If the writers of this show were good at their craft then it shouldn't have mattered if Rhoda was single or married. They should have been able to come up with good storylines no matter what. Watching Rhoda and Joe split up was heartbreaking. A lot of people could relate to Rhoda and so they were rooting for her to have a happy life. It gave them hope they could as well. Having them split was a bad choice and messed up the show.
Well put. The writers should have been up to the challenge and not stuck just because they can only think of women in terms of married or not. It should not have mattered, just like it doesn't matter for shows with male leads.
Fell in love with her on The Mary Tyler Moore show Rhoda show was the icing on the cake! Takes me back to my childhood. Thank you for the memories! God Speed Valerie Harper You’ll be missed! ♥️
I still remember exactly where I was standing when i got the news she'd passed. I quietly cried right in the middle of Michael's Craft Store by the seasonal decor, I think it was baskets and lanterns.
Season Two ended with Rhoda and Joe virtually in the same costumes, getting along great; Season Three opens with them separating. I guess the writers wanted to keep the issues current with the times (the 70s saw divorce in sudden record numbers) but this was sad and it totally changed the trajectory of the series. A lot of people disapproved of Joe, but for him to suddenly become cold and hostile with no clear motivation is a bit frustrating in retrospect.
Joe's sudden shift was not so sudden, it was a long time in coming. It happened to me and to my ex-husbands sister in law at different times. Sometimes we finally only realize the wrong choice we made when we stop trying to convince ourselves that those gnawing doubts don't mean what they actually do.
Joe flashed his temper many times in the first two seasons, and sometimes came across as selfish and boorish. So I don’t agree that Joe was acting entirely out of character in Season Three.
This is one of my favorite episodes, the part about Joe not taking any suitcase, because she couldn't take it. I truly get it. Time goes by so quickly, I'm now 65.I recall those so well, with a smile and a little sadness, cause Valerie has gone, and Mary. I enjoy the reruns. I'm glad I was around those times. BOTH MARY AND VALERIE... R. I. P
I think that it was not unfortunate that she had a more modern approach in life and marriage. . Women need not be barefoot and pregnant in order to be happily married. Besides, the 70s was a transitional era for women and men. In any effect, I was in elementary school when this came out. I liked it then and I understand it now. She was excellent and it was a great show. Don't make them like this anymore.
Nancy Walker shines in this episode. The final scene between her and Rhoda is moving and real. Two superlative actresses on their top form. R.I.P, ladies. 😢
Say what you will about the plausibility, likability, or lack of supposed chemistry between Rhoda and Joe, the performances in this particular episode broke my heart.
The separation and later divorce between Rhoda and Joe, I feel, caused the early demise of the show. After the divorce became final and Joe left, "Rhoda" lost part of its charm...and audience.
It could have been handled better for sure. Such a letdown that Rhoda, who wanted nothing more than the security of being married, had to endure yet another relationship failure. The goofs and oddballs she dated on MTM Show provided a good portion of the humor of her and Mary's evening talks. That there was no Mary equivalent on the show didn't help either.
Yes, this was such a sad moment. I ached for Rhoda because she loved Joe so much, believed in the sanctity of marriage and its tradition. Unfortunately, though Rhoda had modern values, she learned that in era of women's growing empowerment, the traditional hero in shining armor, the white picket fence, and the happily ever after does not always happen for Joe, as the hero, could not play the part well enough to commit. I wish Joe had spoken up early in their relationship. But then, the show would not have been what it had been - the growing and maturation of Rhoda and her family as they dealt with adult issues and life. Thank you, Valerie!!! I was a teenager when the show first aired. Coming back, now as an adult, made everything so clear. You did a marvelous job, along with everyone in the cast. It was a great moment in time that will never be forgotten. RIP!!!
Add me to the list of people who thought it was a terrible idea to have Rhoda and Joe break up. It is not like David Groh wanted to leave the show so the writers came up with the divorce idea. Here is another perfect example of: If it works, don't change it!
If the writers were bent on a break up, I really wished they would have done a "they married too soon, took a break, realized they loved each other then got back together." sort of thing. That could have worked. Ultimately, I think the writers made a huge mistake marrying Rhoda and Joe of SO SOON. We had to get used to Rhoda in a new place, with a new job and with a new man all at the same time. Just as we get used to that, they break them up. It really did deal a fatal blow to the show IMO.
Valerie Harper explained the divorce decision in interviews years later. She said that the writers complained that Rhoda's marriage limited their ability to think of story lines for her. They said they'd be forced to continue writing about Brenda and her dating struggles (something they used to do for Rhoda on MTM), and she said that she didn't mind. They finally put their foot down in season 3, and the separation (and subsequent divorce) became part of tv history. It ruined the show for most.
It was a terrible choice. We knew Rhoda's struggles to find a nice man and, for the first two seasons, that is who Joe was. Then they turned him into a short-tempered, unreasonable boob. It was not fair to any of the characters.
Had they not broken up, the series would have most likely crumbled and died (during or right after this season). It was stagnating horribly. I am one of the few members of "The Glad They Split Up Club". So, why am I glad? Look at Mary Richards. They never had her settle down, get a husband. She rarely had a steady beau. And the show thrived. They always had fun stories for her character. Then in "Rhoda" they should have kept Rhoda single, that was their big mistake. There are so many more comedy opportunities there. It's amazing to me when I see all the backlash and dislike from viewers about this relationship ending. It feels like a big chunk of the audience who watched (or watches) it wanted a happily ever after-- even if meant a boring show with a boring couple. And that's cuckoo when you think about it. Life isn't always happy and smooth. And comedy, if we remember, is not about happiness and success; what's funny is loss and failure and unhappiness. There are worse things, folks, than a single woman, or a single person. Maybe psychologically you needed Joe and Rhoda to stick together for reasons of your own. That's your beeswax/baggage. But for the series, it wouldn't have worked. This sitcom struggled enough without the great writers and cast of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show". The only good things in "Rhoda" besides Harper was Kavner as Brenda and Music as Carlton-- plus the occasional appearance of Nancy Walker. That's not a lot to keep a show going. Leaving Rhoda and Joe together would've been like buying the show's tomb stone.
@@eduardo_corrochio I can't imagine why anyone would be glad they split up. They could have created plenty of storylines with them still married. Eventually they would've had a baby. Look at I Love Lucy. They were married and had plenty of funny storylines. It made no sense to have them divorce after only two years. The show went downhill after that.
@@trawlins396 I respectfully differ. First, a show doesn't have to have a married couple to be good or funny. You seem to be under the impression that, in sitcoms, marriage = success and guaranteed comedy. Comedy can work in any situation if the writing is good and the characters are enjoyable and relatable. There have been quality series where the two leads couldn't stand each other much, as well as successful programs in which the couple is divorced from the get-go (and are either seething enemies or good buddies). Moreover, babies often get in the way of a show rather than improve it: Little Ricky, Pebbles Flintstone, and so on. Aside from cuteness and a temporary ratings lift, what does an infant bring to the production? And the sitcom suddenly becomes "the baby show" ... until they hopefully/finally get back in their old groove and stop focusing on the kid. To be fair, one baby that was an interesting addition to a sitcom was Joey on "All in the Family", because of the conflicts that rose between his grandpa Archie and his parents Mike and Gloria. That show didn't become a temporary "baby show"; instead it incorporated Joey into some of the stories once in a while rather than have him dominate things. Back to "Rhoda": I believe the show would have failed whether the couple stayed married or broke apart. But I have no way of knowing if that would have happened had they remained together. Rhoda and Joe were dull for me, the type of characters (or straight men, to coin an old showbiz phrase) who need outstanding strong supporting cast members to do the real comedy. The series wasn't bad-- though it often came close, especially when they focused on a character like Nick the accordion playing jerk who talked like Fonzie. Overall "Rhoda" was a lackluster spinoff (and that's surprising since it branched off from such a sharp and hilarious and charming sitcom that was "The Mary Tyler Moore Show"). Sorry I went on at such length. :)
If you notice, David Groh is crying at the end of the separation scene when he says, "Take care of yourself, babe." Damn, that's such a raw and realistic scene. I'm still traumatized by it, almost 40 years later!
