the left and we were once in a group just chatting and the only black person in the group said they didn’t agree with other black people using the n word, and all the white people in the group proceeded to not listen to his opinion and educate him on why it’s fine for black people to use the n word.. I just sat back and observed this mess and didn’t have an opinion on it because it’s not my place and if that’s how he feels then that’s how he feels!
I'm a moderate conservative, and a dues paying member of my state GOP and I don't hate trans people, and I definitely don't want them to hurt themselves. They are individuals and ends in themselves, as all people are, and they should be treated as such.
"I never said that. That was never said. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said a conservative would usually say that. I did NOT say that it is a typical argument conservatives use." Boom check mate gotem master debater. God these people.
@@stephenzavatski8016 As long as you can still cut through the shit and don't start speaking like that in normal life, you're good. If someone says something and your first thought it "You're psychotic" then maybe you need to take a little break from the debates though.
Very few people do this. A lot of people have also been just good enough for a rookie contract and then waste all of their money because they believe that they are better than they actually are. Far more people leave poverty by conventional means than by sports.
@@pleasenobotsjd1744 A lot of college athletes get screwed because they do not move to a pro position. All while taking the easiest course load. Colleges do not care about these people. They care about attendance. Making the College more money. That is fine to make more money but if the scholarships do not help ALL athletes do better after school then they are not that valuable.
@@Onthebrink5 you made the point that more people leave poverty but conventional means rather than sports. By that I’m assuming you mean getting a college education and going into the work force. A majority of college athletes will not go pro or their sport doesn’t even have a professional scene (softball). I’m saying that college sports are a great way for people in less fortunate upbringings to get a college degree debt free. And also to say colleges don’t care about sports is flat out wrong. If all colleges cared about was money then they would only have football basketball, and volleyball (to comply with title 9) as these are the only sports that generate money for colleges.
The argument is "we can't admit that trans men have an obvious advantage, physically because then we're forced to admit that trans women aren't the same as biological woman" And we can't have anyone knowing the truth!
This appears to be one of those problems that you're apparently "transphobic" for pointing out. You know.. one of those problems that will eventually fix itself
@@ljb8157 they're all biologically denialists and would rather allow the deluded to roam free and cause trouble rather than dealing with the problems they have.
I don’t wanna be that guy but I Remember being told that gender and sex are different. People would say “we’re not denying biology gender and sex are different” and I was like, sure whatever I guess that sorta makes sense. But now it’s like well trans women should be allowed to compete with other women and I’m over here like, wtf you guys said gender and sex were different things. Female sports is not separated by gender it’s separated by sex. It feels like everyone was playing hide the ball and I sorta feel stupid for falling for it
It’s because of the law. It’s “sexist” to draw lines for trans at because Employer was “sex-stereotype” the transwoman. That’s the same as discriminating woman for their sex. To commit sex discrimination, one does it based on sex stereotype. Eg only man can wear pants not woman. Here, can’t discriminate transwoman to woman sports because only man have big shoulders, big hip, big muscles would be sex stereotype. Unless there’s a (terrible) concession or recognition of biological reality, it’s over.
I feel that making a firm line in the sand and calling it Female sports would end this debate. Transwomen aren't female. They may be women, but not female. I've always felt the argument ridiculous and a strange hill to die on because from the moment I started hearing about gender as a social construct, I assumed sports were separated on a biological line
@@wastingmylifeaway4898 I've been hammering on about it being female sports for months, doesn't really make any difference to the activists, in fact they've taken to shifting the goalposts even more now and the rate at which they are claiming that HRT literally does change a person's sex is disturbing. They are utterly brainwashed and just dismiss data proving them wrong. Usually they just stop replying once you dismantle their bs talking points. Still, it's important to keep repeating the facts of the matter, potentially give more people the courage or whatever to start speaking up more. Try asking them if they are claiming the female category of sports was created based on how people identify.
@@wastingmylifeaway4898 adult females are women, there's no difference. Trans women are simply trans women. They aren't women and they aren't females. Is it so hard to say 'hey this person wants to be treated as a female' instead of just flat out denying reality?
Thank you destiny for explaining periods to these idiots. Our periods sucks and at a young age when our periods begin we have been monitory our period symptoms just cus you see a professional athlete women not ever complain about her periods publicly doesn’t mean they Aren’t being affected by it. I’ve been super tired, every part of body hurts, a Migraine starting to develop, and emotional during work but I never show it but as soon as I get home I freakin cry and put on pjs and go to sleep for hours. This is something that each women had to develop a thick skin in order to function when doing rigorous activities. Then we have the layer of social stigma. Like the anxiety and embarrassment of staining your clothes, not fitting into clothes, emotional moments, smells, not having napkins/tampons as asking other girls for one, being put down because of our periods. Then there is the deeper stuff hormone Imbalance, over bleeding, pcos, never getting periods, low iron, pain where you can pass out, depression, bi polar symptoms due to periods, becoming infertile.
Wow women got it tough unironically. I've conceptualized and dealt with some of these symptoms with my ex and others with my sisters, but never all of them at once and when you put it that way, that shit is rough. Thanks for the elucidation on the subject for my own knowledge. I'll be more sensitive when dealing with women on their periods (not that I was an asshole before).
Literally billions of dollars in our economy are lost each year due to menstruation, bc females are ill and unable to work to our peak capacity during that time. Hearing this panel try to argue that a period is only 3 spoonfuls (have they never seen a sanitary pad?! 🤣) & doesn't impact our performance was intellectually painful. None of these males should have a platform if they're going to spout such misogynistic bs
We are also taught at a young age to never talk or complain about our periods. I do now lol well only to people I’m comfortable but I think now it’s more talked about…sort of. Like I just found out young girls have period parties…like that pretty cool lol
Holy shit I was getting so triggered about their talk about "finesse" vs "strength" in sports. This is literally just an argument of form. In golf, there's plenty of people who will sacrifice form vs power. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you cannot increase BOTH.
They really don't get it the refinement of power is finesse because you master and control the power you have. Like how it was an old meme of Football players taking ballet to help them become more limber and understand how to shift weight without injury.
Should maybe have some biological women in here to talk about female biology, would be good. There are literally periodization programs around menstrual cycles, to optimize training for elite athletes, because having periods reduce the effectiveness of training that much. A lot of these arguments on this panel are absolutely absurd and not based in science. Trans women in sport is just unfair. If you don't comprehend that you're living in some alternate reality. Trans league is the way to go.
Having an actual woman there would mean that trans woman arnt actual woman or they believe that's what it means. Whatever side of the isle you're on you can't just ignore how the human body works.
I don't know how people get this dumbass idea. Being a woman tells you about ONE person's periods. Your own. You can get the same as a dude by asking one woman. If anything they should have someone on, who asked MANY women about their periods and read some statistics.
![[UA] Eternal Fire проти NAVI | EPL Season 20 Malta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/chvlsDygrZM/mqdefault.jpg)
Destiny joins debate panel and debates the controversial topic of trans sports.
Please August. Make sure destiny reads this comment as it is a very good counterpoint that he should have brought up but didn't.
At around 19:00 and before, they were talking about how some conservatives want transpeople to commit su!cide. Dr K said something stupid like: "the conservative bills being passed through are done so to harm transpeople, but on my side (lefties) our argument in favor of transwomen in sports is not done with the intent to harm transpeople".
The easy rubttle is this: "No shit. Everyone's side thinks that what they are doing is positive. Conservatives don't push these anti trans bills because they are evil and want to hurt transpeople, they do it because they believe that something like allowing trans teens to get on HRT before 18 IS harmful to those teens. So their motivation is also to help transpeople even though you (Dr K) disagree with the methods they want to implement to help transpeople." The difference is that Dr K can't empathize with the conservatives, she just thinks they are evil n@zis.
It has driven me crazy so far that destiny hasn't brought this up.
Destiny is playing devils advocate so good. I really feel strongly about allowing trans people into their respective categories. But I really have no idea how to implement policies and I think it’s important to see both sides from someone who doesn’t just hate trans people
@@rattler515151 He's not playing devils advocate.
Destiny had the kid gloves on in this one. The point about transgender athletes not being a problem because they’re so few of them is such an easy point to shoot down. It doesn’t matter how many trans athletes there are, it only takes a single individual to hold a record and almost every sport has some kind of world record at every tier of the sport. Case in point Lia Thomas now holds the 500m female Ivy League swim speed record.
Destiny, joining this debate im thinking is similar to someone picking Yasou jng in your ranked promos. DODGE FFS
listening to 10 people who have never been outside or done any sports discuss technique vs power in sports is just absolutely mind melting, I can't do it
Don't forget that they're discussing whether women's sports should continue to exist, and whether trans-women pose a threat to women's sports... Without a single fucking cis-woman in the call...
@@MItchellLification yoooo, true.
fr LMAO
Sports have never been fair. By having a competitive sport you are just trying to find the people with the most unfair biological advantages.
@@petyrbaelish1216 You’re inherently gonna lose this argument it’s best to just move onto something else,
That one kid saying periods don't affect a woman's life is 100% an only child that lives just with his dad
or is lying because the point doesn't fit his narrative. It's gotta be ignorance or malice.
Haha so true. Even studies in sports science shows a women’s performance is hugely dependent on what day she is in her cycle. I think Stephanie buttermore did a good UA-cam video explaining all the science about it. It’s actually super interesting. Which honestly might have to do with why most Olympic athletes lose their period, they actually benefit from it, even thought it’s clearly not healthy lol!
@@caitlinharper1633 athletes may miss their period for similar reasons to why some people with anorexia miss their period. if your BMI is so low that your body thinks you are starving, it may skip your next period to conserve energy. athletes sometimes work themselves to very low bmi for competition which might cause a missed period.
@@rynethorup5690 lying is the key word hear. Which was happening throughout, like that other person trying to bring up examples of trans men dominating in sports, when it was clearly just lies. A lot of the people on this panel are either crazy, really not very bright, or are intentionally not addressing the issue honestly, or it's a combination, either way they are not actually benefiting anyone, and certainly in the long run are only going to make this worse for both women and trans people. Nothing was ever solved by people approaching an issue dishonestly or without intelligence or wisdom.
@@estellakaleo8937 yes, exactly it’s beneficial not healthy
This is what happens when u get 14 kids that were picked last for dodgeball pretending to be experts on sports
I miss dodgeball. My favorite move was to use a ball as a shield to bounce the other team's balls back at them
Lol, so true
Non-athletes completely out of their realm... I've played basketball and done combat sports from youth to adulthood... Women's sports will die if they are not segregated.
LMAO so true
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u lol same, i could dunk by the time i was 15 and could do crazy shit like windmills by the time i was 17, and in pretty sure there have been like 10 women ever who’ve ever dunked and they could barely do it while being 6’8” the difference in performance is insane
As a woman with endometriosis and ovarian cysts I was is extreme pain during my period and I have had friends that have had iron injections and transfusions due to heavy blood loss during their periods. It is mind blowing to see men with no fucking idea debating about women's periods. It would be like a bunch of women debating that being kicked in the balls should have no effect on men's athletic ability.
My mom has your condition and hearing stories about it makes me shudder. Y’all are brave
I have a girlfriend that gets extremely lethargic and a lot of pain when she's on her period. We work out togheter but some days she just can't. I laughing in anger at that little boy, has he even ever talked to a woman?
Found the nazi
On abortion: "Why are all these male politicians making decisions about women's bodies"
On women's sports: (a panel of men) "I WANT TO GET RID OF WOMENS SPACES IN SPORTS"
You should add: panel of non-athletes
Thicc irony
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u ikr.
based
On political issues: A room (including Destiny) full of armchair commentators.
ah yes, 16 people in one panel. cant wait to hear the fully fleshed out arguments and well thought out responses from the panelist.
good thing prime's here to tell us the right answer
I'm just here for the shitshow, not for a long boring conversation about topics I don't really care about as much as I maybe should. I'm more interested in Destiny's thought process around topics vs the topics themselves.
Indubitably
It's mostly a bunch of males arguing that menstruation doesn't impact females' performance or wellbeing. Which is utterly laughable, as anyone who's lived with a female can tell you.
who cares ppl r here for bloodsports
Woman here! Weird how quick they were to dismiss Destiny talking about women getting iron deficiency anemia as a consequence of menstruation. I had this happen. It's a pretty common thing. There are lots of complications associated with menstruation.
I was out with my friend, she passed out and we both learned that fact on that day. And when I went through EMT school they did tell us that yes men and women will have different diseases affect them in higher probabilities same as for genetics for race, like destiny said, sickle cell anemia affects Africans more than latino or asian.
The one and only time I have passed out was due to this.
It's very common. That's why women's multivitamins have more iron, due to men and women's biological differences.
True story: when I fainted I had just gotten to a festival with friends. They asked me to hold their drinks so they could use the portapotty. As a younger woman I wasn't a fan of drinking and actually had my friends try to playfully peer pressure me into it several times. Welp, I fainted while holding their drinks so I spent the rest of the day being made fun of. 😂😂😂 Good times.
Women being iron deficient is very common and it actually isn't as easy as taking a few pills to correct it. Women also have way more thyroid issues, it's linked to this and it affects how much iron gets absorbed into the blood and muscles. Bio men don't have this.
Holy shit I’ve never been more infuriated in my entire life. I am a woman collegiate athlete who plays softball who also plays professionally overseas. I’ve played against trans women during my travel ball years and I can attest to the advantages they have. I miss a spot, I could quite literally die. I’ve been hit by liners up the middle more times than I can count, I’ve been hit in the face and chest and I’ve recovered. But those were 70-78 mph exit speeds from women. A trans women gets up in the box and I could very well miss a spot and take a 90 mile an hour exit velo to the teeth 35 feet from the plate and fucking die. Pitching to a trans woman would be suicide. That’s why 95% of the time WE INTENTIONALLY WALK THEM SO OUR PLAYERS DONT GET HURT. In my opinion, just give them their own category and call it a day. And also for the whole period thing, women tend to schedule workout rest days when their periods start. Because men don’t understand that when a woman gets her period, not only is there just bleeding- your joints loosen and relax and period week is when most injuries tend to happen. And also that fuckhead in the left hand corner that believes women only bleed like three tablespoons worth of blood is a dumbass.
they dont want another category, they want to take YOUR spaces, they dont even hide it anymore
The thing I haven't heard these people talk about are sports scholarships. Under systems they think are the solution, they'd be destroying any women's sports scholarships since there would be no women on sports teams. Nevermind how it would be ridiculous to try and track some level of ELO across someone's entire life to determine what they'd be allowed to compete in.
There aren't enough of them to have their own category, just make it male and female leagues
@@shinobi-no-buenotranswoman are woman
the problem with giving them their own category an calling it a day, is no one will watch. And they know that. They want to be seen, so they are going to rip down womens sports to make sure they are seen. The guy with Dr in his name just said he doesn't care about the rest of the planet. 'terfs can shove it' I think everyone on the planet should hear him speak. Nothing will destroy all this nonsense quicker than letting them talk.
"you can train when you're on your period. Besides, top female athletes lose their period." Omg, lol. The level of cringe in this conversation. Who in this chat knows anything at all about periods? Destiny seems to be the only person who has been in the vicinity of period blood.
I dunno if it's just me but I feel like people on opposite sides of the political Isle are kinda similar in a sense that they are staunchly ideological and lack experience. On one side, you have incels who are very misogynistic and on the other end we have incels that are angry at conservatives so they plant themselves in the Liberal camp. I think we are seeing a bit of that on display here. These men clearly have not spoken to many real women except in their echo Chambers, they don't know what the real world is like so they have dogshit takes but they are extremely ideologically motivated by their disdain for the right even though they're not that different.
@@noahfletcher3019 For me, this discussion should be about "people who have undergone male puberty.". Because in my opinion the problem is not with trans women. I doubt anyone would have a problem with a trans woman who was on puberty blockers at a young age and then transitioned without going through male puberty. I'm even open to the idea that maybe we will just have to accept that trans women have been delt a shit hand in most areas of their life and having a leg up in women's sports is the one advantage they have coming their way. But to pretend that training for years with the free test levels of a teenage boy is not going to give long-term performance advantages is just insulting. Arguing that if an athlete goes on HRT for a year, they immediately lose any edge that years of male hormones may have given them is disingenuous or willfully ignorant.
@@harlanhardway5955 Ever looked at the site boysvswomen?
@@harlanhardway5955 no. no. no. this is an argument in favor of putting little boys on chemically sterilizing drugs because "what if 'she' wants to compete with the girls when 'she's' older :(((" no men in womens sports. women are not men with a handicap.
@@harlanhardway5955 bad take
Men should not be in women's sports regardless of transitioning stage
There's more to being a man than just testosterone levels
Gotta give it up for prime. Hosting a panel that heavily revovles around cis womens place in sports without having a single panelist be a cis woman is a brilliant move. Good job avoiding bringing on people who would be helpful in revealing the truth about cis womens experience with periods and how that, and other things, affect their training differently then cis mens.
Also bringing in a bunch of terminally online people to talk about the highest echelons of athletic ability. A really bold move. I think this is some kind of post modern panel, where all the people with relevant knowledge might be intentionally not there to make a statement or something.
But it's absolutely painful hearing absurd shit like "You barely lose any blood on your period, also after like 5 months you lose all male advantage you had" followed by "Also after 2 years you lose all male advantage you had", further followed by "You still show an advantage up to 4 years later" followed by "Yeah, that's correct".
Half the panel think they know stuff they don't even know. They don't know that periods absolutely shut down some women, especially physically, for some time. They don't even know how much of an advantage you maintain, yet are trying to argue it's below or above some arbitrary line.
"Actually Lia Thompson was ok to compete because the ruling body said so. :)" "Actually FUCK the ruling body they said Caster Semenya couldn't compete" "Lia thompson was FIRST (in her class) at swimming, I don't see why transitioning to being FIRST (in female nationals) is such a big deal, both FIRST!!"
Absolutely wacky. Because hitting times that were 500th in mens but 1st in womens isn't sus at all.
not "cis" just women. theres no such thing as "trans women" they are men. men cant be any kind of woman.
@@noobslayer1196 It definitely helps to know what a period is like before making definitive, prescriptive claims about them. At least from a female family member or something.
I mean, they're talking about how little blood you lose in a period and how little it affects women when both of those are easily debunked by just LOOKING at period products. So sure, being a woman doesn't make you innately more knowledgable about it than men, but it sure makes you more knowledgable than people who don't even know how to read period products.
Same goes for the sporting thing and many of them clearly not having any idea about what training is actually like. Sure, you don't need to be an olympian to understand all the intricacies of training, but you sure need to know more than most of these people do. Just about any physio could 10x better than "I know what training is like because I play disc golf and men do power and women do finesse".
@@noobslayer1196 So good for you. Let me know when you're on a panel talking about something you're informed about and I'll keep an eye out for it. In the meantime I'll continue to find it annoying when morons go on panels to talk about things they have no experience or knowledge in.
Don't call them cis women, that is a made-up word and a slur that is intended to denormalize womanhood. Call them what they are, normal women. Or real women if you take issue with normal women.
to someone looking outside in at this group, these people are completely insane. it's honestly crazy that people are so stuck in a bubble that they think this theyre right lol.
Yeah they’re in some hilarious bubble where they think any of their opinions are normal or reasonable to anyone a millimeter to the right of them.