"Take care of yourself" is a jacka*ss line of hypocrisy from someone abandoning you and their vows. "I'm buggering off, but let me virtue signal like I care as I leave."
I read I think it was David Grohs own book that he personally took the powers that be writing him out of the series very hard.He went to them asking for a reconsideration but they said no.it just wasn't meant to be that Rhoda would stay married and the series fell apart shortly after his depart sure.
I always liked Valerie Harper, and I was saddened by her death. She was a cancer victim, but continued to act up until she couldn't work anymore. It really was a shame she passed away too soon. Both of my parent's died from cancer, it's a terrible death. I'm never going forget the devastating effects of cancer. I wish, I could forget about it, but when I lost my Mom and Dad, it really was the most painful experience of my life.
Nancy Walker was nominated for an Emmy in the Outstanding Single Performance by a Supporting Actor in a Comedy or Drama Series category for her work on this episode.
Poor Rhoda. She deserved better than this creep. From the first time they met, he had an anger management problem. Now he has a midlife crisis in his 30's. Wish the series could have had a happy ending, but it should have never included Joe from the beginning.
I remember how the bicentennial year was constantly promoted in ads for anything & everything. To hear it mentioned brought back memories of patriotic 1976.
This is the saddest episode of Rhoda ever filmed. I cried when Joe walked out on Rhoda. How could you walk out on Rhoda? The best looking woman in the world. Great acting between Val and David, they made it very real! The best scene was between Rhoda and Ida when Rhoda said "Ma stick around." Nancy Walker is a gem!
I remember when this episode aired. I remember how I felt when he said to her he wasnt happy. I remember when she said "Oh Joe". I was so happy for them and then he left. I know it was only a show but it really bothered me at the time.
It's bad when a sitcom becomes more like a soap opera. I love "Friends" but the Rachel and Ross nonsense became so important in the show, it drove me batty. I wanted funny situations, not romantic entanglements and melodramas. Will they, won't they, they're on, they're off, etc, ad infinitum. Awful, and it's manipulative and cheap writing at it worst. Shame the writers decided to give Rhoda a major relationship in the first place.
Daring move, but the wrong move. This show should have lasted as long or longer than MTM. Nancy Walker should not have left the show either. Especially when the writers decided to split them up. Just a shame for such a great character! We love you Valerie, RIP, kid!
"Rhoda" was mediocre compared to the series it spun off from. Like night and day. The MTM show sparkled, made us fall in love with the cast and with that sharp writing. But _this_ show overall comes off as a dismal wannabe. I'm surprised it lasted five seasons.
@@eduardo_corrochioMTM was not always sparkling. Especially in the last year. I liked season 3, 4 and 5 the best. While still good by season 6 MTM had aged dramatically from the previous year and then they hooked her up with Ted Bessell and it was all wrong.
@@lorraineb.4698 Oh, you're right. I had forgotten how much the series slumped in goodness after season 4! And I actually forgot that TMTMS lasted seven years; they should have stopped after four or five. After Rhoda's and Phyliss's departures, there were still some good episodes (like "Mary's Delinquent" in which she becomes a Big Sister to Mackenzie Philips) but it was nowhere near the fun and wit of the first three seasons. But such is sitcom history; you have some highs and also some lows. I have the dvd sets of seasons 1-4. Can't remember if I just didn't want the other years or if the studio stopped releasing seasons. So many shows have had partial disc releases, it's ridiculous.
Marrying Rhoda off was a big mistake. Just like in present day with "The Big Bang Theory" -that show is now a huge bore since all the lead characters got married or into serious relationships.
Marriage is not boring. What's boring is endless rounds of dates that don't work out and insta-sex that fizzles. Happy marriage requires you to abandon that boring inability to grow up, and become a lot more complex and interesting.
I remember this episode very well. My heart broke for Rhoda. Her acting was superb. They should have never broken them up. Still affects me to this day and it's only a tv show.
I loved David and Valerie's relationship as Joe and Rhoda. The best acting chemistry and the most outstanding writing for them. Once in a lifetime writing👍 Rest in Peace Valerie Harper, Nancy Walker and whoever else that has passed on😔
They should have kept her single. At least until the final season. They had so much to work with - being single living in NYC in the 70s. Plus she was in the art world - put her in a magazine; a dept store; interior decorating. Still it last 4 1/2 seasons.
kgmaj I was feeling the same way. I've been watching all the MTM shows again, and then I came here. I wanted to see more of the Rhoda I fell in love with...I wanted her to stay single at least for a full season. The whole show, while delicious, seems to be all about their struggle
First of all, there was no way the writers could have known how long the show would last. Secondly, they had to differentiate the show from its parent show with Mary Tyler Moore. So having Rhoda marry in the second half of the first season was a way to do that.
Groh never expressed an interest in leaving the show. It was the 'pencil pushers' at the network, along with some big shots behind the scene that felt the show should revert back to Rhoda being single. Bad mistake all over!
I think the problem is that David Groh simply was NOT FUNNY. Ron Silver WAS funny... they should have introduced him, had them date, and have Rhoda eventually marry Gary.
@@brockreynolds870 You mostly hit the nail on the head when you say "He was not funny". I kind of agree. I always felt - even while watching as a teenager - that there was something missing in David Groh's performances. Joe seemed out of sync emotionally with Rhoda. And the actor David Groh seemed out of his depth when it came to performing with the extraordinarily talented Valerie Harper. So much so that I felt compelled to search and try to find real time reviews of Groh's performance as Joe. While I felt the part was miscast, I was unable to dig up very much until - just today - I found revealing quotes from one of the "Rhoda" producers, Alan Burns. His thoughts about David Groh performing as Joe follow. I agree with everything Alan said. Allan Burns: "We made what I think was a bad choice in casting with Joe. He was a good actor but he didn’t have those comedy rhythms and chops he needed to keep up with Valerie. Valerie is very generous and a very nice lady. She’s pretty easy to work with. I think this was probably the first divorce in television history that was because they were comically incompatible. That was the reason for their divorce. We tried keeping him on for the whole process of the divorce instead of just cutting it off. I think it was sad to have her have to admit defeat. That the character wasn't going to work. I don't think Valerie took any joy in David Groh being let go. It hurt David deeply. It hurt her, and it hurt all of us, but she realized that it wasn't working." SOURCE: Funny You Should Ask: Oral Histories of Classic Sitcom Storytellers, by Scott Lewellen
I dont know about anyone else is because Nancy walker I always know she died a long time and I associate her with Macmillian and wife. David Groh I always forget that he died (my hunk of man ) and Harold Gould I really dont remember him except for time to time sitting on the couch
That part made me so mad with Joe! Then he negotiated again at some unheard of conditions. They were denied the second time. “Well it wasn’t meant to be,” screw you Joe!!!