@@muninnsays9296 90% of these people are fringe acting like it's common sentiment lol. They don't even understand how absurd what they're saying is
That god everyone RW got banned from the internet huh
@@teammo959 what?
@@zip1233 If RW was allowed on YT this shit wouldn't even be an issue, these freaks would be bullied off the internet
The thing that always gets me about these people, is that they are so completely eclipsed by their own notion of how important it is to protect the feelings of Trans people that it completely blinds them to the fact that they are just throwing women under the bus. They are effectively putting the feelings of trans people above the feelings of women.
There was not a single "Female" on the panel. What's up with that?
That’s the point, the trans community is a misogynistic mens rights movement
You can tell they've never considered that affirming those feelings may not be the most compassionate way to help them.
@zachb.6606 a good saying, and good song, sometimes "it's cruel to be kind". It's not to say to be mean, but is to say that you can do more harm by avoiding doing what is necessary or in attempts to spare them from hurt, reality, etc.
Anyways, I basically just said what ypu said, in a different way. Well said, friend.
No, they are putting the feelings of males above the rights, safety, interests and dignity of females. These people don’t give a sh*t about transmen either. This is 100% a male’s rights movement.
*Talking about MtF participating in Women's leagues*
*Doesn't include a single Cis woman in the discussion*
For real. Quite frankly, I don't really want to hear what trans women and men have to say about this, just based on how this panel fucking went down. The people this most affects are cis women, especially athletic cis women.
The people who should be here should be mostly women, some trans women, and maybe 1-2 men. Men can have an opinion, obviously, but for anything to ever get anywhere is for there to be more cis women here.
I think it also speaks to something about how competitive men are in sports. You don't ever hear anyone complaining about Yao Ming, Shaq, or even someone extremely big in wrestling. It's seen as a challenge. I think that's why in men's sports nothing "unfair" is ever talked about besides steroids or some other artificial enhancing drug. The men with opinions on women's sports mostly just say something with the motive of protecting women or they simply don't care about women's sports.
fucking based as shit. This group would lose their mind in any other scenario talking about certain minorities without including the ones you're talking about. The whole panel was filled with "I think, or I assume what cis women dont like or the problem cis women have is......" no one thought hey, do you think we should find at least 1 cis women as one of the 20 people we got for this panel. I know theres not a lot of cis women out there but i bet you could find someone
Really fair and nuanced, huh?
What they really needed was more athletes.
Might be a controversial statement. But I wish there had been a woman on this debate that could’ve actually spoke to the menstruation/training question.
lol I was thinking during that whole segment like bring me in there and ill tell them my experiences with my period. how it keeps me in bed for days, how I miss work because of it, how out of control my hormones get, or how the cramps and bloat knock you right off your feet and will come out of nowhere. These men have no idea about women or their bodies and how they function. It was super frustrating to watch.
Don't forget the women's spaces angle
I mean some random woman wouldn't be able to speak on that. You'd need a highly trained athlete whose body fat percentage was extremely low. Body fat is a source of estrogen, so the reduced fat in extremely lean women can potentially compound with other biological factors to cause temporarily irregularities or cessation in menstruation.
@@Therhyrhy123 They don't seem to understand that menstruation varies drastically between individuals. One woman may be barely affected and another could lose enough blood to be considered a minor medical emergency (of course that's unusual).
@@MrShagification I think Destiny’s point stands. Menstruation and hormones are something that a MTF athlete doesn’t have to deal with, and that definitely confers an advantage. The argument that three years of estrogen and HRT therapy can erase the advantage of 10-15 years of growth stimulated by male hormones is felonious. Tired of trans claiming science is on there side when studies are clearly inconclusive. There’s just too many variable to definitively declare MTF trans athletes have NO advantage.
God I hate prime's panels. A brutal combination of lack of structure and double the amount of people that should be in a conversation and overwhelming numbers on one side of the issue. The result: 13 people talking at the same time in an indecipherable bubble of nonsense, followed by an awkward 3 second silence. One person then rambles off 6 points that will never be revisited, an insult gets thrown, and repeat.
I seriously hate prime panels so much
Dylan is panel god.
He's a bad moderator. It could work if he wasn't bad at it.
Add to that the annoying appeals for “bits”.
Panels are already bad and Prime is the worst moderator. It really shows you how no one wants to moderator, maybe there's no money to be made in it, or whatever, but Destiny was actually unironically good as moderator (when he wasnt trolling). But I dont care if Anderson Cooper himself hops on the stream to moderate, anything more than 1 v 1 is a shit show anyway
not a single women on panel lol
Trans woman are woman
@@skuzzlebutt9745 But they're not female. Not a single female on the panel
@@Horny_Fruit_Fliestrans woman are woman theres no difference
as a woman this is repulsive how backwards these people are. this is the definition of insanity.
That's how the pomo left is. And it's taken over, so if you're a leftist, you have to deal with it now. It's not going away.
You're decision.
@@relaxingsounds1386 not a leftist lol so stop assuming random women on the internet are. sounds like you haven’t met enough women.
I love the very stupid arguments that these people make about those opposed to trans participation being hypocrites because they obviously don't attend women's sporting events. This is like one of those things that is probably true but it is completely misleading. I don't attend high school football games that often either but I used to go watch when I was younger. I also went to a whole bunch of field hockey, volleyball and cheerleading events when I had a connection to the participants. I watched girlfriends and girls that were just friends when they had big games etc.
If I went now, I should be put on some kind of watch list. But as a personal belief, I still think high school and college sports are incredibly important for kids/young adults and this argument that we should restructure the entire system in order to pander to a few dozen shameless, attention-whores is baffling. It is kind of disappointing to look back on this tom-fukery and see how much damage it has done to the left. I have never seen a stronger commitment to self-sabotage in my life.
What is a woman? lol
i think destiny was pretty based in reality compared to people who think they can evaluate hormones to dictate sports
I love lefties in trans arguements. It's just beautiful watching them flip on everything they ever said. Who could've imagined we'd get a room full of them arguing that periods aren't a big deal at all
Honestly the period thing was so stupid and just wrong. Women don't bleed 3 table spoons in a day, let alone the average week of torture. And for 100% certain that cramps and the various symptoms that come with periods effect performance
@@SpectreBagels Ikr. Sure it’s different for some women but from experience it ain’t a walk in the park. lol
@@SadEyes1412 Yea and honestly I would say even the mildest cases with less to no pain still have to deal with bleeding. Losing cups or even "spoons" worth of blood for days doesn't have NO effects especially when stressing your body with rigorous physical activity
that one was so bad. i've seen lefties argue that women should be allotted time off of work/school bc their periods can be so bad, and i agreed with them! i couldnt imagine any of these ppl engaging with that conversation to support cis women in the workplace, if your period doesnt actually make you nauseous or give you so much pain that youre lightheaded all day what could you possibly need a break for?
@@SpectreBagels well that’s what you get with a call full of people who can’t even have periods
As a woman (cis if you must) it was absolutely hilarious listening to a bunch of men argue about periods when they clearly know nothing about them.
“It’s only 4 tablespoons” 😂😂 what a fucking clown that guy is for that.
To be honest, Destiny had the most accurate take about it. The guy yelling that periods make no difference in women's performance or training was so beyond clueless, cringe, and (as much as I hate the overuse of the word) misogynistic.
@@cpisarek4284 I thought it was peak misogyny. He’s the classic misogynist joke of a guy telling women to shut up about their periods.
I’m not an athlete (by ANY means) but my period is interruptive in my day-to-day life. There are a number of very common conditions like endometriosis and ovarian cysts that can impact issues like pain, bleeding, predictability…
My endometriosis results in pretty heavy blood loss each month and as a result I’m chronically anemic. I’m currently on prescription iron supplements (as other were not effective) and currently am trying an IUD with the sole intention of stopping my period so my body can actually have a period of recovery.
I know that many female athletes have their periods cease due to their training and conditioning. For those that don’t, I wonder how issues like bloating would impact elements like pre-match weigh-ins.
I would actually love hearing a specialist speak on the intersections between menstruation and athleticism…
Us men are lucky as hell not to have periods. Nastiest shit ever .
as a former female athlete, i was honestly surprised to see what manner of shlubby dude was still able to do 5 pull ups. I have never done one, and 3rd grade boys and un active husky or weaker men can manage a couple at least. The upper body strength difference is wild. My husband and I are the same height and weight, and even half drunk play fighting, he can take me down with like no effort. i don't think guys realize just how strong in comparison they really are bc most men don't go around fighting women full on and testing their strength but its a no brainer if you think about it for 2 seconds.
Exactly, I'm 30 years old, if I go without doing pull ups for a month, I can knock out at least 3 back to back and within 48 hours of doing these maybe 5 times, I can return to the gym and knock out 5 within each set. The way the average man builds muscle is drastically different
Conservatives should just broadcast this entire panel discussion unedited at their GOP and recruitment rallies.
I always say nobody is better at recruiting new right wingers than left wingers.
@@OxdevasterxO How did you have time to start leaning right? A new settlement needs our help! Please, mark it on my map.
Im a lifelong lefty who will be voting right for the first time in the 15 years ive been able to vote if republicans run a moderate. Tired of the left shitting on women.
@@steaksauce232 Hi Vaultech calling!
I don't think subjecting people to torture is going to inspire many people to join the right.
1:38:54 "lung capacity is only important in high endurance sports" She should be kicked out of the debate. That is either bad faith or that person is so unknowledgeable that they should not slow the debate down with nonsense.
The same with rockclimbing or gymnastics....
Men smoke women.
Anyone can watch what men do in Women Gymnastics.
They as flexible as women & jump higher & do way more extreme stuff.
Maybe in agility women are close to men, but still men dominate.
@@aidasmatulaitis5175 cringe cuckservative
@@aidasmatulaitis5175 We don’t do that here Aidas. You’re on the wrong channel.