I watched this when it originally aired. The writers decision to have Rhoda and Joe split ruined the show in my opinion. They never really did explain the reason.
happy4926 bad writers with no imagination! They were stupid created a storyline by getting her married, then couldn’t figure out creative storylines after her character got married? Never saying why Joe was so bent of leaving Rhoda (another woman, boredom, want to be single again ) something they could work on. Worst writers
I agree. Lazy writers, apparently unable to advance a storyline into the complexities of marriage, or the ways it works. That's been true of SO MANY tv shows. Or, it might be even worse than lazy writing. It seems like there's been a decades-long agenda in tv to actively destroy marriage and family. Look at the Mary Tyler Moore Show as one of many examples. The repeated message on MTM was that marriages never work. Breakup after breakup, flirtations, real and fantasized infidelity, contempt, boredom... Enough to scare you off. Also, series after series featuring single parents, or people over 30 still unmarried. It's TIRESOME.
Yes, that's what I thought. And he had no sense of humor. But he was sexy and Rhoda really 'wanted to be marrid (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose).' ;)
I absolutely agree. Joe stayed mad throughout his entire run on this show. Some say the divorce was sudden, but I think it was always on it's way to this. Joe is like many straight men. Being single was still viewd as being emasculating to many men back in the 70's to say nothing of their need to have a mother in their life at all times. Women never seemed to have that issue as much in spite of their role as housewife in many marriages. Women want a partner in life more than a daddy figure.
While I can appreciate the problem the writers faced in coming up with stories, even as a 10 year old the split made no sense. 36 years later it still fails to convince. While it may have revitalized the writing staff, season 3 saw Rhoda fall out of the ratings top 30.
I think he told her when he offered to live together. Rhoda said she wanted to be married. If I remember it seemed like an ultimatum. That's when they got married.
@Suzanne Girard she set a standard and he told her he could live up to it. She was ready to let him go and he should have let her go if that wasn't what he wanted
The writers were having trouble coming up with stories for Rhoda. By having her get married so early in the series, they felt the character had lost the spark that made her popular. I agree the storyline was depressing and really killed the series in my opinion. It was never quite the same even when she was single again.
They should have waited for Joe and Rhoda to get married until the middle of the 2nd season -- they married her off too soon. The show went downhill when Joe left - it also didn't help that CBS gave up on the show and moved it's timeslot.
I guess the network didnt have enough confidence in Valerie Harper. She had a big following from her time on the Mary Tyler Moore show that they didn't need a gimic for views. If I remember correctly the wedding drew big ratings.
I dont know what generation you are but I hope you enjoy it as much as those of us who saw it as it was released. Give Mary Tyler Moore a shot and then Phyllis. Lou Grant was a show but not like theirs. If you haven't seen them already. 😊 The 70s were great. The styles which are back somewhat. It was a nicer time .
The late David Groh ("Joe") said that after the separation/divorce of the characters he was screamed at on the street and at restaurants etc for causing the end of the marriage.
I just viewed this again and have to ask the same question: why is it when things get rough or rocky, the quickest solution (to dissolve the relationship) seems the best? I don't know exactly when this trend began, but it sure hasn't ultimately helped a whole lot of folks for the better.
The show's ratings were dropping after Rhoda got married. Seems viewers liked the single Rhoda better than the married Rhoda. That's why the breakup with Joe came out of the blue.
I first noticed it in the early 1970s, when miserable women in marital hell decided enough was enough and bolted. Sadly, the years between I do and I'm leaving became ever shorter. Now, immaturity and choosing poorly are the biggest reasons for bailing, from my viewpoint.
True, the first and best solution today is to just give in and break your vows or promise? Why make it if you. Reak it at the first opportunity or hurdle?
This episode definitely was a tear jerker. Why did Rhonda get married in the first place? Joe had been married once before... It's sad that this happened.
Who else is here in 2021???? Watching this show for the first time in my life. 💖Just got up to this episode...😔😢 Had a similar conversation with my Mom years ago,& she gave me the courage to make a fresh start. Great show!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
What crazy about watching these old episode of one my fav shows is I remember when I was younger I wanted to be rhoda but now that I'm grown and have a 20yr daughter I find that I'm Ida inside and out! ^_^
Valerie Harper turned in a powerful performance in this episode. It was a bad move marrying Rhoda off immediately especially to an actor she was not compatible with. Valerie and David Groh was not compatible as husband and wife.This is the first show in history where we see a couple meet, date, get engaged, married, go through married life, separate and divorced. We saw Rhoda's life go in full circle.
The truth was that the Show began to lose it's steam, people didn't like Joe, in fact Joe appeared on episode 1. Some viewers just didn't like Rhoda being married. So, they didn't develope Joe's character beyond what he was, in fact they made him in to an asshole!
The problem with the Rhoda show was Rhoda. The character was great on the MTM show. A brash, abrasive person who delivered punchlines. Mary was more or less the straight man (lady?). One who reacted to the antics of the others. More than that, she was a role model for viewers to emulate. The best sitcoms like van Dyke, MTM, MASH, Newhart, Barney Miller etc have a central character that is "the mensch" - a person of integrity that everyone admires. The producers and writers of Rhoda tried to fix the show by changing Rhoda's situation but they really needed to change Rhoda. Note: I waited to post until I finished viewing all of the shows. There are many episodes worth seeing, but the series just suffers from the fatal flaw of the central character not being mature enough.
The MTM producers made another mistake with "Phyllis" in 1975. Cloris Leachman was excellent in the MTM show, but the character Phyllis Lindstrom was not spinoff material.
I felt there was a great deal of chemistry. At least in the beginning. I never understood why they split up. I think the whole marriage was rushed into. Joe wasn't ready to get married again and, Rhoda, in a way, pushed him. I hated their break-up. It did ruin the show.
Growing up as a young lad in England in the 1970`s, I was in love with Valerie Harper; but watching this now, I realise that I didn`t notice how adorable Julie Kavner was/is.
I never liked the Simpsons I think Julie was slumming even though her Marge character expanded her career.I still haven't seen one full episode of the simpsons and proud of it
what's interesting is if you really watch the episodes up to him leaving you can see him more & more feeling trapped... like he didn't want to get married... like the marriage was a strain on him
Rhoda, here's the thing. Joe did not want to marry you so quickly. You pushed him into it. He told you this, but you didn't want to listen, because you wanted to be married so badly. Or else, this is just the direction the writers wanted the show to take.
It hurt me to see Rhoda so hurt by her and Joe's separation. She truly loved Joe and made a huge effort to make her marriage work. Yes, she depended on her family a lot but they were her support network. The show showed how Rhoda evolved after returning to New York. Finally, the show was and is about Rhoda, the days in the life of Rhoda. With or without Joe, Brenda and her suitors, her mother and father, her and Joe's extended family members, and co-workers, the craziness of life could not have been more exemplified in this show. We also saw how the times changed which is mirrored in the relationships of Ida and Martin and Rhoda and Joe. This is also seen in Brenda who chooses to be an independent woman rather than a direct-to-marriage after graduating high school kind of woman. But, Rhoda grows from this despite her pain. It was touching to see how her mother wanted to be there for her to ease her pain and Rhoda is mature enough to accept it. Valerie was wonderful as Rhoda. Smart, sassy, supportive, and beautiful. A true New Yorker!!! There will never be another like you. RIP.
Truly one of the saddest moments on TV for me ever. I was in school and growing up near where Rhoda’s parents were supposed to have lived in the Bronx. All of us in my grade school class could barely concentrate the day Rhoda got married. We followed each episode because “Rhoda” was ours. We could identify with it. I remember being so devastated watching this episode. Little did my tender heart know how “real life” all this was.
I read that the reason they split up. Was because they ran out of story line. The other reason everybody thought Rhonda was better when she was free single.
Joe never wanted to get married again. He was explicit about that. Rhoda completely ignored the red flags and pressured him into it. Why? Because she was playing out her mother's script. Say what you want, a lot (not all) of marriages start like that. I actually liked the third season -- Joe's dematerialization was surreal, and Anne Meara's and Ron Silver's characters were hilarious. But the show became unwatchable in Season 4. It degenerated into a cheap sitcom.
Even though Joe & Rhoda were so wrong for each other the writers who thought them separating was a great idea were sadly underestimating the viewers ! Had they never separated, maybe had a kid, this show would have run 7-8 years & be in the top 10.
How could any man divorce Rhoda? The show got stale after they separated and finally divorced. The best way to see Rhoda is on MTM and the first 2 seasons of Rhoda!
Harper & Walker in the greatest Tear-inducing scene in sitcom history, IMO....Chekhovian in its scope. Nancy Walker saying “I love you Rhoda- don’t shut me out” the Best
Never thought Rhoda and Joe belonged together...they always felt forced...either bad writing or no chemistry between the characters. Really liked Valerie Harper though.
I never once heard that bum say anything loving or reassuring or supportive to his wife. If she was ever scared or insecure about anything it was his job to do something about it... very hard to watch.
+Robert James I agree... he was a jack ass. I don't know why the writers decided that Rhoda would marry someone with his character. Rhoda was a very smart woman, didn't make sense.
I disagree. There were times Joe was a jerk but there wee times he was supportive. There were many times that Rhoda got on my last nerve. Just like in this episode, I'm 12 minutes in, she acted so immaturely. If someone is insecure that is something they have to work on themselves. It is at the person's core.
Well, Joe sure did turn into a jerk! But I have to disagree with you. Joe was always telling Rhoda to stop being so insecure, sometimes very sweetly, other times, annoyed. But he always did
Telling someone 'Don't be so insecure' is not the same as being so attentive and loving that they grow into security because they are SECURELY LOVED. It was stupid of the writers to make Rhoda go backwards to her 'fat Rhoda' persona and get all insecure any time Joe was moody. That was bad writing. But it was also bad writing to have Rhoda married to such a self-absorbed guy who was only about HIS 'feelings'.
Over 40 years later I still like Rhoda's Bohemian-style apartment!
Me too!!!
Me three 🤣
I clicked on because her apartment reminded me of her original apartment.
@@GwenPidgeon ?? They are nothing alike besides a few colors! This one is huge compared to the Minneapolis attic.
I do too. I hate the blandness of today's decor
The incomparable Nancy Walker. She could make you laugh and cry so easily. Gifted actress, gifted comedienne.
Valerie Harper was so beautiful.
If the writers of this show were good at their craft then it shouldn't have mattered if Rhoda was single or married. They should have been able to come up with good storylines no matter what. Watching Rhoda and Joe split up was heartbreaking. A lot of people could relate to Rhoda and so they were rooting for her to have a happy life. It gave them hope they could as well. Having them split was a bad choice and messed up the show.
Well put. The writers should have been up to the challenge and not stuck just because they can only think of women in terms of married or not. It should not have mattered, just like it doesn't matter for shows with male leads.
Agreed.
Their separation was way too abrupt. Not having Nancy Walker impacted the series badly, too.
@@travisjames3517 agree. their characters as a married couple were perfect. It made no sense for them to divorce after only two years.
@@trawlins396
It was Valerie Harper.
She felt the characters being married were becoming boring.
RIP Valerie Harper - One of my favorites.
Fell in love with her on The Mary Tyler Moore show Rhoda show was the icing on the cake! Takes me back to my childhood. Thank you for the memories! God Speed Valerie Harper You’ll be missed! ♥️
I just loved her. RIP 🌹
I still remember exactly where I was standing when i got the news she'd passed. I quietly cried right in the middle of Michael's Craft Store by the seasonal decor, I think it was baskets and lanterns.
Joe always reminded me of Tom Jones..anybody else ever pick up on that???
Sooo cute
I did Noel.
Yep
Tom Jones with a bad attitude perhaps? I don’t like him for Rhoda though, she’s a great gal and he’s a shmuck!
Now that you mention it....😍
Season Two ended with Rhoda and Joe virtually in the same costumes, getting along great; Season Three opens with them separating. I guess the writers wanted to keep the issues current with the times (the 70s saw divorce in sudden record numbers) but this was sad and it totally changed the trajectory of the series. A lot of people disapproved of Joe, but for him to suddenly become cold and hostile with no clear motivation is a bit frustrating in retrospect.
Joe's sudden shift was not so sudden, it was a long time in coming. It happened to me and to my ex-husbands sister in law at different times. Sometimes we finally only realize the wrong choice we made when we stop trying to convince ourselves that those gnawing doubts don't mean what they actually do.
What about when rhoda ditched joe to hang out with mary
I remember being really upset about their divorce.
What the hell was buying a house thing!!!!! Anyway
Joe flashed his temper many times in the first two seasons, and sometimes came across as selfish and boorish. So I don’t agree that Joe was acting entirely out of character in Season Three.
The scene with Rhoda and her mother was so heartbreaking and sweet. It was so wonderful I felt like crying myself.
Same Here... There's nothing like a Mother's Love!
it was well written... heartbreakingly so
That scene nearly made me cry. 😭😭😭😭
I did cry! Im a sap
Same here. It almost broke me. Actually it did 🥺
This is one of my favorite episodes, the part about Joe not taking any suitcase, because she couldn't take it. I truly get it. Time goes by so quickly, I'm now 65.I recall those so well, with a smile and a little sadness, cause Valerie has gone, and Mary. I enjoy the reruns. I'm glad I was around those times. BOTH MARY AND VALERIE... R. I. P
I think that it was not unfortunate that she had a more modern approach in life and marriage. . Women need not be barefoot and pregnant in order to be happily married. Besides, the 70s was a transitional era for women and men. In any effect, I was in elementary school when this came out. I liked it then and I understand it now. She was excellent and it was a great show. Don't make them like this anymore.
Nancy Walker shines in this episode. The final scene between her and Rhoda is moving and real. Two superlative actresses on their top form. R.I.P, ladies. 😢
Very moving and convincing performances from Valerie and Nancy!!
When Rhoda breaks down and say “Ma, stick around”, it gets me all weepy.
Nancy was an amazing actress. Same with Valerie
That got me!!!!!
It hit me very hard 🥺
Say what you will about the plausibility, likability, or lack of supposed chemistry between Rhoda and Joe, the performances in this particular episode broke my heart.
The separation and later divorce between Rhoda and Joe, I feel, caused the early demise of the show. After the divorce became final and Joe left, "Rhoda" lost part of its charm...and audience.
Agree
It could have been handled better for sure. Such a letdown that Rhoda, who wanted nothing more than the security of being married, had to endure yet another relationship failure. The goofs and oddballs she dated on MTM Show provided a good portion of the humor of her and Mary's evening talks. That there was no Mary equivalent on the show didn't help either.