Oxygen intake seems like the one thing thats vital in every possible physical activity imaginable. Like men intake around 15-30% more oxygen than women. The more oxygen you intake, the less of your own energy storage you have to burn
@@sam1fi683 this immediately made me think back to a Fear Factor final round where the contestants basically just had to hold their breath under water for as long as they could, and from what I recall it was 1 man vs 3 women. He won by a landslide. Now that don’t sit right with me knowing this lung capacity fact lol
The sheer number of non-athletes on this panel having such strong opinions about sports is incredible. And no, disc golf does not count just like chess doesn't count.
If I can smoke a cigarette and play the game at the same time it's not a sport.
Looking at you, baseball.
Ironically, there is a sort of disc golf ELO, and top women barely touch amateur men’s ELO.
@Alexander Ceja ELO was the original way to rate grandmaster chess players. Many ratings systems developed mirror it to an extent. Disc golf has a similarish system although it is calculated quite a bit different. In disc golf, a given course is rated as 1000 based on the average score of the top 100 scores. There are no women that ever score above 1000 essentially. That is to say, the top woman athlete doesn’t exceed the average of the top 100 male athletes.
Disc golf lmao
@Xavier E not for me, you gotta get a bigger board bud
Who the hell told him we only loose 3 tablespoons ?
Someone who never woke up to a bed that looked like a murder scene, who never saw a poor high school girl who miscalculated and wore white pants, someone who never saw a woman go through half a package of pads in 3 days, or who never met someone who had a 7 day heavy period.
As a high-performance athlete myself, these people who are not high-level athletes are grossly underqualified to discuss this issue. Claiming that a 120-pound man and 120-pound woman will be equal in running is incredibly wrong. At the elite level, on the most conservative estimate, professional male runners are 8% faster than females, and upwards of 15-20% on the high end. GET ATHLETES ON THESE PANELS. (not disc golfers)
Thank god none of these people are in office or actually important
They’re wrong on running and other athletic competitions but they lean on those because it’s an easier argument to make than any sport where there is offense/defense
As a casual disc golfer I reject your premises!
@@jacobnolan510 Jackson is about to be in US Supreme Court
disc golf is not a sport btw
Man I haven't seen Destiny go 1v9 in a long, long time and I've watched the entire climb to Diamond
o7
Holy
o7, brave soldier
I will remember you fondly
@Ian did he make diamond?
Ironically the mental gymnastics involved on this panel would actually earn them a gold medal
Rofl
Underrated comment
There are definitely some joints that will need to be iced down.
"Women outperform men in gymnastics". Huh? Where are these unisex gymnastics competitions?
If trans women in sports are incredibly rare, wouldn't it seem extremely fucking weird to find 3 rank 1 finishers in women sports be trans? Wouldn't that be extremely unlikely if they in fact didn't have a massive advantage over sis women?
Im guessing that this person is also an athlete with all the mental gymnastics she is going through to justify this.
They don't give a shit, trans people dominating cis women is "affirming" for them so it isn't just ok, it's great, they've turned coddling into a social movement.
Yeah, great point. If being trans is very rare, and being a trans athlete is very rare, that's "very, very rare"? And then finding one of those very, very rare individuals that's going to rank above the rest should be very, very, very rare?
Just to add to this. They make the argument not all sports are based on strength or mass. Curling, shooting to name a couple Olympic sports. IF that is the case then trans-men should have no issue still competing against regular men. They wouldn't need to compete against women if strength etc didn't matter.
There are less Olympic gold medalists than there are billionaires in the world. The fact that we have 5+ Olympic qualifying transwomen at all is an insane statistical anomaly. It's more insane than Dream's minecraft speedrun being legitimately a coincidence. Transwomen only make up .02% of the population (of America too holy shit) There are 33 times as many people who are missing entire limbs than there are transgenders. 33 to 1.
When was the last time you've seen a person with 1 arm or 1 leg irl? When was the last time you've seen a transwoman in real life? Now when was the last time you've ever seen a billionaire in person? The numbers don't make sense.
Your premise isnt flawed, but it doesn't necessarily make it a matter of fact for your conclusion. Also, are we talking at the highschool, college or professional level? Is this with or without hormone therapy? Their is a skill gap for each category, and level of therapy.
Leave it to men to tell woman everywhere that periods don't affect us... 🙄
Yea um… I’m not normally a simp white knight or whatever but… on behalf of all men sorry for these guys. Sorry
That schmuck said women lose 3 tbls of blood. What an idiot
Exactly
the guy who said that made 0 good points the entire time I'm not surprised
@@marlom7882 you don't apologize for me for there's nothing for me to apologize for
“I don’t know where you are getting this evidence that trans women have this “biological advantage” after 3 years Destiny” *Goes from 400th place to 1st place*
But in the smaller completions she got 1st place, so it’s basically the same😂😂😂
@@Michael_Scarn556 ofc, I took 3rd of 3 for my Missouri state wrestling devision one year by the way. I’m pretty much a nationally recognized athlete.
It’s scary that there are people who think the way these people do. That’s a bad trajectory for society.
No, it's good. We know it's good because I feel it will be.
This whole debate is just mind boggling. Their whole argument against Destiny can boil down:
1. We're liberals/progressives so whatever we do it's for the benefit of trans people (even if it harms more people including trans people)
2. None of them looks remotely close to someone capable of doing at least 10 push ups and we're going to talk like we know the kinds of hurdles athletes, let alone women athletes need to go through.
They also don't believe in equal rights, but believe in more civil rights for the "victim/oppressed" than for "women/oppressor", which are arbitrary labels. It's one thing to oppose discrimination against trans people. It's another thing to grant one group more civil rights at the expense of another, and claim it's "justice". That's the difference between Marxist "Equity" plans instead of Democratic "Equality". An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth doesn't make things equal, just blind and toothless.
These leftoids simply do not have any principles and want to see the world burn.
They spend the first 30 minutes calling conservatives "transphobes". How can you even be transphobic when transgenders are an imaginary concept that the left created.
Honestly I'm 21 minutes in and they sound like they never have hung around conservatives
They pretending the left don't have whole sub sections that don't like trans people
@@relaxingsounds1386Make Gender a Synonym for Biological Sex Again!
MGSBSA is a shitty acronym though...
"Women are just going to use more finesse and men will use more power"
So, we've come all this way just to come back around to sexist gender essentialism 101. Great job panel, you nailed it.
They act like this a video game
@@dbz287 that's exactly what I was thinking 😂
@@dbz287 As we all know, transitioning is basically a character respec where you get to spend all those skill points you had as a male in strength and endurance over to dex and intelligence now you're a female. Real pros know how to time transitions to optimize exp gain in each stage of life.
DEX vs STR build
@@musclenugget92 i rock climb pretty regularly, leaping has no finesse lol its definitely an easy shortcut, just have to have iron fingers but that aside it is still a gaslight, if men didnt have access to shortcuts theyd do the hard work the same as women anyway
It’s almost like these conversations are pointless when most the people on the panel can’t have a good faith argument and argue from delusion. It’s insanity.
Or most of them never played a sport in their life this is by far one of the dumbest arguments I've ever listened to it everyone in the comment section has become 45 points dumber because of it
I mean the whole "conservatives want to suicide the trans" strawman in the beginning was a pretty good indicator of the trash fire this discussion would be
Not pointless, shit-shows make more cash than good faith arguments.
@@codyb.3015 but they aren’t getting paid for this?
@@Kurotama11they are though.. you watched it, as did many others, which brings eyeballs to each persons respective UA-cam channels (the number of eyeballs will be less for some than others naturally, but still more than their channel would have garnered without this exposure).
I can only imagine a coach or Athletic trainer or anyone with a medical degree stumbling upon this.
Yeah, it’s infuriating lol
I'm a NP and this makes me so frustrated.
Doesn't take a 5 star chef to tell you a meal sucks
Listening to these males try to argue that menstruation doesn't impact females' physical performance & training capacity is intellectually painful. Many of us actually become ANEMIC during that time. Furthermore, all things being equal, being born male confers tremendous advantages in physical competition - stronger, thicker bones, larger skeletal structure, higher muscle mass, lower body fat, bigger lung capacity, straight hips, straight arms (i.e., no carrying arch which females evolved to carry babies), bigger feet & hands, longer reach, no menstruation, etc.
These guys should just be honest & say they want to eliminate sports for females & female-only spaces in favor of allowing males. Anyone who works in medicine can tell you that sex is determined at conception & is verifiable by a test at any point, even after yr demise & burial. To pretend that this isn't true, & doesn't have dramatic consequences for those born female, is like the ultimate gaslighting 🤣
I dont think they want to do that, in all likelihood they have just A. never played or watched a sport for any real time so don't actually know what the differences between men and women look like B. they are just terminally online lefties that will just double down on litterally anything they see as an argument for thier side c. all of the above.
@@watchonjar Nope. About 40 minutes or so in, one of them makes it clear they don't care if female spaces are eliminated.
This is the left in 2022 what do you expect, these people are so far gone there is no reasoning with them in fact they have declared reason "white supremacy"
Gas lighting on a mass scale 😬
The fact that the average hemoglobin for men is 14-17 gm/dl and for women 12-15 gm/dl or that more women are on iron pills due to iron def. anemia because of menstruation or that if a woman is seen with a low hemoglobin level, it is no where as alarming as a male because of menstrual cycles ....but yea, sure women just lose 2 or 3 ml of blood and call it a day. smdh
"Steven... come on..." the panel
Actually I don't know if I can watch this one, they're incredibly immature and the people that think everything they say is an "own" really makes my balls recede from cringe in to my chest cavity.
According to them, you are now able to compete against women in the Olympics. Goodluck bro. This was their plan all along. Create more femboys to dominate women in the Olympics. Based
I love MACHINE GIRL!
Dang, that’s really up in there, destiny is right though how are you supposed to have a conversation with these lunatics? I’m on the right but I sympathize with issues related to treatment of people but geez you aren’t going to win people over with that rhetoric.
Literally all that followed the righteous demand to not be interrupted since it was "my turn" to talk too
@@lancevance6346 exactly this actually made me laugh so hard
"Who cares if womens spaces go away", "women can't compete at the highest level." 2 quotes nuff said. This is crazy
not a single time did i hear an actual woman speak. Useless debate.
because they would say shes transphobic XD
Isn't destiny a woman?
@@cpu_1292 no no no silly it's a woman's name 😭
That doesn't invalidate the debate, there were plenty of legitimate reasons it was useless, but a lack of female doesn't come into it.
@@tezwah5651 Female representation is relevant for the same reason that representation of athletes would be relevant. A dialog on the subject should incorporate the relevant facts and opinions. There is a likelihood that they will bring up considerations that may be overlooked, or weigh considerations differently, or just have different opinions than the contrasting category. That's not the same thing as saying only female or athlete perspectives are valid.
Destiny has one main problem when engaging in these conversations.
He gives far to much credit with the assumption that the other panel guests have the desire or the intellectual capacity to have a nuanced conversation.
He tries to have an actual discussion and is met with ideological rambling and glassy eyed smugness.
A productive conversation under these circumstances is almost impossible, its like trying to explain how to drive a car to a glass bottle.
that's the point of pannels lmao
It's not a bug, it's a feature. I fear for the day that Destiny gets too comfortable with his stances and stops challenging them. He's searching hard for any hole that can be made in his argument, while the nine are trying to obfuscate the obvious holes in their argument. It's why I love Destiny.
The point isn't always to convince the opposition, you can convince the audience
You are giving too much credit to the liberals in this conversation as well. Who was the one that tried to make the point that women can "breach" male dominated sports by citing tennis, FUCKING TENNIS.
@@JohnYannoulas nevermind the fact that the best women in the world have had their asses handed to them by mediocre professional men.
Back as a freshmen in high school, I regularly beat a girl two years older than me who was ranked in the top 100 in the nation in basketball. She literally set records. I hadn't even finished puberty, these guys are completely clueless.
Holy shit a 14 year old is more in touch with reality than many of these guys…
I feel like this says a lot. I’m not even sure where to start but it says a lot
@@marlom7882 he actually played sports😂
No they know. But you Heard them… they don’t care.
“Fuck women’s sports” is their mantra.
They see women’s sports as therapy for trans men.
was she the only girl in the game or was it 5 boys vs 5 girls? Were any of the other players also ranked? i get the point your trying to make but i feel like the other 8 players would effect who's team won even if she was a ranked player.
@@marlom7882 basketball is kinda a weird thing to use tho cuz if the girl has a better team than the freshmen, she could beat him, even if the freshmen is better individually. ive been in amateur tournaments where teams with 1 or 2 women have won against teams of all men. because basketball is a team sport and their males were from D1 schools better than all the other teams males (who had no female players), and they knew how to shift defenses etc to compensate for their female players individual disadvantages so they won the whole tournament
Not a single woman in sight💀
Blue hair is woman
Mmhmm.
@@Upsidedownmangttrans woman*
>I was poor therefore mom took me to McDonalds therefore there's nothing I could have done to not be fat
This has to go to the top most incredibly stupid arguments ever made in a public debate.
A professional victim statement at its finest
The weight trainers at my high school lived off of mcdonalds. They would all go there after school every day and each order like 5 mcchickens 5 mcdoubles and 5 fries per person lmao and they were in crazy shape.
I've listened to a lot of dumb points over my time listening to these panels and numerous other debates, that really was right up there as perhaps the stupidest point ever made.
My fucking cousin ONLY eats McDonald’s he can’t eat anything else and he’s 6 ft 5 and insanely skinny, think scarecrow. So for that person to blame McDonald’s on being fat is incorrect
silly question but... do mcdonalds really cost less than a bag of rice or bag of buckwheat or bag of potatoes in USA?
It’s very simple Lia Thomas went from 462 nationally ranked male swimmer to nationally ranked number 1 women. Clearly a problem
No, you're not understanding my point, she placed first in her junior elementary neighborhood water slide competition at her summer camp. Obviously you're just a transphobic Republican.😂
Yup, but your transphobic if you acknowledge this
@@andrewvanderhoof2531 lmao naaa you are just logical and stating the facts
@Dyrawn exactly, your transphobic lmao 🤣
Men and women dont compete against eachother in gymnastics and they dont compete on the same boulders in climbing, I cant believe anyone would say something so blatantly false
45 minutes in and I'm going insane. This panel needs some cis women on it. All I'm getting is ignorance and general disdain from these people.
Literally nothing to be gained for them, aside from being insta-labelled as a TERF.
You spelled real wrong
Trans women ARE cis women you biggot!
@@ghad311 Ah, yes, it is REAL disdain, not merely general disdain. :)
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor they are men. Lol
As a leftie, this panel was hard to watch. Admittedly, 9 people arguing for 1 'side' is always gonna be a shit show.
People need to realise that with issues like this, 95% of people don't consider themselves on a side. They just care about what they see as important, reasonable and/or morally correct.
Bad look for the left (god I hate grouping myself in with these people).
I’d consider myself a leftist, and I’d agree with you. The problem is that so many lefties take super complex issues like this and try to act like the solution is incredibly simple because they can’t comprehend why someone might disagree, and it ends up diluting the conversation.
then dont group yourself with these people, be independent. This partisan mindset is such a rot on society. Both sides have some very cancerous views and both sides make some points.
I've always been a leftist, regardless of what people who live online and take offensive humor and lukewarm disagreements poorly may believe in my rent-free space in their heads. Welcome to the club.
@@YourReadThisWrong again why imprison yourself into the category of leftist?
@@christopherjohnson9167 it's not partisanship, that specifically refers to organised political groups.
It's about understanding that all perspectives permeate from ideology. Your apparent view of yourself as an individual 'free from the bounds of ideology' is inherently ideological. This contradiction seems to be lost within modern American philosophy. 'Rationalism' (or whatever you may call it) is just as much an ideology as left and right, just less obviously so.
Deference to historical thinkers and philosophies is not always as a result of dogmatic thinking, it can also come from the recognition that others are capable of coming to similar conclusions as you, and interpreting reality as such (perhaps in a more suscint and poetic way than oneself)
"who watches women sports" " who cares if women cant compete in top level" jeezus is this some incel panel or what
I'd throw it right back at them, who wants to watch trans women compete in womens sports? Thats an even rarer thing. Does anyone actually give a shit about trans women winning? Everyone knows its a fraudulent and unfair women and basically approved and sanctioned CHEATING. These leftists make no sense when i can debunk them that fast. Like i don't know one person not a single person in real life that wants to watch a trans women compete with women, zero interest they don't care. The only thing they care about is how unfair it is.
Yes
Nope, its a feminist panel. Easy mistake tho
The ”who watches women sports” take is rather accurate though
@Nicholas H couldn’t get a girlfriend so they became the girlfriend
Are there 5 transwomen on this panel, and 0 cis women? 🤦♀️
As someone with 15 years of competitive swimming experience, This argument of finesse versus strength is stupid. It’s an equal combination of strength and technique and all of the top performing boys on average are faster than the top-performing girls.
I feel bad for trans people, because honestly I don’t know if there actually is a solution. Life isn’t fair, all of the top performers are dealt a perfect hand in the genetic Poker game
The solution is get help. People need to stop enabling this shit.
Yeah of course there is an solution. But not if people can't think more deep about problems like that. We have to stop the catogerization in merely "man" and "womand" in sports. We need a better metric. Maybe a combination from multiple variables like weight, height,..
@@ghad311 Enabling treatment for gender dysphoria overwhelmingly supported by the medical community? Or enabling wanting to be in competitive sports?
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Or women could compete against women, and men could compete against men. Instead of changing our entire culture because it hurts their feelings.
@@ghad311 What culture do you mean exactly? Do you know how this has historically evolved? Do you know why men and woman are segregated, even in games like chess? Or are you one of these guys that think woman are worse in chess than men in general because reading data is hard?
trans women competing against females in sport has been a disaster for trans liberation
most of us just want to lead a normal quiet life as women, but all of us are impacted when some egomaniac does a stunt like this and the whole world remembers we exist in the worst way posisble
Yes, my goals were definitely to become a quiet, submissive tradcon wife, and never do anything of note. I would feel very liberated
This is just astroturfing
@@felicityc There is absolutely nothing wrong if a woman wants out of her own free will and choice to be a stay at home wife. "Never doing anything of note" is also very subjective and differs from person to person, some are just content with having a healthy family and home, others arent and thats fine. I personally wouldnt degrade it as "nothing of note".
@@felicityc you did a lot of projecting there - all this person seemed to say was that they want to lead the life of the average non celeb woman, and you read into that a whole bunch of shit lol
"trans liberation" lmfao
@@felicityc You're mad at the idea of a woman being stay at home all the time & your watching a bunch of men who literally just sit on their ass on their gamer chairs all day. LOL OKAY.
"periods dont affect your day" lmfao, this guy has never lived with a woman holy shit.
Bro how did they not get any women for this panel
They’re leftists, why would they want to ask the people it actually effects
None of these people have ever competed in anything athletically ever in their lives.
Non-athletes & anti-science...
Literally what I was thinking.
one of them competed in disc golf dude!
At least 4 of the trans people on this panel are athletes. 5 if I count the rock-climbing/disc-golf girl, lol.
@@Sinthe their delusion is even more ridiculous then. They have obviously never done competitive sports where an opponent is defending you or attacking you.