Amen
Can’t believed I’m watching this shit show, yet again, rom “Mary Tyler Moore” 70’s throw up Norman Lear decade
@@msr1116 divorcees are more likely to go through it again
"Dont do this to me!" Omg! Even my heart broke!😭😒 Poor Rhoda.😭😭
Yes, this was such a sad moment. I ached for Rhoda because she loved Joe so much, believed in the sanctity of marriage and its tradition. Unfortunately, though Rhoda had modern values, she learned that in era of women's growing empowerment, the traditional hero in shining armor, the white picket fence, and the happily ever after does not always happen for Joe, as the hero, could not play the part well enough to commit. I wish Joe had spoken up early in their relationship. But then, the show would not have been what it had been - the growing and maturation of Rhoda and her family as they dealt with adult issues and life.
Thank you, Valerie!!! I was a teenager when the show first aired. Coming back, now as an adult, made everything so clear. You did a marvelous job, along with everyone in the cast. It was a great moment in time that will never be forgotten. RIP!!!
AGREED!!!
The emotion was so real and so raw I felt like it was happening to me, brought me to tears, brilliant actress
It nearly made me cry. 😭😭😭😭
He never looked happy,he always gave the impression that he felt trapped
Well, She trapped Him!!!
He seemed abusive.
@@SACHKIGAL The writers!!
The way the proposal was written I could understand why
He never wanted to get married he wanted to live with her
Add me to the list of people who thought it was a terrible idea to have Rhoda and Joe break up. It is not like David Groh wanted to leave the show so the writers came up with the divorce idea. Here is another perfect example of: If it works, don't change it!
I love Rhoda's mother! She hits him with her purse.... lol!! Nancy Walker, oh my gosh she is the best.
I agree Nancy Walker is the best
And then she says Joe is suffering.
She was so funny
I don't!
@@Kat.Evangeline14 I agree!Me either.
Rest In Peace Ms Valerie Harper.
She live a happy life ,we will never forget her,
Brenda, darling, don't worry! You'll find a nice guy named Homer. You'll settle in a town called Springfield and have three ...interesting kids.
Ay Carumba!!
Nancy Walker! What an actress!!!
I. Hated when Rhoda and joe broke up that was sad 😭
The writers should have kept them together
Me personally I always hated Joe I was so glad when this happened....RHODA was WAY TOO GOOD for him
@ Exactly. The breakup made ZERO sense to me. They were a perfect couple.
@ Joe wanted more doe
@@trawlins396 why return Rhoda to her former life without evolution and increasing her insecurity. Bad, bad decision.
If the writers were bent on a break up, I really wished they would have done a "they married too soon, took a break, realized they loved each other then got back together." sort of thing. That could have worked. Ultimately, I think the writers made a huge mistake marrying Rhoda and Joe of SO SOON. We had to get used to Rhoda in a new place, with a new job and with a new man all at the same time. Just as we get used to that, they break them up. It really did deal a fatal blow to the show IMO.
Agree. They should've married them in season 2, not 1.
@@trawlins396 ????
@@cain1830 that was supposed to say not 1
This is feminism as peddled in the 70s. And now. A traditional family is too uncool...has to be broken up.
Agreed!
Valerie Harper explained the divorce decision in interviews years later. She said that the writers complained that Rhoda's marriage limited their ability to think of story lines for her. They said they'd be forced to continue writing about Brenda and her dating struggles (something they used to do for Rhoda on MTM), and she said that she didn't mind. They finally put their foot down in season 3, and the separation (and subsequent divorce) became part of tv history. It ruined the show for most.
It was a terrible choice. We knew Rhoda's struggles to find a nice man and, for the first two seasons, that is who Joe was. Then they turned him into a short-tempered, unreasonable boob. It was not fair to any of the characters.
Had they not broken up, the series would have most likely crumbled and died (during or right after this season). It was stagnating horribly. I am one of the few members of "The Glad They Split Up Club". So, why am I glad? Look at Mary Richards. They never had her settle down, get a husband. She rarely had a steady beau. And the show thrived. They always had fun stories for her character. Then in "Rhoda" they should have kept Rhoda single, that was their big mistake. There are so many more comedy opportunities there.
It's amazing to me when I see all the backlash and dislike from viewers about this relationship ending. It feels like a big chunk of the audience who watched (or watches) it wanted a happily ever after-- even if meant a boring show with a boring couple. And that's cuckoo when you think about it. Life isn't always happy and smooth. And comedy, if we remember, is not about happiness and success; what's funny is loss and failure and unhappiness.
There are worse things, folks, than a single woman, or a single person. Maybe psychologically you needed Joe and Rhoda to stick together for reasons of your own. That's your beeswax/baggage. But for the series, it wouldn't have worked. This sitcom struggled enough without the great writers and cast of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show". The only good things in "Rhoda" besides Harper was Kavner as Brenda and Music as Carlton-- plus the occasional appearance of Nancy Walker. That's not a lot to keep a show going. Leaving Rhoda and Joe together would've been like buying the show's tomb stone.
Hey no spoiler alert?!?!? :)
@@eduardo_corrochio I can't imagine why anyone would be glad they split up. They could have created plenty of storylines with them still married. Eventually they would've had a baby. Look at I Love Lucy. They were married and had plenty of funny storylines. It made no sense to have them divorce after only two years. The show went downhill after that.
@@trawlins396 I respectfully differ. First, a show doesn't have to have a married couple to be good or funny. You seem to be under the impression that, in sitcoms, marriage = success and guaranteed comedy. Comedy can work in any situation if the writing is good and the characters are enjoyable and relatable. There have been quality series where the two leads couldn't stand each other much, as well as successful programs in which the couple is divorced from the get-go (and are either seething enemies or good buddies).
Moreover, babies often get in the way of a show rather than improve it: Little Ricky, Pebbles Flintstone, and so on. Aside from cuteness and a temporary ratings lift, what does an infant bring to the production? And the sitcom suddenly becomes "the baby show" ... until they hopefully/finally get back in their old groove and stop focusing on the kid.
To be fair, one baby that was an interesting addition to a sitcom was Joey on "All in the Family", because of the conflicts that rose between his grandpa Archie and his parents Mike and Gloria. That show didn't become a temporary "baby show"; instead it incorporated Joey into some of the stories once in a while rather than have him dominate things.
Back to "Rhoda": I believe the show would have failed whether the couple stayed married or broke apart. But I have no way of knowing if that would have happened had they remained together. Rhoda and Joe were dull for me, the type of characters (or straight men, to coin an old showbiz phrase) who need outstanding strong supporting cast members to do the real comedy. The series wasn't bad-- though it often came close, especially when they focused on a character like Nick the accordion playing jerk who talked like Fonzie. Overall "Rhoda" was a lackluster spinoff (and that's surprising since it branched off from such a sharp and hilarious and charming sitcom that was "The Mary Tyler Moore Show").
Sorry I went on at such length. :)
If you notice, David Groh is crying at the end of the separation scene when he says, "Take care of yourself, babe." Damn, that's such a raw and realistic scene. I'm still traumatized by it, almost 40 years later!
"Take care of yourself" is a jacka*ss line of hypocrisy from someone abandoning you and their vows. "I'm buggering off, but let me virtue signal like I care as I leave."
@@tamething1 my ex husband told me I was strong. Left me with 2 teenagers. So selfish!
@@gardenroom65 Lol not the same as a 40 year old sitcom. But what a Dick.
I read I think it was David Grohs own book that he personally took the powers that be writing him out of the series very hard.He went to them asking for a reconsideration but they said no.it just wasn't meant to be that Rhoda would stay married and the series fell apart shortly after his depart sure.
$47,000 or $61,000 for a house back then! and their rent at the time was $300!
In New York yet!