@28:40 "Destiny you're just about to get owned" that was the most soy thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
"I'm going to get diamond in league" the TRUE soy statement
Time stamp
Mad.
@@blurry3255 @28:40 I believe
@@13enwarner lmao appreciate it I needed that laugh. Mad I missed it
I'm not the biggest Destiny fan, but I was all the way team Destiny for this debate.
Also, them acting like the disc golfer being a good point of reference for professional sport was plain insulting to all sports.
im an ex-league of legends addict. am i viable for this convo lol. they would listen to me until I said men and women's sports is nominal because it used to be your gender was your sex but its actual male and female sports and there is no point in having the separation if there are dumb exceptions made lol
put some respek on disc golfing peasant!
I've said it before and I'll say it again: destiny is my favorite leftist hack, but he is still a leftist hack
look at the pool of people talking all there athletic examples was Golf, Tennis and Swimming until the black dude stepped in and said "what about basketball, Football, soccer, baseball" it basically never occurred to them poor people dominate 95% of sports contrary to what they see on there college equestrian team. the Argument that Income effects sports outcome was the most "do you even watch" circle jerk I have ever seen.
And at 1:51:37 when they were determining a max and min for sports league... again they dont even know that WOMENS sports are closed and the men actually compete in a open league... A woman is not barred from playing in the NBA, NFL, MLB (there was actually a ban from 1952-1992) the male leagues in general did not even need a provision because #1 women would not make it anyways #2 we dont have super aliens... yet so that also was not a worry
The Female Lebron James if ever a thing could exist can play in the NBA without legal issue.
THREE TEASPOONS OF BLOOD ?! 😭😭😭 this guy alone would've made me a terf.
Lol got so many upvotes and it’s that time of the month again! Yep! Hosting satan in my uterus 🩸 🔥
"What do you think edocrinological sex is Destiny?"
"Like classifying people based on their current level of their hormone profiles?"
"No, it's the effect of the hormones on them"
Absolutely classic, masterful. It really makes me think that the level of person's hormones doesn't compound the effect it has on said person's body.
What do you think punching power is?"
"Like how strong you are?"
"No it's the effect of your strength on your punches."
@@arklaw8306 "Like how strong your punches are?" would be more fitting.
@@ds2sofs Probably. it's confusing enough as is.
@@arklaw8306 I feel stunlocked each time I rewatch this debate. Really does a number on your higher brain functions.
I've noticed that this happens fairly often in his debates, someone will ask him what they perceive to be a gotcha question and then he'll answer it and they'll say no, you're wrong and then...say what he just said 🤯
No one on this panel has played a sport in their entire life
😂 exactly. Anyone who thinks it's fair for these people has never played a sport and seen the difference between the male and female body.
@@roycegarvin i was an average male high school basketball player.. I would smoke the girls at the city's college while playing against them at the school's facilities.. I should have transitioned and played women's basketball
is league of legends a sport
I’m pro trans but the sports thing is just a no win argument. It’s unfair for cis women to have to compete against trans women but at the same time I hate the idea of a segregated trans league. It’s nuanced but Most of this panel is just delusional.
That isn’t strictly true. There is no clear consensus that trans women have an inherent advantage. And even so it would differ between sports.
Some sports already have things like weight classes, so it is possible to move someone who does have an advantage up so it is more balanced.
@@ellewilliams5162 Sure, but it seems pretty clear cut. We know for a fact men have a competitive advantage over women and we know the ability to train/work out faster and towards higher peaks provides men a competitive advantage, which things like steroids represents. The question would then become how much of a competitive advantage might this translate to and what sports is it applicable to. It's not like men transitioning to women lose all their men physical stats.
If they wanna transition they are already making sacrifices, they are making themselves unnatractive women, they are gonna have to deal with transphobia, and they're gonna have to give up sports it is what it is. This is what people are signing up for when they choose to transition to fix their dysphoria. It would be great if there was a separate league but it's not happening. 🤷♂️
@@table2187 sport is important for health and life, I didn’t participate in sport because I had dysphoria. So please don’t try and talk to me about harm.
Figure what out? That isn’t how we do anything and policy will be updated as we learn more.
Look at the ioc guidelines, they acknowledge all of this
@@ellewilliams5162 I know the difference between men and women in my sport is extreme, the top 1 woman in the world would lose 10 times out of 10 against any serious male amateur. Its unfathomable to me that a year or two on HRT would totally change that, and it goes way beyond just muscle mass and average physical size. Denying this is an extraordinary claim and "lack of consensus" because people are understandibly keeping their heads down in the current climate is not going to cut it.
I swear these videos are turning me into a radical feminist.
I feel my soul draining from my body listening to these people
@@EsotericOccultist that's just life fam. Best we can do is advocate for our positions in good faith
@@EsotericOccultist never gonna happen because stupid people are too dumb to realize they're stupid
change pfp cringer
@@EsotericOccultist By not listening to them. Very few people think like them because they're clearly detached, so who cares?
fr
None of these people look like they've ever competed in a sport, never actually watched sports, never paid attention in high school biology, don't understand sports science, don't understand physiology and don't have good diets.
Steven is like two thirds to three quarters of those and is the most salient and knowledgeable person there.
EDIT 1: I also call bullshit on the one transgender person talking about rock climbing. Crimping, footwork, holds are all taught the same across genders. It's up to the _individual_ to determine variations in technical, potentially do to some of their physiological limitations (shorter fingers or arms etc). Same goes for weightlifting. We teach everyone, generally, to squat the same way. Once weight starts getting heavier and/or form begins to break, _then_ you have to figure out nuances in the _individuals_ form, which isn't really based on gender but the physiological limitations of the individual (torso and leg length, hip width etc).
EDIT 2: Holy fuck the more I listen to these people try and talk about strength, """finesse""" and how you can't have both in a sport the more angry I get from how utterly ignorant everyone here is. Everyone on this panel is a bunch of fart huffers.
Im getting my bio degree in may and was very athletic basketball player and this is exactly what i felt watching this entire debate lmao
Prime the panel host whos 30? Can't even talk to woman lol
They probably don't even watch sport on tv..
They are like children....just lower your expectations.
Lmao on your second edit, i finished watching and I couldn’t stop laughing at the person who suggested you can’t have both. The dexterity NBA players have is insane being able to find touch and balance after incredibly explosive movements. It’s actually the wnba that lacks finesse as they don’t have to face tough defenses due to there being less athleticism. And in baseball you have to be able to connect with a ball being thrown often at 98+mph.
Conclusion: i hare listening to i athletic people debate these things
9 people who have never done a lick of organised sport in their life arguing to remove womens spaces in sport is insanity. The discussion of finesse and power showed their complete lack of understanding of the level that elite athletes are at physically and technically, male or female. The period discussion was unbelievably misogynistic also
If they wanted to discuss whether periods affect training (which common sense could already give an answer to), they could have at least invited oh idk maybe a woman that experiences them?
@@NikaTheBoo I think that was a dumb point to argue about anyway though, out of all the differences between men and women in sports. The downtime women experience from periods probably isn't near the top of that list lol.
@@ragegaze3482men and woman are equal there is no advantage
@@skuzzlebutt9745are you trolling?
@@ragegaze3482 it definitely is.
Destiny, I recently found your channel.
I was a leftie (UK) but i dont recognise the left at all anymore.
Thank you so much for standing up for women in this video, we need more on the left to do this!
So much misogyny on this panel.
You need to change too conservative girl! Unless you want to be transgender vote liberal 🤮
@@skuzzlebutt9745 to*
The left, a safe and peaceful place, where we don't know anything about the groups we say we care for, we say stuff like math is racist and IDs as well because black people don't have IDs (?), we have a panel about destroying women sport without a single woman present (but inclusivity is important in movies though), we just want to remind ourselves how the other groups are fascist, misogynistic and all around hateful and make sure we're on the right side, right? right? Virtue signaling feels good doesn't it. It feels so disgusting nowadays to have lefty opinions but looking at the left I don't ever want to say I'm a leftist, they absolutely disgust me.
Here's the thing, I am also left-leaning and disagree with many of the panelists. However, that doesn't mean you should go out and vote Tory. Most people running for office are more moderate than the far-left panelists here.
hearing that person say we should seperate sports based on INCOME was fucking INSANE to me, you know how damaging that would be to poor athletes who could make it big and have their entire family helped because of the sports money they earn? its ludicrous to hear this especially as a football fan, where the majority of these sports stars grew up in the poorest areas
The guy who said he was fat because he was poor made my brain die a little bit
Lmao That dude was a classic example of a dumb person who thinks they’re smart. I assumed he was going eventually concede and admit his income argument wasn’t fully fleshed out but he just refused. Lmao The guy clearly has never played a sport or even been a fan of sports to think income is the biggest factor to how well someone will do in sports. Lmao Does the guy not understand what genetics is and how all the money in the world wouldn’t make me as good as pro footballer? 🤣
It’s funny but honestly it does piss me off bc essentially they’re willing to utterly destroy women sports as long as it gives trans the ability to compete. Only men transitioning into woman sports though, lmao not the other way around.
I get that wanted to use it as a thought experiment but in reality there's a natural separation of rich / poor. Far more average rich individuals can pursuit pro sports in their teens while only the most talented poor will do so. It depends on what sport but I know plenty of well off engineers that played in elite under 20 teams but stopped to then pursuit higher education. But having separation in childhood would be retarded.
@@hughmongos3846we're one of the only places in the world, in the entire history of our species, where our poor are more likely to die of obesity than starvation. Isn't that just wild?
@@Rotwold
The majority of nba and nfl players come from low income.
Or even from high crime areas, I mean Lebron James, Allen Iversion, Shannon Sharp, Marshawn Lynch, Ricky Williams or hell any of the ones being arrested for gun crimes or beating their girlfriends every season.