I love Rhoda and Joe. I love Rhoda's clothes. And their apartment. Rhoda and her bohemian style.
I always liked Valerie Harper, and I was saddened by her death. She was a cancer victim, but continued to act up until she couldn't work anymore. It really was a shame she passed away too soon.
Both of my parent's died from cancer, it's a terrible death. I'm never going forget the devastating effects of cancer. I wish, I could forget about it, but when I lost my Mom and Dad, it really was the most painful experience of my life.
Convo with mom & Rhoda.😭😭😭😭😭 Ty for these uploads! Loved this show when I was a kid!😘
Nancy Walker was nominated for an Emmy in the Outstanding Single Performance by a Supporting Actor in a Comedy or Drama Series category for her work on this episode.
She deserved it. The last scene between Nancy and Valerie is some of the most truthful, honest acting I've seen on camera. really beautiful stuff.
She’s remarkable right out of the gate. Much better actress than Valerie.
It would have been actress not actor.
Adam Sukenick -well deserved.
Nice!
Poor Rhoda. She deserved better than this creep. From the first time they met, he had an anger management problem. Now he has a midlife crisis in his 30's. Wish the series could have had a happy ending, but it should have never included Joe from the beginning.
You people are amazing.
Poor Rhoda ?
This isn't real life!
I don't remember the episode, but in one, Joe said he never wanted to get married again. Then he did.
@@Kat.Evangeline14
It isn't?
I remember how the bicentennial year was constantly promoted in ads for anything & everything. To hear it mentioned brought back memories of patriotic 1976.
This is the saddest episode of Rhoda ever filmed. I cried when Joe walked out on Rhoda. How could you walk out on Rhoda? The best looking woman in the world. Great acting between Val and David, they made it very real! The best scene was between Rhoda and Ida when Rhoda said "Ma stick around." Nancy Walker is a gem!
The thing was I wanted Rhoda to be more self confident she was beautiful and she always questioned it since MTM
Rest In Peace, Valerie.
I remember when this episode aired. I remember how I felt when he said to her he wasnt happy. I remember when she said "Oh Joe". I was so happy for them and then he left. I know it was only a show but it really bothered me at the time.
....too REAL for an escapist comedy; they gambled, and the show LOST, big time....
It's bad when a sitcom becomes more like a soap opera. I love "Friends" but the Rachel and Ross nonsense became so important in the show, it drove me batty. I wanted funny situations, not romantic entanglements and melodramas. Will they, won't they, they're on, they're off, etc, ad infinitum. Awful, and it's manipulative and cheap writing at it worst.
Shame the writers decided to give Rhoda a major relationship in the first place.
Daring move, but the wrong move. This show should have lasted as long or longer than MTM. Nancy Walker should not have left the show either. Especially when the writers decided to split them up. Just a shame for such a great character! We love you Valerie, RIP, kid!
"Rhoda" was mediocre compared to the series it spun off from. Like night and day. The MTM show sparkled, made us fall in love with the cast and with that sharp writing. But _this_ show overall comes off as a dismal wannabe. I'm surprised it lasted five seasons.
@@eduardo_corrochio Agree!
@@eduardo_corrochioMTM was not always sparkling. Especially in the last year. I liked season 3, 4 and 5 the best. While still good by season 6 MTM had aged dramatically from the previous year and then they hooked her up with Ted Bessell and it was all wrong.
@@eduardo_corrochioThe first couple of years of Rhoda were wonderful!❤
@@lorraineb.4698 Oh, you're right. I had forgotten how much the series slumped in goodness after season 4!
And I actually forgot that TMTMS lasted seven years; they should have stopped after four or five. After Rhoda's and Phyliss's departures, there were still some good episodes (like "Mary's Delinquent" in which she becomes a Big Sister to Mackenzie Philips) but it was nowhere near the fun and wit of the first three seasons. But such is sitcom history; you have some highs and also some lows.
I have the dvd sets of seasons 1-4. Can't remember if I just didn't want the other years or if the studio stopped releasing seasons. So many shows have had partial disc releases, it's ridiculous.
Marrying Rhoda off was a big mistake. Just like in present day with "The Big Bang Theory" -that show is now a huge bore since all the lead characters got married or into serious relationships.
As opposed to them being creepy with women.
I never heard of this show before now
Marriage is not boring. What's boring is endless rounds of dates that don't work out and insta-sex that fizzles. Happy marriage requires you to abandon that boring inability to grow up, and become a lot more complex and interesting.
Well the positive part of this season NO LA LA LAA LAAALA from the annoying children
I know right ? worst opening theme ever
That last scene with Nancy Walker and Valerie Harper always makes me cry, no matter how many times I watch it.
Same here.
I remember this episode very well. My heart broke for Rhoda. Her acting was superb. They should have never broken them up. Still affects me to this day and it's only a tv show.
I loved David and Valerie's relationship as Joe and Rhoda. The best acting chemistry and the most outstanding writing for them. Once in a lifetime writing👍 Rest in Peace Valerie Harper, Nancy Walker and whoever else that has passed on😔
They should have kept her single. At least until the final season. They had so much to work with - being single living in NYC in the 70s. Plus she was in the art world - put her in a magazine; a dept store; interior decorating. Still it last 4 1/2 seasons.
kgmaj I was feeling the same way. I've been watching all the MTM shows again, and then I came here. I wanted to see more of the Rhoda I fell in love with...I wanted her to stay single at least for a full season. The whole show, while delicious, seems to be all about their struggle
First of all, there was no way the writers could have known how long the show would last. Secondly, they had to differentiate the show from its parent show with Mary Tyler Moore. So having Rhoda marry in the second half of the first season was a way to do that.
If they kept her single it would of been the same as MTM
Groh never expressed an interest in leaving the show. It was the 'pencil pushers' at the network, along with some big shots behind the scene that felt the show should revert back to Rhoda being single. Bad mistake all over!
Agree!
Yep!
@@molliwilson5639 Where did he go from here?
I think the problem is that David Groh simply was NOT FUNNY. Ron Silver WAS funny... they should have introduced him, had them date, and have Rhoda eventually marry Gary.
@@brockreynolds870 You mostly hit the nail on the head when you say "He was not funny". I kind of agree. I always felt - even while watching as a teenager - that there was something missing in David Groh's performances. Joe seemed out of sync emotionally with Rhoda. And the actor David Groh seemed out of his depth when it came to performing with the extraordinarily talented Valerie Harper. So much so that I felt compelled to search and try to find real time reviews of Groh's performance as Joe. While I felt the part was miscast, I was unable to dig up very much until - just today - I found revealing quotes from one of the "Rhoda" producers, Alan Burns. His thoughts about David Groh performing as Joe follow. I agree with everything Alan said.
Allan Burns: "We made what I think was a bad choice in casting with Joe. He was a good actor but he didn’t have those comedy rhythms and chops he needed to keep up with Valerie. Valerie is very generous and a very nice lady. She’s pretty easy to work with. I think this was probably the first divorce in television history that was because they were comically incompatible. That was the reason for their divorce. We tried keeping him on for the whole process of the divorce instead of just cutting it off. I think it was sad to have her have to admit defeat. That the character wasn't going to work. I don't think Valerie took any joy in David Groh being let go. It hurt David deeply. It hurt her, and it hurt all of us, but she realized that it wasn't working."
SOURCE:
Funny You Should Ask: Oral Histories of Classic Sitcom Storytellers, by Scott Lewellen
How come no one ever says R.I.P. David Groh, Nancy Walker & Harold Gould,?