Those expensive traveling sports teams for kids hardly correlate to scholarships but don’t at all correlate to making to the pros.
Or even to improve athleticism because hyper specialization hurts athletic development especially at a very young age.
If you want to be a pro basketball or football player you’re better off just going to high school in the hood.
Bringing up a woman's cycle and how that has an impact on training was so refreshing to hear. 👏
and then just a couple of minutes later we get hit with "there's no medical reason why a cis woman can't train during her period"
@@vikkidex source: a bunch of non cis woman.
@@vikkidex literally insane. So gross to see all of these people who have clearly never even spoken to a female athlete pretending to be experts on this issue
Crazy that there's not a single cis woman on this panel that's all about cis women. Like, that's kind of fucked. (As far as I know? I'm not familiar with all of them).
Funny how it's dudes claiming it doesn't affect training when it clearly does😂.
From the side that says "you can't talk about x issues if you're not x", I feel like there is a strange lack of cis women in this discussion about female sports.
In their eyes they did have woman. Because as the panel seems to say there is no difference :^)
"I grew up poor and now I'm fat because of that." Yep, this is about the level of reasoning found on this panel with the exception of 2-3 people.
This is just baffling. Women's bodies go through hell during their period because it's basically akin to having a heart attack only in your uterus. It is the only medical condition that can have over 200 symptoms. Not saying we deserve a medal for it, but this is exactly why we need to have a separate women's space. Also, where are the women on this panel that can weigh in?
Idk but I see a lot of they/them there xD, does that count? lmao
Welcome to wokeland if you are a woman, you used to special,
They have women they just have penis and never had period cramps,
It's more about women being much weaker. If dudes had peroids, they would still completely wipe the floor with women in sports.
That was one of the most dehumanizing and despair inducing debates I have ever witnessed
Dehumanizing for who? Real women?
@@brians7100 Imagine if there was a real woman on this panel, that would have been awkward
@@brians7100 yes
@@ChuckFinelyForever they would never allow that
@@brians7100 yes
The finesse vs strength argument is literally someone arguing for like stats in an RPG LMAOOOOO
And then the Warrior comes in and 1 shots the fragile DPS as soon as they hit them
Well trans women have the inherent advantage of +10 vigor so they will be able to tank hits. That's just unfair for biological women.
I still come back to this debate 2 years later because how bat shit insane the people on this panel are. They are so confident and so terminally online yet know nothing about anything. It's truly a hilarious convo
It’s absolutely stunning. And this rhetoric has not helped their cause in the broader picture.
@@Majorwindy not did it not help, it turned out Destiny was right. Everyone knew that letting transwomen into female sports was fucking retarded. But the push to accept it made everyone second guess. It's good to see reason prevail for once.
Did this dude say that you lose 3 tablespoons of blood during your period? My god. As if all women are like that??? Um dude, we women are different.. some women's periods last 4 days, some last like 8 days, some even longer... some of us bleed heavy, some are light.. some of us retain water, have migraines.... our iron levels are typically lower.. holy shit, men don't know shit about female anatomy and physiology...we all are affected differently by our periods.. even down to our moods. wow..
One group of men deciding on pro-choice, another deciding on women's spaces. (though the women aren't much better)
I love the RPG logic of men do things with strength, while women do things with finesse. What a beautiful Dunning Kruger trans person
It's unfathomable how people can actually think like this. But I've heard it many times.
I thought women do things with magic?
@@gamingwhilebroken2355 no, no....that's only if they multiclass into cleric
@@Va11idus
I think people have the intuition that if men have some sort of advantage, women need to have some advantage to balance it out. It's a misunderstanding of evolution.
Destiny: "You should actually refute the argument instead of wrongly assuming every conservative is a bad faith actor"
Prime: "But every conservative IS a bad faith actor"
Enough said, really.
Honestly. And how many of these people on this panel joke about conservatives killing themselves? Probably all of them, without a doubt.
leftists fucking love this phrase "acting in bad faith," they throw it around even more often than they call people "grifter." it makes me cringe every time I hear it, because some of these people are literally pathological liars, but also because they are often using it in reference to conservatives in general. which is so weird because you'd think if the only reason anyone had for supporting conservative policies or identifying as a conservative was some kind of bad faith grift or other ulterior motives, then the world would look extremely different. and this is so intuitive and obvious that it's hard to see how they couldn't understand this. like, can't they see that it's plainly impossible for this to be true? and the fact that they're repeating such an obviously false statement in order to dismiss the entirety of conservative thought with a handwave makes me think _they_ are the ones "acting in bad faith." obviously if roughly 50% of the population is consistently drawn toward conservatism, there's something there that demands explanation. on the right we generally understand that conservatism and leftism are not ideologies, but rather dispositions. and of course there are various ideologies that organize the thoughts of people disposed one way or the other, but ultimately the disposition is basically ingrained in one's personality and research indicates that it's usually innate and heritable. these are just two different ways of seeing the world and one's place in it, and those variations manifest in significant differences in life history strategies that can't even remotely be chalked up to "bad faith." like the fact that conservatives donate about 2-3 times larger shares of their income to charity than leftists do. that is pretty hard to square with the thesis that the whole phenomenon of people having right-wing opinions is solely a consequence of people acting in bad faith. it makes a lot more sense on the theory that people with a conservative disposition are inclined toward traditional religion, which is the engine that drives the vast majority of middle-class charitable contributions. and it's pretty hard to believe that _every single conservative_ would make all the sacrifices necessary to be part of a traditional religion, including giving away a sizeable chunk of their income, if their only interests were selfish and deceptive.
@@ToxicallyMasculinelol It's especially weird because it feels like such an online take. Odds are good they pass by conservatives every day (if they go outside or go to work), and they're not biting the heads off of minorities, and the crime statistics for the country don't indicate mass racial hatred or hate crimes. But yet a ton of leftists believe that ALL conservatives must be racist bigots just by virtue of being conservative. Which apart from being a literal case of prejudice, of course allowed by them because the targets are fine, is weird essentialization that they'd scream bloody murder about if it was done to literally any other group ever. You can confidently say "well you know what those conservatives are like!" in relation to something awful and all you'll get is claps and yaass queens. But if you said that about lefties or any non-white, non-straight, non-christian group, you'd get murdered.
Exactly. Their ridiculous argument is solely based on assuming the other side is evil based on their own values.
I'd say way too much said. Do you even know what a bad faith arguement is? Unless you were going for a joke and not accuracy.
That trans guy was just straight up lying about Lia Thomas swimming times. He says for 1650m that the times and results were comparable after 2 years on HRT. In reality although her times reduced after HRT; She won in the men's in the IVY League but she was only ranked 89 among men in the Country. 2 years later with a one minute slower performance she won a national Championship for the Women's NCAA division 1 which is much higher than IVY League level.
I Didn’t even have to know that to know he was lying lol
Awesome to see Destiny 1v9 in something! God knows he can't do it in league.
o7
True, holy shit, what a hardstuck plat reject he is
too far lmao
o7
Was hoping he'd stick to his guns about these giant panels. Just pure cacophony most of the time.
Oh shit 1v9! The old man still got it
The fact that destiny is the only one who has an understanding of periods is sad. As well as them saying most training women don’t have their period cause you’re obviously not watching out for your peers. If you don’t get ur period there is a problem and sometimes is biological or wrong health wise please see a doctor if u haven’t
I also don’t agree with 3 table spoons of blood cause it’s not just blood it’s also tissue and lining and personally it feels and looks a lot more but I’m not gonna test that myself lol
I don’t get offended easily, but a panel of loser men brushing off the physiological effects of women’s periods made me incredibly angry.
Thank you for sticking up for women, Destiny.
I tried to listen to this while trying to fall asleep. The menstruation topic knocked all of the drowsiness away from me holy shit how do they know nothing about women?
In reference to what in particular? Because that same part got my attention. But it was because Destiny actually said something incorrect, which I don't notice happen often. Because in the extreme low body fat physiques of some female athletes can contribute to a biological environment leading to temporary irregularity or cessation of menstruation.
Yeah... that male who said menstruation is only 3 spoonfuls and doesn't impact females performance must have failed health class. He must've never seen a sanitary pad or lived with a female. To be clear: losing any body fluid for days at a time for any reason will impact physical performance. When it's menstrual fluid, it's taking a ton of iron and nutrients & often leaving us anemic.
The worst panel to fall asleep to lmao Listening to these smug morons had me enraged from start to finish
They never leave the house! This is what's wrong with society, ppl talking when they have NO clue.
Apparently they leave the house and a person wearing a conservative shirt shouts ‘ kill yourself’ every time!
I love how all these MEN who aren't in sports and aren't women or have trained in any sport talking about how things should be. Fuck me.
I love how easy they can generalize conservatives but the minute the generalization of male and female happens they all turn into full scientist and try to find every nuance possible
that whole opening debate was just dumb
"lets talk about those few conservatives that said they want Trans people to just die"
ok...
what about the Liberals who want conservatives to die?
what about the liberals who want politicians to die?
Angry dumb people say shit all the time online, why would you make that the focal point about the debate around the majority of a group of people?
Man Prime needs to get someone else to moderate. He's doing a bad job and is actually trying to keep at a topic when everyone else agreed to move on. Just be a panelist and have someone else do the moderating. I just can't take him serious at all.
Prime heavily moderates the side he disagrees with and wants to be part of the conversation too much.
Was he supposed to be moderating in this? He was actively arguing for a side every time he spoke. I assumed this was someone else's panel that he decided to join in on as a panelist
@@donniejefferson9554 nah it's his panel, he tries to gain control and directs who talks when. He just isn't an impartial moderator. That's the issue.
@@donniejefferson9554 all of his panels are like this.