...or Lorenzo Music (aka Carlton the Doorman)?
I dont know about anyone else is because Nancy walker I always know she died a long time and I associate her with Macmillian and wife. David Groh I always forget that he died (my hunk of man ) and Harold Gould I really dont remember him except for time to time sitting on the couch
It's 1976 & Rhoda & Joe have negotiated a house purchase down from $61K to $47K in NYC...and they PASSED on it ! Worth BILLIONS today LOL.
That part made me so mad with Joe! Then he negotiated again at some unheard of conditions. They were denied the second time. “Well it wasn’t meant to be,” screw you Joe!!!
@@cmc1204why would he agree to buy a house when he wasn't sure he was going to stay married?
@@melindainglesby1922Exactly
I watched this when it originally aired. The writers decision to have Rhoda and Joe split ruined the show in my opinion. They never really did explain the reason.
happy4926 bad writers with no imagination! They were stupid created a storyline by getting her married, then couldn’t figure out creative storylines after her character got married? Never saying why Joe was so bent of leaving Rhoda (another woman, boredom, want to be single again ) something they could work on. Worst writers
I agree. Lazy writers, apparently unable to advance a storyline into the complexities of marriage, or the ways it works. That's been true of SO MANY tv shows.
Or, it might be even worse than lazy writing. It seems like there's been a decades-long agenda in tv to actively destroy marriage and family. Look at the Mary Tyler Moore Show as one of many examples. The repeated message on MTM was that marriages never work. Breakup after breakup, flirtations, real and fantasized infidelity, contempt, boredom... Enough to scare you off.
Also, series after series featuring single parents, or people over 30 still unmarried.
It's TIRESOME.
I hated this part of the show the spoil the show it was never the same
he wasn't happy.
I never liked Joe...too moody and miserable all the time
Lena Grasso yah, he seemed unpredictably irritable. But that's to be expected if u get married and realize you don't want to be married.
Yes, that's what I thought. And he had no sense of humor. But he was sexy and Rhoda really 'wanted to be marrid (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose).' ;)
I agree..he was always bitching about something
I absolutely agree. Joe stayed mad throughout his entire run on this show. Some say the divorce was sudden, but I think it was always on it's way to this. Joe is like many straight men. Being single was still viewd as being emasculating to many men back in the 70's to say nothing of their need to have a mother in their life at all times. Women never seemed to have that issue as much in spite of their role as housewife in many marriages. Women want a partner in life more than a daddy figure.
But a very nice butt!
While I can appreciate the problem the writers faced in coming up with stories, even as a 10 year old the split made no sense.
36 years later it still fails to convince.
While it may have revitalized the writing staff, season 3 saw Rhoda fall out of the ratings top 30.
I can see why.
Biggest mistake breaking up rhoda
And Joe.
Easily some of the best acting in any sitcom was in this episode. Valerie Harper at her absolute best!
Joe should have been honest with her in the first place that he didn’t want to get merrierd
Married not merried.
I think he told her when he offered to live together. Rhoda said she wanted to be married. If I remember it seemed like an ultimatum. That's when they got married.
@@nola06 Yes!!! She pressured him!!!!
She pressured him
@Suzanne Girard she set a standard and he told her he could live up to it. She was ready to let him go and he should have let her go if that wasn't what he wanted
I don’t know why the writers felt they needed to create a very depressing story line. The scene between Rhoda and her mom was very sweet.
The writers were having trouble coming up with stories for Rhoda. By having her get married so early in the series, they felt the character had lost the spark that made her popular. I agree the storyline was depressing and really killed the series in my opinion. It was never quite the same even when she was single again.
RIP Rhoda, Joe, Ida, Martin, Sally, and Gary.
And Carlton
Is Brenda now the voice of Marge Simpson?
They should have waited for Joe and Rhoda to get married until the middle of the 2nd season -- they married her off too soon. The show went downhill when Joe left - it also didn't help that CBS gave up on the show and moved it's timeslot.
I guess the network didnt have enough confidence in Valerie Harper. She had a big following from her time on the Mary Tyler Moore show that they didn't need a gimic for views. If I remember correctly the wedding drew big ratings.
I never watched this show until this past week. (Binging now) Awesome show! Love all the characters, RIP Valerie Harper 💔
I dont know what generation you are but I hope you enjoy it as much as those of us who saw it as it was released. Give Mary Tyler Moore a shot and then Phyllis. Lou Grant was a show but not like theirs. If you haven't seen them already. 😊 The 70s were great. The styles which are back somewhat. It was a nicer time .
You must see The Mary Tyler Moore series. The best TV there ever was.
Underneath her being ornery and fiesty, Ida had a good heart!!
Brilliant episode. The scene with Rhoda and Ida brought tears to my eyes.
I still love it to classic 70,s shows cool 😎
I've always thought Joe was a pain in the butt.
The late David Groh ("Joe") said that after the separation/divorce of the characters he was screamed at on the street and at restaurants etc for causing the end of the marriage.
I just viewed this again and have to ask the same question: why is it when things get rough or rocky, the quickest solution (to dissolve the relationship) seems the best? I don't know exactly when this trend began, but it sure hasn't ultimately helped a whole lot of folks for the better.
It was the philosophy of the Me Generation, which destroyed Western Civilization as we knew it.
The show's ratings were dropping after Rhoda got married. Seems viewers liked the single Rhoda better than the married Rhoda. That's why the breakup with Joe came out of the blue.
I first noticed it in the early 1970s, when miserable women in marital hell decided enough was enough and bolted. Sadly, the years between I do and I'm leaving became ever shorter. Now, immaturity and choosing poorly are the biggest reasons for bailing, from my viewpoint.
True, the first and best solution today is to just give in and break your vows or promise? Why make it if you. Reak it at the first opportunity or hurdle?
This episode definitely was a tear jerker. Why did Rhonda get married in the first place?
Joe had been married once before...
It's sad that this happened.
She gave him an ultimatum he wanted to live together and she wanted to get married
Who else is here in 2021???? Watching this show for the first time in my life. 💖Just got up to this episode...😔😢
Had a similar conversation with my Mom years ago,& she gave me the courage to make a fresh start. Great show!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@Athletic Amee No I'm watching in 2022
What crazy about watching these old episode of one my fav shows is I remember when I was younger I wanted to be rhoda but now that I'm grown and have a 20yr daughter I find that I'm Ida inside and out! ^_^
The day the show died! Really they were a GREAT COUPLE, there was so much to explore over 50 million people watched that wedding episode
Exactly. I LOVED them as a couple. I don't even understand WHY they made them divorce after only two yrs??? Joe was such a cutie!
Valerie Harper turned in a powerful performance in this episode. It was a bad move marrying Rhoda off immediately especially to an actor she was not compatible with. Valerie and David Groh was not compatible as husband and wife.This is the first show in history where we see a couple meet, date, get engaged, married, go through married life, separate and divorced. We saw Rhoda's life go in full circle.
How good to hear
He vv0 7ieyg&jujkoikjhhhhjhhhh grr
The first ham lb.🙂
That's not "full circle." That's an abruptly ending arc. Full circle is completing your marriage for life and passing the torch to your children.
The truth was that the Show began to lose it's steam, people didn't like Joe, in fact Joe appeared on episode 1. Some viewers just didn't like Rhoda being married. So, they didn't develope Joe's character beyond what he was, in fact they made him in to an asshole!
Making him an asshole is the part I didn't get. It wasn't fair to any of the characters.
Poor Brenda " Please don't make seven weeks sound like a long time to me "
Oh my gosh, I completely forgot the same guy who played Carlton also did the voice for Garfield.
This is Carlton your doorman.
And "Brenda" did the voice for Marge Simpson.
@@tamething1 Oh yeah, that's right she does.
Another part of my childhood died. RIP Valerie!
Used to watch this classic 70s sitcom.Still like it
Yay, a new opening that isn't so loud and obnoxious! lol
"La la la la la la la la la" you don't like that theme? Lol
The problem with the Rhoda show was Rhoda. The character was great on the MTM show. A brash, abrasive person who delivered punchlines. Mary was more or less the straight man (lady?). One who reacted to the antics of the others. More than that, she was a role model for viewers to emulate. The best sitcoms like van Dyke, MTM, MASH, Newhart, Barney Miller etc have a central character that is "the mensch" - a person of integrity that everyone admires. The producers and writers of Rhoda tried to fix the show by changing Rhoda's situation but they really needed to change Rhoda.
Note: I waited to post until I finished viewing all of the shows. There are many episodes worth seeing, but the series just suffers from the fatal flaw of the central character not being mature enough.
Often, it's a sensible rule that the sidekick should not become the main character in a new venue. Failure is usually guaranteed.
The MTM producers made another mistake with "Phyllis" in 1975. Cloris Leachman was excellent in the MTM show, but the character Phyllis Lindstrom was not spinoff material.
I felt there was a great deal of chemistry. At least in the beginning. I never understood why they split up. I think the whole marriage was rushed into. Joe wasn't ready to get married again and, Rhoda, in a way, pushed him. I hated their break-up. It did ruin the show.
I heard the writers wanted to write for a single person. David Groh said he got hate mail for a long time over Joe leaving Rhoda.
There it is!!!! Pushed him!
As much as they made fun of Ma...she was an amazing mom.
DAMN JOE!!! WHY DID YOU DO THAT TO RHODA???!!!!
Joe should had been honest with her in the first place
Rest in heaven gorgeous
Growing up as a young lad in England in the 1970`s, I was in love with Valerie Harper; but watching this now, I realise that I didn`t notice how adorable Julie Kavner was/is.
You mean Marge Simpson 😂🤗♥️
I never liked the Simpsons I think Julie was slumming even though her Marge character expanded her career.I still haven't seen one full episode of the simpsons and proud of it
It's kinda sad that they got divorced
I wish I had a mother like Ida when I was hurting.
absolutely I wish I had that too!!
what's interesting is if you really watch the episodes up to him leaving you can see him more & more feeling trapped... like he didn't want to get married... like the marriage was a strain on him
She pushes him, remember?
@@suzannegirard6556 right!!
And looking at houses made Joe feel more trapped.
Rhoda, here's the thing. Joe did not want to marry you so quickly. You pushed him into it. He told you this, but you didn't want to listen, because you wanted to be married so badly.
Or else, this is just the direction the writers wanted the show to take.
It hurt me to see Rhoda so hurt by her and Joe's separation. She truly loved Joe and made a huge effort to make her marriage work. Yes, she depended on her family a lot but they were her support network. The show showed how Rhoda evolved after returning to New York. Finally, the show was and is about Rhoda, the days in the life of Rhoda. With or without Joe, Brenda and her suitors, her mother and father, her and Joe's extended family members, and co-workers, the craziness of life could not have been more exemplified in this show. We also saw how the times changed which is mirrored in the relationships of Ida and Martin and Rhoda and Joe. This is also seen in Brenda who chooses to be an independent woman rather than a direct-to-marriage after graduating high school kind of woman. But, Rhoda grows from this despite her pain. It was touching to see how her mother wanted to be there for her to ease her pain and Rhoda is mature enough to accept it. Valerie was wonderful as Rhoda. Smart, sassy, supportive, and beautiful. A true New Yorker!!! There will never be another like you. RIP.
Ida looked really nice in her outfit for this episode.
Truly one of the saddest moments on TV for me ever. I was in school and growing up near where Rhoda’s parents were supposed to have lived in the Bronx. All of us in my grade school class could barely concentrate the day Rhoda got married. We followed each episode because “Rhoda” was ours. We could identify with it. I remember being so devastated watching this episode. Little did my tender heart know how “real life” all this was.
Once she and Joe split the show went down hill
I read that the reason they split up. Was because they ran out of story line. The other reason everybody thought Rhonda was better when she was free single.
@pamhoward5102 *RHODA! Not Rhonda.
So many of us can relate to the way Rhoda felt when he told her that he needed to be on his own.
Wow. This is my childhood memories and to make it more memorable,I am not getting along with my honey of 18 years.☹️Love Rhoda. RIP and thank you.
Joe never wanted to get married again. He was explicit about that. Rhoda completely ignored the red flags and pressured him into it. Why? Because she was playing out her mother's script. Say what you want, a lot (not all) of marriages start like that.
I actually liked the third season -- Joe's dematerialization was surreal, and Anne Meara's and Ron Silver's characters were hilarious. But the show became unwatchable in Season 4. It degenerated into a cheap sitcom.
Valerie Harper was a legent, big screen acting on a sitcom, you can feel everything she's going through!
Even though Joe & Rhoda were so wrong for each other the writers who thought them separating was a great idea were sadly underestimating the viewers ! Had they never separated, maybe had a kid, this show would have run 7-8 years & be in the top 10.
How could any man divorce Rhoda? The show got stale after they separated and finally divorced. The best way to see Rhoda is on MTM and the first 2 seasons of Rhoda!
Harper & Walker in the greatest Tear-inducing scene in sitcom history, IMO....Chekhovian in its scope. Nancy Walker saying “I love you Rhoda- don’t shut me out” the Best
Never thought Rhoda and Joe belonged together...they always felt forced...either bad writing or no chemistry between the characters. Really liked Valerie Harper though.
Ida to Rhoda "anything new"
Rhoda "no"
Ida "think"
OMG.......priceless, loved watching this show💗
O look
I first saw this when I was a little kid. It’s still hard for me to watch. So depressing.
When I think of Nancy Walker, a great actress, I always think of the old times like my baby shower.
That mans laughter in the background 9:28.... HAS TO BE the voice of the man that plays Carlton the door man😂🤣😂🤣😂😍🤩😍
I never once heard that bum say anything loving or reassuring or supportive to his wife. If she was ever scared or insecure about anything it was his job to do something about it... very hard to watch.
+Robert James I agree... he was a jack ass. I don't know why the writers decided that Rhoda would marry someone with his character. Rhoda was a very smart woman, didn't make sense.
I disagree. There were times Joe was a jerk but there wee times he was supportive. There were many times that Rhoda got on my last nerve. Just like in this episode, I'm 12 minutes in, she acted so immaturely. If someone is insecure that is something they have to work on themselves. It is at the person's core.
Well, Joe sure did turn into a jerk! But I have to disagree with you.
Joe was always telling Rhoda to stop being so insecure, sometimes very sweetly, other times, annoyed. But he always did
KatieLL i agree that it was not Joe's job to make her feel less insecure. Its only his place not to consciously add to her insecurity.
Telling someone 'Don't be so insecure' is not the same as being so attentive and loving that they grow into security because they are SECURELY LOVED. It was stupid of the writers to make Rhoda go backwards to her 'fat Rhoda' persona and get all insecure any time Joe was moody. That was bad writing.
But it was also bad writing to have Rhoda married to such a self-absorbed guy who was only about HIS 'feelings'.