I think he was alright
I was like, Ashley, Finally! An actual biological female who knows how period works and can give valuable insight into how it affects a woman's day. And then Ashley opened her mouth.... Disappointed! Lmao
I read this comment before she came on thinking “oh no the only cis woman is gonna have a dogshit argument” but was punched in the gut by that voice ☠️
biological female is redundant
@@boilermankamajiiahsley is a transgender
@@skuzzlebutt9745 ye but there is no other kind of female as it is intrinsically biological. Transgenderism supposedly only has to do with the gender
@@skuzzlebutt9745I think he knows bro
Them talking about how periods don’t affect women and I’m just here thinking about all the times I was hospitalized because of my period🥴
Yeah grown men talking about how periods dont impact women when they have no idea how it feels or the impact it has is Wild
and notice that these trans women dont experience periods, yet people are trying to use the phrase "birthing people" like anyone can give birth
@Aroko 76 Joke?
Fun fact nobody on the panel has actually had a period but theyre trying to educate destiny on how periods dont effect performance🤣
Most women aren't hospitalized because of their periods, so that's irrelevant.
Dylan saying the dude with the dog pfp is going on "Jordan Peterson ramblings" when all he's done is give mild and rational takes has got to be one of the most soy moments in this entire panel and there's a lot.
There is no good faith arguements with the left.. disagree and you get dismissed/cancelled.
Who's the Jordan Peterson wannabe? He's the only one aside from destiny that had a level head.
Dylan Burns?? When was he in this video?
It is kind of funny how they talk about this without a single CIS woman. Could you imagine a panel of all white people talking about the racism that black people suffer from in USA?
True, its just theres not a lot of women who are into debate panels😅
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen panels of white people talking about black issues though lol.
Why wouldnt people of other races, be able to talk about black peoples suffering?
Or a panel of all white people and trans racialists discussing whether "cis" black people get to keep their rights or not
People on the left do stuff like that too haha, I’m not left or right personally, but I have friends on the left and we were once in a group just chatting and the only black person in the group said they didn’t agree with other black people using the n word, and all the white people in the group proceeded to not listen to his opinion and educate him on why it’s fine for black people to use the n word.. I just sat back and observed this mess and didn’t have an opinion on it because it’s not my place and if that’s how he feels then that’s how he feels!
I'm a moderate conservative, and a dues paying member of my state GOP and I don't hate trans people, and I definitely don't want them to hurt themselves. They are individuals and ends in themselves, as all people are, and they should be treated as such.
"I never said that. That was never said. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said a conservative would usually say that. I did NOT say that it is a typical argument conservatives use." Boom check mate gotem master debater. God these people.
I wonder if listening to this shit actually has a detrimental effect on my mind lol, such inanity. Based Destiny though.
@@stephenzavatski8016 Oh, it does. I'm pretty sure smoking meth is actually better for you than listening to this crap
@@stephenzavatski8016 As long as you can still cut through the shit and don't start speaking like that in normal life, you're good. If someone says something and your first thought it "You're psychotic" then maybe you need to take a little break from the debates though.
@@stephenzavatski8016 Possibly it could do, this sort of shit is pretty toxic on the mind because its denying reality.
the poverty thing is wild to me because sports is a way that poor lads everywhere have been draging their families out of poverty for years!
Exactly the UFC fighter Francis Ngannou is a great and inspiring example of that
Very few people do this. A lot of people have also been just good enough for a rookie contract and then waste all of their money because they believe that they are better than they actually are. Far more people leave poverty by conventional means than by sports.
@@Onthebrink5it’s not just the money from pro sports. For a lot of people sports is the only way they’ll get a college degree which is beautiful.
@@pleasenobotsjd1744 A lot of college athletes get screwed because they do not move to a pro position. All while taking the easiest course load. Colleges do not care about these people. They care about attendance. Making the College more money. That is fine to make more money but if the scholarships do not help ALL athletes do better after school then they are not that valuable.
@@Onthebrink5 you made the point that more people leave poverty but conventional means rather than sports. By that I’m assuming you mean getting a college education and going into the work force. A majority of college athletes will not go pro or their sport doesn’t even have a professional scene (softball). I’m saying that college sports are a great way for people in less fortunate upbringings to get a college degree debt free. And also to say colleges don’t care about sports is flat out wrong. If all colleges cared about was money then they would only have football basketball, and volleyball (to comply with title 9) as these are the only sports that generate money for colleges.
The argument is "we can't admit that trans men have an obvious advantage, physically because then we're forced to admit that trans women aren't the same as biological woman"
And we can't have anyone knowing the truth!
This appears to be one of those problems that you're apparently "transphobic" for pointing out. You know.. one of those problems that will eventually fix itself
@@ljb8157 they're all biologically denialists and would rather allow the deluded to roam free and cause trouble rather than dealing with the problems they have.
I don’t wanna be that guy but I Remember being told that gender and sex are different. People would say “we’re not denying biology gender and sex are different” and I was like, sure whatever I guess that sorta makes sense. But now it’s like well trans women should be allowed to compete with other women and I’m over here like, wtf you guys said gender and sex were different things. Female sports is not separated by gender it’s separated by sex. It feels like everyone was playing hide the ball and I sorta feel stupid for falling for it
It’s because of the law. It’s “sexist” to draw lines for trans at because Employer was “sex-stereotype” the transwoman.
That’s the same as discriminating woman for their sex. To commit sex discrimination, one does it based on sex stereotype. Eg only man can wear pants not woman.
Here, can’t discriminate transwoman to woman sports because only man have big shoulders, big hip, big muscles would be sex stereotype.
Unless there’s a (terrible) concession or recognition of biological reality, it’s over.
They are so brainwashed they cannot realise it, keep seeing these activist conflate the two daily, it really is maddening.
I feel that making a firm line in the sand and calling it Female sports would end this debate. Transwomen aren't female. They may be women, but not female.
I've always felt the argument ridiculous and a strange hill to die on because from the moment I started hearing about gender as a social construct, I assumed sports were separated on a biological line
@@wastingmylifeaway4898 I've been hammering on about it being female sports for months, doesn't really make any difference to the activists, in fact they've taken to shifting the goalposts even more now and the rate at which they are claiming that HRT literally does change a person's sex is disturbing. They are utterly brainwashed and just dismiss data proving them wrong. Usually they just stop replying once you dismantle their bs talking points. Still, it's important to keep repeating the facts of the matter, potentially give more people the courage or whatever to start speaking up more.
Try asking them if they are claiming the female category of sports was created based on how people identify.
@@wastingmylifeaway4898 adult females are women, there's no difference. Trans women are simply trans women. They aren't women and they aren't females. Is it so hard to say 'hey this person wants to be treated as a female' instead of just flat out denying reality?
Thank you destiny for explaining periods to these idiots.
Our periods sucks and at a young age when our periods begin we have been monitory our period symptoms just cus you see a professional athlete women not ever complain about her periods publicly doesn’t mean they Aren’t being affected by it. I’ve been super tired, every part of body hurts, a
Migraine starting to develop, and emotional during work but I never show it but as soon as I get home I freakin cry and put on pjs and go to sleep for hours.
This is something that each women had to develop a thick skin in order to function when doing rigorous activities.
Then we have the layer of social stigma. Like the anxiety and embarrassment of staining your clothes, not fitting into clothes, emotional moments, smells, not having napkins/tampons as asking other girls for one, being put down because of our periods.
Then there is the deeper stuff hormone Imbalance, over bleeding, pcos, never getting periods, low iron, pain where you can pass out, depression, bi polar symptoms due to periods, becoming infertile.
damn, new dysphoria unlocked ):
@@personalaccount7811 What
Wow women got it tough unironically. I've conceptualized and dealt with some of these symptoms with my ex and others with my sisters, but never all of them at once and when you put it that way, that shit is rough. Thanks for the elucidation on the subject for my own knowledge. I'll be more sensitive when dealing with women on their periods (not that I was an asshole before).
Literally billions of dollars in our economy are lost each year due to menstruation, bc females are ill and unable to work to our peak capacity during that time. Hearing this panel try to argue that a period is only 3 spoonfuls (have they never seen a sanitary pad?! 🤣) & doesn't impact our performance was intellectually painful. None of these males should have a platform if they're going to spout such misogynistic bs
We are also taught at a young age to never talk or complain about our periods. I do now lol well only to people I’m comfortable but I think now it’s more talked about…sort of. Like I just found out young girls have period parties…like that pretty cool lol
"we're not discussing men and women, we're discussing women and women." Ah yes, into the byways of reason we go yet again.😂
Holy shit I was getting so triggered about their talk about "finesse" vs "strength" in sports. This is literally just an argument of form. In golf, there's plenty of people who will sacrifice form vs power. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you cannot increase BOTH.
They really don't get it the refinement of power is finesse because you master and control the power you have. Like how it was an old meme of Football players taking ballet to help them become more limber and understand how to shift weight without injury.
its the video game mindset of being quick and nimble or big and strong, as if the real world doesnt allow for both.
@@ethanelephants4740 exactly what I was thinking, like STR and DEX builds.
They just haven't played any sports. Golf requires a ton of finesse
Men have more "finesse" anyways. The best bowlers, billiard players, darts players, etc are still men.
Should maybe have some biological women in here to talk about female biology, would be good.
There are literally periodization programs around menstrual cycles, to optimize training for elite athletes, because having periods reduce the effectiveness of training that much. A lot of these arguments on this panel are absolutely absurd and not based in science.
Trans women in sport is just unfair. If you don't comprehend that you're living in some alternate reality. Trans league is the way to go.
Having an actual woman there would mean that trans woman arnt actual woman or they believe that's what it means. Whatever side of the isle you're on you can't just ignore how the human body works.
I don't know how people get this dumbass idea. Being a woman tells you about ONE person's periods. Your own. You can get the same as a dude by asking one woman.
If anything they should have someone on, who asked MANY women about their periods and read some statistics.